Why are we always dominated by this god-view which is so unrealistic? why isn't it like a RPG where you follow your leader around your city, talking to your people etc. Yes i realise this will make things diffcult with multiple cities but that's like it was in real lfe! It was ok for a king to manage a single city but when a city state expanded to multiple settlements, things got more difficult and new ways of ruling needed to used.

In other words, make CIV 6 more realistic! more like Simlife / totalwar.

BTW, while I'm here, why so much more production from hills compared to flat land???? makes no sense, get rid of it!

That's about it, except, MERRY X-mas! :D

oooo

That would be completely impractical for this kind of game.

Trollers gonna troll, guys. :rolleyes:
Calling someone a troll is seen as trolling itself.

That would be an entirely different game.

What was wrong with the old text adventure interface? Wouldn't eat machine resources like the bloatware we're playing now:

>BUILD WARRIOR IN ATHENS

YOUR WARRIOR IN ATHENS WILL BE BUILT IN 4 TURNS

>

YOUR WARRIOR IN ATHENS WILL BE BUILT IN 3 TURNS

>

YOUR WARRIOR IN ATHENS WILL BE BUILT IN 2 TURNS

>

YOUR WARRIOR IN ATHENS WILL BE BUILT IN 1 TURN

>

ATHENS HAS BUILT A WARRIOR

>MOVE WARRIOR NORTH FROM ATHENS

YOUR WARRIOR SEES COWS

>INV

YOU HAVE:

2 CITIES
3 WARRIORS
1 SETTLER

Etc...

Would run real fast, you could have totally enormous maps.

(OK, OK, and what was wrong with drawing the map up in pencil on an A3 sheet [1]? Quite immersive really...)

[1] Kidding apart, remember Lords of Midnight anyone? You ended up doing just this.

And Merry Xmas to the OP and all good Civvers, too. :)

This is a sarcastic jab at those who criticise aspects of the game for not being realistic enough, isn't it?

This is a sarcastic jab at those who criticise aspects of the game for not being realistic enough, isn't it?

Actually, I've chosen to read it as a bit of fun. C'mon, it is Xmas, after all...

It would force players to use their memories more .. remember what that is ..??? Plus they would need to rely on reports from messagers, which could be delayed etc

.

Hey, OP, give Mount and Blade: Warband a try.

I know what you mean though, I've been waiting for a game with the kind of strategic depth of a civ game from the first person perspective forever. It wouldn't even be that hard to do, so many things would be abstracted and 'hidden' behind managers or out of sight from your current position, which makes for a much less GPU intensive game in relation to how much you're throwing at the CPU.

I've actually been considering modding Warband with a focus of making the game more civ-like since it's the closest thing out there right now to this concept.

This is a sarcastic jab at those who criticise aspects of the game for not being realistic enough, isn't it?

I think it is, and I am one of them, and I can't STAND IT!! I am going to blow a gasket!!

Just kidding Merry Christmas. I hope you all get Civ Rev and pie.

It would force players to use their memories more .. remember what that is ..??? Plus they would need to rely on reports from messagers, which could be delayed etc

.

Actually I like the idea, with the proviso that no-one comes by to challenge me to single combat, don't do real-time, reflexes are crap.

On that similar sort of line, I'd also like to see an interstellar strategy game that worked with real physics, i.e. light speed or slower. In fact, Civ is a bit like that, in that it takes years for units to cross a few tiles - but *communication* is instantaneous even back in the Bronze Age. It'd be a different matter if the message packets took years to get to other worlds - and to your units that were underway, and back from them, of course.

Basically, lots more fun with the fog of war.

Hey, OP, give Mount and Blade: Warband a try.

I know what you mean though, I've been waiting for a game with the kind of strategic depth of a civ game from the first person perspective forever. It wouldn't even be that hard to do, so many things would be abstracted and 'hidden' behind managers or out of sight from your current position, which makes for a much less GPU intensive game in relation to how much you're throwing at the CPU.

I've actually been considering modding Warband with a focus of making the game more civ-like since it's the closest thing out there right now to this concept.

Will have to give Warband a try.

Trouble is, I feel the only way to distinguish this from Civ-types would be to make reports 'fuzzy'. Like 'Hey, boss, there's some stuff away to the northeast sort of, shall we have a look or maybe not?'. (I'm not quite sure how it would work, really.) Otherwise you might as well provide an exact map and you're back in a map-driven game again.

Lords of Midnight, which I referred to earlier, was a fine old British game that ran on 8-bit machines (like the Spectrum) - it relates to this idea, but, as I said, who is going to be forced to draw up maps in pencil when the machine could do it for you? It just seems cruel.

Trouble is, I feel the only way to distinguish this from Civ-types would be to make reports 'fuzzy'. Like 'Hey, boss, there's some stuff away to the northeast sort of, shall we have a look or maybe not?'. (I'm not quite sure how it would work, really.) Otherwise you might as well provide an exact map and you're back in a map-driven game again.

That's what makes it genius though, I could see it being a problem for all the control freaks, but I think that 'Fuzziness' is what would make it fun. Like real life, you're given chaos and have to do your best to control it.

Maybe your messenger will be killed on his way to issue new orders to one of your armies? Shoulda had better patrols on your roads!

Maybe one of your book keepers sucks at math, or just doesn't care that much and screws up some of your inventory numbers. keeping an eye out for someone more skilled and paying him well would alleviate this.

Maybe some info from a spy master was fed to an agent as disinfo from a rival?

ect...

Pretty much all strategy games to date have all been number and system games, you're given raw data, and there's usually a 100% efficient solution or strategy to aim for.

A game with a more human feel would be great imo, you're just a dude wandering about, trying to control a whole peoples, using others as intermediaries and subject to any and all complications that brings about. It would frustrate the hell out of most I'm sure, but I would love it.

In other words, make CIV 6 more realistic! more like Simlife / totalwar.



Totalwar has a top down empire view just like Civ on the strategic map. You can zoom right in to watch the tactical battles up close but I'd hardly call it first person or realistic. Pretty much a god view there as well.

Simlife? Let's not go there... :p

Actually, I've chosen to read it as a bit of fun. C'mon, it is Xmas, after all...

It's Christmas, actually, not Xmas. :p
And about the 3D thing - that would turn the whole thing upside down. Sorry but Civ has always been a looking-down-on-everything game.

It's Christmas, actually, not Xmas. :p
Off topic, but its exactly the same thing, X has been used to represent Christ for hundreds of years. Also its the winter solstice etc etc.

On topic: It would be a completely different game, the aerial view in Civ works very well for this type of game, and it doesn't need a lot of 3D graphics.

Why are we always dominated by this god-view which is so unrealistic?

Because it's a game. :)

why isn't it like a RPG where you follow your leader around your city, talking to your people etc.

Because at some point, your "tribe" will grow grow into a city of millions plus millions across the empire.

Yes i realise this will make things diffcult with multiple cities but that's like it was in real lfe! It was ok for a king to manage a single city but when a city state expanded to multiple settlements, things got more difficult and new ways of ruling needed to used.

You....have a good point.

In other words, make CIV 6 more realistic! more like Simlife / totalwar.

Given the amount of people RAGING about just 1UPT, something like this would result in a Revolutions mod-esque revolution. I don't even think Total War does the rpg thing.

Of course, the game you're talking about would be interesting to play. Just not civilization. A spinoff maybe? It sounds like it would lead to a Spore-level of hype.

BTW, while I'm here, why so much more production from hills compared to flat land???? makes no sense, get rid of it!

Mostly balance purposes.

And Happy Holidays to everyone and all that jazz.
-------

First person RPG shooters make me sick. I actually get a headache and become physically nauseous after about five minutes. I think it has to do with my body telling me I am sitting still while my eyes are trying to tell me I am moving throught the world. Anyway, I hope they don't move to the kind of view the op is suggesting. Given the choice between not playing and taking motion sickness drugs, I think I would have to stop playing.

First person RPG shooters make me sick. I actually get a headache and become physically nauseous after about five minutes. I think it has to do with my body telling me I am sitting still while my eyes are trying to tell me I am moving throught the world.

lol, Try playing one in a laptop in a moving car. You're sitting still, you're concentrating on motion in the game, while there's stuff rushing by in your peripheral vision. I have a really strong stomach, nothing motion-wise has ever made me sick, roller coasters are a cake walk. But something about that situation made me want to throw-up for a good couple hours.

First person RPG shooters make me sick. I actually get a headache and become physically nauseous after about five minutes. I think it has to do with my body telling me I am sitting still while my eyes are trying to tell me I am moving throught the world. Anyway, I hope they don't move to the kind of view the op is suggesting. Given the choice between not playing and taking motion sickness drugs, I think I would have to stop playing.

You might want to tinker with the settings then and make sure they are correct, Field of View and the correct refresh rate are often things that cause motion sickness for some people.

No one else here has ever thought about walking through your cities when looking at the Civ2 city view?

I just want to build my own palace again...

Because then we'd need those special glasses?

No one else here has ever thought about walking through your cities when looking at the Civ2 city view?

I have thought about it, more from CIV III where the buildings got placed somewhere. I wished I could place them and wish I could watch workers doing stuff (like from black and white and stronghold legends).

Stronghold Legends was awesome for that, you would see a guy get some wheat and take it somewhere, then it would be turned to flour and finally to bread or something. You could watch it all and it added up to your food count. That was pretty entertaining.

AN ending to the game where you toured your capital or something would be cool (when were things built, population images of various points in time, etc)

I have thought about it, more from CIV III where the buildings got placed somewhere. I wished I could place them and wish I could workers doing stuff (like from black and white and stronghold legends).

Stronghold Legends was awesome for that, you would see a guy get some wheat and take it somewhere, then it would be turned to flour and finally to bread or something. You could watch it all and it added up to your food count. That was pretty entertaining.

AN ending to the game where you toured your capital or something would be cool (when were things built, population images of various points in time, etc)

Urban planning, excellent. I like the idea of a game within the game where placement of buildings counted for something. It would have to be trade-offs, though, so a city might get a bonus in efficiency from placing a housing estate next to a factory, but get a deficit in happiness - for example, it depends on the game metrics. City specialisation could get really interesting.

Oops. I'm describing SimCity, sort of. But a whole bunch of CivSimCities embedded in a Civ game. (Then inside the buildings in the CivSimCities, there are bunches of CivSims looking for the bathroom as they usually do.) Micromanagement heaven (or hell).

Will have to give Warband a try.

Trouble is, I feel the only way to distinguish this from Civ-types would be to make reports 'fuzzy'. Like 'Hey, boss, there's some stuff away to the northeast sort of, shall we have a look or maybe not?'. (I'm not quite sure how it would work, really.) Otherwise you might as well provide an exact map and you're back in a map-driven game again.

Lords of Midnight, which I referred to earlier, was a fine old British game that ran on 8-bit machines (like the Spectrum) - it relates to this idea, but, as I said, who is going to be forced to draw up maps in pencil when the machine could do it for you? It just seems cruel.

That's exactly what i mean, if you get a report from a frightened farmer, you mght get "HUGE ENEMY ARMY HREADING THIS WAY!!!!! " :eek: :eek: :eek: .. but if the report comes from one of your trained scouts (rangers), you get "2 days ago, 30 Enemy Samnite raiders crossed the border at Brandymuck station and are stealing cattle, currently they are still rampaging, if we move quickly we might catch them. Farmers on the border regions are not very happy with you!"

Another beauty of a RPG type CIV is that you must rely on other characters (AI or players) to manage other cities in your empire. They might revolt if your too inept. I imagine 5-8 players, playing senators of the Roman Repulbic, while the opponents are senators / generals of the Republic of Carthage. etc

Sounds AWESOME!! :king:

oOOo

I wish I had some extra dollars lying around... cuz all this talk is making me wanna go back and play some old skool games... like Warcraft(?): Humans v. Orcs.... lotsa urban planning and great people... plus some really fun warmaking!! And I've been craving Castles lately.... talk about a great beer & pretzels game... building some cool defenses, watching your armies fight off barbarians, or even noble armies!!

Man.... that takes me back :lol:

That's exactly what i mean, if you get a report from a frightened farmer, you mght get "HUGE ENEMY ARMY HREADING THIS WAY!!!!! " :eek: :eek: :eek: .. but if the report comes from one of your trained scouts (rangers), you get "2 days ago, 30 Enemy Samnite raiders crossed the border at Brandymuck station and are stealing cattle, currently they are still rampaging, if we move quickly we might catch them. Farmers on the border regions are not very happy with you!"

Another beauty of a RPG type CIV is that you must rely on other characters (AI or players) to manage other cities in your empire. They might revolt if your too inept. I imagine 5-8 players, playing senators of the Roman Repulbic, while the opponents are senators / generals of the Republic of Carthage. etc

Sounds AWESOME!! :king:

oOOo

But not really Civilization.

Its a game I totally would play.

That's exactly what i mean, if you get a report from a frightened farmer, you mght get "HUGE ENEMY ARMY HREADING THIS WAY!!!!! " :eek: :eek: :eek: .. but if the report comes from one of your trained scouts (rangers), you get "2 days ago, 30 Enemy Samnite raiders crossed the border at Brandymuck station and are stealing cattle, currently they are still rampaging, if we move quickly we might catch them. Farmers on the border regions are not very happy with you!"

Another beauty of a RPG type CIV is that you must rely on other characters (AI or players) to manage other cities in your empire. They might revolt if your too inept. I imagine 5-8 players, playing senators of the Roman Repulbic, while the opponents are senators / generals of the Republic of Carthage. etc

Sounds AWESOME!! :king:

oOOo

Hah. Like the idea, lots of psychology there. Like, if you get too up yourself, everyone starts telling you what you want to hear, not what's really true, not to speak of plotting palace coups. Could get real paranoid...

I wish I had some extra dollars lying around... cuz all this talk is making me wanna go back and play some old skool games... like Warcraft(?): Humans v. Orcs.... lotsa urban planning and great people... plus some really fun warmaking!! And I've been craving Castles lately.... talk about a great beer & pretzels game... building some cool defenses, watching your armies fight off barbarians, or even noble armies!!

Man.... that takes me back :lol:

You could check for stuff here, basically freebies even if still copyright (Civ I/II are there):

http://www.bestoldgames.net/

Some of this stuff goes way way back, but still works for me...

[

EDIT - here you go:

http://www.bestoldgames.net/eng/old-games/warcraft.php
http://www.bestoldgames.net/eng/old-games/warlords-2.php

You know, I've never played that. Might give it a go, sounds good...

Not a pirate site, by the way, this stuff is known as 'abandonware'. The only way the companies could make money on them (and they'd all have to agree) is to release a huge DVD compendium - not a bad idea, though, you could get an awful lot of them on one DVD...

]

Hah. Like the idea, lots of psychology there. Like, if you get too up yourself, everyone starts telling you what you want to hear, not what's really true, not to speak of plotting palace coups. Could get real paranoid...



You could check for stuff here, basically freebies even if still copyright (Civ I/II are there):

http://www.bestoldgames.net/

Some of this stuff goes way way back, but still works for me...

[

EDIT - here you go:

http://www.bestoldgames.net/eng/old-games/warcraft.php
http://www.bestoldgames.net/eng/old-games/warlords-2.php

You know, I've never played that. Might give it a go, sounds good...

Not a pirate site, by the way, this stuff is known as 'abandonware'. The only way the companies could make money on them (and they'd all have to agree) is to release a huge DVD compendium - not a bad idea, though, you could get an awful lot of them on one DVD...

]

Cool... thanks.... I played a little Warcraft 2... good time.... I'll do that again...:lol:

ATHENS HAS BUILT A WARRIOR

>MOVE WARRIOR NORTH FROM ATHENS

YOUR WARRIOR SEES COWS

Hahahaha, thanks for this. Priceless. :lol::lol::lol:

Not a pirate site, by the way, this stuff is known as 'abandonware'.

Don't really want to soapbox here, but things thought to be abandonware aren't always such, and even if they are, that doesn't mean public domain anyway.

Don't really want to soapbox here, but things thought to be abandonware aren't always such, and even if they are, that doesn't mean public domain anyway.

Yes, agreed, I should have been more clear. I did mention the copyright issue, though, so not implying public domain or, heaven help us, advocating piracy. A rather grey area, something along the lines of 'distribution tolerated' (a position that has no legal standing, but describes the situation essentially).

Tropico 3 anyone?

The answer to your question is simple...it's not technologically possible as of now.

I can see, however, that eventually--like Civ 10 or so--that's exactly how the game's interface will work.

Tropico 3 anyone?

Civilization on a Tropico map would be pretty sweet, and it would run so smooth.