Guys, I couldn't help but post this quote straight from one of Civ V's technology quotes, forgot which technology it was, but it said something like,

"A designer knows he has reached perfection not when there's nothing left to add, but nothing left to take out"


I think the vanilla Civ V game was built on this philosophy, while Civ IV was the other way around. :)

Totally agreed. When what's left is so integral and dynamic and important that its impossible to take anything else out, that's true game design. Any more elements that are added need to be as dynamic as what's already there.

I couldn't totally agree more. I believe they gave us the community a base so we had all the room to our hearts content. They gave us the clay and we are here to mold it and make it our own.

I have to agree. CivV is a solid product, but it's very liquid. They can do a number of things in terms of expansions and modders can just go crazy with it.

"A designer knows he has reached perfection not when there's nothing left to add, but nothing left to take out"

By that logic a blank disc is the ultimate game.

I think this quote applies when designing certain technical objects, you want the design to be as simple and reliable as possible. Or in art as essential. But a game like Civ is part simulation, and simulations should include as many of the key elements of the thing being simulated as practicable.

So what have been the key elements in human civilization? If you were writing a book on civilization what would the chapter titles be?

I could disagree with OP, CIV Rev was simpler game so hence better.

I mean seriously guys, if you think this game is perfect I can't but wonder what will you be saying when civ VI comes out.

And will you buy expansions which add more features which will be released sooner or later?

Guys, I couldn't help but post this quote straight from one of Civ V's technology quotes, forgot which technology it was, but it said something like,

"A designer knows he has reached perfection not when there's nothing left to add, but nothing left to take out"


I think the vanilla Civ V game was built on this philosophy, while Civ IV was the other way around. :)

Ironically (considering your point), it's the quote for Engineering in civ4.

By that logic a blank disc is the ultimate game.

I think this quote applies when designing certain technical objects, you want the design to be as simple and reliable as possible. Or in art as essential. But a game like Civ is part simulation, and simulations should include as many of the key elements of the thing being simulated as practicable.

So what have been the key elements in human civilization? If you were writing a book on civilization what would the chapter titles be?

I think it refers more to the fact that no element of this game is tacked on, which goes directly against the underlying philosophy of Civ IV.

I think it refers more to the fact that no element of this game is tacked on, which goes directly against the underlying philosophy of Civ IV.

I think it's about not having elements in the design that do nothing, regardless of whether they were there originally or added later.

And in Civ V it seems there are plenty of ultimately inconsequential design elements. People on this very board talk about how they can safely ignore happiness and other things that should matter when simulating civilization, and win Command and Conquer style.

With the corollary that you shouldn't take things out that make the game a more enjoyable experience :) That's when things get tougher....

I think it's about not having elements in the design that do nothing, regardless of whether they were there originally or added later.

And in Civ V it seems there are plenty of ultimately inconsequential design elements. People on this very board talk about how they can safely ignore happiness and other things that should matter when simulating civilization, and win Command and Conquer style.

What? Happiness is essential to growth, which is essential to science, which is essential to military, which is essential to...

What? Happiness is essential to growth, which is essential to science, which is essential to military, which is essential to...

But according to this guy you can just focus on money and buy everything else
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=383032

That's kinda :):):):):):):):), reading through, how did he get so much money when most buildings cost 500-800? and how did he maintain science? The real issue there is that the AI is stupid and minor economic elements need to be refined.

Ironically (considering your point), it's the quote for Engineering in civ4.
Oh god, I thought it was Engineering. Clearly, that's a sign that I played Civ IV too much!

By that logic a blank disc is the ultimate game.

I think this quote applies when designing certain technical objects, you want the design to be as simple and reliable as possible. Or in art as essential. But a game like Civ is part simulation, and simulations should include as many of the key elements of the thing being simulated as practicable.

So what have been the key elements in human civilization? If you were writing a book on civilization what would the chapter titles be?

This.

I'm really enjoying Civ, but to think they took a lot of stuff out to "perfect" it is just dumb.

Have no doubt that the bean counters at Firaxis had a say in what was included in the vanilla game, and what they would charge extra for in terms of DLC and xpacs.

I have to agree. CivV is a solid product, but it's very liquid. They can do a number of things in terms of expansions and modders can just go crazy with it.

derp?

The quote has an implicit assumption....

A designer knows he has reached perfection not when there's nothing left to add, but nothing left to take out, while retaining the same funtionality

Fact- People tend to like customizing and personalizing things in vid games

Fact- They should have it where you can customize a civ, a unit, a leader


the evidence is clear- Perfection is but for attacko

If a game satisfies all your expectations - how many times are you going to play it?

With Civilization it was always like this: I would add this or that, and that's what people did. That's why it's such a great game. It allows creative approach instead of perfect but dogmatic consumption and quick fall into oblivion.