View Full Version : Please Read: Welcome to the Civ-V GOTM


AlanH
Sep 18, 2010, 03:41 PM
Welcome to the Civilization 5 Game of the Month forum

This forum is dedicated to the Game of the Month competition, where players compete against each other by playing the same save, and then compare the results. Some of you may already be familiar to the concept since the GOTM competition started 2001, beginning with Civilization 2 GOTM. Then came Civilization 3 GOTM and the Civ3 Conquests version, and Civ4 included the vanilla version, the warlords version and the BtS version. In this tradition, we're now running a Civ5 version.

The Game Of The Month is a friendly single-player competition. A starting save file is posted, and players download and play it. Each player then uploads their final save, hopefully a victory, and at the end of the month, the results are compared. Meanwhile, they post write-ups describing how their games progressed, the strategies they used, what they experienced and what they felt they did well. This is a great way for new players to ask questions and learn strategies to improve their games, and for veteran players to further improve their skills. Everyone is welcome to join, both those new to the game and those who think they're experts :D

How to join
You need a copy of Civ5 and a Civilization Fanatics Center membership account, which will enable you to write posts and upload your save. Once the competition is up-and-running, save files will be made available on or around the first of each month. Download it, play it, and be sure to submit it before the end of the month.

The rules
There are two simple rules: Once you play the save, you don't replay any moves. And you don't reveal any information to other players who have not played the save.

This means that you play within the spirit of the competition and abide to the unofficial honor system. As it is a friendly competition, we like to believe that there is no real incentive to cheat - but unfortunately, people do. Any persons found to be cheating will be disqualified and repeated cheating will lead to a permanent ban.

Cheating includes (and is not limited to):
Playing the game multiple times and submitting the best effort (or even playing to get knowledge of the map, then replaying, then starting the game again).
Using any sort of programs to edit the game or save files.
Altering the XML or using other mods that give you an unfair advantage.
Reloading an earlier save-file and replaying turns in a different way. The only time you may reload a save file is to start a new play session, and you must use the save file from the end of your previous session. Please contact us if your game crashes and you need to reload from an autosave.

Please note that some people believe that reloading (in particular) isn't serious cheating. We, however, consider it to be and have zero tolerance on it. Please also be aware that if you do it, we can detect it, and we will act on it. The reason for this intolerance is that the GOTM competition is based on the no-reload rule. It's a fundamental part of the challenge and the prerequisite for results comparison.

Also, if in doubt, ask. If you think you have found a new loop-hole or exploit, then we strongly suggest that you ask as to its legality before you use it. The aim of the competition is not to see who can exploit the rules, and as such, we reserve the right to disqualify submissions based on exploits that are discovered later.

How GOTM is run
The actual format will vary over time as we get feedback from the players. But the basic format is as follows:

Pre-game Discussion: A few days before the start of a new month, the starting screenshot is posted, along with the map script details, difficulty etc. This allows people to discuss strategies based on the initial information.
Game release: On or around the first of the month, the game is released. At this point, people are allowed to download and play it, but once they've started playing it, they must not post any info on it, apart from the:
Spoiler Threads: A number of spoiler threads are normally opened in which people discuss what happened in their games - strategies, other civs, resources, game play and the like. The spoilers are spread to cover different periods of the game. The reason for this is so that people can contribute throughout the month - people who have completed the early part of the game can still contribute without having to worry that in reading the thread they'll see where the modern-age resources are (for example). The first spoiler is normally opened a few days after game is released. Please post all contributions concerning active games only in spoiler threads. Please do not post anything elsewhere on the site during the month the game is active.
Results: We aim to have the results posted within 7-10 days following the completion of the game (the end of the month).

What we're playing for
Generally, you are playing for your own enjoyment, and perhaps to improve your game. Some players find entertainment in performing better than their competitors and we will offer medals/awards to those worthy of special recognition.

We also maintain a 'global ranking'. This is effectively a ranking over a number of games, with a decay figure so that your most recent games count for more - its similar to rankings in tennis or golf.

Excellent, but when does this all start?
Well, we're not yet set for the actual competition. First we need to develop a security mod that detects if the game has been modified. Hopefully we can reuse the mod developed for the Hall of Fame competition. Then we need to learn how to extract the information from the saves, and update the current submission system to support Civ5. With a bit of luck and lots of hard work, we could start before Christmas (this year), but we'll return with a target date once we know the amount of work that needs to be done. There are still a lot of uncertainties. Meanwhile, the Civ4 GOTM will continue (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=165). However, since we're all eager to play Civ5, we're happy to announce:

The Civ5 GOTM Training Series
Once the game is released (and the staff has learned the basic routines), we will start hosting training games. This training series will run until we have a security mod (a variant of HOF/BUFFY) that enables us to run the proper competition. The purpose is for Civ5-fanatics to try out the new features, share experiences, and informally compare games in a friendly environment based on the no-reload concept. The staff will propose objectives related to the new features to allow a more focused discussion, and the games will be provided twice a month.

Once the submission website and the security mod are in place, we will start the actual competition. The award system will be designed once we understand the scoring mechanics of the game, and the players will have an important role in this process. We will use the experience from the training series to devise an award system that is fair and encourages players to perform at their best. We will also decide later if we will use adventurer/challenger saves, or if there are other ways to allow for a variety of playing skills.

bluexmas
Sep 20, 2010, 05:56 PM
I just discovered this site looking for info on CIV V (been playing religiously since CIV II) and am so excited to find others out there dedicated to games where you don't just re-do something once your majestic civilization crashes and burns. I can't claim to be a world-beating player, but I can't wait until the GOTM gets started so I can learn from all y'all. Hurry up, tomorrow!

Thrallia
Sep 20, 2010, 07:13 PM
welcome to the GOTM! That's actually how I found this site, way back when Civ IV was getting started.

remconius
Sep 22, 2010, 04:06 AM
Sounds like fun!

I will be looking for the GOTMs and SGOTMs!

Balkor
Sep 22, 2010, 07:10 AM
Im a little unsure about one of the rules, Are we allowed to post stories of our growing civilization or not? You how some people just playing a normal game (Oftenly called AAR (after action report)) they will document everything that happens throughout their game

Thrallia
Sep 22, 2010, 08:14 AM
Im a little unsure about one of the rules, Are we allowed to post stories of our growing civilization or not? You how some people just playing a normal game (Oftenly called AAR (after action report)) they will document everything that happens throughout their game

Welcome to the GOTM! You are allowed to post stories, AARs, or whatever you want to share, in the designated spoiler threads while the game is active. This allows you to share with others how your game is unfolding or your civilization is growing without worrying about spoiling the competition through people clicking on your thread before they've reached a point it will not spoil their games.

Often there will be limits as to what type of information can be shared in a spoiler thread(ie. no posting where modern resources are, no posting events after X date in the game), simply to attempt to prevent less advanced players from gaining an unfair advantage from reading a thread that they are otherwise entitled to read and share in.

Balkor
Sep 22, 2010, 09:22 AM
Alright that makes sense ^^ Not been around the forums all too long however with Civ 5 coming along im thinking of having a go with GOTM and the HOF, its competitions like this (Even if it is friendly) That really help me learn, similar to how in Civ that times of war is when my technology and military strength get much better than usual.

Erkon
Sep 22, 2010, 11:42 AM
Balkor - we will clarify the posting rules in the first Training Series game. The Training Series will have a somewhat relaxed posting guide, since these will not be competitive games as such, meaning that players may get a glance of what to expect in the rest of the game. Later on, when the competition starts, we'll constrain the posting and reading restrictions to maintain the competitive part of the game.

The staff will open threads where players posts their stories, questions, advice, and strategies.

We will also arrange for a proper guideline and FAQ regarding Civilization V - Game of the Month competition.

General_CFR
Sep 24, 2010, 10:58 AM
Just a thought: like BOTM, WOTM, COTM, etc. Civ-V GOTM could be called VOTM :)

Just now I only have a demo, but as soon as I buy a full version, I'll definitely join.

By the way, what if start one testing competition in demo version? Its objective can be, for example, to get the highest score after 100 turns.

steel.stiletto
Sep 29, 2010, 06:46 AM
Any idea if there are plans to do Succession games like there are for Civ IV?

leif erikson
Sep 29, 2010, 08:13 AM
Any idea if there are plans to do Succession games like there are for Civ IV?
Yes, we are planning for them, once we have a HoF type Mod and a submission system in place. :)

AlanH
Sep 29, 2010, 11:17 AM
A SGOTM typically lasts three or four months. In view of the auto-update Steam system, and the fact that you can only have one Civ5 version on your hard disk at a time (as far as I know), I don't think we want to start one of those in Civ5 until there is some reasonable stability in the software. Otherwise we would have team members trying to exchange files played with different versions; people trying to play monthly GOTMs in new versions and unable to play SGOTMs in older versions ....

My current feeling is that stability is not going to happen for a month or three. But maybe I'm a pessimist.

DaviddesJ
Sep 29, 2010, 11:06 PM
A SGOTM typically lasts three or four months. In view of the auto-update Steam system, and the fact that you can only have one Civ5 version on your hard disk at a time (as far as I know), I don't think we want to start one of those in Civ5 until there is some reasonable stability in the software. Otherwise we would have team members trying to exchange files played with different versions; people trying to play monthly GOTMs in new versions and unable to play SGOTMs in older versions .....

Because of autoupdate, the game has to let you load old saves in the new version. So I don't see a problem. If vie gotten the new version, then everyone on my team should have too.

Ribannah
Sep 30, 2010, 04:35 AM
The problem arrives when different teams (or individuals in the normal 5OTM, for that matter) are playing the same game with different versions.

AlanH
Sep 30, 2010, 05:51 AM
Because of autoupdate, the game has to let you load old saves in the new version. So I don't see a problem. If vie gotten the new version, then everyone on my team should have too.
I doubt if Firaxis can guarantee that old saves will always run in new versions ... or that old HoF Mods will run in new versions.

It depends who's playing online. And if major game play changes are released they will affect different teams or individual players in different ways depending on where they are in the game.

DaviddesJ
Sep 30, 2010, 08:20 AM
The problem arrives when different teams (or individuals in the normal 5OTM, for that matter) are playing the same game with different versions.

That's not a problem unless you care. At some point, you have to accept this is the way it is, and it's just a game, IMO, of course.

Erkon
Sep 30, 2010, 10:55 AM
One thing is for sure: we will have to adopt both the GOTM and the SGOTM competition due to Steam and how updates are handled. Unless there is a way to have multiple versions active at the same time, then I think we will have to accept patches/updates while a competition is running (based on the assumption that a security mod can cope with that). Certain teams/players will be lucky and have an advantage, while others will be at a disadvantage. As long as the changes are not too drastic, then the impact could perhaps be acceptable. If players find this to be a real concern, then we can reduce the risk with checkpoints for SGOTM (e.g. reach 1 AD within a month). I'm not sure though that this will be necessary. (This post is my own personal reflection, not the opinion of all staff)

leif erikson
Sep 30, 2010, 01:11 PM
As Erkon says, we shall have to see how it goes. We may have to have everyone turn off auto updates, providing that really works, while a game is running. This will probably create problems with SGOTM's that run over several months. :hmm:

da_Vinci
Sep 30, 2010, 09:46 PM
How about creating a thread (or even a subforum, if the list is too long :lol:) devoted to fixes, workarounds, and general troubleshooting in Civ 5 and Steam. Not one that has long discussions of them, but one with effective solutions. Kind of an executive summary of what works from the unfortunately huge bug forum. So our VOTMers can find that stuff quickly and easily.

For example one post (or thread) could be "Screenshot resources". Part 1 would be "to read the files the game makes, infranview and gimp do this pretty simply (add others known to work). Part 2 would be "to take and manage shots with a different program outside of Civ, the following work ... (list from someone who knows)

Other topics could include "Getting Saves to Work" and "Viewing Your Replays" (if we ever get a solution to that). Hopefully that illustrates the idea.

dV

socratease
Apr 08, 2011, 10:12 PM
Hi, I am wondering if it's possible to download a winning result file and, more importantly, to be able to replay it? I suck at the game and I am amazed how good you folks here are, I'd like to watch and learn from the masters!

leif erikson
Apr 08, 2011, 10:39 PM
Yes, and no.

The games prior to TSG8 were all attached in player posts in the After Action Report threads. I'm not sure they will run under the current patch, but it may be worth a try. I'm not sure if saves uploaded to the submission system can be made available, I'll have to leave that for Alan to answer. :dunno:

You could browse back through the Game in Progress and After Action threads to see what players posted and their discussions. These are more valuable than a victory save imho as they explain, in many cases, what was done to achieve the result, not just showing the result. You may also ask questions and many layers will answer, if they can remember that far back.

Participation in the various threads, with the give and take of the various players, will help you as we move into the future. We will continue to rotate victory condition and playable civ for you to use various traits as well as unique units and buildings.

AlanH
Apr 09, 2011, 04:52 AM
The tables of results include download links to the saved games in the Base Score column.

I don't think there's any way currently to view a replay of a game. It's on my to-do list, but without some clues from Firaxis about the save file format, it's a non-trivial task. I *might* make it possible to view a text-only event log for each game.

MouseyPounds
Apr 11, 2011, 02:19 AM
I don't think there's any way currently to view a replay of a game. It's on my to-do list, but without some clues from Firaxis about the save file format, it's a non-trivial task. I *might* make it possible to view a text-only event log for each game.
Civ5 does actually create separate replay files when you finish a game. The good news is that there are 3rd-party tools which will read these files and turn them into a viewable replay; the bad news is that the information stored in the replays is incomplete so it's only partially useful. All the replay viewers have pinned threads in the Strategy and Tips forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=391).

AlanH
Apr 11, 2011, 03:57 AM
We don't ask players to upload the replay file. A few do attach them to their posts.

DaveMcW
Jun 27, 2011, 09:27 PM
I think it's very ironic that the most important thread for newbies to read is buried under 8 other stickies.

leif erikson
Jun 27, 2011, 09:32 PM
We do link to it in each announcement thread. :)

CubeTheory
Aug 08, 2011, 10:23 AM
MmMmMmMm, so my roommate played 17 on my computer. Am I gonna get flagged for reloading now if I play it fresh on the same machine? 'Cause that would kind of suck.

AlanH
Aug 08, 2011, 11:33 AM
Yes, I'm afraid so. If the game is played twice on the same machine, we can't tell whether the second attempt was played independently. It may have been played by the same person, or with knowledge gained from the first player's game.

CubeTheory
Aug 08, 2011, 11:38 AM
Sigh, well that's disappointing. I guess I'm not playing GotM anymore. :sad:

Monthar
Aug 08, 2011, 03:40 PM
Or don't let your roommate play the GotM on your computer.

Ribannah
Aug 11, 2011, 03:28 AM
You can still play, and post in the spoiler threads, just not submit. I have the same situation of two people (sometimes three, even) playing the game on one computer.

AlanH
Aug 11, 2011, 03:43 AM
Yes, I'm afraid so. If the game is played twice on the same machine, we can't tell whether the second attempt was played independently. It may have been played by the same person, or with knowledge gained from the first player's game.

I should have said that this will only apply if and when we run a proper competition. Currently, we are running these training games completely on an honour basis, as we have no mod, and therefore no way to monitor playing activity.

AlanH
Aug 11, 2011, 03:45 AM
The tables of results include download links to the saved games in the Base Score column.

I don't think there's any way currently to view a replay of a game. It's on my to-do list, but without some clues from Firaxis about the save file format, it's a non-trivial task. I *might* make it possible to view a text-only event log for each game.

[UPDATE]
The Results tables now include a link to allow you to see the text event log for any submission.

I also posted a trial version of a GOTM Replay facility a little while ago. See this thread

oldfool1
Aug 11, 2011, 09:31 PM
From someone who plays a lot of games but doesnt know much about how computer work. Is there a thread for the simple mechanics opening downloaded GOM? I download the start from this site, then have to open it. How? The civ 5 icon on my desktop is just a shortcut to Steam. If I try to open it with Steam - nothing happens. Went on line and opened downloaded "back up files" from Steam site but none of them seem to open the start. Where is the file/how do I obtain the file to open GOM. Thanks

leif erikson
Aug 11, 2011, 10:31 PM
Welcome to CivFanatics and GoTM. :wavey:

When you click on the link to the save in the thread, you should select where you save it. You should find a folder in your "My Documents" folder named "My Games". Within MY Game, the location you are looking for is:
D:\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\Saves\single\

My "My Documents" folder is on my D:\ drive, yours may be on your C:\.

Once the save game file is saved in this folder, you start Civ5 and click on Single Player and then Load Game. You should find the save file listed, click on it and load the game. You should be able to play it now.

Hope this helped. Good Luck. :)

AlanH
Aug 12, 2011, 03:59 AM
When you click on the link to the save in the thread, you should select where you save it. You should find a folder in your "My Documents" folder named "My Games". Within MY Game, the location you are looking for is:
D:\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\Saves\single\


It depends on your web browser, but you may need to right click the link to the save and select something like "Download linked file", or "Save target as ..." to get the Save As ... screen.

Ribannah
Aug 13, 2011, 03:33 AM
In contrast to earlier Civilization editions, clicking on a savefile will start Civ5, but not actually load anything. You can only load a save from inside Civ5.

Becomedeath
Aug 18, 2011, 10:07 AM
Noob question.

Was going to play my first GOTM today, game 18, however, I distinctly remember a page that described a multiple save rule.

Was I just dreaming? Has it changed? If it hasn't could someone link it to be as I can't find it anywhere?

Do you just have to upload the final save using the Civ 5 save form?

Tad confused. :confused::confused::confused:

leif erikson
Aug 18, 2011, 10:21 AM
The basic rules are at the beginning of this thread, first post.

The Announcement page of each game also provides info on rules, but also links to this thread.

You may make intermediate saves as you play. We only ask that you do not reload from a previous save and replay some parts, or all, of the game. That would provide prior map knowledge and give and unfair advantage.

The only submission you need make is the final save after your victory or defeat, unless you lose by conquest, then the turn before your defeat. The autosave interval should be set to 1, this can be done in the option menu in game.

Hope I answered your questions. Good Luck. :)

Becomedeath
Aug 18, 2011, 10:25 AM
Absolutely perfect, thanks for the quick response...

Understand the rules well enough, I was just convinced that there was a requirement for multiple saves.

Looking forward to the challenge. :)

Thanks again.

Arnold_T
Aug 18, 2011, 01:53 PM
Hi Becomedeath,
You're probably mixing up the GOTM submission reqs and the HOF submission reqs. HOF submission requires four save files.

NZL
Dec 13, 2011, 07:36 AM
Hi guys, if I try to open the CIV5 25th GOTM save file to start playing, I get some "runtime error".
Any idea what it can be?
I can't be more specific at the time cause i'm at work and guess what: We're not allowed to play Civ5 here :)

I'm patched to 383, have all the DLCs installed and all Mods disabled..

Wyrda Edocsil
Jul 24, 2012, 11:25 AM
If my game crashes and I have to load autosave, will it appear as if I had replayed a turn? I'm asking because this is a frequent occurrence with me, and I don't want to have my results discarded because of it.

leif erikson
Jul 24, 2012, 12:37 PM
We do not disqualify games for crashes. When one happens, all that you need to do is note the game date that it occurs and let me know via Private Message (PM), so that when we collate the results, we can take that into account.

You should have your autosave interval set to 1 turn.

Wyrda Edocsil
Jul 24, 2012, 08:43 PM
Thank you for the information, and for the quick response.

Monthar
Aug 26, 2012, 09:49 PM
I think someone brought this up before, however, since we are running GotM using G&K I think this should be added to the rules.

In G&K you have to complete the Rationalism tree to get the 2 free techs. However, once you've done so, if you use your next policy to switch to the Piety tree, you'll go into anarchy for 1 turn. On the following turn you can switch back to Rationalism and gain another 2 free techs immediately and have 1 more turn of anarchy. So, if you beeline to the Renaissance while producing as little culture as possible you can then max out your CPT and you'll complete the Rationalism tree fairly quickly, open Piety and start ripping through the tech tree while maintaining very low BPT and not spending any cash on RA's.

During anarchy you don't collect any production, science or gold. However, you do still collect GA happiness, culture, faith and great people points. So you could keep alternating between Piety and Rationalism gaining 2 free techs every other turn until you pop a golden age.

To sum up, I believe this exploit would be far worse than the Oxford University exploit that's already banned.

leif erikson
Aug 26, 2012, 09:57 PM
Thanks for bringing this our attention. You are right, it will be a banned exploit.

Monthar
Aug 26, 2012, 09:59 PM
You're welcome.

vra379971
Aug 26, 2012, 11:11 PM
I think someone brought this up before, however, since we are running GotM using G&K I think this should be added to the rules.

In G&K you have to complete the Rationalism tree to get the 2 free techs. However, once you've done so, if you use your next policy to switch to the Piety tree, you'll go into anarchy for 1 turn. On the following turn you can switch back to Rationalism and gain another 2 free techs immediately and have 1 more turn of anarchy. So, if you beeline to the Renaissance while producing as little culture as possible you can then max out your CPT and you'll complete the Rationalism tree fairly quickly, open Piety and start ripping through the tech tree while maintaining very low BPT and not spending any cash on RA's.

During anarchy you don't collect any production, science or gold. However, you do still collect GA happiness, culture, faith and great people points. So you could keep alternating between Piety and Rationalism gaining 2 free techs every other turn until you pop a golden age.

To sum up, I believe this exploit would be far worse than the Oxford University exploit that's already banned.

How does this exploit even exist?!

Monthar
Aug 26, 2012, 11:15 PM
Inadequate testing when they changed the policies for G&K?

Hammer Rabbi
Aug 26, 2012, 11:57 PM
will this be something that can be seen in game files? recognized on submissions?

Monthar
Aug 27, 2012, 01:14 AM
When you load the saved game if you see this in the social policies, that's one clue they may have used the exploit. Notice how the Rationalism tree is completed and Piety tree opener no longer says "Adopt" and the background is brighter than the Honor and Freedom trees?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=329907&stc=1&d=1346047572
If you see that, check the notification log for more than one turn where it says, "You have completed Rationalism! Choose a free technology ..." As you can see here, I got those on turn 163 and 165 during my testing of this.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=329908&stc=1&d=1346047572

I don't know how these things would look to the saved game parser, but perhaps with knowing what to look for ya'll can teach the parser to find them.

leif erikson
Aug 27, 2012, 07:24 AM
will this be something that can be seen in game files? recognized on submissions?


I don't know how these things would look to the saved game parser, but perhaps with knowing what to look for ya'll can teach the parser to find them.
We're looking into this in staff.

leif erikson
Sep 04, 2012, 08:17 PM
In future, please use only the spoiler threads to discuss your game during the time the game is active. Please do not post anything elsewhere on the site until the results for a game are published.

:thanx:

Monthar
Sep 13, 2012, 02:15 AM
In the HoF forums part of the rules states..

Examples of tactics used:
Repeatedly selling a resource (luxury, strategic, etc.) and pillaging or allowing Barbarians or other civs to pillage the resource or trade route to break the deal.
Repeatedly selling a resource (luxury, strategic, etc.) and declaring war or otherwise bringing about a war that breaks the deal. (i.e. a phony war just to break the deal.)
Repeatedly selling Gold per Turn (GPT) and declaring war or otherwise bringing about a war that breaks the deal. (i.e. a phony war just to break the deal.)
Repeatedly selling Cities and declaring war or otherwise bringing about a war so you can take them back. (i.e. low risk, low cost war just retrieve the cities for resale to another civ.)


Why aren't these included in the GotM rules?

leif erikson
Sep 13, 2012, 06:05 AM
We have had this discussion one time already. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=445900) Think this is the conclusion. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11298515&postcount=54)

We have had some discussion in staff and, I'm sure, will continue to do so. Much depends upon whether we change from TSG to GOTM and when that happens? Civ5 is still really not mature enough for competition.

Hammer Rabbi
Sep 13, 2012, 11:19 AM
Why aren't these included in the GotM rules?

to save some the time of clicking and reading the forum links i'll try to summarize.

mostly because they arent enforceable and wont be until the dll is released. the honor system is what gotm operates on and as such cant be REALLY competitive so it remains a training series.

Monthar
Sep 13, 2012, 10:52 PM
That second link states
The bottom line is that we are in sync with the current HoF rules. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=420542)

However, without a mod, this really is not a competition as nothing is enforceable. We describe what we are trying to achieve in the TSG series of games in this thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=380189)

Hopefully, as Civ5 matures, we can do a better job of defining rules and hosting a "real" competition.

edit - Also thought I should add that we should be pushing the software some to see if we can discover where there are exploits. When we create the mod, we can often correct exploits to some degree. No mod though until the .dll file contents are released.

To me that reads as we are following all the HoF rules. However, since none of it can be enforced without a mod, those who exploit the AI the best will always be on top, while those of us who actually try to follow the rules will never be on top.

Gamewizard
Sep 14, 2012, 10:39 AM
You could just play for fun and ignore the results of those who play to make a mockery of the game. There are no real awards or anything, so does it really matter?

Ribannah
Sep 14, 2012, 12:03 PM
As far as I know, this is about one participant. Everybody else seems to follow the HOF-rules, so the fact that they can't be enforced doesn't matter all that much.

Arnold_T
Sep 14, 2012, 12:19 PM
You really just have to play for fun. Even if the HoF rules could be enforced with a HoF mod, there would still be the problem of people getting map-knowledge before playing (which AFAIK is still a problem with the pre-Civ5 GOTMs which have a HoF mod).

leif erikson
Sep 14, 2012, 04:21 PM
To me that reads as we are following all the HoF rules. However, since none of it can be enforced without a mod, those who exploit the AI the best will always be on top, while those of us who actually try to follow the rules will never be on top.
What it says to me is that the software is not yet ready to hold proper competitions. Something we have said a few times. :)

Ribannah
Sep 14, 2012, 04:55 PM
It may be me, but I have the impression that we are already holding a proper competition. :)

pontias
Sep 14, 2012, 06:03 PM
That second link states


To me that reads as we are following all the HoF rules. However, since none of it can be enforced without a mod, those who exploit the AI the best will always be on top, while those of us who actually try to follow the rules will never be on top.

I'm not sure me or you will ever be on the top no matter what the rules are so I wouldnt worry too much on that front :D (no offense intended!!)


thanks for all your effort leif - I for one enjoy playing the games and also like seeing what other people get up to.
yes, some of the stuff push the morality a bit and I don't do them myself, but I've learned a hell of a lot more from those players than from anyone else.

apocalypse105
Nov 15, 2012, 05:28 PM
BIGGEST EXPLOIT EVER

Why are ancient ruins turned on? these things are really random and can sometimes give you a free tech which is game breaking and will cause someone to get a higher score .. just by luck?

Is it just me or should this been disabled i am now playing TSG 48 And saw ancient ruins are on.

Hammer Rabbi
Nov 15, 2012, 05:34 PM
BIGGEST EXPLOIT EVER

Why are ancient ruins turned on? these things are really random and can sometimes give you a free tech which is game breaking and will cause someone to get a higher score .. just by luck?

Is it just me or should this been disabled i am now playing TSG 48 And saw ancient ruins are on.

This is still The Training Series so it isnt an official competition ... yet. And ruins have a been a part of GotM for a long time. My last effort without ruins (GotM46) was unintentional and a part of my game creation learning curve.

Whether we go forward with them after this becomes a proper competition now that the DLL has been released is up for debate, but we are not identical to the Hall of Fame series. As far as I know not all of the rules will be exactly the same between the two.

leif erikson
Nov 15, 2012, 08:41 PM
BIGGEST EXPLOIT EVER

Why are ancient ruins turned on? these things are really random and can sometimes give you a free tech which is game breaking and will cause someone to get a higher score .. just by luck?

Is it just me or should this been disabled i am now playing TSG 48 And saw ancient ruins are on.
Ancient Ruins, Goody Huts or whatever you wish to call them have been a controversy in GOTM for a long time. Some people like them and others do not. For now at least, the decision has been to keep them in the game.

I would hardly call them the biggest exploit ever, however, I understand your issue.

thio
Mar 04, 2013, 03:10 AM
So.. there won't be any GOTMs for vanilla anymore?

edit:
Nevermind - just saw that the gold edition upgrade is really cheap at the moment. I'll just buy that and hope its the right one.

Devell
Jun 16, 2013, 07:00 AM
I'm new to these and have just downloaded all 62 games. Will I still be able to play them with G+K? Or will I have to start where the G+K saves start? Incidentally which save is the first G+K save?

Thanks.

Browd
Jun 16, 2013, 07:15 AM
If you load a vanilla GOTM, G&K should be auto-disabled and you'll be playing the vanilla game.

IIRC, the Celts science game (GOTM 48 or 49?) was the first G&K game.

leif erikson
Jun 16, 2013, 07:26 AM
Welcome to GOTM.

Thanks, I think Browd is correct :thanx:, you should be able to play the older ones.

The first G&K game is TSG40, Celts. Hope you enjoy them and good luck. :thumbsup:

Devell
Jun 16, 2013, 08:32 AM
Thank you very much guys. I'm well exited about playing through these :)

OBRkenobi
Sep 07, 2014, 05:40 PM
do all of the games in this series require the gods and kings expansion pack?
edit:nevermind i didnt read the previous comment