View Full Version : Legions


Kael
Sep 21, 2010, 10:54 AM
http://kael.civfanatics.net/Legions/Title.jpg

Homepage: http://www.civfanatics.com/Legions

Download: Available from the Mod Browser in Civilization V

The_J
Sep 21, 2010, 11:39 AM
Question from here (http://www.civforum.de/showpost.php?p=3780503&postcount=2):

How does the stack battle work? Can you choose the target in the other stack yourself, or is it like in Civ4, the best defender is attacked?
Has the AI been changed?


And again, as usual probably: :goodjob:.

Le Sage
Sep 21, 2010, 11:42 AM
Blimey. I was wondering when the first stacking mod would appear, and as it seems, it was the first thing that happened.

Kael
Sep 21, 2010, 11:48 AM
Question from here (http://www.civforum.de/showpost.php?p=3780503&postcount=2):

And again, as usual probably: :goodjob:.

Yes, the best defender is selected. But, it is worth noting that this isn't a source code mod. The biggest handicap is that the UI doesn't compensate for the stacked units well. IN Civ5 you had icons for each of the units in a stack and mouseover help showing all the units in a plot you were examining. Those don't exist here.

So it isn't good for 20-30 units in a stack like Civ4 unit levels. But it is really nice for being able to have 4-5 units moving together without having to fight with stepping around each other.

The_J
Sep 21, 2010, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the answer :).

Quetz
Sep 21, 2010, 12:04 PM
Wow. Already??

Awesome, and great to see you're still at it, Kael XD

plasmacannon
Sep 21, 2010, 12:55 PM
I 2nd that.
You have a mod for a game that came out today?
How much effort have you put into this?
Of did you have a beta copy to work with earlier?

Lord Tirian
Sep 21, 2010, 01:32 PM
Of did you have a beta copy to work with earlier?Look in the manual... Kael (and most of the FfH2 team, plus various other modders, like Dale) was one of the playtesters. ;)

Cheers, LT.

TC01
Sep 21, 2010, 04:05 PM
I predicted the first mod posted on CFC would be something like this.

Even though I don't yet have Civ 5- :goodjob: Kael!

Dale
Sep 21, 2010, 04:43 PM
Look in the manual... Kael (and most of the FfH2 team, plus various other modders, like Dale) was one of the playtesters. ;)

Cheers, LT.

Yep, I've got a couple mods posted in the browser too if anyone's interested. :)

The_J
Sep 21, 2010, 04:52 PM
Get them posted here man ;).

Lord Tirian
Sep 21, 2010, 04:56 PM
Get them posted here man ;).Ditto, give us Europeans without CiV something to be envious of! ;)

Cheers, LT.

Dale
Sep 21, 2010, 04:59 PM
You'll find them posted at WePlayCiv. Come on, don't you know me at all? ;)

PS: Sorry Kael for filling your thread.

zeggy
Sep 21, 2010, 05:06 PM
Stack mod is whats needed straight up :p

Pickly
Sep 21, 2010, 06:28 PM
I wasn't considering getting civ 5 (since it lack things like religions.), but if more mods like this start coming out, I'll definitely have more interest. :)

Ajidica
Sep 21, 2010, 07:30 PM
Well, this has the distinction of being the very first mod for Civ5.
Maker of the best and most famous Civ4 mod, maker of the first Civ5 mod, and hopefully will repeat the sucess of FfH in a radicaly different format.

Dale
Sep 21, 2010, 07:38 PM
Well, this has the distinction of being the very first mod for Civ5.
Maker of the best and most famous Civ4 mod, maker of the first Civ5 mod, and hopefully will repeat the sucess of FfH in a radicaly different format.

There were lots of other mods created before release (the tutorial was the first Civ5 mod created, and then the PAX and E3 demo maps). And there were other mods on the hub before we could upload to it too. Kael was one cog (a valuable cog too) in the mod development circle.

He's the distinction of the first CFC mod for Civ5 though. ;)

Ajidica
Sep 21, 2010, 07:43 PM
:blush:
I haven't looked at the mod hub as I have only the demo. I guess that is what i get for wanting to wait for a patch or two before ordering it.

civ5crazy
Sep 21, 2010, 08:08 PM
awesome mods thanks feels much better now.

Quetz
Sep 21, 2010, 08:30 PM
Yep, I've got a couple mods posted in the browser too if anyone's interested. :)

Got those too.. sweet maps. Way to start off with a bang

Re Pickly: I'm sure religions will come in a mod, or an expansion.. I'm betting they left out some things to have good draws for the expansion packs. I can see it now, Civ 5: THE HOLY WARS

Jenaelha
Sep 21, 2010, 08:43 PM
Congrats on the first and successful mod.
Question, stacked? Does that mean what I think it means? You've brought stackable units to a game that does not stack units? I was worried about that CiV feature I'd read about (don't own yet), but worried no more. Can the AI stack too?
Thanks and again, well done Kael.

Baleur
Sep 21, 2010, 09:34 PM
I guess its awesome for peeps who want Civ4 combat again, i however do not :)

Kael
Sep 21, 2010, 10:28 PM
I guess its awesome for peeps who want Civ4 combat again, i however do not :)

Yeap, thats the beauty of modding. We can do things that appeal to different people. I love one unit per tile, I think it was a brilliant design decision. But a friend requested a mod with 1upt disabled so I made it.

The nice thing about modularity is that it works together with other mods. I always play Queen of Iceni, but sometimes I play with Legions enabled, and sometimes I dont. Just depends on my preference.

But I don't expect it to be everyones preference, pick what you like.

V. Soma
Sep 22, 2010, 02:28 AM
I repeat an above question: does the AI stack too? and cleverly?

TheGoldenMan
Sep 22, 2010, 02:41 AM
:thumbsdown:

Removal of 1UPT limit is bad.

1. Ruins all tactics of combat
2. Returns dumb SODs
3. Leads to memory leak and possible crashes.

no offense to the author, understand he did what other guys wanted...

jfby
Sep 22, 2010, 05:35 AM
Memory leaks? Can you post the source for this?

Kael
Sep 22, 2010, 07:11 AM
I repeat an above question: does the AI stack too? and cleverly?

Yes the AI stacks, and it is the AI so "cleverly" may be expecting to much.

:thumbsdown:

Removal of 1UPT limit is bad.

1. Ruins all tactics of combat
2. Returns dumb SODs
3. Leads to memory leak and possible crashes.

no offense to the author, understand he did what other guys wanted...

No stress, its just a mod, not an attempt to get Firaxis to remove 1upt or a claim that Firaxis was wrong to create 1upt (they weren't 1upt is awesome). It's just something fun to play with.

Memory leaks? Can you post the source for this?

There is no source for this, this is an XML only mod.

Tssha
Sep 22, 2010, 08:26 AM
There is no source for this, this is an XML only mod.
Really? This is really just an XML mod?

...holy crap. :eek2:

Well, that gives me hope for my own modding ambitions. :lol:

And may I just say, I'll probably never use this mod since I love 1 unit per tile (or hex, I should say). It should, however, make a nice base for anyone else who has a grand vision of a mod that relies on stacking units. For that, and because people have a recourse for reversing 1upt on day two and thus no longer need to complain about it, I am glad this mod exists.

Flinkebeinchen
Sep 22, 2010, 08:30 AM
Stacking units again, hmm. So can two or more Worker work on the same tile with this and degrade the build time?

frozenwings
Sep 22, 2010, 09:58 AM
I personally feel like stacking ruins the point of Civ5, but to each their own. That said, I really like the promotions. Is there any possible way you could release a version without the stacking/lower city HP, and just the promotion modifications? I've never modded Civ, so I have no idea how complicated it would be.

Kael
Sep 22, 2010, 11:15 AM
I personally feel like stacking ruins the point of Civ5, but to each their own. That said, I really like the promotions. Is there any possible way you could release a version without the stacking/lower city HP, and just the promotion modifications? I've never modded Civ, so I have no idea how complicated it would be.

I thought about that. I didn't feel like the promotions on their own were enough to justify a mod (though I do love hos in civ5 you can run multiple mods together so it makes creating smaller, more focused, mods a better idea). But I do like having more promotion options, especially at low levels, so I may be looking into a larger mod that rebuilds the entire promotion tree and would include these.

Erik_3E
Sep 22, 2010, 11:46 AM
I wasn't considering getting civ 5 (since it lack things like religions.), but if more mods like this start coming out, I'll definitely have more interest. :)

They said it wold be the most mod friendly CIV yett so I wold not be supriced if we did get something like that :D

EDIT:
@Kael
Oh and yea nice job, I will probably never use this mod but I think its a good thing to have if for example you ever gett tired/anoyed in the 1upt thingy.

Nice job m8! :)

Kruelgor
Sep 22, 2010, 11:51 AM
Yep, I've got a couple mods posted in the browser too if anyone's interested. :)

So there is actually content in the mod browser now? When I checked last night there was nothing.

good job guys!

Kael
Sep 22, 2010, 12:09 PM
So there is actually content in the mod browser now? When I checked last night there was nothing.

good job guys!

You may have been looking on the Installed tab. The interface isn't very intuitive, but if you click on the Online tab you can see all the available mods.

Erik_3E
Sep 22, 2010, 12:11 PM
Just had to ask, how easy/hard wold you estimate it is to expand the number of civs in a game will be?

Kael
Sep 22, 2010, 12:13 PM
Just had to ask, how easy/hard wold you estimate it is to expand the number of civs in a game will be?

What do you mean? Do you mean adding a new civ to the game (Queen of the Iceni adds the Celtic civ to the game)? Or do you mean placing more civs on the map (so that instead of starting with 10 civs on a large map you start with 15)?

Erik_3E
Sep 22, 2010, 12:18 PM
What do you mean? Do you mean adding a new civ to the game (Queen of the Iceni adds the Celtic civ to the game)? Or do you mean placing more civs on the map (so that instead of starting with 10 civs on a large map you start with 15)?

Yea like the 50 civs mod in CIV IV, more like for the futur as there isent that many civs yett :D

havent got the game yett so I have no idea how it works.

Kael
Sep 22, 2010, 01:54 PM
Yea like the 50 civs mod in CIV IV, more like for the futur as there isent that many civs yett :D

havent got the game yett so I have no idea how it works.

It's not that hard. Queen of the Iceni adds a new Civ. And since you can run multiple mods together in Civ5 you dont need a mod with 50 civs, you can run the 50 mods that add your favorite civs.

Erik_3E
Sep 22, 2010, 02:38 PM
So with your mod you culd start a game with 19 civs + the city states at max? :P

EmperorFool
Sep 22, 2010, 02:52 PM
And since you can run multiple mods together in Civ5 you dont need a mod with 50 civs, you can run the 50 mods that add your favorite civs.

I think Erik is speaking about the issue where the maximum number of civs in any one game (18) was compiled into the DLL.

Railgun
Sep 22, 2010, 03:00 PM
Kael, while I do not like the Stack of Doom features of this mod and the unit maintenance fix, I really, really like the promotions. Is there any way you can make a mod with only those please?

Kael
Sep 22, 2010, 03:12 PM
So with your mod you culd start a game with 19 civs + the city states at max? :P

I think Erik is speaking about the issue where the maximum number of civs in any one game (18) was compiled into the DLL.

I just started an unmodded game with 22 civilizations without a problem. I assume it just uses duplicate civ/leaders to do this. With Queen of the Iceni you would have one less duplicate civ/leader since it would have another leader to draw from.

Kael, while I do not like the Stack of Doom features of this mod and the unit maintenance fix, I really, really like the promotions. Is there any way you can make a mod with only those please?

You are the 2nd person to request that in this thread. And yes I am looking into releasing a promotion mod, but I'd like them to do more than the existing 7 so I will have to work on it a bit.

Pazyryk
Sep 22, 2010, 05:39 PM
Kael, just wondering: is it possible to mod out the 1 upt rule for "civilian" units only, but keep it for military units? (And what tag in what xml file did you modify to break the 1 upt rule anyway?)

Kael
Sep 22, 2010, 05:51 PM
Kael, just wondering: is it possible to mod out the 1 upt rule for "civilian" units only, but keep it for military units? (And what tag in what xml file did you modify to break the 1 upt rule anyway?)

<GameData>
<Defines>
<Update>
<Where Name="PLOT_UNIT_LIMIT"/>
<Set Value="999"/>
</Update>
<Update>
<Where Name="MAX_CITY_HIT_POINTS"/>
<Set Value="10"/>
</Update>
<Update>
<Where Name="UNIT_MAINTENANCE_GAME_MULTIPLIER"/>
<Set Value="6"/>
</Update>
</Defines>
</GameData>

Plot Unit Limit.

And no, without source code access I don't see way to isolate it just to non-military units (though I think thats a cool idea).

The_J
Sep 22, 2010, 06:42 PM
Looking at the XML i really wonder, why they did not use a DOM parser instead of this XML "rape" with a SAX parser (or someone did really not understand what he is doing).

EmperorFool
Sep 22, 2010, 07:06 PM
And What Is Firaxis's Fascination With Uppercase Words For Elements And Attributes In XML? :(

frozenwings
Sep 22, 2010, 08:45 PM
You are the 2nd person to request that in this thread. And yes I am looking into releasing a promotion mod, but I'd like them to do more than the existing 7 so I will have to work on it a bit.

Thanks for looking into this, Kael. I'll be keeping an eye out for it :)

jfby
Sep 23, 2010, 06:15 AM
Theoretically we could set the unit per tile limit to a given number? I would prefer this over 1 or unlimited.

Also can this be done per terrain, or is it a general setting?

Kael
Sep 23, 2010, 07:09 AM
Theoretically we could set the unit per tile limit to a given number? I would prefer this over 1 or unlimited.

Also can this be done per terrain, or is it a general setting?

There is no current way to have it applied by terrain or by unit type (I would take Pazyryk's suggestion and make a separate mod where non-military units were unlimited in a heartbeat if I could).

Iceciro
Sep 23, 2010, 07:14 AM
And no, without source code access I don't see way to isolate it just to non-military units (though I think thats a cool idea).

So the SDK doesn't come with the same DLL access we had for Civ 4? :confused:

Kael
Sep 23, 2010, 07:22 AM
So the SDK doesn't come with the same DLL access we had for Civ 4? :confused:

I don't have source code access. With Civ4 it was 6 months or so before source code was released. I believe (but this is just my guess) that Firaxis may want to wait until the code is reviewed and stable (meaning not going through changes) before releasing it.

Iceciro
Sep 23, 2010, 07:26 AM
That makes sense then. I came in at BTS modding. So we already had the DLL to toy with.

Kruelgor
Sep 23, 2010, 07:28 AM
Kael, are you using beta tools to upload these, or are you using some method which all of us have access to?

Soduka
Sep 23, 2010, 07:30 AM
I don't have source code access. With Civ4 it was 6 months or so before source code was released. I believe (but this is just my guess) that Firaxis may want to wait until the code is reviewed and stable (meaning not going through changes) before releasing it.

I couldn't find what is blocking the ability to raze city states and capitals, is that source code controlled?

Kael
Sep 23, 2010, 07:51 AM
Kael, are you using beta tools to upload these, or are you using some method which all of us have access to?

I am using beta tools. Hopefully they go public soon.

Kael
Sep 23, 2010, 07:58 AM
I couldn't find what is blocking the ability to raze city states and capitals, is that source code controlled?

From CityView.lua:

if (not pCity:IsOccupied() or pCity:IsRazing()) then
Controls.RazeCityButton:SetHide(true);
else
if (not pPlayer:CanRaze(pCity)) then
if (pPlayer:CanRaze(pCity, true)) then
Controls.RazeCityButton:SetHide(false);
Controls.RazeCityButton:SetDisabled(true);
Controls.RazeCityButton:SetToolTipString( Locale.ConvertTextKey( "TXT_KEY_CITYVIEW_RAZE_BUTTON_DISABLED_BECAUSE_CAPI TAL_TT" ) );
else
Controls.RazeCityButton:SetHide(true);
end
else
Controls.RazeCityButton:SetHide(false);
Controls.RazeCityButton:SetDisabled(false);
Controls.RazeCityButton:SetToolTipString( Locale.ConvertTextKey( "TXT_KEY_CITYVIEW_RAZE_BUTTON_TT" ) );
end
end

You would have to play with this to see if it works, but as I read it there is a source code function called CanRaze on Player objects. That function blocks the razing of capitals.

But it looks like the enforcement of that block happens in lua (where it hides the raze button). So you may be able to get away with just removing this section from Lua to allow capital razing. That assumes that when you click the action button it doesn't perform another source code check to make sure the city is valid. So it may work, but you really want source code access to change it the right way.

Erik_3E
Sep 23, 2010, 10:21 AM
I think Erik is speaking about the issue where the maximum number of civs in any one game (18) was compiled into the DLL.

Yepp that whas what I meant, thanks for clarifying :)

@Kael
Thanks for answering the question as whell. :)

Was the limit you culd reatch 22 civs or did you just try that many?

cant wait to gett my game tomorow now! :P

CyberChrist
Sep 24, 2010, 04:25 AM
How well - if at all - does the AI handle the change from 1upt to multiple units per tile?

Kael
Sep 24, 2010, 02:09 PM
How well - if at all - does the AI handle the change from 1upt to multiple units per tile?

I haven't done any large scale tests, so I dont know. It seems like the AI does okay with it in my few games, but I'm no expert. The AI sometimes has problems in the base game leading with cannons or leaving them exposed. This may actually help with those issues. But that's all theory on my part.

Martock
Sep 24, 2010, 04:00 PM
The 1UPT thing at first bugged me but I have to admit, after playing, it's grown on me. What bothers me is the range of ranged units. I hate seeing archers shooting at targets that are 2 hexes away but I know in time we'll be able to fix that.

Would it be possible to turn ranged artillery units (archers, catapults, cannons) into civilian units that have the ranged ability but can be captured (I don't think archers should have that option) or be destroyed when the defending unit on top is defeated?

Right now, with your mod, I can at least have that archer on the same hex as say, my spearman. That's great cuz i now have to protect that unit. With the 1UPT in place, that archer would need 1 unit in front of it to act as a block. In combat, that means if my 1 melee unit were destroyed, in all likelihood, that archer or catapult would be able to escape.

EmperorFool
Sep 24, 2010, 07:01 PM
What bothers me is the range of ranged units. I hate seeing archers shooting at targets that are 2 hexes away but I know in time we'll be able to fix that.

Would it be possible to turn ranged artillery units (archers, catapults, cannons) into civilian units that have the ranged ability but can be captured (I don't think archers should have that option) or be destroyed when the defending unit on top is defeated?

That would defeat the whole purpose of 1UPT: forcing you to defend your weaker ranged units by having them behind your stronger units. Without a front and rear, your weak units will be too strong since you'll have to defeat the strong unit to get to them. If you're being bothered by ranged units, get some faster units to out-flank them and come from behind.

Jezz
Sep 24, 2010, 08:33 PM
What bothers me is the range of ranged units. I hate seeing archers shooting at targets that are 2 hexes away but I know in time we'll be able to fix that.

I still think Civ3 had the best representation of archers/bow weapons. Archers are normal melee unit with limited strength, but a defensive bombard. If there are any UU that are archers/bows, they get 1 tile offensive bombard to give them a little uniqueness. But normal archers shouldn't get ranged bombard. For gameplay balance, that should be left to siege weapons.

I don't have Civ5 yet, but reading about how siege/bombard weapons now works, it seems strange. So if my horsemen attack a catapult, the catapult is destroyed? That doesn't make any sense at all. The horsemen would run down the people manning the catapults, but the catapults should be captured.

Quetz
Sep 24, 2010, 08:47 PM
But normal archers shouldn't get ranged bombard. For gameplay balance, that should be left to siege weapons.


I really don't understand why archers from the Stone Age have more range than modern firearms.

CyberChrist
Sep 24, 2010, 11:27 PM
That would defeat the whole purpose of 1UPT: forcing you to defend your weaker ranged units by having them behind your stronger units. Without a front and rear, your weak units will be too strong since you'll have to defeat the strong unit to get to them. If you're being bothered by ranged units, get some faster units to out-flank them and come from behind.
You do realize that this thread is dedicated to a mod that has the specific purpose of getting rid of the 1upt system, right?

IMO then reducing the range of most of the ranged units (and especially the English Longbow) would be a fitting addition to this mod.

PsiCorps
Sep 24, 2010, 11:52 PM
and especially the English LongbowSacrilige....burn the heretic.:lol:

moondog
Sep 25, 2010, 02:57 AM
Nether one of these mods will download in my game, something about an http error.

Shiggs713
Sep 25, 2010, 08:55 AM
Kael, could you please post this and your other mods on the CFC database still, and provide a link on the OP. The mod browser is a bad joke at the moment, it doesn't function properly, and I would imagine most the people trying to download this are having epic failures. I've tried downloading some of these small mods a few hundred times, and it always fails within the mod browser. Only way I have gotten a mod to install successfully so far is the old fashioned way.

Martock
Sep 25, 2010, 12:19 PM
It's not my intent to remove the 1UPT but rather relabel military support units as hybrids. Civilian in that they can be captured, but military in that they can bombard. Plain and simple. I see nothing wrong with having to protect your weaker units.

EmperorFool
Sep 25, 2010, 03:28 PM
It's not my intent to remove the 1UPT but rather relabel military support units as hybrids. Civilian in that they can be captured, but military in that they can bombard. Plain and simple.

I like this idea outside of a 1UPT system which this mod creates. Yes, I forgot I was replying in this particular thread above.

I see nothing wrong with having to protect your weaker units.

Certainly true, my point is that allowing them to be stacked on the same tile as a significantly stronger unit makes them too easy to defend. But this is an argument against unit stacking in general and thus has no place here. :)

Martock
Sep 26, 2010, 06:01 PM
I'd be happy with just having 1 military unit (sword, warrior, etc) and 1 support unit (archer, cannon, etc). per hex. I have no problems with losing them if the guarding unit is destroyed. That's not really changing a ton there either as you can already have military units protecting civilian units.

Kruelgor
Sep 26, 2010, 06:24 PM
I really don't understand why archers from the Stone Age have more range than modern firearms.

The difference is in the power/destruction inflicted.

MilkmanDan
Sep 27, 2010, 01:36 PM
I changed it down to 2UPT and dropped the city changes myself and found it worked nicely. Not so many traffic jams but no real SoD either. Hard to say how the AI is handling it (or not) because the one war I had were tech was equal, the egyptians had no army and were quickly overrun.

Since then, I've come to completely surpass the AI (reached industrial just as first AI reached renaissance) so can't really speak to how well they're using it. Modern armor vs pikes/muskets isn't really fair comparison.

EmperorFool
Sep 27, 2010, 06:49 PM
Modern armor vs pikes/muskets isn't really fair comparison.

Yes, but if the AI were to stack two pikemen versus your one modern armor . . . er, never mind.

Lonkut
Sep 28, 2010, 07:57 AM
is it hard to mod the 1UPT? I only want that and not the whole mod? Anyway you can post/show how to end the stacking limit?

Kael
Sep 28, 2010, 08:20 AM
is it hard to mod the 1UPT? I only want that and not the whole mod? Anyway you can post/show how to end the stacking limit?

NO, there is a value in the global defines for the amount of units per tile. It defaults to 1, this mod changes it to 999.

EmperorFool
Sep 28, 2010, 09:50 AM
It defaults to 1, this mod changes it to 999.

999? A little stingy, no? I'm playing a warmongering game now and don't think I've built more than 20 units--and I'm about to reach Rifling. It's tough to build units since you have to build gold, happiness, and culture buildings just to keep your economy afloat.

Kael
Sep 28, 2010, 09:52 AM
999? A little stingy, no? I'm playing a warmongering game now and don't think I've built more than 20 units--and I'm about to reach Rifling. It's tough to build units since you have to build gold, happiness, and culture buildings just to keep your economy afloat.

For all practical purposes 999 means infinite amount of units per tile.

CyberChrist
Sep 28, 2010, 09:55 AM
It is going to take a lot more than merely raising the number allowed on each tile before this is going to be workable for play, since there is no code for making the proper checks to see if units can actually advance into a tile containing other units.

If you move into a friendly unit/stack then you get the popup if you are sure you want to declare war, but before you can answer yes or no your unit will already have advanced into the tile.

Likewise when defeating an enemy unit after attacking then the winning unit will advance into the loosers tile - regardless if that tile still contains more enemy units.

Also, civilian units are still not permitted to pass through/share tiles with friendly units belonging to other players.

Lonkut
Sep 28, 2010, 11:14 AM
how does AI deal with this? Does it avoid placing more than one unit in the tile? It would be nice if it only worked for civilians only since that is the only problem I have with 1UPT. Also, where is this mod on my comp I can't seem to find it.

EmperorFool
Sep 28, 2010, 04:07 PM
For all practical purposes 999 means infinite amount of units per tile.

I think your sarcasm detector is broken. ;)

In any case, I'm really excited to see modding happen even before the tools are available. This should be pretty fun once it gets seriously hopping.

Hybrisma
Sep 29, 2010, 07:53 AM
Have you messed around with limited stacking at all?

Civ4-esque stacks of doom, to put it frankly, sucked. But maybe limited ability to stack will help the AI protect their ranged units a bit better.

Kolath
Sep 29, 2010, 11:01 AM
Kael, as for an interface, the game already has something like it for air units. Could you apply the air unit stack interface to all units or would that also require source code access?

strategyonly
Sep 30, 2010, 09:12 PM
Dones anyone still have a copy of the documents of Legion 1? I need them or just a copy of the Member Count part is just fine also.

Lebowski89
Oct 01, 2010, 05:21 AM
Heh, the one change that makes this game a million times better for me is the one change that many of you want modded out. Thank goodness for mod's they allow the game to be accommodating to everybody.

Stacks of death do suck though, come on.. admit it:p

Xmas
Oct 02, 2010, 04:23 PM
Kael, do you know if there's a way to make a ranged attack hurt all the units in a stack (except civilian ones)?

darkedone02
Oct 03, 2010, 10:29 AM
I liked this mod cause it bring back the classic promotion's, but too bad it won't let me purchase more then one unit.

pduthie_au
Oct 04, 2010, 06:48 PM
Is there anyway to modify the stacking so only certain units can stack (ie a naval unit with a transport, defender with artillery/ranged units ?

JEELEN
Oct 04, 2010, 07:11 PM
I haven't done any large scale tests, so I dont know. It seems like the AI does okay with it in my few games, but I'm no expert. The AI sometimes has problems in the base game leading with cannons or leaving them exposed. This may actually help with those issues. But that's all theory on my part.

I noticed an interesting siege of Sidon in my last game, which the Ottomans wanted to capture (and indeed did). A lot of unit moving around was going on, but if an exposed Archer or Catapult got damaged (from green to yellow) they pulled it back. Even Sidon tried this, but to little avail, as they didnīt really have any spare room. As I had made Sidon my ally, they even gifted me a damaged Catapult, which I however immediately gifted back, because I had no need for it. (In retrospect I might have kept it, but I was interested to see how long they would hold out.) Anyway, there was a lot of stacking and unstacking going on.

Another question: have any CTDs been reported associated with Legions? (I suspect not, but want to eliminate a possible cause, as I have Legions enabled all the time now.)

QES
Oct 05, 2010, 11:24 AM
Lol Kael. You read my mind every time.

I hope you are well man, I see you are still der uber furor of the civilization community.

EDIT/ADD: I did like the intention of civ 5 to make terrain and positioning matter. I was just wondering if it was possible to have stacking but limit it to "unit types." One can have a civy and a military unit together, what if it was 1 civil, 1 infantry, 1 ranged, and 1 cavalry per hex? This would still limit mobility and require strategy, but then some things could get some protection.

A compromise worth making?

MasterDinadan
Oct 07, 2010, 10:18 AM
Where in the XML is it determined whether a unit counts as a combat or a non-combat unit for stacking?
And what about missiles and aircraft, which can stack?

SerriaFox
Oct 09, 2010, 08:22 PM
Ok I have played 1 game to the discovery of coal.

My impression is the AI handles this allot better than the 1upt.
Not having an interface to see the unit is annoying but livable
1 Bug i notice however is a melee unit garrisoned in a city cannot attack out of the city in a double stack, I was also trying to attack across a river if that matters, sorry no save

Overall I would say until the AI is fixed for 1upt this is infinitely more playable.

p.s. the city has a place to view two units, i wonder if you could use something similar to display two units. probably not but it might be an avenue to look into.

JEELEN
Oct 09, 2010, 11:45 PM
Stacked units doesnīt mean you can stack attack. But I have noticed difficulty trying to get a unit to attack from a city, so thatīs confirmed (I can click endlessly on the Attack button, but the unit wonīt budge; if I do 1 move out of the city, then attack, it works fine.)

EmperorFool
Oct 10, 2010, 01:59 AM
I can click endlessly on the Attack button, but the unit wonīt budge.

What happens if you simply right-click the target unit instead of using the attack button? FWIW, I never use the attack button.

JEELEN
Oct 10, 2010, 11:48 AM
Tried that too. Plus left and- or rightclicking. Especially Swordsmen, Longswordsmen and their upgrades I canīt seem to get to attack directly from a city. I get the attack button plus odds, but no go...

Kissa
Oct 12, 2010, 01:51 PM
I have the same problem.
Aparently only the range attack units can attack from a city.

Dont know why ?

Plus, in Civ4 range attack units can "suicide" attack (direct attack non range attack), but not in Civ5 ?

MasterDinadan
Oct 12, 2010, 03:12 PM
I had a similar situation occur without the mod. It seems that it's just some kind of bug in the game's code.
I had a garrisoned melee unit in my city, and a naval unit in the same city. The melee unit was not able to attack out of the city, but after moving the naval unit out of the city, he was able to attack.

EmperorFool
Oct 12, 2010, 07:22 PM
I had a similar situation occur without the mod.

I can verify this behavior. In my case I had a Bowman garrisoned in the city and moved a Swordsman from behind the city to attack a unit on the other side. It stopped in the city and would not attack. Since I had already attacked with the Bowman, I had to move the Swordsman out to perform the attack. Luckily it had enough MPs. :whew:

WarKirby
Oct 14, 2010, 03:35 PM
I'd like to see stacking discouraged, but not removed entirely. Doesn't this just restore the old problem in it's unholy glory?

One unit per tile is bad
Stacks of doom are bad

Can't we have some middle ground?

JeBuS27
Oct 14, 2010, 03:39 PM
Small stacks of lesser doom?

JEELEN
Oct 15, 2010, 06:17 AM
I'd like to see stacking discouraged, but not removed entirely. Doesn't this just restore the old problem in it's unholy glory?

One unit per tile is bad
Stacks of doom are bad

Can't we have some middle ground?

You can stack, but you canīt stack attack. Though IMO there should be a limit to the stacking (especially since you canīt currently see whatīs in the stack and itīs excruciating to try īn pick the unit you want to use from a stack - so Iīm currently only using the stack feature as little as possible).

Mortimer
Oct 15, 2010, 07:18 AM
Not so much a feature request as a theoretical idea: Could you make unit stacking dependent on technologies or unit promotions? For example you unlock 2 stacks after....bronze working.

Okay, it is a feature request. Shameless, shameless feature request.

Also: This is awesome.

WarKirby
Oct 15, 2010, 10:42 AM
You can stack, but you canīt stack attack. Though IMO there should be a limit to the stacking (especially since you canīt currently see whatīs in the stack and itīs excruciating to try īn pick the unit you want to use from a stack - so Iīm currently only using the stack feature as little as possible).

Interface reasons don't stop stacks from being overpowered. Stack attack was always just an interface convenience that never had an actual effect on battle.

Personally, I'd like to see someting like:


1-2 units can stack fine.
with 3+ units, an additional 8% penalty is applied for each additional unit, to all units in the stack (so with 10 units, everyone is at 44% strength)
Additional movement costs for entering a tile already containing 3+ units.
Some promotions, like Cover, would be nullified when in a stack containing too many units.
A hard cap of 10 units per tile
The return of Collateral Damage
Non combat units not counted in these penalties.
An AI that understands and works around these penalties, stacking when necessary, not just when it wants to.

EmperorFool
Oct 15, 2010, 10:43 AM
By "stack attack" do you mean the Civ4 option? If so, realize that it's just a UI shortcut to attacking with each unit one after the other. It doesn't give you any benefits at all. It cycles through all selected units, picks the strongest and attacks with it. The best defender for each unit is still picked so you don't gain any advantage. You are only freed from click, click, click, clicking to make all the attacks.

So not having the stack attack in Civ5 is only a PITA. It's not a compromise to avoid SoD abuse. :lol:

Edit: What WarKirby said. :) D'oh!

JEELEN
Oct 15, 2010, 11:39 AM
Well, thanks for stating the obvious. Lemme repeat: you canīt stack attack. You can stack all you want, but in order to attack you need to unstack all the units in your stack. (So if you have 10 units, like in the cap example, you need to unstack them 1 at a time.) This is because thereīs no stack interface/icon. Oh, why do I even trouble myself...:rolleyes: Carryon!

EmperorFool
Oct 15, 2010, 02:26 PM
Lemme repeat: you canīt stack attack.

We're all agreed here.

You can stack all you want,

Here's where a little more obviousness would be nice: by "stack" do you mean "place multiple units on a single tile"? Yes, this mod allows that. But given that you keep mentioning "stack attack" which means "selecting multiple units and making them all attack with a single click", here "stack" might mean "select multiple units" which we all know is impossible in Civ5.

So ya, some clarity would help here. <obvious> Using the same term to mean multiple things doesn't help. </obvious>

but in order to attack you need to unstack all the units in your stack.

Are you saying you need to move them off the tile with the stack to attack? I doubt it as this only seems to be a bug on city tiles. So that must not be it.

So I guess in the end you're asking for the ability to select multiple units at once, but Civ5 has no notion of this. In Civ4 you had CvSelectionGroup which grouped units into stacks. They may have removed it entirely from the SDK.

GoUtes53
Oct 18, 2010, 08:36 PM
Hi Kael,

Thanks for all your hard work. Your mods make this game much better. I was wondering if it was possible to make a version of Legions that allows just 2 units per plot and adds all of the promotions? You can PM me at Go_Utes@comcast.net if you'd like. Thanks much in advance.

JEELEN
Oct 18, 2010, 09:27 PM
Here's where a little more obviousness would be nice: by "stack" do you mean "place multiple units on a single tile"? Yes, this mod allows that. But given that you keep mentioning "stack attack" which means "selecting multiple units and making them all attack with a single click", here "stack" might mean "select multiple units" which we all know is impossible in Civ5.

So ya, some clarity would help here. <obvious> Using the same term to mean multiple things doesn't help. </obvious> [...] Are you saying you need to move them off the tile with the stack to attack? I doubt it as this only seems to be a bug on city tiles. So that must not be it.

What Iīm saying is in my post. Iīm not saying anything Iīm not saying. Seems rather <obvious> obvious </obvious>. When I use stack, I mean stack. When I use stack attack, I mean stack attack. Anywho, what I mean is word for word in the post youīre cutting into irrelevant bits, so Iīll not repeat it again..

EmperorFool
Oct 18, 2010, 11:27 PM
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. It's been nice, um, whatever.

anonymouse197
Jan 07, 2011, 07:09 PM
Has anyone got a download link for this, or even a torrent file, as I have had a problem running Microsoft BITS so I cannot use the Mods browser...

kane65
Jan 16, 2011, 12:44 PM
Just wanted to say, fantastic mod. War was so slow before, this speeds it up significantly. I know the non-stacking way may be more realistic but it was very tedious. Thanks again

kane65
Jan 20, 2011, 11:28 AM
Any chance on showing unit promotions on a mouseover?

kane65
Jan 21, 2011, 03:25 PM
Biggest flaw I've found with this (besides the stack-attack option I'd like) is that when you stack your units in a city they do nothing for defense and when the city is taken you lose them all. Found that out the hard way. No biggie, great job.

DarthLuca
Apr 06, 2011, 02:08 AM
I am using a modded version of the 'Legions' mod to enable two units per hex.
[PLOT_UNIT_LIMIT, Set Value="2"] This generally works fine except when combat situations arise where either I am sharing a hex with an enemy or an enemy is sharing a hex with another faction (The second can screw completely if you try and attack getting stuck in a 'Do you want to go to war' loop.

I have read through this thread and it would seem that nobody has yet found a solution to the combat problems. There also seems to be no definitive answer as to whether this IS fixable or is likely hardcoded.
A possible solution would be to prevent units of different factions sharing hexes (without preventing ' Pass throughs')?? Although this would seem to leave the question of which unit attacks and defends in a two stack situation?

This is starting to be a game-breaker for me. Personally I find 'normal' Civ5 (1 unit per hex) way too restrictive and think it causes more problems and frustrations than it solves. With 2 units per hex many problems (and virtually all frustrations) are solved (defending catapults and generals, moving where YOU want without units suddenly swapping places or being blocked unnecessarily), BUT and it's a big but, once combat starts to get in any way involved (with more than one unit per hex) the whole thing falls apart and more than likely I will sooner or later encounter either mysteriously invisible units, a major infinite query loop or a 'waiting for opponents' loop that means you have to reload.

So I'm in a can't live with - can't live without it situation. (i.e. A game breaker). A solution would be SOOOO great. An answer to some of the questions posed in this response would be a start I guess.
(It seems to me (as an old ex programmer myself) that the game was written to allow multiple units per hex but that the 'programmers' were unable to solve the combat problems within budget and time constraints and therefore went for the 'easy' option of allowing 1 unit per hex.)
I'm also starting to think that if this was solvable then some of the expert modders out there would have cracked it by now.

SerriaFox
Apr 06, 2011, 04:51 PM
I am using a modded version of the 'Legions' mod to enable two units per hex.
[PLOT_UNIT_LIMIT, Set Value="2"] This generally works fine except when combat situations arise where either I am sharing a hex with an enemy or an enemy is sharing a hex with another faction (The second can screw completely if you try and attack getting stuck in a 'Do you want to go to war' loop.

I have read through this thread and it would seem that nobody has yet found a solution to the combat problems. There also seems to be no definitive answer as to whether this IS fixable or is likely hardcoded.
A possible solution would be to prevent units of different factions sharing hexes (without preventing ' Pass throughs')?? Although this would seem to leave the question of which unit attacks and defends in a two stack situation?

This is starting to be a game-breaker for me. Personally I find 'normal' Civ5 (1 unit per hex) way too restrictive and think it causes more problems and frustrations than it solves. With 2 units per hex many problems (and virtually all frustrations) are solved (defending catapults and generals, moving where YOU want without units suddenly swapping places or being blocked unnecessarily), BUT and it's a big but, once combat starts to get in any way involved (with more than one unit per hex) the whole thing falls apart and more than likely I will sooner or later encounter either mysteriously invisible units, a major infinite query loop or a 'waiting for opponents' loop that means you have to reload.

So I'm in a can't live with - can't live without it situation. (i.e. A game breaker). A solution would be SOOOO great. An answer to some of the questions posed in this response would be a start I guess.
(It seems to me (as an old ex programmer myself) that the game was written to allow multiple units per hex but that the 'programmers' were unable to solve the combat problems within budget and time constraints and therefore went for the 'easy' option of allowing 1 unit per hex.)
I'm also starting to think that if this was solvable then some of the expert modders out there would have cracked it by now.

amen, I totally agree

wgene
Sep 14, 2012, 06:29 AM
I cant find this in the Steam workshop. Does anyone have a link or the file you can upload.

unfairlane
Sep 14, 2012, 11:35 AM
I cant find this in the Steam workshop. Does anyone have a link or the file you can upload.

Can`t find it anywhere:confused:

Putmalk
Sep 14, 2012, 02:19 PM
Please note that this was one of the first ever mods developed for Civ V and that the reason it doesn't work anymore is because Kael does not mod Civ V anymore (think he works at Stardock or something?). Nevertheless somebody will have to make a new one.

wgene
Sep 14, 2012, 02:52 PM
Please note that this was one of the first ever mods developed for Civ V and that the reason it doesn't work anymore is because Kael does not mod Civ V anymore (think he works at Stardock or something?). Nevertheless somebody will have to make a new one.

I take it this mod wouldn't work in G&K anyway.

Putmalk
Sep 14, 2012, 03:01 PM
I take it this mod wouldn't work in G&K anyway.

I mean I don't know exactly what the mod changes.

If it's just unit stacking that's easily moddable in the GlobalDefines.xml.

Actually, this mod can be made in 15 minutes and it would be fully compatible with gods and kings no problem. The AI just won't stack. Ever.

wgene
Sep 15, 2012, 01:53 AM
I mean I don't know exactly what the mod changes.

If it's just unit stacking that's easily moddable in the GlobalDefines.xml.

Actually, this mod can be made in 15 minutes and it would be fully compatible with gods and kings no problem. The AI just won't stack. Ever.
I just had a look at that file there are heaps of things in there. What do i need to change.

Ezlazeme
Sep 18, 2012, 01:31 PM
Please note that this was one of the first ever mods developed for Civ V and that the reason it doesn't work anymore is because Kael does not mod Civ V anymore (think he works at Stardock or something?). Nevertheless somebody will have to make a new one.

this mod still works for me with gods and kings

wgene
Sep 18, 2012, 01:58 PM
this mod still works for me with gods and kings

Do you mind uploading the file. Because i don't have it and i cant find it anywhere.

JA_Lamb
Oct 30, 2012, 03:45 AM
this mod still works for me with gods and kings
Do you mind uploading the file. Because i don't have it and i cant find it anywhere.
Can I also ask you to upload this file? And please do it here at Civfanatics and save us all from the ache of Steam requirements. The fact that this mod still works with the finicky G+K's is a testament to Kael's coding. :king:

All aspiring modders should have all his mods as stand alone downloads to study as one can learn more from them than all the Tuts in the world!!!

Thanks.

Ezlazeme
Oct 31, 2012, 06:53 AM
Ok I found the original file that I had. Also included a copy with ez in front of the file name. This one I have deleted changes to "MAX_CITY_HIT_POINTS" and "UNIT_MAINTENANCE_GAME_MULTIPLIER". This Mod works as well as it did when it was first created (with the changes I made). AI units will stack. Cant attack from a city. Glitch when declaring war by entering a occupied tile. Have Fun!

JA_Lamb
Nov 02, 2012, 02:26 PM
Thank you very much for taking the trouble, you're a :king:

wgene
Jan 09, 2013, 04:24 AM
Ok I found the original file that I had. Also included a copy with ez in front of the file name. This one I have deleted changes to "MAX_CITY_HIT_POINTS" and "UNIT_MAINTENANCE_GAME_MULTIPLIER". This Mod works as well as it did when it was first created (with the changes I made). AI units will stack. Cant attack from a city. Glitch when declaring war by entering a occupied tile. Have Fun!
Any chance you can update this because it wont work anymore with the lastest CIV UP patch.

agoest
Jan 23, 2013, 11:21 AM
Any chance you can update this because it wont work anymore with the lastest CIV UP patch.

I've got the same problem. An update would be highly appreciated.

Ezlazeme
Jan 30, 2013, 11:27 AM
I hve not played for awhile and have not used civ up. Besides adding promotions this mod only updates one line of xml (In the version I altered). You can try removing the promotion part of the mod and see if it will work then. I try not to use any mods that make large changes to the UI because they tend to conflict with most of the mods I have used in the past. Sorry I cant be more help. If and when I start to play agian and I find the altered version isnt working with my favorite mods I will try to find a solution.

Renegade_1
Feb 09, 2013, 11:55 AM
I realize this thread is fairly old. I was trying to find the Legions mod in the Civlization 5 ingame mod browser. I find a mod called "Legion by jpbar81" but no "Legions by Kael".
I have the Gods and Kings expansion.

JA_Lamb
Feb 20, 2013, 12:33 PM
See Post#124 above you can dnl there

wgene
May 12, 2013, 12:22 AM
I hve not played for awhile and have not used civ up. Besides adding promotions this mod only updates one line of xml (In the version I altered). You can try removing the promotion part of the mod and see if it will work then. I try not to use any mods that make large changes to the UI because they tend to conflict with most of the mods I have used in the past. Sorry I cant be more help. If and when I start to play agian and I find the altered version isnt working with my favorite mods I will try to find a solution.

Thanks Ezlazeme i removed the promotions and now it is working.

Hellan
Jul 24, 2013, 06:27 AM
Seems this mod gets disabled with loading a save game in BNW?! WHAT A DAMN SHAME!! I hate the "one unit per tile-rule"... This ISN'T A GOD-D CHESSGAME!! haha

Any chance you could update the mod Kael??

Sonereal
Jul 24, 2013, 07:14 AM
Given Kael has an actual job making actual money now, prolly not.

Gilgamesch
Jul 24, 2013, 07:39 AM
Seems this mod gets disabled with loading a save game in BNW?! WHAT A DAMN SHAME!! I hate the "one unit per tile-rule"... This ISN'T A GOD-D CHESSGAME!! haha

Any chance you could update the mod Kael??

You can easy tweak this mod for BNW. Well i use the one unit per tile rule, but i like his promotions.

Hellan
Jul 26, 2013, 01:25 AM
Gilgamesch; That would be awsome! Could you please guide me how? :D