No it was built earlier... by a French company led by Fredinand de Lesseps.

The question remains: when??

1869.

And, contrary to popular myth, Verdi's Aida did not premiere at the opening ceremony.

You're right Illustrious, actually the first ship passed through in 1867, but it was opened in 1869.

Now it's your turn to post a question...

Originally posted by Hamlet


That's true. I also don't think people should ask purposefully obscure questions that they know people won't know, and won't have a chance in hell of getting, either. Try and make them sensibly achievable for others.

I don't know if you meant my questions, but they were achievable. Google, you know? No hard feelings however.

Originally posted by Siggy
I don't know if you meant my questions,

No, not at all. It was just a general point. :)

OK I guess I'd better post my question.

Six noble battles or campaigns, which is the odd one out and why? I'll give you a clue - it's got nothing to do with date or location.

Cape St Vincent
The Nile
Waterloo
Khartoum
El Alamein
Burma

Originally posted by Illustrious
OK I guess I'd better post my question.

Six noble battles or campaigns, which is the odd one out and why? I'll give you a clue - it's got nothing to do with date or location.

Cape St Vincent
The Nile
Waterloo
Khartoum
El Alamein
Burma

the french did not loose El Alamein. I dont recall the St. Vincent, Burma or the Nile, so im proberly wrong.

Originally posted by Yoda Power
the french did not loose El Alamein. I dont recall the St. Vincent, Burma or the Nile, so im proberly wrong.
No, I don't think this is right. Each of these has a different antagonist for Britain to heroically overcome. Does "The Nile" refer to Aboukir Bay?

Darn you, Illustrious, you always have such hard questions! :worshp:

Originally posted by napoleon526

No, I don't think this is right. Each of these has a different antagonist for Britain to heroically overcome. Does "The Nile" refer to Aboukir Bay?

Darn you, Illustrious, you always have such hard questions! :worshp:

Yes, it's Aboukir Bay.

For the avoidance of doubt, we can now say that the answer is not about time, place or identity of the non-British opponent.

Hard questions? Not I, guvnor. When you see the answer, it will appear oh so simple! :cool:

this a huge wild guess and dont think iam idiot but............. Was the current union jack not flying over the battle of Nile?

Originally posted by Constantine
this a huge wild guess and dont think iam idiot but............. Was the current union jack not flying over the battle of Nile?

No, you're by no means an idiot, since it's absolutely true what you say - the existing Union Flag was not initiated till the second Act of Union in 1800.

However, that is essentially a date-related answer, so is not what I seek.

Four days and no correct answers. No answers at all for three days - it's probably time for the clue.

In fact, one clue was already included in the original question. If you peer very closely at it you might get the hint. Don't think so much about the battle or campaign, think more about people.

Originally posted by Illustrious
OK I guess I'd better post my question.

Six noble battles or campaigns, which is the odd one out and why? I'll give you a clue - it's got nothing to do with date or location.

Cape St Vincent
The Nile
Waterloo
Khartoum
El Alamein
Burma

Here's a correct answer. Cape St Vincent has a V in it and the others don't.

This kind of question is inherently flawed. There are probably trillions of correct answers, but none of us are psychic.

Originally posted by calgacus
This kind of question is inherently flawed. There are probably trillions of correct answers, but none of us are psychic.
Even if there were "probably trillions of correct answers", it's a pity you couldn't think of one, but could only come up with a trivial and pathetic gibe.

In fact, there are very few possible answers other than the one I have in mind that could in any respect be termed correct. As I indicated, there is a clue in the initial question that narrows the scope of the question down considerably, and I subsequently posted a further clue narrowing it down further.

You don't have to be psychic - knowledgeable would do.

That post seemed a wee bittie hostile, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. :)

If you read my post you'd have realized that I did give one answer. I'll even give you another: the Nile, because it is the only one which is the name of a river.Or even, following your "clue", the Nile is the only. That "trivial and pathetic gibe" was intended to illustrate the not so trivial and pathetic point, that the nature of this kind of question makes it flawed for the purposes of a public quiz. Your clue only narrows it down to trillions!

Originally posted by calgacus That post seemed a wee bittie hostile, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.Largely because your initial post seemed a just wee bittie flippant and offensive. Benefit of the doubt herewith reciprocated. ;)

Your clue only narrows it down to trillions!

Only if - as you have now done in two posts - one chooses to offer non-historical suggestions to what is (as per the thread title) a quiz about history. Since it is obvious that the Nile's status as a river is not going to be relevant, why even suggest it? Since the existence of the letter "V" in one of the names has no relevance to a question of history, why suggest that?

If, as you seem to believe, there are so many historical answers to choose from, you might do better to try suggesting them. It really isn't that difficult, honest.

Constantine showed the nous to attempt that - it is unfortunate that the answer he gave was incorrect (not only does the question specifically rule out date-based answers, but the status of the Union Flag he referred to also applied to St Vincent, as well as the Nile).

Perhaps it is truer to suggest that, rather than seeing "trillions" of potential answers of a historical nature, you in fact cannot come up with any...?

What the question seeks to do is to oblige people to consider what they know about each of the six battles/campaigns, with the stated proviso that the emphasis is on people connected with them (and taking account of the linguistic hints incorporated in the question and subsequent post), and to see connections. Following those connections through should reveal a difference exhibited by one of them and one alone.

It is not that such a question is "flawed" - it is rather that the question requires people to know about more than a single fact when answering, and requires them to do slightly more than look something up in a book or on Google.

To suggest that requiring breadth of knowledge and lateral thinking is inappropriate for a public quiz is truly a terrifying thing.

Does the hidden clue have anything to do with the word "noble"?

Originally posted by Illustrious

To suggest that requiring breadth of knowledge and lateral thinking is inappropriate for a public quiz is truly a terrifying thing.

You know I didn't suggest that.

My point stands.

I can't give you an answer because I know very little about the Napoleonic Wars, and I have too much work to find an answer with a high probabilty of being "correct". But that kind of question is one of those little things which irritate me. Other kind of questions which drive me insane are ones like "who was the Greek god of the sun" or "who was the first...", questions where one true answer is implied as possible but where, in fact, the matter is much more complicated.

Originally posted by Yop73
Does the hidden clue have anything to do with the word "noble"?
Sure does.:goodjob:

Originally posted by calgacus
You know I didn't suggest that.

My point stands.

I can't give you an answer because I know very little about the Napoleonic Wars, and I have too much work to find an answer with a high probabilty of being "correct". But that kind of question is one of those little things which irritate me. Other kind of questions which drive me insane are ones like "who was the Greek god of the sun" or "who was the first...", questions where one true answer is implied as possible but where, in fact, the matter is much more complicated.

I know you didn't. But there is a danger your comments could be read as implying it.

The "who was the first..." ones often annoy me as well. I normally deal with the annoyance by educating the poster, giving him the full story including the alternatives.

Believe me, if someone can come up with a sensible alternative solution to my question, I'll be only too happy. The odds are, however, against it - I carefully chose campaigns which were sufficiently dissimilar that the common link I have in mind is almost certainly the only overt one.

Who invented the M-16

What cannon does the Sherman have

Who invented the AK-47

What cannons were mounted on the spitfire Mk. IX

Eugene Stoner

75 mm Gun (i don't know how much this is in inch)

Mikhail Timefeyevich Kalashnikov

2 x 20mm cannons + 4 x 7.7 maschineguns

btw, illustrious' question has'nt yet benn answered. Or did i just miss it?

No,you didn't.I think Yop73 knows it or at least most of it,but a full answer wasn't given yet.

Nope, I don't have a clue.
It's really a hard question.

...noble...hmmm...

Were the victorious commanders in each battle given some title based on their victory? Let me think...

St. Vincent -- Earl St. Vincent (can't remember his real name)
Nile -- Nelson
Waterloo -- Wellington
Khartoum -- Kitchner?
El Alamein -- Mongomery
Burma -- Slim

I think napoleon526 has the right idea; my guess is that the victors in 5 of these 6 battles were given noble titles as a reward. Looking at the battles specifically:

Cape St Vincent: Nelson was knighted for his role in this battle.

Battle of the Nile: Nelson again, only this time raised to the status of baron for his victory.

Waterloo: Not sure exactly about this one. Wellington was granted money to buy the Hampshire estate of Strathfieldsaye for winning, but as far as I can tell was not given a noble title. This may be the odd one out.

Khartoum: Kitchener was ennobled for defeating the Mahdi at Omdurman and occupying Khartoum in 1898.

El-Alamein: Bernard Montgomery was granted the title Viscount of Alamein somewhat after the fact in 1946.

Burma: Couldn't find enough information on this one, though not from lack of searching. After an hour, I decided to call it quits.

My guess is that Waterloo is the battle singled out, since as far as I can tell, no one was given a noble title for winning there. It could also be Burma, since I didn't find anything on that campaign with regards to noble titles. Or I could be completely wrong altogether. :p In any case, maybe Illustrious should just spill the beans on what he was looking for, since it's unlikely anyone will be able to guess EXACTLY what he had in mind. I hope that this is pretty close to what you were going for.

Burma is more of a campaign, taking place over several years, than a battle. Field Marshal William Slim was in command, but I don't know if he was given any title for holding off the Japanese.

Where's Illustrious? We need answers!

bump

Where is illustrious? Nobody knows...

Sorry chaps! Been called away for a week or so on urgent business, and not had access to the forum.

Napoleon and Sulla have got the right principle - Sulla, while not hitting all the details, has successfully narrowed it down to the correct answer for all the right reasons. The response in full is:

All but one of these battles or campaigns saw a victorious British leader receive a title of nobility which took its name from the campaign.

The battle of Cape St Vincent saw Admiral Sir John Jervis become the first Earl of St Vincent;

The Nile (Aboukir Bay) saw Horatio Nelson raised to become Baron Nelson of the Nile;

The Khartoum campaign saw General Horatio Herbert Kitchener become Baron Kitchener of Khartoum;

Following El Alamein, Bernard Law Montgomery became Viscount Montgomery of El Alamein;

The Burma campaign saw many successful generals and admirals win titles, among whom Admiral Louis Mountbatten accepted the title of Earl Mountbatten of Burma;

Although it was his greatest victory, Arthur Wellesley (First Duke of Wellington and Marquess of Douro) did not take any of his titles of nobility from Waterloo, neither did any of the subordinate generals at the battle. Wellesley took his Dukedom's name from a Somerset town, and his Marquisate from a river in the Iberian Peninsula.

Many congrats to sulla, and some (albeit fewer) to napoleon!

Hey, looks like my conjectures were pretty close to accurate and I came up with the right answer - if not for exactly the right reason. I'll remember that when I'm studying British politics and law at Oxford this summer.

Does this mean that I get to ask the next question? I'm not entirely familiar with the rules of this thread. :)

Yes

Thanks calgacus, that's the quickest response I've ever seen. I go back to the World History Forum and see that's there's already a response. :D

Alright, I worked on researching this topic last summer and it deals with my hometown of Baltimore, so it should be a pretty good question. First of all, who designed the first American flag? (hint: it's not Betsy Ross) Why did the famous Star Spangled Banner flag which flew over Fort McHenry during the War of 1812 have 15 stars and 15 stripes even though there were 18 states in the US at that time? And finally, who proposed the current US flag design which consists of 13 stripes and one star for each state? Bonus points if you can give me the official names of these laws and the dates in which they were passed.

While we're on the subject of flags, as an aside I'd also give major props to anyone who can identify this flag which I came across in my research:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/mysteryflag.jpg

Don't feel that all of these have to be answered, I'm just glad to finally get a use for the work I did last year. Happy hunting! :)

Being a Baltimoron (ha!), I believe that I can answer some of these questions. The lady who designed the original American flag was Rebecca Young, and the flag was the "Grand Union" flag. I think that Mr President has that flag as his avatar.

Coincidentaly, Young's daughter, Mary Pickersgill, would one day create the huge flag that flew over Ft. McHenry, the one with fifteen stars and fifteen stripes. After the revolution, Kentucky and Vermont had become states, explaining the 15. After the Louisiana purchase, though, it became clear that many more states would enter the union, and a flag with dozens of stripes would be cluttered. For reasons I don't know, the 15 stars and stripes flag flew over the fort during the bombardment, even though there were now 18 states. I guess it was just too much of a hassle to make a new flag every time a state was added.

Mrs. Pickersgill's flag was the original "Star Spangled Banner" which inspired Francis Scott Key to compose his famous poem (and later song). You can still go and visit Mary's house in Baltimore. The flag is at the National Museum of American History in Washington.

I have no idea what that flag is, Sullla.

I'm aware that the only "proof" of Betsy Ross' claim to have designed the first flag is a somewhat questionable family letter referring to her doing so. What's the evidence that Rebecca Young was the actual designer? Somehow I've missed her story.

Rebecca Young did indeed design the Grand Union flag (also known as the Continental Colors), which looks like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/continentalcolors.gif

However, this was never recognized as an official US flag and it is not the one I was looking for. Good work on finding out that much though, and especially for turning up the name of Mary Pickersgill! :goodjob:

Since none of the questions I asked have been answered yet, I'll leave the topic open for now. I don't expect anyone to be able to guess the name of that other flag I posted; I'd really be shocked if someone came up with it. :D

It's John Paul Jones' Flag:p


Does that suprise you:eek:


(I know I saw it somewhere)

Originally posted by Alex the Great
It's John Paul Jones' Flag:p


Does that suprise you:eek:


(I know I saw it somewhere)
OMG, you're right!

Here's proof:
http://www.galleryoftherepublic.com/pages/amflags/jpj.html

I'm impressed Alex the Great, that flag is indeed the one that John Paul Jones flew on board the Bonhomme Richard and then later on the Serapis during its famous battle. Even more interestingly, Jones was able to get the Netherlands base on the island of Texel to recognize this as an official US flag and give it a gunfire salute. This is believed to be the first time a US flag was ever saluted by another nation - despite the fact that this doesn't look anything at all like the modern flag! Congrats on coming up with that answer; now if no one can solve my other questions, you'll be able to ask the next quiz question. :cool:

Originally posted by Sullla
Even more interestingly, Jones was able to get the Netherlands base on the island of Texel to recognize this as an official US flag and give it a gunfire salute. This is believed to be the first time a US flag was ever saluted by another nation - despite the fact that this doesn't look anything at all like the modern flag!

IIRC, it was actually saluted first by the Dutch Governor of the Caribbean island of St. Eustace in the Dutch Antilles. Barbara Tuchman wrote a book about it (which I *think* was called The First Salute ).

Originally posted by jack merchant


IIRC, it was actually saluted first by the Dutch Governor of the Caribbean island of St. Eustace in the Dutch Antilles. Barbara Tuchman wrote a book about it (which I *think* was called The First Salute ).
I love her books! Have you read "The Guns of August?" :goodjob:

Man, what a theme to write a book about. :confused:

Originally posted by napoleon526

I love her books! Have you read "The Guns of August?" :goodjob:



I think I may actually have read all of them ! I think I liked "A Distant Mirror" best though, as I knew very little about that era.

@Yop You might like "The First Salute"as it is a good book to disabuse people of the notion that the Americans achieved their independence all by themselves without foreign help. What happened in England and the role of the French, particularly at Yorktown, is also extensively discussed

The design of the first flag was proposed by Francis Hopkins, member of the congress and published in the flag reolution June 14, 1777.
Another act set the design to 15 stripes and stars in january 13, 1794 and was not updated till 1818, when it was decided to stay with 13 stripes and add one star for every new state on the 4th july after joining. pres Monroe approved the last act, but I dont know how proposed it