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Decimatus
Oct 23, 2010, 06:56 AM
Current Live Version: V8

Ready for Alpha Test. You should see it on the ModHub, just put Proc into the search bar.

The below link is an alternate download to the in game modhub. Put this file in your Documents/MyGames/CIV5/MODS folder and then click the install button in game.

If that doesn't work, you may need to try an alternate install method:

Download the mod browse on over to My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\ folder and paste it here then take that <modname>.civ5mod and rename it to a <modname>.7z file. Download the program 7-zip install it then use it to extract the mod file. So you have a folder structure as follows My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\<modname>. Load up civ and it should be there to select



Current goal for Alpha Testers is balancing and bug finding.

Content is being added at a high rate.

Special Thanks:
FiresForever for the multiple tech pages mod.
FiresForever for the multiple social pages mod.
DeepBlue for the resource generator mod.
DrBalthar for the wonder splash images.
Feuteupool for 250+ icons and unit flags.
knatte_Anka for unit flags.
Sneaks for the graphical fix for the base 5 tile yields, as well as the graphical fix for the Fishing Boats.
Kael, Dale, and other community members who have provided insight and knowledge into Civ 5 Modding.

Current Test Version: V9
V9 Link: http://www.mediafire.com/?bnfzmr607jkxtjq

DLC Fix: http://www.mediafire.com/?nkfvda8u8at8fo4 (Only for Inca/Polynesia DLC's. Enable AFTER CtP Mod.)


Possible Crash Wall Fixes:
1 http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?104004-Dirt-Farmer-s-save-crash-please-try-something
2 http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?104027-Possible-hotfixes-for-crashing-slow-games-READ-HERE
3 Zoom in close on the map before the Crash Wall is experienced.



V9 Change Log:
1 New Resource System! All resources, including the 27 Vanilla resources, now spawn on the map using Deep Blue's Resource Generator Mod. As far as gameplay and balance goes, placement is completely randomized. Also, all resources are now strategic and come in quantity. For normal resources this is 1 or 2. For classically strategic resources such as Iron/Copper/etc, they come in their standard 3-6 quantities.
2 You now have more control over resource abundance! Replaced the old advanced setup resource options with: Low, Standard, High, Very High, and Legendary. If you choose low, you will see very few resources. If you choose Legendary, it will be wall to wall(Warning: graphics hog).
3 13 New resources: Crab, Rice, Corn, Soybean, Cocoa, Tea, Copper, Alligator, Poppy, Tobacco, Coffee, Titanium, and Rare Earths.
4 New Trade Monopoly System! With the addition of 17 technologies(Economic Page) and 200 buildings(5 per resource), resources will be more important than ever!
-Each resource now has a line of buildings: Small, Medium, Large, Huge, and Monopoly.
-Each building requires the smaller version that came before it in the city.
-Each building requires 1 of it's resource, and provides 1-2 bonuses to it's city of origin(10% to a Yield or 1 happiness and 5%).
-Each Building provides a 10% increase in trade income. Each Monopoly provides 20%.
-Monopoly buildings require 2 Huge buildings somewhere in the empire, and provide global bonuses(20% to a Global Yield, or 10% and +2 Happiness per city).
5 Removed several beelines from the Social Page.
6 Generally reduced Happiness from buildings.
As of February 24
7 Updated Resource Generator Mod with Deep Blue's save load fix. Resources should no longer generate every time you load.
7 Fixed the Prereq lopp, which caused crashes around renaissance, as well as the 10 minute map creation time. Thanks to those who helped narrow it down.
8 Fixed some issues with the Pearl and Crab buildings.
As of February 27
9 Updated the mod to be compatible with the latest patch.
10 Due to recent luxury resource removal, Unhappiness from population has been returned to 1 per pop(from 1.25).
11 Added flavors to the new monopoly buildings. Please keep an eye out for clues as to the AI's use of these buildings.
12 Golden Ages no longer provide tile yield changes. They now provides a 10% bonus to Science, Food, Production, and Gold. Let me know how this feels when you get them.
13 Changed Aristocracy's bonus to +1 Culture per Monument, and +3 Culture per Castle.
14 Various tweaks and bug fixes.
As of March 2
15 Numerous text/yield/etc fixes that were leftover from the latest patch changes.
16 Changed Aristocracy/Imperial Cult to Happiness bonuses due to the +Culture to building schema not working.
17 Numerous tweaks made to the AI resource valuation. I found that luxuries had a plot valuation of 50000, while strategics only had like 20. Other things were changed as well, but this is probably the big one. Let me know if you see a difference.
18 Changed the resource graphics for rice/corn/soybean to wheat. Changed alligator to deer. This was done so that the improvement graphics match the resource graphic. As soon as we can gain the ability to add unique improvement/resource graphics, this will be changed to something more suitable.
19 Fixed various improved resource yield valuations.
20 Thank Feuteupool for the newest tech/building icons!
As of March 6
21 Minor tweaks and bug fixes.
22 Increased happiness in some early ancient buildings.
23 Changed the AI's valuation of gold in diplomacy. The idea is for a 10x increase in gold costs in diplomacy. Let me know if you see this.
24 Updated Inca's Terrace farm to be compatible with the mod.
25 Increased Bazaar's Gold bonus compared to the Market.
As of March 8
26 Minor tweaks and Bug Fixes
27 Separated the DLC tech related fixes into a separate mod file. Download and install the file only if you have downloaded the Inca and Polynesian DLC's(or your game will break). Enable the DLC fix mod AFTER you enable the CtP Project.
28 Fixed some other DLC unit and building costs.
As of March 9


Known Issues
1 Natural wonder popup says +1 happiness but you get +2.
2 You can trade strategic resources with an AI/city state, build resource buildings, loose the resource(making you negative that resource), and then still produce units using your resource requiring buildings. I don't think the AI knows how to exploit this, so it isn't a huge deal(but one I intend to fix when I can). Up to you whether you want to exploit it.
3 Various vanilla techs as well as new techs have incorrect or outdated help text strings. This will be polished up once buildings, units, and techs are no longer added to the mod.
4 Currently working on broad based balance issues, particularly Gold.

10 New Governments, 50 new sub-policies.

2 New Complete Eras, Digital Era and NanoTech Era. 1 New Incomplete Diamond Era.

Total of 105+ new techs in this mod.

New Units, Buildings, and changes:

A total of 36 new units.

A total of 130+ new buildings.



Project Needs:
Graphics for wonders, units, and improvements.
Tech audio.


To Come


Short term:

Balancing.
Bug smashing.
Completion of the tech tree.
Addition of new map resources.
Addition of buildable resources.


Mid term:

Religios Social Policy Pages
Civilization specific tech trees.
New improvements once we have unique graphics for them.

Long Term:

Sea cities, mining, etc.
Space cities.
Trade monopoly system.
Subversive Units.


Proposed Government and Religious Policies
This is a work in progress and will be implemented once the multiple social policy page mod by FiresForever is complete. How this will work is that you can be 1 government and 1 religion at a time. The ideologies and systems will be more open, but some choices will lock out others. All basic religions will be available at turn 1. Everything else will unlock through the eras(or techs if possible).

As this is a work in progress, suggestions are of course appreciated.

--------------Growth-----Production---Commerce----Research----Economy---Military-----Loyalty-------Martial Law
Monarchy----Slow----------Low---------Medium--------Low---------Low--------High------Indifferent-----Moderate
Theocracy---Average-------Low----------High-----------Low-------Medium-----Medium---Loyal----------Relaxed
Republic-----Average------Medium-------Low---------Medium-------High-------Medium--Indifferent-----Relaxed
Democracy---Fast----------Low----------Medium-------High--------Medium-----Low-------Loyal-----------None
Fascism------Slow---------High-----------Low-----------Low---------Low--------V. High---Fanatical-------Strict
Communism-Average----V. High---------High----------Low----------Low--------V. High---Passionate---Moderate
Corporate----Fast----------High--------V. High----------High---------Rich--------Medium---Loyal----------None
Technocracy-Average-----High----------V. High-------V. High------Medium-----High-------Loyal--------Relaxed
Ecotopia-------V. Fast----Medium--------High----------High---------High--------Medium---Passionate----None
V. Democracy-Fast--------High----------V. High-------V. High-------Rich---------Low-------Loyal----------None

Key:

1 Growth- Slow= +0, Average= +10 Food to farms/boats, Fast= +30, Very Fast= +60
2 Production- Low= +0, Medium= +10 Production to Specialists/mines/mills/manufactories, High= +30, Very High= +60.
3 Commerce- Low= +0, Medium= +10 Gold to Specialists/posts/plantations/pastures/quarries, High= +30, Very High= +60.
4 Research- Low= +0, Medium= +15% Research, High= +30%, Very High= +60%
5 Economy- Low= +0, Medium= +15% Trade Gold, High= +30%, V. High= +60%
6 Military- Low= +0, Medium= +15% Great General / -15% Unit Maintenance, High= +30% / -30%, Very High= +60% / -60%
7 Loyalty- Indifferent= -0, Loyal= -10% Unhappiness from Population, Passionate= -20%, Fanatical= -40%
8 Martial Law- None= +0, Relaxed= +1 Happiness from Garrison, Moderate= +3, Strict= +5.

The general feel of this chart is almost the same as CtP. The values, due to different mechanics are different. They are also subject to broad changes after some good testing.

Also, this chart may be added to at some point, if some worthwhile mechanics present themselves. Perhaps military, building, and wonder construction bonuses. Definitely a culture column at some point.

Also, each of these governments is going to have the standard 5 policies in the branch. The policies may enhance certain aspects the government is already good at, enhance weaknesses of the government, or it may add new aspects that the core government has not addressed.

As you can see, things are going to change quite a bit once this is implemented, with more balancing focusing around expected government changing periods. A separate tech page for governments will be created and you will have to learn the government tech before you can adopt the government. The order in the chart is the same as they will be researched.

Governments
(Default Despotism)
1 Monarchy - Tribal Kingship, Dynasty, Absolute Monarchy, Divine Right, Crown Loyalty
2 Theocracy - Religious Law, Imperial Cult, Clergy, State Church, Papism
3 Republic - Social Contract, Civic Virtue, Rule of Law, Senate, Mixed Government
4 Democracy - Consensus, Equality, Direct Vote, Representation, Separation of Powers
5 Fascism - Action, Discipline, Hierarchy, Spirit, Will
6 Communism - Proletariat, Nationalization, State Socialism, Comintern, Utopian Socialism
7 Corporate - Executive Board, Shareholder View, Corporate Charter, Corporate Bylaws, Management Class
8 Technocracy - Information Society, Social Engineering, Post Scarcity, Modes of Action, Energy Accounting
9 Ecotopia - Gaia Hypothesis, EcoFanaticism, Sustainability, Precautionary Principle, Homo Illuminatus
10 Virtual Democracy - Open Source Governance, Instant Referendum, Pure Democracy, Executive Recall, Radical Transparency

Gov Ideologies
1 Socialism
2 Capitalism
3 Liberalism
4 Conservatism
5 Environmentalism
6 Nationalism
7 Populism
8 Pacifism
9 Imperialism
10 Anarchism


Gov Systems
1 Federalism
2 Autocracy
3 Aristocracy
4 Feudalism
5 Pluralism
6 Parliamentary
7 Constitutional
8 Plutocracy
9 Totalitarianism
10 Electoral


Religions
1 Buddhism
2 Hinduism
3 Judaism
4 Zoroastrianism
5 Confucianism
6 Christianity
7 Islam
8 Taoism
9 State Divinity
10 No State Religion


Religious Ideologies
1 Fundamentalism
2 Secularism
3 Atheism
4 Piety
5 Inquisition
6 Tolerance
7 Anti-Religion
8 Evangelical
9 Shamanism
10 Occult


(List CtP features moved 2 posts down)

If anyone would like to help with any of these features, especially in the art/graphics department, I think we can make something great. Where possible, I will probably try to compile as much quality work as I can from other sources.

Decimatus
Oct 24, 2010, 07:36 AM
Archived V9 Changes:

1 Yield System transformed. A yield of +1 is now +5, +2 is +10, and so on. Policies and civ traits have not been changed.
2 Building % yield(gold/production/food/science) system also transformed. To make way for governments, all % yield modifiers have been changed to per pop or flat rate modifiers. Once governments have been implemented, % modifiers may or may not return in some form.
3 Work boats can now improve non-resource coast and ocean tiles. No graphics yet, so you have to mouse over for the time being.
4 Multiple Tech Page Mod implemented. Techs are now spread across 13 categories of tech trees, allowing for vast future improvements to the tech tree. Better and more realistic paths, more dead-end techs, and loads more. Many of the pages may feel rather empty right now, but I will be adding more techs between now and V9's publication to the modhub.
As of December 28
5 Updated GlobalDefines with Unit Maintenance, Gold, and Settler updates to bring it more in line with recent changes.
6 Increased Growth exponent and multiplier. Should take slightly more to grow for each additional population.
As of December 29
7 Terrain/feature yield fixes.
8 Growth exponent increased.
9 Balance tweaks.
10 Government system partly implemented. You may only have 1 government activated at a time. Sub Policies currently do not have bonuses attributed. See chart below for further details.
11 Anarchy length is now 4 turns.
12 Initial tweaks made to account for governments.
13 Tech pages streamlined to 5 from 13 categories. Planning and choosing tech progression should be much better, while allowing for future tech expansion.
As of January 2
14 Some tweaks and balance adjustments to certain buildings.
15 Removed Docks, due to the new fishing boats.
16 Due to a bug that causes high cost, end level techs to be researched in 1 turn, science costs and generation has been greatly reduced. Science per pop is now 1 science per 2 citizens. Science from buildings has been roughly returned to pre-yield change levels. Science costs have been divided by about 9. More adjustments may be needed in the future if people are still experiencing the 1 turn tech bug on the end level techs at marathon speed.
As of January 6
17 Fixed Science per pop. It didn't register a .5 value, so 1 per pop is the minimum.
18 Lowered upgrade costs substantially.
19 Somewhat lowered unit maintenance.
20 Modified lighthouse, harbor, and seaports. Coastal cities should be slightly less powerful.
21 Lowered cost of civil engineer.
22 Fixed some inaccurate help text strings.
23 Modified the production cost of certain renaissance units to smooth out the cost curve between units.
As of January 7
23 Government Sub-Policies Implemented.
As of January 8
24 Fixed DLC units. They now reflect correct costs.
25 Slightly increased unit costs.
26 Smoothed out and slightly lowered building cost curve.
27 Fixed Great Scientist yield.
28 Lowered GP points per specialist from 2 to 1. This should give more incentive for some of the peaceful governments as well as slow down GP rates in general.
29 Fixed Plot Gold costs to reflect new yield system.
30 Decreased minimum Barb Camp distance from 7 spaces to 5.
31 Increased max xp from barbarians to 200.
32 Increased frequency and length of rivers on the world map.
As of January 8
33 Fixed issue where republic still reveals barb camps.
34 Fixed medieval-renaissance wonders that were grossly overpriced. Costs cut roughly in half.
35 Set barb xp cap to 2k, effectively removing it.
36 Fixed Tribal Kingship, should give 50% more xp not 150%.
37 Handicapped the AI 10% to growth on all difficulty levels. Now 90% on Prince, dropping 10% a level to 50% at diety.
As of January 9
38 Broad balance changes to medieval-modern buildings. Increased gold, production, and science outputs.
39 Slightly lowered building maintenance.
As of January 9
40 Hopefully fixed ~Renaissance CtD Wall. If it isn't fixed with this version, I at least know it is somewhere in the global defines xml.
41 New Unit Flags for Civil Engineer, Missile Squad, Combat Controller, Micro UAV Team, Cybernetic Marauder, and Unmanned Aircraft. Thank knatte_Anka!
42 Made changes to tech trees, migrating military units to the military tech page. Added 1 tech(Siege Engines for Trebuchets), and created Archimedes Lab wonder for Physics. More tech tree optimizing in the future.
As of January 14
43 More tech tree optimization
44 New Military Techs. Shipbuilding, Rudder, Naval Armor, Shells, Tracked Vehicles, Torpedoes, Submersibles, and Big Guns Doctrine.
45 New Units. Cog and Galleon.
46 Added Machine Gunner Unit Flag.
As of January 14
47 Implemented 30mb+ of icon art courtesy of Feuteupool. Thank him if you see him!
48 New Military Techs. Shoulder Launched Weapons, Infantry Fighting Vehicles, Cruise Missiles, Combined Arms Doctrine.
As of January 15
49 Initial completion of Military Tech Page Optimization. All military units are(should be) found on the techs within the Military Tech Page.
50 New Military Techs. Composite Armor, Space Weaponization, and Free Space Saturation.
As of January 15
51 Updated the multiple tech pages mod. It has several improvements, one of which seems to be a smoother, sleeker interface experience. I also hope this smoother experience results in less button related CtD's, so let me know how it goes. Also, the new update adds "Required" techs in each help text, so you can get a quick tooltip detailing not only what it leads to, but also where it came from.
52 Implemented latest ICONS and Flags from Feuteupool. Everyone thank him. :)
53 Tweaked a few building/unit values here and there, and fixed a text string.
As of January 16
54 Fixed various small bugs.
55 Updated City State Gold Gifts and Food rewards to match the new yield system. Militant CS's also give units more often. Let me know if you see any issues or if influence degrades too quickly..
56 Changed the AI's diplomatic perception of the weight of gold gifts to match the yield system.
57 Largely modified the building yield system. Many of the yield per pop modifiers didn't really feel right, so while many still have these modifiers, most were changed to % modifiers, flat rate yields, or resource improving.
58 Changed the core government yields system. Dropped the % mods for food/prod/gold, and increased the base yield increases for improvements. Also, the gold and production yields now apply to the specialists.
59 Specialist slots greatly reduced, especially in the early eras.
60 3 New Techs; Fermentation(ECO), Sports(SOC), Economy of Scale(ECO)
61 3 New Buildings; Brewery, Winery, and Olympics.
62 Wine no longer grows on vines. Grapes do.
63 Added Wonder Splash Images for Dinosaur Park and Virtual Securities Exchange. Thank DrBalthar.
64 Removed(finally) the agriculture audio from all the new techs.
As of January 19
65 Fixed Barb Camp gold. Should now be in the range of 150-300 gold per camp.
66 Minor Fixes related to the last update.
As of January 20
67 Fix to the CTD on clicking a category
Fix to delay between selecting categories
New Tech Tree selection page layout changed
68 Expanded Ancient, Classical, and Medieval eras out to be 4 techs wide. This increases the tree width by 5 techs, allowing for much needed expansion in the early eras. Techs to fill those spaces will follow in the coming weeks.
69 More icons courtesy of Feuteupool. :)
As of January 20
70 8 New Techs: Ceremonial Burial, Bureaucracy, Enlightenment, Trading, Division of Labor, Trade Fairs, Agricultural Revolution, and Bonds.
71 6 New Buildings: Burial Mound(Burial Tomb now replaces), National Academy, Regional Fair, Mill, Town Hall, and Bond Market.
72 Massive science changes. Due to instabilities with techs that cost 200k+ beakers, combined with the addition of 5 tech widths to the tree(increasing end cost 1k%), I had to make major adjustments to the tech costs and generation. Most noticeably, you will see that you are making 1 Sci per pop starting out, but the techs are 10-20 beakers each. My hope is that the tech pace stays roughly the same or better than it was before. Given the changes though, not guaranteed. Let me know of any issues you run into or balance suggestions you have.
As of January 21
73 Tech loops fixed. There were actually 2, both related to Chiv/DoL.
74 Updated with FiresForever's patch. I think this helped greatly with the game load time, though it is still slightly slow. Let me know how it treats you.
75 Added Feuteupool's new art.
76 Minor fixes(Whale Food, Trireme to Cog Update, and put a block in front a of an early beeline).
As of January 22
77 Various minor bug fixes that have been mentioned in the past week or so.
78 Various small balance changes and tech tree optimizations.
79 Update to Tech Pages mod by FiresForever focusing on performance and tech pipe fixes.
As of January 24
80 7 New Techs: Mega Engineering, Evangelism, Televangelism, Consumerism, Conservationism, Extreme Sports, Social Networks,
81 8 New Buildings: Interstate Highway System, Missionary Church, Megachurch, Crystal Cathedral, Shopping Mall, National Park Service, X Games, Facebook,
82 New Tile Yield Graphic fix. Each little Food/Gold/Hammer icon now represents 5 units. The big icon represents 25 units, instead of 5. Also, values between 30 and 55 will be displayed by number, and 60+ displayed using the star icon. At a later date, when the system can handle the art, I hope to get the number system displaying up to 95. Thank Sneaks for the contribution.
As of January 27
83 Fishing Boats graphic now shows in non-resource tiles. Thank Sneaks! In addition, Fishing Boat cost fixed.
As of January 28
84 Fishing Boats should now really show in non-resource tiles.
85 Various minor fixes and balance changes.
86 Multiple Social Pages are here! :) 10 new Government Ideologies implemented. Known Issue: Branches are out of order, and you may or may not see policies policies appearing under the wrong branch. Expected to be fixed in the next day or so. Until then, test away!
87 Policy culture cost lowered. It won't be immediately apparent, but over time you should find yourself with more policies than usual(pre-governments) Let me know if it is enough, too much, or not enough.
As of January 30
88 Optimizations to the recent social policy additions. Mainly; the branches are now in order, and most broken pipes have been fixed. Still some issues here and there which will be resolved soon.
As of January 31
89 Government Systems implemented! 55 new policies in total.
90 Various fixes made to policies.
91 Various balance improvements made to policies.
92 AI strengthened. Looking for more AI buildings, leading to more AI culture.
As of February 2
93 Gov Systems era availability fixed.
94 Flavors added to the policy branches. Offense, Gold, Production, Growth, and Happiness. Monarchy and Fascism are Offense, Theocracy and Corporate are Gold, Communism and Technocracy are Production, Republic and Ecotopia are Growth, and Democracy and Virtual Democracy are Happiness. These flavor pairings are not as much about the name of the flavor, as they are about tying the AI to specific policy paths. The Gov Systems and Gov Ideologies were similarly flavored, with an emphasis on compatibility. My intent is to keep the AI out of needless anarchies and to keep them focused on a single line of policies throughout the eras. This will be hard to gauge, but any info you can provide regarding AI and the number of policies they gain will be helpful.
95 Leader flavors modified to suit the new policy flavors. Ghandi should be going for Democracy, Ghenghis Khan Communism, Bismark Fascism, etc.
96 When an AI has recently gained a Government, the diplomacy text may tell you what government that is. For instance, they will be introduced as "Fascist Bismark the Wise of Germany" if Bismark recently took Fascism. This actually seemed to be a bug when it first appeared, but I am trying to make the most of it, and having the diplomacy introduction tell you what government they are in should both give the player a good bit of info for gameplay purposes, as well as give you info that you can pass on to me regarding what kinds of governments the AI are taking, which should tell me if my flavors are working. One problem is that if the AI picks a policy in gov systems or ideologies, it won't show the Government they are in. Hopefully this can be expanded upon more in the future.
97 Happiness modified. Population now generates 1.25 unhappiness per population instead of 1, and cities now produce 4 unhappiness each instead of 2. This may make things tougher starting out, but the slowdown in expansion is likely a good thing, and more importantly, it will make certain policy choices more worthwhile.
98 A few minor bug fixes.
As of February 3
99 Fixed some 1 way policy disables. (If 1 policy disables another, it should work both ways)
100 Cog and Galleon now show icons in game.
101 Various other minor fixes.
As of February 5
102 Fixed some incorrect unit icons and text strings.
103 Applied FiresForever's latest updates to the pages mods(slight art change on the policy buttons for one)
104 Fixed Plantation Bug(Thanks TanisX)
105 Fixed Ranch
106 Lowered Gold Across the board starting mainly around medieval and onward. This is just an initial step in the gold balancing direction.
107 Policies that lower unhappiness per pop have been generally lowered and balanced.
108 General tweaks here and there to various buildings and policies.






This is a list of CtP features that made it stand out from previous civilization games. These are the features that I would like to bring to Civ 5. At least in Spirit. Some are on the indefinite wait list because they are so difficult to implement, but as soon as they are possible will make it on the list above.

1. Stack limits of 10 with stacked combat. DLL Required. Lua/C++ Programmer needed.

2. Sea and Space cities/improvements. Work is being put into some of the space city concepts. Sea cities and new sea improvements will take some additional work.DLL Required. Will need artists and Lua/C++ programmer.

3. Trade Monopolies. The biggest snag in this department as of right now, is the inability to require a building to use 2, 3, or 4 of the same resource found within city limits. How this would work, would be that if you have 3 worked Spices in city limits, then you can build a building that produces substantially more gold than the building that requires 2 Spices. The limit would be 4 Spices in city limits.

The second part of this system is that you get to use up to 4 more Spices found within your empire and send them to the city with the most spices in the city limits. The city that can build a building using up to 8 Spices(up to 4 in city limits, and up to 4 others found throughout the empire), would be a major economic hub of your empire. Now obviously, this method of implementing Trade Monopolies could produce quite a lot of buildings, so it would likely be streamlined down to 4. 1 Building uses 1 local and 1 national resource, 1 uses 2 and 2, 3 and 3, and 4 and 4.

Until then, it is possible that I could create a system that just requires 1 of a local resource and then up to 5 total could be uses in the monopoly buildings. So 1 local plus up to 4 national. 4 buildings total. They would have names such as Alluminum Mill, Alluminum Hub, Alluminum Sector, and Alluminum Capital. It would be a chain of buildings, each requiring the last, and each requiring 1 additional resource.

I would also like for there to be pillageable trade route lines snaking across the map. This could be very tough, even if we had DLL access and a capable C++ Programmer. DLL Required. Need lua and C++ programmer eventually.

4. Ultra Huge Maps. Huge maps in Civ 5 are decent. Gigantic would be better. However, a huge map on Civ 5 taxes even the best of CPU's by late game, so this simply may not be feasible.

5. 32 Civilizations. Halfway there. Given the bonuses that Civilizations get, and the changes to the yield system I have made, I am going to have to do a significant amount of work integrating and updating various Vanilla and User added Civs.

6. Mountain Mining. Need the ability to have workers move on mountains and build mines. I need the cities to be able to draw yields from the mined mountains(currently not doable). And of course we need the mined mountain to be graphically represented.DLL Required. Need Terrain Artist, and a Lua/C++ Programmer.

7. Public works tile improvement system. We don't need the CtP system per se, but there are quite a lot of improvements that need to come over. Airfields, listening posts, radar towers, scaled farms/mines/trading posts, sonar buoys, undersea tunnels, undersea mines, maglev, etc, etc. DLL Required. Need Artists and lua/C++ Programmer.

8. Subversive Units. First, we need the ability to make units invisible, similar to the submarines. Should not be a huge problem. Second, we need our subversives to have special abilities. Siphon production, siphon gold, poison water supplies, destroy buildings, spread plagues, create corporate franchises, create religious footholds, etc. DLL Required. Need Artists and lua/C++ Programmer.

9. Vast 100+ city empires. This is partly tied up with #4 and the fact that larger and larger maps are progressively more unstable. Currently empires of 30-40 seem to be the average large empire, with perhaps an upper limit of 60 cities if you spread cities 3-4 tiles apart instead of 5-6.

10. Uniformity/Diversity slider. Basically this is a slider in the advanced setup menu that would allow you to tweak terrain randomness as desired. Slider on the diversity side of the scale would basically make a map where desert is next to jungle is next to grassland is next to swamp. Slider on the uniform side of the scale would create a map where vast open plains, swamps, mountain ranges, etc would all be found. You might find yourself starting in a swamp that stretches for days. Or maybe in an endless jungle. Or jammed up against a mountain range the size of a duel map.

The slider lets you choose the level of diversity or uniformity, and would allow all kinds of map conditions. Personally, I always played max uniformity as that always seemed to produce enjoyable maps as opposed to jumbled masses of randomized terrain types. If I had to rate Civ 5's map diversity, I would say it would be a 4-5, with 1 being most diverse and 10 being most uniform.Map scripter required.

11. Choice of End Era. While this is technically possible now, it requires a separate mod to be enabled in addition to the CtP Project. What I would like to see is an Advanced Setup option where you can simply select the End Era just as you select the Start Era. Default End Era would be Diamond, with the choice of any era inbetween. Lua/UI Programmer required.

12. The ability to remove any unit/building/wonder from the game in the create game screen. Essentially, this would be an Advanced Setup option that would allow you to turn off any unit or building that you do not want in the game. Nukes for instance. Or Settlers was always a fun one in CtP, but then you could start CtP with 9 settlers if you wanted. I believe this will be similar, yet significantly more difficult than adding the Choice of End Era to the Advanced Setup.Lua/UI Programmer required.

13. Empire wide food, production, and gold sliders. In CtP this was basically setting the workday of your citizens. 6 hours, 8, 10, or 12 hours a day? Or setting how much food they get to eat. Do they eat 5 food a turn, 10, 15, 20? Or setting how much they get paid for their work. 5 gold, 10 gold, 15, 20? If you work your citizens 12 hours a day, they are not going to be happy but you get lots of production out of them. And you can make up for the long hours by feeding(lower city growth rates) or paying them more. DLL might be required. Lua/UI Programmer needed.

15. Awesome city management system. We need the ability to set production on all of our cities at the same time. Also the ability to save Queue's and load them in other cities. I have seen some mods that address this area somewhat, but we need it to go much further. Lua/UI Programmer needed.



As you can see, some of these things are already good to go in Civ 5/Mods. Some require the DLL. Some of these things are just extremely difficult to mod in. Some take more work creating graphics than anything else. Altogether, it is a lot of work.


If anyone would like to help with any of these features, especially in the lua/C++art/graphics departments, I think we can make something great. Where possible, I will probably try to compile as much quality work as I can from other sources.

rikkia
Oct 24, 2010, 01:32 PM
Been playing with this a bit and love it so far.

Social Policies are outdated but possibly not in your immediate focus of things to do.
City States seem to be building wonders, not sure if its just your additions or all wonders.

As I play longer I'll let you know if i find anymore oddities and give feedback on possible ideas for balance.

Doubleplusgood3
Oct 24, 2010, 03:10 PM
Finally! Hooray .

Decimatus
Oct 24, 2010, 03:13 PM
Been playing with this a bit and love it so far.

Social Policies are outdated but possibly not in your immediate focus of things to do.
City States seem to be building wonders, not sure if its just your additions or all wonders.

As I play longer I'll let you know if i find anymore oddities and give feedback on possible ideas for balance.

Yeah I have been getting reports of this as well.

I don't necessarily mind it, but find it odd. There could be some hardcoded thngs about the Civ 5 wonders that modded wonders don't get to join in on.

Or, I hear the city states have their own tech trees? It could be that they get all my added techs somehow.

Finally! Hooray .

Glad you like it. :)

Tssha
Oct 24, 2010, 07:43 PM
Minor Civs list every world wonder as unbuildable in the <Civilizations_BuildingOverrides> element in the Civ5Civilizations.xml file. Likely any new wonders would be unlisted in that list.

Their tag is CIVILIZATION_MINOR . You'll likely have to write exclusion clauses into an xml file and load it to prevent minor civs from building the new world wonders.

apotheoser
Oct 24, 2010, 08:38 PM
To me, the way CtP organized the early/mid game around slaver civilizations versus abolitionist civilizations was awesome. It'd be great if you could get that whole thing in there. Should be possible with scripting.

Decimatus
Oct 25, 2010, 04:39 AM
Minor Civs list every world wonder as unbuildable in the <Civilizations_BuildingOverrides> element in the Civ5Civilizations.xml file. Likely any new wonders would be unlisted in that list.

Their tag is CIVILIZATION_MINOR . You'll likely have to write exclusion clauses into an xml file and load it to prevent minor civs from building the new world wonders.

Ah, didn't know that. Thanks for the info. :)

I still don't mind city states building wonders, since it gives a good reason to kill one if he has a wonder you want. The AI kind of kills city states religiously, which is kind of ridiculous, but the player has all the incentives to keep them alive. Perhaps if I went in and unlocked all the rest of the wonders for city states, it would give another reason to fight over them. What do you guys think?


To me, the way CtP organized the early/mid game around slaver civilizations versus abolitionist civilizations was awesome. It'd be great if you could get that whole thing in there. Should be possible with scripting.

It is hard to say how I will be able to organize it at this point, but subversives are definitely on my list, with Slavers being near the top. I think the slavers are feasible, but it is going to take some fancy lua work to combine a few game mechanics from other areas.

After I finish the future techs, buildings, units, and add alternate tech pages, governments, and religions, I will take a shot at the subversive system. Kind of long term right now, but it is on the radar. :)

JSnider
Oct 25, 2010, 10:25 AM
Concur with Minors blding wonders ... never understood why they couldn't.

strategyonly
Oct 26, 2010, 10:52 AM
This is great stuff, but what if you want to add era's like, The Stone Age and in-between Modern and Future have TransHuman? How would you do this, If its to long or you know how to, just PM me, i tried like four hours to no avail.

Buddha2723
Oct 26, 2010, 11:48 AM
Have you played Master of Orion 2? Many techs from that game could be adapted into nano and other future eras. Also, taking workers with military units is a rough approximation of slavery. If pre-democracy nations could trade workers for gold or units it might be able to simulate the triangle trade.

Decimatus
Oct 26, 2010, 07:15 PM
This is great stuff, but what if you want to add era's like, The Stone Age and in-between Modern and Future have TransHuman? How would you do this, If its to long or you know how to, just PM me, i tried like four hours to no avail.

I spent a few hours trying to figure out eras as well.

What I finally ended up doing, because it was the only thing that worked, was that I had to rename the future era the Digital Era, and then I added the NanoTech era after the Digital era.

There is something about the eras that doesn't want to move. Almost as if they are pinned in place.

Basically just leave all the FUTURE_ERA tags alone, but change the Text for the future era to the era of your choice.

Then, later on you can even add the future era back at the end of your tree(with a different tag of course).

If you want to add in eras between the earlier times, I am pretty sure you are going to have to rename all your eras to bump one in.

It would be real annoying in your XMLs but whoever plays it won't notice a thing.

Have you played Master of Orion 2? Many techs from that game could be adapted into nano and other future eras. Also, taking workers with military units is a rough approximation of slavery. If pre-democracy nations could trade workers for gold or units it might be able to simulate the triangle trade.

I played 3, and plenty of other 4X space games anyway. Many of the techs from those games don't quite fit Civ, even for instance my NanoTech era. I even looked at Alpha Centauri, and found that many of those techs are beyond even what I am going for.


In CtP, the techs go out to the point where you have low orbital cities and some orbital warfare.

Most techs in those types of games involve things that are interstellar in scale, techs that we may not have for a thousand years.

As future as CtP is, it really doesn't go more than 100-200 years into the future which I think works pretty well for the game.

I would compare the end situation to that of Ghost in the Shell. By the end of Nanotech era of course we will be beyond that, but the idea of how it all fits together is rather similar to that anime.

Buddha2723
Oct 26, 2010, 07:32 PM
I'll post some of the MOO2 tree that I feel will translate and suggest buildings, troops, and effects for each tech. You can decide how many research points, and which eras to place them;

power tree- nuclear fusion -> advanced fusion -> cold fusion
rocketry tree- ballistics -> anti missile rockets
laser tree- laser -> combat lasers -> laser rifles -> laser pistols
economy tree- globalization -> Automated Factories -> robotic workers
robotics tree- robotics -> advanced robotics -> nano robotics
mining tree- dynamite -> advanced mining -> tectonic engineering
education tree- computers -> artificial intelligence -> intech-grated education
particle tree- particle physics -> energy fields -> anti-gravity field
media tree- mass media -> mega plasma screens -> virtual reality

Tech effects:
advanced fusion- new building:Fusion plant(+50% nuclear plant cost and maint, +30% to production)
cold fusion- new unit; Fusion infantry(80 Str, 2 moves, + 80% cost of mech inf. )
anti missile rockets- new promotion for air units/mobile sam (+50% vs missiles used by jet fighters and mobile sam)
combat lasers- unlocks your strategic laser unit
laser rifles- unlocks laser infantry(60 Str, 2 moves, equal cost of mech inf.)
laser pistols- +15 happiness(empire, not per city)
Automated Factories- new building: Missile factory(generates a guided missile every x turns, or a hypersonic every x*2 turns)
robotic workers- new building: Robotics Inc.(+3 food, 5 maint{frees citizens from menial labor, giving larger specialist force, or more worked tiles})
advanced robotics- new unit: armored troops(100 str, 3 moves, same penalties as armored units{weak attack on city/defense}, +40% cost of modern armor)
nano robotics- new promotion: nano repair(available to naval units with supply{heals 2 damage in unfriendly territory} changing bonus to 4 points/turn)
advanced mining- new effect:allows workers to move like choppers, new mine improvement available on mountain terrain
tectonic engineering- new buildings: Molten core garbage dump(no prerequisite building, +5 happiness, 8 maint); Subterranean farms(+6 food, 8 maint)
artificial intelligence- new effect: +1 science per citizen(a virtual tutor for every child); new building: hydroponic farm(+4 food, 6 maint, triple cost of granary)
intech-grated education- new building:Tech University(+1 production from rough terrain, +1 food from flat terrain, +1 gold per specialist, double the cost of research lab, 7 maint)
energy fields- new building:Deflector shields(+20 defense, 10 maint, double cost of the military base)
anti-gravity field- New units:Jump Troops(90 Str, 5 moves, same ability as paratroopers)
mega plasma screens- new building: Super Imax(requires theatre, +6 happiness, 6 maint)
virtual reality- New building: VR Center(+7 happiness, 9 maint, +30 exp for all unit types)

In cases where I reference another building's cost,(i.e. 3 times cost of granary) I believe that building should be the prerequisite.

Buddha2723
Oct 26, 2010, 07:34 PM
And btw, MOO2 still to this day kicks MOO 3's )*^%( out of the water. Give it a try someday, all these techs are straight from it.

Decimatus
Oct 26, 2010, 08:58 PM
Some good ideas, many of which I already have semi-planned.

I definitely can't pull full trees out of those games and implant them in, but I can take ideas from them and use a tech here or there.

Things like going so far as to differentiate between a laser rifle and a laser pistol tech is way too detailed, and would clutter things up real quick.

I am already putting in new techs to expand out the fusion line a bit more. :)

Robotics will reappear here and there in the tree as certain other advances become apparent. For instance Exoskeletons, and later nanites and whatnot.

Advanced mining is a little generic. There are things like Advanced flight, but that at least gives Helicopters and Jet engines. I would probably increase mining through some other tech such as exoskeletons and others.

Much of my digital age is about computers really. Optical and quantum computers are both invented in that age, and a few other computer age techs as a result.

For anti-gravity fields, I won't go quite that far. However, I do have the unified field theory tech which is going to lead to some force fields and limited hovering ability later in the nanotech era.

Also going to add virtual reality late in the digital, or early in the nanotech era.

Lots more to come in the last 2 eras. :)

strategyonly
Oct 26, 2010, 09:44 PM
Some good ideas, many of which I already have semi-planned.

I definitely can't pull full trees out of those games and implant them in, but I can take ideas from them and use a tech here or there.
Also going to add virtual reality late in the digital, or early in the nanotech era.

Lots more to come in the last 2 eras. :)


I believe some of the era's stuff are in the core dll also.

Take a look at "my" Prehistoric mod(see sig) for techs, it has way over 290 techs and actually if pretty good.;)

Decimatus
Oct 27, 2010, 01:11 AM
Yeah I am sure it is. At least there are workarounds. :)

I doubt I will go into prehistory unless I complete 90-100% of the things on my list and then find myself bored enough to throw it in. :)

290 techs though? All prior to agriculture? That sounds a little insane. Does each tech have a unit or building in it?

I am considering pumping the ancient and classical eras out to be 3 techs wide though. That is likely after I finish the future eras and some other stuff though.

strategyonly
Oct 27, 2010, 03:43 AM
Yeah I am sure it is. At least there are workarounds. :)

I doubt I will go into prehistory unless I complete 90-100% of the things on my list and then find myself bored enough to throw it in. :)

290 techs though? All prior to agriculture? That sounds a little insane. Does each tech have a unit or building in it?

I am considering pumping the ancient and classical eras out to be 3 techs wide though. That is likely after I finish the future eras and some other stuff though.

No, all techs , not prior to agriculture, all techs, included from Stone Age to Future, come to think of it i believe there is over 300 TOTAL.

Still haven't figure out how to add, dang.:(

Decimatus
Oct 27, 2010, 05:41 AM
No, all techs , not prior to agriculture, all techs, included from Stone Age to Future, come to think of it i believe there is over 300 TOTAL.

Still haven't figure out how to add, dang.:(

Ah. :) I have added 60 techs, plus whatever the normal game has.



V4 is live. See the OP for patch notes. Enjoy! :)

Daft73
Oct 27, 2010, 10:22 AM
This is quite the project. I am curious to see what develops with the adding /changing of the 'Tech Tree eras'. :yeah:

Good luck with the project!

chicadee987
Oct 27, 2010, 11:14 AM
Now as we have city states, I think this one could be made to work:

Food trade - Nations have ´always´ sold excess food to gain wealth.. Selling excess production has been part of civ series for long(producing science or wealth) but Ive kinda always wanted to see food trading as part of the game.

I know that selling food is currently presented by specialists which is only a way to help your own nation. In future, I would like to see another option for helping your allies nor exploiting the weaker nations. Diplomacy is quite dull atm because of removed tech trading. Discuss!

Oh, and thanks for your work so far.. Just DLd the mod and I will be trying it soon!

strategyonly
Oct 27, 2010, 11:25 AM
Ah. :) I have added 60 techs, plus whatever the normal game has.

I just got this from a very good thinking guy:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9711478&postcount=224

Gusss
Oct 27, 2010, 09:22 PM
My favorite part of civilization: researching and advancing.

Do i need to say you did a fantastic job?

My second favorite part of civilization: Using advanced units to kick some pre-historic civs.

I found no info about combat and stuff here, did you worked on this too?

Again, great job, just deleted all my saved games to play with your mod :P

Decimatus
Oct 28, 2010, 01:38 AM
Btw, there seems to be some weird problem going around where people can research UAV from turn 1. If any of you experience this, try deleting all versions of my mod and re-downloading it from the Modhub.

I just got this from a very good thinking guy:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9711478&postcount=224

That is a pretty serious list of techs... Some of the techs are kind of dubious though. What is Natya and why is it in the ancient era? Some other techs like Wax and terra cotta as well.

For me, that would be adding techs just for the sake of adding techs.

I will likely expand my ancient and classical out by another 5-10 techs each, but I doubt I will get anywhere near as complicated as that.


Though, actually when I implement the extra tech pages, that is when you might see some frivolous techs enter my tree, but they will all be optional and on the side.

My favorite part of civilization: researching and advancing.

Do i need to say you did a fantastic job?

My second favorite part of civilization: Using advanced units to kick some pre-historic civs.

I found no info about combat and stuff here, did you worked on this too?

Again, great job, just deleted all my saved games to play with your mod :P

Thanks, I hope you enjoy it. :)

Please remember to take note of any bugs you experience and report them so that I can smash them and make it even better. :)

Decimatus
Oct 28, 2010, 03:20 AM
This is quite the project. I am curious to see what develops with the adding /changing of the 'Tech Tree eras'. :yeah:

Good luck with the project!

Thanks. :)


I am working on changing the strat resource mechanic once you hit the industrial era.

Instead of needing 1 oil for 1 tank, you are going to need say 2-3 oil for an auto plant which will then allow you to pump out oil units such as tanks and mobile artillery. Aircraft plant for oil air units. Industrial Shipyard for Battleships, Carriers, and normal Subs.

This will make certain cities very key to your empire, and while you will only be able to build strong units in a few cities, there won't be a hard cap on their numbers. Also, their production cost will likely be boosted to keep them expensive.

What I really need for this to be as good as it can be, is artwork for the auto plants/shipyards etc so that players can see which cities are key by scouting them out and seeing those structures planted around the city.

Decimatus
Oct 28, 2010, 08:23 AM
Updated the OP with some details on the new Post-Industrial strategic resource system coming in a week or so.

It is basically done now, but I need to test it and I also want to give you guys some time with V4 and I will also try and fill out the NanoTech Era for V5 as well.

Ganja
Oct 28, 2010, 10:10 AM
Great job your doing here Procylon. I remember the days of playing call to power and why at the time I ditched Civ to play it. Very indepth game really liked it and am glad your working on this.
I'm not too sure yet on your new method for strategic resources, I have really liked the feel of having to plan to build the army with the limited resources (I use a half strategic resources mod to further value the units you can build). It kind of takes away the feel of needing to acquire more resources. If you have two then you can build unlimited amounts of specific unit.

Gusss
Oct 28, 2010, 11:18 AM
I am playing your mod with some others, like random event, luxury resource display and some other that should not be interfering with call to power.

I have experienced a weird production boom from the very beggining. Starting on a river, i had lots of tiles 3food and 3hammers, with two cows and one horse, the city was like 15 population before i researched the first three or four techs... Ive got a great engineer by building the Maze i think and so, even before the wheel, i had 20 population and 70 production. I always emphasize on science, but i had so much production that i had to keep training scouts and deleting just to be able to advance the turn, because i had nothing else to build.

I think some balance is needed, maybe the easyer way would be tripling everything's production cost.

strategyonly
Oct 28, 2010, 11:54 AM
I made a few changes, but they do not take, what do i have to do?

Decimatus
Oct 28, 2010, 06:25 PM
I am playing your mod with some others, like random event, luxury resource display and some other that should not be interfering with call to power.

I have experienced a weird production boom from the very beggining. Starting on a river, i had lots of tiles 3food and 3hammers, with two cows and one horse, the city was like 15 population before i researched the first three or four techs... Ive got a great engineer by building the Maze i think and so, even before the wheel, i had 20 population and 70 production. I always emphasize on science, but i had so much production that i had to keep training scouts and deleting just to be able to advance the turn, because i had nothing else to build.

I think some balance is needed, maybe the easyer way would be tripling everything's production cost.

Which game speed are you on? I never had that problem on standard and no one playing marathon seems to complain. If you are playing quick then it isn't the first time I have heard reports of having to do things like this, so I may just have to tweak it a bit for that gamespeed.

Boosted production levels to give more action in the ancient/classical times so tripling costs would be counterproductive.

I am considering moving wealth up or creating something so that there is something to for those high production cities to produce when there is nothing else. Could possibly be diplomats that you send to city states for better relations.

I made a few changes, but they do not take, what do i have to do?

I know nothing about the art aspects of this game, sorry. :)

chrome-rome
Oct 28, 2010, 07:55 PM
Bug Report

I must fist say that I love the ideas in this mod. I do have a little problem though: the coastal water tiles "reflect" the land tiles. I know that's a very abstract statement, but I can't think of any other way to say it. Specifically, when I look at water tiles I see stuff that shouldn't be there, like workers, horses, and buildings.

Everything else looks great. I will definitely be following this.

Decimatus
Oct 28, 2010, 10:03 PM
Bug Report

I must fist say that I love the ideas in this mod. I do have a little problem though: the coastal water tiles "reflect" the land tiles. I know that's a very abstract statement, but I can't think of any other way to say it. Specifically, when I look at water tiles I see stuff that shouldn't be there, like workers, horses, and buildings.

Everything else looks great. I will definitely be following this.

Like all tiles or just randomly?

I know the vanilla game has problems where a unit will be displayed in one tile but will actually be sitting in the next one over, so when you go to move you end up in a fight you didn't expect.

Not sure if this is the same problem, but it sounds similar.

Catastrophe90
Oct 29, 2010, 09:16 AM
Bug Report

I must fist say that I love the ideas in this mod. I do have a little problem though: the coastal water tiles "reflect" the land tiles. I know that's a very abstract statement, but I can't think of any other way to say it. Specifically, when I look at water tiles I see stuff that shouldn't be there, like workers, horses, and buildings.

Everything else looks great. I will definitely be following this.

I thinks its a graphics bug, sometimes I get improvements that float around when I scroll around the map. Happens in Vanilla Civ 5 too.

The mod right is pretty awesome (last game I forgot about luxuries and ended up unhappy in 3000BC since population grows so fast). You might want to remove the "May build up to 4" part in the tooltips of National Wonders for now though (the +20% Culture one still has it) until you can solve the problem.

Also, how the heck do you build the Statue of Zeus? I'm guessing that it's linked to some Resource? Because I had whole games where no one (not even the AIs) ever built it. Adding the required resource in the tooltip would help a lot.

Edit: Another thing that irks me: Archaeology (Museums) is before Acoustics (Opera Houses) in the Tech Tree, but Museums require Opera Houses to be built. Maybe swap their positions?

Edit 2 (I'm editing as I play): The DDX Destroyer's Civilipedia entry displays TXT_KEY_CIV5_INDUSTRIAL_DDX_DESTROYER_TEXT. Probably a typo somewhere.

Fitovec
Oct 29, 2010, 01:29 PM
Hello. I write to you from Russia with Love ;-)

I write through online the translator so I ask to forgive me for discrepancy of transfer.

Has played in This updating. I in delight. I wish you to bring matters to the end.
Wanted to ask, you not against if I Is engaged in transfer of yours a fashion on great and mighty Russian? ;-)

Buddha2723
Oct 29, 2010, 03:12 PM
Things like going so far as to differentiate between a laser rifle and a laser pistol tech is way too detailed, and would clutter things up real quick.

Advanced mining is a little generic. There are things like Advanced flight, but that at least gives Helicopters and Jet engines. I would probably increase mining through some other tech such as exoskeletons and others.

For anti-gravity fields, I won't go quite that far. However, I do have the unified field theory tech which is going to lead to some force fields and limited hovering ability later in the nanotech era.

A little tech renaming might do the trick in some cases. Tunneling machines instead of adv. mining, fusion power packs instead of laser rifles, crystalline batteries instead of laser pistols. Crystalline batteries and anti grav would probably be the two most advanced technologies I proposed, but might not be as far off as you think. Costing twice as many research points of any other tech, the last two before future tech, and they might not be out of place.

Do you have your tech tree posted anywhere? If I could get a look at it I could see how you are thinking, and maybe make some better suggestions. Keep up the good work with this, I hope to finally get some good sci-fi in ciV, instead of always being forced to end my civs in the present.

Decimatus
Oct 29, 2010, 03:16 PM
I thinks its a graphics bug, sometimes I get improvements that float around when I scroll around the map. Happens in Vanilla Civ 5 too.

The mod right is pretty awesome (last game I forgot about luxuries and ended up unhappy in 3000BC since population grows so fast). You might want to remove the "May build up to 4" part in the tooltips of National Wonders for now though (the +20% Culture one still has it) until you can solve the problem.

Also, how the heck do you build the Statue of Zeus? I'm guessing that it's linked to some Resource? Because I had whole games where no one (not even the AIs) ever built it. Adding the required resource in the tooltip would help a lot.

Edit: Another thing that irks me: Archaeology (Museums) is before Acoustics (Opera Houses) in the Tech Tree, but Museums require Opera Houses to be built. Maybe swap their positions?

Edit 2 (I'm editing as I play): The DDX Destroyer's Civilipedia entry displays TXT_KEY_CIV5_INDUSTRIAL_DDX_DESTROYER_TEXT. Probably a typo somewhere.

Yeah I think I missed literary epic when I changed it back to 1 per.

And also Zeus requires Ivory, thanks for reminding me to update that. :)

I hit the same thing with museums in my test game last night lol. I was like, I wanted that 100% culture from the hermitage, now where is my museum...

Pretty sure the type is the _INDUSTRIAL_ part. I took that out of most of my text strings, but forgot about it from time to time.


Thanks for the bug report! :)

Hello. I write to you from Russia with Love ;-)

I write through online the translator so I ask to forgive me for discrepancy of transfer.

Has played in This updating. I in delight. I wish you to bring matters to the end.
Wanted to ask, you not against if I Is engaged in transfer of yours a fashion on great and mighty Russian? ;-)

Glad you enjoy it. :)

I assume you mean translation? I am fine with that. Good luck!

chrome-rome
Oct 29, 2010, 03:19 PM
Like all tiles or just randomly?

I know the vanilla game has problems where a unit will be displayed in one tile but will actually be sitting in the next one over, so when you go to move you end up in a fight you didn't expect.

Not sure if this is the same problem, but it sounds similar.

It was just randomly. I started a new game and things were back to normal. I'm beginning to think it was just a graphics hiccup

Jennar
Oct 30, 2010, 02:23 PM
Not sure if this was reported already but Crossbowman/Longbowman/ChoNoKu don't upgrade into machine gunners like they are supposed to. You have their unitupgardes listed as Row instead of Update like it should be. Simple fix. I corrected in my download and it works fine.

Catastrophe90
Oct 30, 2010, 04:52 PM
Did you remove the "Ignore Terrain Costs" promotion for Scouts? Because my Scouts now get bogged down by Marshes and Rivers...

chrome-rome
Oct 30, 2010, 10:02 PM
I have the same problem as catastrophe. I just went in and manually added back the ignore terrain for the scouts. Something minor: the text for mathematics says "Academy_TEXT_KEY_YIELD_SCIENCE yield improved by 2." I think it would just need to be changed to [ICON_SCIENCE] to achieve the beaker icon.

BTW, I love the mod. I feel bad that I can't really contribute anything significant, so I'll just do my best to inform you of minor problems:). Can't wait for the next update

Decimatus
Oct 31, 2010, 05:27 AM
Not sure if this was reported already but Crossbowman/Longbowman/ChoNoKu don't upgrade into machine gunners like they are supposed to. You have their unitupgardes listed as Row instead of Update like it should be. Simple fix. I corrected in my download and it works fine.

Yeah I saw that as well, sorry for the trouble. :) It will be corrected in V5. Going to finish this test game, do a slew of fixes, do a big balance pass(double or triple costs in industrial onward), do a second test game, do a few more fixes and balance tweaks, and then if it looks decent, launch it.

Just to fill some of you guys in, here are some of the bugs on my current fix list:

Fix Crossbow upgrade path.
Many units need an update so that they reflect being obsolete given the new era expansion.
Publishing house doesn't seem to be giving science.
DDX Civpedia is wrong/broken.
Statue of Zeus needs a text update to reflect that it needs ivory in the vicinity.
Museum comes before the opera house yet requires the opera house in it's construction.
Television, Server Farm, and Prison both seem broken when it comes to the reduced tile culture cost. Maybe others that do this too, not sure yet.
Academy text string is broken.

Those are the current bugs that I have noticed. There may be many more buildings that don't give their stated bonuses, so I will be looking even closer at that in my next playtest.

If you guys see anything that isn't on this list let me know and I will surely take a look at it. :)

So on top of the fixes, the new industrial system will be coming with V5. It seems to be working decently, though I need to take a closer look at the AI to make sure they are keeping up. They at least seem to be growing a little faster which is good, but I will add upon that and I also want to see about reducing late game player growth, perhaps by cutting the hospital down to 25% food kept among a few other minor tweaks in that area.

Also, if I can swing it, I will try for some aircraft stack limits. Thinking 5 to start out.

I have the same problem as catastrophe. I just went in and manually added back the ignore terrain for the scouts. Something minor: the text for mathematics says "Academy_TEXT_KEY_YIELD_SCIENCE yield improved by 2." I think it would just need to be changed to [ICON_SCIENCE] to achieve the beaker icon.

BTW, I love the mod. I feel bad that I can't really contribute anything significant, so I'll just do my best to inform you of minor problems. Can't wait for the next update

This was actually removed in the vanilla game as well as of the last patch. At some point I might actually create a line of scout units that upgrade through the eras that will scout at first, and later help you spot for artillery and airstrikes.

About the academy string... I actually spent a good 30-50 minutes on this before I launched V4 but couldn't seem to fix/update it. I will probably take another crack at it some other time.


Its fine. :) Every minor problem reported to me is one less problem that many other plays don't have to experience in the next version. :)

Buddha2723
Oct 31, 2010, 07:15 AM
Played through my first testing yesterday, didn't get very far though. Noticed another few TEXT_KEY_YIELD_SCIENCE in the tech tree. I disagree that a fusion plant would boost production so much, though I didn't get near that level on this epic game, to see if it was a problem. I like just about everything, but I think the units and settlers should represent more of an investment. On the higher difficulties I play, there is almost a stream of enemy units, and I think in most cases, an army group(I think of units in this game as massive armies with a primary focus, infantry, cavalry, etc.) requires several times the investment of a single building. Also with +50% settler policy settlers built too quick for the game I played. I recommend 3 to 5 times the cost for units, settlers, and workers(could lower improvement build times to compensate), to help reduce unit clutter in longer games, esp. when AI is emperor or up. I'd also remove uranium for missile requisite, and if possible change it to requisite for manhattan project. It is ridiculous, you shoot off a missile then reuse the uranium to make a new one? Make wmd missiles 10x more expensive, giving incentive to build new nuke plants, hydrogen bomb plants, and make the uranium choice be between power plants(2 uranium needed), wmd missile plants(1 uranium), or war walkers. Maybe Oak Ridge Wonder? (Haven't read all your wonders yet, so apologies if it's already there). I felt like I was too strong early game with my nearby rivers. To help offset the extra food you give around rivers, I'd change water mill to one food, no maint, maybe a coin or two to make it a more economic building. I agree with you on the hospital, I think there should be more 10% storage buildings, like granary along with aqueduct, so only fully built up cities keep more than 50% food.

Thanks for reading this, I will give you more feedback after I finish a normal speed game. Thanks for all your hard work so far. It's looking like a beauty! (And perfect for my scenario too!)

Decimatus
Oct 31, 2010, 08:27 AM
Played through my first testing yesterday, didn't get very far though. Noticed another few TEXT_KEY_YIELD_SCIENCE in the tech tree. I disagree that a fusion plant would boost production so much, though I didn't get near that level on this epic game, to see if it was a problem. I like just about everything, but I think the units and settlers should represent more of an investment. On the higher difficulties I play, there is almost a stream of enemy units, and I think in most cases, an army group(I think of units in this game as massive armies with a primary focus, infantry, cavalry, etc.) requires several times the investment of a single building. Also with +50% settler policy settlers built too quick for the game I played. I recommend 3 to 5 times the cost for units, settlers, and workers(could lower improvement build times to compensate), to help reduce unit clutter in longer games, esp. when AI is emperor or up. I'd also remove uranium for missile requisite, and if possible change it to requisite for manhattan project. It is ridiculous, you shoot off a missile then reuse the uranium to make a new one? Make wmd missiles 10x more expensive, giving incentive to build new nuke plants, hydrogen bomb plants, and make the uranium choice be between power plants(2 uranium needed), wmd missile plants(1 uranium), or war walkers. Maybe Oak Ridge Wonder? (Haven't read all your wonders yet, so apologies if it's already there). I felt like I was too strong early game with my nearby rivers. To help offset the extra food you give around rivers, I'd change water mill to one food, no maint, maybe a coin or two to make it a more economic building. I agree with you on the hospital, I think there should be more 10% storage buildings, like granary along with aqueduct, so only fully built up cities keep more than 50% food.

Thanks for reading this, I will give you more feedback after I finish a normal speed game. Thanks for all your hard work so far. It's looking like a beauty! (And perfect for my scenario too!)

Nice bit of feedback. :)

I agree with the unit cost increase, though I don't think it would be as high as 2-3x in the first few eras. I also want the player to build a good number of units. Maybe a 20-50% increase in unit cost in ancient to renaissance units, and then scaling up to the 3x, maybe 4x for industrial and beyond. Do another round of testing around those levels and reassess.

One thing I will point out though is that I do not view units as massive armies. They are divisions at most, and battalions at least. 100+ unit wars on standard maps is a general goal.

I think you are right about the settlers. It is a little too quick on continent coverage at the current rate. However, that system causes the AI to wage vicious wars in the early game around swords/knights which isn't necessarily a bad thing...


One thing you will notice about the +% production items is that they don't give as much as you might think. Once you get to that era you will understand. My second biggest balance goal(after production costs) for post industrial right now is to get the gold situation under control. First though I will set the production values and see how it goes from there, and maybe up the hurry multipliers on many units.


I like the idea of greatly increasing nuke cost, and especially separating them from the normal nuclear unit production buildings(which is in my current build). I will see about working that in. Oak Ridge is a good idea for a national wonder I think. Perhaps even make it so that the Oak Ridge city is the only city capable of building nukes.


I appreciate the feedback, especially on balance issues which can be the hardest part to gather info on. Enjoy. :)

Numi
Oct 31, 2010, 11:22 AM
I just wanna say that I was introduced to Civ on Call to Power 2 and looooved all the futuristic stuff then got civ 4 and was sad when it didnt have any of that to my suprise lol. But on that note i really appreciate what you are doing, especially once you get an artist to help on units, cant wait, keep up the good work.

chicadee987
Oct 31, 2010, 01:26 PM
Issue: There are few buildings with a limited build count. Info text says that you can build up to 4 and still you can only build one.

darkedone02
Oct 31, 2010, 09:51 PM
I won't play this mod yet until everything is a bit stable and hardly any visible bugs will be appearing that could break the game or crash it.

Although I do like how you are planning to do on this mod, from adding new technology and advancing from stone age to the future-era stage similar to Rise of Mankind for Civ 4. I wish we can expand it more by adding more technology for stone age and other ages so that each era last a bit longer. Add more units to each game, such as stone thrower's, javalin thrower's, longbowman and crossbow man, Ballista, bombard, zeppelin, and many other units that are historically accurate and place into the game.

I also wish there was a certain way where modder's be able to add in new leader music after each era, the background changes along with the costume of the leader after each era (like civ 3 for example), so that we had a accurate representation of the era. It be nice to change the Animation so that it be better too.

Decimatus
Nov 01, 2010, 04:18 AM
Issue: There are few buildings with a limited build count. Info text says that you can build up to 4 and still you can only build one.

Yeah I missed a couple of them when I changed it back to 1 per civ. I will see about hitting them with some other fixes.

I just wanna say that I was introduced to Civ on Call to Power 2 and looooved all the futuristic stuff then got civ 4 and was sad when it didnt have any of that to my suprise lol. But on that note i really appreciate what you are doing, especially once you get an artist to help on units, cant wait, keep up the good work.

Thanks, I hope you enjoy it. And yeah, definitely can't wait to get some quality art. There is already progress on the unit front, and as soon as they get the animations down we should see a gradual flood of new unit graphics.

I won't play this mod yet until everything is a bit stable and hardly any visible bugs will be appearing that could break the game or crash it.

Although I do like how you are planning to do on this mod, from adding new technology and advancing from stone age to the future-era stage similar to Rise of Mankind for Civ 4. I wish we can expand it more by adding more technology for stone age and other ages so that each era last a bit longer. Add more units to each game, such as stone thrower's, javalin thrower's, longbowman and crossbow man, Ballista, bombard, zeppelin, and many other units that are historically accurate and place into the game.

I also wish there was a certain way where modder's be able to add in new leader music after each era, the background changes along with the costume of the leader after each era (like civ 3 for example), so that we had a accurate representation of the era. It be nice to change the Animation so that it be better too.

Well the game is perfectly stable. I have yet to see an issue where this mod causes a crash, and the only real visual bugs are bugs that already exist in Vanilla.

The biggest issue right now is the need for more balance adjustments for the post-industrialism economy, and some tweaks to get the AI to grow it's cities in a similar fashion.

There is a fair chance that I will puff the Ancient and classical ages out to be 3 techs wide, so you should see more playability in that area sometime in the future, perhaps immediately following the final future era implementation.

I probably won't be adding a prehistoric era unless I have accomplished the majority of my other goals.

Music, art, and animations will all see growth as we move forward. Slow growth perhaps, but we will get there.

ikillu64
Nov 01, 2010, 09:11 AM
Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for all of your hard work on this mod, I enjoy it very much especially since the future era is my favorite. I have a few suggestions and critiques though. First off, it seem there are WAY too many great scientists in my last game I only actually researched 2 techs, the rest I got from great scientists. You should probably not have as many buildings that give you great scientists, and for that matter all great people. I had tons of great engineers last game. Second, maybe you could get some ideas from the Beyond the Future mod, it has some neat techs. Third, I don't know if this is a vanilla game problem or if its your mod, but I have never seen another civilization launch a nuke. I have launched tons at others even ones with nukes, but they never fire back, or attack with them. Fourth, I don't see a use for the micro UAV team. I rather use mass driver artillery because by then they both take the 1 turn to make, and the mass driver artillery can move farther, and do more damage, so I don't see a use for the micro UAV team. Finally, again iI don't know if this is caused by your mod, but I was having a war with Germany and I was about to attack one of their cities, but it wouldn't let me attack unless I went to war with Arabia because THERE WAS A SUBMARINE. This wasn't even by an ocean either it was surrounded by land, so I had no choice but to go to war with Arabia too. One last thing, I think there should be a new advanced worker after exoskeletons that makes improvements quicker. Again, thanks for your hard work.

Decimatus
Nov 01, 2010, 11:07 PM
Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for all of your hard work on this mod, I enjoy it very much especially since the future era is my favorite. I have a few suggestions and critiques though. First off, it seem there are WAY too many great scientists in my last game I only actually researched 2 techs, the rest I got from great scientists. You should probably not have as many buildings that give you great scientists, and for that matter all great people. I had tons of great engineers last game. Second, maybe you could get some ideas from the Beyond the Future mod, it has some neat techs. Third, I don't know if this is a vanilla game problem or if its your mod, but I have never seen another civilization launch a nuke. I have launched tons at others even ones with nukes, but they never fire back, or attack with them. Fourth, I don't see a use for the micro UAV team. I rather use mass driver artillery because by then they both take the 1 turn to make, and the mass driver artillery can move farther, and do more damage, so I don't see a use for the micro UAV team. Finally, again iI don't know if this is caused by your mod, but I was having a war with Germany and I was about to attack one of their cities, but it wouldn't let me attack unless I went to war with Arabia because THERE WAS A SUBMARINE. This wasn't even by an ocean either it was surrounded by land, so I had no choice but to go to war with Arabia too. One last thing, I think there should be a new advanced worker after exoskeletons that makes improvements quicker. Again, thanks for your hard work.

Thanks. :)

What speed and mapsize did you play on? And how many cities?

Most games I play use tons of great scientists and I still have to research the majority of the techs. Also, the tech era and the date usually match up pretty well.

Great engineer improvements now give about +24 production by the end of the game. If you have too many, plop them down on your deserts and tundras.

I have never seen an AI launch a nuke in either vanilla or my mod either. I might look into this down the road, but in general I plan on making nukes quite a bit more expensive anyway.

The cost difference between units should actually be apparent in V5, so cheaper units will be worthwhile. Also, since mass driver artillery will require an advanced auto plant, you can build micro UAV teams in other cities that don't have them.

I don't understand, there was a submarine where? In 1 hex you wanted to move into? A ground hex?

I might create a new line of worker, but it is hard to make a new unit that is noticeably different due to the fact that the current worker gets so many bonuses throughout the eras that he is pretty fast by the endgame. If I change this I would likely need to revamp the entire worker system. Maybe someday, but not anytime soon.


Thanks for your feedback. :)

Buddha2723
Nov 02, 2010, 10:24 AM
One thing I will point out though is that I do not view units as massive armies. They are divisions at most, and battalions at least. 100+ unit wars on standard maps is a general goal.

One thing you will notice about the +% production items is that they don't give as much as you might think. Once you get to that era you will understand. My second biggest balance goal(after production costs) for post industrial right now is to get the gold situation under control. First though I will set the production values and see how it goes from there, and maybe up the hurry multipliers on many units.

I like the idea of greatly increasing nuke cost, and especially separating them from the normal nuclear unit production buildings(which is in my current build). I will see about working that in. Oak Ridge is a good idea for a national wonder I think. Perhaps even make it so that the Oak Ridge city is the only city capable of building nukes.


That's the other way to look at units. I don't because they can't stack, and I feel divisions and down could stack on one tile. That's not a deal-breaker by any means though.

I see what you are saying about the production, but what are the gold issues? I didn't notice any issues in my first test.

I think maybe Oak Ridge would give +200% to building nukes, so only one city could build them economically, but you wouldn't be left nuke-less if that city got taken.

Jennar
Nov 02, 2010, 05:05 PM
Sun Tzu's Art of War Wonder is not giving XP to either the city it is built in nor any other city.

You have building list as Sun_TZU and the upgrade referencing Sun_TSU. Still isn't working. Not sure why.

Think I found it. Despite being able to load multiple BuldingFreeExperiences into the table it will only recognize the last one.

Decimatus
Nov 02, 2010, 05:45 PM
Sun Tzu's Art of War Wonder is not giving XP to either the city it is built in nor any other city.

You have building list as Sun_TZU and the upgrade referencing Sun_TSU. Easy to fix, checked in my version and working.

Nice catch. :) Will be fixed for V5.


That's the other way to look at units. I don't because they can't stack, and I feel divisions and down could stack on one tile. That's not a deal-breaker by any means though.

I see what you are saying about the production, but what are the gold issues? I didn't notice any issues in my first test.

I think maybe Oak Ridge would give +200% to building nukes, so only one city could build them economically, but you wouldn't be left nuke-less if that city got taken.

Personally I think there are many reasons that it is better to view units as divisions instead of massive armies.

1 You don't really flank with entire armies.
2 It becomes difficult to conceptualize artillery, air, sea, and missile units if units are considered to be armies.
3 A division is 10,000 to 30,000 troops which isn't exactly small.
4 Map sizes really don't reflect how truly massive earth is, and of course the different sizes makes armies better in some cases and divisions better in others.
5 It is precisely because they can't stack that makes them more suited as divisions. 1UpT is pretty much tailored for the more detailed combat system that you get with individual divisions.

Anyway, that is just my view... :p


Did you get past industrial/modern in your game? Gold is fine until that point. Eventually though, you can buy all the missiles and planes you want because of your vast hoard of gold.


I suppose that could be a better way to handle nukes. I would of course still require a Nuclear Plant for the nukes.

Decimatus
Nov 02, 2010, 08:19 PM
There seems to be some persistent problem where strategic resources past iron and horses do not display in their proper places. However, the game still recognizes that you have them since you are able to create resource requiring buildings.

My best guess is that it does not display since there are no units requiring those resources anymore. This may in fact be the only way the game really knows if something is strategic or not.

This also seems to cause another incidental problem where city states won't give you what it considers bonus resources. Since the game doesn't view oil as strategic for instance, the city states also do not consider them as such and therefore do not trade them to you.

So, I am going to do 1 more test game after this one to see if this is the case.


If my assumptions are correct, then I am going to have to have a few units requiring resources.

Likely candidates are nukes for uranium, battleships for oil, and stealth/hypersonic bombers for aluminum.

Decimatus
Nov 02, 2010, 11:50 PM
Version 5 is now uploaded. See the OP for details on the new Strategic Building system and other patch notes. :)

Buddha2723
Nov 03, 2010, 07:41 AM
There seems to be some persistent problem where strategic resources past iron and horses do not display in their proper places. However, the game still recognizes that you have them since you are able to create resource requiring buildings.

My best guess is that it does not display since there are no units requiring those resources anymore. This may in fact be the only way the game really knows if something is strategic or not.

This also seems to cause another incidental problem where city states won't give you what it considers bonus resources. Since the game doesn't view oil as strategic for instance, the city states also do not consider them as such and therefore do not trade them to you.

So, I am going to do 1 more test game after this one to see if this is the case.


If my assumptions are correct, then I am going to have to have a few units requiring resources.

Likely candidates are nukes for uranium, battleships for oil, and stealth/hypersonic bombers for aluminum.

Simple fix=New non-combat units requiring those resources/med-evac chopper--or MASH if you liked the show-- (Industrial-modern; 5 STR, starts with medic)requiring oil; mobile city(Modern-digital; superworker, 20 STR) requiring uranium; Crane choppers(Modern; 4 move worker) requires aluminum. If that works it will re-recognize resources with units that are optional.

chicadee987
Nov 03, 2010, 07:55 AM
I forgot to mention this in my last post:

Utopia project is way too cheap, I finished it in 3 turns ca. 1700.. Also tech went on too rapidly from classical era onward: Had armies which I shouldnt have had until 1940s. Wonder prices also needs to get higher cos I made every wonder from medieval era onward. Played huge map with prince.

Also gold should be more scarse cos I was able to buy everything later on.

Gazebo
Nov 03, 2010, 12:05 PM
Impressive! I will be looking at this more and more as it develops.

Let me know if you want to add my diplo mod to your work, if in fact you plan on adding such a feature. It will save you some time.

G

chrome-rome
Nov 03, 2010, 03:58 PM
Hey just a few typos that I noticed as I was clicking through the buildings:

1. the aircraft plant description says "OIL" instead of "Oil"
2. the industrial warehouse says "10% Food. in this city." Probably should be "10% Food in this city."
3. the laser manufacturing module reads "TXT_KEY_BUILDING_LASER_MANUFACTURING_MODULE_DESC" where the game info should be. I don't know if this is just a place holder until a description is developed or a typo in the code somewhere.

These are all minor problems I know, but I see this mod as having so much potential that anything that could be fixed should be. Keep up the good work; this is currently my favorite mod!

Decimatus
Nov 03, 2010, 09:17 PM
Hey just a few typos that I noticed as I was clicking through the buildings:

1. the aircraft plant description says "OIL" instead of "Oil"
2. the industrial warehouse says "10% Food. in this city." Probably should be "10% Food in this city."
3. the laser manufacturing module reads "TXT_KEY_BUILDING_LASER_MANUFACTURING_MODULE_DESC" where the game info should be. I don't know if this is just a place holder until a description is developed or a typo in the code somewhere.

These are all minor problems I know, but I see this mod as having so much potential that anything that could be fixed should be. Keep up the good work; this is currently my favorite mod!

Fixed, Fixed, and Fixed. Thats why this is alpha, thanks for the report. :)

Simple fix=New non-combat units requiring those resources/med-evac chopper--or MASH if you liked the show-- (Industrial-modern; 5 STR, starts with medic)requiring oil; mobile city(Modern-digital; superworker, 20 STR) requiring uranium; Crane choppers(Modern; 4 move worker) requires aluminum. If that works it will re-recognize resources with units that are optional.

I have a placeholder system in for now. Once I add the multiple tech pages I am going to add some optional units such as heavy tanks and paris gun type units that will require resources and be stronger.

I forgot to mention this in my last post:

Utopia project is way too cheap, I finished it in 3 turns ca. 1700.. Also tech went on too rapidly from classical era onward: Had armies which I shouldnt have had until 1940s. Wonder prices also needs to get higher cos I made every wonder from medieval era onward. Played huge map with prince.

Also gold should be more scarse cos I was able to buy everything later on.

What gamespeed?

Gold won't be more scarce, but you will use a lot more of it. Production costs have been increased across the board. The hurry modifier has also been increased. May not be perfect yet, but it should be better.

Utopia project will cost 20000 production in V6. Once I implement the new social policies, I will see if I can change it's requirement to be something like 20-30 full branches instead of 5.

Impressive! I will be looking at this more and more as it develops.

Let me know if you want to add my diplo mod to your work, if in fact you plan on adding such a feature. It will save you some time.

G

Maybe at some point down the line. :)

Hope you enjoy it!

strategyonly
Nov 03, 2010, 09:22 PM
I am trying to get more ideas, in another thread, hope you dont mind? I have posted your Tech Tree as an "example." Great work btw:goodjob:

Decimatus
Nov 03, 2010, 09:38 PM
I am trying to get more ideas, in another thread, hope you dont mind? I have posted your Tech Tree as an "example." Great work btw:goodjob:

Its fine, you can use it all you want as long as you credit me. :)

strategyonly
Nov 03, 2010, 09:44 PM
Its fine, you can use it all you want as long as you credit me. :)

Right now its just showing people whats there and trying to get idea's of adding new era's and tech tree incorporation and policies;)

chicadee987
Nov 04, 2010, 07:56 AM
Played in epic speed at v4.. Started a new game with v5 and early game seems to be more balanced now.. Ill let you know if I find issues..

danielshannon
Nov 04, 2010, 08:24 AM
I'd like to see some of Alpha Centauri's future society social engineering choices as social policy trees.

Cybernetic - a transhumanism tree that would be incompatible with Piety and Tradition

Eudaimonic - a "futuristic paradise where resource scarcity is no longer a concern and every human is free to fulfill their intellectual/artistic potential" tree that would be incompatible with honor, order, and autocracy

Thought Control - futuristic totalitarian technocratic dictatorship tree that would be incompatible with freedom and liberty

Decimatus
Nov 05, 2010, 05:38 AM
I'd like to see some of Alpha Centauri's future society social engineering choices as social policy trees.

Cybernetic - a transhumanism tree that would be incompatible with Piety and Tradition

Eudaimonic - a "futuristic paradise where resource scarcity is no longer a concern and every human is free to fulfill their intellectual/artistic potential" tree that would be incompatible with honor, order, and autocracy

Thought Control - futuristic totalitarian technocratic dictatorship tree that would be incompatible with freedom and liberty

My plans for the social policy system completely transcend what the devs implemented.

Check out the first post for a list of things that I already have in mind. Still a work in progress of course.

Call to Power did have mind control though, and the AI entity, so I will definitely be implementing some things along those lines, probably in multiple areas.

Futuristic policies are going to take a lot of hard thinking though. The Eudaimonic thing sounds more like a great leap in technology and less as a form of government or ideology.

Current plans for future governments include Virtual Democracy, Technocracy, Corporate, and Ecotopia. Possibly have some hive mind and AI government types in there too. Future government systems and ideologies might be related to AI, genetic, cybernetic, environmental, etc concepts.

Played in epic speed at v4.. Started a new game with v5 and early game seems to be more balanced now.. Ill let you know if I find issues..

Good, let me know how it turns out. :)

JSnider
Nov 05, 2010, 06:49 AM
Think this has already been reported .. not sure, playing with v5 and at start could research UAV, cost was couple 1000 turns but there. Then got it from a goody hut and tada in the modern age. Also on the tech selector at the left edge of the screen it and other techs (ballistic and carriage if recall) show up multiple times. I'll try to pull v5 down again just to be sure didn't lose something in the ether.
Also think ther should be an option from the start not to build anything .. maybe put a dummy sink in that select to build that is nothing. At the point where really can't afford anything else or will run out of funds yet can't stop bldg.

Decimatus
Nov 05, 2010, 07:10 AM
Think this has already been reported .. not sure, playing with v5 and at start could research UAV, cost was couple 1000 turns but there. Then got it from a goody hut and tada in the modern age. Also on the tech selector at the left edge of the screen it and other techs (ballistic and carriage if recall) show up multiple times. I'll try to pull v5 down again just to be sure didn't lose something in the ether.
Also think ther should be an option from the start not to build anything .. maybe put a dummy sink in that select to build that is nothing. At the point where really can't afford anything else or will run out of funds yet can't stop bldg.

Weird, people reported this at V4 launch too.

I had them delete my mod and download it again. Seemed to fix it for them. Not sure what is causing it, but UAV is a recurring theme. UAV is no longer in my game, as it was renamed Unmanned Aircraft. So I have to guess that you upgraded from V3? There could be some kind of conflict with the upgrade.


You are right about the early production sink. What do you guys think? Make a 10% production to food sink? :p Yeah you have enough food hehe. Unfortunately culture isn't a yield or I would add a 10% culture process with Mysticism or something.

I will see about adding in a 10% gold yield, or making a slave unit that can be sacrificed like a great engineer for some small production boost to a city. Or both. :)

chicadee987
Nov 05, 2010, 07:37 AM
Situation so far:
ROME
CONTINENTS
PRINCE
EPIC
INDUSTRIAL ERA(ca.1400)

------

This issue has arised propably because of increased productivity in the early game:
The AI doesn´t seem to know how to evaluate true military strength. It masses too many early units(classical era) which make the army value boom. Trusting it´s higher army strength it seems to underestimate the threat of 3rd parties and declared war where he withraws practicly all forces from border. 3rd part should be seen potentially hostile and treated as such(has refused research agreements, open borders and other trading. Also has massive armies ´guarding´ borders).

Mostly because of vanilla AI:
AI which is at war with stronger enemy decides to keep attacking city state which is allied to 3rd party. The 3rd party has declared hostility by saing "you will regret..". The 3rd party(obviously me :-p) has blocked all attacks to the city state by surrounding it´s nearby hexes. AI uses a culture bomb to kick 3rd party armies away w/o evaluating how 3rd party will react(instant declaration of war :D).

I know these are caused by the vanilla AI and I don´t know if they can be fixed in a short term. However, AI favors massive armies at expence of technological advance in the classical era which is fatal for long term development(atleast with this mod). AI seldom uses these troops other than border guarding(atleast in prince level(which imo should be the basic playing level). I think AI should be tweaked to favor walls, defensive army structure with moderate horses for classical era.

In the end problem is propably more about how the AI handles war in both mikro and makro levels(doesn´t wall pikes/spears, doesn´t evaluate the effect of production and income differences(which aren´t such a big thing in vanilla game), doesn´t know seem to know the difference of tactical retreat(list goes on forever).

One more thing(which you prolly are aware of):
Wonder quotes aren´t situated in proper place(new wonders).

Decimatus
Nov 05, 2010, 08:02 AM
Situation so far:
ROME
CONTINENTS
PRINCE
EPIC
MODERN ERA(ca.1350)

------

This issue has arised propably because of increased productivity in the early game:
The AI doesn´t seem to know how to evaluate true military strength. It masses too many early units(classical era) which make the army value boom. Trusting it´s higher army strength it seems to underestimate the threat of 3rd parties and declared war where he withraws practicly all forces from border. 3rd part should be seen potentially hostile and treated as such(has refused research agreements, open borders and other trading. Also has massive armies ´guarding´ borders).

Mostly because of vanilla AI:
AI which is at war with stronger enemy decides to keep attacking city state which is allied to 3rd party. The 3rd party has declared hostility by saing "you will regret..". The 3rd party(obviously me :-p) has blocked all attacks to the city state by surrounding it´s nearby hexes. AI uses a culture bomb to kick 3rd party armies away w/o evaluating how 3rd party will react(instant declaration of war :D).

I know these are caused by the vanilla AI and I don´t know if they can be fixed in a short term. However, AI favors massive armies at expence of technological advance in the classical era which is fatal for long term development(atleast with this mod). AI seldom uses these troops other than border guarding(atleast in prince level(which imo should be the basic playing level). I think AI should be tweaked to favor walls, defensive army structure with moderate horses for classical era.

In the end problem is propably more about how the AI handles war in both mikro and makro levels(doesn´t wall pikes/spears, doesn´t evaluate the effect of production and income differences(which aren´t such a big thing in vanilla game), doesn´t know seem to know the difference of tactical retreat(list goes on forever).

One more thing(which you prolly are aware of):
Wonder quotes aren´t situated in proper place(new wonders).

Yeah the AI has some problems, and unfortunately I can not address many of them, especially combat related.

It is one reason that I have not touched the AI, because I trust other modders to do a much better job at it than myself. Just about any AI mod should be compatible with my own.

If you could answer some questions I would appreciate it:
You hit Modern in ~1350, did you beeline to the a modern tech or did you research 75-90% of the techs that came before it?
Did you focus entirely only science specialists, great scientists, etc?
How many cities did you build?
What map size?
Roughly how many luxury goods did you have access to?


And yeah I hope to have a fix to the wonder text issue for V6. I keep forgetting about it, but I have it written down now. :)

chicadee987
Nov 05, 2010, 11:12 AM
Yeah the AI has some problems, and unfortunately I can not address many of them, especially combat related.

It is one reason that I have not touched the AI, because I trust other modders to do a much better job at it than myself. Just about any AI mod should be compatible with my own.

If you could answer some questions I would appreciate it:
You hit Modern in ~1350, did you beeline to the a modern tech or did you research 75-90% of the techs that came before it?
Did you focus entirely only science specialists, great scientists, etc?
How many cities did you build?
What map size?
Roughly how many luxury goods did you have access to?


And yeah I hope to have a fix to the wonder text issue for V6. I keep forgetting about it, but I have it written down now. :)

I´m playing with huge map.. I hit industrial era at ca. 1400 and ca.1500 I reached modern era.. I´m focusing on scisntists after reaching a point where my happiness went below 0 OR city can´t work on a tile.. Money income / hurry price ratio seems to be better now as I can hardly hurry new buildings to capital at the current point.

I Built 4 cities asap and kept expanding when didnt feel it´s hurting my wanted wonder/library/abbey builds.. I quit expanding after I ran out of good spots in the continent.. Had total of 10 cities at that point. My early game:

Capital builds worker and then monument.. By the time when capital grew to size 3 or 4 and then it started pushing settlers. 1st new city tries to build labyrith(for money returned). Next ones go for monument, warrior,monument. All cities were production favored while I mainly built farms(next to river) to support capitals growth.

I had a cotton and gems near my capital, but I went to plantation tech moderately late(middle ages or near). Later expansion gave me silver and I got whales from city state.

As social policy I picked:
Liberty-> Meritocracy. Honor-> Military caste. Freedom->Civil society-> Free speech-> Democracy. Rationalism-> Secularism. Order-> Planned econ.


Tech route(Ill skip the techs that were on the way that I wanted): Mining, Mysticism, Polyteism, Writing, Bronze working, Wheel, Prieshood, Horseback riding, Contruction, Chivalry, Feodalism, Civil service(bulbed), Engineering, Algebra, Education, Calculus(bulbed), Astronomy, Printing press, Blast furnace, Military tradition.
1st GS bulbed iron working(~20 turns at that point)!

Speaking of AI.. I merely said those issues because I don´t believe it´s possible to use some AI mod that has been made for vanilla game. This mod has very different rhytm than the vanilla and has to be played differently(units are expendable).

Tired of writing, over and out(back to the game :-p)

ikillu64
Nov 05, 2010, 10:19 PM
Thanks. :)

What speed and mapsize did you play on? And how many cities?

Most games I play use tons of great scientists and I still have to research the majority of the techs. Also, the tech era and the date usually match up pretty well.

Great engineer improvements now give about +24 production by the end of the game. If you have too many, plop them down on your deserts and tundras.

I have never seen an AI launch a nuke in either vanilla or my mod either. I might look into this down the road, but in general I plan on making nukes quite a bit more expensive anyway.

The cost difference between units should actually be apparent in V5, so cheaper units will be worthwhile. Also, since mass driver artillery will require an advanced auto plant, you can build micro UAV teams in other cities that don't have them.

I don't understand, there was a submarine where? In 1 hex you wanted to move into? A ground hex?

I might create a new line of worker, but it is hard to make a new unit that is noticeably different due to the fact that the current worker gets so many bonuses throughout the eras that he is pretty fast by the endgame. If I change this I would likely need to revamp the entire worker system. Maybe someday, but not anytime soon.


Thanks for your feedback. :)
Sorry for late response. I played on huge map, marathon, and had 6 or 7 cities. OK, about the submarine. I was at war with Germany. I told my gauss tank to attack the city. When I did that it asked if I wanted to go to war with Arabia. I said no, and was wondering why. Then I saw the GERMAN city had an ARABIAN submarine in it. The city was not on the shore, so the submarine could not move. I had to either go to war with Arabia or not attack. I like the idea with the new, different types of plants. It will work much better than now. I'm going to go to sleep, but when I wake up I will try out V5, can't wait!

Catastrophe90
Nov 05, 2010, 11:17 PM
Then I saw the GERMAN city had an ARABIAN submarine in it. The city was not on the shore, so the submarine could not move.

Ever tried gifting a Battleship to a land-locked City State? Try it. It's hilarious. The Battleship is stuck on the city tile (can still fire though, so it's a super turret). I wonder what would happen if I gift 2 of them? Hmm....

Also, it's relatively easy to get Industrial/Modern in the 1400s, since you can just plop Academies everywhere, beeline Physics/Calculus/Algebra (I think those are the ones) since they are one after the other and end up with +12 BPT Academies. I can usually get around 5-6 of them (since there are much more specialist slots and Wonders that give GS points) in a science city with National College/Library/University, so that's around +180-216 BPT, which shortens most research times by something around 5-6 turns for each tech.

Decimatus
Nov 06, 2010, 05:10 AM
I have a feeling that your submarine could have been in an ocean tile that graphically appeared as a land tile, but wasn't.

I have only seen these types of bugs happen when I use the tectonics mod for a better map layout, but I am sure they exist in many map mods in addition to the vanilla game.

And of course, there is the ever present graphical anomaly that shows a unit in one hex when it is really next door. Though this doesn't sound like your current problem.


Hitting industrial at 1400 isn't too horrible actually, especially if you blitzed straight to it.

Can you guys give me a good estimate of when you had a majority of the industrial era researched for instance? Same for modern?

Also, I might warn you guys that pumping eras isn't AS beneficial in my mod as it is in Vanilla. Many cases yes, but not all, especially production.

chicadee987
Nov 06, 2010, 10:25 AM
Missile squad info tect says its upgrade to machine gunner but machine gunner cant be upgraded to missile squad.

Buddha2723
Nov 06, 2010, 11:40 AM
A quick prince renaissance game is about to be discussed. And much number crunching on the balance side of things. Also a number of measly to ambitious suggestions. You have been warned.

Having tested through medieval on V4 and knowing the balance was good I started later, with Bismarck and 12 opponents. Renaissance balance was very good with one exception. When facing three cannon with pikeman + longswordsman frontline troops my full health lancers and longswordsman were killed with one shot before getting into action, on flat terrain as well as on the only hill available. If they weren't the weakest nation they would have conquered my nearby city despite my superior army, just because it was within 3 squares of their city with the cannon. I feel like renaissance era wonders should start a gradual increase in wonder cost, so even the best city will not knock down a wonder easily. I think +50% cost in every successive era(i.e. +150% current cost for modern wonders) is about right.

Specific renaissance proposals-Cannon now 2 range(maybe even 1, starts with range) +50% cost 24 Ranged and 16 normal STR(grapeshot was no joke); windmill nerf to 10%, maint. 1; Machine gun-+80% cost, 0-range, starts with range, 30 normal and 20 ranged STR(reasoning=more soldiers died charging MG's than from bombardment, 1 range max so it can never attack ocean vessels, only coastal); new unit- 'no mans land' 10 STR, 1 move(represents barbed wire and mines out in front of machine gun nests and infantry in trenches; guild halls broken, at current cost should be 5% bonuses, lower maint to 0 or 1 compensate. Longswrordsman is way cheaper than musketman, I think 200-250 cost on normal speed is better for both, with a longswordsman's plate armor plus sword more expensive than a musket + musket balls.

Non era specific balance changes-diplomacy can get crazy, and it's a little too easy to get and keep city state allies on normal(prince), so I recommend the following changes to the gift table-1000 gold for 10 influence, 2500 gold for 30, and 5000 for 75. Hard to get but easy to keep early game, harder to steal late, is how I think this will work. Great people are a little too common. Doubling the points they take might be a good fix.

Industrial-Enemy nations were nipping at my heels technologically, but were way behind everywhere, except military in a few cases, at the beginning of this era. Unfortunately no major conflicts occurred from this point on, so only economy tweaks are offered past this point. Major unbalancers seemed to be the hospital-med lab combo, the 30% food building, and oil refinery is badly broken. My production and gold began to climb too fast after filling up my cities with industrial era buildings.

Industrial specific changes-Oil refinery-double intial cost and nerfed to 10% gold/production bonus; food building greater than 10% now give food = maint. cost; hospital and med lab nerfed to 10-20% food kept; production buildings greater than 10%(exc. factory) now gives bonus for a specific unit(i.e. auto plant-tank, shipyard-battleship, etc.) which may need to be up to doubled in cost. The main effect is to make the build much more efficient than the buy for certain units. I would propose a new mathematical system for unit prices to ensure balance and keep armies in groups rather than rivers. At normal speed, a unit should be 100*STR or 150*Ranged STR, modified by +500 per move beyond 2, +200 per range beyond 2, +? for starting promotions/abilities, and further modified at the end by 1.5* for artillery and cavalry, 2* for fighters, and 2.5* missile and bomber(5-10* nukes).

Post-industrial changes-It looks like gold is heading to be a problem. I think multiplying your gold per person by 2.5 and rounding up is the key(i.e. 1 gold per 2 pop is now per 5 pop). For 1 gold per pop and better buildings I think you should change them to higher cost, no maint. buildings, that give gold on a progression, +5, +10, etc.(i.e. cell towers now +10 gold, no maint) I think you should save 1 gold per pop for early nano, and +2 gold per pop for late nano. Hopefully these changes collectively give a more fair game on normal, but going any farther would put the player at a disadvantage when better AI comes along. I will add a few more of the new ideas(not fixes) that I didn't get to here in a new post shortly.

Picture notes: beginning and end demographics for industrial, as well as early industrial map of my Germany and her 10 cities.

Buddha2723
Nov 06, 2010, 01:34 PM
continued...

Forgotten suggestions- 'no mans land' is modeled after anti aircraft guns in that it can't attack, and can intercept 0-1 range away(thin line of aa behind wire); tanks should now have blitz as historically they smashed through barbed wire, then hit MG nests, while infanty cleared the trenches of other infantry. Mass transit and recycling center cost is equal, should nerf mass transit or cheapen recycling. Certain buildings of great benefit(cell towers, drug store) should be up to double the cost of their contemporary counterparts. I think you should double or triple the golden age cost, I had a near perpetual golden age and I didn't micromanage to make sure I had specialist not citizens, so it could have been worse.

For productions sinks pre-currency I recommend building of no benefit, that can be built then sold, in the following order (tech required/name of building/cost of building compared to contemporary buildings)
Mysticism/Bonfire/.5x
Mysticism/Stage/2x
Archery/Stands/3x
Ballistics/Parade Ground/4x
Carriages/Racetrack/5x
Compass/Warehouses/10x

A bigger issue in this mod than in vanilla ciV is the nation powers. In particular Germany, Greece, Ottoman, Songhai, English, French, Arabian, and Aztec are too weak or inconsistent, while the Romans, the Siamese, India, and possible Russia are too powerful.
Recommendations, if at all possible
Germany-+5-10% production in the capital, or gains extra exp. after capturing an encampment
Greece-Non ranged unit with no friendlies around gets +20% STR or +15% STR during golden age
Ottoman-+2 happiness per puppet city
Songhai-1000 gold from barbarian camp or 50% chance 500 + unit
English-half cost great artists or +2 gold per trade route
French-capital gets +20-25% production for wonders or +1 culture per city(or per lux. resource)
Arabian-2 gold per trade route or half cost great merchants or 2x trade mission yield
Aztec-increase current power or -10% maint. costs or specialists 90% unhappiness penalty
Roman-+2 production from wheat and marble or +1 production per luxury resource
Siamese-+1 culture per city or double happiness from lux. resources
India-specialists 90% unhappiness penalty or +1 food from strategic(and/or lux.) resources

Hopefully many of these ideas prove beneficial. Thanks for reading.

chicadee987
Nov 06, 2010, 02:24 PM
Foundry text says it requires 1 iron but takes 2.
Helicopter gunships CAN capture cityes(vanilla bug?)

Decimatus
Nov 07, 2010, 04:42 AM
Missile squad info tect says its upgrade to machine gunner but machine gunner cant be upgraded to missile squad.

Yeah and this really pisses me off. lol Just reached that point in my test game and confirmed. I couldn't see anything especially wrong in the code, so I am going to have to dig some more.

Foundry text says it requires 1 iron but takes 2.
Helicopter gunships CAN capture cityes(vanilla bug?)

I noticed this as well. I will probably change it to 1, and add more iron buildings at some point.

I haven't given gunships that ability so I would assume Vanilla. Never tried to capture with a gunship in either version yet though. Anyone know?

Thanks for the reports. :)


Having tested through medieval on V4 and knowing the balance was good I started later, with Bismarck and 12 opponents. Renaissance balance was very good with one exception. When facing three cannon with pikeman + longswordsman frontline troops my full health lancers and longswordsman were killed with one shot before getting into action, on flat terrain as well as on the only hill available. If they weren't the weakest nation they would have conquered my nearby city despite my superior army, just because it was within 3 squares of their city with the cannon. I feel like renaissance era wonders should start a gradual increase in wonder cost, so even the best city will not knock down a wonder easily. I think +50% cost in every successive era(i.e. +150% current cost for modern wonders) is about right.

I might drop the cannons a bit so that they almost kill those units instead of outright kill them. Do you know if the cannons had any promotions or great generals?

I will take a look at renaissance wonders. I did increase build costs(for wonders and buildings) post renaissance, so let me know what you think for modern and above.

Specific renaissance proposals-Cannon now 2 range(maybe even 1, starts with range) +50% cost 24 Ranged and 16 normal STR(grapeshot was no joke); windmill nerf to 10%, maint. 1; Machine gun-+80% cost, 0-range, starts with range, 30 normal and 20 ranged STR(reasoning=more soldiers died charging MG's than from bombardment, 1 range max so it can never attack ocean vessels, only coastal); new unit- 'no mans land' 10 STR, 1 move(represents barbed wire and mines out in front of machine gun nests and infantry in trenches; guild halls broken, at current cost should be 5% bonuses, lower maint to 0 or 1 compensate. Longswrordsman is way cheaper than musketman, I think 200-250 cost on normal speed is better for both, with a longswordsman's plate armor plus sword more expensive than a musket + musket balls.

Non era specific balance changes-diplomacy can get crazy, and it's a little too easy to get and keep city state allies on normal(prince), so I recommend the following changes to the gift table-1000 gold for 10 influence, 2500 gold for 30, and 5000 for 75. Hard to get but easy to keep early game, harder to steal late, is how I think this will work. Great people are a little too common. Doubling the points they take might be a good fix.

Industrial-Enemy nations were nipping at my heels technologically, but were way behind everywhere, except military in a few cases, at the beginning of this era. Unfortunately no major conflicts occurred from this point on, so only economy tweaks are offered past this point. Major unbalancers seemed to be the hospital-med lab combo, the 30% food building, and oil refinery is badly broken. My production and gold began to climb too fast after filling up my cities with industrial era buildings.

Industrial specific changes-Oil refinery-double intial cost and nerfed to 10% gold/production bonus; food building greater than 10% now give food = maint. cost; hospital and med lab nerfed to 10-20% food kept; production buildings greater than 10%(exc. factory) now gives bonus for a specific unit(i.e. auto plant-tank, shipyard-battleship, etc.) which may need to be up to doubled in cost. The main effect is to make the build much more efficient than the buy for certain units. I would propose a new mathematical system for unit prices to ensure balance and keep armies in groups rather than rivers. At normal speed, a unit should be 100*STR or 150*Ranged STR, modified by +500 per move beyond 2, +200 per range beyond 2, +? for starting promotions/abilities, and further modified at the end by 1.5* for artillery and cavalry, 2* for fighters, and 2.5* missile and bomber(5-10* nukes).

Post-industrial changes-It looks like gold is heading to be a problem. I think multiplying your gold per person by 2.5 and rounding up is the key(i.e. 1 gold per 2 pop is now per 5 pop). For 1 gold per pop and better buildings I think you should change them to higher cost, no maint. buildings, that give gold on a progression, +5, +10, etc.(i.e. cell towers now +10 gold, no maint) I think you should save 1 gold per pop for early nano, and +2 gold per pop for late nano. Hopefully these changes collectively give a more fair game on normal, but going any farther would put the player at a disadvantage when better AI comes along. I will add a few more of the new ideas(not fixes) that I didn't get to here in a new post shortly.

Picture notes: beginning and end demographics for industrial, as well as early industrial map of my Germany and her 10 cities.

Some good feedback here. Not sure if I have time to respond point by point, but I might come back tomorrow or after to respond. I will definitely take some of these things into advisement, and the numbers are good for reference. :)

Some things I will say though. Certain things like diplomacy, city states, policies, etc are surely out of balance right now, but I won't really get to them until I settle some other things that I am working on and get to balancing them. They are on my mind though. :)

Also, if you see a vast increase in everything beginning in the industrial era it is because I want it to actually be an industrial revolution and not just another era you plod through.

That said, I do still have quite a lot of balancing to do, so keep the feedback coming. :)

ikillu64
Nov 07, 2010, 06:48 AM
Ever tried gifting a Battleship to a land-locked City State? Try it. It's hilarious. The Battleship is stuck on the city tile (can still fire though, so it's a super turret). I wonder what would happen if I gift 2 of them? Hmm....
LOL! I have never tried that. I'm going to do it right now except with DDX destryers MUHAHHAHAHAHA!

chicadee987
Nov 07, 2010, 07:55 AM
Im currently in digital era. Happiness level is near 1k and my turnly income is 30k(during golden ages which Im most likely to spend rest of my game) after spendings. Capitals size is now 60. AI should be tweaked to favour city growth now as there are so many building that give population based bonuses. Game was rather balanced(if mot counted the issues which have been mentioned before in the thread) until reneisance where I was able to make technological run away.

ikillu64
Nov 07, 2010, 08:05 AM
I started a game in the digital era (its my favorite), and when i started I had 40000 gold, but I was losing 2700 gold a round. There was no way I could start making money before it went down to 0. I really like the digital era, but this ruins it.

Buddha2723
Nov 07, 2010, 09:57 AM
I might drop the cannons a bit so that they almost kill those units instead of outright kill them. Do you know if the cannons had any promotions or great generals?

I will take a look at renaissance wonders. I did increase build costs(for wonders and buildings) post renaissance, so let me know what you think for modern and above.

Not sure on promotions, but there was definitely no general with them.

My top 3 cities(between 45 and 55 pop, top production was around 700) were finishing modern wonders in 3-5 turns(on quick so 6-10 normal speed), not unreasonable, but I felt it was too fast. Mid-modern was where time ended my game :(, so I can't say beyond that era.

Really there is little in the larger game play that is broken, (the balance in some areas is only cracked :)) if you look at my GNP and manufacturing increases, from an early industrial to early modern, perhaps an era or an era and a half total, and it's not unreasonable, but I definitely outpaced the AI. So it's really just a question on whether you want a better challenge on normal, or whether you want people to crank the difficulty. I do hope to see tanks blitzing over barbed wire, clearing a path for the infantry so that they don't get hung up on wire and cut to ribbons by MG nests, like the way WW1 era warfare played out. I might just even make a new WWII scenario if you did something like that :).

And, btw, gunships have conquered cities in my vanilla ciV games. Guess they still haven't figured out a fix.

Buddha2723
Nov 07, 2010, 10:03 AM
I started a game in the digital era (its my favorite), and when i started I had 40000 gold, but I was losing 2700 gold a round. There was no way I could start making money before it went down to 0. I really like the digital era, but this ruins it.

Did you try selling the more expensive, non-financial buildings in your city?

ikillu64
Nov 07, 2010, 03:06 PM
Did you try selling the more expensive, non-financial buildings in your city?

No, I guess not. I will do that and see if it helps.

Decimatus
Nov 07, 2010, 09:58 PM
I started a game in the digital era (its my favorite), and when i started I had 40000 gold, but I was losing 2700 gold a round. There was no way I could start making money before it went down to 0. I really like the digital era, but this ruins it.

Yeah I tried to give enough gold to let you get on your feet, but I guess it wasn't enough.

You can also try to get your workers building gold enhancing improvements, and of course make sure your citizens aren't working specialist slots when they should be working the tiles.

Im currently in digital era. Happiness level is near 1k and my turnly income is 30k(during golden ages which Im most likely to spend rest of my game) after spendings. Capitals size is now 60. AI should be tweaked to favour city growth now as there are so many building that give population based bonuses. Game was rather balanced(if mot counted the issues which have been mentioned before in the thread) until reneisance where I was able to make technological run away.

How many cities?

I want to tweak the unhappiness per city and per pop, but it is hard to do that without wrecking the early game at the same time.

I may begin to introduce buildings that also increase unhappiness.

I tried to tweak the flavors a bit to get the AI to build aqueducts and sewers, I will try and increase that and give more flavor on the hospital/med lab.

Not sure on promotions, but there was definitely no general with them.

My top 3 cities(between 45 and 55 pop, top production was around 700) were finishing modern wonders in 3-5 turns(on quick so 6-10 normal speed), not unreasonable, but I felt it was too fast. Mid-modern was where time ended my game , so I can't say beyond that era.

Really there is little in the larger game play that is broken, (the balance in some areas is only cracked ) if you look at my GNP and manufacturing increases, from an early industrial to early modern, perhaps an era or an era and a half total, and it's not unreasonable, but I definitely outpaced the AI. So it's really just a question on whether you want a better challenge on normal, or whether you want people to crank the difficulty. I do hope to see tanks blitzing over barbed wire, clearing a path for the infantry so that they don't get hung up on wire and cut to ribbons by MG nests, like the way WW1 era warfare played out. I might just even make a new WWII scenario if you did something like that .

And, btw, gunships have conquered cities in my vanilla ciV games. Guess they still haven't figured out a fix.

Sounds like costs are better, but could perhaps use a little more tweaking on the upside.

You ran out of time in modern era? Most of my tests have shown that progression is a little fast, not too slow. But test on standard most games.

Yeah I test all my games on prince, and I am also seeing the breakaway happen near renaissance. I am pretty sure it is because the AI stops growing as fast as the player around this time. I will continue tweaking this area to see if I can get them to grow.

One problem that may also contribute, is that the AI really goes for the specialist slots. If this is the core problem, then it may be tough to fix, but I will look into it.

chicadee987
Nov 08, 2010, 07:35 AM
How many cities?

I want to tweak the unhappiness per city and per pop, but it is hard to do that without wrecking the early game at the same time.

I may begin to introduce buildings that also increase unhappiness.

I tried to tweak the flavors a bit to get the AI to build aqueducts and sewers, I will try and increase that and give more flavor on the hospital/med lab.

I have something like 110 cities and 1/6 are annexed w/o courthouse. Also some of cities are still puppets as Im getting lazy with all the makroing(game is getting very slow).

danielshannon
Nov 08, 2010, 03:42 PM
I’d like to suggest some new Wonders and a new Building for your mod. Please let me know what you think about these basic ideas...

WONDERS

Bollywood
Effect: Unhappiness from number of Citizens halved
+3 culture +3 Great Artist
Prerequisite tech: Globalization

Ishtar Gate
Effect: Defensive Buildings 25% more effective
+3 Culture +1 great engineer
Prerequisite tech: Masonry

Saladin citadel
Effect: Defensive Buildings 25% more effective
+2 culture +1 Great Engineer
Prerequisite tech: Fundamentalism

Cluny Abbey
Effect: Culture cost of adopting new policies reduced by 25%
+3 culture +1 great artist
Prerequisite tech: Theology

Zuiderzee Works
Effect: +2 production from water tiles worked by this city
+1 Culture +4 Great Engineer
Prerequisite tech: Electricity
Must be built on the coast

The Motherland Calls
Effect: +50% Great General Generation
+5 Culture +2 Great Artist
Prerequisite tech: Socialism

Peterhof Palace
Effect: +25% Culture generation throughout your empire
+5 Culture +1 great artist
Prerequisite tech: Nationalism

Channel Tunnel
Effect: +1 production, +1 Science, and +1 Gold for every plot worked by this city
+2 Culture +2 Great Engineer
Prerequisite tech: Globalization
City must be built on a coast

Burj Khalifa
Effect: Empire enters a golden age
+2 culture +3 great merchant
Prerequisite tech: Globalization

Empire State Building
Effect: +25% Gold from Trade Routes
+1 Culture +3 Great Merchant
Prerequisite tech: Corporation

Golden Gate Bridge
Effect: Empire enters a golden age
+1 culture +4 great engineer
Prerequisite tech: Combustion


New Buildings
Cinema
Effect: + 2 happiness + 2 Culture
+1 gold for every 2 citizens in the city
Prerequisite tech: Mass Media

ikillu64
Nov 08, 2010, 06:03 PM
I have a few ideas for new techs.

After advanced lasers you could have plasma generation. This would lead to plasma artillery? Then have Plasma fields which then you would be able to build a plasma force field which is resistant to everything, but satellite missiles. Which I will explain later. With satellite missile it will absorb 75% of damage.

After satellites you could research satellite weaponry which would lead to satellite missile. It would do about 300 damage, but leave no fallout. It would also have unlimited range.

These are just some ideas I thought of quickly, but there they are.

Decimatus
Nov 08, 2010, 11:08 PM
I have something like 110 cities and 1/6 are annexed w/o courthouse. Also some of cities are still puppets as Im getting lazy with all the makroing(game is getting very slow).

110, nice. Did you go ICS from the start or is that just from conquering AI after you colonized your area?

I have kind of decided not to do anything too major with happiness until I implement governments. Once I implement governments I will have a lot more room to increase the base unhappiness from population and from cities. If I did it right now you would all hate me. :)

I’d like to suggest some new Wonders and a new Building for your mod. Please let me know what you think about these basic ideas...

I actually have quite a few of those on my list. :) At some point I will add them in. There are a lot of wonders that I want to add to the optional tech pages so I will probably hold off until I get that started.

I think the Ishtar Gate is already represented by the Walls of Babylon, since it was a part of the walls. Still might add it though.

The channel tunnel and golden gate would be great, but I kind of want to hold off until we can actually make underwater tunnels and bridges over large bodies of water.

I have a few ideas for new techs.

After advanced lasers you could have plasma generation. This would lead to plasma artillery? Then have Plasma fields which then you would be able to build a plasma force field which is resistant to everything, but satellite missiles. Which I will explain later. With satellite missile it will absorb 75% of damage.

After satellites you could research satellite weaponry which would lead to satellite missile. It would do about 300 damage, but leave no fallout. It would also have unlimited range.

These are just some ideas I thought of quickly, but there they are.

I thought of going Plasma Weaponry, but I opted instead for Particle Beams. Artillery will probably continue to be based on rail gun technology(but maybe I could use Plasma tech just for it), and tanks and others will move to particle beams. I was going to go with lasers, but I think I will keep them as general quick reaction defensive tech while their big brother takes over in the killing department.

I am not sure what the new missile will be, but I don't think it will be related to satellites though in the future you will definitely be able to station it in space.

Most likely, I think I am going to begin implementing units that could easily make the transition to the space layer when/if it becomes available.

Space Units
Space Bombers
Space Fighters
Orbital Strike Marines (Going to require a unique paradrop mechanic)
Some kind of long range particle beam overload missile

There are more space based units I want to implement, but those will actually require a space layer, whereas the above can do without in the meantime.

Earth Units
Fusion tanks (Hover Tanks)
Leviathans (Big, slow, and extremely powerful hover tanks)
New Sub, perhaps doubling as an aircraft carrier.
New Cruiser/Destroyer combo unit.
New Gunship
New Artillery
New basic infantry
New ranged infantry
New Mecha units
Perhaps some other specialty units.


On thing that I really need for many of the new units is the ability to hover over both water and land without requiring embarkation. Not sure how deep I need to go to change this, but if anyone knows how, or knows a guy who knows a guy, point me in the right direction. :)

strategyonly
Nov 08, 2010, 11:19 PM
I think the Ishtar Gate is already represented by the Walls of Babylon, since it was a part of the walls. Still might add it though.

Is it going to have Lua changes also, just like they did in Civ IV (Python):confused:

Decimatus
Nov 08, 2010, 11:29 PM
Is it going to have Lua changes also, just like they did in Civ IV (Python):confused:

Is the Ishtar gate going to have them?

Or the whole project?

strategyonly
Nov 08, 2010, 11:35 PM
Is the Ishtar gate going to have them?

Or the whole project?

They haven't put anything out about Lua yet have they? But i was just (for now) asking about the Gate? But then the whole game i hope has alot of Lua changes/additions.

Decimatus
Nov 09, 2010, 12:07 AM
People are all over LUA. Tons of mods have them. Mine will have some soon. Right after I finish the NanoTech era I will be adding multiple tech pages which is a LUA file or two.

There are mods that use LUA for all kinds of things. UI changes, buildings that can produce resources, etc.

I am still not sure what you are asking about the Gate. I know it was in Civ 4, but technically the Ishtar Gate is part of the Walls of Babylon which exists in Civ 5. But the gate is probably good enough to add as a separate entity anyway.

ikillu64
Nov 09, 2010, 05:12 AM
On thing that I really need for many of the new units is the ability to hover over both water and land without requiring embarkation. Not sure how deep I need to go to change this, but if anyone knows how, or knows a guy who knows a guy, point me in the right direction. :)

<CanMoveAllTerrain>true</CanMoveAllTerrain>

That should do it, but it would also allow the unit to move on mountains too which would be cool, but I don't know if you would want that. By that time we probably will be able to, but maybe not.

chicadee987
Nov 09, 2010, 10:49 AM
110, nice. Did you go ICS from the start or is that just from conquering AI after you colonized your area?

Rapid expansion and stable growth untill the aztecs tried to eat my maritine ally(only took few cities cos I didnt really feel like fighting). When Alexander tried to conquer rest of aztecs I attacked him and as he refused to peace I had to keep going. By then I found the other continent which was practicly owned by americans so I decided to eat up atztec, songhai and persia. Later I also decided to eat germans cos Id rather be the one to be the offender than defender against americas(which is what Im about to do now). Too bad that game is so slow that I dont really feel like continuing. Fun game thou :)

btw. Whats ICG? :-p
Would it be helpful if I made a gameplay diary from my next game? If so, Im likely to begin next monday because Im rather busy atm with my main project which is commonly called ´life´. Can you estime v6 release date?

Buddha2723
Nov 09, 2010, 10:56 AM
Here are all the files required for a mod with many of the balance changes I wanted. I am about to test it out, but my map successfully loaded with my capital(Athens) having an aircraft plant and an industrial shipyard, so something is going right.

It's only letting me upload 3 of the 4 files, so I'll save the new map til it's tested. I copied the xml files to text and renamed them with an additional B2 at the end. It's a special tweak for super epic speed, day to day or two turns a week type speed. This is for modern or digital starts, and especially for an updated version of USvsWorld I just created. I'll post soon how it turns out.

Buddha2723
Nov 09, 2010, 12:33 PM
I'll post soon how it turns out.

So far so good. Here is a mod file with the map--which includes mod specific buildings already in certain cities at the scenario start--if you want to check it out, or use the modern civs as a testing platform for balance.

Decimatus
Nov 09, 2010, 08:57 PM
<CanMoveAllTerrain>true</CanMoveAllTerrain>

That should do it, but it would also allow the unit to move on mountains too which would be cool, but I don't know if you would want that. By that time we probably will be able to, but maybe not.

Nice, I will try that out with Gunships first and see how it works. Having the fusion tanks move over mountains won't be the best result, but I definitely want them moving over water without embarking.

Rapid expansion and stable growth untill the aztecs tried to eat my maritine ally(only took few cities cos I didnt really feel like fighting). When Alexander tried to conquer rest of aztecs I attacked him and as he refused to peace I had to keep going. By then I found the other continent which was practicly owned by americans so I decided to eat up atztec, songhai and persia. Later I also decided to eat germans cos Id rather be the one to be the offender than defender against americas(which is what Im about to do now). Too bad that game is so slow that I dont really feel like continuing. Fun game thou

btw. Whats ICG? :-p
Would it be helpful if I made a gameplay diary from my next game? If so, Im likely to begin next monday because Im rather busy atm with my main project which is commonly called ´life´. Can you estime v6 release date?

Playing on a huge map I presume?

I love huge maps, but yeah their biggest problem is that at some point there is so much to do just to pass your next turn that sometimes you get tired of it.

ICS is infinite city sprawl. Setting cities 2-3 tiles apart covering your lands.

You don't need to keep a dairy, I probably won't read giant walls of texts that are way too detailed for my needs. :p Just jot down any bugs, possible balance issues, and perhaps some good ideas here and there. :)

I estimate V6 to be coming 15 November. I fly home 16 November(I hope), so it better be ready hehe. That gives me today, plus 2 more days off work to try and pump it out.

I have most of the techs I want to see in place for Nanotech. Now I am going to begin working on the buildings and units.

Here are all the files required for a mod with many of the balance changes I wanted. I am about to test it out, but my map successfully loaded with my capital(Athens) having an aircraft plant and an industrial shipyard, so something is going right.

It's only letting me upload 3 of the 4 files, so I'll save the new map til it's tested. I copied the xml files to text and renamed them with an additional B2 at the end. It's a special tweak for super epic speed, day to day or two turns a week type speed. This is for modern or digital starts, and especially for an updated version of USvsWorld I just created. I'll post soon how it turns out.

A USvsWorld scenario sounds like fun, though I don't really have time to try it out.

chicadee987
Nov 10, 2010, 05:19 AM
Playing on a huge map I presume?

I love huge maps, but yeah their biggest problem is that at some point there is so much to do just to pass your next turn that sometimes you get tired of it.

ICS is infinite city sprawl. Setting cities 2-3 tiles apart covering your lands.

Then I mostly did ICS as citycount directly leads to a stronger empire. I really dont see it as profitable to have early wars in this mod so I dont get left behind in tech. Tech is much more related to empire growth than extra city count before middle ages(happiness-> growth-> bigger bonus from libraries and so on). Maybe I should try playing for early conquests at some point to see how it goes..

Buddha2723
Nov 10, 2010, 11:09 AM
A USvsWorld scenario sounds like fun, though I don't really have time to try it out.

No problem with me uploading this knock off version of your project when it's finished? Posted with full credit to you of course.

chicadee987
Nov 10, 2010, 01:49 PM
A USvsWorld scenario sounds like fun, though I don't really have time to try it out.

quite offtopic, but even so I wanted to say that I was got idea of korean war scenario few days ago. I think it could be quite a lot fun since it happened in rather small area and thus could be properly presented in huge map :-p

Decimatus
Nov 10, 2010, 02:13 PM
Yeah I am fine with you using this mod in your scenarios if you give credit. :)

Then I mostly did ICS as citycount directly leads to a stronger empire. I really dont see it as profitable to have early wars in this mod so I dont get left behind in tech. Tech is much more related to empire growth than extra city count before middle ages(happiness-> growth-> bigger bonus from libraries and so on). Maybe I should try playing for early conquests at some point to see how it goes..

Wars in this mod will really lag you behind your other competitors if you let them drag on, which is good.

Personally I usually go for a 5-6 hex spread in my cities. Sometimes I even try out 9-12, and managed to remain viable in the game.

danielshannon
Nov 11, 2010, 02:12 PM
I've got a few more suggestions for wonders:

Henry J. Kaiser Shipyards
+25% production of Naval Units in this city
+1 culture + 3 engineer points
must be built on the cost
prerequisite tech: Combustion

Uralvagonzavod
+25% production of armored vehicles in this city
+1 culture +3 engineer points
prerequisite tech: Combustion

Boeing Aircraft Plant
+25% production of air units in this city
+1 culture +3 engineer
prerequisite tech: flight

Decimatus
Nov 12, 2010, 04:38 AM
I've got a few more suggestions for wonders:

Henry J. Kaiser Shipyards
+25% production of Naval Units in this city
+1 culture + 3 engineer points
must be built on the cost
prerequisite tech: Combustion

Uralvagonzavod
+25% production of armored vehicles in this city
+1 culture +3 engineer points
prerequisite tech: Combustion

Boeing Aircraft Plant
+25% production of air units in this city
+1 culture +3 engineer
prerequisite tech: flight

I like the ideas, but I think they might be more applicable for future corporate buildings that I want to implement.

I will put them in my notepad for future reference though. :)

Azazell
Nov 12, 2010, 06:53 AM
When we may expect religions in this mod?

Decimatus
Nov 13, 2010, 03:32 AM
When we may expect religions in this mod?

Sometime after FiresForever finishes his multi-page social policy mod. :)

After he publishes it I will have to spend some time implementing everything. Not sure how long I will need exactly, but it shouldn't be too long.

I give it a month, so maybe V7-8.

Azazell
Nov 13, 2010, 06:02 AM
Decimatus --> You are the creator this mod? You nick in the forums 2k is Procylon?

Decimatus
Nov 13, 2010, 05:33 PM
Decimatus --> You are the creator this mod? You nick in the forums 2k is Procylon?

Yep. :)

Azazell
Nov 14, 2010, 03:11 AM
Yep. :)

Aa :P I wrote do you in the Forums 2K about polish language :P. My nick - Caviez :P.

OK. I waiting for religions :)

Decimatus
Nov 14, 2010, 03:46 AM
Cool, did you get your problem fixed?

Azazell
Nov 14, 2010, 04:15 AM
Cool, did you get your problem fixed?

WOW now is great! I change <language en_US> for <language_PL_PL> and is working! I don`t see any tags and NOW! working polish letter -->

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6969/clipboard01ez.jpg

Thx again! Probably you fixed something with languages in the v5, right? But in older version doesn`t work.
Maybe I translated all text in your mods :).

When release v6?

Decimatus
Nov 14, 2010, 04:24 AM
WOW now is great! I change <language en_US> for <language_PL_PL> and is working! I don`t see any tags and NOW! working polish letter -->

Thx again! Probably you fixed something with languages in the v5, right? But in older version doesn`t work.
Maybe I translated all text in your mods :).

When release v6?

I didn't change anything specific with the language file, so I am not sure what fixed it, but great! :)

V6 will be maybe 18-24 hours from now. I have all the Nanotech Era techs, buildings, wonders, and 6 units ready. I have about 6-7 more units to create, and then a list of bugs and tweaks to go through, and I have to integrate some wonder pictures someone made for me.

So, another hour of work tonight, and maybe 6-10 hours of work in the morning, and it will be out. :)

Azazell
Nov 14, 2010, 04:49 AM
I didn't change anything specific with the language file, so I am not sure what fixed it, but great! :)

V6 will be maybe 18-24 hours from now. I have all the Nanotech Era techs, buildings, wonders, and 6 units ready. I have about 6-7 more units to create, and then a list of bugs and tweaks to go through, and I have to integrate some wonder pictures someone made for me.

So, another hour of work tonight, and maybe 6-10 hours of work in the morning, and it will be out. :)

Wow super! :) Maybe you try improve AI?

I dream of a game - your mod + InfoAddict + Balance mods (Civilization II, Terrain Improvements and Unofficial Patch. How do you think this will work?

Decimatus
Nov 14, 2010, 05:03 AM
Wow super! :) Maybe you try improve AI?

I dream of a game - your mod + InfoAddict + Balance mods (Civilization II, Terrain Improvements and Unofficial Patch. How do you think this will work?

Info Addict will work with mine, but the Balance Mods most likely won't since they change much of the same things that my mod changes.

Maybe hit the AI at some point, but it is a bit further down the list. Waiting to see more AI work from other modders that may be more experienced in it.

Decimatus
Nov 14, 2010, 05:46 AM
Btw, don't expect anything crazy with religion. At first it will be as simple as 1 policy block with 5 sub blocks for each religion. I will try to add more functionality as time goes on, and will try and pull any cool mechanics into the game as I see them. Starting out though, it will mostly be flavor and bonuses.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 14, 2010, 12:10 PM
First Play through:
Random Civ: ended as Arabia
Map: Pangaea
Size: Small
Dificulty: Prince
Speed: Standard

Custom Rules:
Win conditions: Domination
No CS's
9 Civs
Random resources
No Goody Huts
Raging Barbarians
Random Sea Level
Random temperance (forgot what this was called.. either cold, temperate, arid)

Bugs:
There is no graphic for the Ziggurat of Marduk

Notes:
I have lots of flood planes; so crazy food growth.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd252/YitoGraft/Civ%204/city.jpg

Decimatus
Nov 14, 2010, 06:39 PM
Not so much a bug as a lack of graphics for new content. :p

I should have a number of wonder splash images for V6 though. :)

And graphics for everything else will come as I get them.

sephirothmana
Nov 14, 2010, 07:05 PM
Hey!

I tried a whole game with your mod combined with the City-State Diplomacy mod and it works really great! I performed a military victory with Russia, on Prince with Terra map. This was a really long game (maybe 15 hours) and I reach only the industrial era (standard size).

I noticed a bug (or maybe it is not one) with Russia: when you are building a... (damned I forgot the name of the builing) the one that is using Iron to enhance production :) like the forge, more than one iron is used per building, this is due to the bonus of Russia to get double iron. Nevertheless, shouldn't it consume only one resource? This is not a big deal because you can find a LOT of iron in this mod.

Another point: the AI didn't at all tried to reach the new continent in the Terra map, even at the end of industrial era (this is when I won).

I recommand a lot to play this mod combined with the City-State Diplomacy mod, because it enhances the city-state strategy and, when you declare a war, you declare it many times to numerous city-states. It is also a good way to spend the large amount of money you get during the game (the minimum to spend on each city-state is 2000 gold)

Why not combining your mod with the DonMartyMod?? Just to render the game even longer with early era? :)

I'm expecting a new update soon, I have great hopes with your mod, keep on!

adecoy95
Nov 14, 2010, 10:43 PM
have you changed the ai in this mod? i am fighting seas of immortals on prince difficulty and all the ai are way more advanced than me tech wise, even tho i focus on research/economy

Decimatus
Nov 14, 2010, 11:01 PM
Hey!

I tried a whole game with your mod combined with the City-State Diplomacy mod and it works really great! I performed a military victory with Russia, on Prince with Terra map. This was a really long game (maybe 15 hours) and I reach only the industrial era (standard size).

I noticed a bug (or maybe it is not one) with Russia: when you are building a... (damned I forgot the name of the builing) the one that is using Iron to enhance production :) like the forge, more than one iron is used per building, this is due to the bonus of Russia to get double iron. Nevertheless, shouldn't it consume only one resource? This is not a big deal because you can find a LOT of iron in this mod.

Another point: the AI didn't at all tried to reach the new continent in the Terra map, even at the end of industrial era (this is when I won).

I recommand a lot to play this mod combined with the City-State Diplomacy mod, because it enhances the city-state strategy and, when you declare a war, you declare it many times to numerous city-states. It is also a good way to spend the large amount of money you get during the game (the minimum to spend on each city-state is 2000 gold)

Why not combining your mod with the DonMartyMod?? Just to render the game even longer with early era? :)

I'm expecting a new update soon, I have great hopes with your mod, keep on!

Glad you like it. :)

The bug is with foundry's Help Text, which will be fixed for V6.

I hear the AI is going to try and colonize other continents when they patch next, so we will see how it works then. AI in general is probably something I will wait for the devs or other modders to try and fix before I do anything drastic with it myself.

Once I finish some core aspects of this project, such as finishing out the tech tree(which is almost done) and adding in new social polices and whatnot, I may begin to try and combine some other good mods with this one. Until then, there are a lot of aspects of the game that I don't currently tough such as city states, AI, diplomacy, social policies, and some others, so you are more than welcome to enable mods that tinker with these and let me know how well it works. :)

I am doing some last minute bug fixing and tweaking, and then I will launch V6.

have you changed the ai in this mod? i am fighting seas of immortals on prince difficulty and all the ai are way more advanced than me tech wise, even tho i focus on research/economy

Nothing beyond flavors and unit AI types.

Did you fight any big wars? You will often fall behind if you are fighting wars while other AI are free to build in peace. Also what era?

adecoy95
Nov 14, 2010, 11:53 PM
Did you fight any big wars? You will often fall behind if you are fighting wars while other AI are free to build in peace. Also what era?

no, it was them that started the war, i had like 8 spearmen when they declared war and my military advisor was screaming that i was going to get wiped off the face of the earth, next thing i knew i was being overrun.

also, they entered classical era WAY before i could, like.. crazy sooner.

it was the beginning era.

Decimatus
Nov 15, 2010, 01:06 AM
no, it was them that started the war, i had like 8 spearmen when they declared war and my military advisor was screaming that i was going to get wiped off the face of the earth, next thing i knew i was being overrun.

also, they entered classical era WAY before i could, like.. crazy sooner.

it was the beginning era.

Who started the war is irrelevant. Fighting wars and building lots of units means you aren't building buildings that other AI who are not fighting wars get to build. So if there are AI that are at peace somewhere while you are bogged down in a war, they have an advantage.

Just because the enter classical doesn't mean they are ahead of you. It just means that they went right for it. You probably had more techs than they did. You only need 1 tech in the next era to be in that era. And in my mod, being in the next era isn't as helpful as it is in vanilla.

Decimatus
Nov 15, 2010, 02:44 AM
V6 is live! See the OP for details! :)

Btw, longer download this time. We now have 6.6mb of wonder splash images. :)

Decimatus
Nov 15, 2010, 05:18 AM
Let me know how the new slave unit works out for your guys. I am not completely sure how the multiplier on it works. I also want to know whether you feel a need to cover your land in slaves just to get to those wonders first.... :p

Right now, turn ~10 or so the slave gives about +20 production. Turn ~20 it seems to be +30. I know the engineer eventually becomes useless on the bigger wonders, so I am hoping that the slave hits that point as well, though much earlier since it's multiplier and base are much lower:

Great Engineer:
Base: 300
Multiplier: 30

Slave:
Base: 10
Multiplier: 5

I will see about expanding the slave system over time, including of course creating invisible slavers that can ransack cities. :) But yeah that is pretty far off.

Until then, let me know what you think about this system.

Should I add a food requirement when building slaves(similar to settler)?
Increase/decrease their cost?
Increase/decrease their hurry mechanic?
Should I make the slave a unique unit to those civs who take a certain slavery policy(when I implement them)?

Decimatus
Nov 15, 2010, 07:34 AM
So I am in the shower when I realized I forgot to do something....

Many of the help text strings for the techs for the new nanotech era do not have any info and probably show just the string name. Also, many other tech help lines do not have all of the info for what they give you, mostly pertaining to units, but also some wonders and buildings.

It was one of the last things on my list of things to do since I was still adding units and buildings. Just forgot to go back and sweep through them with everything that I added.

All(or at least most) of the tech quotes and civpedia entries should be there. Also, the units, wonders, and buildings should have all their correct text info.

TL;DR If you see any broken Tech Help strings(IE "This tech lets you build these things") in the NanoTech era, ignore them for now. Please report any other bugged/broken strings that do not fall into that category. :)

Decimatus
Nov 15, 2010, 07:42 AM
I have now added a "Known Issues" block to the original post. If you find a bug not listed there, I would love to hear about it. I probably haven't even listed all the bugs that I have heard about(just the ones I remember right now), so please let me know if you see something in V6 that is not on that list.

chicadee987
Nov 15, 2010, 11:17 AM
V6 crashes when I try to start the game. Tried to download it from alternate place but it didnt help :(

chrome-rome
Nov 15, 2010, 11:22 AM
Decimatus, I've said it before and I will say it again: I absolutely love this mod. I have downloaded v6 and will be playing shortly. Thanks for all the hard work!!

EDIT: My version crashes as well :(

Decimatus
Nov 15, 2010, 02:55 PM
Gah, I have always wanted to avoid this.

I have a couple hours to work on the issue before I fly out, so I will see what I can do.

Decimatus
Nov 15, 2010, 06:24 PM
It seems like I can't fix this issue before my flight leaves, so I am de-listing V6 on the mod hub. It should now show V5.

Also, I am going to leave a V7 up on the Source Forge link. So, if it does work for anyone, or better yet, if anyone has any insight as to why it is crashing for some people, it is there for your perusal. :)

Hopefully when I get to Seattle someone will have found an un-dotted i or uncrossed T and I can quickly get you guys an update. :)

LordTC
Nov 16, 2010, 05:10 AM
I think I'd want to be careful about choosing particular countries Brands for Wonders in the modern era. I think it really hurts immersion when I'm playing as say Germany and the wonder I build is Boeing rather than say Messerschmidt. With ancient Era wonders we're careful about this. It's the Labyrinth rather than the Minoan Labyrinth, etc..

In terms of game balance I've noticed the following:

Much of the social policy tree needs rewriting. Things like +1 hammer in every city or +1 food in your capital are practically a joke now.

Golden Ages need something to change +1 of each type per tile doesn't work out so well when you have so many tiles.

You may want to consider returning the scout bonus for terrain, or making it cost comparable to a warrior and have an extra movement or something. The main issue is that forest starts are extremely painful in terms of exploring.

It may be worth exploring start options like guaranteeing every civ starts on a river, since rivers are so absurdly powerful in this version of the game (+1/+1/+1 is absurd).

Horsemen might need to be weakened given that they now require 2 techs to achieve instead of 3 and both of those techs are awesome. Animal Husbandry reveals a strategic resource, and gives your workers something awesome to do, and Horseback Riding has a unit and two buildings one of which gives happiness which is a key thing early.

I think settler cost needs to be watched closely, largely because of issues with food turning into production.

I've also noticed that settling on a flood plain turned it into a desert in one of my games (I think this is a bug), and that wheat can be placed on desert tiles, which isn't a big deal but it might effect emersion for some people (It's kind of a WTF moment when you're scouting this inhospitable desert and all of a sudden in the middle of this lifeless terrain there is wheat).

It might be necessary to rewrite some of the civ abilities, China (Gold is much more important than other resources in this version and Paper Maker gets much more powerful) and India get significant boosts IMHO (Big cities are far more achievable with the newer food ratios).

One unfortunate side effect of the huge bonuses to food and production that the tiles get is that the map ends up getting coated in those ugly trading posts.

LordTC
Nov 16, 2010, 08:48 AM
The Early Game needs a fair amount of tuning, It's almost impossible to have a reasonable happiness level early on because the population growth gets out of control. This can be a potential big issue because the AI gets to ignore happiness, while the human player may end up in a really awkward place because of it.

Buddha2723
Nov 16, 2010, 10:48 AM
It may be worth exploring start options like guaranteeing every civ starts on a river, since rivers are so absurdly powerful in this version of the game (+1/+1/+1 is absurd).

Not really, the Egyptians placed almost all their cities along the Nile, and all powerful ancient civs had a major river or two. The river gives easy irrigation, or +1 food, the natural road lets you transport more goods with less work, a man could do what a horse would be needed for along a road, freeing up many valuable horses or oxen, or +1 production. These natural advantages would make these areas richer and more populous, giving +1 gold. The vanilla game's lack of significant river advantages other than a single river only building are absurd. And in game, all civs already start on or near a river, and if you don't start on one in this mod, just colonize or conquer the nearest one. The capital doesn't have to be awesome for your civ to win.

LordTC
Nov 16, 2010, 01:48 PM
Not really, the Egyptians placed almost all their cities along the Nile, and all powerful ancient civs had a major river or two. The river gives easy irrigation, or +1 food, the natural road lets you transport more goods with less work, a man could do what a horse would be needed for along a road, freeing up many valuable horses or oxen, or +1 production. These natural advantages would make these areas richer and more populous, giving +1 gold. The vanilla game's lack of significant river advantages other than a single river only building are absurd. And in game, all civs already start on or near a river, and if you don't start on one in this mod, just colonize or conquer the nearest one. The capital doesn't have to be awesome for your civ to win.

Clarifying on my point. I agree that rivers should be powerful from a historical perspective (It's more true to life), but given that they are so powerful its worth considering having game balance factors in the map generation script. There are lots of map scripts out there that do things like this already, and since every major early civilization built cities on rivers, it also makes historical sense to start every player on a river. Anyways, its not necessary, especially if people aren't planning on using it for multiplayer, it would just be nice. It's really frustrating to see that an AI doesn't get a river start and gets completely blown out.

Cross Cowboy
Nov 16, 2010, 05:20 PM
In the early game, you need to watch carefully your happiness and monitor your cities. If you spam cities you will be really hurt as happiness buildings arent abundant. That being said, there are a few that help, and you have to just expand slowly and then as you get more and more happy buildings, you grow out or grow your population. Yes you can have really big cities or you can go for lots and lots and lots. Ive noticed the AI likes to build cities as close as possible and in the beginning they get a lead on me. However, in a few ages I catch up as my cities grow bigger and I still continue to expand outward. At times it does get a bit hard, but by the modern era you shouldnt have too many happpiness worries. But ya never know. I would like to see a bit added on the Golden Age as well, but when you have them in the later periods it does make a difference.

danielshannon
Nov 17, 2010, 12:36 AM
I'd like to see you add the blue mosque wonder from the mod of the same name, because it is awesome.

Here are some other wonders that I'd like to suggest:

Akshardham
1 gold 1 science for every citizen in this city
1 culture 1 Great Artist
tech: industrial processes

Alhambra
10% bonus to all defensive structures
50% culture in this city
3 culture +1 Great Artist
tech:Civil Service

Amphitheatre of El Jem
4 happiness
20% culture in this city
3 culture 3 Great Artist
tech: Construction

Appian Way
faster movements on roads
1 culture 1 great engineer
tech: the wheel

Aristotle's Lyceum
100% science in this city
1 culture 3 great scientist
tech: philosophy

Astrodome
+ 10 Happiness
+ 1 gold for every specialist in this city
1 culture +1 Great Scientist
tech: plastics

Bahá'í Terraces
+ 10% culture in all cities
+ 5 happiness
+1 Culture +1 Great Artist
tech: electronics

Banaue Rice Terraces
+2 food production in every square worked by this city
+1 culture +1 great merchant
city must be within 2 hexes of a mountain
tech: mining

Borobudur
-25% unhappiness for number of citizens
4 culture 1 great artist
tech: civil service

Buddhas of Bamiyan
+1 culture for every 3 citizens in this city
1 culture 1 great artist
city must be built within 2 hexes of a mountain
tech: Currency

(Canadian) Museum of Civilization
+50% culture + 50% science in this city
+1 culture +1 great scientist
tech: nationalism

Church of Saint George (Lalibela)
+2 culture for each temple
+3 culture +1 great artist
tech: theology

Disneyworld
-25% Unhappiness for number of cities in the empire
1 culture 1 great merchant
tech: Mass media

Eden Project
10% food in this city
25% research in this city
1 culture 3 great scientist
tech: biotech industry

Gateway Arch
immediately enter a golden age
2 culture + 2 great engineer
tech: combustion

Hadrian's Wall
+50% combat bonus vs barbarians
1 culture 1 great engineer
tech: Masonry

Hanseatic League
+20% gold from trade routes
1 culture 3 great merchant
city must be built on the Coast
tech: Guilds

Harmandir Sahib
100% Great People growth in this city
3 culture 3 Great artist
tech: military tradition

Iwami Ginzan
+1 production for every citizen in this city
1 culture 3 great engineer
city must have a source of silver within its radius
tech:metallurgy

Jantar Mantar
+1 Science for every specialist in the city
1 culture 1 great scientist
tech: astronomy

King Ezana's Stele
+20% culture in every city in your empire
+2 culture +1 Great Artist
tech: monotheism

Kiyomizu-dera
10 Happiness
3 culture 1 Great Artist
City must be built on a river
tech: Meditation

Lumbinī
+20% Culture in this city
10 Happiness
4 culture 1 great artist
tech: Mysticism

Masada
+100 great General emergence
3 culture 1 great engineer
tech: monotheism

Moai Statues
+1 gold, +1 production, and +1 food in all ocean tiles in this city
+ 10% culture in all coastal cities
3 culture 1 Great Artist
city must be built on the coast
tech:Priesthood

Mount Rushmore
culture cost of acquiring new tiles reduced by 75% in every city
3 culture 3 great engineer
tech: dynamite

Nalanda University
+10% Science for every city
1 culture 1 great scientist
tech: Calender

Neuschwanstein Castle
10 Happiness
3 culture 3 Great Artist
tech: Nationalism

Palm Islands
+ 10 Happiness
+ 100% Culture in this city
+3 Culture +2 Great Engineer
tech: Biotech industry

Pont du Gard
+1 food in every tile worked by this city
1 culture 1 great engineer
city must be built on a river
tech: Mathematics

Saint Catherine Monastery
5 happiness
+ 1 culture for every 3 citizens in this city
3 culture 1 Great Atist
tech:Priesthood

Saint Sophia Cathedral (Kiev)
-25% Unhappiness for number of cities in the empire
5 culture 3 great artist
tech: feudalism

SETI project
+100% Science in this city
+1 culture + 5 Great Scientist
tech: computers

Sigiriya
+5 Happiness
+ 50% culture in this city
+ 1 culture +1 great artist
city must be within 2 hexes of a mountain
tech: engineering

The University of Sankoré
+1 Science for every 3 Citizens in this city
+25% Culture in this City
+1 culture +1 Great Scientist
tech: Education

The White City (of Tel Aviv)
+20% production of all buildings in this city
3 culture 3 great artist
city must be within 2 hexes of a desert tile
tech: electricity

Wieliczka Salt Mine
+1 production +1 Gold in every square worked by this city
+1 culture + 2 Great Engineer
tech: Metallurgy

Yellowstone National Park
+ 10 happiness
+10 gold on Old Faithful
1 culture 1 great merchant
Old Faithful must be in the city's radius
tech: Nationalism


Furthermore you may wish to consider adding some of Alpha Centauri's wonders, techs, and buildings for the diamond age
http://everything2.com/title/Secret+Projects+in+Sid+Meier%2527s+Alpha+Centauri

darkedone02
Nov 17, 2010, 01:33 AM
So many wonder's... after playing this game, I like how you expand the tech tree so much like it be Rise of Mankind, however I wish there was more improvement's to make and I wish we can somehow make the improvement's to upgrade in a number of turns like in Civ 4. Since we have lua, I guess it's possible, because lua is a powerful system which help make gmod look good.

Decimatus
Nov 17, 2010, 04:11 AM
Curious, has anyone been able to download V6 or V7 and not have it crash when the start a game up?

I am definitely trying to work the issue, but I am not at home and so may not be able to troubleshoot as well as I could have on my desktop. Also, I will likely be on a 56k connection and not have much time anyway, so... Doing what I can, for the next 2.5 weeks.

If I can find someone who has been able to run V7 without crashing it would be nice. It works perfectly fine for me(both desktop and laptop), but many had CtD's.

I know the CtD problem exists somewhere in the Building.XML but it is going to be tough for me to narrow it down without lots of help.

I think I'd want to be careful about choosing particular countries Brands for Wonders in the modern era. I think it really hurts immersion when I'm playing as say Germany and the wonder I build is Boeing rather than say Messerschmidt. With ancient Era wonders we're careful about this. It's the Labyrinth rather than the Minoan Labyrinth, etc..

In terms of game balance I've noticed the following:

Much of the social policy tree needs rewriting. Things like +1 hammer in every city or +1 food in your capital are practically a joke now.

Golden Ages need something to change +1 of each type per tile doesn't work out so well when you have so many tiles.

You may want to consider returning the scout bonus for terrain, or making it cost comparable to a warrior and have an extra movement or something. The main issue is that forest starts are extremely painful in terms of exploring.

It may be worth exploring start options like guaranteeing every civ starts on a river, since rivers are so absurdly powerful in this version of the game (+1/+1/+1 is absurd).

Horsemen might need to be weakened given that they now require 2 techs to achieve instead of 3 and both of those techs are awesome. Animal Husbandry reveals a strategic resource, and gives your workers something awesome to do, and Horseback Riding has a unit and two buildings one of which gives happiness which is a key thing early.

I think settler cost needs to be watched closely, largely because of issues with food turning into production.

I've also noticed that settling on a flood plain turned it into a desert in one of my games (I think this is a bug), and that wheat can be placed on desert tiles, which isn't a big deal but it might effect emersion for some people (It's kind of a WTF moment when you're scouting this inhospitable desert and all of a sudden in the middle of this lifeless terrain there is wheat).

It might be necessary to rewrite some of the civ abilities, China (Gold is much more important than other resources in this version and Paper Maker gets much more powerful) and India get significant boosts IMHO (Big cities are far more achievable with the newer food ratios).

One unfortunate side effect of the huge bonuses to food and production that the tiles get is that the map ends up getting coated in those ugly trading posts.


Social policies, civs, etc are all going to be reworked at some point.

I do agree that all civilizations should at least start on a river tile, and that is pretty easy to add in. Not sure when will get the chance, but it is in the cards.

The wheat was on desert or floodplains? I don't think wheat is allowed to start on desert, but if it is I can remove that option. I am not sure about the floodplains turning to desert. I haven't really looked at what happens to the original tile that your city founds on other than to note that the game points you to found cities on non-desirable tiles.

The Early Game needs a fair amount of tuning, It's almost impossible to have a reasonable happiness level early on because the population growth gets out of control. This can be a potential big issue because the AI gets to ignore happiness, while the human player may end up in a really awkward place because of it.

It is nothing near impossible. There is a stop growth function in the city screen.

As far as AI trickery, all I can really try to do is to make sure that at certain points in history the player and AI keep some semblance of parity. Which I have found is generally the case, apart from the fact that human players' cities grow to very large heights while the AI seems to stop sometime around renaissance.

I don't see the case where the AI gets some unreasonable bonus, since I can beat them in tech, militarily(my tactics making up for their numbers), and just about in every other category on prince.

If the AI really gets out ahead, most likely you have been fighting a large war allowing them to develop in peace.

I'd like to see you add the blue mosque wonder from the mod of the same name, because it is awesome.

Here are some other wonders that I'd like to suggest:

Lots of good suggestions, many of which I have on a list I keep. :) At some point, many of those wonders will be accessible through the optional tech pages. Some others I may add directly to the main tree, but there is limited room on each tech(visually) so I can only add so much without much of it getting lost in the civpedia.

So many wonder's... after playing this game, I like how you expand the tech tree so much like it be Rise of Mankind, however I wish there was more improvement's to make and I wish we can somehow make the improvement's to upgrade in a number of turns like in Civ 4. Since we have lua, I guess it's possible, because lua is a powerful system which help make gmod look good.

Many more improvements is on my list, but I do not intend to add many if any before I can get the map graphics to represent them.

TanisX
Nov 17, 2010, 07:28 AM
Did you start manually putting in IDs in V6? I thought the autoincrement function of a table would handle this better than manually making IDs. Starting with V6 I can't use any other mod that adds new buildings/units without making a lot of units/buildings disappear. Also starting with V6 I can start a game but when I try to load a V6 or V7 save game it crashes.

danielshannon
Nov 17, 2010, 12:56 PM
How will these optional tech pages work? Will techs on these pages still be divided up into eras?

I’d like to suggest a tech:
Tourism (requires Flight or advanced flight- whichever one gives you the airport) unlocks the Akshardham and Disneyworld wonders and gives plus 10% Gold in every city with a great wonder

I also have some more suggestions for Extra buildings

Skyscraper
+10% Gold in this city
requires corporation

Brewery
+ 5 happiness
Must have Wheat in city radius
requires Agriculture

Once you have religions you’ll probably want religion specific buildings. I’m opposed to civ 4’s ahistorical take on this issue (easy going multiculturalism isn’t exactly the historical norm for human societies), so I’d like to suggest the following:

Make all religion specific buildings (Synagogue, Cathedral, Mosque, etc) give -5 happiness in addition to positive cultural effects (and additional effects if you wanted to differentiate between the religions somewhat). The state religion would give effects that negate that happiness modifier. So, being a Jewish state would give +10 happiness for each synagogue thus making synagogues give a net happiness. Some sort of religiously tolerant government would give a +5 happiness for each religious building- so they’d all have zero effect on happiness. Thus, there would be some reason for going for a homogeneous society (happiness bonuses) but a religiously tolerant society would bring other benefits (mostly cultural). Thus, religious diversity isn’t the automatically superior option, though it would remain a valid option.
Just my two cents on that.

LordTC
Nov 17, 2010, 07:54 PM
In the early game, you need to watch carefully your happiness and monitor your cities. If you spam cities you will be really hurt as happiness buildings arent abundant. That being said, there are a few that help, and you have to just expand slowly and then as you get more and more happy buildings, you grow out or grow your population. Yes you can have really big cities or you can go for lots and lots and lots. Ive noticed the AI likes to build cities as close as possible and in the beginning they get a lead on me. However, in a few ages I catch up as my cities grow bigger and I still continue to expand outward. At times it does get a bit hard, but by the modern era you shouldnt have too many happpiness worries. But ya never know. I would like to see a bit added on the Golden Age as well, but when you have them in the later periods it does make a difference.

I typically play Immortal and Deity, and the extra population growth with the AI not having to deal with happiness at all is just crushing. I've basically gone from playing mainly Deity (Immortal when I want to try fun, non-gamey strategies) down to playing King because the early game has too many happiness problems. I mean I can play for a warrior rush into a horse-rush if need be at higher levels, but often the AI cities grow high enough that even after they shrink from capture they nuke my happiness.

And on Immortal I was routinely winning with non-gamey strategies that didn't rely on attacking as fast as possible in Vanilla Civ 5, but in CTP the happiness problems mean its impossible to keep up just by being efficient. Even on King If I wait too long to start attacking I'll get crushed economically. It probably makes sense to adjust how the happiness reductions work or adjust the level of happiness at which military penalties kick in.

Also rushing is easier, horsemen are higher on the tree and the tech comes with a good happiness building.

Decimatus
Nov 18, 2010, 03:00 PM
Did you start manually putting in IDs in V6? I thought the autoincrement function of a table would handle this better than manually making IDs. Starting with V6 I can't use any other mod that adds new buildings/units without making a lot of units/buildings disappear. Also starting with V6 I can start a game but when I try to load a V6 or V7 save game it crashes.

I began using Lemmy101's techtree editor which added them to all my previous buildings. And then I added 20+ buildings on top of that which didn't start out with ID's so I incremented them up on top of everything else.

The wierd thing is, this works fine for my desktop and my laptop. Problem is, dozens of people have CtD problems with it. No one has yet to tell me that V6 or 7 works without intervention....

The fix action I think we have found, is that you need to delete all the ID's in all the building/buildingclasses tables.

I am on vacation at my parent's house and can't get AOL to install on my computer for anything, so I can't upload a fix until probably the 3rd of December.

So, until then, if anyone wants to try out V7, they have to manually delete the ID's from the Buildings & BuildingClasses xml's.

Next time, I am going to preload the newest version on Source Forge before I do a wide release so that I can see any big problems like this before it hits the modhub.

But anyway, you can find V7 on SourceForge if you can't wait 2 weeks and want to delete 248 rows from the xml's. Easy but tedious.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

How will these optional tech pages work? Will techs on these pages still be divided up into eras?

I believe so. I am not sure if they have to be the same width, but I don't think they do.

Basically there can be as many pages as I want. I can name them how I like. Most likely it will be a page for Offense, a page for Defense, a page for Social techs, a page for Happiness, Culture, etc, etc. I can prereq techs in the alternate pages to techs in the main tree, and the pipes won't show. So when you learn a tech on the main tree, there will be a good chance that it might open up a tech or two on alternate pages, depending on what it is.

So the way the alternate pages will work will be a kind of refinement of the original pages. Just extra room to allow for specialization. I am thinking there will be some mini-trees in the extra pages, but most will dead-end before they get to 3 or 4 techs long.

I will tailor it so that you will be more rewarded for going further down a line, but of course you won't be progressing down the main tree while you specialize for an upcoming war. Or you might go down an alternate page for a certain wonder that you want to build, or maybe some extra food from your farms.

I am hoping to learn the system and get it off the ground as my next goal after I fix the current V6/7 problems. So, V8 should give you guys at least a taste of how it is going to work.

I also have some more suggestions for Extra buildings

I did add the Gigascraper for V6, to represent a miles long multi-billion ton monstrosity natural wonder. I have been contemplating how to implement some of the skyscrapers in the early 20th century. I am thinking a series of national wonders. Skycraper by itself is a bit too ubiquitous to be a single building. You could say that about a lot of things, but it is a little more true with "skyscraper". So probably a good chance that I will have a number of the tallest buildings as wonders or natural wonders down various alternate tech paths.

Brewery is good. Not sure if I want to add it to the main tree or to the alternate tree. There are actually a good number of buildings that I have written down that I am wondering where to put them. Subways, Casino's, Amusement parks, etc, etc. Once I get a good framework for alternate tech pages, I will decide where they go.

The biggest limitation with techs that I face is that the tech will only display 5 icons. Be those buildings, units, or even improvement upgrades. I could put 30 things on one tech, but it is much better having a tech reveal all it's goodies at a glance rather than having to go deep into civpedia just to see what you get.

Make all religion specific buildings (Synagogue, Cathedral, Mosque, etc) give -5 happiness in addition to positive cultural effects (and additional effects if you wanted to differentiate between the religions somewhat). The state religion would give effects that negate that happiness modifier. So, being a Jewish state would give +10 happiness for each synagogue thus making synagogues give a net happiness. Some sort of religiously tolerant government would give a +5 happiness for each religious building- so they’d all have zero effect on happiness. Thus, there would be some reason for going for a homogeneous society (happiness bonuses) but a religiously tolerant society would bring other benefits (mostly cultural). Thus, religious diversity isn’t the automatically superior option, though it would remain a valid option.
Just my two cents on that.

One of the things I am going to do with alternate tech pages is have a general religion page, and I will likely move many of the religious techs from the main tree over there. Kind of the same for social and government techs. Once I get a separate religion page I will likely begin adding tons of religion buildings. But, I also need to figure out a way to tie religion buildings to the religion policies that I am going to add. There are going to be some undesireable loopholes though(such as taking one religion, building it's buildings, and then switching to another relgion), so it is going to take some engineering to get it to work out the way I want it to.

But yeah, it is going to grow semi-organically as I figure out the path I want to take.

I typically play Immortal and Deity, and the extra population growth with the AI not having to deal with happiness at all is just crushing. I've basically gone from playing mainly Deity (Immortal when I want to try fun, non-gamey strategies) down to playing King because the early game has too many happiness problems. I mean I can play for a warrior rush into a horse-rush if need be at higher levels, but often the AI cities grow high enough that even after they shrink from capture they nuke my happiness.

And on Immortal I was routinely winning with non-gamey strategies that didn't rely on attacking as fast as possible in Vanilla Civ 5, but in CTP the happiness problems mean its impossible to keep up just by being efficient. Even on King If I wait too long to start attacking I'll get crushed economically. It probably makes sense to adjust how the happiness reductions work or adjust the level of happiness at which military penalties kick in.

I run all my test games on prince, so that is what I am going to balance it to. If I hear complaints that everyone can win on deity easily, then I will take action, but if you find it too tough because certain game mechanics create perfect storms on those difficulties I will generally look upon that favorably. Making the hardest difficulties even harder is a better scenario than simply keeping them as they are in Vanilla(which I would say is easier than it should be).

Of course, having said that, I barely even have my foot in the door when it comes to the complete overhaul that I am undertaking with this mod.

My first goal was to expand the tech tree and create the baseline skeleton for the economy/units/etc. That is pretty much done with V7, once I get a working copy online.

My next goal is to implement an expanded government/religion policy system, which is going to drastically alter the balance landscape.

For each major system I add, it is going to require a lot of balancing. So in general, I don't need it to be 100% perfect anytime soon, as it is going to drastically change with each new system I implement. What I want is it to be playable to the extent that you guys can enjoy it as you test out my newest changes. And of course I generally want to balance it to a baseline between each update so that it stays manageable, otherwise I could get so lost in the changes that I wouldn't know how to fix it. :p

Anyway, don't take this to mean I don't want to hear balance suggestions, because you guys definitely play more than I do, and it lets me know where the game is at. :)

TanisX
Nov 18, 2010, 05:07 PM
Removing all the IDs from the building files fixed the disappearing building problems when using other MODs with this one. Removing all the IDs from the 2 Units files fixed the crash on loadgame bug.

chrome-rome
Nov 18, 2010, 08:00 PM
Question: What IDs are you referring to? Or more specifically, what text string symbolizes an ID?

TanisX
Nov 19, 2010, 03:51 AM
Question: What IDs are you referring to? Or more specifically, what text string symbolizes an ID?

<ID>99</ID> is an example. It would be the first line after <Row>. I removed all the <ID>xxx</ID> in the CIV5Buildings, CIV5BuildingClasses, CIV5Units, and CIV5UnitClasses files.

Decimatus
Nov 19, 2010, 07:25 AM
Removing all the IDs from the building files fixed the disappearing building problems when using other MODs with this one. Removing all the IDs from the 2 Units files fixed the crash on loadgame bug.

That is great news. :) I had also heard reports that people couldn't load saves. Not that they crash, but that they can't load them. Wonder if unit ID's cause both.

danielshannon
Nov 19, 2010, 09:09 AM
Here are some proposed optional tech pages techs & their effects (mostly unlocking wonders that I've already proposed).

HAPPINESS TECHS

1. Fermentation
Requires: Agriculture
Effect: Allows construction of the following Building
Brewery (Building) + 5 Happiness, -5% production, city must have a source of wheat

2. National Broadcasting Networks
Requires: Mass Media
Effect Unlocks the following Wonders
Public Television Network (national Wonder): +10 happiness and +10% science for every city with a broadcast tower
CN Tower (Toronto): Cost of culture grabbing tiles -25% throughout the empire

3. Athletics
requires: Agriculture
Effect: unlocks the following building and wonder
Gymnasium (building): +1 happiness
Olympic Games:+ 1 happiness for every coliseum, gymnasium, and stadium in the empire

4. Modern Sports
Requires: Mass Media
Effect: unlocks the following wonders
Astrodome: + 10 Happiness, + 1 gold for every specialist in this city
Ericsson Globe: (Stockholm) +10 Happiness +1 gold for every stadium in the empire

5. Video games Industry
Requires: Computers
Effect: adds the following building and wonder
Video Arcade (building): +5 happiness, -10% production
Firaxis HQ: + 10 Happiness +10% gold and -10% production for every city

6. Digital media
Requires: internet
Effect: unlocks the following building and wonder:
Internet Café (building): + 5 happiness, +5 % Science, + 5% Gold, -10% production
Digital Media City Landmark Building (seoul): +1 Science for every Specialist in the city


COMMERCE TECHS

1. Terrace
requires: agriculture
Effect: +1 food on hills; unlocks the following Wonder
Banaue Rice Terraces:+2 food production in every square worked by this city (city must be within 2 hexes of a mountain)

2. Advanced Trade Networks
requires: Guilds
Effect: unlocks the following Wonders
Hanseatic League: +20% gold from trade routes (city must be built on the Coast)
Wieliczka Salt Mine: +1 production +1 Gold in every square worked by this city
Iwami Ginzan: +1 production for every citizen in this city (city must have a source of silver within its radius)

3. Modern Banking
requires: Corporations
Effect: unlocks the following Wonders
National Bank (national Wonder): +10 happiness + 10% Gold For city with a Bank
First Bank Building (Toronto): +10% Gold from trade routes

4. Insurance Industry
requires: Corporations
Effect: unlocks the following Wonder
Metropolitan Life Tower (NYC) + 10% food in every city +10% culture in this city
Transamerica Pyramid (san Francisco) +10% Food in every city, +1 Gold for citizen in this city

5. Early Skyscrapers
Requires: Corporations
Effect: Unlocks the following Wonders
The Auditorium Building (Chicago): +1 Science for every specialist in this city
Park Row Building (NYC): +1 Gold from every specialist in the city
The Woolworth Building (NYC): +10% Culture + 10% gold in this city
Empire State Building (NYC): immediately enter a golden Age, +1 Gold for every citizen in this city

6. Improved Skyscrapers
Requires: Early Skyscrapers
Effect: Unlocks the Following Wonders
World Trade Center (NYC): + 100% Gold from trade Routes
IDS Center (Minneapolis): + 100% Culture in this city
The Rialto (Melbourne): + 10% Gold in every city in the empire

7. Modern Skyscrapers
Requires: Improved Skyscraper and Globalization
Financial Center (Taipei): +1 Gold for every citizen in this city
Burj Khalifa (Dubai): Immediately enter a golden Age
Shard of Glass (London): -25% Unhappiness for number of citizens in the Empire
Messeturm (Frankfurt): +2 Happiness for every city connected to the Capital
Milad Tower (Tehran): Cost of culture grabbing tiles -25% throughout the empire

8. Tourism Industry
Requires: Advanced Flight
Effect: +10% Gold in every city with a wonder; Unlocks the following wonders
Akshardham: 1 gold 1 science for every citizen in this city
Disneyworld: -25% Unhappiness for number of cities in the empire

9. Automobile Industry
requires: combustion
Effects: +5 happiness for every Auto Plant; Unlocks the following Wonders:
Chrysler Building (NYC): + 10% production, +10% Gold for every city with an auto plant
Standard Oil Building (Chicago): +10% production +10% Gold for every city with an Oil Refinery

10. Business Logistics
requires: Corporations
Effect: allows for the following Building and Wonders:
Department store (building): +10% Food +1 gold for every 4 citizens
Sears Tower (Chicago): + 10% Gold For every Department Store in the empire

11. Sustainability
Requires: Ecology
Effect: Unlocks the following Wonders
Eden Project: 10% food in this city; +25% research in this city
Fuhrländer Wind Turbine (Laasow) +25% production in this city

12. Canned Foods
requires: refrigeration
Effect: +2 food for every Manufactory, Academy, Landmark, and Customs House

CULTURAL TECHS


1. Classical Engineering
Requires: construction
Effect: unlocks the following Wonders
Appian Way: faster movements on roads
Amphitheatre of El Jem: +4 happiness, + 20% culture in this city
Hadrian's Wall: +50% combat bonus vs barbarians
Pont du Gard: +1 food in every tile worked by this city
Ishtar Gate: Defensive Buildings 25% more effective

2. Islamic Architecture
Requires: Fundamentalism
Effect: Unlocks the following wonders:
Alhambra: 10% bonus to all defensive structures, +10% Culture in this city
The University of Sankoré: +1 Science for every 3 Citizens in this city,+25% Culture in this City
Saladin citadel: Defensive Buildings 25% more effective
The Blue Mosque:+1 culture and +1 science for every 2 citizens in this city

3. Greco-Buddhist art
requires: Classical Engineering
Effect: unlocks the following:
Buddhas of Bamiyan: +1 00% Culture in this city (city must be built within 2 hexes of a mountain)
Borobudur: -25% unhappiness for number of citizens
Kiyomizu-dera: +10 Happiness (City must be built on a river)
Sigiriya: +5 Happiness; + 50% culture in this city
Lumbinī: -25% unhappiness for number of cities

4. Gothic Architecture
Requires: Theology
Effect: unlocks the following Wonders
Ulm Minster (Ulm): enter a Golden Age
Cluny Abbey: Culture cost of adopting new policies reduced by 25%
Saint Sophia Cathedral (Kiev): -25% Unhappiness for number of cities in the empire

5. Early Monuments
requires: Mysticism
Effect: +2 culture for landmarks; unlocks the Following Wonders
King Ezana's Stele: +20% culture in every city in your empire
Moai Statues: +1 gold, +1 production, and +1 food in all ocean tiles in this city(must be built on the coast)
Church of Saint George (Lalibela): +2 culture for each temple
Masada: +100 great General emergence

6. Advanced Monuments
requires: Early Monuments
Effect: +2 culture for landmarks; unlocks the following Wonders
Jantar Mantar: +1 Science for every specialist in the city
Harmandir Sahib: +100% Great People growth in this city
Saint Catherine Monastery: +5 happiness;+ 1 culture for every 3 citizens in this city
Peterhof Palace:+25% Culture generation throughout your empire

7. Improved Monuments
Requires: advanced Monuments
Effect: +2 Culture for landmarks; unlocks the following Wonders
Neuschwanstein Castle: +10 Happiness
Mount Rushmore: culture cost of acquiring new tiles reduced by 75% in every city
The White City (of Tel Aviv): +20% production of all buildings in this city

8. Modern Monuments
requires: Improved Monuments
Effect: +2 Culture for landmarks; unlocks the following Wonders
Gateway Arch (St Louis): Enter a golden age
The Motherland Calls (Stalingrad): +50% Great General Generation
Bahá'í Terraces:+ 10% culture in all cities; + 5 happiness
Monument of Light (Dublin): + 5 happiness +100 culture in this city

9. Modern infrastructure
requires: railroad and electricity
Effect:+1 gold for Landmarks; unlocks the following Building and Wonders
Subway (building): +1 happiness; +1 gold per every 4 citizens in this city
Golden Gate Bridge: Empire enters a golden age
Channel Tunnel: +1 production, +1 Science, and +1 Gold for every plot worked by this city

10. Land Reclamation
requires: Modern infrastructure
Effect: unlocks the following building and wonders
Levee(Building): +1 production, +1 food in ever river tile
Palm Islands:+ 10 Happiness;+ 100% Culture in this city
Zuiderzee Works: +2 production from water tiles worked by this city

11. Motion pictures
Requires: Mass Media
Effect: unlocks the following building and wonder
Cinema: + 2 happiness; + 2 Culture; +1 gold for every 2 citizens in the city
Bollywood: Unhappiness from number of Citizens halved

12.National parks
requires: Nationalism
Effect: +2 culture for landmarks; unlocks the following Wonders
Yellowstone National Park + 10 happiness +10 gold on Old Faithful (must have Old Faithful in radius)
(Canadian) Museum of Civilization (national wonder): +50% culture + 50% science in this city

13. Televangelism
requires:National Broadcast networks
Effect:Unlocks the following Wonder
Hassan II Mosque: +100 Culture in this city (must be coastal)

SCIENCE TECHS

1.Ancient higher-learning institutions
requires: philosophy
Effect: +1 science per Academy; unlocks the following Wonders
Aristotle's Lyceum: + 100% science in this city
Nalanda University: +10% Science for every city

2. Fundamental research
requires: electricity
Effect: +1 science per academy; unlocks the following wonders
National Science Foundation (national Wonder): +10% research in every city
Library Tower (LA): +1 science for every citizen in this city
IBM Tower (Atlanta): +10% science in every city
Lomonosov University (Moscow): +100% Science in this City

3. Advanced Space Research
requires: Manned Spaceflight
Effect:+1 Science per Academy; unlocks the following Wonder
SETI project: +100% Science in this city

4. Advanced Medicine
requires:Penicilin
Effects:+1 Science per academy; Unlocks the following wonders
National health Service (national Wonder): +25% food in every city, -10% Gold in every city (must have a hospital in every city)
Guy's Hospital: +25% food in this city, +1 science for every specialist in this city

MILITARY TECHS

1.Military Modernization
Requires: combustion
Effect: unlocks the Military Modernization great Project
Military Modernization (project): grants the blitz upgrade to any tanks, panzers, mechanized infantry, or Modern Armor that you build in the future

2. Military industrial Complex
requires: atomic Theory and fundamental Research
effect: +3 Science per Military Base, unlocks the following wonders
BREN Tower(Nevada Test Site): + 2 free Technologies
Henry J. Kaiser Shipyards: +25% production of Naval Units in this city (must be built on the cost)
Uralvagonzavod: +25% production of armored vehicles in this city
Boeing Aircraft Plant: +25% production of air units in this city

3. Modern Military Doctrines
requires: Military Science
effect: unlocks the following wonders
National Naval Academy (national wonder): +25 experiance for all future Naval units built in your empire (must be a coastal city)
National Air Force Academy (national Wonder): +25 experience for all future air units built in your empire
New Port News Shipyards: +25% production of Naval Units in this city (must be built on the cost)
Royal Military Academy Sandhurst: +25 experience for all future land units built by your country
Panzertruppenschule (Kama): +25 experiance for all future armored units built by your country

chrome-rome
Nov 19, 2010, 11:07 AM
Thanks for the help TanisX; I guess I did not look hard enough. For those who are going to be deleting the ids to make v7 run, might I suggest the replace (control h) function. Just put <id> in the find and change to whatever. Do the same for </id>. This may be common sense to some, but for those who are less computer savvy, it could save a lot of time.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 19, 2010, 03:07 PM
Thanks for the help TanisX; I guess I did not look hard enough. For those who are going to be deleting the ids to make v7 run, might I suggest the replace (control h) function. Just put <id> in the find and change to whatever. Do the same for </id>. This may be common sense to some, but for those who are less computer savvy, it could save a lot of time.

is there a comment line? If so it makes bad code; but if <id> is at the beginning of the line can you change it to "<!--" and than change "</id>" to "-->". This would comment out a line in xml code.. I don't know moding in Civ5 though isn't it xml?

Replace all would have fix that in a snap. Again would have weird comments; but if it works for us fanatics who cares.

Edit:

Find and replace as I say above works just fine. Do one than other and it will comment out all the lines you don't want.

Added fixed files in txt format.

LordTC
Nov 19, 2010, 04:02 PM
Get rid of the generic one, and have a national park for every one of the happiness wonders (need it in tile radius to get).

adecoy95
Nov 19, 2010, 04:11 PM
gonna have to disable this mod for now, i like it, but the ai, scary stuff

also, some feedback.

the labyrinth is incredibly powerful, its probably the best early game wonder by far, it gives two engineer specialist slots, and 2 added engineer points, and a free engineer! building this wonder will give you around 16 hammers for your capital (before bonuses!)

EDIT: argh! i lied, there is so much good about this mod that i keep coming back to it, even if it just chews me up :lol:

EDIT2: lost again to 25+ spearmen. i dont know what im doing wrong, i guess i could just rush bronzeworking, and just spam spearmen forever, and see if i compete with the ai

chrome-rome
Nov 19, 2010, 07:30 PM
Lol I know what you mean. I thought it was because I was using battle a.i. mod, but perhaps the aggresiveness is coming from this mod. I love it though - no more building/city spam. It really helps you see what is really necessary...

TanisX
Nov 19, 2010, 07:41 PM
I always make a beeline for the tech with crossbowmen to help combat the ai's early spamming of melee units. If I'm lucky enough to have enough time and hills to campout on that is.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 19, 2010, 08:21 PM
Ok, I fixed all the files to play v7. I found an odd thing. In my capital I was spamming slaves to help the empire when I got colusiums so I could increase happiness. I tried to build one; but couldn't until I finished my que of slaves. Once finished I was able to que the buildings. I am not sure if this is a bug as after that I could add stuff to que.

Edit 1: No one has posted since me.. So next finding. CS's spammed slaves. I don't know if it because of your mod or the CS diplomacy mod I have active.. but weird to see 3-4 slaves sitting on the border all the time.

Decimatus
Nov 20, 2010, 09:53 AM
Great to see the fix is working for everyone. :) Thanks for the help in finding and testing for solutions.

Here are some proposed optional tech pages techs & their effects (mostly unlocking wonders that I've already proposed).

Good suggestions. I will put them in my notepad and save them for when I am brainstorming new tech/wonder ideas. :)

gonna have to disable this mod for now, i like it, but the ai, scary stuff

also, some feedback.

the labyrinth is incredibly powerful, its probably the best early game wonder by far, it gives two engineer specialist slots, and 2 added engineer points, and a free engineer! building this wonder will give you around 16 hammers for your capital (before bonuses!)

EDIT: argh! i lied, there is so much good about this mod that i keep coming back to it, even if it just chews me up

EDIT2: lost again to 25+ spearmen. i dont know what im doing wrong, i guess i could just rush bronzeworking, and just spam spearmen forever, and see if i compete with the ai

I have been watching the AI in this mod, and I have come to several conclusions:

1. The AI really really hates it when another player settles a city anywhere near them. I am not sure if this is tied to proximity, or perhaps even as far as the AI has explored. I think the AI might have certain settling plans for territory it has explored, and if you settle where it planned to go, you piss it off.

The more you settle, the more the hatred compounds. Games where I kept myself to 1-8 cities, the AI never declared war on me, even if I culture bombed them back to back. Buying tiles probably angers them on a similar level.

2. If the AI runs out of places to settle, and you are next to them, they will covet your lands. Also, as they no longer need to produce settlers, they have more time to build armies.

3. As production is quite a bit higher than in Vanilla, it seems as if the AI hits a unit threshold where it decides that it has to use it's vast armies against whomever it hates at the time. Which is unfortunate for the player because that is usually a lot of units.

4. The AI really doesn't know how to use it's units, or plan far enough ahead to know that it is loosing melee units at such a high rate that even if it destroys every enemy unit, and brings all cities down to 1HP, it won't be able to take a single city. This makes it quite possible to survive impossible odds while you build and move units to the front.


So yeah, I see how big and strong the AI can get, but from my point of view, it is the one and only thing that allows the AI to compete on a near even level. And honestly, I have had a lot of fun with the extremely close fights I have had with the AI as a result. :)


Ok, I fixed all the files to play v7. I found an odd thing. In my capital I was spamming slaves to help the empire when I got colusiums so I could increase happiness. I tried to build one; but couldn't until I finished my que of slaves. Once finished I was able to que the buildings. I am not sure if this is a bug as after that I could add stuff to que.

Edit 1: No one has posted since me.. So next finding. CS's spammed slaves. I don't know if it because of your mod or the CS diplomacy mod I have active.. but weird to see 3-4 slaves sitting on the border all the time.

It seems like the slaves aren't working out. There is the production bug, but the main reason would be that the AI simply can't handle them. I used Great Engineer AI for the slave AI, so I am pretty sure that it is an issue of the AI saving slaves for Wonders, which in many cases the AI never gets to even start because the player jumps on them immediately.

So, when I fix V7 and launch it, I will also remove slaves until a later date when I can implement it in a working manner.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 20, 2010, 10:29 AM
I recorded my beginning invasion of Rome. I will edit to add link once YouTube is done uploading (40 mins!) TheMeinTeam is one who helped me get recording down. I used your mod, the diplomacy mod, add trees mod, capable settlers, and unlimited barb exp. If they are attacking I should get exp from it!

I show off a little micro part way through. I also stop to show the CS's and the slaves. I know you said you will work on this all ready; but you can see. I am spamming mostly trading posts. This is warlord difficulty (In future I will record me setting up game as intro so you can see what I'm playing); but I am roflstomping the AI.

I had to embark to get to Rome; talk about a choke point. I have all ready taken out America as you see I own Seattle. They were bottom half and tasty.

This is just a clash of mods; but the CS diplomacy is joke with GPT you can make. 2k for CS's isn't anything. Although with the old amount, you could buy the world easy. It plays really fast. My vid is in double speed? Don't know why I didn't do it on purpose.

Any questions on what you see ask; this is just a game in progress.

Edit:
Viedo --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHspvMBl3Ro

Edit 2:
I added captions for your viewing pleasure. Parts 2 and 3 will come shortly for my invasion.

Decimatus
Nov 20, 2010, 03:04 PM
I recorded my beginning invasion of Rome. I will edit to add link once YouTube is done uploading (40 mins!) TheMeinTeam is one who helped me get recording down. I used your mod, the diplomacy mod, add trees mod, capable settlers, and unlimited barb exp. If they are attacking I should get exp from it!

I show off a little micro part way through. I also stop to show the CS's and the slaves. I know you said you will work on this all ready; but you can see. I am spamming mostly trading posts. This is warlord difficulty (In future I will record me setting up game as intro so you can see what I'm playing); but I am roflstomping the AI.

I had to embark to get to Rome; talk about a choke point. I have all ready taken out America as you see I own Seattle. They were bottom half and tasty.

This is just a clash of mods; but the CS diplomacy is joke with GPT you can make. 2k for CS's isn't anything. Although with the old amount, you could buy the world easy. It plays really fast. My vid is in double speed? Don't know why I didn't do it on purpose.

Any questions on what you see ask; this is just a game in progress.

Edit:
Viedo --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHspvMBl3Ro

Edit 2:
I added captions for your viewing pleasure. Parts 2 and 3 will come shortly for my invasion.

I would watch that, but by the time the video loads I will be on a plane home. lol

Did you focus military from the beginning or get dragged into wars that you went on to win?

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 20, 2010, 03:10 PM
I would watch that, but by the time the video loads I will be on a plane home. lol

Did you focus military from the beginning or get dragged into wars that you went on to win?

Part 2 and 3 are up, so that is over 30 mins of me playing civ! Wow; and all on your MOD. I still haven't conquered Rome yet. :(

So your question I was peaceful Beeline to happy tech for my first 5 cities. After I was sitting happy I went horse and wiped America out. Part way through the war I convinced Rome to help me. He never did anything though as you can see they really were mountain blocked.

Rome got mad at me when I took all of America and they got there late. This caused them to declare on me. I was fine with this having good happiness; good GPT; and good science. I must admit that this war is dragging on though and I would like a little peace. I don't think I'm behind the other civs not fighting; but don't want to fall behind.

At the warlord level of difficulty it does seem farely easy to warmonger and not fall behind.

Decimatus
Nov 20, 2010, 05:18 PM
Many of the games I play where war happens, I will expand until the AI is pissed at me and they end up declaring war before I am anywhere near ready. Usually they have 15-40 units to my 1-5. I hold them off simply because I usually have decent city placement(2 tiles from a river which is really perfect), and of course focusing on their melee units bones them just about everytime.

I haven't really played an early game warmonger with this mod yet. I can see how you could steamroll the AI though. Try your next warmonger game on something higher than Prince and let me know how the AI fairs then. :)

I will try and check out the videos when I have a connection that can handle it. :p

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 20, 2010, 05:26 PM
Yes, I will have to up the AI. It was two easy. But the endless Rome units are starting to get annoying. I'm not loosing as I'm taking over; but I can see it getting long. No bugs though! Well besides the slave things.

adecoy95
Nov 20, 2010, 05:41 PM
how are you all able to keep the ai at bay with only 5 or so units.

in the last game i just tried japan had somewhere north of a dozen citys all 2 tiles apart from each other... and i had 4 and my cities were unhappy.

i spent some turns trying to get my happiness back up, only to meet war again.

i cant even unlock iron before im under attack once again

EDIT: also, i tried rusing to crossbows, but its not possible, its after engineering! i need like over a dozen techs to get it D:

TanisX
Nov 20, 2010, 06:16 PM
Japan can be tough because of the 'do full damage regardless of hp' trait. I've had Samurai do 3 dmg to mech infrantry fighting them. For early game I try to keep my cities down to 3. Fill up scientist specialities for those free techs. I think you only need 4 techs to get to the tech with crossbowmen using this mod. I would try to get Writing first though for the good science boost building and wonder.

Decimatus
Nov 20, 2010, 06:17 PM
how are you all able to keep the ai at bay with only 5 or so units.

in the last game i just tried japan had somewhere north of a dozen citys all 2 tiles apart from each other... and i had 4 and my cities were unhappy.

i spent some turns trying to get my happiness back up, only to meet war again.

i cant even unlock iron before im under attack once again

EDIT: also, i tried rusing to crossbows, but its not possible, its after engineering! i need like over a dozen techs to get it D:

~5 archers.

One thing you must know about how the AI fights is that they commit a single wave to a single city at a time. So all you have to do is kill the melee units in each wave and then pick off their siege units at leisure.

City placement can be key. If your city is surrounded by plains, it gets tough. If your city has a fair choke point, or better yet, a river placed strategically to stop enemy units just within artillery range, then you can hold them off all day long.

Depending on where the AI is in the tech tree, it can be harder to kill the melee units. If the AI has lots of cav or lancers it can be a real pain, but by then your army should be built up.


Of course a lot depends on map size, how many AI, etc. It sounds like you have been having to start wars pretty early. I would say that if you plan on fighting on small, crowded maps, to go for archers right off the bat. If you have a more wide open map, you could wait longer.

I think you only need 4 techs to get to the tech with crossbowmen using this mod.

It is more than 4 I think, but it is closer than longswords and knights so it is a pretty good tech to beeline to if you feel a war is coming.

And archers are experts at the defensive war, so you can level them up while you work to crossbows.

adecoy95
Nov 20, 2010, 06:39 PM
~5 archers.

One thing you must know about how the AI fights is that they commit a single wave to a single city at a time. So all you have to do is kill the melee units in each wave and then pick off their siege units at leisure.

City placement can be key. If your city is surrounded by plains, it gets tough. If your city has a fair choke point, or better yet, a river placed strategically to stop enemy units just within artillery range, then you can hold them off all day long.

Depending on where the AI is in the tech tree, it can be harder to kill the melee units. If the AI has lots of cav or lancers it can be a real pain, but by then your army should be built up.


Of course a lot depends on map size, how many AI, etc. It sounds like you have been having to start wars pretty early. I would say that if you plan on fighting on small, crowded maps, to go for archers right off the bat. If you have a more wide open map, you could wait longer.



It is more than 4 I think, but it is closer than longswords and knights so it is a pretty good tech to beeline to if you feel a war is coming.

And archers are experts at the defensive war, so you can level them up while you work to crossbows.

archers take 2-3 turns to kill an infantry, thats more than enough time for their archers to attack, or even the infantry to just simply walk to you... i have tried falling the archers back, but then they just attack the city! :mad:

Decimatus
Nov 20, 2010, 08:46 PM
archers take 2-3 turns to kill an infantry, thats more than enough time for their archers to attack, or even the infantry to just simply walk to you... i have tried falling the archers back, but then they just attack the city! :mad:

Their archers will almost always attack the city if they have a choice between your archers and the city.

It doesn't matter what their archers are doing as long as you kill the melee before they can actually attack your city. Melee units that are in the red will almost never attack a city, even if the city only has 1hp.

It depends on the terrain around the city, but you have to figure out where to setup the kill zones. Archers with a river between them and the enemy are pretty much invincible.

Place your archers level with your city, or in key points that allow them to bait enemy units towards them. Make it so that the enemy stops right in front of the archer or group of archers where they can be easily killed.

Unless the enemy has a great tech advantage, archers can easily defend against a melee unit that only has 1-4 life, so feel free to risk the melee surviving in those cases.

Once your archers get the 4th, 5th, and 6th promotions they begin to become progressively more invincible to the AI. +1 Range, +1 attack, and Indirect Fire. And it is easy to get that much xp when you are facing an onslaught of enemy units.

Would be easier to show you if I could I guess. I routinely survive overwhelming odds when the AI declare war on me. It helps that I plan out the city placement with war in mind for the area in the map where I foresee them attacking me. But mostly the AI doesn't know how to use it's units, and especially it doesn't restock it's melee units quickly enough to seal the deal on my 1hp cities.

War Chicken
Nov 21, 2010, 01:36 AM
I'd really like to test your MOD because it sounds very interesting, but the downloaded version from sourceforge crashes my Civ5 to desktop, when I start the game after setting it up.
My ModBrowser is still spazzy (will that be fixed anytime?) and I can't download the mod that way.

Is there anything I can do to make it work?

Azazell
Nov 21, 2010, 05:07 AM
This is strange. In modHUB i see only v5. When i download this mod from https://sourceforge.net/projects/ctpproject/, game is freeze when i create new game. ;/

MasterJ
Nov 21, 2010, 08:47 AM
yes same problem here with the mod downloaded from sourceforge (the latest) v.7 it's crash but work perfectly with the one on the mod browser in-game v.5 i really want to update it any idea what's wrong with v.7?

Decimatus
Nov 21, 2010, 08:52 AM
Sorry for the confusion guys. V6/7 has an ID problem in the building and unit xml's.

You can fix the current V6/V7 problems by manually deleting the <ID> lines in Buildings.xml, BuildingClasses.xml, Units.xml, and UnitClasses.xml found in the documents/mygames/civ5/mods folder.

I went on vacation the day after launching V6 so I didn't have time to figure out the problem and upload a fix. I will be coming home on the 2nd, so hopefully that night I can upload the fixed version.

KingKeeper
Nov 21, 2010, 08:52 AM
V6 and V7 are bugged as you cant start a game or even if you can (like me) you cant reload after saving.
Decimatus the maker of this mod is away till early december without a way to upload a new version so he resetted the mod to V5 in the modbrowser cause this version is stable.

Ah btw great mod, AI is a bigger challenge with their ICS and IUS :D

Edit: slower by a few secs ^^

Azazell
Nov 21, 2010, 08:54 AM
Ah btw great mod, AI is a bigger challenge with their ICS and UCS :D

Edit: slower by a few secs ^^

What this ICS and UCS?

KingKeeper
Nov 21, 2010, 09:02 AM
ICS = Infinite City Spam, a strat where you really spam Citys close together filling every gap with a City even if the place is suboptimal, AI like that too (and with this mod really fast too).

IUS = Infinite Unit Spam, well with the raised production in this mod, the AI ofter overruns you in early game with spearmen and later when you attack them you must maw trough a lot of foes...

Azazell
Nov 21, 2010, 11:21 AM
KingKeeper --> where I found this ICS and IUS?

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 21, 2010, 11:26 AM
I'd really like to test your MOD because it sounds very interesting, but the downloaded version from sourceforge crashes my Civ5 to desktop, when I start the game after setting it up.
My ModBrowser is still spazzy (will that be fixed anytime?) and I can't download the mod that way.

Is there anything I can do to make it work?

Sorry for the confusion guys. V6/7 has an ID problem in the building and unit xml's.

You can fix the current V6/V7 problems by manually deleting the <ID> lines in Buildings.xml, BuildingClasses.xml, Units.xml, and UnitClasses.xml found in the documents/mygames/civ5/mods folder.

I went on vacation the day after launching V6 so I didn't have time to figure out the problem and upload a fix. I will be coming home on the 2nd, so hopefully that night I can upload the fixed version.

is there a comment line? If so it makes bad code; but if <id> is at the beginning of the line can you change it to "<!--" and than change "</id>" to "-->". This would comment out a line in xml code.. I don't know moding in Civ5 though isn't it xml?

Replace all would have fix that in a snap. Again would have weird comments; but if it works for us fanatics who cares.

Edit:

Find and replace as I say above works just fine. Do one than other and it will comment out all the lines you don't want.

Added fixed files in txt format.

Go to my previous post. I attached the files. Just change them back to an XML file by changing the extension. While I didn't delete the lines; commenting them out was much faster with find replace.

Can these files be added to source forge? In a zip or something? I manually install all my MOD's now anyway; browser doesn't work well.

Decimatus
Nov 21, 2010, 01:18 PM
V6 and V7 are bugged as you cant start a game or even if you can (like me) you cant reload after saving.
Decimatus the maker of this mod is away till early december without a way to upload a new version so he resetted the mod to V5 in the modbrowser cause this version is stable.

Ah btw great mod, AI is a bigger challenge with their ICS and IUS :D

Edit: slower by a few secs ^^

In your case(to fix the save game issue) you need to delete the ID's found in the Units.xml and UnitClasses.xml.

Or better yet, extract the new fix I just uploaded to your CtP Project folder. :)

Can these files be added to source forge? In a zip or something? I manually install all my MOD's now anyway; browser doesn't work well.

I should have done that earlier, thanks. :)

It is now uploaded to SourceForge, labeled V7 FIX.zip. It has all 4 files you need to fix the current problems.

1. Go to Documents/my games/Civ5/Mods/CtP Project
2. Extract V7 FIX.zip into the CtP Project folder.
3. Select Yes to overwrite.
4. Win.

Buddha2723
Nov 22, 2010, 08:46 AM
If possible, when getting rid of slaves just try to give workers a smaller engineer boom(I think 25% of production cost). Since you can capture enemy workers it already basically represents slavery. This also shouldn't confuse the AI(hopefully).

lawyergamer
Nov 22, 2010, 10:48 AM
I tried copying the 4 files from the fix into my CTP folder, but it still crashes when I try to start a new game. I have no other mods enabled. Any idea why it's still not working? Thanks!

MasterJ
Nov 22, 2010, 11:56 AM
actually i use the file given upper into .txt format and it's work great let's time for me to download the FIX and check if all still working (but why not hmm? ;) )
take your vacation now lol we can wait a few weeks then we can have a new release withotu FIX ^^ (v8 hehehe) have fun all

TanisX
Nov 22, 2010, 01:42 PM
I tried copying the 4 files from the fix into my CTP folder, but it still crashes when I try to start a new game. I have no other mods enabled. Any idea why it's still not working? Thanks!

I think the files in the fix zip are named *.xml.txt so if you copy them it won't overwrite the files *.xml.

Decimatus
Nov 22, 2010, 03:05 PM
If possible, when getting rid of slaves just try to give workers a smaller engineer boom(I think 25% of production cost). Since you can capture enemy workers it already basically represents slavery. This also shouldn't confuse the AI(hopefully).

The slave already has the engineer production rush and that is what is causing the problem, so that would be pointless.

Also, I can't give it a % production rush. It is a base rush value and a multiplier value which I believe works off the number of turns played.

If I can figure out a way to implement it without the production bug and AI problems, I will. :)

I think the files in the fix zip are named *.xml.txt so if you copy them it won't overwrite the files *.xml.

The files have a .txt added at the end? They are .xml in the zip file sitting on my destop, I have no clue how that happened.

Can anyone confirm that renaming the extensions fixes the fix? lol this is ridiculous. I am stuck in the 1990's here. lol

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 22, 2010, 06:08 PM
Mine had a .txt becuase I attached them to the forums. Yours I do not know.

Nefelia
Nov 22, 2010, 09:46 PM
For those experiencing difficulties due to early aggression, my recommendation would be to just build a lot of warriors. With the generous production and gold, it is not difficult to build and maintain a decent fighting force without rushing a tech for spearmen, archers, or horsemen.

The AI will still have a numerical advantage, but the human player is better able to take advantage of terrain, promotions, and flanking bonuses.

That said, if you start near Mongolia, do get spearmen.

JSnider
Nov 23, 2010, 10:32 AM
Used Yanikin files and removing the txt extension worked fine for me .. playing the V7 mod at this point. Gotta say big difference from V5, could not expand as fast and red face killing me in early game .. also food and money a lot harder to have in early game so growing cities harder (get to point were growth is like .25 food or zero). So until Industrial era hit a wall for growth then start again after couple techs. Oh as to tech I think Industrial to modern needs a bit more meat, seems like i blew through Industrial in about 20 game turns. At this point some of the cost to build seem a tad to high to me .. i'll take better notes on 2nd game, playing this time just to get a feel for the mechanics and flow. So far this is a really nice mod ... thanx for work.

TanisX
Nov 23, 2010, 10:58 AM
The Circus Maximus wonder has the Nazca Lines dds file referenced so the wrong splash screen is shown. Not sure if the OCEAN HABITAT PROTOTYPE wonder should be coast only but it can be build in a land-locked city.

Shylock76
Nov 23, 2010, 01:16 PM
Have to say i'm enjoying the mod, thanks! However every time i go to load a game it gives me a runtime error message and a CTD...any ideas?

Decimatus
Nov 23, 2010, 01:40 PM
Used Yanikin files and removing the txt extension worked fine for me .. playing the V7 mod at this point. Gotta say big difference from V5, could not expand as fast and red face killing me in early game .. also food and money a lot harder to have in early game so growing cities harder (get to point were growth is like .25 food or zero). So until Industrial era hit a wall for growth then start again after couple techs. Oh as to tech I think Industrial to modern needs a bit more meat, seems like i blew through Industrial in about 20 game turns. At this point some of the cost to build seem a tad to high to me .. i'll take better notes on 2nd game, playing this time just to get a feel for the mechanics and flow. So far this is a really nice mod ... thanx for work.

Good to see you guys enjoying it again. :)

I tried to balance the industrial buildings so that they are expensive to get off the ground but once you do they give you a real industrial revolution feel. How is that going?

You mean you beelined to modern in 20 turns, or you had a significant portion of industrial techs researched in 20? Of course, industrial didn't exactly last very long, but I can try and cut out excessive beelining if it is too quick.

How is the AI handling tech? Do they fall behind at renaissance/industrial(as they do in previous versions) or are they managing to keep up?

The Circus Maximus wonder has the Nazca Lines dds file referenced so the wrong splash screen is shown. Not sure if the OCEAN HABITAT PROTOTYPE wonder should be coast only but it can be build in a land-locked city.

I will be sure to take a look at these, thanks for the report. :) I was sure that I added a line for coast only to the habitat, but maybe not.

Have to say i'm enjoying the mod, thanks! However every time i go to load a game it gives me a runtime error message and a CTD...any ideas?

Playing on V7? Can you check to see if there are any <ID> lines in the units or unitclasses xml's? If you are good in that area, we will have to do some troubleshooting to see where this problem is coming from. I don't remember anyone reporting CTD problems with loadgame though, just that you couldn't.

JSnider
Nov 23, 2010, 01:55 PM
Production bldgs cost to me is Ok .. for what you get makes sense, but for the others seems like overkill (average to bld a monument is like 17 turns .. don't know if can reduce cost with time but for some of the early buildings is like a long long long time). Took about 20 turns (no beeline) to get modern, hadn't even built more than 1 or 2 units before they were outdated with modern ones. Oh .. and I got a tank unit in the renaissance period through unit upgrades from ruins. Gotta say that that was a surprise to me and a couple target cities shortly tereafter.
AI seems to be doing Ok with tech most are in the Industrial or close to moving into it, so while not staying with me many are not that far behind.

Note if want to flesh out the techs for Industrial and erlier might look at RnR in Civ3 .. that mod had plenty in this period versus a couple.

Buddha2723
Nov 23, 2010, 10:38 PM
The slave already has the engineer production rush and that is what is causing the problem, so that would be pointless.

Also, I can't give it a % production rush. It is a base rush value and a multiplier value which I believe works off the number of turns played.

If I can figure out a way to implement it without the production bug and AI problems, I will. :)



Sorry, to be clear, I meant 25% of what the worker costs to produce. So 50(fifty) production if the worker costs 200(may want to tweak as low as 10% or as high as 50%). The AI's problem with the slave may be the flavor of a new non-combat unit it doesn't build the right amount of. It shouldn't be a problem with a modified worker, and the AI already over builds workers, imo. I am balance testing on king/marathon, with V7 fixed and the slave removed, the full report will be coming in a day or two. So far the early game is tough, but I'm not out of the game yet(300ish turns).

Buddha2723
Nov 23, 2010, 11:09 PM
Here is a pic with a standard defensive formation around a vulnerable city. Cities with rivers and mountains slowing or blocking the enemy are the absolute best positions(with a one hex pass best of the best).

As you can see, even scouts can survive spearmen when you hedgehog disciplined troops around a great general. With no nearby mountains or major rivers, my cities had to be coastal, the next most defensible. In the ensuing fight I lost a horse, warrior, and scout, but cost the enemy 2 to 3 times those casualties, plus razing a nearby city.

In this example, the enemy did not break through to threaten the city, but had they, I would have retreated wounded troops down the road towards the capital, and used the fleet of triremes, and garrisoned archer to kill invaders quickly(4 triremes, 1 horse archer, and one city for 6 total ranged attacks) even if all melee units die and/or retreat the archery could kill 2 units a turn.

I hope others will post pics of their own tactics and major battles, something this mod adds that vanilla lacks.

Azazell
Nov 24, 2010, 06:55 AM
I added files from FIX v7 and not working :( It`s the same error when create new game ;/

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 24, 2010, 08:10 AM
Good to see you guys enjoying it again. :)

I tried to balance the industrial buildings so that they are expensive to get off the ground but once you do they give you a real industrial revolution feel. How is that going?


I know this doesn't all apply to me, but I will respond were I think it matters. Maybe it was just warlord for me. I had so much gold that I just bought a lot of the industrial buildings. Once bought I could just make what I wanted. I was getting wonders in ~6 or less turns on standard. I do not know if that is what you want.


You mean you beelined to modern in 20 turns, or you had a significant portion of industrial techs researched in 20? Of course, industrial didn't exactly last very long, but I can try and cut out excessive beelining if it is too quick.

How is the AI handling tech? Do they fall behind at renaissance/industrial(as they do in previous versions) or are they managing to keep up?



For my game, You can watch the footage. Due to my warmongering and being I gain culture from kills I kept getting policies.

I saved one and at 7:22 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esXfhe2jfuo Went real deep into industrial. Now I did find out that I missed biology so couldn't build tanks; but if I had saved 2 GS I could have gone to modern quick. I don't know if there would have been an advantage. I was so far ahead on tech at this point (with neighbors) it isn't funny anymore.

It would be easy to get that policy for the two free techs (i did) and save it for a boom to something. Again; tanks need oil... blah blah blah.. there is a moment in video of, ah wait.. were is my oil?



I will be sure to take a look at these, thanks for the report. :) I was sure that I added a line for coast only to the habitat, but maybe not.



Playing on V7? Can you check to see if there are any <ID> lines in the units or unitclasses xml's? If you are good in that area, we will have to do some troubleshooting to see where this problem is coming from. I don't remember anyone reporting CTD problems with loadgame though, just that you couldn't.

I think someone said that ID's caused a CTD.

Bug note:
I don't know if it is the Mods used, or something else. In this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOIQBxKC-pM at ~2:56 you notice some of the yield icons do not show up.

Shylock76
Nov 24, 2010, 09:50 AM
Good to see you guys enjoying it again. :)

I tried to balance the industrial buildings so that they are expensive to get off the ground but once you do they give you a real industrial revolution feel. How is that going?

You mean you beelined to modern in 20 turns, or you had a significant portion of industrial techs researched in 20? Of course, industrial didn't exactly last very long, but I can try and cut out excessive beelining if it is too quick.

How is the AI handling tech? Do they fall behind at renaissance/industrial(as they do in previous versions) or are they managing to keep up?



I will be sure to take a look at these, thanks for the report. :) I was sure that I added a line for coast only to the habitat, but maybe not.



Playing on V7? Can you check to see if there are any <ID> lines in the units or unitclasses xml's? If you are good in that area, we will have to do some troubleshooting to see where this problem is coming from. I don't remember anyone reporting CTD problems with loadgame though, just that you couldn't.


Hmmm...well turns out i was playing on V5, updated to V7 and will try loading this evening, wlll advise if this sorts it out.

trotty
Nov 24, 2010, 12:40 PM
with fix 7, no burial tomb (nor temple) playing egyptian

chrome-rome
Nov 24, 2010, 02:45 PM
In the buildings xml, the harbor entry has updates to food twice, but no gold, so it only gives one food and one production to water tiles. I changed it in my version.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 24, 2010, 05:15 PM
with fix 7, no burial tomb (nor temple) playing egyptian

Really?

My game has them. v7. See attached. Maybe you don't have latest version? I don't know though.

Shylock76
Nov 25, 2010, 02:22 AM
Hmmm...well turns out i was playing on V5, updated to V7 and will try loading this evening, wlll advise if this sorts it out.

:rolleyes: sheesh....i was trying to load the save game in single player rather than loading it from within 'Mods'...all sorted

One other thing though, I notice that from the start of the game some nano tech wonder shows up from the start 'Warp detection array' or something like that

TanisX
Nov 25, 2010, 06:21 AM
:rolleyes: sheesh....i was trying to load the save game in single player rather than loading it from within 'Mods'...all sorted

One other thing though, I notice that from the start of the game some nano tech wonder shows up from the start 'Warp detection array' or something like that

Are you using any other mods that mess with eras or techs? Those related files still use manual IDs in this mod which causes many problems.

JSnider
Nov 25, 2010, 09:44 AM
I was getting the nano techs also ... only proc loaded, what I did was go and delete the earlier versions of proc in the mod folder (v5/v6, when installed did so into separate folders for each version) and it went away for me. No idea if will work for others but seems like if have the other versions still in the mod section the game gets confused. Again no idea only stating that it worked for me.

Also an observation .. seems like an age is missing between classical and midE. Jump right into knights and all so fast aas set now. Just a view.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 25, 2010, 05:25 PM
:rolleyes: sheesh....i was trying to load the save game in single player rather than loading it from within 'Mods'...all sorted

One other thing though, I notice that from the start of the game some nano tech wonder shows up from the start 'Warp detection array' or something like that

No worries, I did that before. Civ IV your saves would show up. It would prompt you to tell you you would load a mod.

Decimatus
Nov 25, 2010, 10:12 PM
Production bldgs cost to me is Ok .. for what you get makes sense, but for the others seems like overkill (average to bld a monument is like 17 turns .. don't know if can reduce cost with time but for some of the early buildings is like a long long long time). Took about 20 turns (no beeline) to get modern, hadn't even built more than 1 or 2 units before they were outdated with modern ones. Oh .. and I got a tank unit in the renaissance period through unit upgrades from ruins. Gotta say that that was a surprise to me and a couple target cities shortly tereafter.
AI seems to be doing Ok with tech most are in the Industrial or close to moving into it, so while not staying with me many are not that far behind.

Note if want to flesh out the techs for Industrial and erlier might look at RnR in Civ3 .. that mod had plenty in this period versus a couple.

17 turns for a monument on marathon? It is usually 6-9 on standard speed which seems about right for turn 1.

Can you give more specifics? Difficulty, gamespeed, map size, etc? :)

Industrial is 4 techs wide in this mod, which is 1 tech wider than standard. There really isn't much room to add more techs, but perhaps I can work the pipes a bit.

Sorry, to be clear, I meant 25% of what the worker costs to produce. So 50(fifty) production if the worker costs 200(may want to tweak as low as 10% or as high as 50%). The AI's problem with the slave may be the flavor of a new non-combat unit it doesn't build the right amount of. It shouldn't be a problem with a modified worker, and the AI already over builds workers, imo. I am balance testing on king/marathon, with V7 fixed and the slave removed, the full report will be coming in a day or two. So far the early game is tough, but I'm not out of the game yet(300ish turns).

Might not be a bad route, but probably only a route I would take if I were to implement a whole new line of workers that stretches to the future eras. I will keep this in mind for later. :)

Here is a pic with a standard defensive formation around a vulnerable city. Cities with rivers and mountains slowing or blocking the enemy are the absolute best positions(with a one hex pass best of the best).

I wish I had taken screens of some of my city setups. Out of the past 5-7 test games I have played, I have only lost 2 cities despite having an average of 3-5 units when the AI declared war on me. And of course the AI doesn't declare war until it's army is at your doorstep(one of it's few good points).

I hear the upcoming patch with make a couple interesting AI adjustments, so we will see how that affects things.

I added files from FIX v7 and not working It`s the same error when create new game ;/

Can you check and see if the fix files have .txt at the end of their file name? If so, delete this so that .xml is at the end.

I am not sure why this has been added, as the zip file I used does not show this problem.

I had so much gold that I just bought a lot of the industrial buildings. Once bought I could just make what I wanted. I was getting wonders in ~6 or less turns on standard. I do not know if that is what you want.

Do you have any examples of how much gold you had, how much gold per turn, and how much you were paying for the average industrial building? I had increased these things quite significantly so I could use some more specific examples of where it is at.

I don't know if there would have been an advantage. I was so far ahead on tech at this point (with neighbors) it isn't funny anymore.

Can you give me more info than this? I can't really get a picture of what is wrong with blanket statements like this.

It would be easy to get that policy for the two free techs (i did) and save it for a boom to something. Again; tanks need oil... blah blah blah.. there is a moment in video of, ah wait.. were is my oil?

Sounds like I will have to take a look and see if I can tie biology to combustion in some way.

with fix 7, no burial tomb (nor temple) playing egyptian

I wonder if I forgot to move the tomb onto mysticism. Can you check and see if the tomb is found on another tech?

In the buildings xml, the harbor entry has updates to food twice, but no gold, so it only gives one food and one production to water tiles. I changed it in my version.

Really? I will see if I can correct this for when I upload the final V7 to the hub. :)

One other thing though, I notice that from the start of the game some nano tech wonder shows up from the start 'Warp detection array' or something like that

Anyone else see this? I know that the project shows up on the correct tech but I haven't looked to see if it is produceable at turn 1.

I was getting the nano techs also ... only proc loaded, what I did was go and delete the earlier versions of proc in the mod folder (v5/v6, when installed did so into separate folders for each version) and it went away for me. No idea if will work for others but seems like if have the other versions still in the mod section the game gets confused. Again no idea only stating that it worked for me.

I have seen this a lot with this mod. I do not know if other mods have this problem. For some reason, prior versions of this mod somehow interfere with new versions. I don't know how this happens, and how it manifests seems pretty random.

All I can do is advise people to delete/archive(in case of a corrupt/bugged version) all older versions of this mod before updating to the newest.

Also an observation .. seems like an age is missing between classical and midE. Jump right into knights and all so fast aas set now. Just a view.

There isn't really an age missing, but I am looking into expanding ancient and classical so that they are at least 3 techs wide. Maybe even 4. If I do that, I will also epxand medieval to 4 wide. Will take a lot of thought and even more balancing though. This is a longterm goal.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 26, 2010, 10:17 AM
Do you have any examples of how much gold you had, how much gold per turn, and how much you were paying for the average industrial building? I had increased these things quite significantly so I could use some more specific examples of where it is at.



Can you give me more info than this? I can't really get a picture of what is wrong with blanket statements like this.



Sounds like I will have to take a look and see if I can tie biology to combustion in some way.


link to video thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=399439)
This has a link to all the games I am talking about.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gufLXjGVbKM) is a micro I did at part "Arabian nights (6.5)". That will show you ever city and what it is making. You can see all my in and out. Otherwise you can just spot check to see at different parts.

I do notice that specialized cities are very powerful. That is something I did in that game. I got a gold city going and never worried about money again. My capital was a production city; although I made more later. It was on warlord.

I hope that answers your questions.

edit:
I do want to note. I was only able to "boom" industrial. Once modern hit I had to go back to building; while I i was makeing close to 3k a turn none GA in the micro video.

JSnider
Nov 26, 2010, 10:45 AM
17 turns for a monument on marathon? It is usually 6-9 on standard speed which seems about right for turn 1. Can you give more specifics? Difficulty, gamespeed, map size, etc?
Have restarted the game on new map .. Huge,epic play. Also, diff is middle one can't remember what called at the moment (age has it's good points get to forget a lot and blame it on age these days). I'd say based on this go that the 1st go efffects had to do with the map (really poor area for start) cause now i'm producing things a lot faster ... Into Industrial and have about 1400+ gold a turn surplus and food is no problem and have 120 smillie faces. So unless get a bad start I'd have to say that hammers are about right, food and gold to generous. I hope to finish this go and start another, overall working fine until get so much money can purchase almost anything. Ai is staying about 1 tech age behind me at this point and each (as near as i can tell) has plenty of funds/happy faces also and supporting a very large military/navy force. Heck the brits had about 15 ships blockading a coast line (no idea why).



Industrial is 4 techs wide in this mod, which is 1 tech wider than standard. There really isn't much room to add more techs, but perhaps I can work the pipes a bit.

Pity ... really need to stretch out the early ages, possibly by breaking up what get for a tech, ie. if get 2-3 things in tech advance then break the items up amongst new techs? just an idea.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 26, 2010, 02:07 PM
17 turns for a monument on marathon? It is usually 6-9 on standard speed which seems about right for turn 1. Can you give more specifics? Difficulty, gamespeed, map size, etc?
Have restarted the game on new map .. Huge,epic play. Also, diff is middle one can't remember what called at the moment (age has it's good points get to forget a lot and blame it on age these days). I'd say based on this go that the 1st go efffects had to do with the map (really poor area for start) cause now i'm producing things a lot faster ... Into Industrial and have about 1400+ gold a turn surplus and food is no problem and have 120 smillie faces. So unless get a bad start I'd have to say that hammers are about right, food and gold to generous. I hope to finish this go and start another, overall working fine until get so much money can purchase almost anything. Ai is staying about 1 tech age behind me at this point and each (as near as i can tell) has plenty of funds/happy faces also and supporting a very large military/navy force. Heck the brits had about 15 ships blockading a coast line (no idea why).



Industrial is 4 techs wide in this mod, which is 1 tech wider than standard. There really isn't much room to add more techs, but perhaps I can work the pipes a bit.

Pity ... really need to stretch out the early ages, possibly by breaking up what get for a tech, ie. if get 2-3 things in tech advance then break the items up amongst new techs? just an idea.


I want to agree on this. I know this isn't your base; but the game I'm recording on warlord had a perfect storm start it seems. Other games I have started I have had bad starts that have crippled me. I don't think this is a bad thing though. Sometimes you get terrible start and have to work hard or lose. Sometimes you get a great start and everything is easy. Most the time it is in the middle. I feel like with your mod starting location is more important than with vanilla. I don't mind though.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 28, 2010, 12:41 AM
Here is video:
Way to many slaves! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmH8MKfFroQ)

I know you said you will fix; but this shows how the other civs abuse them too.

As I say in video..... Don't attack me America!

Decimatus
Nov 28, 2010, 01:23 PM
Into Industrial and have about 1400+ gold a turn surplus and food is no problem and have 120 smillie faces. So unless get a bad start I'd have to say that hammers are about right, food and gold to generous. I hope to finish this go and start another, overall working fine until get so much money can purchase almost anything. Ai is staying about 1 tech age behind me at this point and each (as near as i can tell) has plenty of funds/happy faces also and supporting a very large military/navy force. Heck the brits had about 15 ships blockading a coast line (no idea why).

1400 gold a turn but how many cities? And how much does it cost you to rushbuy a standard unit or building?

If the AI is 1 age behind you then it seems like they still fall behind in population come Renaissance age. I am going to see if I can get them to grow bigger cities. This will likely make them tougher to beat. Might see if I can adjust this for V8.

Pity ... really need to stretch out the early ages, possibly by breaking up what get for a tech, ie. if get 2-3 things in tech advance then break the items up amongst new techs? just an idea.

Its on my to do list, but I am not sure when it will happen. Its just a matter of fitting techs into those eras in a believeable and fun manner, and of course putting units and buildings in them.

I want to agree on this. I know this isn't your base; but the game I'm recording on warlord had a perfect storm start it seems. Other games I have started I have had bad starts that have crippled me. I don't think this is a bad thing though. Sometimes you get terrible start and have to work hard or lose. Sometimes you get a great start and everything is easy. Most the time it is in the middle. I feel like with your mod starting location is more important than with vanilla. I don't mind though.

Thats really how it is in any game of this genre. Where you start determines your game. Many people put too much emphasis on it though. Even with a bad start you should be able to make a comeback. In Call to Power there were many times when I would start in what I call an "Endless Swamp". Where you have swamps for days. A dozen, maybe even a few dozen tiles wide.

I always kind of chuckled when I ended up in an Endless Swamp for my start location, but it was fun to press on, because eventually you would find a good mountain range or a vast prairie and it was so beautiful. :p And of course in CtP, you could eventually teraform your swamp into whatever land you needed it to be. And those Aligators in the swamp were good trade goods anyway. :)

Anyway, even if you have a bad start, and sometimes especially if you have a bad start, the situation is always salvageable and in most cases the extra challenge is worth it if only for the fun of winning in spite of it.

At least for me anyway.

There is no such thing as an endless swamp in Civ 5, but I hope to find a map script that adds a diversity slider to the map generator, so that you can have a complete diverse landscape(civ 5), or at least the option to have games where endless swamps/deserts/prairies exist.

Here is video:
Way to many slaves!

I know you said you will fix; but this shows how the other civs abuse them too.

As I say in video..... Don't attack me America!

I want to watch your videos but dialup doesn't like videos. :)

Slaves will be removed for the final V7 release, but maybe they will come back at a later date.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 28, 2010, 01:41 PM
ok, on a small "earth" map every square in Africa top bulb has a slave on on. I will say about 60 slaves! Yeah I knew you were removing them; but it was kinda a OMG moment.

This game I got sandwiched and am pulling ahead now. I am going for science, so here is hoping. Yes you can still get era's ahead of the AI. IUS could kill me if America ever decides it doesn't like me; 60 slaves aside. An having level 12 destroyer is fun. :) Built one ship, leveled it all game.

Upgrading to rocket artillery still has set up bug? Was that supposed to be fixed in 7? or just known?

Decimatus
Nov 28, 2010, 03:33 PM
ok, on a small "earth" map every square in Africa top bulb has a slave on on. I will say about 60 slaves! Yeah I knew you were removing them; but it was kinda a OMG moment.

This game I got sandwiched and am pulling ahead now. I am going for science, so here is hoping. Yes you can still get era's ahead of the AI. IUS could kill me if America ever decides it doesn't like me; 60 slaves aside. An having level 12 destroyer is fun. :) Built one ship, leveled it all game.

Upgrading to rocket artillery still has set up bug? Was that supposed to be fixed in 7? or just known?

Pretty sure the reason players get ahead of the AI in eras is the lower AI population growth. I have to look into some variables that the AI looks at to determine how big to grow it's cities, so hopefully I can raise those levels a bit.

I think I noticed the rocket artillery setup in one of my test games. I wil look into this and see if I can remove it, maybe V7, but at least by V8.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 28, 2010, 04:30 PM
V7 Hollywood wonder shows the pentagon picture.

Upgrading to combat controller was only 215 gold. Seems cheap when rocket artillery was 1.5k or something close.

EDIT:
CTD while buying, applying slaves to hurry production in all cities. Kinda seems like explotive to pay 180 gold to shave 1 turn of a production of something. Make slaves change with the times? (When you put them back in). I log everything I think. If you tell me were to look I will send the log files. Saving everything before I replay.

EDIT 2:
C2D in same spot. Late game. I try and click on a city to buy a slave. Will try doing different things; WWWAAAAHHHHH!!!! I was going to win science after being badgered all game long!!!

JSnider
Nov 28, 2010, 06:28 PM
1400 gold a turn but how many cities? .. At that time about 43/44 cities

And how much does it cost you to rushbuy a standard unit or building? .. To buy a rifleman cost ~760, a fishing boat ~ 150, barracks hmm about 400. If want I can ck the game and get all the numbers at this point.
Having crash issues at this point .. nothing to do with the mod, more graphics as game starts to pan to another location and the map freezes in transit. Had this with the regular game also .. so time to tune the diplay and see if can get around it.

If the AI is 1 age behind you then it seems like they still fall behind in population come Renaissance age. .. Agree as it appears were keeping up founding cities and such for the 1st couple eras and then stopped. Have seen some settlers moving around but they don't seem to use them to found a city in the later stages of the game .. and there is plenty of open terrain and islands around. Can't prove it but in the 2 games it is almost like they go to war and stop founding new cities or cut back dramatically.

I am going to see if I can get them to grow bigger cities. This will likely make them tougher to beat. Might see if I can adjust this for V8. .. Sounds like a good idea to me at this point, whereas I would settle sub-optimal locations for potential strategic value, the AI seems to have other guiding principles.

Oh and have to say they buy a lot of slaves as do the city-states .. me I avoid these.

Decimatus
Nov 28, 2010, 08:12 PM
V7 Hollywood wonder shows the pentagon picture.

Upgrading to combat controller was only 215 gold. Seems cheap when rocket artillery was 1.5k or something close.

Wonders that do not have a splash image will often show the last image that was displayed. So this is most likely what you saw.

EDIT:
CTD while buying, applying slaves to hurry production in all cities. Kinda seems like explotive to pay 180 gold to shave 1 turn of a production of something. Make slaves change with the times? (When you put them back in). I log everything I think. If you tell me were to look I will send the log files. Saving everything before I replay.

EDIT 2:
C2D in same spot. Late game. I try and click on a city to buy a slave. Will try doing different things; WWWAAAAHHHHH!!!! I was going to win science after being badgered all game long!!!

Can you tell me how much production a slave is adding renaissance-modern? I know it scales, but I was only able to test it up to classical.

The CTD's when you hit the buy button are probably tied to the bug causing inability to change production. When I try and implement them in the future I will have to fix this core issue before I even consider it. I may download a few other mods that use the unit rush mechanic to compare and see what is going wrong.

To buy a rifleman cost ~760, a fishing boat ~ 150, barracks hmm about 400. If want I can ck the game and get all the numbers at this point.
Having crash issues at this point .. nothing to do with the mod, more graphics as game starts to pan to another location and the map freezes in transit. Had this with the regular game also .. so time to tune the diplay and see if can get around it.

For 43 cities, being able to rush 2 rifleman a turn sounds ok. My main concern with that would be whether the AI is also making use of the large gold supplies to rush units. I think they are, but perhaps not in the most efficient manner.

Another concern I have is the number of missiles and aircraft you can rush a turn. It is possible to rush so many missiles in a turn that you win with them alone, so that has to be looked at. Might possibly increase their rush multiplier and decrease their overall range a bit to make them more of a tactical weapon instead of a strategic army destroying factor.

Also, I plan to implement aircraft and missile stack limits as soon as I get around to investigating it.

Agree as it appears were keeping up founding cities and such for the 1st couple eras and then stopped. Have seen some settlers moving around but they don't seem to use them to found a city in the later stages of the game .. and there is plenty of open terrain and islands around. Can't prove it but in the 2 games it is almost like they go to war and stop founding new cities or cut back dramatically.

Well I have read in the upcoming patch notes that the devs are going to make it so that the AI go after the islands and unpopulated continents more. That should help a bit.

Sounds like a good idea to me at this point, whereas I would settle sub-optimal locations for potential strategic value, the AI seems to have other guiding principles.

I would like to greatly increase AI city sizes while increasing the minimum city distance to 3 to cut down on city sprawl. I don't want to hamstring the AI though, so I will see if I can fix their city sizes first and then fix the sprawl at a later date.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 28, 2010, 08:33 PM
I avoided changing production, buying things, etc. Hitting end turn CTD. I can not progress on that game. :(

gotcha on the image for the wonder. that was in fact last wonder I built.

At my point in game I could buy a slave for 180 gold. That would take 1 turn of production in my large city. It was over 200 production; I did not check actual hammer count. As I can't progress game (and started another) I am un able to test that until a later game.

As slaves are leaving your mod for now anyway; I would not worry about it yet other than notes for future addition back in.

FYI - Next game I seem to have sling shotted into a great lead. Horse rush to puppet neighbors is still very powerful.

Buddha2723
Nov 29, 2010, 09:20 AM
If the AI is 1 age behind you then it seems like they still fall behind in population come Renaissance age. I am going to see if I can get them to grow bigger cities. This will likely make them tougher to beat. Might see if I can adjust this for V8.

I believe the AI always focuses on great people. Unless you know a way to change this, the only way to force them to grow is to cut down on specialists before the industrial age, so they have to work the land. There is probably some value you can double or triple, to make the AI prioritize food instead of GP points, or production, that it probably overdoes now.

NEW SCENARIO! Look for it on the hub, under "Buddha2723's World War II Scenario" (here is the description, it uses an altered map from the USvsWorld scenario)
Play as US, UK commonwealth, France, Russia, or China on the allied side, or play as one of the three major axis powers of Germany, Japan, and Italy. This map is specially made to be played with Procylon's Call to Power Project, with it's many great additions, including the all important machine gunner. Version 7 of the project will be released soon, get it, and play a much deeper civ game. Enjoy, everyone!

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 29, 2010, 09:31 AM
I believe the AI always focuses on great people. Unless you know a way to change this, the only way to force them to grow is to cut down on specialists before the industrial age, so they have to work the land. There is probably some value you can double or triple, to make the AI prioritize food instead of GP points, or production, that it probably overdoes now.

NEW SCENARIO! Look for it on the hub, under "Buddha2723's World War II Scenario" (here is the description, it uses an altered map from the USvsWorld scenario)
Play as US, UK commonwealth, France, Russia, or China on the allied side, or play as one of the three major axis powers of Germany, Japan, and Italy. This map is specially made to be played with Procylon's Call to Power Project, with it's many great additions, including the all important machine gunner. Version 7 of the project will be released soon, get it, and play a much deeper civ game. Enjoy, everyone!

Drinking coffee at work. Mmm.

I just had a thought. I see my puppets are growing nicely; can you mod some puppet thoughts to the computer AI? Is that DLL Moding? If it is maybe it is a thought.

I think you have a good point here. This leads me to these questions:

:confused: Can the AI specialize cities?
:confused: Can you see if they are building the +:c5food:% buildings?
Maybe that is all you need to do is give those a high priority.
:confused: Even if you specialize with the +:c5food:% buildings your cities grow with very few tiles worked?

Just random coffee break thoughts. Back to work. 5 days off (Look at WA state and snow + Thanks & Giving Holiday) I only had 2k e-mails this morning.

JSnider
Nov 29, 2010, 11:27 AM
Another concern I have is the number of missiles and aircraft you can rush a turn. It is possible to rush so many missiles in a turn that you win with them alone, so that has to be looked at. Might possibly increase their rush multiplier and decrease their overall range a bit to make them more of a tactical weapon instead of a strategic army destroying factor ..

Is it possible to make certain units unbuyable or something. Can always have them only produced by a building to get around this (limits number .. building requires say 10-15 iron so can't build a lot of them also). Just random thoughts.

Data662
Nov 29, 2010, 01:38 PM
How do I make the files become xml files?
nvm you do save as and then type .xml at the end.
:crazyeye:

Buddha2723
Nov 29, 2010, 09:51 PM
They finally got me, darn Askia and his special knights. Balance was good, my start was just too poor, but I did take a capital before I fell. Still, 450 turns on marathon, king setting ain't bad. It seems if you are going to play a harder difficulty, starting further back increases your difficulty(I started ancient, whoops).

I've been thinking of a few buildings and units to add for techs with only a wonder in them. Here's what I've come up with.

Tech/Type/Name/Description
Polytheism/Unit/Fanatic/8 STR, 2 moves, - 50% vs land units(good to take cities)
Meditation/Building/Prayer Garden/+1 culture, +1 happiness
Monotheism/Unit/Temple Guard/10 STR, 1 move, +25% vs mounted(extra expensive, early pikemen)
Poetry/Unit/Warrior Monk/ 9 STR, 3 moves, - 50% vs mounted
Literature/building/Grammar School/+5 Science
Algebra/building/Alchemist's Lab/+10 science
Calculus/building/Private College/+15 science
Marxism/building/Communal farms/+2 production per farm
Vaccines/building/Research Hospital/+30 science

I'll have to really think for the techs in modern and beyond. I realize many of these are a stretch, but sometimes bad ideas can lead to good ones. Hope some of mine make the cut.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 29, 2010, 10:04 PM
Just won a culture win on Prince. That mean I have to up the difficulty now? I should finish my warlord game though.

This was a run away. I explain a few things in my video of the last turn. It also shows the mods used and settings used for game at beginning of video. It is short so don't worry.

My win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc4qMDQ7ToM)
:spear:

edit: Youtube ate my sound. I will work on it in morning. I need sleep.
Edit2: Morning. here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay5xRQOv6cY) is video with my sound. I explain the stuff at the end.

JSnider
Nov 30, 2010, 10:14 AM
Well looks like gotta start a new game as can't get past lookup when the game pans from one location to another for this one (i'll still try backing up a few saves to see if can get around). Lowered the graphics and still nada .. wonder if the saves are getting corrupted as they get bigger. have had with other mods and plain vanilla, so either rig or basic game engine.

lawyergamer
Nov 30, 2010, 10:53 AM
I'm having a lot of fun with this mod, but I'm experiencing some unbearable slowdown. I'm playing on a large map, pangaea, standard time, on prince. By turn 150, it's taking about 20-30 seconds between turns. Usually I don't experience this in the vanilla game at all (maybe endgame on huge map).

Anyone have any suggestions about what to change? Is it too many civilizations? Is it the constant warring from being on a pangaea map (along with the giant AI armies from the increased production and gold in the mod)? Or is it something specific to the mod like the AI creating too many slaves?

Any suggestions are appreciated since I'd really like to play with this mod but don't have the time to wait around so much!

TanisX
Nov 30, 2010, 03:07 PM
JSnider: Loading problems are caused by having manual ID assgined in the two units???. xml files. I think there is a link to fixed xml files a few pages back.


lawyergamer: I think the slowdown is caused by too many workers made by the AI.

Pablod
Nov 30, 2010, 03:22 PM
how you play it
i can not load any map

Yanikin_Tinkard
Nov 30, 2010, 04:04 PM
is there a comment line? If so it makes bad code; but if <id> is at the beginning of the line can you change it to "<!--" and than change "</id>" to "-->". This would comment out a line in xml code.. I don't know moding in Civ5 though isn't it xml?

Replace all would have fix that in a snap. Again would have weird comments; but if it works for us fanatics who cares.

Edit:

Find and replace as I say above works just fine. Do one than other and it will comment out all the lines you don't want.

Added fixed files in txt format.

Well looks like gotta start a new game as can't get past lookup when the game pans from one location to another for this one (i'll still try backing up a few saves to see if can get around). Lowered the graphics and still nada .. wonder if the saves are getting corrupted as they get bigger. have had with other mods and plain vanilla, so either rig or basic game engine.

how you play it
i can not load any map

Go to my previous post. It has fixed XML files. Alternately they should be up on the source forge site in a zip. If you use mine make sure to rename them from .txt to .xml files. Replace the current .xml files with the fixed one and it should work just fine. I hope this helps.

Eduardo Dacal
Dec 01, 2010, 07:30 AM
Hi,

I'm excited to try this mod. It seem to be fantastic.

Before trying something, let me ask some basically questions:

How do I install this mod? (suggestion: this kind of information should be in the first post)

If I have a steam version, does it work normally?

Could you post some screens of the game? (tech tree, wonders, etc)

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 01, 2010, 08:38 AM
Hi,

I'm excited to try this mod. It seem to be fantastic.

Before trying something, let me ask some basically questions:

How do I install this mod? (suggestion: this kind of information should be in the first post)

If I have a steam version, does it work normally?

Could you post some screens of the game? (tech tree, wonders, etc)

Decimatus -

Per Eduardo Dacal's request; would you be interested in a YouTube video showing the tech tree, and Civipedia? The tech tree obviously would be easy to do; the Civipedia would take more time. I know this would also have to be updated with each version you create.

I wouldn't mind taking the time if you are interested in having that. I will do no sound, but click on each entry in the page in order. I am unsure how long the video(s) will be. If you are interested in this (as I love this mod, and want it to grow) just ask and I will get them made for you. Tech tree first.

Yanikin

Eduardo Dacal
Dec 02, 2010, 12:35 PM
Decimatus -

Per Eduardo Dacal's request; would you be interested in a YouTube video showing the tech tree, and Civipedia? The tech tree obviously would be easy to do; the Civipedia would take more time. I know this would also have to be updated with each version you create.

I wouldn't mind taking the time if you are interested in having that. I will do no sound, but click on each entry in the page in order. I am unsure how long the video(s) will be. If you are interested in this (as I love this mod, and want it to grow) just ask and I will get them made for you. Tech tree first.

Yanikin

Well, I thought that screenshots would be easier, but I have no doubt that Youtube videos coulb be fantastic. If can do it, I'll be really glad.

And what about the instalation. Is that easy?

Another thing, just looking in the first/second post list, I've missed the Moai Statues Wonder. Could it be done?

Anyway, I liked a lot includind the Nazca Lines. It was forgotten by modders in CIV IV.

I have a wonders wish list that I would like to see in Civ V. If it helps I can post it here.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 02, 2010, 12:47 PM
Well, I thought that screenshots would be easier, but I have no doubt that Youtube videos coulb be fantastic. If can do it, I'll be really glad.

And what about the instalation. Is that easy?

Another thing, just looking in the first/second post list, I've missed the Moai Statues Wonder. Could it be done?

Anyway, I liked a lot includind the Nazca Lines. It was forgotten by modders in CIV IV.

I have a wonders wish list that I would like to see in Civ V. If it helps I can post it here.

I guess easier is dependent. I take screen shots by recording the game in video format. I than use a video editor to take screen captures of the video. So for my way a screen capture is secondary to a video all ready.

I guess the reason I thought video is that for the tech tree that makes a lot more sense to me. But maybe it is just me.

For the civpedia I guess if I went screen capture I could make an online site like someone else did with the vanilla one. Once the base is done I would only have to update what you update.

What do others think? What do others want? Some form of media would be great; so open to ideas.

Decimatus
Dec 02, 2010, 09:18 PM
Hey guys, I am back in broadband land. :)

I have been trying to get a clean V7 up on source forge but the gods hate me(or they hate my laptop), so I am going to have to try more later. I am beginning the trek home with a few pit stops, so I won't be back at my desktop until the ~6th.

So, I might get a clean version up before then, but most likely it will have to wait until I am home. Until then I have removed V7 from sourceforge and will relaunch it as soon as I can.

Once I get home and finally clean up this mess, then I will begin work on implementing optional tech pages, and some buildings that produce resources(such as electricity).

I got some other things I also want to do with the newest nanotech age units regarding forcefield promotions. :)

But anyway, vacation is almost over, so I will be back to work soon! :cry:

Eduardo Dacal
Dec 03, 2010, 10:46 AM
I guess easier is dependent. I take screen shots by recording the game in video format. I than use a video editor to take screen captures of the video. So for my way a screen capture is secondary to a video all ready.

I guess the reason I thought video is that for the tech tree that makes a lot more sense to me. But maybe it is just me.

For the civpedia I guess if I went screen capture I could make an online site like someone else did with the vanilla one. Once the base is done I would only have to update what you update.

What do others think? What do others want? Some form of media would be great; so open to ideas.

Ok , I'll wait for the videos.

Thanks a lot.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 03, 2010, 09:34 PM
I have Tech tree recorded and uploaded:
Ancient Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq0__lqVhe8
Classical Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5fPVtPHFlc
Medieval Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQznETH6Obg
Renaissance Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVMFlpD6MH8
Industrial Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjEexXmyRrc
Modern Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fDdZv7hzZY
Digital Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqo1WTNwXkQ
NanoTech Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA4ce3xmGwo
Diamond Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3Xy-p8S_cI

I have the Civilopedia Technology entries Uploaded:
Ancient Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDaEqpOU01c
Classical Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk95p2eOBCo
Medieval Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMBlysWcA4o
Renaissance Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffh38md8Tjg
Industrial Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmVkhcJrR5M
Modern Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxvIgohkylU
Digital Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fOqsNigH8E
NanoTech Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvyht-KhqdU
Diamond Era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSyHKRzXFYk

I will get to more later. Enjoy.

D -

If you want to link these on your main page you can.

Buddha2723
Dec 04, 2010, 09:08 AM
https://sourceforge.net/projects/buddha2723/files/ is where I've posted my two map files, I was unable to keep them from being corrupted when I used modbuddy. US vs World has many Call to Power specific buildings, but should work fine if the mod is not loaded. Let me know if I'm wrong about this. WW2 scenario should be plenty fun to play on this mod as well, so enjoy, and post screenshots to my separate posts in the scenarios forum.

Denehan
Dec 04, 2010, 04:11 PM
I'm terribly sorry to ask, but has anyone else had issues with the tech tree? I installed what I believe is V7, and the entire tech tree screen has disappeared. It is either that or I get the tech tree but it doesn't show anything on the bar where it shows what you unlock when you research that corresponding tech, if that makes any sense.

chrome-rome
Dec 05, 2010, 04:44 PM
@Denehan: The only thing I can think of is that you have multilple copies of this mod open or you have two mods that are conflicting with each other.

Glad to see that you're back Decimatus. Can't wait to try out the next version. Currently I am in the modern era from an ancient start (furthest I've ever gone with this mod since my computer runs it reaally slow) and i have a few opinions/observations that I want to share. The game is played on a huge map with emperor difficulty. At current, there are 7 ai left (soon to be five). I have just researched flight and am working toward mech infantry. My opponents don't even have infantry.

Warning: Large text wall.

1) I think the fact that the ai fails to keep up with the player in later eras is due to two problems. First, I don't think the ai prioritizes infastructure : they are completely focused on war. If the human can hold on, he/she will come out ahead. Note this is not tested (the part about them ignoring infastructure), but merely a theory. Secondly, the human makes use of great people more effectively than the ai. More specifically, the human will prioritize that Great Scientist over the Artist (or any other great person to be honest) and when it arrives, the human uses it pop a tech.

While I think your mod does a good job limiting the "beelining" potetial that was present in vanilla, it is still too easy for a human player to gain a substantial lead on the ai by bulbing techs. I think it would be better to revert to some kind of Civ 4 formula, where scientist finish techs up to a specific point, and then they lose effectivenenss. Or perhaps (and I like this method better but it could be hard to impliment), make great people improvements more worthwhile than their "speciallity." Right now, I think only the engineer does this. I'm thinking that, upon reaching certain science techs, give bonuses to the academy (not necessarily all researched based either; maybe add some gold/food). This way they scale with eras. However, they should be slightly more powerful than the bulbing option, so the player has to choose between immidiate rewards or stronger long-term benifits. In this same fashion, currently the Great Artist is hugely underpowered. Their improvement only gives four(!) culture, throughout the entire game (or at least through the modern era). This has to be compared with the manufactury, which was making a riverside plain generate somewhere around twenty production. I think it needs a boost (as do all the great people improvements, except maybe the manufactury, as you do a great job keeping it current).

2) This ties a little in with the first observation, but in my game, the top of the tech tree (the so-called peaceful branch) was completely untouched until well into the midgame. (This might be because of the battle ai mod that I am using with this one; I don't know for sure though, so I will put it here). This allowed me to shoot past the ai by signing research pacts with all of the other ai (two dropped bc of DOW but I still netted 5 techs, while each ai only received one). Perhaps you could balance the agreement by making it so that both players must have philosophy unlocked before an agreement can be locked. This perhaps is the single greatest reason why I shot past the ai. Another problem with this is that the wonders that improve culture, and more importantly, great people were passed over. I went back and got all of them, with the result that I could get a scientist about every five turns (with only two cities working on producing them). This, in turn, fed the tech explosion.

3) Once I shot past the ai, there was little they could do to keep up. Specifically, upon entering the renaissance - early industrial, techs that increase specifics yields become highly common. It would be really hard to keep pace with someone who gains three more gold for every trading post and 2 more production for every mine or lumbermill (just examples, I don't remember the specifics, but it wasn't pretty for the ai). I think it would be benifitial to balancing if each tech only increase on specific yield, say mines, at a time. When I had my scientist, I would bulb the tech that either had the best building or the one that gave me the best improvement bonuses. If one tech only improved mines production and another only improved lumbermill production, I think it would be easier for ai to keep up. This way it forces the player to decide what is most important and it spread those all-important improvements throughout many different techs. The same can be said for many of the late industrial-early modern buildings. I remember hitting some kind of tipping point where I knew I would have to screw up hugely for the ai to have a shot. I have yet to do that :). I don't think it would have been a problem if the ai was keeping constant pressure on me, to the point that I had to get military techs, but by that time I was already slightly advanced. These bonuses helped to feed my growth, which leads to the next problem...

4) Happiness is waay to easy to come by. It's fine in the early game when the main thing is expansion, but come mid-late game, it really gets out of hand. I have about 300 surplus right now, but half less than half of the luxury resourses. I think the problem is that most buildings that you added happiness to also gave some other benifit that would make them worthwhile regarless (like the sewer system). Perhaps consider making buildings that only give happiness, and then charge them an equal (or more) amount in maintainence (not like I can't afford it; +12K a turn). I think more buildings like the theater should be added. I don't mean for you to take out the new buildings, just put their happiness providing effects in a specified building. Or perhaps work out a way so that each extra city added (whether by settling, conquest, or trade) gives more unhappy citizens than those before. This way, you have to make sure your empire is already relatively stable before taking a new city.

5) Culture wins can potentially come too early. As I mentioned above, a lot of the culture techs were left alone, allowing me to grab the benifits. I could have completed the five branches by the 1400's if I had really tried to do so. Right now I am getting a new policy every 4-5 turns (my many puppets helping in this respect). My main problem with it is that I like to have long games. I think the culture win can potentially shorten them. I still want it to be a viable condition (which is why I didn't disable it). Could you make it so that six trees or more must be completed? Also, while we are on the subject of culture, as others have mentioned, some ploicies are just laughable compared to the benifits already received. Plus one food in capitol? Who needs it when I'm making 150+ a turn? I know that you said you plan to rework the system, so I'll just patiently wait until that time comes...

6) It is implied, by watching the city allowcation of workers, that the ai highly favor specialist. This is probably a large part of their delayed progression. As the tiles are so lucrative, each turn that they are not working them is a turn where the human gains (of course if they decide to speciallize a city to great people production than that is fine, but I highly doubt that that is what is happening).

/text wall

Now that that's finished, let me say again that I really do enjoy this mod; it makes many improvements to the vanilla version but still retains the feel of a civ game. I particullary love the early game, as so much of it is tactics. As others have said here, the ai is tough. One wrong move early on and your city is lost. I just wish that the entire game would be like that... I think there was more that I wanted to say, but I have forgotten (knew I should have taken notes). If I remember, I'll be sure to let you know.

PS: Is there a way to make cities add speciallist if all workable tiles are full? I don't want to just run all speciallist since the yields are sooo good, but I hate having to cycle through my cities every turn to make my unemployed citizens useful. Doesn't really matter what specialist they run, so long as it is not a regular citizen.

EDIT: Just like Yanikin below, I am well aware that this mod is far from finished - just thinking that makes me happy with anticipation. I just want to bring to your attention some of the more glaring balance issues i have come across...

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 05, 2010, 05:35 PM
5) Culture wins can potentially come too early. As I mentioned above, a lot of the culture techs were left alone, allowing me to grab the benifits. I could have completed the five branches by the 1400's if I had really tried to do so. Right now I am getting a new policy every 4-5 turns (my many puppets helping in this respect). My main problem with it is that I like to have long games. I think the culture win can potentially shorten them. I still want it to be a viable condition (which is why I didn't disable it). Could you make it so that six trees or more must be completed? Also, while we are on the subject of culture, as others have mentioned, some ploicies are just laughable compared to the benifits already received. Plus one food in capitol? Who needs it when I'm making 150+ a turn? I know that you said you plan to rework the system, so I'll just patiently wait until that time comes...


I agree on culture. See my culture win vid. It was easy.

D -

I would take most this in stride though. I know you are far from finished with this mod. I also know that there is a lot of tweeking to be done before this mod is balanced.

Edit:
Maybe this takes teh SDK kit, but I think the best fix for human out teching ai is going to be random bulbing. Yes bulbing a tech will be good; but a random one will keep from beelineing 3, 4 techs deap.

Edit 2:
No one has posted, so I will edit. I know in Civ 5 they say that you don't have to put roads everywhere... I disagree. I think this applies extra in this mod where there is IUS going on.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 05, 2010, 09:19 PM
EDIT: Just like Yanikin below, I am well aware that this mod is far from finished - just thinking that makes me happy with anticipation. I just want to bring to your attention some of the more glaring balance issues i have come across...

I do not want you think I'm pointing at you. I hope you didn't feel that way.

chrome-rome
Dec 05, 2010, 10:57 PM
Oh no worries. I was actually thinking about putting in a part similar to where you said it was far from finished, but I thought the post was long enough as is. Besides, we both want the same thing - for this mod to be the best that it can be (/cheesy). But for real, I didn't take it that way.

One that note, Decimatus do you have any graphic designers? Unfortunately, I don't design, but I asked because seeing the agriculture pic for very military-oriented techs is just a little off. More pressing are the units and thier portraits; it would be cool for each unit to have its own design (perhaps long term).

I don't think you should focus on this now, though, as there are more important things to work out (looking forward to that multi-page social/government setup). In that regard, have you seen the D.U.C.K.S. mod by lemmy and Captain Blinky? There are some seriously impressive ideas in that mod which could give you some ideas about this great mod. Or, in a perfect world, you could impliment the mod into CTP :yup:

JSnider
Dec 06, 2010, 08:48 PM
Hmm infrastructure, have conquered 2 French towns and basically nothing built in them .. so unless everything goes when conquer don't seem to be building much. In latest game though most civ's are staying close in tech arena. I'm ahead but not by much. Playing with the map creation have found that if pick the 'excessive resources', or whatever called, and lower the number of ai's (so start wars later) they tend to do better at RnD and keeping up with you. Heck if not careful they come near to eliminating you if don't build your own military. The GSci guy is the only way am keeping the edge on them and I am in the industrial age and so are 3-4 of the ai's in the game (to include those dang French dudes).

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 07, 2010, 03:29 PM
Hmm infrastructure, have conquered 2 French towns and basically nothing built in them .. so unless everything goes when conquer don't seem to be building much. In latest game though most civ's are staying close in tech arena. I'm ahead but not by much. Playing with the map creation have found that if pick the 'excessive resources', or whatever called, and lower the number of ai's (so start wars later) they tend to do better at RnD and keeping up with you. Heck if not careful they come near to eliminating you if don't build your own military. The GSci guy is the only way am keeping the edge on them and I am in the industrial age and so are 3-4 of the ai's in the game (to include those dang French dudes).

I believe all buildings are lost on conquer. That is annoying when you trade a city back and forth for a while as the city does nothing till the decision is final.

Decimatus
Dec 08, 2010, 02:40 AM
Sorry for the long absence guys. My travel plans had to undergo some major adjustments, which resulted in me spend an extra week sightseeing in Seattle and Tokyo. Should be taking a train home tomorrow or the next day. Theoretically anyway. :)

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 08, 2010, 08:38 AM
Sorry for the long absence guys. My travel plans had to undergo some major adjustments, which resulted in me spend an extra week sightseeing in Seattle and Tokyo. Should be taking a train home tomorrow or the next day. Theoretically anyway. :)

You know you enjoyed it here in Seattle. It is lovely up here this time of year. Minus the rain and snow and gray and dark.

Well I like the rain and gray and dark... just not the snow. But Seattle is great.

Azazell
Dec 09, 2010, 04:39 AM
Where I find v7 ?? On the SourceForge i find only Procylon_s Call to Power Project (v 6).civ5mod - 6.6 mb.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 09, 2010, 08:16 AM
Where I find v7 ?? On the SourceForge i find only Procylon_s Call to Power Project (v 6).civ5mod - 6.6 mb.

I beleive he said he took 7 down for now due to issues.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 09, 2010, 09:47 AM
D -

Have you considered trying the harder free tech mod? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9895804#post9895804

This might help with over teching the AI? I know that I have sling shotted 3 techs down before. I used the science free 2 SP and a GS to go 3 down to rifling I think. I know I went 3 down and had a huge advantage. I would not have been able to do this with that mod. It might work with yours (I would ask him for usage and give credit) in slowing down the human from huge tech advantages. Maybe it won't have an effect.

Redx
Dec 09, 2010, 12:00 PM
some people might not like the cities in water..and space... but i have always wanted a progression in civilization that would continue in game.. to the alpha centurie which was a great game like civ3..

maybe the aspect to launch a space shuttle could be more expensive and would require diplomacy trading to finance the colossal project..where the less fortunate civ could continue on to the next level and start off on another planet thus giving every one a second chance to wage war or gain points..maybe also adding a little bonus to the new starting civ that completed the project thought it could interfer with different victory types like war...on that planet.. i personally would love seeing that later on as an addition to the game.. in an expansion or simply a mod option..

Decimatus
Dec 09, 2010, 09:59 PM
Uploading a hopefully fixed V7 to sourceforge. If a few people can download this to see if it works, including saving/loading, I would appreciate it.

Removed the slave and fixed many broken text strings in the nano age. I might do a few more fixes here and there before I upload to the modhub. Right now I just need to see that the prior issues are gone.

Later on, maybe in the next few days, I will try to go back through the last couple pages of this thread and address any questions or ideas that people have had which I have not been able to get to.

You know you enjoyed it here in Seattle. It is lovely up here this time of year. Minus the rain and snow and gray and dark.

Well I like the rain and gray and dark... just not the snow. But Seattle is great.

4 days was more than enough for me, at least vacation-wise. :p Actually it wasn't so bad. It was mostly sunny for my stay. I can see the winters really sucking with snow on all those crazy hills. I didn't know Seattle was so vertical.

It seems like a decent city I could move to one day, though my wife hates rain, and driving on those hills when they are iced over sounds like a nightmare.

Have you considered trying the harder free tech mod?

I have actually. It sounds like a decent system, though I am contemplating another route where you can't bulb any of the techs in the main tree. Couldn't really do this until I have a sufficient amount of optional tech pages though.

I could possibly do both, but I will wait until I get the optional pages implemented before I start working on that.

some people might not like the cities in water..and space... but i have always wanted a progression in civilization that would continue in game.. to the alpha centurie which was a great game like civ3..

maybe the aspect to launch a space shuttle could be more expensive and would require diplomacy trading to finance the colossal project..where the less fortunate civ could continue on to the next level and start off on another planet thus giving every one a second chance to wage war or gain points..maybe also adding a little bonus to the new starting civ that completed the project thought it could interfer with different victory types like war...on that planet.. i personally would love seeing that later on as an addition to the game.. in an expansion or simply a mod option..

It would be interesting, but I doubt we will ever see it go quite that far in Civ 5.

If I see someone pump out a system that lets you do something akin to alpha centauri though, I will see if I can build a third or fourth future era around the concept. :)

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 09, 2010, 10:07 PM
Uploading a hopefully fixed V7 to sourceforge. If a few people can download this to see if it works, including saving/loading, I would appreciate it.

Removed the slave and fixed many broken text strings in the nano age. I might do a few more fixes here and there before I upload to the modhub. Right now I just need to see that the prior issues are gone.


I might get a chance. Not tonight though.

On slave thing, what about a caravan? Someone else made one. Maybe you can talk to them to see how they did it? I forget which mod I say it in.


Later on, maybe in the next few days, I will try to go back through the last couple pages of this thread and address any questions or ideas that people have had which I have not been able to get to.



4 days was more than enough for me, at least vacation-wise. :p Actually it wasn't so bad. It was mostly sunny for my stay. I can see the winters really sucking with snow on all those crazy hills. I didn't know Seattle was so vertical.

It seems like a decent city I could move to one day, though my wife hates rain, and driving on those hills when they are iced over sounds like a nightmare.



It was crazy the 3 days of snow we had before thanksgiving. I ride van pool. We opted to go home at noon and work remotely. Thank you internet and laptop from work. We got home ok, but I heard anywhere from 6 hours to 12 hours to get home. One poor guy was on bus for those 12 hours. He got home at like 5 something in the morning after leaving the night before.

Yeah, we don't do good in snow. And for hills, there is something called "The Denny Roll-back" Denny is a main street (if you didn't find it) that is probably one of the steepest. It gets that from old manual transmissions. Comedians used to do bits on telling people behind them to go around because they didn't want to roll back.



I have actually. It sounds like a decent system, though I am contemplating another route where you can't bulb any of the techs in the main tree. Couldn't really do this until I have a sufficient amount of optional tech pages though.

I could possibly do both, but I will wait until I get the optional pages implemented before I start working on that.



Not sure I like idea of never being able to tech forward; but as it is so overpowered I don't know. With a SDK and random tech seems like a good thing. If ever a SDK. That one did sound best to me so far.



It would be interesting, but I doubt we will ever see it go quite that far in Civ 5.

If I see someone pump out a system that lets you do something akin to alpha centauri though, I will see if I can build a third or fourth future era around the concept. :)

No comment. I never played that game and like civ on earth.

Decimatus
Dec 09, 2010, 10:24 PM
I might get a chance. Not tonight though.

On slave thing, what about a caravan? Someone else made one. Maybe you can talk to them to see how they did it? I forget which mod I say it in.

I think I took a look at the posts and concept, but I don't think they got the AI to handle them any better than I did. Could be better now, but I think I will look into it at a later date.

It was crazy the 3 days of snow we had before thanksgiving. I ride van pool. We opted to go home at noon and work remotely. Thank you internet and laptop from work. We got home ok, but I heard anywhere from 6 hours to 12 hours to get home. One poor guy was on bus for those 12 hours. He got home at like 5 something in the morning after leaving the night before.

Yeah, we don't do good in snow. And for hills, there is something called "The Denny Roll-back" Denny is a main street (if you didn't find it) that is probably one of the steepest. It gets that from old manual transmissions. Comedians used to do bits on telling people behind them to go around because they didn't want to roll back.

Yeah I took Denny up from the port to get back on 5, and those hills were interesting to say the least. lol It didn't help that the genius behind me was riding my tail at every red light.

Not sure I like idea of never being able to tech forward; but as it is so overpowered I don't know. With a SDK and random tech seems like a good thing. If ever a SDK. That one did sound best to me so far.

Random could be good. Mainly I want to increase the number of great people in general, and balance the great scientists so that they pop side techs instead of main techs. You won't be moving forward, but the bonuses on the optional techs will be nice to have, especially since you may not have researched them otherwise.

The optional tech pages are my main project this month, and I have a good number of days off, so I should be able to work out something good. :)

ikillu64
Dec 10, 2010, 06:16 AM
Wow, I haven't posted here for a while.

On the issue of free techs, I think they should stay how they are right now. I think free techs provided by great scientists are supposed to be the great scientist researching it and inventing it. Like take the Wright brothers for example. They had the first successful flight by themselves, so the government got a free tech. (Sorry if I didn't explain it well, I'm not sure how to put it in words)

I really like V6 BTW, and I will download V7 after classes today.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 10, 2010, 09:41 AM
Wow, I haven't posted here for a while.

On the issue of free techs, I think they should stay how they are right now. I think free techs provided by great scientists are supposed to be the great scientist researching it and inventing it. Like take the Wright brothers for example. They had the first successful flight by themselves, so the government got a free tech. (Sorry if I didn't explain it well, I'm not sure how to put it in words)

I really like V6 BTW, and I will download V7 after classes today.

But here is the problem with what you say. Lets look at history as you did. Did the government tell the Wright brothers to research that? Sometimes yes the government told the scientist what to do. Other times no. The issue is that fact that the AI can't handle the concept of teching 3 deep for a juicy tech and thereby steamrolling the human. The human on the other hand can do that.

This is for balanced game, not realism.

Yanikin_Tinkard
Dec 10, 2010, 10:43 AM
I don't remember you talking about this. So I wanted to offer a suggestion:

I like the idea of diffrent road types. In Rise of Mankind for Civ IV they had something like: cart paths, roads, paved roads, railroads, highways?, mag lev lanes. Anway some of the later ones I'm sure I got wrong. It has been a while. I think that would make a good addition to your mod.

Animal Husbandry:
Foot paths:
no maintenance
+ 1 tile to movement

Wheel:
Road:
maintenance
+ 2 tiles to movement
+ trade connection

(Good tech between wheel and steam engine?):
Paved roads:
no maintenance
+ 2 tiles to movement

Steam engine:
railroads:
maintenance
+ 4 tiles to movement
+ trade connection

(tank or mech infantry? Think big paving machine)
Highways:
no maintenance
+ 4 tiles to movement

(Some future tech)
mag lev lanes
maintenance
+ 8 tiles to movement
+ trade connection

Following the above;
all trade connections cost you. But trade gets some back.
Your movement for unpaid is set to the last paid transportation method.

I picked arbitrary numbers, but think that is a good model. Unpaid is half of paid. Each era step doubles.

What do you think to add to your MOD?

chrome-rome
Dec 10, 2010, 10:47 AM
Good to see you active again Decimatus; don't worry, the community has been keeping this thread warm for you:lol:

I really like the concept of the scientist popping the optional techs instead of main branch techs, but I don't really understand how the optional trees are going to work. Will they be like social policies in that they grant benefits to certain aspects (increased culture, bonuses to improvements, etc) or more like standard techs that give extra buildings and units? I would suggest more along the lines of the first option, with the bonus techs making certain improvements/terrain more profitable. That way, there would be a clear tradeoff between technical superiority and terrain optimization. Or perhaps they can make certain units more effective in combat, sort of like an improved method of iron working that increase strenth of swordsmen, or even better manufacturing techniques that lower the cost of producing specified units. These are just a few routes that I think would be interesting to take, but I'm sure you already have your own ideas. Can't wait to see what you come out with:king: