Music Files Discussion [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

PDA

View Full Version : Music Files Discussion

Balthasar

Feb 21, 2011, 03:12 PM

Yessir. We've reached the point where we're ready to talk music..

Blue Monkey

Feb 21, 2011, 04:20 PM

Will links to short samples (amazon.com for example) work for discussion of music others might be unfamiliar with?

Balthasar

Feb 21, 2011, 09:34 PM

I don't see why not.

Blue Monkey

Feb 21, 2011, 09:47 PM

N.B.: Don’t be put off by the length of this post. Almost all of what’s in the spoilers is titles of songs with links. I apologize in advance if any of the urls got clipped in copying. At least that’s correctable.

the steam
Settling on a soundtrack raises a lot of issues. It may even rise to the level of defining the frontiers of steampunk. Here’s my take on some of what deserves consideration.

At the beginning of Anno Dracula is a passage that disparages “murgatroyds” - dandified vampires in lace & capes. This can be taken as a dig at the goth fashion scene of the last couple of decades. Gingerbread Coffin (http://www.amazon.com/Gingerbread-Coffin/dp/B002B87DM2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298349151&sr=1-1) by Rasputina & Coin-Operated Boy (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011ZR3S0/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk6) by The Dresden Dolls are frequently enjoyed items in my collection. The point is that there is plenty of music marketed as steampunk that isn’t, imho. To my ears it’s just “goths with gears”. Which evokes the central quandary about music for the steampunk scenarios. What makes it steamy & what makes it punk? Stretch your mind with this: imagine Vernian Process doing an instrumental version of Are You Experienced (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX0XVEmwlfs&feature=related) as a soundtrack for the Lumières' “Arrival of a Train” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlb3XKjnZkE). Not sure if it’s steampunk, but it blows the lid right off the cogitator, imho. The Clockwork Cabaret (http://www.clockworkcabaret.com/) plays some other sorts of eye-openers like Take This Waltz (http://www.amazon.com/Take-This-Waltz/dp/B00136RILY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298337880&sr=1-1) (Leonard Cohen) or Little Drop of Poison (http://www.amazon.com/Little-Drop-of-Poison/dp/B000YQSWSC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298337929&sr=1-1) by Tom Waits

the piston
Is the quest for a specific genre or style, certain kinds of lyrical content, steampunk instrumentation (whatever that might mean), something veritably Victorian albeit in an alternate history, or what ? Does the scenario need to have a single style of music, or is there room for some PoMo juxtaposition? One way to frame the question is “ what would an ideal soundtrack of a steampunk movie sound like?”

the fuel
None of these particular compositions are being suggested for the scenario. They are offered in consideration of the questions raised.

does it have a punk attitude ?
Cha Cha (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QO2LWU/ref=dm_dp_trk1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298338047&sr=301-1) - Balkan Beatbox
Shipping Up To Boston (http://www.amazon.com/Im-Shipping-Up-To-Boston/dp/B000YQZQUY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298338161&sr=1-2)- Dropkick Murphys
Jack the Ripper (http://www.amazon.com/Jack-The-Ripper/dp/B001384FCM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298338209&sr=1-1) - Motörhead
sounds like it’s played by some sort of weird steampunk instruments ?
Requiem For Adam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek3UjQ6Yz6E) - Terry Riley (played by Kronos Quartet)
played in the style of the period ?
Le Fakir de La Chapelle (http://www.amazon.com/fakir-chapelle-Anemic-cinema-1992/dp/B002RDIUKA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298338616&sr=8-2-catcorr) Anemic Cinema (1995 / 1997) - Pascal Comelade
Sailor Shirts (http://www.amazon.com/Sailor-Shirts/dp/B003YQR34S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298338663&sr=1-1) - Adam Green
Suspended In Gaffa (http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B000BDJ61K/ref=pd_krex_dp_001_004?ie=UTF8&track=004&disc=001) - Kate Bush
Being For The Benefit of Mister Kite (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCiG7xoEb2Y) - Beatles

includes steampunkish elements such as sound effects or samples ?
Yellow Submarine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS2YDM_BFwY) - Beatles
Watcher of the Skies (http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B0018BXO0S/ref=pd_krex_listen_dp_img?ie=UTF8&refTagSuffix=dp_img) - Genesis Revisted - Steve Hackett (telegraph)
Mr. Blue Sky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjPqsDU0j2I) - ELO (aetheric / radio modulations at start)
Welcome to the Machine (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000SX9Q2M/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk2) - Pink Floyd
something in the timbre or rhythm?
Khokovula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSaE527cs30) - Zola
Bad You Know (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzC_rGX-XyM) - R. L. Burnside
H. G. Wells (http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B000003S2E/ref=pd_krex_listen_dp_img?ie=UTF8&refTagSuffix=dp_img) (track 7) - Robert Fripp
aurally evokes a steampunk image or feeling?
Timesteps [Excerpt] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85UwSblrmjA) - Wendy Carlos (mysterious place mysterious machine)
Three Fates (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026GB208/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk4) - ELP (something Captain Nemo might play?)
lyrical content regardless of style?
John Henry (http://www.amazon.com/John-Henry/dp/B001EWH7D6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298343548&sr=1-1) - Doc Watson
Working In A Coal Mine (http://www.amazon.com/Working-In-The-Coal-Mine/dp/B002SE76SA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298343661&sr=1-1) - Devo
One of Our Submarines (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000S52YYM/ref=dm_sp_alb?ie=UTF8&qid=1298343717&sr=1-1) - Thomas Dolby (or any other of his many cracked boffin songs)
South Side of the Sky (http://www.amazon.com/South-Side-Of-The-Sky/dp/B001L63H66/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298343865&sr=1-3) - Yes (polar exploration)
Chung Kuo (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NSK5JE/ref=dm_dp_trk1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298343980&sr=1-5) - Vangelis (reaching the secret valley)
Agharta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItnUwNb7Oc4&feature=related) - Afrika Bambaataa (hollow earth)
supposed authenticity?
- reaching progressively closer to the source

modern versions of period songs

Lancers Medley (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QVG3MC/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk18) & Let's All Go Down The Strand (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QVG3DQ/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk13) - A Victorian Christmas Revels

wax analog recordings of period musicians

I'm Going Away To Wear You Off My Mind (http://www.amazon.com/Going-Away-Wear-You-Mind/dp/B001TXW1E0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298345343&sr=1-3) - King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band
Liberty Bell March (http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Bell-March/dp/B00168UY92/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298345264&sr=1-6) - John Phillips Sousa

the composers’ performance captured by hand-played piano roll

Rosebud (http://www.amazon.com/Rosebud/dp/B003KXMNTU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298345402&sr=1-1) - Scott Joplin (William Albright playing careful reconstructions from damaged piano rolls)
Shreveport Stomps (http://www.amazon.com/Shreveport-Stomp/dp/B002B38SL2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298345465&sr=1-2) - Jelly Roll Morton (played by the master himself)

the very music the Victorians themselves actually played in their homes - not modern reconstructions

Ten Air Cylinder Box With Drums And Bells (http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Air-Cylinder-Drums-Bells/dp/B002LCEYGG/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1298345796&sr=1-12) - The Three Disc Symphonion
read about the technology here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_box#History)
Last but not least, my personal favorite & one of the earliest steampunk bands. A proper mix of Victorian style & sentiment with Punk style & attitude, imho. Wish there was a full and primarily instrumental soundtrack by them.
Death On Two Legs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffiZPD6Quos)
God Save The Queen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjEphmIqtjM) ;)

The track is laid. At least the first section.

There ought to be something provocative in all that.

:coffee:

Blue Monkey

Feb 21, 2011, 09:47 PM

Amazing how fast I can type, eh what? :p

Sir Sam Vimes

Feb 22, 2011, 06:07 AM

Blue Monkey

Feb 22, 2011, 03:38 PM

Blue Monkey

Feb 22, 2011, 03:43 PM

It would be nice to have something with a Victoriental flavor available. Some of the scenarios - such as the Hollow Earth - will include Middle Eastern, Indian Subcontinent, and East Asian elements.

Vernian Process

Feb 23, 2011, 12:40 AM

why bother infringing copyright? I'm happy to post stuff I've composed for use in scenarios, and if anyone else plays music maybe they should do the same... that way we'd get a totally original soundtrack for a totally original scenario

...just a thought...

as for 'what makes it steam and what makes it punk?' well... I've already mentioned The Men Who Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing, who essentially combine musical saw, steampunky samples, jaunty piano and acoustic guitars with a whole lot of crust punk to make something best described as steamPUNK... you avoid goths with gears by not over-emphasising orchestral music, doomy sub-bass and angsty, dark lyrics (NO SONGS ABOUT JACK THE RIPPER!!!!!)... you make it punk by using punk rhythms and playing styles. Frankly, steampunk as a genre and the Victorian age as an era are full of opportunities to discuss trad 'punk' themes (child labour? check! benevolent dictatorship disguised as democracy? check! wayward youths? check! street gangs? check! rich dandies trying to live a life of danger? check! drugs? check! decadence? check! repressive attitudes to sex, gender relations, race and freedom of speech? check! colonial rebellions? check check!

In defense of our music... it isn't all dark and gloomy, but we happen to really enjoy dark and gloomy music. The songs on our current album only scratch the surface of the more serious subject matter we are working on. The whole point of this album was to make it as traditional Steampunk as possible to hook new listeners. Then we can drop some bombs.

Let me see here, right off the top of my head... here are some of the topics of songs we are working on:

(These are from a concept album about atrocities that various empires committed throughout the mid 19th - mid 20th Centuries)
The Areminian Massacre at the hands of the Ottoman Empire.
The British Empire's attempt at wiping out Ireland with the Great Potato Famine.
The Boer Wars and the general messed up history of South Africa during the Victorian era.
The biological experimentation of Japan during WW2 in camps such as Unit 731.
The torture and genocide caused by the Chekists during the Russian Revolution.
(we have a full album of songs about many more atrocities than these as well)

And for a few more on the social and philosophical tip we are writing songs about:
The wild rumors that Charles Dodgson (aka Lewis Caroll) was in love with Alice Lidel (the young girl who was his inspiration for the Wonderland books).
A hip-hop track (with a very special guest MC) that explores the parallels between the social conditions of the 1880's and the 1980's, and how very little has changed in a hundred years.

The next album is titled "The Consequences of Time Travel", and the title song is that of a Time Traveler reflecting on all of the poor decisions he has made in his attempts to correct history. And reflecting on the fact that no matter what time period he goes to, humans always have the exact same problems.

Basically that's a peek at where we are going lyrically. The whole Castlevania-esque overblown orchestral sound is just a preference we have. We don't expect everyone to like it, and that's ok. We aren't going to use it all the time, in fact we are trying to incorporate styles from a vast range of different cultures. Hell we aren't even worried about sticking to the whole Steampunk aesthetic either. We will always make our music as atmospheric as possible, regardless of genre or influences.

And in defense of "The Curse of Whitechapel", if you really look into the lyrics, it isn't a song "about" Jack the Ripper... it's a song about his thought process, and how he justifies his actions as some kind of noble act to save humanity from certain doom. It's kind of a black comedy in a way.

Oh and I happen to really enjoy The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing. As well as many, many other artists who are proudly waving the Steampunk banner these days. We are actually planning on doing a small EP of Steampunkified covers of various appropriate Punk songs (i.e. Exploited - Troops of Tomorrow, Blitz - New Age, The Adicts - Joker in the Pack, etc).

Cheers,
Josh

Blue Monkey

Feb 23, 2011, 01:21 AM

Vernian Process

Feb 23, 2011, 04:16 AM

Welcome to CFC, VP!

I hope it's clear that I enjoy your music & the other musicians I mentioned. My disappointment is definitely only towards those who have a very narrow definition of the steampunk aesthetic. "Dark & gloomy" encompasses everything from Queen (ie "Death On Two Legs") to Kronos Quartet (try listening to Black Angels without getting unsettled), imho. I look forward to hearing what you do with the projects / topics you mentioned above.

I hope we can look forward to more postings from you - and about more than just the music.

P.S. - I interpreted Sir Sam Vines J the R comment as in reference to the Motorhead song, rather than yours.

Ahhh! I see, ok that makes more sense. I actually get a lot of comments from people that don't like our music because it is too dark and heavy for them, so I'm kind of used to speaking up in its defense lol.

Oh my it is late, I really must get to sleep. I will try to respond to your other comments tomorrow.

Cheers,
Josh

Sir Sam Vimes

Feb 23, 2011, 04:22 AM

In defense of our music... it isn't all dark and gloomy, but we happen to really enjoy dark and gloomy music. The songs on our current album only scratch the surface of the more serious subject matter we are working on. The whole point of this album was to make it as traditional Steampunk as possible to hook new listeners. Then we can drop some bombs.

Let me see here, right off the top of my head... here are some of the topics of songs we are working on:

(These are from a concept album about atrocities that various empires committed throughout the mid 19th - mid 20th Centuries)
The Areminian Massacre at the hands of the Ottoman Empire.
The British Empire's attempt at wiping out Ireland with the Great Potato Famine.
The Boer Wars and the general messed up history of South Africa during the Victorian era.
The biological experimentation of Japan during WW2 in camps such as Unit 731.
The torture and genocide caused by the Chekists during the Russian Revolution.
(we have a full album of songs about many more atrocities than these as well)

And for a few more on the social and philosophical tip we are writing songs about:
The wild rumors that Charles Dodgson (aka Lewis Caroll) was in love with Alice Lidel (the young girl who was his inspiration for the Wonderland books).
A hip-hop track (with a very special guest MC) that explores the parallels between the social conditions of the 1880's and the 1980's, and how very little has changed in a hundred years.

The next album is titled "The Consequences of Time Travel", and the title song is that of a Time Traveler reflecting on all of the poor decisions he has made in his attempts to correct history. And reflecting on the fact that no matter what time period he goes to, humans always have the exact same problems.

Basically that's a peek at where we are going lyrically. The whole Castlevania-esque overblown orchestral sound is just a preference we have. We don't expect everyone to like it, and that's ok. We aren't going to use it all the time, in fact we are trying to incorporate styles from a vast range of different cultures. Hell we aren't even worried about sticking to the whole Steampunk aesthetic either. We will always make our music as atmospheric as possible, regardless of genre or influences.

And in defense of "The Curse of Whitechapel", if you really look into the lyrics, it isn't a song "about" Jack the Ripper... it's a song about his thought process, and how he justifies his actions as some kind of noble act to save humanity from certain doom. It's kind of a black comedy in a way.

Oh and I happen to really enjoy The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing. As well as many, many other artists who are proudly waving the Steampunk banner these days. We are actually planning on doing a small EP of Steampunkified covers of various appropriate Punk songs (i.e. Exploited - Troops of Tomorrow, Blitz - New Age, The Adicts - Joker in the Pack, etc).

Cheers,
Josh

I actually like your stuff... and the Ripper comment was about the Moterhead song...
Just one thing, as an Irishman myself, its just the Great Famine and, no matter what the IRA say, it wasn't an attempt at genocide on behalf of the government (eg, say, the USSR-engineered Ukrainian famine). It was a combination of economic mismanagement, lack of any economic management at all and greedy individuals, making it the food equivilant of the current banking crisis:)

And I wasn't critiquing your use of orchestral music and so on... I was more taking a postshot at the kind of track that sounds like a poor man's evanescence with added steam engine fx (well... evanescence ARE a poor man's evanescence, but you know what I mean...)

Incidentally, for a random take on popularising steampunk, check the video for Panic! At the Disco's latest single 'The Ballad of Mona Lisa'... for non-panic fans, its full of visual allusions to their 1st vid, 'I Write Sins Not Tragedies' so you might wanna check that first, but its an interesting example of the steampunk aesthetic being used by a non-steampunk band, altho given that their 1st album used vaudeville and victorian burlesque sounds as well as dance music and punk/emocore, and their second album featured a brass band, there's probably an argument in favour of calling them 'steamocore' :lol:

"If your enemy has an impregnable fortress, see that he stays there"
"We are half alone, our hearts are leaving home/Now we don't belong to anyone at all"

Another Anglo-Saxon Britain scenario (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=412804)

Balthasar

Feb 23, 2011, 07:43 AM

Hikaro Takayama

Feb 23, 2011, 03:51 PM

Hi, welcome to the forums, VP! Glad to see someone else from the Brass Goggles SP forum around here...

BTW, I didn't mention this earlier, but I'm working on adapting your Tribute to Final Fantasy songs for the Final Fantasy mod....

Look forward to seeing more of you around here...;)

Vernian Process

Feb 23, 2011, 04:19 PM

Again my apologies for not fully reading over the thread ;)

We do actually have the entirety of Behold the Machine free to download in instrumental form here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7znyrngs6qrjq5a

I'm at work at the moment, so i don't have time to elaborate further, but again please feel free to use any of those instrumental tracks you like!

Cheers,
Josh

Sir Sam Vimes

Feb 24, 2011, 04:49 AM

Hi Josh, welcome to the discussion. Of course I also like VP, and my musical tastes reach back to pre-punk progressive stuff. That you would find us discussing you in connection to our planned game mod in this obscure corner of the web is just flank-steak amazing.

But I would remind you all, gentlemen, that we're discussing the soundtrack to a game, which is, by necessity, instrumental tracks (is there an instrumental version of The Curse of Whitechapel anywhere? That would perfectly open this mod..) We have a lot of time to fill, however, so there's lots of room for anything we want to use - as long as we have proper and official permissions for everything we use, of course.

I hope to stick some of my own music in if I can ever get it recorded.

As for the 'gloomy music' discussion: have you noticed that, historically, the gloomier the economy is, the more upbeat the music seems to be? And of course the inverse is also true, generally. See? A half-dozen good examples just popped into your head. It's a very general rule, of course, and there are lots of exceptions, but, as a general rule, it's generally true, more or less...

Yeah, because the Pistols' 'God Save the Queen' was SO upbeat ...'no future/no future/no future for you!'... altho in general you have a point (ish)

and a soundtrack doesn't necessarily have to be entirely instrumental (see the soundtrack for Plotinus' The Rood and The Dragon scenario (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=105759)):)

and yeah, it is amazingly cool to have someone actually making their mark on alt-rock on this forum, as opposed to just diehard no-hopers with a hard-drive full of instrumental compositions and a pop-hardcore band with one gig to their name (ie; me:lol:)

oh, and if anyone's interested, I was sitting here bored in a computer room in uni, so I went on Soundcloud (free online DAW) and made this (http://www.soundation.com/studio/play/?audio=c48c766ee7bfa4efce9269b5b6cc3d2d)... its just a 22-second experiment in trying to make something steampunky, and please bear in mind that as i don't have a paid account with them I was working from a very limited range of samples... if I were at home, even tho I'm just using freeware, I'd have 20-odd soft synths, a coupla soft drumsynths, an electric guitar with modulation pedal, an acoustic guitar, a (very out of tune) piano, a harmonica and above all else a halfway-useable software studio:)
:band:

Blue Monkey

Mar 10, 2011, 02:19 PM

All the threads in the steampunk subforum are temporarily closed while we reorganize. Expect a reopening of a new, organized improved version soon.

Blue Monkey

Mar 21, 2011, 03:28 PM

The steampunk forum is reorganized & reopened.

Check the directory (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=416072) if you're not sure where to find things. Make any general posts (not related to a specific scenario) here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=246285).

KingArthur

Mar 21, 2011, 06:18 PM

I'd lean towards the instrumental tracks for a game but that's just personal preference.

For a Lost Worlds theme I think we should try and sequence tracks that fit in with the evolving gameplay e.g.

Theme 1 - Britannia: Imperial. Magisterial. Classical
Theme 2 - Atlantis and The Underworld: Mystical but quickly turning to Disturbing and Eerie.
Theme 3 - Pellucidar: Primitive. Primal. Jungle Drums
Theme 4 - The Ether and The Moon: Ethereal. Mystical again.
Theme 5 - Mars: Ethnic. Noble. Savage.

Here are some picks all by the same musician and all royalty free. I've tried to arrange them in the order of the themes outlined above but you might find one or two out of place.

http://incompetech.com/m/c/royalty-free/index.html?genre=Classical

Danse Macabre; Danse Macabre - Finale - period piece
Also Sprach Zarathustra - another period piece but maybe too associated with a certain movie
Funeral March for Brass - Victorian's loved funerals didn't they.. :)
Consort for Brass - Stately, might even fit as Diplo Music for the Brits
Agnus Dei X; Schmetterling - for secret and evil societies
Tiny Fugue; Toccata and Fugue in D Minor - submarine music

http://incompetech.com/m/c/royalty-free/index.html?feels[]=Action

Alchemists Tower
Exciting Trailer
Colossus
Stoneworld Battle
Failing Defense
Evil March
Exotic Battle
Power Restored
Vortex

http://incompetech.com/m/c/royalty-free/index.html?genre=Horror
Deep Noise
Slow Ticking Clock
Pop Goes the Weasel
Dopplerette
Quinn's Song: The Dance Begins
Awkward Meeting
Decay
Seven March

http://incompetech.com/m/c/royalty-free/index.html?feels[]=Epic
Constancy Part Two
AngloZulu
Arcadia
Steel and Seething
Tenebrous Brothers Carnival - Snake Lady
Firesong

Sir Sam Vimes

Mar 22, 2011, 06:46 AM

Balthasar

Mar 23, 2011, 08:31 AM

My favorites from that site are:

Danse Macabre
Sonatina in C Minor
Waltz (Tchaikovsky Op 40)
Alchemists Tower
Colossus
Scheming Weasel (both fast & slow versions)
Constancy Parts 1,2 and 3
Sneaky Snitch
Umbrella Pants
Ghost Dance
Crisis
Tenebrous Brothers Carnival, Part 2
One-eyed Maestro
Intended Force
Iron Horse
An Upsetting Theme
Not as it Seems (Search by Feel: Suspenseful)
Professor and the Plant

I spotted some Diplo music in there too:

Sonata 17 - Britain
Schmetterling - Goth Civ
Unpromised - Atlantis
Redletter - Cthulhu
Temple of the Manes - Orovar, Barsoom
Myst - Helium, Barsoom

Many many songs in the African and Wonders of Other Worlds categories for Pellucidar and Barsoom.

As far as the Vernian Process Music is concerned, I've so far identified the following instrumental pieces as possibly fitting in:

Curse of Whitechapel (Instrumental) from Behold the Machine - First song, first era
Into the Depths from Behold the Machine - early second era
At the Center of the Earth from Discovery - late second era
Rust (Part 3) from Forgotten Ages - early third era
De La Terre a La Lune from Discovery for our Moon - late third era

Blue Monkey

Mar 23, 2011, 06:52 PM

The silent film score page at that site has a quite a few interesting pieces. Longer files could be made by editing together some of those.

Balthasar

Mar 23, 2011, 09:30 PM

Ah, that's the question, isn't it? Some of those Silent film pieces seem that they'd fit right into something like this. But I get the impression that KA would like to keep this score mostly cinematic. I can see that. You know, there is a story in The making of the music for Back to the Future (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1984827687116651136#) where Bob Zemekis went to Alan Silvestri and said, "Look, I don't have a lot of money, and I don't have a lot of really big images on the screen, so make the music really big so that it will make the movie seem bigger than it really is."

Seems to me that would apply here as well, as we piece this soundtrack together. Is there a way to do wonder splash music, does anyone know?

Blue Monkey

Mar 23, 2011, 09:31 PM

If there's a sound played there's gotta be a file. Which means a way to customize ought to be possible.

Takhisis

Mar 23, 2011, 09:36 PM

Maybe an elusive .amb file?

KingArthur

Mar 24, 2011, 02:25 AM

Yes there is a file but can't remember where it is off the top of my head. We have one in the EFZI2 scenario that plays the theme tune of a news channel/programme.

KingArthur

Mar 24, 2011, 02:50 AM

I spotted some Diplo music in there too:
Sonata 17 - Britain
Schmetterling - Goth Civ
Unpromised - Atlantis
Redletter - Cthulhu
Temple of the Manes - Orovar, Barsoom
Myst - Helium, Barsoom

That could work but what are the culture groupings again. Diplo music is tied to culture group and you have 2 files to play with for each group: one played when at war and one played when at peace.

Ah, that's the question, isn't it? Some of those Silent film pieces seem that they'd fit right into something like this. But I get the impression that KA would like to keep this score mostly cinematic.
I don't really have a musical bone in my body so I'm quite happy leaving the choice to someone else. I did consider those silent film scores too.

Another way to play around with sound is to use preplaced units that will play their fidget sound. It's a good way to get localised sound and theme triggers into the game - got to watch they don't jar with the background music though.

Blue Monkey

Mar 24, 2011, 03:13 AM

Another way to play around with sound is to use preplaced units that will play their fidget sound. It's a good way to get localised sound and theme triggers into the game - got to watch they don't jar with the background music though.Slaptheforheadishouldathotathatyoragenius.

Balthasar

Mar 24, 2011, 04:34 AM

That could work but what are the culture groupings again. Diplo music is tied to culture group and you have 2 files to play with for each group: one played when at war and one played when at peace.

Oops. That could be an issue. Right now we've got some very different civs sharing culture groups just because their city graphics match:

All Human Civs - European
All Martians except Firstborn - Mediterranean
All Moon Civs - American
Amoz, Atlantis - Asian
Mahar, Firstborn, Cthulhu - Mid East

The Firstborn could be moved into the Mediterranean group (the Mid-East City type is essentially just a large hole in the ground).

Sir Sam, how are you set up to research/set up a large-scale music editing/conversion operation? We need all of this music edited together - I believe that there isn't a limit on the length of the regular background music files...

We probably also need an accurate list of all of the game's sound files (not counting units) so that we know what we need.

Sir Sam Vimes

Mar 24, 2011, 05:25 AM

Oops. That could be an issue. Right now we've got some very different civs sharing culture groups just because their city graphics match:

All Human Civs - European
All Martians except Firstborn - Mediterranean
All Moon Civs - American
Amoz, Atlantis - Asian
Mahar, Firstborn, Cthulhu - Mid East

The Firstborn could be moved into the Mediterranean group (the Mid-East City type is essentially just a large hole in the ground).

Sir Sam, how are you set up to research/set up a large-scale music editing/conversion operation? We need all of this music edited together - I believe that there isn't a limit on the length of the regular background music files...

We probably also need an accurate list of all of the game's sound files (not counting units) so that we know what we need.

at the moment I'm under a lot of pressure with deadlines for uni, but that'll ease off in a few days. If you want music files converted I already have the software, and as I say I have enough composing/producing/sequencing/mastering software to crash a small netbook:)

So yeah, I'm your man for that... the one thing is that some of those files may need additional music added to them to act as a sort of sonic 'glue' to hold more disparate elements together... this is no biggie for me, as I like composing and I also have a a lot of suitable royalty-free samples I wanna try out, but I thought I ought to mention it :)

can't you have 7 culture groups? Wouldn't that allow some more room to manouvre?

and KA's idea about prepalced units could well be the smartest thing I've ever heard...

Balthasar

Mar 24, 2011, 06:21 AM

at the moment I'm under a lot of pressure with deadlines for uni, but that'll ease off in a few days. If you want music files converted I already have the software, and as I say I have enough composing/producing/sequencing/mastering software to crash a small netbook:)

Then you're our guy. Blue Monkey is the keeper of the Modding Wiki - perhaps he can point you to particular files or posts about music conversion. Your studies come first, of course (if I hear different, I'll be very disappointed), but when you have the time, this will be a valuable contribution. I envy you this job; my 'mates' and I invented new age music - I have the tapes from 1973 to prove it - and to have all of my music recording ability out of commission at this moment, and on this project, is truly frustrating and ironic. You know, Michael Giacchino, who did the incredible music for 'The Incredibles', among other things, started by making scores for video games...

So yeah, I'm your man for that... the one thing is that some of those files may need additional music added to them to act as a sort of sonic 'glue' to hold more disparate elements together... this is no biggie for me, as I like composing and I also have a a lot of suitable royalty-free samples I wanna try out, but I thought I ought to mention it :)

That's actually a good idea; I saw some good short cuts at that site you might also use.
Forget about increasing the number of culture groups; it's hardcoded AFAIK, unfortunately - unless you also happen to be a programming prodigy as well....

and KA's idea about prepalced units could well be the smartest thing I've ever heard...

Sorry to buck the crowd on this one, but I'm frankly a little skeptical about how that would work in practice, actually, unless we're talking about sound FX. I think we should concentrate on getting a list of what sound files we need to make first..

Takhisis

Mar 24, 2011, 07:49 AM

Sir Sam Vimes

Mar 24, 2011, 08:50 AM

@ Balthasar: cheers!

Blue Monkey

Mar 24, 2011, 05:34 PM

Blue Monkey is the keeper of the Modding Wiki - perhaps he can point you to particular files or posts about music conversion.There is no Modding Wiki - as far as C3 content goes. OTOH there are some clear simple explanations of the parameters Civ needs ( file type, sample rate, etc.) in the tutorial section. Start here:
Adding/Specifying Custom Music for Civ3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87181)
Customizing Era-Specific Background Music in C3C (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92419)

Sir Sam Vimes

Mar 25, 2011, 05:54 AM

There is no Modding Wiki - as far as C3 content goes. OTOH there are some clear simple explanations of the parameters Civ needs ( file type, sample rate, etc.) in the tutorial section. Start here:
Adding/Specifying Custom Music for Civ3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87181)
Customizing Era-Specific Background Music in C3C (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92419)

On it:coffee:

Edit: hmmm... if you guys want some of that music you've been talking about fitted into it, can you post a url? And do we have permission to use VP's instrumental stuff, because its pretty cool?

Takhisis

Mar 25, 2011, 08:35 AM

You can post links to YouTube videos (or use the tags) as examples, although I'm not sure what the legal position is on using those. Still, as we're not making any money out of this -or preventing the owners from earning money themselves- then I'd assume we're fine.

Balthasar

Mar 25, 2011, 11:00 AM

Edit: hmmm... if you guys want some of that music you've been talking about fitted into it, can you post a url? And do we have permission to use VP's instrumental stuff, because its pretty cool?

Sam, you need to re-read the thread, there are links infra to all of the music we've discussed.

But, since I'm here:

I packed up the Vernian Process music that I listed and posted it >here (http://www.atomicgamer.com/file.php?id=90881)<.
And yes, after Josh posted, we got separate email confirmation that it was okay to use the Vernian Process music in this mod. Everything in that rar file is instrumental.

The royalty free music by Kevin MacLeod that King Arthur & I posted lists about (in this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10325301&postcount=19) and this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10329659&postcount=21)) can be found >here (http://incompetech.com/m/c/royalty-free/index.html)<. Use the Keywords function to find particular pieces.

Generally, the Victorian-sounding pieces will go mostly into the first and second eras. The First Era should open with Curse of Whitechapel by Vernian Process, the Second Era with Danse Macabre from the Royalty Free Music site, I think.
In the middle second era, the player travels to the underground (scary music, and Into the Depths by Vernian Process) and finally finds the Prehistoric World of Pellucidar (African beats, Dragon and Toast by MacLeod, Center of the Earth by Vernian Process)
In the third era, we reach the Moon. Vernian Process' beautiful De La Terre a La Lune is a good example of that era's music - electronic and mystical.
Finally, in the fourth era we reach Barsoom which should have rythmic, but epic music. MacLeod's Colussus is a good example, but also Myst and Exotic Battle.

As far as Diplo music is concerned, I've been thinking about that. Here are some pieces from the Royalty Free Music site that I think would match the cultures:

European Culture: (League, Blackcoats, Britain, Malum Sodalitas, Gothic Union)
"Happy" - Ghost Dance
"Angry" - Agnus Dei X

Asian Culture: (Atlantis, Amoz)
'Happy' - Willow and the Light
'Angry' - Unpromised

Mid-East Culture (Mahar, Cthulhu)
'Happy' - Dark Dance
'Angry' - Redletter

American Culture (Selenites, U-ga)
'Happy' - Darkness is Coming
'Angry' - Gnarled Situation

Mediterranean Culture (All Barsoom Civs)
'Happy' - Desert City
'Angry' - Round Drums

That should start you out. We still need a list posted of all music files.

Blue Monkey

Mar 25, 2011, 03:22 PM

Just to confirm what Balthasar said: the permissions from VP are officially logged in the staff forum. Including a statement from an older conversation that was had with Hikaro. All that's needed are the usual proper credits - which can be in the readme file accompanying the scenario download.

Blue Monkey

Mar 25, 2011, 03:23 PM

That should start you out. We still need a list posted of all music files.I believe there is a list in one of those tutorial threads. If not you or Sam can start a query thread in the main forum.

Balthasar

Mar 25, 2011, 05:11 PM

I believe there is a list in one of those tutorial threads. If not you or Sam can start a query thread in the main forum.

You know what? You're right. It was there all along. I need to do my own research before advising others to do theirs. My bad.

Sir Sam Vimes

Mar 28, 2011, 04:09 AM

You know what? You're right. It was there all along. I need to do my own research before advising others to do theirs. My bad.

I for one forgive you the slip, given that you live up to your title and know basically everything else :bowdown:

Balthasar

Mar 28, 2011, 07:21 AM

I for one forgive you the slip, given that you live up to your title and know basically everything else :bowdown:

I've got you fooled, anyway. :D

Sir Sam Vimes

Apr 04, 2011, 04:02 AM

;) lol

Sir Sam Vimes

May 16, 2011, 08:49 AM

Balthasar

May 16, 2011, 06:35 PM

in the middle of my exams, so apologies for brevity. DL'd all trax and started trying to glue them together. What about 'mars' from the planets suite for angry diplo? And this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoBH5sUjdsI) for human era four :)

Holst's Mars? That's public domain (I think), so it could be used if it fits. The Angels & Airwaves piece doesn't move me, for several reasons, not the least of which is that, having found an ample supply of music that we know we can use legally, we should see what we can do with it before adding music of more questionable availability. Your own compositions are perfectly allowable though, and I'm ramping up my own midi ability, so, don't worry, we will have alot more music to work with in the near future...

Blue Monkey

May 16, 2011, 06:39 PM

Holst's Mars? That's public domain (I think), so it could be used if it fits. The performance recorded may be protected, iirc. I think he's referring to the VP version, which we have permission for.

Sir Sam Vimes

Aug 18, 2011, 09:17 AM

;)The performance recorded may be protected, iirc. I think he's referring to the VP version, which we have permission for.

I was referring to that. Its coming along nicely: I've been pretty sick, whcih has slowed me down a bit, but at least meant that I had nothing else to do. I hope to have some stuuf up here son. When I post stuuf, of course, its just goona be a 'first draft' so to speak, so feel free to criticise it as much as necessary. I'm only here to help carry out everyone else's vision;)

Balthasar

Aug 18, 2011, 03:26 PM

I'm glad you're still working on it, Sir Sam. Sorry to hear that you weren't feeling well; I had a summer cold recently and I was miserable for two weeks. If you were sicker than that, I totally sympathize.

I'm almost done (finally) debugging the units* - it's taken better than a year, thanks to computer crashes and a series of RL crises - so about the time you finish the music, I'll be able to provide you a beta to test it with. I love it when a plan comes together....

*See the screenshots (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10310709&postcount=13) pages of the Lost Worlds Thread for evidence of progress.

Sir Sam Vimes

Aug 26, 2011, 05:02 AM

I got shingles brought on by being almost permanently on antibiotics from december 2010 to may...

at least i'm enjoying this. For some reason, steampunk always cheers me up... I've been reading China Miéville's Bas-Lag books recently and they just prove that steampunk works with absolutely anything. Gothic fantasy? Check. Vampires? Check. Sea monsters? Check. Pirates? Check. Quantum theory? Check. Espionage? Check. An emotionally-stunted philologist as a heroine? Check. and that's just The Scar...

Balthasar

Aug 26, 2011, 02:40 PM

Shingles? Ouch! Poor lad...now you really have my sympathy!

Sounds like another set of books need to be added to my library, too. ;)

Takhisis

Aug 26, 2011, 07:56 PM

Shingles as in Herpes? Yuck!

Sir Sam Vimes

Aug 31, 2011, 04:28 AM

Shingles? Ouch! Poor lad...now you really have my sympathy!

Sounds like another set of books need to be added to my library, too. ;)

Yeah. Just read all his stuff :D

He was on Radio 4 yesterday... there was a programme at 11.30 am about SF and gender

and no... shingles as in adult chickenpox, not the contagious (herpes) strain. I can count myself lucky I didn't get that!

KingArthur

Nov 20, 2011, 02:25 AM

A music link

http://io9.com/5858962/and-now-bear-mccreary-playing-battlestar-galactica-a-la-accordion

It kinda fits because it's a period(ish) instrument playing a scifi tune. Enjoy.

Balthasar

Nov 20, 2011, 08:54 PM

Good find, KA!

I personally prefer his piano version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEhlAA85_tY&feature=related

Reminds me of my own piano work, which I must post here someday, as soon as I figure out how to "midi" it in.

themanuneed

Dec 08, 2011, 04:07 AM

:bump: Sorry, I had to share this with you :D

http://img3.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.209770731.jpg

Sir Sam Vimes

Dec 08, 2011, 05:30 AM

AT LAST!

After some intervention from real life (I haven't even played Civ for 2 months, let alone modded...), I'm in a good situation music-wise! I recently aquired a high-spec notebook, pimped it out with production software and here's a teaser of what I've been working on...

This is the first wav track for the 'asian' (atlantis/underworld) culture for the ancient era. Its so short because it only plays in a loop until you build your first city, and then it appears at the start of the final, full ancient era mp3... (currently in progress...)

Nothing is mastered yet, that'll wait until all tracks both background and diplo are done so the volume levels are standardised...

And remember, these are just demos, so any constructive criticism is much appreciated :)

Balthasar

Dec 08, 2011, 06:32 AM

Lovely tune. A suggestion: mix (if you can) this sound under that one -

308767

To give it a bit of 'underwater lung' feel. Alternatively, hissing steam and echoey random clanks might conjur a 'submarine' feel.

Looking forward to more...

Sir Sam Vimes

Dec 08, 2011, 12:46 PM

Thanks for that piece of music! Its going in...

Steam fx in later eras... I reckon :)

And thanks for the encouragement: it means a lot!