Q: I know PtW is fundamentally a PC game (with direct X or wahtever), but is there a possibility it might come out for the Mac. Out of 4 People including me of my friends that want PtW, two of us use Macs and are not going to switch.

A: <+Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS>I gave a source drop to the mac guys last week.

A: <+Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS>Go Infogrames, they green-lit it.

It's confirmed. Mac PTW is being produced. :king:

Celebrate!

Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ


It's confirmed. Mac PTW is being produced. :king:

Celebrate!
Okay.
WOO HOO! [party] Yeah, baby, Yeah!

...but that may be a bit of an understatement.

well that is just neato nifty :) I'll be one of the first to get it, mostly for the new civs and med inf and guerilla's. I wana see how I change my early game in light of a sword upgrade. Yay for mac PTW!!!

lateralis

I'll start thinking about getting excited once I have the editor.

I'm happy too, and I don't even use a Mac! I got friends who do and they are civ players, so it's going to make life more fun.

BtW, that was my question :)

:) HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY !!

One word: SWWWEEEEEEEEEETTTT!!!!!!! Time to pop the champagne b/c the fat lady is singin'! This bit of news has mad Civ III for mac cooler like ten-fold!(not that it already wasn't cool). It also said on Civ.com that it was coming for mac soon. I'm going to go check it out now to see if they have a date set.:) :D ;) :cool: :crazyeye: :love: :yeah: :beer: [party] :cooool:

Viva la Mac!
Now if I could only give back the Windows machine I built... :)

This is wonderful news! :D :goodjob:

Great call, Infogrames!:)

Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ
It's confirmed. Mac PTW is being produced.
Somehow, I expected a bigger reaction on this thread. Maybe a lot of convergent vacations going on here...

Maybe people are still holding their breath. There was that recent downplay from Brad, afterall. I can't begin to imagine why the discrepancy, but if his world is anything like my world, the guy that actually does the job is often the last to know.

THE QUESTION IS: what happens now? If PTW is confirmed, I'd imagine that's a lotta work ahead for our Mac heroes. I'd also imagine, since Brad seems the man most familiar, he will be a part of that team (if not most of that team). So:
• Is Brad a part of that team? I'm hoping so, since he seems to be a guy who is willing to wade among the masses here and at Poly.
• Does the evolution happen in careful, linear fashion? We go to the 1.29 patch, then we get the PTW option?
• Does the 1.21g beta editor get abandoned midstream? I'm hoping not, (I don't know if I can be truthfully emphatic enough about that and still appear sane) but I'd certainly like everything else to move ahead with dispatch.
• Will Brad's current editor work be the foundation for the 1.29/PTW editor, or is he locked in a futile effort? If there is a risk of abandoning the 1.21g editor in favor of the final goal, what are the chances we can tinker with the 1.21g beta editor (so we can at least start to "Civ different"®)?

Anyone? Brad?

Why life is so hard?

My time to play civ3 is getting less and less, and more joy is coming.

Anyway, Celebration!!

Originally posted by dojoboy
This is wonderful news!

I hate to be a wet blanket amid all the celebrating here, but this review is hardly enthusiastic about the PC version of PTW:

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/0,11114,561213,00.html

Oh well, I'm sure it will be a lot better than Heroes of Might and Magic IV which has to be the worst single-player experience I've had in years. On a brighter note, I picked up the Master of Orion III strategy guide recently. The PC version is due out any time now and I expect the Mac version in two months or less. From everything I've seen, it looks like it's going to be a winner.

gfeier, those negative reviews are lame. I just got PtW and it completes the game. The medieval infantry and guerilla make the game much more rounded out, and the new civs are lots of fun.

Originally posted by Hygro
gfeier, those negative reviews are lame. I just got PtW and it completes the game. The medieval infantry and guerilla make the game much more rounded out, and the new civs are lots of fun.

Glad to hear it. :D

Originally posted by gfeier


I hate to be a wet blanket amid all the celebrating here, but this review is hardly enthusiastic about the PC version of PTW: ....

gfeier, I too have PTW for my school club. It is good, now I'm talking SP here. I just don't get to play it much due to the club schedule. However, I'm brining my toshiba home for the Christmas break and will play it daily. Hopefully, any MP bugs, etc. will be well worked out by the time we see our version.

Originally posted by dojoboy


gfeier, I too have PTW for my school club. It is good, now I'm talking SP here. I just don't get to play it much due to the club schedule. However, I'm brining my toshiba home for the Christmas break and will play it daily. Hopefully, any MP bugs, etc. will be well worked out by the time we see our version.

I also expect to play single player almost exclusively, due to my schedule, so I'm glad to hear you like it. I'm wondering, though, if the Mac version will be compatible with the PC version. If it is, will the 1.21g-based editor work with it?

Originally posted by ejday
Anyone? Brad?

I can't say anything further until MacSoft makes an official announcement. Or put differently, by the time MacSoft makes an official announcement, all the contractual and development details will have been worked out. The one thing I can say is that the 1.21 editor will be released soon.

That's great! I think it's a sensible decision too - as I know lots of mac civ fanatics will buy it. Actually, even though I'll probably use the multiplayer function with friends, the thing I am really looking forward to is the new civs, like the Arabs and Carthaginians. Does anyone else think Koreans are a bit of an odd choice, as opposed to, say, Incas or Austro-Hungarians? I guess they're there for geographical balance? (Or maybe I just don't know my Korean history ;) !)

I guess those Koreans are there for the reasons that you mentioned, thomasash -- they were hugely dominant, and innovative, in the first millenium. And: I reckon the Koreans worked well in AoE2 (I notice that Firaxis, Ensemble and Blizzard tend to feed off one another) + there are a huge number of Korean game-players out there, mostly playing Lineage and Starcraft.

PTW4Mac? Kewl. It's no more than we deserve, I commend Infogrames/MacSoft for their commercial decision, but not for their customer service expertise. I will buy it and complete my part of the bargain, but I earnestly ask Macsoft to get a hold of their PR people and start communicating with their customers. Most of my goodwill is reserved for Brad and his contributions to our forums and I suggest that the publishers take note of how a little communication with fans can go a very long way. Yeah, I'm a little excited.

Originally posted by thomasash
Does anyone else think Koreans are a bit of an odd choice...
Nah, I think they'll add a certain spice (kind of like a fermented fish and cabbage combination...).
Originally posted by thomasash
...Incas or Austro-Hungarians? I guess they're there for geographical balance? (Or maybe I just don't know my Korean history ;) !)
I don't know much Korean history either (or at least not as much as I'd like). You would think the Incas would have a spot, all things considered, but with PTW's editor, somebody may yet add them.
Originally posted by Brad Oliver
I can't say anything further until MacSoft makes an official announcement. Or put differently, by the time MacSoft makes an official announcement, all the contractual and development details will have been worked out...
I think we're all hoping you're on the team, Brad. I may be assuming too much, but if not, good luck with negotiations. Lord knows: you have to deal with us...
Originally posted by Brad Oliver
The one thing I can say is that the 1.21 editor will be released soon...
...And you say all the right things, too!

Originally posted by Brad Oliver
The one thing I can say is that the 1.21 editor will be released soon.

Soon adv.
1. A length of time ranging of 1 microsecond to 10 billion years, depending on one's perspective.
Examples of use:
"The muon lifetime is about 2 microseconds, so the muon we're discussing won't decay any time soon."
"The sun will become a red giant soon, in a matter of only about 10 billion years."

No offense intended, Brad - I just thought this was funny in the context of your statement above.

Originally posted by Beamup
No offense intended, Brad - I just thought this was funny in the context of your statement above.

Don't worry - although I've noticed your continual barbs about the Civ3 editor, I haven't yet taken offense. In fact, I found your "optimistic" prediction in the other thread of 1Q 2003 funny. ;)

Originally posted by Brad Oliver
..although I've noticed your continual barbs about the Civ3 editor, I haven't yet taken offense...

You better watch out Beamup... you'll end up the subject of one of those secret Civ3 "Easter Eggs" ! ;)

Having a little fun w/ our [ugly] "step-brothers," so to speak!;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38751

Is it me, or did dojoboy's post just send the browser on a loop back to this thread?

Originally posted by Grey Randall
Is it me, or did dojoboy's post just send the browser on a loop back to this thread?

That thread is in the general section. I was just trying to be cute w/ our PC brethren, in regards to us also getting ...

PTW. [ :p ]

I guess we'll see how many pick up on it. Or, we'll see how "un-funny" I really am.

Originally posted by Brad Oliver
Don't worry - although I've noticed your continual barbs about the Civ3 editor, I haven't yet taken offense. In fact, I found your "optimistic" prediction in the other thread of 1Q 2003 funny.

I'm glad you found it funny rather than offensive, since I never intended offense. On the other hand, I also haven't meant anything I've said to be a "barb," though on further reflection I can see why you might feel that way. Most of my posts here (including the poll you referred to) were in the spirit of discussion among the regular (that is, the fans rather than the developers) members of the board, regarding a subject of substantial interest, rather than being directed at you.

To take a specific example, my post above about "soon" was not intended to convey the idea that I think you are deliberately being deceptive or misleading. As a matter of fact, I believe that you are being as honest and open with us as you are permitted to be, and I appreciate that, as well as the time you put in to keep us informed. In particular, I believe that what you meant by "soon" was what most people would expect in this situation - a matter of days or weeks. However, the word is rather context-dependent (as the examples I gave illustrate), and I thought it was funny to think about that here. Kind of a, "Well, it COULD technically have meant anything, and someone inclined towards conspiracy theories could have thought that was the sense in which 'soon' was intended, but isn't that ridiculous in this situation since it was clear what was actually meant?"

That being said, it certainly is true that, at the present time, I am not a satisfied customer, and I have not been attempting to hide that fact. In addition, I've been getting progressively more cynical and pessimistic (even, perhaps, a bit depressed) as time passes (as I gather you have noted).

I hope you can understand why it is I feel as I do, as well as the fact that there is nothing personal about it. On the professional level, yes, I am dissatisfied (with, I believe, quite reasonable cause), but I am not trying to make anyone feel persecuted, angry, offended, or anything else. My intent has always been simply to express my own feelings about the situation, nothing more.

This has become rather lengthy, I suppose, but I do want you to understand where it is I'm coming from. From how you phrased your post, it seems like my posts may have been giving an impression quite different from what I intended. I hope this has helped make it clear what exactly I mean now and have meant in the past.

Maybe I'm one of the PC drones, but the fact that PTW for Mac was not certain speaks to the downward spiral of the platform. If C3 had been made for Mac and the question was a port for PC, then that would have been different.

I will agree that that big ugly monopoly stole the show from apple, but you must also agree that apple sat on its hands while IBM clones took over the world. So now Macs are relegated to the back shelf. I remember when apple shut down a clone maker because it was doing a better job than the apple factories - how pathetic. They should have been glad to have someone make them focus on efficiency and marketshare.

If I read that QA right, firaxis is not even doing the port. They are just licensing the Mac people to do it.

Originally posted by alamo
Maybe I'm one of the PC drones, but the fact that PTW for Mac was not certain speaks to the downward spiral of the platform. If C3 had been made for Mac and the question was a port for PC, then that would have been different.

I will agree that that big ugly monopoly stole the show from apple, but you must also agree that apple sat on its hands while IBM clones took over the world. So now Macs are relegated to the back shelf. I remember when apple shut down a clone maker because it was doing a better job than the apple factories - how pathetic. They should have been glad to have someone make them focus on efficiency and marketshare.

If I read that QA right, firaxis is not even doing the port. They are just licensing the Mac people to do it.

Easy. ;) = friendly teasing, good natured, etc... You're right about the monopoly though.

Originally posted by alamo
Maybe I'm one of the PC drones, but the fact that PTW for Mac was not certain speaks to the downward spiral of the platform. If C3 had been made for Mac and the question was a port for PC, then that would have been different.

How would it be different? It wouldn't signal the downward spiral of the PC any more than it would the Mac - both are established platforms that have been around a long, long time. Along the same lines, it wouldn't make sense to panic because Return to Castle Wolfenstein wasn't ported to the xbox even though other Quake3-based games were.

There are business decisions involved with these types of things, and in the case of PTW, one of the bigger ones is the fact that it's been known since before PTW went final for the PC that Mac<->PC networking was not going to be possible. That obviously limits the appeal of PTW on the Mac to some degree, so that has to be factored in.

If I read that QA right, firaxis is not even doing the port. They are just licensing the Mac people to do it.

The Firaxis folks don't have a Mac programmer on staff. Nothing against their skills, but if they were to do the port internally while learning to program the Mac at the same time, odds are very good that the Mac version would be a bit rougher around the edges than having it done by developers who work on Mac games for a living.

This is actually a a common scenario across all platforms : most console ports are done by entirely different teams from the original platform, and it certainly doesn't signal anything unusual or bad. Our company did the Deus Ex port for PS2, for example.

Brad

You would think the Incas would have a spot, all things considered, but with PTW's editor, somebody may yet add them.

They have been added.. along with the Hungarians (my wife hates that..she's Romanian)..and heaps more that fill up the maximum of 31 playable civs in all in TETURkan's mod which is downloadable from
CFC and also comes in the PTW box..
The Incans and Hungarians :mad: use sween32's marvellous leaderheads.. which are also downloadable from CFC

Here are the leaderheads used by the incan's and Hungarians..(The hungarians use sween's
Robert the bruce Leaderhead.....)

Shame you can't post multiple images in one post on these forums

Originally posted by Architekt
Here are the leaderheads used by the incan's and Hungarians..(The hungarians use sween's
Robert the bruce Leaderhead.....)
Wow. That's pretty good.

Can't wait to get in there and tinker!

Atahualpa of the Incas:

Interesting that Robert The Bruce looks like MacFarland, the actor that portrayed Robert The Bruce in Braveheart.

Originally posted by Brad Oliver
The one thing I can say is that the 1.21 editor will be released soon.
Soon. I am repeating the "soon" mantra.

[placing hands in tantric mouse-click positions...]
Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon.
Sooooooooooooon.
Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon.
Sooooooooooooon.
Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Sooooooooooooon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon. Soon.
Sooooooooooooon.

There. I feel much better.

No I don't. Who am I kidding? I'm bordering on a hundred hours since I heard this latest "soon." Okay, I admit I am a Civ Addict and I have no control.

"Hi, I'm EJ, and I'm a Civ Addict..."
[nodding sheepishly to other Civ Addicts]

Yay

Let's hope we can bring some parity between the Mac versions and the PC versions.

...I'm hungry.

Wait.... Mac users won't be able to Play The World along side PC users? If that's ture then my plans are ruined! Let's just hope I misread...

Originally posted by Beamup


Soon adv.
1. A length of time ranging of 1 microsecond to 10 billion years, depending on one's perspective.
Examples of use:
"The muon lifetime is about 2 microseconds, so the muon we're discussing won't decay any time soon."
"The sun will become a red giant soon, in a matter of only about 10 billion years."

No offense intended, Brad - I just thought this was funny in the context of your statement above.

Ok, so, after all is said and done, any idea of what exactly was meant by "soon?" Perhaps a slightly more specific timeframe?

Originally posted by DiamondzAndGunz Ok, so, after all is said and done, any idea of what exactly was meant by "soon?" Perhaps a slightly more specific timeframe?

It's pretty close to done now. There are a handful of bugs to kill, then it needs to get approved. Your guess is as good as mine as to how long that will take.

cool brad, does this mean the vanilla civ will be at 1.29 when ptw is released?

Originally posted by Brad Oliver
There are a handful of bugs to kill, then it needs to get approved. Your guess is as good as mine as to how long that will take.
A handful. Well, with those big beetles from the jungle, that could be one bug. Three or four bugs if you go with the average urban combat cockroach. 20-30 bugs if you're talking about the average woodpile earwigs...

Sorry, just wasting time until the next update.

Originally posted by Brad Oliver
then it needs to get approved. Your guess is as good as mine as to how long that will take.

I hear about this "get approved" step frequently, but I've never understood what it means. I know it's what happens after the code is written, debugged, and tested, but what exactly is involved? Who exactly is approving it, what is it they need to approve, and why? I naively would've thought that once the beta test confirms that it's working as intended without bugs, that would be the end of it, but it doesn't sound like it.

Just curious (and interested in how things work, whether they're my field or not).

Originally posted by Beamup
Who exactly is approving it, what is it they need to approve, and why?

It varies from game to game. Obviously the first line is the Mac publisher, but they typically have been tracking the game all throughout beta, so that's no big deal. Usually it also means that it goes back to the original PC developer and possibly the original PC publisher. They both dig around in their basement for a Mac, install the software and satisfy themselves that it works. In some cases, there are other parties involved - EA games have to have every last thing inspected by EA legal, NASCAR has to get approved by literally every driver represented in the game. Wolfenstein has to get the thumbs up from Activision, id, Grey Matter and Nerve - unfortunately for it, one of those 4 companies is very, very, very slow to approve. In some cases, the PC publisher has to approve the copy and artwork that goes in the Mac press release and website.

But to bring this back to the editor, I'm not entirely sure who does what with it after we're done. I suspect in this case, MacSoft will make sure that the final copy doesn't self-destruct and probably just post it.

Brad

Thanks for explaining that - I always wondered what was going on and why it sometimes took a day and sometimes months (a la RTCW, as you mention)!

Great :goodjob: :santa: :santa:

I am so happy that I am going to cry and hug my monitor!

I can't wait to play Spain, or to beat Spain. Queen Isabella seems so smug that I want to piss her off and see her angry mug as I demolish her empire. heheheh. And I am of Spanish decent too!

A hearty thanks to all those involved with the Mac-PTW lobby!

I recently had a very interesting thought about the multiplayer aspects of "Play The World" for the Mac.

Shouldn't it be possible to integrate Apple's Rendezvous technology into the game to ensure stable Mac-to-Mac play connections? It's quite simple and obvious once you think about it!

Of course, this won't help with the Mac-to-Windoze connections (if this is even possible?). It's still an interesting idea...

Originally posted by MinutiaeMan Shouldn't it be possible to integrate Apple's Rendezvous technology into the game to ensure stable Mac-to-Mac play connections? It's quite simple and obvious once you think about it!

Rendezvous is a discovery protocol - it allows an equipped Mac to automatically detect other rendezvous stuff on your network. This would be useful for detecting other users on your LAN you want to play, but doesn't have too much of an impact beyond that. For games that use stuff like MSN Gaming Zone and GameSpy on the PC, we substitute GameRanger on the Mac. It's a pretty good way to organize net games outside of your LAN. i.e. the internet. If Mac PTW comes to pass, I'll take a look at integrating Rendezvous, but I don't expect that it'll improve the netplay experience for most users. Actually, I'm working on a Galactic Battlegrounds patch now, so I may use it as a guinea pig for Rendezvous to see how well it works there.

Verrrrry Interesting...
Originally posted by Brad Oliver
If Mac PTW comes to pass...
IF I were a betting man, I'd take this as the signal that -- despite announcements and reassurances -- contract negotiations for PTW are still unresolved. Considering the recent and disappointing news about the Neverwinter Nights toolset port (or lack thereof), this isn't surprising.
Yet more clues from Brad Oliver
Actually, I'm working on a Galactic Battlegrounds patch now...
Again, if one was to read into this, first conclusions would be that Brad has finished the editor and handed it off to darker forces for eventual release. That's a big "if", of course, and I wouldn't expect Brad to comment.

???
:smoke: For something completely different:
I'm posting this off of Apple's new "Safari" browser, and I must say: this little guy is pretty snappy. All the smilie animations stay true to their intent... so far, I am impressed.

Go download it quick, before it gets out of beta and Apple does something heinous... like charge for it.

EDIT: Oops. Found a bug. While it recognizes bullet points [that's "option-8"] in the text field, it loses it in the translation. Those question marks were originally bullet points as a seperator.

As far as reading into things goes, one could note Brad's defense of the idea of concurrent editor release/PTW announcement and read into it that actually being the plan. Though this is still reading into things.

Also, I would point out that Mac PTW has not yet been officially announced, and I would expect that nobody involved in that (including Brad) would be allowed to make public comments confirming it before the official announcement. So Brad's comment above is not necessarily inconsistent with negotiations being complete and an announcement will be made at Macworld later this week.

Originally posted by ejday

IF I were a betting man, I'd take this as the signal that -- despite announcements and reassurances -- contract negotiations for PTW are still unresolved.

Until you see an announcement from MacSoft, it is safe to assume that the Mac port is not a sure thing. I've said this before, but perhaps not as clearly as I should have.

To put this in perspective, we've (Westlake) done code analysis and bids on several games that never saw the light of day on the Mac. Some of these break my heart, others I'm grateful got dumped or fell to another porting house (because of code complexity or stigma). Ignoring the NDA aspect of this stuff, it's dangerous for us to talk about these things until they're a Sure Thing.

Again, if one was to read into this, first conclusions would be that Brad has finished the editor and handed it off to darker forces for eventual release.

I haven't received any additional feedback that indicates I need to address anything, but then again, a number of key people are at MacWorld this week, so I'm not expecting to hear much either way until after MacWorld.

I should mention that I have to be very careful in what I say concerning releases, features etc. as I'm not in a position to make official announcements (that's MacSoft). If I hint that A will come to pass and everyone takes that as gospel when in fact B happens, no one is happy. :o

Brad

"Say, you're an engineer at Area 51, right?"
"Right."
"You guys work on anything over there, recently?"
"Nope."
"Didn't that new stealth fighter just come out of there?"
"Yup."
"Doesn't that mean you guys were working on it?"
"Uh... nope."
Originally posted by Brad Oliver
Until you see an announcement from MacSoft, it is safe to assume that the Mac port is not a sure thing. I've said this before, but perhaps not as clearly as I should have.
Oh, you're perfectly clear, Brad. Worry not, your NDAs are uncompromised (and we realize you're walking a fine line as our "undisclosed source"). Legal department are encouraged to holster their pens, we're taking our enthusiasm from a different source: the front of this thread:
Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ
Q: I know PtW is fundamentally a PC game (with direct X or wahtever), but is there a possibility it might come out for the Mac. Out of 4 People including me of my friends that want PtW, two of us use Macs and are not going to switch.

A: <+Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS>I gave a source drop to the mac guys last week.

A: <+Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS>Go Infogrames, they green-lit it.
Don't take it personally, Brad, you're still our Prince of Porting. This is like journalism: believe your source, but check the source and have more than one source.

However, considering your constant and carefully measured pessimism, we have to wonder a few things:
1.) Does Westlake have exclusive rights to accept this porting job from MacSoft and/or deny that a port can be done by anybody else if they decide to pass on it?
2.) Is Jeff Morris in a position to make such pronouncements.
3.) Was Jeff Morris mistaken or premature? (If so, I'm sure he hates it when that happens)
4.) If Infogrames says "go" (and this is assuming a top-down parent company-subsidiary hierarchy), can MacSoft say "no"?

Originally posted by ejday
:smoke: For something completely different:
I'm posting this off of Apple's new "Safari" browser, and I must say: this little guy is pretty snappy. All the smilie animations stay true to their intent... so far, I am impressed.

Go download it quick, before it gets out of beta and Apple does something heinous... like charge for it.

EDIT: Oops. Found a bug. While it recognizes bullet points [that's "option-8"] in the text field, it loses it in the translation. Those question marks were originally bullet points as a seperator.

Downloaded it, and it seems to work great. Things are, in fact, a bit faster compared to Chimera. Some things also seem to look a bit better. Just one problem that I found, nothing major, but it still bugs me a lil: The little mac "title bar" for the forum Mac OS X theme doesn't extend all the way accross the top of the frames. Looks just fine in Chimera, but when I checked it up in IE, it's the same as with Safari. Hmm, is it just me, or is it supposed to be like this? :confused:


Ahh, well, back to the topic. Since this thread was indeed started to announce that there WILL most likely be a Mac port of PTW, I hope we won't be disappointed...

And another thing. I'm not sure whether this has been asked before or not, but will it be possible to play against PC users with PTW? Assuming, of course, all the multiplayer bugs are worked out and it starts working correctly (:D). I'd really love to play a couple of my friends, since they recently got PTW on their PC's, and are nowhere NEAR as good as me..... ;)

I think that's all I have to say... for now....

Originally posted by ejday


However, considering your constant and carefully measured pessimism, we have to wonder a few things:
1.) Does Westlake have exclusive rights to accept this porting job from MacSoft and/or deny that a port can be done by anybody else if they decide to pass on it?

We've placed the first bid on the project, but if MacSoft rejects that, they can certainly look for a bid from someone else. While we've had cases where the publisher has passed on our bids, I don't believe it's happened on a project where we've been familiar with the code, as typically those bids are fairly low considering a lot of the heavy lifting has already been done.

Take a look at the Neverwinter Nights port. MacSoft had contracted with Omni to do the toolset, and it looked like that was going to happen. Then it turns out that the bid Omni did on the toolset was short by *6* months, which (according to what I read on the web) blew MacSoft's budget. Unfortunately, MacSoft had announced that they were looking into doing the NWN toolset and people took this to mean that it was a Sure Thing. Could the sales hit from this affect MacSoft and their budget for other projects? I sure can't say.

/2.) Is Jeff Morris in a position to make such pronouncements.
3.) Was Jeff Morris mistaken or premature? (If so, I'm sure he hates it when that happens)

In a word, "sorta". Firaxis has had a fairly laid-back approach to their Mac ports. They let us do our thing and give us technical help, but they otherwise defer on most of the other Mac issues to MacSoft and ourselves. They tend to keep fairly informed on what happens with the Mac port, and they are quite open to receiving bug fixes that we make in the Mac code. In that respect, they seem fairly in touch with what we're doing on the Mac side, and that puts them ahead of most other PC developers that I've had to deal with.

As for #3, even if Infogrames says the Mac port can go ahead, that's no guarantee that it will. Jeff's info on this is probably as good as mine, which is not that good. ;) I don't think he (or Firaxis in general) can influence the decision, as typically the rights for Infogrames titles are held by Infogrames. I could be wrong though.

4.) If Infogrames says "go" (and this is assuming a top-down parent company-subsidiary hierarchy), can MacSoft say "no"?

I have no idea. I'm sure that finances play a role in the decision at all the levels, so if it turned out that the cost of a Mac port wouldn't turn anywhere near a profit, they'd have to reconsider and accept a "no" from MacSoft.

Keep in min that this is mainly speculation on my part. I don't work for MacSoft and have no real insights as to their corporate structure, finances or anything else. I'm going strictly on my own common sense and what I've learned in dealing with these projects over the past few years.

Originally posted by Brad Oliver
...this is mainly speculation on my part.
But very informed speculation, so we appreciate your contributions Brad. Thank you.
Originally posted by DiamondzAndGunz
The little mac "title bar" for the forum Mac OS X theme doesn't extend all the way accross the top of the frames. Looks just fine in Chimera, but when I checked it up in IE, it's the same as with Safari. Hmm, is it just me, or is it supposed to be like this?
I didn't notice that problem but maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing. Can you take a screen grab, size it down and point it out? Or maybe set-up an OT thread in the main forum...

If it is an issue, send Apple a little report with that "bug" button in the top right corner (I've sent two already... though I do love this browser).

How much longer are we gonna wait, can I have a guestimate...
...and in the meantime are there any sites that regularly post information that involve Civ 3's baptism into the light

Its going to be a while. If I had to guess, I'd say 6 months to a year. MacSoft was just sold last week, so I imagine negotiations are on the back burner. :(

Then i'm better off forgetting about PTW for a while i playing aoc until then...
that makes me sad :(

Okay, here's one for you Mac geniuses:
Since PTW is months and months off (at best), and Gramphos has open-sourced his CPT (Civ Placement Tool - a bridge to v1.29), where can we look for a programming wizard to port the code to X?

FYI --- Just off the phone w/ Destineer (MacSoft Corporate office) and there is currently no discussion taking place on porting PTW over to the mac. :sad:

Originally posted by dojoboy
FYI --- Just off the phone w/ Destineer (MacSoft Corporate office) and there is currently no discussion taking place on porting PTW over to the mac. :sad:
"currently no discussion." Hm. Okay, I can accept that currently, there is no discussion. Maybe there will be discussion this afternoon or this evening, instead...

[Don't clarify the semantics, my version is happier.]

Just before reading ejday's post, I was ready to scream NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! :cry: From another person's point of view who hasn't played Civ III, it wouldn't make a difference to them if there's a port or not. But from a Mac user's point of view, well, lets just say that this other person had better stay below our radar for the rest of their naive life. :tank:

Ok, who do we have to kill???

What do we need to do, start a petition, kidnap someone's family, hire a hitman? Come on, this is rediculous, this game has to have a larger following that some of those other crap titles they are porting to mac.

I'm really getting pissed that I can't play online. I'm nearly to the point where I'm going to buy a cheap pc just to play this game. If I only had to space.

How does it run in VPC on a 1GHZ+?
Any one want to start a petition or a hitman fund?

Originally posted by dixonbm
Ok, who do we have to kill???

What do we need to do, start a petition, kidnap someone's family, hire a hitman?

Maybe if you made more violent threats...or perhaps threw in an insult or two to those who might be in a position to make such a decision. Yeah, that'd probably work. :rolleyes:

Brad,
Don't take the death threats to realistically, it's just our continued frustration with the state of Mac software in general (and gaming software specifically). I'd personally love to see us here take up a collection and pay you to port v1.29 and PTW, but I'm sure that Infogrames and MacSoft would have a thing or two to say about that.

As mentioned in previous posts re: the editor, most of us are frustrated at getting software that is one (or more) improvements behind PC software -- and paying the same price. I understand the economics of the situation, but I'd be willing to bet that at least some of us would be willing to spring for a bit more $$ to be kept at patch parity with our friends in the PC world. Most of us are used to spending more for Mac stuff anyways (case in point -- Jaguar).

As far as PTW goes, I almost don't care if I can play against my friends running it on PC's, I'd still like the added civs and features (and the prospect of playing against the other mac users on this forum).

I say we start an online petition to get Infogrames to pony up and port PTW (at least) to Mac. Anyone think this will work?

JP

Originally posted by Brad Oliver


Maybe if you made more violent threats...or perhaps threw in an insult or two to those who might be in a position to make such a decision. Yeah, that'd probably work. :rolleyes:

Sorry, when I made my comment I was more or less joking, well not about the petition part. And I didn't mean for the comment to be directed at you, I was thinking of the executives who make the decisions about which games to port to the mac.

Please take no offense. I was just venting, and again not in your direction but the executives who make the decisions.

Originally posted by jpalacino

I say we start an online petition to get Infogrames to pony up and port PTW (at least) to Mac. Anyone think this will work?

I would recommend holding off on hassling people, at least for the near term. Hopefully you guys will see why shortly.

In the meantime, are any of you guys playing the closest Mac equivalent to PTW: the GOTMs? Each game features a PTW civ to play, and the rules are slightly modded PTW. DiamondzNGunz and others have also been creating files that will allow us to play at close to 1.29 level.

Originally posted by Brad Oliver


I would recommend holding off on hassling people, at least for the near term. Hopefully you guys will see why shortly.
Hm... this sounds promising.

(Though maybe any form of the word "promise" might be inappropriate for the subject)

OK,
I don't know what Brad knows that we don't (obviously reams of information), but I'm willing to be patient. If it only takes half as long to port PTW to the mac as it did for Adobe to release Photoshop for osX, I'll be happy.

As far as the work of DnG and Senecasax (as well as Brad's unpaid OT) on the editor, I have to wonder why that isn't more embarassing for Infogrames and MacSoft. Yet again, we are left with incomplete software, and the modders are left to try and catch the rest of us up to the PC world.

I have learned to not expect software updates on the same timeframe as PC users, but is it unreasonable to expect an eventual achievement of parity?

Patches and upgrades are a zero-sum game for vendors (they rarely generate much additional income -- except for the sale of "Game of The Year" -- completed software packages). The only major value-add for them is respect, from the gaming community for fixing perceived shortcomings and testing new applications within the larger game.

As far as the GOTM's go, that's great, but it's only one game a month (admittedly, I'll rarely get more than one or two games a month done). Additionally, the processs for prepping a game for Mac seems to be non-trivial for Cracker and his crew. I am also at the stage where Monarch/Deity games are well beyond my capabilities. The last GOTM, I got left bloodied and redundant pretty quickly.

If the situation on patching was reversed, I'm sure that the PC crowd would be much less patient than we have been.

JP

i have seen PTW on a PC and it pretty cool, adds quite a bit of spice to the game, i was just sorry to see that they did not spice up the lame diplomacy while they were at it. Nuclear missles actually blast off--cool. However, i can say that i will not purchase this game if it does not have the editor (not the current one, although it has spiced up the game a bit, and i am thankful for it, i am tired of having Romans appear in America next to the Chinese). So, i would like to know if the full package will be produced this time around, PTW and the 1.29 (?) editor?

Originally posted by Brad Oliver


I would recommend holding off on hassling people, at least for the near term. Hopefully you guys will see why shortly.

OK, I am torn between lament not knowing how long "shortly" is and just plain old giddy!

Thanks for the taunt Brad! You keep me going! (As if the emotional thrill of conquering your enemies wasn't enough!)

:king: :worshp:

Is it shortly yet?

Hmmm....holding.....see why shortly.....perhaps we are getting the PTW and Conquest in one pack!


Or is this wishful thinking? :(

Originally posted by Melinder
Is it shortly yet?

No, unfortunately not yet. I've got a few tricks up my sleeve, so I'm optimistic those might bear some fruit. However, I'm reluctant to say more because I don't want to screw things up, plus a lot of it depends on my spare time.

In other words - assume that nothing is happening. The last thing I want to see happen is for someone to get the wrong impression in their head and then start flaming away at Firaxis, MacSoft or myself when nothing materializes. That way if something does happen, we can start celebrating after everything has been safely locked down. :)

In marketing terms there's an interestng concurrency of events occurring, well ... shortly.

MacSoft control two of them: more 'newness' for Civ3 in PTW and Conquest; and the decision on whether to port Brian Reynolds rival, 'Rise of Nations' (it's not turn-based, but it is definitely a contender for our dollars). MacPlay are releasing EU2 and that will also be attractive to us.

Personally, I want the lot, but I'll invest most in the one that will provide gameplay, novelty and expansions over the longest time. Civ3 certainly has the track record. However, Brian and the 'BigHuge' crew have a wonderful product.

Thanks for the reply Brad. I won't assume anything. As long as my little flame of hope can continue to burn ! If anything falls out of your sleeve, I'm sure you'll let us know.

Not exactly what we want to hear, Brad, but I certainly don't have room to complain when you've already gotten at least one version of the editor AND the 1.29 patch out almost single-handedly. Thank you! :)

Brad,

Any news on Enter the Matrix port to Mac? I bet it will be one of the highest selling games. A mac port seems likely wouldn't it?

Enter the Matrix = Webber?
http://www.westlakeinteractive.com/projectstat.html

Originally posted by dixonbm
Any news on Enter the Matrix port to Mac? I bet it will be one of the highest selling games. A mac port seems likely wouldn't it?

Haven't heard a thing.