View Full Version : Rush the capital with only 2 units?


SeismoGraf
Sep 13, 2010, 11:44 PM
In the Civilization V Live Gameplay with Greg, Berlin had a defensive strength of 8 at population 1, 2 and 3. I wonder what happens if such a city gets attacked by only 2 units:


Warrior + Scout
2x Warrior
Spearman + Scout
Spearman + Warrior
2x Spearman

Spearmen can be obtained very early, by getting an upgrade from ruins. If all units are far away, the city will have to rely solely on its defensive strength, seeing how expensive rush-buying was in the build they played (scout 140g, warrior 200g).

This is one of the first things I want to know, when the game comes out. Ideally have a script that runs through a couple hundred dice rolls and gives the odds, for taking the city at once or on a later turn.

Do you think any of above 2 units should give the attacker favorable odds? Do you like rushing in SP or MP? What is your opinion about losing the game respectively taking out an enemy, say in the first 30 turns?

krunsh
Sep 14, 2010, 12:17 AM
It's gonna be hard when you add the city bombard to the math. I don't think 2 unit can do it... You also have to take in consideration that even if the unit are stronger, they will most likely need more than one attack to finish off the city.

So at least 2 bombard, maybe 3... Plus the city defense.

SevenSpirits
Sep 14, 2010, 12:19 AM
Should be pretty easy to determine once we know the combat mechanics, since combat has such low variance compared to civ iv. My guess is you'd need at least 2 spears though - not super easy.

Louis XXIV
Sep 14, 2010, 12:23 AM
My guess is two spears, probably three. Keep in mind that one of the spears could be hit twice, which would all but cripple it. I'm sure it's possible, it's just far more difficult than in Civ4 (for obvious reasons).

chaotoroboto
Sep 14, 2010, 12:24 AM
I know if I start 4 out close to the Zulu o the Aztecs, I'll try to warrior rush the capital.

I wonder if an archer/spearman combo is where the money is?

bjbrains
Sep 14, 2010, 12:36 AM
Since cities have 20hp instead of 10... You're going to need more than two units.

krunsh
Sep 14, 2010, 12:38 AM
I did not know that!

parabellum9x19
Sep 14, 2010, 12:49 AM
from TheMystic's preview (VoodooExtreme) it seems 4 units is a bare minimum early game city rush. bare minimum = you are sure to take losses, but not assured the city. you may fail with four. Six units on an undefended 1 or 2 level city is a bit of a better bet (from what i've seen / read / inferred). terrain changes things too...attacking across a river, is the city on a hill, etc...

SevenSpirits
Sep 14, 2010, 12:58 AM
Since cities have 20hp instead of 10... You're going to need more than two units.

This is useful to know and also great news! Where'd you get the info?

SeismoGraf
Sep 14, 2010, 01:01 AM
Since cities have 20hp instead of 10... You're going to need more than two units.

Well, this changes everything. Thanks for the info! So in the very early game you can send out your units without worry of getting rushed. This feels so much better than it was in Civ4 with the undefended capital gamble.

bjbrains
Sep 14, 2010, 01:11 AM
You can see it in videos, and I believe it was confirmed in some preview.

Scramble
Sep 14, 2010, 01:15 AM
Don't forget that in that vid, the city was ungarrisoned. If your enemy spots your rush and garrisons something in the city, it's strength increases.

I believe that is how garrisoning works... correct me if I am wrong.

skepticon
Sep 14, 2010, 03:55 AM
One strat that might work is to build a barracks (how early can we build them?) and then save that promotion for an insta-heal the turn you want to attack. In other words, get in range, take your bombardment hit, heal up to full and then rush in for victory with full strength units.

SevenSpirits
Sep 14, 2010, 04:15 AM
Barracks needs bronze working. I bet (to rush an empty capital, which seems likely dumb) it would be more quick and effective to just get an extra unit.

ainwood
Sep 14, 2010, 04:21 AM
One strat that might work is to build a barracks (how early can we build them?) and then save that promotion for an insta-heal the turn you want to attack. In other words, get in range, take your bombardment hit, heal up to full and then rush in for victory with full strength units.

I wonder how early barbarians appear. They're normally quite good for a promotion or so (presume its capped like Civ4 though)

stealth_nsk
Sep 14, 2010, 04:49 AM
I wonder how early barbarians appear. They're normally quite good for a promotion or so (presume its capped like Civ4 though)

We've seen it on the video. Very early but they don't have enough force to conquer even ungarrisoned city for a long time.

CTH
Sep 14, 2010, 05:08 AM
Japan could be the best civ for this, always fight at full strength kind of takes the edge of the city bombing (unless the city totally destroys a unit)

SilentMage
Sep 14, 2010, 05:23 AM
Japan could be the best civ for this, always fight at full strength kind of takes the edge of the city bombing (unless the city totally destroys a unit)

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that it was stated in the demo video that only the Japanese Samurai can attack at full strength even when damaged. If all Japanese units can attack at full strength when damaged, that would be a really powerful unique ability...

SevenSpirits
Sep 14, 2010, 05:30 AM
Japan could be the best civ for this, always fight at full strength kind of takes the edge of the city bombing (unless the city totally destroys a unit)

At the start of the game, city bombard does like 2-3 damage to warriors. Definitely no total destruction.

Twahn
Sep 14, 2010, 06:55 AM
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that it was stated in the demo video that only the Japanese Samurai can attack at full strength even when damaged. If all Japanese units can attack at full strength when damaged, that would be a really powerful unique ability...

I'm afraid you are mistaken. This ability is not tied to Samurai, but is Japan's unique ability and applies to all their units.

Schuesseled
Sep 14, 2010, 07:47 AM
I wonder how early barbarians appear. They're normally quite good for a promotion or so (presume its capped like Civ4 though)

He discovered several barb encampments after only about 6 or 7 turns.