I don't know what the LotR series will hold for Civ5. In Civ3, this series was one of the more challenging and daring series. For Civ4, well, I think we had a number of interesting games, but I didn't get into Civ4 nearly like I did Civ3. I still had some fun, though. Civ5 promises to be different again. I know little of it (been trying to avoid spoilers), except that it's coming out VERY soon.

Random info -- the LotR name is in honor of _The Lord of the Rings_ -- my favorite series of books. But the games themselves have little or nothing to do with the Tolkein books, instead just being games of Civ. I play a lot of variants and a lot of semi-wacky games. If that's your cup of tea, this is a good place. If not, well, you're still highly invited to try some things out occasionally!

All games in the LotR series will be hosted by me, Arathorn. I generally run 0-2 games at a time. Anyone is welcome to sign up. Most games fill first come, first served, but it all depends on the game (the first LotR Civ5 game, for example, will be different in that regard). Please use this thread for sign-ups and/or rules questions before the game(s) begin.

General rules -- maximal ethics in play at all times. Do the right thing at the right time. Have fun. Do your best. Be courteous. Etc. etc. etc. We play whatever start we get nearly every time, even if it looks like a really bad start. Only if the variant assumes something (like early contact/fighting) will I restart. Isolated? Crunched? Bad land? We deal with it. I also highly encourage discussions and discourse and planning and thoughts and justifications and LONG reports, preferably with semi-significant detail. I also run a 24/72 system (instead of most people's 24/48) -- that is, 24 hours to claim, 72 to play and report. As long as you're there and communicating, I'm quite fine if it takes a little longer to play and report.

The first Civ5 game will be something very similar to this....

LotR28 -- Random Rollicking for Returning Refugees
Version: Civ5 out-of-the-box
Civ: Random
Difficulty: One level above the "middle"/"even" level
Win condition: Anything goes
Variant(s): NONE
Participants: For the first LotR Civ5 game, priority seating will be given based on the number of previous LotR games played in. Sign-up time will break ties. YOU MUST HAVE THE GAME IN HAND BEFORE SIGNING UP!!! Also, no beta-testers allowed. This rule is on the honor system, but all of us in LotR28 should be playing the game with very few preconceptions (just what we've gained from games on our own). Sign-ups will close September 25th at 11:59 p.m. CDT, if I have enough signed-up at that point. Sign-ups begin now, in any of the LotR threads. All other Civ5 games must be signed up for in the Civ5 thread (once it exists).
Start Date: September 26
Sign ups so far: None

Hope to see everybody around!
Arathorn

LotR1 – Daring Deity
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=17438
Version: Vanilla 1.17
Civ: Egypt
Difficulty: Deity
Variant: None
Roster: Arathorn, Sirian, Toecheese3, Jaffa Tamarin, Charis
Dates: February 28, 2002 - March 20, 2002
Result: Diplomatic win in 1070 AD
Score: 7189
Reasons to read: First deity SG at CFC, see weed by some later greater players, highest scoring LotR game to date, back in the screaming fast tech days

LotR2 – Zealous Zulus
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=19001
Version: Vanilla 1.17 - 1.21
Civ: Zulu
Difficulty: Monarch
Variant: Always war
Roster: Arathorn, Jester, Sirian, cpp1, Toecheese3
Dates: March 25, 2002 – June 11, 2002
Result: Domination win in 1840 AD
Score: ???
Reasons to read: Very first always war game (starting a fun variant), long LONG periods of no front change, almost a 20K culture victory

LotR3 – Emperor Training
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=21176
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=21474
Version: Vanilla 1.21 – 1.29
Civ: Iroquois
Difficulty: Emperor
Variant: Training
Roster: Arathorn, Architect, Brian J, charliehoke, LKendter, D9Phoenix, JMB, JollyRoger
Dates: April 25, 2002 – July 25, 2002
Result: Abandoned in 250 AD in a solid position
Score: N/A
Reasons to read: Few – some discussions of city specialization, micromanagement, and scouting practices

LotR4 – 5CC Conquest (5CCC)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=26358
Version: Vanilla 1.21 – 1.29
Civ: Japan
Difficulty: Monarch
Variant: 5CCC
Roster: Arathorn, meldor, Jaffa Tamarin, T-hawk
Dates: July 2, 2002 – September 19, 2002
Result: Conquest win in 1645 AD
Score: 2460
Reasons to read: An early 5CCC, some fun city names

LotR5 – Tactless Darius
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=49590
Version: PTW 1.21
Civ: Persia
Difficulty: Deity
Variant: Tactless – no initiating diplomacy or bargaining
Roster: Arathorn, Gothmog, Charis, JMB, T-hawk
Dates: April 3, 2003 – May 22, 2003
Result: Cultural loss in 1824 AD
Score: ???
Reasons to read: Successful early aggression, worker migration, how much no trade hurts, which type of loss will it be, final desperate gasp failing badly

LotR6 – Progressive Paranoia
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=54625
Version: PTW 1.21
Civ: Ottomans
Difficulty: Deity
Variant: Worse diplomacy each age, from no limits to AW
Roster: Arathorn, Gothmog, Skyfish, T-hawk, JMB
Dates: May 29, 2003 – August 4, 2003
Result: Conquest victory in 1854 AD
Score: 5620
Reasons to read: Early dogpile successfully beaten, dry start, the power of sipahi, craziest beachhead in the LotR series, nukes, race to finish

LotR7 – Passive Culturalists
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=59054
Version: PTW 1.21
Civ: Babylon
Difficulty: Deity
Variant: Passive, going for 100K culture victory on deity
Roster: Arathorn, JMB, Skyfish, Gothmog, Bam-Bam
Dates: July 18, 2003 – November 4, 2003
Result: Spaceship loss in 1760 AD
Score: 2800
Reasons to read: Limitations of cultural warfare, the power of a runaway AI

LotR8a – Crazy Celts
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=60779
Version: PTW 1.21 – 1.27
Civ: Celts
Difficulty: Monarch
Variant: Wild, unpredictable roles for each leader
Roster: Arathorn, TriviAl, Snaproll, meldor, Karasu
Dates: August 6, 2003 – November 19, 2003
Result: Domination win in 1882 AD
Score: 5362
Reasons to read: Just for the roles, some good write-ups, a number of hilarious quotes

LotR8b – Irrational Iroquois
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=60782
Version: PTW 1.21
Civ: Iroquois
Difficulty: Regent
Variant: Wild, unpredictable roles for each leader (open game)
Participants: Arathorn, ControlFreak, Sirian, Sullla, Coffee, Puzzlinon, cgannon64, JMB, Northern Pike, Grimjack, JustBen, Shadowfax, T-hawk, LKendter, Skyfish, hotrod0823, Brewster, a space oddity, Dark Savant, Reagan, KELLO, KotatsuNeko, jack merchant, Rik Meleet, ChrTh
Dates: August 6, 2003 – September 27, 2003
Result: Domination win in 1768 AD
Score: 3799
Reasons to read: For the roles, the “camping out” to grab the game, the number of participants, the extreme builder phase at the end

LotR9 – Open eXtreme Variants
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=66265
Version: PTW 1.27
Civ: Persia
Difficulty: Regent
Variant: OCC, AW, Infantry, Despotic, Conquest
Participants: Arathorn, Belisar, T_McC, Deatvert, 6thGenTexan, LKendter, Coffee
Dates: October 17, 2003 – October 21, 2003
Result: Conquest win in 110 BC
Score: 6529
Reasons to read: Quick and fun, lots of variants, IMMORTALS

LotR10 – Scouting Sid
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=67720
Version: C3C 1.00 – 1.12 – 1.13
Civ: Netherlands
Difficulty: Sid
Variant: (see difficulty)
Participants: Arathorn, Bam-Bam, Skyfish, Speaker, Reagan, Gothmog
Date: November 5, 2003 – January 13, 2004
Result: Diplomatic victory in 1585 AD
Score: 6532
Reasons to read: First successful Sid game recorded anywhere to my knowledge, complete early Sid dogpile, Sid victory with no bonus food at start, Sid victory without building the Great Library, nuking the UN site to win by diplomacy, ultra-bombers, breath-taking final 22 turns

LotR11 – Mayan Menace
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=67724
Version: C3C 1.00
Civ: Maya
Difficulty: Demi-god
Variant: Maximum Aggression opponents
Roster: Arathorn, LKendter, Arizona_Steve, Coffee, Belisar
Dates: November 5, 2003 – December 9, 2003
Result: Domination victory in 1395 AD
Score: ???
Reasons to read: Combat, buying armies with cash from captured cities

LotR12 – In AWE of Rome
http://forums.civfanatics.com/archiv...p/t-75983.html
Version: C3C 1.15
Civ: Rome
Difficulty: Emperor
Variant: Always War (AWE)
Roster: Arathorn, Arizona_Steve, (Ridgelake, T-hawk, Aggie)
Dates: January 19, 2004 – January 20, 2004
Result: Conquest loss in 2800 BC
Score: ??? (very low)
Reason to read: Very short and fast

LotR13 – Schizo SGers
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=86752
Version: C3C 1.15
Civ: Custom (Japan)
Difficulty: Monarch
Variant: Passive Always War
Roster: Arathorn, Kylerean, T-hawk, Arizona_Steve, T_McC
Dates: April 29, 2004 – June 22, 2004
Result: Domination win in 1878 AD
Score: ???
Reason to read: Propaganda, city names, culture flips, resource battles

LotR14 – RAW (and uncut?)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92212
Version: C3C 1.22
Civ: Aztecs
Difficulty: Regent
Variant: Always war – 32 civs on a small map, limited armies
Roster: Arathorn, Kylerean, Reagan, T-hawk, Speaker
Dates: June 25, 2004 – July 30, 2004
Result: Domination win in 720 AD
Score: 4570
Reason to read: Earliest SG city sacking, 31 foes in AW, extremely early combat

LotR15 – Open Regent with a Twist
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92599
Version: C3C 1.22
Civ: China (random)
Difficulty: Regent
Variant: 100 turns of shift-enter at the beginning (LATE start)
Participants: Arathorn, Zwingli, Kylerean, microbe, 6thGenTexan, grs, LKendter, Coilean, SesnofWthr, T_McC, Foresight
Dates: June 29, 2004 – August 1, 2004
Result: Domination win in 1772 AD
Score: 2201
Reason to read: Recovery from a huge hole

Arathorn

LotR16 – Happy Halloween
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=135506
Version: Civ4 (out-of-the-box)
Civ: FDR of the Americans
Difficulty: Prince
Variant: None
Participants: Arathorn, Speaker, Arizona_Steve, Reagan, Jaffa Tamarin
Dates: October 31, 2005 – December 10, 2005
Result: Spaceship win in 1974 AD
Score: 10324
Reason to read: First Civ4 SG I played (possibly first Civ4 SG ever finished)

LotR17 – Dueling Deity
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137333
Version: Civ4 (out-of-the-box)
Civ: Washington of the Americans
Difficulty: Deity
Variant: See difficulty
Participants: Arathorn, grahamiam, Mark1031, Vol, bed_head7
Dates: Nov. 3, 2005 – Dec. 22, 2005
Result: Time loss in 2040 AD
Score: low
Reason to read: Experimenting way above difficulty level

LotR18 – No Cottage Challenge
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145463
Version: Civ4 (?)
Civ: Peter of the Russians
Difficulty: Prince
Variant: No cottages allowed
Participants: Arathorn, ThERat, Obormot, Speaker, Jabah
Dates: Dec. 2, 2005 – Jan. 16, 2006
Result: Domination victory in 1955 AD
Score: 10K+
Reason to read: Farms, good discussion on building location

LotR19 – Epic Immortality
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=147428
Version: Civ4 (?)
Civ: England
Difficult: Immortal
Variant: None
Participants: Arathorn, Kylearan, Islandia, Shillen, ThERat
Dates: Dec. 12, 2005 – Jan. 22, 2006
Result: Diplomatic victory in 1782 AD
Score: High
Reason to read: One of the earliest high-level Civ4 SGs (and a win to boot)

LotR20 – Wild War
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3443208
Version: Civ4 (?)
Civ: Napoleon of the French
Difficulty: Prince
Variant: Always War
Participants: Arathorn, Jaffa Tamarin, Arizona_Steve, Greebley, Zed-F
Dates: Dec. 12, 2005 – Jan. 1, 2006
Result: Conquest loss in 1530 AD
Score: low
Reason to read: AW loss is always exciting

LotR21 – Revenge
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3597664
Version: Civ4 (?)
Civ: Greece
Difficulty: Noble
Variant: Always War
Participants: Arathorn, Jaffa Tamarin, Arizona_Steve, Greebley, Zed-F
Dates: Jan. 19, 2006 – Feb. 28, 2006
Result: Abandoned due to inevitable conquest lost
Score: Not recorded
Reason to read: Another AW loss

LotR22 – Insane Izzy
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3626029
Version: Civ4 1.52
Civ: Isabella of Spain
Difficulty: Prince
Variant: Religion Fanatic (custom variant)
Participants: Arathorn, LKendter, Jabah, Kylearan, MadDogTrebonius
Dates: Jan. 26, 2006 – Mar. 27, 2006
Result: Domination win in 1920 AD
Score: ?
Reason to read: Early game discussions/work with keeping Spain pure of heretical religions

LotR23 – Only One (Built)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=252276
Version: Civ4 BtS 3.13
Civ: Vikings
Difficulty: Prince
Variant: Can only build one city, must win by domination
Participants: Arathorn, LKendter, Strauss, Admiral Kutzov, Tartan
Dates: Nov. 25, 2007 – Dec. 12, 2007
Result: Domination win in 1290 AD
Score: 125897
Reason to read: Conquer, conquer, conquer

LotR24 – French Menagerie
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6242446
Version: Civ4 BtS 3.13
Civ: French
Difficulty: Monarch
Variant: All UUs enabled
Participants: Arathorn, T_McC, LKendter, Jabah, Refar
Dates: Dec. 11, 2007 – Jan. 24, 2008
Result: Domination win in 1786 AD
Score: 121742
Reason to read: Every UU – c’mon, what more excuse do you need?

LotR25 – Corporate Culture
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=258998
Version: Civ4 BtS
Civ: Gandhi of the Indians
Difficulty: Monarch
Variant: Must win by culture without artists or cultural slider
Participants: Arathorn, Methos, Tatran, Admiral_Kutzov, LKendter
Dates: Jan. 14, 2008 – Feb. 24, 2008
Result: Culture win in 1889 AD
Score: Not recorded
Reason to read: Dissolution of group, culture concerns, corporation’s cultural power, solo finish after some thought the game was lost

LotR26 – Mounted Mongols
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6554443
Version: Civ4 BtS
Civ: Napoleon of the Mongols
Difficulty: Emperor
Variant: No move-1 units allowed. Must win by military
Participants: Arathorn, darrelljs, Jabah, Ozbenno, Kylearan
Dates: Mar. 1, 2008 – Apr. 9, 2008
Result: Domination win in 1680 AD
Score: 146087
Reason to read: Power of offense

LotR27 – Science-Scorning Spacists
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8710508
Version: Civ4 BtS
Civ: Huayna Capac of the Incas
Difficulty: Emperor
Variant: Must win by space. No science-boosting abilities allowed
Participants: Arathorn, ZPV, Methos, Rex Tyrannus, Ozbenno
Dates: Dec. 8, 2009 – Mar. 22, 2010
Result: Spaceship win in 1930 AD
Score: 31848
Reason to read: Catch-up from early hole, stealing tech after tech after tech, tech trading, destruction of competing spaceship

Arathorn

This post will eventually be used to record Civ5 LotR games.

At least, that's the plan.

Arathorn

I think Civ 5 is the most adaptable to LotR play. After all, they included The One Ring as a resource!!! (OK, so they also included the Nine and the Three...) Seriously, the first time I saw the Gold symbol on the map, which was during the ustream, I totally thought Hey you found The One Ring!!!

As a long time SG lurker, nice to see the LOTR series will be making the jump to V. :)

I can officially sign up for my own game! I have Civ5. Installing it on one machine while I type this on a different one. :)

Does owning the game digitally on Steam count as "in-hand"? Because totally want in on some succession game goodness here. ;)

Yes, owning a Steam copy is "in-hand." I just don't want people who are waiting for mail-orders to arrive signing up. I still like the physical feeling of a disc in hand, but I'm an old fogey.

Signed up for LotR28:
Arathorn (all)
Corbeau (0) -- unless I'm missing something

Sign-ups still open and priority seating for previous LotR participants.

Arathorn

Arathorn, since steam went so smooth yesterday + I successfully played the demo on my new rig, I will have my game activated Friday morning 7am (Singapore time), which means Thursday afternoon in America.

If by then your roster isn't full yet, I would be really glad to join.

I did not play much Civ4 and sure do not have any knowledge of V, but I do have the game working, so if you need another body count me in.

I'll put myself forward as a low-priority member. Just finished my first game of Civ 5 (oh god I have class in seven hours, stupid One More Turn), cruising to an easy win on Prince, so King should be doable. But if your vets show up, by all means fit them in.

Looks like we have 5, pending LotR vets coming in:
Arathorn
Corbeau
ThERat
vmxa
Aretii

And for those who are unhappy about the deadline on this one, don't worry. This won't be the only game I'm running. I'm looking at starting another one Oct. 1 or so. Not sure on all the details yet, but I'll be posting in 10ish days.

Arathorn

Whatever SG you wnat me to put me in would be good for me. My first game was Greece/ Warlord/ Standard All. It resulted in a Domination win, somewhat challenging though. I'll warn you before hand that I don't expect Civ5 to be easy for me and this will be my Low-Priority SG for a couple of months.

Wow - lurk mode on.


Arathorn
ThERat
vmxa

Several names I recall from when I was active - good luck

I'll put myself forward as a low-priority member. Just finished my first game of Civ 5 (oh god I have class in seven hours, stupid One More Turn), cruising to an easy win on Prince, so King should be doable. But if your vets show up, by all means fit them in.

Lol... I had the same experience. I just finish a long game, I look up, and I have two hours until class.

Just skip the class. It's just Physics anyway.

Wow - lurk mode on.


Several names I recall from when I was active - good luck

You! I remember lurking your SGs in CIII and IV days. It's nice to see you still around!

Crap, having LK watching puts the pressure on. MUST FIND INNER TRANQUILITY :borg:

Well we shall see if Civ V can get ThERat to put down CCM for bit. :D

Still on the wall about getting the game, but you'll be the first to know if I do...

Well we shall see if Civ V can get ThERat to put down CCM for bitHa, CCM is a truly great mod, I am still enjoying that.

So, with that preliminary roster, what are the plans for the game? Looking at some feedback and some of the demo impressions I get, money/food and happiness are crucial. That said, what are we aiming for? Conquest, space or else?

It seems diplomatic win is currently broken as are a few other things. For example, it seems you can do the bad old ROP rape, which I think should be banned for our game. Also, breaking deals shouldn't be allowed, we are playing honorable, don't we?

LK, great to see you, aren't you going to get Civ 5?

Food is king I would say. Grow and get more of everything.

At least no deliberate breaking of deals. I cannot speak to the Open Borders as I am refusing those in my games for now. I did not like it in IV, did not like RoP in III.

Food lets you put pop in those structure boosting slots sort of like what I recall of specialist in IV way back when.

I think culture is a close second to food as you need to keep expanding your borders to get those tiles. It does seem that they are not crushing you for having more towns early.

Have not played enough to really evaluate anything though. Exploring lets you find ruins and natural wonders, but it is not easy to do as there are so many barb camps popping up.

Still not sure about what is the best thing to do with the city states. It seems they are as fickled as the leaders were in IV. Friends, allies, boom back to square one.

vmxa, I'm afraid I must disagree with you on a number of counts. Culture isn't very important for area, as you can pay a small amount of gold and buy the exact tile you want. Cash comes much more easily than hammers, and hammers are what you need to make culture (or food, in which case the comparison is harsher yet). It's still usually worth getting a culture generator or two in a settlement, but culture does not need to be a conscious focus unless you want to get lots of social policies.

I wouldn't call city-states fickle in the slightest. You've got a number. Your job, if you're courting them as an ally, is to get that number bigger than any of the other civs' numbers (which you cannot see). You can go on quests for them if they give you one, or you can just save in the piggy-bank and empty it on their head. They won't go to war against you, and the only way to lose them as an ally is the influence decaying, at a transparent rate, over a long period of time. But really, you don't need them outside of a number of specific circumstances: 1) They have a resource you need 2) They're Maritime 3) They're Cultural and you want a cultural victory. Militaristic city-states aren't worth the trouble for the sake of their trait, at least not on the sub-Emperor difficulties (haven't tried Emperor+ yet). They're useful in the early game if you can get Ally with them doing the stuff you were doing already, but you don't need to go out of your way substantially for them.

That said, I agree with you on food being paramount, and open borders, with the death of foreign trade routes, is mostly a waste of time unless you need to get through their lands for scouting or war (duh) or are trying to solidify a relationship with an ally.

I'll echo that city-states are predictable, though subject to major swings. The biggest issue is keeping track of what missions which city-states are offering. I once was allied with two city-states that hated each other's guts. I went to war against another civilization, and when the other civ eliminated one allied city-state my second ally switched sides outright!

I partially disagree about the importance of culture. I do agree that you want some minimum culture production, as you can avoid a great many tile purchases. That's important mostly because gold is really, really useful in Civ 5; Rush building is available from the start, and city-states can provide major bonuses if you're willing to pay cash (maritime food bonuses, anyone?). If you're not tied up paying for tiles, you can do a lot of other things with that money. However, social policies are no small thing; they provide major bonuses for almost every strategy. I'd go so far as to say that France is my favorite nation of Civ 5 because of the speed and flexibility that their trait provides.

All that said, I'm not precisely uber at the game. I just lost my first full Civ 5 game on King.

All of my impression are subject to change as I have only had the game for a little over 1 day.

Win type can be determined as we go along. I'm thinking spaceship might be good, just so we discover the whole tech tree. I'm struggling to not just win Domination in my solo game at this point. It seems by far the easiest route.

What I did was build/found three cities -- one for production, one for science, one for gold. Each helps contribute a bit to the culture and such of the whole civ. Science city got irrigated, gold city got trade posted, production city mix of irrigation and mining and such.

I have conquered most of the rest of my empire. It's been pretty easy, actually. But one game on Prince doesn't mean a whole lot.

Once the game starts and we know who we are, we can focus on utilizing that civ's strengths, too.

Arathorn

So good to see some of the familiar names pop-up here. :)

Not a signup sadly, although I have the Steam download ready and the demo running. I need to limit myself to the GotM Training game. But definitely lurking! :goodjob:

ok, I got the game running now...

I've been playing pretty peacefully through my first game (in which I ran out of time while attempting a Culture win, losing to a runaway that conquered his entire larger continent), but I just tried early warmongering with Alexander. Companion Cavalry, with Hoplite backup, are crazy powerful. They obliterate pretty much everything in the ancient age; even Spearmen are an even fight for Companion Cavalry, and Hoplites have an edge against vanilla Spearmen.

So basically, I kinda see why early domination would be a popular and relatively easy strategy if you've got a civ built for it. I also see why that would get old fast, so I'd second Space as a victory goal.

Also, the AI doesn't seem too good at handling naval units or invasions, though they'll at least make clumsy attempts at it. I'd suggest Pangea so we can see the AI at it's best, rather than at it's worst.

Might I recommend that we overload the map? There's no real dynamic landgrab with the default number of civs. I added 4 AI to my Standard size game (7->11) and there's much more elbowing around for lebensraum. As it is, the growth curve is slow enough that you don't need to be proactive in getting cities down.

But if we want to play a more "standard" game to start, that makes total sense.

I'm announcing a 24-hour delay on the first game, because of my schedule and my on-going desire to get more old-timers involved. Anyone bumped will be given priority seating in LotR29 if wanted. I love playing with people I've not played with before, too, but.....

LotR28 -- Random Rollicking for Returning Refugees
Version: Civ5 out-of-the-box
Civ: Random
Difficulty: One level above the "middle"/"even" level
Win condition: Anything goes
Variant(s): NONE
Participants: For the first LotR Civ5 game, priority seating will be given based on the number of previous LotR games played in. Sign-up time will break ties. YOU MUST HAVE THE GAME IN HAND BEFORE SIGNING UP!!! Also, no beta-testers allowed. This rule is on the honor system, but all of us in LotR28 should be playing the game with very few preconceptions (just what we've gained from games on our own). Sign-ups will close September [b]25th[\b] at 11:59 p.m. CDT, if I have enough signed-up at that point. Sign-ups begin now, in any of the LotR threads. All other Civ5 games must be signed up for in the Civ5 thread (once it exists).
Start Date: September 26
Current sign-ups:
Arathorn (a lot)
Corbeau (0 games)
ThERat (2 games)
vmxa (0 games)
Aretii (0 games)

Several lurkers....hi! I definitely like the idea of a space victory. Not enough to require it, but I think that should be our tentative goal going into the game.

I should have time tonight to put up an opening spot screenshot, though.

Arathorn

For example, it seems you can do the bad old ROP rape, which I think should be banned for our game. Also, breaking deals shouldn't be allowed, we are playing honorable, don't we?

It was supposedly fixed in the patch today.. but I havent tested :)

The patch seems to be a serious problem or I am dummer than I realized. Open town and no icons or bust. I wanted to take a citizen off a tile and put to either another tile or a Lib, but no way to change them now?

It seems to paint the screen differently, small issue. I actually stopped playing as it pointless, if I cannot move pop around.

The patch seems to be a serious problem or I am dummer than I realized. Open town and no icons or bust. I wanted to take a citizen off a tile and put to either another tile or a Lib, but no way to change them now?

It seems to paint the screen differently, small issue. I actually stopped playing as it pointless, if I cannot move pop around.

I tried to fire up a game with new patch, and I can't see that the citizen allocation is any different from previously? (I assume you open up the citizen allocation focus section in city screen? )

Dummer it is then.

Hi Arathorn!

I'd like to join this SG if I can. I played Civ3 a lot (including some of the LotR games), but I've been out of the Civ scene for pretty much the entire Civ4 era, so my Civ skills may be a bit rusty.

I have the game through Steam. Steam account is jaffa_tamarin, if anyone wants to friend me :D

Current sign-ups:
Arathorn (a lot)
Corbeau (0 games)
ThERat (2 games)
vmxa (0 games)
Aretii (0 games) - last to sign up with 0 games -- sorry, you miss this one. :(
Jaffa Tamarin (5 games)

Oddly enough, Jaffa, you played 3 Civ4 LotR games and only 2 Civ3 LotR games, though we played quite a few RB games together in the Civ3 days.

Any more old hands going to show up, game on computer, looking for a spot??

Arathorn

Hi,

I finally received my copy of Civ 5 (Amazon failed to deliver on release day yesterday). So I'd like to sign up for this SG, but I'd also feel bad for pushing someout out, so an actively discussing lurker status would be fine too. :)

-Kylearan

Oddly enough, Jaffa, you played 3 Civ4 LotR games and only 2 Civ3 LotR games, though we played quite a few RB games together in the Civ3 days.
Arathorn

I am surprised. I didn't think I'd played even that much Civ4.

Current sign-ups:
Arathorn (a lot)
Corbeau (0 games)
ThERat (2 games)
vmxa (0 games) - also out -- sorry. :(
Aretii (0 games) - last to sign up with 0 games -- sorry, you miss this one.
Jaffa Tamarin (5 games)
Kylearan (6 games)

I very rarely don't do first to sign up gets the spot. But for the first game with a new iteration, I'm going to do it. Sorry, vmxa and Aretii. I hope to see you next game. Still almost 14 hours for others to sign up, if they want.

My next goal is to start the game and get a couple screenshots up. Let's see if I can do that in Civ5.

Arathorn

Are you full already? I'd join but I participated only in 2 succession games, both turned to be suction games at the end.

I'd be interested in trying a sg. I'm a newb to SG though.

My current game is full. Sorry. There will be more chances, though I tend to play difficult games. I will be starting another one relatively soon, I think/hope.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=383236 is where it is. Many of you found it, but I had problems linking to it earlier. Internet misbehaving and then gone most of the day.

Final roster:
Arathorn (a lot)
Corbeau (0 games)
ThERat (2 games)
Jaffa Tamarin (5 games)
Kylearan (6 games)

Should be FUN!!!!!!

Arathorn

I broke down and am downloading the deluxe edition from Steam while writing this (not surprising, really). Consider me a sign-up for the next SG.

I have no interest in playing Civ V but I plan to enjoy the SG's. Have at it gentlemen

Arizona_Steve -- too late for preferential sign-up for LotR29. That'll be first-come, first-serve, when I post it. Which will hopefully be before too long. I just have to pick which of my 17 seemingly fun ideas I'm going to go with first.

Lurking is absolutely fine! Readers are great.

Arathorn

I can wait. And besides, it'll probably help if I run a couple of solo games to get my head around the changes from Civ IV.

LK, great to see you, aren't you going to get Civ 5?
Not in the near future. I'm still mostly burned out on Civ

I see even more old names since I first caught this.

Best of luck, gents. Not sure if I'm up for Civ again, but it sure is fun to wax nostalgic.

It's fun to wax nostalgic. It's fun to play, too. But it is a time commitment.

Good to see you again, Bam-Bam.

Arathorn

LotR29 Angry Aztecs
Version: Latest of Civ5
Civ: Montezuma of the Aztecs
Difficulty: Immortal
Map: Standard-size, standard # of opponents, continents, high water level
Win Condition: Domination (all enabled but anything but domination feels/counts
as a loss)
Variant: ANGRY! (described below) Basically, we will not have happy people once we cross a certain threshold fairly early in the game
Start Date: As soon as filled
Sign ups:
Arathorn
Vmxa (24 hrs to sign up or lose preferential spot)
Aretii (24 hrs to sign up or lose preferential spot)
<open>
<open>


See first post for general rules and notes and such. 24/72. No worker steals. Maximal ethics.

ANGRY! Rules
(under construction)

Restrictions:

Policies:
No Legalism (in Tradition)
No Meritocracy (in Liberty)
No garrisoning cities if Military Caste (Honor) is active
No Piety at all
No Protectionism (Commerce)
No Humanism(Rationalism) or Sovereignty (Rationalism)
No Planned Economy (Order)

Buildings:
Circus
Colosseum
Courthouse
Theatre
Stadium

Wonders:
Eiffel Tower
Notre Dame
The Hanging Gardens

War:
Can not raze or puppet cities – must capture every city.



My thoughts:
Unhappiness has multiple effects.

At low levels, it cuts excess food by 75%. That means cities essentially stop growing and/or grow very slowly. This is not a huge deal, and it’s often temporary (though it won’t be for us). Population can be gained in other ways! :hammer:

At high levels, it also cuts production by 50% and eliminates the chance to build settlers. Well, we can still grow our population :hammer:, but we can’t found additional cities. That kinda hurts. Production also becomes relatively a complete loser to gold. By this point, I expect we’ll be very heavy into trading posts. Buy units cheaply, upgrade ‘em, etc. Food and hammers are both semi-nixed at this point.

Also, at high levels, our troops "lose effectiveness". I don’t know what this means. 33% loss of combat strength? I think I saw that somewhere, but it's hard to tell for certain. Something like that wouldn’t surprise me. We’ll find out for sure. But it’ll make our accumulation of additional population more challenging.

I should point out that the map settings will mean we’ll have to tech a fair ways – at least to Navigation. Fortunately, beakers are only indirectly affected by happiness (by way of population growth). So we will need/want a large population base. And research agreements might be valuable – or they might not be. Something to keep in mind and discuss.

Potential sign-ups, do note difficulty level and variant nature of this. Please be ready to at least consider the possibility of defeat. We will need good play and good discussion and good luck to beat this, maybe….

Arathorn

I'll pass, as my current game seems like it'll be containing a fair amount of happiness management while waging war. Looks interesting, though. Have fun!

I'm definitely in on this one. I'm curious myself how unhappiness works and it looks like this game will allow us to figure it out.

I'll pass on this one (but will now be subscribed to this to jump in a later game).

Roster:
Arathorn
Methos
<open>
<open>
<open>

Not much interest. Difficulty level scaring people of? Concept not interesting? Just nobody doing Civ5 SGs?

Arathorn

I would jump in if I had time! But even the GotM test game, which is the first and only game I'm playing since getting the full game, hasn't been played at all last week. I'm sure other people will come if you give it time. :)

Not much interest. Difficulty level scaring people of? Concept not interesting? Just nobody doing Civ5 SGs?


I'm restricting myself to one SG at a time so as to still have time for solo and other games.

I only just saw this, but I am holding back. Want to see, if Civ5 will hold my interest longer than IV did. Otherwise, I would say yes the variants are premature. Most are gong to want more experience, before trying variants.

The reason variants are appealing is that players had many games under their belts and wanted new challenges. Here we have not even tried many of the features.

You have a good point, vmxa. For me, though, exploring variants is a way to explore the new features of the game. Does happiness work? What's it mean to be unhappy? That's what I am trying to get at.

For a while, it seemed like everyone was looking for more SGs -- without a limitation on who could sign up. I guess some of them have disappeared.

Oh well. I'll be patient and if this doesn't fly, I'll get something else going.

Arathorn

Arathorn, I hope that the board slows down and you get the SG going. It is so hard to follow or contribute for me. I want to play and when I take a break to come here, server busy.

If it is not busy the pages get so many post I cannot find ones I wanted to follow in General or Strat.

Anyway I figure in a week I should know, if Civ5 will go the way of Civ4 for me or the way of
Civ3. Then I will be able to join SG's. I do not want to join and wish I never played the game as I did in Civ4.

Difficulty level scaring people of? Concept not interesting? Just nobody doing Civ5 SGs? I'm lurking, but I don't feel comfortable joining when I don't have a grasp of the basic mechanics. I don't get much time to play except weekends.

I'm curious myself how unhappiness works and it looks like this game will allow us to figure it out. me too.

The last LOTR game I was in got a little contentious, so I figure I should wait until how I've figured out why I can't just whip axes and go kill everyone. ;) :wavey:

While I'm in no rush to get Civ5, I know I wouldn't want to start with variants.

The LK series was mostly generic at the begging of 3 and 4.

For a while, it seemed like everyone was looking for more SGs -- without a limitation on who could sign up.
Yes, I'm surprised too how few SGs are running and how hard it is to fill up the roster. When Civ 4 came out, we could run several RB SGs in parallel, now I'm glad I found enough people for mine.

I for one have mixed feeling about the game so far, but I'm looking forward for some heavy variant games nonetheless. But I'm playing one Civ 4 PBEM and two Civ 5 SGs at the moment, so I'd better not sign up for more until one has completed. :)

Anybody? I realize the difficulty is high, but this is one excellent way to figure out how happiness/unhappiness works.

I may help to to 1) post in the registration thread 2) put up a current signup on page 1.

Would love to but just can't commit to anymore Civ at the moment, posting in the signup thread as vmxa suggested would be a good idea.

There's a sign-up thread? I'm not seeing it. If one does exist somewhere, please put my name on it.

I meant registration thread. Probably does not matter, but just another shot.

Good advice. I posted in the registration thread. This area just doesn't seem to be jumping too much. Oh well.

Arathorn

Yes I am quite surprised, but I admit I had not played or followed Civ4 for a long time, so I am not sure how it was doing. Did it have a nice jump of SG's to start off or did it take time to get rolling?

Maybe many are just afraid of looking bad in front of an audience. A few training SG's may be needed to get more players involved.

The General forum is still so busy, I do not open it, so there are a lot of players around. Once the General and Strategy forums slow down, I suspect more will widen their scope and check out this forum.

Right now they probably can barely keep up with those and their sub forums.

I just checked and there are 9 going and 1 more sort of going and 1 trying to get off the ground. That is probably not too bad at this stage.

For your "Angry" game, it looks really hard :eek:.

I noticed that you didn't ban the most powerful happiness wonder in the game, the Forbidden Palace. In addition, you didn't forbid the use of Freedom, which can be an instant 10-15 happiness, more if you run a hardcore SE.

If that is intended, then great. I know what I'd do ;).

I'd sign up, but I'm in two SGs in addition to two Civ 4 PBEM games (which granted only take about 5 minutes every other day). I certainly hope to grab a spot in one of these in the near future :).

Darrell

I'm good for the Angry game.

We have three signed up. If I get one more in the next 7 days, I'll run with four (or five, if I get two sign-ups). I'm willing to compromise to emperor if people want, but I think immortal/demigod is a truer test.

If I don't get filled in another week, I'll change my gameplan.

Arathorn

If one of my current SGs gets finished I'll join whatever LotR SG is starting at the time. So, there's a small possibility that I could actually play this one as 2 of mine are close to being abandoned and another is close to victory. :( or :) (depending on if you want my average level play). Just don't include this as a sign-up, it's a declaration of interest.

LotR29 Odd Aztecs
Version: Latest of Civ5
Civ: Montezuma of the Aztecs
Difficulty: Emperor
Map: Standard-size, standard # of opponents+2, 2 extra city-states, Lakes (hot and wet)
Win Condition: Cultural (all enabled but anything but domination feels/counts
as a loss)
Variant: Odd (described below) Basically, we will not build cultural buildings and try to win culturally
Start Date: As soon as filled
Sign ups:
Arathorn
<open>
<open>
<open>
<open>

Odd!

We can build a monument but not a temple, monastery, opera house, museum, broadcast tower, etc. Wonders are OK but only those which have a purpose other than "just" culture (so no Stonehenge, for example). Details still coming.

Thoughts.....
- Cultural city-states
- KILL UNITS FOR CULTURE!!!
- Use/abuse puppets and hope they build cultural buildings
- Keep our non-puppet cities very very minimal

Side effect -- I'd like to experiment with highly promoted units. March, in particular, is an awesome promotion. Barracks + Armory and maybe a few other things will provide lots of starting xps.

Hoping for sign-ups this time!
Arathorn

Count me in!

In the HOF Beta 1 competition it appears the fastest date for culture games is with a single city. While we probably don't desire to do that, I do suggest that we keep our number of cities small. Note puppet cities don't count towards increased policy cost.

I'll try this one if you'll have me (and no one with one LotR game shows up).

Other than the first game, the LotR series is almost always first come, first served. So, Sparthage, you are definitely in.

We can certainly make this a one-built city game and conquer the rest. That might well be best. But we might want to have 2 or 3 cities, simply to crank more military. I'm hoping puppets will provide some culture for us. I think we might end up puppeting half the world. :)

Arathorn

You can puppet alot with simple military. In my game for beta 1, I had 10+ puppets and only ever had 4 horseman. Allied cultural CSs, policies and puppets will provide the bulk of the work.

You can puppet alot with simple military. In my game for beta 1, I had 10+ puppets and only ever had 4 horseman. Allied cultural CSs, policies and puppets will provide the bulk of the work.

Is that a sign up? :D ;)

I'll join. It sounds fun, and I should be able to cope with two SGs :)

I'll play if you'll have me. The variant sounds both fun and challenging, and the saved game insanity has finally been fixed.

We can build a monument but not a temple, monastery, opera house, museum, broadcast tower, etc. Wonders are OK but only those which have a purpose other than "just" culture (so no Stonehenge, for example). Details still coming.

If we're going the no-:culture: buildings, then I suggest we don't allow monuments either. I'm guessing your reasoning was for the cultural expansion, but I still disagree. We can always buy tiles, or get the civic (Representation) that grants +1 :culture: in each city. I agree on the wonders.

- Keep our non-puppet cities very very minimal

I was thinking this too. My thought was rather then puppet cities, we instead raze them and then sue for peace, that way the AIs keep building more cities and units. I'm thinking rather then destroy civs, we need to keep them small, since we're going to need plenty of units to kill for our :culture:.

Side effect -- I'd like to experiment with highly promoted units. March, in particular, is an awesome promotion. Barracks + Armory and maybe a few other things will provide lots of starting xps.

This sounds very interesting, especially considering the prereqs some of the promotions require.

I took a quick look at the policies and which ones would help us the most and this was what I came up with:

Liberty
- Representation: +1 culture/city

Piety
- Mandate of Heaven: 50% excess happiness added to culture
- Theocracy: -20% unhappiness in non-occupied cities

Freedom
- Constitution: culture doubled in cities with world wonder
- Free Speech: -25% policy culture costs

There was one other policy that helped remove unhappiness (thereby stacking with Mandate of Heaven), but it was in one of the trees that wouldn't agree with one, or more, of the above, so I left it out. Sorry, can't recall what it was, or which tree.

Thought on strategy, get the +1 culture per city, slight bonus but potentially useful.
Puppets will probably make up a lot of the culture (~5/turn each)
as will City States
so... Honor, Patronage, Piety, Freedom, Liberty?

That assumes a Puppet strategy.

If we are going a strict "harvesting" strategy... ie continual war... just weaken the enemies enough that they pose no serious threat.. then the Liberty Tree isn't as good.

In that case I Might go with Tradition... get a super capital, and Wonders, and the local defense.

Also "weakened enemies" means lots of empty space so you can fight barbs as well.

It's actually incredibly thematic given the historical Aztec tendency to wage war without actually conquering (see: flower wars).

Odd Aztecs started at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9844297

Starting position posted. Further discussion can go there.

Arathorn