EDIT: Hello new peeps. This thread started as me just commenting on a few things in the game as I started my first game, but quickly descended into a pretty complete screenshotted playthrough with my thoughts on the game along the way. I started this with hope that it could encourage a lot of those concerned or disenchanted with Civ 5 due to the negative threads, which as I continue I feel are unfair and somewhat biased against what I believe is an amazing game. Thanks for reading and spread the word! :)

Great Scientists are WOW.

EACH ONE is like an Oracle from Civ 4.

You can pop ANY tech with them that you have available to research. I love em! Perhaps OP but they're awesome I wouldn't be surprised if they get nerfed at some point. With Babylon's UA I can tear through the tech tree to Acoustics and unlock Freedom branch (Renaissance only) for my second policy, to get my Specialist Economy working early. :) The slingshot potential is mind-boggling, but of course you lose out on their other abilities if you pop the tech.

Combat is fantastic. I'm in North America on an Earth map and was defending a choke point near a lake in the NE and the Germans kept coming at me but my archers tore them apart en route. With the line of sight, 1UT and terrain bonuses it worked a treat. Archers not being able to shoot two tiles into the forest etc. Feels really strategic even in that small scale early war. <3<3<3<3

Well done Firaxis! Top job so far!

I'm in hell

Global happiness works awesome. I just got into negative happiness and it crippled my entire civ. Looking around for luxuries in a panic. I never ever looked around for luxury resources in a panic before. It's certainly not a dumbed down move, as while accomplishing the same goal (population limiting) they've made it integral to the core game-play and something of a crisis that needs resolving, instead of happiness just something that'll allow your cities to get slightly bigger before they reach the inevitable cap.

Yeah. This is going to be a really long work day.

Who's the coolest civ leader so far

i can not wait...

What difficulty level are you playing?

Share the heaven with us please! See my thread titled "For the lucky ones..." (here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=380890) Please answer?

:bowdown: Lemmy is God! :bowdown:

Prince (which equiv to Noble in this). I was cocky. In hindsight perhaps a mistake as my civs are miserable and I coulda done with the difficulty setting happiness bonus. ;D

Only played Babylon and they seem awesome. The Great Scientists being amazing and all.

I suspect Ghandi will be my other fave though being a small civ kinda guy.

Diplomacy:

Bismark pre-war, I went to talk to him and he was scowling. He was SCOWLING. Forget your +4's and -2s... I looked at his face and he seemed in a huff, and from that I got nervous. Ten turns or so later he declared war on me.

That's great in my book.

This is so unfair :cry: I'm home from work, I have the whole evening for myself, the damn game is sitting on the hard drive and I can't play it!

Has there been a screen of him smiling released? Maybe he's just gruff looking even when he's happy ;)

I also imagine he's set to be a warmonger b/c he has all his special stuff geared towards war at different eras.

When I met him he was. Well not smiling... he was rather neutral and cordial in his posture. Offered a pact of cooperation.

Then about 5 turns later he cancelled it. I didn't pay attention to his demeanour that time...

The time after that it was clear he wasn't my biggest fan. He was leant forward, intense scowl, sharp thrusting hand gestures as he talked. I suspect it's because my warriors trudged through a city state he had publicly declared his protection of.

It was top. I felt like I was actually getting 'vibes' off the AI.

Lemmy, I love your style of writing and your avatar that goes with that ;)

Keep it coming!! :)

BIG THANKS! (@ work + in Europe :( )

I would definitely subscribe to you if it was possible on the forums. :D
Can't wait till I can play this game myself..

E: apparently subscribing is possible after all. :)

:D

Peace at last! Bismark clearly got fed up with bouncing warriors off my pikemen at the choke-point below Akkad. Trees slowing down their movement let my pikemen get some good healing in between attacks.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/peace.jpg

He's obviously not happy about it....

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/bismark.jpg

I just managed to get iron and upgraded one of my warriors to a swordsman, hopefully should stop Bismark getting any ideas for now.

Unfortunately my civs still hate me and I got a unit disbanded because I'm a pauper. :'( Maybe I should go beg Bismark for some coinage.

No, he didn't appreciate that...

Time for currency I think!

I'm in hell

Same here. 3 hours ago i started downloading the demo. Estimated time: 2 hours.

Right now I`m still downloading the demo. Estimated time: 2 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this keeps up I will have to go to sleep before i get to play...

Has it come to this? I'm building a trading post on a hill.

I would definitely subscribe to you if it was possible on the forums. :D
Can't wait till I can play this game myself..

Another poor, hard done by European here, saying I agree!

Really liking your posts and screenshots. Any more you want to tell about your game would be great :)

I may have a turd military, a collapsing economy and miserable minions but I've got plenty of boffins knocking about apparently....

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/lit.jpg

Go Go Great Scientists! (Babylon are amazing for tech :|)

Grats man. That's a very nice defensive setup you have there too. I'd shoot for Great Wall and then fill up that entire NE penninsula. I'd get a boat on that lake around the time you research optics. Have a trireme dedicated to keeping off embarked guys and you'll be in a good spot overall.

Do forts replace forest? With all that forest SW of your spearman you could ZoC him too.

there were always shops you could get a copy earlier but with steam that doesn't matter anymore
%#@$#ned

So here's the question: I'm now being nudged to build roads by the (awesome) 'good places to improve' thing which replaces the blue rings with specific icons for what would be handy to build where.

Roads cost maintenance but if I connect up my cities (size 7 / 5) will the extra trade be more than the cost of the roads?

Where's the congestion charge option :S

Go Go Great Scientists! (Babylon are amazing for tech :|)

It seems that way looking at their UA...

I think I'm glad I went for the standard edition :) I won't have pick all the AI leaders to avoid facing the mighty Babylonian tech machine :D

I don't know why (maybe a screenie), but I have it in my mind that trade routes pay for themselves and then some if it's less than 10 hexes.

Grats man. That's a very nice defensive setup you have there too. I'd shoot for Great Wall and then fill up that entire NE penninsula. I'd get a boat on that lake around the time you research optics. Have a trireme dedicated to keeping off embarked guys and you'll be in a good spot overall.

Do forts replace forest? With all that forest SW of your spearman you could ZoC him too.

Yup that's what I was doing, if they were silly enough to stray close to the lake my archers could have a pop at them too.

Great Wall gone, sadly, but I'll be sure to build a fort there when I get (construction?)

Economy:

It's really clever. I *really* have to think about what buildings I want, and whether I can justify their existence. In Civ 4 I pretty much just built everything... if I didn't need more military I'd build a building, if I didn't need a building I'd either build military or just build a building that would be 'handy' but I didn't really need.

The maintenance is a killer. I could build a Colosseum to sort out my unhappiness problem, but I just daren't because of the 3 maintenance which seems like much bigger deal than building maintenance in Civ 4, because it's not just gonna be a case of my science dropping to 90% for a few turns...

I really have to think about not only what buildings I need but when or if I can justify paying for them...

Systems like religion / espionage may have been removed, but I'm being forced to consider core things a lot more that I just kind of did without that much of a concern on Civ 4.

It feels like they've basically taken city maintenance and transplanted it into extra unit / building maintenance. I'm free to build as many or few cities as I like, which is quite a liberating feeling, without obsessing over their maintenance. But that limiter is still present in the form of expensive buildings and units.

How about connecting your cities to the trade network with a harbor? Probably very little maintenence on the building itself (less than a road network anyway) but you'll get plenty of trade gold. Do you have the techs needed?

Nope and only one city is on the coast. ;D nice idea though. :)

Uh oh. Well, good luck man. I love your game so far.

Grrr server overload making it difficult to post these....

This is my favourite thing ever:

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/specialist.jpg

Go go Specialist Economy! I love the Freedom branch! I also get half the unhappiness from specialists, as well as them only eating one food! Time to fill up my buildings and get rid of this unhappiness problem! My markets will be done in a turn or two.

Meanwhile I'm taking advantage of my libraries and Babylonia's UA and am loading up on great scientists. I've just got another and now I have THREE just milling about around Babylon.

I consider building an academy, but then... with my specialist economy leanings don't think it's a good idea. I get 3 from each of my specialists, who at the same time only consume one food and generate less unhappiness. And with the rationalism branch I can get another policy that increases science from specialists by 2 which will mean scientist specialists will each bring in the same as an academy.

The conclusion, stay away from academies when doing a SE....?

I'm waiting till I get a super expensive tech available and going to use them all to try and get an early slingshot to gunpowder. Methinks Bismark will start being more respectful then!

This is definitely good to hear about the economy. So often much of my effort was put into getting that early religion just so I had a viable late game economy. This is great from my point of view, but only when you're on an even playing field. If the AI gets large bonuses I can't imagine how you wouldn't get skunked.

Thanks for the repot. Very entertaining.

I DOES sound like the Great Scientist is pretty superpowerful, doesn't it?

I must say, I love your ongoing monologue about your adventures in the new world of Civ V. It helps me tide over the 1 GB download I'm having to endure since I, too, have the Deluxe Edition.

I'm also quite glad to hear that the Freedom tree is worth it. I'm most likely going to go for Freedom, Liberty, and Commerce at least on my first playthrough (mainly for ideological, libertarian reasons).

And your warning about the maintenance costs of buildings has definitely caused me to reconsider my overbuilding tendency that i had in Civ IV. I'll definitely keep it in mind when I get to play Civ V.

What are you playing at, Bismark?

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/settler.jpg

I give him a nice friendly suggestion that he shouldn't settle any cities near me. Let's see how he reacts?

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/dontbuild.jpg

From where I'm sitting great person improvements seem to be a bust. There were thoughts before that they could be useful, but with a great scientist popping ANY tech (as opposed to putting a little under 2k into it) AND the fact that the improvement removes jungle and potentially covers undiscovered resources it's just an untenable improvement. I expect a patch to make these STACK with regular improvements (OR become buildings with the same benefits).

Thanks :)

It helps me tide over the 1 GB download I'm having to endure since I, too, have the Deluxe Edition.

I think you'll find that's just common practice with pre-load games (was same with L4D2 and countless others). The pre-load updates prior to release, but what tends to happen is a whole bunch of last minute changes / fixes get put up by the developer so the pre-load is out of date come release. It does mean you're only downloading a gig instead of 5-6 or so, so it's still a plus having the pre-load.

Cool lemmy101, gives me an anxious feeling while I wait for the install! :D Looking forward to the satellite graphics, if not included then when the mod is made.

Planetfall is one Mod I want converted asap please! :)

From where I'm sitting great person improvements seem to be a bust. There were thoughts before that they could be useful, but with a great scientist popping ANY tech (as opposed to putting a little under 2k into it) AND the fact that the improvement removes jungle and potentially covers undiscovered resources it's just an untenable improvement. I expect a patch to make these STACK with regular improvements (OR become buildings with the same benefits).

My instincts are this is intentional and will (as other things have proved to) promote more considered use of the GP. It forces you to have to replace a potentially valuable tile to build them. Ok scientists are one thing, but building a great work or a manifactury or whatever could be really handy, but at the possible expense of food or science money or whatever.

Frankly, I don't think the Iron Chancellor--a name I don't believe he got because he loved to pick daisies and write poetry--is going to back down on ANYTHING without a fight. I'd say whether or not you want him to settle next to you, considering your past animosity, it's time to prepare for war.

'What do you call a Babylonian with a smile on his face?'
'An Unmet Player Immigrant'

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/happy.jpg

That is a riot. must post that on funniest screen shots thread!

So I built my colosseum in Babylon and now people are finally smiling. I lost the 75% growth decrease. PHEW. But now I'm back in the red with money.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/happyfinally.jpg

Hey, I was pretty good at Civ 4, ya know...? turns out this game isn't for noob casuals after all I'm getting hammered. I think I need to drop down to Warlord OH THE SHAME.

Then again I did get jipped with my starting luxury resources. 5 FURS THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Bismark the pisshead is hoarding all the wine.

My three great scientists chill back while I work my way through physics, on my way to gunpowder. I'm considering waiting till I get that and then slingshotting up to riflemen straight off and teaching Bismark a lesson.

What is the structure just south of your city (halfway in the water)?

edit: a couple of screens back

Out of curiosity, what victory do you think you'll go for? Technology, to take advantage of Babylonia's tech abilities?

In case anyone is wondering why I've not gotten cosy with Monaco, the city state near me... I think they pity me actually because I'm skint and all my citizens are trying to hurl themselves on their hoes and pick axes.

Out of curiosity, what victory do you think you'll go for? Technology, to take advantage of Babylonia's tech abilities?

I'm hoping to go for the 'starving in a pool of your own tears' victory but I'm not sure if I ticked it in the game set-up or not...

What is the structure just south of your city (halfway in the water)?

edit: a couple of screens back

The under-construction Hagia Sophia. Seems they build turn by turn I suspect opponents could even spy that to see if you're building a wonder. :|

I'm in Europe :(

BANG!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/slingshot.jpg

With my three stockpiled Great Boffins I slingshot through Gunpowder, Metallurgy and Rifling in a single turn. Let's see about that wine now, eh Bismark?

(better build some riflemen first though)

Decrypt faster...uggggh.

OH JOY:

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/happydays.jpg

The recession is over! People are marginally content! Maybe one day we can finally have a golden age?

nice screenies

It's bizarre but great having science totally separated from economy. Before they were just one thing, so if your economy broke the two repercussions were bad science and bad money situation.

Now they're two independent entities, so all the while I was doing well on science and pretty much nothing else. In another game I may have a really great cultural output but crap economy AND science. It gives you more things to balance independently. More things to get right or more things to get wrong. More things to specialise at.

This definitely doesn't feel like it's dumbed down. Just focused and providing more choice and strategy to a more focused set of things. I love it. LOVE IT.

BANG!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/slingshot.jpg

With my three stockpiled Great Boffins I slingshot through Gunpowder, Metallurgy and Rifling in a single turn. Let's see about that wine now, eh Bismark?

(better build some riflemen first though)

Does a Great Scientist, when used, complete whatever technology you're working on, regardless of how much you've done? Or if you have, say, one turn away from technology A and a Great Scientist pops, can you spend him on Technology B and get Technology A next turn?

With my three stockpiled Great Boffins I slingshot through Gunpowder, Metallurgy and Rifling in a single turn. Let's see about that wine now, eh Bismark?

You're making this look too easy. What difficulty level is this?

You get to choose, he works exactly like the Oracle, except you can trigger the effect when you like.

Basically like the GP tech popping on Civ 4, but with the Oracle style of choice. It's massively helpful. Perhaps too helpful I fear for it's survival in future patches. I love it though.

You're making this look too easy. What difficulty level is this?

Prince aka Noble in Civ 4. Bear in mind my civ is comepletely screwed in every regard other than science though. Check out the happiness leader board screenshot above, which pretty much translates into population growth.

Also getting a silly tech lead was always my strong point in Civ 4 so I'm sure some of it is transferable, and I'm playing a science awesome civ.

I suspect the Great Scientist tech popping could do with a nerfing, mind. But basically I stagnated my cities to get as many great scientists out as possible, and saved them up for this, so it has come at a great cost ;D...

With my three stockpiled Great Boffins I slingshot through Gunpowder, Metallurgy and Rifling in a single turn.

Seriously?!?!?

2 culture per turn. I'm hardly the most progressive of civs. I'll get another Social Policy in 61 turns. I'm financially screwed, am last in military in the world. But hey, I know what boom sticks are!

Lesson learnt: Don't just grasp a tech lead in Civ 5 and then try and make up the slack elsewhere when you get uber techs.

I'm financially screwed, am last in military in the world. But hey, I know what boom sticks are!

LOL

"These things would be super cool!!!! If we could just actually make them.":lol:

Seriously?!?!?

Yup. I saved em all up since the start of the game.

Difference is tho in Civ 4 the Oracle slingshot was one player only, so in terms of balance really it's not much different to an engineer rushing a wonder of your choice. I don't know but I really like it. If it's open to all players then the sheer amount of strats that could come from it are mind boggling.

Only way I could get all these scientists anyway was going silly with the library specialists, I've seriously screwed up my civ in the process we'll see how it all turns out...

Can't decide if it's imbalanced because as I say I payed a heavy cost to do this...

Question is, without them popping techs how easy is it to get to Apollo in time for a space victory? It may be you need to pop like crazy to get there in time...

We'll see in a thousand years or so :)

2 culture per turn. I'm hardly the most progressive of civs. I'll get another Social Policy in 61 turns. I'm financially screwed, am last in military in the world. But hey, I know what boom sticks are!

Lesson learnt: Don't just grasp a tech lead in Civ 5 and then try and make up the slack elsewhere when you get uber techs.

I strongly suspected this would be the case, though your advantage may yet be telling if you're allowed time.

Bismark finally trades me one of my massive stockpile of furs for some marble. People are at unprecedented levels of happiness (6) as I click next turn and spy this....

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/sneak.jpg

Bismaaaaaaaaark!

Lulling me into a false sense of security with your marble trinkets while you position your swordmen near my least defensible city, huh?

Overall, would you say you like this game so far?

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/youbetter.jpg

Didn't see them did you?

Yeah, you better run!

lemmy what language does the Babylonians speak in game?

Overall, would you say you like this game so far?

LOVE it. Not sure how much is the 'woooo new' factor but let's just say that didn't even last a full game with Civ Rev. One thing I will say is I definitely don't feel deprived of depth at all.

1UPT is amazing. TOTALLY sold. Hexes. Amazing. Totally sold. Love global happiness. Don't miss religion at all. Every building I choose to build is steeped with deep consideration and concern and second thoughts. Same with military units, I'm not just filling a stack with a liberal variety of available units, they're all built and stationed with due consideration.

I feel my relationship with Bismark is one teetering on the edge. I wouldn't go as far as to say he feels 'human' but since I've been alone with him on this continent for so long he definitely feels a damn sight less AI than in Civ 4 where they were a bunch of stats to be manipulated.

I wish my economy was in a better order I could have played with military a bit more, but that's my own fault... but Bismark's time is coming!

I played every bit of Civ 4 from manual worker to tile to specialist management so I'm not a casual player and this hasn't let me down in the slightest. I can't speak for the uber stat crunchers, mind... perhaps they will miss certain elements but in my mind this is great. It's all still there in some form or other.

Just made more 'to the point' which I think is a good thing.

lemmy what language does the Babylonians speak in game?

:| I have no idea. (I am them, for one ;))

:| I have no idea. (I am them, for one ;))


I know but press one of your units and try to write down what there saying. :lol:

It continues to be a great writeup Lemmy. Did you ever connect your cities through trade routes? Might be worthwhile between the two closest cities. Just set a worker per square and start at the same time (so the road completes in a single chain). Certainly, you get more than 5g from a trade route so it could be beneficial to your bottom line.

As for Bismark I'd use some of those horses to get a mobile defense going and then send at least one trireme to scout. You gotta meet these happy civs... they're probably begging to get rid of some luxuries.

Thanks for the great thread...can't wait to go home later.

I know but press one of your units and try to write down what there saying. :lol:

Unit shouting in their language is SO Civ 4!

ahem.... :mischief:

Nope sorry, apparently leaders are the ones to do the talking now.

That said the english speaking workers annoyed the hell out of me on Civ 4 so I ain't complaining. ;)

I am having problems with Bismark as well. I am quite a bit earlier in the game, but it is just him and me on a continent and I do not trust his units wandering around near my cities.

what about the silly expense post called inflation? is it gone?

It continues to be a great writeup Lemmy. Did you ever connect your cities through trade routes? Might be worthwhile between the two closest cities.


You I got em connected up. With my markets, merchants in the markets, and my trade network I'm now making a bountiful 2 gold a turn. I've made 10 gold so far. I'm a veritable Sultan of Brunei!


As for Bismark I'd use some of those horses to get a mobile defense going and then send at least one trireme to scout. You gotta meet these happy civs... they're probably begging to get rid of some luxuries.

Yeah I think I need to get Navigation. I'm on Earth map so assuming I can't puddle jump with the triremes. ;D

what about the silly expense post called inflation? is it gone?

Gone. All the costs are in unit/building/improvements now. Simpler yes, but then it heaps on the pressure of strategy on those, not on city building, which I think is top.

I am having problems with Bismark as well. I am quite a bit earlier in the game, but it is just him and me on a continent and I do not trust his units wandering around near my cities.

Give his hair a ruffle. He liked it when I did that. I think.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/ohtits.jpg

The filename of this image is ohtits.jpg. I think that sums up my thoughts on the matter.

Perhaps he didn't take too kindly to the hair ruffling after all.

Gone. All the costs are in unit/building/improvements now. Simpler yes, but then it heaps on the pressure of strategy on those, not on city building, which I think is top.

Sounds like good old Civ2! :)
Simpler? Or more sensible? :p

quick(and possibly a stupid) question: how do you get great scientists/people in this version of the game?

Nice! I am playing as Babylon also. 150 turns into my game (roughly) just taking a short forum break before I dive back in. Though I chose to use a small map as my first game. Only 5 other civs. Playing on earth map as well though my start had me starting near what would probably be modern day germany. I do believe that the last civ I havent met may have been given the Americas all to itself...

quick(and possibly a stupid) question: how do you get great scientists/people in this version of the game?

Same as always... wonders, or working specialists in cities.

WAR!

http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/1344014.jpg

Turn 1: Bismark sends in those swordsmen that I 'scared off' earlier, capturing my poor workers.

It's at this point it occurs to me I ONLY BUILT ONE WORKER. What am I playing at?

Sadly I forgot to screen cap. But they parked themselves in a nice cosy forest, which meant they did some serious damage to my swordsmen when I attacked.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/war1.jpg

The pikemen come forward and save the day, claiming the forest tile and securing the border, at which point the swordsmen get terribly insecure and annoyed at the pikemen for high fiving eachother and taking all the glory.

Fear not swordsmen, I know who did the heavy lifting!

Lemmy you didnt quite answer the question that interests the most people on this forum: how organic does the map feel?

Just as I start moving my archers up to the north west support the front line (I wish I had money to upgrade!) I notice some sneaky spearmen sneaksing through the forest toward the south.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/war2.jpg

KABLAMMO!

Lemmy you didnt quite answer the question that interests the most people on this forum: how organic does the map feel?

It's like looking out of a plane window or sommat. ;D

I included that with hexes. Looks and feels and plays awesome. With terrain costs and hex movement it makes a heap load more sense and is more intuitive. Looks lurvely too but then I've only seen a bit of the world so far because of my piddling exploration skills.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/waterdisaster.jpg

That sneaky moustachioed rascal! Embarks them across toward my capital. It's a good job he's alon--oh wait archers and more spearmen.

This war is going well.

epic thread! That Bismark sounds like one grouchy fellow.

My city defences still don't quite finish those spearmen off, but hopefully their capacity for hurt has been diminished since I broken all their bits off.

Through the power of roads my bowmen return to the scene.

The German spearmen are in the hilly woods. No point in attacking those, my pikemen will get mauled (I realise at this point that's where I SHOULD BE STOOD). And those enemy archers will be able to shoot at them where they're stood.... PULL BACK TO THE CITY, MEN!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/war3.jpg

If I can tempt the spearmen out of the woods I'll have a shot at whacking them, but of course risk my horseys getting pillaged with no workers left.

I do good war, me.

I only was able to play a few hours earlier... very different feel to this game, but I really like it so far.

Some questions...

1. Am I not able to see how many health points a military unit has, I believe out of ten?

2. How big is a city likely to expand? How far should I be placing each city apart? Do I not need to worry as much about building on rivers because you can build farms anyway?

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/embark2.jpg

The spearmen retreat and the archers decide to embark. What they didn't see is my two bowmen returning to the action. BAM!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/nicetry.jpg

Along with city bombardment I rip them apart.

I think Bismark needs to abandon his attack plan on this area, it's too heavily defended.

I'll try suggesting it to h--
http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/nevermind.jpg
oh never mind...

In other news I'm beaten to the Hagia Sophia. Damn.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/newcit.jpg

Bismark settles right near my borders. This means war! Oh wait, I forgot....

I continue my defence against his spearmen, who keeps sloping off to heal. It may be my imagination, but since you get a small amount of XP for being attacked, is he just farming XP off my city bombardments then going off to heal?

Also notice that my civs are all whinging again. Babylonians are miserable sods. Oh and I FINALLY researched sailing.

I'm starting to notice the numbers of German units increasing, starting to panic a bit...

Enjoying the walkthrough! Bismark looks a bit scary, though ;)
Just curious how many turns (or what year) you're in?

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/argh1.jpg

Argh! Where did they come from?

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/argh2.jpg

My archers! He's broken through!

Enjoying the walkthrough! Bismark looks a bit scary, though ;)
Just curious how many turns (or what year) you're in?

1650 - or approximately 10 years before the historic collapse of the Babylonian Empire.

They'll go out like they came in. Frowning.

Just when things look bleak, my improved economy (banks were built a few turns ago) means that I can upgrade the pikemen to riflemen!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/ohyes.jpg

Weee, they swap tiles with the poorly swordsmen and the German spearmen snort derisively. "What are these strange contraptions?" They snigger.

"My husband was killed by an exploding stick, you say?" wept the German widow.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/boomstick.jpg

I suspect this war is won now, to be honest. I upgrade my second pikeman to a rifleman back at Akkad.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/peace2.jpg

Bismark agrees to peace. It will be short-lived however, as as soon as I sort out my stupid miserable empire I'm coming back for you!

I'm researching Astronomy. Not long before I can go and see what mayhem is going on in Europe!

Awesome thread, you've made my workday bearable! :)

I'll admit to laughing way more than I should have at Bismarck's reaction to Riflemen. :D

I love you Civ 5!

Lovely tactile production queue controls! I can just move things up and down the list, so can swap and change between two production projects as often as I like instead of all the confusing, restrictive (and sometimes disasterous) shift/alt clicking combinations that led me to delete many a nearly completed wonder over the years.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/loveyou.jpg

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/voyage.jpg

Exciting times! The voyage of the damned, probably.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/rome.jpg

Your name isn't Ghandi by any chance? No?

Bugger.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/mont.jpg

It slowly dawns on the captain that setting sail may not have been a sound plan after all.

Ave, Caesar!

Keep it coming, my favorite thread of the day so far.

I stopped lurking and registered specifically to state that this thread has been greatly entertaining during my work day. Thank you, sir.

Within two turns of meeting them, Caesar asks me to go to war with Monty. Politics!

I always knew where I stood with Bismark, we were either at war or nearly at war, or just having had a war. Feeling nostalgic I go and say hello to my old friend.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/insult.jpg

Perhaps I'll give this Montezuma guy a second chance...

Montezuma asks me to enter a Pact of Secrecy against Caesar. Immediately afterward Caesar asks me to enter a Pact of Secrecy against Montezuma.

Man, they do like to bicker over here in Europe.

I say yes to them both. I suspect this is 'clever' somehow.

I have to say I'm not to impressed with Europe, they all seem to be militaristic nutters.... I hope whoever I meet next is a friendly, down-to-earth fellow....

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/egypt.jpg

This is very entertaining, thanks! It inspired me to wipe out Bismark in my demo game!

Look! There's some war happening over there! No wonder everyone here seems so grumpy.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/warhappening.jpg

My astute geography skills tell me that sailing into the Baltic Sea is going to get me nowhere. I should head down the coast of Africa see what's happening down there. With any luck I can meet another militaristic civ.

It'd be so awesome if there were two civs warring in Australia.

Finally I meet Suleiman. Something about him makes me want to give him a big hug.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/hug.jpg

I can't find the hug option, so I ask him for a pact of cooperation instead.

He declines, but he sounds sad about it so I'll let him off.

They like their secrecy over here. I'm asked to be in a secrecy pact with Suleiman. Turns out he doesn't like Montezuma either.

I say yes. I like secrets too!

I wonder who's winning? now I've met more people I should check.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/oh.jpg

Oh.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/nap.jpg

...

It'd be so awesome if there were two civs warring in Australia.

Likely given the civs in this game... ;D

whats up with the titles. Why are napoleon and suleiman pious and montezuma a consul :confused:

What social policy branches they picked.

Dynamic titles, I suspect. Depends on the civics or whatever 2K has renamed 'em. If only they could put in dynamic civ names, too. :(

While I've been exploring the world I wasn't really paying much attention to Bismark. He's been busy back home....

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/germanspread.jpg

Uh oh.

^immigrate to the old world and maybe you will live

Yikes. That world map's a little... weird. ._.

It's only on standard. I'm sure the larger maps will have a ton more definition.

I hope so! Polygons scare me.

Great thread, really enjoying reading this :goodjob:

Thanks for the thread. I can't wait till work is done, I'm gonna be half asleep tomorrow I bet.

Thanks everyone! :)

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/darth.jpg

At this stage I'm supposing that Unmet Player is probably Darth Vader knowing my luck.

It turns out apparently I'm the 'go to fur guy'. You want furs? you go to Nebuchadnezzer. He's got loads.

Trading them I've managed to get my happiness to an unprecedented 11. There is hope for my civ yet!

Barring some sort of psychotic bear attack. Or GDRs. Or bears operating GDRs.

I quite fancy her.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/fancy.jpg

She's going to be my bestest ally.

Wu Zetian wants to get all secretive about Suleiman. Noooo! Typical my two favourites wouldn't get along. :'(

EDIT: Oh yes. I'm now 'cooperating' with Wu Zetian. Think I have a chance with her?

I build the Sistine Chapel, netting me 33% more of my culture per turn. Now I'm making 10! I really should build some temples or something....

Now my fortunes are changing, my thoughts go back to Bismark. We have unfinished business!

Barring some sort of psychotic bear attack. Or GDRs. Or bears operating GDRs.

Its times like these when it makes me sad that i have no photoshop skillz

Oof... looks like you've been having a rough time of it.

I'm about to abandon my first game. I started as Greece and wound up in tundra... TUNDRA! WTH...where is the map editor when I need it! How the heck am I supposed to grow when I'm eating frozen potatoes!

So that's what a golden age looks like! Weeee!

I'm really off my game here. I just realised I've spent the entire time since the war with Germany without any workers.

This thread is great for when I'm waiting for the demo to dl so I can see if my computer actually will run this thing.

I'm really off my game here. I just realised I've spent the entire time since the war with Germany without any workers.

I was wondering why you did not mention building new ones

You should really use that rifle advantage and stick it in the Chancellor's face. Why you've sat on it so long trying to build useless wonders I don't know...

Yikes!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/crumbs.jpg

No more Egypt!

Meanwhile I build up my forces near the German border:

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/buildup.jpg

It's 1946. How far we've come. Time for you to die, Bismark! (When my artillery are built)

You should really use that rifle advantage and stick it in the Chancellor's face. Why you've sat on it so long trying to build useless wonders I don't know...

My economy was trashed, I couldn't afford the army or new buildings for that matter. Wonders don't cost anything to maintain.

Now I'm managing to build up though.

Time to take out the German trash!

I think you mixed up the first screenie in your last post with the one you meant to put. I think I've seen that one in a different post.

I pop in here very often to see the goings on, but have not logged in with my profile since 2005. For this one, however, I had to dig up my old password and make it official - epic thread! I have been LMAO all day reading the exploits! Kudos to the OP.

Now I just have to wait for my new i7 PC to ship so I can purchase my copy. It will be a long week... :sad:

I just discovered that my PC can't run the Civ5 demo. I have a sad. :< The family doesn't seem to agree with me that this crappy used 2003 computer is getting old and perhaps warrants a replacement.

I think you mixed up the first screenie in your last post with the one you meant to put. I think I've seen that one in a different post.

Thanks :)

I pop in here very often to see the goings on, but have not logged in with my profile since 2005. For this one, however, I had to dig up my old password and make it official - epic thread! I have been LMAO all day reading the exploits! Kudos to the OP.

Hurrah! I appreciate it! :)

I just discovered that my PC can't run the Civ5 demo.

:'(

lemmy, did you play Civ4 games this quickly?

I hear on the grapevine that the Ottomans and Rome lose their capitals. Hopefully I can add Germany to the list.

Nothing personal, Bismark.

No wait. It's entirely personal.

4 turns till war!

Germain troops nervously rearrange themselves at the other side of the borders. They know what's coming.

2 turns....

Holy c**p!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/napwar.jpg

I seem to remember all these places being Roman before... Napoleon's been busy!

One turn till war!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/cryriver.jpg

Boo hoo! As a show of good faith I've sent him a coach load of violin players.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/shieldsmissiles.jpg

Bismark obviously missed the meeting where it was explained how effective shields are at deflecting missiles.

I mop up the remaining German spearmen with my infantry and then...

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/workersreturned.jpg

zoink. I'll have those workers back thank you!

I dress them up all modern like and send them whistling away.

Who's puny now? EH? EH?

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/ouchy.jpg

Thank heavens no one's built the RSPCA wonder yet.

Bismark obviously missed the meeting where it was explained how effective shields are at deflecting missiles.

What did your city shoot at them with? And how could you tell?

Demo dl'ed for me, moment of truth! :)

OT, time to show Bismarck the power of teching :D

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/thiswillhurt.jpg

Several spearmen jump out of the fog of war. Oh dear. My brain can't quite compute how this will go down, given spearmen kick mounted ass. But mounted with rifles....?

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/painful.jpg

Ouch. Still. They survived!

What did your city shoot at them with? And how could you tell?

It's just the default ranged bombard ability of the city. It obviously changes visually as you move up the eras.

I've used the quick heal promotion on my horseys. Muhahaha

Then for fun I decide to accidently swap my artillery I spent so long making with a front line infantry, putting the artillery in a top safe location.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/artil.jpg

This will go well.

(Slightly frustrating, it's not the first time this has happened. Perhaps better to move with keypad and not holding right mouse button as if you let go in the wrong place above another unit with moves, this is what happens.)

I really wasn't paying attention to Akkad:

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/akkadattention.jpg

(Slightly frustrating, it's not the first time this has happened. Perhaps better to move with keypad and not holding right mouse button as if you let go in the wrong place above another unit with moves, this is what happens.)I found that turning on the hex grid helps, since it makes you a bit more aware of the centre of the tiles... which you don't want to hit.

Also: Excellet thread, fun to follow! :)

Cheers, LT.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/cap.jpg

Hey Bismark, remember when Dussledorf was yours?

Look at those little puppet strings. I have my first puppet state! Hurrah!

Also my artillery did this to Essen with one barrage:

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/essen.jpg

I'm looking forward to Bismark coming begging for peace. All he has to do is take back the 'puny' comment. I doubt he will though, it'll probably not be in the diplomacy screen.

Thanks a ton for taking us along in your first game of Civilization V. I could be playing the demo right now, but I'd much rather follow your epic Babylonian endeavour for world domination.

Nice work on the front lines, but watch your back.

Global happiness works awesome. I just got into negative happiness and it crippled my entire civ. Looking around for luxuries in a panic. I never ever looked around for luxury resources in a panic before. It's certainly not a dumbed down move, as while accomplishing the same goal (population limiting) they've made it integral to the core game-play and something of a crisis that needs resolving, instead of happiness just something that'll allow your cities to get slightly bigger before they reach the inevitable cap.

Yeah man I noticed this right away. I think the global happiness is a really good change. I can take one look up top, see if I will get in trouble soon. I also ignored happiness for a while and I payed the price.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/beep.jpg

Beep beep! Great General incoming!

That must mean I'm warring good!

Not that I really need the bonus of a Great General to wipe up these barbarians!

So I've pulled back my cavalry to the north to heal, they got kinda pummelled by city defences and spearmen.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/essen.jpg

Also, Essen is mine!

My empire is looking a lot healthier. Still, a long way to Berlin!


http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/empire.jpg

thanks alot for making this thread, i can honestly say that it makes time pass that much faster.

just one question: do garrisoned unit reduce unhappiness in conquered cities???

This is what happens to sneaky archers who try and be sneaky.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/archerow.jpg

Shhhhhppppccckapploooooom!

Meanwhile, a ton of world events happen, like wars breaking out and people asking me to go to war with other people. I kinda zone them out. I'm only interested in Bismark.

thanks alot for making this thread, i can honestly say that it makes time pass that much faster.

just one question: do garrisoned unit reduce unhappiness in conquered cities???

Not sure, don't think so...

Perhaps I should be paying more attention to the wider world around me. What you up to, China, with your mental score?

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/chinawin.jpg

The siege of Stuttgard begins

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/stut.jpg

Is Bismark behind the average in techs or are you just that far ahead? I realize you had to sacrifice a lot to get where you are, but infantry vs. pikes and spears is quite a lot!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/seigeends.jpg

The siege of Stuttgard ends.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/troopsneed.jpg

We need more troops to the south! Argh!

The siege of Stuttgard begins

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/stut.jpg

Wow, looks like the AI isn't great at city placement. I hope you're not keeping that one.

EDIT: I posted that before you posted to show you indeed did keep it >.>

Are you making friends with the city states, or ignoring them? In my all too brief demo I tried, but it seemed like they dropped out of friendship really fast. You basically have to keep giving them money, or drop everything to do their requests asap. The latter doesnt seem to be feasable since they dont seem to give you enough time to actually do what they ask. Giving them money every few turns doesnt work either, not enough cash in the first 100 turns!

Who's that I see in the land down under?

Is Bismark behind the average in techs or are you just that far ahead? I realize you had to sacrifice a lot to get where you are, but infantry vs. pikes and spears is quite a lot!

The peoples in Europe are all in the industrial era minimum. China has plenty of infantry and whatnot knocking about. I just lucked out with derpy dumb Bismark I think. Check out the scores.... (considering Caeser and Suleiman have lost most of their cities)

Woah, you're playing fast.





Your game's past the 20th century and Bismark is still using pikemen???

Are you making friends with the city states, or ignoring them? In my all too brief demo I tried, but it seemed like they dropped out of friendship really fast. You basically have to keep giving them money, or drop everything to do their requests asap. The latter doesnt seem to be feasable since they dont seem to give you enough time to actually do what they ask. Giving them money every few turns doesnt work either, not enough cash in the first 100 turns!

Yeah. You need patronage to even start thinking of being pally with City States I think... Sadly my peoples are culturally backwards and we're not exactly inundated with social policies, so I've just ignored them.

Woah, you're playing fast.

Your game's past the 20th century and Bismark is still using pikemen???

I think he's a bit thick, tbh.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/aus.jpg

A city state seems to have the run of Ausland, for now...

Yeah I'm playing on Quick, purely because I want to see the end in a reasonable amount of time, and since I wanted to do this thread it would take forever to do a normal / marathon / epic game.

The peoples in Europe are all in the industrial era minimum. China has plenty of infantry and whatnot knocking about. I just lucked out with derpy dumb Bismark I think. Check out the scores.... (considering Caeser and Suleiman have lost most of their cities)

OK, that's a relief. I was worried about the complaints that Babylon was unbalanced. Seems pretty reasonable to me (although you'd probably have been eliminated if it weren't for Babylon at this point :p ). What's up with Bismark, though? Bad city locations? Bad game decisions? Just has some kind of science phobia?

God knows. I too was slightly concerned until I got over the Atlantic and discovered the rest of them were normals.

Great read sir, I registered just for you.

I make a formal request.

Nukes.

The target is of little concern to me.

I've heard that map trading isn't allowed. Are there any techs that allow you to see through the fog of war? It seems strange to be in the 20th century with half the globe hidden. Thanks for doing this! Been following all day.

Bismark proves that the stereotype of the German sense of humour is total nonsense by telling a hilariously funny joke.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/bisjoke.jpg

Second on the NUKE request. :)

I'll keep Bismark around just for that. :D

re: Map trading, nope. Not that I can see anyway. Perhaps satellite?

lol!! does your treasury say -130 gold per turn?!?

Get with the times, Bismark! Even Belgrade have got riflemen!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/belgrade.jpg

lol!! does your treasury say -130 gold per turn?!?

-3.

-130 is his treasury... I'm starting to feel sorry for him now.

One thing I've learnt is that artillery is pretty useless in widely forested areas. Not sure when I can get the indirect fire promotion, but since I can't fire promotions are unlikely to be coming any time soon.

World News: Rome is no more! Bye bye Caesar, nice knowing you.

Cologne is mine!

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/cologne.jpg

OMG, this is the most entertaining thing I've read all day! Kudos to you Lemmy :)! I must say that you're assuaging a *lot* of my previous concerns about the game. Whatever my thoughts on some of the mechanics, it definitely does *not* sound dumbed down! I reckon I'll enjoy playing this game side-by-side with Civ4 for many years to come :)!

Aussie.

Frigates docked in cities are awesome. I rush built one in Akkad to deal with the hordes and they tear through units with their ranged attack.

Yikes. That Frigate has totally fubarred my unit maintenance. Not sure how it works yet but I'm at -53 now. I think it must have pushed me over some support limit or something...

Thanks for this. It makes the wait a bit less painful for those of us who can't play right now.

Just a guess, but are you short on iron at all? I've heard iron units would cost more in upkeep if you are. Aside from that, no guesses. Was it a dramatic shift in support costs?

Cheers for all the kind words everyone. If I don't thank anyone personally for saying lovely things it's just because otherwise I would be breaking up the commentary too much, but they're all appreciated. :)

Do you mind sharing what the Babylon bonuses are?

I can't find this information on the internets, despite trying various creative queries on google.

I want to see what I am missing, as I bought the regular edition on steam, and am already regretting not shelling out the extra $10 :/

My money is in real bad shape. Perhaps it's because of the siege of Akkad. Bismark's concentrating all his units at that one city. I'm mopping up the rest but my citizens can't work the tiles his units are stood on.

Do you mind sharing what the Babylon bonuses are?

I can't find this information on the internets, despite trying various creative queries on google.

I want to see what I am missing, as I bought the regular edition on steam, and am already regretting not shelling out the extra $10 :/

Free Great Scientist when discovering Writing.

50% time to generate a Great Scientist.

<3

Do you mind sharing what the Babylon bonuses are?

I can't find this information on the internets, despite trying various creative queries on google.

I want to see what I am missing, as I bought the regular edition on steam, and am already regretting not shelling out the extra $10 :/

Info (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=380875)

I'm hoping it'll be DLC, but they wait awhile (probably c. 2 months). I still haven't bought the game and I'll probably pay for Babylon, so I'd feel cheated if it comes up at a discounted price in just a couple of days. If it's any consolation, I'd imagine other DLC will come up soon as well, so then everybody will have something they might want.

I figured it out. It's because I've captured like 10 of his workers and 5 of his settlers during this war.

I've gone from one worker to about 15.

Hanover, mine...
Frankfurt, mine...

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/conquer.jpg

Can you still disband settlers and workers in your cities for +1 population? I don't remember if that worked in Civ IV, but it definately was in Civ II.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/conquer3.jpg

Hamburg and Dortmund fall to the awesome power of the Babylonians!

Not bad for a PUNY CIV, EH BISMARK?

Teehee!

Never mind - apparently disbanding workers and settlers didn't do anything in Civ IV, that only worked in Civ III and previous.

God, artillery are SO satisfying to use.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/germcap.jpg

Awwww....


http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/mapafterwar.jpg

I think I'll call it a day with this war. I need Bismark around to test my nukes on, after all!

So after the war I now have 9 lovely puppet states!

I have 10 happiness since I stole all Bismarks luxuries. Poor old fella.

I disband a bunch of my lowest promoted units till I'm out of the red. Positive money AND happiness. What parallel universe is this?

So what I'm gonna do now is trade for some more luxuries, get a nice buffer, then annex the cities one by one building a courthouse in each, until this is all completely mine!

Then I may just deal with those city state blemishes in the middle of my empire!

(Power corrupts)

yay nukes! :D

I figured it out. It's because I've captured like 10 of his workers and 5 of his settlers during this war.

I've gone from one worker to about 15.

Settlers and Workers entail maintenance?

From where I'm sitting great person improvements seem to be a bust. There were thoughts before that they could be useful, but with a great scientist popping ANY tech (as opposed to putting a little under 2k into it) AND the fact that the improvement removes jungle and potentially covers undiscovered resources it's just an untenable improvement. I expect a patch to make these STACK with regular improvements (OR become buildings with the same benefits).

Exactly, the thing is, great inventors (or whatever they are called) dont auto-pop ANY building either, they put a specific ammount of hammers towards the construction.
There's no reason the great scientists shouldnt do the same.

As it is now they seem a bit op (i dont know yet).
If inventors cant insta-pop any building or wonder, why should scientists be able to?

Settlers and Workers entail maintenance?

Yep. (Workers at least)

I assume they do anyway, I disbanded a bunch and I was less in the red.

I guess my main problem is just that i really REALLY dislike the idea of "slingshotting" techs like that in a Civ game..
They have always had realism take a back seat in favor of gameplay, sure. But...
Having a catapult-civ slingshot to cannons in a single or 3 turns? That has no place in Civilization.
Then we might as well have random ufo-lands-and-hands-you-a-plasma-cannon events :P

I <3 the Great Proph / Oracle slingshots on Civ 4. They were OP though since they relied on a wonder which can only go to one player.

At least this is an even field. As I said before I went through about 2000 years of being completely underdefended and miserable because of it. If I had anyone else but Bismark next to me this thread would have ended 8 pages ago.

Yeah, the Oracle was ok, since you had to build a wonder, and you can only get 1 tech, but this a bit silly. The should make GP just add X research points to the next tech, which would be enough to get all low level techs but only a fraction of modern techs.

On the other hand, it makes for a fun game to read about. I can't wait to hear the next tibit of news...

I think it all evens out. I could have used all those great scientists for golden ages and improvements.

Golden ages in this are bloody good. I never bothered with them in Civ 4 but in Civ 5 your production and treasury ROCKETS up.

Let's put it this way for all the 'advantage' they gave me, all the other civs have caught up on tech and a few have double my score.

It's 1995 and I'm not even close to any victory, so I'd debate how much it's helped me except in fighting someone with a really crap tech level.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/demo.jpg

See? Not even first on tech any more.

I've probably not gotten across how well the Europeans are doing, and how much of an anomaly it turns out Bismark was. ;D

Not bad for a PUNY CIV, EH BISMARK?

Didn't Bismark say that a couple of thousand years ago? Remind me not to get on your bad side! :)

You're on the way to harnessing the power of a continent unless someone abroad takes offense! Do you have any spare assets you could use to bribe some of these foreign powers to fight each other?

Thanks for taking the time to post all this, it's a great read and enlightening (I am in UK and preloaded, and object to downloading a second lot of 4.4Gb for the demo for a couple of days!)

Has it ever occured to you that it wouldn't have mattered who was next to you? Bismarck is losing because he didn't play his cards right. It coulda happened to anyone..

I had more fun reading this than going through the tutorials.

Has it ever occured to you that it wouldn't have mattered who was next to you? Bismarck is losing because he didn't play his cards right. It coulda happened to anyone..

Oh yeah for sure. I'm pretty sure in another game Bismark would perhaps be the leader, but for whatever reason in these history books he was a big big silly.

Oh that's right, teching is based off population mainly now. Probably why China with its huge population is ahead in the tech game (I'm assuming, based off score, that China is the one with the 13 million population, and also the first in tech)

yeah and by stuffing all my citizens into libraries for all the early years to get some scientists, I pretty much screwed my population over and stunted my growth from then on in. I got the tech lead to get Riflemen, but I neglected my economy so much that it was about another 500 years before I managed to pull my economy out the gutter enough to actually be able to support a rifleman army. :D

And yup, that be China with green on the demographics.

Heh, I think I am gonna win mine when I get back to it. But mines no normal speed so 250 turns to go. Washington is technically the leader, but I'm better at battle then he is. So even though I am a few turns behind him on bringing out new military techs I'm 4 turns from upgrading all my xbows and knights to riflemen. Then There won't be anyone left to kill but the Iroquois. Who ironically enough, had the Americas all to themselves....well them and a few city states, but I believe they have conquered several of those over there.

**edit: and your right Babylon is insane for teching if you do it right. Washington is only ahead of me cause the bugger has tons of gold and kept doing tech pacts with people....I need to work on my gold side of the economy more I guess.

I have enjoyed reading this a lot. Enough to have my account details emailed to me so I could log in and post to say so. Also, this has convinced me to buy Civ5 when it comes out here on Friday, despite my graphics card being only an 8600M GT. It seems that folks are getting the game to run on 8200M GS, so I'll give it a go.

I think this may end up being my favorite iteration of Civ based on what I've read here. Civ4 was sort of like the ultimate version of what the game had been up to then, so I'm glad they've tried something a bit different here. 1UPT and hexes seem great, and the removal of the science slider seems like a masterstroke as well. There is nothing strategic about the slider when having it as high as you can afford is nearly always the dominant choice. Stuff like that just makes the game look more strategic. It looks like they've trimmed that kind of fat, and upped the focus on what is left. I can really say that I can't wait, whereas just a couple of days ago CiV was barely on my radar - it was all Fallout: NV.

Hay lemmy, great thread! :)

What comp do you have and is the game smooth? I have a core 2 duo and it suggests a quad core for recommended gameplay... so I'm a little concerned about that aspect of it.

Some thoughts so far:

War - The 1UPT is great. The hexes are great. The difference is amazing and it makes me look forward to wars instead of them feeling like a necessary burden. In Civ 4 I avoided war unless I really really had to. I never played the militaristic game purely because it wasn't as fun as the peacetime activities, and I begrudged having to divert all my cities to producing units when they could be building lovely empire improving buildings or wonders.

This time round it feels like the combat aspects of the game are woven into everything, just as money, science and everything else. Even when at peace I'd see Bismark's troops milling about on my borders, lining up, rearranging themselves. Snooping close to my cities then running off. I felt like he was scouting me out, looking at what troops I had on show. I'd send up a few units as a show of force, and he'd back off and dissapear into the fog of war. I can't begin to describe what a difference this makes. It makes the old stacks of doom seem ridiculous now. Don't get me wrong, I loved Civ 4 more than any other game in existence, but this is just so many steps forward it's crazy.

Yet it still feels like Civ, the march forward toward their cities, holding back to heal after conquering a city. It all feels reminicent but so much better.

Hexes too. It feels so natural, when you're on a thin one tile width stretch of land, either between water or mountains (in my case water) it feels like a tangable strip of defensible land, and before long you forget about hexes all together and the terrain just works as you would expect. Marvelous.

The combat alone is enough to justify this game's place in Civ history, even if the rest of it was dumbed down or not as good. But I really don't feel it is.

Maintenance - I love the changes here, despite it being one of the things cited as being dumbed down. Too much of my Civ 4 time was spent worrying about distances to my capital and oversea colonies being crazy expensive, yet I would just build whatever buildings I liked in every city. That's a library, uni, observ, lab (regardless of if it's my science city) a market, bank, a barracks. By the end of the game I'd be building units purely because I'd literally built everything else. That's stupid if you think about it because surely what buildings you build in each city should trump city placement in terms of strategy, since it's something you do 10-20-30-40x more often.

This way I can place cities where I like, which is liberating and fun, while I'm instead torn by what I should build in those cities, or even if I should build anything at all. Often I put them to build science or wealth, not because I needed it (wealth building seems a little lame in this tbh) but because I simply could not afford anything. Just one more granary, or one more rifleman, would push me into defecit and I would risk losing my units and suffer a massive science penalty. In terms of the carrot and the stick this was a big stick making me carefully consider every time I made a building. This made a huge difference to how much satisfaction I got out of city build strategy.

Interesting is how this impacts wonder building. It makes them more of a viable punt. After all, a wonder doesn't cost maintenence. So if my economy is screwed, and I can't afford a building or unit, then building a wonder is a good option, since if I lose out to a rival I get some money, and after all I shouldn't have been building anything else anyway.

I should add that a lot of these realisations come from the challenge I faced. I imagine if I played on Warlord or Chieftain I may not have appreciated this, since I'd likely have not had to make the painful agonizing choices of what or if to build.

Global happiness / health removed - Another victim in the 'dumbing down' argument. Did we really need two independent city growth limiting factors? Three if you include food? Both happiness and health behaved identically and required the same solutions to fix (albeit different buildings)? So health is gone, we have one limiting factor of growth, happiness, and it has been made global. This has not been simplified. They have turned something that was a soft and unobtrusive cap on population growth of one city and turned it into an empire wide calamity. Now happiness matters massively. Also losing out on the golden ages sucks because golden ages in this are awesome.

Slider removal - Contending for the best change in this game. I had no problem with the sliders in Civ 4. Never thought twice about it. Never even imagined there was another way. But I'm convinced now that they should stay gone forever. In this game I was on negative money for a long time. My science was still good because of my library dudes, but I was just in a money pit and had a real hard time climbing out. In Civ 4 I would have pressed the - button one or two times and just coped with slightly less science for a while, and thought nothing of it. My economy would have been sub-par, but I could have just trundled on happily taking an extra turn or two to research techs.

In this it was a massive factor in the game play. A huge one. I also had happiness problems, and no access to luxuries. I could have solved the happiness problems easily. Just build a couple of Colosseums. Except I simply couldn't. I couldn't afford them. I was just managing to avoid having my troops all disbanded when I needed them the most, so it forced me to address my economy problems as a matter of urgency. Once I sorted them out I didn't just get one turn faster techs, I was finally able to grow my cities, support an army, and build useful buildings.

None of these challenges would have been present if that slider was there.

Also my culture sucked throughout. Imagine I could just set culture to 100% for a few turns every so often? In retrospect it seems cheap and lame.

In all this, please don't think I'm dissing Civ 4. I loved that game so much I can barely describe. But this game is better. Of course other people may feel differently, but feel my experiences so far, which I have recounted somewhat, show that the changes and apparent simplifications and dumbing downs have actually deepened the gameplay in unexpected ways, so while on a checklist you may be able to count X less 'features' and 'gameplay system's the overall strategy is deeper than ever.

Further more I feel this is a much more focused and solid base for mods to be built onto. Civ 4 had so many game systems to deal with that inclusion of a new one in a mod started to get a bit heavy. I'm excited about how mods will extend the game, not to mention expansions.

That is all. Will say more as I continue with this game, which is far from over! Glad you've all enjoyed!

lemmy

EDIT: It occurs to me I didn't even remember to write up about the removal of religion, which I guess shows how much I care. And I loved religion in Civ 4.

I just spent nearly half an hour reading through all of this thread (instead of studying for an Econ test tomorrow). Thanks TC, it was a great read :)

Some thoughts so far:

War - The 1UPT is great. The hexes are great. The difference is amazing and it makes me look forward to wars instead of them feeling like a necessary burden. In Civ 4 I avoided war unless I really really had to. I never played the militaristic game purely because it wasn't as fun as the peacetime activities, and I begrudged having to divert all my cities to producing units when they could be building lovely empire improving buildings or wonders.

This time round it feels like the combat aspects of the game are woven into everything, just as money, science and everything else. Even when at peace I'd see Bismark's troops milling about on my borders, lining up, rearranging themselves. Snooping close to my cities then running off. I felt like he was scouting me out, looking at what troops I had on show. I'd send up a few units as a show of force, and he'd back off and dissapear into the fog of war. I can't begin to describe what a difference this makes. It makes the old stacks of doom seem ridiculous now. Don't get me wrong, I loved Civ 4 more than any other game in existence, but this is just so many steps forward it's crazy.

Yet it still feels like Civ, the march forward toward their cities, holding back to heal after conquering a city. It all feels reminicent but so much better.

Hexes too. It feels so natural, when you're on a thin one tile width stretch of land, either between water or mountains (in my case water) it feels like a tangable strip of defensible land, and before long you forget about hexes all together and the terrain just works as you would expect. Marvelous.

The combat alone is enough to justify this game's place in Civ history, even if the rest of it was dumbed down or not as good. But I really don't feel it is.

Maintenance - I love the changes here, despite it being one of the things cited as being dumbed down. Too much of my Civ 4 time was spent worrying about distances to my capital and oversea colonies being crazy expensive, yet I would just build whatever buildings I liked in every city. That's a library in every city, a market, a barracks. By the end of the game I'd be building units purely because I'd literally built everything else. That's stupid if you think about it because surely what buildings you build in each city should trump city placement in terms of strategy, since it's something you do 10-20-30-40x more often.

This way I can place cities where I like, which is liberating and fun, while I'm instead torn by what I should build in those cities, or even if I should build anything at all. Often I put them to build science or wealth, not because I needed it (wealth building seems a little lame in this tbh) but because I simply could not afford anything. Just one more granary, or one more rifleman, would push me into defecit and I would risk losing my units and suffer a massive science penalty. In terms of the carrot and the stick this was a big stick making me carefully consider every time I made a building. This made a huge difference to how much satisfaction I got out of city build strategy.

Interesting is how this impacts wonder building. It makes them more of a viable punt. After all, a wonder doesn't cost maintenence. So if my economy is screwed, and I can't afford a building or unit, then building a wonder is a good option, since if I lose out to a rival I get some money, and after all I shouldn't have been building anything else anyway.

Global happiness / health removed - Another victim in the 'dumbing down' argument. Did we really need two independent city growth limiting factors? Three if you include food? Both happiness and health behaved identically and required the same solutions to fix (albeit different buildings)? So health is gone, we have one limiting factor of growth, happiness, and it has been made global. This has not been simplified. They have turned something that was a soft and unobtrusive cap on population growth of one city and turned it into an empire wide calamity. Now happiness matters massively. Also losing out on the golden ages sucks because golden ages in this are awesome.

Slider removal - Contending for the best change in this game. I had no problem with the sliders in Civ 4. Never thought twice about it. Never even imagined there was another way. But I'm convinced now that they should stay gone forever. In this game I was on negative money for a long time. My science was still good because of my library dudes, but I was just in a money pit and had a real hard time climbing out. In Civ 4 I would have pressed the - button one or two times and just coped with slightly less science for a while, and thought nothing of it. My economy would have been sub-par, but I could have just trundled on happily taking an extra turn or two to research techs.

In this it was a massive factor in the game play. A huge one. I also had happiness problems, and no access to luxuries. I could have solved the happiness problems easily. Just build a couple of Colosseums. Except I simply couldn't. I couldn't afford them. I was just managing to avoid having my troops all disbanded when I needed them the most, so it forced me to address my economy problems as a matter of urgency. Once I sorted them out I didn't just get one turn faster techs, I was finally able to grow my cities, support an army, and build useful buildings.

None of these challenges would have been present if that slider was there.

Also my culture sucked throughout. Imagine I could just set culture to 100% for a few turns every so often? In retrospect it seems cheap and lame.

In all this, please don't think I'm dissing Civ 4. I loved that game so much I can barely describe. But this game is better. Of course other people may feel differently, but feel my experiences so far, which I have recounted somewhat, show that the changes and apparent simplifications and dumbing downs have actually deepened the gameplay in unexpected ways, so while on a checklist you may be able to count X less 'features' and 'gameplay system's the overall strategy is deeper than ever.

That is all. Will say more as I continue with this game, which is far from over! Glad you've all enjoyed!

lemmy

EDIT: It occurs to me I didn't even remember to write up about the removal of religion, which I guess shows how much I care. And I loved religion in Civ 4.

I can see your point on most of the things you say there Lemmy, but I am still disappointed by the removal of Health. Yes they should have changed how each one worked-to avoid duplication of effects-but I think this could have been achieved!

Aussie.

I can't help but wonder what a REX + income generating strategy would result in with Civ 5. Lots of cities and lots of gold to build with to boot?

Hay lemmy, great thread! :)

What comp do you have and is the game smooth? I have a core 2 duo and it suggests a quad core for recommended gameplay... so I'm a little concerned about that aspect of it.

I think it may be a quad, it's certainly good enough I didn't need to worry about the specs....

but I also tried it on my laptop and it works on lower settings pretty solidly on there.

Processor : Intel i3-350M(2.26GHz) Mobile CPU
Graphics Card: 1GB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470

I'd be amazed if that was a quad core, but I have no idea tbh those numbers and letters confuse me.

I think the worst you'll prob have to worry about is having a lower number of civs / city states, or avoiding the bigger map sizes, rather than it not working at all. But who knows it may work perfectly.

A games journo mate of mine said it runs about 10x better in the late game than the review version he got given, so that's encouraging.

Thanks, lemmy101. This thread has sold me on the beauty of clouds; I like the change from black.

http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmyandbinky.com/civ/warhappening.jpg

It looks magical.

I think it may be a quad, it's certainly good enough I didn't need to worry about the specs....

but I also tried it on my laptop and it works on lower settings pretty solidly on there.

Processor : Intel i3-350M(2.26GHz) Mobile CPU
Graphics Card: 1GB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470

I'd be amazed if that was a quad core, but I have no idea tbh those numbers and letters confuse me.

I think the worst you'll prob have to worry about is having a lower number of civs / city states, or avoiding the bigger map sizes, rather than it not working at all. But who knows it may work perfectly.

A games journo mate of mine said it runs about 10x better in the late game than the review version he got given, so that's encouraging.

Dual core, with four threads.

This thread is fantastic. I'm currently doing my first playthrough with Rome. Learning from your..er... 'tactical deviances' (Happiness, rushing tech tree, etc.) has helped me a bit. Not to mention you seem to have the basics down, whereas, Im still struggling. Good for info, and quite entertaining. Thanks!

Dual core, with four threads.Hmmm, how does that compare with a Core 2 Duo E8500 @ 3.16GHz?

Hmmm, how does that compare with a Core 2 Duo E8500 @ 3.16GHz?

That sounds fine to me, tbh... a quad will obv help because it's designed to take advantage of multiple cores, but clocking 3.16Ghz is pretty good going regardless of the amount of cores.

Don't quote me on that, but it sounds perfectly fine for running this to me.

Hmmm, how does that compare with a Core 2 Duo E8500 @ 3.16GHz?

The Core 2 Duo E8500 has a faster clock speed and a larger cache (6mb vs 3mb), but only two threads.

I don't know how important 4 vs. 2 threads is for Civ5.

Cool thanks for the info.

Whew, back from my own Civilization V adventure that has eaten up all of my free time today. I must say I share many of the opinions you have about the virtues of Civ V. I've been making my own numerous shares of mistakes in my game as Rome, but luckily my economy's doing well (I'm a HUGE goldmonger, so that probably helps).

Words of advice to anyone who wants them: Don't auto your workers if you're expanding quickly. I did that and my capital was left almost barren while my workers traipsed off to the periphery of my empire.

DON'T FORGET ABOUT CULTURE. I didn't pay much attention to it and now in 130-ish AD I've got many different cities that are all small culturally.

Be wary of the small civilizations, the ones that only expand to about three cities. They may seem harmless, but Ramesess has been jacking wonders right out from under my nose. I'd conquer him right away if my army wasn't kind of screwy (entirely made out of melee troops with no siege or archery capability) and if he wasn't on the other side of the continent.

I'm enjoying the playthrough, lemmy. Can't wait to see how it all ends.

Almost 24000 views now!

Almost 24000 views now!A ton of them would be refreshes too rofl.

ive refreshed it dozens of times

I can see your point on most of the things you say there Lemmy, but I am still disappointed by the removal of Health. Yes they should have changed how each one worked-to avoid duplication of effects-but I think this could have been achieved!

Aussie.

I feel they could have made health individual city based and happiness the new global mechanic. But I'll admit that I only really care because I think Aqueducts should be in the game. I feel the game plays just fine without health. It's strategic enough without it. But I still feel it could work with the right combo of health buildings and a return of trading food resources for health.

Weee! That's a lot of views. Sadly I think that's me done for the evening. More tomorrow I'm sure. ;D

I really really hoped that there would be a thread like this when CiV came out in USA. I'm a sucky European who has to wait patiently for the release on Friday (actually it's good, because I have a lot of things to do in this week) and I hoped to get some insight view of the game and not some random review anymore where everybody states the same facts (1upt, hexagons, policies, no religion...) I already knew for some months.

So thumbs up lemmy! This is really the thread I hoped to read to bear with the waiting time.

I feel they could have made health individual city based and happiness the new global mechanic. But I'll admit that I only really care because I think Aqueducts should be in the game. I feel the game plays just fine without health. It's strategic enough without it. But I still feel it could work with the right combo of health buildings and a return of trading food resources for health.

I hope to try & bring the health mechanic back into the game via a mod.

Aussie.

Weee! That's a lot of views. Sadly I think that's me done for the evening. More tomorrow I'm sure. ;D

Another :goodjob: for this excellent thread, it has sold the game to me.

I'll be sure to tune in again tomorrow for the next episode. :)

Great thread! :) :) :)

great fun reading this! :goodjob:

Another 37 hours to go ... :(