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Linkman226
Mar 04, 2011, 12:30 AM
Project Synthesis

DOWNLOAD HERE- V .25 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16758)


Now in the Dawn of Civilization Subforum

The goal of this mod is to combine the greatest modmods of RFC and greatest mods of BTS into one, nice, mod. In the post below this one there is a list of items in the latest version, as well as a full change-log (not completely up to date) in the post below that.

My inspiration for this mod comes from the fact from this funny feeling I get whenever I sit down to play RFC, a RFC modmod, or other BTS mods, that if only feeling: 'Ah, if only RFC: Civilizations in Abundance has an Italian rebirth of Rome like Dawn of Civilization', 'Ah, if only RFC has the Better Global Warming mod, or the features of BUG,' and so on and so forth. I'm sure you guys have felt this sensation yourselves, especially if you're devoted fans to more than one mod.

What I wanted from you guys was assistance and feedback. Obviously to improve the mod I will require people to play it and advise me on its balance, fun level, etc.

REQUIREMENTS:

At this time the mod is English only. All requirements for regular BTS and RFC are also mandatory.

FEATURES TO BE INCLUDED:

This is basically a reference for myself of things I might want to eventually include in the mod. So have already been included; other haven't.

PLEASE NOTE THAT MANY OF THESE FEATURES ARE NOT CREATED BY ME. PLEASE DO NO ATTEMPT TO GIVE ME CREDIT FOR THEM; IN MOST CASES I HAVE POSTED A LINK TO THE ORIGINAL WORK.


The basis of the mod is RFC: Marathon. So Epic and Marathon speeds will be available.

Features from Dawn of Civilization- far too many for me to list; the core of this game is built around DoC. DoC is a modmod for RFC by Leoreth. I am instead going to redirect you to his page rather than running the risk of having his hard work be attributed to me.


Varietas Dialectat for RFC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=279708)

Inquisitor for RFC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6683515&postcount=16)

Revised CityNameManager (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10144067&postcount=163) by ScienceRules, usi, myself, and others

Revised American UP: Immigrants can bring their religion (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=338241) by Panopticon (Probability of religion spread higher for Protestantism, Catholicism, and in American cities with fewer religions.

Great General spawns (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=370610) for:

Some of the more millitaristic, quickly expanding civs with later starts get great generals. I was thinking:

Genghis Khan of Mongolia
Osman I of the Ottoman Empire
George Washington of America

To simulate wars of independence, perhaps great general and (more) unit spawns for reborn civs/ vassalized civs freeing themselves from masters, resulting in war (this one's a maybe)

Panopticon's Dynamic Terrain Mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=338752)
Merjin_v1's Second UU, UB (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=377009) (A BIG maybe)
Great Depression change(s). Ideas discussed here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344457).

From non-RFC Mods:
Orion's holy city relocation (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300619) (from his inquisition mod)
GIR's Macchu Picchu Wonder (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5901624#post5901624)
Jeckel/ Roamty More Religions Screen (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4570654&postcount=13)
Certain features from Jooyo's many, MANY modcops/ addons/ mods (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=314346)
SmeagolHeart's Renaissance project mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15362)
Better Global Warming mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11408) by MinorAnnoyance
Trojan Sheep's Super Spies Mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=259221)
Decaying resources mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=378425) by TheLopez
Tech Diffusion Mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389938) by Afforess
Watiggi's Raze City Mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4818)
Jeckel's Fort Zone of Control Mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=235183)
SpyProcess's Production to Espionage (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14743) mod
Moctezuma's Influence Driven War (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=188007) mod
Aussie Lurker's True Prophets Mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15508)
Various components of Mongoose's SDK (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325318).
snapple232's modcomp (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14780) which allows nukes only for civs that have built the Manhattan Project
abbamouse's Realistic Religions mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141585)
Custom Conquistador event art (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=319807) by Deliverator


From my own brain/ suggestions of others:

American UHV requires Empire State Building as well.
Spread of religion automatically to new cities founded by colonial powers/ minor colonial powers (see above for those two lists)
More religions (made possible by >7 religions screen above):

Sunni/ Shi'ite split (also in SoI)
Orthodoxy (also in RFC:Europe)
Hellenism (also in RFCC)
Reintro of Judaism as a minor religion like in RFCE (maybe)
Reintro of Confucianism (maybe)
Possibly paganism?

Possibly a reworking of Russian UP (thread discussing this here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=383169))
Canals

Can be built on any level, barren terrain (grasslands, plains, deserts]
Building them requires a large sum money- let's say 150 gold on grassland and plains and 300 on deserts.
Teaching AI's how to use this would be difficult with my programming skill. Help would be appreciated.

Attrition (maybe)

Causes a certain amount of damage every turn spent in enemy territory






DOWNLOAD INFORMATION

DOWNLOAD HERE- V .25 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16758)

However, it is possible to play the game prior to the next release via the usage of a tool known as the SVN. What it the SVN, you ask? Click the spoiler to find out:


SVN or Subversion is a software that provides an online repository for data which can be connected to a folder in one's Explorer. From then on, I can commit recent changes to this repository and you can update your version of it. The Synthesis repository is available HERE (https://www.assembla.com/code/projectsynthesis/subversion/nodes). The easiest way to access it under Windows is to download and install Tortoise SVN (http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/). After that, you can right-click on your Beyond the Sword\Mods\ folder and the new option "SVN Checkout" will appear. This will open a prompt where you enter Synthesis's SVN URL (https://subversion.assembla.com/svn/projectsynthesis/). This will create a new folder "Project_Synthesis" in your Mods folder. You will have to rename it to "RFC Synthesis" for the modmod to work. Afterwards, you only have to right-click on that folder and select "SVN Update" to get my most recent updates.

If you intend to use this feature, please mind that I don't guarantee stability, bug-freeness or balance of the not officially released versions. If you wish to comment on features in the SVN, please put these comments in spoilers with the spoiler name set as SVN, like this:
You put =SVN after 'Spoiler'

Linkman226
Mar 04, 2011, 12:30 AM
VERSION .25

Removed Decaying Resources (for now)
Phoenician floating unit bug fixed
Added back diplomatic victory; removed cultural victory
Added Empire State Building- +1 commerce per pop point in the city it's built in
Manhattan project now enables nukes ONLY for civs that have built the wonder themselves
This mod now has an icon/ official logo, artwork by me.
Misc. bugfixes/ text fixes



VERSION .2

Fixed the bug where certain civs somehow won the game via UHV.
In order to do that, I had to remove the Diplomatic Victory.


VERSION .1

Everything from DoC v1.71 unless otherwise indicated
Jeckel/ Roamty More Religions screen (what religions will be included is still undecided)
Plantations connect resources
Bananas spawn on Canary islands, sugar on Azores
The "colonial civs" (Portugal, Spain, England, France, Japan) get a halved stability penalty for owning cities out of their settler maps. Only out of Europe and the Mediterranean. The penalty for number of cities for them is also halved. Certain minor colonial civs (Netherlands, Vikings, Germany, Rome/ Italy, Russia) get a 1/5th stability penalty for settling out of stability maps, along with the penalty for number of cities being halved.
Decaying resources
Can now convert 100% of production to espionage in a 4:1 hammer:espionage ratio.
Can now set city production as idle (don't know why would want to, but you can)
Inquisitors/ holy city relocation
New Wonder- Witch's Hammer (Malleus Maleficarum)
NEW VICTORY TYPE: Religious victory
Revised American UP: Immigrants can now bring their religions
New resources- timber, coffee, tea, tobacco, and potatoes (preplaced only in 600AD for now; spawns in both maps)
Cities no longer remove flood plains


SCREENSHOTS:


http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8709/civ4screenshot0114.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0114.jpg/)

New religion screen (more religions are going to be added, hence the space to the right)

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8986/civ4screenshot0117.jpg (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0117.jpg/)

New resources (from RFCE)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3373/civ4screenshot0151.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0151.jpg/)

Inquisition/ holy city relocation/ religious victory settings

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1028/civ4screenshot0152.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0152.jpg/)

Flood plains under a city

Linkman226
Mar 04, 2011, 12:31 AM
Complete List of Changes from RFC

Complete List of Features (as of version .025 and latest SVN version- may be missing some DoC stuff)

The modmod is based on RFC Epic/Marathon 1.21 and therefore includes all features of RFC v1.187 for BtS unless otherwise noted.

GAME MECHANICS
# enabled Epic/Marathon speeds (RFCMarathon modmod by embryodead)
# Plague can only reduce units to 50% health, never kill them
# The Temple of Solomon spawns with Yerushalayim
# Added civ specific great people names (for all civs except Portugal, Khmer, Maya)
# Dynamic civilization names adapted to the new civics
# added a civic-specific leader switch mechanic:
# Germany and Spain switch to Hitler and Franco when fascist, respectively
# China and Russia switch to Mao and Stalin when communist, respectively
# Cixi and Nicholas II added as non-communist leaders
# Added the "rebirth" mechanism: some dead civs respawn as another civilization at a certain date (e.g. Rome as Italy), if the civ is still alive, no rebirth happens
# civilizations are more likely to collapse after a certain historical date (e.g. Rome after 476 AD)
# adapted the civic requirement mechanic for buildings and units from Sword of Islam
# all civilizations have their core areas revealed at spawn
# modified the AI to be more likely to adopt historical civics
(basically the "favourite civic" feature per civ and per era)
# added a war on spawn between Turkey and Arabia
# doubled the chance of war on spawn between Arabia and Egypt
# removed continent boundaries to help the AI
# some civilizations (Arabia, Mongolia, Turkey) fight their initial spawn wars longer
# conqueror events automatically trigger war
# AI conquerors now made to attack native cities immediately
# civilizations cannot be vassals of too far away civs until the discovery of Astronomy
# Fascist names now also with (Autocracy or Totalitarism) and no Parliament
# New total wars on spawn: Rome on Greece, Persia on Babylonia and Phoenicia
# Implemented the "birth in capital" mechanics, where certain civilization flip the city on their spawn plot on spawn (currently only used for Byzantium)
# reduced the intervals between early AI wars
# New victory type: Religious Victory
# Removed diplomatic victory
# Manhattan project now enables nukes only for civs that have built it
# Inquisitions-
1. To build an inquisitor: You must have researched Theology, have a state religion and have produced a “Holy Office” building in at least one city.

2. To use an inquisitor in a city: You must have your state religion previously established in a city and there must be at least one non-state religion established in the same city.

3. To use an inquisitor in a foreign city: The foreign civilization must have the same state religion as you, the foreign civilization must have an open borders agreement with you and the foreign city must also meet the requirements of prerequisite 2 above.
# Holy City Relocation
# Can now convert 100% of production to espionage in a 4:1 hammer:espionage ratio.
# Can now set city production as idle (don't know why would want to, but you can)
# The "colonial civs" (Portugal, Spain, England, France, Japan) get a halved stability penalty for owning cities out of their settler maps.
Only out of Europe and the Mediterranean. The penalty for number of cities for them is also halved. Certain minor colonial civs
(Netherlands, Vikings, Germany, Rome/ Italy, Russia) get a 1/5th stability penalty for settling out of stability maps, along with the penalty for number of cities being halved.
# Plantations now act like cities


BALANCE
# more Keshiks for Mongolia on spawn
# Phoenicia spawns a settler in Qart-Hadasht 820 BC (AI only)
# England receives an extra settler to make up for the lost Inverness
# lowered China's research costs in the ancient and classical era
# increased "switch civic" and "switch religion" espionage mission costs
# increased the Dutch tech speed by roughly 15%
# removed the Dutch war on spawn with the Vikings
# increase aggressiveness of Rome, Greece and Persia
# Rome starts with Mathematics and has a larger starting army
# less Barbarians in Europe before 300 AD, but more afterwards
# Rome and Greece receive research penalties from the Renaissance onward

INTERFACE
# Great people births are displayed again
# added individual "Dawn of Man" texts for each civilization
# the mouseover info box now displays tile stability in five categories:
# Core Area (dark green): no penalty, enemy cities here give a stability hit
# Historical Area (light green): no penalty
# Contested Area (yellow): no direct penalty, but indirect because this tile is part of the core of another civ
# Foreign Area (orange): penalty if number of controlled tiles exceeds a certain tolerance
# Foreign Core Area (red): like foreign area, but also indirect penalties because this tile is part of the core of another civ
# removed embassies and corporation headquarters from the wonders civilopedia
# added a message when the Roman or Mongol UPs trigger
# slave revolts are now referred to as peasant revolts
# Expanded religions screen

GRAPHICS
# China has a light yellow color now (Zulu from BtS)
# Germany has the color and coat of arms of Holy Rome
# Arabia's coat of arms changed to the shahada
# England's secondary color changed to yellow
# Byzantium's color changed to dark purple (Rome in Civ)
# Phoenicia's color changed to a lighter purple

MAP
# Moved some food resources out of Inverness' radius
# Changed peaks to hills/plains in China, Spain, Turkey, Bohemia, Cuba
# Cyprus is now a copper hill
# moved resources to make certain locations more appealing, including Oslo, Hamburg and Barcelona
# added gems in Namibia and Afghanistan
# Added ivory near Carthage and wheat near Tripolis
# changed marble in China to stone
# added improvements to many Byzantine resources in the 600 AD map
# redistributed the dye resources in the Mediterranean for Phoenicia's UHV
# removed preplaced Inverness from the map
# Sicily is excluded from the Roman spawn area
# opened up a way to reach Vinland/Newfoundland with galleys
# blocked several coast tiles for coastal sailing (cape feature)
# Cape Hoorn
# Northern Chile
# Cape of Good Hope
# around Newfoundland to deny access to the rest of America
# added swamp in Newfoundland to deny access to the rest of America
# excluded Detroit from America's spawn area
# independent Kyiv spawns in 900 AD with 2 longbowmen
# Theodosian Walls are prebuilt in Constantinople in the 600 AD scenario
# The Pantheon is prebuilt in Rome in the 600 AD scenario
# moved Massilia one tile west, Venice one tile east in the 600 AD scenario
# wine and clams spawn in Savoy in 1100 AD
# placed Adur Farnbag and a Zoroastrian temple in Sirajis in the 600 AD scenario
# removed preplaced cities from Anatolia in the 3000 BC scenario, replaced them with more Barbarian spawns
# many small terrain changes (grass to plains, plains to desert, etc.)
# added tea, coffee, tobacco, timber, and potatoes from RFC:E, along with spreading spawns at different dates
# cities no longer remove flood plains on construction
# bananas spawn on Canary islands, sugar on Azores

CIVILIZATIONS
# Updated UP for Egypt: it now enables Monarchy, Serfdom and Pantheon
# Updated UP for America: Immigrants can now bring their religions; Protestants and Catholics are more likely to do so.
# New UP for Japan: The Power of Honor - unit promotions are available 50% faster
# New UP for England: The Power of Indirect Rule - city distance maintenance halved
# New UP for Mongolia: The Power of the Horde - every captured city spawns Keshiks according to its size
# New UP for Rome: The Power of Mandate Armies - the first declaration of war against a mediterranean civ spawns an army near one of their cities
# The Vikings now spawn at Oslo instead of Nidaros/Trondheim
# The Viking dynamic civilization names now change to Sweden after the Renaissance
# The Khmer spawn with Angkor at the coast
# The Khmer are referred to as Siam after the Renaissance
# The Germans now spawn at Wien/Vienna
# The Dutch now spawn in 1500 AD with appropriate techs and an adapted UHV
# German dynamic names: "Free Socialist Republic of Germany" when communist, "German Democratic Republic" when vassal of Russia
# The Turks now spawn with 3 missionaries and 0 settlers, but get 3 settlers later with their workers
# The Mali now spawn with an Islamic missionary
# The Mali are now much more reluctant to peacefully vassalize

UHVs
# First Chinese goal requires Confucian Academies (University UB) and Taoist Pagodas
# First Dutch goal changed to: settle three merchants in Amsterdam by 1745 AD
# The Phoenician goal requires 4 dye resources
# Removed the circumnavigation goal for Greece, Phoenicia and England
# Removed the "allow no French, English and Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700" goal for Spain
# Removed the "no cities lost to Barbarians and Mongols" goal for China
# New Greek goal: control Egypt, Phoenicia, Babylonia and Persia by 330 BC
# New Phoenician goal: have the largest map of the world in 200 AD
# New English goal: have a larger navy than the following two European nations combined in 1800 AD
# New Spanish goal: have the largest empire of the world in 1760 AD
# New Chinese goal: have four golden ages by 1850 AD
# Modified Spanish goal: control Aztecs and Inca in 1700 AD

NEW CIVILIZATIONS
# Replaced Carthage with Phoenicia
# Spawn 1200 BC at Sur
# The Power of Seafaring - +50% trade route yield
# Unique Building: Glassmith (Forge): no engineer slot, +1 trade route
# Unique Unit: Bireme (Galley): +50% against Trireme, can enter rival territory
# changed version of Carthage's UHV (see "UHVs")
# added Italy as a Roman "rebirth"
# Rebirth in 1167 AD in Lombardy
# Leaderhead: Victor Emmanuel
# Coat of Arms: Lion of Mark
# distinctive city names and dynamic civ names
# own overlay maps (settler, stability, AI wars)
# Unique Unit: Bersagliere (Infantry with movement 2)
# Unique Building: Art Studio (Forge with +1 happiness from marble and dye, one artist slot)
# Unique Power: The Power of Renaissance - Every city gets a free specialist for each of its wonders
# Unique Historical Victory:
# Be the first to discover Banking, Education, Radio and Fascism
# Build three universities by 1570 AD
# Control Greece, Libya and Ethiopia in 1930 AD
# added Iran as a Persian "rebirth"
# Rebirth in 1501 AD in Esfahan
# Leaderhead: Abbas I; switches to Ruhollah Khomeini in 1900
# Coat of Arms: [currently using old Persian one]
# distinctive city names and dynamic civ names
# own overlay maps (settler, stability, AI wars)
# Unique Unit: Qizilbash (Longswordman with City Raider I, 10 less hammers than regular longswordsman,
ignores terrain cost, 1 more attack than longswordsman)
# Unique Building: Caravanserai (Market with regular market bonuses and +5% commerce from silk, cotton, horses, spice, coffee, and sugar)
# Unique Power: [NOT YET ADDED]The Power of Trade - +2 trade routes in all cities
# Unique Historical Victory: [NOT YET ADDED]
# Have Open Borders with 6 European Nations in 1650 AD
# Make Shi'ite Islam the only Religion in Iran in 1700 AD
# Found Oil Company and Spread it to 70% of the World
# added playable Byzantium
# spawn in 330 AD in Constantinople (or from the start in the 600 AD scenario)
# Leaderhead: Justinian I (removed from Rome)
# city names and overlay maps adapted from Rome and Greece
# Unique Unit: Cataphract (Knight with +2 strength)
# Unique Building: Hippodrome (Theatre with more happiness from culture and horses)
# Unique Power: The Power of Byzantine Diplomacy - every city creates +2 espionage points per culture level
# Unique Historical Victory:
# Own 5000 gold in 1000 AD
# Make Constantinople the world's largest and most cultured city in 1200 AD
# Control three cities in the Balkans, Northern Africa and the Near East in 1450 AD

UNITS
# The Greek unique unit was renamed from Phalanx to Hoplite
# The Ethiopian unique unit as renamed from Oromo Warrior to Askari
# The Viking unique unit was renamed from Berserker to Huscarl
# The Arabian unique unit, the Camel Archer, now has +25% against mounted units
# The French unique unit was changed from Musketeer to Culverin, a Cannon with +25% against gunpowder and siege units
# The German unique unit, the Panzer, now requires Oil and starts with Mobility instead of Commando
# Airships now require Combustion
# Replaced Macemen with Longswordsmen (same stats)
# New unit: Levy (strength 6, +25% against mounted units, produced with food, requires Feudalism and Vassalage)
# Knights now require Feudalism and Vassalage
# Camel Archers and Keshiks now require Feudalism, but not Vassalage
# Cataphracts still require Machinery and no Vassalage
# Longbowmen now require Guilds
# Legions now receive +25% against axemen

BUILDINGS
# Monument was renamed Pagan Temple, expires with Divine Right and gives +1 happiness with the Pantheon civic (see "civics")
# China's Pavillion was replaced with Confucian Academy, a University with +20% research, +1 happiness and a priest slot, available with Paper
# Persia's Apothecary is now called Bazaar and replaces Market
# The Viking Trading Post now also offers a merchant slot
# France's Salon is now a Theatre instead of an Observatory and as +20% great people birth
# Germany's Assembly plant now adds a free engineer instead of additional engineer slots

WONDERS
# Added special prerequisites to enforce a more historical placement of wonders
# Catholic wonders: Hagia Sophia, Sistine Chapel, Apostolic Palace, Notre Dame, Cristo Redentor, Theodosian Walls
# Muslim wonders: University of Sankore, Spiral Minaret, La Mezquita, Dome of the Rock, Topkapi Palace
# Buddhist wonders: Shwedagon Paya, Wat Preah Pisnulok
# Hinduist wonders: Taj Mahal
# Taoist wonders: Great Wall, Terracotta Army
# Classical wonders (require the Pantheon civic): Parthenon, Oracle, Colossus, Mausoleum, Statue of Zeus, Temple of Artemis, Great Library, Great Cothon*, Pantheon*, Pyramids, Sphinx*, Hanging Gardens, Ishtar Gate
# New World wonders (require Corn): Temple of Kukulkan
# wonders marked with an asterisk are renamed/added
# The Apostolic Palace requires state religion and moves the Holy City to where it is built
# The Leaning Tower was replaced with the Pantheon
# Stonehenge was replaced with the Great Sphinx
# Moai Statues were replaced with the Great Cothon
# Renamed Kremlin to St. Basil's Cathedral
# Channel Tunnel was replaced with CERN Research Complex (Fission)
# Masjid al-Haram, the Muslim shrine, now has appropriate graphics
# Added All Saint's Church as Protestant Shrine
# Added Adur Farnbag as Zoroastrian Shrine
# Added the Temple of Solomon (Monotheism): doubled shrine revenue limit)
# Added Ishtar Gate (Monarchy): +100% enemy war weariness
# Added Theodosian Walls (Construction): -100% bombard damage pre gunpowder
# Added Terracotta Army (Pottery): +50% great general rate
# Added La Mezquita (Theology): +2 research per specialist
# Added Dome of the Rock (Divine Right): -50% war weariness
# Added Topkapi Palace (Printing Press): works as government center
# Added Brandenburg Gate (Nationalism): +100% great general rate within cultural borders
# Added Westminster Palace (Industrialism): -33% hurry costs
# Added Empire State Building: +1 gold per population in the city
# Added Witches Hammmer: free state religion temple in every city
# Changed the effect of Statue of Zeus: free pagan temples
# Changed the effect of Pyramids: -33% hurry costs
# Changed the effect of the Great Sphinx: adds 5 artist slots
# Changed the effect of the Parthenon: allows all government civics
# Changed the effect of Hagia Sophia: +50% great people birth in all cities
# Changed the effect of St. Basil's Cathedral: +2 espionage per specialist
# The Parthenon now expires with Theology

LEADERHEADS
# China: added Cixi
# Egypt: added Cleopatra (Hatshepsut)
# Babylonia: renamed Gilgamesh to Sargon (of Akkad)
# India: added Akbar
# Phoenicia: added Elishat/Dido
# Japan: added Jimmu and Meiji
# Ethiopia: added Haile selassie
# Arabia: added Abu Bakr
# Vikings: added Gustav Adolph
# Spain: added Philip II
# France: added Charlemagne (Otto I removed from Germany)
# England: added Alfred the Great (Brennus)
# Germany: added Charles V
# Russia: added Yaroslav the Wise and Nicholas II
# Portugal: added Afonso Henriques and Maria II
# Turkey: added Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

RELIGION
# Reformation modmod by Panopticon
# Judaism replaced with Protestantism
# Christianity replaced with Catholicism
# Reformation triggered by the first Catholic civ to discover Printing Press
# If the player is Catholic, he is asked to convert, which yields 500 gold
# AI civilizations convert based on their historical inclination (high chance for Netherlands, low chance for Spain)
# Confucianism replaced with Zoroastrianism (founded with Monarchy, Persia spawns with it)

CIVICS
# Complete rework of the civic system (except the expansion category)
# New five categories: Government, Organization, Society, Economy, Religion
# Government:
1. Tyranny (standard)
2. Monarchy (Monarchy): +1 happiness per military unit
3. Theocracy (Theology): +2 experience and +1 happiness with state religion, no foreign religion spread
4. Autocracy (Nationalism): +2 happiness with barracks, can draft military units
5. Republic (Philosophy): +100% cottage growth, +50% great people birth
# Organization:
1. Direct Rule (standard)
2. Vassalage (Feudalism): +50% worker speed, can train Knights and Levies
3. Absolutism (Civil Service): +33% production and commerce in the capital city
4. Representation (Constitution): +3 research per specialist, +2 happiness in biggest cities
5. Parliamentarism (Democracy): +1 hammer in towns, unhappiness in all civs without Parliament
# Society:
1. Tribalism (standard)
2. Aristocracy (Code of Laws): Lower unit maintenance, +2 unit experience
3. Capitalism (Liberalism): +1 commerce in towns and villages, can spend gold to finish production, chance to trigger economic crisises
4. Totalitarianism (Fascism): +25% military unit production, -50% war weariness, +25% espionage
5. Socialism (Communism): Unlimited scientists, merchants, engineers and artists
# Economy:
1. Self-sufficiency (standard)
2. Serfdom (Masonry): can sacrifice population to finish production
3. Mercantilism (Banking): +1 free specialist, +1 commerce in cottages and workshops, no foreign trade routes, no foreign corporations, less impact of foreign economic crisises
4. State Property (Socialism): +10% production, +1 food and hammer in workshops and watermills, no number of cities maintenance, no corporations, immune to foreign economic crisises
5. Free Market (Economics): +1 trade routes, +50% trade route yield
# Religion:
1. Animism (standard)
2. Pantheon (Polytheism): +1 happiness from monument, no state religion, can build classical wonders
3. Patriarchate (Monotheism): +25% building production with state religion, missionaries without moasteries
4. State Church (Divine Right): unlimited priests, +50% great people birth with state religion
5. Secularism (Liberalism): +10% research, +1 happiness per religion, no state religion

CORPORATIONS
# Redesign of corporations:
1. Cereal Industry (GM): Wheat, Rice, Corn -> Food
2. Fishing Industry (GM): Rice, Fish, Crab, Clam -> Food
3. Oil Industry (GM): Oil -> Gold
4. Computer Industry (GS): Oil, Copper, Aluminum -> Gold & Research
5. Textile Industry (GE): Coal, Sheep, Cotton, Silk, Dye -> Gold & Production
6. Steel Industry (GE): Coal, Copper, Iron, Aluminum -> Production
7. Luxury Industry (GA): Gems, Gold, Silver -> Gold & Culture

Linkman226
Mar 04, 2011, 12:32 AM
OFFICIAL PLAYTESTERS


Playtester for W. Europe- linkman226- (America, Portugal, Spain, France, England, Netherlands, Italy)
E. Europe-Gruekiller- (Germany, Vikings, Russia)
Classical Old World- SouthernKing- (Phoenicia, Babylon, Achaemenid ("old") Persia, Egypt, Rome, Greece)
M. East-J. Pride- (Safavid ("new") Persia, Arabia, Turkey, Byzantines)
SubSahar. Africa-Yoshiegg737-(Mali, Ethiopia)
E. Asia-Debulm-(India, Mongolia, China, Khmer, Japan)
New World-hoplitejoe-(Inca, Aztec, Maya)


Credits

The very nature of this mod is that many, many people's work, ideas, and help into making this mod. There's a chance I forgot you in this credits list, so if I've used your work and you're not included, please accept my apologies and PM me so I can add you to the credits list.

Thanks to:


Sid Meier and Soren Johnson for the game
Thunderfall for the forums
Rhye for the awesome mod
Leoreth, for his awesome mod Dawn of Civilization, and the many questions of mine he was patient enough to answer.
Baldyr, for helping me with the python of the mod.
Asaf, for his help with C++ and his guide to compiling the DLL, as well as his gamefont.tga editor.
Jarkov, for his guide to adding civs to RFC
LunarMongoose for the fix in his Mongoose SDK that stops the removal of flood plains when cities are founded on them
Jeckel and Roamty for their More Religions screen
EmbryoDead for RFC: Marathon/ Epic (imported via DoC), SoI, which I got much fun out of while waiting for my DLL to compile, and for pieces of code adapted into this mod such as:

Civics requirement mechanic (imported via DoC)
Conditional spawns (imported via DoC)
UHV progress meter (imported via DoC)
Safavid art- Caravanserai, Abbas I LH


3Miro for RFC:E, which I also played while waiting for the DLL to compile, and also for the resources potatoes, tea, coffee, tobacco, and timber (imported via RFCM:BWS)

JediClemente for the features adapted from RFCM:BWS

Panopticon for his Dynamic Terrain mod and American immigrants can bring religion modcomp

Orion's Inquisition and Holy City relocation modcomp

Moctezuma for Influence Driven War

Jooyo for Espionage Process (which inspired the Idle City Process)

Danrell and Bakuel for their Qizilbash art

All the posters in this thread and players of this mod, but special thanks to:


J. Pride for his prolific posting and suggestions, especially with the Middle East
Gruekiller, SouthernKing, Yoshiegg737, Hoplitejoe, and Tyo for particularly involved posting, and stories in the S&T forum, indirectly advertising this mod.

Leoreth
Mar 04, 2011, 04:06 AM
Ambitious. If you have any questions regarding DoC, feel free to ask.

Wessel V1
Mar 04, 2011, 04:52 AM
Is it going to be based on the latest version of RFC:Marathon?

great.taurus
Mar 04, 2011, 06:32 AM
Fantastic idea - I eagerly await it's completion :D

srpt
Mar 04, 2011, 07:55 AM
I agree great idea.

hoplitejoe
Mar 04, 2011, 03:49 PM
please have dot maps, they help noobs like me

Krug
Mar 04, 2011, 08:10 PM
Oh my god yes. I've wanted to do something like this for a really long time now, if you need help, simply ask.

But can I ask what Mods we're considering here so far?

Linkman226
Mar 04, 2011, 08:46 PM
Guys the original post is being edited frequently. I'm adding stuff from mods constantly, because there's a lot of sources I'm drawing from, and it will take a lot of time, so every now and then I save it so you guys can see my work. Check back periodically.

Krug
Mar 04, 2011, 08:59 PM
Guys the original post is being edited frequently. I'm adding stuff from mods constantly, because there's a lot of sources I'm drawing from, and it will take a lot of time, so every now and then I save it so you guys can see my work. Check back periodically.

Heck yes, this looks amazingly awesome. I'm a history buff, so when it comes to New/Rebirth Civs and their Spawning/UHVs/UUs I can help you out as much as I can.

Linkman226
Mar 04, 2011, 09:55 PM
Heck yes, this looks amazingly awesome. I'm a history buff, so when it comes to New/Rebirth Civs and their Spawning/UHVs/UUs I can help you out as much as I can.

Excellent, thanks a bunch.

JiimBV
Mar 04, 2011, 10:17 PM
Wow... this is awesome. Truly, truly awesome. Thank you, good sir, for taking on such a grand project.


Carthage as Tunisia
Persia as Iran
Babylon as Iraq
Aztec as Mexico
Inca as Peru

Persia's rebirth as Iran.. they would start as the Safavids, correct? Not modern Iran? The Safavid dynasty would be the most appropriate rebirth for Persia. India could do with a Mughal rebirth, and if they change from Islam to either Hindu or Free Religion their dynamic name could change to reflect a modern India.

My biggest beef is the Carthage rebirth as Tunisia is they would make a far better Moorish rebirth, as al-Andalus. Tunisia itself didn't gain independence until the 50s. Al-Andalus would be harder to pull off of course (requiring the mixing up of Iberia in its entirety) but it would yield far greater results than Tunisia.

I also believe that the Incas would make for a better Argentinian rebirth, even though they are in slightly different parts of the world. Argentina was a far more economically powerful nation (being the second wealthiest in the world in the 1900s for a while, behind the US) as well as being a bigger player in global politics. We COULD just add Argentina as a nation, and have Peru as the rebirth, but the more nations there are the slower the game gets. The western Southern American nations (Peru, Chile, Ecuador, Columbia) could easily be represented by colonies of the Conquistador nation or as independents.

So my perfect list of rebirths would be:

Rome as Italy
Carthage as al-Andalus
Persia as the Safavid Empire
Babylon as modern Iraq (Abbasid and Mamluk don't make all too much sense, though Mamluk makes more sense)
India as the Mughal Empire
Aztec as Mexico
Inca as Argentina
Vikings as Sweden (I know their dynamic name already changes to that, but the Vikings, with their capital in OSLO, are very different from Sweden)

Of course, not all these rebirths would take place every 600AD game, only Italy, al-Andalus, Safavid, Mughal and Iraq would. Argentina, Mexico and Sweden would depend upon the collapses of their "mother" nation (though the likelihood of collapse should increase, really). In 3000BC games... fewer of these would take place.

Other changes I would include would be splitting the HRE and Germany, upping the militaristic power and aggressiveness of Arabia and rebalancing Italy and the Byzantines, both of which I find too strong at the moment. For Arabia, perhaps give the AI Arabia Camel Archers throughout the Middle East to encourage early and rapid expansion, as well as weakening the military prowess of the Byzantines. Also, give them fewer Settlers, at the beginning they don't need a bunch of useless desert cities dragging down their economy.

Late HRE could be dynamic-name-changed to Austria or Austria-Hungary. That would be rather nice.

As for extra nations on top of the rebirth ones previously mentioned, the list would be:

1. Korea (far above the rest)
2. Zulu/South Africa
3s. Canada, Brazil, Australia
4. Prussia OR Poland (I don't find this as urgent as others seem to, I think a strong independent or a minor civ would do, especially with a split HRE and Germany)

EDIT: I just want you to know, these are simply suggestions, haha. If you ignored all of them, I would still love you for taking the time to start such a grand project.

Krug
Mar 04, 2011, 10:23 PM
Rome as Italy
Carthage as al-Andalus
Persia as the Safavid Empire
Babylon as modern Iraq (Abbasid and Mamluk don't make all too much sense, though Mamluk makes more sense)
India as the Mughal Empire
Aztec as Mexico
Inca as Argentina
Vikings as Sweden (I know their dynamic name already changes to that, but the Vikings, with their capital in OSLO, are very different from Sweden)
)

Why Carthage as Al-Andalus? I think Carthage spawning as the Almohads would be much more in line, seeing as they controlled Tunis as some point. Al-Andalus only had control up to Morocco. Also how about Babylon as the Timurids?

Either way, I'll start up a New Civ form for planning new nations tomorrow.

JiimBV
Mar 04, 2011, 10:39 PM
Why Carthage as Al-Andalus? I think Carthage spawning as the Almohads would be much more in line, seeing as they controlled Tunis as some point. Al-Andalus only had control up to Morocco. Also how about Babylon as the Timurids?

Either way, I'll start up a New Civ form for planning new nations tomorrow.

For the same reason I suggested Argentina as opposed to Peru; however, looking at their respective Wikipedia pages (I'm less of a history buff than you, Mr. Krug, though for my mere age of 15 I'm far more history-buffy than anyone else I know), I think their difference in terms of gameplay, significance, longevity, etc. is minimal enough it would make little difference either way. However, the Almohads' base in Africa is stronger than al-Andalus', and they DO have control of Tunis. I think you may be right, good sir. I think, I think, I think, of course... :crazyeye:

Linkman226
Mar 04, 2011, 10:46 PM
Wow... this is awesome. Truly, truly awesome. Thank you, good sir, for taking on such a grand project.

Haha, you're welcome.

Persia's rebirth as Iran.. they would start as the Safavids, correct? Not modern Iran? The Safavid dynasty would be the most appropriate rebirth for Persia.

Yes.

India could do with a Mughal rebirth, and if they change from Islam to either Hindu or Free Religion their dynamic name could change to reflect a modern India.

The Mughals were a different civilization, barbarian invaders as far as I'm concerned. Maybe a barbarian wave could be scripted (with Islamic missionaries). I agree with the dynamic name change thing though.

My biggest beef is the Carthage rebirth as Tunisia is they would make a far better Moorish rebirth, as al-Andalus. Tunisia itself didn't gain independence until the 50s. Al-Andalus would be harder to pull off of course (requiring the mixing up of Iberia in its entirety) but it would yield far greater results than Tunisia.

Meh. Carthage->Tunisia is a stretch in and of itself. Carthage->al-Andalus is too much of a stretch. And that'll mess up the Portugal-Spain dynamic.

Actually, since I'm using Phoenicia, not Carthage, I might do a Phoenicia-> Lebanon rebirth. Although Lebanon is kinda insignificant, so I might just make this a dynamic name change.

I also believe that the Incas would make for a better Argentinian rebirth, even though they are in slightly different parts of the world. Argentina was a far more economically powerful nation (being the second wealthiest in the world in the 1900s for a while, behind the US) as well as being a bigger player in global politics. We COULD just add Argentina as a nation, and have Peru as the rebirth, but the more nations there are the slower the game gets.

Maybe... I'd have to make it so when they're reborn they start in Buenos Aires (they'd have to flip that city on spawn if someone controls it).

If there's one new Latin American country I'd add, it'd be Brazil, but as a minor civ with conditional spawn. Depends, I'll have to see speed and what not.

The western Southern American nations (Peru, Chile, Ecuador, Columbia) could easily be represented by colonies of the Conquistador nation or as independents.

Indies or minors works. If we even implement this. Balance testing will be necessary.

Vikings as Sweden [/B] (I know their dynamic name already changes to that, but the Vikings, with their capital in OSLO, are very different from Sweden)

This is feasible.

Of course, not all these rebirths would take place every 600AD game, only Italy, al-Andalus, Safavid, Mughal and Iraq would. Argentina, Mexico and Sweden would depend upon the collapses of their "mother" nation (though the likelihood of collapse should increase, really). In 3000BC games... fewer of these would take place.

Right.

Other changes I would include would be splitting the HRE and Germany, upping the militaristic power and aggressiveness of Arabia and rebalancing Italy and the Byzantines, both of which I find too strong at the moment. For Arabia, perhaps give the AI Arabia Camel Archers throughout the Middle East to encourage early and rapid expansion, as well as weakening the military prowess of the Byzantines. Also, give them fewer Settlers, at the beginning they don't need a bunch of useless desert cities dragging down their economy.

All things Leoreth is contemplating for DoC which I will probably do too.

Late HRE could be dynamic-name-changed to Austria or Austria-Hungary. That would be rather nice.

Yup. I suggested this on the DoC forums.

As for extra nations on top of the rebirth ones previously mentioned, the list would be:

1. Korea (far above the rest)
2. Zulu/South Africa
3s. Canada, Brazil, Australia
4. Prussia OR Poland (I don't find this as urgent as others seem to, I think a strong independent or a minor civ would do, especially with a split HRE and Germany)


First two are in RFC: Civilizations in Abundance which I plan on incorporating. Balancing, especially of speed, would be necessary.

EDIT: I just want you to know, these are simply suggestions, haha. If you ignored all of them, I would still love you for taking the time to start such a grand project.

Didn't ignore them, as you cans see ;)

Why Carthage as Al-Andalus? I think Carthage spawning as the Almohads would be much more in line, seeing as they controlled Tunis as some point. Al-Andalus only had control up to Moorocco. Also how about Babylon as the Timurids?

Either way, I'll start up a New Civ form for planning new nations tomorrow.

Those respawns are too much of a stretch... maybe, would have to think about it.

Krug
Mar 04, 2011, 10:59 PM
While Babylon->Timurid is a bit of a Stretch, I agree. I think that if you count Carthage as Carthage then the way to go are the Almohads for the respawn methinks, their Territory was quite respectable, so they weren't some small time empire.

As far as a Phonecia Respawn goes...wait for it...

ISRAEL
Yes, what contry would be more fun to play as than Israel? I don't care if Judaism isn't in DoC it needs to be put back in just so I can finally do an Israel run and conquer the entire Arabian Peninsula. They're an important nation, with a lot of power, and is in the Phonecian-ish area. Okay is it a stretch? Yes. But is it the best Stretch? HECK YES

Linkman226
Mar 04, 2011, 11:16 PM
While Babylon->Timurid is a bit of a Stretch, I agree. I think that if you count Carthage as Carthage then the way to go are the Almohads for the respawn methinks, their Territory was quite respectable, so they weren't some small time empire.

As far as a Phonecia Respawn goes...wait for it...

ISRAEL
Yes, what contry would be more fun to play as than Israel? I don't care if Judaism isn't in DoC it needs to be put back in just so I can finally do an Israel run and conquer the entire Arabian Peninsula. They're an important nation, with a lot of power, and is in the Phonecian-ish area. Okay is it a stretch? Yes. But is it the best Stretch? HECK YES

When I'm done with this mod I might consider doing that. (I'm an anti-Zionist by the way :mischief::mischief:)

Oh, and as for the Almohads... MAYBE. But it is a stretch. Let's just say this: if slowness is a problem, they're the first being tossed aside.

Krug
Mar 04, 2011, 11:21 PM
When I'm done with this mod I might consider doing that. (I'm an anti-Zionist by the way :mischief::mischief:)
(I'm an anti-Zionist by the way :mischief::mischief:)
an anti-Zionist by the way
an anti-Zionist

WHAT NO WAY AM I GOING TO WORK ON THIS MO-Well, so long as we stray from the topics of Politics and Religion we should be good.

Alright, either way, I'll get a little mini-form for each new civ and their UU/UB/UP/UHV up tomorrow.

Linkman226
Mar 04, 2011, 11:27 PM
WHAT NO WAY AM I GOING TO WORK ON THIS MO-Well, so long as we stray from the topics of Politics and Religion we should be good.

Alright, either way, I'll get a little mini-form for each new civ and their UU/UB/UP/UHV up tomorrow.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

As they say, never bring up politics and religion at polite conversations (or amongst friends... or relatives... or almost anyone if you avoid it)

Cool, thanks for the help!

And I've updated the original post with some more stuff. Check periodically, as I said.


EDIT: Oh, and concerning Israel, I might put it in a "fun-pack" mod that will also feature Rhyeism (http://rhye.civfanatics.net/wiki/index.php?title=Rhyeism) as a religion:

Our Rhye, which art in Italy,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Website come.
Thy will be done,
online as it is in RFC.
Give us this day our daily BTS info.
And forgive us our pesterings,
As we forgive them that pester against us.
And lead us not into temptation;
But deliver us from boredom.
Amen.

JiimBV
Mar 05, 2011, 12:27 AM
I would defend the Mughal Empire as a reasonable rebirth; however, I realized that India needs space for colonization. I think a normal respawn OR a rebirth as the (British/Portuguese/Whatever) Raj -> modern India would work. Let me explain.

The Raj would be a unique playable nation, as it would spawn in 1860 as a vassal to the most prominent nation in India, be it Portugal, Britain, the Netherlands, France or even Iran or Khmer. It would spawn over Delhi and Mumbai and be given one city of its masters' within India. The Raj would have to meet the demands of its master and fight the wars of its master, and would be unable to declare independence. Then in the 20s-30s, the Raj would declare independence automatically (lacks a certain truthiness, I know) and declare war upon its owner state. Along with this date, the name would change, the leader would change to Gandhi (or it would be Gandhi the whole time, it depends on leaderhead availability), and two great people would spawn: Great Artist Rabindranath Tagore and Great General Subash Chandra Bose.

UHV:
1. Control the Indian subcontinent by 1950
2. Have 1 billion people in 1990 OR Be the most populous country in 1990
3. Have the highest score in 2000

That'd be PRETTY AWESOME. You can't deny. Also, should I be suggesting all these things on DoC rather than here? xD

J. pride
Mar 05, 2011, 12:32 AM
Define the Indian subcontinent

JiimBV
Mar 05, 2011, 12:35 AM
Between the mountain/swamp-line to the west and the two jungle square between mountains and ocean to the east?

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 12:37 AM
I would defend the Mughal Empire as a reasonable rebirth; however, I realized that India needs space for colonization. I think a normal respawn OR a rebirth as the (British/Portuguese/Whatever) Raj -> modern India would work. Let me explain.

The Raj would be a unique playable nation, as it would spawn in 1860 as a vassal to the most prominent nation in India, be it Portugal, Britain, the Netherlands, France or even Iran or Khmer. It would spawn over Delhi and Mumbai and be given one city of its masters' within India. The Raj would have to meet the demands of its master and fight the wars of its master, and would be unable to declare independence. Then in the 20s-30s, the Raj would declare independence automatically (lacks a certain truthiness, I know) and declare war upon its owner state. Along with this date, the name would change, the leader would change to Gandhi (or it would be Gandhi the whole time, it depends on leaderhead availability), and two great people would spawn: Great Artist Rabindranath Tagore and Great General Subash Chandra Bose.

UHV:
1. Control the Indian subcontinent by 1950
2. Have 1 billion people in 1990 OR Be the most populous country in 1990
3. Have the highest score in 2000

That'd be PRETTY AWESOME. You can't deny. Also, should I be suggesting all these things on DoC rather than here? xD

Possibly, but know this would be a side-project. Other things are of greater importance.

I may be wrong here but on DoC this would take even less importance. Leoreth's got a lot of stuff on his plate.

Define the Indian subcontinent

We'd give it some set of coordinates. Easy enough. this certainly works:


Between the mountain/swamp-line to the west and the two jungle square between mountains and ocean to the east?

JiimBV
Mar 05, 2011, 12:49 AM
Well. Tell me of anything unrelated to modding I could do to help you and I would be willing to do it.

J. pride
Mar 05, 2011, 01:09 AM
How about it starts one tile East of the Indus and ends to where the South East Asia starts. This leaves room for the Muslims (Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan) around and west of Indus. And to the east it stops where south east asia starts to dip

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 01:12 AM
How about it starts one tile East of the Indus and ends to where the South East Asia starts. This leaves room for the Muslims (Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan) around and west of Indus. And to the east it stops where south east asia starts to dip

Sure.


But we're focusing on minutia here. There's more important stuff.

J. pride
Mar 05, 2011, 01:14 AM
are u changing the spawn locations for china and India in ur mod; that would be best since since u could modifiy as u see fit

merijn_v1
Mar 05, 2011, 05:42 AM
Another possible nice addition ;)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=377009

SanePerson
Mar 05, 2011, 09:24 AM
Brazil is worthy of adding, but as a Portuguese respawn (our map isn't large enough to really accommodate two civs in Iberia, let alone three).

Krug
Mar 05, 2011, 09:57 AM
Name: Safavids/Qajar/Iran
Leaders: (Ismāil I|Until 1742)(1742–1941: Mohammad Khan Qajar)(1941-:Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi)(If Government is Theocratic: Ruhollah Khomeini)
Leader Traits:
UU: Qizilbash (Rifleman, Starts with City Raider I)
UB: Caravanserai (Market with +30% :gold: +10% :culture:)
UP:
UHV:- Ensure Baghdad, Kabul, and Samarkand are 100% Persian in 1700 AD
- Make Islam the only Religion in Iran in 1750 AD
- Control all of The Arabian Peninsula, Jerusalem, and Anatolia in 1945 AD
Preferred Civic: (Shahs- Absolutism, Khomenini- Theocracy Equivilent)
Start: 1501 AD
End: N/A
-------------------------------
While I know it's supposed to be the Safavids, I incoroporated the Qajars and late Iran in this too for longevity's sake. UP and Traits have not been added because I'm lazy. I'm not sure if the Qizilbash ever used guns, but it wouldn't make much since, and they would have much of a use, if they we're made Maces or Pikes.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 10:17 AM
are u changing the spawn locations for china and India in ur mod; that would be best since since u could modifiy as u see fit

Yes, probably. However Indian and Chinese respawns will spawn in different locations. For example, for India the original location may be Pataliputra, but medieval or later rebirth would be in Delhi.

Another possible nice addition ;)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=377009

I'll consider it, although this seems a tad too kitchen-sink-mod-like.

Brazil is worthy of adding, but as a Portuguese respawn (our map isn't large enough to really accommodate two civs in Iberia, let alone three).

Possibly. And yes I agree, Iberia's too crowded as it is.

Name: Safavids/Qajar/Iran
Leader: (Ismāil I|Until 1742)(1742–1941: Mohammad Khan Qajar)(1941-:Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi)(If Government is Theocratic: Ruhollah Khomeini)
Leader Traits:
UU: Qizilbash (Musketman, Starts with City Raider I)
UB: Caravanserai (Market with +30% :gold: +10% :culture:)
UP:
UHV:- Ensure Baghdad, Kabul, and Samarkand are 100% Persian in 1700 AD
- Make Islam the only Religion in Iran in 1750 AD
- Control all of The Arabian Peninsula, Jerusalem, and Anatolia in 1945 AD
Preferred Civic: (Shahs- Absolutism, Khomenini- Theocracy Equivilent)
Start: 1501 AD
End: N/A
-------------------------------
While I know it's supposed to be the Safavids, I incoroporated the Qajars and late Iran in this too for longevity's sake. UP and Traits have not been added because I'm lazy. I'm not sure if the Qizilbash ever used guns, but it wouldn't make much since, and they would have much of a use, if they we're made Maces or Pikes.

As for the name, the default name would be Iran, but Qajar/ Safavids could be incorporated into the dynamic name changes.
As for the UU, the musketman is largely outdated/ about to become outdated by 1500.
As for the second UHV, this would put to use the Inquisitor unit for once. Nice. Although it might be too easy considering that Arabia's UP in DoC, which I'm porting over, is that it spreads Islam to conquered cities AND removes any other religions.

Krug
Mar 05, 2011, 10:43 AM
As for the name, the default name would be Iran, but Qajar/ Safavids could be incorporated into the dynamic name changes.
As for the UU, the musketman is largely outdated/ about to become outdated by 1500.
As for the second UHV, this would put to use the Inquisitor unit for once. Nice. Although it might be too easy considering that Arabia's UP in DoC, which I'm porting over, is that it spreads Islam to conquered cities AND removes any other religions.

Musketmen oudated in the 1500s? Really? Most of the time I don't see Rifles cropping up until the late 1600s/early 1700s. But if you say so, I'll change it to Riflemen.
Also, the Arab UP should probably be changed to eliminating only Christianity, as Jews and Muslims were actually close-ish allies up until the 1600s, and I don't know of any mass Islamic Conversions performed on Hindus/Buddhists, even by Timur. I could easily be wrong though.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 10:47 AM
Musketmen oudated in the 1500s? Really? Most of the time I don't see Rifles cropping up until the late 1600s/early 1700s. But if you say so, I'll change it to Riflemen.

I assume you play DoC, right? In a recent game the Italians had Bersagliere (infantry replacement) in 1700, and rifles since the 1500s.

Also, the Arab UP should probably be changed to eliminating only Christianity, as Jews and Muslims were actually close-ish allies up until the 1600s, and I don't know of any mass Islamic Conversions performed on Hindus/Buddhists, even by Timur. I could easily be wrong though.

Conversion by the sword, if you get my drift. There wouldn't be nearly as many Muslims in India, and Afghanistan would still be Hindu/ Buddhist if it weren't for the damned Mughals, Timurids, etc.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 10:54 AM
Well. Tell me of anything unrelated to modding I could do to help you and I would be willing to do it.

Could you find me a list of Mayan, Portuguese, Ethiopian, and Khmer GP's? Thanks.

Krug
Mar 05, 2011, 10:58 AM
I assume you play DoC, right? In a recent game the Italians had Bersagliere (infantry replacement) in 1700, and rifles since the 1500s.

Woah, really? Alright then, Riflemen it is.


Conversion by the sword, if you get my drift. There wouldn't be nearly as many Muslims in India, and Afghanistan would still be Hindu/ Buddhist if it weren't for the damned Mughals, Timurids, etc.

Hm, I understand. Fair enough then. We may want to think about incorporating both Sunni and Shia similar to Catholic and Protestant. As UHV2 is supposed to symbolize the forced conversion of all Non-Shias in Persia.

Nonetheless, I'll work on a new UHV2.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 11:03 AM
Woah, really? Alright then, Riflemen it is.

Hm, I understand. Fair enough then. We may want to think about incorporating both Sunni and Shia similar to Catholic and Protestant. As UHV2 is supposed to symbolize the forced conversion of all Non-Shias in Persia.

Nonetheless, I'll work on a new UHV2.

Fitting another religion probably involves changing something in the dll, something that'd take more time. Think of a new UHV 2 for now, but I'm not barring adding a Sunni/ Shi'ite split sometime in the near future.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 12:35 PM
Guys, good news! I've managed to change the religion screen so we can fit more religions! Which ones do would you guys suggest?

A look at the new screen:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8709/civ4screenshot0114.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0114.jpg/)

Some of the text blurs is jumbled up a bit but that should be easily fixable. This can support up to 19 religions by the way but I'd rather not have that many if I can avoid it. 10 or less is optimal.

hoplitejoe
Mar 05, 2011, 01:37 PM
Orthodoxy should be added and Judaism and Confucianism should be reinstated. maybe some sort of northern European Wicca thing could be added? or something representing the Aztec/Mayan beliefs?

merijn_v1
Mar 05, 2011, 01:42 PM
Maybe one of the JARM (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10354) religions is good.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 01:56 PM
Orthodoxy should be added and Judaism and Confucianism should be reinstated. maybe some sort of northern European Wicca thing could be added? or something representing the Aztec/Mayan beliefs?

Maybe one of the JARM (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10354) religions is good.

I'll probably reinstate Judaism and Confucianism, although the former will be a minor religion that spreads randomly like in RFCE:E. I'll probably also add the Sunni/ Shi'ite split.

Anyone have any ideas on what tech would cause the Islam split?

EDIT: Or better, perhaps an automatic prescripted split in 632?

hoplitejoe
Mar 05, 2011, 02:18 PM
if you have lots of religons make sure the diplo penalty's aren't all over harsh or trade will be almost impossible around the middle ages.

need my speed
Mar 05, 2011, 02:32 PM
Or better, make the AI smarter. For example, England is Buddhist and has 1 Buddhist city and 1 Islam city. Everyone in Europe however, is Islam.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 03:54 PM
Great news guys! I've just finished porting over potatoes, tea, coffee, tobacco, and timber from RFC:E (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=363679)(also in RFCM:BWS (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=382042)). Some screenies:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5711/civ4screenshot0116.jpg (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0116.jpg/)

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8986/civ4screenshot0117.jpg (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0117.jpg/)

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7761/civ4screenshot0118.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0118.jpg/)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5208/civ4screenshot0119.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0119.jpg/)

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8694/civ4screenshot0120.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0120.jpg/)

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/417/civ4screenshot0121a.jpg (http://img836.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0121a.jpg/)

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/427/civ4screenshot0122.jpg (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0122.jpg/)

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6264/civ4screenshot0123.jpg (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0123.jpg/)

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8310/civ4screenshot0124.jpg (http://img824.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0124.jpg/)
if you have lots of religons make sure the diplo penalty's aren't all over harsh or trade will be almost impossible around the middle ages.

The plan is this:

Sunni and Shi'ite leaders get a penalty, but it's halved.
Orthodox leaders get a bonus with Catholics and Protestants, but its halved.
Confucians, Taoists, and Buddhists get a bonus with each other, but it's halved.
Hindus and Buddhists get a quartered bonus.
Hindus, Confucians, and Taoists get a quartered penalty.
Catholics and Prots. get a halved penalty (not a full penalty, like in DoC)
I may also have a 'pagan' religion to reprsent a lot of the other stuff... but pagan leaders will actually get a small negative penalty against each other because the various pagan religions of the world are different. Paganism won't have a holy city either.

Or better, make the AI smarter. For example, England is Buddhist and has 1 Buddhist city and 1 Islam city. Everyone in Europe however, is Islam.

Would require coding skill I currently lack, but sure, in the future.

EDIT: A note on timber: I'll probably change the improvement needed to access it (so that it's available earlier), and make it so that it hurries certain wonders. Also, I'll probably make it so that chopping the timber tile will result in losing the timber.

civ_king
Mar 05, 2011, 06:07 PM
I would defend the Mughal Empire as a reasonable rebirth; however, I realized that India needs space for colonization. I think a normal respawn OR a rebirth as the (British/Portuguese/Whatever) Raj -> modern India would work. Let me explain.

The Raj would be a unique playable nation, as it would spawn in 1860 as a vassal to the most prominent nation in India, be it Portugal, Britain, the Netherlands, France or even Iran or Khmer. It would spawn over Delhi and Mumbai and be given one city of its masters' within India. The Raj would have to meet the demands of its master and fight the wars of its master, and would be unable to declare independence. Then in the 20s-30s, the Raj would declare independence automatically (lacks a certain truthiness, I know) and declare war upon its owner state. Along with this date, the name would change, the leader would change to Gandhi (or it would be Gandhi the whole time, it depends on leaderhead availability), and two great people would spawn: Great Artist Rabindranath Tagore and Great General Subash Chandra Bose.

UHV:
1. Control the Indian subcontinent by 1950
2. Have 1 billion people in 1990 OR Be the most populous country in 1990
3. Have the highest score in 2000

That'd be PRETTY AWESOME. You can't deny. Also, should I be suggesting all these things on DoC rather than here? xD
Why not have it represent South Asia?
Name: Safavids/Qajar/Iran
Leaders: (Ismāil I|Until 1742)(1742–1941: Mohammad Khan Qajar)(1941-:Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi)(If Government is Theocratic: Ruhollah Khomeini)
Leader Traits:
UU: Qizilbash (Rifleman, Starts with City Raider I)
UB: Caravanserai (Market with +30% :gold: +10% :culture:)
UP:
UHV:- Ensure Baghdad, Kabul, and Samarkand are 100% Persian in 1700 AD
- Make Islam the only Religion in Iran in 1750 AD
- Control all of The Arabian Peninsula, Jerusalem, and Anatolia in 1945 AD
Preferred Civic: (Shahs- Absolutism, Khomenini- Theocracy Equivilent)
Start: 1501 AD
End: N/A
-------------------------------
While I know it's supposed to be the Safavids, I incoroporated the Qajars and late Iran in this too for longevity's sake. UP and Traits have not been added because I'm lazy. I'm not sure if the Qizilbash ever used guns, but it wouldn't make much since, and they would have much of a use, if they we're made Maces or Pikes.
UHV1 can't work because there is no way to get rid of independent culture except through spawn culture.
Orthodoxy should be added and Judaism and Confucianism should be reinstated. maybe some sort of northern European Wicca thing could be added? or something representing the Aztec/Mayan beliefs?
Why would you implement 20th century Neopaganism? (Wicca)
Great news guys! I've just finished porting over potatoes, tea, coffee, tobacco, and timber from RFC:E (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=363679)(also in RFCM:BWS (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=382042)). Some screenies:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5711/civ4screenshot0116.jpg (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0116.jpg/)

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8986/civ4screenshot0117.jpg (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0117.jpg/)

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7761/civ4screenshot0118.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0118.jpg/)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5208/civ4screenshot0119.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0119.jpg/)

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8694/civ4screenshot0120.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0120.jpg/)

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/417/civ4screenshot0121a.jpg (http://img836.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0121a.jpg/)

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/427/civ4screenshot0122.jpg (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0122.jpg/)

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6264/civ4screenshot0123.jpg (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0123.jpg/)

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8310/civ4screenshot0124.jpg (http://img824.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0124.jpg/)


The plan is this:

Sunni and Shi'ite leaders get a penalty, but it's halved.
Orthodox leaders get a bonus with Catholics and Protestants, but its halved.
Confucians, Taoists, and Buddhists get a bonus with each other, but it's halved.
Hindus and Buddhists get a quartered bonus.
Hindus, Confucians, and Taoists get a quartered penalty.
Catholics and Prots. get a halved penalty (not a full penalty, like in DoC)
I may also have a 'pagan' religion to reprsent a lot of the other stuff... but pagan leaders will actually get a small negative penalty against each other because the various pagan religions of the world are different. Paganism won't have a holy city either.



Would require coding skill I currently lack, but sure, in the future.

EDIT: A note on timber: I'll probably change the improvement needed to access it (so that it's available earlier), and make it so that it hurries certain wonders. Also, I'll probably make it so that chopping the timber tile will result in losing the timber.
Capital!

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 06:48 PM
Why not have it represent South Asia?

India already kinda represents all of S. Asia

UHV1 can't work because there is no way to get rid of independent culture except through spawn culture.

Really? I was unaware of this... I thought that Indie culture just went away over time just like regular foreign culture.

Why would you implement 20th century Neopaganism? (Wicca)

Lol that's what I was thinking too. Unless he means earlier pagan religions.

Capital!

I presume, by your word choice, you're referring to the introduction of tea :p?

Oh, and on another note, I was thinking that 'Atheism' might be a possible 'religion' to implement. Founded via scientific method, no holy shrine, no buildings, no anything special EXCEPT that it slowly causes religions in cities to die. I personally am not too sure if it would be a good addition however. Opinions?

Also, when would you like the release to be? I was thinking the eleventh would be good.

J. pride
Mar 05, 2011, 06:54 PM
Conversion by the sword, if you get my drift. There wouldn't be nearly as many Muslims in India, and Afghanistan would still be Hindu/ Buddhist if it weren't for the damned Mughals, Timurids, etc.

I sense a bit of a bias here. Anyways muslims only constitute 13% of India (maybe 15 to 17% if u include Bangladesh and Nepal). Percentage wise thats the same as Russia (12%) and a bit more than France (9%). Proportionally, Muslims only constitute a sight minority in India. Maybe You can include Islam (in addition to Hinduism) in one Indian city (perhaps one in a region with a large Muslim minority).

NOW here's where i strongly disagree with you. Afghanistan has a totally different culture/language/ people than India. The Mughals were from Afghanistan and the Timurid capital was in Herat, Afghanistan. The religion of Afghanistan depended on its rulers, as this small chronography will display.
1) The Achaemenid Empire conquers Afghanistan and the chief religion is Zoroastrianism. Note many historians believe Zoroaster was born in either Arachosia, Sistan-Balochistan or Bactria. (Region within or in close proximity to Afghanistan and even Pakistan.
2) Alexander conquers Afghanistan (everything west of Indus) and Hellenism is mixed with local religions.
3) Mauryan conquer Afghanistan and Pakistan and spread Buddhism to the region.
4) The Persian Parthians, Kushans and Sassanids conquer Afghanistan (and Pakistan) and Zoroastrianism and Hellenized Buddhism become the main religions of the region.
5) The Arabs conquer the region and Islam replaces Buddhism and Zoroastarianism as the main religion.

As you can see Afghanistan was a region with many different religion and buddhism was just one of them. And i really dont see the difference between arabs conquering and spreading their relgion vs the Mauryan Indian conquering the region and spreading their religion. Although, I agree with Islam being spread to India by force (somewhat).

You can show Afghanistan's religious diversity on the map by spawning a Taxila with Zoroastarianism and Buddhism (not hinduism). The spawn would have to after the spawn of Persia since Zoroastrianism isnt founded before this

JiimBV
Mar 05, 2011, 07:01 PM
Why not have it represent South Asia?

Um, because South Asia isn't a civilization? I'm not sure I understand the question.

Linkman, the nations you've given me don't have civ-specific Great People lists yet, as the two mods that included this feature stopped updating before Beyond the Sword came out. However, I did spend a little while trying to find Ethiopian ones, and this is what I've come up with:

Great Artists:
-Tsegaye Gabre-Medhin
-Afewerk Tekle
-Alexander Boghossian
-Adamu Tesfaw
-Gebre Kristos Desta

Great Engineers:
-King Ezana
-Fasiledes
-Gebre Mesqel Lalibela

Great Generals:
-Yohannes IV
-Yekuno Amlak
-Iyasu I
-Amda Seyon I
-Eskender
-Tewodros II

Great Merchants:
-Mohammed Al Amoudi
-Queen of Sheba

Great Prophets:
-Samuel of Dabra Wagag
-Ewostatewos
-Abuna Theophilos
-Gabra Manfas Qeddus
-Yared

Great Scientists:
-Kitaw Ejigu
-Gebise Ejeta
-Sossina M. Haile
-Tilahun Yilma
-Aklilu Lemma

Great Spies:
-Yodit
-Shewa Regged

Where would you put Haile Selassie?

Also, artists and scientists are only modern, if that's OK. I couldn't find any otherwise. And not all too many of these people are "great" by my standards, but they are the greatest among Ethiopians, at least among those we know about and those I can find fairly easily.

JiimBV
Mar 05, 2011, 07:06 PM
Also, I would consider putting Hellenism from RFCC in as a religion. It would give conflict between the Zoroastrians and the Greeks early on, as well as giving the Mediterranean a religion previous to the arrival of Catholicism. Since it's over-ridden with the spread of Catholicism, one wouldn't have to worry about it surviving into the Medieval Era.

civ_king
Mar 05, 2011, 07:13 PM
India already kinda represents all of S. Asia

I know, but he only described India not South Asia

Really? I was unaware of this... I thought that Indie culture just went away over time just like regular foreign culture.

It might, but you can't expedite the process by killing the civ

Lol that's what I was thinking too. Unless he means earlier pagan religions.

Maybe

I presume, by your word choice, you're referring to the introduction of tea :p?

Are you racially stereotyping me because I'm Indian, am a citizen of Canada and drink black tea in the morning and afternoon??
J/K (on the racist part)

Oh, and on another note, I was thinking that 'Atheism' might be a possible 'religion' to implement. Founded via scientific method, no holy shrine, no buildings, no anything special EXCEPT that it slowly causes religions in cities to die. I personally am not too sure if it would be a good addition however. Opinions?

Also, when would you like the release to be? I was thinking the eleventh would be good.
Doesn't seem to add much

The eleventh seems like a good deadline to prevent scope creep

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 07:18 PM
I sense a bit of a bias here.

I may be Indian, but I'm neither Muslim, nor Hindu, nor Buddhist, nor Sikh, nor of any religion. I am an atheist and therefore I feel I am unbiased in the manner. My poor treatment of Mughals, Timurids, etc. comes from their poor human rights records, even by the standards of their times.

I'm not even a patriot; I think patriotism is the scourge of humanity. What I am, however, is a humanist, and this means I abhor people who who don't respect the rights of others.

Anyways muslims only constitute 13% of India (maybe 15 to 17% if u include Bangladesh and Nepal). Percentage wise thats the same as Russia (12%) and a bit more than France (9%).

First of all you forget Pakistan, the biggest Muslim nation there, WHICH by the way, used to be part of India. You also have to take into account that 13% of India's 1.2 billion people means a lot more people than than the equivalent percentage in most other countries. Most importantly, Islam in India is growing at an astonishing 36.0% annually. That's more than any other single religion in India.

Proportionally, Muslims only constitute a sight minority in India. Maybe You can include Islam (in addition to Hinduism) in one Indian city (perhaps one in a region with a large Muslim minority).

The goal would be to make sure Islam spreads to every Indian city EXCEPT for one, rather than the other way around.

NOW here's where i strongly disagree with you. Afghanistan has a totally different culture/language/ people than India. The Mughals were from Afghanistan and the Timurid capital was in Herat, Afghanistan. The religion of Afghanistan depended on its rulers, as this small chronography will display.
1) The Achaemenid Empire conquers Afghanistan and the chief religion is Zoroastrianism. Note many historians believe Zoroaster was born in either Arachosia, Sistan-Balochistan or Bactria. (Region within or in close proximity to Afghanistan and even Pakistan.
2) Alexander conquers Afghanistan (everything west of Indus) and Hellenism is mixed with local religions.
3) Mauryan conquer Afghanistan and Pakistan and spread Buddhism to the region.
4) The Persian Parthians, Kushans and Sassanids conquer Afghanistan (and Pakistan) and Zoroastrianism and Hellenized Buddhism become the main religions of the region.
5) The Arabs conquer the region and Islam replaces Buddhism and Zoroastarianism as the main religion.

As I said, Afghanistan USED to be of Hindu strain. It isn't anymore thanks to, largely, the Arab invasion.

Although, I agree with Islam being spread to India by force (somewhat).

Somewhat? I have one word for you, and one word only: Aurangzeb.

You can show Afghanistan's religious diversity on the map by spawning a Taxila with Zoroastarianism and Buddhism (not hinduism). The spawn would have to after the spawn of Persia since Zoroastrianism isnt founded before this

Sure, but Hinduism too. The addition of inquisitors would make it go away however.


Linkman, the nations you've given me don't have civ-specific Great People lists yet, as the two mods that included this feature stopped updating before Beyond the Sword came out. However, I did spend a little while trying to find Ethiopian ones, and this is what I've come up with:

Great Artists:
-Tsegaye Gabre-Medhin
-Afewerk Tekle
-Alexander Boghossian
-Adamu Tesfaw
-Gebre Kristos Desta

Great Engineers:
-King Ezana
-Fasiledes
-Gebre Mesqel Lalibela

Great Generals:
-Yohannes IV
-Yekuno Amlak
-Iyasu I
-Amda Seyon I
-Eskender
-Tewodros II

Great Merchants:
-Mohammed Al Amoudi
-Queen of Sheba

Great Prophets:
-Samuel of Dabra Wagag
-Ewostatewos
-Abuna Theophilos
-Gabra Manfas Qeddus
-Yared

Great Scientists:
-Kitaw Ejigu
-Gebise Ejeta
-Sossina M. Haile
-Tilahun Yilma
-Aklilu Lemma

Great Spies:
-Yodit
-Shewa Regged

Where would you put Haile Selassie?

Also, artists and scientists are only modern, if that's OK. I couldn't find any otherwise. And not all too many of these people are "great" by my standards, but they are the greatest among Ethiopians, at least among those we know about and those I can find fairly easily.

Thanks! This will help out a lot. Personally I'd make Selassie a GG.

If you could do the same for the other civs I'd listed, that'd be great!

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 07:22 PM
Also, I would consider putting Hellenism from RFCC in as a religion. It would give conflict between the Zoroastrians and the Greeks early on, as well as giving the Mediterranean a religion previous to the arrival of Catholicism. Since it's over-ridden with the spread of Catholicism, one wouldn't have to worry about it surviving into the Medieval Era.

Sure. Probably the mechanism to replace Hellenism is beyond my coding knowledge, but since I'm learning more and more programming each day, it will be included- just not any time soon.

A general question- Any dynamic name change suggestions?
Any other suggestions?

J. pride
Mar 05, 2011, 08:05 PM
First of all you forget Pakistan, the biggest Muslim nation there, WHICH by the way, used to be part of India. You also have to take into account that 13% of India's 1.2 billion people means a lot more people than than the equivalent percentage in most other countries. Most importantly, Islam in India is growing at an astonishing 36.0% annually. That's more than any other single religion in India.
I didnt include pakistan for a reason. Pakistan was also part of Achaemenid Empire, Alexenders Empire, Greek Empire, Gereco-Bactarian kingdoms; Iranian Kingdom (Sythians, Parthians, Kushans, Sassanids), Arabs and Ghaznavids. There are only three instances in history when Pakistan was part of of India: Mauryas, Mughals and the British. Anyways Western Pakistan was a core part of Persia.
As I said, Afghanistan USED to be of Hindu strain. It isn't anymore thanks to, largely, the Arab invasion.
Thats like saying Zoroastrianism should be spread in China because a small minority of Chinese embraced Zoroastrianism because of the silk road. Or that Kiev should spawn with Islam because of the Tatars. Hinduism had a very small if not any part in history of Afghanistan. For most of its history it was part of the Persian Empire; and when it was part of the Indian Empire it was when India was buddhist. Just a century before the Arab conquest, there are accounts of Chinese monks travelling to Gandhara (Eastern Afghanistan) and describing their Buddhist heritage. There was mention of Zoroastarians but not Hindus.Hellenism had more impact in Afghanistan than Hinduism as shown by the excavation of statues Hellenistic gods in the region. I highly advise you not to add Hinduism to Afghanistan.

JiimBV
Mar 05, 2011, 08:33 PM
Portugal

Great Artists:
-Nuno Goncalves
-Machado de Castro
-Amadeo de Souza Cardoso
-Almada Negreiros
-Joao de Barros
-Zeca Afonso
-Nadir Afonso

Great Engineers:
-Diogo Boitac
-Mateus Fernandes
-Afonso Alvares
-Joao Antunes
-Alvaro Siza Vieira
-Diogo de Arruda

Great Generals:
-Afonso I
-Viriathus
-Alvaro Vaz de Almada
-Carvalho
-Nuno Alvares Pereira
-Joao III
-Joao IV

Great Merchants:
-Vasco de Gama
-Henry the Navigator
-Ferdinand Magellan
-Pedro Alvares Cabral
-Afonso de Albuquerque
-Fernao Mendes Pinto
-Bartolomeu Dias

Great Prophets:
-Elizabeth of Portugal
-Anthony of Lisbon
-Saint Rudesind
-Quiteria
-Peter of Rates
-John de Brito
-Pope Damascus I

Great Scientists:
-Abel Salazar
-Jacob de Castro Sarmento
-Antonio Egas Moniz
-Garcia de Orta
-Bartolomeu de Gusmao
-Pedro Nunes
-Antonio Sergio

Great Spies:
-Ralf
-Garbo
-Christopher Columbus
-Antonio Salazar
-Marcello Caetano

__________________________________________________ ______________________

This was rather easy compared to Ethiopia.

Christopher Columbus is included because of the many books published claiming he was a Portuguese spy. You can remove him if you wish to.

I shall try both the Khmer and Maya now, and see which one is easier, and then MAYBE I'll do it tonight. Maybe not.

Gruekiller
Mar 05, 2011, 08:44 PM
This mod sounds amazing. I look forward to downloading it with bated breath. :)

Krug
Mar 05, 2011, 09:02 PM
I'll probably reinstate Judaism and Confucianism, although the former will be a minor religion that spreads randomly like in RFCE:E. I'll probably also add the Sunni/ Shi'ite split.

Anyone have any ideas on what tech would cause the Islam split?

EDIT: Or better, perhaps an automatic prescripted split in 632?

Just go with a Prescrpited split, as there was really no pinpoint tech cause for the Split, other than argument over Divine Right. But this already founds Islam.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 09:11 PM
I didnt include pakistan for a reason. Pakistan was also part of Achaemenid Empire, Alexenders Empire, Greek Empire, Gereco-Bactarian kingdoms; Iranian Kingdom (Sythians, Parthians, Kushans, Sassanids), Arabs and Ghaznavids. There are only three instances in history when Pakistan was part of of India: Mauryas, Mughals and the British. Anyways Western Pakistan was a core part of Persia....
Hinduism had a very small if not any part in history of Afghanistan. For most of its history it was part of the Persian Empire; and when it was part of the Indian Empire it was when India was buddhist. Just a century before the Arab conquest, there are accounts of Chinese monks travelling to Gandhara (Eastern Afghanistan) and describing their Buddhist heritage. There was mention of Zoroastarians but not Hindus.Hellenism had more impact in Afghanistan than Hinduism as shown by the excavation of statues Hellenistic gods in the region.

Gandhara was for a time Hindu. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara)

A map (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Map_of_Vedic_India.png) of various ancient Aryan kingdoms, from Bangladesh to Afghanistan. All Hindu.

Refer to the wikipedia page Greater India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_India)

Refer to the Wikipedia page Hindustan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustan).

Pakistan is culturally rooted to India, Afghanistan once was too (still is, but to a far lesser extent).
Pakistan was, since time immemorial considered part of India; the concept of Pakistan as seperate from India is a recent invention.
If you've played RFC:A or SoI, most of the Indian kingdoms stretch well into Pakistan.

Thats like saying Zoroastrianism should be spread in China because a small minority of Chinese embraced Zoroastrianism because of the silk road. Or that Kiev should spawn with Islam because of the Tatars.

That's where the inquisitor feature comes in.

I highly advise you not to add Hinduism to Afghanistan.

I probably won't but the hope is it will spread. However, Taxila will have Hinduism.


This was rather easy compared to Ethiopia.


So I would imagine :lol:

Christopher Columbus is included because of the many books published claiming he was a Portuguese spy. You can remove him if you wish to.

Eh.... Only a few books... I might include him.

I shall try both the Khmer and Maya now, and see which one is easier, and then MAYBE I'll do it tonight. Maybe not.[/QUOTE]

Ok, thanks. Keep up the good work!

This mod sounds amazing. I look forward to downloading it with bated breath. :)

Glad to hear! :)

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 09:13 PM
Just go with a Prescrpited split, as there was really no pinpoint tech cause for the Split, other than argument over Divine Right. But this already founds Islam.

Makes sense.

JiimBV
Mar 05, 2011, 09:56 PM
Khmer:

Great Artists:
-Thommaracha

Great Engineers:
-Indravarman I
-Yasovarman I
-Suryavarman I
-Suryavarman II
-Udayadityavarman II

Great Generals:
-Jayavarman II
-Vinyanandana
-Rajendravarman II
-Bhavavarman I

Great Merchants:
-Srindravarman

Great Prophets:
-Kirtipandita
-Prince Tamalinda
-Jayavarman VII
-Ponhea Yat

Great Scientists:
-Jayavarman V

Great Spies:
-Prince In

__________________________________________________ ______________________

The problem with Khmer, is that other than the names of Kings and some few princes, very little was recorded. The "great scientist" I have and the "great spy" I have are stretches to say the least. And somehow, Thommaracha is the only recorded author of any work of Khmer art, his being a poem.

I am sure that the list above is basically the extent that list will get if I remain within the Khmer empire itself.

To expand upon this list, would you suggest I include other Cambodian civilizations that existed previous to colonization? Or should it be left alone and let Khmer have very few GPs? The problem with that would be that there aren't enough Great Artists, and Great Artists are one of the few things a human Khmer would spawn. I am at a loss. Show me the way, O Linkman!

Krug
Mar 05, 2011, 10:01 PM
Name: Safavids/Qajar/Iran
Leader: (Ismail I|Until 1742)(1742–1941: Mohammad Khan Qajar)(1941-:Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi)(If Government is Theocratic: Ruhollah Khomeini)
Leader Traits:
UU: Qizilbash (Musketman, Starts with City Raider I)
UB: Caravanserai (Market with +30% +10% )
UP:
UHV:- Have Open Borders with 5 European Nations in 1650 AD
- Make Shi'ite Islam the only Religion in Iran in 1700 AD (OR Make Persia the most cultured nation in the Middle East, and Indian Subcontinent in 1700 AD)
- Found (Oil Company) and Spread it to 70% of the World
Preferred Civic: (Shahs- Absolutism, Khomenini- Theocracy Equivilent)
Start: 1501 AD
End: N/A

Name: Mexico
Leader: Hidalgo (1810-1858), Benito Juarez (1858-1934), Lázaro Cárdenas (1934-), Emiliano Zapata? (If Communist?)
Leader Traits:
UU: Rurales (Less Expensive Cavalry that start with Combat I)
UB: Charreada (Theater with that give +1XP to Mounted Units, Requires Horses, and Gives +1 Happiness with Horses)
UP:
UHV: -Ensure that there are no Spanish Colonies in America by 1890 AD
-Control Arizona, New Mexico, California, Nevada, Texas and all of Mesoamerica in 1945 AD
-Make Catholicism the Dominant religion in North America by 2000 AD
Preferred Civic:
Start: 1810 AD
End: N/A

Changed the Persian UHVs and started up Mexico. What do you guys think?
Next I'll probably get Iraq and Argentina up.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 10:07 PM
The problem with Khmer, is that other than the names of Kings and some few princes, very little was recorded. The "great scientist" I have and the "great spy" I have are stretches to say the least. And somehow, Thommaracha is the only recorded author of any work of Khmer art, his being a poem.

I am sure that the list above is basically the extent that list will get if I remain within the Khmer empire itself.

To expand upon this list, would you suggest I include other Cambodian civilizations that existed previous to colonization? Or should it be left alone and let Khmer have very few GPs? The problem with that would be that there aren't enough Great Artists, and Great Artists are one of the few things a human Khmer would spawn. I am at a loss. Show me the way, O Linkman!

Lovin' those -varmans :lol::lol:

Check out Siam, and modern Cambodia too, and if that's not enough, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc. (Southeast Asia, basically). I personally always think of Khmer as representing the many civillizations of that area.

Check thse out out: Wikipedia compilations of Cambodian architects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cambodian_architects) and Cambodian artists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cambodian_artists'). Admittedly the first one is scanty, but still.

Would it offend anyone to have Pol Pot/ Ho Chi Minh as Khmer GG's? :mischief:

Gruekiller
Mar 05, 2011, 10:09 PM
I'd love to play as Krug's civ ideas, actually. :lol:

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 10:15 PM
Name: Safavids/Qajar/Iran
Leader: (Ismail I|Until 1742)(1742–1941: Mohammad Khan Qajar)(1941-:Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi)(If Government is Theocratic: Ruhollah Khomeini)

Can anyone hunt down some of these leaderheads?


UU: Qizilbash (Musketman, Starts with City Raider I)

Although I disapproved earlier, I change my mind. Sounds good.

UHV:- Have Open Borders with 5 European Nations in 1650 AD
- Make Shi'ite Islam the only Religion in Iran in 1700 AD (OR Make Persia the most cultured nation in the Middle East, and Indian Subcontinent in 1700 AD)
- Control all of The Arabian Peninsula, Jerusalem, and Anatolia in 1945 AD


Are ANY of these actually historical, besides the second one?
And usually there aren't too many civs in the Middle East and Indian subcontinent, so that's not exactly mind-bogglingly difficult.


Name: Mexico
Leader: Hidalgo (1810-1858), Benito Juarez (1858-1934), Lázaro Cárdenas (1934-), Emiliano Zapata? (If Communist?)
Leader Traits:
UU: Rurales (Less Expensive Cavalry that start with Combat I)
UB: Charreada (Collosseum with that give +2XP to Mounted Units)

Might be better for the Charreada to replace the Theatre. Amitheatres are usually outdated by this time. Oh and happiness with horses?
That all sounds too much like the Byzantine hippodrome, though...

Everything thing else sounds good.

Krug
Mar 05, 2011, 10:22 PM
Although I disproved earlier, I change my mind. Sounds good.
I actually was about to change it to Rifleman, as this was just a copypasta from before. In my personal opinion, I say we keep it as Musketman, do a playtest, and then decide.

Are ANY of these actually historical, besides the second one?
And usually there aren't too many civs in the Middle East and Indian subcontinent, so that's not exactly mind-bogglingly difficult.
I was really stretched for a second UHV. Also, First one IS Historical, Sarafavids generally did have excellent relations with the Europeans under Abbas I.

Third One is just for kicks really, sort of like the Greek Circumnavigate the globe UHV. Essentially it calls for reviving the Persian Empire of old.


Might be better for the Charreada to replace the Theatre. Amitheatres are usually outdated by this time. Oh and happiness with horses?
That all sounds too much like the Byzantine hippodrome, though...

Everything thing else sounds good.

How about give it happiness with Horses, half the XP bonus, and make the building require horses? Or Take off the Happiness and just give the Full XP bonus instead.

Linkman226
Mar 05, 2011, 10:40 PM
Guys I had an idea, to make the Pacific/ some other islands much more settled. Basically, coal/ oil based ships have to end their turn in a city or fort, just like early planes, to simulate the fact that the acquisition of coaling/ fueling stations has always been an imperative for nations, and that this has been the reason certain key cities/ islands were colonized- Hawaii, the Philippines, etc. Combine this with forts that give off culture, and another idea in this post (below this one) and you get colonization of places you rarely see touched normally (like Hawaii and those other Pacific outposts).

Of course I could use some help from any modders out there who would like to help (I would REALLY appreciate it) getting the AI to build forts and cities on remote cities, and in getting the AI to understand that their ships will sink if they don't end their turn in cities).

The other idea is the spawning on/ around certain Pacific islands of fish, crabs, clams, and the plantation resources to induce their colonization.

I actually was about to change it to Rifleman, as this was just a copypasta from before. In my personal opinion, I say we keep it as Musketman, do a playtest, and then decide.

I agree.

I was really stretched for a second UHV. Also, First one IS Historical, Sarafavids generally did have excellent relations with the Europeans under Abbas I.

Ok, cool.

Third One is just for kicks really, sort of like the Greek Circumnavigate the globe UHV. Essentially it calls for reviving the Persian Empire of old.

Something to do with oil might be better, although we'd have to prevent it from being too easy. Perhaps, 'Found Oil industry and expand it to every city' (the corporation)?

How about give it happiness with Horses, half the XP bonus, and make the building require horses? Or Take off the Happiness and just give the Full XP bonus instead.

I like the first idea: +1 XP, requires horses, and +1 happiness.

Krug
Mar 05, 2011, 10:50 PM
Guys I had an idea, to make the Pacific/ some other islands much more settled. Basically, coal/ oil based ships have to end their turn in a city or fort, just like early planes, to simulate the fact that the acquisition of coaling/ fueling stations has always been an imperative for nations, and that this has been the reason certain key cities/ islands were colonized- Hawaii, the Philippines, etc. Combine this with forts that give off culture, and another idea in this post (below this one) and you get colonization of places you rarely see touched normally (like Hawaii and those other Pacific outposts).

Of course I could use some help from any modders out there who would like to help (I would REALLY appreciate it) getting the AI to build forts and cities on remote cities, and in getting the AI to understand that their ships will sink if they don't end their turn in cities).

I like this idea very much so. But what about say, a Blockade? Technically you would need to end your turn for an ocean tile for this to work.

Also Added this as the third Iranian UHV:
- Found (Oil Company) and Spread it to 70% of the World

JiimBV
Mar 05, 2011, 10:54 PM
I kept it mostly to Cambodian Kingdoms and Cambodia itself, save for a few Thai/Siamese people.

Khmer:

Great Artists:
-Thommaracha
-Vann Nath
-King Ang Duong
-Chhim Sothy
-Chath Piersath

Great Engineers:
-Indravarman I
-Yasovarman I
-Suryavarman I
-Suryavarman II
-Vann Molyvann

Great Generals:
-Jayavarman II
-Vinyanandana
-Rajendravarman II
-Bhavavarman I
-Dien Del
-Sak Sutsakhan

Great Merchants:
-Srei Meara
-Srindravarman
-Chey Chettha II
-Teng Bunma
-Uthong

Great Prophets:
-Kirtipandita
-Prince Tamalinda
-Jayavarman VII
-Maha Ghosananda
-Chuon Noth

Great Scientists:
-Jayavarman V
-J.S. Hak
-Mongkut
-Shaiwatna Kupratakul
-Krisana Kraisintu

Great Spies:
-Prince In
-Son Sen
-Comrade Duch
-Comrade At
-Ieng Thirith

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 12:17 AM
Good job, keep it up!

merijn_v1
Mar 06, 2011, 03:37 AM
@ Linkman

I see you shipped some resources from RFCE. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10276905&postcount=45) But as you can see, tea uses the dummy model. (A weird type of grain.) If you have Warlords, you can ship the tea resource from the Chinese Unification Mod. (If you don't have warlods, I can provide you with the art files if you want.)

Leoreth
Mar 06, 2011, 05:04 AM
Mind if I take these GP names into DoC as well? :)

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 09:23 AM
I like this idea very much so. But what about say, a Blockade? Technically you would need to end your turn for an ocean tile for this to work.

Also Added this as the third Iranian UHV:
- Found (Oil Company) and Spread it to 70% of the World

Ok I agree- only for ocean tiles.

And good job on the Iranian UHV, although 70% may be excessive. And perhaps 'Control Oil Company headquarters' might be better.

@ Linkman

I see you shipped some resources from RFCE. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10276905&postcount=45) But as you can see, tea uses the dummy model. (A weird type of grain.) If you have Warlords, you can ship the tea resource from the Chinese Unification Mod. (If you don't have warlods, I can provide you with the art files if you want.)

Oh, sure. That works. I'll need you to send me Chinese Unification's 'Assets' folder though.

Mind if I take these GP names into DoC as well? :)

Of course not.

Everything here is open source :)

Krug
Mar 06, 2011, 09:35 AM
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12893
Would Probably work as Ismail I, you could also use the Abbas I Leaderhead in SoI, as he also looks like Ismail.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8503
This one makes for a perfect Mohammad Khan Qajar

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8346
And here's Khomeni
----------------------------------------
Ideas on Conditional Spawns:

If England does not control the East Coast, America does not spawn
If a Muslim Nation controls Constantinople and Anantolia, Turks do not spawn
If Muslims are still in control of most of Iberia, Portrugal does not spawn
If Spain has Collapsed the Dutch do not spawn(?)
If France has Collapsed the English do not spawn(?)
-----------------------------------------
Ok I agree- only for ocean tiles.

And good job on the Iranian UHV, although 70% may be excessive. And perhaps 'Control Oil Company headquarters' might be better.
How about 50%? And yeah, I'll agree on control oil company headquarters.

merijn_v1
Mar 06, 2011, 09:44 AM
Oh, sure. That works. I'll need you to send me Chinese Unification's 'Assets' folder though.

I just found out that the tea in Chinese Unification uses the Tobacco art.

But never mind, in RoM is also a tea art. (the require XML file is in the package)

Gruekiller
Mar 06, 2011, 09:59 AM
I've always thought it'd kind of make sense if the Turks didn't spawn when a very stable nation controls Anatolia. After all, how could Turks slip into Anatolia if Greece is mega-stable and has controlled Persia for millenia? :p

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 10:08 AM
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12893
Would Probably work as Ismail I, you could also use the Abbas I Leaderhead in SoI, as he also looks like Ismail.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8503
This one makes for a perfect Mohammad Khan Qajar

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8346
And here's Khomeni

For the sake of not having too many leaders, I'll only add Ismail and Khomeini., Qajar was: 1) Not nearly as important and 2)The LH above looks nothing like him (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Mohammad_Khan_Qajar.jpg).



Ideas on Conditional Spawns:

If England does not control the East Coast, America does not spawn
If a Muslim Nation controls Constantinople and Anantolia, Turks do not spawn
If Muslims are still in control of most of Iberia, Portrugal does not spawn
If Spain has Collapsed the Dutch do not spawn(?)
If France has Collapsed the English do not spawn(?)

1) Sure.
2) No. The Sultanate of Rum was in control of the area just before the Ottomans. What I'm planning to do here is script a wave of barbs into Anatolia in around 1000 AD. The goal is for Asia to look like this (the Seljuks at the height of their power):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Seljuk_Empire_locator_map.svg

Then the Ottomans will flip stuff. Then the Persians will flip stuff. And so on and so forth.
3) Sure. It's not like we ever see a Muslim Iberia anyways.
4) Meh.
5) Meh.

How about 50%? And yeah, I'll agree on control oil company headquarters.

40% seems best.

I just found out that the tea in Chinese Unification uses the Tobacco art.

But never mind, in RoM is also a tea art. (the require XML file is in the package)

Ok, so I'll get it from RoM.

I've always thought it'd kind of make sense if the Turks didn't spawn when a very stable nation controls Anatolia. After all, how could Turks slip into Anatolia if Greece is mega-stable and has controlled Persia for millenia? :p

:lol::lol:

As I said above- I plan on prescripting a Seljuk barbarian wave.

EDIT:

Good news, oh espionagists of the world!


http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/9793/civ4screenshot0132.jpg (http://img855.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0132.jpg/)

SouthernKing
Mar 06, 2011, 11:02 AM
I have some ideas:

How about this:
Canada
Not sure what leaders.
Spawn: 1800 (possibly)
UP; Power of the Great White North: Tundra squares provide 1 gold and 1 hammer
UHV:
1. No European cities in North America in 1850
2. Control or vassalize America by 1950
3. Build the United Nations, the Apollo program, and the Pentagon by 2000
The point of this civ would be to prevent American over-expansion northwards.

Also, I was thinking you could delay the end of the game from 2020 to maybe 2100 and add some future techs so we could play the game into the future. Just a thought.

Another thought: maybe you could add Hellenism and Kemetism (egyptian religion) as religions. It might be possible for these religion to be removed from a city when Christianity or Islam spreads into a city with these religions.

Also, religions could "auto-found" in certain dates. For example, Hellenism might be founded as soon as the Greeks found their capital. This would be to make the game more historically accurate religion-wise.

Krug
Mar 06, 2011, 11:08 AM
For the sake of not having too many leaders, I'll only add Ismail and Khomeini., Qajar was: 1) Not nearly as important and 2)The LH above looks nothing like him (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Mohammad_Khan_Qajar.jpg).
[/SPOILER]

Oh man, my recently woken up eyes could have sworn they looked something alike :p

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 11:19 AM
Besides putting in the production->espionage function I also just added an idle city function which causes a city to do nothing.

I have some ideas:

How about this:
Canada
Spawn: 1800 (possibly)
UP; Power of the Great White North: Tundra squares provide 1 gold and 1 hammer
UHV:
1. No European cities in North America in 1850
2. Control or vassalize America by 1950
3. Build the United Nations, the Apollo program, and the Pentagon by 2000


Those are some funny UHV's! :lol:

Running the risk of offending Canadians:



1)Set every city in Quebec free/ gifts to France by 1950.
2)Put every city's production as idle.
3)Control 15 Maple Syrup resources.


Also, I was thinking you could delay the end of the game from 2020 to maybe 2100 and add some future techs so we could play the game into the future. Just a thought.

Maybe- most people don't even play into modern anyways because of slow speed, so this is a big maybe.

Another thought: maybe you could add Hellenism and Kemetism (egyptian religion) as religions. It might be possible for these religion to be removed from a city when Christianity or Islam spreads into a city with these religions.

Sure. RFCC already does this with Hellenism, it should be easy enough (copypasta, mostly) do do it for Kemetism.

Also, religions could "auto-found" in certain dates. For example, Hellenism might be founded as soon as the Greeks found their capital. This would be to make the game more historically accurate religion-wise.

Also a good suggestion.

Oh man, my recently woken up eyes could have sworn they looked something alike :p

:lol:

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 11:31 AM
And the religion overhaul is looking like this right now:

Hellenism- dies with spread of Christian religions and Muslim religions
Kemetism- dies with spread of Christian religions and Muslim religions
Zoroastrianism- even lower spread rate than it is right now
Judaism- minor religion- spreads unhappiness, instability with spread; Jewish Quarter building provides some trade routes and/ or gold.
Confucianism
Taoism
Buddhism
Hinduism
Catholicism
Orthodoxy- prescripted split in 1054
Protestantism- split with Printing Press
Sunni Islam
Shi'a Islam- split with Sunni Islam in 632, autofound in Makkah
Paganism- most religions start with pagan missionary; no holy city; low spread; displaced by other religions


Sunni and Shi'ite leaders get a penalty, but it's halved.
Orthodox leaders get a bonus with Catholics and Protestants, but its halved.
Confucians, Taoists, and Buddhists get a bonus with each other, but it's halved.
Hindus and Buddhists get a quartered bonus.
Hindus, Confucians, and Taoists get a quartered penalty.
Catholics and Prots. get a halved penalty (not a full penalty, like in DoC)
Christian leaders get a doubled penalty against pagan leaders, Hellenistic leaders, and Kemetistic leaders, but not vice versa (so Ramses may adore Christian Julius but Julius may abhor Ramses)
Pagan leaders will actually get a small negative penalty against each other because the various pagan religions of the world are different.

Valex Charme
Mar 06, 2011, 11:39 AM
And the religion overhaul is looking like this right now:

Hellenism- dies with spread of Christian religions and Muslim religions
Kemetism- dies with spread of Christian religions and Muslim religions
Zoroastrianism- even lower spread rate than it is right now
Judaism- minor religion- spreads unhappiness, instability with spread; Jewish Quarter building provides some trade routes and/ or gold.
Confucianism
Taoism
Buddhism
Hinduism
Catholicism
Orthodoxy- prescripted split in 1054
Protestantism- split with Printing Press
Sunni Islam
Shi'a Islam- split with Sunni Islam in 632, autofound in Makkah
Paganism- most religions start with pagan missionary; no holy city; low spread; displaced by other religions


Sunni and Shi'ite leaders get a penalty, but it's halved.
Orthodox leaders get a bonus with Catholics and Protestants, but its halved.
Confucians, Taoists, and Buddhists get a bonus with each other, but it's halved.
Hindus and Buddhists get a quartered bonus.
Hindus, Confucians, and Taoists get a quartered penalty.
Catholics and Prots. get a halved penalty (not a full penalty, like in DoC)
Christian leaders get a doubled penalty against pagan leaders, Hellenistic leaders, and Kemetistic leaders, but not vice versa (so Ramses may adores Christian Julius but Julius may abhor Ramses)
Pagan leaders will actually get a small negative penalty against each other because the various pagan religions of the world are different.

Love those ideas for religious overhaul.

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 11:41 AM
Love those ideas for religious overhaul.

Welcome to posting, oh Lurker!

Gruekiller
Mar 06, 2011, 11:44 AM
Also digging the religious ideas. But maybe the bonus between Sunni and Shi'ite should be quartered instead of halved? They don't like each other very much. It's an east-side, west-side thing. :p

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 11:46 AM
Also digging the religious ideas. But maybe the bonus between Sunni and Shi'ite should be quartered instead of halved? They don't like each other very much. It's an east-side, west-side thing. :p

No, I have between them right now a halved penalty.

Gruekiller
Mar 06, 2011, 11:47 AM
Oh! So you do. Reading comprehension fail.

SouthernKing
Mar 06, 2011, 12:19 PM
1)Set every city in Quebec free/ gifts to France by 1950.
2)Put every city's production as idle.
3)Control 15 Maple Syrup resources.:lol::lol:

Krug
Mar 06, 2011, 12:27 PM
Iranian UP: Power of Safaviyya: New (Non-Conquered) Cities automatically start with Shi'ite Islam and a Shi'ite Temple
Mexican UP: Power of the Yucatan- All Cities automatically start with +2:Culture:

Sweden
Gustavus Adolphus
Spawn: 1523
UU: Karolin (Musketman(?) with 1-2 First Strikes, and is Immune to First Strikes)
UB: Riksbank (Bank with +75% :gold: and gives +1 Free Merchant )
UP: Power of the Formation: All Units start with the Formation Promotion
UHV: -Conquer Norway, Finland, Latvia, and Estonia by 1600 AD
- Do not lose any Cities before 1700 AD
- Become the the Wealthiest and most Cultured European Civ by 1980 AD

Argentina
José de San Martín (1810-1943), Juan Peron (1943-)
Spawn: 1810
UU: Caballo (Cavalry with +30% Bonus against Gunpowder Units)
UB: Dance Studio (Theatre that adds +5 Culture)
UHV:
- Ensure there are no Spanish Cities in South America by 1900 AD
- Become the Wealthiest Nation in the world by 1950.
- ?

Gruekiller
Mar 06, 2011, 12:32 PM
One of the Argentinean UHVs should have to do with the Falklands. And maybe something else relating to the Europeans that immigrated there in the 20th Century.

KMRblue1027
Mar 06, 2011, 12:40 PM
UP; Power of the Great White North: Tundra squares provide 1

A very underpowered UP. A tundra would still only have what 1 :food: 1 :hammers: and 1 :gold:? Specialists would kill these tiles.

I suggest either plus 1 :food: and ability to build on tundra without water or ability to farm tundra (With bio is +2 :food: would be very helpful and other civs that cap the cities wouldn't go into starvation)

Also Canada should spawn around 1850 is my guess.

JiimBV
Mar 06, 2011, 12:42 PM
One of the Argentinian UHVs should have to do with their powerful economy, as they were the second largest economy in the world at one point. So:
-Be the richest nation in the world in 1910/1920
OR
-Have the highest GDP (or whatever that thing is) in 1910/1920

Also, the Mayans are also super hard, perhaps even harder than the Khmer, if you can believe it. So, two things: a) don't expect it to be done for a little while AND b) any suggestions for how to find more/encompass more?

merijn_v1
Mar 06, 2011, 12:52 PM
Sweden
Gustavus Adolphus
Spawn: 1523
UU: Karloin (Musketman(?) with 1-2 First Strikes, and is Immune to First Strikes)
UB: Riksbank (Bank with +75% :gold: )
UP: Power of the Formation: All Units start with the Formation Promotion
UHV: -Conquer Norway, Finland, Latvia, and Estonia by 1600 AD
- Do not lose any Cities before 1700 AD
- Become the the Wealthiest and most Cultured European Civ by 1980 AD

Argentina
José de San Martín (1810-1943), Juan Peron (1943-)
Spawn: 1810
UU: Caballo (Cavalry with +30% Bonus against Gunpowder Units)
UB: Dance Studio (Theatre that adds +4 Culture)
UHV:
- Ensure there are no Spanish Cities in South America by 1850 AD
- ?
- ?

The UB of the Swedish isn't very Unique. (It's the same as the English Stock Exchange, but stronger.) I suggest giving it 1 free merchant.
The last UHV of the Swedish is too hard. You won't be able to get the amount of culture that France (or every other civ) will get by the time you will spawn.

The UHV of Argentina comes too quick. You have just 20 turns to get it, which can be impossible. You have to be lucky to get this UHV.
The UB only add 1 culture, which isn't very strong IMO.

KMRblue1027
Mar 06, 2011, 12:54 PM
The last UHV of the Swedish is too hard. You won't be able to get the amount of culture that France (or every other civ) will get by the time you will spawn.

You could kill them ;)

Leoreth
Mar 06, 2011, 12:55 PM
And much more important, the unit is called Karolin.

Krug
Mar 06, 2011, 01:01 PM
One of the Argentinian UHVs should have to do with their powerful economy, as they were the second largest economy in the world at one point. So:
-Be the richest nation in the world in 1910/1920

How about 1950? Other than that, sounds good.

The UB of the Swedish isn't very Unique. (It's the same as the English Stock Exchange, but stronger.) I suggest giving it 1 free merchant.
The last UHV of the Swedish is too hard. You won't be able to get the amount of culture that France (or every other civ) will get by the time you will spawn.

I can add +1 Merchant. The Culture is there merely because I wasn't sure how easy it would or wouldn't be to become the Richest Nation in europe alone with an Economically Minded UB like that.

The UHV of Argentina comes too quick. You have just 20 turns to get it, which can be impossible. You have to be lucky to get this UHV.
The UB only add 1 culture, which isn't very strong IMO.
Can change this, how about 1900 AD? And +5 Culture for the Building?

And much more important, the unit is called Karolin.
Whoops! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A)

IrishDragon
Mar 06, 2011, 01:11 PM
Looks good, especially stuff like the dynamic rebirths.
Do you have plans to add any more civs? From Jarkovs mod, I think the Celts, Koreans, Native Americans and Zulu were good additions. Also think it would be good to have another South American civ, either Brazil or Argentina (or both).
Also wondering, do minor civs cause much time or resource usage? If not, would it be possible to create a good number, that only spawn depending on certain conditions. E.g. say if a civ collapsed completely like the Ottomans, any cities in the area around Armenia would go to a minor Armenian civ instead of just independents? Might be useful for some of the Chinese factions aswell.

hoplitejoe
Mar 06, 2011, 01:16 PM
With the Shi'a Muslim spawn, what would happen if someone other than Arabia gets Sunni Islam? Admittedly it only really happens with human players but it seems weird to have Islam in china suddenly split into two sects half the world apart.

merijn_v1
Mar 06, 2011, 01:19 PM
You could kill them ;)

Then you'll probably have to kill all European civs.

Which isn't a problem either. :evil:

Leoreth
Mar 06, 2011, 01:21 PM
I'd not say it's impossible to culturally overtake everyone from 1523 to the 20th century. It's a lot of time to hire artists, build culture and use the slider.

JiimBV
Mar 06, 2011, 01:25 PM
For Argentina, you could do something to do with the education system, which is renowned as one of the world's best, and easily the best in Latin America. They also are quite well-known for their scientific achievements, so I was thinking a UHV somewhere along the lines of:
-Build 5 Universities, 5 Observatories, 5 Laboratories and an Academy by 2000 AD

Also, I was thinking that Argentina could be the Maya rebirth since they have no one else to be reborn as. Plus the colour works really well. Then, the Incas could remain as the more sensible Peru rebirth.

civ_king
Mar 06, 2011, 01:30 PM
I have some ideas:

How about this:
Canada
Not sure what leaders.
Spawn: 1800 (possibly)
UP; Power of the Great White North: Tundra squares provide 1 gold and 1 hammer
UHV:
1. No European cities in North America in 1850
2. Control or vassalize America by 1950
3. Build the United Nations, the Apollo program, and the Pentagon by 2000
The point of this civ would be to prevent American over-expansion northwards.

Also, I was thinking you could delay the end of the game from 2020 to maybe 2100 and add some future techs so we could play the game into the future. Just a thought.

Another thought: maybe you could add Hellenism and Kemetism (egyptian religion) as religions. It might be possible for these religion to be removed from a city when Christianity or Islam spreads into a city with these religions.

Also, religions could "auto-found" in certain dates. For example, Hellenism might be founded as soon as the Greeks found their capital. This would be to make the game more historically accurate religion-wise.
Leaders:
Sir John A. Macdonald, regarded as the Father of Canada, forged the self-governing Dominion of Canada
Sir Wilfred Laurier, a highly regarded French-Canuck under whom Canada become very rich, two new provinces,
William Mackenzie King, the crazed guy who lead us through WWII
Lester B. Pearson, made the Canadian flag and lead Canada when it was actually influential


Spawn: in 1840 the Canadas united into the province of Canada and in 1867 the self-governing Dominion was created, pick your poison mate.

UP; The Boundless Land: rivers give 1:hammers: 1:commerce:, Tundra gives 1:food:

Gruekiller
Mar 06, 2011, 01:32 PM
Oh, yeah. Didn't Pearson win the Nobel Peace Prize after the Suez Crisis? He'd make a good leaderhead.

civ_king
Mar 06, 2011, 01:33 PM
Oh, yeah. Didn't Pearson win the Nobel Peace Prize after the Suez Crisis? He'd make a good leaderhead.

:yup: indeed

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 03:38 PM
Iranian UP: Power of Safaviyya: New (Non-Conquered) Cities automatically start with Shi'ite Islam and a Shi'ite Temple
Mexican UP: Power of the Yucatan- All Cities automatically start with +2:Culture.


Seem like weak UP's. Iran's a copy of Arabia's, Mexico's a copy of the old Creative trait.

Sweden
Gustavus Adolphus
Spawn: 1523
UU: Karolin (Musketman(?) with 1-2 First Strikes, and is Immune to First Strikes)
UB: Riksbank (Bank with +75% :gold: and gives +1 Free Merchant )
UP: Power of the Formation: All Units start with the Formation Promotion
UHV: -Conquer Norway, Finland, Latvia, and Estonia by 1600 AD
- Do not lose any Cities before 1700 AD
- Become the the Wealthiest and most Cultured European Civ by 1980 AD


Perhaps a Ski Troop as the UU that can transverse mountain?
UP's rather weak.
Like the UHV's, except the last one


Argentina
José de San Martín (1810-1943), Juan Peron (1943-)
Spawn: 1810
UU: Caballo (Cavalry with +30% Bonus against Gunpowder Units)
UB: Dance Studio (Theatre that adds +5 Culture)
UHV:
- Ensure there are no Spanish Cities in South America by 1900 AD
- Become the Wealthiest Nation in the world by 1950.
- ?
Sounds good! Except the UB, perhaps...

One of the Argentinean UHVs should have to do with the Falklands. And maybe something else relating to the Europeans that immigrated there in the 20th Century.

Falklands are rarely settled by the British-or anyone- so there's not much to do there.

A very underpowered UP. A tundra would still only have what 1 :food: 1 :hammers: and 1 :gold:? Specialists would kill these tiles.

I suggest either plus 1 :food: and ability to build on tundra without water or ability to farm tundra (With bio is +2 :food: would be very helpful and other civs that cap the cities wouldn't go into starvation)

Also Canada should spawn around 1850 is my guess.

How bout this:

Power of the Great White North: Tundra acts as plains (anything buildable on plains can be built on tundra).

One of the Argentinian UHVs should have to do with their powerful economy, as they were the second largest economy in the world at one point. So:
-Be the richest nation in the world in 1910/1920
OR
-Have the highest GDP (or whatever that thing is) in 1910/1920

Also, the Mayans are also super hard, perhaps even harder than the Khmer, if you can believe it. So, two things: a) don't expect it to be done for a little while AND b) any suggestions for how to find more/encompass more?

The highest GDP one sounds good.

Sure. Try looking for Modern Mayans, or, as a last resort, Mexicans from the Yucatan. And while you're at it, we'll need GP lists for all these new civs too.

The UB of the Swedish isn't very Unique. (It's the same as the English Stock Exchange, but stronger.) I suggest giving it 1 free merchant.
The last UHV of the Swedish is too hard. You won't be able to get the amount of culture that France (or every other civ) will get by the time you will spawn.

The UHV of Argentina comes too quick. You have just 20 turns to get it, which can be impossible. You have to be lucky to get this UHV.
The UB only add 1 culture, which isn't very strong IMO.

The plan is to extend the game till 2200 or 2100. Then the UHVs can be redated.

Oh, and +1 merchant sounds good.

Looks good, especially stuff like the dynamic rebirths.
Do you have plans to add any more civs? From Jarkovs mod, I think the Celts, Koreans, Native Americans and Zulu were good additions. Also think it would be good to have another South American civ, either Brazil or Argentina (or both).
Also wondering, do minor civs cause much time or resource usage? If not, would it be possible to create a good number, that only spawn depending on certain conditions. E.g. say if a civ collapsed completely like the Ottomans, any cities in the area around Armenia would go to a minor Armenian civ instead of just independents? Might be useful for some of the Chinese factions aswell.

Yes, Jarkovs mod will probably be incorporated, but balance is an important issue, so certain civs may be eliminated if need be.
The minor civs idea sounds good provided that:
1)Doesn't unbalance gameplay
2)Doesn't make the game too slow
3)The minor civs are actually significant.

Then you'll probably have to kill all European civs.

Which isn't a problem either. :evil:

Indeed :lol:

With the Shi'a Muslim spawn, what would happen if someone other than Arabia gets Sunni Islam? Admittedly it only really happens with human players but it seems weird to have Islam in china suddenly split into two sects half the world apart.

Ah, I see what you mean... hmmm...well I suppose the split could have happened in real life anywhere. After all it had to do with a clash over leadership... those happen everywhere.

I'd not say it's impossible to culturally overtake everyone from 1523 to the 20th century. It's a lot of time to hire artists, build culture and use the slider.

Truth.

For Argentina, you could do something to do with the education system, which is renowned as one of the world's best, and easily the best in Latin America. They also are quite well-known for their scientific achievements, so I was thinking a UHV somewhere along the lines of:
-Build 5 Universities, 5 Observatories, 5 Laboratories and an Academy by 2000 AD

Also, I was thinking that Argentina could be the Maya rebirth since they have no one else to be reborn as. Plus the colour works really well. Then, the Incas could remain as the more sensible Peru rebirth.

Will think about it.

Leaders:
Sir John A. Macdonald, regarded as the Father of Canada, forged the self-governing Dominion of Canada
Sir Wilfred Laurier, a highly regarded French-Canuck under whom Canada become very rich, two new provinces,
William Mackenzie King, the crazed guy who lead us through WWII
Lester B. Pearson, made the Canadian flag and lead Canada when it was actually influential


Again, if you can find LH's, anything's game.


Spawn: in 1840 the Canadas united into the province of Canada and in 1867 the self-governing Dominion was created, pick your poison mate.

UP; The Boundless Land: rivers give 1:hammers: 1:commerce:, Tundra gives 1:food:

1867 sounds good. Seem my Up suggestion above; yours might get overpowered with levies.

Jusos2108
Mar 06, 2011, 03:54 PM
Perhaps a Ski Troop as the UU that can transverse mountain?
UP's rather weak.
Like the UHV's, except the last one

Ski troop isn't at all historical. Their UU could be Hackapell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakkapeliitta) (Cuirassier) or Karolin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroleans) (Musketman).

Leoreth
Mar 06, 2011, 04:19 PM
Have you considered the exploitability of building espionage? Espionage is already immensely powerful as-is, but when you can even invest your whole production into stunning and destabilizing your enemy I don't know whether the AI can still compete.

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 04:32 PM
Have you considered the exploitability of building espionage? Espionage is already immensely powerful as-is, but when you can even invest your whole production into stunning and destabilizing your enemy I don't know whether the AI can still compete.

This is true... Does a 4:1 Hammer:Espionage ration sound better?

Guys would Denmark-Norway be better as a rebirth for the Vikings?

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 04:43 PM
MAJOR REWORK AHEAD

1)Incorporation of Aussie Lurker's True Prophets Mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15508). What the mod does:



A mod which requires you to use a Great Prophet to found the 7 religions of the game-via a special Religious "building". You can gain these Prophets by building-& manning-various Ancient Temples, Burial Grounds & Sacred Sites-as well as the usual Religious Wonders (Stonehenge, Oracle, Temple of Artemis).

The following things have been added:

Religion founding "buildings":
Tao Te Ching-Required to Found Taoism. Prereq: Taoism.
Analects of Confucius-Required to Found Confucianism. Prereq: Code of Laws.
The Gospels-Required to Found Christianity. Prereq: Theology.
The Ark of the Covenant-Required to Found Judaism. Prereq: Monotheism.
The Noble Eightfold Path-Required to Found Buddhism. Prereq: Meditation.
The Kaaba-Required to Found Islam. Prereq: Divine Right.
The Vedas-Required to Found Hinduism. Prereq: Polytheism.

"Pre-religion" buildings:

Native American Temple.
Central American Temple.
African Temple.
Greco-Roman Temple.
Egyptian Temple.
Asian Temple.
Mid-Eastern Temple.
Celtic Temple.
Teutonic Temple.
Burial Grounds.
Sacred Site



2)India now spawns in the 3000BC start at Harappa. Massive barb wave around 2500BC, Harappa burned. Around 2000 BC, Indie cities spawn and the Indies get a GP in Pataliputra, which founds Hinduism.
3)Buddhism now requires Priesthood and a monastery. Another GP appears in Pataliputra circa 500 BC, founds Buddhism.
4)Mauryans (India) spawn circa 322 BC. Barb waves around 200 BC. Instability hits caused by surviving past 180 BC.
5)Modern Indian spawn like normal ("Indian cities have declared their independence!" event)

J. pride
Mar 06, 2011, 05:32 PM
2)India now spawns in the 3000BC start at Harappa. Massive barb wave around 2500BC, Harappa burned. Around 2000 BC, Indie cities spawn and the Indies get a GP in Pataliputra, which founds Hinduism.

Saying that Harrappa is a precrusor to the Indians is like saying that the Hitites were a precursor to the Ottomans. Im highly skeptical of this since archeologists know nothing of Harrapan language and know little of Harrapan religion and culture. And even little is know of their origins.
Anyways it is the Ganges not the Indus which is the origins of Indian culture.

And why should India get a special treatment. If this is the case then the chinese and egyptians should get a rebirth too.

Krug
Mar 06, 2011, 05:52 PM
This is true... Does a 4:1 Hammer:Espionage ration sound better?

Guys would Denmark-Norway be better as a rebirth for the Vikings?

This is a question similar to "Should the Incans spawn as Peru?" Denmark-Norway was not nearly as powerful as the Swedish Empire at its peak, but is definitely the more "appropriate" rebirth.

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 05:56 PM
Saying that Harrappa is a precrusor to the Indians is like saying that the Hitites were a precursor to the Ottomans. Im highly skeptical of this since archeologists know nothing of Harrapan language and know little of Harrapan religion and culture. And even little is know of their origins.
Anyways it is the Ganges not the Indus which is the origins of Indian culture.

And why should India get a special treatment. If this is the case then the chinese and egyptians should get a rebirth too.

1) As far as Harrapa's concerned, fine. I'll make it indie instead. Rest of the plan stays put.

2) Egypt and China can get work done on them too, it's just that my convo with you brought India into mind.

This is a question similar to "Should the Incans spawn as Peru?" Denmark-Norway was not nearly as powerful as the Swedish Empire at its peak, but is definitely the more "appropriate" rebirth.

I think I'll have them as Denmark Norway/ Peru then.

J. pride
Mar 06, 2011, 05:59 PM
1) As far as Harrapa's concerned, fine. I'll make it indie instead. Rest of the plan stays put.

What do u mean by that

Gruekiller
Mar 06, 2011, 06:07 PM
Personally, I'd prefer Sweden to Denmark/Norway.

Llama231
Mar 06, 2011, 06:36 PM
Are we assuming that the new responds are mostly conditional spawns?

civ_king
Mar 06, 2011, 06:38 PM
Yes, it is kind of hard to respawn a civ that isn't dead

IrishDragon
Mar 06, 2011, 06:50 PM
Personally, I'd prefer Sweden to Denmark/Norway.

I agree, Sweden would be better

Krug
Mar 06, 2011, 07:01 PM
I would third Sweden, after all, we're not spawning the Maya as Guatemala are we?

Leoreth
Mar 06, 2011, 07:04 PM
This is true... Does a 4:1 Hammer:Espionage ration sound better?

Guys would Denmark-Norway be better as a rebirth for the Vikings?
4:1 should be fair.

Personally I'd view Denmark-Norway as the Viking civ surviving and forming a more centralized state (since this is roughly what actually happened).

Gruekiller
Mar 06, 2011, 07:06 PM
I would third Sweden, after all, we're not spawning the Maya as Guatemala are we?

If anything they'd be Honduras. :p

SouthernKing
Mar 06, 2011, 07:20 PM
I like the True Prophets idea, as long as we can find a way to incorporate the new religions into it plus the Sunni/Shiite and Catholic/Orthodox schisms as well as the Reformation.

I fourth Sweden. Sweden was far more powerful and at its height had an empire than dominated the Baltic area and was a major player in European politics, both things that Denmark-Norway were not.

Oh and if you need a better name than Synthesis, I propose Rhye's and Fall Xpanded (RFX)

JiimBV
Mar 06, 2011, 09:03 PM
Iran:

Great Artists:
-Shah Tahmasp I
-Sadiqi Beg
-Kamal ud-Din Behzad
-Reza Abbassi
-Sultan Mohammed
-Mihr ‘Ali
-Naser al-Din Shah Qajar
-Reza-Qoli Khan Hedayat

Great Engineers:
-Muhibb al-Din Ali Kula
-Ustad Ali Akbar Isfahani
-Haji Abol-hasan Mimar Navai
-Haji Mohammed Hasan
-Aziz-e-Din-Qapuchi
-Shahram Entekhabi

Great Generals:
-Nader Shah
-Abbas the Great
-Karim Khan
-Lotf Ali Khan
-Reza Shah Pahlavi
-Jahan Shah

Great Merchants:
-Husain Ali-Beg
-Mozaffar ad-Din Shah Qajar
-Mirza Yusof Mostofi-al-mamalek
-Amir Kabir
-Ahmad ibn Rustah
-Nasir Khusraw
-Saadat Khan

Great Prophets:
-Baha’u’llah
-Mani
-Bab
-Jamal-al-Din al-Afghani
-Haik Hovsepian Mehr
-Mulla Sadra
-Safi-ad-Din Ardabili

Great Scientists:
-Baha’ ad-Din al-‘Amili
-Abbas Mirza
-Cumrun Vafa
-Vahid Tarokh
-Nahid Shahmehri

Great Spies:
-Allahverdi Khan
-Reza-qoli Mirza
-Ali Murad Khan
-Mirza Reza Kermani
-Saeed Asgar

Maya:

Great Artists:
-Uaxaclajuun Ub'aah K'awiil
-Ix-tz’ib Canul
-Itzamnaaj B’alam II

Great Engineers:
-Jasaw K’awiil I
-K’inich Janaab’ Pakal
-Popol Hol
-Smoke Imix

Great Generals:
-Siyaj K’ak’
-Yik’in Chan K’awill
-K’ak’ Tiliw Chan Yopaat
-Uneh Chan
-Yuknoom the Great

Great Merchants:
-Atlatl Cauac
-K’inich Yax K’uk’ Mo’
-King Moon Skull

Great Prophets:
-Topiltzin
-Ah Tohil
-Ah Cucumatz
-Kotuja’

Great Scientists:
-Ix’Chel

Great Spies:
-

Yes, I know Maya is incomplete. After a day of searching, the list is still here. Most of them are Wikipedia-verified, a couple are kinda iffy. But don't question them. It's all we've got. And I'm giving up on them, at least until EVERYTHING else is done. Someone else can give them a try.

What is the current list of Civs that will almost definitely be in Synthesis, and still need GP lists (presumably, like Mexico and Maya)?

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 10:18 PM
What do u mean by that

Independent city spawn.

Personally, I'd prefer Sweden to Denmark/Norway.

By democratic vote, I suppose that's what it'll be.

Are we assuming that the new responds are mostly conditional spawns?

Yes. In fact none will be playable from the main menu; you can only play them if they happen to spawn in your game.

I like the True Prophets idea, as long as we can find a way to incorporate the new religions into it plus the Sunni/Shiite and Catholic/Orthodox schisms as well as the Reformation.

Sure. Probably the religion splits won't even be initiated by GP; they'll be prescripted.

Oh and if you need a better name than Synthesis, I propose Rhye's and Fall Xpanded (RFX)

I'll keep it in mind haha

Iran:]
Yes, I know Maya is incomplete. After a day of searching, the list is still here. Most of them are Wikipedia-verified, a couple are kinda iffy. But don't question them. It's all we've got. And I'm giving up on them, at least until EVERYTHING else is done. Someone else can give them a try.

What is the current list of Civs that will almost definitely be in Synthesis, and still need GP lists (presumably, like Mexico and Maya)?

Great job, as always! I understand that the Mayans are probably difficult.

In any event, no NEW civs will be in the next release (aside from what Leoreth put in in DoC) which is v.001. Check the OP (original post) periodically for things that are going to be in the next release.

J. pride
Mar 06, 2011, 10:25 PM
I know that u guys are working hard on finding great people for civs that we have little to no info on. But is it possibe to have the actual great people from that civ spawn first. then the people around that civ from the same time period and then the people modern day. Do u get wat i mean (its hard to explain).

Or another option is to base great people by the time period.

So a renaissance Rome could have Michelangelo even though he wasnt born in the Roman Empire

Linkman226
Mar 06, 2011, 11:05 PM
I know that u guys are working hard on finding great people for civs that we have little to no info on. But is it possibe to have the actual great people from that civ spawn first. then the people around that civ from the same time period and then the people modern day. Do u get wat i mean (its hard to explain).

Or another option is to base great people by the time period.

So a renaissance Rome could have Michelangelo even though he wasnt born in the Roman Empire

Yes, there is an order to it.

Leoreth
Mar 07, 2011, 04:06 AM
The problem with that is only that there are a certain number of names which are used one after another. Which means when there are many Renaissance names, Renaissance names come up even in later eras, and if there are too few, later names appear already in the Renaissance. It's difficult to completely anticipate and balance this.

SouthernKing
Mar 07, 2011, 06:08 AM
What I was thinking w as that we could have regional gp lists instead of civ-specific ones.

Leoreth
Mar 07, 2011, 08:25 AM
You mean based on the city the GP is born in, opposed to the civ he belongs to? That's a great idea actually.

hoplitejoe
Mar 07, 2011, 10:12 AM
enjoy finding a great artist, spy, engineer, prophet, scientist, general and merchant from Novosibirsk

Leoreth
Mar 07, 2011, 10:23 AM
I didn't mean it to be THAT precise :lol:

But what you easily could do is:

GP is born -> look in which city he's born -> is it in someone's core? use their list. Else: use your own list. (other criteria like city's dominant culture are possible as well of course)

That would have the effect of French great people being born in French cities even when controlled by Germany or the like, which makes some kind of sense to me.

Linkman226
Mar 07, 2011, 12:44 PM
I didn't mean it to be THAT precise :lol:

But what you easily could do is:

GP is born -> look in which city he's born -> is it in someone's core? use their list. Else: use your own list. (other criteria like city's dominant culture are possible as well of course)

That would have the effect of French great people being born in French cities even when controlled by Germany or the like, which makes some kind of sense to me.

This idea sounds fantastic.

SouthernKing
Mar 07, 2011, 02:47 PM
Also what I was thinking is that if we have civs like the Maya where we don't have a full GP list we can merge it with that of a civ that is nearby. For example, we could have a combined Mesoamerican list that both the Aztecs and Mayans could draw out of.

Linkman226
Mar 07, 2011, 04:13 PM
Also what I was thinking is that if we have civs like the Maya where we don't have a full GP list we can merge it with that of a civ that is nearby. For example, we could have a combined Mesoamerican list that both the Aztecs and Mayans could draw out of.

If the list is too short, this works.

Leoreth
Mar 07, 2011, 06:43 PM
Although this is difficult to implement given the way the renaming algorithm currently works.

Linkman226
Mar 07, 2011, 08:47 PM
I just compiled my first ever DLL!

I feel so proud! :lol:


:king:

Gruekiller
Mar 07, 2011, 08:52 PM
*high five*

Linkman226
Mar 07, 2011, 10:04 PM
Guys if any you have skinning/ art skills I could use a little help. Currently the Protestant Inquisitor unit has the artwork of the Jewish inquisitor, and the Zoroastrian inquisitor has the artwork of the Confucian inquisitor. If someone could reskin those two, that'd be awesome.

Also, what do you guys think of this idea:

Counter-reformation Event
Triggered 5 turns (or perhaps '5 years' is better, to keep it constant across all game speeds) after Reformation
Catholic countries who accept get three inquisitors in their capital, one free Holy Office (the building required for Inquisitors) (in a city that does not have it), a negative diplo hit with Protestant countries, and a positive diplo bonus with Catholic leaders (plus gold, indirectly, because Inquisitors collect gold from performing Inquisitions).
Catholic countries who reject the opportunity get a hit with other Catholic countries, but avoid the instability and unhappiness caused by inquisitions.

Probably I'd hardcode the AI to go with option 1.

SouthernKing
Mar 08, 2011, 03:14 PM
Guys if any you have skinning/ art skills I could use a little help. Currently the Protestant Inquisitor unit has the artwork of the Jewish inquisitor, and the Zoroastrian inquisitor has the artwork of the Confucian inquisitor. If someone could reskin those two, that'd be awesome.

Also, what do you guys think of this idea:

Counter-reformation Event
Triggered 5 turns (or perhaps '5 years' is better, to keep it constant across all game speeds) after Reformation
Catholic countries who accept get three inquisitors in their capital, one free Holy Office (the building required for Inquisitors) (in a city that does not have it), a negative diplo hit with Protestant countries, and a positive diplo bonus with Catholic leaders (plus gold, indirectly, because Inquisitors collect gold from performing Inquisitions).
Catholic countries who reject the opportunity get a hit with other Catholic countries, but avoid the instability and unhappiness caused by inquisitions.

Probably I'd hardcode the AI to go with option 1.

Good idea. The thirty years war was an important event in European history and was not in RFC and didn't really happen in my (relatively few) playthroughs of RFC Europe. This will make it more important of a choice whether or not to switch to Protestantism or not.

Linkman226
Mar 08, 2011, 05:59 PM
Come to think of it, I might even make it a war between Prots. and Catholics.

I wonder how that would affect balance though.

J. pride
Mar 08, 2011, 06:07 PM
Just a few suggestions regarding the Middle East and North Africa.

1) Ideas were thrown around for the rebirth for different civs.( i dont exactly know what u mean by rebirth; if its in only 600 Ad, if its a whole diff civ like the Italian with new leaderhead, building, unit)
If the rebirth is like that of the Italians then here are my suggestions:
1) Carthage should respawn as Almorovids (they can change names as time goes along just like Iran). The reason i say this is because Carthage is supposed to represent North Western Africa and from 600 ad onwards it was the Berber North African kingdoms that represented Maghrib (north-western Africa). Anyways both Tunisia or Lebanon are recently formed states that have had little impact before 1900s; so even if Moroccan kingdoms are a geographical stretch it is an even bigger historical stretch to include Lebanon. it would be much better for gameplay reasons to spawn as the Berbers and try to conquer Iberia and Mali or spawn as spain and complete the reconquista. I dont want a Cordoban civ because Iberia is not the homeland of Berbers and Iberian peninsula is already too crowded.

2) Babylon as Iraq. Im going to use the same logic as the previous one. Iraq is insignificant and Arabia already represent the Abbasids ( historical timeperiod is too close for Abbasid to spawn anyways). The only two realistic options for gameplay and historical reasons are the Fatimids(also includes Malmuks/name change should do) and the Central Asian Timurids (also includes Emirate of Bukhara/ name change). My personal vote goes for Central Asian Emirate but both will suffice especially due to the lack of civs in the region in 600 Ad scinerio.
3). Persia as Iran: agree with Linkman that names should be changed according to time period. Although i do want to change Uhv.

We can discuss the Historical Goals, spawns, leaderheads, units, buildings if u guys agree. If approved, I will discuss the following in a few days timeperiod. :D

P.s: Italian spawn should be moved back, Harrappa probably shouldnt be represented just like the Hitites to make room for Iran, India and Arabia

Linkman226
Mar 08, 2011, 08:54 PM
Guys I've created a wikispaces page (http://projectsynthesis.wikispaces.com/) to suggest new ideas. Write now all ideas concerning COUNTRIES or RESPAWNS should be discussed there, as I won't be doing countries/ respawns for a bit, and I'd rather not have really good ideas suggested now get lost in the forum when I'm looking for them a month from now.

Just a few suggestions regarding the Middle East and North Africa.

1) Ideas were thrown around for the rebirth for different civs.( i dont exactly know what u mean by rebirth; if its in only 600 Ad, if its a whole diff civ like the Italian with new leaderhead, building, unit)
If the rebirth is like that of the Italians then here are my suggestions:
1) Carthage should respawn as Almorovids (they can change names as time goes along just like Iran). The reason i say this is because Carthage is supposed to represent North Western Africa and from 600 ad onwards it was the Berber North African kingdoms that represented Maghrib (north-western Africa). Anyways neither Tunisia or Lebanon are recently formed states that have had little impact before 1900s; so even if Moroccan kingdoms are a geographical stretch it is an even bigger historical stretch to include Lebanon. Anyways it would be much better for gameplay reasons to spawn as the Berbers and try to conquer Iberia and Mali or spawn as spain and complete the reconquista. I dont want a Cordoban civ because Iberia is not the homeland of Berbers and Iberian peninsula is already too crowded.


Yes, like the Italians.

Considering that a respawn is effectively the creation of a whole new civ, I might try that (the Almoravids idea).


2) Babylon as Iraq. Im going to use the same logic as the previous one. Iraq is insignificant and Arabia already represent the Abbasids ( historical timeperiod is too close for Abbasid to spawn anyways). The only two realistic options for gameplay and historical reasons are the Fatimids(also includes Malmuks/name change should do) and the Central Asian Timurids (also includes Emirate of Bukhara/ name change). My personal vote goes for Central Asia Emirate but both will suffice especially due to the lack of (muslim or any) civs in the game in 600 Ad scinerio.

To be honest I was thinking of making a brand new Central Asian civ (rather than merely a rebirth). Got suggestions? Put them in the wiki.

We can discuss the Historical Goals, spawns, leaderheads, units, buildings if u guys agree. If approved, I will discuss the following in a few days timeperiod. :D

In the wiki.

P.s: Italian spawn should be moved back, Harrappa probably shouldnt be represented just like the Hitites to make room for Iran, India and Arabia

I thought that moving the Italian spawn forward would be a better idea. Why do you prefer that the spawn be moved back?
Personally I thought that the Hittites would be a good idea to be in the game as Indie cities, mostly to prevent Phoenician colonization of that area.

J. pride
Mar 08, 2011, 09:10 PM
I thought that moving the Italian spawn forward would be a better idea. Why do you prefer that the spawn be moved back?
Personally I thought that the Hittites would be a good idea to be in the game as Indie cities, mostly to prevent Phoenician colonization of that area.
I meant moved back as in to happening later. I was trying to say the same thing as u :D.For the Phoenicians is it possible to totally stop them from settling into Anatolia. The reason i do'nt want these indies is becuz they might inhibit the settling of later civs but then again i don't play 3000 Bc that often.

Ill post about the respawn in wiki spaces from now on but one last thing. Since Babylon as Iraq wont (in my opinion) work, wats ur plan. Fatimids (and other egyptian muslim dynasties) can be a respawn of Egypt but that still leaves the question about Babylon?

Linkman226
Mar 08, 2011, 09:50 PM
I meant moved back as in to happening later. I was trying to say the same thing as u :D.For the Phoenicians is it possible to totally stop them from settling into Anatolia. The reason i do'nt want these indies is becuz they might inhibit the settling of later civs but then again i don't play 3000 Bc that often.

Ill post about the respawn in wiki spaces from now on but one last thing. Since Babylon as Iraq wont (in my opinion) work, wats ur plan. Fatimids (and other egyptian muslim dynasties) can be a respawn of Egypt but that still leaves the question about Babylon?

More elaborate discussion can continue in the wiki but, briefly:
Either:

1) Iraq
2) No respawn; just the regular respawn that can happen after Nationalism, like in standard RFC

I, for one, prefer choice 2.

As for Indie cities:

The Hittite city/ cities would flip to Byzantium/ Turkey anyways.
Harappa- The plan is to have it razed by barbs. Worse comes to worst it flips to India.

J. pride
Mar 08, 2011, 10:29 PM
The Hittite city/ cities would flip to Byzantium/ Turkey anyways.
Harappa- The plan is to have it razed by barbs. Worse comes to worst it flips to India.

The name of the Hitite city would unhistorical and their placement might not be to the choice of players.

I though you wanted to add Taxila. Since Taxila is in between the mountain and river ( the pass) and Harappa is one tile south east(other side of the river) it might not work out. Id rather have an indie Taxila that flips to nobody but can be conquered by Persia or India.

We really dont much about the above civs and their role in history is also minimal

Linkman226
Mar 08, 2011, 11:16 PM
Alright, good point.

Linkman226
Mar 09, 2011, 05:16 PM
Guys a quick poll:

Should Inquisitors be allowed to remove Holy Cities?

(the Holy City would be relocated, but still)

hoplitejoe
Mar 09, 2011, 05:25 PM
no, that does not happen in the real world. (at least I can't think of an example of that ever happening)

J. pride
Mar 09, 2011, 05:33 PM
How do u work the wiki thing; would'nt it be easier just to make another thread.

As for the Inquisitor, perhaps in rare and unhistorical cases.
By rare, i mean removing Zoroastarianism for Sihraz.
By unhistorical, i mean some wierd scenario where Confucianism's holy city is in Iraq (i dont even know if that can happen).

srpt
Mar 09, 2011, 05:41 PM
I had a religious unit idea I thought you guys might like. Its kinda obvious so forgive me if its already out there:

the pilgrim

send him to a holy city, perform a "pilgrimage" mission and receive an appropriate missionary back home to start converting your cities. you could also get a friendly point with the owner of the holy city, in addition to the friendly points you get for converting to his religion, so it could be useful diplomatically, and great for those times when the religion you want just won't spread to you. probably needs to be able to cross borders to be really useable.

IrishDragon
Mar 09, 2011, 06:23 PM
If it can remove holy cities, there should be big penalties for it, in the real world I imagine there'd be uproar

Linkman226
Mar 09, 2011, 07:09 PM
How do u work the wiki thing; would'nt it be easier just to make another thread.


You have to create an account first. I'll post a guide soon if you still can't figure it out.

I had a religious unit idea I thought you guys might like. Its kinda obvious so forgive me if its already out there:

the pilgrim

send him to a holy city, perform a "pilgrimage" mission and receive an appropriate missionary back home to start converting your cities. you could also get a friendly point with the owner of the holy city, in addition to the friendly points you get for converting to his religion, so it could be useful diplomatically, and great for those times when the religion you want just won't spread to you. probably needs to be able to cross borders to be really useable.

To be honest I really don't see the point. It seems superfluous if you ask me.

Does anyone else?

Also, how bout this wonder:

Empire State Building (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15854)

I am also creating a SVN, like Leoreth in DoC, so you guys can actually start playing immediately- although the official release won't be till Friday.

As for Holy City Removal- I'm gonna implement it in the SVN, see how it plays out. I might ante up the penalties or remove it altogether in the final release.

Since the Inquisition mod includes the religious victory option, what do you guys think is a minimal religion threshold level (i.e., percentage of your state religion in the world)? Right now it's at 51%

Gruekiller
Mar 09, 2011, 07:14 PM
I like the ESB as a wonder.

Linkman226
Mar 09, 2011, 07:18 PM
As did I.

The plan is to include it in the American UHV's

Linkman226
Mar 09, 2011, 10:25 PM
Alright, guys, the SVN is officially OUT which means you can start playing/ testing!

See the original first post of the thread for SVN instructions, and info about what the SVN is if you don't know.

Moshe Dayan
Mar 10, 2011, 12:25 AM
Alright, guys, the SVN is officially OUT which means you can start playing/ testing!

See the original first post of the thread for SVN instructions, and info about what the SVN is if you don't know.

What is the actual URL of the repository? It's not on the first post...

Leoreth
Mar 10, 2011, 05:16 AM
How did you implement the "plantations connect resources" feature? With the actsAsFort XML entry?

J. pride
Mar 10, 2011, 03:28 PM
Im getting access is denied error whenever i try to download the svn

Linkman226
Mar 10, 2011, 03:29 PM
I believe it's called <bActsAsCity>

Linkman226
Mar 10, 2011, 03:31 PM
Im getting access is denied error whenever i try to download the svn

You have to put in the this link:

https://subversion.assembla.com/svn/projectsynthesis/

Not the link to the SVN repository, which is:

https://www.assembla.com/code/projectsynthesis/subversion/nodes

J. pride
Mar 10, 2011, 03:38 PM
You have to put in the this link:

https://subversion.assembla.com/svn/projectsynthesis/

Not the link to the SVN repository, which is:

https://www.assembla.com/code/projectsynthesis/subversion/nodes

No i dont think thats the problem. Same thing happened with doc. I cant chekout from mod. For doc, i went inside the mod folder and cheked out from doc version. Then it created a new doc(svn version) in the original doc which i had to paste in mod folder and then i played. For ur mod that method does not work as it does not recognize ur mod and sends me to the main Bts screen. I suspect a administrative prob (even though im the admistrator)

Linkman226
Mar 10, 2011, 03:40 PM
Are you sure you names the new folder the SVN creates 'RFC Synthesis'?

Also, anyone else experiencing this problem?

J. pride
Mar 10, 2011, 03:43 PM
no, I named it rfc project synthesis as it said in the instructions (i think):crazyeye:

Linkman226
Mar 10, 2011, 03:44 PM
no, I named it rfc project synthesis as it said in the instructions (i think):crazyeye:

Oh crap

My bad, it should be named RFC Synthesis

Try that and then try downloading it.

Updating instructions.

hoplitejoe
Mar 10, 2011, 03:49 PM
when will the non-clever people version come out?

Linkman226
Mar 10, 2011, 03:50 PM
For those of you guys doing the SVN, do you prefer that the 'Orion's Inquisition Mod' popup at the start of the game stay there, or no? It does provide a bit of useful info, so I wasn't sure if you guys wanted to keep it.

Also:


I haven't yet put the new resources on the map- only the resource spawns.
CityNameManager is still not changed.
Decaying resources will probably tweaked.

J. pride
Mar 10, 2011, 04:03 PM
Not sure if anybody else is experiencing the same prob but im getting defeated on spawn

Linkman226
Mar 10, 2011, 04:04 PM
Download new version. Just uploaded it. I overlooked having to add the new resources to Consts.py :rolleyes:

Leoreth
Mar 10, 2011, 04:40 PM
I believe it's called <bActsAsCity>
Ah yes right, thanks. So plantations can now be passed by ships as well?

J. pride
Mar 10, 2011, 04:44 PM
Wow! just cant believe u made all these changes in a matter of days :thumbsup:.

Its going to be a bit difficult to place and balance those resources. U might have to add the new resources at the expense of old ones for balancing purposes.

Some minor things u should consider: (shouldnt take u that long)
1. Move the stone in Tisfun one tile west.
2. place wheat one tile west of Tripoli and move the fish one tile North east (out of reach of Tripoli). This way Tripolis is not overpowered but Tunis is still a good spot to settle. (cuz then the 2 cities dont have to share the fish and are neither are overpowered).
3. Please replace Anitoch with Damascus or Aleppo. Anitoch played a really minor role in Medieval Age and afterwards. (tried convincing Leoreth but he thought Damascus isnt a good city spot). Moving resources around will solve the problem (only in 600 ad).

IrishDragon
Mar 10, 2011, 05:10 PM
Looking forward to trying this.

Two more ideas I think would be good; implementing the MAD nukes mod: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168858

Adding Tibet as a minor civ, along with Korea as a full civ

J. pride
Mar 10, 2011, 06:04 PM
Tibet and korea should perhaps take a backseat to some of the more important spawns that needed.
p.s: Linkman can u plz make another thread for the New civs instead of the wiki page. This way alot more ppl would be able to give feedback (on wikispace only ppl that are really involved with ur mod will give feedback; over here everybody and anybody would be able to help u.

Linkman226
Mar 10, 2011, 06:51 PM
Ah yes right, thanks. So plantations can now be passed by ships as well?

Yes. Personally I don't see an issue with this. I mean, plenty of cities were formerly plantations and plenty of plantations had all the workings of cities.

Couple this with culture generated by improvements (soon to come) and it'll make a lot more sense.

Wow! just cant believe u made all these changes in a matter of days :thumbsup:.

The real :thumbsup: goes to the original modders whose work I borrowed and the creators of Winmerge. Only a little of this was done by my own hand.

Its going to be a bit difficult to place and balance those resources. U might have to add the new resources at the expense of old ones for balancing purposes.

Currently I'm adding the resources in as was done in RFCM:BWS. We'll see how that works out, and then go from there in future releases.

Some minor things u should consider: (shouldnt take u that long)
1. Move the stone in Tisfun one tile west.
2. place wh be shared)eat one tile west of Tripoli and move the fish one tile North east (out of reach of Tripoli). This way Tripolis is not overpowered but Tunis is still a good spot to settle. (cuz then the 2 cities dont have to share the fish and are neither are overpowered).
3. Please replace Anitoch with Damascus or Aleppo. Anitoch played a really minor role in Medieval Age and afterwards. (tried convincing Leoreth but he thought Damascus isnt a good city spot). Moving resources around will solve the problem (only in 600 ad).

'Yes' to all three, at least for the next update, but if that screws anything up, I'm changing stuff around again.

Looking forward to trying this.

Two more ideas I think would be good; implementing the MAD nukes mod: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168858

Adding Tibet as a minor civ, along with Korea as a full civ

Concerning MAD- I was thinking about this earleir when creating this mod, but I chose not to include it because it's a bit unrealistic to have a nuked city turn to a patch of water.

As for Tibet and Korea, refer to what J. pride said:

Tibet and korea should perhaps take a backseat to some of the more important spawns that needed.

So they're on my agenda. But near the bottom of the list.

p.s: Linkman can u plz make another thread for the New civs instead of the wiki page. This way alot more ppl would be able to give feedback (on wikispace only ppl that are really involved with ur mod will give feedback; over here everybody and anybody would be able to help u.

Yes.

IrishDragon
Mar 10, 2011, 07:20 PM
Concerning MAD- I was thinking about this earleir when creating this mod, but I chose not to include it because it's a bit unrealistic to have a nuked city turn to a patch of water.

As for Tibet and Korea, refer to what J. pride said:


Would it be possible to change it, to keep the targeting part and possibly the destruction of the cities, but leave out the part that changes the tiles to water? It's not particularly important but I think it would be fairly cool if something similar could be implemented down the line

Linkman226
Mar 10, 2011, 11:25 PM
Would it be possible to change it, to keep the targeting part and possibly the destruction of the cities, but leave out the part that changes the tiles to water? It's not particularly important but I think it would be fairly cool if something similar could be implemented down the line

This is certainly a viable option. I will have to look into the MAD mod. It may be in a future release then.

when will the non-clever people version come out?

The eleventh, aka, later today


My question earlier went unanswered:
For those of you guys doing the SVN, do you prefer that the 'Orion's Inquisition Mod' popup at the start of the game stay there, or no? It does provide a bit of useful info, so I wasn't sure if you guys wanted to keep it.

J. pride
Mar 10, 2011, 11:40 PM
For those of you guys doing the SVN, do you prefer that the 'Orion's Inquisition Mod' popup at the start of the game stay there, or no? It does provide a bit of useful info, so I wasn't sure if you guys wanted to keep it.
I think it doesn't make a difference; after a few versions it wouldnt be needed since everybody will be used the new feature. just keep it for the 2nd version. Then do as u see fit

As for changes regarding damascus, Tripoli and Baghdad; will they be found in todays release or later. Are they difficult to implement??

The second two just require changing resource location so they should be implemented as they would'nt affect gameplay that much.
Baghdad: moving the stone east or west of the city location.
Tripoli: move fish out of Tripolis reach but make it accessible to Tunis city location (perhaps one tile north west; right on top of Tunis). Add a wheat east of Tripoli to balance it). I noticed that my last post had some grammar errors.:lol:

The first change requires u to make a decision on where u want to change the city to (damascus or aleppo). And then u have to move the resources accordingly, research Byzantine name for the cities and finally work out the flips

Additional info to help u decide:
Aleppo: Aleppo was known to antiquity as Khalpe, Khalibon and to the Greeks as Beroea. It was the 3rd largest Byzantine city at one point (anitoch and Canstantinople were bigger. Under the Arabs the city was regional hub but was overshadowed by Damascus; the capital of Arab empire. Under later Turkic dynasties both cities became equal to one another with Aleppo being the center of Northern Syria and Damascus of the South.

Damascus: Was an important regional city under the Byzantines (although not nearly as important as Anitochia and Aleppo). The city gained its prominence after being conquered by the Arabs and becoming the most influential city in the Levant. Over time Damascus lost some of its pristige to cities like Aleppo and tripoli (of Lebanon). But even to this day, Damascus is still considered the cultural capital of greater Syria.

Whichever one of these cities u choose make sure they flip to Turkey (to encourage their conquest into the middle east). Additionaly, you should also try flipping the city to the arabs.

You should try these changes as Svn, see how they work out. Change them as u see fit or even reverse them if nothing else works

p.s : wat do u mean by decaying resources and plantation connect resources

Linkman226
Mar 11, 2011, 01:39 AM
I think it doesn't make a difference; after a few versions it wouldnt be needed since everybody will be used the new feature. just keep it for the 2nd version. Then do as u see fit

That seems like a good idea.

As for changes regarding damascus, Tripoli and Baghdad; will they be found in todays release or later. Are they difficult to implement??

I'll move the stone from Tisfun and do the Tunis/ Tripoli fixes. But I'm not sure if I can move Antioch and redistribute resources in time for my self imposed deadline today.

Additional info to help u decide:
Aleppo: Aleppo was known to antiquity as Khalpe, Khalibon and to the Greeks as Beroea. It was the 3rd largest Byzantine city at one point (anitoch and Canstantinople were bigger. Under the Arabs the city was regional hub but was overshadowed by Damascus; the capital of Arab empire. Under later Turkic dynasties both cities became equal to one another with Aleppo being the center of Northern Syria and Damascus of the South.

Damascus: Was an important regional city under the Byzantines (although not nearly as important as Anitochia and Aleppo). The city gained its prominence after being conquered by the Arabs and becoming the most influential city in the Levant. Over time Damascus lost some of its pristige to cities like Aleppo and tripoli (of Lebanon). But even to this day, Damascus is still considered the cultural capital of greater Syria.

Whichever one of these cities u choose make sure they flip to Turkey (to encourage their conquest into the middle east). Additionaly, you should also try flipping the city to the arabs.

Thanks, this should go in the SVN by tomorrow or the day after; however it won't be in the first release.

p.s : wat do u mean by decaying resources and plantation connect resources

Decaying resources- Resources now decay over time. Over usage leads to exhausting them.

Plantations connect resources- Plantations, like forts, now link resources.

SouthernKing
Mar 11, 2011, 03:06 PM
Just tried it.
Great job!!!
Looking forward to future versions.

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 01:27 PM
Sorry guys but I wasn't able to meet the deadline. Unfortunately I'm having a couple of weird bugs that I'll need to iron out.

Some map changes:


Edited 600 AD start to include new resources
Added Ath Cliath (Dublin) as an Indie city (600 AD)
Removed marsh from Indus River Valley
Incorporated Panopticon's Dynamic Terrain mod


And I forgot to mention earlier, but I incorporated (a while back) Panopticon's American Immigration mod (which allows immigrants to bring their religion with them).

Moshe Dayan
Mar 12, 2011, 02:57 PM
How do i turn off the decaying resources? They make reaching 1 billion people pretty much impossible...

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 03:22 PM
How do i turn off the decaying resources? They make reaching 1 billion people pretty much impossible...

First off all, that's only realistic- if you want to reach a population of a billion people in real life you're gonna need to cope with the environmental damage. That doesn't mean not using resources, period, but rather MANAGING them properly. Resources recover over time if you don't let your cities work those tiles.

Secondly, I haven't yet tweaked this component to perfection; this will happen in future releases. I plan on making some more resource spawns to compensate.

If you insist on removing it, I first need to know how much coding skill you have, and how much patience you have.

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 03:25 PM
Oh, and I removed the mountain from Sri Lanka WHICH MEANS:


http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/122/civ4screenshot0149.jpg (http://img851.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0149.jpg/)


Obviously I'll need a city name for that. Ideas, anyone?

EDIT: Interestingly enough, the Sri Lankan mountain is actually in the SOUTH of the island (http://www.ourlanka.com/maps/sri_lanka_rel00.jpg). Why Rhye put it in the north is beyond me...

civ_king
Mar 12, 2011, 06:46 PM
For the Portuguese & British call the Northern part Jaffna and the Southern part Columbo

Also remember that Ceylon needs a tea resource and spices (cinnamon)

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 06:56 PM
I seriously wanna strangle the Victory Screen right now.

Would anyone object if I removed the religious victory? It's causing some problems.

civ_king
Mar 12, 2011, 07:11 PM
I seriously wanna strangle the Victory Screen right now.

Would anyone object if I removed the religious victory? It's causing some problems.
It is your mod. It would be a good idea to get the mod stable and then slowly add and fix the more problematic parts

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 07:14 PM
Commenting it out for now.

J. pride
Mar 12, 2011, 07:27 PM
Since u have more time to release the first version:

1. You should change the spawn area for the Chinese (Louyang) and Indians (Pataliputra).
2. Would you have time to change Anitochia?

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 07:28 PM
Since u have more time to release the first version:

1. You should change the spawn area for the Chinese (Louyang) and Indians (Pataliputra).
2. Would you have time to change Anitochia?

Concerning one, in which map?

J. pride
Mar 12, 2011, 07:30 PM
Concerning one, in which map?

3000 BC for both India and China. Although for India u should do as u see fit (not very familiar with the region)

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 07:53 PM
Fixed Religious Victory problem.

Excellent! Only a few map fixes away from a release!

J. pride
Mar 12, 2011, 08:00 PM
So, are u planning on including the changes?

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 08:46 PM
Not sure about number 2

It'll definitely be one of the first changes in the SVN after the release of Version .1

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 10:44 PM
Guys, feedback please? On the new components. Especially of the negative type, because that's where I need to improve.

Also, I've decided the 3000 BC map will not contain the new resources in the first release. Way too time-intensive.

I especially need feedback on the decaying resources so I can tweak the values.

civ_king
Mar 12, 2011, 10:47 PM
Guys, feedback please? On the new components. Especially of the negative type, because that's where I need to improve.

Also, I've decided the 3000 BC map will not contain the new resources in the first release. Way too time-intensive.

I especially need feedback on the decaying resources so I can tweak the values.

Does the 600 AD Map have the new resources?

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 10:50 PM
Yes. Amongst other map changes.

civ_king
Mar 12, 2011, 10:52 PM
Do the resources spawn at certain dates?

Linkman226
Mar 12, 2011, 10:53 PM
There are preplaced new resources only in 600 AD.

The resource spawns are in both. (along withs oem terrain spawns, like flood plains around the Indus, etc.)

civ_king
Mar 12, 2011, 10:55 PM
So for example you have tea and spices on Ceylon?
Potatoes starting in the Andes and working their way throughout Europe from the 16th century?

J. pride
Mar 12, 2011, 10:57 PM
Can u specify the changes?

And some of those resources like tobacco,tea and coffee are only significant after colonial age and I believe tobacco is from America and coffee from Africa so u wud hav to spread them like the spread of new world resources


So some of these resources will have to be discovered with a certain tech and others will have to spread like potatoes from Peru after Columbian exchange

civ_king
Mar 12, 2011, 11:02 PM
Yes, tobacco is from North America and Coffee is from Ethiopia

J. pride
Mar 12, 2011, 11:13 PM
Then there wud need to be whole new spread mechanic for resources

Take for example coffee it wud first appear in YemAn and Ethiopia and then spread to middle east then east Africa then India and then finally to south america,west Africa and south east Asia after 1700s

civ_king
Mar 12, 2011, 11:50 PM
I propose that we have resources spawning at appropriate times at places so we don't have them spawning in batches, but in ones and twos

To support my proposal I am willing to do extensive research on resource cultivation and when mining deposits were found

J. pride
Mar 12, 2011, 11:54 PM
I propose that we have resources spawning at appropriate times at places so we don't have them spawning in batches, but in ones and twos

To support my proposal I am willing to do extensive research on resource cultivation and when mining deposits were found


I think ur idea is similar to mine but how does urs work (hypothetical situation)?

civ_king
Mar 13, 2011, 12:16 AM
I think ur idea is similar to mine but how does urs work (hypothetical situation)?

Coffee for example would start in Ethiopia, spread to
Aden, Yemen ~1454;
Karnataka, Indian, ~1670
Java, Indonesia and Surinam ~1699
Martinique, Caribbean ~1720
several in Brazil ~1822

J. pride
Mar 13, 2011, 12:30 AM
Coffee for example would start in Ethiopia, spread to
Aden, Yemen ~1454;
Karnataka, Indian, ~1670
Java, Indonesia and Surinam ~1699
Martinique, Caribbean ~1720
several in Brazil ~1822

Beautiful exactly as I picture it.

One little suggestion, coffee should spawn in ethiopia in 1400 and not be there from 3000 bc.

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 12:53 AM
So for example you have tea and spices on Ceylon?
Potatoes starting in the Andes and working their way throughout Europe from the 16th century?

Ceylon does not have spices and tea yet. I overlooked that. I'll add it in.

Potatoes are already implemented as you said.

Can u specify the changes?

Spawns

450AD:
Tea in Japan, 2 in China, Myanmar (Burma), Tibet, Manchuria

1250 AD:
Tea in Iran, 2 in Turkey, forest and tundra to overwrite the swamp Leoreth put in Newfoundland

1600AD:
Potato in Dublin, France, Germany, Ukraine
2 coffees in Turkey, 1 in India
2 teas in Borneo

1700AD:
2 potatoes in China, 1 in England
3 coffees in Brazil, 2 in the Caribbean, 2 in Colombia, 1 in East Indies
2 tobaccos in Brazil

1850AD:
2 coffees in West Africa
4 potatoes in North America
Tobacco in India, China

I propose that we have resources spawning at appropriate times at places so we don't have them spawning in batches, but in ones and twos

To support my proposal I am willing to do extensive research on resource cultivation and when mining deposits were found

As you can see, the resource spawns (and even some of the pre-places) are crude; I took them from other mods. If you could do this research for me, that'd be fantastic. I just need you to put your research into the following format to make things easier for me:

1) Go to Civ4Config (civ.ini) and set the cheatmode option to "chipotle"
2) Open up 600AD, play as anyone (preferably a civ that starts with no autoplay to save loading time)
3) Press ctr+Z. This will reveal the whole map
4) Conduct your research on resource spread
5) Determine what resources should be added, and where, and find the respective tiles on the map
6) Go to those tiles and press SHIFT while hovering over them. This will give you their coordinates in the hover text.
7) Give me the resource spawns as a list in the following format:


gc.getMap().plot(x, y).setBonusType(iResource) #Description


(x,y) is the coordinates. Space after the comma. iResource is the name of the resource with an i infront of it. For example, potato would be iPotato or Tobacco would be iTobacco. Description would be where you put a one or two word description of where the resource is (be sure to leave the # there). This is for coders, like me, so we know where it is. An example, from the code:


gc.getMap().plot(33, 52).setBonusType(iPotato) #North America
gc.getMap().plot(88, 37).setBonusType(iTobacco) #India
gc.getMap().plot(104, 44).setBonusType(iTobacco) #China
gc.getMap().plot(52, 26).setBonusType(iCoffee) #West Africa



Thanks, and good luck!

civ_king
Mar 13, 2011, 01:07 AM
Beautiful exactly as I picture it.

One little suggestion, coffee should spawn in ethiopia in 1400 and not be there from 3000 bc.

We have no idea when coffee cultivation began in Ethiopia. Also since Coffee was banned by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church some time before the 12th century we should have some time before that be the spawn date

J. pride
Mar 13, 2011, 01:18 AM
Ur locations are all good but turkey with 4 extra resources??

The Indus region might be overlooked when considering tea and tobacco. What happened to coffee in east africa and YemAn and potatos in Peru, the places where they came from

Giving a region 2 of the same resources should be extremely rare and small regions like turkey, Columbia should not get more than one of each resource. The only exception should large places like brazil, India and china and even they shouldn't get more than 2

Did u replace existing resources when adding new ones (like replacing when adding potatoes) or else some regions might get really overpowered?

civ_king
Mar 13, 2011, 01:44 AM
Ceylon has three possible resources, spices ~1769, coffee ~1825 and tea ~1867. I recommend that tea is one of the three (Ceylon and tea are practically synonyms!)

I agree with J. pride, resources should come to a country by one, two in uncommon cases and three might only be for coffee in Brazil (they corned the market turning it from the drink of aristocracy into an everyman's drink and Brazil is very large).

J. pride, is there anyway you could upload the SVN copy somewhere and give me the link?

J. pride
Mar 13, 2011, 03:17 AM
I think u shud change the spawn locations and dates of coffee to what civ king posted

Originally Posted by civ_king
Coffee for example would start in Ethiopia, spread to
Aden, Yemen ~1454;
Karnataka, Indian, ~1670
Java, Indonesia and Surinam ~1699
Martinique, Caribbean ~1720
several in Brazil ~1822

The only addition I wud make is add a coffee in northern syria in 1670 and a coffee in columbia and/or central America in 1840s, and perhaps add coffee to YemAn a bit earlier. If these dates aren't possible just round them off.

civ_king
Mar 13, 2011, 04:33 AM
I think u shud change the spawn locations and dates of coffee to what civ king posted

Originally Posted by civ_king
Coffee for example would start in Ethiopia, spread to
Aden, Yemen ~1454;
Karnataka, Indian, ~1670
Java, Indonesia and Surinam ~1699
Martinique, Caribbean ~1720
several in Brazil ~1822

The only addition I wud make is add a coffee in northern syria in 1670 and a coffee in columbia and/or central America in 1840s, and perhaps add coffee to YemAn a bit earlier. If these dates aren't possible just round them off.

Sounds good to me. Remember, I am giving you the approximate dates that widespread cultivation happened. Feel free to tweak the dates as needed.

Leoreth
Mar 13, 2011, 09:28 AM
Do you plan to do something to counterbalance the increased amount of happiness/health created by the new resources?

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 11:13 AM
We have no idea when coffee cultivation began in Ethiopia. Also since Coffee was banned by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church some time before the 12th century we should have some time before that be the spawn date

I would think it should be there from the beginning, since you can only access them with calendar anyways.

Ur locations are all good but turkey with 4 extra resources??

As I said, this needs considerable tweaking. I just copied everything from RFCM:BWS for the moment.

The Indus region might be overlooked when considering tea and tobacco. What happened to coffee in east africa and YemAn and potatos in Peru, the places where they came from

What do you mean overlooked? As in not included?

As for Peru, Yemen, and East Africa- I only listed resource spawns in my earlier post, not the preplaced ones.

Giving a region 2 of the same resources should be extremely rare and small regions like turkey, Columbia should not get more than one of each resource. The only exception should large places like brazil, India and china and even they shouldn't get more than 2

I agree. By Columbia I was referring to the whole of Nortern South America in general- which is a pretty big area.

Did u replace existing resources when adding new ones (like replacing when adding potatoes) or else some regions might get really overpowered?

As I said, tweaking is necessarily.

Ceylon has three possible resources, spices ~1769, coffee ~1825 and tea ~1867. I recommend that tea is one of the three (Ceylon and tea are practically synonyms!)

Sadly Ceylon is only two boxes. So Spices and tea seems to make the most sense.

I agree with J. pride, resources should come to a country by one, two in uncommon cases and three might only be for coffee in Brazil (they corned the market turning it from the drink of aristocracy into an everyman's drink and Brazil is very large).

Duly noted.

J. pride, is there anyway you could upload the SVN copy somewhere and give me the link?

Yours isn't working? I'm releasing tonight so hang on, for now..

I think u shud change the spawn locations and dates of coffee to what civ king posted

Originally Posted by civ_king
Coffee for example would start in Ethiopia, spread to
Aden, Yemen ~1454;
Karnataka, Indian, ~1670
Java, Indonesia and Surinam ~1699
Martinique, Caribbean ~1720
several in Brazil ~1822

The only addition I wud make is add a coffee in northern syria in 1670 and a coffee in columbia and/or central America in 1840s, and perhaps add coffee to YemAn a bit earlier. If these dates aren't possible just round them off.

If you could type this up into the format I posted earlier, that'd make things easier. Thanks.

Sounds good to me. Remember, I am giving you the approximate dates that widespread cultivation happened. Feel free to tweak the dates as needed.

Right. Thanks.

Do you plan to do something to counterbalance the increased amount of happiness/health created by the new resources?

Decaying resources.

Leoreth
Mar 13, 2011, 12:31 PM
So that means certain types of resources disappear from the game completely over time? Otherwise it'll still be fairly easy to achieve a large happiness surplus via trading.

civ_king
Mar 13, 2011, 01:11 PM
My Civ IV computer isn't connected to the internet and my internet computer is running OS X (sadly no free SVN tools).

J. pride
Mar 13, 2011, 01:29 PM
J. pride, is there anyway you could upload the SVN copy somewhere and give me the link?

Um, I have the copy of the svc but ive never uploaded before. If u need it before tonight i can try to give it a shot :) .

What do you mean overlooked? As in not included?

You could add a tea on the eastern side of Indus

If you could type this up into the format I posted earlier, that'd make things easier. Thanks.

I do'nt think that i can help u with the formatting part :( (i didnt get half of wat was on it, especially civ.ini). Although i will do my best to help u with the researching part.



Talking about research heres what i found on Tobacco (years can be tweaked to the the nearest turn or even few turns)

Tobacco was originally found all over the Americas before Columbian Contact but never in large enough quantities to be put; it was recreational rather than productional.

Tobacco can first appear in the Cuba.
1550- Spread to Virginia and Brazil
1620- Tobacco spread to Turkey and India
1650- Tobacco spreads to China
If u want to put additional Tobacco 1 more can appear in China, India and Brazil
6 to 9 Tobacco

Update for Coffee:
Starts in Ethiopia (id rather have it spawn in 1100 then have it there from beginning becuz its usage properties were discovered by the Yemani Sufi Abu al-Hasan al-Shadhili)
1) 1400: Coffee spread to Yeman
2)1500: Coffee spread to Northern Syria (near Turkey)
3)1670: Coffee spread to South Western India (Malabar)
4)1690: Coffee spreads to Java
5)Martinique ~1720
6)2 in Brazil ~1820
7)1850- Coffee spread to Colombia, Central America, and one in Northern Vietnam-Southern China region
11 Coffee resources in total



Now for Tea
1) 2 Tea resources in Southern China in 4000Bc
2) 2 Tea appear in North Eastern India, and 1 spread in Thailand/Vietnam region in 500BC
3) Tea spread to Iran and Japan 200 BC
4) Tea spreads to Turkey 1300 ad
5) Tea spread to Indonesia 1600 ad
6) Tea spread to East Africa 1700 ad
10 Tea resources in total

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 02:44 PM
Guys I'm releasing it now.

DOWNLOAD HERE- V .1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16758)

A lot of the map changes you guys recommended aren't being implemented yet (Antioch, Baghdad stone, Chinese/ Indian spawn changes). I wanted to release it ASAP because I'm going away for a bit and I won't have access to my modding files.

My plan now is to play two or three games out fully to the end( hopefully you guiys can do the same)and find bugs, things that need to be fixed, etc, and create a list. These things will be fixed, put into the SVN, and then I'll get working on some more additions.

So that means certain types of resources disappear from the game completely over time? Otherwise it'll still be fairly easy to achieve a large happiness surplus via trading.

Yes. This also needs to be balanced a bit, but it helps counterbalance some of the bonuses of the new resources.

Leoreth, where are the specific growth/ research/ production bonuses/ penalties for each civ stored? I.e, if I wanted to nerf a civ's tech rate, where are those values in the dll?


Um, I have the copy of the svc but ive never uploaded before. If u need it before tonight i can try to give it a shot :) .


You could add a tea on the eastern side of Indus



I do'nt think that i can help u with the formatting part :( (i didnt get half of wat was on it, especially civ.ini). Although i will do my best to help u with the researching part.

Talking about research heres what i found on Tobacco (years can be tweaked to the the nearest turn or even few turns)

Tobacco was originally found all over the Americas before Columbian Contact but never in large enough quantities to be put; it was recreational rather than productional.

Tobacco can first appear in the Cuba.
1550- Spread to Virginia and Brazil
1620- Tobacco spread to Turkey and India
1650- Tobacco spreads to China
If u want to put additional Tobacco 1 more can appear in China, India and Brazil
6 to 9 Tobacco

Update for Coffee:
Starts in Ethiopia (id rather have it spawn in 1100 then have it there from beginning becuz its usage properties were discovered by the Yemani Sufi Abu al-Hasan al-Shadhili)
1) 1400: Coffee spread to Yeman
2)1500: Coffee spread to Northern Syria (near Turkey)
3)1670: Coffee spread to South Western India (Malabar)
4)1690: Coffee spreads to Java
5)Martinique ~1720
6)2 in Brazil ~1820
7)1850- Coffee spread to Colombia, Central America, and one in Northern Vietnam-Southern China region
11 Coffee resources in total


Alright, this helps a lot. Thanks!

Prospo
Mar 13, 2011, 03:01 PM
I would just like to applaud the efforts to make this mod. :clap:

J. pride
Mar 13, 2011, 03:02 PM
A lot of the map changes you guys recommended aren't being implemented yet (Antioch, Baghdad stone, Chinese/ Indian spawn changes). I wanted to release it ASAP because I'm going away for a bit and I won't have access to my modding files.

When do u plan on implementing these changes

On a side note, its kind of early but have u decided if u want to include the Seljuks and the Fatimids?

And the mod looks good!;)

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 03:21 PM
I would just like to applaud the efforts to make this mod. :clap:

Thanks

When do u plan on implementing these changes

On a side note, its kind of early but have u decided if u want to include the Seljuks and the Fatimids?

And the mod looks good!;)

It'll be one of the first changes to the SVN.

And definitely in the next release.

The Fatimids will probably be a conditional spawn, the Seljuks a barb wave into Turkey that'll make sure Turkey spawns (Turkey will be conditional too- it'll only spawn if Turkey is Indie or Barb- aka, Seljuk)

Panopticon
Mar 13, 2011, 03:32 PM
Good effort. If I had time I would play this. I don't as I am now in the real world, trying to regulate the banking sector of a troubled European peripheral nation, so I am sticking to RFC Europe for now. But I will play this in the future.

Gruekiller
Mar 13, 2011, 03:41 PM
I'm trying to load up 3000 BC starts as the US, but when there's 335 turns left, one of the 3000 BC civs (Qin Shi Huang, Asoka, or Hammurabi) wins a historical victory. :confused: Anyone else having this problem?

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 03:46 PM
Indeed. I just noticed this problem.

I'm gonna try to see if I can fix this problem.

It probably has to do with the new religious victory option.

Krug
Mar 13, 2011, 03:59 PM
Back from my semi-hiatus of the forums, and I see the first release is up. Anything specifically that I should test? or should I just go do some game of a Civ of my choosing?

Moshe Dayan
Mar 13, 2011, 04:13 PM
It's on 600AD too, just fyi.


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5046/46941630.png

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 06:27 PM
Right, I just got the second in my story.

J. pride
Mar 13, 2011, 06:36 PM
The Fatimids will probably be a conditional spawn, the Seljuks a barb wave into Turkey that'll make sure Turkey spawns (Turkey will be conditional too- it'll only spawn if Turkey is Indie or Barb- aka, Seljuk)

I really dont think thats a good idea. If u were to implement conditional spawns almost half the civs in the game wud be conditional. On the same basis America and Dutch should be conditional too. And on close inspection it wud turn out that most of European civs would be conditional too. That means that European Civs should only spawn if the barbarians (germanic tribes) conquer those territories from the Romans. We wud not have France, Austria, Spain and England if it wasnt for the germanic tribes settling there. The same is true for the Ottomans.

I understand ur concern if u dont want the game to be too deterministic. And that can be achieved with a balance. Instead of having a Turkey that spawns with cities in Crimea, Armenia, Balkans and Anatolia; u can just have a turkey which spawns with cities in Anatolia. This allows the game not be too deterministic but at the same time historically accurate. The same could be true for the Fatimids.

As far as Central Asia is concerned, cud u consider representing them with a broad civ (like the Celtics) that have dynamic name change. These empires would serve 3 puposes:
1) Destabalize the Byzantines and Arabs (which last way too long).
2) Make room for the Safavids and Ottomans.
3) Give the region its share of civilizations.

A Seljuk/Timuid Civ would do alot better of a job than barbarian wud ever do.

P.s: I added the tea resource spread in my last post

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 06:57 PM
Guys the simple fix to our little bug here is to remove a victory option. So I got rid of the Diplomatic victory option- I mean, really, who even uses it?

I really dont think thats a good idea. If u were to implement conditional spawns almost half the civs in the game wud be conditional. On the same basis America and Dutch should be conditional too. And on close inspection it wud turn out that most of European civs would be conditional too. That means that European Civs should only spawn if the barbarians (germanic tribes) conquer those territories from the Romans. We wud not have France, Austria, Spain and England if it wasnt for the germanic tribes settling there. The same is true for the Ottomans.

I understand ur concern if u dont want the game to be too deterministic. And that can be achieved with a balance. Instead of having a Turkey that spawns with cities in Crimea, Armenia, Balkans and Anatolia; u can just have a turkey which spawns with cities in Anatolia. This allows the game not be too deterministic but at the same time historically accurate. The same could be true for the Fatimids.

As far as Central Asia is concerned, cud u consider representing them with a broad civ (like the Celtics) that have dynamic name change. These empires would serve 3 puposes:
1) Destabalize the Byzantines and Arabs (which last way too long).
2) Make room for the Safavids and Ottomans.
3) Give the region its share of civilizations.

A Seljuk/Timuid Civ would do alot better of a job than barbarian wud ever do.

Alright, I'll think about this in further detail when I get to that stage.

Gruekiller
Mar 13, 2011, 06:59 PM
Oh, cool. Does this mean the download is fixed now? :D

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 07:03 PM
I'm gonna fix it in a bit. I need to first test it a few times to make the sure the bug really is fixed as I thought it was.

rand_fan
Mar 13, 2011, 07:59 PM
On turn 11 somebody wins in 3000 BC or 600 AD:confused::confused:

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 08:04 PM
As I said, I have finished fixing this, and the fixed file will be uploaded soon.

J. pride
Mar 13, 2011, 08:27 PM
@ Civking: I already posted the resource spawns for Tea and Tobacco in addition to ur Coffee list.Is it possible for u to implement those resource changes (as provided in linkmans guide). I hav no idea on how to do it.

U might have to remove some preexisting resources to balance things out.

AOS9001
Mar 13, 2011, 08:56 PM
I'll be downloading this tonight... and making a post just so I can keep an eye on this project.

Linkman226
Mar 13, 2011, 09:48 PM
File updated. Feel free to download, now version .2


Back from my semi-hiatus of the forums, and I see the first release is up. Anything specifically that I should test? or should I just go do some game of a Civ of my choosing?
Doesn't really matter. A civ of your choosing.


Guys what do you think of this guy's proposal for the Safavids?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16418

Download, open the file.

J. pride
Mar 13, 2011, 10:08 PM
The idea about the Qizilbash is brilliant and the UB is great too. (U dont need the city list and leader traits.)

Their historical goals could be:

Control all cities in between the euphrates and Indus Rivers. By 1650
Have Shia mosques in every one of ur cities (if u include shites as a religion) By 1700
Dont know about 3rd one

And cud u consider adding some Safavid/Iranian wonders to the game?

Shah mosque
Imam reza mosque
Ill add some more later

civ_king
Mar 13, 2011, 11:21 PM
As I said, I have finished fixing this, and the fixed file will be uploaded soon.
recap

Coffee
Starts in Ethiopia, either from start or 1100 AD
1)1400: Coffee spread to Yeman
2)1500: Coffee spread to Northern Syria
3)1670: Coffee spread to South Western India (Malabar)
4)1690: Coffee spreads to Java
5)Martinique ~1720
6)2-3 in Brazil ~1820
7)1850- Coffee spread to Colombia and Central America (dropped Vietnam because that is very recent)
10-11

Cuba from start
1550- Spread to Virginia and Brazil
1620- Tobacco spread to Turkey and India
1650- Tobacco spreads to China
1 more can appear in China, India and Brazil
3-6


Now for Tea
1) 2 Tea resources in Southern China from start
2) India (Assam) 700 BC
3) 1 spread in Thailand/Vietnam region in 500 BC
4) Korea 660 AD
5) Japan ~800 AD
6) Tea spread to Indonesia 1600 AD
7) Tea spread to East Africa 1700 AD
8) India (West Bengal) ~1840 AD
9) Ceylon ~1867
10) Iran 1900 AD
11

J. pride
Mar 13, 2011, 11:29 PM
recap

Coffee
Starts in Ethiopia, either from start or 1100 AD
1)1400: Coffee spread to Yeman
2)1500: Coffee spread to Northern Syria
3)1670: Coffee spread to South Western India (Malabar)
4)1690: Coffee spreads to Java
5)Martinique ~1720
6)2-3 in Brazil ~1820
7)1850- Coffee spread to Colombia and Central America (dropped Vietnam because that is very recent)
10-11

Cuba from start
1550- Spread to Virginia and Brazil
1620- Tobacco spread to Turkey and India
1650- Tobacco spreads to China
1 more can appear in China, India and Brazil
3-6


Now for Tea
1) 2 Tea resources in Southern China from start
2) India (Assam) 700 BC
3) 1 spread in Thailand/Vietnam region in 500 BC
4) Korea 660 AD
5) Japan ~800 AD
6) Tea spread to Indonesia 1600 AD
7) Tea spread to East Africa 1700 AD
8) India (West Bengal) ~1840 AD
9) Ceylon ~1867
10) Iran 1900 AD
Looks good :goodjob:

two changes though

Replace the tea from Korea to Turkey (in 1400) (Trukey is one largest producers of Tea and since there is no Korean Civ so not point in that)
Also Tea spread to Iran much earlier than that: Iran 1000 ad
I want too add tea to the indus to make it more attractive but im not sure?? wat do u think?


I just noticed something. Alot of the resources that need to be added (especially in the New World) can be replaced with existing resources; mainly spices and dyes. The spices were added in the Carribean and Brazil because of the lack of a good replacement and now we have good replacements

In the Carribean; the 2 spices can be replaced with Tobacco and Coffee.
In Brazil; the 2 spices can be replaced with Tobacco and 2 Coffee; one need to be added in Southern Brazil. Same is true for rest of the americas (most of it)


We can easily replace with one another becuz of 2 reasons:
1) all are luxury resources
2) they provide similar boosts (mostly gold with maybe one hammer or one food).

The situation gets a little tricky in the Euroasia an Africa but some of the following still applies

And wats with the precolumbian cotton in Ecuador.

Krug
Mar 14, 2011, 06:02 AM
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/IAMWaveman/watdo.jpg

Playing a game as the Persians when I suddenly notice this.

Not only does that Carthaginian Stack to the left have no boat, they also have some rather odd units in there (Christian Inquisitors?)

dazzharvey
Mar 14, 2011, 10:20 AM
i tried v2 after v1 and the historic victory glitch and got this error message

Victory_diplomatic in info class was incorrect

CIV4BuildingInfo.xml

anything i can do to fix or am i destined to never get to play civ 4 :( lol


**************

it worked in the end but just curious as to what i can do to to remove the error, it pops up a couple of times before startup

AdrienIer
Mar 14, 2011, 11:12 AM
We can easily replace with one another becuz of 2 reasons:
1) all are luxury resources
2) they provide similar boosts (mostly gold with maybe one hammer or one food)

Beware of the unforeseen consequences :old:
For example with the dutch UHV asking you to have 7 spice ressources. :crazyeye:

BenZL43
Mar 14, 2011, 11:33 AM
Is India still starts on Dilli in Ancient Age here ?
I've got a solution, I think, using the 'Various resources' mod..
At ancient age, India starts near the Indus river..
to the east of the Indus river, cities like what now is Colcatta etc is filled with Jungle, and as era increased, the Jungle are gone and can be settled there..
what do you think ?
It's one of the idea I thought I'm going to sent you via PM as I stated in the citynamemanager development thread but I think its better to be publicly known so well Everybody can give response haha
-Peace ^^v

J. pride
Mar 14, 2011, 02:14 PM
Beware of the unforeseen consequences
For example with the dutch UHV asking you to have 7 spice ressources.
@ Adrien: could u help figure out more of these unforseen consequences so they can be solved.

Is India still starts on Dilli in Ancient Age here ?
I've got a solution, I think, using the 'Various resources' mod..
At ancient age, India starts near the Indus river..
to the east of the Indus river, cities like what now is Colcatta etc is filled with Jungle, and as era increased, the Jungle are gone and can be settled there..
what do you think ?
It's one of the idea I thought I'm going to sent you via PM as I stated in the citynamemanager development thread but I think its better to be publicly known so well Everybody can give response haha

I don't think thats a good idea. As ive said earlier the Indian spawn should be at Pataliputra becuz of 2 reasons:
1) An India around the Indus will tend to spread westwards into Persian territory.
2) Pataliputra was the cultural and political heart of India. It was the capital of most of the Ancient Indian dynasties and Hinduism emerged from the region.

Besides, with the new added resources on the ganges the region should be better.

Gruekiller
Mar 14, 2011, 03:55 PM
Just loaded up my very first Synthesis save! I found some things that made me happy:

http://i.imgur.com/QllWS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2iv0k.jpg

Some things that surprised me:
http://i.imgur.com/k9kko.jpg
(Persian respawn - nice! :goodjob: )

And some things that made me go "I'm 12 and what is this"
http://i.imgur.com/rMuuK.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/RIuum.jpg

Le scoreboard:
http://i.imgur.com/Zoih3.png

The scary part is, Germany isn't collapsing. :eek: Say, is there any way I could play as the respawned Persians? Seems like an interesting game.

Linkman226
Mar 14, 2011, 04:29 PM
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/IAMWaveman/watdo.jpg

Playing a game as the Persians when I suddenly notice this.

Not only does that Carthaginian Stack to the left have no boat, they also have some rather odd units in there (Christian Inquisitors?)

This is VERY unusual. Not sure what's causing this. Mind sending me the save?

i tried v2 after v1 and the historic victory glitch and got this error message

Victory_diplomatic in info class was incorrect

CIV4BuildingInfo.xml

anything i can do to fix or am i destined to never get to play civ 4 :( lol


**************

it worked in the end but just curious as to what i can do to to remove the error, it pops up a couple of times before startup

I'll have it fixed next version. For now, ignore it.

Beware of the unforeseen consequences :old:
For example with the dutch UHV asking you to have 7 spice ressources. :crazyeye:

This is very true.

Is India still starts on Dilli in Ancient Age here ?
I've got a solution, I think, using the 'Various resources' mod..
At ancient age, India starts near the Indus river..
to the east of the Indus river, cities like what now is Colcatta etc is filled with Jungle, and as era increased, the Jungle are gone and can be settled there..
what do you think ?
It's one of the idea I thought I'm going to sent you via PM as I stated in the citynamemanager development thread but I think its better to be publicly known so well Everybody can give response haha
-Peace ^^v

I already have Panopticon's Dynamic Terrain modmod, which changes part of the Indus to flood plains and some jungles to forest (so they're settleable). If you can compile a list of a suggestions, I'll be happy to include them, provided they're reasonable.


I don't think thats a good idea. As ive said earlier the Indian spawn should be at Pataliputra becuz of 2 reasons:
1) An India around the Indus will tend to spread westwards into Persian territory.
2) Pataliputra was the cultural and political heart of India. It was the capital of most of the Ancient Indian dynasties and Hinduism emerged from the region.

Besides, with the new added resources on the ganges the region should be better.

Agreed.

Just loaded up my very first Synthesis save! I found some things that made me happy:

http://i.imgur.com/QllWS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2iv0k.jpg

Indeed, colonialism is much more likely to do map changes.

And some things that made me go "I'm 12 and what is this"
http://i.imgur.com/rMuuK.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/RIuum.jpg

Le scoreboard:
http://i.imgur.com/Zoih3.png

The scary part is, Germany isn't collapsing. :eek: Say, is there any way I could play as the respawned Persians? Seems like an interesting game.

Sadly this is a bug in DoC/ RFC. Should be fixed by splitting the HRE into Prussia/ the HRE, which will happen eventually.

Leoreth
Mar 14, 2011, 04:32 PM
That's no bug. It's a feature! :D

J. pride
Mar 14, 2011, 04:36 PM
How is the progress on resource placing and balancing, Ar they going to be included soon?

Do u want a list on Potato and Timber spawn and spread. All the other resources just need to be implemented right (or am i missing anything)


Adding/spawning/balancing/removing resources and fixing their consequences is bigger challange then it first appeared. I think feedback and help from alot ppl is needed to make this work.

hoplitejoe
Mar 14, 2011, 04:47 PM
i have tried a few games on v 0.1 and here are some of the things i found.
http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/97/civ4screenshot0041.jpg
a roman gally just sailed straight into a plantation :confused:.

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3922/civ4screenshot0037.jpg
i think this has been spotted before but swimming Phoenicians.

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3654/civ4screenshot0038v.jpg
i think i took this due to the funny catholic spread but also notice the city in turkey which rome has spawned with in every one of my games.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3105/civ4screenshot0042.jpg
i don't think this is a bug but losing 4 battles at around 70% makes me mad :mad:.
(it was the same axeman as well)

Tyo
Mar 14, 2011, 05:50 PM
Can't get it to come up on the load screen.. Probably because this is the first modmod I've downloaded, lol.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59/Tynodo/q.png

Tried to search guides to do it, found one for rmods and just tried it. Didn't work. Am I doing something wrong?

J. pride
Mar 14, 2011, 05:55 PM
did u try going in synthesis and opening the public map and clicking on 3000 bc or 600 ad map

hoplitejoe
Mar 14, 2011, 05:58 PM
Did you added the mod mod like you add a normal mod?

Tyo
Mar 14, 2011, 06:07 PM
did u try going in synthesis and opening the public map and clicking on 3000 bc or 600 ad map

The mod currently isn't on my "load mod" screen, so no.

Edit: actually, I misunderstood. Trying that now.

I did as said, at first there's an error saying it was ignoring the command, but then civ would start up. It'd show may the civ selection display, but most of the civs from the regular RFC 600ad start aren't there. And start times for civs that are there don't show. When I tried starting the game as Byzantines, it closes and a error message comes up saying civ has stopped working.

Did you added the mod mod like you add a normal mod?

Yes, at least to my greatest understanding of adding a mod.

I get that far with most mods I try actually, but it ceases to show on the "load a mod" display.

Moshe Dayan
Mar 14, 2011, 06:15 PM
I'm being super-OCD and changing the dynamic civ names to more accurate ones ala Dumanios. Is there a way that I can keep the edited files from getting overwritten whenever I update or revert the SVN (other than backing them up somewhere else on my computer)?
Also, any chance of including them in the mod when I'm done? :P