I have no idea what you're talking about. (;))

I thought.... Garrison and Fleet fight... Regent fighting, ruling.... Not fighting right, I mean.... The Regent...

The Garrison and the Fleet fight, they fight the symbiots. The REGENT coordinates the Imperial Structure... so why does he need to fight if he can just boost money support to the actual fighters, and keep developing the economic backbone of the Imperium?

Because the symbiots are destroying us as it is and now they're developing massive weapons of complete imperial destruction? That's why. The economic backbone of the Empire should be an afterthought right now.

So? The Regent can send money to the Fleet and the Garrison, and perhaps even Imperial Forces. Why are the Fleet and Garrison separate from the Regency if the Regent becomes another Military Arm of an Imperium without any Economic Arm? OOC: I want to read the Great Charter.

Hmm a statement will be forthcoming as per The Query's reaction and opinion to this as soon as we review the charter.

I'm not going to write an IC charter. too much work.

But you all know what it basically says if you read the first page.

OOC: Immac: Are elections not timed automatically by the sceptres? Will there not be an automatic election, following the stepping down of the Regent, immediately, regardless of the Cabinet or Regent's opinion? i.e. how do the sceptres know when to register votes?

But we want to debate over almost meaningless clauses, navigate ourselves through strangulating Legalese and quote various parts of it out of context!

Spryllino,
I hadnt thought of that- let me think of the potential consequences and get back to u. I'll try to answer by tomorrow.

How could a sceptre force an election? From what I understand of them they're basically space mobile phones?

It has some kind of super-sentient hivemind controlling it. We don't know what that mind is, but we expect it to be blond. And it probably have a halo and Immaculate clothing too.

It also just received a child: AKA a new Scepter.

Really?

The sceptres each represent a single vote for imperial regent. They are also each entrusted to a specific individual (characters within your house or one of the NPC factions). Every four years (4 turns; each turn is 1 Erebus year) a new regent will be voted into power. The candidates are free to campaign however they like but must be a sceptre holder. Voting is performed through the sceptres themselves and the vote represents the opinion of the sceptre-holder (and may or may not represent the opinion of the player controlling that noble house depending on character loyalty).

The imperial regent is heir to the throne of the assassinated emperor and of the imperial fleets, armies and espionage bureaus. The imperial regent must appoint a sceptre holder to each of these appointment: ‘Imperial Fleet Admiral’, ‘Imperial Garrison Captain’, and ‘Keeper of the Imperial Eye’. The sceptre holding reagent may assign his own house to any single one (and no more then one) of these appointments if they so wish (but will then have 2 of its characters involved in politics and less available for their own use (which could be good or bad). No single house can hold more then one of these appointments at any one time. Failure to vacate the seat after the election will result in prompt and rapid response by the other noble houses and by the church as well as the sceptres themselves which guard against this sort of behavior.

OOC: Well, in the past, the election time has been designated automatically, not at the whim of the current Regent. This suggests that - given that no-one living gives orders to the effect that an election should be carried out (Immac does) - it cannot be a noble that declares when the elections will be. Equally, it is clearly the sceptres that actually declare the results of the election (i.e. Immac does it, the Regent doesn't get the result and have to declare it or something). Therefore, what is to stop, say, me casting my vote for myself, no-one else expecting an election and therefore not casting votes, and thereby being declared Regent by the Sceptres? I obviously don't want to do that because I would have no legitimacy, but I can see the Sceptres causing trouble at this juncture. Or, if no-one votes, what's to stop the Sceptres nominating a random House or just going haywire? Or they could even nominate that Elf for the hell of it.

Also, the second bolded section suggests that the sceptres have power of their own.

4 Years period was probably set by The First Emperor.

Same with votes system. It's a mobile phone. Sender can be anonymous, but votes will be able to all. Think of a messaging board - you can PM certain person, Post a topic for certain persons or Post a open/closed poll. That's how I get scepters working.

I do not disagree with sceptres having "power of their own", they do, but I do disagree sceptres being "voting" designers. After all, sceptres are not designed by the Imperium (AFAIK).

OOC: Yes, since the scepters were not made by the Imperium, it can be understood that somebody, probably Eekin, programmed these scepters to behave in this way in an election. Unless the Transascendentals somehow predicted the rise of the Imperium, that is.

Scepters were not designed to work as voting system originally that is true but they were redesigned to do so.
After thinking about it, they will call for a new vote if there is no imperial regent or if the time-period passes. So if ekolite steps down without choosing successor they'll call for a vote but if he appoints seon, then they will accept that and sleep until regularly scheduled vote period.
I just made this up and i am not sure how well thought through it is, but ultimately i just have to make a judgement call. at least i'm not drunk on wood alcohol.

House Texier believes that this transfer of power is unconstitutional. How would we have liked it if Regent Kawalen had nominated a successor at will and ignored due process?

House Texier calls on Akatas to step down and call elections as soon as possible so he can be elected by the sceptre-holders if he truly is the best Regent (and if he doesn't have the confidence of the sceptre-holders, why should he be in office?), and so that he can actually present his and House Hyppean's plans for the war to the sceptre-holders so we can assess their conduct of it and vote accordingly.

House Texier does not have confidence in the current military command and does not believe it is legitimate and so will not be subsidising it, as we have been up to now, until a legitimate military command is imposed.

We call on Akatas, again, to call elections, as, if he truly is the best prospective Regent, he can easily prove it by showing us his plans, defending them, and convincing the Empire that his course is sound. If he attempts to rule without legitimate election rather than by proving that he can run the Empire well (and if he did that he would surely be elected) we can only expect that his Regency will have less legitimacy and stability, whereas if he holds elections, he will, on the basis of his reputation, and on the basis of the sound strategy and manifesto he will have brought before the Empire, be the best-recognised and best-chosen Regent we will ever have had, as well as being placed in office for the full term of a Regent.

I urge Ludenard Akatas to listen to my House's considered opinion in the interests of his own Regency and in the interests of the Empire's security and unity.

Jyut Texier

Cardinal Quelus Heventi
Of the Errovus Secondus Church of Universal Light,

agrees with the sound council of the Texier house.

And so that he can actually present his and House Hyppean's plans for the war to the sceptre-holders so we can assess their conduct of it and vote accordingly.

House Texier does not have confidence in the current military command and does not believe it is legitimate and so will not be subsidising it, as we have been up to now, until a legitimate military command is imposed.

A single house is only allowed one place in Imperial Offices, according to the (OOC: unwritten?) Code of Laws. More than one seat would be power abuse. We, House of Hyppean, are certain that Garrison Commander will be replaced with most suited candidate for the job, should previously mentioned noble from house of Koriate become new Regent. That means that House Koriate would be switching from Garrison commander position to Imperial Regent.

House Koriate has been one of the major players on the field against Symbiots. Surely you do not think that there could be a better emperor for the task at hand?

While Archibald Tarsenusis Is sick and unable to continue leading the empire with full force. It is still HIS reign time. We all agreed with this. And this means that HE has the right to change Imperial Positions, like garrison, fleet, The Eye and, even, Regency. House of Hyppean sees no issues with the switch of Regent as
1) Regent rules over imperial seats, including Regency itself
2) We assume that, New elections will be done on date, meaning house of Koriotate will not rule full term.
3) House Koritate has more experience in fighting with different threaths than Pious house of Holy Gate.

House Eekin:

While we agree that Leaders well versed in the art of war should be in positions that require such knowledge, the Office of Regent is not one of them. That Office is a bureaucratic and administrative office designed to manage the Imperial resources and supply said resources to the Commanders and keep the planets in line and producing so the Empire can provide the resources for war so the Commanders can do their jobs.

A man such as myself, cannot adequately manage the office of Regent as I lack the necessary skills to manage the resources required to manage the Empire or really keep the Empire united as it requires a high level of diplomacy and finesse that I lack, but I do have the necessary skills to manage a fleet and allocate the resources granted to the Fleet to wage war free from the distraction of the Civilian office of Regent.

We push for immediate elections if Archbishop Tarsenusis still desires to step down.

The code you refer to, House Hyppean, is written, and you misremember it:

The empire is dependent upon four divisions to operate and project its authority. Once a reagent to the phoenix throne is choosen, the reagent must immediately appoint a sceptre-holder to the positions of ‘commander of the imperial fleet’, ‘commander of the imperial garrison’, and ‘commander of the imperial eye’. No two of these three command positions may be held by individuals from the same noble house, church sect or guild house, though the reagent of the phoenix throne may appoint a second individual from their own house to one of these commands.

Ultimately, this is Akatas's decision to make, and he has our advice: his position would be far better, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the issue, if he calls elections and stands for the Regency that way.

I agree entirely with House Hyppean's excellent points. The Regent has the power to change the Imperial Offices at will, there is no reason at all why he cannot also appoint a caretaker Regent to rule in his leave.

I nominate Akatas for this role, if he does not accept then I am still resigning from this post and will not seek to prevent immediate elections.

House Eekin:

While we agree that Leaders well versed in the art of war should be in positions that require such knowledge, the Office of Regent is not one of them. That Office is a bureaucratic and administrative office designed to manage the Imperial resources and supply said resources to the Commanders and keep the planets in line and producing so the Empire can provide the resources for war so the Commanders can do their jobs.

A man such as myself, cannot adequately manage the office of Regent as I lack the necessary skills to manage the resources required to manage the Empire or really keep the Empire united as it requires a high level of diplomacy and finesse that I lack, but I do have the necessary skills to manage a fleet and allocate the resources granted to the Fleet to wage war free from the distraction of the Civilian office of Regent.

We push for immediate elections if Archbishop Tarsenusis still desires to step down.

Vanari Thanks Eekin for explaining this. I suggest that we hold another election. Whether we accept Ludenard Akatas to continue to be Regent after this temporary appointment during Tarsenusis's Sickness. I do not presume if he has any administrative skills, but being appointed to the THRONE only for the reason for ability to wage war goes against the vein of the Charter.

You really are extremely ignorant of the severity of the situation Terrance (EDIT: 's character.)

It is Obvious that the Symbiots are pressing against our forces in ever more strength. We need to stand united, not bicker over something as trivial as a change in position.

OOC: I assume that is OOC this is my OOC. I am playing the way I wanted to and what my character would do. Besides, I have paid every single fund for the Garrison and Fleet from the Council of Minors. In addition, I am paying for the Arrakis Defense Fund soon, as well as offering designs for such and working hard at that. You think I am ignorant? I know that our situation is getting messed up every year, and stuff keeps hitting the fan, but I also know that we each choose how to ride this out. I picked my position and I am sticking to it, and I will continue funding stuff and standing for what I believe in: The Regent can send his forces to help, but overall... he IS THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE IMPERIUM< NOT ITS WARRIOR. thank you.

It is Obvious that the Symbiots are pressing against our forces in ever more strength. We need to stand united, not bicker over something as trivial as a change in position.

Which is why Akatas needs to present his strategy so we can see it to make sure it is the best one (and we can approve of that by voting for him), and, for that matter, to see if we can help improve it.

Which is why Akatas needs to present his strategy so we can see it to make sure it is the best one (and we can approve of that by voting for him), and, for that matter, to see if we can help improve it.

Of course. I was merely saying that we can't really afford to the politiking that always happens.

Lets all wait until the Akatas gives his formal statement.

OOC: Thank you, Terrance :)

House Texier believes that this transfer of power is unconstitutional. How would we have liked it if Regent Kawalen had nominated a successor at will and ignored due process?

You are not comparing Archibald Tarsenius to Regent Kawalen, are you, good sir?

And then may I inquire as to what constitution you are speaking of? We do not have that archaic Republican concept that you call "constitution." If you are citing the Imperial Charter, which our late Emperor created, and the program within the sceptres, which the late emperor also created, you would notice that the scepter have, indeed, accepted me as the Regent.

Ergo, I have not broken any laws by becoming the Regent in this method.

House Texier calls on Akatas to step down and call elections as soon as possible so he can be elected by the nobles if he truly is the best Regent (and if he doesn't have the confidence of the Nobles, why should he be in office?), and so that he can actually present his and House Hyppean's plans for the war to the Nobles so we can assess their conduct of it and vote accordingly.

House Texier does not have confidence in the current military command and does not believe it is legitimate and so will not be subsidising it, as we have been up to now, until a legitimate military command is imposed.

We call on Akatas, again, to call elections, as, if he truly is the best prospective Regent, he can easily prove it by showing us his plans, defending them, and convincing the Empire that his course is sound. If he attempts to rule without legitimate election rather than by proving that he can run the Empire well (and if he did that he would surely be elected) we can only expect that his Regency would have less legitimacy and stability, whereas if he holds elections, he will, on the basis of his reputation, and on the basis of the sound strategy he will have proposed, be the best-recognised and best-chosen Regent we will ever have had, as well as being placed in office for the full term of a Regent.

While the legality of the matter has been established, I will admit that there is some truth to your statement. Thusly, I will reveal my plan for the future era,

As the former Regent Archibald Tarsenius have suggested, the situation that we face now in Stigmata is grave. The jump gate over Stigmata have connected to yet another symbiot-infested planet, through which never-before seen space forms emerged to attack our vessels. But these do not fully explain the gravity of the situation that we see now in Stigmata. Looking back through the records of our past 5 years, I have managed to identify the reasons for these failures: lack of coordination between Fleet and Garrison Commanders and lack of newly developed technologies for the Imperium.

Let us begin with the lack of coordination between the Fleet and the Garrison. The first years of Regent Kawallen’s office, if I may dare say so, was a success for the Imperium’s efforts on Stigmata. We have managed to repel the greatest Symbiot invasion that we had ever seen up to date, and managed to conduct a great counter attack that easily destroyed Hive Nysrough. The attack on Hive Nysrough, meanwhile, was a joint attack by the Fleet and the Garrison.

But once Archibald Tarsenius was elected into office, problems began to emerge in the battles against the Symbiots. The Garrison forces, now led by my own Dante Labis, lost a great battle against Hive Raum. While Dante Labis made a critical strategic error of employing unshielded infantry in irradiated environment, the Fleet can also be blamed for not providing aerial support that the Garrison requested multiple times in the Imperial Cabinet. What use is appointing two excellent commanders to the Garrison and the Fleet if they do not synch well? Thusly, I have decided to have different criteria by which to determine who will have the position in the Imperial Cabinet. Even two average commanders can make a large dent on the Symbiots if they work together with each other.

It was for this reason that I have decided to relieve both Dante Labis and Sir Eekin from their post within the Imperium. Dante Labis had to go because I have decided to take the position of the Regent. Sir Eekin had to go because, time and time again, he had proven that he was unable to work with another commander in the stage against Symbiots.

Sir Eekin had told the Cabinet recently that he was not an administrator, but a soldier, and that Archibald Tarsenius would have to hire another commander if he sought to have constant updates. This kind of behavior, I believed, was inappropriate to that of a commander of the Imperial Forces. As Regent, one has the right and duty to listen to the strategic plans being drafted by the Imperial Commanders. And all Imperial Commanders must be able to devise a quick answer to the Regent’s questions regarding the commander’s methods. Failure to do so indicated that the battles against the Symbiots were not on top of his mind. It does not have to be perfect. It can have so many flaws that it would make me weep tears of sorrow. But at the very least by saying those plans early to the Imperial Cabinet, the Imperial Commanders in charge would be able to discuss said plans be able to conduct joint assaults against the Symbiote fiends. All under the watchful eyes of the Regent, of course.

Sir Hellwind declared that the Regent was not a warrior, but an administrator. But this statement is wrong. The regent must both be an administrator and a soldier. The seat of Regency comes with a great burden of being the defender of humanity, not its ruler as everyone seems to perceive. This great burden, the Regent shares with his three trusted commanders, one of the Fleet, one of the Garrison, and one of the Eye. But ultimately the Regent is the one responsible for all these tasks. He must thus be a warrior, for he must understand the dangers that threaten the Imperium and be able to advise the commanders upon the threat.

Thusly, I was left wondering who would be the one best suited for the command of the Fleet and the Garrison. Tenith Erona was an obvious choice for the Garrison Command. House Hyppean, no matter what others may think, is the one who most obviously embodies the spirit of the Garrison. The strategies that she discusses with me are sound, and she is even able to take her own initiatives and approach me with her plans for the future of Garrison. But then who would lead the Fleet?

Truth be told, I have not been able to find an agreeable commander for the position of the Fleet Commander. However, I have managed to produce a list of potential candidates.
-Any Noble of the Holy Gate house with a scepter
-Any Noble of the Klorin house with a scepter
-Jyut Texier of the Texier House.
-Rodwen Thana of the Thana House
-Mortimer Tsedeq of the Tsedeq House.
If any one of these people wishes to take on the mantle of the Fleet Command, they should approach me. Otherwise, I will appoint one of you to the task.

Secondly, there is the matter of the stagnation of technologies used to fight the Symbiots. Symbiots, meanwhile, have constantly been changing and mutating. Every year, we encounter new surprises. Hive of Caym, for instance, have just developed a spaceflight capable form that threatened our ships. On the other side of the planet of Stigmata, the Symbiotes are rapidly constructing a space-form that is able to launch solid iron slugs at astounding speeds through the use of electromagnetism which, by my calculations, would be able to nearly singlehandedly destroy the entire Imperial Fleet stationed in Stigmata. Yet what new tools have the Garrison and the Fleet developed to combat these foes? There was only one. Last year, by Dante Labis’s initiatives and the expertise of the SoE, the Garrison developed a highly-efficient aerial combat vehicle. In addition, if I become your regent, I will push forwards with my own expertise in the matter to assist the Imperial Researchers on the construction of a new spaceship that will be a counter to the one which the Symbiotes are developing as of this moment. This ship also be able to fire a solid metal-tungstan slug at an unbelievable velocity, and will outperform nearly any vessel in existence, whether they be Symbiot or human made. Yes, even the Republic’s vessels will pale in comparison to this weapon.

This, however, will not mean that I will abandon my administrative duties in pursuit of science. I will repair the damages that Symbiot had done to the cities of Molyvet and Wendigo, bringing back a sense of normalcy to that region. I will also repair the damages that the Demon’s Cough had done to Errovus Secundus, and I shall make the capital of the Imperium truly shine. These tasks I shall accomplish with the assistance of both the Guild and the Church.

These are all the things that I promise you with: an upturn in the war against the Symbiotes and a smile on every faces that have been affected by the horrors that threaten our interstellar community. But if you still want your elections, than you shall have them. The Final Deadline for votes to determine whether or not this Imperium requires an election will be in 48 hours (OOC: That’s in REAL TIME, if that is alright with you, Immaculate). Every day that we waste, pondering who will be elected into office is another day wasted which could have better been used discussing plans against the Symbiots.

Thank you and have a nice day.

-Ludenard Akatas.

-Any Noble of the Klorin house with a scepter


We thank the Honor given to us by being considered as commander of The Imperial fleet. Lady Embra, Matriarch of House Klorin, is the Scepter holder we feel is competent in matters of space combat, having formerly held the Position of Fleet Commander. While Lady Embra would much rather be improving the domains of house Klorin on Incellia, which is in dire need of Infrastructural improvement, as well as a firm hand, she will, if there is no better person, accept the role. While this will be with reluctance, we understand that the needs of the Imperium come before that of the house.

On the other side of the planet of Stigmata, the Symbiotes are rapidly constructing a space-form that is able to launch solid iron slugs at astounding speeds through the use of electromagnetism which, by my calculations, would be able to nearly singlehandedly destroy the entire Imperial Fleet stationed in Stigmata.

How do you know this?

However, I have managed to produce a list of potential candidates.
-Any Noble of the Holy Gate house with a scepter
-Any Noble of the Klorin house with a scepter
-Jyut Texier of the Texier House.
-Rodwen Thana of the Thana House
-Mortimer Tsedeq of the Tsedeq House.
If any one of these people wishes to take on the mantle of the Fleet Command, they should approach me. Otherwise, I will appoint one of you to the task.

I am always willing to serve if wanted.

What you haven't told us is your main strategy: how, on a day-to-day basis, are we going to go about defeating the Symbiots, as opposed to the grand strategy? Do you intend to attack more hives individually? If so, by what means? How do you intend to improve our capacity to defend our fortress against Symbiots?

The Final Deadline for votes for the new Regent of the Imperium will be in 48 hours

I strongly object. I am English and about to go to sleep and you put me at a severe political disadvantage here to any and all Americans. Besides, this is highly OOC: not everyone can get online to vote in 48 hours, let alone put together a manifesto, whereas, IC, anyone could do so and would immediately start frantic sceptre-communications for the next few hours until we'd all worked it out. Could you please rescind this?

Honestly, though the RKV was built as a tool which the late Regent could use to siphon Regency money, House Klorin would like to remind the Imperium that one was built and delivered, and that it COULD be used to deliver a crippling blow to the Symbiots on stigmata.

This is not an election, it is a vote on whether or not the scepter holders will agree to the appointment of Ludenard Akatas as Regent. For if you are calling for an election then you cannot limit the time in which it takes (OOC: meaning don't give us such a short time period)

That being said both the General and I do not object to simply holding a vote to confirm the appointment. However, should your appointment be revoked then election will have to be held. This seems like an unneccessary step, thus I would like it better if you made this a true election, than a simple confirmation hearing of sorts. If you do not agree to this then, well I don't really care because this is just a technical issue and your appointment will probably be confirmed anyway.

As to the choice of Fleet commanders we see many grave and frankly unacceptable candidates.

1. House Klorin is completely unacceptable. My people shall never trust them again and though we do not wish their utter annihilation anymore it is disgusting to us that they would be trusted with such a responsibility again.

2. Holy Gate are a house of monks. Let them stay and pray for our soldiers, not lead them. That is the work of warriors, not religous men.

3. House Tsedeq has proven to be a treacherous house. They have stolen a scepter and hold it hostage. They, in our minds, cannot be trusted with such a task. Nor do they have the military experience required.

As for House Texier and House Thana we would not object to either of their appointments.

1. I know little of House Thana and thus will not speak ill of them.

2. House Texier has proven themselves to be a shining beacon in the darkness. They have experience in these matters and I believe they would make a perfect Fleet commander. They are a trust worthy people, honorable and kind. If I were to choose I would choose them over all others for this great burden.

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

How do you know this?

OOC: It's in the update. As for the railgun-toting Symbiot theory, I asked Immaculate. So let's just say that you can take it as a word of God.



What you haven't told us is your main strategy: how, on a day-to-day basis, are we going to go about defeating the Symbiots, as opposed to the grand strategy? Do you intend to attack more hives individually? If so, by what means? How do you intend to improve our capacity to defend our fortress against Symbiots?

Great question, one which I can also quickly offer an answer to. I have many plans in my sleeve to use against the Symbiots. First plan is this: Launch the RKV against the planet of Stigmata. After two year's time, we will receive confirmation on whether or not the device will be able to strike Stigmata. At that moment in time, when we are absolutely sure that the RKV will strike Stigmata, we will begin the evacuation Garrison forces on Stigmata. Hubbard's jumpgate is in space, so the land forms will not be able to cross the jumpgate even if it is activated, and another fleet stationed at the Hubbard side of the jumpgate can counter even the worst case scenario.

The Space Fleet in orbit above Stigmata will cover the RKV's arrival and also block any attempts by Symbiote Space form to try to cross over the Jumpgate.

In the period of two years before we get confirmation, Garrison and the Fleet will carry on their duties normally. What do I mean by normally? That is a loaded question if I had ever seen one. Every Symbiot hive is different, a tactic used against one will not work again. In addition, the Hive Mind is a highly intelligent creature. Thusly, one tactic or strategy used against a single hive will not work again on other hives.

Grand Strategy, however, calls for destruction of hives one by one, the strategy of which will depend on the target. First high-value target, however, seems to be Hive Caym due to their recently developed space-flight form.

House Holy Gate is not at this time willing to take the Office of the Imperial Fleet.

This is not an election, it is a vote on whether or not the scepter holders will agree to the appointment of Ludenard Akatas as Regent. For if you are calling for an election then you cannot limit the time in which it takes (OOC: meaning don't give us such a short time period)

That being said both the General and I do not object to simply holding a vote to confirm the appointment. However, should your appointment be revoked then election will have to be held. This seems like an unneccessary step, thus I would like it better if you made this a true election, than a simple confirmation hearing of sorts. If you do not agree to this then, well I don't really care because this is just a technical issue and your appointment will probably be confirmed anyway.

As to the choice of Fleet commanders we see many grave and frankly unacceptable candidates.

1. House Klorin is completely unacceptable. My people shall never trust them again and though we do not wish their utter annihilation anymore it is disgusting to us that they would be trusted with such a responsibility again.

2. Holy Gate are a house of monks. Let them stay and pray for our soldiers, not lead them. That is the work of warriors, not religous men.

3. House Tsedeq has proven to be a treacherous house. They have stolen a scepter and hold it hostage. They, in our minds, cannot be trusted with such a task. Nor do they have the military experience required.

As for House Texier and House Thana we would not object to either of their appointments.

1. I know little of House Thana and thus will not speak ill of them.

2. House Texier has proven themselves to be a shining beacon in the darkness. They have experience in these matters and I believe they would make a perfect Fleet commander. They are a trust worthy people, honorable and kind. If I were to choose I would choose them over all others for this great burden.

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

Want to confirm that statement. (Immac, help?)

Anyway, if it is indeed an Election, I wonder if anyother, if at all, will also run.

We thank General Bliel for his warm compliments.

We hesitantly give Akatas our support to act as Regent until the elections in 2308. We have doubts about some parts of your strategy, but at least we now believe that you have a coherent strategy that is at least basically sound and probably better than anything else on offer. If you do want me to serve as Fleet commander, I am perfectly willing to.

We suggest that all the Nobles of the Empire should provide constructive criticism on these military plans if they have any thoughts.

We thank General Bliel for his warm compliments.

We hesitantly give Akatas our support to act as Regent until the elections in 2308. We have doubts about some parts of your strategy, but at least we now believe that you have a coherent strategy that is at least basically sound and probably better than anything else on offer. If you do want me to serve as Fleet commander, I am perfectly willing to.

We suggest that all the Nobles of the Empire should provide constructive criticism on these military plans if they have any thoughts.

Indeed, for that, I plan on reopening the Imperium Cabinet. Everyone will be able to see the discussions that occur in there.

OOC: I personally do not understand why that Social Group was closed anyways.

There should be an Imperial Social Group to facilitate communication. Between Imperials, to be renewed every year or so after we get 4 updates to the next election.

X-Posted. :p

This is not an election, it is a vote on whether or not the scepter holders will agree to the appointment of Ludenard Akatas as Regent.

Yes, this is correct. A simple aye or nay will do. If more nays are received by the scepters than ayes, then a true election will be held.


1. House Klorin is completely unacceptable. My people shall never trust them again and though we do not wish their utter annihilation anymore it is disgusting to us that they would be trusted with such a responsibility again.

2. Holy Gate are a house of monks. Let them stay and pray for our soldiers, not lead them. That is the work of warriors, not religous men.

3. House Tsedeq has proven to be a treacherous house. They have stolen a scepter and hold it hostage. They, in our minds, cannot be trusted with such a task. Nor do they have the military experience required.

As for House Texier and House Thana we would not object to either of their appointments.

1. I know little of House Thana and thus will not speak ill of them.

2. House Texier has proven themselves to be a shining beacon in the darkness. They have experience in these matters and I believe they would make a perfect Fleet commander. They are a trust worthy people, honorable and kind. If I were to choose I would choose them over all others for this great burden.

OOC wise speaking, I am merely listing those who I deem would work the best in the position of the Fleet Commander, ie: people who are active and full of little ideas.

If you do want me to serve as Fleet commander, I am perfectly willing to.

Consider yourself the next Fleet Commander then, Mr. Texier.

OOC wise speaking, I am merely listing those who I deem would work the best in the position of the Fleet Commander, ie: people who are active and full of little ideas.

That's cool dude. I just wanted to outline my reasons for not supporting certain people.

Vanari supports Akatas' openess, ideas and plans. Although much can be improved as in all cases, there is a solid foundation. For now, Phillippe will vote AYE.

Eh, you know what? The Imperial Cabinet simply have too many secret information that certain people OOC: like the Guild may not be happy about. And then there are some other nobilities that I will not mention who will not be too happy about me opening it either.

Instead, I made this cute little chamber which everyone can view. I will start moving non-sensitive information there presently. CLICK HERE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/group.php?groupid=527)

You know what? It's silly to have that social group made into invite only.

I made that group a public group. If you have any grievances that you wish to address against the Imperium, go and make a discussion there.

I still believe the Imperial Cabinet should be made public. Why should its government hide from its people? Such a government is not worthy of the people's support.

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

While I would be inclined to believe that, it's the safety of those people that have given valuable information to the Imperium that I am concerned about.

OOC: It's in the update. As for the railgun-toting Symbiot theory, I asked Immaculate. So let's just say that you can take it as a word of God.

Thats not true.

People ask me questions; i answer them. He drew his own conclusions and they may or may not be accurate. There is no evidence for railgun symbiots beyond what seon may know IC or what is in the update. There is NO OOC reason for believing this.
If you still want your elections, than you shall have them under one condition. The Final Deadline for votes for the new Regent of the Imperium will be in 48 hours (OOC: That’s in REAL TIME, if that is alright with you, Immaculate). Every day that we waste, pondering who will be elected into office is another day wasted which could have better been used discussing plans against the Symbiots.


I also strongly object to a 2 day voting period when there is greater than 2 weeks until first orders are due.

You speak of safety yet I see no danger in transparency. If the Klorin had allowed the Cabinet to be viewed by the public then the plague might have been averted. If the Cabinet had been made public then perhaps near mutiny might have been avoided. I do not say that those not in the Cabinet should be able to participate in the discussion, but we have the right to be able to view the records. Would you hide from us the truth? Is that the kind of regent we are to expect?

Every adminstration before you has proven that secrecy is not the answer. Secrets breed mistrust, and mistrust is the mistress of anger and discontent.

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

You speak of safety yet I see no danger in transparency. If the Klorin had allowed the Cabinet to be viewed by the public then the plague might have been averted. If the Cabinet had been made public then perhaps near mutiny might have been avoided. I do not say that those not in the Cabinet should be able to participate in the discussion, but we have the right to be able to view the records. Would you hide from us the truth? Is that the kind of regent we are to expect?

Every adminstration before you has proven that secrecy is not the answer. Secrets breed mistrust, and mistrust is the mistress of anger and discontent.

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

We ask that The actions of the late Regent not be conflated to the actions of the Entire House Klorin. Dain kawalen has been struck from our House Records, and his existence removed from the Logs of nobility.

Seon asks me to remind you all that voting with scepters can only be done to choose a regent, not to decide if you want to have elections or not.

Which means that you will have to come with your own way of voting. Probably best to just have an open system or choose a third party that you all trust.

House Eekin:

We feel our words have been misunderstood in the Imperial Cabinet, allow me to clarify;

By constant updates, I mean pointless updates about every aspect of the Fleet actions, we still continue to plan to post our strategy for the year and our budget, but we felt that too much meddling in the affairs of the Imperial Fleet would only serve to disrupt communication and the careful planning that goes into protecting Imperial holdings around the Empire... as well as the defense of the Garrison on Stigmata. A good warrior knows that diplomacy and armchair generals do little to help win wars, it rests on the soldiers and sailors of the Fleet and Garrison and how well their commanders from the NCO's up to the Fleet/Division Generals can understand orders. It is our understanding and experience that interference or meddling from the Regent, who may or may not, understand matters of war or truly understand the position these soldiers are in, may cause problems down the chain of command with constant changes to orders or plans, which in the end will simply make the lower regiments and companies to misunderstand their orders or not be clear in the objective. This was the point we were trying to push through.


Also, concerning the Fleet and Garrison "inability" to communicate. We have provided Bomber squadrons for your actions on Stigmata, but the above scenario also came into play, with commanders and the Regent himself desiring updates or changing the plan somewhat.... so when it was all said and done, the bomber squadron apparently misunderstood their orders and stayed with the Fleet thinking that was the plan. We have made every effort to support the Garrison where we could and with whatever resources we happen to have in the area, but unlike the Garrison, the Fleet has numerous jump-gates to protect and monitor, with few able commanders to assume the responsibilities, it was a disaster waiting to happen. Unfortunately due to screw ups in the command structure last year, the scenario we all feared had in fact happened. (I refer to changes in the Imperial Cabinet.) This is the reason Commander Eekin has curtly informed the Imperial Cabinet to leave the Fleet alone until a strategy was formed and finalized before we posted it for all in the Imperial Cabinet to see. At that point there will be no more changes unless Eekin himself determines that a change is necessary, but discussions as usual would be welcome, including criticism.

If the Regent, or the Imperial Cabinet sees fit to fire me for trying to improve the quality of the Fleet and attempt to keep the Fleet as isolated from bureaucratic meddling as possible, then so be it. Eekin will not apologize for trying to help the Empire in its time of need.

On topic of Garrison Commander
I did not expect such honor. Future of Entire Empire on my shoulders. Carrying it, is not a easy task. While I'd personally reject this duty, like Garrik Harnoth has done, due to words that house Texier has said - Empire having more capable leaders, my faith in Pancreator and in the future of The Empire, does not allow me to this. So I stand ready to serve the Needs of the Empire. Because I find that words of Garrik are right... Garrison is The Sword and The Shield of the Empire and the Pancreator. While he is a truly great warrior and fierce in opinions, I am more calm and can handle insults from "pathetic" minor houses better, than he can. But still, Honor is highly important to every Hyppean and I shall not stand any hints of disrespect towards me or my house. In the end, I understand Garrik and am willing to do the same, should those less worthy voice their "opinions" again. Having said all that, I accept Garrison Commander position.

Signed
Tenith Erona,
House of Hyppean

I still believe the Imperial Cabinet should be made public. Why should its government hide from its people? Such a government is not worthy of the people's support.

People's support? Hide from it's People? Public? Last I checked this Empire was still lead by its proper rulers, THE NOBLES, not some peasants. I sense some "republic" influence in this. I hope, it's just a false sense.

Let the Empire to its thing, because it is not wise harm the Empire. And only few idiotic nobles would do it. What use would be knowledge of how things will be done? What use would be arguing over military plans with those who have little knowledge about military?

Signed,
Garrik Harnoth of the Hyppean House

but unlike the Garrison, the Fleet has numerous jump-gates to protect and monitor, with few able commanders to assume the responsibilities, it was a disaster waiting to happen.

Garrison has no more commanders than the Fleet Does, yet it has survived. Garrison requires only a few things from the Fleet.

One: Fleet has soldiers on Stigimata. Soldiers without whom defense of Stigimata base would have been disastrous. /You succeeded that
Two: Fleet has capacity to transport troops and secure transport supplies from Hubbard and to Hubbard. /You kind of Succeeded kind of failed that, while Dante Labis had to clear out fuel tanks and lead the fleet for a year.
Three: Fleet has capacity to bomb Symbiot hives. Bombardment HAS TO be done together with ground attack, so it could be effective. /When I was commander, I asked The Fleet to bomb Hive Raum. There was no bombardment. None. Blaming "military structure" and "misunderstanding orders" is idiotic.
Four: Fleet has to tackle and destroy any symbiot attempts to launch a fleet or invasion through space (or spacegate). /you kind a did it, if we ignore Hubbard and E2 Fuel Issue. And construction of new symbiot fleet and a cannon.

Signed,
Garrik Harnoth,
House of Hyppean

To House Hyppean
From Jyut Texier

Seeing as I have just been made Fleet Commander, and as we need to cooperate, could we possibly agree to disagree, and agree to stop squabbling or feuding, for the sake of the Empire's unity?

We formally offer you our friendship, with no honour lost or concessions made by either of our houses. Do you accept it?

Aslong as a minor house does not think it can be equal to prestige and strength of a major house, we can work together.

And as long as we aren't teased or bullied, we can work together too. Your major position can be used for the sake of greater magnamity towards your supposed inferiors as well as for the sake of bullying them.

So, I ask you again, can we let our relative prestiges and strengths drop as a matter for discussion when we are acting as Imperial officers?

I have more soldier in me than your entire house Hyppean. Kilgore lives and breathes struggle, we are not coddled and pampered from birth like the little babies of Hyppean. If you cannot get over your own vanity and pride in order to defend the Empire then you are about as worthy to command the Garrison as a monkey.

Would you like a banana?

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

Ahem. That wasn't the idea. House Texier, in the spirit of reconciliation, does not endorse Bliel's taunting. :p

House Kilgore, in the spirit of awesomeness, endorses Bliel's taunting.

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

I have more soldier in me than your entire house Hyppean. Kilgore lives and breathes struggle, we are not coddled and pampered from birth like the little babies of Hyppean. If you cannot get over your own vanity and pride in order to defend the Empire then you are about as worthy to command the Garrison as a monkey.

Would you like a banana?

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

It is difficult to understand you from all the spit that's coming from your mouth and it's disturbing soundwaves that probably are meant to be "words", but now they are just noise. A rather wet noise, but still a noise.

If I understood you correctly, You meant to say that "Kilgore lives and breaths struggle", because having "fun" with goats is well... difficult and, like I've heard, quite struggling and straining... House of Hyppean has more pride and power than your pathetic minor house could ever have, so keep your trap shut, it's not a rainy season yet and we don't need extra water coming from it. True, our babies get fresh diapers after every time they "do" their stuff, which obviously is "pampering" in your opinion and they even get regular feeding, but At least we don't let run naked among goats, zoophiles and other savages, who don't know which way they should hold a machine gun.

Your house has more warriors in it than ours? Allow me to laugh. Well, sorry, I can't cuz that is so pathetic, that it is not even funny... You can't even control your "conquered" fiefdoms on Arrakis - allowing another bunch of rebels that pretend to be (pathetic) minor house take control over "your" fiefdom?

I was wondering, is banana such a rarity to your "kind", that your nobles think highly of such pathetic food item? Like honestly, do your nobles eat such a lowly mid-class food? Or maybe you even drink raw milk? Thank you, but I'll pass your nice and quite "pleasant" offer. Not only because bananas are cheap around here, but I'm slightly worried about your personal hygiene hygiene of such fruit, when it's offered to me by a such a unwashed creature. Sorry, I meant to say "Plebian Noble".

You just keep doing your goat-thingy and leave those who actually deal with world-class issues alone. Or you may discover our army on your footstep. And this is not a warning that one "minor" house should take careless.

Signed,
Yannis Arenoth,
House of Hyppean

(OOC: Walls of text!!)

Let me just see...

House Bossheaim approves of the instatement of Ludenard Akatas as Regent.

We would support Fleet commanders from either House Tsedeq or House Texier (although this issue seems to have been resolved).

House Remillard supports Akatas as Reagent.

We feel Texier would be sufficient for the role of Fleet Commander, but must strongly protest the proposition to allow Tsedeq into the position.

People are far less likely to stop incidents - in my personal experience - if they feel they can gain from them.

Which, as we have seen in this Klorin-Tsedeq incident, Sir Mortimer surely does.

- Remi

Jyut Texier would like to point out that he has just taken office as Fleet Commander and is already on board the newly-constructed Cruiser on the way to Stigmata!

@Al Gore and Yannis

Stop it right now or I will appoint both of you to the prestigious position of the Imperial Jester.

House Quin would also like to affirm its support of Ludenard Akatas's lawful in-statement as Regent.

I would be honored to dawn the jingly crown of laughter were I not other wise preoccupied.

You know, being a playa and all.

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

I do not belive I am the best choice for the Imperial Garrison, and that there are better options than myself.
-Rodwen Thana, House of Thana

Hi, I've got computer problems, so, If I'm slow with Diplo and the like, that's why.

House Sanctious'Als supports Akatas as Regent. We also are extremely pleased to see House Hyppean back in charge of the garrison.

Also, we would like to remind the Imperium of the Maggicks Academy that has recently been completed in our lands. We are happy to open our doors to aid the Imperium in the fight against evil.

Also, we would like to remind the Imperium of the Maggicks Academy that has recently been completed in our lands. We are happy to open our doors to aid the Imperium in the fight against evil.

We have just brought this before the Cabinet. The Fleet sincerely thanks you.

House Sanctious'Als supports Akatas as Regent. We also are extremely pleased to see House Hyppean back in charge of the garrison.

Also, we would like to remind the Imperium of the Maggicks Academy that has recently been completed in our lands. We are happy to open our doors to aid the Imperium in the fight against evil.

House of Hyppean is thankful for trust that our close friend gives us. May Pancreator himself shield you from all evil, as will Garrison shield you from Symbiots.

Signed,
Garrik Harnoth,
House of Hyppean
-------------------------------------------
Imperial Garrison is interested in future usage of the Academy and its resources to design a Magic Capable units. But currently, we have limited resources and designs of new unit (a more "modern" infantry) in place. We would be thankful, If House of Sanctus'Als would allow training our magic users and offer their designing advice in the future, but currently we have no free resources to spare or to effectively teach how to use magic. We greatly Appriciate your offer. I can not speak on behalf of Imperial Fleet, Regency or The Eye, as they may have more direct interest and free resources to train in the Academy.

Signed,
Tenith Erona,
House of Hyppean,
Garrison Commander

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6937/announcmentk.png

To: The Empire

House of 'Dessert Scythes' on Arrakis, has sworn its loyalty to House of Hyppean

House of Dessert Scythe has decided to pledge their Allegiance to House Hyppean. This means that from now on, lands that previously belonged under leadership of "House Dessert Scythe", including the lands taken from them by force or lands they have claims for, belong now to House of Hyppean.

Any invasion, annexions, murders, sabotages, thefts and whatever other misc deeds, committed in these lands or against our serfs, vassals and nobles, are now considered as a direct attack against House of Hyppean and will be dealt Accordingly.
Signed,
Tenith Erona, Garrik Harnoth, Jannis Arenoth and leader of Erona Family and Hyppean Council.

(OOC: What it means, is that ex-Klorin fiefdom on Arrakis now belongs to House Hyppean.)

To: House of Dessert Scythe
We welcome our Brother from Dessert Scythe among Council of Hyppean. Same laws apply to them as they apply to us. Their powerful families, who pass the requirements of wealth and power that apply to all of us, have same right to be part of the Hyppean Council like any Hyppean family line.

Signed,
Tenith Erona, Garrik Harnoth, Jannis Arenoth and leader of Erona Family and Hyppean Council.

To: House of Killgore
We are strongly recommending you to withdraw your troops from our territory, as you have not negotiated a safe passage treaty with us. However, despite of this and few occasional "shootouts" that happened between your "military" forces and Hyppean Nobles, who panicked, we are a kind house. Yes, a Kind house - that means that, we are willing to provide safe passage out from our borders and cover costs (worth of 5MF), that your "military training that involves marching in to random territory and shooting at random targets" may have caused you. We hope this will not be much of a problem.

If you do not withdraw your troops, we'll do it for you. With missiles, bullets and machine guns. We have ancient right to protect our territory, our allies and our vassals and we will use this right. We will also use all our influence among guilds, traders, minor and major houses aswell as pious factions, to power to make your life as miserable as possible.

EDIT: We would also remind you, as Arrakis Defense pact is not "official" (it's not on first page), then defense pact members do not have to come to your aid. Technically you also invaded my lands. I offered a peaceful solution.

We hope, that we can come to an agreement.

Signed,
Garrik Harnoth,
Commander of Hyppean Military

OOC: Do the scythes come with whipped cream? :p

OOC: Do the scythes come with whipped cream? :p

OOC: Ask from Immac, he named them like that in the update :D Better than Lamia made into Lama =)

To House Hyppean

The Dessert Sycthe are a terrorist group who have sought to slaughter and rebel from their rightful lords of the House of Kilgore. By accepting them into your fief you are effectively declaring war on our house. Either remove your forces from our land and renounce all claims land legally obtained by House Kilgore, or you will have war.

In essense, Cool story bra, but I'm going to murder you.

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

@Hyppean,

Weren't you referring to these so-called ''powerful'' ''brothers'' of yours as a bunch of pathetic rebels pretending to be a noble House not that long ago? I'm confused.

We'd like to remind House Kilgore at this point that, while they may indeed have the edge in terms of equipment, when facing a Major House they will be hopelessly outnumbered and outproduced.

If they continue on such a rash course of action, we fear what may happen to them.

- Remi

OOC @Eko - No, I think that was Winter Peaks, unless i'm mistaken..

...
The other Klorin rebels. (poor tom)

To House Hyppean

The Dessert Sycthe are a terrorist group who have sought to slaughter and rebel from their rightful lords of the House of Kilgore. By accepting them into your fief you are effectively declaring war on our house. Either remove your forces from our land and renounce all claims land legally obtained by House Kilgore, or you will have war.

In essense, Cool story bra, but I'm going to murder you.

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

A story of How Little Brother become Freed Brother, become friend with True Friend and how Smelly man In rags has no right over Freed brothers life.

Let me tell you a better story. Something more suitable for your age. Big brother (Klorin) decided to sell little brother (Dessert Scythes) to a smelly man in rags(Kilgore). Little brother did not like this deal, because little brother(Dessert Scythes) and big brother(kilgore) were in a vassal relationship and one can not sell something, that he does not own, unless a vassal agrees. So Little brother (Dessert Scythes) used their rights and declared themselves free of big brother(Klorin). Whilst still blood related to big Borther (klorin), it is vassals right to declare themselves free from their master.

Then Smelly man in rags (Kilgore) attacked Little Brother(Dessert Scythes). And more free brothers joined with Free Brother(Dessert Scythes), not accepting leadership of Smelly Man in Rags, as they were not vassals to Big Brother anymore, rather free from their masters, because of thier unloyal behavior. And then Smelly man in rags (kilgore) claimed his right over these Free Brothers (Dessert Scythes). But these were free brothers(Dessert Scythes), not little brothers (klorin fiefdom). Who had little connection to Big brother (Klorin) and whom over he had no right.

So Free Brothers (Dessert Scythes) swore loyalty to A True Friend (Hyppeans). True, After Smelly man in rags (Kilgore) had attacked Free Brothers(Dessert Scythes). But Smelly man in rags (kilgore) had attacked Free Brothers(Dessert Scythes), not little brother (Klorin Fiefdom). So A True friend (Hyppeans) ride to rescue.

@Hyppean,

Weren't you referring to these so-called ''powerful'' ''brothers'' of yours as a bunch of pathetic rebels pretending to be a noble House not that long ago? I'm confused.

A translation issue probably. We are unsure what was the real issue, but those writers who caused this "misunderstanding" shall be dealt with. We apologize for any inconvenience this error has caused.

To House Hyppean and House Killgore
cc: 'House' Desert Scythe
re: Crisis of Dessert
From: House Vanari Emergency Dispatch Agency


You must be able to see each other clearly, not through the veil of fury. Killgore has paid good money to Klorin and is promised an Arrakis Fief. Unfortunately, that is no what they got. They got instead a war zone. Then, the nobles who are sold by Klorin to Killgore joined offered to join Hyppean instead, who accepted.
(It seems to our own House that Klorin is inept at managing business transactions of any kind from failure, and shall exempt ourselves from that chance.)
Killgore, fighting will only return the fertile land back to the desert. I will join you once I am sure all diplomacy is fulfilled.
Hyppean, although you see yourselves as saving their honor, in reality it was Klorin, not Killgore, that has sold their honor. Perhaps you can arrange a sharing agrement with Killgore?
Klorin. :shake: I suggest you repay Killgore for your defective product.

OOC @Eko - No, I think that was Winter Peaks, unless i'm mistaken..

...
The other Klorin rebels. (poor tom)

Hmm possibly. but this seems like double standards regardless..? Since when did the mighty House Hyppean consort with minor nobility? Anyway, from my point of view, the land was sold by Klorin to Kilgore, and these rebels are now illegally occupying it.

...!
:twitch:

:wallbash:

House of Desert Scythes revolted under leadership of Klorin. They have this right, because of vassal order we live in. Vassal swears loyalty to its master and aid in battles and taxes, while master has to protect him/her. Vassal has right to brake this deal, should Master behave unhonorably. In this case Master attempted to sell his vassals against their own will.

Klorin Vassals refused this sale and revolted from their masters, becoming Dessert Scythes instead, and asked to join Hyppean instead. Shortly after that !FREE! House of Dessert Scythes was invaded by Kilgore forces.
Hyppeans Agreed to take !Free! house under their protection. By this defination, Kilgore invaded Dessert Scythes and not "his lands". Whatever they may claim, Klorin can not sell lands which they do not own. March to lands which are not owned by invader, is an invasion.

How could merchant sell a good that is not "theirs" to sell ? How could someone sell a good that goes bad before new owner can claim it?

Therefore Klorin should then return their ill-gained money for selling something they don't have back to Killgore, who should then accept this repayment and go home.

If only people are reasonable.

House of Hyppean did offer compensation to House of Killgore. Quite a bit More than original 5MF. Which they refused.

We thank Vanari/terrance for understanding the Issue.

it is vassals right to declare themselves free from their master.

OOC: From my understanding of the feudal system, a vassal doesn't own anything. He owes his possessions to his liege lord, and keeps them because he swears loyalty. Therefore, he has absolutely no right to declare himself free of his master. This is just totally opposite the feudal system.
I'd really like to know what custom law (Immac) says about this. The notion of freedom for vassals seems totally alien to me. They simply have no rights, except those given to them by their masters, and definitely not the right ot revolt/rebel/declare independance.

the land was sold by Klorin to Kilgore, and these rebels are now illegally occupying it.
IC: I told you Klorin didn't hold their word and didn't execute their contracts. They jsut cannot be trusted anymore.

OOC: I have the same opinion as LDi regarding the feudal system.

IC: I told you Klorin didn't hold their word and didn't execute their contracts. They jsut cannot be trusted anymore.

Then don't do business with them.

That's the simple answer.

If you fail to see it, then dont expect extortionate fees as compensation - and certainly not a sceptre.

- Remi

A story of How Little Brother become Freed Brother, become friend with True Friend and how Smelly man In rags has no right over Freed brothers life.

Let me tell you a better story. Something more suitable for your age. Big brother (Klorin) decided to sell little brother (Dessert Scythes) to a smelly man in rags(Kilgore). Little brother did not like this deal, because little brother(Dessert Scythes) and big brother(kilgore) were in a vassal relationship and one can not sell something, that he does not own, unless a vassal agrees. So Little brother (Dessert Scythes) used their rights and declared themselves free of big brother(Klorin). Whilst still blood related to big Borther (klorin), it is vassals right to declare themselves free from their master.

Then Smelly man in rags (Kilgore) attacked Little Brother(Dessert Scythes). And more free brothers joined with Free Brother(Dessert Scythes), not accepting leadership of Smelly Man in Rags, as they were not vassals to Big Brother anymore, rather free from their masters, because of thier unloyal behavior. And then Smelly man in rags (kilgore) claimed his right over these Free Brothers (Dessert Scythes). But these were free brothers(Dessert Scythes), not little brothers (klorin fiefdom). Who had little connection to Big brother (Klorin) and whom over he had no right.

So Free Brothers (Dessert Scythes) swore loyalty to A True Friend (Hyppeans). True, After Smelly man in rags (Kilgore) had attacked Free Brothers(Dessert Scythes). But Smelly man in rags (kilgore) had attacked Free Brothers(Dessert Scythes), not little brother (Klorin Fiefdom). So A True friend (Hyppeans) ride to rescue.
Once upon a time, Big Brother got into trouble and can't pay the doctor (cathedral). So he sold the lands far away where his little brothers live to another man, a fighting man. The Little Brothers don't have any claim for the land themselves, they are allowed to use it in exchange for supporting their Big Brother. However, they are mostly mad at Big Brother didn't invite them to return to his castle so that they can be given different lands. So they decided to stay put and break free. They stole Big Brothers land that was sold to Fighting Man, and claimed themselves lords of their own realm.

Fighting man is mad that his land is full of enemies. He ran in to fight the free brothers, for in his mind, he had paid for it with sacks upon sacks of precious gold to the Big Brother. None of the other nobles dared to speak, for they know that the Free Brothers will pay the price of disloyalty and die.

Suddenly, a man on Horseback arrived. Horseman was mobbed by the free brothers, asking for security in exchange for the land they never owned. Horseman agreed and went to help the free brothers to keep the land they think they own, but that Big Brother owned and rented to them.

So now Fighting Man and Horseman are at arms, and are both asking for help. What will happen next?

There is no legal grey area.

House Klorin owns the lands on Arrakis. The nobles who currently call themselves House Dessert Scythe (though no such organization has ever existed before) were put in charge of the fiefs on Arrakis by House Klorin. These nobles do not own the land, nor do they have any legal right to it. They simply hold it for their liege lords of Klorin.

House Klorin, being the rightful owners of both the land and serfs that constitute the fiefs, agree to the sale of the land to House Kilgore. House Kilgore agrees, and the treaty is signed and transaction is made.

House Kilgore moves to forces into their newly aqcuired fief and begin appointing governorship.

These rebel nobles, who were given the opportunity to return to areas under the control of House Klorin choose not to do so.

These rebels then began arming themselves and the serfs, yes serfs to fight against the rightful owner of the fief, House Kilgore.

House Hyppean, with no warning, and opening no dialogue with House Kilgore, annexes the rebelling areas of House Kilgore's fief and then demands that House Kilgore leave its own fief. They offer no negotiation.

House Kilgore presents a solution.

House Hyppean rejects it.



This is the current situation. There is no grey area. House Kilgore owns the fiefs and does not see why it should negotiate anything. We have done no harm to House Hyppean nor did we intend to do so.

If House Hyppean wishes to take the side of rebels and fallen nobles who would arm peasants to rise up against their rightful lord then they set a dangerous precedent, for themselves and for us all.

We will NOT share what we have bought for there is no reason to share. If House Hyppean wishes to spout blatant lies against us then that is their business, however if they wish to invade our lands then we have no other recourse but war.

General Iferius Bliel, Lord of House Kilgore

OOC: I have the same opinion as LDi regarding the feudal system.

As do I.

House Texier hopes that the matter of Arrakis can be resolved in an equitable fashion even if a peaceful resolution is impossible.

We reckon House Xicier's opinion is of importance in this matter, and we suggest that you should wait for their perspective (OOC: Vert has been inactive for a few days).

OOC: My view of vassal system.

A vassal is someone weak alone but skilled in arts of war. Who , for an example, joins with someone stronger to form an alliance of sorts. Usually joining is done for a piece of land. What means that knight does not "rent" this piece of land but owns it according to deal.

Deal

Vassal is honor tied to: Honor calls of war, masters request, pay taxes for protection, not to do any foreign politics. Vassal owns land he has aslong as he has not broken his honor (any previously mentioned things)
Master is honor tied to: Protect vassal and his serfdom in both military and political way.

If vassal dishonors master, master has right to take back vassals land.
If Master dishonors vassal, vassal has right to join with another kingdom or declare freedom.

In exchange of ownership of land, Vassal gives up his right to do foreign politics or deal with higher matters as well as invading someone. Vassal also has to protect its Master and pay taxes/fees to him/her regularly. If they do not honor this deal, vassals land may be removed by king (IF VASSAL DOES NOT ANSWER CALL TO ARMS for an example). Otherwise king has no right to move vassals around or sell them, as lands that vassals control belong to vassals (in exchange of protection that king offeres).

Master will swear to protect vassal in both political as well as militaristic matters. A vassal is sworn to be vassal until his master is (un)honorable, for an example frees him from his duty or, in this case, attempts to sell him against his will. If this happens vassal can be consider to be released from its deal of vassalage. Any "Rents" vassal payed for his lands, is payment for being under protection of "Master". Any land master offered to vassal belongs to him aslong as vassal does not unhonor the deal - deals with foreign politics or refuses to pay taxes. In this case vassals payed taxes and did what master asked of them. Then master did something that vassals could not accept. So they refused their vassalships and become free from their lord. Lord had given them their lands. And deal they made, vassalisation means that if master betrays a vassal, vassal still has right to its land and does not have to honor vassalisation any more.

Master does not own right to sell nobles/vassal under his command. Especially when one is against this command. This is different with peasants, who are part of land, and who may be bought or sold together with land they are live on. (mainly cuz they don't have any valuable skills to become vassals)

Clearly the consensus on what a vassal is, is basically someone who is appointed as the manager of fief lands by the House Lord. The House Lord can do whatever he wants with the land, and serfs and can, of course, fire the vassal.

Your definition of what a vassal would severly limit the power of the House Lord. Essentially there would be no point to having a vassal. Either the vassal does what his master says or he rebels, and if he rebels the master must kill him.

OOC: From my understanding of the feudal system, a vassal doesn't own anything. He owes his possessions to his liege lord, and keeps them because he swears loyalty. Therefore, he has absolutely no right to declare himself free of his master. This is just totally opposite the feudal system.
I'd really like to know what custom law (Immac) says about this. The notion of freedom for vassals seems totally alien to me. They simply have no rights, except those given to them by their masters, and definitely not the right ot revolt/rebel/declare independance.


OOC: This. ^^ This is why The Query did not oppose the formation of House Illbourne as they were not already sworn to other nobility. This is why we have opposed all these ones who did swear fealty and have since rebelled.


IC:

We stand on the threshold of destruction at the renewed onslaught of the Symbiotes, The Church seems oddly destracted, and the Guilds have been busy yet we stand and bicker over such an ultimately pointless little group of people on Arrakis?

*ahem*

Klorin has tried to transfer fealty allegience of their subjects and have not been able to thus far without revolt. Of course the Kilgore fiefdom also revolted and we oppose their new house as well.

The Query are a very insular and proud nobility so while we do not like the conflict growing on Arrakis we have to side with Kilgore. We would prefer simply to avoid open warfare entirely by either having House Hyppean pay for the portion they are taking control of to Kilgore or by removing themselves from this issue.

I abhor open warfare but I cannot tolerate the wonton destruction of tradition that has been occuring regularly in the Imperium.

Klorin should only have to refund the portion of payment for the portion of provinces not delivered. So if half the province went to Hyppean then they should only return half the payment ... No I will not discuss that right now. It makes no difference if the worthless little bastards die screaming in hellfire. Fine I'll discuss but open conflict is such a waste of resources and really I would much rather finish the Cathedral. What you ...

*ahem*

As I was saying the might of The Query would rather not be wasted in such a pointless struggle. I would propose a simple financial settlement to Kilgore for the rebelling fiefs. I mean really are they worth all that much the blind and deaf who cannot see the truth even when it comes in the dreams to

*ahem*

There you have it Hyppean pay up for the portion you have taken, we will not recognize a House Hot Mess, and Kilgore has control of the portion which did not rebel. If an equitable agreement is proposed and refused well The Query will have to decide what to do then.

Now excuse me the corridors in the sub basement are particularly troublesome to build I need to go and yell at the foreman for making unauthorized changes to the Cathedral plan.

Lord Ichabod, Sterling Clan, The Query

House Hyppean has no legal claim to the land. House Kilgore will not sell anything and will crush this rebellion swiftly and surely. If House Hyppean wishes to put the entire race of humanity on the brink of destruction because of their own greed, hubris and vain pride then so be it but I will not stand by while House Hyppean abuses their power as Garrison commander to threaten all of the Imperium.

I would ask that the Regent remove House Hyppean immediately from their position as Imperial Garrison commander, they clearly do not have the Imperium's best interests in mind. Further more I ask that the Regent stop this farce immediately. House Hyppean has no right to this land and is willing to destroy all of Arrakis to get it. Such is the avarice of the Hyppean's.

General Iferius Bliel, Lord of House Kilgore

House Hyppean has no legal claim to the land. House Kilgore will not sell anything and will crush this rebellion swiftly and surely. If House Hyppean wishes to put the entire race of humanity on the brink of destruction because of their own greed, hubris and vain pride then so be it but I will not stand by while House Hyppean abuses their power as Garrison commander to threaten all of the Imperium.

I would ask that the Regent remove House Hyppean immediately from their position as Imperial Garrison commander, they clearly do not have the Imperium's best interests in mind. Further more I ask that the Regent stop this farce immediately. House Hyppean has no right to this land and is willing to destroy all of Arrakis to get it. Such is the avarice of the Hyppean's.

General Iferius Bliel, Lord of House Kilgore

House of Hyppean has right to protect its vassals. House of Hyppean will protect its vassals, our prestige speaks for itself. And we have legal claim for the land - you invaded a free house, who were betrayed by their master, who did not betray their master first. By that, Dessert Scythes have right to the lands which they own, as their master has betrayed them. They have same right to submit to our leadership making these lands ours. You invaded a free house. They are not free anymore, instead they are our vassals. You have no right to invade a free house. Even if you did, you have no right to continuing invade our vassals. It is not our fault that your armies could not arrive before They declared themselves free from Klorin leadership. (because klorin beterayed them). Klorin has no right to sell nobles to anyone. Especially to someone as unworthy as you.

How would Hyppeans destroy Arrakis, we have no idea, being among the largest houses on Arrakis? We would give up our seat in garrison to defend our House, we believe everyone would do this. And we would still advise garrison with the very best advice we can offer. And there are plenty of generals in the Empire who could lead the Garrison. Have Hyppean not done MORE for the empire than Your house? Then why do you blame us for destroying it? What have you done to aid the empire?

In the view of the Fleet, there are too many sceptre-holders on Arrakis interested in this conflict to debar them all from holding Imperial Office.

This free house business is complete lies. There is no recognized House Desert full of crap you speak of. There never was.

Or maybe there was but it was so long ago they ceased being free? Perhaps they do want to be free from all bonds which is the purpose of death. So they seek death. Well someone will die at the rate this is going. That's not good at all. Maybe it is good, I'm not sure yet.

For Hyppean to stay as garrison commander their commander must refrain from being involved in this conflict. If they use their resources as garrison commander it will be a clear violation of the charter.

Lord Icahbod, Sterling Clan, The Query

To: The Empire

House of 'Dessert Scythes' on Arrakis, has sworn its loyalty to House of Hyppean

House of Dessert Scythe has decided to pledge their Allegiance to House Hyppean. This means that from now on, lands that previously belonged under leadership of "House Dessert Scythe", including the lands taken from them by force or lands they have claims for, belong now to House of Hyppean.

Any invasion, annexions, murders, sabotages, thefts and whatever other misc deeds, committed in these lands or against our serfs, vassals and nobles, are now considered as a direct attack against House of Hyppean and will be dealt Accordingly.
Signed,
Tenith Erona, Garrik Harnoth, Jannis Arenoth and leader of Erona Family and Hyppean Council.[/CENTER]


From Desert Scythes
To Worlds

Agreed enthusiastically by the members of House Desert Scythes. Long live our fuedal lords the Hyppean Royal Family!

From Killgore-loyal noble estates of the former Klorin lands
To Kilgore

Save us from this treachery. Our loyalty is to our masters, to you.

Vassal has right to brake this deal, should Master behave unhonorably.

This may be the opinion of the Hyppean noble family but it would be INCREDIBLY rare amongst other nobles. And treacherous amongst serfs.

OOC: From my understanding of the feudal system, a vassal doesn't own anything. He owes his possessions to his liege lord, and keeps them because he swears loyalty. Therefore, he has absolutely no right to declare himself free of his master. This is just totally opposite the feudal system.
I'd really like to know what custom law (Immac) says about this. The notion of freedom for vassals seems totally alien to me. They simply have no rights, except those given to them by their masters, and definitely not the right ot revolt/rebel/declare independance.


The majority of the nobles of the worlds (and their serfs) believe this. It is the established order.

From General Iferius Bliel, Lord of House Kilgore
To My loyal subjects

I will slaughter them.

We have right for the land that Kilgore did not manage to conquer and lands that highly resist their rule. That is a fact. Because no one has right to sell his own nobles as that renders vassalization useless.

We are ready to renounce claims on land which Kilgore did Conquer. We are willing to pay for any losses that Kilgore forces suffered when in OUR territory.

This is the best offer we will make. Otherwise, we are ready to fight and die fighting. Even If it comes down to fighting entire Arrakis.

To: Desert Scythes
We will protect you.

Right of Conquest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest) would be recognized by most nobles and serfs regardless of the 'deals' and 'trades' made. Remember that this is a world that until player characters entered it, was often governed by violent war and intrigue (the second of which is a tradition that is still very much alive).

House Hyppean's base views in regards to the "rights" of the serfs smells awfully of Republicanism..

As vassals, they knew who their masters were - and that their masters owned the land.

If these "Desert Scythe" rabble truly wish for Hyppean protection, I am sure they could seek refuge within the Hyppean Fiefdom.

However, the land they live on belonged solely to House Klorin, who sold it legitimately to House Kilgore.

Therefore, the lands in question are the undeniable property of House Kilgore. As for the serfs themselves - if they renounce all possessions gained from or with the contested lands, they are free men once more, free to seek protection from whomever they wish.

Until then, however, all serfs are to be considered Kilgore assets. All lands in question are unquestionably belonging to Kilgore.

If Hyppean continues its plans to strike under such circumstances, we shall have no choice but to protest most vehemently.

- Remi

House Hyppean's base views in regards to the "rights" of the serfs smells awfully of Republicanism..
House of hyppean is everything but republican. Our deeds and behaviour have proven this countless of times. And this "rights" system is as old as house Hyppean. And despite of this, we are a major house. Despite of this we are loyal to the empire. Despite of this we are quite a bit less republican than many other houses. Especially many Minor houses, who always want to vote "this" and vote "that" and "lets vote over the issue should we vote that"!

Kilgore has no rights for lands which belong or at very least are in control of Dessert Scythe. This is a fact. And we will stand by it. Kilgore has no more rights to these lands than we do? But local nobles offered their submission - volunteerly. And we accepted their submission. Now they are Hyppean and We will stand by our House as you would stand by yours.

Scythes not having rights to their own lands? No! These lands were sold without asking from nobleness. Without warning. Not only lands but all property and nobles on these lands. These nobles have right for their property and their lives. House Hyppean will never compare a noble to be equal in rights to a peasant whose life can be gambled, sold or killed by owners choise. THIS CAN NOT BE. We also feel that these "sales" are both heretical, as well as republican. Not selling land to certain person, but selling nobles and all their property. We would not think poorly, if Klorin would have sold peasants and land. But they sold everything. Including nobles and their property. And they offered no way for nobles to retreat from their offer, so nobles had no choise but to submit themselves to more worthy house. House of Hyppean.

House Hyppean seems to have forgotten the fact that those "Nobles" of the "Desert Scythes" were merely put in place by Klorin to manage the land, not own it.

The land remained - right up until the deal - the property of Anthony Callier Klorin, head of Klorin House, whereafter they passed to General Iferius Bliel, of House Kilgore.

At no point did those now residing on the contested lands have legal ownership.

...
It seems that House Hyppean is expecting to subvert the rule of Imperial law, by throwing it's weight as a Major House around.
House Remillard, disgusted by this impertinent roguery, has no choice but to launch a full embargo on Hyppean trade, and close borders to all Hyppean citizens and dignitaries.

Hopefully House Hyppean will desist from its illegal enterprises before we are forced to further escalate measures.

- Remi

This is getting really interesting.

OOC: What's the Church's View?

Why would the Church be concerend with this again?

It shouldn't.

However, it has a practice of getting involved everywhere... and if it decides it's relevant, then woe betide any of us that object.

Why are we loyal?

Faith is the first calling, but our faith is based in our Lord's divinity. The Pancreator protects us, shepherds us through the trials of this mortal world. We have faith in Him because He is righteous. One can have faith in a false god, but any prayers would go unanswered, any blessings unreceived.

Duty is the second calling, for we all have our place in the world. But if a man serves the Lord with a heavy heart, his words will ring hollow and his acts will betray him. Duty is much like a hollow gourd; it is useless until it is filled. A man who fulfills his duty without having faith is like a man walking through the desert with a sack of empty gourds. He will succumb to thirst, and the desert will take him. His duty will be a burden, not a blessing, and he will die, afraid and alone.

It is interesting, then, the case of the desert nobles. They had faith, and fulfilled their duty, even through the Klorin Interdict. They had faith that the Church would welcome them back, that their leaders would look after them. But when their masters sold them to the Kilgore, they rebelled.

And so I wonder, what could they have seen that could be worse than the interdict?

If these nobles had proclaimed independence, if they had formed their own house and slain their masters, they would be clearly at fault. If they had attempted to choose their own destiny, it would be denied them, as to defy the feudal order is to defy the Pancreator Himself. But this is not the path they chose. Instead, they chose to submit to a Noble House, they chose to fulfill their duty to a house in which they had faith. They asked for masters deserving of their faith, and they submitted to rightful rulers, as must we all.

Bishop Akbar'Al

House Hyppean seems to have forgotten the fact that those "Nobles" of the "Desert Scythes" were merely put in place by Klorin to manage the land, not own it.

These "nobles" were from Klorin Lineage, so they have pretty much more right to at least be escorted out from these lands - according to lineage at very least. This was not done and nobles of Klorin were sold to as they would be slaves. Since when is acceptable for any ruler to deal with his most loyal subjects like slaves? And not just subjects, his lineage. Dessert Scythes have right on the property of Klorin on Arrakis. When Klorin "sold" his own family members, Dessert Scythes used this right, because they were as much Klorin as their leader and one can not sell his own sister or brother away into slavery for money. No One can't sell nobles. And nobles have right for this land, because they might not be directly on throne, but they are part of the throne.


The land remained - right up until the deal - the property of Anthony Callier Klorin, head of Klorin House, whereafter they passed to General Iferius Bliel, of House Kilgore.

And after that deal, Klorin nobles refused to admit this deal as this was a betrayal of master towards vassal, not vassals towards master. They Separated from House of Klorin and asked for Hyppean protection, instead of becoming slaves to Kilgores. And House Hyppea agreed to this. We believe Dessert Scythe Nobles have right to these lands. They did submit to us. So Hyppea has right to these lands. If kilgore invades further, Hyppea will protect its lands. And if Any other "allies" of Kilgore Invade us. We will protect usselves.

At no point did those now residing on the contested lands have legal ownership.
So A king and his family does not have ownership of the land that Leading noble family uses and shares as their own? This is quite an interesting concept, claiming that nobles ruling the house are dealing with something, that they do not have no rights to deal with.It is like, allowing peasant to sell a noble? Then claim peasant had no right, ever, to sell this noble and noble has all the right to do whatever he wants, while still demanding buyer to pay for peasant? Sounds as logical as your understanding of word "ownership" and "nobility".

It seems that House Hyppean is expecting to subvert the rule of Imperial law, by throwing it's weight as a Major House around.

We are a major house. It is not "throwing weight around" but stating a fact. We are a major house. And we have been against all offers of "vote this and vote that". This makes us not supporting Republicanism.

House Remillard, disgusted by this impertinent roguery, has no choice but to launch a full embargo on Hyppean trade, and close borders to all Hyppean citizens and dignitaries.

Hmm, interesting. So, if you would protect your house from invasion, you would accept others to close their markets to you for same reason? If you (or anyone else) want to do this, Expect same treatment from Hyppeans markets and spaceport.

Hopefully House Hyppean will desist from its illegal enterprises before we are forced to further escalate measures.
Our claim on Dessert Scythe Lands is very legal.

If these nobles had proclaimed independence, if they had formed their own house and slain their masters, they would be clearly at fault. If they had attempted to choose their own destiny, it would be denied them, as to defy the feudal order is to defy the Pancreator Himself. But this is not the path they chose. Instead, they chose to submit to a Noble House, they chose to fulfill their duty to a house in which they had faith. They asked for masters deserving of their faith, and they submitted to rightful rulers, as must we all.

They did all these things.

1. These nobles declared independence from their lord. All houses have records of their proclamation of independence.

2. They rose up and actively participated in rebellion against their masters, House Kilgore and currently arm their own serfs to fight against noble lords.

3. They defied the feudal order of Klorin by not submitting to the will of Kilgore. While Kilgore did not, by any means, buy these nobles, he did buy the land upon which they stood, and the serfs which they held command over by the leave of House Klorin. By the facts, these people have unlawfully rebelled against their liege lord, House Kilgore.

4. House Kilgore had every intention to incorporate those nobles who held positions while under House Klorin, into the Kilgore administrative heirarchy, however before this could be acheived the nobles rebelled and choose violence to resolve their disputes.

5. House Kilgore will still be willing to allow those who surrender amnesty. Those who do not will die as godless heathens. For those that defy the Pancreator, will burn in ever living fire.

So A king and his family does not have ownership of the land that Leading noble family uses and shares as their own? This is quite an interesting concept, claiming that nobles ruling the house are dealing with something, that they do not have no rights to deal with.It is like, allowing peasant to sell a noble? Then claim peasant had no right, ever, to sell this noble and noble has all the right to do whatever he wants, while still demanding buyer to pay for peasant? Sounds as logical as your understanding of word "ownership" and "nobility".

The Family does not - the King does, as head of the Family. The King is lord of all the Family, and so owns all assets thereof. If he seeks to relinquish control of it, so be it.
It is his to do so.

When Kings hand over inheritence, it goes to the son he has chosen, not the son who moans loudest or even, in some unfortunate cases, he who deserves it most.

The King has full right to the Family and the King's property. In this case, the King has sold parts of his lands to foreigners. How should the King react when his land is stolen by some petty half-bloods, who likely have been seeking to usurp his power and that land for some time now?

We are a major house. It is not "throwing weight around" but stating a fact. We are a major house. And we have been against all offers of "vote this and vote that". This makes us not supporting Republicanism.

Ah. Good to see the meatheaded ones confuse Republicanism and good rule for Imperial unity. I suppose they would have no problem with having no voting rights if the Reagent declared their lands officially forfeit to the Reagent's estate?

Although I must appreciate your honesty in being so open about your intentions to use physical force to exploit your fellow Nobles... I wonder how the Church and the aforementioned Nobles feel about that?

Hmm, interesting. So, if you would protect your house from invasion, you would accept others to close their markets to you for same reason? If you (or anyone else) want to do this, Expect same treatment from Hyppeans markets and spaceport.

You return the favour?
Oh, how charming!
Nice to see you'll happily stoop to the level of us "pathetic" Minor Houses by following our lead..

Our claim on Dessert Scythe Lands is very legal.

It is?
Oh, well, why didn't you say so!
This is all such a misunderstanding..

All we'll need to see is the title deed, handed over by House Klorin when you paid for the Fiefdom..
...
Pardon?
....
You didn't pay?
...
But then how did you get the deeds?!

- Remi

Erhem,

If I may ask you... is there any trade between Remiallardians and Hyppeans?

Not as far as i'm aware, dear Reagent...

Though admitting that makes it far less dramatic, don't you think?

- Remi

Yes, but then again I do have to make sure that this little debacle doesn't go too far out of hand. You see, business of Arrakis is Imperium's Business. After all, most of the fuel supply for the Fleet comes from this little desert planet after all. And Hyppean do have one of the space ports in Arrakis.

True enough, my dear.

Really, it was just for the principle of showing these thugs that they can't expect to get away with everything they please - a taste of what could be to come, I suppose.

- Remi

Lol, wait. This debacle sounds really similiar to that of Dune Books. A silly battle over a planet from which means to travel between the galaxy comes from.


Now all I have to wait for is some young nobleman from some important noble house to become a prophet figure among the desert tribesmen and lead a successful rebellion against the Imperium and me, killing Ludenard and taking his scepter in the process and declaring himself God Emperor of mankind.

If I just announce the rules of engagement of fighting between noble houses, it would also be a homage to the Dune Games!

OOC: I really should get around to reading those. :p

They did all these things.

1. These nobles declared independence from their lord. All houses have records of their proclamation of independence.
They proclaimed independence during period they were lordless.

2. They rose up and actively participated in rebellion against their masters, House Kilgore and currently arm their own serfs to fight against noble lords.
These "nobles" revolted against possible invasion of your armies. As part of Klorin House they decided not to accept this "sales" issue. As Blood related nobles they have this right. So, House Klorin fell into two separate parts - one part on Arrakis and rest elsewhere. House Klorin can not sell property that belongs to the Other part of House Klorin. Scythes therefor had legitimate reason to resist your armies - they were not your "subjects." or , as you put it, you are not their Master.

So, Part of House Klorin sold themselves to us instead. For free. And now they are ours. Our claims on Scythe lands are as good as yours.

On topic of serf armies- - Every army fights with serfs. Do you have so many children that all your warriors nobles? Or, may pancreator have mercy on your sould, you use freemen armies? Maybe you even release peasants from slavery so they'd do their duty "volunteer jobs" better?


3. They defied the feudal order of Klorin by not submitting to the will of Kilgore. Since when are kilgore and Klorin same? Since when does feudal order say that NOBLES can be sold and bought? Peasants, yes, but nobles?

While Kilgore did not, by any means, buy these nobles, he did buy the land upon which they stood, and the serfs which they held command over by the leave of House Klorin. Dessert Scythes are equal to House Klorin on Arrakis, in our opinion. They are successors of Klorin, nowhere near as prestigous yes, but still they, as nobles related to Klorin, had right to these lands.

By the facts, these people have unlawfully rebelled against their liege lord, House Kilgore. By facts, Arrakis Klorin families refused to Accept Incellia Klorin Families wishes. They are still Klorin. This means sell order was void. Meaning House kilgore invaded Scythes. By the facts, House Kilgore invaded a separate but free house who now submitted themselves to Hyppean. So if Kilgore continues invasion, we will protect our lands. A fact.


4. House Kilgore had every intention to incorporate those nobles who held positions while under House Klorin, into the Kilgore administrative heirarchy, however before this could be acheived the nobles rebelled and choose violence to resolve their disputes. Scyhthe - successors of Klorin on Arrakis - nobles on Arrakis think differently. Instead they Incorporated with Hyppean nobles without any resistance.


5. House Kilgore will still be willing to allow those who surrender amnesty. Those who do not will die as godless heathens. For those that defy the Pancreator, will burn in ever living fire.
Since when Is house of Kilgores will equal to Pancreators? On what reasoning you blame Hyppean to betray Pancreator. Or are you implying you will torture us until we say no to pancreator? May Pancreator judge your souls.

OOC: WTF DUDEEEEEEEE, leave Pancreator out of this, least you'll anger the Church or the Pancreator himself.

The King has full right to the Family and the King's property. In this case, the King has sold parts of his lands to foreigners. How should the King react when his land is stolen by some petty half-bloods, who likely have been seeking to usurp his power and that land for some time now?
Who is right and who is wrong to rule the House of Klorin is a question of view. Last "right" committed a suicide. Lands can not be stolen. Lands are given for service. Lands can be taken for dishonorable service. Scythes did not dishonor the ruler of Klorin, but it was Klorin ruler, who dishonored Scythes.

Ah. Good to see the meatheaded ones confuse Republicanism and good rule for Imperial unity. I suppose they would have no problem with having no voting rights if the Reagent declared their lands officially forfeit to the Reagent's estate? Voting is not good rule. Unity is not a question of voting. It is question of loyalty. When you have to "vote" everything, what does it say about loyalty? Republicans voted everything and look where it took them. Voting anything else but Regent position, is, what we call "republicanism".

Should Regent declare our lands belonging to him and if he can state a solid reason why (invasion, heretic behaviour for few examples). Just to make sure Emperor is not on power trip, like the first regent was, we would give all our lands to Emperor. We would give all our lands if it comes to this. Without "a vote". Because voting slows things down it only creates republicanism and we are an EMPIRE not noble republic.


Although I must appreciate your honesty in being so open about your intentions to use physical force to exploit your fellow Nobles... I wonder how the Church and the aforementioned Nobles feel about that?

How should church feel about what? House Hyppean protecting its lands against invasion? Dealing with merchants, like they deal with us? Threatening to use force to PROTECT usselves not to invade anyone for land .. like Kilgore invaded Scythes?

We have this right and we will use it. I don't think Church is neccesery in discussion between nobles and claims on lands. Church itself probably does respect our right to protect our lands and lands which we have claims on. Yet, I can not speak for the church, but neither can you.

You return the favour?
Oh, how charming!
Nice to see you'll happily stoop to the level of us "pathetic" Minor Houses by following our lead..
We are fair traders, but how could allow your merchants profit while ours are forbidden to do so in your lands? Or are you calling yourself "pathetic"? If that is the case you have a one, rather odd, house.


All we'll need to see is the title deed, handed over by House Klorin when you paid for the Fiefdom..
...
Pardon?
....
You didn't pay?
...
But then how did you get the deeds?!


Here are deeds that prove that Dessert Scythe has given their lands to us.
Pardon?
...
Kilgore has papers for Klorin lands?
...
Well let him have whatever is left of Klorin lands. We have deeds and rights for Dessert Scythe Lands. So everyone are happy?

Oh and why would we need to pay for these papers when Scythes themselves offered these deeds in exchange of being accepted among Hyppean Families? Is it not silly of klorin to sell lands which he does not own? Or Kilgore to claim lands which are obiviously not under Klorin Leader/king control?

The Scythes never owned any of the land which they administered since we have established that no vassal owns his/her land. The Scythes thus could not have any paper stating they own any of the land they "gave" to you.

Stop trying to justify your occupation of Kilgore lands by parroting the same thing over and over again.

Remove your forces, renounce your claim or there is war.

Simple.

OOC: Stop trying to argue symantics with me when you don't even speak english properly. I'm quite sure you can construct a spectacular argument in Estonian, however you have not been able to do so in English at this current point in time.

OOC: Stop trying to argue symantics with me when you don't even speak english properly. I'm quite sure you can construct a spectacular argument in Estonian, however you have not been able to do so in English at this current point in time.

OOC: Please don't bring that into it.

I'm sure he's trying his best.

OOC: Let's keep this civil, people.

OOC: I am keeping it civil. He's arguments are flawed, plain and simple. The reason they are flawed is not becaue he lacks intelligence it is because he has a different native language.

If I called him stupid that would be a different story.

Semi OOC:
If these nobles had proclaimed independence, if they had formed their own house and slain their masters, they would be clearly at fault. If they had attempted to choose their own destiny, it would be denied them, as to defy the feudal order is to defy the Pancreator Himself. But this is not the path they chose. Instead, they chose to submit to a Noble House, they chose to fulfill their duty to a house in which they had faith. They asked for masters deserving of their faith, and they submitted to rightful rulers, as must we all.
Bolded is what actually happened. Italics is what they are trying to hide behind so the Church won't get them. It the update had told of some joined hyppean, there is precidence. But all we hear is rebellion first, and then the attempt to gain Hyppean's aid. Thus, according to Bishop Akbar'Al, they are disloyal.

I win.

IC:

I ask the Church tor review the sequence of events, listen to Bishop Akbar'al's argument, and agree that they indeed revolted first against the Pancreator's Ordering of our worlds as a fuedal one, then tried to hide within the faith by joining Hyppean.

OOC:

Due to recent events I have discovered that I cannot continue this anymore. I apparently am powerless to prevent the downward spiral the Empire is going into and cannot do anything to help. Rather than participate in assisting the Empire tear itself apart and abandon its defenses as is becoming more and more likely if the last year is any indication and from my recent survey of the Fleet and Garrison forces, therefore I am withdrawing from this NES to save myself the headache and heartache of trying to save the Empire my father created.

It was fun while it lasted.

Sad to see you go.

i got two three maps done... only two three though... more to come.

OOC: Stop trying to argue symantics with me when you don't even speak english properly. I'm quite sure you can construct a spectacular argument in Estonian, however you have not been able to do so in English at this current point in time.

OOC: Okay, I can be silent for rest of the game. However, being a major house that would not do. Immac can you find me a replacement?

I have legal claims on Scythe's land. At least in my houses opinion, because I see vassalization differently and as my house is mainly made of vassals and traders whom are lead by one family, but whom have quite high autonomy, I have the right to see vassalization differently.
I will not back down. Because Scythes are part of my house. If you want my land and invade it, I will protect myself. That includes attacking you and any allies you may have. in that case, this will probably result of being bloodbath, but that is your wish. I did offer a peaceful solution and were willing to buy these lands, no one in the empire can say otherwise.

I am sorry for being pathetic in English.

OOC:

This is getting really interesting.
"May you live in interesting times." ...

I am sorry for being pathetic in English.
You're not
And the point is not to convince the other party.
It's just more fun to have several noble houses throwing self-righteous, more or less deluded and invalid arguments, at each other. You're not in a fight with Kentharu to convince each other. Each house has its views of the situation, both from a legal and a realpolitik standpoint. You are just both throwing stuff at each other to appear right. It does not matter who uses the best arguments, because ultimately there is no judge out there, only a bunch of nobles who will likely not be convinced to change their opinion by pleading, however brilliant it may be.
I mean, had someone else taken the sceptre from Klorin house, I'd probably be calling them thieves too. And I might call that myself OOC too. But IC, I can only see the will of the Pancreator for bringing a sceptre into my hands. Of course, that won't convince anybody. But it will be enough a justification for my own people and it's makes the NES more interesting.
It's the same for houses Hyppean and Kilgore. All your arguments, although they seem to be directed at the other house, are actually aimed first at your own people so they stand by your house, and second at the other nobles so they support you. However, even the "convincing other houses" part is quite weak. It's actually all about providing these house leaders with arguments to justify their choice of backing either of you. Realpolitiks will matter more than legal arguments in who backs whom, at least on Arrakis. Off-world houses like Texier, Naprous... may be influenced by your arguments, but then again they may have a history with house Kilgore in particular that would skew their point of view.

Attention all Houses

The Fleet needs an ACC volunteer on Errovus Secondus (or maybe Arrakis would do) [OOC: I'm not sure, Immac, would Arrakis do?] to carry out a task (coming to the Fleet fiefdom and designing a new spacecraft design) this coming turn. Any noble's ACC would be appreciated even if they have no experience whatsoever of spaceships.

Is any noble willing to undertake this?

Attention all Houses

The Fleet needs an ACC volunteer on Errovus Secondus (or maybe Arrakis would do) [OOC: I'm not sure, Immac, would Arrakis do?] to carry out a task (coming to the Fleet fiefdom and designing a new spacecraft design) this coming turn. Any noble's ACC would be appreciated even if they have no experience whatsoever of spaceships.

Is any noble willing to undertake this?

Oops. Misread. Might do it.

It's a combination freighter-frigate with weaponry and room for passengers that we can use to ferry more elite troops more easily to Stigmata without a convoy, which would be potentially useful for all sorts of other business and small-scale operations, which individual noble houses could well want to buy and use, to the Fleet's profit, and which the Charioteers are also interested in; there are various other uses for it. All in all, we can see that it is a sort of craft the Imperium lacks, and that, if used, would have made a lot of actions that have already been carried out in the last five years easier and safer, and so we want to design it now so it can be used in two or three years' time.

Is that what you wanted by way of elaboration?

edit: in that case, well, tell me if you're willing as soon as soon as you can. Other volunteers please come forward if you are available.

Lol, wait. This debacle sounds really similiar to that of Dune Books. A silly battle over a planet from which means to travel between the galaxy comes from.

Now all I have to wait for is some young nobleman from some important noble house to become a prophet figure among the desert tribesmen and lead a successful rebellion against the Imperium and me, killing Ludenard and taking his scepter in the process and declaring himself God Emperor of mankind.

You know we have God Emperor (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=177592) as a reserve player, right? I think he'd be up for it.

You know we have God Emperor (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=177592) as a reserve player, right? I think he'd be up for it.

He could take over Scythes?

Also, he'll need to unlock private messages. Members have to have at least 15 posts and 15 days of membership to do it. There is an alternative way that is easier (and less spammy) - Just post here and ask your PM's to be unlocked (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=350036), it'll take around a day (once some moderator sees his post).

We do also apparently have two open slots that are actual real noble houses (Eekin and Illborne) and I should have thought that these would be more attractive prospects to a new player than forming a small part of House Hyppean's domain or being a prophet among the desert tribesmen. :p

Pfft if you can call Illborne a real House...

Hey, if he becomes a desert prophet, then he can ride around using 300 feet long worms as his mount.

I think we have a player for Eekin.

Pfft if you can call Illborne a real House...

I call it an orgainized rabble, but as stated at least they didn't rebel against those they had sworn to.

OOC: Okay, I can be silent for rest of the game. However, being a major house that would not do. Immac can you find me a replacement?

I have legal claims on Scythe's land. At least in my houses opinion, because I see vassalization differently and as my house is mainly made of vassals and traders whom are lead by one family, but whom have quite high autonomy, I have the right to see vassalization differently.
I will not back down. Because Scythes are part of my house. If you want my land and invade it, I will protect myself. That includes attacking you and any allies you may have. in that case, this will probably result of being bloodbath, but that is your wish. I did offer a peaceful solution and were willing to buy these lands, no one in the empire can say otherwise.

I am sorry for being pathetic in English.

You aren't. It's simply that your house views the feudal / vassal system different from all the others. Just like The Query view familial relationships different from all teh others.

It's a combination freighter-frigate with weaponry and room for passengers that we can use to ferry more elite troops more easily to Stigmata without a convoy, which would be potentially useful for all sorts of other business and small-scale operations, which individual noble houses could well want to buy and use, to the Fleet's profit, and which the Charioteers are also interested in; there are various other uses for it. All in all, we can see that it is a sort of craft the Imperium lacks, and that, if used, would have made a lot of actions that have already been carried out in the last five years easier and safer, and so we want to design it now so it can be used in two or three years' time.

Is that what you wanted by way of elaboration?

edit: in that case, well, tell me if you're willing as soon as soon as you can. Other volunteers please come forward if you are available.
Yes, Mortimer could do that as he's on E2.

Yes, Mortimer could do that as he's on E2.

Alright, thanks very much! Just instruct him to come along to the Fleet fiefdom and use his ACC on our design then.

Immac: 1. Does LDiCesare need the details of the design or can he just say to use his ACC on Fleet business?

2. Who is the Eekin player then?

God Emperor if he is up to it, I guess.

Semi OOC:

Bolded is what actually happened. Italics is what they are trying to hide behind so the Church won't get them. It the update had told of some joined hyppean, there is precidence. But all we hear is rebellion first, and then the attempt to gain Hyppean's aid. Thus, according to Bishop Akbar'Al, they are disloyal.

I win.

IC:

I ask the Church tor review the sequence of events, listen to Bishop Akbar'al's argument, and agree that they indeed revolted first against the Pancreator's Ordering of our worlds as a fuedal one, then tried to hide within the faith by joining Hyppean.

They did not seek to exist outside of the feudal system. They sought refuge under House Hyppean immediately. They did not have time to negotiate settlements, as they were about to be occupied by the Kilgore invaders. Had they attempted to remain free, even for a month, your argument would have merit. But their actions show their intent - they have submitted to greater nobles, as the Pancreator deigns.

This is the last I will speak on the matter. I have prayed on this, and the answer to me is clear. No mundane argument can go against His will.

No they sought to be a new noble house independant of masters until they realized that someone, House Kilgore, had purchased the land rights. What they should have done was leave the land and serfs to Kilgore and personally gone to House Hyppean if they did not want to swear fealty to Kilgore. The problem is they tried to take the rightful purchase of Kilgore away from them.

The issue is not if those nobles went to Hyppean, the issue is they tried to take Kilgore's property with them to House Hyppean.

Lord Guy, Fye Clan, The Query

The nobles are free to leave, but they will not seize Kilgore land while doing so.

Pray on this, you will see the truth in it.

The nobles are free to leave, but they will not seize Kilgore land while doing so.

Pray on this, you will see the truth in it.

Kilgore lands are what they bought from Klorin. Because Klorin did not have right to sell Scythes Lands and Kilgore families broke into several pieces after the sale, Dessert Scythes lands do not belong to Kilgore, because one can not sell nor buy things that do not belong to seller.

And there's the crux of it, you feel that this land is owned by whatever nobles are assigned there, while we all feel the land is owned by the House. Well pity you won't change your mind.

No I do not think your idea republican, I simply think it isn't what the rest of us believe.

Oh well.

Lord Guy, Fye Clan, The Query

OOC: Does it say anywhere which spaceports are planetary and which are orbital? If not, could someone tell me please?

OOC: I think the only house owned space one is The Query's.

OOC: Eye on Assimov?
Garrison on Hubbard?
Regency on Arrakis?
Regency on Incellia?

Are those all orbital?

OOC: House owned I don't know about the regency and such.

OOC: I know that, I was asking everybody else too. :p

If it says Planetary, it's on land.

If it says orbital, it's in space.

If it says Planetary, it's on land.

If it says orbital, it's in space.

Yes, I know that, but where does it say "planetary" and "orbital"? :p

OOC: Eye on Assimov?
Garrison on Hubbard?
Regency on Arrakis?
Regency on Incellia?

Are those all orbital?

OOC:
I'm unsure if Arrakis has one or two spaceports, I'm 90% certain sure that there are 2, maybe 3 spaceports - at least one planetary and one orbital. I own the Planetary one.

Garrison on Hubbard has planetary spaceport in the city of Windigo II (which was under attack by symbiots).

Garrison on Stigimata has both Planetary as well as orbital spaceports. Planetary spaceport is inside or outside (in the general area of) of the fortress. Orbital spaceport is where fleet keeps its fuel supplies and hence may not fall to symbiots again.

E2 has fleet with an orbital drydock and regency and authority have orbital spaceports. Not sure what has become of Authority spaceport.

Assimov, If I am not mistaken The Eye has planetary spaceport.

Clarke - map shows that query and prospectors have planetary spaceports?

Incellia - No idea. Map shows that regency and Koriotate have the spaceport.

Naw ours is a space elevator and orbital spaceport. (just disscussed with Immac)

yeah, the Eye has a small planetary Spaceport on Asimov. I don't think it can support anything bigger then a dropship, at least it said something like that before those assets became invisible in the stats. If you want to land cargo ships then you must go through my spaceport

Alright, thanks very much! Just instruct him to come along to the Fleet fiefdom and use his ACC on our design then.

Immac: 1. Does LDiCesare need the details of the design or can he just say to use his ACC on Fleet business?

2. Who is the Eekin player then?
1. Does’t matter to me as long as one of you details it.
God Emperor if he is up to it, I guess.

Havn’t heard anything from him.
I invited TheLizardKing thinking he would refuse but to my surprise he said he would probably join but needs to check things out first a bit. You can check out our conversation on my visitor messages or his visitor messages.

OOC: Eye on Assimov?
Garrison on Hubbard?
Regency on Arrakis?
Regency on Incellia?

Are those all orbital?

OOC:
I'm unsure if Arrakis has one or two spaceports, I'm 90% certain sure that there are 2, maybe 3 spaceports - at least one planetary and one orbital. I own the Planetary one.

Garrison on Hubbard has planetary spaceport in the city of Windigo II (which was under attack by symbiots).

Garrison on Stigimata has both Planetary as well as orbital spaceports. Planetary spaceport is inside or outside (in the general area of) of the fortress. Orbital spaceport is where fleet keeps its fuel supplies and hence may not fall to symbiots again.

E2 has fleet with an orbital drydock and regency and authority have orbital spaceports. Not sure what has become of Authority spaceport.

Assimov, If I am not mistaken The Eye has planetary spaceport.

Clarke - map shows that query and prospectors have planetary spaceports?

Incellia - No idea. Map shows that regency and Koriotate have the spaceport.

Naw ours is a space elevator and orbital spaceport. (just disscussed with Immac)

Spaceports
Stigmata:
Planetary spaceport – Garrison
Orbital spaceport- Fleet (I think)
E2:
Planetary spaceport- Regency
Orbital spaceport- Regency
Orbital Ship-Building facilities- Fleet
Authority spaceports are no longer functional.
Hubbard:
Planetary spaceport- Garrison
Assimov:
Planetary spaceport- Imperium eye (minor), Quin
Arrakis:
Planetary spaceport- Regency, Hyppean
Clarke:
Planetary Spaceport- Prospectors,
Planetary and Orbtial- Querry
Incellia:
Planetary: Regency, Koriate

Alright, thanks very much! Just instruct him to come along to the Fleet fiefdom and use his ACC on our design then.

Immac: 1. Does LDiCesare need the details of the design or can he just say to use his ACC on Fleet business?

Yes I need it. I can't be expected to see to a design without knowing it. Even if I could, I would point out you have no reason to hide the design from fellow nobles and refuse to help if you did, as it would obviously show you are hiding things and therefore not working for the better good.

Alright, sure, I'll send it to you.

I thought E2 had an orbital spaceport but it got destroyed with the authority war?

Regency still has one.

Regency still has one.

And fleet (I could swear it was guilds...) has drydock aswell.

Immac what's the state of Authority spaceport?

Immac told me that it was now scrap metal.

Its described in detail in update 4.

For the Killgore, things are not as quiet; indeed they send several battalions of soldiers through Xicier territory and to the Klorin fiefdom. These fertile lands are very different from the high shepherding lands of the traditional Killgore fiefdoms. Arriving they find much of the local population very unenthusiastic regarding their ‘sale’ to the Killgore and while the Killgore infantry quickly secure the capital of Lanark, much of the outlying towns and villages declare their independence, refusing to recognize the ‘barbarian bandits of Killgore’. Many of the rebel families unite under one banner, calling themselves the ‘House of the Dessert Scythe’ and purchasing what weapons and military advisors they can.

The annexation of these lands promises to be a rough affair, already some minor skirmishes have broken out between the Desert Scythe and the Killgore, though losses have been limited to a few poorly armed batallions.

Obviously they fought Killgore for the sake of fighting them, despite being invited to keep their land and ranks under Killgore's Government. Then, seeing the lack of recognition they asked Hyppean for their support. As you can notice from the time periods: They talked to Hyppean after fighting broke out. They joined Hyppean because they left, and not the opposite.

We hope Hyppean realizes their folly before lives are wasted and call upon you once more to remove yourselves and those nobles who want to follow you off the properly Kilgore lands.

Lord Guy, Fye Clan, The Query

We hope Hyppean realizes their folly before lives are wasted and call upon you once more to remove yourselves and those nobles who want to follow you off the properly Kilgore lands.

Lord Guy, Fye Clan, The Query

Those who are willing to leave from Kilgore lands are welcomed to join us. However, should Kilgore invade us (including the land what the scythes live on), we will defend us and our subjects and vassals. Even if it leads us to war.

See again only you acknowledge this house desert full of crap. I see you will not be swayed, pity.

From Regent Akatas
To All parties of interest

It has been a while since the first disturbing news reached my ears: a suggestion that a war may occur in the former Klorin-held territory of Lanark in Arrakis. While many had advised, warned, and threatened me to remain outside the conflict, I fear that the matter in Arrakis, given its nature as the source of most of the Fleet's fuel supply and also as the source of most of our food, is too delicate to be handled by noble houses without Regency's mediation. It is thusly so that House Hyppean contacted me saying that they are willing to negotiate a peace.

This war may have serious consequences on the Imperium, in the number of lives lost, commerce disrupted, and animosity created. Thusly, it is vitally imperative that some kind of peace be negotiated, or at least warfare be monitored in order to not cause severe devastation and suffering to the parties involved.

The following is the suggested terms for the peace:

Kilgore will receive the land they had bought from House Klorin in totality.

-In Exchange, all nobles who claim to be part of Desert Scythe, and up to 500,000 serfs, will be allowed to leave their land unharmed to the Hyppean lands. In addition, all military units under command of the Desert Scythe Nobles will also join House Hyppean's military force.

--House Hyppean, in exchange for the removal for the 500,000 (approximately 10% of total population) serfs from the lands surrounding Lanark, will pay House Kilgore 2 MF compensation fee (approximately 10% of the value of the land)

All Houses that violates the terms of the negotiation after it has been signed by both parties will suffer the wrath of the Regency's force.


I pray for House Kilgore to accept either this terms or some other negotiated terms of peace.

House of Hyppean confirms this proposal.

Oh. My Gawd.

House Kilgore totally agrees. Party at my house?

Lieutenant Alron Gore, Minister of State to General Iferius Bliel

Its the Pancreator, my dear.

I can provide the Hors Devours! I bet Xicier wants to bring the Tea and Coffee.

The Pancreator be praised!

May pancreator be merciful on those, who are left behind in Kilgore infested lands. May he aid the construction of new fiefs for our brothers from Desert Scythes. May it be a new chance of a better future, for these, once abandoned and betrayed but then rescued, nobles.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/11/4/13942eaf-c6ed-4f3e-aacb-e5bc1031b55a.jpg

Story List (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10081891&postcount=604) UPDATED! If you want some of the awesome diplomacy to also be in here, just tell me.

Story List (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10081891&postcount=604) UPDATED! If you want some of the awesome diplomacy to also be in here, just tell me.


You my dear sir, are awesome!

Thanks Terrance888

Philipe Van Gar watched from an outcropping at the battle below. Shouts and scrams permeate the air. Explosions of color stain the sands as vehicles: Tanks, Infantry Fighting Vehicles, and even ‘mere’ Technical churned the desert. Flashes of dye are exploding upon every surface as they maneuvered around each other, seeking to hit the weaker rear amour or a turret-blasting shot at the joint. Mere ants compared to the vehicles, small squads also maneuver among the madness, some riding upon tanks desant, others alternately hiding from the armour or firing at the opposing side. A few adventurous souls even operate some Anti-tank weapons, attempting to take down some vehicles of their own. Every few minutes, those who are hit walked regardless of their brightly colored wounds back to HQ a few clicks in either direction.

He watched without speaking for a few more minutes. To his right stood his Tactical Officer, General Yuban Vari-Quentin and his Intelligence Officer, and former head of RICA Dresdale Vari-Santos. To his left stood the minor noble George Van Hadrel and the strongest Nomad Lord who can count 6,000 braves under his command: Lord Tse Lyn. The battle continued to rage hotly, but the Red command slowly gained an upper hand with a series of armored transports bringing wounded troops out and fresh troops into the fray without worry compared to the Blue sides’ marching. They also shielded the infantry from long range fire during the approach, cleared bunkers and light tanks with their weapons, and silenced machinegun nests. The battle line slowly inched in their favor, despite the Blue’s advantage in conventional armor. Finally, as the sun set the Red team encircled their command post and took their surrender. Philipe slowly nodded and walked to a compound, his advisors following him.


--------------------------------


“Report” he spoke, leaning back. “Quentin first.”



“Thank you,” spoke the thin man. His bespectacled eyes glinted as he looked upon his notes. “The Desert Raptor at his current iteration has fixed its fuel problem, as well as fully integrating the Air Conditioning, Radiator and Air Purifier. This test shows its worth at moving units faster than the enemy though possible, striking through weak spots behind an Armored assault, and in evacuation of wounded and introduction of reinforcement.” The Tactical Officer wrung his hands,” Although its costs are rather prohibitive, they can be easily implemented into small mobile squads and used in concert as a Spearhead, capable of smashing through weak lines alone, carrying reinforcement without fear of interdictment and giving us tempo in tactical confrontations.”



“Good. Desert Specialist Santos next.”



She cleared her throat. “The Desert Raptor offers many moral benefits as well. Each operate as a miniature communications nexus, capable of organizing infantry around them for attack or defense as well as receiving intelligence for their companies. Their Air Conditioning and First Aid greatly increases the effectiveness in the desert, offering respite, a platoon at a time, as well as aiding Medics with better equipment.” She gave Philipe a quick smile that he seemed to ignore. Clearing her throat, she finished, "Overall, it is a very powerful addition to our inventory."



“Let its designer, George Van Hadrel, speak.”



“Very well, my lord.” Spoke the weathered young man. He is the youngest here and has two years of experience near the RICA rail road, fighting with his own men and sometimes leading light armored retaliation by himself. “I have seen the possibilities of armored movement during the battles utilizing Tank Desant, or the riding of troops upon a tank. It greatly increases mobility and firepower. However, its disadvantages of heat and as bullet magnets forces only the most skilled platoons to even attempt it. Working with my cousin, Jonas, we built the first prototype by rebuilding a Technical with armor plating, machine guns and a large storage bay for troops. A small squad of these was crucial in the final battles where they cut off the Retreat at the Bleached Gorge, stopping their horses in their tracks and unloading a total of three platoons of infantry and securing the final capture of ten thousand nomads.” He gave a quick rub of his hands, “With endorsement and the aid of our new Vassals, we designed and built the Desert Hawk Mk 1. After a few more handmade versions at my workshop, I worked with Top officials to start the Desert Raptor series, which we seemed to perfect just about now.”



Philipe gave a nod. Although he didn’t show either his excitement or boredom, he knew he would have revealed both with much further words. “Let Lord Lye speak.”



The dusty, tanned skin of the Nomad Lord cracked like leather as he stood up. He spoke in broken Common, as if he is still not used to the language, “I thank you, Lord Philipe Van Gar. I have worked with the Hadrels in the designs, sharing our ancient ways of combat: Mobility, Surprise, Firepower. I can confidently say that the Desert Raptor MKIII is the epitome of what we sought in desert warfare to bring entire companies and firepower beyond what the enemy thinks possible and to strike from every direction. I will say that my support of you is vindicated from this revolutionary machine.”



There was now silence as they all ruminated on the first and amazing performance of the machine. Equal numbers of the supposed superior Medium Van Crusader tanks were replaced by these in the Red Team, with units of the same pedigree facing each other with dye guns. Yet their victory cannot have been more total.



Philipe stood up. “We have designed one of the latest weapons in warfare. It brings the mobility of the tank, the fire power of missile artillery and the versatility of infantry together. I am pleased with the result: You are all dismissed.”



With single movement they all stood up and walked out of the debriefing room. Philipe quickly signed an order to adjust production at the Aries Corp Military-Industrial Complex and joined them.

Your NES looks really good, and I'd like to join, but I hesitate, because of what I feel to be my basic understanding of the stats, and what has happened since update one. I want to play the faction [Eekin] correctly, and not ruin it. So if you have any easy read, or info for me, before I officially join, I'd love to read it.

Anyone got any responses to this? Does anyone feel like breaking down the stats into easily digestible chunks? Or Eekin or setting history?

Nope I'm happy

Claiming Eekin. Any information you guys have that you might want to send my way will be appreciated.

Claiming Eekin. Any information you guys have that you might want to send my way will be appreciated.

:band:

you make me so happy.


EDIT: Please note that new players can change their faction's policy without using an action on the turn the join.

Claiming Eekin. Any information you guys have that you might want to send my way will be appreciated.

I'll quickly summary stats from my point of view.

Background: Eekin is one of the most prestigious houses, having their house member - Vladimir Eekin found the Empire(the founder of The Empire, which we are all members of). However, they have not done so good military wise recently,so their prestige and other likings are not very high (but not that sucky either).

House itself: They are a strong military house, I for one, am more like a traders house that has branch in military. Eekin seems to be focused on space travel side of the military, having a destroyer in their disposal (not many houses have spaceships, other than simple dropships). Their ACCs are same - focused in battling. In overall battle, I'd be scared of this house, just because this house has a Destroyer. However, currently, they lack in military quantity to be a true threat.

Their reputation with their factions (Civilians, nobles, clergymen, traders, empire) seems to be rather decent, but not enough (for an example) to gamble away nobles wives and then hope these nobles will not get mad and riot.

Political standing: You got a destroyer. It's a tool to bargain with. You also have one Scepter - means you got overall 1 vote for who is going to be the emperor.

Standing with Church: Having found the empire and being friendly with Brothers Battle (see your "order of Baelious" policy) will defiantly aid you out with the church. Other than that, you are equal to everyone else , so you are not a saint like Sactius'Al or Holy Gate.

ACC's:
You have two ACC's. One on Stigimata - Symbiot infested planet, that we are fighting on. And one on Assimov. Both are militaristic.

Income
Your income mostly relies on taxation and production. While you barely do any trading. Other than that, you got quite an average income. I'd reccommend to expand into trade. See if you can trade with NPC, build a production facility or two or even get a share in intergalactic trade. (see "Trade routes" section.)

Fiefs:
E2 - A small fief. You have a share of Communal Farmlands, together with me (hyppean), Sactious'Al, and Tsedeq.
Clarke - You have a major fief on that watery planet. No idea of your holdings, probably fishing and stuff. Ask Immac.

Things you should know:
Empire hates republicanism (voting everything)
We are at war with Sybiots. Symbiots are creatures that can alter their DNA and are interested in expansion and new hosts. They can use any living being to expand and to make more of themselves.
We are currently at war with Evvies (elves) who were kicked out from the empire. This might change soon enough.
You are part of the CoM (Council of minors), because you are a minor house. Still, be careful who you trust. This NES is about intrigue and scheming =)

This is what I could understand by quickly glancing at your stats. Don't worry if this seems complex, first ImmacNES seemed pretty dang difficult for me too, but you'll learn fast.

Repubicanism has nothing to do with voting. If thats all it was we would be a republic because we do vote for our leaders. The difference is in who does the voting. Republicanism is taking power (ie. voting) away from the nobility and giving it to the serfs. Nothing to do with anything else.

Repubicanism has nothing to do with voting. If thats all it was we would be a republic because we do vote for our leaders. The difference is in who does the voting. Republicanism is taking power (ie. voting) away from the nobility and giving it to the serfs. Nothing to do with anything else.

IMHO Republic means that we have to vote everything. Not republic means that what one says, that goes.

No, that's mob democracy.

IMHO Republic means that we have to vote everything. Not republic means that what one says, that goes.

Pretty sure Immac's definition is power to the serfs. Popular suffrage is certainly a major component of a republic, voting for everything less so imo. I don't believe it would be a republic if the actions of the regent were voted on by the noble Houses each turn. What would make it a republic is if we let the serfs and commoners do so.

Eekin and The Query have a defensive pact and generally good relationship. Questions feel free to pm me.

"Sir? Sir?"
Such an annoyingly high-pitched voice.. So early too..
Yawning magnificently, Raphael Remillard dragged himself up from the obnoxiously uncomfortable bed.
Bleary eyed, he once more found himself staring at the walls of his assigned room.
Drab.
Grey.
Dull.

He again cursed cousin Remi mentally for forcing him to this Pancreator-forsaken place..
His husky voice cracking from the choking lack of moisture within this "sterile" environment, he managed to mumble "What unholy hour is it this time?"
The indistinct blob of grey in his strained vision yapped back "Half an hour to Testing time, sir. Didn't anyone tell you that 10 in the morning is always testing time?"
He groaned.
If he were back on the estate, the servants would be more than happy to not let him wake before noon..

Trying to fall back to his pillow from lack of energy only increased the frequency and pitch of the blob's yelps, so he finally, with much aching, dragged himself to his feet, cleared his vision through severe eye-rubbing and gave himself a firm scratch for good measure.
Such a good scratch, in fact, that it forced the lab assistant to turn away, embarressed.
Or disgusted. He couldn't really tell which.
Throwing on his clothes, he followed her out of his room, sulkily aware that he'd completely missed breakfast in the schedule of this mentally unsound place.
Why had Remi sent him here?!
What was this supposed to accomplish?
All he had seen it succeeding in doing for the last 2 weeks was boring himself.
He needed to be back in Neigeville, rather than stuck in this oppressive facility.

His mind wandering, his eyes fell on the assistant he was dawdling a good two paces behind.
He couldn't deny, no matter it's poisonously cheerful personality and voice, it was a pretty creature.
Alabaster skin, short, black hair.. A truly impressive set of legs..
Maybe a bit young for him, but he may still just -

Gah!
This is what happens when you're put in such a mind-numbingly lifeless place!
Calm down, man. If you were in Neigeville, you could get far better..

What was the word Remi had used, when first asking him to do this?
"Spartan"?
...
Yes, "Spartan".. It seemed a fine joke now.
He couldn't help but feel that even the Spartans themselves would rather die, than face this torture.

Snapping out of his trance for long enough to dodge a particularly menacing doorframe, he found himself inside a room just as drab as his own.
Well, except for the saving grace of a long, reinforced window overlooking a wintry courtyard.

A pimply faced male in a heavily starched labcoat greeted him.
Certainly not much of a looker, but he could tell he was rather passionate where it coun-

Gah!
No, no, no!
You're not going there. You're just going to sit tight, and stick it until you're relieved.
No need to pick up any worse habits while you're here.

"-Understand how long you've been waiting, but we finally feel confident enough to enter open testing."
Realising the scientist was expecting some kind if response from the awkward pause that followed, Raphael nodded, trying his best to look understanding and concerned.
Which, at a quarter to 10, wasn't very much.

"Well, in any case, the best excuses are exemplary ones..
So, if you'll kindly observe our example -" he droned, nasally, while gesturing out across the courtyard, before turning back to busy and order his underlings.

Looking out at the indicated spot, Raphael was suddenly aware of a rather large piece of machinery. Quite how he hadn't seen it earlier, he wasn't sure. Clearly his perception was being sapped along with his curiosity by his time here.

The scientist, glancing back only once to check that Raphael's attention was on the test subject, span back to his team, hunched over their experimental equipment.
He drawled "Ready?
And... Go!"

Raphael was awestruck, as the seemingly purposeless hulk of metal at once erupted into life, shuddering backwards under its own force.
This was what Remi had sent me here for?

He was still speechless, as the scientist strode proudly over and laid a congratulatory hand on his back.

...
Wait - That was too low to be his back!

We are currently at war with Evvies (elves) who were kicked out from the empire. This might change soon enough.
War probably isn't the right word. They're the ones who found the Symbiots, causing a major war which humanity almost lost. After we got saved by godlike beings and forcibly separated from Symbiot space they were the ones who opened a jumpgate to Stigmata, a symbiot-infested planet, and caused another war which we're currently fighting tooth and nail not to lose. The Church and the populace hates them because of the shiser they caused, stoning one to death in Update 0. My world, Asimov, has been blockaded by pirate ships which we've learned are from a newly found Evvis planet, but whether they're true pirates, privateers, or official Evvis fleet-members has yet to be discovered. They have a base on Asimov and seem fairly hostile (shooting missiles at nearby ships), but haven't attacked any fiefs on Asimov. Your Fist of Balieous fleet and the Imperial Nobility of Man fleet are currently protecting Asimov from further pirate attacks.

Political situation: four major groups of ~equal power: the Church (think catholics in medieval europe), the League (merchants with very good tech), the Imperium (gov which is fighting off symbiots), and the Houses (like houses from Dune).
Church: big and powerful with the support of the populace. Do not annoy at all costs, they brought House Klorin to its knees with a single gesture.
League: merchants and engineers. They've acted as handymen so far and have a private world. Have very advanced tech.
Imperium: powerful military and tech, not so much economy. Split into Regent (grand pooba, currently House Koriate), Garrison (planetary forces, mostly on Stigmata, led by House Hyppean), Fleet (big, awesome space guys), and the Eye (big brother is watching you, led by House Bossheaim).
Houses: split into Major (big, rich, powerful, 3 scepters each) and Minor (weak, numerous, 1 scepter each). Almost all player-led. The minor houses have banded together to form a Council of Minors so we aren't so weak on the political side of things. The Houses are the primary voting block. House Klorin has recently been disgraced by its leader causing mass death followed by being unable to enforce order in its territories, leading to selling stuff they don't own anymore.

Worlds:
E2: Ruined capital of humanity. Lost most of its populace to starvation, followed by plague, followed by more starvation, followed by a nuclear holocaust. Most Houses have holdings here and its still technically the capital.
Stigmata: Here be Symbiots. The Garrison and the Fleet are fighting tooth and nail to keep their stronghold here while picking off the Symbiot hives one by one. Much of it is radioactive.
Arrakis: entire planet is a giant plain broken by some lakes. Lots of oil. Several houses here
Incellia: one of the heaviest populated planets now. Cold. Several Houses
Hubbard: Right next to Stigmata. Lotsa water and coldness. Only two houses here
Clarke: cold and rocky islands. Several Houses here
Leagueheim + Errovus: hidden worlds that base the Guilds and the Church respectively.
Last and least: Asimov, my world. I'm the largest establishment here, but there're examples from across Imperial society. The Eye's secondary base is here, Koriate has a small fiefdom, the Church has recently settles an island, and the Apothecaries are based here. Lots of jungle and strange beasties. Evvis have a hidden settlement to the west

House Eekin removed itself from the Council of Minors on the basis that it objected to some of our initiatives. House Eekin is, of course, always welcome to rejoin and has a standing invitation to do so, and if you want to take it up just PM Kyzarc Fotjage.

Why did eekin leave the CoM again?

Why did eekin leave the CoM again?

I don't think you ever knew in the first place. :p

I had a rather informative message from an ally of mine. I could go through all my emails to look for it, but I was kinda hoping someone would save me the time and effort?

Why did eekin leave the CoM again?

I'm not sure they made it public. Searching "House Eekin is leaving the CoM" in the Council of Minors social group may give details to the members of this group.
However, you'll actually get more information from the thread itself:
There is the announcement here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10119346&postcount=755):
House Eekin feels the CoM has betrayed their founding principles, we will not list them here in respect of the current members but we have left the CoM and will no longer be affiliated with such a corrupt organization.
This was followed by more explanations (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10119385&postcount=758).
I dare say it was all due to Naprous's diplomacy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10119439&postcount=765) in the first place.

We would appreciate if Sir Mortimer would refrain from besmirching the honour of the late Cathrinn Naprous.

She saved the entire population of Errovus Secundus from an unimaginable horror, and, as a result, her very soul was purified through her baptism of Inquisitorial fire.

If Sir Mortimer would care to match such feats, he is free to try.

- Remi

EDIT: Disregard this. IC cannot into OOC. :cringe:

You also would owe me 3 mf for tiding your over in the Council of Minors Subsidy. No pressure. (Yet)

We would appreciate if Sir Mortimer would refrain from besmirching the honour of the late Cathrinn Naprous.

She saved the entire population of Errovus Secundus from an unimaginable horror, and, as a result, her very soul was purified through her baptism of Inquisitorial fire.

If Sir Mortimer would care to match such feats, he is free to try.

- Remi

When a post says "searching in the social group", it's pretty obviously OOC. So please. I was trying to be helpful to a new player by providing all relevant posts. Now, if you have evidence it's not Toteone's heavy handed diplomacy that led Eekin out of the council, do provide it.

You also would owe me 3 mf for tiding your over in the Council of Minors Subsidy. No pressure. (Yet)

Who are you talking to?

When a post says "searching in the social group", it's pretty obviously OOC. So please. I was trying to be helpful to a new player by providing all relevant posts. Now, if you have evidence it's not Toteone's heavy handed diplomacy that led Eekin out of the council, do provide it.

OOC: With all the hate surrounding Naprous at that time, whenever it's brought up I assume it's IC.
It's simply easier for me to believe fear of the Church is orchestrating your yapping, rather than actual discontent. :p

Contemplations of Jyut Texier as he awaits the jump from Errovus Secondus to Hubbard

Jyut Texier sat on his wooden throne. The crimson trappings draped over the arms and onto the floor, blending into a carpet, a green circle surrounding the chair. It was almost just like home on that Cruiser, just more exciting, perhaps. He had never been to Stigmata. In fact, he had only left the polluted air, filthy steel towers and briny marshes of Errovus Secondus twice since he had arrived there as a child from Clarke. Indeed, most great nobles spent their lives buffeted with the same winds and breathed the same air every day of their lives. Now, though, Jyut Texier had his chance to see the Imperium and to render it his duty to serve it with his whole strength, mind and soul.

He began to contemplate the past occasions when he had been away from Errovus Secondus.

Last time, I went to Assimov, eight years ago, when I was Eye commander. It was a boring job, really; nothing happened at all. It just involved sitting around in this tower room where nothing could be seen because of the height of the trees, and receiving and collating intelligence reports of very little importance. What did we find out when I was Eye Commander? To be honest, I can't remember. Let me think. Something about the Patriarch Barbatos being older than the Soul Wars. Oh, and there was the matter of Elves passing through the jumpgate and not coming out anywhere. Trivialities. The Fleet command has been far more lively already; I think in just the last two weeks I've been here waiting for the gate to open I've opened communications with a majority of all the sceptres there are, on Texier or Fleet business. Evem that elf pirate - wait, did I say that out loud? No, don't think so. But Assimov, it was a great place in its own way. I "borrowed" a small armoured helicopter all for myself during my days off and cruised over the treetops. It was great fun. Probably outrageously dangerous actually. But who cares, I'm alive and well, not to mention practically immortal, and I'm on a brand new Cruiser heading straight for Stigmata. I'm talking to myself again, aren't I? Oh damn, now I'm asking an imaginary friend whether I'm talking to myself...

He picked himself up from his throne and walked around the room. His wooden throne on the shiny floor, the green carpet amid the silvery, glistening reflection of the light from the jumpgate - as it slowly came to life and cast its eery beams of supernatural light in through the window of his newly-adopted throne-room onto that floor - was quite a fine sight. Against one of the walls stood the ancient grandfather clock of House Texier. As he admired it in its position, an artifact of a bygone age in surroundings of unparalleled modernity and advancement, he grew tired. It was five minutes until the jump started; time would freeze for him shortly. He walked slowly back to his throne, reclined upon it and collapsed its arm with a gentle push in the right place; the crimson fabric remoulded itself into a thick, soft and luxurious duvet, and he thought back to his teenage years.

I remember this; it was most beautiful place I ever saw, but yet the most tragic of journeys. We went to Incellia, to the Klorin fief there, just me and my uncle, to negotiate peace with and surrender our little fief on Incellia to that madman Kawalen. How sane and reasonable he seemed at the time! Not so to my uncle, though. Maybe old Uncle Riustyi was onto something. I loved him very much, but he had his flaws. He was never much of a diplomat; he could never see that there were times when one had to give way graciously. I'm not even quite sure what happened back then on Incellia. I was a teenager so many years ago, even if you wouldn't have thought so just through looking at me. I remember how proud they were of me when I returned home with the sceptre in my hand having convinced Kawalen to let me have it, Pancreator knows how, and how sad they all were - and how miserable I was too - to think that my Uncle had perished right there despite a safe-conduct, and that he had been assassinated by an agent from the Killgore, who, I'm told, were apparently determined that we should not come to terms with the Klorin because that might allow us to hold our position on Clarke. May the Pancreator ever take his divine vengeance on the revengeful and the cynical! But how beautiful Incellia was! I remember that the place was delightful then in midwinter, delightful beyond measure, delightful beyond comparison. Snow cascaded around the turrets of the Palace, and I saw the serf children playing in the fields, making snowmen and throwing balls of snow at each other that hit their coats, made of warm skins, not of the awful squalid rags you find on serfs on Errovus Secondus, and shattered into hundreds of powdery snowflakes that scattered and blended back into the ground. How I wished I had grown up there, and not among the rocky islands, unrelenting seas and raging wind and rain of Clarke! I even saw the Library of Amur, and went in there and read a book called "Tales of the Republic" in a cosy alcove in the wood-panelled wall, sniffing the scent of the ancient parchment and inhaling, it seemed, the spirit of centuries of the heritage of mankind, until I saw an Inquisitor coming round the corner. Books about the Republic written by a gnome were likely heretical, I supposed. Am I speaking to myself again? Well, no inquisitors listening in here, I suppose. If there are, so be it. But there aren't any.

Jyut surreptitiously made a quick prayer for the Avestites (out of a combination of habit and piety), then followed it up as he always did with prayers for the Imperium, and then looked outside. The jumpgate was ablaze with pulsating beams of light. Jyut prayed quickly for a safe journey for himself, as he began to recollect his childhood on Clarke, and lay back down on the throne, with his eyes fixed on the ancient and wonderful clock.

That clock stood over the head of my bed in my childhood. I can still see the mark about halfway up, up to where the head of the bed prevented the colour of the varnished wood from fading and gathering dirt. I can remember how many times I was told of its magical properties. Maybe in a place like Stigmata it'll come back to life again. Then again, I reckon in my more logical thoughts that we were playing pretend back then, but I wish with all my mind that it was real. They taught me a bit of thaumaturgy when I was sick once, or were they playing pretend? No-one plays pretend in front of me these days except the court Masque and the Jester, and these days I can never be sick. I miss both of them sometimes. Maybe it was real thaumaturgy though. They taught me to block out the whole world so all I could hear is the sound of the clock. In a moment, the ship's alarm is going to ring, loud and shrill, just before we go through the jumpgate precisely thirty seconds after three o'clock. Maybe I can block it out with that old thaumaturgy, and hear the beautiful chiming of the bell in the clock over the sound of the siren?

Jyut did not have any way of knowing if his thaumaturgy had worked, or if it had been but play, or if he had ever actually said the right words; time stopped for him, and the throne-room and the bright pulsating jumpgate faded to nothingness. In his imagination, though, at least, he had just heard the clock strike for the third time.

Who are you talking to?

House Eekin.

assassinated by an agent from the Killgore

Wait

What?

Eighty or ninety years ago or so. :p When you were at war with us and going on your famous destroy-everyone-else's-fiefs spree.

Mortimer shouted.
His bodyguard entered the room, wary.
"It's nothing, Aymeric. The nightmare. Again. As always. Go back to your duty."

As the guard closed the door, Mortimer rose from his bed. He unwrapped the prayer carpet he always kept nearby and started praying with a fervor most priests, most monks, most fanatics would have been hard-pressed to equal.
He prayed, hoping the Pancreator would let him have a few nights of mercy. Even a single night. During his more than hundred years of life, Mortimer had rarely slept well. Often, far too often, the nightmare would awaken him, like this night. Recently, the Pancreator had been good with him, and he had managed to sleep well up to two or even three nights in a row. Maybe, if he prayed more, Mortimer could have a full week of restful sleep? Sometime?
Of sleep without this nightmare.

Some scientists - or were they charlatans? - said that dreams were a process of the brain in which it sorted out all the events of the past, the various memories, in order to better organise itself.
If they were right, then it ment that the nightmare was, at least in part, made of memories. Maybe they were right. Maybe it was true.
It had been so long ago that Mortimer didn't remember the facts. He only remembered the neverending dream.

He knew the year. It was 2178. Clarke had finally been purged of the symbiots who used to thrive underwater. The combined powers of 'Als, Eekin, Query and Texier fleets had delt a final blow to the monsters, although the cost had been harsh. Most of the thaumaturgs of the planet, including many of the 'Als, Klorin and Tsedeq foremost nobles, had died in the battle. In order to destroy the last hive in the abysses of the oceans of Clarke, they had sacrificed themselves, diving deep into the darkness, strengthening the hulls of their submarines until they could no longer maintain the ships, and then unleashed all the power they had left to destroy the hive.
Mortimer prayed to thank the Pancreator for this success, once again. It had been a gamble. Had the mages failed, the planet would have been left mostly defenseless. Monstrous leviathans and infested whales would have been seen again under the seas, and amphibious mosntrosities would have climbed upon the islands. And Clarke would have fallen. But the gamble had succeeded.

In his dream, Mortimer was mourning the loss of his father, grand thaumatug Abashi Tormah Tsedeq, who had been in one of the 'Als submarines, leading the attack.
And then IT happened. Mortimer didn't remember the facts. He only remembered the dream. The nightmare. He didn't know, in reality, how it had happened. But...
He kept dreaming of the weird, wet being that emerged from the waters. It was vaguely humanoid, and yet resembled a fish. Its head was the epitome of ugliness. It looked like a huge bowl with tiny eyes and a small mouth full of tiny, pointy teeth. Inside the bowl danced many colored lights. The transcendental held something in its paw. It advanced towards Mortimer, grabbed his arm, pryed his hand open, and the Kappa's long-nailed fingers forced the sceptre into Mortimer's hand.
Mortimer always shouted and awoke at this point.

Mortimer shrugged, and prayed, reciting the old litany one more time, as he had done, almost every night for more than a century.
"Protect us from evil, You who created all
Enlighten us, that we may fight your foes.
Bring us strength and answer your servants' call.
To your enemies, send pain and deadly throes..."
The prayer went on and on, and Mortimer felt comfort as he prayed.

He had faith.
He knew he couldn't understand why the Pancreator had chosen this way to spare mankind. Why use the abhorred transcendentals to bring us sceptres? Why let them seal us from the rest of His creatures? How could he pretend he could understand? He could not. Noone could, probably not even Barbatos himself.
But the Pancreator had chosen the least understandable way to save His people, to bring sceptres to mankind and nobility. He had chosen him, Mortimer, a forty-year old man, to be the receptacle of one of His tools.
And about a century and a half later, the Pancreator, through his strange ways, had given him the opportunity to obtain another sceptre. One from a priest in disgrace! Mortimer prayed. What did the Pancreator want of him? Surely he couldn't ignore the message He had sent him. But what to do? Give it back to the once-interdicted house who refused to repair the evil they had done and didn't honor their dues? Give it to those who had suffered most, to those who had helped free Clarke from the symbiots? Or give it to one of those scores of sons he had sired in his so long life, that he might not see this one die?
Mortimer prayed for counsel, for advise, as he did every night.

And, most of all, he prayed for a dreamless night.

If I could ask Wiki contributors Not to add events into wiki that have not happened yet. I'm talking about result of Kilgore-Hyppean conflict, which, technically has been resolved but in reality will not be resolved before the update.

Also, I added all missing minor-major houses into wiki as well as all missing planets. Feel free to alter your houses :)

EDIT
@Immac
Could you please clarify what is "republic" in your opinion? So, we all would have same understanding of the thing.

Could you make that wiki register-only, then you could see who edits what.

OOC - Very impressive. :p

Double gold-star to you! :D

OOC - Very impressive. :p

Double gold-star to you! :D

All I'm doing is moving info from in thread directly to Wiki. It'll need a lot of work to detail out useful info. For an example, have "Fiefdom" subsection in every nations wiki page, so we could see on what planet(s) this house is.

We also need dates for who was in charge of Imperial positions and for how long.

How do i make it registrer only?

How do i make it registrer only?

I'm not sure, but Probably by searching Special:ListUsers and blocking default user, while still allowing that user to register and access wikia?

A republic is a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, retain supreme control over the government.

This is a republic.

Stop trying to say it isn't.

If I could ask Wiki contributors Not to add events into wiki that have not happened yet. I'm talking about result of Kilgore-Hyppean conflict, which, technically has been resolved but in reality will not be resolved before the update.

Also, I added all missing minor-major houses into wiki as well as all missing planets. Feel free to alter your houses :)

EDIT
@Immac
Could you please clarify what is "republic" in your opinion? So, we all would have same understanding of the thing.

Could you make that wiki register-only, then you could see who edits what.
Fine. Good for you!
I will take them out I guess. However, since they are probably not worth their own page until we flesh out the "Normal" pages, those type of "Events/Conflict" tickers would be usefull.

A republic is a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, retain supreme control over the government.
This is a republic.

Stop trying to say it isn't.
Republic? Nah, this is an Oligarchy. Republic implies that the peasants have some control over the government, not just the noblemen. If medieval Europe is anything to go by the noblemen definitely aren't a significant portion of the population number-wise.

Fine. Good for you!
I will take them out I guess. However, since they are probably not worth their own page until we flesh out the "Normal" pages, those type of "Events/Conflict" tickers would be usefull.

They are useful! Very useful! But we don't know what are end results of these deals for an example.

I see republic as a place where nobles come together and vote everything. I see monarchy&regency as a place where nobles choose one guy to lead over certain amount of time. And then don't vote or suggest lets vote this.

The fact that some kind of "nobility" have a significant Political influence means that it is not a republic.

Guiss Texier, First Admiral, speaks to Endymion Texier, Second Admiral, on board a cruiser sailing from High Texier to the old southern Authority continent

Bloody hell, Endy, get me a better chair; what half-wit of a serf gave me this stupid wooden stool to sit on? Ugh, and why am I, the High Admiral of the Texier Fleet, stuck on this tinpot of a cruiser built by amateur shipwrights? And have you ever seen such awful weather on E2? The air stinks as normal, but it's raining acid so bad all the sailors, those incompetent, cowardly plebs, have come in for high tea an hour early! Whoever heard of not providing sailors with decent raincoats? Soon as I get back in the dry I'm sacking that quartermaster. Besides, Jyut's going senile specially ordering that all the sailors get high tea. Next thing you know it'll be cake rations. Sceptres don't preserve the brain, eh, Endy? You know, I'm getting old; I'm not up to gallivanting around these damn new-fangled ship things. We were far better off when we left this to the people who actually knew how to steer these things. Ahoy there, captain, watch out for that rock! Pancreator, Endy, whyever did we hire that ? And why the hell did we both get put on his ship? Putting the Grand Admiral and the Second Admiral on the same ship with a captain that can't steer was a cunning idea, I must say. Besides, Endy, why the hell are we going to this place anyway? Kelter, or the other one, whatever she was called, oh well, I can never remember the names of women, especially not ones with foreign names, bombed it and it's a complete shithole all round, to be honest. I suppose you've been briefed on what we do when we get there, right? We bombard a marsh for a couple of months till all the guerillas surrender. Isn't it ridiculous? Isn't it such a complete waste of time? Then the fleet's going home and leaving me there. I mean, honestly, what did I do to deserve it? I haven't left the family silver lying around, I haven't been torturing Jyut's cats lately, and I haven't even hidden his sceptre for months. Hrm, well, anyway, at least I get to resign my commission when we've finished this mission. Just think, Endy, you'll be second-fiddle in the Texier house at last! I expect you'll do a better job of it than I ever did, and years afterwards people'll be calling you the saviour of your house or something, and I'll be all forgotten along with the last few deputies. Knowing my luck you'll find a spare sceptre under Jyut's bed the day after I've discharged my command... I can just hear it, Endymion Texier, Second Patriarch of Texier. Anyone would have thought my old brother gave you that name on purpose so you'd be immortal and youthful for ever, and so dozy you've already fallen asleep while I was talking. Oh well, I'm too tired to keep on going like this, gallivanting around these seas full of old pesticide and now schrapnel. I'll be glad to be done with being chief handyman for the family. Well, have a nice snooze, you dozy bastard.



OOC:
Guiss Texier: martial, tank-commander, temper (E2)
is being replaced after this turn by
Endymion Texier: academic, tactician, charismatic, pious, quickly tired (E2)

If the autocensor hadn't been there I might have done a better job of that. :p

Personally the only reason for the nobility to vote is the appointment/removal of a Regent and otherwise it would need to be a seriously extreme circumstance.

Lord Guy, Fye Clan, The Query

Republic? Nah, this is an Oligarchy. Republic implies that the peasants have some control over the government, not just the noblemen. If medieval Europe is anything to go by the noblemen definitely aren't a significant portion of the population number-wise.

I think you were misunderstanding Ken. What he meant was that the definition he provided is what a Republic is, as opposed to NW's own personal interpretation of Republicanism which none of us agree with (:p). He didn't mean the Empire itself is a republic.

But for the record the Empire is an elective monarchy not an oligarchy.

Nitpicking:

I've been checking dates to establish a timeline on the wiki in the history section (http://immacunesiib.wikia.com/wiki/History#Timeline).
I hit some discrepancies:
Terrier-class destroyers, rangeers and heavy rangers have creation dates in the 2900 range, which belongs to a far future.
2217: Glass Scalpel commandos designed by Imperial Eye
When the Garrison has been founded in 2242. The Eye apparently existed before the empire? This would make it the oldest of all the institutions, oldest than the Regency itself. Is it the case, or is that just an error in the creation date and the eye was founded after the Evvis took Stigmata?

OOC: I have written some detail into the House Texier article. If anyone objects to my account of the war on Clarke or previous nature of Texier's fiefdoms as a royal house on Incellia and Arrakis, please say and I shall amend the article. I have put the blame for our destruction (by 2220) on a coalition of the Killgore, Klorin, 'Als, and Tsedeq.

IC:

All houses that have not voted subsidies to the Garrison in the Council of Minors should please come and vote on the issue as soon as possible.

[Name of the Event][Years][Italicized: Type (Conflict, Project, Localized, Spread Out, ect)]
[Participant(And describe any special way such as only economic support, joined later ect)]
[Cause/Cost]
[Losses (Conflicts)]
[Details]
[Results(Treaties)]
How I format my Conflicts/Events things.

Nitpicking:

I've been checking dates to establish a timeline on the wiki in the history section (http://immacunesiib.wikia.com/wiki/History#Timeline).
I hit some discrepancies:
Terrier-class destroyers, rangeers and heavy rangers have creation dates in the 2900 range, which belongs to a far future.
2217: Glass Scalpel commandos designed by Imperial Eye
When the Garrison has been founded in 2242. The Eye apparently existed before the empire? This would make it the oldest of all the institutions, oldest than the Regency itself. Is it the case, or is that just an error in the creation date and the eye was founded after the Evvis took Stigmata?
Fixed?


Also a HUGE thank you to everyone who has contributed to the wiki. You will not be forgotten when story rewards are distributed.


If you havn't visited the WIKI yet, why not?

Fixed?
Still 2319 for heavy rangers when we're in 2305.

OOC: It's quite simple, Cesare.

They were sent back from the future to kill John Connor.

OOC: It's quite simple, Cesare.

They were sent back from the future to kill JohnPhil Connor.

:D :mischief: :ar15:

Could you put a link to the wiki in your sig Immac?

there already was one.

Would everyone agree if I/we use following format for description of Houses in wiki:


Overview (copy of text from first page stats AND some additional info for more "modern" description)
ACCs (with short description, link to separate page for longer description)
Culture (short overview, for more specific history hyperlink to history page or religion page)
Government (if you wish to describe it)
Fiefdoms (Short description of on what planet this house is on and/or what fiefdoms belong(ed) to them and what are main trade articles/money makers of their fief)
Recent History (short overview, for more detailed history create separate page that is named "House Name History" for an example House Hyppean History)
Misc What ever else you want to include.
If someone wants to add their view of some house, then this the place, just name it (for an example) "House Hyppean view of Sanctious'Als".

This would not make wiki entry bloated and easier to understand than just one big wall of text. Because I am NOT going to read all big wall of text if I just want to know more about my new trading partner.

I'm against having a separate page for detailed history; there's no good reason why we can't keep all that in one page, and, just as long as it's clearly marked, there's no reason why the reader can't just skip it.

I incline towards thinking that it's better to have all the articles in chronological order so that we have the present state of the House in question at the bottom of the post; that makes it easier to edit little by little as the NES continues and is a bit more logical IMO, and it allows whoever's reading to just skip the historical body of the article if they want and get to the point.

Sunday January 22, 2005
The snow fell on the streets of Caseri, the low winter sun glowing dimly behind the clouds. The thick, lure white snow blanketed the city.

And the crowds were not deterred. Chanting, shouting, screaming, the crowds marched into the city, calling for the fall of the heretic abominations that ruled this land. At the forefront of the mob, a tall priest with a large book and a tall staff, quietly reciting hymns and verses, a point of quit in a sea of noise.

As the crowd approached the new Triumphal Arch, the crowd faltered as figures emerged silently into the break in the snow under the Arch. The mounted police stopped under the arch, goggles staring from balaclavad faces, ushankas and heavy winter cloths covering any armour. All had weapons, projectile guns, lazguns and a plasma rifle propped on hips or thighs, not pointed towards the crowd, but full of menace. Seeing the mounted forces, the priest stops and turn to face the crowd.

“Children of the Pancreator, caution! Conflict and death is not the way!”

“Screw that!” a man shouts, forcing to the front, flame-gun in hand. “Those bastard mutants aren’t going going to listen to quite protests! We need to make them!”

As a cheer goes up, the mounted force move across beneath the arch, leaving the sight of the crowd.

“See how they run! They no they can’t fight all of us!” the man shouts, and the cheering crowd surges forward, crossing under the arch, entering the grand square before the palace. As the mob pours into the square, thought, the cheers, chants and shouts fade.

Arrayed across the opposite of the square, before the palace; a row of figures, clad in bulky powered armour, weapons levelled. Behind them, several rows of ordinary infantry, as well as tanks and mobile guns. For a moment, is quite of the crowd stops, expanding along the edges, many moving into a nearby garden. Then a man, bare-faced to show his identity as a human, steps out from behind the row of soldiers.

“Attention citizens!” he shouts through a megaphone, “This is an unlawful gathering! Return to your homes immediately and there will be no repercussions! Persist, and use of force has been authorized!”

At that soldier level their weapons, and the protesters waver. They know their duty is righteous and proper, but are concerned by the array of weapons opposing them. Then the man with the flame-gun steps forward.

“Kill the servants of the abominations!”

For a moment the cheer goes up and the crowd surges forward. Then the shouts are drowned with the roar of guns.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On January 22, 2005, approximately 5000 citizens and workers when on strike and marched on the new Noble Palace in Caseri. Protesters were varied in agenda, including the devout of faith marching against the “mutant” Thanan nobles, and liberalist and socialist seeking a return to a style of rule from the days of the republic. The initial riot-breaking killed approximately half the protesters, and sparked a wave of protests against the greater house that the House of Thana was then part of. Approximately 12000 citizens were killed in Incilian holding alone.

OOC: Powered armour?
In 2005?
...
Man, the Republic really WAS advanced! :mischief:

I was just reading some of the old pre-thread. I must say, what a wealth of miscellaneous information and detail there is there on important houses, especially the royal houses (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8742169#post8742169, all down that page), and a lot of good background stuff there and in the other two threads has been somewhat ignored so far. In my opinion, this should all be going into the Wiki. What do people think about that?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=346582

Hahaaa I forgot about this:

The House of Holy Gate

The House of Holy Gate are a Noble House, but also a denomination within the Orthodox Church which follows the teachings of Saint Sabel. These teachings focus most specifically on the Book of Sabel, which details the Saint's epic journey through Hell to return her people to the world of the living, culminating in her tragic self-sacrifice to allow them to escape the forces of the Devil. There are some rumours of some members being indoctrinated with other, ''lost'' books written by the hand of Sabel after the Bannor had escaped, but most acknowledge that these rumours as mere misconception caused by insufficient study of the scriptures. After all, everyone knows Saint Sabel was killed by the brutal pack of hell hounds that had pursued the Bannor throughout the later part of their journey.

Some claim that the noble families of the House of Holy Gate can trace their ancestry back to the heroic Bannor themselves. However many doubt the truth of this, and claim that even if it was true the bloodlines are by now so watered down with the ignoble and treacherous blood of lesser human races that the distant Bannor heritage of Holy Gate counts for little in the modern day.

Regardless, the stories of the proud, if ceremonial, Bannor Ancestry live on in the fiefs and families. Most written documentation besides the religious scripture of the Church was destroyed during the Soul Wars and later catastrophic events, so the exact historical accuracy of the stories is perhaps debateable. However much of the clergy vouch for the Bannor's great struggle, single-handedly defending Errovus from horde after horde of demonic forces, vanquishing, in turn, the Fire-Orcs, Undead, and finally the hideous monstrosities known only as ''Syrii''.

Perhaps the most favourite story in the hearts of the people is the legendary epic known as the ''Purging of Veherra Sublime''. This is the story of the Bannor preparing a great armada of ships, and sailing their blessed armies half way around the world to strike the unsuspecting ''Buzzing Island'', named after the peculiar buzzing sound of the flies which permanently surrounded the inhabitants of the island. A battle of epic proportions ensued between the Bannor legionaries and the demonic Syrii, and legdend has it that in the heat of the battle, Saint Sabel herself returned from the dead in the form of an Angel to lead the assault on the fleeing cow-men. Once the resistance of the enemy had been broken the Bannor army marched inland, and personally put to death every last Syrii, burning their settlements and the surrounding forests to the ground. This is believed to be one of the primary causes of the ''Soul War'' after politicians associated with the ''Alliance of South Edsunland'' and the ''Confederate Coalition (of Evil)'' declared the purging of evil to be unacceptable ''genocide''. Regardless of such precise and insignificant details, one more race of demons had been destroyed, and an insufferable buzzing sound had been firmly extinguished.

The Legends of Bannor inspire a sense of near fanatical faith and loyalty in the serfs of Holy Gate, who perform the ancient tales in the form of drama at every major festival.

The Holy Gate has always been a close ally of the Church, aligning closely with their policies regarding heretic sciences and space exploration. The Noble House itself is commanded by a small number of influential families, who nominate a ''Patriarch'' to decide the overarching policy of the Holy Gate. The Patriarch rules for life, or until each of the families is in agreement that he or she should stand down.

The House of Holy Gate is based on the planet of Incillla, where they have large-scale farming and commercial fishing operations. The Holy Gate also possess a smaller number of fiefs on the planet of Clarke where they process oil, this is largely exported to Incilla and Errovus Secundus, where Holy Gate has a small Enclave used for diplomatic operations.

--

Ahh FFHNES II.. Good times.

If someone who was in FFHNES II and ImmacuNES IIA could explain the premise of this whole world quite concisely in terms of those two NESes, on the Wiki or here, I must say I think it would be very enlightening for people like me who really haven't a clue about FFH or the genesis of this universe or anything, and would allow more depth to the story for the use of the casual lurker and underinformed player alike. :p Could anyone possibly offer to write a summary?

(Immac, Eko, thomas, Seon, merciary if he's lurking, Kyzarc, Darksaber?)

I tried to run Emperor of the Fading Suns before but it didn’t go very far. This is my second attempt. Because of the changes between that game and this one, I would suggest you NOT read that first attempt because the changes may confuse you regarding the rules of this game. No rules from that last game carry over to this game unless specifically specified.
From first page.

Altho yes, it is very informative :)

Well, that's a link to the game thread. There's a big difference between the largely useless game thread (which is an account of events that mostly didn't happen) and the old pre-thread (which is an account of background that presumably did actually happen and is central to the premise of the NES and the institutions of the Known Worlds). Besides, I'm not talking about rules but about background. :)

Well, that's a link to the game thread. There's a big difference between the largely useless game thread (which is an account of events that mostly didn't happen) and the old pre-thread (which is an account of background that presumably did actually happen and is central to the premise of the NES and the institutions of the Known Worlds).

Buuuut ... I've already made Garrik a fierce man, not gnoll.

And Tenith, for me and in my stories, is female, not male :)

Altho having gnolls in my pop is awesome and I'll probably use it.

I can do that, I guess...

Would take a bit though.

I can do that, I guess...

Would take a bit though.

Yes please! :D

Buuuut ... I've already made Garrik a fierce man, not gnoll.

And Tenith, for me and in my stories, is female, not male :)

Altho having gnolls in my pop is awesome and I'll probably use it.

OOC: The way I wrote it you do have a force of gnolls, the Steel Fang commandos are all gnolls. Though I'm a bit sad Garrik isn't a gnoll, but overall I'm very happy with how you played the Hyppeans.

OOC: The way I wrote it you do have a force of gnolls, the Steel Fang commandos are all gnolls. Though I'm a bit sad Garrik isn't a gnoll, but overall I'm very happy with how you played the Hyppeans.

You are not dead! I'm glad! And sure, my Steel Fangs can be Gnolls.
You back in the game? Want Hyppean back? (I'm quite enjoying being major house altho I'm not good at being a bully) Wanna give me advice at very least how common is horse/riding culture in modern Hyppea?

Oh no you can keep them, I wouldn't knock someone out of a game. I'd say the horse riding is still very popular, especially with traditionalist, as they are descendants of the Hippus. Though I'd figure that many of the younger aristocrats have probably taken a fancy to airplanes rather than riding on horses. And for the masses violent sports are the favored past time, hence the massive stadium in the capital.