View Full Version : Kal-El's Earth map with resources and adapted rules by Rhye v2.6 POLAR ICE VERSION
Jan 04, 2003, 08:05 PM
Sorry, I no longer support this mod.
If you've got Conquests, you can find newest version of Rhye's of Civilization: the fastest loading mod here:
And an older version for vanilla Civ3 and PTW here:
Jan 04, 2003, 08:09 PM
a screenshot of how the world appears now
Jan 05, 2003, 05:41 AM
A pic of the year-round ice
Jan 05, 2003, 05:50 AM
How are they ever going to explore that big area if its impassible?
Jan 05, 2003, 06:29 AM
That big area must not be explored: the exploration will last until the end of the pine trees/mountains
People doesn't go to north pole for tourism or conquest
Feb 06, 2003, 08:24 PM
the problem with this is that you can now cross easily from Europe or Asia to North America along the northern route.
Feb 07, 2003, 04:32 AM
I've already solved the problem: I'll put it in next modpack I'm going to release.
The solution is a specific terrain graphic
Feb 07, 2003, 04:19 PM
How can you prevent any ship from sailing along the northern coastline?
Feb 07, 2003, 06:20 PM
with an optical illusion
Feb 07, 2003, 06:25 PM
I don't see anything stopping a galley from sailing from Eurasia to North America. What am I missing? Likewise what is to stop any ground unit from walking from Eurasia to North America and vice versa?
Feb 07, 2003, 06:25 PM
with this tundra can be passable
Sorry I posted the wrong pic, I've just corrected it
Feb 07, 2003, 06:26 PM
ah, you changed the preview on me. :) Now I see what you are doing.
Feb 09, 2003, 02:53 PM
The Times "Atlas of the 2nd World War" shows Russian Convoys could go from Archangel to Vladivostok via the Bering Sea (stopping at ports in Siberia etc).
Although I commend your implementation of the Northern Ice Packs I think you have gone overboard and cut off some shipping lanes that do exist in trying to recreate the fabled lack of a North-Western Passage.
Feb 09, 2003, 06:50 PM
Some maps show permanent ice above Siberia
Some other maps show a passage available in the summer.
I've reseached a bit and found that since the beginning of XX century it was possible to travel from Murmansk to Vladivostok.
But I ask myself: what were their ships? Icebreakers?
I wonder if a galley or caravel could cross it.
But still I haven't found anything about this specific subject on internet, so I can't decide yet
Feb 09, 2003, 06:57 PM
I've found something:
It speaks only about icebreakers
RUSSIA MUST KEEP HER CONTROL OVER ARCTIC SEA ROUTE
Mikhail Motsak, the First Deputy Plenipotentiary of Russia's President in the Northwestern Federal District, speaking at a session of the Military Coordination Council under the President's Plenipotentiary, said, 'The Arctic Sea Route must not become economically dependent on foreigners. Recently Norway, Denmark and other foreign countries have been trying to increase their presence there. Yet Russia as the owner of atomic icebreakers is capable of keeping the route functioning. We must be reasonable and stay on top where our both national and commercial interests are concerned'.
In the meantime, Mr. Motsak admits that by 2005 Russia may prove unable to keep the Arctic Sea Route functioning normally, most of the icebreakers being at the end of their resource now. He further said, 'We must make every effort to restore the icebreakers and so keep our control over the route'.
Feb 09, 2003, 07:10 PM
Schmidt became head of the Central Administration of the Northern Sea Route in 1932. He led several sea expeditions to discover a route from Europe to the Pacific. The goal of these expeditions was not only to make geographic discoveries. The Soviet government intended to develop vast and rich in gold and other minerals regions of Siberia. Political prisoners, became the main source of slave labor for these efforts in the 1930s. A Northern Route could serve as a new route to transport prisoners from European part of the Soviet Union to labor camps in Siberia.
During one of such expeditions the icebreaker Cheluskin was crushed by ice in the sea between far Eastern Siberia and Alaska in 1934. Conquest says that the Soviet government refused American assistance in rescuing the Cheluskin expedition because of a concern that it would reveal another ship which transported political prisoners and was stranded in the same area. Krawtchouk was sent to Kolyma camp on one of such ships in 1939?. The sea trip from Vladivostok to Magadan took several weeks. The trip conditions were inhumane because of overcrowding, lack of food, and abuse of political prisoners by guards and criminal prisoners.
Feb 09, 2003, 07:20 PM
A fourth route, through the Bering Sea and the Bering Straits to the Soviet Arctic, was also utilized. Cargo was shipped through the northern sea route to Archangelsk and Murmansk from east to west, but most of it was taken to the mouth of the largest Siberian rivers through which supplies for the ALSIB route had been carried.
Japan, fascist Germany's staunch ally, blocked the passage [...] When icebreakers couldn't cope with the thick ice, ships from America went to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, unloaded, and then headed to America for new cargo.
Feb 09, 2003, 07:21 PM
Murmansk is the only ice -free port along
the Arctic ocean route to Vladivostok.
Feb 09, 2003, 07:34 PM
The icebreaker Earl Grey was built as the governor general's yacht in 1909 (and was named after him) and as a Northumberland Strait ferry. She had a clipper bow and bowsprit, raised fo'c'stle, two masts and a single funnel and a counter stern. Her hull was really meant to cut through ice rather than to ride up on it and crush it. She was built by Vickers at Furness in 1909. 2357 gt, 6500 IHP, twin screw, capable of 17 knots, 250'. During 1914 she was sold to the Russians for service at Archangel and successively renamed Kanada, III International in 1920, and Fedor Litke in 1923. In 1923 she worked in the Baltic, in 1925-1928 in the Sea of Azov and in 1929-34 out of Vladivostok. She then returned to Murmansk via the Arctic route. In 1936 she made the trip back again to Vladivostok via the Northern route, but spent the war years working out of Archangel and Murmansk. In 1955 she sailed to within 400 nm of the North Pole, the closest a surface vessel had then come to the pole.
Feb 09, 2003, 07:37 PM
It appears that nothern passage is only possible with icebreakers
But I've found this:
Otto Schmidt lead some expeditions: one of these was aimed to find a way to pass without icebreakers.
But there's not written if he succeeded or not :mad:
Feb 09, 2003, 07:47 PM
The first Soviet icebreakers achieved the dream of Russian scientists and Arctic researchers by opening regular navigation along the North Sea passage. Nowadays, the passage is becoming one of the most viable ones, along with other international routes connecting Europe to Asia.
KoC, if you've something which demostrates the possibility of a sea route without icebreakers, please post it
Feb 18, 2003, 11:18 AM
Can't say for sure!
It was certainly navigated in 1878-79 by a Swedish Explorer/Geologist called Nordenskjold.
"1832–1901, Swedish geologist and arctic explorer, first to navigate the Northeast Passage."
" After 1872 he became interested in discovering the Northeast Passage as a possible route of trade. He reached Novaya Zemlya, crossed the Kara Sea, and ascended (1875) the Yenisei River, which he explored again in 1876. After these reconnoitering trips, he set out in the Vega in 1878, rounded Cape Chelyuskin, but was stopped by ice at the entrance to the Bering Strait. In 1879 he passed East Cape and sailed into the Bering Sea (northward extension of the Pacific). He completed the trip to China and returned to Sweden in 1880 and was created baron."
Also of interest:
"Vagabond becomes the first yacht to cross the North-East passage without wintering, the first foreign yacht to succeed it since soviet time, and the first yacht having done the 2 passages, North-West (1988) and North-East (2002)."
His ship was the "Vega" and it wasn't an icebreaker and nor was the "Zaria" which also did the route.
Subsequently icebreakers were used to clear the lanes, but even prior it is possible if not without difficulty.
Feb 18, 2003, 06:10 PM
from the same page:
In 1932 ice breaking ship "Sibiriakov" managed to make for the first time in one season a complete voyage through the Northern Sea Route
This demonstrates that the route was possible, but very very hard (with many stops, hoping for a warm summer). In fact only explorers accomplished it until 1900.
I think that closing the passage is the just decision. But not covering everything like I did in this map. In my next modpack I added some sea tiles (like it could be in summer). But I won't update this map for now, at least until I have released my next project
Feb 18, 2003, 06:43 PM
The route used is very close to shore heading port to port. Why not have the ice-pack limit movement to the coastal waters above Siberia?
But it isn't your fault, but simply the limitations of the terrain, ideally we could have another terrain type called loose icepack etc and allow icebreakers to go through it :)