View Full Version : Natural Wonders Mod Development Thread


Skinnydoc331
Sep 30, 2010, 10:34 AM
Natural Wonders of the World Mod
(Updated 10/3/10)


Goals of the Mod
1. Provide a database of natural wonders that can be used in custom maps and mods. As many or as few of the wonders could be used to balance gameplay for a particular map or mod.
2. Fair distribution of the natural wonders so that no particular starting location has an unfair advantage of multiple wonders being close to them.
3. Diverse wonders represented that cover most aspects of our planet.
4. Have variety in the wonders' bonuses (gameplay balance issues are most important). As of now, finding a wonder give +1 happiness permanently and the wonders each procedure 2 hammers and 3 gold (correct me if I am wrong).

Initial Plans:
1. The seven in game wonders will remain as is. Tweaks to there bonuses will be made.

2. Planning to releas the additional wonders if groups of seven at a time. This will give me a chance to get feedback and make changes in a more managable fashion.

3. Natural Wonder Bonuses/Penalties/Etc…
Culture - initial culture boost upon discovery (60-90 range), +1-2 culture per turn to who ever controls the hex
Happiness - +1 happiness to whoever controls the hex
Gold - +2 gold to whoever controls the hex
Food +1-3 food depending on the wonder (if the hex is controlled)
Production +1-3 production depending on the wonder (if the hex is controlled)

4. Movement - most wonders will be impassible and unable to make improvements on.

5. Buildings - National Park improvement - this building/improvement would be linked to technology that would be researched between 1800-1900. Give +3-5 gold(?), +3-5 culture (?) and +3 happiness (?).

Things need help/advice on
1. Main issue will be with the artwork. I assume I can use the base art files in game, but what is the next best resource? Pictures? 3d models from other sources?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Tentative Release Plan for Natural Wonders:

IN GAME ALREADY:
Old Faithful Geyser - N.America
Grand Mesa - N.America
Barringer Crater - N.America
Rock of Gibraltar - Europe
Mount Fuji - Asia
Great Barrier Reef - Oceania
Krakatoa - Oceania

1st Release:
Niagara Falls - N.America
Angel Falls - S.America
Cliffs of Moher - Europe
Mount Kilimanjaro - Africa
Mount Everest - Asia
Mount Damavand - Asia
Uluru (Ayers Rock) - Oceania

2nd Release:
Grand Canyon - N.America
Denali - N.America
El Tatio - S.America
The Matterhorn - Europe
Victoria Falls - Africa
Ngorongoro Crater - Africa
Huangshan Mountain - Asia

3rd Release:
Redwood Forests - N.America
Great Blue Hole - N.America
Alpamayo Mountain - S.America
Zuma Rock - Africa
Dead Sea - Asia
K2 - Asia
Kilauea - Oceania

4th Release:
Paricutin - N.America
Cotahuasi Canyon - S.America
Mount Etna - Europe
Avenue of theBaobobs - Africa
Sundarbans Forest - Asia
Chocholate Hills - Asia
Ross Ice Shelf - Oceania

CyberTyrant
Sep 30, 2010, 10:38 AM
I could see adding a few, but let's not get carried away. :p

The hardest part of this mod would be making the actual tile graphics.

Skinnydoc331
Sep 30, 2010, 11:25 AM
Since these are terrain features, you can use as few or many as you wanted in a particular map.

Eejit
Sep 30, 2010, 11:50 AM
For Europe perhaps add the Giant's Causeway. Is there a particular reason why the Aurora is listed as North American? ;)

I'm also not sure why you've included some of the existing Natural Wonders in your list, but not others.

labrynianrebel
Sep 30, 2010, 12:45 PM
You could edit/copypaste some preexisting terrain for new wonders

Mt. Fugi + more snow --> Denali
Grand Mesa --> Ayers Rock
Snowy Mountain --> Mt. Everest
Coast Tile --> Lake Baikal, Lake Titicaca
Rock of Gibralter + a little snow --> Mount Killamanjaro
Great Barrier Reef --> Red Sea Reef
Barringer Crater + jungle --> Mount Tambora
Barringer Crater + water --> Crater Lake
Old Faithful --> The Great Geysir
Krakatoa --> Parícutin, Mt. Saint Helens

That's 12 more natural wonders right there

CommanderZ
Sep 30, 2010, 01:08 PM
How do you want to make Grand Canyon...I don't think you can go UNDER normal terrain level.

Jennar
Sep 30, 2010, 01:16 PM
Each Natural wonder you make will have to be individually coded into the AssignStartingPlots.lua. Just adding it to the XML will do nothing. Just a heads up.

Skinnydoc331
Sep 30, 2010, 02:30 PM
In the world map editor you can simply plop the natural wonders in any hex. My assumption was that when people make a world map they would have a database of wonders to use as they wish.

Voyhkah
Sep 30, 2010, 03:11 PM
I like this idea! but the Sahara Desert is really just a desert and the Amazon is just a rainforest. Maybe scratch those two.

Maybe the great blue hole (Yes, I know what it is, it's a network of deep submerged caves in the Bahamas) could be like crakatoa and be always on an island.

Perhaps all the Natural Wonders provide Culture like the great artist's landmark improvement, but some give extra science, gold, culture, or happiness. And perhaps some give great poeple points.

And maybe there 's an improvement you can build with ecology or something called a "National Park" that gives more culture and happiness.

Also, perhaps a randomly generated map starts with a randomly chosen few natural wonders, not just the same ones over and over. That would be really intresting, because you'd never know what you're going to get!

Jennar
Sep 30, 2010, 03:17 PM
In the world map editor you can simply plop the natural wonders in any hex. My assumption was that when people make a world map they would have a database of wonders to use as they wish.

For world builder yes it should work, but any generated map through the game will not deploy any added wonders without modifying that LUA.

salaminizer
Sep 30, 2010, 03:21 PM
what do you mean by Harbor of Rio de Janeiro?
you could add the Cataratas do Iguaçu in South America, or maybe the Pororoca (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoqixgRWxes), if it's possible to make it appear in a coast tile with a river in its border (and even though it's some sort of temporary phenomenon)

as you're planning the Sahara, you could add the Atacama desert. and the same with the Kilimanjaro, in South America there's the Aconcagua.

Optimizer
Sep 30, 2010, 03:47 PM
Can we make the North and South Poles function as Wonders?

Voyhkah
Oct 01, 2010, 02:43 PM
Hmmmm... Possibly.

BTW, maybe you should change Krakatoa to have a new name and not be a volcano? Because I can't see how an incredibly destructive eruption would make people happy.

Chibiabos
Oct 01, 2010, 04:27 PM
Yellowstone National Park is already covered a bit by Old Faithful geyser.

And to those who argue the Amazon rainforest is just another rainforest ... oh good grief, Fuji is just another mountain!

If you're going to add the Grand Canyon, that would have to follow a river through the desert and mountains, and it would lack a flood plain (since the Colorado River is very well confined within the canyon walls).

I suggest considering some of the world's great rivers as Natural Wonders -- the Nile, the Mississippi, the Amazon river, etc. They should act as a free trade route (why don't rivers do that anyway? :/) and, some time after researching Electricity, have an option to build buffer-than-normal Hydroelectric Dams, that potentially offer hammer bonuses to several nearby cities.

Aurora Borealis seems kinda silly as a natural wonder -- its visible from any sufficiently northern lattitude and, given the greater landmass, would be visible more from Russia (northern Asia), and there is an identical phenomenon in the southern hemisphere you can view from Australia, South America or southern Africa.

Pouakai
Oct 01, 2010, 04:45 PM
Yes yes yes!!!

Finally, someone adds more natural wonders, or at least, it working on it.

My suggestions would be to scratch the following:

North America
1. Aurora Borealis - How would you model it?
10. Yellowstone National Park - Old faithful

South America
1. Harbor of Rio de Janeiro - Replace with Sugar loaf, which I think is included in the Christo Redentor model
6. Amazon Rainforest (?multiple hexs?) - Just a rainforest, but also really big

Africa
8. Sahara Desert (?multiple hexs?) - Just a desert, but also really big


And in addition, add in:

Africa
1. Stone forrests of Madagascar

Asia
1. Seven Dragon Valley

Europe:
1. Eyjajaffajokull

Oceania
1. Milford Sound
2. Pink and white terraces
3. Mt. Ruapehu


Also, you mentioned a penalty for building on top of one, but what if you got increased gold on a natural wonder if you build a 'Tourism lodge', which represents increased tourist yield.

Fetus4188
Oct 01, 2010, 05:52 PM
Suggestions for NA:

Zion
Bryce Canyon
Yellowstone (already exists as Old Faithful)
Yosemite -> El Capitan or Half Dome
Chimney Rock
Crater Lake
Lake Tahoe

some mountains
Mt. St. Helens
Mt. Banner
Grand Teton
Whitney
Denali, please don't call it McKinley
Wilson
Kiluaea
Shasta

Stormfather
Oct 01, 2010, 06:01 PM
How do you want to make Grand Canyon...I don't think you can go UNDER normal terrain level.

I believe rivers go down a bit.

a1Basco
Oct 01, 2010, 06:33 PM
Carls Bad Caverns for North America.

Seriously, ever been there? It kicks ass. =p

Oh, or in Colorado Springs, the Garden of the Gods. It's breathtaking =p

SomethingWitty
Oct 01, 2010, 06:42 PM
Crater Lake is a good natural wonder that should make for a nice pretty and recognizeable tile. Maybe an easy editing of Barringer Crater? I have no idea how to edit tiles.

SomethingWitty
Oct 01, 2010, 06:46 PM
And to those who argue the Amazon rainforest is just another rainforest ... oh good grief, Fuji is just another mountain!

I suggest considering some of the world's great rivers as Natural Wonders -- the Nile, the Mississippi, the Amazon river, etc. They should act as a free trade route (why don't rivers do that anyway? :/) and, some time after researching Electricity, have an option to build buffer-than-normal Hydroelectric Dams, that potentially offer hammer bonuses to several nearby cities.

Aurora Borealis seems kinda silly as a natural wonder.

Mt Fuji is unusually beautiful and symmetrical, it makes sense.

The Amazon rainforest is rather ugly, bland, and spread out over many thousands of square miles. It'd be like an extra big section of jungle tiles. Maybe better for a mapscript.

Rivers get the extra gold per tile. Represents the same IRL trade benefits of rivers.

Agreed about the aurora borealis. There's also the aurora australis, and in Civ there are many more southern civs to observe them.

Buccaneer
Oct 01, 2010, 06:53 PM
I love the idea of having a large list of natural wonders for the game to randomly choose from. But I hate the idea that there would be more of them. One doesn't presume the other.

Necro-
Oct 01, 2010, 07:11 PM
what about the idea of improving said wonders

for example building a mine on mount fuji which would give a big production bonus?

Szpilman
Oct 01, 2010, 07:56 PM
As someone else pointed out, there are only a few Natural Wonders in vanilla because AssignStartingPlots is really careful about where to place each, having specific code for each one.

I'd really want to see people favor quality over quantity, instead of adding a bunch of reskins actually take the time to make full fledged new wonders that also work with Lua's scripted placement.

oChuckles
Oct 01, 2010, 08:28 PM
I think "New England Autumn" might be a fun one. You could make it the only tile with the "autumn" graphic.

Skinnydoc331
Oct 01, 2010, 08:50 PM
Thanks for all the replies guys! I'm working on scaling back the initial wonder list to be more managable as well as not try and put something out that is poor in quality.

I'll update the first post this weekend. For the artwork I'm going to start poking around some of what has been done in Civ 4.

Keep the suggestions coming, they help a ton for a novice (i.e. dummy :D ) like me.

Thalassicus
Oct 01, 2010, 11:06 PM
I think this is a fantastic idea. It adds more variety to the game and improves the fun factor!

It does make sense to first do simple renames of existing wonders (like various mountains that all use the Mt. Fuji graphic), then branching out into new graphics once that stage is done.

Pouakai
Oct 02, 2010, 12:48 AM
Thanks Skinnydoc. I just suggested most of mine because I felt NZ needed to be represented

tehwallaby
Oct 02, 2010, 05:35 AM
I feel it pertinent to mention that Ayers Rock is called Uluru, and should be represented as such.

Ranbir
Oct 02, 2010, 06:10 AM
To do the amazon....it should be like the monsoon jungle in SMAC. Where a region of terrain has a special jungle feature which grants extra resources.

Skinnydoc331
Oct 03, 2010, 02:20 PM
First page updated.

labrynianrebel
Oct 07, 2010, 11:26 PM
Angel Falls will be such a beautiful thing to find :)

Also said technology you mentioned could be simply called "Tourism"

Voyhkah
Oct 11, 2010, 08:55 AM
Are you still working on this?

Omega124
Oct 11, 2010, 10:32 AM
Here's some suggestions:

The Black Forest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Forest)
Cliffs of Dover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliffs_of_Dover) (Completely different than the Cliffs of Moher, BTW)
Mount Vesuvius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Vesuvius)
The Great Salt Lake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Salt_Lake)

sputnik323
Oct 11, 2010, 01:59 PM
How do you want to make Grand Canyon...I don't think you can go UNDER normal terrain level.

The Grand Canyon isn't necessarily below "normal terrain" either. On the north side its 9,000+ feet in elevation. From the top it looks like a giant gap between very large tall plateaus. In game it would have to take up more than 1 hex though.

Skinnydoc331
Oct 11, 2010, 05:11 PM
Still trying to work on it...between family (wife and two kids), and being a physician, it's been pretty busy lately.

I'm trying to work things out but if someone with more skills who could do it faster wanted to run with this idea or some part of it, please go ahead.

labrynianrebel
Oct 11, 2010, 09:33 PM
Since there are seperate (several in fact :P) parts of the first release, it should be easy for someone else to give a hand, any takers?

Pouakai
Oct 13, 2010, 03:22 AM
You could probably get someone else in who has allready made several tech mods for the tourism tech, they might be able to do the national park improvement as well, and a 'park ranger' unit, based on the same coding as the work boat, it gets consumed by building a national park, which can only be built on a natural wonder.

If I knew how to mod natural wonders I would help for sure.

Pouakai
Oct 23, 2010, 02:38 AM
-bump-

I've got FiresForever to add in a Tourism category for his categorised Tech Tree. I'm going to (attempt) to mod in a Tourism tech that requires Steam Power, which allows you to build national parks on natural wonders with selected units, and a handful of other buildings.

labrynianrebel
Oct 27, 2010, 07:41 PM
Now here's the real question... what will Tourism's quote be? :P

Supercheese
Oct 27, 2010, 07:49 PM
Now here's the real question... what will Tourism's quote be? :P
I've been everywhere, man,
I've been everywhere, man,
'Cross the deserts bare, man,
I've breathed the mountain air, man,
Of travel I've had my share, man,
I've been everywhere.
That. :p

Pouakai
Oct 27, 2010, 10:05 PM
The fool wanders, a wise man travels.


How about that one? I reccomend you google 'Tourism quotes'

Pouakai
Nov 04, 2010, 01:17 AM
Bump.

Can I get some more opinions on this before I start?