Looking for 5 players to play as Korea (commercial and scientific)

All STD victory conditions enabled:

Standard Map

7 Random AI

Large Continents, Temperate, Normal conditions, 4 billion years

Here is the Start:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1start.JPG

Roster:

Hotrod0823
Rowain (after confirmation)
Unique Unit
Mystery13
Meldor
Borealis

Rounds will be 20 turns each then drop back to 10 turns.

New Variant: Ground troops may not attack without a bombardment attack first. This will include catapults, the Hwach'a , artillery and bombers.

Standard rules regarding 20 turns of peace, ROP rape, etc.

24 hours to post got it 48 hr to complete the turns.


Hotrod

Hot Rod: Can I jump in on this?
I've only been posting here (after a long time lurking) for a little while, but I have been more active over at Aployton (where I post as Robber Baron).
I am an experienced CivIII-er, and typically play Monarchy/Emporer level. But my micromanagement skills need refinement. (I need to get "Fanatical.")
By the way, for a sense of my strategic take on the Koreans, check out: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70497.

Sure this UU, your up 3rd okay??

I will check out your page at poly. I choose koreans for a change. I haven't seen any SG played with them , and I haven't played solo with them either. Your take on them should be very helpful.;).

Hotrod

Thanks! :cool:

Well hi there UU/RobberBaron!

I just saw your excellent post on Koreans at Apolyton, and have gotten into an interesting discussion on early deity strategies (a tangent to your article I'm afraid)

This game should be a good one. It's tempting for me actually, but I've been really wanting to play an aggressive Diety game with the Koreans, rather than Monarchy, and probably small rather than large.

I would encourage other lurkers to hop in!! There are some very solid players in this game, and I think it's going to be one where hotrod finds his desired 'mastery of Monarch' :)

I'll keep an eye on it anway... Good luck!
Charis

Thanks for the Encoragement. Played Monarch with Lee and in LK34 and it was over before it began. Want to see what a less aggressive civ can do in PTW. I am not sure, based on UU article, if this game will be a builder/space race type of game. We'll have to find out how the peaceful Koreans play out.

Hotrod

Just for the record, I have no problem playing a builder game. I figure with rigorous mm, any civ can launch a spaceship in almost any setting.

We'll have to see how it plays out!

Will start after we fill up the last slots

Hotrod

Hey Hotrod, count me in on this one.

I'm wondering if it's possible in your eyes, to add a bit of a variant to this one. There were a few really early games that focused on bombardment and taking cities with the UU. With the special cannon as our UU, what do you think about taking all cities with the help of that cannon? Just a thought/hope...I'll play either way.

If you need another player I will join.

Mystery and meldor you are both in. Sure any suggestions on variants is cool with me.

Once Rowain confirms I will play the first 20 and post. Between now and then add a variant flare to utilize the UU.

Hotrod

I just checked my PM's and Borealis would like to join as a sixth. If there are no objections I will be adding her as the last player.

Also, per Mystery's request cities may only be attacked by ground troups if a bombardment unit attacks first. That includes catapults the Hwach'a, artillery and bombers.

Any other request should be brought up now. I will start the game tomorrow night.

Hotrod

I have no problem with 6, and the bombardment rule sounds great...I guess we'll have to run for math...

I like the idea of a bombardment-oriented varient. It will, however, effectively make it impossible to take cities surrounded by rough terrain.

At leat until we get bombers :D!

It will be interesting for sure

Hotrod

Thanks for the spot :)

I'm in


Rowain

I'm looking forward to the Hot1 series! :)

Good luck!

-Griselda

Unique unit, there is nothing stopping you from building a road in enemy territory. Since you will have defensive units on the mountain, you may as well bring along some, er, siege engineers :)

:lol: - Looks like we are ready. I will play and post tonight

Hotrod

Jaxom, siege engineers, eh? Never tried that. Cool, a new tactic!
We could call them "Wang Sappers" -- sounds kind of kinky. ;)

Using sappers is a very strong technique, especially once rails come on line. You can use cav to capture a city, rail to and under your units, move defneders in and hurt units back to the nearest barracks. Combined with combet settlers it call roll an opposing civ in a few turns.

4000 BC (0): After realizing I screwed up and had accelerated production on (Hear Hommer voice in the the back ground) I restart the game with normal production and all the same settings. This is a new starting point. I move settler to the hills and will found Seoul next turn.

3950 BC (1): Found Seoul on the hill, it is on a river and on the coast. Start with a warrior. Begin researching Pottery at 90%.

3900 BC (2):

3850 BC (3):

3800 BC (4):

3750 BC (5):

3700 BC (6): Warrior completes start a barracks as a place holder for granary.

3650 BC (7): Warrior is heading NW away from the coastline.

3600 BC (8):

3550 BC (9):

3500 BC (10):

3450 BC (11): Culture expands.

3400 BC (12):

3350 BC (13):

3300 BC (14): Contact Mongols to the West. They have Pottery and Warrior code but won't offer any reasonable trades. Pottery is due next turn.

3250 BC (15): Learn Pottery start on Masonry. Change to Seoul to Granary.

3200 BC (16): More warrior movement.

3150 BC (17):

3100 BC (18):

3050 BC (19): See the outlines of a new Mongol city to the West.

3000 BC (20): Mongol warrior is heading toward Seoul, warrior heading back to the unattended capital. Due to grow to 3 in 3 turns, the warrior can serve as MP duty. Granary will finish in 2 turns.

Not much happened. Decided to research Masonry as a counter to the Mongols research.

Here is the Save:


http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_3000_BC.zip

Rowain: (up)
UU: - ON DECK
Mystery13
Meldor
Borealis
Hotrod

Originally posted by Charis in the RBD5 thread
- No city may be attacked on any round until artillery support has fired on the
town (catapult, cannon, artillery, radar artillery, cruise missile or any bombardment)
- The only exception is that Paratroopers do not require artillery support.
- Paratroopers are suggested to be made and used, and should pillage key supply
lines and special resources as a key part of their mission.
- Cities need artillery garrisons. For a captured city, one artillery unit must
remain as garrison. For a built city, an artillery unit should be produced or
imported (AFTER that city builds/gets an infantry defender)
- For cannon, artillery, radar art, a Musketman is required in the same square
to operate the equipment. (This goes for city garrison as well)
- Note that a Marine attacking a city after naval bombardment is another
option opened up nicely.

RBD5 - January 2002 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14518)

Now that was the early days :lol:. I haven't read the thread and don't intent to yet but any suggestions are welcome ;).

Any comments on Charis rules??

Hotrod

So, in all non-amphibious attacks, naval bombardment would not meet our conditions?

And, before catapults, we are not allowed to attack cities?

The world shall tremble before the mysterious dragon-fire of our Hwach'a! :evil:
(Or not.) :love:

The early days?!?! Now I feel old! :lol:
I had a real blast with that game - I had never used bombardment before that and learned its fearsome power!

If I'm allowed to comment on those rules...

- I wanted to see more paratrooper and marine action, but the game was in its last turns before they had an impact. Still... paratroopers landing in mountains behind enemy lines worked better than expected.
- We quickly dropped the city garrison rule. It got changed early-mid game to "must maintain one cat/cannon/artillery unit in the field for every town you have, or build more to reach this number immediately". We just didn't have the economy to BOTH have units sitting around unused at home and enough to romp around the map on offense
- The Musketeer requirement to fire the guns was a roleplaying element that let us have fun with the near useless French UU. Our stacks of doom were so powerful that Meers (as we called them) could take about any city

Your game's simpler rule of "must bombard a city somehow before attacking with troops" will be sufficient, I think.

If you guys have not seen this link, it's a MUST for fans of the Hwatch'a -- a short video clip of them in action! Quite a sight to see, I must say. Those puppies SHOULD get lethal bombardment :P The seungja looks cool too

Discussed at...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58092
Actual video link... :rocket:
http://chunghondang.com/movie/singijeon.mpg

Picture of Hwatch'a : http://apolyton.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1187387

Charis

Any bombardment was acceptable, as I recall. We did use catapults in our first war, which didn't occur until around the beginning of the middle ages. Also, the rules did change a bit over the course of the game, so I would suggest reading the whole thread. For instance, we found that having artillery required as garrison was pretty much silly -- we wound up tying up a whole bunch of gpt on units that basically couldn't be used, thus curtailing our ability to build an offensive force. We ultimately decided to change the rule to be "you must own at least as many artillery pieces as you have cities" but they didn't have to be garrisoned one per city. We did, however, keep the requirement that at least 1 Musketeer was needed in a stack to operate any ground-based artillery more advanced than catapults, as well as the requirement to bombard cities before attacking. I think we also kept a Musketeer around as ground crew for bombarding fighters and bombers.

I intended to have any bombardment unit work, I forgot things like ironclads, destroyers, battleships, missles or nukes and whatever else has a ranged attack. Personnally I think including them would be fine. It will help having "non-wheeled" units as part of the acceptable bombing teams.

Any bombing attack from any bombardment unit must occur before ground attacks.

Hotrod

@ UU: The specifics of the RBD5 game are not entirely applicable I just found that that game was played similiarly almost a year ago. I was unaware of that game when Mystery made the suggestion for a variant to stress the use of the Hwach'a. The additional requirements set forth by Charis in their game were specific to the French and that particular set of rules. I didn't intend that rule set to be the new set here.

Nice work Hotrod! That is exactly the game I was referring to, I just hadn't spent the time to go back and find it. That game was one of the many at the time that caused me to jump into the SG's.

I also agree with your all-encompassing rule as we definitely do not have the French variant at work here. Bombardment first, then capture. I really want to see the Korean artillery in action!

After the great hall had been framed and roofed, the tribe gathered at the ocean's edge. A feast had been prepared, to celebrate the founding of the village and offer sacrifices to the gods in thanks. Behind them, against the backdrop of the dark forests, the lodges they had built looked small and scattered.
Their young leader, Wang Kon, rose to speak.
Suddenly, a bright streak appeared in the night sky -- like a piece of fire, shooting across the firmament. The people murmered worriedly. Even Wang Kon seemed shaken, looking over to the circle of tribal eldars. One of them, a wizened old woman, rose.
"Do not be afraid," she said soothingly. "This is a great omen, from the dragons who rule the heavens. Your people will be mighty, Wang Kon. They shall rule the earth by raining fire and death on their enemies."


Hotrod:
I'm taking the liberty of attaching a partial screenshot, from your save:

Thanks Unique Unit. Hope the :smoke: hasn't started yet! :lol:

Hotrod

We might want to think about building an early wonder-city soon. Normally I avoid basing ancient era strategy on wonders. But for the Koreans, landing certain wonders (either by building them or capturing them) is necessary for triggering a Golden Age. Either Colossus (commercial) or the Great Library (scientific) or the Great Lighthouse (commercial) might be worthwhile (though perhaps only one of these, unless we want a despotic GA).
Just a thought. I'm open to different approaches.

We may learn the power of the internet!!! ;) I was thinking that colossus was an option when I moved to hill on the coast. I wouldn't stress that right off though, we may not have that much room to expand and the added requirements of using catapults will deter or at least slow any type of early war. I think that expansion is the key for now, hence the early granary. Lets see how it plays out.

Hotrod

20 turns till 2150BC

3000BC (0): Nothing to change :)

2950BC : Granary finished Settler orderedWarrior scouts north of Seoul and discovers Gems ; Lux to 10% to prevent riots.

2670BC (7): Meet India Ghandi has Warrior Code and Ceremonial we have nothing.

2630BC (8): Settler finished order Warrior; Lux to 0%;

2590BC (9): We get a skilled Warrior from a GH and see a lot of Dyes. Sent Warrior back to Seoul and switch Seoul to Settler.

2470BC (12): the Indian Warrior sleeps on the spot I want to Settle :mad:

2390BC (14): P'yongyang founded Warrior ordered; Science to 70% earns us 2 gpt :) Lux to 10%;

IT: Masonry learned start Mathe on minScience; Settler finished in Seoul next one ordered;

2350 (15): Masonry + Alphabet to Temujin for Wheel + CB + 6 gold; Masonry to Ghandi for Warrior Code and 1 gold; I decide to sent the Settler to the Dyes. Although this is far away if we get a monopol on them we will have big trading possibilities;

2270BC (17) A GH is deserted but next to it is a Barb camp;

2230BC (18): our Warrior misses some Artillery and therefore looses vs the Barb :(

2150 BC (20): End of my turns with an overview:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/HOT1-2150BC.jpg

and The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_2150_BC.zip)

Please settle our third city inmidst the Dyes the nextsettler can then fill the gap and our first ring.

Good Luck Unique :)

Rowain

Got it.

And just to weed out my own weed: on second thought, I think Great Lighthouse is expansionist, not commercial.

Hotrod
Rowain
Unique Unit <---- Up
Mystery13 (On Deck)
Meldor
Borealis

UU, the Great Lighthouse can trigger for both expansionist and commercial civs, according to the civilopedia. The following wonders can combine in various ways to get us a GA by the end of the Middle Ages:

Great Lighthouse and Great Library
Colossus and GL
Magellan's Voyage and GL
Magellan's Voyage and Newton's University
Smith's Trading Company and GL/NU

I rarely, if ever, get the Colossus on Monarch difficulty, as one of the industrious civs, usually Persia if they're around, builds it first. The GL is a chance if we get Literature first and could actually use it, as the PTW AI still neglects to research the tech at this level. (I assume/hope Emperor/Deity AI is smarter about this). Literature is also a good choice even if we go warmongering, as libraries are cheap, give culture, and boost our tech rate. Depending on how bloodthirsty we are, maybe we can pick it up as soon as we have the tech for a good attacking unit to accompany our catapults. :)

Just wondering... according to the F11 screen, who's our competition? Gandhi and Ghenghis have been mentioned, but there should be at least two more visible there.

Preturn: diplomatic rounds: India has nothing to offer, and no gold. Mongols have nothing either. Relations are polite.
I make one change, waking the warrior fortified in Seoul. We don’t need him for mp, and there’s a lot of scouting to be done.
Of course, barbs may come calling. Weed before I even run my first turn? We’ll see. Warrior-scout is sent south, to map out the bottom of our peninsula.

Warrior-scout finds more bonus grasslands to the south. We can definitely squeeze a city in here, creating later overlap with Seoul, but also drawing in three bonus grasslands. It’s close by, lush and productive land.
Worker finishes mine, starts roading tile. Settler heads north, to the dyes.

Mongol scout forces north-bound settler to divert diagonally.

2030 BC: Seoul trains settler, set to warrior (more scouting, while the city replenishes sufficiently for another settler).
New settler sent south, towards the tip of our peninsula.

2070 BC: P'yongyang trains warrior, and grows to 2 pop. I start training a worker (and shift tiles to 1 grass, 1 forest). Warrior heads northeast, toward dyes and new city site.

1990 BC: Diplo check divulges that Mongols have discovered iron working. We can’t afford it – and the Indians have nothing they could trade for it anyway.

1950 BC: Northern settler founds Wonsan, among the dyes, on a jungle/dye tile. It will take awhile to grow, but at least has a forest/dye tile to work until more fertile land can be hacked out.
Doh! Barbs appear as the fog around Wonsan lifts. We’re going to get a visit. And I have no warriors at hand, and nothing I can spend our money on. :mad:

1910 BC: Wonsan is ransacked; we lose 23 gold.

1870 BC: Pusan founded, on the southern tip of the peninsula. Starts training a warrior. (What I really want down here at this point is a worker, but the city wouldn’t grow in time.)

1880 BC: P'yong worker emerges, set to roading plains tile to connect with our n/s artery. (I should have laid this road along the river, to be improving bonus river tiles. Now I see the weed :smoke: .)

1790 BC: Seoul trains warrior, starts on settler. Iron Working is still expensive; Indians are still poor (and without IW); no new contacts yet.

1725 BC: Whoops, I think I played an extra turn (assuming we were supposed to shift to 10 turn rounds, at this point). Sorry. :(


Suggestions: I settled our third city among the dyes, as advised. My feeling is that we should plant our next city along the floodplains at the foot of the gem mountains, to the northwest of P’yongyang.

We need to explore and (hopefully) make contacts beyond the Indians and Mongols. Push a warrior or two through the cultural-free corridors, before they close off.

I left a warrior on the road between Seoul and P’yong, where he would be within striking distance of either city in case barbs spring up down here. We might want to send him off scouting, and risk the barbs?

If iron working does come down from 2d civ price, it might be a good early buy. We have a fair amount of mountains nearby (another reason to get a city up on the floodplains).

Here's the game:

Here's our little corner of the world:

Borealis: To tell the truth, I never check the F11 screen in the early going of a game. I know it's there, and I guess checking up is not considered an exploit. But to me, it always felt kind of, well, exploit-ative.
(I don't mind if you check and tell us all, though.)
Nice to have the relevent wonder list here -- thanks!

Wow, this is going fast! I've got it and will have it back tomorrow.

FYI:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-217.jpg


Please look at the red arrows.
You do *NOT* need to build wonders to trip a GA.

So, would a successful bombardment trigger the GA? Anybody tried it?

That anwser I don't know.
I have played Korea yet.

Edit : The editor has GA but not lethal bombing. The civ write up says it has leathal bombing :confused: Not sure what about the Hwach'a will give the GA? Guess we will find out :D.

Hotrod

Hotrod
Rowain
Unique Unit
Mystery <---- UP
Meldor (On Deck)
Borealis

The civ write-up, and suggestions here are WRONG

The Hwatcha will NEVER set off a GA, in a game w/o a mod.

The flag for can set GA means that if it kills an enemy unit it will setoff the GA. But the Hwatcha does **not** have lethal bombardment. If Lee's screenshot scrolled down that list just slightly it would show there is a flag for lethal bombard (one vs land and one vs sea actually), and it's NOT set for Hwatch'a.

To be definitive, I pushed my test Korea game wrecklessly to Metallurgy.

Hwatach'a destroyed improvements, destroyed buildings, hurt an enemy, but did *NOT* set off a Golden Age.

I hope that's clear now :p

Charis

Duplicate post

Well I now officially consider the Hwatcha this worst UU of the game.

Korea at higher levels will be almost impossible to trip a golden age. I think the ultimate deity challenge will be play this weak civ.

Preturn, not much to do at this point. I leave everything
as is.

IT Pusan builds a warrior, I switch to worker. Oh man, two civs
close by...we'd better hurry up and get math (23 turns).

(1)1700BC Fortified a warrior. Doing some exploring.

(2)1675BC Fortified another warrior...only Seoul uncovered.

IT Seoul builds a settler, I must use him as a buffer between
us and the Mongols...we are already almost out of room!

(3)1650BC not much

(4)1625BC Warrior in Wonsan sent to clean up barb activity.

(5)1600BC not much

(6)1575BC not much

IT Warrior built in Seoul covers last city. All cities set
to Temple, but these can obviously be changed to settlers
if possible.

(7)1550BC Namp'o formed.

(8)1525BC Barb camp fragged. I get Writing from India for
150 gold.

IT Our first palace expansion...we get a lawn.

(9)1550BC not much...I'll stop here to even out the turns.
Seoul could be rearranged for a settler in 4 if the next
leader so desires.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1_1500_bc.zip

Hotrod
Rowain
Unique Unit
Mystery
Meldor <-----
Borealis (On Deck)

1500 BC (Pre-turn)
We can get a settler in 4, but only by wasting shields. Even at max it still takes 15 turns for Math. Switch Seoul to a spear, we can then do a settler. The spear will do as much for happiness as the temple right now and give more defense. We have no bonus food anywhere that it will do us any good. We need to switch to Monarchy as soon as we can (assuming we will be aggressive). Change Wonsan to worker. We need all the improvements we can build.
(I) Spearman builds, palace expands.

1475 BC (1)
Movement.
(I) Warrior is attacked by barbs in jungle, but is unharmed.

1450 BC (2)
Exploring. Warrior finds barb camp in jungle.
(I) Warrior attacked by a second barb, must heal before hitting barb camp.

1425 BC (3)
Take out barb camp, second explorer finds a goodie hut.
(I) Namp'o finishes Warrior and starts worker. Wonsan finishes worker begins spear.

1400 BC (4)
Nada.

1375 BC (5)
Movement.
(I) Seoul completes the settler and starts a barracks.

1350 BC (6) Settler and spear start trip to river area by hills. Goodie Hut only give 50g. See a green border. I can finally get Iron working fro striaght cash but will wait for contact with third civ before paying up.
(I) gems are now on-line.

1325 BC (7)
New contact is the Japanese. Get Mysticism from Japan for 70g. Mysticism and 39g to Gandi for Iron Working. Horseback riding from Korea for 79g and 1gpt. Sell it to Gandi for 89g. We are now all up to date on techs. The only iron can reach is in a mountain north of the jungle. We need to get a settler up there or take the city that is placed there. There is a second deposit between the other three civs.
(I) Horses are now hooked up.

1300-1275 BC (8-9)
Movement.
(I) Namp'o completes its worker and starts a barracks.

1250 BC (10)
Movement.

Hot1 1250 BC Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1_1250_bc.ZIP)

[EDIT] Fixed errant ')' that got in link.....

Hotrod (on Deck)
Rowain
UU
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis < ---- Up Now

Link above is bad extra ) in the link:

Borealis try this one. http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1_1250_bc.ZIP

Have the game- I'll play tonight or tomorrow morning. :)

1250 BC (0) Inherited turn.
I check diplomacy and note that the Mongols and the Japanese now have communications with China. The price, at 87 gold, is too high right now, and in PTW, the AI will sell communications to each other- as soon as Mao gets Writing + enough cash, Japan or the Mongols will sell him contact with us. The F11 screen reveals that France and Persia are also out in the world somewhere, and for capital cities Kyoto>Delhi>Karakorum.

India and Mongolia both get their UUs in place of knights, and it looks like we're going to have to fight one of them for space soon. The Keshik archer needs iron, and costs 60 shields. The war elephant needs no resources, and costs 70 shields. Also, Gandhi is a greater cultural threat- unless Genghis is overtly aggressive and brings us to the war first, plan on taking out Gandhi first as the Mongols don't have iron yet. The war probably won't be in my turn, but I'm going to build us up in expectation for a war with Gandhi or Genghis. Before we go to war, we should consider building embassies, to possibly drag the other one in (only after making sure we can claim the territory first).

The iron up in the jungle has an Indian cultural border next to it- I'll send the next settler pair up there, but with cheap temples we'll probably have to take that city out, as the amount of jungle makes travel time to it nonnegligible.



1225 BC (1)
Send settler + spear pair to spot on river between Gandhi and Genghis. It will start a temple immediately when it arrives. Swap temples in P'yongyang and Pusan to barracks. We can afford the extra maintenance, and vet troops + lower cost mean that we get to start more troops/settler pairs that much earlier. If we desperately need temples later, we can build them, but right now we shouldn't build them unless we're planning against a possible flip.

1200 BC (2)
Movement.

Interturn: Our warrior scout to the south of Japan is attacked and killed by a barb while on a hill- bad luck with the RNG. :(

1175 BC (3)
Movement.

1150 BC (4)
Seoul and Pusan build barracks; start spears.

1125 BC (5)
Math research complete! I start 40 turn research on Literature- cheap libraries and possibly the GL depending on AI progress (probably not, but it's possible... I've done it before with the Koreans on Monarch). Cheju founded; starts temple.

The Mongols have Math, so I shop it around to Japan for Contact with China + 24 gold, a 123 gold value as Japan won't sell the contact for less than 99 gold. Mao has 3 gold in his treasury, lacks Math and Horseback Riding, but has one more city than we have. Gandhi has 42 gold and only four cities- he buys contact with China for the remainder of his treasury.

1100 BC (6)
Wonsan builds spear as the forest near it is cleared, and starts a worker.

1075 BC (7)
Seoul builds spear; starts settler. This has time to be changed by the next leader- I think we have maybe 2 more cities to claim before we start troop buildup, but if necessary we can get a sword in 4 turns instead. P'yongyang builds barracks, starts a spearman. For now, the spear fortifies in Seoul to help with MP and defense.

1050 BC (8)
Movement.

1025 BC (9)
Pusan builds spear; starts settler. If we decide to build the settler, it can probably build it exactly when it grows, with sufficient MM. For now, the spear fortifies there.

India has founded a city by the dyes north of Wonsan that will also effectively block any city built to grab the iron. Wonsan switches to temple. A Chinese warrior is finally sighted north of an Indian city- he and Gandhi know each other now.

1000 BC (10)
Movement.


Again, the settlers currently building can be swapped to swords if necessary. The military advisor says that we have an 'average' military as compared to India and China, and are 'weak' compared to Mongolia and Japan. All AI cities are probably defended with spears, with lots of random warriors wandering around (3 Indians in the north that I saw). We need more room, and we're going to have to go to war to get it. Plenty of cash will probably buy us embassies and a military alliance against whoever we do go to war with. We have one relatively weak civ, India, to our north, and one strong one, Mongolia, to our south. I would recommend against an alliance with Mongolia, unless he appears ready to join with Gandhi, as having him grab those Indian cities will only make him more powerful. Japan might be a good candidate for an ally, but they're also close to India. China probably isn't close enough to help militarily, but will make Gandhi worry about his northwestern border.

It'd be nice to take the iron and extra dyes up north, but it's not urgent as they need a cultural expansion and road through the jungle to claim them, while Seoul is built on an iron deposit. :goodjob:

Also, Mao has 53 gold, and no Math or Horseback Riding... someone should sell a tech to him soon, as India is cash-poor and has Horseback Riding.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1_1000_bc.zip

Borealis: I agree, we will need to go on the warpath soon, and Gandhi seems like the best target. (Nice to have iron under-Seoul/sole, too!) I think an early strike is warranted -- as soon as we can get a few sword (and 'pults, of course) on line. One advantage is proximity: the Indian heartland and capital look to be in the fog to our immediate northwest. It would be nice to hit them while they are still in rex mode. Let's start stoking some dragon-fire! :evil: [plasma]
Should we consider taking Pusan off of settler production, and switching to military build (our first catapult)?

edit: for smilie effect!

Will Grab the game tonight!

Hotrod < ----- Up now
Rowain (on deck)
UU
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis

1000 BC (0): Looking around and seeing no real land to plunk down our settler I veto the settler in Seoul and change to swordmand without wasting shields. Decided to leave Pusan for now on settler, may need it to full the void once the attack on India commences. Change Namp'o from barracks to catapult, wasting 1 turn. A city without a barracks should be producing the catapults. Build embassy in Karakorum (Mongols) for 31 gold, they are building the Oracle, due in 48 turns. We may need an alliance soon. Build embassy with Japan for 47 gold, Oracle due in 20 turns. Build embassy in China for 57 gold, They are building a settler, due in six growth to 2 in 6, :confused: they haven't fixed that bug yet. Trade China HBR for 50 gold. Set research at 100% to get Lit in 10 turns, losing 5 gpt.

975 BC (1): Seoul builds swordsman, starts another. Namp'o builds catapult and starts another.

950 BC (2): Mongol's come asking for 28 gold, I refuse and they declare war :ack:, not what we wanted, no one will join an alliance. Pusan changed to spearman, due next turn. Seoul changed to archer due in 3 vs. 5 for the sword.

925 BC (3): Pusan builds spear starts archer. The troups are suffling, move a spear to help protect Namp'o, sending sword to join the cat in Namp'o will have a couple of archer to join the party soon. Build embassy in Delhi for 30 gold. Hope India will join the fight against the Mongols. We get a new partner in the war for the WM and 85 gold. Trade China math, WM and 9 gold for Map Making. With our newly signed agreement to India we are now in for a 20 turns war. Unless ofcourse India breaks the deal!!

900 BC (4): Archers approach Cheju to the West, troups congrigating in Namp'o for deployment, the swordsman arrives form the North next turn. Pyongyang builds spear start archer, set to maximize sheilds, due in 4 vs. 7. Cheju is changed to spearman.

875 BC (5): Cheju builds spear, start warrior. 3 archer approach, a team is assembling, a spear, a cat and a swordsman await the archer.

850 BC (6): 1 spear is killed in Cheju, the other may not last the attack of 4 archers :(.

825 BC (7): Cheju is burned to the ground :(, Seoul builds an archer starts swordsman. Pusan builds archer starts another. The stack of 1 spear, 1 sword, 1 archer and a catapult are heading west.

800 BC (8): Stack continues to move, a second crew of 2 archers and a cat are following.

775 BC (9): The troup attack and kill 3 archers, and moving on Ta-Tu.

750 BC (10): Learn Lit, start Code of Laws at min science, due in 40 with +16 gpt. Trade Lit to Japan for 65 gold and Code of Laws. Trade CoL to China for TM and 60 gold. Researching Currency but set slider at 0% (Rowain can decide). Can be changed to something else without a problem.

There is a stack ready to attack Ta-Tu, it is only a size 1 city without culture so it will be razed. war was not started on my terms but that is too bad for us. India is a Gracious friend now in our fight against the Mongols. Trading lit may have been a bad idea but with war going on I didn't think of even starting the GL.

Next time I will learn to give in to the demands :(. Know when to see "yah sure take all my money" It would have bought us some time to get some more infrastructure. I focused on troops. Didn't even consider wonders. With any luck this war will produce a leader.

Also of note there are 2 catapults in range of the city and another being built.

Good luck!

Hotrod

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1_750_bc.zip

Hotrod, you won't have to worry about any of that silly diplomacy stuff in LK37. Just fight:hammer:

Very true!! :lol:

Got it

Rowain

Do I get it right we need to bombard even before we attack a Unit? Or is the Bombarement only needed for attacks on Cities?



Rowain

Only on cities. With every unit I think that would be too much.

Hotrod

Well I played before I posted the Question so I did only attack Units when I could bombard them but I doubt it makes much difference


750BC (0): Pusan to Horse. It makes 6 shields so it would build an Archer (at20shield) in 4 turns wasting 4 shields). A Horse needs one turn more without any waste and has the chance to retread.
Nanpo switched to Settler ; I want to resettle our lost site before India does it;
Seoul makes 9 shield working 2 unimproved grasslands although a mined one is available?
Change the worked tiles and Seoul makes now 10 shield which mean a Sword in 3 turns without any waste.
Then I check the preferences and I see. Governor is default for all Cities. Ungh :mad: Who uses a Governor?
If you let the AI decide what tiles should be worked you will end screwed. Don’t forget that’s the same AI that losses against a Human player even on Deity where it gets the tremendous advantages.

IT Seoul Sword->Sword;

730BC: Attack on Ta-Tu. Our catas fire but both miss; our Swordman attacks and dies :(
but then our Archers win and Ta-Tu is autorazed

IT: The archer which razed Ta-Tu is attacked. He kills a Warrior but dies versus an Archer.
Pusan Horse->Horse;

710BC: Movement towards Karakorum

IT: The Spear in the stack kills two Archers and is now elite;

690BC: Moving;

IT: Japans signs a Alliance with Mongols against us;
P’yangpo Spear->Cata;

670BC: moving;

IT: Settler-> Settler in Nanpo, we must expand;
Seoul gets a Scientist (not what I want but there is no time for a Temple now);

650BC: Attack on Karakorum: 1 arty hits, 2nd misses; Our Archers attack and win Karakorum is now a Korean province

IT: I watch with a smile on my face as an Mongolian Warrior kills an Indian Spear and enslaves the Settler the Spear was guarding;

630BC: Whip a Spear in Karakorum

IT: Spear in Karakorum Library started (cheapest culture building)

Pusan is now on 7 shields so instead of Horse we make a Cata next (could be a Archer too)
Seoul SM->SM;

Pyonyang starts a Settler after his Cata; Kyoto finished the Oracle

550BC: Hyangsun founded (on our old site) Starts Temple;



Afterthoughts: India and china would both give Philo for Literature but Mongols would give Philo for peace!. Our Alliance with India ends in 3 turns. I suggest keeping Lit for us and making peace with Mongols for their Philosophy. The Settlers now under production should go One to the ruins of Ta-Tu and one to the desert tile on the coast NE of the Hill between our Mainland and our Dyes city. It will secure our trading route to Dye-city and should get the Whales after a Borderexpansion


Good Luck Unique

Rowain






The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1_550_bc.zip)

Got it. I should be able to play and post tonight.

I did not turn on the governors :(. That explains why I was shaking my head as to why the citizens kept changing the working tiles, I didn't even think to check for governors. Don't the cities get highlighted when governors are on?

Anyway, will mongols go for peace? Sorry about the confusion reguarding attacking units. Having to use cats to attack any unit would be too difficult. The extra restrictions will already have will be tough enough.

Hotrod

Hotrod
Rowain
Unique Unit <--- playing
Mystery (on deck)
Meldor
Borealis

Don't know about the Governors. I can only say that the 'Capital Governor is default for all cities'-preference was turned on.

Mongols would give Philo for peace right now so I guess as long as we don't lose suddenly a lot of Units they will do so in 3 turns too.

@Unique: don't forget to cancel the Alliance first before we make peace.

Rowain

If we cancel the Alliance with India vs. Mongols will they sign one against Japan? Will they sign one now? India could serve as a buffer zone vs. Japan and give us time to build more units and continue our growth.

Hotrod

I will look into a possible alliance against the Japanese. I am also weighing the idea, on the other hand, of taking on India while they are engaged to their north. They are hemming us in to our north and west, and this might be a good opportunity (pre-elephants) to whittle them down. Any reactions to this proposal? (I'll hold off playing for now, in case this is :smoke: and other players want to chime in.)
Btw, I don't know who activated the governor. I never use them, and understood they were an SG no-no.

Our original plan was to attack Ghandi and considering the land we have this is the best move now. If we need an alliance against Japan I would suggest Mao since he is a Neighbour to Japan. I would rather see us allying with Mongols against India to get their land.

We must build a strong land now. Couse all 4 Civs that started on our Continent get their UU with Chivalry.

I propose to try to take as much as possible during Ancient Age and start to build a strong defense and Economy withthe beginning of Middle-Age. Lying low while all those Keshiks, Samurais, Riders and Elephants run around but ready to explode when Cavalry comes up.

Rowain

If china will go for it, :cool:! A military buildup for attack on India is still in the cards provided Japan stays away. Will the Mongols give peace to India after we cancel the alliance? Maybe Rowain is right and we could keep the Mongols in war with India and attack them ourselves, using our new friends the Mongols :lol:.

I agree about taking what we can in the Ancient times and letting the "knight UUs" kill each other while we wait for Metalurgy and Military Tradition to take them out with our UU and cavs.

If we can eliminate India before chivalry that would be a plus.

Any thoughts on wonder building?

Hotrod

Hm wonder-building.

Thing is we are very thin on infrastructure now. Our capital lacks a temple, we need a lot more workers, Marketplaces will soon be available, Libraries needed and so on. I would say if we get a Leader the Great Lib would be nice if not let us built up some infrastructure first before using our few shields on Wonders.

Two stacks of ~5 Swords,1 Cat,2 Spear should be enough to hurt India big time and give us the land we need.

Rowain

We are slowly growing populous and powerful, and have taught the Mongols a lesson.

Interturn: Why have we irrigated riverbanks? Is this the auto-worker at work?
Pop-rush temple at Wonson? Yes. Maximum efficiency how, and growth is stunted anyway, until we improve land. (I think it may have been :smoke: -- my :smoke: -- settling up here so early.
Our reg warrior takes Mongol elite warrior down to one hp ... then dies.

Seoul builds sword, set to sword.

Japan is building GL! So they have lit, too.

530 bc (1) : Military travels to western front.

(i) Mongol archers approach outskirts of Karakorum.

510 bc (2) Patroling horse kills reg Mongol warrior. Military movements.

(i) Japan wants to parlay. Peace for (our) tribute of 180 gold? "Not a chance."
Pusan trains spear, begins sword.

490 bc (3) Elite archer takes out Mongol archer.

(i) Alliance with Indians vs Mongols expires. Indians remain at war, however.
Seoul finishes sword, starts temple. (Subject to change.)
Nampo trains settler, starts worker.
English build Pyramids, in York.
Several Japanese warriors emerge from fog in north, approaching Wonsan.

470 bc (4) Mongols will no longer give philo for peace! We have some military built up and in place. Let's cause them some pain and see if they grow more reasonable.
China has construction. Price for alliance against Japanese is lit, WM, 320. Sounds expensive, and seems unnecessary. Will trade construction for lit, wm, 270 gold. Sounds expensive.
India will ally against Japanese, and give us philo, for lit, 240. This is tempting. It might keep the Indians occupied, softening them up for us later .... :evil: After reflection, I decline.
Horse kills Mongol archer; elite archer kills Mongol archer. Wonson worker taken off jungle clearing (aargh. But we don't have the military up here to defend him).

(i) Chinese start Great Wall. English complete Colossus, at York.

450 bc (5) Regular warrior emerges from Wonson to defeat reg Japanese warrior.
Troop movements. I'm putting together a stack on the western front to move against Almarikh.

430 (6) Stack attacks Almarikh. Pult misses. Sword defeats spear. Archer defeats spear. Wounded elite Mongol warrior remains in city. I move more forces up for next round.

410 (7) Almarikh razed. Mongols will give philo, all his gold (12), for peace. But not his maps? Okay, philo, 5 gold, wm for peace. Done.
Our continent (assuming that spit on the nw corner is not an isthmus) is a good size: with us, the Mongols, the Japanese, the Chinese, the Indians. There is some choice territory well to the nw, unclaimed, between India, China and the Japanese.
Gandhi has nothing to offer for lit. (Well, 1 gold. No thanks.) Chinese will sell construction for lit, wm, 260 gold. Too steep, and the tech can't be brokered because the other civs are too poor.

(i) Forbidden Palace message pops up.
Pusan revolts. Doh! :smoke: , sorry. They get a scientist.

390 bc (8) Japanese warrior, archer approach outskirts of Hyangsong. (Diverted from Wonson? I left Hyang undefended for a turn, not as an exploit, but to finish off Almirkh.)
Seoul finishes sword, set to temple (veto this if you want, but we now face no credible threats and it might be a good time to slip in a little building).

370 bc (9) zzz

390 bc (10) Mongol sword moves into our territory near Karakorum. Grr. Are they looking for round 2? Or just taking a short cut to their war with India?
Sword kills Japanese warrior. inch'on founded, on coast.

I check for brokering opportunities. India has currency, Construction. Currency can be had for 250, and China doesn't have it? I take the plunge: currency from India for 250 gold; construction from China for currency, wm, 50 gold. Mongols have both already?!?

Peace from Japan would cost us 100. I leave this question to our next leader.
Mongols and Indians still seem to be at war, in a desultory way. Some Japanese forces are approaching P'yong (which I had stripped of its spear), but I have moved some forces into the area for reinforcement.
I left the garrison in Karakorum unmoved, in case we wanted to strike against the Mongols (violating the peace). Even if Genghis does commit a dastardly strike, however, we have strong defenses in place.

Good luck to our next leader!

Wow, Pyramids and the Colossus within three turns in the same city??? That must be a great leader happening on at least one of those.

BTW, I got it.

Hotrod
Rowain
UU
Mystery <---- Playing
Meldor (on deck)
Borealis

Nice round UU and Rowain! Putting a hurtin on the Mongols :goodjob:

Hotrod

Sorry, folks. I'm having problems posting the save game. I will try tomorrow morning from work.

Reading over my post, I see I forgot to mention that the first time Seoul started a temple, I switched over to sword part way through. That's why it has no temple yet.

edit: some other items that escaped my official report:
1) We found Ulsan on the ruins of Ta-Tu.
2) We are about to begin researching polytheism. Switching before the turn begins will not waste any research.
3) Most currently set builds are non-military. Change any or all if they seem inappropriate. We are at war, but under no serious military threat. Of course, we may want to begin a buildup for war against India in the near future.

nope it was not your weed to settle Wosan , It was my Idea and I still think it was necessary. It may not be very productive right now but it is a long term investment

Rowain

Save game is here: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1_350_bc.zip

edit: you may have to add .sav to the name of the file once you've unzipped it. Sorry, I'm still getting the hang of this download system.

For a screenshot of our empire:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1_350_bc.jpg

edit: rats, the link is busted. There is a jpeg in the uploads3 folder, though.

Actually, the picture is at

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_350_bc.JPG

(the upload folder is case sensitive and you have to be wary of it.) You can also just show the image by

putting the link inside [ IMG ] and [ /IMG ] tags (without the spaces, of course. If you use the "post reply" instead of the "quick reply", the IMG button does this automagically for you, if you want.

Then you can actually see the picture, a la....

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_350_bc.JPG

HTH,
Arathorn

Thanks, Arathorn!

What is our relationship with India now? Was the alliance cancelled before we made peace with the Mongols? If we are building up to attack India soon anyway it may not matter much right now but may effect how the other civs treat us when we look for alliances against India later.

Hotrod

The alliance was cancelled before we made peace with the Mongols. (Actually, Gandhi wasn't interested in extending it -- though he continued to wage his own war with the Mongols. :crazyeyes: )

Cool :cool:, is he still gracious, I doubt it? Little does he know :satan: !

Hotrod

With the link now here I'll try to have it back tonight...as long as my dsl returns to working condition.

I apologize, I did not get to the game last night, but I will have it back after work tonight.

If Mystery finishes before Sunday, I need to swap with Bory as I will be on the road all day Sat.

Hotrod
Rowain
UU
Mystery13 <---- Playing
Meldor (Swapped ?)
Borealis (On Deck)

Provided Mystery reports before saturday ;)

Preturn, I change Pyongyang from settler to temple...no, I'll let the
settler complete to see if we can fill that open spot where a city
used to be. It's a longshot though, as we won't get the settler
there for 12 turns. I do change Pusan to temple, as we have an
entertainer hired there. We can get Polytheism in 11 at -4gpt.
Most AI civs seem to go Republic first. Does anyone think we can
buy that for less than 1000g at 2nd, 3rd or 4th prices? I say we run for Monarchy now (Republic is 25 turns at -4gpt!!!).

IT Our sword repels an archer and goes elite.

(1)330BC A string of 6 Japanese units are coming South from India? Otherwise, lot's of worker and military movement.

IT Indians and Mongols still at play. More Japanese move into the
area through India.

(2)310BC not much...

IT China allies with India against the Mongols...hmmm

(3)290BC Paring down the Japanese attackers. Sending units to
take a Japanese town or two. I don't think it's the right time
to get between India, Mongolia and China.

IT Oops, China and Japan ally against us! Japan also declares war on the Mongols...looks like it's open season.

(4)270BC Japan now wants 80 gold for peace...not yet. Not much
otherwise...Japanese units making no progress against us from the North. Japanese empire starting to get quite big.

IT Seoul builds a temple, I switch to library trying to shave a few
turns off the run to Monarchy.

(5)250BC Moving troops...warring with Japan is not really in our best interests, but switching to a war with India would probably be worse. I try for an alliance with the Indians against the Japanese but we don't have enough to sway them...we're on our own.

(6)230BC not much

IT India settles the city spot that we we're trying to get...then,
the bad news...they ally with Japan against us. Ok, now we'll go
take the new city and a few other Indian cities.

(7)210BC Attacking the Japanese units, we get a leader for our new Great Library in Seoul!

(8)190BC not much

(9)170BC Pult shots against newly formed Hyderabad...1 in 4.
Elite sword and elite archer finish the job.
Units near Wonson finish off the remaining Japanese forces.
The price for peace went from 120g last turn to 60g this turn
but I still won't pay!

IT We've left the ancient age behind with the arrival of Polytheism.
We build the Great Library, and the Japanese build the Great Wall in the same turn. Lucky timing. I go for Engineering but turn science down to 10%.

(10)150BC Main city demolition force has turned North toward
central India. Will try to come to peace with Japan again.
Cleaning up some Indian forces in the area, we get another great
leader (I don't think I've ever had two come up in an SG).
A Japanese spearman mad it through my lines near Ulsan. It may
be going to the Mongolian mine deposit South of us because we have
no luxuries or resources to pillage in the area. I've actually
turned science all the way off...no point wasting money on science
for a while. The Great Leader is in Pyongyang. With nothing major on the great wonder board, now is the time for a great Army. I don't think we have a good spot for the Forbidden Palace just yet, but maybe our next leader will feel differently.

Lots of war going on, everyone except the Mongols is against
us. Try for peace with Japan and China, then try to barter
Polytheism. We could still get the Great Lighthouse if you move
the leader to a coastal city. Lots of options for the next King.
We are still in despotism as we shut off research after Polytheism. Might still be wise to research Monarchy, as the civs
we know are warring too much to research.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_150_bc.zip

2 leaders?! Woot!
Careful about using the leader to rush the Lighthouse -- I assume that in combination with the Great Library it would trigger our Golden Age.
Maybe if we research Monarchy, revolt, then rush the Library [edit: Lighthouse] and GA? That's a lot of turns to hold a leader, I realize, and we might lose our chance at the Lighthouse. But, aside from holding the leader, it doesn't entail much in the way of resource costs that we wouldn't be spending anyway (since I would argue we should research monarchy even with the GL).
Then, as a monarchy in GA, we could wage war pretty effectively and carve out some room for ourselves -- something we need to do before all those chivalry UUs the AIs will have are roaming around looking for trouble.
The Army option, on the other hand, means devoting a high shield city (Seoul?) to a major build (Heroic Epic) -- something that might be a strain given the number of enemies we now face and the small number of cities we now have.

2 leaders :goodjob: !

I think perhaps an army is the best bet right now. We may want to wait on the Golden Age for now and hope to get Smiths and have a GA when our UU is available. We need to take take it to the Indians now and try to get a reasonable spot for the FP. Once we hit Monarchy we can start putting some gold into rushing projects, something I have found is the greatest benefit of a commercial civ. Other comments??

Roster:

Hotrod
Rowain
UU
Mystery13
Meldor (on deck)
Borealis <---- up now

Got it. I'll play later tonight, or early tomorrow. Researching Monarchy seems like our best bet at the moment, as well as using the leader to create an army. Taking out the Indians before they get the chance to build War Elephants is a must, as we can't stop their production by pillaging their resources. I'll have to look at the game when I get it to determine which Indian cities have sufficient culture to survive our attack, but in case I get another leader, what do people think would be a good choice for a FP location?

I can't say without looking at the map. Will check it out later and give my 2 cents.

Hotrod

I don't think the FP spot is available yet. If we are going to take out India, our FP location probably will come to us.
We have quite a few elite units, so we should probably use the leader right away. I agree with UU though, that we probably can't afford to build the Heroic Epic right away.
The consensus is to go for Monarchy now even with the GL. Therefore, science must be turned back on right away. I think that is the proper move since the other known civs are not researching very fast.

Looking at the map I have to agree with Mystery. No site yet. After India losses a couple cities a site should be come available, maybe then we will have a leader to rush the FP either in or near Bombay. One thing I didn't think about was the possibilty of holding the leader until feudalism and snagging the SunZu away from the 3 militaristic civs on our continent :cooool:. I think the heroic epic is worth it but like UU and Mystery pointed out it is not going to come for a while. Following Monarchy we could rush some libraries and push toward Metallurgy then really make the others pay ;).

Hotrod

If we go for the army, let's build a sword army. Our main assault stacks are going to advance slowly anyway (ferrying our bombardment units).

An alternative way to play this is to rush the Lighthouse and try to maximize the early Golden Age -- preferrably by hitting India hard and starting FP production somewhere in her heartland (and meanwhile using our extra income to buy peace from other civs).

I would say, though, that landing one of our wonder requirements (a science wonder) takes some of the pressure off of our complicated GA question.

Too bad Colossus is located off-continent: capturing it, then building another wonder of any kind, would also trigger the GA.

The added benifit of the GL would mean possibly earlier contact with the other continent and improving our output from the Great Library. I could see it go either way. The best would be another leader to rush the FP well inside India ;). The other civs will all be in a GA after the dawn of Chivalry. Having ours now would mean taking India out rather quickly and using the GA to build a large force to destroy their core cities if not all of there territory.

I leave it up to Borealis.

Hotrod

Borealis: We are coming up on 48 hours. :scan: Will you be able to post before the holidays?

Realizing that the holidays will require a good deal of juggling it seems that a longer deadline will be required or a lot of swapping but if someone wants more time or a swap just post the request or give an indication of when the game will be posted. We moved rather well through the first cycle and I would like to see that pace continue best we can through the next week, week and a half.

Thanks

Hotrod

Any word from Borealis??? If she doesn't post tonight Meldor feel free to grab the game tomorrow and complete by Thursday evening or so. Then Borealis will be up again, back to the regular rotation.

Hotrod

Just a quick reply from either Borealis or Meldor to say what the status of the game is. A little info is better than speculation ;).

OK, got it.

Hotrod
Rowain
UU
Mystery13
Meldor <----- Playing now
Borealis (on deck ??)

150 BC (Pre-turn)
No way we are going to make progress with the current state of affairs. We can not take on all three of the big dogs at one time. Japan is in the middle so.....Japan gets 60g for peace. We then trade Japan Monotheism for their WM, 60g, RoP and alliances against both China and India. We change several temple builds to libraries. Change one to a cat so we can atttack cities in more than one place at a time.

The precise records for the time from 130 BC to 10 BC have been lost. We do know that two Indian cities were auto-razed and Pyongsong was founded by the lake. It will have wheat and flood plains. This will finally give us the settler factory we have lacked. Another settler is building that will hopefully get the other two wheat and we can build workers as well. We have Republic from the GL. Persia finished the Colossus.

10 BC
The troops are healing and heading for both Delphi and Bombay. A settler is on the way to replace the city razed at the Ivory.
(I) Nada

10 AD
The first troops with the cats arrive outside the two cities, bombardment begins next turn.

30 AD
More troops arriving.

50 AD
Delhi holds by a 1 HP spear and an archer. Bombay falls and is ours.

The settler/spear is headed for the spot on the hill beyond Pyongsong that will get the two other wheat. The settler near the Ivory is in position to settle next turn, giving it a bonus wheat after expansion.

Hot1 50 AD Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_50_ad.zip)

Nice round Meldor :goodjob:! One question, what did you decide to do with the Great Leader??

Hotrod (on deck)
Rowain
UU
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis (24 hrs for got it)

Looking at the save, we built an army. It seems to be unblooded yet, though -- as the Heroic Epic is not yet a build option.

Sorry for the slip on that one. Yes, an army was built and the one archer that had already generated a GL was added to it. I was planning on adding the sword that had also generated a GL before I put it into battle.

If Borealis doesn't respond tonight I will grab the game and play 10 tonight.

Hot 1 from 50AD : Diplo check war with India will continue for at least 10 more turns. India will give up a city for peace now we'll see after we take Delhi.

IB: China and Mongols sign a peace treaty. India counter attack kills an elite archer by Delhi :( and promoted there unhurt archer to elite.

70 AD (1): Seoul builds spearman starts horseman. All units retreated south from Delhi waiting on reinforcements to attack with ground units, retreat for now, losing the elite archer hurt. Found Taejon near the ivory. Mongols have furs for trade but want monotheism and dyes.

90 AD (2): Bombay is rioting. Pyongyang builds spear starts another. Take the elite archer that left the city of Delhi. Moving swords and spear to the front lines. Continue migration of the settler to the North West.

110 AD (3): Forces are in postion to take Delhi next turn. settler movement continues, road to ivory continues. Spear arrives in Bombay, it is being starved :satan:. Furs are still too expensive. China will accept peace right now but we still have the alliance with Japan, China is loaded 800 + gold.

130 AD (4): Seoul builds horsey starts settler. 2 swords kill 2 reg spears at Delhi after 4 cats missed. Take the city. Army will get a sword added next turn.

IBTW: Mongols and china sign alliance against Japan. Mongols declare on Japan.

150 AD (5): Pusan builds galley starts library. Inch'on builds library starts catapult to take Lahore. Pizzi's Honor is now in the army with the Elite archer.

170 AD (6): Lots of troop movement. Spear arrives at Taejon. Army and cats are forming up a stack to go for Madras the new capital. The elites are healing in Delhi. Settler/spear pair arrives at the next city site, on the river with a possibility of 3 floodplain wheat.

190 AD (7): Seoul builds a settler starts a marketplace. Pyongyang builds a spear starts another. Ulsan builds barracks starts spearman. Found Paegam.

210 AD (8): Hysangsan builds barracks starts spear. Moving troops toward Calcutta and Madras. Settler/spear pair in galley to go around Lahore jungle city.

230 AD (9): Begin attack on Madras, kill 2 of the 3 spears but fail to take the city, lose 1 sword, 2 horses severly wounded, army has first victory but took damage. Destroyed Calcutta and captured 5 workers.

250 AD (10): Took Madras and 3 workers with the army. Started Library. Capital jumped to Lahore! :D.

India will give up Jaipur for Peace leaving only Lahore as his only city. If we take the peace deal we get to keep Jaipur and not raze it. we have to cancel the alliance we have with Japan first. He is now gracious but I don't know if he will be happy if we make peace with India. China will also talk but will not part with Monarchy. We are still a despotism and no new techs came from the great library :(. We may need to research Monarchy on our own and turn the slider back on. Who knows how far up the tree the other civs are.

If we accept peace now we may be able to go to republic and build up some more infrastructer and build up our forces for when the Hwach'a arrives. No one has chivalry yet and now is the time to make peace I think and go for republic, build the FP (or at least get a site), build the Heroic Epic.

Hotrod
Rowain <--- up now
UU (on Deck)
Mystery13
Meldor
Borealis(???)


Here is the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_250_ad.zip

Got it

perhaps i will need time till Sunday


Rowain

No problem ;) Thanks for the notice ahead of time

Sorry about the lack of posting- I haven't been able to get online for most of this week. The phone line (our only net connection) died a few hours after I posted the "got it" response, and with ill family members I haven't been able to access the internet until late this afternoon when the phone company finally fixed our street's outage- I guess all the repair workers were on vacation. :(

I'm willing to slip back into the rotation in this next run-through, after Meldor, to help keep things in order.

On the subject of the game, do we have anything to gift Japan with to make them temporarily happy with alliance-breaking? I agree with hotrod in that we need a retrenching period, to add pikes to our cities before the samurai/keshik warriors/elephants/riders arrive. How are we doing on the trade net/terrain improvements? Once everyone stops warring, the tech pace will pick up, and the GL should allow us to make some cash, either by 40-turn or tech selling, so buildings are rushable. We need at least a few more workers to make our new Indian cities productive, especially since non-industrious 'captives' work very, very slowly. We can always cash-rush improvements if necessary, especially marketplaces that will pay for themselves.

Welcome back Borealis! :D.

We shall see how this plays out. Rowain has the game and I am interested to see if the wars continued or peace rung throughout the land. Taking India was key, settling on a FP should be a priority now.

Hotrod

Sorry only a Summary this time:

We are still at war with China and India. India has only Lahore left which will need a bit more time cause we need roads through the Jungle for our Cats but I autorazed Jaipur and a new founded city. I tried to capture a Chinese Settler but our Horse retreated.

Our southern Galley sunken by a Barbarian attack. No new techs from GL and nobody has any new techs on our Continent. The good News no Wonders have been finished so perhaps the other Civs aren't that peacefully either.

Although I stayed at war I starte some Infra-projects.

Suggestions: Kill India; take the Chinese settler (or the town he will found) and then make peace and let us build Granaries, Markets, Libs, Temples .

FP perhaps in Bombay or Madras but other possibilities are still open.


The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_350_ad.zip)

Rowain

Hotrod
Rowain
UU <------ Up now
Mystery13 (on Deck)
Meldor
Borealis

Recommend starting the FP soon. A leader rush would be a bonus. :lol:

Got it. Will play tonight.

A new warlord ascends to power over the Dragon Children, Unit Kon. His first measure is to tour the cities of his empire. He finds his people slowly growing and spreading across the land. Korean catapults have come to be feared across the breadth of the known world, but our military is thin and extended. Above all, our people need roads, infrastructure, libraries, markets, courthouses – the threads that will knit the Dragon Children together.

Pre-turn: Perhaps the library at Paegam could be rushed. It would cost 2 citizens, but this loss would quickly be restored by the fertile riverbanks nearby. We need to extend our cultural boundaries here, to encompass the iron (and deprive the Japanese of this source, at least). With no possibilities for forestry in this hot, flat landscape, we whip the library.

360 ad: Paegam finishes library, set to worker. Galleys begin circling coastline to eastern shores. With the Great Library, I think we should try several suicide galley gambits, to broaden our contacts and increase the Library’s yield.

Various troop movements.

370 ad: Kaesong founded, starts library. A barbarian camp emerges from the fog.

(int) China and Japan sign peace treaty. China founds city on the northern coast, along the rim our future FP first ring. We will have to stay at war long enough to wheel cats into place and raze it. (War moves slowly, with the bombardment varient.)

380 ad: movement. Road being carved through jungle to Lahore (under heavy guard) to lay siege to the Indian capital.

Pyongsong trains settler, set to courthouse. Taejon finishes library, begins marketplace.

390: movement. Barb camp pops a barb horse. Suicide galley # 1 ventures into the mists of the Eastern Seas (“Here be Dragons”). Pusan finishes granary, begins training sword.

Galley sinks.

410: Korean horse attacks barb horse, looses. Aargh! I ‘ve left one of our cats exposed.

Barbarian riders overrun catapult; the heathens burn the mysterious contraption. (Major weed here. Sorry. :( )

Karak finishes barracks, begins training sword. (We need southern defenses; sooner or later the Mongols are going to attack again.)

430 ad: Road to Lahore finally finishes. Our cats wheel to the edge of the enemy city.

440 ad: Cats fire on Lahore. Sword and horse take out two spear defenders. The city is ours, and the Indians have been utterly vanquished.
After some internal debate, I decide to hold onto the city. The placement is less than ideal (1 tile from coast). But with dyes in the area, other civs will try to plant here. We can always abandon and relocate once we have secured a stronger cultural border up here in the northern territories. City begins training worker, for jungle clearing.

Second suicide galley crosses Ocean of Mists. Sights pink border!

Pyongsong market finishes; city begins training horsemen. (I am trying to mix a few military builds in with the cultural program.) Pusan finishes sword, begins marketplace.

Galley survives the fearsome storms of the Eastern Seas! The Dragon smiles on his children: we establish contact with the French! [dance]
They are in communication with the English, Persians. They are behind in tech; have not yet discovered polytheism. (Since my turn ends upon initial contact, I will leave any bargaining to the next leader.)

Concluding observations:
I have not yet managed to start on the Forbidden Palace (and of course, got no leaders.) It might be worth staying at war with the Chinese in hopes of fishing a leader out of the conflict to rush the FP. I have begun a courthouse build in Madras (where we have lumberjack forests) in case we have to build it brick by brick.

Only the Chinese have monarchy. They wanted monotheism for peace (not likely, Mao).

The game: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_450_ad.zip

Here's a snapshot of the mysterious pink people beyond the Eastern Seas.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_French_contact.JPG

Well done the French are no more and the Library should start giving us tech in bunches. :goodjob:!

I would recommend not trading for contacts just yet. In PTW the AI like to trade contacts much more frequently than "vanilla" CivIII. I am not sure about continuing war with China. If they pull in the Mongol's or Japan we may never see peace. IMO I think we should take that lone Chinese city then make peace and switch to Republic or try to get Monarchy from China and build the FP from Scratch.

Another option is to move on the Mongols and secure the southern part of the continent. We can't fight on both fronts and taking the war to China is a difficult task, given the distance to there cities.

Just my two cents! It is ultimately up to Mystery ;).

Hotrod
Rowain
UU
Mystery <---- up now
Meldor (on deck)
Borealis

got it

Actually, war with the Mongols might be a good idea. They are isolated and small: we should be able to seal off other fronts and take them out.
Otherwise, they will be a thorn on our southern flank, and a real threat if we get embroiled in serious warfare against either the Chinese or the Japanese.

I agree with UU about the Mongol-war and with not trading our contacts.

Rowain

If we can take the Mongols now is the time before they get Chivalry and their UU. If the War is brought to them we need to make peace with China and try to pry Monarchy from them or hopefully the GL.

Hotrod

Note that the Mongols do need iron for their UU. Depending on how many iron sources they have, and how far they are within their borders, we might be able to pull off a 'paralyzing strike' at first, and follow up later. The main problem will be keeping Japan and China out of it.

As far as I recall (can't open the game up now), the Mongols did have an iron source, which a century or so ago they hadn't yet hooked up, but probably have by now. They also have horses within reach, but not yet encompassed within cultural borders (again, if I'm remembering right).
Both resources, btw, are near our own borders, and would be easily pillaged.

I'll have my turns finished tonight

Preturn I change nothing, though I'm not too keen on 1 spt courthouses. Looking over our map, I think we should build an FP on former Indian lands and move our Captital in toward Mongolian lands. Then, courthouses may make more sense. Right now, we're building courthouses in an area that will have an FP close by. Could be a lot of wasted turns. I think the combo of an Ulsan palace and a Bombay FP would work very well.

Actually, Ulsan is building a courthouse now. It
would finish an FP in 23 turns. Then we could use a leader to rush the palace in Bombay (yes, I'm switching places because the palace would take 89 turns in Ulsan while the FP is 172 turns away in Bombay).
Advantage, we get an FP in only 23 turns, and it is far enough away from Seoul to be effective.
Disadvantage, former Indian lands still far away from either site.

I'd like a few responses back before I take on this plan.

Here is a picture of our lands. An FP in Ulsan would bring Mongolia
into play (when we get it:)). Bombay may be too close for a new
palace, but we can decide on that when we get a leader. Any thoughts?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Korea_450AD.jpg

Intriguing plan, Mystery. I like the idea of an Ulsan FP. What about a palace in Madras, rather than Bombay? Since we're commercial, that string of cities between the two axes should be quite productive, and moving the palace radius north draws in some quite fertile territory to the northwest.

Ulsan will work! We should see an immediate benift even without moving the palace. I would only be concerned about moving the palace by hand to Madras or Bombay. Also, Seoul and the cities around Seoul will most likely need a courthouse to help corruption. I don't have a feel for how much will be lost to corruption once the palace is moved. In addition, we will be losing our wonderplace holder for what could be, without a leader of course, a long time to come. We still need another wonder to get our GA. I think structuring our wonder building to get Smith's, or any others that may come our way.

Hotrod

I agree with Ulsan and a leader rushed palace in Bombay(Madras)


Rowain

Ok, I'll switch Ulsan to FP and have it back tonight. Later, we can use a leader to move the palace. We can build a courthouse in Seoul and other current core cities just before we swap the palace site and they should remain very productive.

Ok, consensus says to swap Ulsan to the FP. Due to the upcoming, close proximity FP, I change Pyongsong off courthouse to library. I change Hyangsan from courthouse to marketplace for the same reason.

IT France gets pissy with our unit in their territory. Fine. Also,
damn, Namp'o riots on me before my first turn. I thought I checked everyone, but I guess I missed this one.

(1)460AD Lots of movement. First, I'll take a Chinese city and see
if the price for Monarchy comes down. Second, I'll start sending
other military units toward Mongolia in preparation for WAR.

IT England wants to swap territory maps. I see no problem with this. Wow! They are huge.

(2)470AD I trade territory maps with France. As a throw in to the
trade, we get contact with the Persians for 100 gold. We then trade territory maps with Persia. From what I can see, France, England and Persia can only get to our continent via suicide galley run.

IT We finally get Monarchy from the Great Library! I'll go for
a change immediately. We have 6 cities riot (I don't know how to
use "scroll ahead", but we only have four turns of anarchy left.

(3)480AD Not much happens, though we are ready to take the Chinese city of Paoting in the next turn or two.

(4)490AD We don't take Paoting yet...next turn.

(5)500AD We almost lose an elite Swordsman (from a mountain), fighting a vet archer...but we don't and instead we get a great leader. Our Army destroys Paoting. We immediately go for a peace deal (and we get their world map). We have a settler in the area, so we'll resettle up here and then decide what to do with the leader. As a final bonus, our vet horse goes elite removing a barb threat from the area.

(6)510AD I decide to build the Hanging Gardens in Madras. Here are my reasons. First, it's way too early to move the palace here, as the core cities must keep producing at high levels for the war in Mongolia. Second, we are already having happiness problems, even with three lux's, and Hanging Gardens gives us an extra content citizen. Third, it's not obsolete until Steam Power.

IT We come out of anarchy. I didn't know that we had Republic
available as well. It didn't come on my turns, so I guess someone
decided not to switch to it. I think it's the best, so I'll try
it first. Hanging Gardens will help a lot and we can still easily
war with Mongolia under Republic.

(7)520AD As I'd hoped, 0% lux works as only Namp'o must keep an entertainer, and it will have a Marketplace in 3 to solve that problem. I rush a settler in Manp'o, as there is room for two cities where Paoting used to be and I don't want the Chinese to beat us there.

(8)530AD Actually, there is room for 3 cities up here, so I rush
another settler out of Madras.

(9)540AD moving settlers to claim the last space to the North.

IT Paegam riots on me...I don't understand this, as the city screen
shows 2 happy faces, 1 content face and 2 unhappy faces, along with a scientist. Every city I've ever mm'd in this game won't riot if
happy greater than or equal to unhappy???

(10)550AD Ok, three settlers are one square from their intended
locations. I have a horse on one site. I have a sword on another
site. And the third settler should go to either the empty grassland
square to the Northwest, or the hill directly West. I like the grass
square better, but I don't control the outcome.

The FP is in 11 turns. Our current core cities should start building
courthouses in preparation for the palace switch. I'm thinking that we'll pop another leader in the Mongolian war and we'll want to switch then.

We don't have much military left...in fact, our defenses are quite
pathetic...but what we do have is heading South. I have not switched science back on, as we had already invested 30 turns into Engineering, and, of course, we have the Great Library to cover tech for us still.

Finally, I just checked and communications between our "friends" has not yet been sold. Hopefully, we can keep this to ourselves until the GL expires and use the knowledge for tech. Also, we are not currently researching at all due to our scientist in Paegam being reassigned to entertainment. Have fun!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_550_ad.zip

some comments:

Happyness: The switch from Scientist to Entertainer is unnecessarry; If you have as much happy as unhappy faces the city stays content. The unhappiness is checkedd first so perhaps when the game checked for riots Paegam had more unhappyness but after all things were calculated it has enough happyness to stay content. So please switch it back and let our research towards the glorious Hwacha continue.

Scroll Ahead: When the first city riots you select 'Zoom to city' and in the city-screen you have two arrows left and right from the city-name. With these Arrows you can scroll through all Cities and adjust happiness.

Contacts: The AI never uses Suicide-galeys. So Persia with the Great Lighthouse is the only civ that can (perhaps) reach our continent and sell communications.

Good Luck Meldor :)

Rowain

Good Round Mystery :goodjob:

Hotrod
Rowain
Unique Unit
Mystery
Meldor <----- Up Now
Borealis (on Deck)

I see it, but it will be Sunday before I can play it. If Borealis can/wants to jump in there before that she is more than welcome to do so.

If Borealis can grab and play before then great but check back to see if she got it. If she hasn't posted her turns before Sunday lets go with the regular rotation.

Hotrod

Rowain, thanks for the scroll ahead tip...are we allowed to use it in our game?

Also, your happiness explanation is exactly my knowledge as well. However, the city DID riot under those conditions. That is why I was so frustrated.

From what I can see, I don't believe the Lighthouse will get them across. I cannot confirm that, though, since there is still a bit of fog out there.

I had the same thought re the Persians: I don't think the Lighthouse gives them enough extra movement to establish contact. (Although their might be an island in the fog there.) Let's maintain isolation as long as possible. (Eventually one of the civs on our continent might declare war if we refuse to trade contact. Worth a war, in many cases.)

Mystery: on the scroll ahead, IIRC is it an exploit if you use it to USE tiles in 2 or more overlapping cities to allow the "bonus" grass from one city to be used to get an improvement wonder exectera then zoom to that city change the tiles that are worked then "scroll ahead" to use that same tile in an overlapping city to get a bonus in a second city that hasn't been checked for production yet. To manage happiness I think it is something entirely different. If you zoom to Seoul after the civil disorder pop up you know you will have other cities in riot mode then managing there happiness with enteratainers, taxman, and scientist IMHO are not exploits just saving you the pain of seeing every single city pop up.

Hotrod

q Mystery: Here is the rule-set according Scroll-ahead from the Realms beyond Civ - Epics which are something like the standard rules for many Succession games (and for my soloplay too)

INTERFACE EXPLOITS

"Free Wealth": If you set a city to wealth, you get the benefit of the cash it generates before the game goes through the city production rotation. Thus, if you zoom a city earlier in the queue, and "scroll ahead" to the wealth city, you can get double production on a given turn by assigning a project to the city after the wealth has already been tabulated, as the wealth benefit registers before the city's actual production turn comes up. All use of scroll ahead to get "free wealth" is prohibited.

"Shared Tile": You can use "scroll ahead" after a particular city has registered use of a tile in the production queue between turns, to reach a city that shares that tile but has not taken its turn yet, to "work a tile" on the same turn by more than one city. Any deliberate use of scroll ahead to share tiles is prohibited.

"Instant Military": You can use "scroll ahead" after the AI's movement phase has completed, but before the turn ends, during the between phase, which opens the possibility of being able to react to the AI move in an exploitive way, allowing you to play underdefended and rush Instant Military any time you need it. Two actions are still allowed. Action One: Scrolling ahead to repair tile arrangements screwed up by the invasion of military units (to override the pathetic auto-governor's poor choices) is still allowed. Action Two: scrolling ahead to make use of technology discovered on that turn is still allowed, regardless of what the AI's are doing. All other scroll ahead action in response to AI moves between turns is now prohibited.

"Free Healing": Normally, if a unit moves, it is not supposed to heal at the end of that turn. However, when the game is saved and loaded, the "has moved" flag is not maintained. It is redetermined from movement remaining. If a damaged unit can make it to a barracks city without using any movement -- via rails and "sailing port to port" -- and you save and then load the game, it will heal at the end of that turn. Saving and reloading to deliberately gain free healing is prohibited.

"The Big Picture": On any turn after discovering new tech, you can click "What's the Big Picture", and from there get to any of the operational menus with the Function keys. This opens all manner of between-turn access, even before you get into the production queue, with a number of loopholes and exploits opened up. ALL use of clicking "The Big Picture" between turns to gain deliberate access to menus is now prohibited. Any use of scroll ahead for legitimate purposes must come through zooming during the production cycle.

As far as I know it is allowed to use scroll ahead for Happiness-problems.

As mentioned this are the rules for RB-games so an Succession-game Leader can allow what ever he wants.


According Happyness Your undestanding is correct but as I said I think the City had more Unhappiness(for whatever reason) during the checking phase. When I switched the Entertainer to Scientist and hit nextturn the city stayed in order.


Rowain

Thanks Rowain. I guess something must have happened that I missed. I made sure the scientist was set properly when I changed to Republic. At that time, the city screen showed 2 happy, 1 content, 2 unhappy and 1 scientist. I let it go. The next turn it rioted. I zoomed on the city to see why, and it was still in the same form. Therefore, I assumed the city would continue to riot if not changed. Nothing happened between turns, no lux deals or anything else that could affect happiness and the city obviously did not grow. It simply went into disorder and I still don't know why. If the city is ok now then I guess I'll forget about it.

And from now on I'll use scroll ahead to prevent disorder when changing governments mid-turn.

Don't worry the city-happiness is sometimes very strange. I have cities continually going into WLKD and out from it without any changes. Perhaps this has to do with Lux-tax and floatpoint numbers.


Rowain

I didn't see Borealis post, so I have it.

[EDIT] Delete///statement was incorrect

Hotrod
Rowain
UU
Mystery
Meldor <---- playing
Borealis (on deck)

550 AD (Pre-turn)
If we are going to assualt the Mongols we need a bigger army. We also have a bunch of cash. I give Japan WM, Monarchy, and 654g for Feudalism. I then sell it off to everyone else to get their world maps and cash. We upgrade all of the swords and spears we can to MDI and pikes, respectively. We still have over 1200g left, and I need places to build military. I rush an MDI in Karakorum, a library in Pyongsong, a market in Hyangsan, a temple in Pyongyang, a harbor in Inch'on and a library in Bombay. We still have over 600g left and an income of 110gpt. I also set the entertainer in Namp'o to a scientist to get Engineering in 10 turns. Namp'o is building a temple which will be complete 1 turn before the city grows again, which will keep it from rioting. The Mongols have 5 swords and 2 archers in our territory near Karakorum. As they are at war with Japan, I will allow them to wander off to Japan while we build up our resources. It also looks like the Japanese and Mongols have destroyed enough cities, that if we rush a settler or two, we can vulture in on some new cities. We notice that Paegam is rioting, we set the entertainer there to a tax collecter. Now, after all of that we will have 10 boring turns preparing to take out the Mongols.
(I) We watch the Mongols kill off a Japanese spear, and then the Japanese counter -attack takes out two swords at the cost of one archer. Two more Mongol archer enter our territory. Karakorum completes an MDI and starts another. Bombay completes its Library and starts a temple. Pyongyang finishes its Temple and starts an MDI. Pyongsong completes a Library and starts a settler (we need to get them more shields). Hyangsan raises a Market and starts an MDI. Inch'on is done with the Harbor and starts a Market. The Mongols starts Sun Tzu's.

560 AD (1)
Do some more upgrades. Move troops in the direction of the Mongols. After much thought I change the HE build in the Seoul to Sun Tzu's. I don't think I will be in battle during my turns, and I can build HE in the FP city as soon as it is done. Rush the Library in Kaesong.
(I) The Mongols kill off two Japanese archers and then the Japanese kill off one Mongol sword, but he take an archer with him. A chinese settler/spear pair appear near our new city site (to be built next turn). Wwill find joy in watching them turn around and leave.Kaesong completes its Library and starts a Temple.

570 AD (2)
Change the taxman in Paegam to an entertainer as it just grew and needs a smige more happiness now. Have to add a taxman at Taejon as it just grew. Chonju, Sariwon, and Suwon and all founded in former Chinese lands and they all start a Library. Rush the settler at Pyongsong. Change product at Paegam to a settler and rush it as well.
(I) The Japanese trade two more archers for a sword. The Chinese settler/pear is still moving in our direction. Now just where might he be headed? Maybe he is headed for future goodies in the jungle, we will watch him. Pyongsong and Paegam finish settlers and start pikes. The Chinese start Sun Tzu's. The Mongols are also sending a sword and two archers in a strange direct, not at the Japanese.

580 AD (3)
We divert so troops to gather near the wandring Mongols. We will ask them to leave as soon as we have the troops to take them out.
(I) Japan kills off one Mongol archer. Lahore builds a worker and starts a Library.

590 AD (4)
Now that there are some MDI near, the mini-mongol SoD turns to the north. Hurry the pike in both Pyongsong and Paegam. Ask the Mongols to leave, they refuse and declare war! We kill off a Sword and two archers, leaving two archers still in our territory. One of those gets bombarded by two cats and is down to 1 HP. We steal a worker from the Mongols and head for the first city.
(I) One archer pillages. Pyongsang builds an MDI and starts another. Pyongsang builds its Pike and start a settler. Same for Paegam. The Mongols send an archer out to get the worker back. The 1 HP archer heads for home. The Mongols have to pull back all of their workers and didn't even get to finish connecting up the iron, too bad.

600 AD (5)
We kill the pillaging archer. The archer after the worker gets nailed by a cat and then whacked by an MDI.
(I) The Mongols try to kill an MDI with archer and we get an elite MDI.

610 AD (6)
Rush the Libraries in Lahore and Manp'o to get the borders up and get the jungle covered. Hopefully this will stop the Chinese settler headed that way. Ask the Japanese archer to leave (we don't want them getting to the Mongol cities before we do. I rush the MDI at Karakorum. Haeju is built on a hill with a river and lots of mountains. It starts building a Libary.
(I) The Japanese SoD of ten archers moves back into our territory. We will let them move one more turn before asking them to leave again. Karakorum completes an MDI and starts another. Manp'o completes a Library and starts a worker. Pusan finishes its Market and begins a Pike. Namp'o completes its temple and starts a catapult. Lahore builds its Library and starts a worker. Hyangsan trains an MDI and starts a Pike.

620 AD (7)
We kill off two more Mongol archers and move in on Ulaanbaatar to stop any possible Mongol iron. Japanese settler beat us to nice spot on coast by one turn. We will have to build on hill. Taegu is built, it will have lots of shields near and be close to FP. It starts a Library. Ask the Japanese to leave and once more they comply. By building the city before asking them to leave, that moved them an extra 5 squares away from the Mongols. I am hoping that the Mongols will beg peace from the Japanese before they get mad enough to declare war on us. Put the scientist a Namp'o to work and change the taxman at Taejon to a sceintist.
(I) The Japanese now have 11 archers a spear and a cat in their SoD.

630 AD (8)
Movement and rest. Two cats and an MDI arrive outside of Ulaanbaatar.
(I) Nada.

640 AD (9)
Bombard Ulaanbaatar to see how many defenders are there but the second cat fails. We wait one more turn before attacking.
(I) We learn Engineering and start Invention at 1 scientist. I would crank up science but I leave that for the next person to decide. p'yongyang build an MDI and starts another. Namp'o finishes a cat and starts a harbor.

650 AD (10)
We bombard Ulaanbaatar and then take it with 2 MDI. We get three free workers and start in on a Library. Ask China to move the settler/spear and they agree, but it doesn't move. Both Lahore and Manp'o had border expansions last turn so we will see if they turn back. There is still five squares they can settle on and we will see if they turn or not. If they don't, you can almost bet there is going to be rubber there within the radius of the new city. If we push a temple in both cities we can probably make any new chinese city flip.

Hot1 650 AD Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_650_ad.zip)

Excellent ! :goodjob:

Hotrod (on deck)
Rowain
UU
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis <---- up now 24 hrs for got it

The Mongols are on the ropes. Just as an FYI engineering will bring in a lot of gold from England and Japan. England has Theology but they are the only ones and we should get it from the GL soonish. The Mongols will not see their UU this game, they need only horses but they have none to use :lol:, with the MDI online and our cats rolling we should move through them pretty quickly, there is no jungle to take our first :lol:. Once the FP is online all the Mongols cities should be pretty productive.

Hotrod

Got it. I'll probably play and post Monday night.

:scan: - Will give Borealis until tomorrow before we move on.

I was hopping to get it tonight .

Hotrod

Hotrod, go ahead... I had an unexpected sticky situation come up, and I haven't been able to play my turns. I thought I would get a chance to play, but real life interfered yet again. :( I should be able to swap turns with you as it will be resolved tomorrow morning.

NP - Thanks for the heads up

I got it - Borealis on deck

My how things have changed :)

650 AD (0): Only thing I changed was to put Souel on Max food to grow in 3, SunZu in 24 :( from 18 before, hoping the extra citizen will pay off.

660 AD (1): Pusan builds pike starts another. FP completes in Ulsan :D. Japans Archer SoD is continuing toward the Mongol's. Perparing the units for a rush on the Mongol capital soon.

670 aD (2): Persia will most likely contact Japans soon. Hyangsan builds MI starts another. Taejon builds market starts cat.

680 AD (3): Continue moving pikes toward the south. And preping the MI for attack. The Japanese SOD was inching closer to Mongol lands, I ask him to leave he does but is now Cautious. With over 1200 gold to our name I look for infrastructure to rush. Hurry courthouse at Bombay. Hurry Aqueduct at Ulsan, it will grow very well and become very productive, with a temple and a market it will reach size 10 in no time.

690 aD (4): Bombay completes the courthouse, starts on Marketplace. Pyongsong completed a settler, starts marketplace, moving settler to the Western front. Ulsan builds aqueduct starts market.Paegam builds settler starts another.

Quick diplocheck finds that Persia has learned Engineering, decide to trade engineering to England for 14gpt and 17 gold and her map. Trade Engineering to Japan for 400 gold and his map. Spend some more gold on rushes in the north.

700 AD (5): Madras builds library starts pike. Kaesong builds temple starts marketplace. Suwon builds library starts walls. P'yongyang builds MI starts Heroic Epic. The attack b