View Full Version : mm21-The Art of War-Always


Mark1031
Sep 26, 2010, 10:52 AM
It's been a while but I used to do a lot of Always War SGs back a few years. CivV looks quite interesting in the warmongering regard and I can’t figure out what cooperation pacts do anyway so we’ll forget cooperation and just go for Always War. I have tried it out a bit on king and steamrolled the first 2 civs with 4 warriors (cheaply upgraded to swordsmen)-note cheap upgrades and immediate healing are unbalanced.

So.

Civ-Wu Zetian
Map-Standard Continents
Level-Emperor
Always War-As soon as you meet a playable civ you hit the declare button and no peace ever.-Not For City States, we need some friends.

So it is victory or death for the great Chinese Empire. Should really help hone the war fighting skills, which seem to be the main changes in this version, but will also provide a lesson in large empire economic management-if we get that far.


Mark1031
Methos
Ozbenno
Arathorn
ThERat

Methos
Sep 26, 2010, 04:59 PM
I suck at war, so why not, consider me in.

Ozbenno
Sep 26, 2010, 06:47 PM
AW is the finest of civ past-times, I'd be up for it!!

Is there not an always war option as default???

Arathorn
Sep 26, 2010, 07:21 PM
Always war was listed as an option in the pictures of the manual, but it's not actually available in the game.

I'm going to be overcommitted soon, but... Sign me up.

Arathorn

ThERat
Sep 26, 2010, 07:33 PM
Mark, you know I am currently playing an AW game in the stories section. Without city states though.

Have fun with this!

Methos
Sep 26, 2010, 09:03 PM
When I saw that ThERat had posted here I started laughing, as I realized this was going to be a very impressive game with the current players. I'm sorry to see that ThERat won't be joining us.

Mark, you know I am currently playing an AW game in the stories section. Without city states though.

For those interested, here's the thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=383153) he is talking about. Excellent read and something I'll be following as we play this game.

Mark1031
Sep 26, 2010, 09:37 PM
Mark, you know I am currently playing an AW game in the stories section. Without city states though.

Have fun with this!

Hey there Rat I did see your AW thread. I didn't think about nerfing city states as they are so powerful (and I didnít realize you had the option). I will be following your exploits. I suspect no city states is like a 1x level boost in difficulty from my brief trials.

We have quite an illustrious team forming. We could use 1 more but certainly with this group we can stick to emperor level. Iíd like to keep City States as they are an interesting addition that Iíd like to learn more about.

I hope we can get one more player by tomorrow and we can begin.

Chime in with thoughts on strat. As I said the warrior to sword upgrade was overpowering in a couple of king trials I did but it is clear that economic and happy management will be one of our biggest problems.

My guess is the way to go is to beeline to swords and wipe out the closest 1-2 civs and then depending on the lay of the land work out a kill zone to hold off any other civs on the continent until you can efficiently incorporate the remaining territory. With no stacking of units and strong ranged weapons no one is getting through a well defended choke.

Ozbenno
Sep 26, 2010, 09:49 PM
I haven't tried out much in the way of warfare in my one game yet but did notice that upgrading old units was much more efficient than building them.

Would have to bee-line to Iron Working, build tonnes of warriors then upgrade and head for the closest civs. Has anyone seen how the AI handles city attacks? It seems hard (as a player) to lose a city unless you are overpowered with much advanced units. UU seems pretty good, so Machinery looks another good bee-line.

The honour policy tree seems to have some good options for AW (Discipline, Military Caste, Military Tradition and Professional Army).

Mark1031
Sep 26, 2010, 10:12 PM
Has anyone seen how the AI handles city attacks?

Poorly. I took out 2 civs with literally just 4 swords and no cat/archer support. Basically just move 3 up to the city and 1 round of attacks takes them out or redlines the city so 1 weakened sword takes it out the next turn. Save all upgrades as the big one is immediate healing. After the attack just immediately heal your swords and move on to the next city-boom 1 civ gone that early in the game.:lol:

Methos
Sep 26, 2010, 11:30 PM
I just played a test game and got lucky with the map. Ocean on three sides with a mountain range to the north and a one tile choke point. I didn't have the strength yet to go attacking, so I manned the choke point with a warrior and archer (scout gained an upgrade through a hut) and nothing could come through. I had two cities up and was debating a third when I got the pop up saying I had the lowest amount of 'pointy things'. I'm guessing I waited too long to act and spent too much time building. I need to restart another test game and make sure to get a map that isn't so lucky/defensive.

ThERat
Sep 27, 2010, 01:16 AM
OK guys, going to join you (if you want me)... should be strong game with this lineup

will write some more comments tonight

Arathorn
Sep 27, 2010, 08:57 AM
Ranged units rock. yeah, you can take cities with swords, but I had better luck with catapults. I conquered the entire world with a sword, a longsword, and 2 catapults. OK, it was prince, but.... It's definitely doable.

We don't want to fall into the trap of completely neglecting policies/culture. Honor is really extremely useful for combat and the other policies are valuable, too.

Happiness can be an issue. Policies can help. I've had some good luck with puppeting some cities and using workers to force them to be gold cities (by building trading posts on every tile they can work, so they have minimal production but good gold production). Up to half my cities work this way and it actually saves time on not trying to bring them into our empire.

BTW, Methos, being last in pointy things is no sure indication of being in trouble, even in always war. As always, the human has a huge advantage over the AI in combat. Intelligent ranged combat and flanking can let us win, even if (realistically, WHEN) we are outnumbered. We can use city's bombardments to help with that, too.

Thinking of city bombards, I would tentatively recommend building our cities closer together than seems common in Civ5. Being able to bombard incoming units with two cities is a tremendous asset, if we are fighting on our own territory (and with the ease of embarkation and such, that seems reasonably likely). It's impossible to cover all approaches, but we can limit the efficacy of flanking.

I am excited to see how this will play out.

Arathorn

Mark1031
Sep 27, 2010, 05:34 PM
And so we begin as Empress Wu whose beauty makes the flowers bloom and the rivers flow and….. whatever.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/Wu.jpg

You will note we have some very nice traits. Our generals rock @ +45% rather than +25%. We also generate them at 2x the rate. Combine that with a great early UB to spam-the paper maker, a library that generates +4 base gold, and we should be an unstoppable force.


4000 B. C. We have an excellent starting spot 2 food 2 luxuries a river-settle in place. Warrior heads SE sees ocean-good. Research started on animal husbandry for the cow.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/4000BC.jpg


3840 BC Ruin gives us a survivor +1 population. Also Queen Elisabeth appears from the NE with a scout. She will not be happy to meet us. Declare war.

3720 BC Beat Lizzie to a ruin and get archery. Nice.

3640 BC Lizzie shows up with a warrior and attacks my warrior in the woods. We each lose 7HP. Ouch. AH in start pottery. Second warrior finished and I go with a worker.

3600 BC Lizzie injured warrior attacks my injured warrior at what must have been very poor odds and loses dropping my guy to 1 HP.-very aggressive.

3560 BC Find Lizzie's borders very close to the N.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/foundLizzy.jpg

3480 BC Lizzie wants peace Ha!

3400 BC Liz attacks across a river warrior to warrior and loses 8 HP. In a terribly weedy move I finish her off and dropped to 1HP near her border and get arrowed to death. Damn that was stupid. Sorry we now have one injured warrior near home and a nearly completed worker.

3360 BC pottery-> calendar.

3280 BC Passive aggressive Gandhi shows up from the West with an archer sorry Gandhi no peace for you.

3160 BC In my second less important weed move I go one turn more than I was supposed to. In summary, found two ruins that worked out well, archery and a pop. Met Elizabeth and Gandhi, declared war. Lost one exploring warrior and started a worker second instead of a third warrior so have not explored nearly enough, met no city states and found no wonders.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/End3160.jpg

Not the best of openings but not disastrous. With the worker about to complete you can start cranking warriors and exploring. I would keep one warrior close to home or you will get pillaged a lot which is a real pain.

Next up Methos take 20 turns.

On Deck Ozbenno take 10-15 what ever feels right

Methos
Sep 27, 2010, 05:55 PM
Should we try and get a second city out before massing against Liz? We seem way too weak at this point. I'm at work and using my phone so I can't see the resources, but I'm considering archery next, followed by the iron working path. Thoughts?

Mark1031
Sep 27, 2010, 06:33 PM
I got archery from a ruin. I would get out 2-3 more warriors to explore and harass and then 2 settlers. I think we probably want writing and wheel before IW. Our UB is a gold producing library that we can spam. Should have 1 settler ready for when IW comes in though.

Ozbenno
Sep 27, 2010, 06:46 PM
Liz is close be interesting to see what she throws at us. Archery and increase pop is nice as well.

Writing and Wheel before IW seem right as well. Look like good city sites to the west of the river but might need Lizzie out of the way first, maybe some good production sites east of the capital. Maybe throw a scout or two into the mix as well, and hope for a ruin upgrade to archer (or better).

Beorn-eL-Feared
Sep 27, 2010, 08:14 PM
If there is any chance you'd take me, I'd love to play this.
3600 BC Lizzie injured warrior attacks my injured warrior at what must have been very poor odds and loses dropping my guy to 1 HP.-very aggressive.She's quite the b**** in civ5.

Also, exploring in AW is always risky business. City-states rock but more enemies get tough to chew.

Mark1031
Sep 27, 2010, 10:08 PM
If there is any chance you'd take me, I'd love to play this.


I'd be happy to have you but a six man rotation is a bit too much. I can put you on standby if we lose a player and of course lurker comments are always welcome.

Beorn-eL-Feared
Sep 27, 2010, 10:25 PM
Sounds good. At the moment I need to play with audio disabled due to crashing issues and somehow, disabling audio also means you cannot promote units (!!?!%$!), so AW gets complicated anyways. Will lurk with interest.

ThERat
Sep 28, 2010, 12:22 AM
@BeF disabling audio means upgrading is disabled? why is that so?

Ok, people let me chip in a bit of findings from my own AW game.

1. Happiness is an issue all the way throughout the game so far. I have to limit my expansion in order not to get too unhappy. We need those happy luxuries, maybe those city states can help? We will need to spend money/production on colloseums, circuses etc. There is a social policy in the honor branch that gives +1 happiness for garrisons. We need that too I think

2. Upgrading of units is THE way to go. It is way cheaper to build a unit and upgrade it later on than building a new better unit from scratch. Also, promotions and experience are NOT lost when upgrading a unit. Beating up barbarians brings your unit to 30xp only, that's 2 promotions. Hence, we need to beat up the enemy. It might be wise to keep someone alive on our continent to 'train our units' while we bring up happiness etc.

3. Naval units rock. Even caravels can have deadly impact on foes. You can upgrade them to blitz even. (You will see soon in my solo game). Our invasion that will follow sooner or later MUST be accompanied by some naval units. Hence we need 1 -2 coastal cities.

4. Harbors could connect our empire at a much cheaper rate than roads due to maintenance.

5. We should decide beforehand where we go with our social policy since expansion will kill our social policy achievements drastically.

ThERat
Sep 28, 2010, 12:23 AM
btw, deluxe and standard are non compatible, I hope we all have the standard version of the game.

Methos
Sep 28, 2010, 12:38 AM
Just took a look at the save and had a few thoughts...

In four turns we earn our first policy and though it appears we all agree on adopting 'Honor', I just wanted to be absolutely clear that everyone was in agreement.
We currently have three extra happiness, so our worker (who is complete in two turns), I was considering improving the cow prior to the sugar. The cow grants us an additional :hammer: compared to the :food: from the wheat (which speeds us up to unhappiness). I honestly think we could improve both the cow and the wheat before becoming unhappy, but I'm not sure how warfare affects happiness.
After looking at the save and hearing Ozbenno's and our hosts comments I tend to agree that it would be best to research Writing next for our UB.
I'm probably going to go with a warrior next and possibly an archer after that. Or should that be warrior -> settler?
I didn't take a close look at possible city sites, so I have no opinion on that.

I plan on playing in the morning, so somewhere between eight to eleven hours from now, so any thoughts on the above?

Edit: I have the standard version.

ThERat
Sep 28, 2010, 02:00 AM
but I'm not sure how warfare affects happinessNot at all, there is no WW in civ 5, a big plus

As for the rest, I agree with delaying some growth for added production. Rapid expansion will simply slow us anyway once we gain some AI cities.

Barbarians are pretty frequent in Civ5 thus additional units are a plus in my mind

Kylearan
Sep 28, 2010, 05:52 AM
disabling audio also means you cannot promote units
Hahaha, what? This is more than ridiculous...Firaxis, how did you manage to create such a weird bug?!? :crazyeye: :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm following this game with interest. :hammer:

Arathorn
Sep 28, 2010, 08:39 AM
I also have standard. If we all have standard, at least we can play.

Social policy -- honor, definitely. With all our combat, it's a must.

I love love love ranged units, so I would go warrior -> archer -> settler myself. We can't really afford many casualties at all and ranged units are the way to limit those. Since we have archery, I'd take advantage of it.

Tech-path, I fully concur on Writing before Iron Working. Depending on the horse situation, we might even want HBR before IW. Though horses are kinda fragile. Spears, at least, hold up pretty well between ranged units and the opponent(s).

Cows give food, not production, unfortunately. Since the wheat is on plains, it has a hammer, so I'd probably do it first, myself, to make sure the stupid governor keeps working it. Though the river and speed might take priority. Lots for the worker to do, at least.

Exploring....city-states vs. more foes. I don't know. Let's just not lose our capital, OK? :P

Arathorn

Methos
Sep 28, 2010, 12:13 PM
First off, I have to apologize due to not having any screenshots. I haven't figured out how to take them yet. I have a Macbook Pro and use a Windows partition to play. My keyboard doesn't have a PrntScr button and I tried using the Apple key commands, but that didn't work either. I'll have to talk to some other Mac users to see how they do it. Its probably something simple.

Upon hitting 'end turn' a wounded Indian archer showed up across the river, so our healing warrior was sent to remove him from

existence. Our warrior earned a promotion, which I've left unchosen.

3120 BC Liz comes along and desires peace, which I refuse.

3080 BC Worker completed and moves to cow and begins pasture. Production is started on a warrior. In the process of our warrior

returning we see a barb headed our way.

3040 BC The barb turns north while our wounded warrior enters our territory and begins healing. A wounded English scout shows up

to the south.

Grr, I wish I could take screenshots. We get the popup regarding the 'Worlds busiest people', we're tied for last with 5, while

the leader has 8. Elizabeth is at 7 and Gandhi is at 8. We also have a barb from the south heading our way.

3000 BC We have an English scout within bombardment range and it brings him down to the red. We have a barb three tiles away, so I

ignore the scout and reposition our warrior. The worker completes the pasture, but we're still three turns away from finishing

Calendar. Due to the scout being next to the wheat, I instead move the worker to the grass tile between the cow and lux and start

on a farm. I also adopt the 'Honor' policy.

2960 BC On the interturn the barb attacked us and did significant damage to both us and itself. The barb was extremely wounded

where I could have killed it by bombarding, but I wanted the XP, so our now very wounded warrior finished him off. The English

scout has moved out of sight.

2880 BC Calendar completed, start research on Writing (9 turns).

2760 BC Warrior -> Archer. Warrior moves to hill NE of capitol.

2720 BC We grow 1 pop and the worker completes the farm and moves to the sugar. The worker should have been completed last turn,

except for a misclick by me, which cost one turn.

Liz offers 100 gold plus 5 gpt for peace, which I refuse.

2640 BC A barb comes within range. It's showing a minor victory so I bombarb it and then put both warriors on the opposite side of

the river.

The barb ignores us and instead moves south.

2600 BC I bombard again and then use our experienced warrior to kill the barb.

I'm currently on turn 36, but Writing just completed and I'm unsure about what we've decided on next. We have horse one tile outside of our borders, but there's only two, so not sure that's worth researching HBR for. There's a second horse resource (also two) that's three tiles to the east, so still within our three ring radius. Mining is a strong possibility, but it'll require us to purchase the plains hill (100 gp, we have 193, earing 10 gpt). I'm more inclined to get Mining next for the additional production.a

Our archer is due in six turns, pop growth in nine turns (currently at size 5).

Arathorn
Sep 28, 2010, 03:38 PM
I think that makes Ozbenno up and me on deck.

Do we all have standard version in this game? I hope so, else we won't all be able to play together.

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Sep 28, 2010, 05:22 PM
I do have the standard version of the game as well.

I have the save in my possession so consider this a got it. Will probably have a look at the save later tonight and post some comments in the morning to play tomorrow.

HBR will be good eventually but I think Mining is better now for production purposes and leads towards iron working.

More thoughts tomorrow after I have a look at the save.

Beorn-eL-Feared
Sep 28, 2010, 07:15 PM
Methos, I don't know whether ordinary keyboard remappers would work on cross-platform builds but it might be easier to force a key to think it is printscreen, with a program like that, than wait for firaxis to figure it out. I'd give that a shot, just google key mapping.

Btw I had a mild case of civsomnia last night and played this, fun map!

Ozbenno
Sep 29, 2010, 05:30 PM
Some notes from looking at the save...

Mining (6 turns) and then Bronze Working seem the best options for tech at the moment, given we have Writing already.

We are 6 turns from producing an archer, options after that could be warrior (7), settler (9) or paper maker (14), given we have 2 units only at the moment (and one in production) I think a warrior.

I would like to send one of our units exploring to the east to see what we have out there, leaves one at home and the archer in a few turns, seems protection enough.

Have your say, I will be playing in about 8 hours or so.

ThERat
Sep 29, 2010, 06:30 PM
Plan sounds good to me.

If we have iron, the strategy to build warriors and upgrade to swords is powerful btw.

Ozbenno
Sep 30, 2010, 05:40 PM
Have played very uneventful turns, will have write-up done as soon as I can figure out how to read the screenshots I took :confused:

Ozbenno
Sep 30, 2010, 06:49 PM
I played until turn 48 as we have achoice or two to make and it seemed a good handing over spot.

Started off by setting the research to Mining and moving one of our warriors to explore the south east.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8894/civ5screen0002j.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0002j.jpg/)

He found three things of interest, first a barbarian encampment, which he later destroyed but maybe of more importance, the edge of the world, we have one flank with little to worry about. Also the Rock of Gibraltar was found.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6207/civ5screen0006.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0006.jpg/)

Also of note, we have the need, the need for incense...

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5589/civ5screen0004.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0004.jpg/)

When our archer completed, I started building another warrior and set the already built second warrior off to the north east, where he found a city state.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6000/civ5screen0005.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0005.jpg/)

We finished Bronze Working and have the choice here I see between Wheel and Iron Working. The warrior finished same turn as BW and the city grew to size 6 at the same time.

We could go for more warriors or (better I think) a settler for an Iron city. I forgot to take the turns required for IW and a settler sorry :blush:.

Elizabeth has gone city crazy and now has 3 pushing towards us, our swords will feast mightily :scan:

I assumed we were saving money for sword upgrades so haven't done anything about Dublin at all.

Arathorn is UP I believe!!

ThERat
Sep 30, 2010, 07:22 PM
I agree with IW

In my opinion, a combination of good melee units together with some ranged staff is far better than those horses/knights/cavalry. To me it seems that the latter is too fragile and often picked out by spears pikes etc.

So, let's research iron and get some swords up. Upgrading of warriors is a great idea as it is much cheaper than building swords from the start.

ThERat
Sep 30, 2010, 07:23 PM
and since it hasn't been posted for a while

Roster
Mark1031
Methos
Ozbenno
Arathorn - up
ThERat - on deck

Methos
Sep 30, 2010, 11:54 PM
Personally I'm not interested in Dublin. In my SP games I tend to get a unit every 17 turns. I'd rather save the money for upgrading units, or maritime and/or cultural city states. Dublin does have gold though, so the happiness from it may be worth the :gold:, depending how things turn out.

Arathorn
Oct 01, 2010, 05:51 AM
Got it. Hope to play in the airport today, but I make no guarantees as today is rather ... crazy. If not today, tomorrow.

IW during warrior/settler seems to make the most sense to me. The settler is to claim iron, so we have swords to go take England's cities. Two swords and two archers will probably be enough, with good tactics.

Arathorn

Arathorn
Oct 02, 2010, 03:12 PM
My apologies for the turns. I overestimated our strength and underestimated England's.

Anyway, good news (relatively) came in 3000 BC, when Boethius ranked the most literate players (most techs). We were last, naturally, but we have 8 techs, as do two others. The rest, including Gandhi and Elizabeth, only have 9 techs.

I moved toward England, trying to establish a position away from our front, and maybe even take a city. I took out a couple warriors and captured a worker, but I overextended a bit and lost our archer. :( That's just ... poor play. They had another warrior hidden in the background and he came off the roads and took out our archer. I had moved him a bit forward to finish off another warrior, but I exposed him needlessly. Units are very precious. Sorry.

Barbs came in from the south, which was a problem since I had sent our troops north to deal with England. Nothing pillaged and no units lost to barbs, but i had to dance our workers around some. And weaken the English area a bit.

Elizabeth came begging for peace, early on. It was an even peace offer, so she apparently felt our militaries were semi-equivalent. A turn later, Gandhi offered 100 gold and 3gpt for peace. That would be nice, in some games. Out of place in this one, but a couple hundred gold for very little is something to keep in mind for other games.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=266542&stc=1&d=1286053306

That gap let the English build up some forces. A couple archers and city defense. They were becoming a bit of a problem. Many cities producing leads to that. They'd already damaged a number of units, so it was a bit dicey.

This picture also shows that wonders were starting to fall. This turn, both Stonehenge and the Colossus were completed. A couple others completed earlier. I'm just noting that fact. I don't think we want to worry at all about wonders. Except those that we capture. :satan:

I took care of an archer (couple other warriors) earlier, too. But that exposed a warrior. :(

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=266543&stc=1&d=1286053306

I fear he will die in the interturn. He might well be worth healing completely, though, just to keep him alive. He does have a promotion available. Up to the next player.

We should probably build another archer. And our settler is up for discussion.

Roster
Mark1031 - on deck
Methos
Ozbenno
Arathorn
ThERat - up

Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 02, 2010, 08:51 PM
Got it,

A few questions before I play. Are we planning to expand or simply take over enemy cities? We could theoretically rush a settler with the cash we have?

Maybe wait til IW is done and then decide where to settle. I guess that makes most sense. Remember that city location is not that critical anymore.

ThERat
Oct 02, 2010, 10:27 PM
Had a look at the save, we get a settler in 2 anyway. I would use the money we currently have to buy our great UB. The UB is a no brainer, giving 4gpt and 2science/citizen for a mere 1gpt. This building can never go wrong. With it we can also add 2 scientists.

Arathorn
Oct 03, 2010, 02:07 PM
The UB makes a lot f sense. I should have done it. We didn't have enough money at the start of the turn and I forgot to check later.

Other than that, be careful with the english and get us iron and all should be good.

Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 03, 2010, 04:22 PM
Pre turnok, we got a settler in the pipeline anyway
Our UB is very powerful decide to cash rush it


Turn 61 - 1560BC
research has shot up to 12pt and income to 12gpt due to our UB
warriors all still alive

Turn 62 - 1520BC
settler done, warrior will accompany him
decide to go for another archer, we need some ranged stuff


Turn 63 - 1480BC
Elizabeth wants peace and barbs appear from the south
get settler into position, move a warrior south


Turn 64 - 1440BC
the barb archer moves into our territory
bombard him and then defeat with our warrior
found Shanghai along the river, starts a spear

Turn 65 - 1400BC
IW is in, we have a fat deposit of 6 west of Beijing (within the 3 tile reach) and
one small deposit next to Shangahi
research goes to masonry to get the marble connected
an English archer appears


Turn 66 - 1360BC
zzz


Turn 67 - 1320BC
zz

Turn 68 - 1280BC
attack a barb camp, but get injured

Turn 69 - 1240BC
get the finished archer south to help out bust the camp
capital goes for another archer

Turn 70 - 1200BC
we get a Golden Age, masonry is in
worker start to work that marble
choose wheel next so we can connect our capital with Shanghai and move a little faster

we make 14 science and a great 23gpt at the moment
we should buy the iron tile at Shanghai and then connect it, upgrade 2 warriors and strike England
Their longbows are scary and we should take care of them before that
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7901/mm11200.jpg

Mark1031
Oct 04, 2010, 10:33 AM
Looks good, good plan but I can't open the save, it crashes my game-standard version.

ThERat
Oct 04, 2010, 06:14 PM
what? you mean you can't open my save file? I don;t have the deluxe version, should be fine. Can anyone check whether there is a problem.

Maybe we can use Gyathaar's help to modify saves in case nobody can open the save file.

Arathorn
Oct 04, 2010, 07:03 PM
The save loaded totally fine for me. When in doubt, try to re-download. Sometimes, things get minorly corrupted in transit. I can verify that it seems to work fine.

Arathorn

Mark1031
Oct 04, 2010, 09:15 PM
I downloaded 2x and both crashed mid load. The program has been very stable for my own autoloads and such. I will check again tomorrow if Arathorn can load then it must be something on my end.

Ozbenno
Oct 04, 2010, 09:17 PM
I'll check from my end as well and see if I can load it later today. You should try downloading and changing the file name as well.

Methos
Oct 04, 2010, 11:50 PM
I downloaded 2x and both crashed mid load. The program has been very stable for my own autoloads and such. I will check again tomorrow if Arathorn can load then it must be something on my end.

What version are you using? I just noticed today that my Steam account is set not to auto-download patches, so its possible that someone has played with the newest patch. This is a suggestion, not sure if its the cause of the problem you're experiencing.

Mark1031
Oct 05, 2010, 07:58 AM
It was some steam related problem. A-OK now

Turn 70: Change spear to paper maker in Shanghai. Buy the iron tile and start mining.

Turn 71: Work on barbs in the South

Turn 72: Liz wants peace. Would not be prudent at this juncture.

Turn 73: zzzz

Turn 74: Clear barb camp. Beijing archer in start warrior. Wheel in start math for catapults.

Turn 75: Liz and Gandhi are rich. We are middle-class. Find Mount Fuji in the South. Some nice land in the South.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/1000BC.jpg

Turn 76: Iron is in upgrade 2 Warriors two swords. Beijing finishes warrior starts settler.

Turn 77: Begin the long march with 2 swords 2 archers and 1 general. The Oracle is built somewhere.
.
Turn 78: England brings Dublin in on the war against us. Very appropriate however I feel the sun is about to set on this empire. Begin the assault on York.

Turn 79: York is red lined should fall next turn.

Turn 80: A new policy is available. Golden age is over gold drops to +13. We capture York I keep it as a puppet for now as it has furs. On second thought we should probably raze it, which I believe we can still do at any time.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/900BC.jpg

We can probably take out England with our small army if we are careful. Although it would be nice to get some more iron. Settler is about to complete in Beijing and can be used to claim some land in the South. I don't feel confident with city placement as I've never played a game through but I put up a bit of dot map anyway. I assume we will need a few good coastal cities as in ThERatís AW game it seemed the Navy was quite important for overseas action. I'm not sure where you want to go with policy but I would tend to want to save them to go more economic/authoritarian later.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/dotmap.jpg

Methos
Oct 05, 2010, 08:11 AM
The iron spot would be nice for the additional iron resources. I see we've already used up all of our iron. I also like the southern coastal spot for the two :) resources. We're going to need them.

Luckily York is only size two, so it won't hurt us for too long when we raze it.

I believe I'm up and I'll take a look at the save in a couple hours.

Mark1031
Oct 05, 2010, 08:57 AM
The spot farthest S picks up 2 new lux and a 2x-iron all 2nd ring but its cheap to buy tiles, also I think I read there was a bonus for being 2tiles or less from a WOW-can anyone confirm this? The closer dot picks up 8 iron but no lux. Best course would probably be grab the close iron and get 2more swords into the mix and then send another settler to the nicer spot in the S. We will pick up spices from London anyway. You might want to start razing York now while we are at 8 happy.

Arathorn
Oct 05, 2010, 09:20 AM
We can raze at any time. It's essentially a take-over then raze, so we get unhappies while we are razing. It might well be worth it, though.

If we do keep puppets, be sure to trading post virtually every square. That will minimize the amount of gold-sucking buildings they can produce while maximizing their revenue stream to us.

Arathorn

Mark1031
Oct 05, 2010, 09:38 AM
Other than capitals which can't be razed and should be incorporated (over time) we should probably raze/replace everything else this early they will have nothing of value in them.

Methos
Oct 05, 2010, 12:05 PM
Turn 81 850 BC: I adopt the Honor policy Discipline, which grants our units +15% combat strength when a friendly unit is adjacent to it. I set production to a barracks. I'm curious how beneficial it is compared to the cost.

267146

Mathmatics -> Currency (for the additional income)

Turn 87, 700 BC: I finally begin my assault on Nottingham and my inexperience with warmongering is showing. I hated to do it, but I burned a promotion to heal one of our swords.

Turn 89, 650 BC: I raze Nottingham. We earn another GG.a

267147

Methos
Oct 05, 2010, 12:21 PM
Sorry for the above post being so short. My Windows partition ran out of space, so I had to jump back over to OS X to complete it.

I couldn't figure out how to raze York. It would only give me the option to annex it, or leave it as a puppet city. Are we sure we can raze a puppet city? This had me a bit worried, so I set Nottingham to raze.

The battle to the north went fairly well. I spent several turns healing up before attacking and Nottingham fell very quickly. At one point prior to the battle I mistakenly attacked a wounded archer that put my sword within range of both Nottingham and London, hence the reason why I burned a promo to heal.

I can't think of who are other neighbor is, but we had a couple elephant archers show up around our new city. Luckily the attacked our warrior and then moved on. I'm not sure where they're heading, but last I saw they were moving to Hastings.

England sent a warrior over from Dublin (east of us), but we were easily able to defeat it.

I built several more warriors in preparation for upgrades once the iron is hooked up (four turns I believe).

We have two GG now. One in the north and one in our capital. Don't forget the one in the capital, he's currently asleep.

Mark1031
Oct 05, 2010, 12:57 PM
Sounds good. I believe we have to annex first and then raze. Which we should do it in a way that keeps our happiness above water. We need construction soon for the happy buildings.

Mark1031
Methos
Ozbenno UP
Arathorn ON DECK
ThERat

Beorn-eL-Feared
Oct 05, 2010, 02:10 PM
You must annex a city to raze it. AFAIK you cannot raze original capitals.

Ozbenno
Oct 05, 2010, 03:41 PM
OK I've got it, will tonight, post some comments tomorrow and get cracking after that.

Ozbenno
Oct 06, 2010, 03:29 PM
Looking at the save, England appears gassed, couldn't see a single unit so think we take out London quickly, we can't raze so puppet or keep (keep maybe)?

Tech wise, we're just about done on Currency, Construction or Horseback Riding would be good, will probably go HBR for horsemen and then Construction.

Otherwise, just keep building units at the moment (our production isn't that great actually so I'll see what can be done there as well).

Arathorn
Oct 06, 2010, 06:44 PM
I prefer puppeting until courthouses are available, unless the city has awesome production potential (and/or marble). Generally, if a city will be a gold city, there's little sense in ever keeping it. If it's hammer-heavy, though, that's when I think it's worth taking control of.

Just my $.02,
Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 06, 2010, 07:27 PM
Agree with Arathorn, before courts, keep puppets.

Of course this puppet will build rubbish at first, but that's usually not that bad.

Ozbenno
Oct 06, 2010, 07:29 PM
Cool, willl puppet London and maybe raze her last city if I get that far.

Ozbenno
Oct 07, 2010, 04:19 PM
Played until turn 100, England is no more...

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8877/civ5screen0001.jpg (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0001.jpg/)

Never saw a unit of hers and we didn't lose a unit ourself. I puppeted London

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2899/civ5screen0000.jpg (http://img37.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0000.jpg/)

but possibly smoked some :smoke: by annexing Hastings, has good production and is adjacent to out existing cities, we'll see.

So happiness is a few negative at the moment.

Connected two additonal sources of iron and upgraded warriors to swords, when we get some more cash, there are 3 more to be upgraded.

Research wentr through Currency and Horseback Riding and is now on Construction.

Gandhi has been throwing some elephants around but they are easily dealt with by swords.

The troops are around Hastings or London healing up and we can march direct to Gandhi's land I think. Have a horse archer in production that can do some advance scouting for us (4 movement).

We can make peace with Dublin but I didn't as I was unsure as to the legality of it :mischief:. If it fits in the rules, we should.

Arathorn is now UP.

Methos
Oct 07, 2010, 04:35 PM
What level are we playing on? That seemed way too easy. I could be wrong, but I'm not expecting much from Gandhi either. AW rules state we can never accept peace.

Ozbenno
Oct 07, 2010, 05:07 PM
The AW rules don't apply to the city state in this game as per the OP but not sure whether we can get peace once we are at war (they must have declared on us).

Playing Emporer as well...

Methos
Oct 07, 2010, 06:53 PM
Forgot about city states. What about allowing peace deals, but we have to accept only peace and must remove any gold or resource offered. In other words straight peace only.

Arathorn
Oct 07, 2010, 07:00 PM
Straight peace with city-states? It's Mark's game, so I'll leave the ultimate decision up to him on how to deal with city0-states. For traditional AW, you can never make peace with any actual player.

Oh, and I got it. Though I won't play tonight, since we're awaiting a ruling. I should have time tomorrow evening, provided I can get away from the family for a bit.

Glad England is gone. I'll move over towards Gandhi. And work on happiness a bit. So much to do.

Tech path? Steel for longswordsmen would probably rock, but it's expensive. Do we at least have Civil Service? I'll check it all out.

Arathorn

Mark1031
Oct 07, 2010, 08:08 PM
Looks good and it does seem too easy for Emperor. As far as the city states I guess let's say if they declare on us then no peace -they have chosen unwisely. So if we want a friend then we better pay for it and keep them happy.

Ozbenno
Oct 07, 2010, 08:31 PM
Tech path I was thinking of was Construction -> Engineering -> Machinery for our UU. Don't have Civil Service, would also be good.

ThERat
Oct 07, 2010, 09:13 PM
Great job taking out England :goodjob:

We should be careful with annexing cities as this also increases the culture limit for social policies. Better to keep puppets first until later.

I agree with the city state ruling, once enemy, forever enemy. Are we trying to pop civil service with a Great scientist? I still find that method best to pop some expensive tech. As for other techs, I would head for the ones giving us bows.

Arathorn
Oct 08, 2010, 09:56 PM
What can be said that has not already been said? What story can be told that has not already been told? The might of China perserveres over all obstacles in its path.

I took over a nation steeped in misery and with very low cash-flow. I worked to resolve these issues, but everything takes time, even for an exalted one. So you can imagine the difficulties one like I had in this situation. At war with India and, briefly into my reign, with both city-states we know of. No friends, no allies. No cash. Few workers. A powerful but injured military.

At Hastings, we danced with the Indians. Our archers and city fired from a distance and swordsmen moved in for the kills and retreated to heal. Inside the city itself was the best healing spot, but future leaders must be aware that units healing inside a city must be manually awakened or they will stay there ad infinitum, not aiding a glorious charge across the continent.

For years the dance went on, until we had slain two mighty elephant bands and two bands of archers with no losses on our side. Healing from those injuries before marching on to Mumba was deemed necessary. The lake also required some interesting tactics of marching north to go west. Meanwhile, our chariot archer scouted and swiped a worker. A band of swordsmen in the south destroyed a third Indian elephant gang. Two warriors combined to take out a barb spearman and the camp he was defending. No casualties.

Also, while this was going on, a mighty roading project was spreading. As was the knowledge of all people, not just our own. While we learned Construction, Trapping (so we can benefit from the camps on furs and deer, as well as start building trading posts around puppets), Philosophy, and started on Civil Service, we received whispers on the wind of unmet nations entering the medieval age. We are not that progressed yet, having devoted significant attention to our eternal wars. We remain convinced that the power of the Chinese people will overcome such petty obstacles, however. Once we learn to Sail, that is.

After years of maneveuring, threatened by the evil city-state ally of India, our forces finall were in position around Mumba. Our archers raked the city with arrows. Swordsmen bravely charged the gates. And yet the city held. Again, our forces moved. This time, success was ours.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=267770&stc=1&d=1286595982

The city was naturally puppeted, at least for its resistance period. I believe it would be well-served by maintaining this status, with trade posts built everywhere its citizens can reach.

Shortly thereafter, news came that one great roading project succeeded. All of what used to be England is now connected to mighty Beijing. Our coffers begin to burst with new wealth.

Our citizens, who enjoyed a brief spell of happiness with new furs, are again distraught. Delhi, with silver and ivory, has their attention. We own neither. We lust after such luxuries. Forces are positioned thusly.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=267772&stc=1&d=1286595982

On their first full turn, our next leader can move two archers, one chariot archer (capturing a worker), two swordsmen, and one warrior (as well as our great general) into position around Delhi. This will involve waking the sword in Mumba, who may not be fully healed, but that is OK. Turn two should see three archers fire and the city may even fall. If not then, the following turn. Again, we should probably puppet, at least short-term. The two new luxuries will be very helpful.

At that point, our known continent will be clear, except for the two city-states who have chosen unwisely and must also fall, eventually. We may want to use them as free experience for a while, however. Because we know no other peoples, we must hoard our strength and study, while probably also building up our economy and such.

I built no new units, except the ones which were mid-build when I inherited, except for one worker. We had cities working unimproved squares and we are not getting puppeted cities into gold-only mode quickly enough. I captured a second Indian worker in Mumba and we may get a third and fourth shortly. They will help, perhaps enough. Markets and colosseums will probably become important shortly, too.

We are doing well in all things except population. The Chinese people must learn to procreate more rapidly! :D

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=267771&stc=1&d=1286595982

With that, I pass off the reins of power.

Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 09, 2010, 12:23 AM
Got it, so all that is left is to clear up our own continent and then start to explore the seas.

I guess our research should head to astronomy then?

Arathorn
Oct 09, 2010, 01:46 PM
We need to solidify our economy, too. That means some markets and perhaps workshops/forges in certain cities. We'll probably need/want steel before we really take out another continent, too, so we're in no huge hurry.

We've not comprehensively explored our continent yet either. We can work on that (and farming barbs for gold) once Delhi falls and we deal with the city-states. My experience has been that city-states are harder to take than cities of major powers, because they tend to build more defensive buildings. Keep that in mind.

At least we're set for iron for a while.

Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 09, 2010, 07:17 PM
Pre turn
we got cash but are unhappy. And we will get more cities, hence happy buildings should get priority
change some MM since we don't grow anyway, get +16gpt now

Turn 111 - 100BC
move on to Delhi, upgrade a warrior, retreat from Helsinki, that suddenly has 2 spears and an archer
income dropped to 9gpt, too many units I guess

Turn 112 - 75BC
Guangzhou has a rax now, it should then be used as our troop producer, start a catapult there
2 archers pound Delhi, 3 swords are ready for the kill next turn


Turn 113 - 50BC
take Delhi, income shrinks even more though happiness is not an issue now thanks to all that silver

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/1903/aw250ad1.jpg

Turn 114 - 25BC
Helsinki and Dublin are the worries now with their troops, we better get at them
in the southwest, barbs have spawned, more money and xp for us

Turn 115 - 0AD
Helsinki's spears attack our sword in the woods and lose, but have 2 more troops coming
upgrade a warrior in the east to fight Dublin
spot whales near Delhi, another resource for us later on
take 4 health away from Helsinki's spear, heal the sword, move troops north

Turn 116 - 25AD
our archers get attacked but survive, Helsinki's spears are red now
defeat the spears with the help of archer and swords, however there are more spears in the back
hope the archer spear combo won't kill our sword
move troops massively north

Turn 117 - 50AD
the AI is stupid and attack only with the archer moving the spear into death zone
Dublin loses a spear against our upgraded sword attacking it on a hill

somehow we got too many ranged units, hit Helsinki only little
beat up a barb spear in the south

Turn 118 - 75AD
healing turn

Turn 119 - 100AD
somebody has finished the Great Wall
due to growth we are unhappy again

kill an archer from Helsinki and move in on the city
however there is no rush, the city has gems though, good for us
step next to the barb camp way south

Turn 120 - 125AD
defeat he barb camp for yet another Great General, we might want to use him for a Golden Age
civil service is done, I select the cheap 2 turn sailing, we need it anyway

We have a worker next to Mumbai that should start to road the last tile as we get both ex Indian cities connected to the trade network
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3193/aw250ad3.jpg

start bombarding Helsinki
we meet Hanoi in the east and get 30gold, there is still land to be explored

2 markets will finish soon, our income is pretty nice right now anyway, would build a few Colosseums too

The land we gained
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5333/aw250ad2.jpg

Methos
Oct 09, 2010, 10:24 PM
Nice turnset.

Roster:
Mark1031 - Up!
Methos - On Deck
Ozbenno
Arathorn
ThERat - Just Played

Mark1031
Oct 10, 2010, 09:30 AM
So looks like the long march phase I is a success. I will play later today but I notice we kept 3 secondary cities in the middle of the continent. Should we raze them and build new ones? I really haven't had time to explore the game dynamics independently but what good does a permanent puppet do? We are very early in the game and it would almost seem better to raze and replace with human guided city placement. Let me know your thoughts. Economic based research path to astronomy? Any wonders that we want to try to get or just move forward aggressively?

Arathorn
Oct 10, 2010, 06:09 PM
Sometimes I think it's worth razing and replacing and sometimes I don't. Depends on courthouses and the production power of the city and other happiness buildings and how smartly the governor chooses what to produce and a host of other factors.

I'm generally slow to raze, because it does cost population and destroy buildings. BUT it does pay off long-term in happiness. I'm more willing to raze when I have the cheaper settlers, which we don't here. I'd probably keep most of 'em as puppets at this point, but I'm struggling a bit on immortal, so what do I know?

Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 10, 2010, 06:30 PM
Usually it's better to replace cities as the court costs a whopping 5gpt (ridiculous if you ask me)

However, early in the game it is sometimes fine to keep some cities for faster research etc. I'd say we can spam our continent with cities once we have the Forbidden palace. Together with communism, the strategy to spam cities in the late game is incredibly good.

For now, we can slow expansion with cities to get up social policies faster. Beeline for astronomy to set some sails.

Mark1031
Oct 11, 2010, 01:20 PM
Overview we are -2 happy. I like Hastings which I see we have annexed. Mumbai and York not so much and I start to raise both to get us happy and allow us to get some of our own cities set up down in the south. Besides we will have no choice for the two city states we are at war with, they will have to be puppeted. We have three generals and one can certainly be used for a golden age that I would wait till the right time and use it for building when we have more cities. Goal for this turn it is to bring peace to our continent.


Our Starting Economy
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/125econ.jpg

Turn 121: Angkor Wat is built somewhere. Knock Helsinki down into the yellow.

Turn 122: sailing in start on optics. Helsinki drops to red.

Turn 123: Helsinki Falls to a mighty warrior.

Turn 124: Mumbai and York are gone. We now have 10 happy faces to play with. Beijing finishes market starts settler.

Turn 125: optics done start metal casting workshops.

Turn 126: moving on Dublin.

Turn 127: not much to speak of

Turn 128: Shanghai finishes markets starts Coliseum. I adopt military caste- this is very nice as it will give us one happy face for every city with a garrison.

Turn 129: Annex Dehli as it was starting to build an armory. Start courthouse instead. Guangzhow finishes catapult starts monument. I think we are in a building phase large armies are quite expensive and we should hold off for a bit.

Turn 130: Dublin yellow line. Methos can finish the job and start building up our civilization.

Our Current Economy
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/375econ.jpg


I don't think we want to rush out too quickly and take on the rest of the world. We have a 3 civ continent to get up and running first so I'm inclined to get some cities and research going.

Our Empire
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/Empire375AD.jpg

Mark1031 - Just Played
Methos - Up!
Ozbenno On Deck
Arathorn
ThERat -

Methos
Oct 11, 2010, 01:42 PM
Today my wife and I have the day off due to the holiday, so I'll play it tomorrow morning, so please discuss until then. I haven't looked at the save, so I'm not sure about the available resources of Dublin. Unless it has something really good, I suggest we raze it.

Arathorn
Oct 11, 2010, 03:26 PM
Luxury resources and rivers are critical for settling. Everything else is reasonably optional, as far as I'm concerned. I'll build a city to get the commerce bonus from a river or a new happiness resource every time. Other than that, it depends on my happy cap and whether I think the new city will be able to provide enough commerce and happiness to make up for everything it costs. That's a high hurdle, IMO.

Other than that, I agree with getting our section of the world up and running really well. We need more commerce, more science, more production, and more everything. We might also look at getting the new-found city-state on our side.

Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 11, 2010, 05:12 PM
I think we can't raze Dublin as it is a city state.

Good work to get our economy going. We should try and get research set to banking for the Forbidden palace as part of the expansion so we can get more cities = more money = more research.

Landings on other continents are never easy

Methos
Oct 11, 2010, 07:50 PM
In my personal games I tend tend to farm grass and hills that are next to a river and put trading posts on any grass that isn't. Unless anyone strongly rejects, that's my plan. Dublin I don't mind for the gold, but Hanoi doesn't have very good terrain, even though it has at least two gold within its city zone. If its possible, I'd prefer to puppet Dublin and raze Hanoi, though it sounds like we can't raze city states.

Edit: I'm actually tempted to annex Dublin, due to its terrain. Any rejections?

Mark1031
Oct 11, 2010, 08:46 PM
Don't forget if Hanoi has not declared on us then we can stay friends we needn't declare on them. I do the same with all river tiles farmed all off river trade posted for the civil service boost. And we definitely can;t raze city states so annex or puppet.

Methos
Oct 12, 2010, 10:05 AM
Turn 130 IT: Our chariot archer was bombarded and then overrun by a spear. One unit down.

Turn 131, 400 AD: Apparently city states heal very quickly, as it went from red to green and without our chariot archer, I don't believe we have the strength to take it. I run one sword up against it and get it back to yellow, but our other sword would be a costly attack and not worth it in my opinion. I bring other ranged units to Dublin.

Turn 132, 425 AD: I take Dublin with three swords and a GG. Due to the terrain, I decide to annex the city. Since we're at 0 :) I purchase a dyes tile and begin a plantation on it. I couldn't locate any dyes within our borders.

Turn 134, 475 AD: Nanjing is founded and begins work on a Work Boat. Our unhappiness is now at 4.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=268377&stc=1&d=1286899321

IT: Hanoi wants Monoco destroyed.

Turn 136, 520 AD: A GS is born.

We learn Engineering.

I stop at 540 AD as I'm not sure what to do at this point. I wouldn't mind learning Steel, a long with several other techs. I'm also not sure whether we should bulb a tech, start a GA, or settle it. I'm also not doing very good with building up happiness. I don't like maintenance buildings and tend to stay away from them, but it looks like that's the only thing we have to help out. Our cities aren't growing, but that's simply because we can't afford them too.

My SP games are always small empires, so I tend not to have problems with happiness. Meaning I never build the happiness buildings. Looks like I'll have to change that for large empires.

I'll go ahead and hand off here, if you don't mind.

Arathorn
Oct 12, 2010, 12:19 PM
Looks like it's colosseum building time. And markets and trading posts. 31 gpt looks good until you realize it's only abouut 10 colosseums or 40 happiness which won't sustain us long-term.

For techs, I think we need to get caravels out ASAP to find another foe. Our military isn't doing much good sitting around, though we should put a unit in each city to help with happiness since we have that social policy.

Lots still to do here. Early conquests are fairly easy. I'm finding in solo games that the Industrial Age often catches me unprepared.

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Oct 12, 2010, 03:32 PM
OK I'm up, will review save tonight and post a plan. Would say at this stage that GS is always better to bulb in Civ V so might have to hang on to it for a while for something good to bulb, will check that out. Otherwise I think just getting happy is the priority.

ThERat
Oct 12, 2010, 06:03 PM
As we now own the continent, there are a few things we have to decide.

1. do we beeline to astronomy and find the other continents?
2. do we want to preserve social policy points for the autocracy branch that let's us build many cities for 'free?
3. do we beeline for the forbidden palace to be able to expand?

I would do all those and stop expansion of cities at this moment. No units either until we find a foe and know where to go. Units will only cost us maintenance currently. Happiness buildings, of course paper makers everywhere. Markets as well.

Arathorn
Oct 13, 2010, 02:48 PM
I agree with ThERat. I would actually prioritize banking, not just for banking but for Forbidden Palace. We wil find the other contintents soon enough. After banking, I would at least get to Optics so we can discover other lands (befriending a city-state there might prove very beneficial).

Social policies, I'm not sure what to think. Honor is obviously important. We can probably do a fair bit of another branch. Is autocracy the way to go? Commerce so we can rule the seas? I really don't have much feel at this point.

I agree on no more units. Happiness buildings, cash buildings, even research buildings should be the main order of the day.

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Oct 13, 2010, 04:16 PM
OK will play tonight, prioritise economy, happiness and head for Banking.

ThERat
Oct 13, 2010, 04:17 PM
It's the honor branch of social policies that let's us build more cities, correct. Autocracy is good for the very first part of decreasing unit support by 33%, that's really a lot if you fight a AW game.

My fault to mix them up.

Ozbenno
Oct 14, 2010, 03:45 PM
No screenshots as there is little to report. Played 11 turns of not much at all.

Went along the Banking path, Theology reseasrched and Education 1t from completion, we then need Chivalry and Banking. We have a GS still, so can maybe use him for banking or Astronomy (later).

Our happiness situation is quite improved, with wines being hooked up and a courthouse and colosseum being built we are in the positive.

The workers are running out of things to do, so I bought some tiles to work. I think every city is hooked up to the trade network now.

Finances are pretty good, big positive cash flow.

Will be another quiet couple of sets until we have Astronomy and can start exploring.

Arathorn is UP.

ThERat
Oct 14, 2010, 06:22 PM
I would use the scientist for banking, start the FP while going for astronomy. With caravels, we can find natural wonders as well for added happiness.

Are we now preserving our culture for the industrial age policies. Reduced unit maintenance and of course communism are very good for that. In that case, I would suggest to not found more cities until we got those.

Arathorn
Oct 14, 2010, 08:43 PM
Techs: Completed Education, learned Chivalry, GS'd Banking, and working on Optics. Forbidden Palace is quite expensive, but our best wonder-producing city (Shanghai) is working on it. Still 35 turns from completion, but that might drop with a bit of growth and some other tiles coming into play.

Military actions: Destroyed a couple barbarian camps for no experience. Moved around a few units to garrison a few more cities to maximize happiness benefits from garrison units. I left an archer in the south, where some barb triremes have been playing peek-a-boo.

Workers: Not much to do, so I sent a couple out to sea to explore. One found a cultural city-state (Monaco) and got us 30 gold, so noone else has met them. Might as well keep them out now, since we have so few tiles to improve.

Culture: We have very low production. Social policies are going to be hard to come by unless we start building more.

Happiness: We're doing great. Long ways from a GA, though. Even at +19 happiness.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=268752&stc=1&d=1287110538

ThERat is UP.

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Oct 14, 2010, 08:51 PM
We could put some money towards bribing Monaco to get some extra culture going.

ThERat
Oct 14, 2010, 09:05 PM
got it

yes, how about getting Monaco allied to receive some culture boost?

ThERat
Oct 15, 2010, 05:42 AM
most uneventful 10 turns

sailed around with workers a bit, finished few buildings, started 2 mints
we can grab one social policy now, but I suggest we save it for later to take the order branch

Allied with Monaco though for more culture and later met Brussels for another 30gold. The workers discovering the new city state were taken out by a barb boat though.

Astronomy is due next turn and I guess we can sail the world then with some caravels. Happiness is still great as we get cotton from Monaco

Are we beelining for the industrial age first ignoring the lower branch of techs or do we head for gunpowder?

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8773/mmaw1100.jpg

Arathorn
Oct 15, 2010, 06:36 AM
Once we meet other civilizations, we're going to have to go back to war. I didn't check demographics, but I'm guessing our military is not particularly impressive at this point. We really should go back to at least some fous on building units. We can build knights now, which are pretty good and should be nice for roving defense and barb killing.

But I think we really need steel for longswords directly after Astronomy. Longswords are generally better than muskets and since we have plenty of iron.... Getting cho-ko-nu going (not sure what tech off the top of my head) would also seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Arathorn

Mark1031
Oct 15, 2010, 12:18 PM
Preturn: Everything looks good and we are humming along nicely. I decided to annex London because it's building a stupid armory and ex-capitals are just too nice to leave as puppets. We certainly have the happiness for it.

Turn 171: we get astronomy start research on machinery which is the tech that allows Cho ko Nos

Turn 172: I begin exploring and then realize that we are holding onto three general's and in a building phase so I decide to start a golden age. 8-turns. Everybody goes to max production. Shanghai is starving to finish the forbidden Palace. Purchase a workshop there to help things along.

Turn 174: meet Budapest-militaristic

Turn 176: meet Kuala Lampur-cultural

Turn 177: machinery is in and I start steel. But then I changed my mind and switch to acoustics. If we want to make this fun with nice civic policies we should build some culture and probably try for that wonder that ups culture in every city. You may argue with this but really I wouldn't try landings too soon and it would help to have some decent naval support. I favor taking it slow and building up some culture so we can have optimal civics.

Turn 178: finally one of our dog paddling workers swims up to the shores of the new continent and meets....


http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/Alez.jpg

Alexander the great. We have nothing but contempt for old Alexander and declare war immediately. He responds by beheading poor Michael Phelps our intrepid swimming explorer.

Turn 179: meet Copenhagen-Maritime.

Nothing too exciting happened although I burned a golden age. We were listed as second in number of techs but I lost the screenshot. I am building the porcelain tower in Beijing. With a couple of scientists we could tech up to rifles along the lower path pretty quickly. Rifles backed up by two shot cho-ko-nus would be pretty unstoppable in the near term.

Our Economy and such:

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/1200AD.jpg
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/1200ADEconomics.jpg

Mark1031
Oct 17, 2010, 11:56 AM
Roster update.

Mark1031
Methos UP
Ozbenno ON DECK
Arathorn
ThERat

Methos
Oct 18, 2010, 12:46 PM
Got it. Sorry, it was a busy weekend. I'll play tomorrow.

Methos
Oct 19, 2010, 09:45 AM
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Delhi begins Chokonu. Upong the GA ending I went through and checked our cities. I left all on production focus except for Hastings and Dublin. Both cities were either stagnant or very slow on growth, so I've set them two as food focus. I choose the 'Professional Army' policy. I haven't updated any of our units yet, but we currently have enough cash to update ten archers to Chokonu.

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/mm21%201210%20ad%20policy.jpg

Turn 182, 1220 AD: Guangzhou begins a bank.

Turn 183, 1230 AD: We begin research on Steel. We locate Krakatoa.

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/mm21%20krakatoa.jpg

Turn 185, 1250 AD: I capture a captured unit and since it originally belonged to a city state, I return it for 30 influence.

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/mm21%20returning%20unit.jpg

Turn 186, 1260 AD: We pop a hut for 30 :culture:. We meet Monte and I dow.

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/mm21%20monte.jpg

Turn 187, 1270 AD: We locate the Great Barrier Reef.

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/mm21%20barrier%20reef.jpg

Turn 188, 1280 AD: Odd, we discover another Greet Barrier Reef.

Turn 189, 1290 AD: We begin research on Physics. I assign three scientists in Beijing which drops Physics from five turns to four turns. Had I not done this, we would have lost a lot of beakers since overflow is lost now. I wasn't paying attention earlier, my mistake.

We meet the Songhai and dow.

hhttp://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/mm21%20meet%20songhai.jpg

Turn 190, 1300 AD: We complete the Forbidden Palace.

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/mm21%20forbidden%20palace.jpg

Here's the 1300 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/saves/AW%201300%20AD.Civ5Save).

Unfortunately I wasn't able to help out in preparations for our upcoming war, other then economically. Most cities were already set on economic buildings, which take quite a while. We do have over 1k :gold: so the next player can upgrade our swords and archers for us. I did manage to meet some interesting foes.

Remember those three science specialists in the capital, especially when we get down to one turn left on Physics. The question now is, which target do we go after first?a

Current Roster:
Mark1031
Methos
Ozbenno Up
Arathorn
ThERat

Arathorn
Oct 19, 2010, 11:59 AM
I don't believe overflow is lost now. I am pretty sure it goes onto the next project. Beakers invested are remembered a la Civ4 and decay over time. So that level of MM seems unnecessary, from my experience.

No map means I have no clue where our "interesting" foe(s) are. I guess I'll try to load up the save when I get the chance.

With FP, I think we should very seriously look into settling more cities on our home continent and getting it fully operational.

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Oct 19, 2010, 03:43 PM
OK got it. Probably will be 2-3 days until I can play (Arathorn want to swap??).

Question is, build the military for invasion or pump out settlers, or a bit of both??

Arathorn
Oct 19, 2010, 05:17 PM
I would do a bit of both, myself. We have 21 happies to play with, and I think a few extra cities would be wise. Founding will probably be an easier route to new cities than conquering. But conquering serves dual purposes of making ourselves stronger and weakening somebody else.

As for the swap, I won't be able to play tonight, but I could maybe take a swap for tomorrow evening.

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Oct 19, 2010, 05:38 PM
As for the swap, I won't be able to play tonight, but I could maybe take a swap for tomorrow evening.


Earliest I would be able to play is two nights away so if you can take it tomorrow, grab it and I'll play after that..

Arathorn
Oct 20, 2010, 07:31 PM
Yeah, so I didn't come up with the time I'd hoped for tonight. :( I think original order makes the most sense.

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Oct 20, 2010, 08:30 PM
No worries then, I'll play tomorrow.

Arathorn
Oct 23, 2010, 06:13 PM
Ozbenno, are you there? Can you play or does the patch have all you moderators buried?

Arathorn

Methos
Oct 23, 2010, 06:17 PM
Ozbenno, are you there? Can you play or does the patch have all you moderators buried?

Arathorn

By buried, do you mean ...just...one...more...turn!!!

I'm curious, for those of you with the deluxe edition, will using Gyathaar's tool allow the save to work for you, or will it still fail?

Ozbenno
Oct 24, 2010, 04:04 AM
Am playing now, sorry for the delay, has been a busy weekend.

Ozbenno
Oct 24, 2010, 04:55 PM
Apologies for the delay, 10 more turns in the bank :mischief:

We met another two AI, Ramesses and Hiawatha (T192 and T193).

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2899/civ5screen0000.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0000.jpg/)

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8877/civ5screen0001.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0001.jpg/)

And then on T194, we find out that the Songhai are removed from the game (probably by Greece). One less AI to worry about but not really that good news as Greece is going to be a problem :mad:

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6207/civ5screen0006.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0006.jpg/)

Research went Physics then Navigation (1 turn left). We popped the GS and could buld Astronomy next turn to start building a navy.

We have enough points to unlock another policy, do we go with another Tradition policy or unlock another tree?

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/7833/civ5screen0007.jpg (http://img806.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0007.jpg/)

I started building military and settlers in my set, 2 new cities appeared.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8029/civ5screen0009.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0009.jpg/)

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6626/civ5screen0010.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0010.jpg/)

It was only most of the way through the set I realised we only have 1 worker, what happened to them all :confused: Started building a couple more.

Need a target and a navy and a plan. Greece might be the best target, #1 AI, knock them down and then the rest should be easy. Alternatively, we could wipe the other AI and then go all out after Athens at the end.

BTW, two of our exploring boats got killed..

Arathorn
Oct 24, 2010, 06:54 PM
I do think we need a plan moving forward. Lots of options. Move out quickly. Or control the seas for a while and expand to the southern continent. Or control the seas as a way to take out foes. Strongest first. Closest first. Move in both directions? How do we want to proceed? I think a plan would be nice, before I proceed.

I won't have time tonight anyway, so we should have almost 24 hours to discuss. I think I would vote for Astronomy shortly and take control of the seas. I've never done a contested landing over the water. I've invaded overseas, but before I've always moved units across before declaring war. Anybody have thoughts/suggestions on how to move most safely?

Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 24, 2010, 07:14 PM
I don't think we should settle the empty continent as it will tie up for happiness issues with this game. I would assemble a strike force and move on to the first victim. Key is to get a suitable landing spot.

We should get a supporting navy to bombard the enemy units that will undoubtedly get at us.

Methos
Oct 24, 2010, 08:37 PM
If I remember correctly, someone embarked all the workers and used them as scouts.

Mark1031
Oct 25, 2010, 03:56 PM
I agree with ThERat. No cities off continent. Strike force with good naval support say 3 frigates 4-5 rifles and a couple of cannon should be enough with a defensible choke for a landing.

I forgot we have choku';s. forget cannon those fire 2 shots and if you can get the range promotion then they are overpowering.

Ozbenno
Oct 25, 2010, 05:42 PM
I upgraded archers to chokonus as I found them.

ThERat
Oct 25, 2010, 05:58 PM
Yes, cho ko nu's are the way to go with rifle support. Cannons are powerful too. By the way, the blitz promotion doesn't do a thing for cho ko nus. I tested that.

From the last screenshot it looks as if sailing west would make a landing easier (shorter distance)

Arathorn
Oct 25, 2010, 08:32 PM
So, for always war, these turns were relatively boring. I mean, I did fight some, but I killed a bunch more barbarians than anything else. I killed two barb camps on our continent, killed 5 barbarians with a single longswordman on the southern continent, killed a greek trireme and a greek catapult with a rushed caravel. I like the visibility of the caravel.

I also rushed a frigate, so we have one of those over there. There's a big problem with sending over a bunch of rifles and cannons. We don't have that tech! Heck, we didn't even have gunpowder when my turns started. We do have two great scientists, but I recommend saving them a bit. I think we should finish metallurgy and then rush rifling. At that point, we'll still have one GS that I'm not sure what to do with. Rifling should be good, though.

We have zero muskets and zero in production. Ummm....oops! :D We do have a fair number of longswordsmen and cho-ko-nu though. I took the liberty of moving our troops west. Westward ho. Bunch of units in the water, including a great general.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=270206&stc=1&d=1288059474

We're actually close to our first city on the far continent. We're going to have to decide what to do with it. I would actually advocate for annexing it (we're at 0 happiness, but....) It provides another luxury, a healing point, a bombarding point, and a safe-ish landing spot. No, it's not a great city. Byut it's a start.

Basically everybody came wanting peace. Hiawatha was the only one willing to pay for it. I turned them all down, of course. Peace is for weaklings; we are not weak. So they all went away empty-handed.

I founded a couple more cities. Workers are there or nearby trying to help. I recalled a few exploring workers (or worked on recalling them). We have a bunch of cities to improve again at this point.

I mostly built buildings. Working on science and barracks (for heroic epic) and culture and happiness. Once we get rifling, we'll need a slew of units. Our economy is strong (like we are printing our own money!), so we might want to build a number of swords to upgrade to rifles. Though we're not that many turns from rifling if we go with my great scientist plan.

Our overall empire looks competitive, at least....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=270205&stc=1&d=1288059474

And that's about it. I think I have the seas protected. Actually, I think the AIs can't even enter ocean squares yet.

Current Roster:
Mark1031
Methos
Ozbenno
Arathorn
ThERat Up

Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 25, 2010, 08:45 PM
Rifles sounds good, artillery will be even better later on. Are we keeping the social policies for industrial era which make most sense to me.

Annexing a city on the other continent makes most sense as we can then rush stuff if we need to.

Got it.

ThERat
Oct 26, 2010, 05:48 AM
Pre turn
MM and stop growth in most cities, we now make 103gpt
our next GS will pop in 13 turns in our capital.
Given that we get to metallurgy in 4 turns + pop rifles with GS
We have 7 turns for chemistry then pop fertilizer with our 2ns GS and pop dynamite with said GS in 13 turns. This sounds like the best strategy to me


Turn 211 - 1505AD

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/582/mark1550a.jpg

land the GG, take the city, then bombard the land units with our navy and take out 3 units

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1308/mark1550b.jpg


Turn 212 - 1510AD
The AI response is a little underwhelming
We mainly heal and ship in a few more units, it's tough to accommodate them all
start to bombard Lake Simcoe
silks are done and happiness up again

Turn 213 - 1515AD
the enemy came out of their holes (a little only though)
we got some WLTKD, i try to get some growth to use this

I take a barb camp and return some workers to Brussels which makes them our friends and culture goes up a bit

it's crammed on the new continent and I try to shift our units forward without endangering them too much

Turn 214 - 1520AD
defeat another spear on defense
metal is in, pop rifles and go for chemistry
pop a ruin and get some free increase in population in one of our cities, just that it doesn't tell me which one
bomb Lake Simcoe and take it with a knight, going to raze the junk city
upgrade one cat to a treb. wounded sword evacuates into the sea

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4619/mark1550c.jpg


Turn 215 - 1525AD
AI suicides yet another pike
we get a GG, decide to burn it for a GA (7 turns)
move forward even though is a little risky, but we need space for our ranged units


Turn 216 - 1530AD
we beat barbs and return the same old workers to Brussels and gain more friendship points
start to bombard Onondaga, it has the pyramids and chichen itza as far as I can tell


Turn 217 - 1535AD
2 trebs pound Onondanga and we take the city with 3 wonders, puppet the city
the city possesses a colloseum as well
upgrade another longsword to rifle and sword to longsword

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8627/mark1550d.jpg


Turn 218 - 1540BC
divert a knight and 2 cho ko nus southeast to take the last Iroquois city


Turn 219 - 1545AD
what's up with our enemies, is this the new patch, that nobody attacks
very underwhelming, upgrade last longsword to rifle, move units a little forward
need to divert a homeland rifle to fight some barbs
we are going to waste a lot of beakers with this lack of science overflow, bummer but nothing much I can do

Turn 220 - 1550AD
take out Hiawatha by take/raze Salamanca
advance towards Akwesasne with one rifle and a cho ko nu. I left both trebs alone as we could upgrade them
to cannons next turn

We can then pop fertilizer and dynamite (GS is done in 3 turns in Beijing) and get the proper
social policies

I left us a lot of money in the back to rush some artillery once we can get them
I guess this game won't last that long given the underwhelming AI response (basically nil)

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4406/mark1550e.jpg

ThERat
Oct 26, 2010, 05:51 AM
I am really puzzled why the AI is so useless in this game. My own king difficulty game played very different. is it the new patch or what is it that makes the AI so passive?

Maybe city states? :(

Arathorn
Oct 26, 2010, 07:40 AM
Greece has been trying to take Lhasa. It's pretty obvious there was some warring over on the "other" continent which might have hurt some people (especially Hiawatha, I believe). At the end of my turns, Greece had more soldiers than we did, though I'm sure that's changed with our upgrading and killing a bunch of his units. I'm guessing the other two AIs can't really reach us through Greek culture.

I'm thinking the game will last a while longer, simply because the other continent appears to be quite large. I don't know if we'll have much/any challenge or if it will just be a blitz-slog. Artillery will make us ultra-scary. But rifles/cho-ko-nu are slow and even knights/that-other-fast-unit-we-can-build will take a while to push through a bunch of rough terrain.

I think AIs decide on a victory condition to pursue early and then go after it too single-mindedly. Especially when at war, more military units must be built. But I could easily be wrong. That's just my impression. I've certainly seen invasions of dozens of units simultaneously. I'm guessing, though, that AI decided to try to win by conquest so was building lots of units. Some balance is needed.

Good-looking turns. I would advise a bit of caution as we push forward. We can afford a few casualties. The loss of our entire army on the far continent would be a devastating blow.

Arathorn

ThERat
Oct 26, 2010, 08:10 AM
Agree to be cautious when advancing. However, the best AI units I have seen so far are pikes. That's a little underwhelming against rifles. Once we get artillery, the sheer range of them will blast the AI away.

Mark1031
Oct 27, 2010, 10:50 AM
220: We are rolling and everything looks good.

221: Chemistry in start printing press.

222: Golden age ends but we still make 125gpt. Very nice economy. I expect we will take Akwesasme next turn.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/Slide1.jpg

223: Take Akwesasme which has a Colosseum and market so I keep it as a puppet. We returned a worker to Brussels and they befriend us. Most importantly in this year a great scientist is born. Got to love those scientists who should really be paid much more irl. This gives us 2 scientists who working together lead us to the great leap forward producing knowledge of fertilizer and dynamite and establishing something called the Nobel Prize. Not only does the knowledge of dynamite allow us to upgrade to range 3 artillery but it also brings us into the industrial age unlocking the all-important autocracy civic. We have enough culture to implement autocracy and our gpt goes from117 to 143 and we don't really have that big of an Army yet.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/Slide2.jpg

224: zzzz

225: zzzz

226: Printing press in and I start economics. Also start building the Taj Mahal in our wonder city. We take Osininka which has the Great Wall and I puppet it. Also our battering of the Greeks greatly pleases Lahasa and they become our allies. This provides us with a whopping 20 cpt. I'm not sure what the calculator is for how much culture you get- from one of the other culture civs we were only getting 6 cpt.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/Slide4.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/Mark_Mayford/GREATWALL.jpg

227-230: Kind of healing and taking out a mini wave of older units mostly pikes and longswords. Sadly I lost a rifle to a Viennese rifle when I got a little careless on the front lines.

We are in a dominant position militarily, scientifically, and economically. I don't want to get too cocky but I think it is just a foregone conclusion that we win this. If you are impatient you might want to just rush buy a couple of arty on the target continent and start crushing them.

Methos
Oct 27, 2010, 11:53 AM
Current Roster:
Mark1031
Methos - Up
Ozbenno - On Deck
Arathorn
ThERat

Got it. I won't be able to play until tomorrow, though hopefully will look at the save today before going to work. Feel free to discuss.

Arathorn
Oct 27, 2010, 12:45 PM
Not sure what there is to discuss. I guess we can decide on style points (take every city but one capital which we save for last) or speed points (kinda focus on the capitals, only taking other cities that are in our way).

Science lead, rocking economy, good happiness, massive military advantage.... Not sure what else needs to be said/done. Don't screw up. :D

I'm not even sure what I would research at this point. Artillery and rifles are plenty sufficient. I don't see need for more happy buildings or culture buildings or much of anything. So I'd just pick something semi-randomly and focus on the wars.

Arathorn

Methos
Oct 27, 2010, 01:14 PM
or speed points (kinda focus on the capitals, only taking other cities that are in our way).

I prefer the above. No since in wasting time taking them all. I vote take whats needed in order to win.

Science lead, rocking economy, good happiness, massive military advantage.... Not sure what else needs to be said/done. Don't screw up. :D

:D

I'm not even sure what I would research at this point. Artillery and rifles are plenty sufficient.

Agree. I just took a quick look, but nothing really jumped out at me. I don't think it matters, but I'll look a little ways up the tree to see if there's anything that we will need and be able to get before the games over. I doubt it though.

I'll play tomorrow.

Ozbenno
Oct 27, 2010, 03:32 PM
Doesn't really seem much to say, could always use more happiness but can don that probably with what we have and the puppets will auto produce happiness buildings when it gets too low anyway.

ThERat
Oct 27, 2010, 06:12 PM
This game looks far too easy...even though is king difficulty, it should be a little more of a challenge...sort of underwhelming.
Just finish off the enemy capitals as fast as possible I'd say

Methos
Oct 29, 2010, 01:21 PM
Sorry, my turnset is taking a lot longer then I planned. These turns take a while. I'm currently up to turn five. I've puppeted Montreal and the city to its southwest is on the razing countdown. I find it interesting that our enemies keep sending units up to our lands, yet they just sit there. I have one cho-ko-no and a riflemen there fighting them off and even though they have around five units around me, the AI isn't doing anything with them.

Ozbenno
Oct 29, 2010, 07:35 PM
The AI doesn't seem to attack very much, if units are wounded they seem to not attack at all. Very odd AI

Methos
Oct 30, 2010, 09:07 AM
Why is Shanghai building the Taj Mahal? It states it'll take 56 turns to complete! I'm guessing someone is trying to boost its size during the WLTKD, so I'll leave it alone.

Turn 231, 1605 AD: Turn Montreal into a puppet city.Provided a gift to Monoco, since our influence would degrade next turn to the point that we'd lose ally status. I bought a harbor in the Canadian Lake city, so that we can connect that continent. Did some killing, which I must say I really like Cho-ko-no's.

Turn 232, 1610 AD: I began research on Military Science.

IT: montepeaceoffer

Not sure what happened, but I'm missing some turn reports. :(

Turn 235, 1625 AD: Capture Genesse River and set it to raze.

Turn 236, 1630 AD: We gain another policy and I take the wounded units do more damage, since we seem to be fighting with only wounded units anymore.

Turn 237, 1635 AD: I may have just lost a knight. I was thinking he'd have move left to retreat and he doesn't. Adjacent to a city and a cat I'm not expecting much. :argh:

IT: The Greeks bring up several units from the south.

Turn 238, 1640 AD: I didn't lose the knight, but I did lose two Cho-ko-no's. :grr: I believe that's the firs two units I've lost this turnset. It's a bit of a squeeze and I'm not the best warmonger, so I think I'm going to pass it off right here before I make things too bad. Here's the front:

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/aw_game_current_front.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/aw_game_current_front_hex.jpg

We just earned a GG and I've done nothing with him. Sorry for the bad turnset. I puppeted Montreal, razed Genesse River, and Pharsalos is about to fall.

Here's the 1640 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games_civ5/mm21/saves/Wu%20Zetian_0238%20AD-1640.Civ5Save).

Ozbenno
Oct 31, 2010, 02:41 PM
Got it, will play in next day or so...

Ozbenno
Nov 02, 2010, 03:31 PM
I've been tight for time in RL recently, have played half the turns, will be finished today.

Ozbenno
Nov 02, 2010, 06:26 PM
OK played to turn 245.

Took and puppeted the two Greek cities of Pharsalos and Brantford. Provides a nice chokepoint.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1149/civ5screen0013.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0013.jpg/)

Trying to clear out Venice behind these two at the moment before moving on. Most of the troops are heading from the south Aztec and Egyptian, haven't seen anything Greek at all.

We could do with some more troops over in the new world so I have a rifle, lancer and great general headed over with a frigate escort. If happiness increases a bit (we can buy some buildings I suppose) then we can annex a couple of puppets on the war front to buy and build troops in.

Research is on Sci Method, not sure where we go from here on that front...

Arathorn
Nov 03, 2010, 06:50 AM
That puts me up, I believe. I will take a look at this tonight and hopefully play.

I'll probably buy some happiness buildings somewhere and keep pushing the war effort. Or maybe I'll say "Screw happiness" and just buy units near the front and put the pedal to the metal and see how many cities I can raze in my turnset. Will probably depend on my day here at work and the overall feel of the game when I open it up.

Arathorn

Arathorn
Nov 03, 2010, 09:17 PM
Played tonight. But too tired to give any kind of a report. Lost less than 7 cities, so that's good. :P :D

Arathorn

Arathorn
Nov 04, 2010, 08:18 PM
The front was in a bit of disarray on inheritance. Units from three civs were gathered all over the place. We had a narrow front, which was good, but it really limited troop mobility. A hyper-annoying Greek frigate parked near our only road and used its zone-of-control to make things even that much hairier. And, of course, our units were significantly injured. An exposed artillery had me nervous for many turns. But the AI never zerged it under. Nor did it take the very low hp city we had for a long time.

Eventually, though, I managed to clean up behind our lines a bit....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=271415&stc=1&d=1288920460

With no real choice, I puppeted it. Our happiness bounced between -5 and +5 pretty much my whole turn set. At least we had a Golden Age going (THANKS), so I had plenty of cash to rush colosseums when the need was really high. Some cities grew. Others didn't, really.

Many AIs grew weary of war. Rameses was the first to come begging for peace.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=271416&stc=1&d=1288920460

Over 2300 gold offered for peace? Nice. Of course, I turn him down, but it's a nice offer. And Rameses is very far away for us. BTW, Egypt had completed two social policy trees by the end of my turnset, so have to make sure he can't build Utopia.

With the troops from Dublin freed and that annoying frigate finally killed, I could start moving forward again. We really have no idea what the terrain or cities are like as we move forward. That makes things a bit of a challenge. Range 3 artillery is HUGE, though, and covers for a multitude of sins.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=271417&stc=1&d=1288920460

Nothing in Buffalo Creek, though, so I burn it to the ground. Or at least start on the process. LOTS of Aztec units appear in the area. They're all really outdated, though, so they're not going to be difficult to deal with.

Monte apparently realizes this, as he offers almost 2300 gold for peace, as well as a lux and a bit else....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=271418&stc=1&d=1288920460

No dice, Montezuma. It feels good to have you where I want you once.

Those back-up troops that Ozbenno had coming helped clean up things behind the lines. Ephesus was a pathetic little city. It's already burned down.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=271419&stc=1&d=1288920460

As the western front opens and our troops get healed, we can start moving forward much more rapidly. Two rifles and two artillery are sufficient to take down a city pretty rapidly. As long as they stay semi-healthy.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=271420&stc=1&d=1288920460

Knossus, with a colosseum, will make a better forward base than anything else. So I puppet it, for now. We can always raze later. But I think keeping it as a puppet makes sense, at least short-term. It covers its own happiness reasonably well, and it provides a good healing zone. We'll want to cover it with trading posts, of course.

That apparently convinces Alex his cause is in trouble. He's the third and final AI to come begging for peace. His offer is a bit more substantial....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=271421&stc=1&d=1288920460

And that's not all the cities he offered. Again, NO, but it's interesting to see what the AIs will give to get peace.

He retaliated to my denial of peace by killing a unit. It was the first (and only casualty) of my turnset. I had a rifle a bit too close to Athens without proper support and a frigate plus city plus cannon plus rifle finished it off. So sad. :( He will be missed.

Tech-wise, I researched Steam Power to improve our ship speed. Our research power is pretty lousy. It took nearly my full turnset. Of course, I was trying to maximize production since were in a Golden Age. Steam Power also leads to Replaceable Parts, which gives infantry, which will be nice to have. So that's the current tech. Railroads are also available and a reasonable (though probably unnecessary) tech to go after.

Here is the front...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=271422&stc=1&d=1288920460

Taj Mahal will complete on the first interturn, to trigger yet another Golden Age. ThERat will get to enjoy that production. Cities are still optimized for GA production, since one just ended and another is about ready to begin. :D Gotta like that.

We should be able to push forward fairly rapidly at this point. Athens is just to the north and an artillery is in range. That'll take care of one more capital. I'm not sure where the others are. But I don't think they'll take TOO long to find and dispatch.

Arathorn

ThERat
Nov 04, 2010, 08:48 PM
nice progress!

got it

ThERat
Nov 05, 2010, 07:29 AM
Played 10 turns fighting off Aztecs in the southwest initially. They are sending waves of useless units at us. Added were some Egypt rifles, but a combination of rifles and cavalry fends them off.

In the northwest, I made better progress taking Grand River from Greece and slowly advancing to Athens. This is the situation after 5 turns

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/707/mmaw265a.jpg

It takes several turns to bombard Athens and getting rid of 2 frigates that harass us, but at the last turn, I finally manage to take the city and annex it. I decide to do that so we can cash rush more units at the front as we got lots of cash. I would rush more infantry and artillery to shell the enemy. Now, that we have infantry, the enemy has little to offer as resistance.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8438/mmaw265b.jpg

The situation at the end of 10 turns. We have made little progress but I manage to eliminate quite a few units and lost only 1. We are now on the way to railroads. I left a few workers in our homeland alone to build those rails later.

Happiness again is pretty green and I suggest to keep all cities as puppets as we can afford that.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/262/mmaw265c.jpg

Arathorn
Nov 05, 2010, 07:48 AM
I like the choice of annexing Athens. A rush spot near the front will be most excellent. We'll probably want to annex another couple cities as the front moves. But we can always do that after they've been a puppet for a while.

Infantry will make progress much easier. We can almost afford to completely ignore the Aztec units now, since they're so outdated. They probably can't even kill an injured artillery at this point, so we can almost afford to just let cities bombard them as they move to pillage or to try to capture workers or whatever. Maybe use a lancer or two as mobile mop-up units.

We are loaded with cash. I see a few options:
- Buy in another maritime city-state as ally, so we don't have to worry about food at all (though many of our cities are already big enough, IMO)
- Cash-rush more happiness buildings so we can stay ahead of our advancing forces in happiness.
- Cash-rush units in Athens to speed up progress
- Sit on it because we don't need it

I think I'd go for cash-rushing units and happiness myself.

Arathorn

Methos
Nov 05, 2010, 08:57 AM
I'll be out of town without internet from now until Sunday afternoon.

Mark1031
Nov 06, 2010, 08:03 AM
Sorry guys but I'm going to need a skip. I am out of town till thurs and my laptop is not hot enough to play civV. Looking good though. This was too easy and I believe it is Emperor not King.

Ozbenno
Nov 06, 2010, 10:01 PM
Does that put me back up??

Think so, will try and get something played tonight.

Arathorn
Nov 07, 2010, 07:20 AM
Go for it, Ozbenno. Kind of a slog right now, but we should be able to continue making good progress.

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Nov 07, 2010, 02:26 PM
OK, will have a report up in 4-5 hours...

Methos
Nov 07, 2010, 02:55 PM
I'm back, so I guess I take it after Ozbenno?

Ozbenno
Nov 07, 2010, 07:09 PM
Turns take a LOOOOONG time. Won't get all 10 played today, will have to finish tonight. It is plain sailing (so far) though..

Ozbenno
Nov 09, 2010, 03:41 AM
With my limited time, 10 turns is abit of a slog but I got there...

Highlights are the exit of Alex

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5418/civ5screen0014.jpg (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0014.jpg/)

And the capture of the Aztec capital

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9484/civ5screen0015.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0015.jpg/)

Egypt is the last capital to take before victory. We don't have the greatest presence down there and I saw an infantry last turn.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7827/civ5screen0016.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/i/civ5screen0016.jpg/)

I accidently annexed a couple of cities instead of puppetingby misclicking:blush: so happiness is a bit of an issue but if we swing our troops down to the south and find the Egyptian capital then this is over...

I think Methos might be UP!!

Arathorn
Nov 09, 2010, 06:38 AM
The worse than -10 happiness hampers our troop's effectiveness, too. We probably want to deal with that fairly quickly. Even cities that have been annexed can be burnt post-facto, simply by entering the city screen and razing. We may need/want to do that for a couple cities, just to keep our troops in prime condition.

With ~400 gpt, too, we can rush happiness buildings every couple turns, which will also help. I see no reason not to do that, as the 33% (IIRC) penalty is not tiny, especially since Egypt has comparable troops to us. Really, though, artillery rock and we should be able to squash Egypt reasonably quickly, while either continuing against the Aztecs or just fighting a holding action against them.

Arathorn

Methos
Nov 09, 2010, 07:51 AM
Got it.

I'll see what I can do about rush-buying some happiness. If any of the cities he accidently annexed aren't very good, I'll raze them.

Methos
Nov 09, 2010, 01:05 PM
After loading the save I realize our unhappiness is at 21, not 13. We have enough :gold: to buy one colisuem and it appears all of our cities already have one (except the one I just purchased), so that's not going to be much help. I do sell the Public School in Jenne, since its currently burning. We only made 35 :gold: and saved 3 :gold:/turn. I start the burning of Tombouctu and sell one of its buildings, bringing our unhappiness down to 7.

I didn't have time to play any further, other then pressing 'end turn'. It appears most of our army is next to Monte, so I'm inclined to finish off Monte since everything is right here and one of their cities is about to fall. Egypt has a destroyer in the area of Monte and at the front is showing signs of both infantry and artillery. I hate to give Egypt too much time to get too many units, but I hate to walk away from Monte too. I won't be able to play again until tomorrow afternoon, so here's the 1812 AD save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272019&stc=1&d=1289333083) for those who wish to look at our current situation and state your thoughts.

Ozbenno
Nov 09, 2010, 02:12 PM
Monte won't be able to throw too much at us, I'd concentrate on Egypt.

Methos
Nov 11, 2010, 10:28 AM
My wife and I have today off (Veterans Day), so no Civ today. As Ozbenno has so aptly put it, I'll continue slogging through tomorrow.

Methos
Nov 12, 2010, 01:03 PM
Sorry, I got a bit sidetracked with my HOF Beta Gauntlet 3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=396429) submission and never got around to this. There's no way I can play over the weekend, so I might as well hand it off (assuming the next player can play over the weekend).

My apologies.

Arathorn
Nov 12, 2010, 02:15 PM
I think that puts me up. I'll see what I can do about it tonight/this weekend.

Arathorn

Beorn-eL-Feared
Nov 12, 2010, 03:18 PM
Curiously, in my shadow game, Rome had eaten away at everyone around them quite succesfully and were on par with me by the time I landed, no more no less - a few dozen turns and they would have been a dangerous runaway. The others were all beaten up and barely worth mentioning. In your game, it looks like they all stuck together a bit more, I see good units from each of them in the screenshots. Very different turn of events. It's probably much more fun in your version too :trouble:

Arathorn
Nov 12, 2010, 09:45 PM
Played but too tired to report tonight.

I rushed a bit and lost some units. Oh well....

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Nov 12, 2010, 11:17 PM
I rushed a bit and lost some units. Oh well....


At this stage we can afford some losses, the rushing is good :mischief:

Arathorn
Nov 13, 2010, 08:57 AM
We have a fair number of units and a LOT of unhappiness. I think there's a bug somewhere with calculating happiness during the game that ges resolved during save loads. Or save corruption makes happiness worse. Or something. Anyway, we have not enough cash for a theater and no places needing a colosseum. So fighting is minimal the first turn.

After that, though, I'm able to keep ahead of the -10 unhappiness penalty (even getting positive at times, as cities complete their burning), so we weren't TOO hampered by that.

Nearly all our forces were over by the Aztecs. I started moving many of them towards Egypt (a long walk over mostly just roads) while a fwe stayed around to deal with the remnants of Montezuma.

Meanwhile, our people are cultured!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272432&stc=1&d=1289662783

That particular policy is underwhelming but the ones after it are really nice. I don't think the game will last that long, but we might as well be prepared for any eventuality.

Warring, warring, warring. Egypt has quite a few units to kill, and we are thin on that front, so it's mostly defensive fighting there, until reinforcements arrive. Some are faster (cavalry and lancers-or-whatever-they're-called) than others.

Monte didn't so much have units. Four cities on their own don't provide much resistance.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272433&stc=1&d=1289662783

The last few units start trekking east.

Oooohhhh...target acquired!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272434&stc=1&d=1289662783

Even without artillery support, we can start attacking. I didn't expect to succeed in only one turn, but....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272435&stc=1&d=1289662783

Well, that's about it. Only a few AI cities left that we could've mopped up in probably 5 turns....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272436&stc=1&d=1289662783

Unfortunately, I didn't save at the very end, because (a) I didn't expect to win; (b) I was tired; (c) I'm an idiot; and (d) I've not set my autosave appropriately. So all we have is a few turns from the end. I'm sorry.

Fun game. Way too easy, though, ultimately. Thanks for hosting, Mark.

Oh, and those casualties I mentioned? One cavalry and one worker. :P We just had way too much power and the AI is too bad at war.

Arathorn

Ozbenno
Nov 13, 2010, 04:09 PM
Well done everyone, agree with Arathorn that this was way too easy but was plenty of fun.

ThERat
Nov 14, 2010, 07:50 PM
Congrats to the team. Unfortunately king is way too easy.

However, AW is the only way that Civ 5 is balanced currently.

Methos
Nov 14, 2010, 07:56 PM
Congrats everyone.