How about a Deity SG for a newbie or 2? [Archive]

voodoocat

Dec 29, 2002, 10:38 PM

Ok, here we go... good lands are plentiful.

4000BC (1) - Our settlers notice off in a distance the coast of a water body. We sent our worker forth to check on the coast discovering the sea of Istanbul. This city will include game on forest, a cattle on grassland, and be built on a river
3950BC (2) - Better news yet... Istanbul settled; has 1 wheat on river/bg and another cattle on grass. I move our worker out to improve the land to the north on bonus grass. Science 90% for Pottery in 20.
3900BC (3) -
3850BC (4) - Worker starts on mining bonus grass
3800BC (5) -
3750BC (6) - Istanbul builds warrior for exploration
3700BC (7) - Warrior begins exploration south of istanbul
3650BC (8) - Worker heads towards wheat to improve it
3600BC (9) - Warrior gets 25g from village
3550BC (10) - Exploring
3500BC (11) - Warrior built in Istanbul, another warrior started
3450BC (12) - Borders expand and population increases. Luxury tax set to 10% and workers are now utilizing improved bonus grass and wheat. Warriors find incense to the north.
3400BC (13) - Worker completes irrigation of wheat. sent towards cattle to improve.
3350BC (14) - 3rd warrior for mp built. Production set to barracks as hold for granary. due in 3 turns after setting sci to 100%
3300BC (15) - Exploring
3250BC (16) - Exploring
3200BC (17) - Pottery discovered. IW being set at min science 6gpt. 10% luxury for new citizen.
3150BC (18) - Exploring and building mine on cattle
3100BC (19) - Exploring
3050BC (20) - village pops nothing. Worker on his way to clear the forest on the game square.

Here's the screen (no dot map):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/voodoocat-ottomans3050bc.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/voodoocat-ottoman3050bc.sav

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 12:53 AM

3050 BC (0) Surveyed empire. Citizen moved from game to Cattle tile for an increase by one in food. Worker should be concentrating on second cattle southeast of Istanbul instead of taking five turns to clear forest, which would also waste the shields gained from forestry. With second city to go south of Istanbul near the third cattle, the road toward that future city would be started as well. Decided to bite the bullet and waste the three turns required to move the worker down there.

3000 BC (1) Both warriors sent onto mountains to explore. Eastern warrior reveals another wheat. Worker moved toward cattle. Citizen moved from wheat to game for one turn: Istanbul still grows in one turn but gains two extra shields gaining one turn on the granary which is now finished in 5 turns instead of 6.

2950 BC (2) Istanbul grows to size 4, requiring an increase in luxury to 20% to stay happy. Warriors continue to mountain hop and worker continues on his way toward the cattle. Let's try not to waste worker turns like this if possible.

2900 BC (3) Warriors continue to explore and worker finally arrives on cattle.

2850 BC (4) Warriors continue to explore. Worker begins road.

2800 BC (5) Warriors continue to explore, worker continues to build road. Istanbul micromanaged to produce one extra gold but still grow and complete granary in one turn.

2750 BC (6) Istanbul grows to size 5 requiring an increase in luxuries again. Slider now set at 6.1.3. Worker finishes road and moves southeast. Western warrior finds the coast. Eastern warrior finds another wheat. Istanbul micromanaged to grow and finish a settler in 4 turns.

2710 BC (7) Worker begins road toward second city site.

2670 BC (8) Warriors continue to explore and still have not found another tribe. This has me a bit disappointed as we have a lot of money (99 gold with +5 per turn) and could have bought and traded for several techs by now. I fear we may be pretty far behind when we finally make contact. Worker keeps working on road.

2630 BC (9) Worker finishes road and warriors continue to explore. Finally make contact with someone, the Germans to the northwest of Istanbul. As I feared, they are far ahead of us, already having Alphabet, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, and Iron Working as well as 4 cities in addition to their capitol. The positive of being relatively isolated is that we should be able to build a lot of cities, especially with Istanbul being so food rich and having a granary. Trade 2 gpt and 85 gold to Germany for Ceremonial Burial.

2590 BC (10) Worker begins road and warriors continue to explore. Istanbul grows to size 6 and finishes settler, dropping back to size 4, and the slider is readjusted to 7.1.2. Istanbul set again to settler and should be able to produce settler after settler for some time with proper micromanagement. It has a surplus of 5 food, so it grows to size 5 in 2 turns, producing 14 shields at 7 spt. With the new citizen then placed on the second cattle, Istanbul will produce a surplus of 6 food for growth in 2 turns and 8 spt which will complete the settler in two turns and start the cycle again. Warriors continue to explore and at the edge of the fog of war, the eastern warrior spots a red border (Rome), and the western warrior spots a teal border (China). The completed settler has started to move toward a spot in the south which can be chosen by q33555.

The next 10 turns will be important in establishing contact with Rome and China and hopefully brokering contacts and/or tech, and continuing to pump out settlers. Securing and bringing online the incense north of Istanbul should be a priority. At the end of my turn, The Ottoman Empire has 22 Gold at +2 per turn with IW finished in 27 turns. Good luck to q33555.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/speaker-ottoman2590bc.sav

voodoocat

Dec 30, 2002, 01:15 AM

I think with all of the wheat we have, a worker farm would be ideal. We already have a great advantage being industrious and a good worker base would put us in a good position.

I'm thinking a core city that will start towards that goal from the moment it is settled. We can leave the strong culture to our border cities.

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 01:20 AM

I agree. Istanbul will be building settlers very quickly now, and since we are so far behind in tech, we'll have to catch up by expanding fast. A worker farm will help us speed the settlers to their sites. Let's get a proposed dot map soon if possible.

q33555

Dec 30, 2002, 06:56 AM

So xmas holidays are over and I should be at work. Instead I’m sitting at my computer coughing and spluttering and with a streaming nose :ack: . To try and cheer myself up I load up PtW and, with some trepidation, take up the reins on my first ever SG.

Pre-turn: review the scenery - looks like a very good starting position. I can see the northern Chinese border but cannot see the Roman border in the east (and I did look good and hard!). Check F11 to see who we’re up against - well the list is Germany, Rome, China, Zulu and Japan. Hmmmmm, at least 5 of the 6 opponents are militaristic, could get interesting later :ar15:.

(1) 2550BC: Decide to send the settler SW to settle the square between the cattle and the 3 bonus grasslands. Is also on an inland sea so no aqueduct needed. E Warrior moves north and can now see the Roman town of Cumae. Caesar is annoyed, has 5 cities has alphabet, WC and IW over us, but we have masonry. I hold off making any deals until we have contact with China to bring the prices down a bit. W Warrior moves towards Chinese border, but cannot make contact yet. Notice that China appear to be on a separate land mass to us.

(2) 2510BC. W Warrior can now see Nanking and shouts across the water to hail Mao. Mao is cautious, has 4 cities and is up alphabet, WC and IW. Make a visit to Ceasar he now offers us alphabet for masonry and 20g or IW for masonry, 2gpt and 10g. Given that we’re 15 turns into min research into IW, and I don’t want to completely cripple our economy just yet, I take the alphabet deal.

I MM Istanbul as the AI chooses to place the 5th worker on the forest instead of the cattle (we’ll all have to watch this every time Istanbul grows to size 5). Lux increased to 30%.

(IT) Germans commence the Pyramids - they are now building the Pyramids and the Colossus.

(3) 2470BC. Edrine founded. Warrior is ordered up first, it will then be set to churning out workers. Worker starts irrigating cattle square outside Edrine. MM Istanbul to get additional gold but still grow and produce settler next turn.

(4) 2430BC. Istanbul produces settler and another one is ordered. Lux back down to 20%. So where to send the settler? After much deliberation I decide to send him north to snag the incense in the hills. Two main reasons for this, I want to decrease our reliance on the lux slider and also as we’re on the southern edge of our continent we should start pushing north straight away and (hopefully) can fill in southwards at our leisure.

New techs discovered this turn, the other civs now have:
China: Wheel, WC, IW and Myst
Germany: WC, IW and Myst
Rome: WC and IW

I spy a chance of a 2for! Don’t stand a chance of getting the wheel at monopoly prices so I get mysticism from China for 5gpt and 9g and then pass this on to Rome for WC and 11g. This leaves us with 15g and -1 gpt but we will have our 3rd city shortly so should be ok.

(5) 2390BC. Worker completes irrigation and starts a road.

(6) 2350BC. Istanbul grows to 5 and have to MM to work the cattle again. Lux to 30%. We’re still at -1gt.

(7) 2310BC. Not a lot. Rome now has the wheel. Germany still lacks it. No chance of brokering it at the moment though.

(8) 2270BC. Settler produced by Istanbul, another ordered. Edrine produces warrior, worker ordered. Warrior put on MP duty as Edrine will grow next turn and even at 20% lux it doesn’t put any gold into luxuries. Found Bursa on hill by the incense. Need to get a worker up there ASAP otherwise it will grow too slowly. Warrior ordered up to do a bit more exploring to the west.

(9) 2230BC. Not a lot.

(IT) Roman warrior/settler pair head towards the wines near Cumae.

(10) 2190BC. Not a lot.

When I've worked out how to upload stuff I'll post the file and a picture and give some thought on what to do next.

q33555

Dec 30, 2002, 07:25 AM

Well, that's not too difficult! Here's the save game:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/q33555-ottoman2190bc.sav

And here's a simple dotmap:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/q33555_-_Ottoman_Deity_SG_-_dotmap11.JPG

I've only put three dots on it so far. The settler is currently heading for the black dot - although this can be vetoed if Skyfish wants.

I'm not sure about the orange dot, this will snag the ivory on a cultural expansion and has no overlap, but is not on a river and, unimproved, is not a great spot.

The green dot allows the city to be on a river and eventually get both wheats in its radius.

However, I think we really need to get some exploration doen to the west of Istanbul (the warrior due in Bursa was for this purpose). Until we know more about what is out there the dot map isn't too helpful.

And so ends my first ever SG turn. I hope none of you think any of my moves were too :smoke: - but if you do please tell me, I won't get offended ;) .

Good luck to Skyfish :)

anarres

Dec 30, 2002, 08:11 AM

Well done guys - this looks good. :)

I hope you don't mind constructive input, but I would reconsider putting a city on the black dot indicated in the map above. Maybe one below it to get the fish and the harbour.

You could then have another city 2 squares to the right of the black dot. This secong city would also get a fish (and some gold). If you prefer it to be less cramped (I like it compact early), you can always settle the first city 1 square south and 1 south-west of the black dot, still getting the fish.

If you'd prefer not to get this input just say and I'll stop it.

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 11:46 AM

Well done q33555 :goodjob: You have gotten exactly where I hoped you would get. Edrine should be able to crank out workers and I'm hoping that with some irrigation, Bursa can then build warriors for nationwide MP and we'll be in business. Nice work on brokering the trades as well. To Skyfish, I would tend to agree with Anarres and recommend ignoring the black dot for now. IMO, the first settler go to the red dot and the second settler find a nice spot to the west of Istanbul, probably by following the road that's already there. In any event, that is up to Skyfish.

voodoocat

Dec 30, 2002, 11:53 AM

Red dot is good... The green dot is a bit far away IMHO. Move it one to the west and there is no wastage

Skyfish

Dec 30, 2002, 12:00 PM

OK guys : got it !

Thanks for sliding me in Voodoocat, will do my best not to disappoint you !

Just bought PTW 2 minutes ago and upgraded to 1.14 just now.

Should be able to crank in some turns tonight, will keep you updated.

:D

q33555

Dec 30, 2002, 12:06 PM

Must be lunch time in the States! :lol:

@Speaker: Thanks for the comments. I've obviously played Civ3 for ages now and do well in solo games, but I was surprised at how tense I felt when playing those 10 turns - knowing you've got a lot of people watching and relying on you to do well adds another level of pressure!

@Annares: I've no problems with you chipping in with comments. Given that none of us have beaten deity before we probably need all the input we can get :) .

I expected a few disagreements on the dotmap ;) , I put it together quite quickly and as I said earlier I think we need more info about the west before we can make too many decisions.

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 12:13 PM

I know what you mean q33555. Every time Istanbul grew, I was petrified that it would go into disorder. Don't want to waste any turns here for fear of Sulla or Sirian lurking, ready to point out "weedy" moves.

voodoocat

Dec 30, 2002, 12:18 PM

I wake up and it's lunch time... I go to work at 2pm.

The west would be good lands... and closer to our core.

I definately look forward to hearing some comments. Would get better because of them.

I know it's early to think about FP but with a large core and a 2nd core to one side, we should have a strong set of cities to control.

LKendter

Dec 30, 2002, 12:30 PM

Every time Istanbul grew, I was petrified that it would go into disorder. Don't want to waste any turns here for fear of Sulla or Sirian lurking, ready to point out "weedy" moves.

Well Sirian or Sulla are by no means the only deity players here, or people who would comment.

I will note a positive comment with the worry about rioting. One thing I have learned about surviving higher levels - one city in riot mode early in the game can really hurt. That might be the difference in snagging one more city, or just losing the race to a critical site (luxuries, resources, choke point, etc).
Deity survival lesson #1: NEVER let core cities riot.

As for comments:
Bursa should have been one left to take advantage of the river - the cost of an aqueduct is added to the city growth, and lower commerce for not taking advantage of the river.
LK36 is proving that commerce is king - Germany is #2 in tech at the moment.

Both yellow are orange dot are one from a river? River cities are very valuable for generating commerce - this is survival for the late game.

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 12:34 PM

Didn't mean to offend LKendter. They just seem to be the most outspoken. I agree with you on the river. I might have put Bursa one tile southwest which would have still had incense in its borders, although it would have had a slight overlap with Istanbul. The red dot city should probably become two cities, one along the river one tile to the northwest, and one closer to the ivory.

voodoocat

Dec 30, 2002, 12:35 PM

Ok... so we move nw one but I think before that we want a city to claim ivory. blue is the lowest priority.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/dotmap2190bc.jpg

LKendter

Dec 30, 2002, 01:02 PM

a slight overlap with Istanbul

Building a city to create perfect size 21 cities is not critical, as much of the game is before hospitals. More critical is not to have unused squares near the capital or the fp.

EDIT:
I just saw the new dot map after posting. :thumbsup:
Hint: I find control-G (show gridline) helps a lot in planning cities. I will still blow an occasional city, but overall my city placement improved a lot from the simple skill.

FYI:
You really don't want Sirian to comment here. He is one of the few players that I know who blows me out of the water in skill level. I suspect he would find several holes here ;)

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 01:05 PM

Yeah, that does make sense. Thanks LKendter. Keep the advice coming.

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 01:12 PM

Well, assuming that my ego could take his harsh criticism, I would like to improve, so comments from him or anyone else are very welcome.

anarres

Dec 30, 2002, 01:23 PM

Personally, I have my first 6 to 10 cities closer than optimal. It is not great in the long run, but early on you can get a really good war machine going. This give an immediate advantage in the game as opposed to a grater production power later on.

Skyfish

Dec 30, 2002, 01:33 PM

Well !
Now I am actually glad that my first tries at opening PTW were a total failure...Wow how scary ! :( :cry:
It took me 2 or 3 tries to install the game properly (I am saying this now but I haven't actually opened the save game yet :eek:)
Freaky stuff.

There are many more posts than when I just looked a few minutes ago : I will follow the latest dot map and try to explore West as well.

Note to Sirian and Sulla fans : I have completed a few RBCivs Epics with success so believe me I can feel their :whipped: behind my every :smoke: move
:D :D :D :D

Thanks for all the tips ! Keep them coming !

Skyfish

Dec 30, 2002, 01:46 PM

:( :( :eek: :mad: :( :eek: :mad: :(

AAARGH This is really worse than I thought !

Check this out from Civ 3 site :

PATCH - CIVILIZATION III PTW v1.14f (12-02-2002)
For the US version only and is completely incompatible with any European version.
The v1.14F patch for Play the World address issues related to some of the online multiplayer features in PTW, including fixes to the matchmaking process via GameSpy Arcade, improvements to overall game speed, fixes for lag issues and “player-drop” crashes, and the addition of Direct IP support. There is also an autopatching ability to alert online players of future patch updates. Check out the readme file for full details on all fixes. Filesize: 9.33 MB

So I can not upgrade to 1.14f !
I am now searching for a compatible patch, I bought my game in Holland but it is in English ...if anyone can help...

Anyway I will inform you TODAY if I can play or not, I will not let this slow down the game !~

More news soon.

q33555

Dec 30, 2002, 01:49 PM

All the European patches released to date are here

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3patches.shtml

None of them are specifically dutch but hopefully the EU English one may work.

Good luck! :D

Skyfish

Dec 30, 2002, 02:04 PM

Working now : sorry for the flipping !

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 02:06 PM

@Skyfish: not sure which version you have, but take a look here: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3patches.shtml They have patches for the German, French, Italian, and EU English (which I hope is what you have).

voodoocat

Dec 30, 2002, 02:57 PM

This game has sure taken off. We are on pace to go through an entire rotation in less than 24 hrs. If skyfish finishes today, I'll take my turns tonight after work.

Skyfish

Dec 30, 2002, 03:30 PM

Ok game is going fine, founded 2 more cities in the red spots, nothing noticeable happened, will post my full report plus game tomorrow European time.

Skyfish

Dec 30, 2002, 03:39 PM

Hey what the heck I'll just post an unedited report so you guys can play tonight US time. Sorry for the mistakes.

2190bc : checking around , nothing to change.
2150bc : moving warriors north towards SW and other one towards NE.
2110bc : settler produced in Istanbul,keeping it on settler. Other Settler moving towards Ivory spot. New Settler moving towards Red spot on river, will try to still pop a settler out of that hut.
Worker produced in Edrine, keeping prod to Worker. Moving worker towards hill to connect Istanbul and Edrine, intend to then build a road towards Bursa to connect Incense.
2070bc : IT Rome building Pyramids. None of the Civs willing to trade any techs.
Warrior produced in Bursa, will use Bursa as our "Military producing" city. Switching to Spearman.
2030bc : North Warrior spotting 6 or 7 Roman warriors (and archers!) coming back from German border : what could they be up to I wonder ?
1990bc : Iznik founded on Ivory spot. Prod set to Warrior.Prod in Istanbul changed temporarily to Temple just to try to pop a settler when the River spot city is founded.
1950bc : Uskudar founded on River spot. Village popped a Warrior (better than nothing...). Prod in Uskudar on Spearman and Warrior from hut moved in Uskudar.
Road between Edrine and Istanbul completed. 2 Workers start road to Bursa.Prod changed back to Settler in Istanbul (only 2 shields wasted).
1910bc : New settler from Istanbul directed towards Blue spot as we want to get these wheats and also prevent some Roman expansion (we never know).
Worker building road to Iznik.
1870bc : Only deal possible : the Wheel from China (who is now Cautious for whatever reason) for all our treasury (25g) + all our gpts (5). I pass on it as I have been MM the lux
slider to get better gpt but it will have to go back to +30% (now 20%) so we may run out of gpts.
1830bc : nothing special.
1790bc : road to Bursa almost complete. Edrine produced another worker sent to build road towards Iznik and Uskudar. Still no way to get any techs from any civs.

Pretty uneventful, we need to decide what we are going to produce next in all those cities. Should we build culture imporvements or strengthen our military. Rome is looking really mighty. The fast-expanding tactics is good and I would stick to it we could build one more city in our core South of Edrine.

Sorry no time for screenshot, maybe Voodoocat you could paste one of our empire at 1790bc ?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish-Ottomans,_1790_BC.SAV

GOOD LUCK !
Hope I didn't weed too much !:crazyeye:

voodoocat

Dec 30, 2002, 04:08 PM

Possibly Edrine can build a granary to pump out quick workers... Uskudar could be a good military city because it will grow beyond 6 w/o an aqueduct. Maybe we can forest there to get a quick barracks and start getting some defensive units in our border towns.

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 06:43 PM

I am working on a proposed dotmap and will post it soon.

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 06:51 PM

Here is a proposed dotmap. Blue is the highest priority, red is next, then purple (for potential saltpeter). Black is a potential fishing village for later on. We should try to fill out our core west of Istanbul as quickly as possible and push back the fog. We might want to think about eventually moving our capital to Bursa because it is slightly more centrally located than Istanbul. The northern red dots are good locations, but are far away from the capital and will be quite corrupt, but are important to cut Roman expansion. The western blue dots were tougher to place because of the fog and will probably have to be slightly amended.

LKendter

Dec 30, 2002, 07:15 PM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-227.jpg

The above city is cultural suicide
The red borders will be Rome's eventual borders.
The black borders will be you cities eventual borders.
The blue squares are OVERLAP.

At deity you can expect to be in awe of all the other cultures - a high chance already for a flip. The general feeling is to avoid ANY overlapping cities unless you are ready to spend a lot of time keeping your culture ahead and control the disputed area.

Just a friendly thought.

Speaker

Dec 30, 2002, 07:53 PM

You're probably right LKendter, although the Romans usually have the least amount of culture because they are Commercial and Militaristic, so it all depends on how quickly we can get a city up there with some culture. I thought it would be a good idea to grab some desert, but if their borders expand soon, then it is a moot point in any event. But if you think it would be stupid to settle there, then I'll heed your knowledgable advice. What do you think of the rest of the map?

anarres

Dec 30, 2002, 08:04 PM

I agree with LK. Also Rome should be yours by the time you need saltpeter, at which point the land is yours anyway.

It would be nice if you could post a power graph. :)

voodoocat

Dec 30, 2002, 08:20 PM

Yeah, I love pushing Rome around early on. Their border cities will be ours long before saltpeter arrives. Even if we hastely grab a few of their far towns and sue for peace.

voodoocat

Dec 31, 2002, 03:59 AM

1790BC(00) - Change production in Edrine to granary for worker farm. Now it's due in 30. Should get granary in 16.
1750BC(01) - Istanbul is a settlin machine. Send new settler west to get another core city online. Explore some.
1725BC(02) - What great luck! We popped The Wheel with our settler grabbing more land. Diplo survey shows Rome with writing and IW. China and Germany also have horseback riding.
1700BC(03) - Germany starts Oracle, China starts pyramids. Izmit founded on blue dot NW of Istanbul. Spear built in Bursa, working on another. Sent spear to the city that will be there next turn.
1675BC(04) - Still don't see any horses. Warrior is scouting to the west though. Aydin is settled. Build order is warrior. Maybe the next ruler will want something else.
1650BC(05) - Incense is online. Slider set to 10% luxury which means +16gpt. Iznik builds a warrior, set to temple as library prebuild. Another Settler, sending him west again.
1625BC(06) - Bursa gets irrigated plains. Trade 6gpt and 65 for writing before IW is up so we can beeline Republic. We'll buy into Lit.
1600BC(07) - IW discovered but no fricken iron close by. Gonna need to snag it quickly though. All AI's have Map Making. We trade WM to Germany for TM and 26 g, WM to Rome for TM (they are broke), and WM to China for 31 g and TM. Izmit builds warrior. Temple as placeholder. We'll buy into lit soon hopefully.
1575BC(08) - Make more map deals for +4gp and all the TM's.
1550BC(09) - Ivory online. Lux set to 0%. +13gpt. Sell WM's for 2gp. Rome is still broke. Sending Settler to claim iron.
1525BC(10) - I'm smoking :smoke: send warrior from Iznik to look out east. lugdunum (roman) is founded nw of Bursa next to other incense

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/1525bcpowergraph.gif

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/ottomans-screenshot1525bc.jpg

voodoocat02-ottomans-deity1525bc.sav (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/voodoocat02-ottomans-deity1525bc.sav)

ERIKK

Dec 31, 2002, 04:14 AM

Nice game going guys! From now on I will be watching this one!

Speaker

Dec 31, 2002, 04:19 AM

Consider this my "got it."

q33555

Dec 31, 2002, 05:38 AM

Good going guys :goodjob:

Just a couple of questions comments from me for what its worth ;)

(1) I agree that we're going to have to get in a war with Rome at some point, however, I'm slightly concerned about the current lack of horses and iron :eek: . Its going to be a long time until we get the iron online (if we manage to settle there first). What's our plan going to be? A big warrior upgrade rush? Although at 40g per upgrade that may be a bit ambitious. If we don't get any iron or horses we're slightly screwed on the military front :( .

(2) A couple of non-vet spearmen have been built. I'm not sure if this was worth it. If they were for MP duty then a warrior is half the price and just as effective, however if they're for defence I normally like to produce a barracks first for vet troops. However, we shouldn't need too much defence to start with as there are no barbs in this game.

(3) On the research, in the last couple of games I've played on PtW I've found that literature is normally one of the last techs the AIs go for, whereas they make a beeline for Republic quite early on. I found this out to my cost in a solo deity game where I had turned research off and it must have been about 50 turns until one of the AIs got lit - I missed out on a great brokering opportunity and ended up falling way behind in tech and losing :rolleyes: .

(4) There are a couple of of temples as pre-builds for libraries. I never normally build libraries until much later on as I generally have research turned off (or on a min 40 turn research) at these levels. However, for that reason I never normally play scientific civs at this level! I understand that for us they're the cheapest cultural building available - we perhaps need to be careful we don't over accumulate shields in the pre-builds.

Anyway, that's just my tuppence worth (about 3c for you in the US and Europe :) )

Hope you all have a good New Year's Eve! I'm heading off to a Cowboys & Indians party which should be interesting!! :arrow: [party] :band: :beer:

Skyfish

Dec 31, 2002, 07:37 AM

I agree with my man from the Dons.

We have to make a serious strategy choice between : Temple/Library builds or Barracks/military builds.

I have to download the save to check if/where we can get Iron as this will be a decison maker.

Happy New Year to all and welcome to (spectator) Erikk !

voodoocat

Dec 31, 2002, 01:20 PM

As far as military goes, I think you're right... Barracks in one city right now would be good. As far as iron and horses go I think horses are more important to get so we can build Sapahi. Usually on deity I either get a good starting location and no resources or resources and limited starting position. It would suck to trade long on horses. You figure in reality a civ could learn how to breed horses after trading for 500 yrs. :P

We'll get something figured out... Horses are worth fight for early on.

Speaker

Dec 31, 2002, 03:01 PM

I'm thinking I may wait to play my turn until tomorrow, so hopefully we can choose a long-term strategy by then. The next 10 or 20 turns will be pretty important and I don't want to do anything too hastily. Happy New Years to all...

voodoocat

Dec 31, 2002, 03:31 PM

Well we are either going to get the horses or not. I think we are still a few turns from anything but expansion. This is Deity, so I fully expect the AI to get Lit before we could get it. If we get mapmaking we should go look for the other civs. I'm kinda interested to see if there are any horses around in the fog.

Speaker

Jan 01, 2003, 11:51 AM

Will play and post tonight.

voodoocat

Jan 01, 2003, 01:21 PM

Sounds good. I hope everyone had a good/safe New Year celebration.

Skyfish

Jan 01, 2003, 03:17 PM

OK checked the map and there is indeed Iron not too far.
We should settle their ASAP : this should be possible in 7 or 8 turns with the available settler going West (near Izmit).

The warrior present in that peninsula should move north to block the way to the Chinese who might send some settler towards this iron source. He can then stay as MP of the village : we can pull this one out !
This Iron city will be corrupted but will still give us access to this great resource.

The West lands are really good and fruitful so we should establish all of our future cities between Izmit and the Iron city grabbing those cows and possibly some luxuries...

Forget the East for now (except for that one settler going there).

My opinion is that once we have secured the Iron we should go on full military build up to protect ourselves against the Romans or possibly attack them. The Chinese can be controlled by blocking the bottleneck that attaches them to our continent.
We must now establish cities to the limit of other civs (north west, east) in order to stop their expansion and then build within our borders in close build.

For the moment, we should give in to AI demands, please be careful as in Deity bc times there is just no choice ! Just give in... will note the names and get then later, believe me.

Also we are making quite a lot of money right now : we should use the gpts to trade techs always keeping a near 0/+2 gpt. This is the only way to keep up in techs, one of the most difficult thing to do in Deity. Also this prevents AIs from "demanding"all the gold we amassed...

The game looks good for now, but we're far from out of the hole !
Congrats to all.

voodoocat

Jan 01, 2003, 03:27 PM

Climbing out of a hole is the point of deity. I sure hope we find horses... they are more important to us than iron is. Iron is definately very important, but our Sapahi is going to make us.

Skyfish

Jan 01, 2003, 04:16 PM

You're totally right. Horse is priority one...but still Iron is so important and we can get it right now, so let's just do it.
Here is a (bad) dot map, as to how I see our "Go West" expansion.
The red dot is priority number one.
The Pink's #2.
The Orange's #3
and then the Yellows...
I chose the hillsite for Pink as this will be sort of an outpost and might have to defend vs Chinese or Germans.
The Green Question mark should also be settled ASAP if some good land because it could close the bottleneck with China and give us good control.

The strategy is a gamble as Horses could be East but it needs to be taken : this land is just too good to ignore. Land East could be under Roman culture influence and seems more desertic.

Waddya think ?

EDIT : Took away the attachment as Speaker's screenie has the dots.

Speaker

Jan 01, 2003, 10:59 PM

1525BC (0) Survey the empire. I have read everyone's input and have decided to try to expand west. Germans offer WM for our WM and 110 gold. Yeah right Otto!

1500BC (1) Settler heads toward Red Dot. Bursa finishes spear (should have been a warrior probably, but I didn't want to change it because it would have wasted 7 shields) and begins a warrior for MP. Worker finishes mine on Istanbul cow, Settler in 4 turns continues to be Istanbul's plan. Istanbul requires an additional MP to avoid moving the luxury slider, so Spear from Bursa moved to Istanbul. Road started from Uskudar to Aydin. Eastern warrior continues exploration. Trade WM to Rome for TM (they had no gp), to China for 2 gold, and to Germany for 1 gold. All three Civs have Mapmaking and Horseback Riding over us, so no opportunies to broker yet.

1475BC (2) Workers finish projects and begin new ones. Micromanage Istanbul to lend wheat tile to Izmit for one turn, and still grow and finish the Settler next turn. Uskudar changed from Spearman to Warrior wasting 2 shields :( but saving 3 turns :). More lands explored in the east and they are fertile. Exploring warrior in the north finds that Germany has 2 horses and 2 iron. Germany and Rome give TM (for lack of gp) for our WM and China offers nothing (jerks). China and Germany have discovered Code of Laws and we purchase it from China (better price) for 5gpt and 143 gp. We then trade Code of Laws to Rome along with 6gpt and 2gp for Map Making and will try to find some other Civs. Begin work on Philosophy on the grounds that it will be the one of the last techs researched by the AI. Germans complete Colossus in Leipzig.

1450BC (3) Uskudar completes warrior and begins another. Istanbul completes settler and begins another and wheat is given back to Istanbul from Izmit. Istanbul will need to be micromanaged every settler because the governor does not place the citizens correctly. Settler heads toward Orange Dot, accompanied by warrior from Istanbul, who will be replaced by Warrior from Bursa. Warrior from Uskudar heads East to help explore the Eastern lands. Caesar give 1 gold for our WM and Otto and Mao decline to trade.

1425BC (4) German galley spotted north of Germany. Caesar and Mao give 1 gold for our WM and Otto declines. Caesar and Mao have Mathematics but Germany does not. We do not have enough money to trade for it. Exploring warrior in the west finds two silks and that China is connected to our continent. Since the Eastern lands look so good, worker moves from Iznik to begin road east.

1400BC (5) Bursa finishes warrior and begins another. Two Chinese warriors say hi to our Western warrior. Antalya switched go Galley, as Bursa warrior will provide MP. WM sales net 3 gold and Otto still does not have Mathematics. Caesar demands 14 gold as tribute and I tell him where to stick it. Well, I would have liked to, but since our cities are all defended by warriors, I aquiesce and secretly plan to assassinate Caesar myself when Rome is sacked. Be afraid Caesar. Be very afraid. Berlin builds Pyramids and Zimbabwe builds Oracle creating a whole lot of wasted shields as the cascade is broken.

1375BC (6) Not a whole lot happens. Trade WM to Otto and Mao for 1 gold each and to Rome for TM (just to see if any new cities had been founded in the Eastern fog).

1350BC (7) Edrine completes Granary and starts work on Worker. We will need several of these to build roads to the Eastern cities. Istanbul builds Settler and stars another. Road finished to Antalya. Bonus grassland targeted for improvement. WM sales net another 3 gold. It goes without saying, but to be safe, I'll say it anyways. We should be doing this every turn. Munich begins Great Lighthouse. Roman settler/spear pair seen heading toward wheat in the northeast.

1325BC (8) Settler heads toward pink dot, accompanied by warrior. Northern warrior is stranded in Germany with no hope of getting out. He should probably be kept (for sake of military numbers) until the borders expand and then he should probably be disbanded. I don't think he could make it across Germany without pissing off Otto. Antalya will finish Galley in 9 turns and could be faster if a citizen was moved from a bonus grassland to a forest tile, although I will leave that up to q33555. Izmit lent wheat tile from Istanbul again. Contact established somehow with Japan (AI must have traded it). Trade Japan our WM and 23 gold for Horseback Riding and their TM and they are revealed west of China. Well, Germany, Rome, and China all have Philosophy, so I guess I chose the wrong tech to research. Damn New Years weed...Otto gives 1 gold for our WM.

1300BC (9) Yay! Exploring warrior in the East discovers a horse tile closer to us than to Rome. Next settler should head that direction following the road already started by a worker. We are now in business. Settlers continue toward Red and Pink and Orange Dots, with Red Dot to be created in two turns. Japan gives TM and 1 gold for our WM, Germany gives 1 gold, and China and Rome give nothing. Mao demands TM and 10 gold, which I give up and again plan to Kill Mao myself. Attacking barbarian (where did he come from?) kills our eastern warrior, who gave his life to finding those mystic creatures known as horses.

1275BC (10) Bursa finishes warrior and begins another. Japan gives 1 gold for our WM and Germany gives his TM.

1250BC (11) I apologize for the extra turn, but there were several things I had started that I wanted to finish, so q33555 would have nothing hanging over his head. Konya founded next to the iron and will include the silks when it expands. Production started on a temple but can be changed by q33555 if so desired. Trade WM to Japan, Rome, and Germany for 1 gold each.

Overview
The Iron has been claimed and Horses are soon to follow. Pink and Orange Dots will soon be ours and Yellow soon. Germany, Rome, and China have Philosophy, Literature, and Mathematics ahead of us and Japan has Philosophy. A possible brokerage is in store for q33555. The worker standing on the cattle near Istanbul should go toward Uskudar and Iznik to improve the terrain, while the worker next to Izmit should build a road to Konya and the Iron. Antalya will finish its galley in 4 turns and I suspect the other Civs are below Japan, so hopefully the Galley can head east and make contact. Uh oh, it seems that the Roman settler/spear pair were not heading toward the wheat as I earlier mentioned, but seem to be heading toward the (gasp!) horses. I don't know that there is anything that we can do to stop them because we don't have the military to block them. Losing the exploring warrior to barbs may have been a weedy move on my part, however if I had attacked them, he probably would have died and then we wouldn't even know the horses were there. Good luck to q33555.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/speaker02-ottoman1250bc.sav

Speaker

Jan 01, 2003, 11:19 PM

Here's a screenie:

Speaker

Jan 02, 2003, 12:36 AM

It occurs to me that our game needs a name, since there is no easy acronym for "How about a Deity SG for a newbie or 2?" HADSGFN2 seems a bit awkward to me. Any ideas?

Speaker

Jan 02, 2003, 12:46 AM

Oops, double post due to forum difficulties.

Skyfish

Jan 02, 2003, 07:02 AM

OK Q33555 you up !
Great job Speaker for finding that Horse ! We should still race our Settler towards it as we are not sure where the Roman settler goes...
Looking again at my dotmap I would settle the Orange dot city on a hill again as we will need that defence, that's the hill just one square to the East of the Orange dot.

We should also grab that wheat/river tile East of Aydin just to secure our border with Rome. We still have a lot of land to grad before the end of the peaceful grabbing, full on Settlers guys.

As Speaker did, we should go on building Temples on fringe cities to avoid flips.

Speaker

Jan 02, 2003, 11:29 AM

Hey Sirian, if you are around, could you give me some criticism? Thanks.

Griselda

Jan 02, 2003, 12:10 PM

Naturally, I can't say whether Sirian has been following this thread, or if he has the time to offer criticism, but I did want to invite you to check out the Realms Beyond Civilization Epics tournament if you're interested. I'm a webmaster, and Sirian is the tournament organizer. Since everyone is playing the same game, it helps players to compare notes and to compare their games to others' games. Many of Epics players are either experienced Deity players, or looking to move into Deity-level play. In addition, we offer some variant scenarios, which can bring new challenges to Emperor and Monarch games.

I really don't like to "advertise", and avoid it in most cases, but I did want you to get some response. Part of the fun of the Epics is to discuss and compare notes after the games close, and this might provide some of the feedback that you're interested in.

http://realmsbeyond.net/civ

The next Epic will open this Monday.

-Griselda

q33555

Jan 02, 2003, 12:10 PM

Got it!

I'm at work at the moment. I will try and play and report back when I get home tonight.

Speaker

Jan 02, 2003, 12:22 PM

Thanks Griselda. I have been avidly following the RB crew of late and have improved greatly. Currently I am trying to read all of the epic reports so I can get it all figured out, so if I finish that in time for the next epic, then I will definitely join. If not, I'll join the next one.

voodoocat

Jan 02, 2003, 01:27 PM

I read the RBCiv quite often too and plan on joining the next Epic. Before I started reading the reports I could barely squeak out Monarch.

q33555

Jan 02, 2003, 02:01 PM

Okay - just starting to play now. For a new name how about Cannon Fodder series!?!

Skyfish - can you post your dot map again - Speaker's doesn't have the yellow dots on it.

Speaker

Jan 02, 2003, 02:26 PM

Cannon Fodder series, this game being known as CF1...I like it...what do the rest of you guys think?

Skyfish

Jan 02, 2003, 02:48 PM

Cannon fodder good by me but I like Voo2 as well (as in VooDOOcat), let's let the man decide.

Here is a dotmap : of course the ultimate priority is the Yellow dot by the Horses. Use the settler on the road to East to establish. Have him escorted as those barbs that killed our first Heor warrior must still be there.
As I already mentionned I would move the Orange dot city on the hill, just one square to the east.

If the Roman settler founds a city in somewhere in between those dots (or on horses), let's still build around it and make sure we build temples on those border cities. We'll either flip it...or use it as our first target ;)

Make sure we keep on track with techs q33555, look for deals every turn, don't let that treasury of us get big, no need for it.

Sirian

Jan 02, 2003, 03:36 PM

Criticism for Speaker? Not much I can say at this level without having opened the game. Min sci on Philosophy is the only thing that stands out. That is one of the cheapest techs in cost, so I would always pick something, anything else to research over 40 turns. You guys seem to be doing well for pre-1000BC. Good luck.

- Sirian

voodoocat

Jan 02, 2003, 04:12 PM

We wouldn't be Cannon Fodder forever :P But I like the name. CF1 it is. Should I change the title of this thread?

Speaker

Jan 02, 2003, 04:49 PM

Don't change the title because anyone who hasn't bookmarked it (lurkers or players alike) might have trouble finding it again. Just edit your second post where you gave the game rules.

q33555

Jan 02, 2003, 05:28 PM

Well, I only played 9 turns; its getting late here and I still needed to prepare this write up and it gets us back on an even keel with the dates. I nearly had a heart attack half way through thinking the game was over before it had begun (more of that later) but hopefully got through with only minor weed :smoke: .

Preturn: The people of the Ottoman Empire are annoyed. “Its that man with the bloody unpronounceable name again. What happened? Your parents have a harsh sense of humour?”. Q33555 smiled the weary smile of someone who had been asked this question many times. He explained patiently to his subjects. They walked away muttering to themselves “What is this internet log-in ID that he talks about, and why does he want it to be the same for all sites?”. As a parting shot Q33555 smiled benevolently and said, “If it makes it easier, just call me Q”.

After reviewing the situation, Q (for I myself definitely find it easier!) made a number of decisions. All scientists were shot and funding stopped immediately. “You‘re too stupid to beat the AIs to any techs, and we‘re better off with the cash,” shouted Q as the last scientist was rounded up. Q felt quite smug when he read that the great Deity Sirian had given some words of wisdom along the same lines :p .

Then Q called up a few of his fellow leaders. He agreed to buy Lit from Mao for 7gpt, 14g and our WM. He then sold Lit to Tokugawa for Philosophy and 2g.

The final bit of tinkering was to change a number of build orders. Konya changed from temple to worker. Izmit changed from temple to barracks and all other temple builds changed to libraries (cheap culture).

With that Q hit the legendary “space bar”.

IT: Rome spear/settler pair move SW - away from the horses :) .

1225BC (1): Not a lot. Workers work, warriors explore and settlers move towards their pre-ordained spots (one of them on a goto, naughty :nono: ;) )

IT: Roman settler builds Brundisium just to the East of our boundaries. Causes a slight blockage on the way towards the horses (our worker is building a road right next to the new town) but we can still get round it to the south (until its cultural border expands).

1200BC (2): Edrine produces worker, another one ordered. Bursa completes warrior, another one ordered. Warrior heads towards Izmit for MP duty. Worker heads towards Izmit to begin construction on the great NW road which will one day connect our NW frontier towns. Talking of which, Adana is founded on the pink dot. A worker is the first build order. Western warrior spots a Chinese mini- SOD :eek:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/q33555_-_Chinese_mini_SOD.JPG

q33555

Jan 02, 2003, 05:28 PM

IT: Rome asks our worker to leave - but we’re only doing you a favour :p .

1175BC (3): Antalya completes Galley and a warrior is ordered for MP duties. I move worker out of Rome’s border - the road to the horses will take longer now as its got to go through two forest tiles.

IT: Lots of Chinese troop movement. There are now 7 units in close proximity to our iron town, now I’m worried! Also two roman units outside Aydin and the barb warrior hanging out round by the horses appears out of the fog - we must kill him and avenge the death of the first Ottoman to spot the beasts we have named horses!

1150BC (4): Instanbul produces settler and another one ordered. Edrine produces worker, another one ordered. Realise a bit of weed :smoke: , 1st warrior from Bursa should have gone to Istanbul first to act as MP (and stop the need for 10% lux I’m currently running) and second to act as escort for new settler. It will take two turns for him to get to Istanbul, so instead of leaving the settler kicking his heels for two turns I send him unescorted to found a city on the yellow dot to the south of Istanbul. This should be a fairly productive site so its not too bad to get it on line early - but hopefully this won’t mean that we miss out on other good sites to the east. :(

IT: OK, heart attack time. The roman warrior and archer outside both move in to the hill and mountain directly outside Aydin. I smell a sneak attack!!! :eek: :aargh: Luckily, we had built a spearman in Aydin and it is founded on a hill, so we may be able to hold out - but we could not survive a concerted war from Rome at this stage in the game. Please don’t let the game head into a tailspin on my watch! :cry:

EDIT: In all the excitement, I also forgot to mention that the barb warrior attacked our warrior/settler pair heading for the horses - across a river and fortified we won without taking a scratch. Vengance is ours :) .

1125BC (5): Bursa produces warrior - barracks ordered. After some thought I decide to switch Aydin’s current build from library to spearman. This wastes 2 shields - but I would like some additional “deterrent”. A 6gpt deal with China ends this turn, we’re now up to +15gpt. No movement on the tech front though. We could buy into Maths, but Japan has no cash to buy it from us for so I hold off. In other news, Sinop is founded on the orange dot in the NW - a worker is ordered.

As I hold my breath, I press the space bar……..

[TO BE CONTINUED!]

Speaker

Jan 02, 2003, 05:56 PM

Sorry about the goto command. :o Thought I had stopped all of those. Combine that with the one extra turn I did and I'm a real jerk! At least I did find those horses and get the iron.

PS- Thanks for avenging my warrior.

q33555

Jan 02, 2003, 06:09 PM

Have you coped with the suspense?!?

IT: Chinese move their troops around, looks like a withdrawal. Germany drops a settler off from a galley just north of our NW frontier towns. And…. Rome DOESN’T attack - the troops just move of our mountains and hills and head back north :confused: :lol: .

1100BC (6): Edrine produces worker and another one ordered. Aydin produces the spearman it now doesn’t need. I guess I could have used scroll ahead to change it back to a library, but that seemed like it would be something of an exploit so I decided against it. Interested to know if the rest of you would have done the same?

Antalya produces warrior and a barracks ordered up - the last two or three turns have shown me that we need a proper military! Warrior who was kicking his heels up north on a German hill is now totally enclosed by German culture, rather than annoy Otto I disband him.

IT: Chinese continue to pull back their troops. Germans found Dortmund just to the North of our iron town. Will now be a bit of a culture battle for the silks there.

1075BC (7) Uskunder completes library (our first cultural building!) and a granary is ordered. :aargh: Major weed on my part :smoke: [pimp] :smoke: . I had fortified the warrior settler pair against the barb attack, and I have left them there for the last two turns! This was a major oversight on my behalf - sorry :cry: ! I wake them up and move them onwards towards the fabled horses.

The galley currently cruising along our southern shore discovers a new little island!

1050BC (8): Istanbul produces settler, yet another one ordered. Edrine produces a worker, a warrior is ordered as it is gradually shrinking by producing workers every time, so I decided it needs a bit of respite to allow it to grow a bit again. Plus the warrior can be used as MP in Istanbul. Izmit completes barracks and a vet spearman is ordered up.

Antalya is changed from a barracks to a galley. My plan would be to send the next settler in it over to settle the new southern island - but this will obviously be up to Skyfish to decide. New warrior/settler pair set of from Istanbul to the East. Again Skyfish can decide exactly where. Kafu is founded to the south of Istanbul and a warrior ordered.

While doing the usual diplo round I notice that a lot of gold has just gone to Rome. The AIs must be trading tech behind maths. I buy maths from Mao for WM, 110g and 2gpt. All civs now have construction. No one is prepared to make an offer yet, but I would want to wait for a 2fer anyway.

1025BC (9): Not a lot, but warrior/settler pair arrive at spot by the horses (two turns late :mad: ). Skyfish gets the privilege of founding the horse town.

And so ends the reign of Q33555. Some points to note:

* Settler/Warrior outside Iznit heading west to join One Horse Town.
* I would recommend sending the next settler on the new galley to the southern island
* NW frontier towns are all on worker builds which will complete shortly and allow us to quickly get our road network up and running.
* Worker outside Izmit is building the road up to the NW frontier towns
* We will regain 11gpt in 2 turns as a couple of our trades expire.

Well it was certainly an interesting few turns! We have one barracks and one more due to complete soon. I think we need to start thinking about a military build up sooner rather than later.

Here’s the save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF1_-_1025bc.sav

I'll post a couple of pictures next.

q33555

Jan 02, 2003, 06:13 PM

Here is our lands at 1125BC

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/q33555_-_1025BC.JPG

And then there was this as well :rotfl:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/q33555_-_Hail_baby.JPG

I know its been in one of the SOTDs but it made me laugh again!

Speaker

Jan 02, 2003, 06:50 PM

Nice work q33555. As long as we can fill in those western lands with some culture and build up our military now and we'll have plenty of land to work with. Good job to everyone so far. Let's keep it up. :goodjob:

Speaker

Jan 03, 2003, 02:39 AM

Hey guys. I'll be gone this weekend and should be back on Monday. If my turn comes up before then, just skip me and I'll play the next round.

Skyfish

Jan 03, 2003, 03:53 AM

Nice turns Q ! Very good tech trading.
Don't know about Libraries though, kind a like temples as they ahve the added MP function and Libraries are useless since we're trading techs.
A bit disappointed by the Horse town coming late, these are the kind of weeds Deity level usually punishes but they're unavoidable (and I will have worse weeds than that one, for sure...).

PLUS we got a nice word from Sirian ! COOL ! Let's keep it up bros !

got it then...

Skyfish

Jan 03, 2003, 08:42 AM

Errata on my previous post : forgotten we were Scientific so indeed Libraries are better than Temples sorry Q !

My goal : get as many settlers as possible to settle south Island but also the wheat west of Aydin.
And one more city in our West region to connect with the NW cities.

Preturn : Settler due in 4 turns in Istanbul, I change tiles around with Izmit in order to get settler in 3 turns and still grow in 1 turn.

1000bc : Ankara founded near Horses, very fitting as Ankara is now Turkey's capital, this city will be crucial to us. Antalya changed from Galley to Granary (temporarily).
Will use our existing galley to bring a settler to our little island and then let it go further on exploration, maybe picking up our lone warrior in the West.
Lux slider back to 10% as Istanbul will grow next turn. Worker produced in Iron city, switch to Library in order to get the Silks online ASAP.

975bc : Edrine produces Warrior, changed back to Worker. Sending Warrior to NW. Deal ends we now make 24gpt, looking for a deal. As usual China give us the best deal WM + 17gpt + 44g (all our treasury) for Construction.
We are now on TECH PARITY for the 1st time, great stuff. Do a round of trading on WM and get TM of Germany and China and 4 gold from Japan.

950bc : Worker produced in Adana, switch to Library against Culture push from Germany. Settler produced in Istanbul, sent towards "west of Aydin " (Aydin is just Turkish name for Eden).
Settler lands on South Island and galley sent west. Lux back to 0%. All looks good for now.

925bc : Edrine produces Worker sent NW, switch to Warrior as we could alternate so that Edrine does not go too small. We will use these Warriors at one point for the beloved Swordsmen...
Island is a real dilemma as the one good settling tile is a Bonus grassland ! Hate to settle on those ! I choose the Hill : Salonika is founded.

900bc : Alarming stacks of Roman Warrior in NW !!!! Our first Library is built in Iznid, great for pressure on Brundisium. Changed to Settler as will grow to size 5 and dont' want to got to high Lux.

875bc : Seems the Romans are going after the Germans, oh that would be so good ! Edrine again pumping out a Warrior, sent to border city Bursa, switch to worker. Sinop produces worker, switch to Barracks
as we already have Libraries going there and we will need some military up there. Iznik needs an entertainer but it only costs us some food, Iznik does not grow which is fine by us since we need a Settler from there.
ASAP (due in 9 turns). AIs just got Republic but of course don't want to trade it. Might have to wait 'til Construction deal is off.

850bc : Romans have a settler right on the spot I was going after AARGH ! Thanks to my 2 workers that built a road there I can settle before them BUT on the damned wheat I wanted. AAARH. Will need some time to think over that one, I can still use this settler
for some other spot in the East near Ankara. New settler in Istanbul goes to found last city in West. Izmit is now size 4 and we don't need it to grow to size 5 as we will have trouble with riots, the choice is either Granary or Library, I prefer Library to get some strong border
and Granary is being built in Antalya. Also the Library in Izmit can be changed to mil unit if we suddenly get attacked.
Finally I decide to settle on the wheat Mugla is founded, I just don't want to lose this spot on river and good terrains which allows to surround Brundisium. We have to watch out for Hispalis as it has strong culture, we should set Mugla
on Library ASAP, the MP can come from one of our Core city.

825bc : Edrine finishes Worker I set on Barracks as it will be a good Military factory soon. Kafa finishes Warrior, change to Granny as the city will have problems growing fast enough with no water around.
Irrigated plain in Mugla, workers should now Clear Forest in order to get fast Library. Still no tech available.

800bc : Nothing special. Settler is sent to hill to settle our last NW city, loads of German settlers around so it's grad ASAP time. Hope I can get my preferred site.
The Zulus finally appear ! The Japanese have contact with them but don't want to give it , Damn ! Hope they are more backwards than we are that would help a lot tech trading. Where the heck can they be... Wait a second Japan's got the GLH that is why they could get to them...They must be behind.
Hey but I can get their WM for all our treasury (59g) and 7 gpt, we now make 9gpt at 10% lux : seems pricey since the chance to contact them seems remote without GLH. Not worth it.

775bc : Antalya produces Granary, switch to Galley (gotta find those Zulus), after that we should pump workers out for development of NW territories.
well the Japs have sold the Zulus' all other contacts, I am really glad I did not buy their WM now. They have Polytheism that we can exchange for Construction ! They are totally bankrupt as the japs probably broke them to buy contacts with us...
I can also get their WM (for ours) so we will know where they are ! Deal !
Woosh ! Huge territory south of Japan, not backwards at all of course (me dreaming...).
Antalya switched back to Spearman as growth is still only in 9 turns.

750bc : Our last settler (for the time being) out of Istanbul is pumped out. MM to get more food in there. Sent towards the East. Still 1 or 2 good spots over there. I weeded Konya as I mined the Iron but because of Corruption it is useless, we still only get ONE shield there.
I also started mining a grassland instead of Irrigating for growth. Apologies.
Romans found Jerusalem (of all names..) exactly where I wanted our next city, this is our territory Caesar, get outta here ! Well we'll resolve that matter in a few thousand years (ahahah).

Next actions :

- In Konya, Worker sent to clear Forest in order to finish Library to get Silks online asap. Those 2 workers SW of Sinop should irrigate this tile to then irrigate the Cows, we need growth over there right now, not production. Don't make the same weeds I made.
- Settler on hill between Izmit and Sinop should found next city right there on beginning of next turn.
- Settler being produced in Iznik can be changed now to something else since our target spot is taken : there is still one GOOD (wheat and game) spot NE of Ankara, we should go for it with the settler on the road east and if he fails he can join Ankara in order to beef up this very important city.

Suddenly the Chinese are Cautious but they were Polite all the time, no idea why : we have 11 turns left at 18gpt before we could get Republic. We should still not build treasury as we can not afford to stand up to demands yet.

All in all a nice round with discovery of Zulus, tech parity reached, a few cities settled, Horse connected next turn. I think Voodoo's next round will be the end of peaceful land grab and we should look into building our Military for massive warrior/horseman rush.
We might want to start a prebuild for a Wonder (Leo seems to be the best fit for our tactic).
Also the Palace could be moved to Urskudar at one point.

Looking into the future : our 2 resources are so far from our Core, it will be a real struggle to hold on to both of those during war. I would prefer a "Sirian/Sulla strategy" of early expansion and trading, building up Mil units to then strike later against the AIs. At the moment we will not stand a chance vs any AIs. We will need to get either Germany with us vs Rome or other way around.

We should not strike until the advent of our Great SIPAHI.

To prepare this strategy we should establish Embassy with either Rome or Germany, as we need of one of the 2 as a strong ally. Also the warrior/swordsmen rush should be forgotten since their Legion beat our Swordsmen.
The early war might be too risky.

Of course this is just to get the debate going, we might want to take some time talking between us this week-end to chat before we move on, I feel it's now time for strategic choices.

Go Voodoocat !

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF1-Osman,_750_BC.SAV

ps: Sorry but I still can not get a decent screenshot online for the moment.

Skyfish

Jan 03, 2003, 08:56 AM

West of our Empire :

Skyfish

Jan 03, 2003, 08:58 AM

...and East :

voodoocat

Jan 03, 2003, 05:28 PM

Got it. I'll play Saturday night more than likely. Things are looking good.

Sullla

Jan 03, 2003, 06:09 PM

Seeing as how my name has been mentioned a bit in the group discussions, I wanted to pop by and let you guys know that you are doing a very good job. From this position, you should be able to pursue any victory goal you desire. I would offer the suggestion that if one of your neighbors is starting to collapse, jump in on the side of the winners and grab some more land for yourselves. But even if you go the peaceful route, you probably are in a good position to trade your way to a diplo/space victory. Excellent work, and I wish you the best of luck with this game. :goodjob:

Skyfish

Jan 04, 2003, 05:18 AM

Great ! :D
Thanks a lot for the kind words Sulla, don't hesitate to drop by more often and give us some advice.
I learned a lot from your Emperor training game and I hope you can soon organize a Deity one : any plans ?
C U soon at RBE !

Skyfish

Jan 04, 2003, 05:18 PM

OK the idea I have is to heavily build infrastructure in our empire right now, mainly Libraries, in order to AT ONE POINT (which still needs to be determined), start researching ourselves.
The reasons being the following :
- We are Scientific and should take advantage of our trait.
- The Sipahi ! In order to compensate for the AI "build advantage" (they have huge armies) we could get ahead just before Mil Tradition in order to launch a major Sipahi attack on someone. I feel there is always that lapse between Mil Trad and Nationalism, where Cavalry is just deadly, the earlier we get there the more we can use it. If we are not in front the AI will get to Nationalism very fast and counter efficiently our Sipahi attack.

Just a thought.

voodoocat

Jan 04, 2003, 05:35 PM

Sapahi in #'s (along with artillary) can take out Infantry... I've never held back with Sapahi against Rifles. If we can get a small lead at that point of the game we could slow down the progress of the game by getting big gpt deals and extend the life of our UU.

Skyfish

Jan 04, 2003, 05:53 PM

I am glad you have experience with it.

I have never played PTW before and moreover I never play private games ! I only have time for 2/3 games a month so this month it's GOTM15, RB Epic 21 and 2 SGs (RBP4 and this one).

No time for more, except maybe at the end of the month.

What do you mean by "slowing down the progress of the game" and "getting big gpt deals" ?
I imagine if we get gpt deals that will be by selling techs but if we do that it will "speed up" the progress of the game no ?

Speaker

Jan 04, 2003, 10:48 PM

Hey guys. Because there was way way way too much snow in the northeast, I was unable to go to the Jets game (which would have been great since it was such a romp). Anyways, I'll be back to pick up my turn as soon as Voodocat is finished.

voodoocat

Jan 05, 2003, 03:33 AM

It takes more attention to detail on deity. If you get a lead you start by selling techs for gpt. Research quicker. Then begin to sell dead end techs slowing the pace. You can speed it up again and get yourself a quick UN or Space Race. Unless of course you want domination or conquest in which case you want the techs to go slow to get more out of your troops.

Speaker

Jan 05, 2003, 02:49 PM

I've got an exciting announcement to make..........................I have won my first ever solo game on Deity!

PS- This was not me shadowing our SG. It was a different game.

Speaker

Jan 05, 2003, 07:52 PM

It seems to me, after reading Bamspeedy's report on GOTM 14, that our best bet is to beat down Germany during the Middle Ages and stay caught up in tech, so that we can use our free Industrial Age tech to secure ToE and Hoover and a tech lead for the rest of the game. It's all so easy...

Edit: Germany being the only other Scientific civ, so they would get a free advance as well.

Skyfish

Jan 06, 2003, 02:58 AM

Well done Speaker !
I agree with your strategy.

voodoocat

Jan 06, 2003, 03:08 AM

Sorry for the delay. I hand it off to Speaker. Congrats on beating Deity.

Preturn 750BC: Everything looks good.

enter...

730BC (01) - Bursa finishes and starts Spear sending to Mugla. Settle Denizli on hills to avoid lands being grabbed by the Germans. We connect horses all the way to Istanbul. Irrigate horses for soon to be Republic.
710BC (02) - MM Edrine to avoid disorder. no loss in gp. Antayla set from spear to aqueduct for MP placehold as the AI has entered the Middle Age. except for Zulu. No great deal on it yet.
690BC (03) - Aydin builds library. on temple for now. We build barracks in Edrine. Horse ordered. Uskudar builds granary
IT: Rome builds GL. Munich builds The Great Wall. Beijing builds Hanging Gardens
670BC (04) - Moved Settler towards Eastern-most site
650BC (05) - Spear in Bursa. Currency to get us MP and into Middle ages with our free tech 9gpt WM and 71 gp. Can almost make deal with Japan for our gp.
IT: German settler is going home :) Istanbul builds Settler
630BC (06) - Settler built in Istanbul. MP ordered for now. Same ordered in Izmit. Should have done this last turn but I start research on Engineering.
610BC (07) - Finally a deal worth taking. 104 gp and 2gpt and monotheism for Republic. We can afford the payments when our gpt starts going up in a few turns.
IT: Oops... :smoke: Edrine goes inactive for disorder. delays horse.
590BC (08) - Bolu is founded. Edrine gets entertainer. Rome threatens to harm us if we don't pay TM and 5 gold.... ok
570BC (09) - Rome has Engineering. Germany Feud. China Feudal. Zulu none. Japan Feud.
550BC (10) - Konya builds library. Then after barracks are ordered we get 10 shields towards their construction. 1 more turn left on 18gpt. deal. Ankara in perfect position to whip one citizen for 20 shields for a library. Urfa settled. Warrior on tip disbanded. Horse sent north-west.

Here is a quickview at our empire.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF1-Ottomans550bc.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/cf1-voodoocat03-550bc.sav

Speaker

Jan 06, 2003, 11:47 AM

Got it.

q33555

Jan 06, 2003, 01:10 PM

Well it all looks like its going swimmingly at the moment :) .

I can agree with suggested strategy re beating up on Germany - ties in quite nicely with our Sipahi anyway.

Just to let you guys know I've been sent to Atlanta on one days notice and will be there for the rest of this week. Therefore if it gets round to me again before the weekend then you'll just have to skip me I'm afraid :(

Oh, and congrats to Speaker :goodjob: . I really should work to get that solo victory. I just completed GOTM15 at the weekend. I got a bonus settler from the first goody hut and from that moment on the game was never really in doubt - won by domination in the 1300s. Its amazing how a couple of months or so ago I would have been chewed up by Monarch!

voodoocat

Jan 06, 2003, 01:24 PM

Hey q33555. I finished GOTM15 in 1600AD by UN. I got a free settler too. When I got my GA from building Newtons I decided for the UN. I had 60 cossacks that never got used... I was bout to attack to spark my GA.

Speaker

Jan 06, 2003, 01:26 PM

550BC (0) Survey Empire and talk to our rivals to see where we stand. Monarchy, Feudalism, and Engineering behind Rome, and Feudalism and Monarchy behind everyone else but Zulu who are Monotheism and Republic behind me. Notice that we regain 18gpt next turn and 17 gpt the turn after that, and hope that engineering is not passed around before those deals expire. Trade WM around for 10 gold and Zulu TM. I hope we have been doing this all along. Hit enter.

PT- German settler/spear pair takes a step into our territory. Where could they be headed?

530BC (1) Ankara completes Library and begins acqueduct. Reasoning is that the area is food rich and since Ankara only gets 1 spt, it will take a long time to build anything. If q33555 wants to change it, feel free. Denzili completes warrior and begins Library. Now making 26 gpt. Trade WM around for 5 gold. Rome will not part with Engineering. Galley and settler moved toward each other. Spearman fortified in Uskudar, which is MM to grow in 2 more turns. Bursa MM to grow in 20 turns instead of never. Entertainer fired at Edrine, spearmen in 2, growth in 5. Mugla MM to grow twice as fast without losing any production (due to corruption). Terrain improved all around.

PT- 10 Shields returned to Iznik from forestry. Otto demands TM and 20 gold. Fine. He then moves his settler/spear pair out of our territory again.

510BC (2) Weed alert. Someone has been foresting a square with two workers that is right between Iznik, Uskudar, and Istanbul, but does not fall inside any of their borders. We have lost the cultural battle to Germany by 1 turn :(. We'll see if our borders expand and take some of the silks. I doubt it. Production switched from barracks to temple to try to rectify the situation. Trade Shaka the Republic with WM and 14 gold for Monarchy. Trade WM around for 1 gold from everyone.

PT- Mao demands TM and 19 gold. At this rate, we're not going to be able to keep any money to buy engineering from Rome, but of course I give in.

490BC (3) Edrine and Bursa finishes spear and start Library. Konya expands and grabs one silk :). We now have 3 luxuries. Scientist switched to Salonika, the only city who requires an entertainer. Trade around WM. Zulu have caught up with us, Rome is still engineering and feudalism ahead, and everyone else is just feudalism. COntinue terrain improvements.

PT- Germans are building Sun Tzu in Berlin, but so are the Romans in Rome and the Chinese in Canton. Good luck Otto.

470BC (4) Nothing much happens. Just terrain improvements and normal map trading.

450BC (5) I notice that I have been smoking some weed. That settler had been intended for a small fishing village, so I put it back on land, having wasted several turns. Trade around WM some more. After much deliberation, decide that there could be an island southwest of Urfa. With nothing else for our Galley to do, I decide to send him on a mission: brave the rough seas and find land.

PT- He fails. New hamburg founded in the one square next to Ankara. Not sure how I could have avoided that. Maybe I could have moved a warrior from Ankara to block the square. Yeah, thats probably what I should have done.

430BC (6) Mostly terrain improvements. Rome still won't trade engineering. Trade around maps.

410BC (7) Istanbul finishes marketplace, starts library. Antalya finishes aqueduct, starts spearman. Trade around WM.

PT- Edrine finishes Library, starts marketplace. Bolu finishes warrior,starts library.

390BC (8) Rome now has Theology. Improve terrain. Trade WM.

PT- Zulu galley approaches the one open square near our core.

370BC (9) I quickly move the warrior from Antalya to block (this is the only warrior who can reach the spot). Entertainer must be hired to keep the peace until a spearman is finished next turn. I don't like leaving the city wide open, as the galley could just unload a unit straight into Antalya if it so chose, but we dont want a ZUlu city to be plopped right there. Bingol founded as a fishing village. Trade WM and continue terrain improvements. Mao now has engineering and wants 36gpt plus 282 gold for it, but can be talked down to 31gpt and 280 gpt. I decide not to bite for now, since Otto and Tokugawa must be close to it by now, and we should continue switching to Republic in the next few turns, so we will not be able to afford those payments.

PT- Zulu galley moves on and Antalya finishes its spearman and starts on a Library. Istanbul finishes Library and starts spearman. Urfa finishes warrior and starts on harbor. Japanese begin Sun Tzu.

360BC (10) The warrior moves back toward Antalya. German horseman and Roman spear are moving through our territory, but what can we do? Trade WM around and continue to improve terrain.

In Conclusion: Shaka now has feudalism, so any deal for engineering can definitely be brokered to him. I leave that decision to q33555. We are now making 38gpt and have 324 in the bank. I spent a good deal of my turn irrigating grasslands, preparing for our switch to Republic, which should happen imminently. Marketplaces are nearly finished in much of our core, and a switch will greatly improve our position. The downside, however, is that being non-Religious, we will have to deal with anarchy, so we will fall behind in tech (I consider us to be at parity now, since we can afford the deals needed to get us there) by losing our income for the turns it takes to get control of the government. If we do switch to Republic, we should consider some embassies in at least our closest rival's capitals to improve their mood toward us. The government switch will help too. Also, Konya can be whipped at the cost of 2 citizens to finish its temple, and oh my god. I can't believe I didn't notice this, but Rome is at war with Germany! Dortmund and Frankfurt are now occupied by Rome, and another German city nearby has been destroyed. If you can build up some military, q33555, you might get in on Rome's side and grab a city or two for us. Sorry about the couple weedy moves guys. I'll make them up next turn.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/cf1speaker03-350bc.sav

Speaker

Jan 06, 2003, 01:44 PM

Here is a screenie:

Speaker

Jan 06, 2003, 01:47 PM

And another:

q33555

Jan 06, 2003, 03:40 PM

Good work on the quick turnaround Speaker! Unfortunately I've only just got home and I'm not going to get a chance to squeeze in my turns before tomorrow :( (not if I want to do it properly anyway ;) ).

Skyfish - you're up!

Voodoocat - On GOTM15 I took the early military route. Wiped out China v. early, took out Germany with Knights then waited for Cossacks before walking through the rest of the continent. My GA lasted just long enough for me to wipe out Egypt and Zulu :) . After that it was just build up a big enough Armada and sail to the other continent and take enough to push me over the domination limit. The only difficulty I had was managing cash! I had to research all my own techs as the AIs were just so slow so I never had a large gpt surplus.

Skyfish

Jan 07, 2003, 03:00 AM

No GOTM spoilers please : I have barely started the game !

Skyfish

Jan 07, 2003, 01:30 PM

OK I got it guys !

Off topic :
I came 17th in GOTM14 with one of the highest loss !
WOW guys Unbelievable : I never even imagined such a loss could rank so high !:eek: :confused: :D ;)

I run a total gambit in that game and it's amazing it worked out so well for me...I won't do it again though.

Anyway back to work as I don't want another loss at Deity, even a good one ;)

Skyfish

Jan 08, 2003, 02:53 PM

Sit down to read that one :

Pre-turn :
Istanbul switched to Temple. Aydin MM to avoid riot. We have a Marketplace finishing in 1 turn so I don't revolt now
1. 330BC : Bursa completes Library, a sttler finishes a Fortress ?????????? near Antalya, major weed guys what a total waste of time, we gotta watch out more.
SWITCH TO REPUBLIC, and drawing.....5 turns of Anarchy : could have been worse, and the minimum ever is 4 turns so, not too bad.
2. 310bc : Losing -11g per turn, we got 350+ treasure, cool. Can not trade anything in Anarchy though. Damn Germans build on Salonika island. Just future flip victims guys...
3. 290bc : managing workers of course, only thing I can do in Anarchy. Just 3 turns to go.
4. 270bc : idem
5. 250bc : The Chinese are moving Horsemen out of Dortmund to the north of Adana. The Japanese ask for tribute, WM + 34g : looking at their position they are no real threat until Navigation+Magnetism so I take a huge gamble and say "Up Yours" : they declare war on us !
I want to get China and Zulu against them so the AIs start warring and we can get some progress.
6. 230bc : Bingo Republic ! We make a whopping +57gpt will use that money to get my strategy in place :
- Establish Embassy with the Chinese for 65g. They build Rider at 11/turn, pop of 9, they ahve Hanging Gardens and a temple only as infrastructure. 2 dyes, 3 ivory , 3 gems, 1 horse, 1 iron. 4 spearman garrison.
- Embassy in Zimbabwe (65g) : Building Barracks, prod of 11, pop of 8, garrison of 4 Impis, good infrastructure : temple, Library, Cathedral, Colosseum, the Oracle, only 5 furs, 1 horse, 2 irons (one right next to Zimbabwe).
Do the following trades :
Military alliance vs Japan with the Zulus for 94g + 10gpt + WM.
Military alliance vs Japan PLUS Feudalism with the Chinese for 100g + 41gpt + WM.
Everyone Polite except Romans annoyed.
Ruined our economy butthis will get the AIs busy warring at each other so we can make up some ground. Got Feudalism at last civ price and a big gpt deal will keep the Chinese at bay.Remmeber they were moving massively towards Adana.
Also one of the main reason was to combine an Alllaince with a Tech deal as I know for sure the Chinese will brreak that ALliance well before the 20 turns as AIs often do that. If they break the alliance, we get the tech for much less.
Let's just hope the Japs are not going to convince Rome to enter an allaince with them.
7. 210bc : Uskudar builds Marketplace, set to Temple. Island Salonika gets unhappy we can't keep our Scientist there, will find another place.
No sign of the Japanese...Scientist set in Bolu.
8. 190bc : Izmit produces another Marketplace and we jump to 22gpt (from 6gpt 2 turns ago). Nice. Switch to Pikeman. I remember Speaker's good advice and do a round of WM trade, get us 5 g.
9. 170bc : Istanbul builds Temple, set to Cathedral. Buy Library for 48g in Mugla to counter flips (still had 12 turns to go! good deal). We get a Palace extension !the first one ! Yes !
10.150bc : Germany and China sign an Alliance against Japan : yeeha ! the plan is working still no sign of Japs anywhere. I love to think about the stupid AIs cnow oncentrating all their economy on war.
Temple produced in Aydin, set to Courthouse as this is a productive city and we are losing too much to corruption, please leave it like that.
Marketplace completes in Kafa, set to Acqueduct. Library produced in Mugla, set to Temple : we need the culture over there. Romans now coming in our territory to wipe out some German villages.
That would help us a lot, let them do it.
I would not declare vs Germans though, we are still wery weak and that would disturb the New World Order I created, by now having all AIs warring.

Use gold to buy Libraries in corrupt cities, make sure you are on "Always renegotiate deals" so right at the end of of our deal with China & Zulu we can cancel it and make peace with Japan. Let's not push the gamble too far...
Need to mine grassland around Edrine to let the fishing villages grow, we need to irrigate Uskudar as it is not growing. Also Irrigate to Adana and MM Ankara.
Very important : As soon as you get money back from those trades being cancelled get an Embassy with Rome as they are the big danger.
Germany is getting totally destroyed and we are applying cultural pressure on Roman cities which the AI hates and they might turn their war machine against us.
Also we should use our Feudalism and build many more Pikemen, it's total war out there and we need more defence.

OK guys I really hope I did not f*** up our beautiful Deity game here, it was a calculated risk and up to now it has paid off.
Shoot me if you disagree.
:rocket: :slay: :rocket2: :ripper:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF1-Skyfish,_150_BC.SAV

voodoocat

Jan 08, 2003, 03:55 PM

It looks like good work skyfish. We need the AI to war. With all these aggresive civs they should fight until we get sapahi and then we'll get them while they're weak.

Speaker

Jan 08, 2003, 04:19 PM

The only thing I might have done differently was establish an embassy in Rome first since they are our nearest and most potent threat. Other than that, I can't argue with your results. :goodjob:

voodoocat

Jan 08, 2003, 04:26 PM

Are we going to wait on q33555 or should we skip this time around? It doesn't matter to me, what do you guys want? He comes back on the weekend. Tomorrow and Friday are my days off.

Speaker

Jan 08, 2003, 04:32 PM

I would say that you should do your turn Voodocat and then I'll do mine, and hopefully q33555 will be back by then.

voodoocat

Jan 08, 2003, 05:04 PM

Ok I'll take us another 10 turns. I think I am ready to start kicking some ass at civ. I've been a bit blah the last couple days.

Skyfish

Jan 09, 2003, 03:03 AM

Yes Speaker, you are right about the embassy in Rome.

Problem was : I did not have enough money at all to do it...I had to make a choice as to which embassies and I chose Zulu because they were very close to Japan and alone on that continent, they need to be kept busy. Rome is already in major war with Germany and it is very uncertain that they would have agreed to an alliance vs Japan....
The choice of China was strictly to get Feudalism cheaper.

Thanks for the support guys, let's hope we can keep Rome at bay and that China is indeed going to break the Alliance soon, we need the money in order to not stay too mcuh behind in Techs.
We'll never get Leo though...

voodoocat

Jan 09, 2003, 04:53 PM

A
Preturn - Sinop is MM to produce barracks in 2 from 3 and grow to 7 in 4. Bolu's scientist is fired and Salonika hires one. Aydin fired entertainer. I gained a total of 4 gpt. Now treasury is 30 gp and 31gpt

150BC (01) - Antayla builds Library. I decide to change Iznik to a courthouse instead of a mp. There are 7 corrupt gpt and 4 corrupt spt. We should make out better with the courthouse than the mp. And it comes 5 turns sooner.
130BC (02) - Bought TM from Romans for WM and 12gp. Romans are sure taking it to the Germans. Perhaps those cities will flip back. Or we could jump in at the last minute and poach some land.
IT: The Zulu are now building Leo's.
110BC(03) - Izma and Bursa both building pikes. One sent to Bolu our most remote of cities. We still can't afford to make any good trade. Things seem to be a little slower but we know we're behind Eng/Theo/Chiv and Invention. 2nd pike sent to guard our southern cities.
90BC (04) - Uskudar builds Temple. Is it too early to think prebuild for something like Smiths or another Wonder. I have a palace prebuild incase... Everyone has Theo's now. We can wait for Chiv till the end of the Middle ages. I decide to purchase Theos for 32gpt and 65 gp to the Zulu. The Chinese have Education
70BC (05) - Edrine builds MP. We have 6gpt now. By the time our 40gpt comes in we can maybe trade for Education. Edrine is building a worker and then temple which should allow it to be 9 and happy.
50BC (06) - Built courthouse and our gpt jumped 7... maybe a deal ended
30BC (07) - Everyone but Japan has Education now. Who knows if they have gunpowder.
10BC (08) - Adana produced Library. Denizli builds library courthouse ordered up. Our thrown room is expanded. Looks like our front running chinese have astronomy. They are building CO
10AD (09) - Istanbul builds Cathedral. Sistine is a prebuild for library.
30AD (10) - Weed on Ankara. Civil D/O, but it only loses one shield.

Checking our position:

We have 41 gpt going to China for 7 more turns. China is well into their GA which is why they are researching so quickly. Engineering due in 12 which gives us access to buying Invention. Rome is kicking the crap out of Germany. Our score is 990 germany is 2nd to last at 1185. We could build a courthouse then a FP at Sinop giving us a 2nd core.

Possible FP?

http://www.voodoocat.com/sg/cf1-ottomans/CF-1-30AD.jpg

Previous german empire.
http://www.voodoocat.com/sg/cf1-ottomans/CF-1-30AD02.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/cf1-voodoocat04-30ad.sav

Speaker

Jan 09, 2003, 05:08 PM

I don't think we can wait that long for Knights. Rome will take it to us after they are done with Germany if we don't have any strong units.

voodoocat

Jan 09, 2003, 05:27 PM

Muskets and larger cities will ease the pressure from rome. We should have that before they completely wipe out Germany if they do. I think China vs Rome would be great.

Speaker

Jan 09, 2003, 07:54 PM

Yeah, I'd like to see that too. Then we could get in on China's side and take some serious Roman territory.

Speaker

Jan 10, 2003, 09:59 AM

"Got it" by the way.

Skyfish

Jan 10, 2003, 06:20 PM

I do believe the Romans are going to turn vs us at one point.
Please establish an Embassy with them ASAP and try to make high gpt deals with them for techs..or maybe even enter an alliance with them vs Germany.
Indeed Sinop is a good place for FP. We should start building it after temple as it could also be used as a prebuild.

Speaker

Jan 10, 2003, 11:00 PM

PT- Open the turn to find Istanbul producing the Sistine Chapel, Uskudar producing a palace, while many of our core cities are protected by single units, most of them warriors! We are allied against Japan, but we have no way to attack them. I am under the impression that to avoid a negative stain, when in an alliance, you must make an attack on the enemy's territory. We have no chance of doing this. I change Izmit to Pikeman, and I will use Izmit at 10spt to produce a number of military units. Istanbul switched to Barracks. This city, at 20spt can produce a pikeman every 2 turns. I plan on making good use of that. After some thought, I decide to switch Uskudar to a courthouse, which will finish in 2 turns. I don't want to waste 20 shields by building a barracks, and the time to finish the courthouse should be enough to allow the mine to finish being built which with the waste removed, will help in producing units more efficiently. Other than that, it all looks ok. We are behind by three techs at least, and are paying out 83gpt, so I will have my work cut out for me in catching up. I hit enter.

50AD (1) Rome builds Sun Tzu, cascading the rest to Leonardo, Sistine, and Copernicus. Izmit builds a pike and sends it to Ankara. I establish an embassy with Rome for a mere 59 gold. Rome is protected by 4 regular pikemen, produces 14gpt and is running at 80% science. Caesar is now cautious toward us. I trade around WM as usual.

70AD (2) Istanbul produces Barracks and starts on Pikeman. Edrine finishes temple and starts on barracks. I have decided to really beef up our military this round. Uskudar builds courthouse and starts on barracks. Weed on my part as Aydin falls into disorder. I will not let anything like this happen again. A lot of terrain improvements on this turn. MM Izmit and Istanbul so they can both grow and produce units at the same rate. I have been passing the wheat tile back and forth. I am building a rode to Rome so we can trade luxuries and as soon as China completes a road to Dortmund, we will trade them incense. Luxury trading is very useful in keeping up in tech on Deity.

90AD (3) Terrain improvements and such.

IT-Rome sneak attacks us with a single Longbowman on Mugla, which is killed, reducing our spearman to 2 hp. Our people celebrate by giving our "palace" a nice lawn and walkway.

110AD (4) I do the only thing I can to keep us alive. I pay China 14gpt and 137 gold to ally with us against Rome. This will kill our income and probably cause us to fall farther behind in tech, but that is better than being killed right? Mao is now gracious toward us, in any event. I don't bother with the Zulu because they are so far away and will not provide us with any help, and we just can't afford it. Pikeman rerouted to the Roman front. Bursa switched from aqueduct to Medieval Infantry, wasting 0 shields. We need the military and the city is not growing fast enough to need the aqueduct urgently. Mugla switched from temple to barracks.

130AD (5) Bursa completes medieval infantry and starts another one. Izmit produces Pikeman and starts a Medieval Infantry. Antalya finishes marketplace and starts barracks. I trade Mao Incense, 27 gold, 10gpt, and our WM for Chivalry. If we are to fight against Rome, we need some real troops and Knights are the way to go. We will be ending 2 deals in 2 turns, getting back 51gpt, and I'll get us most of the way caught up in tech then.

IT- Roman spear pillages near Mugla.

150AD (6) Istanbul produces Medieval Infantry, starts Knight. Uskudar and Edrine finish their barracks and start on Pikemen and Aydin finishes courthouse and starts barracks. I run our scientist for now out of Urfa because no cities are in disorder, with the exception of Salonika, who cannot support a scientist. One pikeman reaches Mugla and a Medieval Infantry and another pike are ready to help defend it.

170AD (7) Medieval Infantry trounces Roman spear, not taking a single hit. Alliance against the Japanese cancelled and Mao remains Gracious and Shaka remains polite. Would someone tell me what the deal with alliances is? Japan wants 20 gold for peace, so obviously I decline. We did fight the war over tribute to begin with. I round up a few warriors and send them toward cities with barracks. We will use our income for the next couple turns to upgrade a few to Medieval Infantry. I want to take Lugdunum in this war and have a monopoly on the incense trade.

190AD (8) Kafa produces aqueduct and starts library. this will be a good city, but seriously lacks development. Bingol finishes harbor and starts temple. This can be changed by the next player if he so desires. Our palace gets some steps. Our Medieval Infantry attacks across a river and kills a Roman longbowman, taking off 2 hp, but promoting to elite. He is covered in the field by a pikeman. One warrior pays 60 gold and trades in his axe for a mace. Japan still wants money for peace and I tell Tokugawa where to stick it.

IT- Chinese troops stream into Rome. Germany is down to 4 cities. We should consider taking the two near Konya.

210AD (9) Edrine builds pike, starts another pike. Uskudar builds pike, starts another pike. Ismit builds Medieval Infantry, starts another Medieval Infantry.