This is from the PAD1 setup (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40604) for the warload team. The random civ turned out to be Arabia.

Regent 4000BC Gamesave (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_Regent.SAV)

Arabia is Religious, Expansionist
UU: Ansar Warrior 4.2.3, 60 shields, requires iron and horses.

Remember, I play the first 20 turns.

For the first round, everyone plays 20 turns.

The Team Roster for the Regent team is:

Round 4: Turn 180 - Turn 230

1 - Chieftess
2 - ShadowDragon
3 - CivGeneral
4 - Nad Turn Ended
5 - Stuck_As_a_Mac Now Playing

Round 5: Turn 230 - Turn 280

1 - Chieftess On Deck?
2 - ShadowDragon
3 - CivGeneral
4 - Nad
5 - Stuck_As_a_Mac

Here's the writeup! (Remember, don't look at the other team's thread until the industrial ages. (for both teams) Being regent, we may get there first.

4000BC (turn 0)

Starting location looks ok. It appears we're in the center of the world (just a bit to the left). Lake, some bonus shields, and lots of forest (good for early production, but will need irragation to support more than 2). There's some jungle to the SE. Do we settle here? Or explore a bit? We're expasionist, we have a scout!

Scout heads south - more grass and forest. Is that a coast to the west? There's a bonus sheild to our SE, and 1 that's 2 to the north. I don't want to waste any time moving around and waiting for culture to grab 2 shields (not to mention, there may be more forest to the east and west).

We settle. Mecca is founded. Production is switched to a scout, and the worked tile is placed on the forest. It slows growth, but gets our scout out quicker, and may net a future advantage. We send the worker to the bonus shield tile. Next, we survey the land. Is that a luxury I see? (I use the easy to spot luxs, a smiley appears in the distance) In the jungle to the east? It could be dyes, gems, silk or spice! There is also a river in the jungle.

Now, what to research? We're expansionist, so we could go with masonry and hope that we're on a sizable continent. Because this world is random, and barbs are restless, we'll go with Bronze Working. The AI researches at the same pace, so setting it to 0% doesn't work at this level. It's set to full throttle.

Nothing more to do this turn.

3950BC (turn 1)

The scout explores further south. What's this? 2 wheat and a goody hut? I hope there's a settler there!

3900BC (turn 2)

The settler enters the hut and finds... a skilled warrior! Looks like the land to the SW might be coast. The warrior will investigate there, then turn up to the capital for MP duty. More jungle (and forest) to the SE.

3850BC (turn 3)

Scout heads east into the jungle. He sees hills and the river going into the coast. The warrior continues west. Our 2nd scout is due next turn and will head north. The worked forest is producing 1 extra shield, so we move it to the bonus grasslands that our working is building a mine on.

3800BC (turn 4)

Our scout is built and heads west. It will head north next turn. The warrior heads west, and sees land on the other side of the coast. Perhaps it's a bay? The scout heading into the jungle sees a mountain on the other side of the river. It's time to micromanage Mecca again. The worked tile goes back on the forest.

3750BC (turn 5)

Our 2nd scout goes west then north. There seems to be a desert tile, with a forest and hills to the NW. There's also plains, and... 2 cattle! Our warrior heads towards the bay and sees.. another lake! The scout in the jungle climbs on a hill, but doesn't see much. Just more jungle.

3700BC (turn 6)

Jungle scout heads north. The luxury is dyes! There's also a clearing in the jungle! The other scout and warrior head north. There's a goody hut up there! The warrior also spots some jungle to the west. The next scout is complete in 2 turns. The worked tile can come off the forest, and on to the bonus grasslands with no change in production time. (Why didn't I see this sooner? :smoke: )

3650BC (turn 7)

Our mine is done! Production of the scout is complete in 1 turn. It only needs 1 shield, but we're production 3 per turn. We place it on the lake, which bumps Bronze Working from 17 turns to 11 turns! Nice! A road is then started on the mine. The jungle scout heads north and sees another lake to the east, along with lots of hills, mountains, grasslands, and the river continuing to the NE. Our warrior heads north. Nothing much to see as it moves around the lake. The northern scout walks into the goody hut, and... we get a map of the region! There's the hills, and it has incense! There's also a desert with a river running through it! Floodplains!! There's another river north of that one! This is definately a wet, warm world. But what kind?

The real question is, do we know enough to know where to found our 2nd city? There's wheat to the south, but a bit far from the capital. We want a tight build. The reason? 1 - reduced corruption. 2 - The city will only use 12 tiles max for much of the game, wasting 8 tiles. There's still some areas to the NE and SE that can be explored. The scout will be built, and settler production will commence.

3600BC (turn 8)

We get word that our treasury is running low. We can handle it for another 10 turns. Our city grows in 5, so we'll be in the clear by then. We have 11 food saved up, with 9 more to go. In 4 turns, it will be 1 food away. That's when we switch to the forest. The settler will have 4 shields worked towards it. At turn 5, it will have 7 shields. Then we'll micromanage when it grows.

We move the eastern (jungle) scout NE and see a goody hut! Instead of going on to the mountain, we enter, and... out pops a city! (Medina) Normally, this is one of the things I hate from Civ2. But, with the tight build plan, and the surronding terrain, it's more than perfect! :jump: Time to micromanage the city. The city has corruption! That means the cattle isn't doing much. So, we place the worked tile on the lake. Bronze Working just increased from 8 turns to 7! We also switch from a warrior to a worker. Growth and production are both in 10. If there's any sign of trouble, it can quickly build a warrior.

Our northern settler trudges north, and will curve east.

3550BC (turn 9)

The people love us, and offer to expand our palace! Scout/warrior pair head to the jungle west of the capital. There's forest game in the area, but more jungle and desert. The north scout heads east. The desert appears to continue that way. The Medina scout heads for the mountains. The view shows more rivers, mountains, plains, floodplains, and... a purple border!? Contact next turn!

3500BC (turn 10)

Mecca's borders expand. We can now use the other bonus grassland to the south of our mine. We move our "north scout" first. Looks like the desert curves to the SE. Our western expedition force continues west. Not much to write home about. The Medina Scout (renamed), walks onto the mountains. It's the Vikings! And they have a warrior in their city. They have warrior code, but won't part with it just yet. We could renegotiate peace, but it's best to play it safe for now. (We only have 10g, that's it). A quick scan of the histograph indicates that we're 5 points ahead with 40 points. The Vikings have 35. Trondheim is the 5th best city (I'm sure they're all tied right now). Other civs in the world (from the top 5) are: Ottomans, Koreans, Carthagians, and Greeks. We are 4th in Mfg. Goods (total sheilds being produced), but 1st in productivity with 13 (total of food, shields and commerce before corruption). This is because we're micromanaging right now. We have the largest land area, as we're probably one of the only civs with more than 1 city.

3450BC (turn 11)

Our western expedition spots more jungle and some forest. The desert and plains seem to end just past the forest. The northern scout curves down and sees forest, and 1 grassland tile where the desert ends. Not the best place for a city, so the 2 cattle and 1 wheat wins this match. No need to even try placing a road for the settler. Forests would take too long. The Medina Scout heads eats to the other mountain, and sees desert to the east. There's forest (right next to the desert! wow), plains and some grasslands to the NE.

3400BC (turn 12)

We spot a scout (Viking) below our Medina scout coming from the east (the desert). If there were any goody huts there, it's probably looted. We'll head north. Our "north scout" also turns north again onto a hill. More desert and forest. The western troops find a goody hut in site (warrior), and some wines (below the scout). Mecca grows in 1, time to micromanage. Our tech only drops by 1, but gaining 8 turns in micromanaging more than made up for it.

3350BC (turn 13)

Our warrior walks into the goody hut, and finds... a map of the region! There's more wines, and some wheat. It's a small patch of jungle, with grass, desert and plains to the SW. Further SW, there also appears to be... another border! This one definately is a shade of blue. Is it the Koreans? The other western scout heads west, then south, and sees another goody hut. In the east, both scouts head north. Ah! We've reach the coast! The other sees a mountain that would make for a nice lookout point. Tech check reveals nothing yet. It's still early in the game. Mecca grows. Time to micromanage. Our city grows in 20, but the settler in 5. Too slow. We'll move 1 tile to the lake, and the other to the tile the worker is working on. (It will need to be moved soon - in 4 turns). The city now grows in 10, and the settler in 11. Bronze Working is done in 2 turns. Micromanage that next turn.

3300BC (turn 14)

Our Western Scout enters the hut and fints 25 gold. He then heads south as the warrior heads west. The north scout goes to the northern mountain, and sees plains, with wheat by a river, and possible grasslands to the north. The Medina Scout heads north, and finds tundra. The Vikings will be slightly crippled. Bronze Working in 1! It can be micromanaged. We can take it down to 80%, and gain 1 gold. (A small gain, but when you have hundreds of cities, that can mean a few hundred gpt).

3250BC (turn 15)

We have Bronze Working! What to research next? We're religous, so we could take the monoarchy track. We're also expansionist, so we could take masonry and construction track. (not very useful, but you'd think it would be). We can research at the same rate the AI can, so no real need for lit. and the Great Library. We'll see what that mystery civ can offer first. Our scout moves in, and... it's the Koreans! They have the alphabet, and warrior code, but don't have pottery and cerimonial burial. They won't give the two techs so easily. There's really no need to attack them in the next 20 turns, so we try a peace renegotiation... SUCCESS! For peace, we get Alphabet and Warrior code for our 2 techs and 14 gold. Previously, they were insulted by a 2 for 2 deal. They go from cautious to polite! The Vikings don't have Bronze or the Alphabet! Now that we actually have something they don't, we can check each turn for a free worker. In PTW, workers are MUCH more expensive. We explore a bit more in the north-east. The Vikings have spices, and there appears to be tundra just north of that river. We'll go for Iron Working to see where the iron is located. Switching the science slider to 100% gets iron working in 21 instead of 24.

3200BC (turn 16)

Our scouts continue exploring, and the northern one finds a hut. In it is... Mysticism! Korea also appears to be on flood plains. Our worker is done next turn.

3150BC (turn 17)

Scouts continue to explore. The Medina Scout finds a regional map in a goody hut (not much, as it's mostly discovered/sea). Now for some micromanaging fun! Mecca grows in 6, but the settler is done in 4. The settler needs 12 shields for completion. We will move the worked bonus grassland to the normal grassland tile for 3 turns, then switch back. This removes 2spt (6 shields that would have gone wasted). In latter turns, this can mean more gpt. Trade check - no one has workers.

3100BC (turn 18)

Our worker in Medina is complete, and will start mining the cow. Since the worked tile on the cattle can't do anything, we switch it to the lake for now. Our scouts (and warrior) continue to explore and fine more floodplains, jungles, deserts, plains and grasslands. This is one diverse continent!

3050BC (turn 19)

Scouts continue to explore. Nothing exciting as of yet. Nothing new on the trading front.

3000BC (turn 20)

It's time to micromanage Mecca. We move the worked grass tile back onto the mined bonus tile. Growth and settler in 3! There is a Viking warrior by Medina, apparently on scouting duty. A temporary settler is being created in Medina.


For the next player

Below is a map that shows the city placement. The first city should be by those cattle and wheat (It's marked by the blue squares). The city should be founded in 7 turns, and should be a good settler factory. I've also played against the AI enough to know that they AI always sends one warrior on scouting missions... I don't think we need to worry about that warrior yet.

Besure to place cities on the blue squares. If you noticed, I used a mostly tight build pattern. That's our "first ring", since before sanitation, we can only use up to 12 tiles.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1.jpg

@Chieftess: Can I join?

I'm waiting for SG's on monarch level, but they're not coming. Since I never played a SG before and I like to experience other playing styles, this looks like a nice one for me.

ok, this looks good. First of all, from a roster point of view, I won't be available to play between Friday 10th January and Sunday 12th Jan, so could I move to the end of the roster please?

Nice start, 2 or 3 luxes available already, this is continents or pangaea. I hope I don't bump into you in a dark alley, Chieftess!! Renegotiating peace on initial contact and when our military consisted of 1 conscript warrior:eek: :eek:

like the early 2nd scout, not entirely sure if it was worth slowing our growth to the extent that you had to use a normal grass as opposed to a bonus grass to avoid shield waste.

Also [and I haven't looked at the save yet, so this is an uneducated observation] is it really necessary to have a tight build? Sure most of the tiles don't get used til late in the game, but if we space our cities further apart, it denies land to the AI, so we control more territory with less cities. I tend to go with cities at least 4 squares apart, and mostly 5 apart, unless the land is especially limited, and this does not appear the case here. What do you think?

Looking forward to it though, looks very nice

Aggie - sure.

@Nad -

I know peace renegotiation is an unorthodox method (if not a forgotten art), but at the very least, you can usually still go with peace for peace. It also allows you to get techs cheaper when the AI normally won't give them to you, and you might be able to get away with giving the AI 1 tech instead of two (thus stalling them for maybe 10 turns or so).

Also, tight built is a proven method. Notice how Medina already has corruption. It also allows you to quickly defend your civ from the capital. Optimal is a city 3 tiles away. A spear that's built in the capital can reach any 8 cities (in an optimal build pattern) in 1 turn. To see what it's like, look at the Civ3 Demgoame. We used a tight build there, and it allowed for quick unit upgrades. They say (American) football is a game of inches. Civ3 is a game of shields. :) Building close means the difference between building a unit this turn, or building one next turn. You can actually speed up production of units, which is good for antiquity wars.

That's great!

Since we're not allowed to look at the other thread, I've got a couple of questions. What kind of map are we playing on, how many opponents, what are the rules, etc...?

@Aggie - The map is a standard map with random settings, and restless barbs.

So far, it appears to be:

warm, wet, 5 billion years.
Perhaps continents, but we can't be sure yet once we start exploring the seas.

but, though we may reduce distance corruption, we're going to have a lot more corruption due to being over the OCN, which on a standard map is just 16; so for every city over that , our whole empire will suffer more corruption. Tight build gives us a small early advatage but is detrimental long-term. No worries, this is just an opinion and is (I think) what makes SGs so much fun, different ideas on playing style. I'm perfectly happy to go for a tight build, just thought I'd present the case for the other option.

Good luck to next player, and is it ok for me to go last?

The Vikings are nasty neighbours. Aggressive, their scout will beat us to some goody huts and with a super UU. Luckily the AI doesn't know how to use it to their full potential (amphibious attacks). :p

EDIT: @Chieftess: which victory conditions and do we have to stick to certain rules (always war, honorable, ...) ?

@Nad - It's a trade-off, but the 2nd ring in an OCP pattern would have a bit more corruption. If we find another continent (assuming there is one, and we're not on the only continent in an archipelago map), we can have a central FP with an OCP build there (if it's feasible). Tight build is especially useful on the higher levels when you have to start competiting with the AI's increased production, and you have to wage early wars.

@Aggie - We were just as agressive, and beat the AI to about a good dozen huts. ;) I noticed their scout looking around in the south, so I figured there would be no chance of goodie huts there, and took a chance that the AI didn't look closer to their territory (and it paid off). EDIT: :p All victory conditions are on, and we should play honorably (no declaring war in the AI's territory, no signing peace when we still have a military allience, etc.).

Nad, Chieftess. My strategy would be to have two core cities with no overlap and then have the rest like chieftess suggests. The core cities can then be used for building a lot of settlers and a few wonders.

The problem with a OCP build (I just tested), is that the city would end up with 25% corruption. 2 (free) tiles away, it's about 8%, 3 tiles, it's 16%. (Also, the main reason the SW city is one out of the tight build is because it gives us a port).

@Chieftess: It's OK. I must remind myself that this is a standard map. I'm used to play huge maps... BTW: I also don't use OCP one huge maps...

I've got it! I have two more classes today (Fourth-Year French and C++), so I may have to wait until tomorrow to play and post the save.

Ok, we'll wait! :D

@Chieftess: did I miss the gamesave after your turn?

EDIT: I found it in the general PAD1 thread...
EDIT2: No, I didn't. It was the starting position :o

WHOOPS! :blush:

PAD1 3000BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_Turn20_3000BC.zip)


BTW, Padma and I are rethinking the everyone plays 20 turns the first round. With 5 players, that's 1/5th of the game.

Chieftess, I can't download the file.... unknown location...

EDIT: OK, I'm third, so I suggest to play 10 turns each starting with me...

Try

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_Turn20_3000BC.zip

I think that'll work and is what you're looking for.

Arathorn

@Arathorn: thanks!

Yeah, somehow my game directory got copied over... It's fixed.

There's been a bit of a change in the schedule. We're having a "step down" approach, where the current player plays 20 turns, the next will play 15, then we'll continue with 10 each. Look at the player list at the top of the thread to see how many turns you have to play.

Originally posted by ShadowDragon
I've got it! I have two more classes today (Fourth-Year French and C++), so I may have to wait until tomorrow to play and post the save.

SD, where's the save?

Originally posted by Chieftess


SD, where's the save?

I'm playing right now :)

Turn 0 - 3000 B.C. - Browsing around, I don't see anything to veto. However, I do notice that using Mecca as a settler factory without biulding a granary is extremely ineffecient, as we can only build a settler every 20 turns there instead of every 10. I think I'll settle between the cattle and the wheat and make that town a settler factory. The Scandinavian warrior walks inside the Medina city boundary.
Turn 1 - 2950 B.C. - I contact our friend Ragnar Lodbrok and he promises that his warrior will leave. According to our advisor, our military is weak compared to the Scandinavian one. I send the worker from Mecca's forests to the north to irrigate. The scout west of our rival Korea finds a coastline. Our southern warrior also explores, finding a hut filled with primitive natives after 50 years of exploration. We hope they will be friendly to our cause. Well, the Scandinavian warrior moves to a different tile within Medina's boundaries.
Turn 2 - 2900 B.C. - It looks as if he was telling the truth. We get 25 gold in the goody hut. I just noticed that our worker is mining, not irrigating, the cattle. I'm no Sirian, but that smells like weed to me... Especially since we're on water and can grow above population 6 without an aqueduct, it would be to our advantage to grow there as quickly as possible. Mining the tile would increase shield production in the (very) short run, but irrigating would give us a great high-production size-12 city sooner. I make the change. The Scandinavians then leave our territory.
Turn 3 - 2850 B.C. - When the settler finishes, I start on a warrior. We can then build a warrior, then we might be ready for a settler. That should be our last settler from there, then we can work on workers to clear those forests. We find another goody hut and another cultural border, this one green and south of Korea. I'm guessing it's the Persians.
Turn 4 - 2800 B.C. - We learn Masonry from the goody hut.
Turn 5 - 2750 B.C. - The green civ turns out to be Greece, and we stumble upon two more cultural borders, one red and one orange. Who could they be? I'm guessing the red one's Babylon.
Turn 6 - 2710 B.C. - The oranges are the Ottomans! We found Damascus and start a granary there.
Turn 7 - 2670 B.C. - The reds are the Romans... That makes me 0 for 2. I start a temple at Medina to expand its borders. We are religious, so that helps.
Turn 8 - 2630 B.C. - Zzzzzz.
Turn 9 - 2590 B.C. - Zzzzzz.
Turn 10 - 2550 B.C. - Micromanage for 1 beaker.
Turn 11 - 2510 B.C. - Zzzzzz.
Turn 12 - 2470 B.C. - 25 gold in goody hut.
Turn 13 - 2430 B.C. - Micromanage for 3 gold.
Turn 14 - 2390 B.C. - The Wheel to 100%. I think we should build up a force of chariots then upgrade them to Ansar Warriors, which we can use to take over the Scandinavians.
Turn 15 - 2350 B.C. - Zzzzzz.

Notes to next player: In Damascus, irrigate the wheat to get to five surplus food per turn. No need to irrigate the second cattle, but you can put a road on that tile. After the granary finishes, pump out a settler every four turns. Watch for happiness while at it; you may have to use the luxury slider. In Medina, build a barracks, then chariots. In Mecca, a settler first, then workers, etc. All subject to your review, of course. I agree with Chieftess's dotmap except for the northeastern town, which I suggest moving on top of the hill by the river. I suggest founding a town one tile east of the iron by Scandinavia. Of the just two iron resources I see on the map, it's the only one we might be able to grab first. We do need iron for our UU. Also, that location provides a very nice staging point for an attack on Scandinavia.

Sorry, I don't have time to tar the save file. Have to leave to see a movie now.

EDIT: Just looked up their UU. Ouch. We should be able to beat them with fast forces though, against slow, defensively weak Berserkers.

Hmm... Looks like I should get ready to play my 10 turn :).

The thing about the cattle.. I used to irragate it, but I've seen people mine it because it gives an instant 3 food and 2 shields, rather than all growth and little production, especially if there's wheat AND cattle. Irragate wheat, mine cattle. Also, did you try to see what techs the Greeks and Romans had? Sounds like our continent curves to the SW, and we're on the edge.

I have to visit my mother in the hospital. That means that I won't be able to post much the coming day. But I will be able to finish my part tomorrow evening or sunday morning at the latest (CET).

So. this is my I've got it! (without having the savegame yet....).

Shadowdragon, I also like to know whether you traded things with the other civs.

I agree with you that the Vikings must be attacked before they attack us with their UU. We have a fast UU that comes about the same time, if we anticipate this by building horsemen, we should have no trouble with them. So I agree with you. But first: expand!

The UU requires iron and horses, so naturally, we should research those two techs to map out the land.

No, I didn't trade anything because there was nothing to trade for except a few gold from each civ, IIRC. Didn't realize I didn't post the save, so here it is:

There's 2 visible iron sources - one near the Vikings (their next city could be that spot...), and one by the Koreans. We have a nice area though, where we can block out the other 4 civs, and contain the Vikings while we slowly chomp down on them. :) Just hope we have horses nearby, or else it's Plan C - Archers, of which we'd have to do a blitz through the future Viking heartland.


Anyway, Aggie, you're up! After researching The Wheel, go with horsebackriding if we have horses close by. Otherwise, we can hope those catapults in Mathematics come in handy. Lots of horses enmasse can do some considerable damage to a stack of swordsmen.

Also, we can have another settler in Mecca. With a little micromanagement (move the shields to the grasslands for a turn or two), we can have another settler. in about 8 turns

Originally posted by Chieftess
The thing about the cattle.. I used to irragate it, but I've seen people mine it because it gives an instant 3 food and 2 shields, rather than all growth and little production, especially if there's wheat AND cattle. Irragate wheat, mine cattle.I was thinking along the lines of irrigation allowing us to grow 2 turns more quickly (4 at higher populations), compounding over several growth cycles, netting us a bunch of extra shields.

After researching The Wheel, go with horsebackriding if we have horses close by.I wonder if it would be more efficient to build cheap chariots then upgrade. I've never tried it before, but that could very well be the case.

Also, we can have another settler in Mecca. With a little micromanagement (move the shields to the grasslands for a turn or two), we can have another settler. in about 8 turnsThere's a flaw in that reasoning. That would be giving up shields and getting nothing in return. If you're going to do that, you might as well switch to settler but keep the same tiles, wasting 3 turns of shields waiting for the city to grow. If we stay on our present course and build a settler next, we'll still get a settler in 8 turns or so and have an extra warrior while we're at it.

In a developed city, that would mean the difference between a few extra GPT.

Looks like I am on deck ready to play the save :).

Originally posted by Chieftess
In a developed city, that would mean the difference between a few extra GPT. I'm not sure I understand what this refers to :confused:.

I hope you don't mind my criticism. It really is my nature -- I'm like that with everyone :D. Please do :spank: some sense into me if you see any :smoke:.

Now, let's go and get :flamedevi himself (a.k.a. :viking: ) to our east.

I'm having too much fun with these smilies :lol:

OK people, I'm back. Keep your fingers crossed, because your game is in my hands now ;)

Turn 0 - 2350 BC

First thing to do is to listen to the advisors in the game and at CFC. We have a stronger military than the Vikings! Decide to leave everything as it is.

Interturn: Nothing special. A Roman settler is going south to settle.

Turn 1 - 2310 warrior finished in Mecca

Decide to build a warrior before starting the settler...

Turn 2 - 2270 BC exiciting turn, nothing to report...

Turn 3 - 2230 BC finished warrior in Mecca, start building to settler. Finished temple in Medina, start building barracks. Contacted all civs. Managed to get Writing from Korea for Mysticism, 25 gold and contact with the Romans (their neighbours...)

Turn 4 - 2190 BC Zzzzzzzzzzzz

Turn 5 - 2150 BC Got 25 gold from a goody box

Turn 6 - 2110 BC Zzzzzzzzzzzz

Interturn: a warrior barely survives a barbarian attack

Turn 7 - 2070 BC A scout ends the turn next to a barbarian...

Interturn: one scout gone

Turn 8 - 2030 BC Finished the wheel. Start researching horseback riding now. Ready in 9 turns at 100% science (-1 gpt). No horses nearby!!! :eek: The closest are 7 tiles away northwest of Damascus. The Vikings DO have horses... :cry:

Turn 9 - 1990 BC Finished settler in Mecca, start building temple. Finished granary in Damascus, start building settler. The other civs have nothing to offer. I decide to go after the horses to the northwest and send the settler there. Luxury to 10% (science to 90%) for Medina.

Turn 10 - 1950 BC Our second scout also ends next to a barbarian.

Interturn: Second scout gone

Turn 11 - 1910 BC Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Turn 12 - 1870 BC Luxury to 20 %, science to 80%. Medina finished barracks. Start building archer. No horsies, no iron, what am I to do? :undecide:

Turn 13 - 1830 BC Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Turn 14 - 1790 BC Our last scout will also not survive my turn...

Turn 15 - 1750 BC Baghdad founded near the Incense. Damascus finished settler. Sent to found a city near the horses. Start building another settler. Luxury down to 10%, science to 90%.

Horseback riding will be finished in 5 turns. We may have a good shot at the Great Library, if we research Literature after this. The other civs still have nothing to offer: no knowledge, no gold, no communication. They are quite unaware of others living on this continent. The Vikings decided to expand to the east (NOT to the iron!!). Medina will finish an archer in one turn. We can build more of them and decide on attacking the vikings (claiming their horses and iron). We also could expand a little more and switch to a settler....

Please be easy on me, because today is a day of celebration: one year at CFC! [party]

Here's the gamesave:

The thing about the GL is that, while our research matches the AI, it would be beneficial if we're in lots of wars early on (namely, the Vikings :hammer: ).

I'll take a look at the save after the demogame turnchat, which is in 10 minutes. CG is next, and we'll go over plans there. :) Nad is on deck!

Aggie - why did you put Bahgdad up there? If you had placed it 1 to the NW, it would have had much more production. It now has 3 tiles in Damacus' borders. 1 to the NW could have used the river, and EASILY supported the food needed for the hills. Not to meantion, we didn't fill out territory around our capital first. :smoke: in my opinion. Not to mention the extra corruption... (of which some will be wasted until we get the courthouse and WLTKD)

I have recived the save :).

Loading as I speek :)

@Chieftess: I was very worried about the fact that we didn't have horses and iron. This lead me to decide to settle near the horses asap. I agree with you that I should have settled on a better place than I did. And for that I'm very ashamed. I think that the fear to make a mistake made me do just that :blush: .

But I thought that waiting with settling in that area would leave the door open for the Romans and the Vikings. And rob us from the horses. I also thought that the circle around Mecca was a save area that could wait a couple of turns (in fact, it's just about four turns later that we are continuing to settle there).

Edit: I relized I had played the wrong save >_<. I am such a Newbie when it comes to Succession Games >_<

Ahem.....CG, you just played the part I already played. I guess you have to settle with my results and start from there

Originally posted by Aggie
Ahem.....CG, you just played the part I already played. I guess you have to settle with my results and start from there

I though that was the most recent save you uploaded

Originally posted by CivGeneral


I though that was the most recent save you uploaded

It was the most recent game, but I'm afraid you didn't use it...

I am an experianced player when it comes to playing Civ3 by my self and playing the demogame.

But when it comes to a Succession Games, I becme a Newbie in the Succession Games. >_<.

It looks like I should try again Using the most recent save >_<

Originally posted by CivGeneral
But when it comes to a Succession Games, I becme a Newbie in the Succession Games. >_<.

Welcome to the club ;) . I wish you a lot of success with your archer factory in Medina :)

CivGeneral's 10 turns

I hope I get this Right, I want to leave Newbiehood in the Succession Games >_<

Turn 1, 1725BC
Medina: Archer -> Archer
Barbarian Cons Warrior vs. Arabia Vet Warrior: Result, Arabia Warrior wins
Sending Settler to Chieftess's recomended sights
Giving workers to build roads
Exploring with units

Turn 2, 1700BC
Lucky me, We get to upgrade our palace :D
Settler settles at Chieftess's recomended sights.
Najran has been founded on 1700BC :party:
Setting Najran to build a warrior
Continues to explore

Turn 3, 1675BC
Damascus goes into a disorder, I quickly micromanage the city to have an entertainer.
Continuing Exploration

Turn 4, 1650BC
Scence: Horseback riding -> Map Making
Mecca: Temple -> Spearmen
Medina: Archer -> Settler
Order restored at Damascus
Ordering worker to build a mine near Baghdad
Sends an archer to defend Najran

Turn 5, 1625BC
Checks up on Micromanagement
Moving warriors to disperce a warrior camp nead Baghdad

Turn 6, 1600BC
Moving units
Has the worker by Medina build a road in the tile it is in
Cancels mine orders by Baghdad due to a barbarian threat. Moves the worker into Baghdad

Turn 7, 1575BC
Mecca's Borders expand
Barbarian Warrior attacks Baghdad and is defeated :D, Worker continues his previous work
Sending a warrior to disperce a barbarian camp
Najran: Warrior -> Spearmen

Turn 8, 1550BC
Damascus: Settler -> Temple
Mecca: Spearmen -> Spearmen
Barbarian warrior closes in on Mecca
Sending Settler and a spearmen to one of Chieftess's suggested sites
Dispercing warrior camp and get 25g out of the camp

Turn 9, 1525BC
Medina: Settler -> Walls
Sending Settler to one of Chieftess recommended Sites worker also follows since the site contains dyes :D

Turn 10, 1500BC
Intercepting Barbarian warriors
Moves warriors

End of turn 10, Saving and uploading
Note to self, use the latest game save that Aggie posts ;)

Just a comment though... we could research Lit or take the monarchy track. The monarchy track would allow us to support a nice army, and increase our growth/economy.

EDIT: One more thing CG. :smoke: Read the previous players comments. Damascus is to be a settler factory, and we can save the temple for now while we claim land. Also, we're on Regent, which I believe the 3rd citizen is born unhappy. Be sure to micromanage before it riots. Mecca should also be switched to a settler this turn. We can let it build archers for a while, or build a granary for future settlers).

To the next player, Nad - be sure to look at the city placement map on the first page. That will tell where to place the cities.

EDIT: Medina could also build a settler. Remember to watch the growth. We have some healthy cities on this map. :D After these settlers, we can start preparing for war (and build a worker or two, and 1 or 2 settlers in the process).

Monarchy or Literature are both fine to me.

But what I like to see us do now is build up a stack of archers in Medina and attack the Vikings. Before it's too late and they have expanded with stronger units. Depending on the result against the Vikings, I would choose for either Literature (it went well) or Monarchy (we need more units...). I think that if we take out the Vikings, we have enough room te expand without a war until the UU comes into play :)

We must remind ourselves that we are surrounded by two agressive civs (Vikings and Romans)

Here's a larger dotmap I just made. And here's a suggested settling order for our next 10 towns, assuming we can reach all of these locations first, which is extremely doubtful:

1) Iron
We can get both Iron and horses here with a temple and a colony, which we can use to upgrade to our UU instead of rushing with archers.
2) Containment 2
This is to prevent eastward expansion by other civilizations. Plus it will claim horses, which we can connect to build horsemen at home, send them to "Iron," and upgrade.
3) Hills (Defense)
This is primarily to deny the Vikings easy-to-defend land.
4) Bay
Grasslands (some bonus), with wheat nearby and a lake, so we can grow quickly to size 12.
5) Dyes
Low-corruption land on a luxury.
6) Wine
More luxuries, of which we can use one and trade the other away.
7) Loggers' Paradise
A bit of forest, but once we cut those down it will be high-production, low-corruption land.
8) Nothing-of-Note
This completes our first ring, although I placed it farther out than did Chieftess.
9) Bay 2 (Dolphins)
Claims dolphins and some grasslands, including two bonus grasslands.
10) Fishery 3
Provides tons of gold after we get a harbor and an aqueduct.

EDIT: Dotmap v1.1

One thing about the tundra - little growth. That means, even if we do get all the coastal tiles (harbors), we can only use two tiles for the tundra. That's because:

For each new city size, you get 2 food to use. (using that as a benchmark). Place it on a tundra (or hills, plains), and it only gives you 1 food. (you're losing 1 food as well). Place it on the second tundra, and you gain only 1 food (you've lost another, two total). So, the strategy there might be: ICS, Infinite City Spawl. The ICS build is a checker board pattern like this:

C*C*C
*****
C*C*C


I don't like settling in the iron spot for a couple of reasons:

1. It's next to a capital - that's a potential for culture flipping right there.

2. distance - we'll have to build a road up there, and that'll take a while.

3. distance again - by the time we DO get a settler there, that site might already be settled.

Originally posted by Chieftess
One thing about the tundra - little growth. That means, even if we do get all the coastal tiles (harbors), we can only use two tiles for the tundra. That's because:After steam power, we can use four, but your point is taken :) I usually settle near the border of grassland and tundra for this purpose. We could move it S, then SW to claim more grassland, then build another town on the coast.

Originally posted by Chieftess
I don't like settling in the iron spot for a couple of reasons:

1. It's next to a capital - that's a potential for culture flipping right there.

2. distance - we'll have to build a road up there, and that'll take a while.

3. distance again - by the time we DO get a settler there, that site might already be settled. Again, I can see your point. I would still like that iron, so we could settle one east of where I have "Horses" now and build a temple. (We are religious, after all.) That would reduce problems 1 and 3, but do nothing about two. We could build a barracks there instead of connecting it, eliminating problem 2. And another benefit is making sure the Vikings don't get that iron, reducing their best defender in the early Middle Ages to 2 instead of 3.

I'm updated the above map. Be sure to reload to see the changes.

BTW, Nad said earlier in the thread that he wouldn't be here this weekend (which means all day tomorrow). So, we can either discuss, or I could go ahead with a turn, and Nad could play 2 to catch up somewhere...

I'm OK either way. Actually, if you went now, we may be able to finish another cycle in time for Nad to take his on Monday.

As for tech, I'm not sure of our exact situation, but mathematics might be a wise investment if we're close to it. The AI values it but doesn't research it very quickly. We could sell it to everyone and make a ton of money to upgrade to our UU. We may not want to switch into Monarchy just yet because it provides less unit support than does Despotism.

How about our Forbidden Palace? If we get a Great Leader in our battle against the Vikings, I think we should build it in Najran then hop the real palace west. If we don't, I suggest saving the Forbidden Palace for our westward conquest.

There's a spot near Rome that looks like a prime canidate (right by the floodplains and mountains - come the industrial era, that'll be a major spot). We should have a "2-3 ring" (atleast for a standard map). That is, a concentric ring of cities around the capital (and FP). The FP's 2nd or 3rd ring should not overlap.

Anyway, since Nad won't be here until Monday, I've decided to do this:

I'll play, and we continue until Nad arrives (that means 1 round). The 3rd round (after this one), I'll play, then Nad plays, and at the end of the round, Nad plays again. That's so everyone gets an equal amount of turns. (Granted, the other team might "lose" a player for a day too..) But, first I have to reboot.. memory's getting low.

Ok, here's my turn:

Turn 0 (1500BC)

Micromanagment - Damacus will riot next turn. :cringe: While it could use a temple, I would like to see settlers only, as it is a settler factory. (maybe after the 2nd or 3rd settler) Production changed to settler (4 turns)

Mecca can use another settler (4 turns)

Medina doesn't need walls as of yet - switched to settler (5 turns)

Turn 1 (1475BC)

Kufah founded, and worker is connecting it to the empire.
Starts warrior for quick defense. Fortifying injured warriors. Medina archer is sent to temporarily "met" the barb. Where did the barb come from? The south? MM'd Medina so it won't riot.

Turn 2 (1450BC)

Our warrior defends against one barb, but loses attacking the other. the one barb is headed for the undefended city of Kufah. The Medina warrior is sent to intercept as the archer goes back into town.
Basra founded. Queue set to warrior, then worker (we'll be needing them).
Our southern injured scout-warrior is healed. We are also the most advanced in techs! We also have 7 cities. All others have 3. That 2nd early city REALLY helped us out here!

I also decide to send the warrior in Damascus to defend Baghdad from the barbs (temporarily - if one loses, we still have this one). Damascus may starve due to the micromanagement, but the settler still gets done in two turns. I wake the worker in Baghdad and refortify. (It's a bit of an exploit...

Turn 3 (1425BC)

The barb goes on the mountain - same with the one by the south warrior (except it goes on a hill). Nothing much else to due but wait for our settlers. :D

Turn 4 (1400BC)

Our warrior in Kufah defends against the barb! Settlers in Mecca and Medina built. Mecca-settler is sent to "Logger's Paradise". I also do some micromanagement to Medina now that the road to the dye is done. (I placed the ent. on the lake. Moving it to the forest has no effect on settler production)

Just as I thought... Rome took the horse spot, so that spot is out. I will in Nothing-of-note, taking the spare warrior as a settler escort. I micromanage damascus to use both cattle. It takes 1 turn longer to grow, but the settler is done quicker. Mecca starts on a granary. Kufah also MM'd for a warrior in 4 turns.

turn 5 (1375BC)

Baghdad finishes the temple, and starts a worker. Khurasan built at "Logger's Paradise". Will start on the worker. I just noticed that our city location of "Farmer's Paradise" CAN be built!

Turn 6 (1350BC)

I really don't like building close to a capital (the "Hills (Defense) location), and the mountain area seems nice. But, I think I'll go for that "Farmer's Paradise" as a culture flipping location. The city will be on temple-build indefinately (We may have to resort to pop-rushing) With enough pop-rushing, we can have the builder's "Culture War". :) Medina also micromanaged for more production.
Korea STILL has that worker in the capital. I wonder what's going on... barbs? war?

Turn 7 (1325BC)

A barb horsemen (! That means the barb raids are starting soon!) approaches Medina. I move the warrior over, and move an archer out for a possible intercept. Najran is building another spear, which can be moved. I'm also taking a warrior out of Mecca temporarily as a diversion.

Turn 8 (1300BC)

Kufah builds warrior, starts worker. The warrior ruses worked! The horsemen went for another of our temporarily undefended cities, and our warrior came out and defeated it!
Anjar founded on "Nothing-Of-Note". Baghdad also switches to a worker. Korea now has Map Making, but he STILL has that one worker in the capital! Ok, time to renegotiate the peace deal! We get the worker, and Korea goes from cautious to polite! From the looks of it, they either have a barb problem, or they're at war. The Ottomans are apparently trying to block them in.

Turn 9 (1275BC)

More scouting, more barb killing... We see another barb horsemen north of damascus, but we have a settler moving through, and our warrior is on "standby".

Turn 10 (1250BC)

Our warrior dies fighting the horsemen, but our archer comes out to defeat it. We'll need some archer/spears (no more warriors... until we get iron) after the worker/settler is built. The southern barb camp has been spotted. The Vikings have a 4th city (We have 9 now), and it's in the tundra to the north!). Damascus MM'd to grow quicker (now that it has dyes - things get a little easier on the hapiness management :D).


Things for the next player:

The SE warriors should take that barb hut (near our territory). One should be on sentry duty on the mountain so that area is safe for future settlement. The other should patrol the southern "no barb zone"... uhhh... far SE of Bahgdad... ;) We should also start building cities (after "Farmer's Paradise" is built. We could build on "N. Desert 2", and take the Korean worker along (to poprush the temple, as it's close to Babylon)... But, I would really like the productive areas to the south be built as well... Also watch the science rate as we near 0g, and 1 turn left.

1250BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/pad1_R_Turn70_1250 bc.sav)

Originally posted by Chieftess
Just a comment though... we could research Lit or take the monarchy track. The monarchy track would allow us to support a nice army, and increase our growth/economy.

EDIT: One more thing CG. :smoke: Read the previous players comments. Damascus is to be a settler factory, and we can save the temple for now while we claim land. Also, we're on Regent, which I believe the 3rd citizen is born unhappy. Be sure to micromanage before it riots. Mecca should also be switched to a settler this turn. We can let it build archers for a while, or build a granary for future settlers).

EDIT: Medina could also build a settler. Remember to watch the growth. We have some healthy cities on this map. :D After these settlers, we can start preparing for war (and build a worker or two, and 1 or 2 settlers in the process).

Hmm, Looks like I could learn a thing or two while playing on Regent :).

Ok, ShadowDragon is up! We'll let Nad play twice in one round after this round so he can catch up on his turns.

OK, got it. If my mom ever gets off the phone, I can finish watching "Manon des Sources" (one of the best movies of all time, I must say). After that, I'll play my 10 turns.

EDIT: I'm starting right now rather than waiting, but the movie may interrupt me, so be warned :)

EDIT: The real URL is http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/pad1_R_Turn70_1250_bc.sav , by the way...

Aggie - when you get the save in later this morning (It's 12:43AM EST), let everyone talk about the save first. CG is quite eager to play, but I want the turns to go slow enough so that Nad has a chance to play. :)

Deleted my previous comments: guess sleeping is for the weak...missed a couple of turns :eek:

Hmmm, Reykjavik is built on a very strange place. I guess there's oil there.... Why would the Vikings NOT build near the iron :confused: I think we should be glad that Ragnar made this mistake. And profit from it.

Turn 0 (1250 B.C.)
Kufah Worker-->Warrior as it won't have enough population for a worker in three turns.
Basra Worker-->Temple as it needs to grab that wheat to grow quickly to size 12 and become a shield powerhouse.
Anjar Temple-->Warrior as a temple will only bring desert and jungle into range, and we don't yet need the culture.
A horseman shows up just outside of Damascus. Another horseman pops out of the barb camp.

Turn 1 (1225 B.C.)
Najran finishes spearman and starts settler. Its two spearman are moved to protect from the barb horseman.
Workers moved to Damascus to mine a few tiles.
Warrior kills the SE horseman and becomes veteran.
Settler waits a turn so as to pair up with an archer, then heads to "Farmers' Paradise."
Koreans offer territory map for territory map, but I refuse

Turn 2 (1200 B.C.)
A spearman defeats the northern horseman.
Damascus settler goes to "Iron" w/spearman.

Turns 3 & 4 (1175/1150 B.C.) (lost track)
Anjar finishes warrior, starts worker. (Warrior goes to Baghdad.)
Kufah finishes warrior, starts worker. (Warrior goes to Najran.)
Khurasan finishes warrior, starts worker. (Warrior fortifies.)
Our northern warrior attacks a horseman and wins.
Micromanaging science saves us 15 (!) gold.
Mathematics at 100%.

Turn 5 (1125 B.C.)
Horseman attacks our spearman and loses.
Basra finishes worker, starts worker.
Medina finishes settler (headed to "N. Desert 2"), starts settler.

Turn 6 (1100 B.C.)
Two horseman are just outside of Baghdad! :O
Fustat founded at Farmers' Paradise, starts temple.
Two warriors raid two barbarian encampments, netting us 50 gold.
Khurasan finishes worker, starts warrior.
The two horseman head to Fustat.

Turn 7 (1075 B.C.)
Our archer defeats the first horseman without losing one HP.
The other horseman heads back toward Baghdad. A bit confused, eh?

Turn 8 (1050 B.C.)
Anjar finishes worker, starts warrior.
Damascus finishes settler ("Distant Floodplains"), starts settler.
Kufah finishes worker, starts warrior.
Medina expands. Spices not quite in range.

Turn 9 (1025 B.C.)
Korean worker heads toward Fustat to pop-rush a temple.
Aden built at "Iron," starts temple.

Turn 10 (1000 B.C.)
Our warrior defeats a horseman, but is redlined in the process.

Notes to next player:
- Send the Korean worker to join Fustat, then join city and pop-rush a temple ASAP.
- Settle the desert right where the settler and archer are standing. ("N. Desert 2")
- Send the western settler to "Distant Floodplains."
- Make sure every turn that Damascus doesn't riot. Connect the incense if you have to.
- Micromanage science next turn.
- Trade away math to everyone, the wealthiest first and the poorest last.

Interesting turn of events SD! I wonder if we will be able to get the horses in Fustat. I agree with pop rushing the temple there. But the worker will arrive there at the moment the city grows to two. And isn't it a risk to have a foreign citizen in a border town?

I'm ready to play, but await your comments. I'll be back 19.00 h CET / 13.00 h EST.

Question: why should I settle in the desert :confused:

EDIT: I very much like to build up a stack of archers to defeat the Vikings. I know that the archers are a dead-end unit (only upgrading to Guerilla. But I feel that the bonus, having half of the contient to ourselves, pays for that.

I also think we need to defend ourselves a bit against the Romans, since we are trying to culture-flip their town to us.

It will have tiles on grasslands, I think. Also, when the industrial era hits, rails and irragation will make it more fertile. Hey, those two cities have it in their bedouin(sp?)-blood I guess... :D (besides, it fits the build pattern... Our "first ring cities" are almost complete. Now, we're working on our 2nd - and third. Being expansionist really helps when you get that early settler - better yet, town!).

The one thing about mathemathics... (I hope you didn't sell it to Scandanavia) the AI knows how to use artillery-type units better... and how much did you sell them for? Other than that, looks like things are "settling in". ;)

Some tips for micromanaging:

Damascas can be micromanaged for a settler in 3 (wheat on forest or mined grassland)

Najran can have 2 worked grassland (1 SE of the hill, and one NE of the lake) placed on a rivered-forest, and roaded forest. The settler will be done MUCH quicker.

Medina - watch for rioting in two turns!

Mecca and put the worked lake onto a roaded forest (granary is completed quicker). Then build a settler after that. (2 if you can, otherwise, a spear should be next)

The key to expanding aggressively is to make sure your granaries and settler get out as quick as possible. Micromanaging should really begin in full when the city is at size two. Pretend you're on deity mode and have to get those settlers out before the city riots.

Chieftess, I'm only going to play at 19 h CET. So feel free to reply to my questions and give pointers. I will try to sell mathematics to the rich/advanced civs. I already noticed that Korea, Rome and the Vikings are those civs. I'm also reluctant to give Rome Mathematics... But if we don't, Korea will. So what's the point to exclude Rome and the Vikings and let Korea benefit?

Ok, I just edited my post. Also, we still have math - SD, then what did you trade? :confused: Personally, math is a tech I DON'T want to trade in PTW. BTW, no one has mathematics, but... selling lit isn't a good idea either, it equals the Great Library. However, the pyramids is a wonder we should look into. It gives free granaries (and we have over 7 cities. 7 granaries = approx. the cost of the pyramids) Rome is building the pyramids, but I can't tell how far they are. Once our settlers are done, we could start in Damascus, which looks to have tons of production. (we should build a temple first, though, and we need libraries soon).

Also, be sure to watch the tech rate next turn. We can take the monarchy track (map making is 9 turns away at this rate though) if we're going to be in a lot of wars. Once we dislodge that barb hut (apparently, the Vikings were avoiding it!? hmm...), we can get a road ASAP to that iron, and build lots of warriors before hand for a quick upgrade.

The two desert sites look to be next (one's on the edge, so with normal grasslands, it can produce 1 or 2 workers...). Also, don't forget about the SE. We're starting to hem in those Vikings! :D

BTW, the Vikings have mapmaking and Code of Laws. Two techs we can sue for on future conquest... Korea, too has those techs, as does Rome. I have a also have a gut feeling that we're on a continent with islands to the east and southeast... We'll also need to start thinking about where we want our FP. There's a mountian full of gems, and that tile 1 NW of the wheat (by what I'm guessing should be Rome) looks to be the PRIME target). Those floodplains, (just on irragation ALONE - without despotism/communism - can support 7 mountains and 1 hill before the city goes on "food reserve" - a.k.a., the "last 2 food"). That will be a MAJOR powerhouse for the industrial era, not to mention a source of income! With rails, it supports 10.5 mountains (10 mountains, 1 hill). And that's not counting the few tiles we can't see yet. (one of which is mountians - its peaking paste the fog - and another seems to be plains or a hill).

So, our FP should be somewhere near that lake. (BTW, we could trade maps equally... as the Vikings seem known). Because the Vikings are known, we can't simply raze their cities (rep hit), but we can "relocate" them... size them down to size 1, and what a few growth cycles for only our citizens to appear. Build a settler, then abandon when the settler is in place.

Rome should be our next target, and we should sincerly hope they do not have iron. No iron = no legions.

Originally posted by Chieftess
Ok, here's my turn:

Turn 0 (1500BC)

Micromanagment - Damacus will riot next turn. :cringe:


:confused:

Please don't tell me that meant hiring a specialist. I like to see these teams continue to move up in skill level, but specialist kill your growth and never let you get to deity level.

One of the human advantages in LUXURY TAX - use it to keep move citizens productive. The move food you build up in the settler source - the quick you can produce the next one.

Hey, we're only regents. ;)

The thing is, to make them happy, it raises the research by 1 turn.. (3 instead of 2...), but yes... it would get the settler out one turn quicker. (I know.. in the higher levels, it's best to buy techs and keep science at 0%)...


-------------------

@our team - we also have 13 warriors (mostly regulars, though) that are our future swords. Once our settler production winds down, we can start the spear/barracks production. We'll only need a central barracks for a quick upgrade, then we can have barracks at our productive centers. I would really like to have this side of the continent conquered by the middle ages. Then send our knights (Ansar Warriors) into Rome. Next would probably be Korea (unless we get a GL or two to rush the FP - we might want to use the first for an army). Greece should be last, as they have hoplites.

Also, here's the radius of our palace (optimal production) and the FP. The X (made a circle for easier viewing) is the approx. location of that production city, assuming we probably use Rome as the FP site. Being this is a regent game, the modern era will come much quicker, and it's location on the river means we can get Hoover. :D Production will be MASSIVE in that city - not to mention the gems!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/2radii.jpg

Note, the circles are an approximation (my Adobe skills aren't the best, and I copied it to PSP3 for the circle and line...), and you could probably extend the circles a bit until they touch.

BTW, when I said:

and take the Korean worker along (to poprush the temple, as it's close to Babylon)...

I meant a future temple at one of the desert sites (about 4 tiles SW of the Viking capital I think - the Desert 2 site)... not the one by Rome.

I have no idea why I said babylon... maybe I had something in the back of my head about the Babylonian culture in the Civ3 Demogame... :)

I'm back earlier than I thought. Will start now. Thanks for the pointers Chieftess. I'm going for Pyramids and if that fails switch to Great Library.

I will settle on the sites suggested by ShadowDragon, but the Korean worker goes elsewhere.

Remember, build it after we have enough cities (and have pinned the Vikings in)... I'd like a few more rounds of settlers first.

EDIT: *spoilers* removed

On the spices? Which one? That'll pinch the cities there a bit... (if it's the one I think you're talking about...) Anyway, if that warrior plans to stay (and it seems to be a new AI tatic in PTW... resource denial! :eek: Good one Soren!) Let that be a lesson for the next resource(s) we find. Defend with a unit! :D

First, I think we need a "War Road" (I would need to see the save to see how our infrastructure is now). That is, from our major production cities, to the Viking heartland (err... whereever that is... ;)). We'll also need more archers to break through the spears. We should lay out a battle plan, and this is mine: (from what I've read)

1 - Switch to archers.
2 - Have all workers start building a road near the Vikings.
3 - Move all warriors to a nearby town that has a barracks
4 - Save up on cash (if this means 0% research, then so be it. We'll get the techs for peace, back out, declare war and attack again).
5 - One the warrior is dislodged, have all workers (and a few spears) go on the iron tile to road it (and build a fort - if we happen to get construction). I have a sneaking feeling that the AI will try to knock out your resource in PTW.

As for the vote...

(Warning: Demogame humor ahead!)

"This is a council vote. Please vote yes/no/abstain. The poll will remain open for 48 hours or until a quorum is met." :p)

CivGeneral would get it...

anyway, I say no, not just yet.


On a site note: One thing to remember when placing cities is: Look at where the city radii are. If you build to far, you'll leave a gap that will never be used. Sometimes, very valuable gaps can be wasted. (take a look at the Civ3 demogame map - there's a spice and a gold mountain that will never be used...)

Another thing to think about is that the Vikings could have multiple units ready to descend on that iron city. So, declaring war might not be a good idea just yet...

Guys, if you don't micromanage Damascus (let it work the food tiles first), it will stabilize at a settler every 4 turns. Just thought you ought to know :)

I think you ought to veto the Pyramids. In 40 turns, we could have 10 settlers from Damascus. If you insist on building them, Medina's probably our best town if it has a decent population. The city at "Bay" (I forget its real name) is a good alternate location.

Urge Scandinavia to leave? Tough choice. I vote NO; we don't need the iron quite yet. If we're connecting Aden to our whole empire, it can wait until that connection is there. If we're connecting Aden to the horses and the iron, it can wait until we have a road to the horses.

Just looking in..
Please hold while i curse the "Q" word...
Quorum!!!!!!!!!!!!!
evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was also going to say that about the pyramids but forgot to mention it. That one city (it'll take a while to memorize the new PTW city names...) is a settler factory. It might be better in the capital after it builds a few settlers.

BTW, here's a note on the border tundra cities (future tundra). A forested tundra is sort of like a mined hill... except rails don't affect it.

Edited out - Aggie is retiring due to a lot of stress right now. The save will be replayed (which is probably rare in SGs).

I know that I'm not the best CIV player in the world. That's why I thought it would be best to join a regent game. A level at which a mistake can be forgiven. I beat monarch in single player games and obviously have a lot to learn, because I can't beat emperor.

I don't know whether it's my state of mind right now or the different expectations I had of this SG, but I think it's best for me to quit, as I seem to have done enough damage already. Feel free to replay my ten turns....

That's ok.. I know you've had a lot going on. I think this is an exception where we can replay those ten turns. Hope you come back when your mom is feeling better!

Announcement: When you upload a file, use the file upload at the bottom of the thread. Just remember to put http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/filename.jpg in the fields. It makes it easier if someone wants to quote the map.

It should look like this:

[ IMG]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/filename.jpg

(just remember to close the space. It's there so the tags don't trigger

OK, sure, will do! Actually, I'll update it with the new map from my last turn, then I'll do :P.

And just so everyone's clear about our settler factory in Damascus, here are the instructions to get a settler every 4 turns:
- ALWAYS work the two irrigated tiles in the city boundaries.
- NEVER work a tile that gives less than 2 food.
- Start a settler when there is four population and half-way to the next (five food, fifteen if you count what's in the granary). After that, start a settler each time one is finished.

BTW, viewing the Top 5 in the game, France and Carthage are the 2 other civs. Both are indurstious, and I think both are commercial too. So, don't be surprised if they know each other and are caught up in techs... (but, that might be a ways off)

Ok, everyone.. since we had a little chaos. I want everyone to wait until I clear things up a bit...

EDIT: n/a

Some excerpts:

Damascus is to be a settler factory, and we can save the temple for now while we claim land. Also, we're on Regent, which I believe the 3rd citizen is born unhappy. Be sure to micromanage before it riots.



ShadowDragon's Plan of Attack1) Iron
We can get both Iron and horses here with a temple and a colony, which we can use to upgrade to our UU instead of rushing with archers.
2) Containment 2
This is to prevent eastward expansion by other civilizations. Plus it will claim horses, which we can connect to build horsemen at home, send them to "Iron," and upgrade.
3) Hills (Defense)
This is primarily to deny the Vikings easy-to-defend land.
4) Bay
Grasslands (some bonus), with wheat nearby and a lake, so we can grow quickly to size 12.
5) Dyes
Low-corruption land on a luxury.
6) Wine
More luxuries, of which we can use one and trade the other away.
7) Loggers' Paradise
A bit of forest, but once we cut those down it will be high-production, low-corruption land.
8) Nothing-of-Note
This completes our first ring, although I placed it farther out than did Chieftess.
9) Bay 2 (Dolphins)
Claims dolphins and some grasslands, including two bonus grasslands.
10) Fishery 3
Provides tons of gold after we get a harbor and an aqueduct.


Settle in the -->clear<-- spots. That way, there's no overlapping of tiles, and it won't cripple cities where it counts.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/arabia2.jpg

Build pattern
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/2radii.jpg


More of my instructions for the next player
Things for the next player:

The SE warriors should take that barb hut (near our territory). One should be on sentry duty on the mountain so that area is safe for future settlement. The other should patrol the southern "no barb zone"... uhhh... far SE of Bahgdad... We should also start building cities (after "Farmer's Paradise" is built. We could build on -->"N. Desert 2"<--, and take the Korean worker along (to poprush the temple, as it's close to Scandanavia)... But, I would really like the productive areas to the south be built as well... Also watch the science rate as we near 0g, and 1 turn left.


[quote]ShadowDragon's Instructions to the next player[b]
Notes to next player:
- Send the Korean worker to join Fustat, then join city and pop-rush a temple ASAP.
- Settle the desert right where the settler and archer are standing. ("N. Desert 2")
- Send the western settler to "Distant Floodplains."
- Make sure every turn that Damascus doesn't riot. Connect the incense if you have to.
- Micromanage science next turn.
- Trade away math to everyone, the wealthiest first and the poorest last.



Also of note:

What our workers should be doing now

- Hooking up roads to other cities, AND future cities. We have 1 lux already (we don't need any more of the same type). Our cities are safe up until size 4. This also means starting to build north.
- Mining, then roading BONUS grassland within the city radii.
- Irragating wheat and irragate or mine cattle.
- Build roads to resources.

What our workers SHOULDN'T be doing

- They SHOULDN'T be mining/irragating desert at this stage, especially when the city (take Anjar for example), has 2 bonus grasslands and a forest game. More than enough for settler and unit production early on.

- We have enough bonus grasslands right now. They should NOT be mining normal grassland just yet.

- Jungles are tough right now, and our workers aren't industrious. They should NOT waste 24 turns clearing and 8 turns or so roading it.

----------------------------

Remember, we haven't left our expansion mode yet, and it shouldn't be until the 2nd or 3rd player after CG before we start to build up. Also, be sure to watch where you're moving your units. In lower levels, it's ok to make mistakes, but here, it gets a little tougher.

Another thing about attachments. Don't use the File Attach in the reply to message. It makes it harder to extract the file for further analysis. (i.e., posting it onto another post). Instead, use the File Upload at the bottom of the page. It helps a lot. :)

Also, at the end of your posts, be sure to leave instructions for the next player. When the next player starts (and I've said it many times ;)), Read the previous player's notes and instructions! Also, read the previous posts, it will make things MUCH clearer and smoother.

:hammer: :smoke: ShadowDragon, didn't you see me say "Wait!"? :) :smoke: :hammer:


Another thing, when you place your cities in relation to the map, be sure to use a guide so you don't get confused. IE, N. Desert 1 is 3 N, and 1 NW of Damascus. Make sure the settler is there before you settle, and always, ALWAYS double, and triple check.

OK, edited my last post. I have new dotmaps here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/arabia1.jpg) and here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/arabia-east.jpg)

I'll edit this out once you confirm :)

ShadowDragon - I think the Spices GoldHill and The Ranch could all be shifted 1 to the NE.

Here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/arabia-east2.jpg)'s what that does. The red X is a wasted tile, but fortunately it's only a desert.

It does free up tiles for Spices, though. I really don't mind wasting a desert tile, since it doesn't do anything (unless we want a 1-tile-city-with-a-specilist later on :)). We can affectionately call it "The Sandbox". But, don't put it there just yet... (put an X in it for now...)

CivGeneral's 10 Turns
The Grand Admiral's Exam

After a humiliating mistake, Chieftess has let me redo my save. I hope that I do not recive any more :smoke:s since my Demogame carrier totaly depends on it.

For all turns, I have all of the workers build roads to future city sites and also current unconnected cities. I ahve also Trippled and quaddripled check the Micromanagement. I also patroled the areas outside our territories for Barbarians

Turn 1, 975BC
Baghdad: Worker -> worker
Disperced the Barbarian tribe by the Desert tile that is 1 tile NW of Damascus and 5 tiles NE and settled Yamama on the same tile
Micromanaged Damascus to prevent it from rioting.
Have the Warriors patrol the area far south of Baghdad for any Barbarian threat
Had the settler by Baghdad move to the distant floodplain which is located 8 tiles NW from and 1 tile NE from Baghdad
Lowered the Science rate, luckly we can still get Mathmadics in 1 turn at 70%

Turn 2, 950BC
The romans wanted to talk with us.
Trade deal with the romans:

We want We give
Territory map Territory map
1 gold

The trade was susessful
Science: Mathmatics -> Map Making
Warriors on the coast, patrols for Barbarians

Turn 3, 925BC
Basra: Worker -> Worker
Damascus: Settler -> Settler
Kufah: Warrior -> Warrior
Sending the Settler from Damascus to the Desert tile that is 4 tiles NW and 3 tiles NE from Damascus

Turn 4, 900BC
Mecca: Granary -> Settler
Khurasan: Warrior -> Warrior
Sending newly built warriors to patrol against the barbarians

Turn 5, 875BC
The Korean Worker has reached to Fustat, giving him orders to join the city. Since there are not enough citizens to pop-rush the temple, I would have to wait untill it grows to a size 3 level
At this time, I went and checked to see if any AI civs has any preq for Mathmatics inorder for the Trading of Math to be sucsessfull
So far none of the civs has the preq for mathmatics at this time

Turn 6, 850BC
The Vikings wants to talk with us.
Trade deal with the vikings:

We want We Give
Philosophy Literature
I kindly refused his offer and sent him on his way
Noticed that Fustat has teached pop 3, time to pop rush the temple

Turn 7, 825BC
Khurasan: Warrior -> Warrior
Sent the built warrior to patrol the desert region NE of Medina
The City of Muscat has been founded in the Desert tile that is 4 tiles NW and 3 tiles NE from Damascus
The City of Mansura has been founded in the floodplain which is located 8 tiles NW and 1 tile NE of Baghdad
Sent a warrior from Kufah to defend Medina

Turn 8, 800BC
Kufah: Warrior -> Warrior
Anjar: Warrior -> Warrior
Damascus: Settler -> Settler
Narjran: Settler -> Spearmen
Sent the Settler from Damascus to the Grassland that is located 2 tiles SW and 3 tiles SE
Sent the Settler from Narjran to the Grasslands that is located 1 tile SW and 4 Tiles SE

Turn 9, 775BC
Fustat: Temple -> Spearmen
The Ottomans are building the Oracle
Continued giving orders to the workers
Continued patroling for Barbarians

Turn 10, 750BC
Baghdad: Worker -> Worker
Fustat's borders are expanding

End of turn 10.

Instructions for the next player
-Use one warrior that is garrisoned in Damascus and Medina to escourt the setter once it is finished
-Two settlers are heading to the Grassland that is located 2 tiles SW and 3 tiles SE (Damascus is the start point), and to the Grasslands that is located 1 tile SW and 4 Tiles SE (Narjran is the start point)
-Keep tabs on the Micromanagement
-Follow Shadowdragon's instructions for Damascus to optimize the settler production

Here is the save
PAD1 SG, 750BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/pad1_r_turn90_750bc.zip)

Well, there's 2 things...
1 - never give away your territory maps (the AI likes to use it to declare war on you). Plus, never accept the "first offer", always wager it.

2 - The Korean worker was NEVER instructed to go to Fustat. Never. It was instructed to go to the DESERT TOWN BY SCANDANAVIA. Does Neapolis look Scandanavian to you? :hammer::smoke::smoke:

Fustat has some growth/shields. Yamama does not. Very bad move... and Yamana is building a warrior. It should have been a rushed temple.

There's 2 workers building !? 2 roads in the desert by Yamana!? It only needs one going into the city, and one coming out of the north. We aren't industrious, so this is a waste. Medina also doesn't need an entertainer. Looks like the citizens of Yamama will still have to wander the desert. :)


Stuck_As_a_Mac is up next, but wait until ShadowDragon posts the new cartographic map. ;) (Gee, it's a mini-Civ3 Demogame in here. :p)

Some other things..

Muscat could build another worker, but it will need a temple. We're nearing the end of our expansion to the north and south. We need a road to that iron (also, fortify a unit on it, so we can pillage/road it as needed). We'll also need barracks (and extra cash flow to upgrade our warriors - that means cutting back on research). We can go for the spices last when we start conquering the Vikings.

Ok, why pillage our own iron? Because there's only 1 iron in our immediate area, and we'll only need it when we want it. That is, after we upgrade, if we're doing well against the Vikings (say they're down to a city), we can pillage the iron so that it doesn't vanish. Then, when we get pikes (and Ansar Warriors), we can road it again.

2 - The Korean worker was NEVER instructed to go to Fustat. Never. It was instructed to go to the DESERT TOWN BY SCANDANAVIA.Actually, I did :smoke:

Another thing about trading away your map: Make sure you trade it to everyone on the same turn. If you trade it to only one civ, that civ will turn around and sell it to everyone else. Then you've only made profit from one trade. On the other hand, if you trade it to everyone on the same turn, you get five times the profit (in this case). I had my eye on Rome's territory map, but obtaining it like this is :smoke:

But, I said to the other place... :smoke:

ShadowDragon's Instructions to the next player
Notes to next player:
- Send the Korean worker to join Fustat, then join city and pop-rush a temple ASAP.

I thought ShadowDragon said that he wants the next player to sent the Korean Worker to Fustat and have it join the city for a pop-rust :confused:

Also I must break the habit of trading maps to one Civ :cringe:.

CivGeneral's Opps Score card
Smoke and a Pancake: :smoke:X3

I thought ShadowDragon said...Rub it in, why don't you? :lol:

Originally posted by Chieftess
2 - The Korean worker was NEVER instructed to go to Fustat. Never. It was instructed to go to the DESERT TOWN BY SCANDANAVIA. Does Neapolis look Scandanavian to you? :hammer::smoke::smoke:

This might have been a GOOD move from me to decide to go to the desert town :cool:

Nad, if you see this in time, you can play ahead of Stuck. He has school in a few hours...

wow, this game has motored while I've been away. Looks good and I look forward to my 20 turns this round...

been reading through thread, since I've not played yet I don't think I'm in any position to vote on whether or not we crush vikings...if we do, its important we have very large military so we can crush in 1 rather than attacking in dribs and drabs; overwhelming force is the best way to fight in civ3.

Chieftess, I agree with playing cautiously but I don't think we need to be paranoid!!! Sure there's a flip risk in building cities close to opposition capitals, but it's small, especially as we are religious and our culture should wipe the floor with anyone else's pretty soon; and the benefits of the extra city, expecially with iron, far outweigh flip risk, so I'm glad we secured that iron. Similarly, disconnecting iron is over-cautious - disappearance ratio is pretty small, and if we do disconnect it, we have to build warriors if we want military! I say leave it be, if it disappears, that's life and a very unlucky RNG result, we can always take military route and secure another source; the hassle of disconnecting it is far worse

Originally posted by Chieftess
Nad, if you see this in time, you can play ahead of Stuck. He has school in a few hours...


Hey, I've seen it but I'm at work :sad: will get home at 18.00 GMT, so will play then if Stuck hasn't, otherwise I'll wait my turn

Yeah, that's 1:00pm my time (and Stuck's), so Stuck should still be in school.

[DG humor]
Via carrier Pigeon:
CT! Help me! Ive been captured by Boris7 and the Indians have got me! theyre forcing me to learn mundane facts i have no use for! you'll haveto go on without me for now! play... the.... 10... turns.....
See you at the Bluff!
SaaM
[/end DG Humor]
Im in school right now and im on a library machine. whoevers next, play the save. ill go on after them.

and i got it (the game, not the plague)

I will be playing very carefully so expect the save in a few hours time...

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
[DG humor]
Via carrier Pigeon:
CT! Help me! Ive been captured by Boris7 and the Indians have got me! theyre forcing me to learn mundane facts i have no use for! you'll haveto go on without me for now! play... the.... 10... turns.....
See you at the Bluff!
SaaM
[/end DG Humor]


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one Stuck :). I can see that the DG is infecting the SG ;).

ok guys, i played 10, figuring I could play my other 10 in my proper place in the round. Since we're still in the crucial early rounds of the game, and since we're still learning each other's styles, I'll provide a fairly detailed report for the team to criticize.

Inherited turn

first of all, looking at city placement, I note a few things; why have we setlled so aggressively near Neapolis? Was it to pinch the horses? We can get away with this at regent, but on higher levels that would be asking for trouble, an open invite for the Romans to sneak attack us. Secondly, I feel our core cities are way too close together, this is an advantage for now, but we'll be at a serious disdvantage if the game lasts past the early industrial age. Thirdly, individual cities are poorly placed, eg both Aden and Baghdad are one square from a river for no noticeable gain; and fourthly, we have not grabbed the spices yet (this is my priority for now). From the military point of view, I agree with the aggressive sentiment expressed earlier, the Vikings must die, and soon, before invention.

City survey - MM Mecca to get the most of the land - Mecca does not have enough improved tiles for my liking, this must be rectified ASAP; for some reason there is an entertainer in Medina (?!) - completely unneccessary; Damascus is looking awesome for settler production, although I do not understand why someone has mined a plains tile there, especially as this is next to an unimproved cattle square! And Basra - why, oh why, is it building a worker?!? Its shield box is full but it can't complete because its size 1! I do hope this has not been the case for too long, switched immediately to spear. Other switches: Khrasan to temple, Anjar to spear, Fustat to worker and Muscat to temple.

Diplomacy - we have no embassies with anyone yet, so I set one with the Romans straightaway (29 gold), Rome is building Pyramids with an uninspiring 120 turns to completion. Sheesh

The Vikings have literature, so there is no sense in hoarding that now, similarly I'm set to trade WMs (especially as we have already traded our TM away, and with all the AIs having Map-Making, soon they'll have our WM by trading TMs with each other). So my trades are:

Lit + WM to Rome for CofL, WM and 23g
WM to Greece for WM+ 30g
WM to Korea for WM+ 25g
WM to Ottomans for WM+ 1g (all they have), WM to everyone again for 1g.

use extra cash to build embassy with Vikings, they have 3 spears and are training an archer in Trondheim. Hmmmm. With Trondheim at size 3, they could as well be training a settler, especially with the amount of space they have, so why an archer? My suspicions rise, and I think we can expect some aggression from there in the not too distant future.

embassy with Korea for 35g, and with Greece for 44g; everyone is now polite, and we only lack embassy with Ottomans

science to Republic, evens (70%) 27 turns.

We are ready to rock, so i hit enter

IT - barb horse appears in north, near Aden
Yamama - warrior built, start temple

Turn 1, 730BC - Yamama warrior fortifies, archer begins to head north to help take on the barbs, miscellaneous troop and worker moves (henceforth, misc move). Guys, please don't leave units on "go to", especially settlers, even if you mention it in your post (as I think the last player did, to be fair); it makes it difficult for the succeeding player to locate them, and is very dangerous, especially as the settler may end its move next to a barb, and since auto-moves happen at the end of a turn, this would make it potentially impossible to defend a settler if it did end next to a barb.

IT - 2 more barb horses appear in north - yikes; Koreans build Cheju and solidify our western common border

Turn 2, 710BC - misc move and MM

IT - barb horses and galleys look menacing but do no actual damage
Mecca trains settler, starts spear, Medina likewise, Damascus from settler to settler, Kufah completes warrior, starts temple

Turn 3, 690BC - misc move, Bukhara and Aleppo founded on our southern coast, both start temples to get our culture going. Our archer attacks a barb horse, wins but is down to 2HP and faces the ungleeful prospect of facing 2 more barb horses in the interturn; RIP our archer, I think :(

IT - our archer staves off both the barb horses and is promoted to elite! :ninja: Basra completes spear, starts temple

Turn 4, 670 BC - jack to report, except diplomacy - Korea (only) has Polytheism, and is not interested in any sort of trade. I contemplate renogotiating peace, a la our illustrious leader, Chieftess. However, I am nowhere near as ruthless as the great chieftess, and do not commit such a dastardly act (if the next player decides otherwise, go ahead - at the end of my turn, Korea still had a monoploy on Polytheism)

IT - Najran trains spear, starts temple, Anjar completes spear, starts settler

Turn 5, 650 BC - nada

IT - nada

Turn 6, 630 BC - warrior clears barb camp in north, netting 25g. I build an embassy with the Ottomans, completing the set.

IT - baaaaad news. This is where it could get tricky - a Viking stack of 2 archers and 2 warriors emerges suddenly from the Trondheim fog, and moves towards Aden - I did kinda anticipate this. The only time the AI ever stacks units like this is when its on course for war, or planning a sneak attack - this is not a border patrol or an exploration stack. Aden has 1 spear and our wounded elite archer there. Its time to reassess.

Mecca completes spear, starts settler.

Turn 7, 610 BC - Shiraz founded near spices in east, a barb horse is now revealed, set to spear. Luckily I had plenty of military patrolling our border in the east, and I now begin to mobilize them into position. Several builds are switched to prepare for the onslaught: Najran changes to archer, Aden to spear, Yamama to spear, Muscat and Mansura whip their temples.

In a move that some would describe as risky, but others as visionary, I move our spear in Aden onto the iron mountain. Aden is now defended by a 1HP archer, but the Vikings cannot reach it this round; either they can attack our mountain spear (defence 4) or they have to move round the mountain, onto flat lands, to attack Sden, buying me 1 extra turn, in which time the new spear in Aden will be complete, and I'll have more reinforcements on the way. All-in-all, I think this is a great strategic move (without wishing to sound too smug, of course ;) )

IT - the Viking stack turns south - the spear did the trick, preventing them from occupying the mountain. 2 barb horses appear in east, threatening Shiraz

Damscus finishes settler, starts another, Muscat goes from temple to spear, as does Mansura, the Carthiginians build the pyramids, the Romans cascade to the Great Library.

Turn 8, 590 BC - much troop movement, Nerw founded and begins temple

IT - the Viking stack moves back into Trondheim's borders! Now I know that I did not misinterpret their action, that stack was definitely meant to sneak attack Aden until I prevented them from so doing; so I shall continue to be wary and expect the attack later.

Medina completes spear, starts settler, Fustat trains worker and starts spear, Aden completes spear and starts another

Turn 9, 570BC - Najran switched back to temple; misc move and MM

IT - the Vikings kill 2 barb horses near Trondheim - perhaps that is why their units withdrew, to fight the barb attack - if so, thank you very much barbarians, you've finally become a help rather than a nuisance!!!

Baghdad trains worker, starts spear, Khurasan completes temple, starts spear

Turn 10, 550 BC - misc move, Fustat and Aden whip spears

Notes to the next player - I have left lots of military units on our eastern border - I am convinced the Viking attack has been delayed rather than cancelled; do not put all your eggs in one basket and congregate the eastern troops around any particular city, instaed, keep them spread along the eastern border so they can respond to danger wherever it arises; try to occupy the high ground as much as possible, and try to keep the troops on roads if possible.

I concentrated on spears, settlers and temples in my 10; keep working on these, especially temples. I am a firm believer that you should always magnify your trait strengths, not use them as compensating factors; I always groan inwardly when people say industrious is great cos it means you don't need as many workers. :wallbash: true, if your terrain is perfected and all you're doing is cleaning up pollution in the late game, but for the rest of the game, industrious civs should build MORE workers, since each one they have offers greater value in being able to build improvements quicker. We as religious should similarly build as many temples ASAP, magnify our religious discount, and watch our culture dwarf the rest of the world's combined culture; we can then forget worrying about culture flips and keep every city we take. It also means that our territory will grow quicker as borders expand. Even the most corrupt city can build a temple in 11 turns for us, as long as it has one 2 food square (10 shields, then a pop-rush). So build those temples, comrades!!!

Next turn, the warrior/settler pair near Reykjavik should build a city where they stand, the spear/settler pair near Muscat should build a city on the forest exactly 4 squares north of Muscat. Apart from that, we're in great shape, at least twice the size of our rivals, so let's keep this going.

The file should upload to this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1550BC.sav

@Nad's preturn analysis - Yes, I agree and disagree. :)

1 - Horse City. Yes, I think that was a bit agressive, and it's not something I would normally do, especially with a city that will have mounds of production.

2 - Tight build. I used to be a skeptic on this one. Just look at the first Civ 3 Demogame. :) (Grey Fox's term 1 presidential thread). But, We won't have size 13+ cities until medicine, and we're a good era and a half away from that. It also allows for less corruption (vital in early wars). In antiquity, units are cheaper, and you only need 10 shields to produce units every 2-5 turns. More cities = more units. Also, look at the desert and jungle. It would have been a pain for our workers to spend 24 turns clearing jungle, and trying to irragate the desert. Lots of wasted work.

Hmm, I have a sneaking suspiscion that Carthage is on a large continent. Why? I just played the Trader's Delight scenario (or whatever it's called - 9x9 islands), and not ONE AI built the pyramids. Not 1. I wonder if they compare the cost of all granaries to a pyramid. That could mean they have room for (or already have) 7+ cities.

Also, it looks like it's the 2nd time the barbs have helped us.

1st - a barb camp to prevent the Vikings from settling west.
2nd - to stall a possible invasion

BTW, Stuck, remember to look at the city plan that ShadowDragon posted. It shows where to build your cities. Look at it carefully, and double/triple check.

Just a notice: Since there's 2 Pad1 teams, put an _R_, or b in the filename, like PAD1_R_1550BC.sav, or PAD1b_1550.sav. That's so if the warlord team makes the same filename, they won't accidently download ours. It prevents spoilers. Oh, and also put an underscore between the 1 and the year. :)

Also, how come you settled in a different spot than ShadowDragon's map? (the spices) Now there looks like there's going to be some gaps between those cities.. :cringe: :smoke: IMHO.

the link is fine, CT, its just that the server is very slow and has only just completed uploading (I posted the link before the save had uploaded). Also, here's a screenshot of our eastern front:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1EFront.jpg

Edit: All good points, CT, but no weed taken (I only do that at weekends). By building Shiraz where it is we can build another city on south coast. We should build one city 4 squares south / 1 square east from Medina, and then another city directly south of Shiraz - this makes best use of tiles IMO. Dotmaps are there as guides, but always need modification depending on circumstances. I built the cities in my turn where I thought they would work best, and which also fits in with future city strategy; it seems clear we are going for quantity rather than quality in terms of cities, and the location of the cities I built conforms to this.

By the way, this is the 550BC save, not the 1550 BC save. Game is getting excited now, and this really is an excellent rotation we have, whereby we're almost at the end of the 2nd round in 1 week of play!!!

besides, this way the spice city is next to a river, which it would not be on the original dotmap (100 shields saved already, as well as commerce bonus)

CivGeneral hands Nad a Smoke and a Pancake

Hmm, what to do with the gap ;)

I also made a city layout of our "Industrial Sites". I call it Industrial, since it's one of the only times I might use OCP. It's also OCP because I want to utilize the mountains to their fullest by the time the industrial era hits. I have a feeling that Carthage may be on a large continent by themselves (and France might be on a smaller one). On maps like these, there's usually a continent east or SE, then a small island to the north, or there could be a series of them. Anyway, I have 3 possible sites for our FP. I would REALLY like to have FP#2 as an unobstructed shield factory. Being that it's all flood plains (desert w/river) and mountain, now amount of global warming is ever going to bring that city to its' demise. It's a POWERFUL location.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_FP_Sites.jpg

Looks like a good plan, When would it be good to do a palace-prebuild for the Forbiden palace. Or should we save the palace-prebuild for our Major wonders :)

Also, on FB#3, is on a mountan, quite immposible to settle on a mountan ;).

opps! :wallbash:

Turn One: Arden builds spear, starts work on temple. Furstat builds spear, starts on another. Move settler warrior to Horse site, Settler spear to fish site 2N of Horse site.
Other then that, nada.
Turn Two: Damascus builds settler, spear in 3, then escort. Roading to Mansura. Roading to the Iron. Road to Aden in 3. Moving units closer to Viking cities for Intimidation/ in case of war.
End
Turn Three: Vikings in OUR teritory, bracing for attack.Mecca built settler. Waiting for spear on 4 as escort. Our forces > Viking Forces (just to let you know)
Turn Four: Glory Glory! Vikings declare war, City 2E, 1S of Muscat is raized. Plan to rebuild later. Elite archer killed by reg spear. Reg warrior kills reg archer. Balk founded in Tundra/Horses spot.
Turn Five: Spear on city rubble promoted, now elite. Warrior headed to trodenhiem killed. Damacus builds spear, send settler off with it. Moved to ruins of old city. Worker heading to iron now has spear protection, Iron must be ours at all costs.
Turn Six: After a brief diner break, I return. Siege of Rekiv begins. One warrior dead. Make that two. Dam spears...
Turn Seven: Trodenheim observatory force of warriors killed. more units! Road to iron will take 9 turns. Disobeyed the rules partially and moved Tundra/Fish site over by 1NE, to get the game. Units heading to Vikings. Advice for next player: Turn 6- iron comes on line. Get prepared for a massacer
Seven (cont) Building Baracks in damascus. Moved settler 1E of original city site(rasied city) for benifits of hill.
Turn Eight: Temple built in Kufha. Vikings moving units towards us. Prepare for an attack within next three turns. Mosul built on hill, 1w of destroyed city. Aydab built on city 1NE of tundra fish (a new map is needed. dearly.)
Turn Nine: We now have horses!!!!! Neapolis c-fliped to us, with horses! We now can build horsemen! Hope Rome isnt PO'ed. Dammit! Fleet intending to kill fortifed archer threating iron is killed, including elite spear :(. Sorry folks..
Turn Ten: My last turn. Someone with better military skills will take over, thank goodness. Damascus riots, i hire an entertainer. BTW, Republic in 7. No battles, just building. A note to the next player: a few settlers on deck, just wating for spears.
Thus ends my disaterous SG. I just hope the DG will let me back in :(

heres the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_r_350bc.sav

From what I see first, one big :smoke:

1. We're at war with the Vikings, and you built Mosul right on the border!! It's going to be their next target (again), and a waste of a settler!

2. Mosul is on the hill. That's defensive, BUT, on expansion, it's all desert, 1 forest, and 1 hill. That TWO grassland to the SW is now WASTED!

:smoke:

Why is Aden happily building a temple when there's 2 archers (1 elite), and a warrior by it's borders!? And another is within view!!

BTW, that was an ok move on the tundra one, it was one of my plans for that area.. (a more ICS type build).

Our settler factory is RIOTING!?!?!?!?!? Why wasn't any micromanagement done? We're being invaded, and our biggest city is rioting!

Ok, I've got the game, and I'm going to try and salvage some stuff. I also see no instructions for the next player, and where's that spear/settler pair going to? :smoke: :smoke:

Also, when you say "Elite archer killed by reg spear", say whose archer and spear they were, and where (and how) it was attacked. It gives a picture for the next player. Say something like "Our elite archer lost attacking a reg. spear fortified in the desert by Muscat".

Also, never, NEVER attack spears with warriors after 2500BC. :smoke: After that date, most civs will have a few spears defending the city. :smoke: Those warriors were for swordsmen upgrade! Our cities closest to the war front should have barracks, too.

And I'll say it again:
READ THE PREVIOUS PLAYERS INSTRUCTIONS

Note the plural. A plan of attack may start 5, 10, even 15 players back. Jot down in notepad what the battleplans are. Put the file on your desktop. Not to mention I even said that cities past size 4 will need to be watched for rioting! That wasn't prevented.

Also, be more clear in your turnplay notes. Here's an example:

Fleet intending to kill fortifed archer threating iron is killed, including elite spear

huh!? Did you attack with an elite spear!?

Anyway, this is an "I've got the game!" post.

Orriginaly posted by Stuck_as_a_mack
*Bling, Bling*! Fleet intending to kill fortifed archer threating iron is killed, including elite spear

Originally posted by Chieftess
huh!? Did you attack with an elite spear!?

Note from the Imperial Grand Admiral:
Spearmen, no mater what rank they are, should always be used for defense. It is too risky to use spears for offensive missions
Never use Spears in offensive attack :nono: ;).

guys, let's not get carried away in the criticism! First of all, stuck, could you outline how many units we lost and how many the Vikings? As the others say, this is not clear in your report. Also, whose cities got razed? Hopefully not ours!!!

Only obviously weedy move was attacking spears with warriors - suicide; I, for one, do not mind your adjusting of city sites - as it says in someone's signature, "no plan ever survives contact with the enemy" - city positioning must be organic, we cannot rely solely on masterplans.

anyway, war is one of the most fun parts of civ 3, so look forward to the following few turns!

another thing, you waited for the Vikings to declare war. What you could have done is demand they leave as soon as they moved into our territory (1 turn earlier); since they were intending a sneak attack, they would have declared, but we would have had the first strike to cripple their offense before they could attack our cities...this is not criticism, just a handy tip for future reference

@ everyone- next time will be more detailed. and as for units... we lost two warriors on the "suicide" attack of the city. two more were lost scouting trodenhiem. other then that it was the elite spear i mentioned and two more wariors in a stack atempting to kill the fortified unit NE of the iron.
Grand Death Total:
6,000 warriors, 1,000 Spears.

I guess I'm just used to the training day game. ;)

350BC... The Desert Chieftess begins her reign and sees the NE border in somwhat disarray! She also begins her assessment.

Aden is building a temple, and has 4 units bearing down on it. Why!? We only have 1 barracks, and it's in.. MEDINA!?!? That's almost on the fringe of our kingdom! And, there's 2 workers mining wheat and normal grassland by Aleppo when there's a bonus shield nearby! Mosul is now founded on the hill in the desert. Defensive, but that's the city's ONLY source of shields! The desert produces nothing! It has no immediate food on expansion! For some reason, Damascus is rioting. Why are there spears in our Back Lines? There's some worker bloopers down south as well... Perhaps the major miracle of that last turn was the culture flip. (never seen a culture flip THIS early in the game except for OCCs!)

Chieftess enters her quaters to read ancient texts of Charis and Falcon for military inspiration... The Vikings truely had headed west, and found a city of which they razed, pillaged and plundered all that they found.

Turn 0 (350BC)

I stop the worker mining the wheat, and the worker mining the plain grassland, and move them to the bonus grassland. There's a settler/spear pair that I'm not sure where they're going. Fustat is a very corrupt place, and doesn't need any mined plains. a normal plain = 1 food. 2 plains = 2 food, with 2 wasted = no more growth. The workers are stopped... There's also a worker building a road to the iron, but we have only 1 barracks. ALL the way down in Medina! I also discover a settler in Medina. Where's THAT one going? 2 settlers that I have no clue where the previous player intended for them to go. I saw no instructions. I also see a Viking Spear/Settler pair SE of Trondheim. Other civs look to be in the middle ages. It would be really nice if we had The Great Library. I look over at the past 20 turns, and reluctantly press enter...

Turn 1 (330BC)

The Ottomans speak. World Maps. I try for construction (fortresses may be better than kings or queens at this stage). Nothing. I try a peace renegotiation. It gets us closer, but still costs a pretty penny. Peace for Peace is fine. Atleast it's a 20 turn treaty that makes the AI happy.

Archer production begins. In between turns, the archers by Aden have curiously moved SE. There's a settler ready in Medina... I am moving it to the "Northern Forest". There's some spears and archers on autogoto again! Where are they going? There's another settler in Anjar... I notice that one of the proposed sites ("Whaling Town") was right on a game tile! That's a waste of 2 food. There appears to have been another spear on autogoto into Viking territory!? huh!? Don't tell me the previous players were on "suicide attacks". Not to mention the spear and archer... I really fear we just shot ourselves in the foot here... I again look around for trades, and none are availible. I try to muster up as many shields as we can. In 5 turns, we can switch to Republic, and buy some needed barracks and start upgrading!

Turn 2 (310BC)

The archers are still heading SE. Still no real attack. Moved the extra spear to defend Aden. And there's another archer on autogoto!? He went PAST Mosul! Hmm, the settler/spear is on the spot where I was sending the settler from MEDINA to! This is why detailed instructions are important. Our archers are slowly approaching Aden in hopes of an attack.

Turn 3 (290BC)

The Koreans start building the Great Library (in the plains city of Wonson! Ha! But, it might get 5-6 shields max). This is one wonder we must have at our slow rate now. There's now an archer-stack (3) on the mountain 2 east of Mosul. It seems everywhere I look, there's more worker inefficiencies. One clearing a forest in the plains when Baghdad still has some growth... Our first victory! An archer attacks the warrior just outside of Aden. Loses 1hp, but wins and is promoted to Vet. Settler finally stops at the spot I sent the Medina settler... Bayt Ras founded. We need to lure those mountain archers down. I brought out an archer from Mosul as a decoy (but still at a safe distance). There are barbs east of Stockholm. (Their problem. :))

Turn 4 (270BC)

Damacus just finished another archer, but I'm building a temple for cultural expansion, and some happiness (so it can grow - we need that Great Library as a backup plan). Two archers (1 was wounded, 2/3hp) watzed onto the plains, and my mountain archer defeated one with no damage. Iron will be connected in 2 (at the same time we go into republic). Republic will help our economy, and we can upgrade.

Turn 5 (250BC)

An archer attacks our mountain archer. Our archer loses 1 hp, but is promoted. That's 2 elites! Is a GL in sight? Our elite archer then attacks another archer, loses an additional HP, but no GL. North of Aden, I move 2 archers, and an availible spear to meat the Viking archer facing NE. We get republic in 1, so we micromanage and get 15gpt. Our gpt looks good, and I'll be lowering it for upgrades next turn.

Turn 6 (230BC)

The Viking mountain archer attacks our elite, and the elite loses, but knocks the archer down to 1hp (it is then promoted). Our spear by Aden defends against the other archer, but loses 2hp (reg). (BTW, who ever turned autosave off, please do not do this - if the game crashes, you have to start all over). Switched to Republic. Egads! We're losing 20gpt!? I think despotism is better for now. We make 20gpt at 0% with republic.

Turn 7 (210BC)

Despotism is much better, at +30gpt. That's almost 1 warrior to sword upgrade per turn! We placed an archer on a mountain, which defended against another archer and won! Reduced to 2 hp. Our archer in the north attacks another archer in the fields and wins, but is reduced to 1 hp. The spear will move there, and we will recoup. There's also a Korean spear/settler pair moving through our area. Our archers (some of them) are switched to swords! Micromanaged Basra to get a sword in 2 instead of 3.

Turn 8 (190BC)

Our first future Ansar is created in Anjar, a horsemen. An archer appears south of Reyv-something and our archer attacks, loses 1 hp, and is promoted to Vet. There is an elite archer just north of our small attack force by Stockholm. The attack force south of Rey-something is resting. Damacus upgrades our first sword! Another should be upgraded next turn!

Turn 9 (170BC)

The Vikings want peace, but have no techs! Their elite archer defeats our reg archer on the mountain, but loses a few hp. Damascus now has a temple! Basra completes a sword, and starts another. The Ottomans have completed The Great Wall! Our one mountain archer defeats a Viking archer in the fields. Our swords are starting to make their way to the warfront.

Tech trades

Nice! The Ottomans will pay a pretty penny for The Republic!

Construction, Polytheism, 4g, WM for The Republic

Korea has a bit more. The Greeks have currency. If we trade away Republic now, it may lose it's value. Rome would give Gems, and they have all 3 techs, but will give us one. We'll go with Greece to use Currency as our bargaining chip.

We get Currency and WM (all the Greeks have) for The Repbublic.

Next up are the Ottomans. We only want techs from them, the gold from Korea, and Gems from Rome. (Why do 'ya think I'm the Trade Leader in the Civ3 Demogame? :D) We get Polytheism, Construction, 4g, WM and TM all for The Republic! But, they go from polite to annoyed. hmm...

Next up, Korea. They would give us 103g, WM and TM for The Republic. That's 2 1/2 sword upgrades! We have 21 alread, so that makes 3 new swords!

And finally, Rome. Gems, 29g, WM, TM for The Republic!

Looks like The Great Library will be a mere distant dream soon. We're so close to Education now. We are now in the Middle Ages. The Age of Knights has begun!

As promised, 3 swords were upgraded!

Turn 10 (150BC)

OUCH!!! How could I forget! In the Middle Ages, it spawns barbarians. Our settler was in the spot, but a massive barb uprising RIGHT NEXT TO IT gave it no chance. There is one good thing. Veteran/Elite training for our reg swords.

Between turns. That spear I decided to place by the mountain with the elite archer defended and defeated that elite archer! We attack Stockholm with our elite archer. It dies but brings the spear to 1hp, but the spear is promoted. We have 2 more, but they're at 2/3 health. We have to wait for reinforcements. Our spear in Muscat jumped out and captured the Viking scout.


Instructions for the next player:

Move our archers away from Stockholm, as they need to retreat. Reinforcements are on their way. There's a Korean settler/spear pair moving through. Try to block it like this:

UUU
xSU
xxU

U = unit
x = terrain
S = settler/spear

There's also an archer/spear group resting south of Reykjavik (north). They can move next turn to try and take the city. There are barb horsemen east of Stockholm, and west of Balkh. We could take a chance that those horsemen will attack the poor Korean settler/spear pair.

I also have a spare settler in damacus. Use that to resettle once the barb threat is gone. (provided the Korean intrusion is gone too). Don't ask them to move, it will most likely put them north of our border.

150BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_150BC.sav)

Ok ShadowDragon, you're next!

OK, got it. Tomorrow is one of my school marathon days (2 college classes, a high school class, then back to college), as are all Mondays and Wednesdays. I may not be able to finish tomorrow, but I'll try. If I don't, I can easily finish on Thursday.

good stuff CT, partial recovery. Couple of points: firstly, there is nothing wrong at all with mining wheat on grassland; fast growth is nice but production wins games; just cos a city has corruption does not mean we should stop trying to produce shields!! With courthouses, a better form of government, connection to empire and WLT*D, even far away cities will begin to produce shields.

Secondly, a bit of a shock about Republic, though no real surprise; the cost was clearly the unit support we enjoy under despotism; since we're probably gonna be at war a fair bit, I think Monarchy should be our gov't until we have enough land, when we can later switch to democracy.

As for auto-saves, I hold my hand up to that, but I did not realize that my preferences would affect anyone else's computer!:eek:
I always have auto-save off cos I have a very reliable computer, thus I have no need for it (also, I have never ever reloaded a game for any reason, except, of course, breaks for food and sleep; I do not even reload if I make mistakes in movement, part of the game as far as I'm concerned). So sorry about switching them off, I just suggest that each player adjusts preferences for their own turn

I'm starting to play right now. If I don't post the save in two and a half hours, I probably won't finish today.

Highlights: Razed Stockholm and Trondheim, crippled the Scandinavians, withstood barbarians for the most part, got a lot of money, and formed a temporary line along our western border.

The save is at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_50AD.sav.

Turn 0 - 150 B.C.

My only two vetos are to change Medina's production to horseman, and to switch to Monotheism with a scientist in Aydab... When looking at those forces by Reykjavik, I accidentally move one of them, so I reload and redo my last move.

The huge stack of horsemen moves just outside Stockholm. Hopefully they will all attack next turn, ridding it of defenders, so that we can easily take it.

Kufah Swordsman -> Barracks
Khurasan Swordsman -> Horseman
Aleppo Worker -> Worker

Turn 1 - 130 B.C.

I move the Reykjavik invasion force into the city and see a veteran spearman. I begin retreating our archers to just outside Stockholm, preparing for another attack in 2 or 3 turns if the barbarians eliminate the defenders. I also block off the Koreans from going N, NW, or NE.

We are attacked by several barbarians in the north. Nobody is killed, and two of our forces become veteran, then elite. The barbarians in Scandinavia don't do much to Stockholm's defense, but many head toward their capital, hopefully to destroy their improvements.

The Koreans go east

Damascus Swordsman -> Horseman

Turn 2 - 110 B.C.

I gather more forces, and now the Koreans can only go west and southwest. Our attack of Reykjavik kills a spearman and gets another down to 2 HP. I will attack next turn with our surviving archer, who is at 4 HP (full).

Barbarians attack Stockholm, and I notice it has a barracks. Another Korean pair approaches our borders. I notice an Ottoman pair, too. They just won't give up, will they? Maybe we'll need a Maginot line across our whole border, or we'll just have to settle, and quickly.

Turn 3 - 90 B.C.

Our attack of Reykjavik fails, leaving our lone spearman, who fortifies in their territory.

The Romans offer territory map for territory map, but I kindly deny their request. One barbarian horseman attacks our (veteran?) spearman fortified on a mountain, the one with iron, and wins, capturing a worker. What a disaster! I bet he'll pillage next turn, but we have no nearby forces that can attack. Another Ottoman pair approaches.

Basra Spearman -> Barracks
Fustat Spearman -> Courthouse

Turn 4 - 70 B.C.

Sure enough, the barbarians pillage our iron. The Greeks start building the Great Library in Delphi, where they are now getting four shields at best, and potential to get to seven until their workers make more improvements.

Mecca Swordsman -> Horseman
Medina Horseman -> Horseman
Damascus Horseman -> Settler
Najran Barracks -> Horseman
Bukhara Spearman -> Horseman

Turn 5 - 50 B.C.

Fourteen of our units stand outside Stockholm, ready to easily take that city then Trondheim.

Khurasan Horseman -> Horseman
Balkh Spearman -> Warrior
Aleppo Worker -> Warrior

Turn 6 - 30 B.C.

Mansura has been pillaged, killing one of our people. But it's only a corrupt little town anyway.

Anjar Swordsman -> Horseman

Turn 7 - 10 B.C.

We attack and raze Stockholm, freeing up our forces to head immediately to Trondheim.

We lose three people from Najran because we diverted our forces west.

Damascus Horseman -> Settler
Baghdad Swordsman -> Barracks

Turn 8 - 10 A.D.

Our northern spearman dies trying to clear the way for a settler.

Turn 9 - 30 A.D.

We raze Trondheim with only minor losses. Bergen is our next priority.

Medina Horseman -> Horseman
Basra Barracks -> Horseman
Merw Temple -> Worker
Mosul Archer -> Warrior

Turn 10 - 50 A.D.

I disperse the barbarian camp at the east side of our continent. Workers start clearing forest near the center of our glorious empire. Two more start clearing one near Mecca.

Notes to Next Player

Fortify to allow the forces outside of Bergen to recover, then attack. If there are enough forces left, they should then attack Oslo and Copenhagen. Build infrastructure in the cities around the workers clearing the forest so that they can use the full 10 shield bonus. Settle like mad so that the others don't send galleys to our east, then you can stop the horrendous waste that is the line along our border. However, don't build settlers in high-production cities that can grow above 6 without an aqueduct. Replenish the military police I sacrificed for the line. We don't have to really worry about culture flips to the Scandinavians any more now that they have close to zero culture, so you can capture their cities now, especially the ones in the correct locations.

Razed!? You warmonger you! :p There goes our reputation... Anyway, I would like that hill city (next to the ruins) relocated onto the ruins, as we'll get those 2 wasted grassland tiles.

I'm going to be late to school now :eek:. See what Civ III can do to you? I'm glad the teacher doesn't care :)

Originally posted by ShadowDragon
I'm going to be late to school now :eek:. See what Civ III can do to you? I'm glad the teacher doesn't care :)

:lol: :lol:

I can also see that this:
City A: Object A -> Object B

is catching on :)

OK, Nad is up!

3 - Nad
4 - Stuck_As_a_Mac
5 - CivGeneral
6 - Nad

Nad will "play twice" this round so he gets the same numbers of plays as everyone else.

excellente!!!

Looks like a nice fun turn, bit of warmongering never goes amiss.

This is a got it when I get home

but given that I've just spent the last 3 hours playing 10 turns of the N1 Persia succession game, I don't have a lot of time left tonight and I don't want to rush these turns when we're at war, so I will have the save back by tomorrow

and this is the summary. I decided to do another quite detailed report at this early stage in the game.

My objective in this round was to prosecute the war against the Vikings succesfully and to a decisive end (ie, Viking death), but not to neglect our empire-building in the meantime.

Inherited turn, 50AD - I almost panicked when I saw the number of cities we had undefended, but thankfully they were all in the center of our empire and safe from attack. Nevertheless, a naval invasion could cost us later in the game if the AIs land fast units (eg cavalry) and cities are vacant like this. No problems for the moment though. I made a number of switches to build instructions: Medina changed to settler, Najran to spear, Anjar to spear, Fustat to spear, Mosul to temple, Bakh to temple, Muscat to a horseman and whipped, ditto Mansura and Bukhara, Aleppo to spear, Bayt ras to spear, and temple whipped in Shiraz.

A big thank you to the last player for leaving me plenty of military, especially outside Bergen :goodjob: I wake the uninjured units and move into Bergen to attack next turn. Lots more military movement. I like the Maginot Line in the west:) Its keeping the AI settlers at bay

Diplomacy - why is everyone so annoyed at us?! Perhaps they fear that their turn to feel the Arab whip is not so far away:D

Little tip: with the Koreans and the Ottomans already possessing Monotheism, if we're going to do 1 scientist research, it should really have been for Feudalism, or, better, engineering (which the AI often neglects). If we were researching properly then monotheism would have been a good choice, because we'd have been researching at 3rd and the cost to research would have dropped. But if we're going for a 1 beaker gambit, it doesn't matter what we research, it will still take 40 turns, so we should go for something the AIs do not have, so we can trade at a monopoly if we got to engineering before the AIs. Since we're already 10 turns or so into monotheism, I do not alter this, but what I have described is something to bear in mind for future.

Also, without any iron connected, we might as well be researching properly (as we can't upgrade swords), but then again, a nice treasury is always handy, and we can easily catch the rest in research later, so I'm happy to carry on 1 beaker research.

Interturn: settlers in west turn back, realizing they can't get through our line. Mecca completes horse, starts settler; Damascus trains a settler and starts another; Najran trains spear and starts another; ditto Kufah; Muscat trains horse starts spear; Mansura trains horse, starts barracks; Bukhara completes horse and starts spear; and Shiraz builds a temple and starts a granary.

Turn 1, 70AD - locate another barb camp to the north east of Medina. Lots of troop movement and waking of fortified units, and a battle.

The attack on Bergen:

reg sword vs reg (fortified) spear: our sword knocks the spear to 1HP but perishes in the process. If only we had some vet's:(
reg sword vs reg (fort) spear: we win w/o damage!
reg sword vs unfortified reg spear: our sword only does 1 damage and dies:(
reg sword vs 2HP spear: again we only do 1 damage and die. The spear promotes. The RNG is not being kind to us.
reg archer vs 2HP spear: our archer takes 1 hit but wins
vet archer vs 1HP spear: archer loses 1HP but wins, Bergen is ours, with 2 resistors; set to spear

IT - resistance in Bergen ends. We lose a Viking slave to a barb ambush. Khurasan completes horse, starts settler; Anjar completes spear, starts temple

Turn 2, 90AD - lots of movement, our conscript western warrior (who is actually a swordsman!) kills the barb that killed our slave, and is promoted to regular. Our horse kills a barb warrior in the north, another horse clears the barb camp NE of Medina, I whip a rax in Baghdad, whip a spear in Muscat, part-whip a rax in Mansura, whip spear in Bukhara and part-whip granary in Shiraz (I like whipping:lol: ) (and all the whips were justified and calculated to net max benefit)

For some reason there is a fortified worker next to Neapolis?! Please don't fortify workers, comrades, they are difficult to pick up, and 2 turns have been wasted for me to spot this.

IT - Baghdad completes rax, starts spear; Aden trains sword, starts temple; Muscat trains spear, starts worker, as does Bukhara.

Turn 3, 110AD - misc move, horse clears barb camp in north, and Bergen whips a spear

IT - Mecca trains settler, starts horse; Bergen completes spear, starts temple; Bayt-ras riots - my bad, for not spotting that while micromanaging.

Turn 4, 130AD - Suhar founded in the north and starts a temple. Horse drops to 1HP but beats a barb horse. I move horses to Copenhagen and....uh, hello, is anybody home? Copenhagen is undefended now (it wasn't a couple of turns ago). This happened to me in N1-Persia as well, when taking out the Zulu. I guess my reputation is so fearsome that even aggressive militaristic civs the world over drop their weapons and flee in terror at the prospect of facing me!! Anyway, I fortify 1 horse outside - I don't want to take it yet because it will auto-raze, so I will wait til it grows to size 2.

Baghdad whips a spear, and i press enter

IT - Damascus completes a settler and starts another; Baghdad completes spear and starts a granary; Kufah trains a spear and starts another; Barsa completes horse, starts granary; and order is restored in Bayt-ras (the citizens heard of my penchant for whipping and decided they'd be better off NOT attracting my attention).

Turn 5, 150AD - Now wtf is going on here?!? Oslo is now also undefended. Come on Ragnar, i wanna fight you, dammit. Give your spears a spine so I can break it with my swords. Once again I park a unit outside and move on.

A barb is spotted in the south, where I have loads of settlers heading. Argh :mad:

IT - lots of barb activity in the SE peninsula - we need military there ASAP. Medina trains settler, starts spear; Aleppo completes spear, starts aqueduct; Bayt-ras completes spear, starts a temple.

Turn 6, 170AD - Now this is no longer funny. Reykjavik's defenders also disappear. The Vikings must be running -ve income, and hence, being forced to disband all their units. What the hell, I can't be arsed waiting, I take all 3 undefended Viking cities, knocking them out of the game; Reykjavik and Copenhagen are auto-razed, Oslo is captured (as that was the cap and had culture; in hindsight I should have taken Oslo, waited 1 turn, the new cap would then have had 1 culture, so I should have taken that, and then repeated. Oh well, you live and you learn).

I begin to move military to the south-west to counter the barbs. Balkh whips a temple.

With the war over, I buy Monotheism form Greece for WM and 439g. I start engineering, due in 23 at -3gpt.

IT - Balkh completes temple, starts worker
Palace expansion

Turn 7, 190AD - reg horse kills barb horse w/o dmg. lots of troop moves. Now we're at peace I switch Mecca to a market and Medina to a granary

IT - Najran completes spear, starts granary.

Turn 8, 210AD - misc moves. Switch both Kufah and Fustat to granaries.

IT - Damascus completes settler, starts another. Our gem deal has ended.

Turn 9, 230AD - zzzzzz

IT - Khurasan completes settler, starts rax; Merw completes worker starts rax; Aydab completes temple and starts harbour.

Turn 10, 250AD - horse clears barb camp in SE.

Notes to the next player: I have lots of setllers currently on the move, 5 or 6 I think; settle where you think best and according to previous dotmap plans. I also have loads of military units fortified in the open or moving around. Military is still verty important. Use them for barb prevention (I have a couple of units fortified to clear fog in east), as coast patrols (to prevent AI setllers landing), and do maintain the western Maginot line while we settle our eastern backlands. At the end of my turn only 2 cities lacked defenders - Baghdad, but that has a spear next to it ready to garrison next turn; and Mansura is the other, and that's on the western coast, so try to find a unit to get there urgently, but without disturbing the Maginot Line. Also think about getting perhaps 2 defenders per city (they also act as MP in despotism/monarchy), and building more spears to release offensive units which are currently acting as garrison (especially warriors, so we can upgrade them and start massing in the west).

We are really hurting for workers. I couldn't prioritize them in my round because of other needs, but the next 2 players should really try to crank out as many workers as possible, because we now have a very large but alos unimproved empire. We also desperately need to hook up the iron and the spices!

Trade as much as possible. I sold WM consistently in my turn. Also watch out for tech opportunities. At the moment Korea alone has monarchy, and we are at parity with everyone else. With regard to gov't choice I think we have 2 routes we can head down: either we could build growth infrastructure as quickly as possible, especially granaries, aqueducts and markets, and then switch to Republic, have an extended period of peace in which we complete most other infrastructure, develop our lands and race into a science lead. Or we could get some crucial production buildings out of the way, especially rax and courthouses, revolt to monarchy (assuming we buy it later, preferably at 3rd or lower), race to chivalry, build Ansars, declare war and trigger our GA, and try to knock another couple of civs out as quickly as possible. Personally I'm undecided, and I think we should have a team decision on this one.

Finally, to the next player, make sure you adjust the game preferences before you start (eg, I have auto-save off, you might want to have it on).

Enjoy!!!

The save is here:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1r-250AD.sav

One thing I love about medival UUs is the "cultural GA". I call it that because of the cathedrals, universities, and even wonders that you can build. We should really go for some of those (like Sistine, Bach, Shakespeares)...

I almost panicked when I saw the number of cities we had undefended, but thankfully they were all in the center of our empire and safe from attack.I did that to form our "Maginot Line."

A big thank you to the last player for leaving me plenty of military, especially outside Bergen :goodjob: I subscribe to the doctrine of overwhelming force. :ar15::hammer: :ar15::hammer: :ar15::hammer:

why is everyone so annoyed at us?!Razing undefended cities might have had something to do with it. :lol:

[W]e should go for something the AIs do not have, so we can trade at a monopoly if we got to engineering before the AIs.The AI didn't have it when I started the research.

Also, without any iron connected, we might as well be researching properly (as we can't upgrade swords)I figured we could use our savings to upgrade horsemen en masse once we reconnected the iron.

settlers in west turn backYou should have seen it during my turn. IIRC, there were six settler/spearman pairs trying to get through. :mischief:

For some reason there is a fortified worker next to Neapolis?!This is probably from my "Maginot Line." I had to use whatever forces I could, including workers, until I could replace them with military units.

Or we could get some crucial production buildings out of the way, especially rax and courthouses, revolt to monarchy (assuming we buy it later, preferably at 3rd or lower), race to chivalry, build Ansars, declare war and trigger our GA, and try to knock another couple of civs out as quickly as possible.I vote for this option. Our borders extend next to Rome thanks to that culture flip, so we can take their capital in one turn IIRC, triggering a perfectly-timed GA, which we can then use to take out the rest of Rome and the Ottomans. If we get a great leader, we can rush the Forbidden Palace right away, giving us a second productive core of cities. Once we have done that, Greece and Korea should be easy to take out. IMHO, we're in a prime position for early domination.

I just hope the RNG is friendlier this time around...

Ok, Stuck, you're up! Just remember to settle 1 NE of the game, not on it. (I haven't looked at the save yet). It's a building period. Enjoy. Just some advice:

Don't connect the iron until we really need it. Keep building horses, and when we get Chivalry, connect the iron and upgrade. The reason for doing this is so that we don't lose our precious source of iron.

If you can, relocate Mosul to the site 1 west. It will get 2 grasslands, and we can use that for a worker every 10 turns.

Damascus - I really didn't like those cattles irragated. We have enough food from the wheat. You should have kept atleast one of them mined IMHO. But, it should also be a worker factory, too.

When you place the cities, use the grids to see where the city radii is. That will help you in placing so that you don't miss and tiles. Also, look at the dotmaps, too.

I have the save! Lets try for fewer then three! (and that CT wont yell at me in the room)

SaaM Turn Time Two:
Preturn: I placed a taxman in Aleppo. It lowers our deflict to two. This is the same reason Penguin has a scientist (see DG)
Turn One: Neapolis builds temple, library in 80. Move settler 4NE of Bergen. Another heads towards some ruins. I did NOT tuch the line. Settler reaches NE of horses. Will settle next turn. I am abandoning Mosul on CTs advice and rebuilding in in 2 turns (wont abandon till it gets there) Change Mosul to worker. Plan on reroading to iron. End turn
Turn Two: Wang Kong offers to trade maps, one on one. I accept. Barbs fail a raid on Medina. Settler reaches NE of Horse, I settle. Taif is founded. Temple in 30, and I send a spear over.
Turn Three: Built Hama 4S,1W of Shiraz. Temple in 30, horseman holding it until spear comes. Mosul The Third built 1W of Mosul, Mosul torn down. Traded WM with Greece. Gotta work down that budget hole.
Turn Four: Would you believe me if I said nothing happened? Well, nothing happened.
Turn Five: I decided Damacus is good for a prebuild. Im building the GL there, but I hope for Sistine, Leos or Sun Tuz. I am mining the cattle, tearing up the irrigation. Built Sana'a on some ruins surrounded by spice. Temple in 30.
Turn Six: Mecca in disorder, place an entertainer there. Built Shihr 3N, 2E of Taif. Dare i custom name a city :P. Nah.. Temple in 30.
Turn Seven: Mecca builds market, cathedrial in 10. Basra builds granary, market in 20. Balkh builds worker, Library in 80. Bayt Ras falls into disorder, hire a troupe of actors to please the people. Built Yamama on some ruins in a tundra. Temple in 30.
Turn Eight: Mansura needs actors too, so i hire some. Other then that, Nada.
Turn Nine: Dont think I screwed anything up yet, so lets see if it can stay that way! Medina starts work on a courthouse. Beware of lawyers! Khurasan starts work on library. Carthege builds GL.. Crap... now I need a place holder. Starting Place Prebuild. A note to next player: see if you can milk monarchy out of Ottoman or Korea. We could build HG.
Turn Ten: Well, heres my ten turns. Connected upper cities to trade network. Net player: PLEASE CONNECT THE IRON!
Here you are:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_r_350AD.SAV

Personally, I wouldn't connect the iron just yet... Atleast not until we have horses for upgrades. Stuck, when you put the turns, also put the year down, too. I also think Basra needs a cathedral more right now. BTW, we should think about building a galley or two to for exploration. There's 2 possible "launch sites" for "suicide missions". east of Taif, and west of Istanbul.

Another interesting point of note. The Ottomans and Romans have no horses! Rome has no iron! This means no UU for the both of them! Korea probably has saltpeter (should they survive that long). When we DO get our UU, we should stop trading techs, and only sue for peace when the next civ is down to their last city.

I have got it

Here is my "got it" post :).
Are there any special instructions I should know before strting my 10 turns :).

CivGeneral's 10 Turns

Pre turn - 350AD turn 0

Anylized the current situation

Changed Barsra's build queue from Marketplace to Cathedral

Turn 1 - 360AD

Gave workers orders to build roads to help bost our commerce

Sent military units to Pompeii for a military build up against the Romans

Settled in the Viking ruins 4 tiles NW of Shihr
City Founded: Fez

Turn 2 - 370AD

Continued Giving orders to workers to connect our cities. (And making sure that we dont connect the iron untill the right time)

Continued sending troops near Pompeii (No wars has not been declared, the units are moving to the tile 2 tiles SW of Neapolis

Checking Micromanagement

Turn 3 - 380AD

Continued sending troops to The tile 2 tiles SW of Neapolis

Kufah: Granary -> Cathedral
Mansura: Barracks -> Horsemen

Continued Giving orders to workers to connect our cities.

Checked up on Micromanagement

Turn 4 - 390AD

Continued sending troops to The tile 2 tiles SW of Neapolis

Continued Giving orders to workers to connect our cities.

Checked up on Micromanagement

Turn 5 - 400AD


Continued sending troops to The tile 2 tiles SW of Neapolis

Continued Giving orders to workers to connect our cities.

Checked up on Micromanagement

Rushbuilt the Cathedral in Basra, The city cannot support 3 entertainers since the city is almost to the point of a civil disorder.

Checked up on who has what in trade
The Ottomans have Monarch and Feudalism. They are not willing to trade no mater what
Same with Korea, Greece, and Rome

Turn 6 - 410AD
Science: Engennering -> Monachy
Adjusting sci rate to keep bringing in gold so we dont get into debt in the future

Basra: Cathedral -> Harbor

Continued Giving orders to workers to connect our cities.

Checked up on Micromanagement

Continued sending troops to The tile 2 tiles SW of Neapolis

Turn 7 - 420AD

Mecca: Cathedral -> Library

The Romans are building the Sun Tzu and Hanging Gardens

Continued Giving orders to workers to connect our cities.

Checked up on Micromanagement

Continued sending troops to The tile 2 tiles SW of Neapolis

Turn 8 - 430AD

Continued Giving orders to workers to connect our cities.

Checked up on Micromanagement

Continued sending troops to The tile 2 tiles SW of Neapolis

Najran: Granary -> Courthouse

Turn 9 - 340AD

Continued Giving orders to workers to connect our cities.

Checked up on Micromanagement

Continued sending troops to The tile 2 tiles SW of Neapolis

Turn 10 - 450AD

Continued Giving orders to workers to connect our cities.

Checked up on Micromanagement

The Troops has reached The tile 2 tiles SW of Neapolis

The Romans have contacted us.

We give They give
World Map World Map
I know that we are going to declare war against the romans so I kindly denied the offer

The Ottomans have contacted us, They demand that we give them enginering. Since there is no option on a counter proposal, I kindly declined the demand while I crossing my fingers hoping that he would not declare war on us. In a stroke of luck, the Ottomans has respected our declination of his demands and we are still at peace with them :).

Another Stroke of luck, a palace upgrade :D

WLTKD is happening in Mecca :party:

End of my 10 turns

Turn 10 - 450AD Postturn

The Troops are ready to attack Rome, our defenses are excellent. We are gaining the lead in culture. :)

Instructions for the Next player:
Declare war, attack Pompeii, keep tabs on the happyness in cities without Cathedrals and are greater than 4,

PAD1 SG Save 450AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_r_450AD.SAV)

Another suggestion, try trading engineering to everyone for as much as possible. And for any techs possible. Select engineering on our side in a trade deal, then start clicking techs, gpt, gold, maps on the AI's side. I also noticed something else very, very :smoke:. We're mining normal grassland tiles when there are bonus grassland tiles NEARBY! This is a waste of worker actions. normal grasslands yield 1 shield when mined. Bonus grasslands yeild 2. And CG, I said only mine ONE cattle. Not two. :)

Originally posted by Chieftess
Another suggestion, try trading engineering to everyone for as much as possible. And for any techs possible. Select engineering on our side in a trade deal, then start clicking techs, gpt, gold, maps on the AI's side. I also noticed something else very, very :smoke:. We're mining normal grassland tiles when there are bonus grassland tiles NEARBY! This is a waste of worker actions. normal grasslands yield 1 shield when mined. Bonus grasslands yeild 2. And CG, I said only mine ONE cattle. Not two. :)

http://apolyton.net/forums/images/smilies/debatinwitdornan.gif

Doh! Thats it, next time, I am slowing down and actualy Pay attention to the instruction sets and Pay attention to the grassland properties :wallbash:.

Anyway, Nad's up next again to get his "missing turn", then we start back on the normal cycle.

oh boy, this rotation is pretty quick! I only played last night, and now I play this afternoon...excellent!!

Will take a look at the game. Got it (when I get home)

When half of us are in the demogame and in the chatroom, it goes at 10 turns per hour or two. :)

just a couple of points, thinking ahead to before I play. Do we have a monopoly on engineering? If so, I will only sell it if the offers are good enough. Do we have feudalism and chivalry? If we want to declare war, I'd prefer super fast units to blitzkreig. Then again, if the Romans have no iron...:lol: :lol:

The Damascus cattle - its ok to mine them once we reach size 12, as then we won't need fast growth until hospitals. If anyone else has any suggestions, please chip in. It seems that we have de facto agreed to the aggression approach rather than the build approach, so in that sense despotism might be more useful than monarchy, for the extra unit support and the ability to pop-rush captured cities. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to these turns.

We should trade engineering for as much as possible. We don't have fued. or mono., and I think Rome does. The AI loves to head for Sistine. Don't just get the first offer, but see what's on the bargaining table for both sides. Even toss in a WM for both sides if you want. Sometimes, renegotiating peace with civs (that you won't attack in 20 turns) can be helpful (you might get techs cheaper). Also, if you trade (I checked, Rome seems to have some stuff - this is done in the demogame all the time. :D), we'll have fued. Fuedalism = Medival Infantry! :D We would delay the war with Rome a few turns to upgrade our swords (and the western warrior.), especially since Rome is getting up there in size. (I think the AI defends their capital better). Hopefully, Rome won't crumble like the Vikings did.

we do have monotheism (I bought it) - feudalism might well be useful if we're going to war. Then again, if we're gonna attack Rome, we can extort feudalism for peace. If the best they can manage is defence 2, then even swords should be enough for us. Anyway, will rely on judgement once I see the game

With our luck with the RNG, I just don't want to take any chances... Plus, Rome is a city (25% bonus - spears have 2.5, almost as high as a sword's attack).

Here's why I think we need Med. Inf. for Rome.

Rome is on a hill: 50% defense bonus
Rome is a city: 50% defense bonus.

That's 100%! They have spears, 2 defense. With the bonus, it becomes a defense of 4! Consider ourserves lucky that they have no iron. Otherwise, we'd be facing Legions with a defense bonus of 6!

Veii and Vironicum are also on a hill.

Once we get Feudalism, we should connect the Iron we have. We should tread cautious when attacking hilly cities.

I just did a test on that one proposed city site by the "Gem Mountains" (DG humor) (the one 2 NE of Veii). With irragation, it gets to size 12, and 8spt. Switch to monarchy, and it's a STAGERING 22spt! ouch! At full throttle (excluding factories and Hoover), it's 41spt (43 if we mine 1 desert). That means rails, too.

With a factory, nuclear plant, and Mfg. Plant (if we don't win by then - and I think you can have all three), that's a 200% increase in shields. That's about 129 spt! Factor in mobilization, and you've got maybe a 250+ spt city! (A PERFECT place for a military academy. Or nukes). I'm not positive on the end result though, since I've rarely gotten to the modern ages, much less getting Mfg. Plants. (We should on regent!). The great thing is, global warming will never affect it! Never!

I think an overview rather than a turn-by-turn summary would befit by turns this round.

Pre-turn survey - by my reckoning we have room still for 6 or 7 cities in the eastern portion of our empire. At the moment our core cities are packed together but our colonies are far apart:crazyeye: should be the other way round. Out of interest, whoever founded Taif, please explain to me why it was built where it was, and not 1 square south :spank: :p

Baghdad and Mansura are still undefended, despite my explicit plea to the contrary after my last turn! They are both in the west of our empire and vulnerable to a couter-attack. Mansura in particular is very vulnerable - if we're planning war with the Romans, they can sail a galley there in 1 turn, and even if they dropped 1 unit off, we would not be able to defend that city. Definitely :smoke: in my opinion.

Don't mean to sound harsh but I'm not too impressed with the micromanaging and the build instructions. There are entertainers where there shouldn't be and cities which can grow are not growing because of bad tile use. As for build instructions, that's more a case of preference but we should bear in mind that we've decided to take the aggression channel, and build accordingly. Libraries can wait; we're going to war, we're going to be using our military to gain techs. Courthouses, otoh, can not wait; if we want to win, we have to produce. I adjust build orders accordingly.

Slate me if you will but I ended the palace pre-build in Damascus, as I cannot understand any logic in that decision. Damascus' strength is food - it has 2 cattle and a wheat. It also has lovely grassland and plains. It was previously our settler factory. I do not understand what we gain from having it stuck at size 6. Let it grow!!! It has the potential to be an awesome city, but it has to grow first. Now that I look, both the cattle and the wheat have been mined. Mining cattle on plains in despotism has no effect. The wheat is just about acceptable, but I would prefer all 3 irrigated, so we can start spitting out workers and settlers. If we're looking for a pre-build city, Medina is ideal, once that has acquired a courthouse and cathedral. Though I hate wasting shields, I change Damascus to an aqueduct, losing 48 shields. That hurt :cry: but it was the only logical thing to do.

All in all, I do not believe we are ready for war yet. Having had a look at the map I agree with CT that we need MDI to take on the Romans, and we can't get any MDI until we hook up our iron.I also do not believe we have enough military to sustain a prolonged assault, nor enpugh defence, nor enough workers. Our border cities also need barracks if possible. In addition, going to war would require us to didturb the Maginot line, as our tetrritory expands westwards, and I do not want to do that until we have fully settled the east. I therefore did not go to war in my turn.

I went ahead and traded Engineering to Ottomans for Monarchy, Feudalism, WM, 119g and 2gpt. No-one else had much to offer. Revolted immediately, set science to invention and hired 1 scientist.

By my 3rd turn (480AD) the Koreans began Sistine's, having researched theology. The price they quoted was ridiculous so I did not trade.

Afetr the iron was hooked up, I moved a number of the swords in the west and upgraded them to MDI; they are now on their way back to the front line. I did not upgarde any units in the Maginot Line, but the next player can do this if s/he wants. I also did not rush any buildings, maintaining a large treasury for when we get chivalry for a horse upgrade. At 100% treasury we are currently getting over 40gpt.

On my last turn all the other AI managed to get Theology, having inter-traded, so i too got it off the Greeks along with some change, for engineering and feudalsim. We are at tech parity and are 10 turns into a 40 turn gambit on invention.

If the next player feels ready for war, go for it, though I think we need a few more turns yet to get roads built, 7 more cities founded, and more defence built up. The save will upload to

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1r-550AD.sav

Nice turns. I also noticed the :smoke: worker and micromanagement (or lack thereof) moves. I think we should move you between Stuck and CivGeneral so things don't go awry. ;) I'm next, so this is an "I've got it!". :)

A nice set of turns. A few cities were founded, and 3 more settlers are on their way. A couple of warriors were also upgraded.

Preturn 550AD (0)

This time I look at the prefences and make some changes. "Capital Governor is the defualt for new cities!?!?" Who put THAT on!? That's a :smoke: move. :) I also enlist the help of the Cartographic Society. I find several :smoke: city placement.. Merw should have been 2 to the NE. It has severe overlap. In a tight build, only the "1st ring cities" should have the overlap. Currently, 5 tiles are being wasted. (we really need to replace our cities. This is why we should read the previous player's instructions. Our "2nd ring" is a mess!) The Vikings cities need to be replaced, too. There's so many gaps, it's not even funny! I will build a city 1 NW of the mountain that's 2 N of Medina. While Sana'a is building a temple, I switch it to a settler, as we need that 2nd ring of production. Settler will be built in 6 turns. (There's a lot of fringe cities that aren't producing much right now, and we could redo cities in that area...) Now I will start micromanaging.

Mecca - It has two workers clearing forest that it's not even using yet. One's done next turn, so I'll let it clear that forest. The other takes 8 turns, and it's best to mine/road the worked bonus grassland. I also switch the pike to a Medival Infranty. We can upgrade pikes later.

Baghdad - There's a worker clearing the forest. Baghdad needs that production. To compensate, I send the worker to irragate the floodplains. I also switch the courthouse to a Medival Infantry. The worker clearing the Damascus forest (forests are our friends early on. ;)) goes to mine the Baghdad incense - it doesn't have an acquaduct - had it been one NE, that problem would have been solved).

Najran - It doesn't have an acquaduct, so that grasstile is useless. I move it to the riverside forest, and it gains 2 shields, 1 commerce. (courthouse in 8 instead of 11). There's another :smoke: move. Why is it building a courthouse right next to the capital! That's a waste, since the 1 commerce it uncorrupts, it winds up paying for. I switch it to a cathedral.

Kufah - It still has low corruption, and could use a market for commerce. I make the switch.

Basra - Again, another city that doesn't need a courthouse! (Who has this obsession with them? We don't need them in areas that aren't that corrupt!) It doesn't have much commerce yet, so I'll switch it to a library.

Neapolis - Now here's a city that NEEDS a courthouse, and it rightfully building one. But, There a worked forest that's doing nothing. I move it to the ocean, and increase commerce by 1 (uncorrupted).

Anjar - It's building a granary, but there aren't many roads/mines/irragation to use (so no extra commerce), and with 3 grass, 6 desert, 4 jungle, that's not much production. I switch it to a library. (culture, and eventual science)

Balkh - It's building a barracks, but it's on the fringes of the empire and is very corrupt. I will switch to a settler for a better placed city.

Mansura - It has no acquaduct, so why is it building a granary? It's too much for a worker (of which we need), so I'll set it to a catapult (future artillery), and then set it to a worker.

Bukhara - I can move the worked grassland to the roaded forest. It gives one more production (harbor in 9 turns).


On the diplomatic front, we need trade routes connected (the AI isn't trade savvy though when it comes to trade route until right about now... the middle ages). Rome will give us a worker for horses. But, since we're going to war with them, it's not a good idea.

Our citizens are starting to grow unhappy, so we need the cathedrals. On the trade front, there's only 1 possible trade route. Us and Rome. Rome has several luxs, but unconnected. Ottomans have plenty of incense, and could trade those. Korea and Greece have 2 horses! (Rome and the Ottomans do not. Korea's horses are connected. Only 2 roads seperate the Ottomans and the Koreans. The Ottomans fortunately have no iron. (Iron seems rare on this map...)

Turn 1 - (560AD)

The Ottomans have built the Hanging Gardings! Korea cascades to SunTzu. Greeks are building Sistine and SunTzu. Rome is also building Sistine (twice!? They must've relocated the project) and SunTzu.

The cleared forest by Mecca yeilds a bonus grassland. We start mining it right away. Roads are still being built to other cities. Nothing to much write home about.

Turn 2 - (570AD)

Mecca: Med. Inf. > Med. Inf.
Medina: Cathedral > Med. Inf.

I also start upgrading some warriors to Med. Inf. I won't remove the Maginot Line until our borders are nearly filled. Happiness check - all cities are ok for now. I also decide to upgrade one spear and send him to the front to defend the Med. Inf. when the time comes.

Turn 3 - (580AD)

Damascus: Cathedral > Settler
Taif: Temple > Worker

I decide to switch Mecca to a few pikes to free up the new Medival Infantry. Nothing to report on the happiness and diplomacy front. We'll get quite a few things built next turn. (ARGH, my computer is crashing. Good thing I put the autosave back on... ) I tried to make all the worker moves from memor... I also load up the dot map in preperation.

Turn 4 - (590AD)

Hama: Temple > Harbor
Hmm, Kuhfa revolts. Didn't see that...
Muscat: Barracks > Pikeman
A worker and a catapult are also build (hmm, where's that prefence to ask for the next build order?)
Shiraz: Granary > Worker
Mosul the Third: Temple > Worker
Mansura: Catapult > Worker

I start planting forest in the tundra by Aydab. Tundra yeilds 1 food, but no shields. Forests give it that extra sheild.

On the Diplomacy front: Ottomans have Chivalry! The Age of Knights is here! They want about half of our income, and all our gold. I'll wait a bit. No one can build knights yet. Still no possible trade between Korea, Greece and the Ottomans. If there is a trade, it's most likely Korean or Greecan horses to the Ottomans. Happiness check looks ok. I send all 12 horsemen to Baghdad for future upgrade. I contact our Domestic Department, and they say the cost will be... The upgrade cost is (cost of Ansar - cost of Horse) * 2. That's (60 - 30) * 2 = 60 gold per upgrade. 60*12 = 720 gold. So, let's leave our budget above 720 gold (Leo's would have been nice in this case... so much for removing the prebuild), it would have been 360 gold. Oh well, live and learn.

Turn 5 - (600AD)

Basra: Library > Medival Infantry

The Ottomans are building Sistine.

A settler is built in Damascus (another starts) and heads for the hills east of Mosul. Nothing on the happiness and diplomatic front. Our culture is starting to dip a little (Greece is a huge culture builder). I like culture, but it seems I'm playing with a group of warmongers who like razing things. :viking::hammer: Workers are continuing to improve the terrain.

Turn 6 - (610AD)

Another fruitful turn. A settler and some pikes were built. The forest by Damascus is cleared, and yeilds a bonus grassland (we got lucky!)

Sana'a builds a settler, and I start it on another settler. The Settler moves to "Two Rivers". Sana'a will be abandoned as it didn't fit the build pattern outlined by ShadowDragon, but not before the next settler is in posistion next to it and ready to settle. Happiness and diplo have nothing to report. The "Hills (Defense)" settler will arrive next turn, settle on turn 8.

Turn 7 - (620AD)

Khurasan: Granary > Settler
Shihr: Temple > Worker

"Mosul" is founded at Two Rivers. (We'll rename it once the cities rotate again. Unfortunately, I don't know Arabic.) It starts a temple - we'll have a pike built elsewhere, and send it up. "Hills" settler is in place. Our forces also continue to mount near Rome. Once we get Chivalry, we'll be ready...

Turn 8 - (630AD)

Najran: Cathedral > Horsemen (this will add 60 gold to the upgrade total to 780. Fustat riots. I thought I checked them... hmm.

Balkh: Settler > Worker

Tabuk is built on "Hills (Defense)". I set it to a worker. The Balkh settler is renamed "Trondheimstan Settler" for easier identification. The other is renamed "E. Scandanavian Settler". No new techs yet. Ottomans still want half our income, and all of our gold. Sana'a switched to worker. (It will have to be abandoned for the "Trondheimstan Settler)". There's atleast 2 more sites by "Containment" and "Fishery 2".

Turn 9 - (640AD)

Kufah: Market > Cathedral
Bukhara: Harbor > Barracks
Aleppo: Acquaduct > Barracks

Not much this turn except for building roads and terrain improvements. I decide to switch Anjar to a cathedral, since it needs the happiness, and is still growing.

Turn 10 - (650AD)

The Ottomans are building SunTzu. Damascus builds a settler. This is "Containment". Damascus is switched to a Market.

Looking at the wonders (to check on France and Carthage), Paris is a coastal city (it has the collosus and Great Lighthouse). France is still around, and I wonder if France and Carthage have contact with eachother. Carthage has the Great Library, so if we make contact with them, they're propelled into the middle ages. So, in the future, we should look for France first, and stay away from brown borders.

Instructions for the next player:

Continue the buildup. There's 3 settlers in the field, each with a name to go to their distination on ShadowDragon's dotmap. One will have to go next to Sana'a, so the settler should be ready to settle before abandoning Sana'a. The settlers are going to: Containment, Trondheimstan, and E. Scandanavia. Once those are built, we can free up our maginot line. Also, Fez's posistion was messed up. Feel free to switch to a settler and settle 1 to the SE. (on the other side of the river)

The war drums are starting to beat. We get invention in 20 turns, and so far, the Ottomans haven't traded. Also, if we DO go to war with Rome, there's one mega production spot for later in the game: The floodplain between the wheat and mountain-gem. (2 NE of Veii). The FP should go around there, preferably to the SE. It seems two SE is shorter than 2 E. The diagonalas are considered cloer to the palace than due east/west. So, some new city SW of Rome might be a prime location.

You can remove the Maginot line when the settlers are in place. Then, upgrade the warriors and swords. We still want to keep our treasury above 720g to upgrade our horses when we get Chivalry.

It now passes to ShadowDragon!
650 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_r_650AD.zip)

the purpose of building courthouses is not so much to reduce commerce lost but SHIELDS wasted. Even the cities close to our capital were losing shields to corruption, so that is why I'm so keen to build them. I think generally people really underrate courthouses, the difference they can make is huge (reduce corruption and waste by 25%), and if we weren't trying to accumulate gold to upgrade horses, I would even go so far as to rush courthouses, as they will pay for themselves many times over during the course of a game.

The purpose of chopping forests is two-fold, firstly the 10 shield clearance helps with large projects, but mainly, as you discovered, there are often bonus grasslands underneath, which when mined, produce the same shields as the forest and 1 extra food; its a no-brainer not to chop.

You were correct not to buy chivalry: let it get traded around, and then buy cheaper. As various people on the boards have shown, buying at 2nd costs more than researching the tech! Let the Otto's lose their monoploy, then we buy; time is on our side as we have the larger empire, so every turn that passes, our overall advantage increases.

"capital governor as default for new cities" only makes a difference if you have the governor on, and since we don't, that preference makes no difference at all.

I'm very confused about your idea for city placement. You say that in a tight build only core first-ring cities should be packed, and 2nd ring cities should be spaced out without overlap. Why? Surely it's the other way round. I would want my core uncorrupted cities with little overlap and lots of good tiles to use; whereas for the corrupt outer cities, they will never use that many tiles, and most of what they produce will be corrupted: so those are the cities which should be close-packed, to make up in quantity what those cities lack in quality.

Please don't start abandoning too many cities! We are creating an empire, not a work of art!! Sure, if there is one particular city that's really badly placed, disband it, but wholesale re-establishment is pointless, the gain we get from slightly better placement is far outweighed by the loss of having to start from scratch. I would strongly urge that we leave the Viking cities, and build round them. If there are gaps, put an extra city in place. At the very least, every extra town is 2 more unit support in monarchy.

The tight-build is another underrated strategy. ;) IMHO, that one or two corruption isn't going to hurt us big time, but I do like courthouses in the 'outer rings'. Since the cities are close together, it's less corruption (and like I said before, it's not going to get more than 12 tiles until after sanitation). I don't worry about corruption in my core cities until the industrial age.

For the prebuild... I think we could have had a chance at Sistine. If we want size 7+ cities, we'll need the extra happiness. Also, in regent, 0% science isn't always the best... The Otto's have Chivalry. Not to mention, invention could be their next choice along with theology.

I must say that building somewhat dense is SO much more rewarding then building with no overlap at all.

If your city can get 12 citizens, that's enough for MOST part of the game, even the almost ALL parts of the game.

1) The city needs a Hospital to grow beyond 12, and you won't get those until almost halfway through your game, if you play a warmongering game, maybe much less then half.

2) A size 12 city can get many shields.

3) It's easier to keep your citizens happy. Which means more score.

Take a look at this screenshot:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/screen.jpg

And a city with 10 shields and 1-2 waste don't need a courthouse yet, especially not if it is about to build the forbidden palace.

Now that I'm done with my political readings for the moment (at www.dailykos.com), I've "got it" and will start playing.

Overview:

I traded for Chivalry when Korea got it, engaged in a little other diplomacy, upgraded our horsemen, slightly built up our military, brought our workers to our core cities, took care of those eastern settlements, and built happiness infrastructure in our core cities.

Turn 0 - 650 A.D.

Observation: Many of our workers are off working tiles in corrupt little Podunk towns when citizens in our core cities are working unimproved tiles! Quel catastrophe!


Fez: 28s -> Settler (Changed production to settler, with 28 shields already in the bin.)
Khurasan: 28s -> Pikeman
Basra: 30s -> Marketplace
Najran: 12s -> Aqueduct

Micromanage Damascus, getting faster growth, more shields, and more gold! I move a pikeman from Khurasan to Basra so that they don't go into whip-induced rioting. I move Medina's entertainer to a grassland tile. I micromanage Suhar's workers for max food, as all but one shield are lost to corruption anyway. Renegotiating peace with the Greeks gives us 32 gold and world map.

Fustat: Settler -> Courthouse
Khurasan: Pikeman -> Cathedral
Aydab: Worker -> Courthouse

Turn 1 - 660 A.D.

Micromanage Sana'a to get more gold before disbanding.

Anjar: Cathedral -> Courthouse
Fez: Settler -> Wealth
Mecca: Pikeman -> Colosseum
Medina: Med. Infantry -> Marketplace

Palace expansion!

Turn 2 - 670 A.D.

Abandon Sana'a and resettle, starting worker. Settle New Mecca at E. Scandinavia, start worker.

Taif: Worker -> Worker

Turn 3 - 680 A.D.

Abandon and resettle Fez, start worker. Abandon our "Maginot Line."

Aden: Worker -> Worker
Mansura: Worker -> Worker
Shiraz: Worker -> Courthouse (micromanage for one more non-corrupted shield)
Mosul the Third: Worker -> Worker

Turn 4 - 690 A.D.

Upgrade a few miscellaneous units from our "Maginot Line."

Bergen: Worker -> Worker
Suhar: Worker -> Worker

Another palace expansion!

Turn 5 - 700 A.D.

I settle New Medina in the eastern desert.

Baghdad: Medieval Infantry -> Aqueduct

Turn 6 - 710 A.D.

Shihr: Worker -> Worker

Turn 7 - 720 A.D.

The Koreans know Chivalry! I renegotiate peace, give them an RoP, give 189 gold, and take Chivalry. They turn polite. I upgrade all our horseman for 720 gold. Renegotiating peace with the Ottomans and giving them RoP gets us 82 gold + 1 gpt, and they too turn polite.

Damascus: Marketplace -> Ansar Warrior
Balkh: Worker -> Worker
Bayt Ras: Worker -> Worker
Tabuk: Worker -> Courthouse (queue Aqueduct) (I didn't notice it before, but this town is only 8 tiles from our palace and has potential to be a strong city)

Turn 8 - 730 A.D.

Damascus loves the Caliph! Yay!

Kufah: Cathedral -> Ansar Warrior
Muscat: Pikeman -> Worker
Bukhara: Barracks -> Worker
Aleppo: Barracks -> Cathedral

Oops, Fustat riots because I moved the spearman away to upgrade :smoke:. I hire an entertainer for now, which I will undo when they get a pikeman back.

Turn 9 - 740 A.D.

I change Basra's scientist to an entertainer and add a scientist in Aydab.

Kufah loves the Caliph too! Woohoo!

Turn 10 - 750 A.D.

My last diplomacy check reveals nothing major. We can trade for a worker from Rome, but we're just about to capture that worker anyway. Rome hasn't traded for horses or iron, so nothing to worry about there.

Notes to next player:

Finish the happiness infrastructure in our core cities, then start cranking out Ansar warriors. After you have, oh, 10 or so more, attack Rome. Try to get to 3 pikemen in each of our border towns (Neapolis, Fustat, Baghdad, Anjar, and Basra). Improve tiles our core cities, as they desperately need it. I have left a settler in Neapolis who can settle the shield powerhouse Chieftess mentioned when we take over Rome.

Oops! Forgot the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_750AD.SAV).

IGNORE ME

We still have 6 warriors and 1 horsemen that can be upgraded.

12 Ansar Warriors
18 Medival Infantry
17 Pikes
17 Spears
4 Archers (these could be upgraded in 10 turns...) BTW, Archers can still beat Longbows because of the 1 defense.

We also have 35 cities. I would suggest this plan of attack:

Send a few med. inf. into Pompeii (It's only size 5 right now)
Send the rest west.
Send the Ansars to Rome (maybe put a pike or two there).
If the Ansars (Remember, there is a river, and Rome is on a hill. Attack on the SW side of the river.) are successful, send the Med. Inf. west towards Antium.
Move stack towards Veii, and split a portion towards Ravenna.
The Ravenna stack should head up to Viroconium, and the other stack towards Cumae then Hispalis.
We can save Pisae for later, and use it to extort the Romans for techs.

Also, attack with our elites (or vets to get them to elite). CivGeneral goes next. (Besure to read the previous players comments). The expansion phase has ended. The conquering phase has begun!

After the Romans, we could take the Ottomans, then build a bit while exploring. Korea and Greece seem pretty weak, and even though I love building wonders... we could let them build for us.... then take them. :)

Nope! CivGeneral's next. The order is displayed on the first page of this thread.

BTW, here's the roster:

1 - Chieftess
2 - ShadowDragon Turn Ended
3 - CivGeneral Now Playing
4 - Nad On Deck!
5 - Stuck_As_a_Mac

Also, we have nearly 3 times the score as Rome (Rome is #3). The Ottomans are #2. Korea is #4, and Greece is #5. Paris and Carthage are at size 1 (no growth). I wonder what's going on over there....

Here's a world map of our world so far. (Normally, I'd use the file upload, but it doesn't seem to be working right now)


Arabia 35 cities 52.23%
Ottomans 9 cities 13.43%
Rome 9 cities 13.43%
Korea 8 cities 11.94%
Greece 6 cities 8.95%
--------------------------------------
67 total cities 100.0%


We have over 50% of the cities on the continent! :hammer:

Here is my Ive got it Message. Hopefully I should post the save up later tonight, since I do have to do some housecleaning chores in my room in witch it would take me a while.

Here's some concentric circles of the FP site. The MA (Military Academy) spot looks too close to the coast. So, I'm thinking 1 or 2 SW of where Veii is (for the FP). We can use Veii as a worker/settler factory (temporary) so we can place the FP site. (yes, that's the builder talking. ;)) The white spot is another possible site for a nice city (but not as grand as the Gem Mountain site).

(BTW, the image is clipped because of the file size limit)

CivGeneral's 10 turns

Turn 0 - 750AD Preturn

Analized the current situation

Takes notes on the Instructions from the previous player:
Finish the happiness infrastructure in our core cities, then start cranking out Ansar warriors. After you have, oh, 10 or so more, attack Rome. Try to get to 3 pikemen in each of our border towns (Neapolis, Fustat, Baghdad, Anjar, and Basra). Improve tiles our core cities, as they desperately need it. I have left a settler in Neapolis who can settle the shield powerhouse Chieftess mentioned when we take over Rome.

Turn 1 - 760AD

Gave orders to workers

Checkep up on Micromanagement

Turn 2 - 770AD

Mecca: Colosseum -> Med. Inf.
Medina: Marketplace -> Colosseum
Damascus: Ansar Warrior -> Ansar Warrior
Basra: Marketplace -> Colosseum
Neapolis: Courthouse -> Cathedral
Bukhara: Worker -> Walls
Suhar: Worker -> Barracks
Sana's: Worker -> Archer
New Mecca: Worker -> Barrack

Sent the Compleated Ansar warrior to the Front lines at tile 2 tiles SW and 1 tile NW of Neapolis.

Turn - 3 780AD

War has been declared against the romans
Sending units that are at tile 2 tiles SW and 1 tile NW of Neapolis to 1 tile SE of Rome
Sending units that are at tile 2 tiles SW and 1 tile SE of Neapolis to 1 tile NW of Pompeii

Taif: Worker -> Pikemen
Fez: Worker -> Pikemen
The Koreans are building Leonardo's WOrkshop
Searching for Palace-prebuild

Attacked rome with Ansar Warrior trigering a Golden Age
We also captured Rome
Assault report: Lost 1 Ansar warrior while 2 were promoted to elite status, Golden Age triggered

Turn 4 - 790AD

Sending Med. inf. from the Pompeii assault force to Rome
Moving injured Ansars to Rome
Khurasan: Cathedral -> Colosseum
Mansura: Worker -> Ansar
Mosul the Third: Worker -> Ansar

Turn - 5 800AD

Attacking Pompeii
Result:No units were killed on our dide, Pompeii has been captured

Attacking Antium
Result: 1 Ansar Killed, Antium Captured, Captured 2 workers and 2 settlers

Mecca: Med. Inf. -> Sun tzu

Turn - 6 810AD

Muscat: Worker -> Pikemen
Sending some of the units to the tile 1 tile NE of Veii

Turn - 7 820AD
Captured 2 workers on the Tile 1 Tile NW and 1 Tile NW of Veii
Assault on Veii
Result: 1 Ansar killed, The Elite Ansar has created a Great Leader I am going to let the team disscuss on what to do with the GL, We have captured Veii

I have sent a stack of units on the Tile 1 tile NW of Rome to the Tile 1 Tile SW and 1 Tile SE of Ravenna

I sent an Ansar to the Tile 1 SE of Ravenna and Captured a Roman worker in the process :)

Turn - 8 830AD

Gave the Captured Roman workers orders
Continued Micromanage the captured cities

Turn - 9 840AD
Assaulting Ravenna
Result: Med. inf promoted to Vet, Captured Ravenna

Assembling the Cavalry that are statoned in Veii to 1 tile SE of Cumae, Leaving some behind to heal

Rush built the temple in Rome and Veii

Turn 10 - 850AD
Science: Discovered Invention
Invention -> Gunpowder
Rome & Veii: Temple -> Library

Possible Trade deals
Contacted the Ottomans, It seams that they already have the Invention
The Greeks can give us World map and Education for Chivalry, Invention, and 652g

I had decided to stop here at this point to Warning: Demogame Joke ahead ;)"Take it to the Forums"

Ill load up the save ASAP
Please watch this space ;).

Evil words, CG! Evil!!!
IMO, Sistine. As a religious civ, it will be good for us.

BTW, since the file upload is temporarily down, and we have to use the forum upload (which has a 100k limit), you can use a file slicing program to slice up the save:

http://www.lawrencegoetz.com/programs/gfsplit.htm

To unslice, simplly run the batch file it creates after downloading all the parts.

EDIT: Great! Looks like we got a GL! We could do 3 things:

1 - make an army (heroic epic - I think a Military Academy also requires this) (In Rome? Mecca?...)

2 - Rush the FP

3 - Rush a wonder (Sistine)

Well, Luckly the Uploads is working. Just a few seconds ago I had sucessfuly uploaded the save.

PAD1_r_850AD.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_r_850AD.zip)

We are in a Golden Age, and have mounds of gold. I'd really like to up the science rate to 50%. That way, we can trade gunpowder in 9 turns (or printing press in 7). The Ottomans do have 1 mountain connected, and could be saltpeter. But, I'm wary of trading a strategic tech such as Gunpowder. If we sued for peace now (with Rome - not that we want to), we can get: worker, 10gpt, 102g. We aren't in a dire need for that yet. We should continue the war until they have 1 city left (the one in the middle of the SW coast).

A couple of things I noticed:

The Great Mining Project - Why are their workers building mines like crazy around the Mosul The Third desert? It needs irragation. (maybe 4 mines at the most, which it already has). :smoke:

Aden - It doesn't need walls! It needs a courthouse! (Speaking of walls, Buhkhara is building walls, too). :smoke:

Support - I see VERY little support for our troops. Only 2 Ansar warriors are being built, and those will take 54 turns! In Mansura and Mosul the Third. :smoke:


BTW, a note to everyone: When you do your diplomacy checks each turn, take note of the AI's attitude towards you. Any change in either direction means something is up. If it goes way down, a sneak attack or war could be coming. If it goes way up (and I've had that happen), an allience is coming.

Also, here's some stuff on irragating and mining (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29210&highlight=mining).

Originally posted by Chieftess
The Great Mining Project - Why are their workers building mines like crazy around the Mosul The Third desert? It needs irragation. (maybe 4 mines at the most, which it already has). :smoke:

@Chieftess: I How can I break this Mining habit

Aden - It doesn't need walls! It needs a courthouse! (Speaking of walls, Buhkhara is building walls, too). :smoke:

Support - I see VERY little support for our troops. Only 2 Ansar warriors are being built, and those will take 54 turns! In Mansura and Mosul the Third. :smoke:

Ok, Next time I should watch thoes Build queues :wallbash:.

got it when I get home.

Unless anyone has any vicious objection, I would prefer to use the GL for the FP. Immediate boost (especially in a GA) and a whole new productive core. Army and wonders would be nice, but neither of those is particularly essential, whereas FP is. And as for military acadmey...this game should be over well before armies will play a crucial role

I think the FP (if we wanted to do it immediately) would go in the new city (marked MA in the above picture). Or, we could put a FP 1 south of the wheat where it says FP. Of course, we'll probably have the continent conquered by the time we even get cavalry. :) But, a heoric epic is nice to try and get more GLs.

My first choice is 1 below the wheat (SE of the new city site. It's more central to most of the hills and mountains in that area). My 2nd choice is the "MA" site. 3rd would be the hill on the south side of the mountain range (which I really don't want to have a FP there). There's also a settler in Neapolis, waiting...

Nad, playing the game yet?

I'm playing the game tonight...last night was impossible

...because of this bloody server:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: (do you get the picture?)

I am actually very annoyed because I spent ages writing up the report, click "post reply" and it tells me I'm not logged in. Of course I'm bloody logged in, I wouldn't have been able to type the reply otherwise. I log in again, "no thread specified", press back, but report is gone. And this happened twice. So you'll forgive me for not writing it a third time, I'll just do a summary.

Early on I was not too impressed with the worker instructions, as all the workers semmed to be doing the wrong thing. I took the 3 Roman cities of Cumae, Hispalis and Virconium, losing just 1 Ansar to a counter. I then sued for peace, as the Romans were down to 1 city on the far side of the Ottoman empire. Next turn, the Otto's used their ROP with us to sneak attack. They were repulsed easily and are now gassed. I took Antalya and Bursa, and we now control the Hanging gardens. The next player should have the joy of finishing the Otto's.

New Damascus was also founded and rushed the FP with the leader. We researched gunpowder and are close to chemistry, but the Koreans also got gunpowder (however, they have no saltpeter, we have 2 hooked and 2 more). Traded luxes to Korea to keep em sweet and prevent a dogpile. Essentially, we're all set for a dom victory pretty soon as long as we don't c0ck it up big style. I'm sorry for this summary, my initial report was designed to be detailed and witty but the bloody server ate it, so I'm not in a great mood:(

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1r-950AD.sav

Nad: That's why I said earlier: Use notepad when you write up your report. Then copy and paste. Don't rely on the server always working.

I've also had civs ROP attack me (China in Tourny 3-1) just about when the Middle Ages hit (early on). Needless to say, when you've got an early Middle Age UU, the game's won when that happens. Ok, Stuck! You're up! Just don't do anything rash. :)

It's nice to see Rome pushed to a little jungle colony. :) Korea doesn't have Saltpeter, but has lots of desert. (possibly saltpeter reappearence spot). Greece has it, and horses. So, it's a definate resource denial spot when we go to war with them.

We're also primed to move a settler to that spot 4 NE from New Damascus. New Damascus only gets 8 extra food from rails and irragation, (2 plains, 2 grasslands, and 1 wheat). So, they have just enough to use the southern hills and mountains, which leaves the rest for the new town 4 NE.

The 8 food will allow for: 4 hills, and 2 mountains, so even though the city radii of the new city will overlap, New Damascus will never be able to use those anyway. But, it makes for a good central location, which is why I suggested it.

Battle plans:

Our troops are a bit scattered in southern Ottoman territory (Turkey :D). Iznik has iron, and it would be best to pillage that tile, since they have Pikes. I'll draw up a battle map. So, Stuck, please wait a bit before rushing into battle. :)

Red lines: (first few moves)

- Move the settler by Neapolis to the blue dot. That's where our best city will be.
- Move our Ansars in for the kill around Uskadar.
- The Konya troops might want to wait a turn or two. (There's two archers in there. I believe we can upgrade them to longbows...) You could move one from Hispalis, but Bursa could wait a few turns.
- Also, if Uskadar falls easily, send troops into Iznik. The blue lines are rivers. Don't attack over the river - take a turn to move to the other side. All cities are on the SE side of these rivers.

Yellow Lines: (mid-late turns)

- Head to Istanbul. Depending on how we do up north, we might want to wait on this.
- Go from Iznik to Izmit, and have the Uskadar troops join them.

Blue lines: (maybe next player)

Take Erdine. If the capital isn't taken by now, it should be ripe for the picking.

Pink Line: Finish them off. :hammer:

Also, watch those Roman and Korean spear/settler pair.

Here's the battle map.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_bp_950ad.jpg

Originally posted by Nad
Early on I was not too impressed with the worker instructions, as all the workers semmed to be doing the wrong thing.

I am not that good with what to do with worker's instructions. I am trying to learn on "When to mine or not to Mine". Please cut me some slack Nad :(. I am not an Expert like you or Chieftess :(, My only specalty in Civ3 is in the Military Department (Moving units and attacking)

There's also a huge empty spot 4 SW of Rome (on a hill) that could be settled. It can use the southern mountains/hills. Other than that, there's not much production on this map. ...atleast in the southern civs. :hammer:

Hmm, I just noted we were building Leo's Workshop. Who started that? I didn't see any mention of it.

Turn One: A bunch of worker actions. Too many!!! Ansar warrior N of Inzink attacks, wins, knocked down to 1hp. Retreates to Antinum to heal. Ansar SE of Usakdar attacks, wins, down to 3hp. Elite Ansar in mountains heads to Usak, dies. Vet Ansar in mountains dies same way. Stack of Med Inf and archer outside of Istanbul die doing no damage (gonna get yelled at for that one. :smoke: ) End turn.

Turn Two: Micromanaging... New Damascus: Temple->Ansar Bursa riots, hire another entertainer. Khurasan: Colloseum->Ansar Antalya riots, hire another entertainer. Sana'a: Temple-> Ansar Vet Med Inf attacks Iznik, wins, down to 2 hp. Reg does same, but dies. Reg Med Inf outside of Uskadar dies. Ansar outside of same city defeats pike, revelaing a Spear. Med Inf attacks, Uskudar is ours!! Send another Med Inf into city to serve as police. Pike outside of Instanbul flees to nearest city. Med Inf SOD (6, yes, not an SOD) attacks Konya. Elite dies trying. So does a Vet. Reg succedes and is promoted to Vet. Vet succedes. Reg dies. Reg succedes. Ansar sent to heal enters Spa, begins healing process.

Turn Three: Micro.... Hire entertainer in Rome. Same with Fustat. Lowered Sci to 60%, chem in one. Longbow attacks SOD, kills vet. Chem researched, going to metalurgy. Antium: Baracks->Ansar. Najran: Library-Ansar. Kufah Asar to Ansar. Basra- Courthouse-Ansar.Neapolis Granary-Ansar. Uskudar riots. Aleppo Courthose- Musket.Shiraz- Court to Musket. Fez Temple-Ansar. Palace gets some Shrubbery (another shrubbery!!) Iznik Med Infs are all dead. I sense :smoke: coming from in the city. Remainder of Konya SOD attacks. Vet dead. Vet captures city! Send remaining regs into city to serve as Police. New Penguin founded. Med Inf in 40.

Turn Four: Retreating Pike killed. Golden age over :( Media builds ansar. Cumae: Barracks-Musket. Konva riots. Archers upgraded.

Turn Five: Bursa riots. Anjar-Ansar. Grouping Ansars in Bursa for Attack on Istanbul. Short Turn

Turn Six: Mosul the Third: Barracks-Ansar. Leo in 3, ill get to see this one. End. Note: Im grouping forces. When I'm 7+, ill attack.

Turn Seven: Metal in 6. Must pause to eat. I return. End turn

Turn Eight: Ansar killed in Uskudar. Kufaf Ansar-Ansar. Khurasan is the same. End. Im flodding the world! (with Irrigation)

Turn Nine: Another Ansar dead in Uskudar. Medina Ansar-Ansar. We own Leo!!! (and not the crappy actor.) Damascus starts Sistine (28), but i hope for it to be a place holder for something else. Naijran Ansar-Ansar. All connected Pikes upgrade for 420. Switched to education, in 6.

Turn Ten: Well, hope the DG will still have me. Vet med inf defeated longbow in Uskudar. Konya riots. Im done.

Note to next player: Ive stashed 6 Ansars in Bursa. More are on the way.

To CT: Hope I followed the plan okay.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad_1_R_1050AD.SAV

Longbow attacks SOD, kills vet.
...Retreating Pike killed

Again, be more descriptive. Who's longbow? (I know we don't have one, but how do I know you didn't build one), what unit did they kill? Did the longbow lose anything? Promoted?


And, whose pike? Ours? The Ottomans? Where? (and where was it going?) And what unit attacked it?

And don't tell me you left New Penguin undefended!? :smoke:

Turn 0 (1050AD)

ACK!!!! New Penguin is undefended!? I also switch Uskudar to a musket. Rushing is 152g. That way, we get that stack out ASAP. New Damascus is switched to barracks. Rushed for 32g. Konya is rioting with 2 longbows at the gate! Not good. I send an elite Ansar from Bursa to attack one. It wins with no damage, but no GL. Why is there an Ansar fortified up north? Also, there's mining going on in the tundra. Mining only gives one shield. We have Engineering! We can plant forest in the tundra instead (2 shields). Not to mention, the spot where the 2 workers are mining, no one can use yet! :smoke: They are sent north of Konya to connect it. We have another huge stack building a road north of New Damascus... ON THE MOUNTAINS!?!? :smoke: The key to war infrastructure is to get roads ASAP on "normal" terrain (grass, desert, plains, tundra). I wake the ones just to the north. The ones above it are done in 1 turn... They are moved to the wheat to road/irragate. I send an elite from Hispalis to attack the longbow. He wins (no damage), but no GL. Now for some micromanaging:

New Damascus doesn't need all of those shields. I put the worked tiles on the gems and lake. Commerce goes from 6 to 15, and education from 5 to 4 turns! Barracks still complete in 1. (hehe.. there's a Korean working building a road for us by Antium!)

:cringe: I just noticed the prefs. were changed again. The Ottomans have a galley by Aydab! And we have a patch of cities in the back with no defenses!! I also switch Damascus from the Sistine Chapel to an Ansar Warrior. Were there any cascades when we built Sistine? That's the thing to look out for, and another reason I'm not building it just yet. There's still some iffy worker moves, but I'll get to that after viewing the cities.

New Penguin - It grows in 1, so that extra food isn't needed. I decide to put it on the gems. We go from 2 commerce, 3 science, to 4 commerce, 4 science.

Mecca - Micromanaging gets SunTzu in 5.

Hama - It's building an aquaduct, but can't even grow! Switching it to a harbor. Not to mention it's using forest and bonus tiles it can't even use. (due to corruption)

Medina - I move a worked mountain tile to a tile that's being mined.

Bergen - Another that is hopelessly corrupt. There's a galley trying to broadside us, so I switch it to a musket, and speed up its' growth a bit more.

Bursa - Nothing here, except the Hanging Gardens had 152 culture from the previous civ. We need to watch this one.

Baghdad - Moving the one worked incense SW of the city to the mined tile to the S gets us the market in 1 turn instead of 2.

Neapolis - Micromanage to get 1 more commerce.

Anjar - Moved the worked tile on the plains to the mined (normal) grassland. Growth in 2 instead of 3.

Sana'a - this is also switched to a musket.

Balkh - It's building an aquaduct (IN 78 TURNS!?). It's not going to get past size 6 for a while due to the surrounding terrain. Switching to a musket and rushing for 152g. (due to that galley)

Mansura - Placed worked tile from unworked plains to irragated/roaded plains.

Anyalya - Placed (temporarily) worked irragation onto the forest. Temple in 1.

Shiraz - Placed floodplain tile on the roaded spice for +1 sci. and commerce.

Merw - It's building a library. It's not going to have much effect right now due to its' size. Plus, with the galley coming, it'll need a musket. Rushed for 36g.

Aydab - building a granary. There isn't much the granary is going to do, especially when there's no aquaduct in a size 6 city that's hopelessly corrupt. Rushing a musket for 44g (due to the galley)

Suhar - Size 6 and building a harbor. No need for it right now. Switching to a courthouse, and moving the forest tile to the irragated plains.

Fez is building an Ansar Warrior, but I switch it to a musket in preperation for an emergency rush.

Mosul - Switched to musket

New Mecca - rushed a temple for 8 (gotta get it to a musket)...

New Medina - Also undefended, and building a granary (at size 5). Switched to a musket and prepare for an emergency rush.


Now for the trade/diplo checks.

Greece is trading with the Ottomans. Greece has 1 ivory for trade, and as the Ottomans are their only trading partner, the Ottomans are getting ivory from Greece. Korea is probably trading wines to the Ottomans.

Turn 1 - 1060AD

New Damascus: Barracks > Ansar Warrior - upgraded both pikes for 60g total. One will move to New Penguin.
Bursa: Temple > Musket
Baghdad: Market > Ansar Warrior
Antalya: Temple > Musket
Tabuk: Aqueduct > Musket
New Mecca: Temple > Musket

Galley continues east. I will move the Neapolis Ansar Warrior to the other side of the continent (there in 2 turns! Don't you just love 3 movement points!!). I am phasing out spears for muskets from north to east. Konya-Ansar scouts Istanbul and sees a pike. Konya is now connected and can build a musket. I start moving Ansars towards Iznik and Istanbul. I also noticed an Ottoman worker asleep in Bursa!

Turn 2 - 1070AD

The Romans speak! They want a WM for a WM. I decline. Two longbows attack our ansars. One by Bursa (our Ansar loses, but knocks it down to 2 hp). The other attacked from Instanbul, but our Ansar retreated. Our vet attacks the Iznik longbow and wins (but loses 2 hp). The attack on Instanbul commences! Vet Ansar attacks Vet Pike and wins! No damage. Elite attacks a reg pike, wins but is reduced to 1 hp. Vet Ansar attacks a Reg Pike and wins! (losing 1 hp). Elite attacks reg pike, loses but pike is reduced to 1 hp. An Ansar is brought in from Bursa. Only a Longbow remains in Instanbul. Another Ansar attacks, knonks the longbow down to 2 hp, and retreats.

Rushing musket in Bergen for 92g. Sending the spead to Mosul next turn. Switched Oslo to a musket and rushed for 134. Moving our workers near Bergen back just in case. Hmm, there's a pike just outside of Basra. Why? And I notice two more. Those are for city defense! :smoke:

Our Ansar warrior is ready to defend Bergen. Our attack force by Iznik will be ready next turn. This will sever their Korea/Greece deal. Diplomacy doesn't yeild much just yet.

Turn 3 - 1080AD

Rome auto-renews the peace treaty. Galley continues east, as I send muskets to defend the undefended cities. The Battle of Iznik begins! Ansar is attacked by a defending catapult (-1 hp), but can defeat the pike. It retreats. Anoter vet loses to a pike, but reduces it to 1hp. A 3rd vet is reduced to 1hp, but wins and is promoted. A spear stands in the city! 2 more vets defeat 2 more spears. A 1hp pike remains. In Istanbul, a reg Ansar defeats a vet pike. Our other Vet ansar defeats the 2hp longbow and takes the city! There's 8 resistors, but it still has its' market!

Education in 1 - no adjustment can be done. Rome offers 12gpt, 15g for dyes, spices and incense. There's nothing to give to Korea, unless we want them to have muskets...

Turn 4 - 1090AD

Galley retreats! It must have been going for our undefended cities. We aren't out of the woods yet, though. We have education! Rome riots on growth. I still don't understand why sometimes it does that, and sometimes it doesn't. The Instanbul resistence is slowing. The Greeks have built the Sistine Chapel! I notice Pompeii has wines within its' borders! Time to connect them! The mine by New Penguin should not be mined. It disrupts the mountain support. A Vet Ansar Warrior finally takes Iznik, and captures some workers and a catapult. There is rioting. All troops in the area are sent in. Uskudar is switched to barracks. I am sending an Iznik Ansar to scout and attack the Izmit pike. He wins, but is knocked down to 1hp. A 2nd follows, knocks a pike down to 2hp, but retreats. Aleppo built a musket, and is switched to a Library. Muskets are in place in Yamama and Bergen. Ansar heads to Aydab. Finally remembered the Greece spice deal I forgot about last turn. Giving myself a :smoke: (I'm in the Civ3 Demogame Trade Department of all things! - atleast I'm not hitting myself with a gaval like Shaitan did to himself once...). Nothing much on the diplo front.

Turn 5 - 1100AD

Pompeii: Courthouse > Ansar Warrior

A Vet attacks an Izmit pike, loses, but the pike is reduced to 1hp. I also switch Konya to a temple for the culture. Same for Uskudar. Micromanaged a few cities that were about to riot. Adjusted science for Astro in 6. With better ships, we can find Carthage and France. We get SunTzu next turn!

Turn 6 - 1110AD

Mecca: SunTzu > Ansar Warrior
Fustat: Market > Ansar Warrior
Konya: Temple > Musket

Attacking Izmit. Vet Ansar retreats, but knocks a pike down a few sizes. Another vet defeats a pike. There's only spears left! Vet defeats spear, but is knocked down to 1hp. Elite Ansar dies, but knocks the pike down to 1hp. 2nd Elite wins, but is knocked down to 1hp. The city is ours! Decided to switch Rome to a Market, as it has lots of unhappiness. Sending a few Ansars from Instanbul to Aydin to "test the waters". Ansars go on the hill for optimal defense if needed. And Ansar goes to Erdine to check things out. We can now trade incense to the Chinese since we cut off the Istanbul trade route! We get Incense for 10gpt and 3g. I don't see us going to war with them soon, as we should build up our infrastructure. Then again, if the next player is feeling a little bold...

Turn 7 - 1120AD

Vet Ansar attacks Erdine pike and wins! Reduced to 2hp, and heads back to Uskudar to rest. I Also see that Astro can be increased to 3 turns of research. Vet Ansar attacks pike in Aydin, loses and the pike is promoted to vet - but not before losing 1 hp. A 2nd Ansar knocks a pike down 2 hp, but retreats. A 3rd gets knocked down to 1hp, but defeats the pike and is promoted. There's only 1 more pike in the city! Sending in a couple more Ansars. That should do the trick for the next turn. I also move the northern Ansar closer to that galley.

Turn 8 - 1130AD

Koreans give us 8gpt, 13g, TM (territory map), and WM for spices. The last of the resistence in Izmit has ended, and that galley is moving back. Must be one confused captain of the ship!

Muscat: Aqueduct > Courthouse

Our elite charges into Aydin, defeats the pike (loses 2hp), but no GL. Our vet Ansar is defeated by a spear! I also rush a musket in Izmit for 232g (expensive, yes, but it frees up our attack force). I also free up a few Ansars in Iznik for a small force by Erdine. Our wines are also connected! Huh!? A fort by Shiraz? That worker must've built a fort there! We don't need forts there! :smoke: I decide to free up 4 out of 5 Ansars for Erdine.

Turn 9 - 1140AD

Uskudar: Musket > Ansar Warrior
Izmit: Musket > Musket

The Koreans are building Copernicus's Observatory! Galley heads back east.

Vet Ansar Warrior defeats Aydin spear and takes the city! The battle for Erdine commences. Vet Ansar defeats a pike. A Spear remains. Bring in the elites... Elite defeats a spear, and we get a Great Leader! Ansar renamed to Sultan's Knightmare. One more spear remains! A vet Ansar defeats another spear. One more remains... Another vet Ansar attacks the spear, and knocks it down to 1hp, but loses. This is their last spear. Our vet Ansar wins. We captured the Great Wall! Sire! We have defeated the Ottomans! :hammer: Our vet is also sent to Izmit to cool the city down after rioting (no more resistence). I check the histograph, and Paris and Carthage are still at size one, no growth. What's going on over there? I also micromanage Astro down to 10% (1 turn), and we'll get 251g this turn). hehe.. Aydin is still rioting! There's no free wonders (except for Copernicus in 1 turn), but we'll build an army for the heroic epic, and soon Military Academy, which is fast approaching. We might be there by the time we take out the Greeks.

Turn 10 - 1150AD

Astro. is ours. :lol: Aydin is still resisting! Even though 2 have been quelled.

Bukhara: Aqueduct > Caravel

Hmm, had a peace treaty with Rome. Who cares? We're winning this map! WAR! Our rep was already damaged a bit with those razed cities way back in the Viking Wars. OUCH!!!! OW!! OW!! OW!! Rome was undefended! That's no fun! Set Pisae to temple. Korea has an additional worker, but nothing to really cripple them if we take it now. Neither have physics, and we can trade it to Korea for 7gpt, 131g, territory map, world map, and ivory.

Souel is on a hill (size 12), and both Souel and Pyongyang are on the SE side of a river. Namp'o is on the SW side of the river. Hyangsan is on the NE side of the river. A frontal assualt can be very crippling to the Koreans.


Instructions for the next player:

Continue to mine the Gems for New Peguin.
(so much for my Rome instruction that went here... :D)
Build our infrastructure in the Ottoman territory.
We need to prepare for the Korean war.

PAD1 - 1150AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_r_1150AD.zip)


ShadowDragon is up next! Think you can match this one!?

Here's something to note. Korea's UU is the Hwach'a, which needs saltpeter. Korea does not have it, but could get it from Greece. In the meanwhile, we can amass our forces east of Basra so that we can sweep south into Cheju, (leave Hyangsan for later), then head up to Pusan. In the meanwhile, amass forces in Pisae, the road 2 east of Iznik, and on the wines SW of Pompeii. Then go in for those 3 cities at one (at the same time, taking Cheju).

On the 2nd round, the 3 city-forces would converge on Namp'o, while Pusan is dealt with. Then they will go and take out Hyangsan. Ulsan is a corrupt colony, so we can leave that for last.

Tech-wise, we could try and shoot for JSBach, or go for metallurg then navigation. We also need more libraries and universities now (even though techs are still in 4-6 turns).

A well written Summary :goodjob:. Hopefully I should get our troops to the border when I get the save. And hopefully The "Great Mining Project" will end since I have been practicing with my own game using tips that Chieftess gave me on Irrigation.

OK, "got it." I'll probably play tomorrow if the family crisis doesn't get any worse. If I don't play in time, well, you know why.

@ civgeneral: sorry mate, didn't mean to sound harsh, don't take me too seriously! It's a succ game, you have all the slack you need, but also constructive criticism where appropriate. As a general guide, hills/mts should be mined (no alternative), plains and deserts irrigated, flood plains irrigated (no alternative), tundra forested if poss, otherise mined (can't be irrigated), and grasslands mined unless there is a significant number of hills/mts/tundra in the city radius. This, of course, is just a guide and doesn't take bonus resources into account. Believe me, I'm no expert either, but this is a general guide that will ensure decent results.

@CT: I started Leo's, as Damascus was producing so many shields it would have been criminal not to snag a wonder there; this got lost with my original report. Also, after the Ottoman sneak attack I fortified 3 or 4 pikes along our western border and a couple of Ansars in the north near the sole Korean city in our midst, for speedy response in case of another betrayal. Again, this was in my original report (I'm sorry, I know it's my own fault for not writing it on notepad, and this makes it all the more frustrating).

Good stuff, Otto's are dead as is Rome; Greece and Korea won't last too much longer. Unless the French and Carthaginians are on a huge continent of their own, I suspect our own continent should be enough for domination

hehe... now that's gonna hurt. :) Domination and we don't even know what the whole world looks like.

My mother is back from the hospital and will be on her feet again soon.
I see that you're doing fine in the SG. Great job. :goodjob: I don't think you need my 'help' anymore... :lol:

And suddenly... the world looks a little less colorful. :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_minimap.gif

BTW, we could either go for Music Theory to get a wonder, or head straight up to Military Tradition. By then, we'll probably be attacking Korea with our army, and we'll need the heroic epic for the Military Academy (in New Penguin).


EDIT: Hmm, the lettering didn't show (I did it as a .gif image for the transparency effect)... But, the stats are:

Arabia - Monarchy 3.7.0
1150 AD 731 Gold (+17 per turn)
Music Theory (4 turns)

We could also get:

Printing Press in 4
Banking in 5
Navigation in 6
Physics in 6
Metallurgy in 6

(I just wished the Civ3 Demogame was doing this good. ;))

Anyway, since we nearly have the continent to ourselves (Seoul seems to be the only threat in terms of unit production), I think we can start focusing on some wonders. (I'd still like to see us get Cavalry though, before the AI does).

Medina could build Copernicus - It has the most commerce after corruption.

Damascus could build a palace prebuild after the Ansar (and a library) for JSBach. (approx 30 turns to complete JSBach).

New Penguin - naturally, the Military Academy. [micro

Mecca - It would take about 11 turns to complete the Heroic Epic (200 shields - Mecca makes 19spt after corruption)

So, for JSBach - we could even go Metallurgy-->Military Tradition-->Music Theory, since it's bound to be less than 30 turns. We could even throw in Physics while we're at it.

Originally posted by Chieftess
[B]And suddenly... the world looks a little less colorful. :DOh how I hope you can't get a domination victory by only your continent... :p

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Oh how I hope you can't get a domination victory by only your continent... :p

:hmm: What's that supposed to mean? :p

Originally posted by Chieftess


:hmm: What's that supposed to mean? :p Well, I hope that I didn't design the map so that your continent is all you get to experience of the map.

CT: of course, its the next player's call, but I would personally forget about music theory and go for military tradition. The game's over with cavs a little bit quicker, and its not like we desperately need more happiness, with 5 or 6 luxes, temples, colloseums, cathedrals, markets and Hanging Gardens, is it? :D

I just edited that post. Of course, like I said before, it's the builder in me. :D

We also have trade deals that will affect our income if we go to war now.

Korea:

4gpt for our gems
10gpt for our incense
8gpt for our spices
------------------------------
22gpt total

Rome:
12gpt for our dyes, spices and incense


Total: 24gpt. We could also build more markets and libraries for commerce and science...

Anyway, good luck SD on either taking out the Koreans while they're weak, or building our infrastructure a bit. There's a Korean Longbow close to our army that it could have fun with...

Originally posted by Nad
@ civgeneral: sorry mate, didn't mean to sound harsh, don't take me too seriously! It's a succ game, you have all the slack you need, but also constructive criticism where appropriate. As a general guide, hills/mts should be mined (no alternative), plains and deserts irrigated, flood plains irrigated (no alternative), tundra forested if poss, otherise mined (can't be irrigated), and grasslands mined unless there is a significant number of hills/mts/tundra in the city radius. This, of course, is just a guide and doesn't take bonus resources into account. Believe me, I'm no expert either, but this is a general guide that will ensure decent results.

K, thanks :). A Question, If anyone knows, What would be a general guide if you do take resources and Bonus shields into account?

Cracker knows, he has an article in the war accademy that goes into great depth about the values of various kinds of terrain and how to improve it.

See Crackers Civ3 Opening Plays.

The problems are dealt with (well, kind of... long story), and I should be able to play tomorrow, as I have no classes.

Originally posted by ShadowDragon
The problems are dealt with (well, kind of... long story), and I should be able to play tomorrow, as I have no classes.

Sounds good :). At least the Save will be ready once I return home from taking my SATs :).

Woohoo, I'm finally starting!

Highlights:

Almost eliminated Korea, got a great leader (who I left near our forbidden palace city), and got contact with the Carthaginians and the French. Here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_1250AD.SAV)'s the save.

Turn 0 - 1150 A.D.

Micromanaged a little bit, getting rid of a few entertainers. Switched science to metallurgy to get cavalry sooner. I upgrade our horseman to an Ansar Warrior. I start sending our offensive units to the Korean borders.

Iznik: 5s -> Marketplace

We trade gems to Korea for 10 gpt.

Turn 1 - 1160 A.D.

More troop movements. We'll be ready to attack Korea in two or three turns.

Greece moves a galley into our territory.

Viroconium: Temple -> Harbor

Turn 2 - 1170 A.D.

An investigation of P'yongyang reveals only minimal defensive forces (two spearman and a longbowman), but they have access to horses and saltpeter, so we must attack ASAP.

Turn 3 - 1180 A.D.

We declare war on the Koreans and take Cheju with zero losses. We also kill a few longbowmen and position ourselves for more attacks.

Turn 4 - 1190 A.D.

We capture P'yongyang and get a great leader. I rename the Ansar "Weapon of Mass Destruction." Our army attacks Seoul's musketman and doesn't even manage to shave off one HP! Wow! We better not try attacking this musketman with Modern Armor or we're bound to lose. We capture Hyangsan, and capture Seoul after throwing quite a few Ansars at it. Only one dies, but quite a few retreat.

Just about everyone starts loving the caliph because of our new ivory.

Turn 5 - 1200 A.D.

We regroup and start Military Tradition.

Turn 6 - 1210 A.D.

We capture Pusan, but fail to take Ulsan.

Turn 7 - 1220 A.D.

We capture both Wonsan and Namp'o with our Ansars, leaving the Koreans with only Ulsan.

Hama: Harbor -> Aqueduct
Aleppo: Something-or-another -> Harbor

Turn 8 - 1230 A.D.

Troop movements, worker movements, etc...

Turn 9 - 1240 A.D.

Our caravel sees a brown border... interesting...

Rome: Marketplace -> Courthouse
Aydin: Temple -> Harbor

Turn 10 - 1250 A.D.

We renegotiate peace with the Carthaginians, giving them world map in exchange for world map, contact with the French, 25 gold, and 5 gold/turn. France has only three cities!

Suggestions:

Upgrade to cavalry, use our great leader for something (cavalry army or rushing a wonder), attack Ulsan (which is lightly defended), attack Greece, and bring as many land and coast tiles into our boundaries as possible to achieve domination.

:mwaha: Looks like we're taking this game by storm. I'd really like to see a wonder. (But, I'm not sure when the Mil. Acad. will be done). Also, it looks like Nampo could use some culture right now. :) BTW, did we attack with our army? I don't see any sign of a heroic epic (which is needed for the Military Academy).

I Got it

Since I am browsing the forums a bit before I call it a night. I have decided to download the save so that I would be ready when I return from my SAT test.

Expect the save to be posted tommorow :). Wish me luck on the SATs tommorow ;)

nice to see our reputation healthy and thriving...gems deal with Korea, 3 turns later.... :lol:

Did our army actually win a fight? Or from your report, did it attack the musket and die? I hope not, heroic epic is always nice

It didn't die... It attacked a musket, failed to do any damage, and retreated.

The army is still standing elsewhere. I don't think it attacked.

CivGeneral's 10 Turns

Turn 0 - 1250AD

Checked the current situation of the game

Checked other civ's additues twards us

Turn 1 - 1255AD

Moving some healthy troops and an army to Antalya

Building up troops by the Greek border

Checked up on Micromanagement
(Whoh a whole lot of cities, better check with the domestic advisor

Turn 2 - 1260AD

The Greeks wants to talk with us
They want to exchange Territory Maps with us
I kindly sent him away since I do not want to run a risk of having them senning the TM to the Carths

We have Military Tradition :)

Science: MT -> Physics

Upgrading our Invasion force for the Greeks to Cavalry :)
Kept our gold at the 400 mark :)

Turn 3 - 1265AD

Moved compleated units to the Greek border

Checked up on Micromanagement

Turn 4 - 1270AD

Attacked Ulsan with our army of Ansars
Result: Captured the city and 3 settlers

Rushed built a Military Academy in New Penguin

The Koreans has not been detroyed,I susspect that they might have a romming settler around (See Charis's story )

Turn 5 - 1275AD

Just as I was about to start my Diplomacy check, Alex poped in
He wanted Dyes, Spices, and Incense in exchange for 12gpt. Accepted the deal :)
The Koreans poped up begging for peace, I accepted with the terms that the Koreans pay us 7gpt for war retributions

New Penguin: MA -> HE
(MA = Military Academy, HE = Heroic Epic)

Continued sending down more cavalry units for the invasion of greece

Turn 6 - 1280AD

Continued sending down more cavalry units for the invasion of greece

Checked up on Micromanagement and Diplomacy additudes

Adjusted the Sci rate

Turn 7 - 1285AD

Continued sending down more cavalry units for the invasion of greece

Checked up on Micromanagement and Diplomacy additudes

Turn 8 - 1290AD

We discovered Physics
Science: Physics -> Theory of Gravity

Continued sending down more cavalry units for the invasion of greece

Checked up on Micromanagement and Diplomacy additudes

Refiting cities build queues to build Cavalry

Turn 9 - 1295AD

Continued sending down more cavalry units for the invasion of greece

Checked up on Micromanagement and Diplomacy additudes

Turn 10 - 1300AD
Wonders where his mind is at, forgot one turn :smoke:

Sent units close to the Greek Border
One Cavalry group is 1 tile E of Namp'o
One Cavalry Group is 1 tile SW of Namp'o
One Cavalry Group is 1 tile NW of Hyanhsan

End of CG's 10 turns

PAD1 R 1300AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_1300AD.SAV)

Edit: Uploaded the new save

1295? You still have 1 more turn left. :) And there's no turn 8. The next player has it. Judging from the map, I just hope there's a huge empty continent out there. Or else we'll have a very easy domination victory. (and we could just keep on playing0.

Originally posted by Chieftess
1295? You still have 1 more turn left. :) And there's no turn 8. The next player has it. Judging from the map, I just hope there's a huge empty continent out there. Or else we'll have a very easy domination victory. (and we could just keep on playing0.

New save is up with my 10 full turns compleated :). Sorry about that ;).

I guess this means I'm up, will play tonight and post

...but not quite :p

Preturn survey: Our empire is huge! I'm surprised we haven't already won; anyway, we will soon. Alex, you're dead.

We already have all the military we need so I veto all the cav being built, switch nearly every city to a culture building for the hell of it.

Mass troops into position. This ain't gonna be pretty (from a Greek point of view, of course)

Embassies established with the French and Carthiginians (again, for the hell of it).

Early: we have active deals with the Greeks? Blah :ack: we blew our reputation ages ago, a lux deal now ain't gonna make any difference. Could I have Navigation please, Alex? No? Oh dear...

Delphi and Corinth are ours before you can blink. Thermopylae next turn. Athens is more bloody, and we lost our army to a Greek musket :cry: not that it matters now. Again, we control Sistine and the Oracle, but not that it matters. Sparta...and the Greeks are left with Knossos on the tudra island in the sout. We control our continent.

Middle: every turn I waited with baited breath to be told we had won by domination. It did not materialize. I signed peace with the Greeks, giving them 21gold and getting navigation in return. I congregated our military, and planned what to do next. Do we invade Carthage or France? How?

Late: I figured that we may well trigger domination by border expansions in our newly captured cities ao I began to rush some culture buildings in our new territories. Basically I'm undecided on whether to invade the other continents or just wait for border expansions.
On my last turn we entered the industrial ages, by trading chemistry to the Carthiginians for banking, the last tech we needed. Also sold chemistry to Greece for lots of gold and gpt (where are they gonna get it from?) The Koreans also have founded a city, in the deep south on a tundra isle. So the Greeks and Koreans have 1 city each, the French 3, the Carthiginians about 12, and us...well, I can't be asked counting; also, tale a look at the histograph when you open the game, it's ....nice :lol:

To the next player: you decide whether to let border expansions win the game for us or if an invasion of Carthage is required. If you want to wait foir border expansions, I suggest rushing culture buildings in our new cities. We also have some wonders going (Cop's, Newton's and Heroic Epic) and I've started palace as a prebuild in Medina. Take your pick of science...I've set to steam power but there's nothing been invested yet...you might want to go for Music Theory or economics for the associated wonders.

If however, an invasion of Carthage is required, then I'm sorry because I didn't really prepare for this in my turns (for two-thirds of my turn I didn't think it would be necessary). Our navy consists of ...1 caravel (sorry:( ) However, any one of a number of coastal cities can be switched to galleons if you like (most are working on libraries at the moment). One problem we have is that we don't have any decent coastal cities, our power-base is inland (so Magellan's, for instance, is out of the question). I have helpfully congregated our military on the hill outside sparta; as far as SOD's go, I think you'll find this one quite impressive:D (try right-clicking on the stack, if you want to know what I mean). A few loose military units are on their way there also.

Anyway, if we don't win within the next 20 turns I'll be amazed. The hard work is done, we're on the path to glory...the only question is, to whom will the privilege of victory fall?

The save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1r-1350AD.sav

Okay. Ill play it tomorrow. I think ill just spend the time building.

Looks like it's about to come to an end! Stuck is next! If they next player thinks we can win, rush all of our temples. We certainly have the money to do it.

Stuck - if you do happen to win, be sure to take a screenshot of everything (and have Photoshop or PaintShopPro onhand).

Also, if we do win (and this one seems so easy), do we want to continue?

This is the official "Ive got it!"
if we win, I am wrapping it up and not playing past the winning turn. If we continue, ill take it from there.
CT- I have photoshop ready and rearing to go.

My Ten Turns:
Is victory at hand?

T1: Hanabal renigotiates peace for peace. I accept. Rome: Library-Cathedral(7). Pompeii: Acquaduct-Library(14). Palace is upped. We now have a full palace. Greeks are on small island, pure tundra. Dosent take a CT to figure out thats goning to remain a small city. i trade WM for WM w/ the Koreans. They have no city. They're on a boat out there, somewhere. Im just fortifying the units in cities, on call in case Carthage attacks. Worker actions, end turn.

T2: Bursa: Aquaduct-Library(16). Izink and Cornith riot. Hire entertainers in both. Chenju: Temple-Library(40). Suhar: Courthouse-Library(40). Carthage is building Copernicus (im soooo scared :) ). End

T3: Taif: Courthouse-Library(80). Kufah: Colloseum-Bank(14). Anjar: Colloseum-Bank(11). Antalya: Library-Courthouse(27)

T4: Uskudar:Aquaduct-Library(9) Hyangsan: Temple-Library(80) Hispalis: Library-Courthouse(14)

T5: I hate workers. Cityless Korea redoes peace. I accept. Edrine: Temple-Cathedral (12). Antinum: Library-Market(10). Fustat: Library-Bank(14). Aydin: Harbor-Library(20). New Penguin completes Herioic Epic. Temple in 3.

T6: Same thing i said in T5, I HATE WORKERS!! Bursa: University-Bank(20) Muscat: Library-Market(20). Bukhara: Library-Cathedral(20). Shiraz: Library-Markrt (20)

T7: Workers... cant live with'em, cant live without'em. Damascus builds Copernicus's Observatory. Library in 4. Pusan: Library-Cathedral(8). Konya: Library-Cathedral(8). Tabuk: Library-Courthouse(12)

T8: C'mon... Just gimme a victory! Rome: Cathedral-University(16). Hama: Aqueduct-Library(27). Istanbul: Cathedral-University(23). Ravenna: Aqueduct-Library(16). Bayt Ras: Courthouse-Library(20). New Penguin: Temple-Library(8). A note to next player: I have a loaded caravel outside of Pharsalos. If we find the urge to, go kill Alex.

T9: Still no victory. On this turn, providing our bank is big enough, im rushing all temples in what was Greece. Steam power researched. Checking the map for coal. Researching Nationalism. Bergen Riots. As dose Antium. :SMOKE: is seen coming from both cities. Baghdad: Coloseum-University(14). Najran: Coloseum-Bank(13) Cumae: Colosseum-Courthouse(10). Iznik:Temple-Cathedral(27). Mansura riots. So does Shiraz(note to self... MICROMANAGE BETTER!!). Shihr: Courthouse-Aqueduct(50). Map Update: Koreans settle on small island. Coal is near New Damascus.

T10: No victory, yet. Coal is being connected. Newtons built in Mecca. Some freak clapping halls, says hes trying to figure out speed of sound. Go figure.. University in 11.Athens:Temple-Library(80) Sparta is same as Athens. Neapolis:Library-Market(17). Aleppo:Colosseum-University(29). Pharsalos is same as Athens. Fez riots. Plumes of :smoke: seen rising from city, forming shape of a settler carying a walking stick. Thunder booms and kinda sounds like "SaaM!!" End my 10 turns.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1R_1400AD.SAV

I think victory is really close. (Unless you were saving it for me? How thoughtful? ;)) Too bad I wasn't in the chatroom yesterday to cheer you on, my ISP's router failed. Couldn't get on for almost 24 hours! :eek:

Good luck, CT, I think it would be very fitting for you, as our leader, to have the honour of crossing the finishing line :)

Perhaps, though, we do need to invade? If so, 1 or 2 cities may be all we need, so just go for it if you have the chance, rushing whatever we need.

We have won!

Turn 0 (1400AD)

Looking around, I see a bunch of temples that can be rushed (and "vacant" land). I don't know how many we'll need, but the rushing begines! (somehow, I think some were rushed a bit "late")...

Thermopylae - temple rushed for 48g
Delphi - temple rushed for 44g
Corinth - temple rushed for 48g

Hmm, some cities are rioting. Where's the micromanagement? Also, Carthage has the only visible source of coal.

Turn 1 (1405AD)

Damascus: Library > University
Thermopylae: Temple > Courthouse
Khurasan: University > Bank
Corinth: Temple > Cathedral
Delphi: Temple > Courthouse
Merw: Library > Market

I notice Shiraz is starving, and remedy the situation. Hmm, mining (and clearing forest!) in the tundra. :smoke: We can build forests now, much better than mines. True, rails make it 2 shields. But, forest give a 25% defense bonus, and we don't have any coal for rails connected in our borders yet. There's also a worker clearing dyes where no city can even use it! Even the forest in the field are being cleared! (field being grasslands) We can't build rails! Cutting down forests like this is wasting valuble shields!

I also rush Ulsan's temple (missed it last turn)

Turn 2 (1410AD)

Izmit: Harbor > Market
Ulsan: Temple > Library

I decide to switch New Penguin to a market, as it will need the happiness. (I still can't believe there's mined tundra where no city will ever use it...)

Turn 3 (1415AD)

I watch as more forests are cleared, diminishing our spt. :( (not to mention in areas our cities can't even reach yet)

Turn 4 (1420AD)

Whoa! Now this is strange! Pyongpang has DISPOSED of our governor and pledged alliegence to Korea! I've never seen a culture flip like this, this far after a war! Someone didn't push enough culture...

Kufah: Bank > University
Anjar: Bank > University

Now Izmit is rioting. I also rush some cav to retake the city. (Looks like our score will be a bit dented. :( )

Turn 5 (1425AD)

Our borders are expanding...

Aden: Acquaduct > Courthouse
Mansura: Courthouse > Market

Seems some of our cities are revolting (shouldn't affect score too much - probably rioting because of the newly declared war too. )

We have won!!! [dance]:jump::goodjob::bday::goodjob::jump:[dance]

Score: 3934

(picutres will be coming - I only have a 56k modem you know.)

Well done, everybody, a splendid early victory! :king: The Arab war machine proved unstoppable

I really enjoyed that, my first completed succ game (my second, N1 Persia should also be completed shortly). A big thank you to everyone on the team for making it such fun (and for being so enthusiastic - we only started this 3 weeks ago!!!)

Look forward to the pics, CT, and perhaps a save so we can all add this to our Hall of Fame? As I mentioned above, very fitting that we should come full circle for you to complete the victory:love:

We win! We win!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_R_WinTime.jpg

Korea is still alive, and is taunting us! :eek:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_R_tuant.jpg

Top 5 cities.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_R_top5.jpg

We're #1!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_R_histograph.jpg

Only the best! :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_R_Ranking.jpg

So, what does everyone want to do? Wrap it up and go home? Or continue and conquer the world?

I think we may as well wrap up and head for pastures new. This game was pretty easy and conquest wouldn't take too much longer. It could be interesting though, and would be a good exercise for those who struggle with naval combat. If everyone wishes to continue I would also do so, but I think we should now cheer on our warlord counterparts!

Friends,

I was thinking about starting an "always war" succession game with a few variants, such as all the civs would be militaristic (could get messy). I've played a few always war solo games and they are tremendous fun. Since we've done so well in this SG, would some of you be interested in participating? No previous experience of always war would be required, this could be a sort of training game and I guarantee it will be fun. The difficulty level would be regent (though it will feel like emperor!) so everyone who played this one would probably do quite well. What do you think?!:cool:

Im for a O or F CC.
Mabey an always war OCC.. that would be interesting....
really interesting

I've been mostly lurking these last few days... Congrats to us on the early domination!