This program is based on mydisease's Tech Research Formula he posted in the Civ3 General Discussion forum. Here! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29485)

TechCalc 2.01
For all versions of Civilization III. (Patched versions).

Here's a preview
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/techcalc201.jpg

***********************************
TechCalc Readme VERSION 2.0
Programmer: Grey Fox, AKA Fredrik Henriksson
Formula: mydisease
This is a free program and I hope you enjoy it!

***********************************
This is a program that calculates your tech cost
based on various factors:
- Which tech you are researching.
- Map Size.
- Difficulty.
- Number of Civs that you have contact with that has the tech.
(Including you if you have the tech. Can be checked in the Diplomacy Screen)
- Number of Civs left (including YOU!)
- Gold already invested.

Turns left on the technology is based on:
- The Tech cost
- Beakers per turn. (Gold into Science, check in F1 screen in Civ3)
- and Gold already invested.
------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to:
- mydisease for figuring out the Tech Cost formula!
- anarres for helping me with some problems and suggesting features!
- kring, for noticing that v.1.01 didn't have an icon.
- vbraun for suggesting the Gold Lost feature!
- and everyone that has downloaded the program so far (Although I don't know how many) and to those that will download it in the future. That is my reward, that people uses my program and appreciate it.

------------------------------------------------------------
Revisions
------------------------------------------------------------
Additions v.2.01
- Added a button for adding the Beakers Per Turn to the Gold Invested edit box.

Fixes v.2.01
- Fixed the rounding problems with the Turns Left.
- Fixed some rounding problems with the Combat Calculator and some other issues.
----------------------------------------------------------
Additions v.2.0
- Program reprogrammed from the foundation up.
- Ability to load textfiles with the Tech Names and costs (which makes it possible to change the use of the program, to use it with a mod, Scenario, Conquest, or another version of the game).
- A Combat Calculator, with everything needed to be useful. :)
- A simple *regular* calculator, that can add, subtract, multiply and divide.
- An area where you can keep short notes.
- You can now see how much gold that will be lost.
- You can now enter how many turns you've researched.
------------------------------------------------------------
Additions v1.5
- Added Function to calculate Turns left.
- Added a "Gold Invested" edit box.
- Added a new icon.

Changes v1.5
- Changed the integer limit on "Nr. of Civs left" and "Nr. of Civs with tech" to 31, from 32.
- Changed the interface to fit with the new features.
- Removed the Static Dll file from the .exe-file. (The file only takes about 35 kb now)

Fixes v1.5
- Fixed the TechCost calculation formula. It should work almost perfect now.
- Fixed the Invisible-Icon bug.
------------------------------------------------------------
Additions v1.01
- Added human error check on number insertions.

Changes v1.01
- Changed the interface just a little.

Fixes v1.01
- Fixed the Tech List.
- Fixed the Formula Rounding errors.
------------------------------------------------------------

Please report bugs etc in this thread.
Suggestions on improvements are always welcome.

UPDATED: December 16th - 2003
This file is 19.5 kb
TechCalc v2.01 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45491)

This file is 453 kb
mfc42.dll (http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/mfc42.zip) - needed for those who can't run the program

You didn't include the science funding.

Excellent :goodjob:

@Toasty, I think it tells you the total cost of a tech. If you want to know number of turns left (as I think you do), then it would need also the exact number of beakers collected so far. The only way to do this is from the savefile, but this is not the intended useage methinks.

GreyFox, this is excellent. I appreciate the work you have done - I was considering something similar myself as I could never be bothered to work out the numbers by hand and was using a spreadsheet.

Thank you Grey Fox.

Grey Fox, have you been taking programming lessons from the Firaxian "Play The World" School of Programming? I am no programmer but I can infer the following errors from the results your program gives:

1. There is a hole in the first half of the tech tree in the middle ages. The missing techs being (after Construction) Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering, Theology, Chivalry, Invention, Printing Press, Music Theory, Education, Gunpowder, Banking (then Astronomy). However, the techs named after Construction refer to the tech costs of all the techs in the correct order so all the actual costs are offset by 11 backwards (after Construction, before then they are fine).

2. All costs for Monarch are noticeably too low and costs for Deity sligthly too low. The inverse of both of these cost factors (ie. 1/9 and 1/6) gives recurring roots so I suspect that the error will be due to rounding done by the computer at too early a stage. I know little about programming but can you not do it so the program works outwards from the most internal bracket and this way avoid rounding at this point.

3. Devaluation rate is not working properly, this being especially noticeable for very early techs. As no. of civs that know the tech increases, cost should decrease in a fairly linear manner, but in fact your program gives big drops. I think the most internal bracket(or is it the most infernal bracket;)) is rounding up to the nearest 1 rather than the nearest .1 and this is causing the problem. Mathematically this part of the formula is better expressed:

.1 * ROUNDUP[10 * COST * N/ROUNDDOWN(CL * 1.75)]

Where ROUNDUP and ROUNDDOWN is to the next integer.

I think the devaluation when other civs have the tech isn't working correctly even taking this into account.

4. No. of civs with tech cannot be bigger than no. of civs left. You might want to put an internal check to make sure this is the case before calculating.

5. By giving no. of civs left a range of 1 to 31 (rather than 1 to 16) you are hypothesising that the formula I found for 1.29f is also true for Play The World. It may well be the case, but bear in mind that nobody has tested this hypothesis and I don't have Play The World and so can't test it.

6. You write "Nr.", bravely defying the general consensus of "No.". Ah well, its a free country.

7. Its two megs! That's 2/3rds the size of the civ3 executable!

Sorry if all that was a bit critical.

Originally posted by mydisease
4. No. of civs with tech cannot be bigger than no. of civs left. You might want to put an internal check to make sure this is the case before calculating.

7. Its two megs! That's 2/3rds the size of the civ3 executable!Not that GreyFox needs me, but I can answer these:

4. When I tried putting a greater number of civs with the tech than is in the game, it gave me '0' as an answer. This seems appropriate action in this case. A different logic on the form would make it harder to use.

7. It has a static DLL built in. This is to ensure that if you don't have the DLL used by GreyFox on your machine it will still work anyway as the necessary parts of the DLL are incorperated in to the file. A smaller version could be built, but then you may not be able to use it. Otherwise complain to micro$oft ;)

I'm looking forward to the technical issues being resolved as well, I hadn't reached that far in techs in my game yet :).

Edit: anarres learns to spell :rolleyes:

Originally posted by mydisease
Grey Fox, have you been taking programming lessons from the Firaxian "Play The World" School of Programming?
Hehe, :lol: I'm not perfect :p
1. There is a hole in the first half of the tech tree in the middle ages. The missing techs being (after Construction) Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering, Theology, Chivalry, Invention, Printing Press, Music Theory, Education, Gunpowder, Banking (then Astronomy). However, the techs named after Construction refer to the tech costs of all the techs in the correct order so all the actual costs are offset by 11 backwards (after Construction, before then they are fine).Oops, sorry... copy/paste error here...

2. All costs for Monarch are noticeably too low and costs for Deity sligthly too low. The inverse of both of these cost factors (ie. 1/9 and 1/6) gives recurring roots so I suspect that the error will be due to rounding done by the computer at too early a stage. I know little about programming but can you not do it so the program works outwards from the most internal bracket and this way avoid rounding at this point.I am working outwards, from the most inner bracket. Check next qoute.

3. Devaluation rate is not working properly, this being especially noticeable for very early techs. As no. of civs that know the tech increases, cost should decrease in a fairly linear manner, but in fact your program gives big drops. I think the most internal bracket(or is it the most infernal bracket;)) is rounding up to the nearest 1 rather than the nearest .1 and this is causing the problem. Mathematically this part of the formula is better expressed:

.1 * ROUNDUP[10 * COST * N/ROUNDDOWN(CL * 1.75)]

Where ROUNDUP and ROUNDDOWN is to the next integer.

I think the devaluation when other civs have the tech isn't working correctly even taking this into account.Yes, the devaluation error is because I totally left out the .1 in the 2nd rounding. The reason for that is because I had no Idea how to implement it.

4. No. of civs with tech cannot be bigger than no. of civs left. You might want to put an internal check to make sure this is the case before calculating.Can't number of civs that have the tech be bigger then nr of rivals left, by 1? (because you could do the check you everyone have the tech, including you :) for whatever the reason :p)

and yes, I was too lazy to implement a check... :p

5. By giving no. of civs left a range of 1 to 31 (rather than 1 to 16) you are hypothesising that the formula I found for 1.29f is also true for Play The World. It may well be the case, but bear in mind that nobody has tested this hypothesis and I don't have Play The World and so can't test it.Sorry, the range of civs left should be 32. This is because you can play with up to 31 Rivals in PTW (and 24 in Civ3), so if you play with that many you should be able to use the program. And yes I think it will work for PTW, and if it doesn't... well so be it.

6. You write "Nr.", bravely defying the general consensus of "No.". Ah well, its a free country.Yes I'm brave! :)
No, sorry I forgot. It's "Nr." in swedish, and I'm swede... Will change that immediatelly.

7. Its two megs! That's 2/3rds the size of the civ3 executable! Yep I know... that's because a static library is included which might not be needed in some windows versions, but most probably in the 9x versions... but I will make the next version without it, and we'll see. (I really included it by mistake, but if Mac users can use the file because of it, it's nice having it included...)

Sorry if all that was a bit critical. No, don't be sorry.

The reason to why I released the program was to get feedback from mainly you. Especially about if the formula worked as I did it.

Well Thank you! :D

I will get right on the bugfixing!

Originally posted by mydisease
Mathematically this part of the formula is better expressed:

.1 * ROUNDUP[10 * COST * N/ROUNDDOWN(CL * 1.75)]

Where ROUNDUP and ROUNDDOWN is to the next integer.So, should I use that instead of:

ResearchCost = Down((MM/CF)*(Cost-Up.1(Cost*N/Down(CL*1.75))))

??

Ok, I think I fixed all bugs and errors now (exept the static dll).

I got one question to you mydisease.

This part of the formula = Up.1, does that mean that 1.45121 should be rounded to 1.5?

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Can't number of civs that have the tech be bigger then nr of rivals left, by 1? (because you could do the check you everyone have the tech, including you :) for whatever the reason :p)

and yes, I was too lazy to implement a check... :p

I think you misunderstand the civs left(CL) bit of the formula. This means the number of civs left INCLUDING your civ, NOT the number of rivals. And hence number of civs that have the tech can only equal number of civs left if every civ including you has the tech.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
This part of the formula = Up.1, does that mean that 1.45121 should be rounded to 1.5?

Yes, that's exactly it. So try:

ResearchCost = ROUNDDOWN((MM/CF) * (Cost - (.1 * ROUNDUP(10 * COST * N/ROUNDDOWN(CL * 1.75)))))

In fact, I might change the formula to this. It works out the same and its less ambiguous. Though my maths teacher would kill me if he saw all those round brackets;).

And I was only joking about "no.", actually I kind of like "nr." better.

Originally posted by mydisease
I think you misunderstand the civs left(CL) bit of the formula. This means the number of civs left INCLUDING your civ, NOT the number of rivals. And hence number of civs that have the tech can only equal number of civs left if every civ including you has the tech.


Though, in fact, I'm being an idiot on this one and you are right no. of civs with the tech can be bigger than no. of rivals by 1.

And quoting myself:eek: .uuurgh

Originally posted by mydisease


Though, in fact, I'm being an idiot on this one and you are right no. of civs with the tech can be bigger than no. of rivals by 1.You'r sure?

I'm done with the formula now. All roundings are in, and it's based on your first formula, not the new one you posted here.

I justed checked it in game. It seems to work quite nice when I included my own civ in the Nr. of rivals left edit box.

gf: as the name implies, i use macs. i would be happy to test this out for you, as soon as .net comes back on line. just PM me to remind me, seeing as i am a tad *understatement* forgetful

I'm sorry, CivFanatics.net doesn't work at the moment.

So I can't upload the newest version.

I will upload it to my own server, temporarily.


EDIT: Updated the first post with a new url to the newest version. Beta 1.01.

It works well for me, but I should try the latest version,
it only allows 2 civs with the tech already I think.

Would be nice if users could change the techtables used, maybe from reading a text file.. for different mods.
In my mod I have increased mostof the tech costs as my tiles produce more money as all my laborers make -1 in taxes so cost a lot.

Originally posted by Admiral PJ
Would be nice if users could change the techtables used, maybe from reading a text file.. for different mods.I will add this in a future version. (I'm still learning windows programming, so don't expect it tomorrow :p)

Hey, i haven't looked at the program yet, although i'm sure it will be a great help for the lazy (myself included).

Just FYI grey, your link for the tourney doesn't work... i'm interested, so pls post other info or PM me!

Originally posted by Quillan
Just FYI grey, your link for the tourney doesn't work... i'm interested, so pls post other info or PM me! It's because Civfanatics.net is down. Go to the Tournament forum here at Civfanatics if you want to learn more about the competition.

Number of civs you know have the tech...

Do you include your own civ?

E.G. I am alone with my brother and I want to sell him astronomy.
X civs you know have the tech

Originally posted by LaRo
Number of civs you know have the tech...

Do you include your own civ? If I'm not totally wrong. Yes.

Originally posted by mydisease


Yes, that's exactly it. So try:

ResearchCost = ROUNDDOWN((MM/CF) * (Cost - (.1 * ROUNDUP(10 * COST * N/ROUNDDOWN(CL * 1.75)))))

In fact, I might change the formula to this. It works out the same and its less ambiguous. Though my maths teacher would kill me if he saw all those round brackets;).



Also, I don't know what computer language you used Grey Fox, but many languages have something like the following...

ceiling(1.45121 , .1) = 1.5
floor(1.45121 , .1) = 1.4

and if you replaced the .1 with .01, you would get 1.46 and 1.45 respectivly. The complier normally assumes a 1 value for the second value thus rounding to the nearest integer.

It would be more effiecient (not that that would be worth a hill of beans as a user sees it) but would make for easier debugging.

Well, now I feel like the king of the geeks :king: .. I mean Greeks... yeah, thats it... hoplites rule.

Just d/led the second one; for some reason, it doesn't have an icon. It is in my folder, just showing as a blank spot that has Tech Calc underneath where the icon should be. I can hover over it and it shows the Tech Calc info, as does right clicking it. If I explore the zipped file, it shows a blue border square application (typical app icon). The earlier version had a red icon. It works if I click on where it is supposed to be, just no icon above the Tech Calc space. Looks kind of like this:




Tech Calc

with the empty space above it where the icon would be.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
You'r sure?

I'm done with the formula now. All roundings are in, and it's based on your first formula, not the new one you posted here.

I justed checked it in game. It seems to work quite nice when I included my own civ in the Nr. of rivals left edit box.

Yes, the formula I worked out uses total number of civs. But what I mean is that you could use no. of rivals left in the program, but the program would then have to add 1 to it before it worked in the formula.

EDIT : This now works fine as it is, so ignore the entire contents of this post. They are the delusional ravings of a madman.

Originally posted by LaRo
Number of civs you know have the tech...

Do you include your own civ?

E.G. I am alone with my brother and I want to sell him astronomy.
X civs you know have the tech

In this case, the cost of researching the tech for him would be determined by the number of civs he knows that have the tech. So yes, you do include your own civ.

Couple of things which don't seem right:

Rounding is still wrong on Monarch and Deity. The results given are lower than would be expected from the formula. Eg.

Integrated Defense, Huge, Monarch, 0 civs know the tech, 10 civs left. The formula gives:

N = 0 so UP.1(COST * N/DOWN(CL * 1.75)) = 0
COST * MM = 360 * 400 = 144000
144000 / CF = 144000 / 9 = 16000
Research cost from the formula is 16000. Research cost from TechCalc is 15840.

Integrated Defense, Huge, Deity, 0 civs know the tech, 10 civs left. The formula gives:
N = 0 so UP.1(COST * N/DOWN(CL * 1.75)) = 0
COST * MM = 360 * 400 = 144000
144000 / CF = 144000 / 6 = 24000
Research cost from the formula is 24000. Research cost from TechCalc is 23760.

From this it is possible to infer that TechCalc is working out MM / CF separately and then rounding the result of this down. So for the Monarch example, it is doing:

MM / CF = 400 / 9 = 44.44444444 = 44
44 * 360 = 15840

And for Deity:

MM / CF = 400 / 6 = 66.66666666 = 66
66 * 360 = 23760

This can be avoided by working out [COST - UP.1(COST * N / DOWN(CL * 1.75))] first. Then multiply the result of this by MM. Then divide by CF and the result should be correct.

Occasionally costs are 1 gold too low. Eg.

Bronze Working, Standard, Regent, 8 civs know the tech, 10 civs left. The formula gives:

COST * N = 3 * 8 = 24
DOWN(CL * 1.75) = DOWN(17.5) = 17
COST * N / DOWN(CL * 1.75) = 24/17 = 1.41
UP.1(1.41) = 1.5
COST - 1.5 = 3 - 1.5 = 1.5
1.5 * MM = 1.5 * 240 = 360
360 / CF = 360 / 10 = 36
So Research Cost from the formula is 36. TechCalc gives it as 35. I have no idea why this could be, but I could only find a few instances of it.

Other than these minor problems, its looking good.:goodjob:

Now I read the Caution part that it contains math.

So the tech costs 16000. How could I tell how many turns it'll take for it to compute?

Originally posted by hbdragon88
Now I read the Caution part that it contains math.

So the tech costs 16000. How could I tell how many turns it'll take for it to compute? Divide 16000 by the number of beaker per turn you are getting (F1 - 'Science' number)

An important side note:

If you are getting 1 science per turn, after 10 turns it says you have 30 turns left. This does not mean you have 1/4 of the science researched - it means you have 10 beakers, and a maximum 30 turns left.

In this case, you would need 16000 - 10 = 15990 more beakers, not 16000 - (1/4 * 16000) = 12000, so if you put your science rate up at this stage it will still cost almost the full amount.

The same goes for buying these techs from the AI - they only offer you a discount worth 10 beakers, not 1/4.

I mention this as I believe in an early version of civ3 it was the opposite - you could get 1/4 discount from the AI after 10 1-beaker turns.

Next version of the program will most probably fix the minor calculation fault that gives you somewhat wrong numbers.

Any new features you would like added to the program?

I might add the possiblity to load a techlist from a textfile.

Might also add the possibility to calcuate how fast you can research the tech with a given Science per turn.
And also display how much science you would have to spend to get the tech in [any] amount of turns (maybe ranging between 4-40, although the 4 limit would only be on not started techs...)

I might also remove the static library. This will make the file about 150Kb or something in that range.

What features would you like?


Come with input, the earlier I get it. The more likely it is I will implement it.

Could you give us a menu option 'automatically calculate' that would update the numbers automatically if checked? I can't imagine the time to calculate each time would slow it down much.

As well as a 'beakers per turn' field, we should have a 'beakers already researched' as well, so we can work it out. Maybe even a load function to load the savefile and get that info as it is not obvious unless you are paying very close attention to the F1 screen. The savefile thing I imagine is a lot of work though, and might even get the app banned from GOTM and tournament. Personally, I am happy to count my beakers now I have an exact total to aim for :)

What is the dll compiled in? It would be best to offer a link to the dll as well if it is redistributable if you take it out the compile, so that if people don't have it they can download it.

I have thought about the possibilty of merging several apps together, such as mapstat, apollo, techcalc and combatcalc. This is much more long term, and would require woring with the other utils developers. I would be happy to lend a hand, but as with these things it depends on how protective of their code programmers are (as of course they have a right to be).

Originally posted by anarres
I have thought about the possibilty of merging several apps together, such as mapstat, apollo, techcalc and combatcalc. This is much more long term, and would require woring with the other utils developers. I would be happy to lend a hand, but as with these things it depends on how protective of their code programmers are (as of course they have a right to be). Yep, I have thought about that too, and I have already asked the maker of the Civ Assistant Tool (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34114) if he would like to include my utility into his program.

The Civ Assistant Tool is at the moment just a Combat Calculator, but he intends to include utility similar too notepad, and a ScreenShot program, probably a program that does a print screen and saves that immediatelly.

The Civ Assistant Tool is skinned and you can easily go to the program without going out to windows, by pressing alt-c or something, havn't tried yet.

Originally posted by anarres
Could you give us a menu option 'automatically calculate' that would update the numbers automatically if checked? I can't imagine the time to calculate each time would slow it down much.
Will try.

As well as a 'beakers per turn' field, we should have a 'beakers already researched' as well, so we can work it out.Yeah, I know... didn't say that in my previous post though.
Maybe even a load function to load the savefile and get that info as it is not obvious unless you are paying very close attention to the F1 screen. The savefile thing I imagine is a lot of work though, and might even get the app banned from GOTM and tournament. Personally, I am happy to count my beakers now I have an exact total to aim for :)Yeah, I have the code to DeCompress a save, but I have never worked with hex-codes... but there are some help here and on apolyton on how the saves work, so I could check those out some day.

I'm planning to do a 2nd utility that will help modding next, and that will need to look at a Bic/Bix file and get some values. I might do that before I include a get info from save option to this program. (Although in this program, wouldn't it be quite unnecessary to get the beakers from the tech your researching, you can always see how many turns you got left on it anyways...)

And why do you think it would be banned from the GOTM?
What is the dll compiled in? It would be best to offer a link to the dll as well if it is redistributable if you take it out the compile, so that if people don't have it they can download it.I will have to do a new MFC project to remove the DLL from my program, and that means either rewrite the program, or copy paste the things I already written (duh! :p). But that shouldn't be too tricky...

And I would have to find out what .dll file it is, so I can offer it as a download aswell. Of course.

It will probably be downloadable from MicroSofts website though.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
And why do you think it would be banned from the GOTM?I don't think it will get banned, just that it might, because it gives you info that you can not get from the save within the game itself. Some may agrue that being able to see you number of collected beakers is like being able to reload an old save to see that state on that turn (so 20 turns in to a tech, it would be like opening 20 previous save games and counting the beakers from each). I am not quite so puritanical, and this would not bother me, but I have seen the energy that some have about any utility, that's all.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
I will have to do a new MFC project to remove the DLL from my program, and that means either rewrite the program, or copy paste the things I already written (duh! :p). But that shouldn't be too tricky...Try Project (menu item)/Settings. General tab, Microsoft Foundation Classes combobox - select 'Use MFC in a Shared DLL'

This works on most small projects - only compiling it will tell you if yours is ok. There can be issues in some complex programs (I think the 'Pre-Processor Defines' are slightly different), but in most simple cases it is fine.

Grey Fox:

A feature to load games? Somewhat like Gramphos's C3MT program. Or would that defeat the purpose of the tool?

The next version of this program will come VERY soon.

Although, I'm getting a Debug Assertion Failed error. If anyone can help me on that one, please do.

And anything you REALLY want in the next version that hasn't been mention in this thread yet, mention it now, and I might inckude it.

TechCalc v.1.5

Faulty version of 1.5 removed after 6 downloads.

The file is only 8.3 kb

V1.05

I cannot open it because: Unable to find file MFC42D.DLL

GreyFox: did you sort out your error? I tried to PM, but your store is full.

Originally posted by LaRo
V1.05

I cannot open it because: Unable to find file MFC42D.DLL MFC42D.DLL is the file grey fox removed from the program, to make it smaller. If you had the file on your system it would work. (This is normally found in c:\winnt\system32).

However, I think GreyFox has released the debug version by mistake, as the correct dll to use is MFC42.DLL.

If this is the case, GreyFox should be able to recompile the program as a release version. The correct dll it should be using is MFC42.DLL and it is very likely you have this already, so that version should work.

Yes... I didn't know that I was supposed to switch to release version... well know I do. Sorry you 6 guys and gals who already downloaded the new version. This is my first Windows program, after all...

The release version of TechCalc1.5 is now available.

It's working perfectly now, good job!

Thank you!

Yes, working nicely now. Just two small suggestions, you might want to program the default maximum and minimum turns to research a tech from the editor. Ie. 3<Turns Left<41.

Also, any time you delete everything from a box, it pops up with an error. Couldn't you make the program put a zero in empty boxes rather than come up with this error.

Originally posted by mydisease
Yes, working nicely now. Just one small suggestion, you might want to program the default maximum and minimum turns to research a tech from the editor. Ie. 4<Turns Left<40.

I was going to do that. But what if you already have invested 1-3 turns in the tech? Then you should know how much money to spend to get it in 1. (Good if you can only get it in 2 turns and you want to know how many scientists you should create)

Also, any time you delete everything from a box, it pops up with an error. Couldn't you make the program put a zero in empty boxes rather than come up with this error. Yeah, I noticed that... I will look into it.

I'm gonna do the CivEdit types of number edit-boxes later, when I figure out how to implement them.

Alternative formula you might want to use in the program:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Rcf2.jpg

This formula is a rearrangement of the other one and probably simpler to program, though I don't know there would be any point in changing to this one as the two are the same.

Techcalc 1.5 is not calculating the correct amount in my game. I have just discovered Education and have not given it to anybody else, so nobody else can research Music Theory. My total beaker output is 123/turn, map size is either standard or large (can't remember and but 1 counted 100 across so I think it's standard -- can't tell by looking), Regent, 8 civs still exist. I get Music Theory in 4 turns, (so <500 are required) but the calculator says 960 or 1280 gold, depending on what the map size really is. This is correct according to the formula but not what is happening in the game.

This is PTW/MP, so it could be a PTW/MP bug or change. I know there are many known PTW bugs, including difficulty level bugs. I know that the difficulty level is working at least partially correctly because there are only 2 citizens "born content" in each town.

Could I get the Save to check?

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Could I get the Save to check?

Warning! This is PTW patch 1.14f!

My guess: PTW bug.

End the turn, and then when the "We discovered Education" popup comes up go to "the Big Picture", choose Music Theory, and then press F1 to adjust the science slider.

If you like, contact all the other civs to verify that none have education.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/music.SAV

BTW I did not enable accelerated production. An accelerated production checkbox is a suggestion for an enhancement.

The Gunpowder entry for deity seems to be waay waay low. Anybody else notice this?

Sorry, sumthinelse. I will look into that.

And Carthouche Bee, I'll check that aswell. Nice sig ;)

Originally posted by Grey Fox
- and everyone that has downloaded the program so far (Although I don't know how many) and to those that will download it in the future. That is my reward, that people uses my program and appreciate it.

Grey Fox, 1st I'd like to say that I've used (and will continue to use) your program, and appreciate it :goodjob:.

One little quibble, I think you're rounding the Turns Left down rather than up.

I.e. I'm currently on a Large Map at Monarch level and just started researching Steel at 1263gpt, no AIs have started it yet :

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/DianthusGOTM21_AD1230Domestic.jpg

Tech Calc says that it should only take 3 turns :
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Dianthus_TechCalc.png

The Tech Cost looks about right, but 4977/1263 = 3.941 turns, which rounds up to 4 turns.

That's probably because you can't research a tech faster then 4 turns.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
That's probably because you can't research a tech faster then 4 turns.
Thats true, but 90% was the lowest I could use for 4 turns, 80% (1122g) takes 5 turns, which is 4977/1122=4.436 rounded up.

Does this tell me if a trade offer is good... So many times I'll see something like:

He offers Writing and wants Our Masonry + 32 Gold... I don't know if this is good or not so I always refuse...

Also, he'll offer me techs when I have 1 turn left... what's up with that....

Well, you need to know a whole lot to use this program effectively. That is you need to know or guess who have what tech. It won't do that for you. In that way this program never cheats, it's just a specialized calculator for your needs.

GreyFox,

I have found a small bug in the program, i am using version 1.5.

It seems the turns left to research rounds down, according to what i see it should round up. I shall cite a few examples:

Game one: Science at 7 per turn, Emperor, Standard Map
Cost of Masonry = 120 (no other civs with that tech)
Base turns to research = 120/7 = 17.1

Tech Calc shows turns left = 17
PTW 1.21 shows turns left = 18

Cost of Mystacism = 120 (no other civs with that tech)
Base turns to research = 120/7 = 17.1

Tech Calc shows turns left = 17
PTW 1.21 shows turns left = 18

Cost of Wherl = 120 (2 civs with that tech)
Base turns to research = n/a, since 2 other civs have the tech

Tech Calc shows turns left = 14
PTW 1.21 shows turns left = 15

Game two: Science at 23 per turn, Monarch, Huge Map
Cost of CodeOfLaws = 444 (no other civs with that tech)
Base turns to research = 444/23 = 19.3

Tech Calc shows turns left = 19
PTW 1.21 shows turns left = 20

Cost of Literature = 444 (no other civs with that tech)
Base turns to research = 444/23 = 19.3

Tech Calc shows turns left = 19
PTW 1.21 shows turns left = 20

Cost of Polyethism = 533 (no other civs with that tech)
Base turns to research = 533/23 = 23.2

Tech Calc shows turns left = 23
PTW 1.21 shows turns left = 24

It does give the right number if the basic tech cost divides evenly by the number of gold you are putting into scince though.

Never really used the utility later on in the game ie past the middle ages, but it looks pretty good otherwise..very handy for finding out who has what in a PBEM.

digger760

I will look at that as soon as I can.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
This program is based on mydisease's Tech Research Formula he posted...

Lol, I hope hats a user...:p

Sorry guys, I havn't had time to take a look at the problems just yet. (Need to install the proper programs too...).

Anyways, if you want any improvement for the program, just post and I'll see what I can do.

Gonna update it for the latest PTW patches, and make a Conquest version as well.

Will try and make this work with mods aswell in the future.

I've been working on an update on the Tech Calc. I had to rewrite the SourceCode from the ground up, because I lost the old code.

I know I fixed some bugs that were in 1.5, like the Gunpowder showing the wrong cost.

I've also added plenty of new features! Like:

Ability to load textfiles with the Tech Names and costs (which makes it possible to change the use of the program, to use it with a mod, Scenario, Conquest, or another version of the game).
A simple Combat Calculator.
A simple *regular* calculator, that can add, subtract, multiply and divide, with numbers with up to 2 decimals.
An area where you can keep short notes.
It will be released sometime next week (or this week). Anyways, it will be out sometime week 51.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/techCalc2.jpg


Btw, anyone know how to implement one of these?:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/example.gif

This version sounds great! Good job, Grey fox!

:goodjob:

One suggestion: since you added a combat calculator, why not make it complete with the barbarians bonus and the land defense bonus?

I usually use the tech calculator and the combat calculator. Two in one would be awesome.

Originally posted by LaRo
One suggestion: since you added a combat calculator, why not make it complete with the barbarians bonus and the land defense bonus? I've been thinking you could add that yourself. It's just to write 2.7 if it's a fortified spearman spearman on a plains for example.

Do I *really* need to add those buttons?

Jaaaaaa ;)

Remember the food on the stove!

:lol: At that note.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Btw, anyone know how to implement one of these?:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/example.gif IIRC it has a 'value' property that will always return the value, and the control itself will do the 'plus' and 'minus' functions.

Or do you mean what dll is the control part of?

I should admit that I have used it in VB, C Sharp and VB.NET, but not C++ (as you appear to be using).

Originally posted by anarres
Or do you mean what dll is the control part of?Yeah, I wanna know how I can add one of those to the dialog.

I might be able to Release the program today.

IF it wasn't for a stupid problem... When I try to divide 9/10 (both floats). Like this variable = number/10, I get the result; 0.899999991672 or something like that. When it should be 0.9.

And I'm SO frustrated and SO angry right now because of that... ARR!!! :mad: :cry:

Originally posted by Grey Fox
IF it wasn't for a stupid problem... When I try to divide 9/10 (both floats). Like this variable = number/10, I get the result; 0.899999991672 or something like that. When it should be 0.9.

This is pretty standard behaviour for a float. A float only has about 6 significant digits of decimal accuracy (Note that if you output 0.899999991672 to 6 signifcant figures you DO get 0.9). If that's not good enough you could always use a double or a long double!

Originally posted by Dianthus

This is pretty standard behaviour for a float. A float only has about 6 significant digits of decimal accuracy (Note that if you output 0.899999991672 to 6 signifcant figures you DO get 0.9). If that's not good enough you could always use a double or a long double! The strange thing is that I DON'T get this problem in a DOS version of this calculation. There I get 0.9 plain and Simple.

And how should a double or a long double help me? I don't want MORE decimals...

How can I fix this? 6 significant figures :confused:

Definitly use doubles in a small prog like this! The overhead is non-existent on this scale and the precision isn't going to need thinking about again.

Regarding the http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/example.gif control GreyFox - IIRC it is in COMCTL32.ocx.

YEY! :D :goodjob:

Changing to double fixed all my troubles!


It's a wonder I didn't destroy any furniture or damage myself during my frustration...

Originally posted by Grey Fox
And how should a double or a long double help me? I don't want MORE decimals...

If you have more precision (I.e. by using double or long double) then there will be less rounding in performing calculations and it will be possible to store more binary places, so making it possible to store more decimal places. Note that even a number like 0.1 takes quite a lot of binary places as decimal fractions don't convert well to binary fractions.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
How can I fix this? 6 significant figures :confused:
I just did a quick google for "significant figures" and came up with this site (http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/SigFigs/SigFigRules.html).

EDIT: Oh, and I'm glad to see you've fixed it now :goodjob:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/TechCalc2Preview.gif

Here are some of the new features:

Ability to load textfiles with the Tech Names and costs (which makes it possible to change the use of the program, to use it with a mod, Scenario, Conquest, or another version of the game).
A Combat Calculator, with everything needed to be useful. :)
A simple *regular* calculator, that can add, subtract, multiply and divide.
An area where you can keep short notes.
You can now see how much gold that will be lost. (Thanks vbraun for the suggestion!)
You can now enter how many turns you've researched.


Happy Civing! :D

And report all bugs, problems, suggestions and praise here in this thread ;)

Did a small update after 3 downloads.
Updated to version 2.01 after 14 downloads.
Updated version 2.01 once again after 3 downloads.

Thank you for your continued efforts on this project. :)

Thank you so much Grey Fox! This is great. :)

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Here are some of the new features:
Ability to load textfiles with the Tech Names and costs (which makes it possible to change the use of the program, to use it with a mod, Scenario, Conquest, or another version of the game).


....

And report all bugs, problems, suggestions and praise here in this thread ;)

The use of a textfile is a good idea, but I've got a better one :). How about reading a .sav/.bix/.bic/.biq file to extract the tech costs, map modifiers, difficulty modifiers? You could also extract the Nr. of Civs with tech, Nr. of Civs left, Beakers per Turn, Gold invested from the .sav file!

Originally posted by Dianthus

The use of a textfile is a good idea, but I've got a better one :). How about reading a .sav/.bix/.bic/.biq file to extract the tech costs, map modifiers, difficulty modifiers? You could also extract the Nr. of Civs with tech, Nr. of Civs left, Beakers per Turn, Gold invested from the .sav file! I already got that idea ;)

The problem is.
...
I can't do it :p

I got the code to unpack the saves somewhere... although, I have no idea how to read a hexfile, and then comes the problem of how the files are structured...

Maybe in a future version.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
The problem is.
...
I can't do it :p

Well, I've got some C++ code for reading those files which I currently use in my CIVReplay stuff. I'll let you have it for a very low cost (nothing is pretty low, right :)) if you're interested.

Originally posted by Dianthus

Well, I've got some C++ code for reading those files which I currently use in my CIVReplay stuff. I'll let you have it for a very low cost (nothing is pretty low, right :)) if you're interested. Sure, I'll PM you my email adress :)

GF i found many a bugs in 2.0. IF you would like me to post a list ill do that. I even have screenies to prove one of them.

Do so, that's what you should do :)


P.s. I won't be embarresed ;)

Things that need imptovment/Bugs
-33hp is the maximum possible!
-River lowers chances of winning in some cases
-Ability to save notes
-Ability to choice between Conquest/Vannila style techs (50/40max turns)
-Various errors in the Comabt Calculator
-It gets annyoning having to deal with the "Please enter an Integer" message!
-An about button that gives information about the creator and other stuff... (just noticed there is an about thing but it still says "TechCalc 1.0" :lol: )
-The cursor should change when mouse is over the Civ3/PTW/C3C Icon so i know its a button.
-When comparing it to a game it always was 1 turn less then what it actually was.

Originally posted by vbraun
Things that need imptovment/Bugs
-33hp is the maximum possible!
-River lowers chances of winning in some cases
-Ability to save notes
-Ability to choice between Conquest/Vannila style techs (50/40max turns)
-Various errors in the Comabt Calculator
-It gets annyoning having to deal with the "Please enter an Integer" message!
-An about button that gives information about the creator and other stuff... (just noticed there is an about thing but it still says "TechCalc 1.0" :lol: )
-The cursor should change when mouse is over the Civ3/PTW/C3C Icon so i know its a button.
-When comparing it to a game it always was 1 turn less then what it actually was.

- Well, the maximum HP your gonna get in the game is 26 with the standard rules. (4 Ancient Cavalry's or 4 War Elephants).
- Rivers lower the chance for the Attacker or Defender? Because they should lower for Attacker.
- The ability to choose between Vannilla/conquest style will be added in a preference file. (To include a textfile with the preference to be loaded by clicking on those buttons already there.)
- I'm aware of those errors, will see what I can do...
- Oops, yeah I had to reverse to a backuped version of the program, and forgot to change that...
- Yeah, I know...
- That's some rounding error. Happens mostly on cheaper techs... like the early ones. Don't happen as much on the later techs. I'll see what I can do. But I could use mydiseases help...

Originally posted by anarres
Regarding the http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/example.gif control GreyFox - IIRC it is in COMCTL32.ocx. Strange that's a List-Tree-View for me... EDIT: and some other things had the same name though...

Grey Fox,

I see the rounding error is still apparent in TechCalc2 (the one i described earlier in this thread).

Let me cite another example

Level = Regent
Map = Small
Printing Press Basic Cost = 720 gold
Beakers per turn = 81
Turns left = 8
Number civs = 6
Number of civs with tech = 0

however with the use of you calculator 720/81 = 8.9

and the F6 screen is showing 9 turns to research Printing Press

EDIT: what data type are you using to represent turns left, if it were an int, then any decimal place would be dropped. Maybe you could use modulus to find the remainder, if the remainder is greater half the beakers per turn then increment the turns left value

The rounding error will be gone in the next version. :)

The Combat Calculator will also be more accurate.

TechCalc has now been updated to version 2.01

Fixes and additions in this version:

Fixed the rounding error on Turns Left.
The combat calcular is now more accurate and a unit will never have a negative chance.
Added a button to add Beakers Per Turn to the Gold Invested edit-box. This button also increases Turn-Researched by 1.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/techcalc201.jpg

TechCalc (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=1440956) 2.01

NICE! You still can't save your notes. It should save as a .txt. The mouse should be a hand pointer over the icons, as I didn't know that they were buttons (I actually didn't know they were buttons until vbraun said it should be a pointer to show that they are). Aside from that, it's awesome! :goodjob:

Looking good Grey Fox! :goodjob:

One small point - the TechCalc is 'always on top' and has to be minimised to get it off screen. Can we have this as a setable option?

Originally posted by anarres
Looking good Grey Fox! :goodjob:

One small point - the TechCalc is 'always on top' and has to be minimised to get it off screen. Can we have this as a setable option? Hmm, I'm not sure how to do that, but I'll try.

How do I download this Grey Fox? I downloaded it and when I double click it it opens in Netscape. The window in Netscape makes me download another copy of it, and this happens again and again...

Where can I get the actual program? The thing you posted seems to be a link to a link to a link, etc.

EDIT: When I download it it is a .zip.php file. Is the PHP supposed to be there? Because I think that is what is making it open in Netscape and download another...

cgannon: rename the file as a .zip (remove the .php). Then it *should* open correctly.

It worked, thanks padma. I wonder what would make it do that. :confused:

One more thing. Not that it is a problem for me but each time you exit the calc an illegal program shows up and it is annoying.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Techcalc.jpg

I don't get that error.

Hi Grey Fox. I like this utility a lot. However, I am trying to use it in PTW and it seems to give me a minimum research of 50 turns. I have checked it loading the "Civ3.txt" and "ptw.txt" files that were included.

Tech Selected: Bronze Working
Map Size: Standard
Difficulty: Deity
No. of Civ's with Tech: 0
Nr. of Civ's left: 5
Beakers per turn: 1
Gold invested: 0
Turns researched: 0

Results:
Tech cost: 106 gold
Gold lost: 0 gold
Turns Left: 50

FYI, I do have Civ3, PTW, and C3C installed on this computer. The reason I bring this up is because I want to make sure that it still works correctly with the old versions for games I am currently playing.

Thanks!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/techcalc201-ptw.JPG

edit: add image

Hello.

Was just wondering if the tech cost information in this tool is accurate with C3C 1.22 patch ?

Sorry about the stupid question, i'm new here and dont know if tech cost has changed anywhere from unpatched C3C :blush:

Hi,

Great tool, nice to have the CC included.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but shouldn't the number of turs allready spent on the tech be substracted from the turns needed.

Look at the image, as you can see I can change the number spent to whatever I want, the turn needed stays the same.

M.

I think I solved this "mystery", just shows again I should think first before opening my mouth.

The + increases the turns spent by 1 and multiplies this to find the gold allready invested. However if there's allready a number in the turns researched TechCalc takes this number and add 1 to it. I think a the turns researched could be better derived from [Gold Invested]/[Beakers per turn], instead of just adding 1 when the "+" button is clicked. Also greying out the turn researched field would prevent confusion.

Also a "-" button would be nice.

@Grey Fox: Great Utility! :goodjob: :goodjob:

Is there a way to know the "survival" percentage of an attacking unit?

For example, a Horseman could attack a Spearman, lose the battle, BUT survive to "fight another day"! ;)

Strange error: can't load file c3c.txt "text\c3c.txt contains an invalid path"

Is there a particular directory this must be in?

PF

Strange error: can't load file c3c.txt "text\c3c.txt contains an invalid path"

Is there a particular directory this must be in?

PF

IIRC, there is a text file that is in the zip with the .exe. Both have to be unzipped to the same folder so that the tech calc knows where to find the text file. ;)

Solved it but it is the other way around. The txt files have to be in a subfolder named "text" of the directory you installed techcalc.

PF

Illegal operation when close is a W98se error. Don't think worth fixing, just FYI.

PF

C3Cv1.22, Tiny, Chieftain, Civs with Tech=0, Civs Left=4
Researching Atomic Theory at 100% (Producing 560 Non-corrupt Beakers/turn)

TechCalc 2.01 says Cost is 1600 Beakers
My Game says its gonna take 6 turns, which would put the cost between 2801 & 3360!?

What am I missing here? :blush:

P.s. Is there a List somewhere else, showing the Cost to research Techs?

C3Cv1.22, Tiny, Chieftain, Civs with Tech=0, Civs Left=4
Researching Atomic Theory at 100% (Producing 560 Non-corrupt Beakers/turn)

TechCalc 2.01 says Cost is 1600 Beakers
My Game says its gonna take 6 turns, which would put the cost between 3360 & 3528!?

What am I missing here? :blush:

P.s. Is there a List somewhere else, showing the Cost to research Techs?
I just worked it out by hand based on the information you gave and I make it 1600gpt as well. Are you sure you're right about Tiny/Chieftain?

Yeah, it's Chieftain all right.

The Domination Limit is 610. (From CRpMapStat & MapFinder filename.)

I'm pretty sure the Map is Tiny (60% Water).....Would that make any difference? It's as though it's calculating for a Large Map! (My revised Beaker Count Range is 2801-3360.)

Yeah, it's Chieftain all right.

The Domination Limit is 610. (From CRpMapStat & MapFinder filename.)

I'm pretty sure the Map is Tiny (60% Water).....Would that make any difference? It's as though it's calculating for a Large Map! (My revised Beaker Count Range is 2801-3360.)
Is this a standard game, or created as a scenario? It's possible to accidentally get the tech cost of a different map size when creating a game via the editor. If you post a .sav I'll take a look and see what the mapsize modifier and the difficulty modifiers are.

Thanks Dianthus, I've attached:

Current F1 Screen

Start-game file
Current-game-position file

It was generated by MapFinder......Standard game.....actually an HOF attempt! :)

OK, looks like I made a mistake by hand, and I'm guessing it's the same one that GreyFox made in TechCalc. I made it 1600gpt when I was using CF=20 (as per mydisease's formula (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29485)). CF is actually capped to 10 though, so it should really be 3200gpt. Just do a mental x2 for Chieftain and x1.2 for Warlord, other difficulties should be OK.

3200gpt....that would make more sense.

Thanks for taking the time to figure it out Dianthus. :goodjob: :goodjob:

P.s. I've noted mydisease's thread address, for future reference! ;)

I am wondering what the Tech cost means and how can I use them. I mainly am asking this for us in PBEM's. Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer that Question.

It tells you how many beakers you need to research to complete a tech.

So for trade purposes am I right in my thinking with this example? Lets say you have Ceramonial Burial and you trade for the Wheel. You would then need to give two extra GPT for that tech. I hope I am right in my thinking.

Well it depends on the game settings. The formula uses cost factor, which is level dependant and map size and some lessor things such as known by x civs.

So if at std map on emperor the Wheel was 60 beakers and CB was 30, you should get the difference in gold.

Very impressive calculator, but could you tell me how I find out what the base tech cost for a particular tech is? It's not in the manual and I can't find it online. I'm sure it must be somewhere.I'd really appreciate it.

Very impressive calculator, but could you tell me how I find out what the base tech cost for a particular tech is? It's not in the manual and I can't find it online. I'm sure it must be somewhere.I'd really appreciate it.
Base cost? It depends on what do you mean by base cost, but its probably the one from in the editor (under 'civilization advances').