This is from the PAD1 setup (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40604) for the warload team. The random civ turned out to be Arabia.

Regent 4000BC Gamesave (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_Regent.SAV)

Arabia is Religious, Expansionist
UU: Ansar Warrior 4.2.3, 60 shields, requires iron and horses.

Remember, I play the first 20 turns.

For the first round, everyone plays 20 turns.

The Team Roster for the Regent team is:

Round 4: Turn 180 - Turn 230

1 - Chieftess
2 - ShadowDragon
3 - CivGeneral
4 - Nad Turn Ended
5 - Stuck_As_a_Mac Now Playing

Round 5: Turn 230 - Turn 280

1 - Chieftess On Deck?
2 - ShadowDragon
3 - CivGeneral
4 - Nad
5 - Stuck_As_a_Mac

Here's the writeup! (Remember, don't look at the other team's thread until the industrial ages. (for both teams) Being regent, we may get there first.

4000BC (turn 0)

Starting location looks ok. It appears we're in the center of the world (just a bit to the left). Lake, some bonus shields, and lots of forest (good for early production, but will need irragation to support more than 2). There's some jungle to the SE. Do we settle here? Or explore a bit? We're expasionist, we have a scout!

Scout heads south - more grass and forest. Is that a coast to the west? There's a bonus sheild to our SE, and 1 that's 2 to the north. I don't want to waste any time moving around and waiting for culture to grab 2 shields (not to mention, there may be more forest to the east and west).

We settle. Mecca is founded. Production is switched to a scout, and the worked tile is placed on the forest. It slows growth, but gets our scout out quicker, and may net a future advantage. We send the worker to the bonus shield tile. Next, we survey the land. Is that a luxury I see? (I use the easy to spot luxs, a smiley appears in the distance) In the jungle to the east? It could be dyes, gems, silk or spice! There is also a river in the jungle.

Now, what to research? We're expansionist, so we could go with masonry and hope that we're on a sizable continent. Because this world is random, and barbs are restless, we'll go with Bronze Working. The AI researches at the same pace, so setting it to 0% doesn't work at this level. It's set to full throttle.

Nothing more to do this turn.

3950BC (turn 1)

The scout explores further south. What's this? 2 wheat and a goody hut? I hope there's a settler there!

3900BC (turn 2)

The settler enters the hut and finds... a skilled warrior! Looks like the land to the SW might be coast. The warrior will investigate there, then turn up to the capital for MP duty. More jungle (and forest) to the SE.

3850BC (turn 3)

Scout heads east into the jungle. He sees hills and the river going into the coast. The warrior continues west. Our 2nd scout is due next turn and will head north. The worked forest is producing 1 extra shield, so we move it to the bonus grasslands that our working is building a mine on.

3800BC (turn 4)

Our scout is built and heads west. It will head north next turn. The warrior heads west, and sees land on the other side of the coast. Perhaps it's a bay? The scout heading into the jungle sees a mountain on the other side of the river. It's time to micromanage Mecca again. The worked tile goes back on the forest.

3750BC (turn 5)

Our 2nd scout goes west then north. There seems to be a desert tile, with a forest and hills to the NW. There's also plains, and... 2 cattle! Our warrior heads towards the bay and sees.. another lake! The scout in the jungle climbs on a hill, but doesn't see much. Just more jungle.

3700BC (turn 6)

Jungle scout heads north. The luxury is dyes! There's also a clearing in the jungle! The other scout and warrior head north. There's a goody hut up there! The warrior also spots some jungle to the west. The next scout is complete in 2 turns. The worked tile can come off the forest, and on to the bonus grasslands with no change in production time. (Why didn't I see this sooner? :smoke: )

3650BC (turn 7)

Our mine is done! Production of the scout is complete in 1 turn. It only needs 1 shield, but we're production 3 per turn. We place it on the lake, which bumps Bronze Working from 17 turns to 11 turns! Nice! A road is then started on the mine. The jungle scout heads north and sees another lake to the east, along with lots of hills, mountains, grasslands, and the river continuing to the NE. Our warrior heads north. Nothing much to see as it moves around the lake. The northern scout walks into the goody hut, and... we get a map of the region! There's the hills, and it has incense! There's also a desert with a river running through it! Floodplains!! There's another river north of that one! This is definately a wet, warm world. But what kind?

The real question is, do we know enough to know where to found our 2nd city? There's wheat to the south, but a bit far from the capital. We want a tight build. The reason? 1 - reduced corruption. 2 - The city will only use 12 tiles max for much of the game, wasting 8 tiles. There's still some areas to the NE and SE that can be explored. The scout will be built, and settler production will commence.

3600BC (turn 8)

We get word that our treasury is running low. We can handle it for another 10 turns. Our city grows in 5, so we'll be in the clear by then. We have 11 food saved up, with 9 more to go. In 4 turns, it will be 1 food away. That's when we switch to the forest. The settler will have 4 shields worked towards it. At turn 5, it will have 7 shields. Then we'll micromanage when it grows.

We move the eastern (jungle) scout NE and see a goody hut! Instead of going on to the mountain, we enter, and... out pops a city! (Medina) Normally, this is one of the things I hate from Civ2. But, with the tight build plan, and the surronding terrain, it's more than perfect! :jump: Time to micromanage the city. The city has corruption! That means the cattle isn't doing much. So, we place the worked tile on the lake. Bronze Working just increased from 8 turns to 7! We also switch from a warrior to a worker. Growth and production are both in 10. If there's any sign of trouble, it can quickly build a warrior.

Our northern settler trudges north, and will curve east.

3550BC (turn 9)

The people love us, and offer to expand our palace! Scout/warrior pair head to the jungle west of the capital. There's forest game in the area, but more jungle and desert. The north scout heads east. The desert appears to continue that way. The Medina scout heads for the mountains. The view shows more rivers, mountains, plains, floodplains, and... a purple border!? Contact next turn!

3500BC (turn 10)

Mecca's borders expand. We can now use the other bonus grassland to the south of our mine. We move our "north scout" first. Looks like the desert curves to the SE. Our western expedition force continues west. Not much to write home about. The Medina Scout (renamed), walks onto the mountains. It's the Vikings! And they have a warrior in their city. They have warrior code, but won't part with it just yet. We could renegotiate peace, but it's best to play it safe for now. (We only have 10g, that's it). A quick scan of the histograph indicates that we're 5 points ahead with 40 points. The Vikings have 35. Trondheim is the 5th best city (I'm sure they're all tied right now). Other civs in the world (from the top 5) are: Ottomans, Koreans, Carthagians, and Greeks. We are 4th in Mfg. Goods (total sheilds being produced), but 1st in productivity with 13 (total of food, shields and commerce before corruption). This is because we're micromanaging right now. We have the largest land area, as we're probably one of the only civs with more than 1 city.

3450BC (turn 11)

Our western expedition spots more jungle and some forest. The desert and plains seem to end just past the forest. The northern scout curves down and sees forest, and 1 grassland tile where the desert ends. Not the best place for a city, so the 2 cattle and 1 wheat wins this match. No need to even try placing a road for the settler. Forests would take too long. The Medina Scout heads eats to the other mountain, and sees desert to the east. There's forest (right next to the desert! wow), plains and some grasslands to the NE.

3400BC (turn 12)

We spot a scout (Viking) below our Medina scout coming from the east (the desert). If there were any goody huts there, it's probably looted. We'll head north. Our "north scout" also turns north again onto a hill. More desert and forest. The western troops find a goody hut in site (warrior), and some wines (below the scout). Mecca grows in 1, time to micromanage. Our tech only drops by 1, but gaining 8 turns in micromanaging more than made up for it.

3350BC (turn 13)

Our warrior walks into the goody hut, and finds... a map of the region! There's more wines, and some wheat. It's a small patch of jungle, with grass, desert and plains to the SW. Further SW, there also appears to be... another border! This one definately is a shade of blue. Is it the Koreans? The other western scout heads west, then south, and sees another goody hut. In the east, both scouts head north. Ah! We've reach the coast! The other sees a mountain that would make for a nice lookout point. Tech check reveals nothing yet. It's still early in the game. Mecca grows. Time to micromanage. Our city grows in 20, but the settler in 5. Too slow. We'll move 1 tile to the lake, and the other to the tile the worker is working on. (It will need to be moved soon - in 4 turns). The city now grows in 10, and the settler in 11. Bronze Working is done in 2 turns. Micromanage that next turn.

3300BC (turn 14)

Our Western Scout enters the hut and fints 25 gold. He then heads south as the warrior heads west. The north scout goes to the northern mountain, and sees plains, with wheat by a river, and possible grasslands to the north. The Medina Scout heads north, and finds tundra. The Vikings will be slightly crippled. Bronze Working in 1! It can be micromanaged. We can take it down to 80%, and gain 1 gold. (A small gain, but when you have hundreds of cities, that can mean a few hundred gpt).

3250BC (turn 15)

We have Bronze Working! What to research next? We're religous, so we could take the monoarchy track. We're also expansionist, so we could take masonry and construction track. (not very useful, but you'd think it would be). We can research at the same rate the AI can, so no real need for lit. and the Great Library. We'll see what that mystery civ can offer first. Our scout moves in, and... it's the Koreans! They have the alphabet, and warrior code, but don't have pottery and cerimonial burial. They won't give the two techs so easily. There's really no need to attack them in the next 20 turns, so we try a peace renegotiation... SUCCESS! For peace, we get Alphabet and Warrior code for our 2 techs and 14 gold. Previously, they were insulted by a 2 for 2 deal. They go from cautious to polite! The Vikings don't have Bronze or the Alphabet! Now that we actually have something they don't, we can check each turn for a free worker. In PTW, workers are MUCH more expensive. We explore a bit more in the north-east. The Vikings have spices, and there appears to be tundra just north of that river. We'll go for Iron Working to see where the iron is located. Switching the science slider to 100% gets iron working in 21 instead of 24.

3200BC (turn 16)

Our scouts continue exploring, and the northern one finds a hut. In it is... Mysticism! Korea also appears to be on flood plains. Our worker is done next turn.

3150BC (turn 17)

Scouts continue to explore. The Medina Scout finds a regional map in a goody hut (not much, as it's mostly discovered/sea). Now for some micromanaging fun! Mecca grows in 6, but the settler is done in 4. The settler needs 12 shields for completion. We will move the worked bonus grassland to the normal grassland tile for 3 turns, then switch back. This removes 2spt (6 shields that would have gone wasted). In latter turns, this can mean more gpt. Trade check - no one has workers.

3100BC (turn 18)

Our worker in Medina is complete, and will start mining the cow. Since the worked tile on the cattle can't do anything, we switch it to the lake for now. Our scouts (and warrior) continue to explore and fine more floodplains, jungles, deserts, plains and grasslands. This is one diverse continent!

3050BC (turn 19)

Scouts continue to explore. Nothing exciting as of yet. Nothing new on the trading front.

3000BC (turn 20)

It's time to micromanage Mecca. We move the worked grass tile back onto the mined bonus tile. Growth and settler in 3! There is a Viking warrior by Medina, apparently on scouting duty. A temporary settler is being created in Medina.


For the next player

Below is a map that shows the city placement. The first city should be by those cattle and wheat (It's marked by the blue squares). The city should be founded in 7 turns, and should be a good settler factory. I've also played against the AI enough to know that they AI always sends one warrior on scouting missions... I don't think we need to worry about that warrior yet.

Besure to place cities on the blue squares. If you noticed, I used a mostly tight build pattern. That's our "first ring", since before sanitation, we can only use up to 12 tiles.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1.jpg

@Chieftess: Can I join?

I'm waiting for SG's on monarch level, but they're not coming. Since I never played a SG before and I like to experience other playing styles, this looks like a nice one for me.

ok, this looks good. First of all, from a roster point of view, I won't be available to play between Friday 10th January and Sunday 12th Jan, so could I move to the end of the roster please?

Nice start, 2 or 3 luxes available already, this is continents or pangaea. I hope I don't bump into you in a dark alley, Chieftess!! Renegotiating peace on initial contact and when our military consisted of 1 conscript warrior:eek: :eek:

like the early 2nd scout, not entirely sure if it was worth slowing our growth to the extent that you had to use a normal grass as opposed to a bonus grass to avoid shield waste.

Also [and I haven't looked at the save yet, so this is an uneducated observation] is it really necessary to have a tight build? Sure most of the tiles don't get used til late in the game, but if we space our cities further apart, it denies land to the AI, so we control more territory with less cities. I tend to go with cities at least 4 squares apart, and mostly 5 apart, unless the land is especially limited, and this does not appear the case here. What do you think?

Looking forward to it though, looks very nice

Aggie - sure.

@Nad -

I know peace renegotiation is an unorthodox method (if not a forgotten art), but at the very least, you can usually still go with peace for peace. It also allows you to get techs cheaper when the AI normally won't give them to you, and you might be able to get away with giving the AI 1 tech instead of two (thus stalling them for maybe 10 turns or so).

Also, tight built is a proven method. Notice how Medina already has corruption. It also allows you to quickly defend your civ from the capital. Optimal is a city 3 tiles away. A spear that's built in the capital can reach any 8 cities (in an optimal build pattern) in 1 turn. To see what it's like, look at the Civ3 Demgoame. We used a tight build there, and it allowed for quick unit upgrades. They say (American) football is a game of inches. Civ3 is a game of shields. :) Building close means the difference between building a unit this turn, or building one next turn. You can actually speed up production of units, which is good for antiquity wars.

That's great!

Since we're not allowed to look at the other thread, I've got a couple of questions. What kind of map are we playing on, how many opponents, what are the rules, etc...?

@Aggie - The map is a standard map with random settings, and restless barbs.

So far, it appears to be:

warm, wet, 5 billion years.
Perhaps continents, but we can't be sure yet once we start exploring the seas.

but, though we may reduce distance corruption, we're going to have a lot more corruption due to being over the OCN, which on a standard map is just 16; so for every city over that , our whole empire will suffer more corruption. Tight build gives us a small early advatage but is detrimental long-term. No worries, this is just an opinion and is (I think) what makes SGs so much fun, different ideas on playing style. I'm perfectly happy to go for a tight build, just thought I'd present the case for the other option.

Good luck to next player, and is it ok for me to go last?

The Vikings are nasty neighbours. Aggressive, their scout will beat us to some goody huts and with a super UU. Luckily the AI doesn't know how to use it to their full potential (amphibious attacks). :p

EDIT: @Chieftess: which victory conditions and do we have to stick to certain rules (always war, honorable, ...) ?

@Nad - It's a trade-off, but the 2nd ring in an OCP pattern would have a bit more corruption. If we find another continent (assuming there is one, and we're not on the only continent in an archipelago map), we can have a central FP with an OCP build there (if it's feasible). Tight build is especially useful on the higher levels when you have to start competiting with the AI's increased production, and you have to wage early wars.

@Aggie - We were just as agressive, and beat the AI to about a good dozen huts. ;) I noticed their scout looking around in the south, so I figured there would be no chance of goodie huts there, and took a chance that the AI didn't look closer to their territory (and it paid off). EDIT: :p All victory conditions are on, and we should play honorably (no declaring war in the AI's territory, no signing peace when we still have a military allience, etc.).

Nad, Chieftess. My strategy would be to have two core cities with no overlap and then have the rest like chieftess suggests. The core cities can then be used for building a lot of settlers and a few wonders.

The problem with a OCP build (I just tested), is that the city would end up with 25% corruption. 2 (free) tiles away, it's about 8%, 3 tiles, it's 16%. (Also, the main reason the SW city is one out of the tight build is because it gives us a port).

@Chieftess: It's OK. I must remind myself that this is a standard map. I'm used to play huge maps... BTW: I also don't use OCP one huge maps...

I've got it! I have two more classes today (Fourth-Year French and C++), so I may have to wait until tomorrow to play and post the save.

Ok, we'll wait! :D

@Chieftess: did I miss the gamesave after your turn?

EDIT: I found it in the general PAD1 thread...
EDIT2: No, I didn't. It was the starting position :o

WHOOPS! :blush:

PAD1 3000BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_Turn20_3000BC.zip)


BTW, Padma and I are rethinking the everyone plays 20 turns the first round. With 5 players, that's 1/5th of the game.

Chieftess, I can't download the file.... unknown location...

EDIT: OK, I'm third, so I suggest to play 10 turns each starting with me...

Try

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_R_Turn20_3000BC.zip

I think that'll work and is what you're looking for.

Arathorn

@Arathorn: thanks!

Yeah, somehow my game directory got copied over... It's fixed.

There's been a bit of a change in the schedule. We're having a "step down" approach, where the current player plays 20 turns, the next will play 15, then we'll continue with 10 each. Look at the player list at the top of the thread to see how many turns you have to play.

Originally posted by ShadowDragon
I've got it! I have two more classes today (Fourth-Year French and C++), so I may have to wait until tomorrow to play and post the save.

SD, where's the save?

Originally posted by Chieftess


SD, where's the save?

I'm playing right now :)

Turn 0 - 3000 B.C. - Browsing around, I don't see anything to veto. However, I do notice that using Mecca as a settler factory without biulding a granary is extremely ineffecient, as we can only build a settler every 20 turns there instead of every 10. I think I'll settle between the cattle and the wheat and make that town a settler factory. The Scandinavian warrior walks inside the Medina city boundary.
Turn 1 - 2950 B.C. - I contact our friend Ragnar Lodbrok and he promises that his warrior will leave. According to our advisor, our military is weak compared to the Scandinavian one. I send the worker from Mecca's forests to the north to irrigate. The scout west of our rival Korea finds a coastline. Our southern warrior also explores, finding a hut filled with primitive natives after 50 years of exploration. We hope they will be friendly to our cause. Well, the Scandinavian warrior moves to a different tile within Medina's boundaries.
Turn 2 - 2900 B.C. - It looks as if he was telling the truth. We get 25 gold in the goody hut. I just noticed that our worker is mining, not irrigating, the cattle. I'm no Sirian, but that smells like weed to me... Especially since we're on water and can grow above population 6 without an aqueduct, it would be to our advantage to grow there as quickly as possible. Mining the tile would increase shield production in the (very) short run, but irrigating would give us a great high-production size-12 city sooner. I make the change. The Scandinavians then leave our territory.
Turn 3 - 2850 B.C. - When the settler finishes, I start on a warrior. We can then build a warrior, then we might be ready for a settler. That should be our last settler from there, then we can work on workers to clear those forests. We find another goody hut and another cultural border, this one green and south of Korea. I'm guessing it's the Persians.
Turn 4 - 2800 B.C. - We learn Masonry from the goody hut.
Turn 5 - 2750 B.C. - The green civ turns out to be Greece, and we stumble upon two more cultural borders, one red and one orange. Who could they be? I'm guessing the red one's Babylon.
Turn 6 - 2710 B.C. - The oranges are the Ottomans! We found Damascus and start a granary there.
Turn 7 - 2670 B.C. - The reds are the Romans... That makes me 0 for 2. I start a temple at Medina to expand its borders. We are religious, so that helps.
Turn 8 - 2630 B.C. - Zzzzzz.
Turn 9 - 2590 B.C. - Zzzzzz.
Turn 10 - 2550 B.C. - Micromanage for 1 beaker.
Turn 11 - 2510 B.C. - Zzzzzz.
Turn 12 - 2470 B.C. - 25 gold in goody hut.
Turn 13 - 2430 B.C. - Micromanage for 3 gold.
Turn 14 - 2390 B.C. - The Wheel to 100%. I think we should build up a force of chariots then upgrade them to Ansar Warriors, which we can use to take over the Scandinavians.
Turn 15 - 2350 B.C. - Zzzzzz.

Notes to next player: In Damascus, irrigate the wheat to get to five surplus food per turn. No need to irrigate the second cattle, but you can put a road on that tile. After the granary finishes, pump out a settler every four turns. Watch for happiness while at it; you may have to use the luxury slider. In Medina, build a barracks, then chariots. In Mecca, a settler first, then workers, etc. All subject to your review, of course. I agree with Chieftess's dotmap except for the northeastern town, which I suggest moving on top of the hill by the river. I suggest founding a town one tile east of the iron by Scandinavia. Of the just two iron resources I see on the map, it's the only one we might be able to grab first. We do need iron for our UU. Also, that location provides a very nice staging point for an attack on Scandinavia.

Sorry, I don't have time to tar the save file. Have to leave to see a movie now.

EDIT: Just looked up their UU. Ouch. We should be able to beat them with fast forces though, against slow, defensively weak Berserkers.

Hmm... Looks like I should get ready to play my 10 turn :).

The thing about the cattle.. I used to irragate it, but I've seen people mine it because it gives an instant 3 food and 2 shields, rather than all growth and little production, especially if there's wheat AND cattle. Irragate wheat, mine cattle. Also, did you try to see what techs the Greeks and Romans had? Sounds like our continent curves to the SW, and we're on the edge.

I have to visit my mother in the hospital. That means that I won't be able to post much the coming day. But I will be able to finish my part tomorrow evening or sunday morning at the latest (CET).

So. this is my I've got it! (without having the savegame yet....).

Shadowdragon, I also like to know whether you traded things with the other civs.

I agree with you that the Vikings must be attacked before they attack us with their UU. We have a fast UU that comes about the same time, if we anticipate this by building horsemen, we should have no trouble with them. So I agree with you. But first: expand!

The UU requires iron and horses, so naturally, we should research those two techs to map out the land.

No, I didn't trade anything because there was nothing to trade for except a few gold from each civ, IIRC. Didn't realize I didn't post the save, so here it is:

There's 2 visible iron sources - one near the Vikings (their next city could be that spot...), and one by the Koreans. We have a nice area though, where we can block out the other 4 civs, and contain the Vikings while we slowly chomp down on them. :) Just hope we have horses nearby, or else it's Plan C - Archers, of which we'd have to do a blitz through the future Viking heartland.


Anyway, Aggie, you're up! After researching The Wheel, go with horsebackriding if we have horses close by. Otherwise, we can hope those catapults in Mathematics come in handy. Lots of horses enmasse can do some considerable damage to a stack of swordsmen.

Also, we can have another settler in Mecca. With a little micromanagement (move the shields to the grasslands for a turn or two), we can have another settler. in about 8 turns

Originally posted by Chieftess
The thing about the cattle.. I used to irragate it, but I've seen people mine it because it gives an instant 3 food and 2 shields, rather than all growth and little production, especially if there's wheat AND cattle. Irragate wheat, mine cattle.I was thinking along the lines of irrigation allowing us to grow 2 turns more quickly (4 at higher populations), compounding over several growth cycles, netting us a bunch of extra shields.

After researching The Wheel, go with horsebackriding if we have horses close by.I wonder if it would be more efficient to build cheap chariots then upgrade. I've never tried it before, but that could very well be the case.

Also, we can have another settler in Mecca. With a little micromanagement (move the shields to the grasslands for a turn or two), we can have another settler. in about 8 turnsThere's a flaw in that reasoning. That would be giving up shields and getting nothing in return. If you're going to do that, you might as well switch to settler but keep the same tiles, wasting 3 turns of shields waiting for the city to grow. If we stay on our present course and build a settler next, we'll still get a settler in 8 turns or so and have an extra warrior while we're at it.

In a developed city, that would mean the difference between a few extra GPT.

Looks like I am on deck ready to play the save :).

Originally posted by Chieftess
In a developed city, that would mean the difference between a few extra GPT. I'm not sure I understand what this refers to :confused:.

I hope you don't mind my criticism. It really is my nature -- I'm like that with everyone :D. Please do :spank: some sense into me if you see any :smoke:.

Now, let's go and get :flamedevi himself (a.k.a. :viking: ) to our east.

I'm having too much fun with these smilies :lol:

OK people, I'm back. Keep your fingers crossed, because your game is in my hands now ;)

Turn 0 - 2350 BC

First thing to do is to listen to the advisors in the game and at CFC. We have a stronger military than the Vikings! Decide to leave everything as it is.

Interturn: Nothing special. A Roman settler is going south to settle.

Turn 1 - 2310 warrior finished in Mecca

Decide to build a warrior before starting the settler...

Turn 2 - 2270 BC exiciting turn, nothing to report...

Turn 3 - 2230 BC finished warrior in Mecca, start building to settler. Finished temple in Medina, start building barracks. Contacted all civs. Managed to get Writing from Korea for Mysticism, 25 gold and contact with the Romans (their neighbours...)

Turn 4 - 2190 BC Zzzzzzzzzzzz

Turn 5 - 2150 BC Got 25 gold from a goody box

Turn 6 - 2110 BC Zzzzzzzzzzzz

Interturn: a warrior barely survives a barbarian attack

Turn 7 - 2070 BC A scout ends the turn next to a barbarian...

Interturn: one scout gone

Turn 8 - 2030 BC Finished the wheel. Start researching horseback riding now. Ready in 9 turns at 100% science (-1 gpt). No horses nearby!!! :eek: The closest are 7 tiles away northwest of Damascus. The Vikings DO have horses... :cry:

Turn 9 - 1990 BC Finished settler in Mecca, start building temple. Finished granary in Damascus, start building settler. The other civs have nothing to offer. I decide to go after the horses to the northwest and send the settler there. Luxury to 10% (science to 90%) for Medina.

Turn 10 - 1950 BC Our second scout also ends next to a barbarian.

Interturn: Second scout gone

Turn 11 - 1910 BC Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Turn 12 - 1870 BC Luxury to 20 %, science to 80%. Medina finished barracks. Start building archer. No horsies, no iron, what am I to do? :undecide:

Turn 13 - 1830 BC Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Turn 14 - 1790 BC Our last scout will also not survive my turn...

Turn 15 - 1750 BC Baghdad founded near the Incense. Damascus finished settler. Sent to found a city near the horses. Start building another settler. Luxury down to 10%, science to 90%.

Horseback riding will be finished in 5 turns. We may have a good shot at the Great Library, if we research Literature after this. The other civs still have nothing to offer: no knowledge, no gold, no communication. They are quite unaware of others living on this continent. The Vikings decided to expand to the east (NOT to the iron!!). Medina will finish an archer in one turn. We can build more of them and decide on attacking the vikings (claiming their horses and iron). We also could expand a little more and switch to a settler....

Please be easy on me, because today is a day of celebration: one year at CFC! [party]

Here's the gamesave:

The thing about the GL is that, while our research matches the AI, it would be beneficial if we're in lots of wars early on (namely, the Vikings :hammer: ).

I'll take a look at the save after the demogame turnchat, which is in 10 minutes. CG is next, and we'll go over plans there. :) Nad is on deck!

Aggie - why did you put Bahgdad up there? If you had placed it 1 to the NW, it would have had much more production. It now has 3 tiles in Damacus' borders. 1 to the NW could have used the river, and EASILY supported the food needed for the hills. Not to meantion, we didn't fill out territory around our capital first. :smoke: in my opinion. Not to mention the extra corruption... (of which some will be wasted until we get the courthouse and WLTKD)

I have recived the save :).

Loading as I speek :)

@Chieftess: I was very worried about the fact that we didn't have horses and iron. This lead me to decide to settle near the horses asap. I agree with you that I should have settled on a better place than I did. And for that I'm very ashamed. I think that the fear to make a mistake made me do just that :blush: .

But I thought that waiting with settling in that area would leave the door open for the Romans and the Vikings. And rob us from the horses. I also thought that the circle around Mecca was a save area that could wait a couple of turns (in fact, it's just about four turns later that we are continuing to settle there).

Edit: I relized I had played the wrong save >_<. I am such a Newbie when it comes to Succession Games >_<

Ahem.....CG, you just played the part I already played. I guess you have to settle with my results and start from there

Originally posted by Aggie
Ahem.....CG, you just played the part I already played. I guess you have to settle with my results and start from there

I though that was the most recent save you uploaded

Originally posted by CivGeneral


I though that was the most recent save you uploaded

It was the most recent game, but I'm afraid you didn't use it...

I am an experianced player when it comes to playing Civ3 by my self and playing the demogame.

But when it comes to a Succession Games, I becme a Newbie in the Succession Games. >_<.

It looks like I should try again Using the most recent save >_<

Originally posted by CivGeneral
But when it comes to a Succession Games, I becme a Newbie in the Succession Games. >_<.

Welcome to the club ;) . I wish you a lot of success with your archer factory in Medina :)

CivGeneral's 10 turns

I hope I get this Right, I want to leave Newbiehood in the Succession Games >_<

Turn 1, 1725BC
Medina: Archer -> Archer
Barbarian Cons Warrior vs. Arabia Vet Warrior: Result, Arabia Warrior wins
Sending Settler to Chieftess's recomended sights
Giving workers to build roads
Exploring with units

Turn 2, 1700BC
Lucky me, We get to upgrade our palace :D
Settler settles at Chieftess's recomended sights.
Najran has been founded on 1700BC :party:
Setting Najran to build a warrior
Continues to explore

Turn 3, 1675BC
Damascus goes into a disorder, I quickly micromanage the city to have an entertainer.
Continuing Exploration

Turn 4, 1650BC
Scence: Horseback riding -> Map Making
Mecca: Temple -> Spearmen
Medina: Archer -> Settler
Order restored at Damascus
Ordering worker to build a mine near Baghdad
Sends an archer to defend Najran

Turn 5, 1625BC
Checks up on Micromanagement
Moving warriors to disperce a warrior camp nead Baghdad

Turn 6, 1600BC
Moving units
Has the worker by Medina build a road in the tile it is in
Cancels mine orders by Baghdad due to a barbarian threat. Moves the worker into Baghdad

Turn 7, 1575BC
Mecca's Borders expand
Barbarian Warrior attacks Baghdad and is defeated :D, Worker continues his previous work
Sending a warrior to disperce a barbarian camp
Najran: Warrior -> Spearmen

Turn 8, 1550BC
Damascus: Settler -> Temple
Mecca: Spearmen -> Spearmen
Barbarian warrior closes in on Mecca
Sending Settler and a spearmen to one of Chieftess's suggested sites
Dispercing warrior camp and get 25g out of the camp

Turn 9, 1525BC
Medina: Settler -> Walls
Sending Settler to one of Chieftess recommended Sites worker also follows since the site contains dyes :D

Turn 10, 1500BC
Intercepting Barbarian warriors
Moves warriors

End of turn 10, Saving and uploading
Note to self, use the latest game save that Aggie posts ;)

Just a comment though... we could research Lit or take the monarchy track. The monarchy track would allow us to support a nice army, and increase our growth/economy.

EDIT: One more thing CG. :smoke: Read the previous players comments. Damascus is to be a settler factory, and we can save the temple for now while we claim land. Also, we're on Regent, which I believe the 3rd citizen is born unhappy. Be sure to micromanage before it riots. Mecca should also be switched to a settler this turn. We can let it build archers for a while, or build a granary for future settlers).

To the next player, Nad - be sure to look at the city placement map on the first page. That will tell where to place the cities.

EDIT: Medina could also build a settler. Remember to watch the growth. We have some healthy cities on this map. :D After these settlers, we can start preparing for war (and build a worker or two, and 1 or 2 settlers in the process).

Monarchy or Literature are both fine to me.

But what I like to see us do now is build up a stack of archers in Medina and attack the Vikings. Before it's too late and they have expanded with stronger units. Depending on the result against the Vikings, I would choose for either Literature (it went well) or Monarchy (we need more units...). I think that if we take out the Vikings, we have enough room te expand without a war until the UU comes into play :)

We must remind ourselves that we are surrounded by two agressive civs (Vikings and Romans)

Here's a larger dotmap I just made. And here's a suggested settling order for our next 10 towns, assuming we can reach all of these locations first, which is extremely doubtful:

1) Iron
We can get both Iron and horses here with a temple and a colony, which we can use to upgrade to our UU instead of rushing with archers.
2) Containment 2
This is to prevent eastward expansion by other civilizations. Plus it will claim horses, which we can connect to build horsemen at home, send them to "Iron," and upgrade.
3) Hills (Defense)
This is primarily to deny the Vikings easy-to-defend land.
4) Bay
Grasslands (some bonus), with wheat nearby and a lake, so we can grow quickly to size 12.
5) Dyes
Low-corruption land on a luxury.
6) Wine
More luxuries, of which we can use one and trade the other away.
7) Loggers' Paradise
A bit of forest, but once we cut those down it will be high-production, low-corruption land.
8) Nothing-of-Note
This completes our first ring, although I placed it farther out than did Chieftess.
9) Bay 2 (Dolphins)
Claims dolphins and some grasslands, including two bonus grasslands.
10) Fishery 3
Provides tons of gold after we get a harbor and an aqueduct.

EDIT: Dotmap v1.1

One thing about the tundra - little growth. That means, even if we do get all the coastal tiles (harbors), we can only use two tiles for the tundra. That's because:

For each new city size, you get 2 food to use. (using that as a benchmark). Place it on a tundra (or hills, plains), and it only gives you 1 food. (you're losing 1 food as well). Place it on the second tundra, and you gain only 1 food (you've lost another, two total). So, the strategy there might be: ICS, Infinite City Spawl. The ICS build is a checker board pattern like this:

C*C*C
*****
C*C*C


I don't like settling in the iron spot for a couple of reasons:

1. It's next to a capital - that's a potential for culture flipping right there.

2. distance - we'll have to build a road up there, and that'll take a while.

3. distance again - by the time we DO get a settler there, that site might already be settled.

Originally posted by Chieftess
One thing about the tundra - little growth. That means, even if we do get all the coastal tiles (harbors), we can only use two tiles for the tundra. That's because:After steam power, we can use four, but your point is taken :) I usually settle near the border of grassland and tundra for this purpose. We could move it S, then SW to claim more grassland, then build another town on the coast.

Originally posted by Chieftess
I don't like settling in the iron spot for a couple of reasons:

1. It's next to a capital - that's a potential for culture flipping right there.

2. distance - we'll have to build a road up there, and that'll take a while.

3. distance again - by the time we DO get a settler there, that site might already be settled. Again, I can see your point. I would still like that iron, so we could settle one east of where I have "Horses" now and build a temple. (We are religious, after all.) That would reduce problems 1 and 3, but do nothing about two. We could build a barracks there instead of connecting it, eliminating problem 2. And another benefit is making sure the Vikings don't get that iron, reducing their best defender in the early Middle Ages to 2 instead of 3.

I'm updated the above map. Be sure to reload to see the changes.

BTW, Nad said earlier in the thread that he wouldn't be here this weekend (which means all day tomorrow). So, we can either discuss, or I could go ahead with a turn, and Nad could play 2 to catch up somewhere...

I'm OK either way. Actually, if you went now, we may be able to finish another cycle in time for Nad to take his on Monday.

As for tech, I'm not sure of our exact situation, but mathematics might be a wise investment if we're close to it. The AI values it but doesn't research it very quickly. We could sell it to everyone and make a ton of money to upgrade to our UU. We may not want to switch into Monarchy just yet because it provides less unit support than does Despotism.

How about our Forbidden Palace? If we get a Great Leader in our battle against the Vikings, I think we should build it in Najran then hop the real palace west. If we don't, I suggest saving the Forbidden Palace for our westward conquest.

There's a spot near Rome that looks like a prime canidate (right by the floodplains and mountains - come the industrial era, that'll be a major spot). We should have a "2-3 ring" (atleast for a standard map). That is, a concentric ring of cities around the capital (and FP). The FP's 2nd or 3rd ring should not overlap.

Anyway, since Nad won't be here until Monday, I've decided to do this:

I'll play, and we continue until Nad arrives (that means 1 round). The 3rd round (after this one), I'll play, then Nad plays, and at the end of the round, Nad plays again. That's so everyone gets an equal amount of turns. (Granted, the other team might "lose" a player for a day too..) But, first I have to reboot.. memory's getting low.

Ok, here's my turn:

Turn 0 (1500BC)

Micromanagment - Damacus will riot next turn. :cringe: While it could use a temple, I would like to see settlers only, as it is a settler factory. (maybe after the 2nd or 3rd settler) Production changed to settler (4 turns)

Mecca can use another settler (4 turns)

Medina doesn't need walls as of yet - switched to settler (5 turns)

Turn 1 (1475BC)

Kufah founded, and worker is connecting it to the empire.
Starts warrior for quick defense. Fortifying injured warriors. Medina archer is sent to temporarily "met" the barb. Where did the barb come from? The south? MM'd Medina so it won't riot.

Turn 2 (1450BC)

Our warrior defends against one barb, but loses attacking the other. the one barb is headed for the undefended city of Kufah. The Medina warrior is sent to intercept as the archer goes back into town.
Basra founded. Queue set to warrior, then worker (we'll be needing them).
Our southern injured scout-warrior is healed. We are also the most advanced in techs! We also have 7 cities. All others have 3. That 2nd early city REALLY helped us out here!

I also decide to send the warrior in Damascus to defend Baghdad from the barbs (temporarily - if one loses, we still have this one). Damascus may starve due to the micromanagement, but the settler still gets done in two turns. I wake the worker in Baghdad and refortify. (It's a bit of an exploit...

Turn 3 (1425BC)

The barb goes on the mountain - same with the one by the south warrior (except it goes on a hill). Nothing much else to due but wait for our settlers. :D

Turn 4 (1400BC)

Our warrior in Kufah defends against the barb! Settlers in Mecca and Medina built. Mecca-settler is sent to "Logger's Paradise". I also do some micromanagement to Medina now that the road to the dye is done. (I placed the ent. on the lake. Moving it to the forest has no effect on settler production)

Just as I thought... Rome took the horse spot, so that spot is out. I will in Nothing-of-note, taking the spare warrior as a settler escort. I micromanage damascus to use both cattle. It takes 1 turn longer to grow, but the settler is done quicker. Mecca starts on a granary. Kufah also MM'd for a warrior in 4 turns.

turn 5 (1375BC)

Baghdad finishes the temple, and starts a worker. Khurasan built at "Logger's Paradise". Will start on the worker. I just noticed that our city location of "Farmer's Paradise" CAN be built!

Turn 6 (1350BC)

I really don't like building close to a capital (the "Hills (Defense) location), and the mountain area seems nice. But, I think I'll go for that "Farmer's Paradise" as a culture flipping location. The city will be on temple-build indefinately (We may have to resort to pop-rushing) With enough pop-rushing, we can have the builder's "Culture War". :) Medina also micromanaged for more production.
Korea STILL has that worker in the capital. I wonder what's going on... barbs? war?

Turn 7 (1325BC)

A barb horsemen (! That means the barb raids are starting soon!) approaches Medina. I move the warrior over, and move an archer out for a possible intercept. Najran is building another spear, which can be moved. I'm also taking a warrior out of Mecca temporarily as a diversion.

Turn 8 (1300BC)

Kufah builds warrior, starts worker. The warrior ruses worked! The horsemen went for another of our temporarily undefended cities, and our warrior came out and defeated it!
Anjar founded on "Nothing-Of-Note". Baghdad also switches to a worker. Korea now has Map Making, but he STILL has that one worker in the capital! Ok, time to renegotiate the peace deal! We get the worker, and Korea goes from cautious to polite! From the looks of it, they either have a barb problem, or they're at war. The Ottomans are apparently trying to block them in.

Turn 9 (1275BC)

More scouting, more barb killing... We see another barb horsemen north of damascus, but we have a settler moving through, and our warrior is on "standby".

Turn 10 (1250BC)

Our warrior dies fighting the horsemen, but our archer comes out to defeat it. We'll need some archer/spears (no more warriors... until we get iron) after the worker/settler is built. The southern barb camp has been spotted. The Vikings have a 4th city (We have 9 now), and it's in the tundra to the north!). Damascus MM'd to grow quicker (now that it has dyes - things get a little easier on the hapiness management :D).


Things for the next player:

The SE warriors should take that barb hut (near our territory). One should be on sentry duty on the mountain so that area is safe for future settlement. The other should patrol the southern "no barb zone"... uhhh... far SE of Bahgdad... ;) We should also start building cities (after "Farmer's Paradise" is built. We could build on "N. Desert 2", and take the Korean worker along (to poprush the temple, as it's close to Babylon)... But, I would really like the productive areas to the south be built as well... Also watch the science rate as we near 0g, and 1 turn left.

1250BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/pad1_R_Turn70_1250 bc.sav)

Originally posted by Chieftess
Just a comment though... we could research Lit or take the monarchy track. The monarchy track would allow us to support a nice army, and increase our growth/economy.

EDIT: One more thing CG. :smoke: Read the previous players comments. Damascus is to be a settler factory, and we can save the temple for now while we claim land. Also, we're on Regent, which I believe the 3rd citizen is born unhappy. Be sure to micromanage before it riots. Mecca should also be switched to a settler this turn. We can let it build archers for a while, or build a granary for future settlers).

EDIT: Medina could also build a settler. Remember to watch the growth. We have some healthy cities on this map. :D After these settlers, we can start preparing for war (and build a worker or two, and 1 or 2 settlers in the process).

Hmm, Looks like I could learn a thing or two while playing on Regent :).

Ok, ShadowDragon is up! We'll let Nad play twice in one round after this round so he can catch up on his turns.

OK, got it. If my mom ever gets off the phone, I can finish watching "Manon des Sources" (one of the best movies of all time, I must say). After that, I'll play my 10 turns.

EDIT: I'm starting right now rather than waiting, but the movie may interrupt me, so be warned :)

EDIT: The real URL is http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/pad1_R_Turn70_1250_bc.sav , by the way...

Aggie - when you get the save in later this morning (It's 12:43AM EST), let everyone talk about the save first. CG is quite eager to play, but I want the turns to go slow enough so that Nad has a chance to play. :)

Deleted my previous comments: guess sleeping is for the weak...missed a couple of turns :eek:

Hmmm, Reykjavik is built on a very strange place. I guess there's oil there.... Why would the Vikings NOT build near the iron :confused: I think we should be glad that Ragnar made this mistake. And profit from it.

Turn 0 (1250 B.C.)
Kufah Worker-->Warrior as it won't have enough population for a worker in three turns.
Basra Worker-->Temple as it needs to grab that wheat to grow quickly to size 12 and become a shield powerhouse.
Anjar Temple-->Warrior as a temple will only bring desert and jungle into range, and we don't yet need the culture.
A horseman shows up just outside of Damascus. Another horseman pops out of the barb camp.

Turn 1 (1225 B.C.)
Najran finishes spearman and starts settler. Its two spearman are moved to protect from the barb horseman.
Workers moved to Damascus to mine a few tiles.
Warrior kills the SE horseman and becomes veteran.
Settler waits a turn so as to pair up with an archer, then heads to "Farmers' Paradise."
Koreans offer territory map for territory map, but I refuse

Turn 2 (1200 B.C.)
A spearman defeats the northern horseman.
Damascus settler goes to "Iron" w/spearman.

Turns 3 & 4 (1175/1150 B.C.) (lost track)
Anjar finishes warrior, starts worker. (Warrior goes to Baghdad.)
Kufah finishes warrior, starts worker. (Warrior goes to Najran.)
Khurasan finishes warrior, starts worker. (Warrior fortifies.)
Our northern warrior attacks a horseman and wins.
Micromanaging science saves us 15 (!) gold.
Mathematics at 100%.

Turn 5 (1125 B.C.)
Horseman attacks our spearman and loses.
Basra finishes worker, starts worker.
Medina finishes settler (headed to "N. Desert 2"), starts settler.

Turn 6 (1100 B.C.)
Two horseman are just outside of Baghdad! :O
Fustat founded at Farmers' Paradise, starts temple.
Two warriors raid two barbarian encampments, netting us 50 gold.
Khurasan finishes worker, starts warrior.
The two horseman head to Fustat.

Turn 7 (1075 B.C.)
Our archer defeats the first horseman without losing one HP.
The other horseman heads back toward Baghdad. A bit confused, eh?

Turn 8 (1050 B.C.)
Anjar finishes worker, starts warrior.
Damascus finishes settler ("Distant Floodplains"), starts settler.
Kufah finishes worker, starts warrior.
Medina expands. Spices not quite in range.

Turn 9 (1025 B.C.)
Korean worker heads toward Fustat to pop-rush a temple.
Aden built at "Iron," starts temple.

Turn 10 (1000 B.C.)
Our warrior defeats a horseman, but is redlined in the process.

Notes to next player:
- Send the Korean worker to join Fustat, then join city and pop-rush a temple ASAP.
- Settle the desert right where the settler and archer are standing. ("N. Desert 2")
- Send the western settler to "Distant Floodplains."
- Make sure every turn that Damascus doesn't riot. Connect the incense if you have to.
- Micromanage science next turn.
- Trade away math to everyone, the wealthiest first and the poorest last.

Interesting turn of events SD! I wonder if we will be able to get the horses in Fustat. I agree with pop rushing the temple there. But the worker will arrive there at the moment the city grows to two. And isn't it a risk to have a foreign citizen in a border town?

I'm ready to play, but await your comments. I'll be back 19.00 h CET / 13.00 h EST.

Question: why should I settle in the desert :confused:

EDIT: I very much like to build up a stack of archers to defeat the Vikings. I know that the archers are a dead-end unit (only upgrading to Guerilla. But I feel that the bonus, having half of the contient to ourselves, pays for that.

I also think we need to defend ourselves a bit against the Romans, since we are trying to culture-flip their town to us.

It will have tiles on grasslands, I think. Also, when the industrial era hits, rails and irragation will make it more fertile. Hey, those two cities have it in their bedouin(sp?)-blood I guess... :D (besides, it fits the build pattern... Our "first ring cities" are almost complete. Now, we're working on our 2nd - and third. Being expansionist really helps when you get that early settler - better yet, town!).

The one thing about mathemathics... (I hope you didn't sell it to Scandanavia) the AI knows how to use artillery-type units better... and how much did you sell them for? Other than that, looks like things are "settling in". ;)

Some tips for micromanaging:

Damascas can be micromanaged for a settler in 3 (wheat on forest or mined grassland)

Najran can have 2 worked grassland (1 SE of the hill, and one NE of the lake) placed on a rivered-forest, and roaded forest. The settler will be done MUCH quicker.

Medina - watch for rioting in two turns!

Mecca and put the worked lake onto a roaded forest (granary is completed quicker). Then build a settler after that. (2 if you can, otherwise, a spear should be next)

The key to expanding aggressively is to make sure your granaries and settler get out as quick as possible. Micromanaging should really begin in full when the city is at size two. Pretend you're on deity mode and have to get those settlers out before the city riots.

Chieftess, I'm only going to play at 19 h CET. So feel free to reply to my questions and give pointers. I will try to sell mathematics to the rich/advanced civs. I already noticed that Korea, Rome and the Vikings are those civs. I'm also reluctant to give Rome Mathematics... But if we don't, Korea will. So what's the point to exclude Rome and the Vikings and let Korea benefit?

Ok, I just edited my post. Also, we still have math - SD, then what did you trade? :confused: Personally, math is a tech I DON'T want to trade in PTW. BTW, no one has mathematics, but... selling lit isn't a good idea either, it equals the Great Library. However, the pyramids is a wonder we should look into. It gives free granaries (and we have over 7 cities. 7 granaries = approx. the cost of the pyramids) Rome is building the pyramids, but I can't tell how far they are. Once our settlers are done, we could start in Damascus, which looks to have tons of production. (we should build a temple first, though, and we need libraries soon).

Also, be sure to watch the tech rate next turn. We can take the monarchy track (map making is 9 turns away at this rate though) if we're going to be in a lot of wars. Once we dislodge that barb hut (apparently, the Vikings were avoiding it!? hmm...), we can get a road ASAP to that iron, and build lots of warriors before hand for a quick upgrade.

The two desert sites look to be next (one's on the edge, so with normal grasslands, it can produce 1 or 2 workers...). Also, don't forget about the SE. We're starting to hem in those Vikings! :D

BTW, the Vikings have mapmaking and Code of Laws. Two techs we can sue for on future conquest... Korea, too has those techs, as does Rome. I have a also have a gut feeling that we're on a continent with islands to the east and southeast... We'll also need to start thinking about where we want our FP. There's a mountian full of gems, and that tile 1 NW of the wheat (by what I'm guessing should be Rome) looks to be the PRIME target). Those floodplains, (just on irragation ALONE - without despotism/communism - can support 7 mountains and 1 hill before the city goes on "food reserve" - a.k.a., the "last 2 food"). That will be a MAJOR powerhouse for the industrial era, not to mention a source of income! With rails, it supports 10.5 mountains (10 mountains, 1 hill). And that's not counting the few tiles we can't see yet. (one of which is mountians - its peaking paste the fog - and another seems to be plains or a hill).

So, our FP should be somewhere near that lake. (BTW, we could trade maps equally... as the Vikings seem known). Because the Vikings are known, we can't simply raze their cities (rep hit), but we can "relocate" them... size them down to size 1, and what a few growth cycles for only our citizens to appear. Build a settler, then abandon when the settler is in place.

Rome should be our next target, and we should sincerly hope they do not have iron. No iron = no legions.

Originally posted by Chieftess
Ok, here's my turn:

Turn 0 (1500BC)

Micromanagment - Damacus will riot next turn. :cringe:


:confused:

Please don't tell me that meant hiring a specialist. I like to see these teams continue to move up in skill level, but specialist kill your growth and never let you get to deity level.

One of the human advantages in LUXURY TAX - use it to keep move citizens productive. The move food you build up in the settler source - the quick you can produce the next one.

Hey, we're only regents. ;)

The thing is, to make them happy, it raises the research by 1 turn.. (3 instead of 2...), but yes... it would get the settler out one turn quicker. (I know.. in the higher levels, it's best to buy techs and keep science at 0%)...


-------------------

@our team - we also have 13 warriors (mostly regulars, though) that are our future swords. Once our settler production winds down, we can start the spear/barracks production. We'll only need a central barracks for a quick upgrade, then we can have barracks at our productive centers. I would really like to have this side of the continent conquered by the middle ages. Then send our knights (Ansar Warriors) into Rome. Next would probably be Korea (unless we get a GL or two to rush the FP - we might want to use the first for an army). Greece should be last, as they have hoplites.

Also, here's the radius of our palace (optimal production) and the FP. The X (made a circle for easier viewing) is the approx. location of that production city, assuming we probably use Rome as the FP site. Being this is a regent game, the modern era will come much quicker, and it's location on the river means we can get Hoover. :D Production will be MASSIVE in that city - not to mention the gems!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/2radii.jpg

Note, the circles are an approximation (my Adobe skills aren't the best, and I copied it to PSP3 for the circle and line...), and you could probably extend the circles a bit until they touch.

BTW, when I said:

and take the Korean worker along (to poprush the temple, as it's close to Babylon)...

I meant a future temple at one of the desert sites (about 4 tiles SW of the Viking capital I think - the Desert 2 site)... not the one by Rome.

I have no idea why I said babylon... maybe I had something in the back of my head about the Babylonian culture in the Civ3 Demogame... :)

I'm back earlier than I thought. Will start now. Thanks for the pointers Chieftess. I'm going for Pyramids and if that fails switch to Great Library.

I will settle on the sites suggested by ShadowDragon, but the Korean worker goes elsewhere.

Remember, build it after we have enough cities (and have pinned the Vikings in)... I'd like a few more rounds of settlers first.

EDIT: *spoilers* removed

On the spices? Which one? That'll pinch the cities there a bit... (if it's the one I think you're talking about...) Anyway, if that warrior plans to stay (and it seems to be a new AI tatic in PTW... resource denial! :eek: Good one Soren!) Let that be a lesson for the next resource(s) we find. Defend with a unit! :D

First, I think we need a "War Road" (I would need to see the save to see how our infrastructure is now). That is, from our major production cities, to the Viking heartland (err... whereever that is... ;)). We'll also need more archers to break through the spears. We should lay out a battle plan, and this is mine: (from what I've read)

1 - Switch to archers.
2 - Have all workers start building a road near the Vikings.
3 - Move all warriors to a nearby town that has a barracks
4 - Save up on cash (if this means 0% research, then so be it. We'll get the techs for peace, back out, declare war and attack again).
5 - One the warrior is dislodged, have all workers (and a few spears) go on the iron tile to road it (and build a fort - if we happen to get construction). I have a sneaking feeling that the AI will try to knock out your resource in PTW.

As for the vote...

(Warning: Demogame humor ahead!)

"This is a council vote. Please vote yes/no/abstain. The poll will remain open for 48 hours or until a quorum is met." :p)

CivGeneral would get it...

anyway, I say no, not just yet.


On a site note: One thing to remember when placing cities is: Look at where the city radii are. If you build to far, you'll leave a gap that will never be used. Sometimes, very valuable gaps can be wasted. (take a look at the Civ3 demogame map - there's a spice and a gold mountain that will never be used...)

Another thing to think about is that the Vikings could have multiple units ready to descend on that iron city. So, declaring war might not be a good idea just yet...

Guys, if you don't micromanage Damascus (let it work the food tiles first), it will stabilize at a settler every 4 turns. Just thought you ought to know :)

I think you ought to veto the Pyramids. In 40 turns, we could have 10 settlers from Damascus. If you insist on building them, Medina's probably our best town if it has a decent population. The city at "Bay" (I forget its real name) is a good alternate location.

Urge Scandinavia to leave? Tough choice. I vote NO; we don't need the iron quite yet. If we're connecting Aden to our whole empire, it can wait until that connection is there. If we're connecting Aden to the horses and the iron, it can wait until we have a road to the horses.

Just looking in..
Please hold while i curse the "Q" word...
Quorum!!!!!!!!!!!!!
evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was also going to say that about the pyramids but forgot to mention it. That one city (it'll take a while to memorize the new PTW city names...) is a settler factory. It might be better in the capital after it builds a few settlers.

BTW, here's a note on the border tundra cities (future tundra). A forested tundra is sort of like a mined hill... except rails don't affect it.

Edited out - Aggie is retiring due to a lot of stress right now. The save will be replayed (which is probably rare in SGs).

I know that I'm not the best CIV player in the world. That's why I thought it would be best to join a regent game. A level at which a mistake can be forgiven. I beat monarch in single player games and obviously have a lot to learn, because I can't beat emperor.

I don't know whether it's my state of mind right now or the different expectations I had of this SG, but I think it's best for me to quit, as I seem to have done enough damage already. Feel free to replay my ten turns....

That's ok.. I know you've had a lot going on. I think this is an exception where we can replay those ten turns. Hope you come back when your mom is feeling better!

Announcement: When you upload a file, use the file upload at the bottom of the thread. Just remember to put http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/filename.jpg in the fields. It makes it easier if someone wants to quote the map.

It should look like this:

[ IMG]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/filename.jpg

(just remember to close the space. It's there so the tags don't trigger

OK, sure, will do! Actually, I'll update it with the new map from my last turn, then I'll do :P.

And just so everyone's clear about our settler factory in Damascus, here are the instructions to get a settler every 4 turns:
- ALWAYS work the two irrigated tiles in the city boundaries.
- NEVER work a tile that gives less than 2 food.
- Start a settler when there is four population and half-way to the next (five food, fifteen if you count what's in the granary). After that, start a settler each time one is finished.

BTW, viewing the Top 5 in the game, France and Carthage are the 2 other civs. Both are indurstious, and I think both are commercial too. So, don't be surprised if they know each other and are caught up in techs... (but, that might be a ways off)

Ok, everyone.. since we had a little chaos. I want everyone to wait until I clear things up a bit...

EDIT: n/a

Some excerpts:

Damascus is to be a settler factory, and we can save the temple for now while we claim land. Also, we're on Regent, which I believe the 3rd citizen is born unhappy. Be sure to micromanage before it riots.



ShadowDragon's Plan of Attack1) Iron
We can get both Iron and horses here with a temple and a colony, which we can use to upgrade to our UU instead of rushing with archers.
2) Containment 2
This is to prevent eastward expansion by other civilizations. Plus it will claim horses, which we can connect to build horsemen at home, send them to "Iron," and upgrade.
3) Hills (Defense)
This is primarily to deny the Vikings easy-to-defend land.
4) Bay
Grasslands (some bonus), with wheat nearby and a lake, so we can grow quickly to size 12.
5) Dyes
Low-corruption land on a luxury.
6) Wine
More luxuries, of which we can use one and trade the other away.
7) Loggers' Paradise
A bit of forest, but once we cut those down it will be high-production, low-corruption land.
8) Nothing-of-Note
This completes our first ring, although I placed it farther out than did Chieftess.
9) Bay 2 (Dolphins)
Claims dolphins and some grasslands, including two bonus grasslands.
10) Fishery 3
Provides tons of gold after we get a harbor and an aqueduct.


Settle in the -->clear<-- spots. That way, there's no overlapping of tiles, and it won't cripple cities where it counts.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/arabia2.jpg

Build pattern
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/2radii.jpg


More of my instructions for the next player
Things for the next player:

The SE warriors should take that barb hut (near our territory). One should be on sentry duty on the mountain so that area is safe for future settlement. The other should patrol the southern "no barb zone"... uhhh... far SE of Bahgdad... We should also start building cities (after "Farmer's Paradise" is built. We could build on -->"N. Desert 2"<--, and take the Korean worker along (to poprush the temple, as it's close to Scandanavia)... But, I would really like the productive areas to the south be built as well... Also watch the science rate as we near 0g, and 1 turn left.


[quote]ShadowDragon's Instructions to the next player[b]
Notes to next player:
- Send the Korean worker to join Fustat, then join city and pop-rush a temple ASAP.
- Settle the desert right where the settler and archer are standing. ("N. Desert 2")
- Send the western settler to "Distant Floodplains."
- Make sure every turn that Damascus doesn't riot. Connect the incense if you have to.
- Micromanage science next turn.
- Trade away math to everyone, the wealthiest first and the poorest last.



Also of note:

What our workers should be doing now

- Hooking up roads to other cities, AND future cities. We have 1 lux already (we don't need any more of the same type). Our cities are safe up until size 4. This also means starting to build north.
- Mining, then roading BONUS grassland within the city radii.
- Irragating wheat and irragate or mine cattle.
- Build roads to resources.

What our workers SHOULDN'T be doing

- They SHOULDN'T be mining/irragating desert at this stage, especially when the city (take Anjar for example), has 2 bonus grasslands and a forest game. More than enough for settler and unit production early on.

- We have enough bonus grasslands right now. They should NOT be mining normal grassland just yet.

- Jungles are tough right now, and our workers aren't industrious. They should NOT waste 24 turns clearing and 8 turns or so roading it.

----------------------------

Remember, we haven't left our expansion mode yet, and it shouldn't be until the 2nd or 3rd player after CG before we start to build up. Also, be sure to watch where you're moving your units. In lower levels, it's ok to make mistakes, but here, it gets a little tougher.

Another thing about attachments. Don't use the File Attach in the reply to message. It makes it harder to extract the file for further analysis. (i.e., posting it onto another post). Instead, use the File Upload at the bottom of the page. It helps a lot. :)

Also, at the end of your posts, be sure to leave instructions for the next player. When the next player starts (and I've said it many times ;)), Read the previous player's notes and instructions! Also, read the previous posts, it will make things MUCH clearer and smoother.

:hammer: :smoke: ShadowDragon, didn't you see me say "Wait!"? :) :smoke: :hammer:


Another thing, when you place your cities in relation to the map, be sure to use a guide so you don't get confused. IE, N. Desert 1 is 3 N, and 1 NW of Damascus. Make sure the settler is there before you settle, and always, ALWAYS double, and triple check.

OK, edited my last post. I have new dotmaps here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/arabia1.jpg) and here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/arabia-east.jpg)

I'll edit this out once you confirm :)

ShadowDragon - I think the Spices GoldHill and The Ranch could all be shifted 1 to the NE.

Here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/arabia-east2.jpg)'s what that does. The red X is a wasted tile, but fortunately it's only a desert.

It does free up tiles for Spices, though. I really don't mind wasting a desert tile, since it doesn't do anything (unless we want a 1-tile-city-with-a-specilist later on :)). We can affectionately call it "The Sandbox". But, don't put it there just yet... (put an X in it for now...)

CivGeneral's 10 Turns
The Grand Admiral's Exam

After a humiliating mistake, Chieftess has let me redo my save. I hope that I do not recive any more :smoke:s since my Demogame carrier totaly depends on it.

For all turns, I have all of the workers build roads to future city sites and also current unconnected cities. I ahve also Trippled and quaddripled check the Micromanagement. I also patroled the areas outside our territories for Barbarians

Turn 1, 975BC
Baghdad: Worker -> worker
Disperced the Barbarian tribe by the Desert tile that is 1 tile NW of Damascus and 5 tiles NE and settled Yamama on the same tile
Micromanaged Damascus to prevent it from rioting.
Have the Warriors patrol the area far south of Baghdad for any Barbarian threat
Had the settler by Baghdad move to the distant floodplain which is located 8 tiles NW from and 1 tile NE from Baghdad
Lowered the Science rate, luckly we can still get Mathmadics in 1 turn at 70%

Turn 2, 950BC
The romans wanted to talk with us.
Trade deal with the romans:

We want We give
Territory map Territory map
1 gold

The trade was susessful
Science: Mathmatics -> Map Making
Warriors on the coast, patrols for Barbarians

Turn 3, 925BC
Basra: Worker -> Worker
Damascus: Settler -> Settler
Kufah: Warrior -> Warrior
Sending the Settler from Damascus to the Desert tile that is 4 tiles NW and 3 tiles NE from Damascus

Turn 4, 900BC
Mecca: Granary -> Settler
Khurasan: Warrior -> Warrior
Sending newly built warriors to patrol against the barbarians

Turn 5, 875BC
The Korean Worker has reached to Fustat, giving him orders to join the city. Since there are not enough citizens to pop-rush the temple, I would have to wait untill it grows to a size 3 level
At this time, I went and checked to see if any AI civs has any preq for Mathmatics inorder for the Trading of Math to be sucsessfull
So far none of the civs has the preq for mathmatics at this time

Turn 6, 850BC
The Vikings wants to talk with us.
Trade deal with the vikings:

We want We Give
Philosophy Literature
I kindly refused his offer and sent him on his way
Noticed that Fustat has teached pop 3, time to pop rush the temple

Turn 7, 825BC
Khurasan: Warrior -> Warrior
Sent the built warrior to patrol the desert region NE of Medina
The City of Muscat has been founded in the Desert tile that is 4 tiles NW and 3 tiles NE from Damascus
The City of Mansura has been founded in the floodplain which is located 8 tiles NW and 1 tile NE of Baghdad
Sent a warrior from Kufah to defend Medina

Turn 8, 800BC
Kufah: Warrior -> Warrior
Anjar: Warrior -> Warrior
Damascus: Settler -> Settler
Narjran: Settler -> Spearmen
Sent the Settler from Damascus to the Grassland that is located 2 tiles SW and 3 tiles SE
Sent the Settler from Narjran to the Grasslands that is located 1 tile SW and 4 Tiles SE

Turn 9, 775BC
Fustat: Temple -> Spearmen
The Ottomans are building the Oracle
Continued giving orders to the workers
Continued patroling for Barbarians

Turn 10, 750BC
Baghdad: Worker -> Worker
Fustat's borders are expanding

End of turn 10.

Instructions for the next player
-Use one warrior that is garrisoned in Damascus and Medina to escourt the setter once it is finished
-Two settlers are heading to the Grassland that is located 2 tiles SW and 3 tiles SE (Damascus is the start point), and to the Grasslands that is located 1 tile SW and 4 Tiles SE (Narjran is the start point)
-Keep tabs on the Micromanagement
-Follow Shadowdragon's instructions for Damascus to optimize the settler production

Here is the save
PAD1 SG, 750BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/pad1_r_turn90_750bc.zip)

Well, there's 2 things...
1 - never give away your territory maps (the AI likes to use it to declare war on you). Plus, never accept the "first offer", always wager it.

2 - The Korean worker was NEVER instructed to go to Fustat. Never. It was instructed to go to the DESERT TOWN BY SCANDANAVIA. Does Neapolis look Scandanavian to you? :hammer::smoke::smoke:

Fustat has some growth/shields. Yamama does not. Very bad move... and Yamana is building a warrior. It should have been a rushed temple.

There's 2 workers building !? 2 roads in the desert by Yamana!? It only needs one going into the city, and one coming out of the north. We aren't industrious, so this is a waste. Medina also doesn't need an entertainer. Looks like the citizens of Yamama will still have to wander the desert. :)


Stuck_As_a_Mac is up next, but wait until ShadowDragon posts the new cartographic map. ;) (Gee, it's a mini-Civ3 Demogame in here. :p)

Some other things..

Muscat could build another worker, but it will need a temple. We're nearing the end of our expansion to the north and south. We need a road to that iron (also, fortify a unit on it, so we can pillage/road it as needed). We'll also need barracks (and extra cash flow to upgrade our warriors - that means cutting back on research). We can go for the spices last when we start conquering the Vikings.

Ok, why pillage our own iron? Because there's only 1 iron in our immediate area, and we'll only need it when we want it. That is, after we upgrade, if we're doing well against the Vikings (say they're down to a city), we can pillage the iron so that it doesn't vanish. Then, when we get pikes (and Ansar Warriors), we can road it again.

2 - The Korean worker was NEVER instructed to go to Fustat. Never. It was instructed to go to the DESERT TOWN BY SCANDANAVIA.Actually, I did :smoke:

Another thing about trading away your map: Make sure you trade it to everyone on the same turn. If you trade it to only one civ, that civ will turn around and sell it to everyone else. Then you've only made profit from one trade. On the other hand, if you trade it to everyone on the same turn, you get five times the profit (in this case). I had my eye on Rome's territory map, but obtaining it like this is :smoke:

But, I said to the other place... :smoke:

ShadowDragon's Instructions to the next player
Notes to next player:
- Send the Korean worker to join Fustat, then join city and pop-rush a temple ASAP.

I thought ShadowDragon said that he wants the next player to sent the Korean Worker to Fustat and have it join the city for a pop-rust :confused:

Also I must break the habit of trading maps to one Civ :cringe:.

CivGeneral's Opps Score card
Smoke and a Pancake: :smoke:X3

I thought ShadowDragon said...Rub it in, why don't you? :lol:

Originally posted by Chieftess
2 - The Korean worker was NEVER instructed to go to Fustat. Never. It was instructed to go to the DESERT TOWN BY SCANDANAVIA. Does Neapolis look Scandanavian to you? :hammer::smoke::smoke:

This might have been a GOOD move from me to decide to go to the desert town :cool:

Nad, if you see this in time, you can play ahead of Stuck. He has school in a few hours...

wow, this game has motored while I've been away. Looks good and I look forward to my 20 turns this round...

been reading through thread, since I've not played yet I don't think I'm in any position to vote on whether or not we crush vikings...if we do, its important we have very large military so we can crush in 1 rather than attacking in dribs and drabs; overwhelming force is the best way to fight in civ3.

Chieftess, I agree with playing cautiously but I don't think we need to be paranoid!!! Sure there's a flip risk in building cities close to opposition capitals, but it's small, especially as we are religious and our culture should wipe the floor with anyone else's pretty soon; and the benefits of the extra city, expecially with iron, far outweigh flip risk, so I'm glad we secured that iron. Similarly, disconnecting iron is over-cautious - disappearance ratio is pretty small, and if we do disconnect it, we have to build warriors if we want military! I say leave it be, if it disappears, that's life and a very unlucky RNG result, we can always take military route and secure another source; the hassle of disconnecting it is far worse

Originally posted by Chieftess
Nad, if you see this in time, you can play ahead of Stuck. He has school in a few hours...


Hey, I've seen it but I'm at work :sad: will get home at 18.00 GMT, so will play then if Stuck hasn't, otherwise I'll wait my turn

Yeah, that's 1:00pm my time (and Stuck's), so Stuck should still be in school.

[DG humor]
Via carrier Pigeon:
CT! Help me! Ive been captured by Boris7 and the Indians have got me! theyre forcing me to learn mundane facts i have no use for! you'll haveto go on without me for now! play... the.... 10... turns.....
See you at the Bluff!
SaaM
[/end DG Humor]
Im in school right now and im on a library machine. whoevers next, play the save. ill go on after them.

and i got it (the game, not the plague)

I will be playing very carefully so expect the save in a few hours time...

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
[DG humor]
Via carrier Pigeon:
CT! Help me! Ive been captured by Boris7 and the Indians have got me! theyre forcing me to learn mundane facts i have no use for! you'll haveto go on without me for now! play... the.... 10... turns.....
See you at the Bluff!
SaaM
[/end DG Humor]


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one Stuck :). I can see that the DG is infecting the SG ;).

ok guys, i played 10, figuring I could play my other 10 in my proper place in the round. Since we're still in the crucial early rounds of the game, and since we're still learning each other's styles, I'll provide a fairly detailed report for the team to criticize.

Inherited turn

first of all, looking at city placement, I note a few things; why have we setlled so aggressively near Neapolis? Was it to pinch the horses? We can get away with this at regent, but on higher levels that would be asking for trouble, an open invite for the Romans to sneak attack us. Secondly, I feel our core cities are way too close together, this is an advantage for now, but we'll be at a serious disdvantage if the game lasts past the early industrial age. Thirdly, individual cities are poorly placed, eg both Aden and Baghdad are one square from a river for no noticeable gain; and fourthly, we have not grabbed the spices yet (this is my priority for now). From the military point of view, I agree with the aggressive sentiment expressed earlier, the Vikings must die, and soon, before invention.

City survey - MM Mecca to get the most of the land - Mecca does not have enough improved tiles for my liking, this must be rectified ASAP; for some reason there is an entertainer in Medina (?!) - completely unneccessary; Damascus is looking awesome for settler production, although I do not understand why someone has mined a plains tile there, especially as this is next to an unimproved cattle square! And Basra - why, oh why, is it building a worker?!? Its shield box is full but it can't complete because its size 1! I do hope this has not been the case for too long, switched immediately to spear. Other switches: Khrasan to temple, Anjar to spear, Fustat to worker and Muscat to temple.

Diplomacy - we have no embassies with anyone yet, so I set one with the Romans straightaway (29 gold), Rome is building Pyramids with an uninspiring 120 turns to completion. Sheesh

The Vikings have literature, so there is no sense in hoarding that now, similarly I'm set to trade WMs (especially as we have already traded our TM away, and with all the AIs having Map-Making, soon they'll have our WM by trading TMs with each other). So my trades are:

Lit + WM to Rome for CofL, WM and 23g
WM to Greece for WM+ 30g
WM to Korea for WM+ 25g
WM to Ottomans for WM+ 1g (all they have), WM to everyone again for 1g.

use extra cash to build embassy with Vikings, they have 3 spears and are training an archer in Trondheim. Hmmmm. With Trondheim at size 3, they could as well be training a settler, especially with the amount of space they have, so why an archer? My suspicions rise, and I think we can expect some aggression from there in the not too distant future.

embassy with Korea for 35g, and with Greece for 44g; everyone is now polite, and we only lack embassy with Ottomans

science to Republic, evens (70%) 27 turns.

We are ready to rock, so i hit enter

IT - barb horse appears in north, near Aden
Yamama - warrior built, start temple

Turn 1, 730BC - Yamama warrior fortifies, archer begins to head north to help take on the barbs, miscellaneous troop and worker moves (henceforth, misc move). Guys, please don't leave units on "go to", especially settlers, even if you mention it in your post (as I think the last player did, to be fair); it makes it difficult for the succeeding player to locate them, and is very dangerous, especially as the settler may end its move next to a barb, and since auto-moves happen at the end of a turn, this would make it potentially impossible to defend a settler if it did end next to a barb.

IT - 2 more barb horses appear in north - yikes; Koreans build Cheju and solidify our western common border

Turn 2, 710BC - misc move and MM

IT - barb horses and galleys look menacing but do no actual damage
Mecca trains settler, starts spear, Medina likewise, Damascus from settler to settler, Kufah completes warrior, starts temple

Turn 3, 690BC - misc move, Bukhara and Aleppo founded on our southern coast, both start temples to get our culture going. Our archer attacks a barb horse, wins but is down to 2HP and faces the ungleeful prospect of facing 2 more barb horses in the interturn; RIP our archer, I think :(

IT - our archer staves off both the barb horses and is promoted to elite! :ninja: Basra completes spear, starts temple

Turn 4, 670 BC - jack to report, except diplomacy - Korea (only) has Polytheism, and is not interested in any sort of trade. I contemplate renogotiating peace, a la our illustrious leader, Chieftess. However, I am nowhere near as ruthless as the great chieftess, and do not commit such a dastardly act (if the next player decides otherwise, go ahead - at the end of my turn, Korea still had a monoploy on Polytheism)

IT - Najran trains spear, starts temple, Anjar completes spear, starts settler

Turn 5, 650 BC - nada

IT - nada

Turn 6, 630 BC - warrior clears barb camp in north, netting 25g. I build an embassy with the Ottomans, completing the set.

IT - baaaaad news. This is where it could get tricky - a Viking stack of 2 archers and 2 warriors emerges suddenly from the Trondheim fog, and moves towards Aden - I did kinda anticipate this. The only time the AI ever stacks units like this is when its on course for war, or planning a sneak attack - this is not a border patrol or an exploration stack. Aden has 1 spear and our wounded elite archer there. Its time to reassess.

Mecca completes spear, starts settler.

Turn 7, 610 BC - Shiraz founded near spices in east, a barb horse is now revealed, set to spear. Luckily I had plenty of military patrolling our border in the east, and I now begin to mobilize them into position. Several builds are switched to prepare for the onslaught: Najran changes to archer, Aden to spear, Yamama to spear, Muscat and Mansura whip their temples.

In a move that some would describe as risky, but others as visionary, I move our spear in Aden onto the iron mountain. Aden is now defended by a 1HP archer, but the Vikings cannot reach it this round; either they can attack our mountain spear (defence 4) or they have to move round the mountain, onto flat lands, to attack Sden, buying me 1 extra turn, in which time the new spear in Aden will be complete, and I'll have more reinforcements on the way. All-in-all, I think this is a great strategic move (without wishing to sound too smug, of course ;) )

IT - the Viking stack turns south - the spear did the trick, preventing them from occupying the mountain. 2 barb horses appear in east, threatening Shiraz

Damscus finishes settler, starts another, Muscat goes from temple to spear, as does Mansura, the Carthiginians build the pyramids, the Romans cascade to the Great Library.

Turn 8, 590 BC - much troop movement, Nerw founded and begins temple

IT - the Viking stack moves back into Trondheim's borders! Now I know that I did not misinterpret their action, that stack was definitely meant to sneak attack Aden until I prevented them from so doing; so I shall continue to be wary and expect the attack later.

Medina completes spear, starts settler, Fustat trains worker and starts spear, Aden completes spear and starts another

Turn 9, 570BC - Najran switched back to temple; misc move and MM

IT - the Vikings kill 2 barb horses near Trondheim - perhaps that is why their units withdrew, to fight the barb attack - if so, thank you very much barbarians, you've finally become a help rather than a nuisance!!!

Baghdad trains worker, starts spear, Khurasan completes temple, starts spear

Turn 10, 550 BC - misc move, Fustat and Aden whip spears

Notes to the next player - I have left lots of military units on our eastern border - I am convinced the Viking attack has been delayed rather than cancelled; do not put all your eggs in one basket and congregate the eastern troops around any particular city, instaed, keep them spread along the eastern border so they can respond to danger wherever it arises; try to occupy the high ground as much as possible, and try to keep the troops on roads if possible.

I concentrated on spears, settlers and temples in my 10; keep working on these, especially temples. I am a firm believer that you should always magnify your trait strengths, not use them as compensating factors; I always groan inwardly when people say industrious is great cos it means you don't need as many workers. :wallbash: true, if your terrain is perfected and all you're doing is cleaning up pollution in the late game, but for the rest of the game, industrious civs should build MORE workers, since each one they have offers greater value in being able to build improvements quicker. We as religious should similarly build as many temples ASAP, magnify our religious discount, and watch our culture dwarf the rest of the world's combined culture; we can then forget worrying about culture flips and keep every city we take. It also means that our territory will grow quicker as borders expand. Even the most corrupt city can build a temple in 11 turns for us, as long as it has one 2 food square (10 shields, then a pop-rush). So build those temples, comrades!!!

Next turn, the warrior/settler pair near Reykjavik should build a city where they stand, the spear/settler pair near Muscat should build a city on the forest exactly 4 squares north of Muscat. Apart from that, we're in great shape, at least twice the size of our rivals, so let's keep this going.

The file should upload to this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1550BC.sav

@Nad's preturn analysis - Yes, I agree and disagree. :)

1 - Horse City. Yes, I think that was a bit agressive, and it's not something I would normally do, especially with a city that will have mounds of production.

2 - Tight build. I used to be a skeptic on this one. Just look at the first Civ 3 Demogame. :) (Grey Fox's term 1 presidential thread). But, We won't have size 13+ cities until medicine, and we're a good era and a half away from that. It also allows for less corruption (vital in early wars). In antiquity, units are cheaper, and you only need 10 shields to produce units every 2-5 turns. More cities = more units. Also, look at the desert and jungle. It would have been a pain for our workers to spend 24 turns clearing jungle, and trying to irragate the desert. Lots of wasted work.

Hmm, I have a sneaking suspiscion that Carthage is on a large continent. Why? I just played the Trader's Delight scenario (or whatever it's called - 9x9 islands), and not ONE AI built the pyramids. Not 1. I wonder if they compare the cost of all granaries to a pyramid. That could mean they have room for (or already have) 7+ cities.

Also, it looks like it's the 2nd time the barbs have helped us.

1st - a barb camp to prevent the Vikings from settling west.
2nd - to stall a possible invasion

BTW, Stuck, remember to look at the city plan that ShadowDragon posted. It shows where to build your cities. Look at it carefully, and double/triple check.

Just a notice: Since there's 2 Pad1 teams, put an _R_, or b in the filename, like PAD1_R_1550BC.sav, or PAD1b_1550.sav. That's so if the warlord team makes the same filename, they won't accidently download ours. It prevents spoilers. Oh, and also put an underscore between the 1 and the year. :)

Also, how come you settled in a different spot than ShadowDragon's map? (the spices) Now there looks like there's going to be some gaps between those cities.. :cringe: :smoke: IMHO.

the link is fine, CT, its just that the server is very slow and has only just completed uploading (I posted the link before the save had uploaded). Also, here's a screenshot of our eastern front:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1EFront.jpg

Edit: All good points, CT, but no weed taken (I only do that at weekends). By building Shiraz where it is we can build another city on south coast. We should build one city 4 squares south / 1 square east from Medina, and then another city directly south of Shiraz - this makes best use of tiles IMO. Dotmaps are there as guides, but always need modification depending on circumstances. I built the cities in my turn where I thought they would work best, and which also fits in with future city strategy; it seems clear we are going for quantity rather than quality in terms of cities, and the location of the cities I built conforms to this.

By the way, this is the 550BC save, not the 1550 BC save. Game is getting excited now, and this really is an excellent rotation we have, whereby we're almost at the end of the 2nd round in 1 week of play!!!

besides, this way the spice city is next to a river, which it would not be on the original dotmap (100 shields saved already, as well as commerce bonus)

CivGeneral hands Nad a Smoke and a Pancake

Hmm, what to do with the gap ;)

I also made a city layout of our "Industrial Sites". I call it Industrial, since it's one of the only times I might use OCP. It's also OCP because I want to utilize the mountains to their fullest by the time the industrial era hits. I have a feeling that Carthage may be on a large continent by themselves (and France might be on a smaller one). On maps like these, there's usually a continent east or SE, then a small island to the north, or there could be a series of them. Anyway, I have 3 possible sites for our FP. I would REALLY like to have FP#2 as an unobstructed shield factory. Being that it's all flood plains (desert w/river) and mountain, now amount of global warming is ever going to bring that city to its' demise. It's a POWERFUL location.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PAD1_FP_Sites.jpg

Looks like a good plan, When would it be good to do a palace-prebuild for the Forbiden palace. Or should we save the palace-prebuild for our Major wonders :)

Also, on FB#3, is on a mountan, quite immposible to settle on a mountan ;).

opps! :wallbash:

Turn One: Arden builds spear, starts work on temple. Furstat builds spear, starts on another. Move settler warrior to Horse site, Settler spear to fish site 2N of Horse site.
Other then that, nada.
Turn Two: Damascus builds settler, spear in 3, then escort. Roading to Mansura. Roading to the Iron. Road to Aden in 3. Moving units closer to Viking cities for Intimidation/ in case of war.
End
Turn Three: Vikings in OUR teritory, bracing for attack.Mecca built settler. Waiting for spear on 4 as escort. Our forces > Viking Forces (just to let you know)
Turn Four: Glory Glory! Vikings declare war, City 2E, 1S of Muscat is raized. Plan to rebuild later. Elite archer killed by reg spear. Reg warrior kills reg archer. Balk founded in Tundra/Horses spot.
Turn Five: Spear on city rubble promoted, now elite. Warrior headed to trodenhiem killed. Damacus builds spear, send settler off with it. Moved to ruins of old city. Worker heading to iron now has spear protection, Iron must be ours at all costs.
Turn Six: After a brief diner break, I return. Siege of Rekiv begins. One warrior dead. Make that two. Dam spears...
Turn Seven: Trodenheim observatory force of warriors killed. more units! Road to iron will take 9 turns. Disobeyed the rules partially and moved Tundra/Fish site over by 1NE, to get the game. Units heading to Vikings. Advice for next player: Turn 6- iron comes on line. Get prepared for a massacer
Seven (cont) Building Baracks in damascus. Moved settler 1E of original city site(rasied city) for benifits of hill.
Turn Eight: Temple built in Kufha. Vikings moving units towards us. Prepare for an attack within next three turns. Mosul built on hill, 1w of destroyed city. Aydab built on city 1NE of tundra fish (a new map is needed. dearly.)
Turn Nine: We now have horses!!!!! Neapolis c-fliped to us, with horses! We now can build horsemen! Hope Rome isnt PO'ed. Dammit! Fleet intending to kill fortifed archer threating iron is killed, including elite spear :(. Sorry folks..
Turn Ten: My last turn. Someone with better military skills will take over, thank goodness. Damascus riots, i hire an entertainer. BTW, Republic in 7. No battles, just building. A note to the next player: a few settlers on deck, just wating for spears.
Thus ends my disaterous SG. I just hope the DG will let me back in :(

heres the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Pad1_r_350bc.sav

From what I see first, one big :smoke:

1. We're at war with the Vikings, and you built Mosul right on the border!! It's going to be their next target (again), and a waste of a settler!

2. Mosul is on the hill. That's defensive, BUT, on expansion, it's all desert, 1 forest, and 1 hill. That TWO grassland to the SW is now WASTED!

:smoke:

Why is Aden happily building a temple when there's 2 archers (1 elite), and a warrior by it's borders!? And another is within view!!

BTW, that was an ok move on the tundra one, it was one of my plans for that area.. (a more ICS type build).

Our settler factory is RIOTING!?!?!?!?!? Why wasn't any micromanagement done? We're being invaded, and our biggest city is rioting!

Ok, I've got the game, and I'm going to try and salvage some stuff. I also see no instructions for the next player, and where's that spear/settler pair going to? :smoke: :smoke:

Also, when you say "Elite archer killed by reg spear", say whose archer and spear they were, and where (and how) it was attacked. It gives a picture for the next player. Say something like "Our elite archer lost attacking a reg. spear fortified in the desert by Muscat".

Also, never, NEVER attack spears with warriors after 2500BC. :smoke: After that date, most civs will have a few spears defending the city. :smoke: Those warriors were for swordsmen upgrade! Our cities closest to the war front should have barracks, too.

And I'll say it again:
READ THE PREVIOUS PLAYERS INSTRUCTIONS

Note the plural. A plan of attack may start 5, 10, even 15 players back. Jot down in notepad what the battleplans are. Put the file on your desktop. Not to mention I even said that cities past size 4 will need to be watched for rioting! That wasn't prevented.

Also, be more clear in your turnplay notes. Here's an example:

Fleet intending to kill fortifed archer threating iron is killed, including elite spear

huh!? Did you attack with an elite spear!?

Anyway, this is an "I've got the game!" post.

Orriginaly posted by Stuck_as_a_mack
*Bling, Bling*! Fleet intending to kill fortifed archer threating iron is killed, including elite spear

Originally posted by Chieftess
huh!? Did you attack with an elite spear!?

Note from the Imperial Grand Admiral:
Spearmen, no mater what rank they are, should always be used for defense. It is too risky to use spears for offensive missions
Never use Spears in offensive attack :nono: ;).

guys, let's not get carried away in the criticism! First of all, stuck, could you outline how many units we lost and how many the Vikings? As the others say, this is not clear in your report. Also, whose cities got razed? Hopefully not ours!!!

Only obviously weedy move was attacking spears with warriors - suicide; I, for one, do not mind your adjusting of city sites - as it says in someone's signature, "no plan ever survives contact with the enemy" - city positioning must be organic, we cannot rely solely on masterplans.

anyway, war is one of the most fun parts of civ 3, so look forward to the following few turns!

another thing, you waited for the Vikings to declare war. What you could have done is demand they leave as soon as they moved into our territory (1 turn earlier); since they were intending a sneak attack, they would have declared, but we would have had the first strike to cripple their offense before they could attack our cities...this is not criticism, just a handy tip for future reference

@ everyone- next time will be more detailed. and as for units... we lost two warriors on the "suicide" attack of the city. two more were lost scouting trodenhiem. other then that it was the elite spear i mentioned and two more wariors in a stack atempting to kill the fortified unit NE of the iron.
Gra