Here is a draft of the next Beta. There are plenty of things that are not working (like the counters on the screen). With so many changes, there are bound to be a whole bunch of bugs. This is definitely less stable then Beta 6, hence I am not calling it Beta 7 yet. However, I will need people to help me test and clean this one up. The biggest problem right now is the new stability scheme (hence the name, Unstable).

The idea is to try a few games and see how bad the new Stability scheme is.

There are 4 Categories now (Foreign got removed). Pretty much everything else work different:

Cities:
- keep them happy, healthy and safe (with military units)
- don't let foreign religion and/or foreign culture (above 60%)
- build Night Watches

Civics:
- other than mixing oppressive and liberal civics, don't get too many anarchies
- build Courthouses

Economy:
- work tiles with improvements only, prioritize resource tiles
- have open borders and many trade routes
- keep maintenance low
- don't go over the top with the army and wonders
- build Manor Houses

Expansion:
- build cities in Stable provinces
- DON'T LET FOREIGN CITIES IN YOUR PROVINCES
- Build Castles (which are more-expensive and don't give trade-routes anymore)
- get the right Civic option:
- Vassalage if you have Vassals (Vassals are harder to get now)
- Occupation if you are fighting expansive war (get stability from conquering cities)
- Imperialism, if you already have a large empire and you are trying to keep it (bonus for cities outside the core)
- Colonialism if you are building colonies

Damn the upload takes forever ....

https://sourceforge.net/projects/rfceurope/

Patch 1: Use those files to replace the files in RFCEurope\Assets\Python
Fixes Burgundy and German UHV, Orthodox faith gives Stability boost and couple of Python crashes.

Patch 2: Fixed the issues reported by Opera.

Patch 3: Fixed more reported by Opera. All hail Opera ...

trying the byzantines: why is thessaloniki unstable??

Also cities start with 92% french culture... (I checked all start like that)

A few thoughts of my first 200 years with the Byzantines:

- They dont get the production penalty anymore. I can crank out units en masse! And buildings.
- Their economy suck. 0% research after a few turns still get me at -25 gold/turn. Not bad however since it slows down tech to a minimum.
- Reloaded an autosave on the turn Jerusalem should have flipped, flip never happened.
- If you road the tile where the arabs start and empty the city of troops they always take Tyre which becomes their capital and moves all units there. Damascus never founded. This was also the case in beta 6.
- All cities start with minimum cultural border. A few should start with expanded borders.

trying the byzantines: why is thessaloniki unstable??

Also cities start with 92% french culture... (I checked all start like that)

Thessaloníki is a bug. I will fix that.

However, the French culture is a corrupt install. Make sure you are using the map in RFCEurope\PrivateMaps and not something else. You should probably delete everything RFCEurope and install again.

@ 3Miro

Is the Burgundian UP going to change? Currently, it's the same as the Lithuanian one, but the Burgundian will always work, but the Lithuanian will only work without State Religion. BTW, I don't think this UHV isn't Unique anymore.

@ 3Miro

Is the Burgundian UP going to change? Currently, it's the same as the Lithuanian one, but the Burgundian will always work, but the Lithuanian will only work without State Religion. BTW, I don't think this UHV isn't Unique anymore.

I just realized that I missed the Burgundian UHV when I was coding it yesterday. The culture date is set to 1336 and the third condition is to have higher score than France, England and Germany in 1473. The first condition doesn't work :hammer2:

I am happy with changing either Lithuania or Burgundy, but to what?

I have no idea for an new UP. I think it fits both. But I think it is better for the Lithuania. (I don't know just a feeling) I think it's more unique (because it's only working when you don't have a state religion). And I think it is easier to find a nice UHV for Burgundy.

Also, shouldn't Great Artist don't count for the first Lithuanian UHV (4000 culture without religion). Otherwise you'll have the UHV with only 1 of them.

I have no idea for an new UP. I think it fits both. But I think it is better for the Lithuania. (I don't know just a feeling) I think it's more unique (because it's only working when you don't have a state religion). And I think it is easier to find a nice UHV for Burgundy.

Also, shouldn't Great Artist don't count for the first Lithuanian UHV (4000 culture without religion). Otherwise you'll have the UHV with only 1 of them.

Artists don't count for both Burgundy and Lithuania (unless you settle them in the city, then you get the +12/turn bonus).

We can make Burgundy build wonders.

Trying as Franks, collapsed in 748. Too harsh for early game, cities often declare indy.

Played a bit with the Bulgarians, got two python exceptions:Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 119, in handleEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 130, in _handleDefaultEvent

File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 532, in onBeginGameTurn

File "RiseAndFall", line 837, in checkTurn

File "RiseAndFall", line 1127, in secession

AttributeError: RFCUtils instance has no attribute 'setParameter'
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface
Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 119, in handleEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 130, in _handleDefaultEvent

File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 706, in onEndGameTurn

File "Stability", line 271, in checkImplosion

File "RFCUtils", line 896, in killAndFragmentCiv

File "RFCUtils", line 904, in resetUHV

AttributeError: RFCUtils instance has no attribute 'getGoal'
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterfaceAnyway, it's interesting. I'm not sure stability works correctly yet, the bonus from orthodoxy doesn't seem to apply for instance.

More feedback later :)

You are right, this is still very unstable. Thanks for the input.

Uploaded a small patch with a few fixes.

Since it's python, it shouldn't break saves right?

Since it's python, it shouldn't break saves right?

It shouldn't, but I wouldn't trust it. The bug should have only prevented a player from getting 1 stability point upon secession, so shouldn't be major bug (i.e. totally breaking the game).

Tried Arabs, dead around 800 -- stability suddenly went to -91. I conquered Neapolis 10+ turns ago but it shouldn't be that harmful..

Tried Arabs, dead around 800 -- stability suddenly went to -91. I conquered Neapolis 10+ turns ago but it shouldn't be that harmful..

Which Category? Did you check the Financial advisor and do you have a savegame?

It shouldn't, but I wouldn't trust it. The bug should have only prevented a player from getting 1 stability point upon secession, so shouldn't be major bug (i.e. totally breaking the game).The orthodox stability is why I want the fix :)

New exception:Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 119, in handleEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 130, in _handleDefaultEvent

File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 616, in onBeginPlayerTurn

File "Victory", line 383, in checkPlayerTurn

File "Victory", line 804, in checkBurgundy

AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'i1376AD'
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

France is a stability nightmare. 4 cities in 860 and constantly around -12 stability. First UHV impossible.

Thanks for the input, I will look into it.

Another exception :)Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 119, in handleEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 130, in _handleDefaultEvent

File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 532, in onBeginGameTurn

File "RiseAndFall", line 837, in checkTurn

File "RiseAndFall", line 1129, in secession

NameError: global name 'iCathegoryExpansion' is not defined
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

And one more!Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 119, in handleEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 130, in _handleDefaultEvent

File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 465, in onCorporationFounded

File "Victory", line 580, in onCorporationFounded

AttributeError: Victory instance has no attribute 'setCorporationsFounded'
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

One more and you can start the "Python exceptions found by Opera in Beta Unstable thread". :lol:

I've tried France(collapsed) Norse(collapsed) Hungary Bulgaria and Venice. Hungary was fun and easy to stay stable. As Bulgaria and Venice I don't think I could win UHV because I had to settle a province called Arberia. I cannot find this province anywhere and it really is bugging me. If anyone can tell me where this province I would greatly appreciate it.

Welcome to CFC. You can find a map that shows provinces in the reference folder. (RFCEProvinces.html)

I've tried France(collapsed) Norse(collapsed) Hungary Bulgaria and Venice. Hungary was fun and easy to stay stable. As Bulgaria and Venice I don't think I could win UHV because I had to settle a province called Arberia. I cannot find this province anywhere and it really is bugging me. If anyone can tell me where this province I would greatly appreciate it.

Wrong name. In game it shows as Illyria (Albania). Will fix.

And one more!

This is awesome, thanks.

I will put another Patch.

Made patch 2, whomever is interested.

Wrong name. In game it shows as Illyria (Albania). Will fix.

Thanks a lot this really helps.

And another! :DTraceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 119, in handleEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 130, in _handleDefaultEvent

File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 532, in onBeginGameTurn

File "RiseAndFall", line 855, in checkTurn

File "RiseAndFall", line 1142, in resurrection

File "RiseAndFall", line 1247, in suppressResurection

File "RiseAndFall", line 1398, in resurectCiv

AttributeError: RFCUtils instance has no attribute 'setBaseStabilityLastTurn'
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

Edit: two in fact :pTraceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 119, in handleEvent

File "CvRFCEventManager", line 130, in _handleDefaultEvent

File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 616, in onBeginPlayerTurn

File "Victory", line 383, in checkPlayerTurn

File "Victory", line 670, in checkFrankia

AttributeError: Victory instance has no attribute 'getGoal'
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

I started a game as Lithuania and immediately lost my first UHV the 4000 culture one to be specific. It would also be nice for Lithuania to start with some money, Poland was marching around my spawn area and I received about 12 Guisamers(I think that's how you spell it) an extra Settler and two workers. My soldiers went on strike since I started with 0 in my treasury and I lost my UU's to the strike. I have the second patch in by the way. If the money has something to do historically then don't change it. Oh yeah an idea for the Lithuanian UP: the same as before(maybe) and Pagan Shrines don't obsolete so they can build them.

Awesome Opera, fixed those already.

I started a game as Lithuania and immediately lost my first UHV the 4000 culture one to be specific. It would also be nice for Lithuania to start with some money, Poland was marching around my spawn area and I received about 12 Guisamers(I think that's how you spell it) an extra Settler and two workers. My soldiers went on strike since I started with 0 in my treasury and I lost my UU's to the strike. I have the second patch in by the way. If the money has something to do historically then don't change it. Oh yeah an idea for the Lithuanian UP: the same as before(maybe) and Pagan Shrines don't obsolete so they can build them.

Fixed, thanks!

I will give an entire new stabilized version tonight, in the mean time I want to continue with the fast bugfix cycle.

@ 3Miro

In revision 563, you changed one of the PFK files. Did you change anything in it (for the new interface) or did you accidentally restored it to the older version?

@ 3Miro

In revision 563, you changed one of the PFK files. Did you change anything in it (for the new interface) or did you accidentally restored it to the older version?

Must have restored the old version by mistake. You should be able to revert this file alone.

Sorry, both of us were making changes simultaneously and I have missed that file.

It also happened on the Victory text file. Luckily, I noticed you "changed" it before I updated, so I could backup the files and nothing went lost.

Anyway, all is restored now.

It also happened on the Victory text file. Luckily, I noticed you "changed" it before I updated, so I could backup the files and nothing went lost.

Anyway, all is restored now.

I should have incorporated your changes in the Victory file ... anyway, it is all fixed now (thanks to you).

Ok just downloaded the latest version about 20 minutes ago and had an issue with Arabia

I was decently stable (-4) and yet Al Aqabah went indy, I have no idea why. It's in a stable province, I didn't do anything weird, it just flipped indy...

EDIT: same thing happened with alexandria when i started over UGH
EDIT 2: Jerusalem also flipped indy DOUBLE UGH

Ok just downloaded the latest version about 20 minutes ago and had an issue with Arabia

I was decently stable (-4) and yet Al Aqabah went indy, I have no idea why. It's in a stable province, I didn't do anything weird, it just flipped indy...

EDIT: same thing happened with alexandria when i started over UGH

Did you apply the patches?

Ok just downloaded the latest version about 20 minutes ago and had an issue with Arabia

I was decently stable (-4) and yet Al Aqabah went indy, I have no idea why. It's in a stable province, I didn't do anything weird, it just flipped indy...

EDIT: same thing happened with alexandria when i started over UGH
EDIT 2: Jerusalem also flipped indy DOUBLE UGH

- there was too much instability from anarchy, I fixed that in the patch, this should give you +2 points
- don't push west too past, you already have everything required for the first UHV, instead of units, build more Manor Houses and more Courthouses (that would be another +2 points at least)
- Why is it that you have no units in Damascus, guard your cities +1 point

You easily become stable, then get Castles for defense and stability and then push west. Also, get rid of Orthodoxy in your cities.

ok ill do that, yes i have the newest update

it just makes things so limited. I feel like moscovy or spain or large civs like that are going to have serious issues.

If I only settle stable spots why am i having so many issues? (it seems wayyyy too strict)

more arabia issues:

ok ill do that, yes i have the newest update

it just makes things so limited. I feel like moscovy or spain or large civs like that are going to have serious issues.

If I only settle stable spots why am i having so many issues? (it seems wayyyy too strict)

It is not just about what you settle. Expansion has to do with that, the rest has to do with how you manage your cities/economy and civics. The idea is that you have a more direct control over stability by building special buildings (Manor House, Courthouse, Castle ...), if you don't build those, you will run into trouble.

There is a problem with showing the dates of the foundation of religions (religious advisor), timeline/city foundation/wonders (info screen). they appear as TEXT_KEY_AGE_MEDIEVAL. in the corporation advisor the dates are normal though.

more arabia issues:

That one I don't know about. Why did the cities flip one turn earlier, they are supposed to flip on the second turn ... This has nothing to do with recent changes, I will have to investigate further.

There is a problem with showing the dates of the foundation of religions (religious advisor), timeline/city foundation/wonders (info screen). they appear as TEXT_KEY_AGE_MEDIEVAL. in the corporation advisor the dates are normal though.

merijn_v1, your department, what is wrong with the Medieval Text keys?

Okay, I stopped my Bulgaria game (the clash between me and the Ottomans looks scary).

My civilization

I made a decent empire: I had all of Moesia, Wallachia, Thrace, Macedonia, Serbia, Illyria and Greece. I had Thessaloniki and Constantinope (guarded by one Horse Archer on start!). I also had cities in Hungary (Belograd), Moldova (Bholgograd or something), NW of Anatolia (Nicea and the city west of Constantinople). You may say I over extended.

I think there was two keys to my relative stability (only Illyria declared its independance, once): 1) Orthodoxy; the stability bonus was, in the end, invaluable (100 faith); 2) I built Manor Houses, Courthouses and Castles in as many cities as possible. I also didn't change my civics much, only thrice: at start; then to get Religious Law and some other civic; then to get Imperialism (which helped too).

What happened in the world

I was surprised Byzantium didn't crumble after I took Constantinople. I'm not sure it's a bad or a good think historically? They did crumble later on, maybe due to the Seljuks.

The Arabs were leading but collapsed around 1100; my guess is on the crusade. I think the Venetians took Jerusalem; they also paid a heavy price for it since they went civil war! Never saw Venice crumble before.

Hungary eventually crumbled as well, due to Austria I think. The Mongols were coming but they didn't do much to Hungary... Maybe me having Belograd (a core province of them I believe) played with their stability?

Cordoba wasn't collapsed when the Turks spawned and Isabella diverted two crusades on them (Cordoba and Sevilla). Not sure they'll survive the loss of both.

Final thoughts

There seems to be an issue with spread out civs like Venezia and Genoa (which had bad stability too).

One thing I'd ask for though is to not make the mod too historical. I actually liked to see Venezia collapse or to see Cordoba still kickin'. I still dream of a muslim Iberia! Most likely won't happen but it's a nice, alt-historical thought.

I'd also like to have a "+X Faith points" tooltip for religious buildings. Also, Belfry and Reliquary don't seem to give points; I can understand it being for balance but it's not very intuitive. I'd suggest making FP a variable value like in SoI (decreasing slowly). Not sure how that'd turn out though.

I like the new stability model. It's a bit harsh for now. But I like the everpresent need of building stuff in the city if you want to expand.

That one I don't know about. Why did the cities flip one turn earlier, they are supposed to flip on the second turn ... This has nothing to do with recent changes, I will have to investigate further.Could the autoplay have hit the -1 mark? Thus delaying the flip? Last time I played Arabia, I also had Sour has the holy city.

yeah I actually recall that happening, didn't know it made the flip earlier though.

Alright I'm having civic stability issues. I have feudal monarchy, feudal law, serfdom, manorialism, state religion, and subjugation. Yet I have -12 | 4 and 1 star. I thought these were all fairly "feudal" and would be good civics together yet I'm having serious stability issues. Also is the "4" from my courthouses?

He he, I just collapsed trying a game with Bulgaria. Good job on succeeding. I did France with the new Patch.

The new Stability is supposed to be hard, but maybe it is a bit too hard. I introduced the code to make Byzantium collapse, that was one thing missing.

Good point on the -1 turn too. I will find the reason for that ... eventually.

I think it is too hard. You used to be able to expand to about -30. Now you can go only about -5 without losing cities. Maybe it should be more like -10 or -15 because you have to be VERY strict. I couldn't even destroy tarsus or caesara as arabia or else the stability would cause me to collapse. By the way, Byzantines are very very powerful in my game. They have about 15 units on Tarsus by 1000 A.D.

Playing a game as England and they're really good. You get the Island to yourself and plenty of time to fulfill the UHV. Now I'm not saying it's easy, France and Germany collapsed and the Independents were really strong huge stacks patrolling their borders. Burgundy is the other superpower besides me. I have a larger empire(all UHV provinces) and they have a huge military with 2 vassals Portugal and the Norse(Hungary was one but they collapsed). Lithuania is getting killed by Poland and their first UHV still doesn't work(I tried after patching). Spain and Cordoba collapsed leaving Portugal to the Iberian. Venice also conquered Jerusalem and collapsed themselves and Arabia. Bulgaria respawned three times and collapsed again and again. The Ottomans might have problems, they just spawned took over their core areas, converted to Orthodox and they are unstable. All in all it's still really fun and I think the new stability system is great. I might actually win with England if I can survive Burgundies onslaught.

Playing a game as England and they're really good. You get the Island to yourself and plenty of time to fulfill the UHV. Now I'm not saying it's easy, France and Germany collapsed and the Independents were really strong huge stacks patrolling their borders. Burgundy is the other superpower besides me. I have a larger empire(all UHV provinces) and they have a huge military with 2 vassals Portugal and the Norse(Hungary was one but they collapsed). Lithuania is getting killed by Poland and their first UHV still doesn't work(I tried after patching). Spain and Cordoba collapsed leaving Portugal to the Iberian. Venice also conquered Jerusalem and collapsed themselves and Arabia. Bulgaria respawned three times and collapsed again and again. The Ottomans might have problems, they just spawned took over their core areas, converted to Orthodox and they are unstable. All in all it's still really fun and I think the new stability system is great. I might actually win with England if I can survive Burgundies onslaught.

wow this is a crazy game! thanks for the feed back.

alright I'm confused about the techs. As Arabs I'm about done with all the "cheap" techs about 1000. Aristocracy took 2 turns and the next cheapest tech after that is civil service I believe at like 15 turns. Is this just for the arabs or is there a tech "cliff" for all civs?

EDIT: also comparing 2 techs

civil service - about 6000, 11 turns
clockmaking - abot 4300, 10 turns

isn't that weird?

sorry for all the posting...

the byzantine empire is REALLY rigged. They have tons of territory lots of tech tons of military and are more stable than me (I was arabia)

Some techs are harder to research according to the date. This was implemented so that tech development would follow a certain timeline.

I will try Arabia next, but I just did Bulgaria. While the Byz are hard, they are not invincible. You should build as many Manor Houses, Courthouses and Castles. Also, get Classical Knowledge and start prosecuting to clean your cities from foreign religion.

This will be far from perfect, but overall, so far so good.

Arabia:

UHVs: Not terribly difficult, just expanded slowly with Ghazi and it worked well. Getting that extra few % was a stretch but that's just how it should be.

Stability: Not as difficult as before. Once I got castles, it wasn't hard to keep +10 stability (even with numerous north african cities). Yeah your suggestions on stability really helped 3miro; I can't be nearly as aggressive as before. I like the new provinces, however I don't like how strictly you must play to avoid stability collapse.

Other civs:
Byzantines - very powerful (in my game they were definitely too powerful but others have said they are manageable). They took everything southeast of Ragusa (taking one traditionally Bulgar city and that one Venezian coastal spot near the timber island). They even got Konstanza! All the Mus barbs went south to me so they didn't take any sort of hit (and no plague as of yet)
Bulgaria - very weak (I vassalized) and muslim and well as Kiev being muslim
Cordoba - died in a timely manner and actually built an additional city in Africa! I call it a win
Genoa and Venezia - still very weak, however Genoa got Malta (still haven't got Sicily!! It needs to be on their settler map!)
All the others - I don't want to drone on details but others are doing surprisingly well, Burgundy doesn't suck ass, France is balanced. Germany, Poland, Kiev, Norse, Hungary all chugging along like normal. Overall not too bad; still a lot of fixes needed of course.

:goodjob:

The point here is to prevent things like HRE from France to Russia to Jerusalem. The AI Stability is still not fully balanced, but it should be bearable.

There was yet another bug allowing Arabia to Vassalize Bulgaria. Now you can only do that if you say capture Constantinople (or get territory close to Bulgaria).

I am running one more test for stability and I will post Beta 7 (give it an hour or two).

(fixed Lithuania UHV too)

I am running one more test for stability and I will post Beta 7 (give it an hour or two).

Hey 3Miro! I'm a little sick but got back on modding
Just dl-ed the latest revision, and will test how the new stability works soon

How important is it to release Beta 7 tonight?
I can finish my map changes and leader update in a couple hours
If we wait with Beta 7 until tomorrow night, those can be incorporated too

Just dl-ed the latest revision. Will test how the new stability works soon
How important is it to release Beta 7 tonight?
I can finish my map changes and leader update in a couple hours
If we wait with Beta 7 until tomorrow night, those can be incorporated too

Lets get Beta7 now, we have done semi-stable version now. We will get Beta 8 next Saturday, with fixes for the inevitable bugs and with the new maps.

Lets get Beta7 now, we have done semi-stable version now. We will get Beta 8 next Saturday, with fixes for the inevitable bugs and with the new maps.

Alright, that's also good

Btw, you missed to use the latest ChangeLog file in your last revision (10 mins ago)

Do you think we could add a plague around 1000? There are just tons of units everywhere until the 1350 plague.

this probably isn't a priority right now but a lot of civs seem tho start with the first uhv unfulfilled: france, bizantines, cordoba, arabs, venetians, norse. (may be more)

Just was playing Bulgaria on the Unstable Beta. Love the provinces. First, one idea: maybe have different shading depending on the status of the province? I had no idea, for example, what Wallachia's status was. It's so close, and has good land, but as far as I know, never was part of Bulgaria. That being said, Wallachia extends south of the Danube, which is weird, and takes some valuable river locations away from Bulgaria.

Second, Byzantium is one hell of an opponent. This is the first time I've played Bulgaria, so I don't know how it compares to previous Betas and Alphas, but I had to reload several times to get a somewhat favorable start.

Finally, a bug: by 772, I had lost the first UHV. I'm not sure if it had just happened, or if it had happened previously. Pictures attached.

Thanks again, and great job! On the one hand, I'd love to see beta 7 out in the next few; on the other, I should really go to sleep!

Just was playing Bulgaria on the Unstable Beta. Love the provinces. First, one idea: maybe have different shading depending on the status of the province? I had no idea, for example, what Wallachia's status was. It's so close, and has good land, but as far as I know, never was part of Bulgaria. That being said, Wallachia extends south of the Danube, which is weird, and takes some valuable river locations away from Bulgaria.

Thanks for the feedback!
The map is not updated yet in this version, but the Danube was moved
It will be the border of Wallachia and Moesia, as it should be
Btw, Moesia is a core province for Bulgaria, Wallachia is a stable one
Eventually there will be also be a difference between those when displaying the provinces on the map AFAIK

3Miro, this is my plan for the Balkans. I only added/moved some rivers, lakes, mountains to a more realistic position.
You were worried about Bulgaria. What do you think?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=281559&d=1296805791http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=281560&d=1296805791

Just was playing Bulgaria on the Unstable Beta. Love the provinces. First, one idea: maybe have different shading depending on the status of the province? I had no idea, for example, what Wallachia's status was. It's so close, and has good land, but as far as I know, never was part of Bulgaria. That being said, Wallachia extends south of the Danube, which is weird, and takes some valuable river locations away from Bulgaria.

Second, Byzantium is one hell of an opponent. This is the first time I've played Bulgaria, so I don't know how it compares to previous Betas and Alphas, but I had to reload several times to get a somewhat favorable start.

Finally, a bug: by 772, I had lost the first UHV. I'm not sure if it had just happened, or if it had happened previously. Pictures attached.

Thanks again, and great job! On the one hand, I'd love to see beta 7 out in the next few; on the other, I should really go to sleep!

The bug is strange, two of us did the first Bulgarian UHV today and we had no issues. I looked at the code too, theoretically there shouldn't be anything that can cause this. I can think of couple of ways for this to happen, but they are all ... scary. Right now, the best I can tell you is to try another game (wait about an hour for Beta 7, it is slowly uploading).

As for your strategy ... not good. Byzantium is supposed to be very hard, once you get that, the other conditions are easier. Here are some pointers:
- use your second settlers to found Sofia (next to the town just south of the Mountains), there is no point in keeping the settler in Preslav, it will do no good. Founding Sofia will also cover Macedonia as "conquered".
- You got the right idea to capture Adrianopolis and Thessaloníki first.
- However, as soon as you get those two cities, sign peace.
- Get Manorialism, switch to State Religion + Manorialism (change religion as soon as you can), then get Engineering. You will need 7 - 10 Catapults for the Theodosian walls, otherwise you will never capture Constantinople. You will need 7-10 Cats and about 4 - 6 Konniks (try to get more than 4).
- While you are building the army, send couple of Konniks to conquer Serbia (Belgrade) and you will need one more Settler for Albania (Arberia).
- Around 880AD, declare war and go straight for the kill. Get Constantinople without giving Byzantium a chance to regroup. Get there, spend 3 - 4 turns removing the defenses, suicide the Catapults and enter the city.

After that, make sure you have as many Priests in Constantinople as possible to get you the saints for the Faith Points. Get Siege Engines and Castles so you can build a few more cities.

BTW Wallachia was Bulgarian for a good junk of time, look at the maps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_I_of_Bulgaria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Asen_II_of_Bulgaria

@AbsintheRed: Balkans look good enough. I will have to adjust some city names and such, most notably Tarnovo. Can you update the map? Otherwise I can do it tomorrow after work.

@AbsintheRed: Balkans look good enough. I will have to adjust some city names and such, most notably Tarnovo. Can you update the map? Otherwise I can do it tomorrow after work.

My fever got up - 38.9 C right now (about 102 F) :S
But this means I will be home whole day long, so will probably be able to do some work
No promises that everything will be finished today though...

EDIT: Or I can post you only the updated Balkan region of the map.
That part is finished already, and I may post the rest a few days later

are we still doing the proposed greek island changes?

About Bulgaria:

My strategy was mostly flawed by the early conquest of Constantinople. I mean, it was a lucky move to get it two turns after I spawned. The Hadrianopolis and Thessaloniki went independent, Hadrianopolis revolting and without any defender. I captured Thessaloniki later because it had 5-6 units and I wasn't gonna send my lemmings on it (I actually failed the first UHV, time flew).

Also, the city in Serbia (Belgrad?) was razed; there was actually two city ruins in Serbia along the Danube... So no luck conquering anything there.

I founded Preslav and Konstanza (sp?) with my first settlers. That a bad move?

are we still doing the proposed greek island changes?

Yes
That needs a province update too, but I plan to change it for the next Beta

About Bulgaria:

My strategy was mostly flawed by the early conquest of Constantinople. I mean, it was a lucky move to get it two turns after I spawned. The Hadrianopolis and Thessaloniki went independent, Hadrianopolis revolting and without any defender. I captured Thessaloniki later because it had 5-6 units and I wasn't gonna send my lemmings on it (I actually failed the first UHV, time flew).

Also, the city in Serbia (Belgrad?) was razed; there was actually two city ruins in Serbia along the Danube... So no luck conquering anything there.

I founded Preslav and Konstanza (sp?) with my first settlers. That a bad move?

The first ruin is already there - it's preplaced on the map
Belgrade gets razed every now and then, but it's a good thing for replayability

Oh? What is the first ruin representing?

I'm not sure, maybe it was just added for map variety
It wasn't my change, it's there at least since Beta 1...

Oh? What is the first ruin representing?

I think they are generic town/city dilapidated/razed by the various invaders into Rome. Those ruins are cosmetic nothing more.

If Belgrade gets razed, you will need one more settler.

My fever got up - 38.9 C right now (about 102 F) :S
But this means I will be home whole day long, so will probably be able to do some work
No promises that everything will be finished today though...

EDIT: Or I can post you only the updated Balkan region of the map.
That part is finished already, and I may post the rest a few days later

Post what you got and then make sure to get better soon.

I will incorporate your changes and I add couple of things: I want to add a road next to the Russian rivers representing river trade. Also, some Access resources need re-balancing.

Belgrade gets razed every now and then, but it's a good thing for replayability

Also historicity - when I was there, we were told that the city had been razed some 40 times.

BTW, we should kill this thread. Move all discussions to the Beta 7 thread.

merijn_v1, your department, what is wrong with the Medieval Text keys?

It did work properly in the past. Are you sure you didn't changed it when you changed the interface?

EDIT: Never mind. I fixed it in revision 573.