View Full Version : Another WW2 scenario


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rhettrongun
Mar 19, 2011, 11:23 AM
Status of mod as of 01/23/2013 (pulled from the European theatre thread):
After playing Gedemon's mod again I've been struck by some modding inspiration. So, I'm going to take another stab at getting this and the full earth version working again. The Europe version will be easier to get up to speed, so I'll start with it. If that yields a playable scenario, then I'll attempt to convert the full earth version afterward.

Just an update after the long hiatus in case anyone is still interested in playing this in the future. I could easily hit a brick wall in a week and give up again. The only reason why I'm interested is because of the large number of units this mod offers vs Gedemon's mod (even though his does have a ton in its own right). Plus I like to shape the unit capabilities myself :D.

Anyways, I shall see how things go.

----Version 19 (15/12)----
NOTE: The new Paratrooper animations won't work unless you update your common folder with the animation pack from version 15/12. So, it has to be done again.
OVERALL CHANGES
-Adjusted AI behavior. I found quite a few remaining problems with the AI that are hopefully corrected.
-Removed Mod ID check. So, it's possible to play alongside other mods again.
-Added Danrell's Paratrooper unit graphics
-Added some variation to some of the infantry squads
-Rifleman is back to being upgradeable to infantry
-Standardized unit flag designations. So, all light tanks have a specific flag, med tanks have their own, etc... This makes it easier to spot what type of unit you are viewing on the map.
-Added strategy texts for wwII units that were missing them
-Sped up all air attack animations to help move the game along
-Increased France's starting army
-Fixed UK's starting tech

UNIT REBALANCES
-Tank Destroyers have 40% penalty vs cities
-Light TDs have 25% penalty vs cities
-All tanks now have 25% penalty vs cities
-Armored AA units have 40% penalty vs cities
-Halftrack (gun) AA units have no penalty vs cities, and can move after attacking.
-Swapped out the SS unique for Fallshirmjager. It doesn't have "explore rival territory", but retains the xp bonus.
-Changed US Amphibious Infantry to Marine Infantry that gets a small xp bonus
-Changed the Navy Guns/Armor promotion system to 1-10 instead of 1-7

Potential/Known Issues
-I removed two files that I think were unnecessary, and may have been behind the "runtime error" that was reported during loading a saved game from the previous version.
-Japan was not loading correctly previously. It was due to too many items having to be loaded by the game. I reduced its beginning military slightly, and have verified that it both loads on a new game and loads from a save successfully. I'm not sure that it will load saves after its army/empire grows well into a game though.
-When a scripted denouncement takes place, "We've been over this before. The answer is still no.", is the dialogue that is used. I'm not sure how to fix this at the moment.

Download links
Version 15 of part 1 and version 12 of part 2 are available HERE: http://www.mediafire.com/?7xaenc3os94c578

Credits:
-Danrell -- Unit Graphics/Animations
-Gedemon -- Lua script (diplomacy controls/calendar/Custom menu)
-Panaristi -- Basis for many of the unit icons (check out his work here:
http://www.creativecrash.com/users/panaristi)
-Pal1723 -- Many leader/civ icons
-Morlark --Smart tech tree piping .lua file

Special Thanks to:
-Spatzimaus for helping me get the tech tree working properly
-Derek Kael Paxton for his guide
-dlmt3 and kps666 for helping with troubleshooting
-Everyone who helped with ideas in this thread on how to improve the scenario also.

Screen Shots (these are now dated / will update later)
Europe:
http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/a573cbfc52988ec8a2c34a65095482c901a122db239e61bd08 82609b35a5e34e6g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=0e2kwugrazrekd6&thumb=4)
http://www1.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/15ec25ad231fd0483a5e3fd59c0a626ba4c80c6193a2e3232e 190c71005e02226g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=73pjcge9ax7puas&thumb=4)
http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ce5f401b2f08df679ac79ce6b09f3d8fbc31947a9c24829490 fe1522673cb3006g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=w2yfrr0qiywybi5&thumb=4)
http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9b688fdc06ed18a97413003bb983f04bbc46fe09ea69dce7f9 e5a6059df3e4326g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=uy31nbdu00ohsub&thumb=4)
Eastern Asia:
http://www4.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/d0dcef08922b72c4ec363d7e65281e07163ef35efefc7ca938 169455fe9380e26g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=9dm0ubdsa75o1pu&thumb=4)
North America:
http://www0.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/0d1e4e9b1c5103fd3ecfea20ce69958398fcf43bee1fae0b4e 94660d54397c946g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=wd4i16a9taudg4m&thumb=4)

Current Status of Mod 4/21/12
This scenario is on ice indefinitely. I might check in from time to time to answer a question or two if they show up.

:scan:BEGIN_INSTALLATION [updated as of version 19(15/12)]
1. Delete or move all previous versions of this mod. I recommend doing the same with any old map versions as well to avoid confusion.

2. Download zip file package. It should contain 2 civ5mod files. Unpack both of them them into your MODS folder. Location:
C:\Users\Owner\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS

3. Clear your Civ5 cache if you think it is necessary (this was a big problem before, but it may not matter anymore), as this can sometimes lead to conflicts from residual mod data you've used in the past. It is located here: C:\Users\Owner\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\cache. Delete all the database files. There should be about 6 of them.

4. Start Civ 5 and install the mods in game like you would normally do for a downloaded mod. ie. go to browse mods and click on install on lower right hand corner. It should take a fair amount of time to finish. If it doesn't complete then see the troubleshooting section below.

5. This is a good time to enable the mods now, so click on the enable icons for the 2 mod parts. It is recommended that you disable all mods except for the 2 WW2 (ver.15/12) mods. This isn't exactly necessary, as I play with InfoAddict enabled myself. Avoid mods that change any gameplay rules though.

6. Close Civ 5 and go back into your MODS folder.

7. Open the mod folder "WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 2 of 2 (v 12)". Select the folder "Common" and copy it. Open your civ5 common folder located here:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\sid meier's civilization v\resource\Common

8. Paste (This contains all the required animation instructions for the new units). If this is not done, then you will get the spearman problem during animations for any of the new units.
:scan:END_INSTALLATION

STARTING A GAME
1. Start Civ5, and select "Mods".

2. Open the mods browser and verify part 1/2 are enabled.

3. Navigate back to the mods main menu and select "Single Player".

4. Select "Custom Game". If you have a problem launching the game through the custom menu, then select setup game instead. From there you would pick the WWII map, select "load scenario", and launch the game.

5. Select "World War II Full Earth Campaign", Choose your WWII civ, and finally start the game.(if you get "Assertion failed!..." then see troubleshooting below)

NOTE: This mod has a very high number of units (in part due to 2 units/tile) for the AI to manage. So, expect long waits in between turns. Be patient. At times it may appear the game is stuck, but it is merely the ai working. If you have a super computer then maybe it will still play quick, but otherwise you may need something else to do while the AI takes its turn.


TROUBLESHOOTING
---"Assertion Failed!" error upon loading---

NOTE: It looks like I've finally gotten to the bottom of what was behind this with the help of the user "runtime_error". Read through this section of the thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11274466&posted=1#post11274466 while specifically noting runtime_error's posts about DLC units messing up the map, and how he was able to fix this. A more permanent/easy fix will be in the works for the next version.

1. Acquire World Builder/Civ 5 SDK off Steam tools and install it. To find it open up your steam browser and select Library. Click on "All Games" near the top left corner and select "Tools". Civ 5 SDK should show up here.
2. Start World Builder
3. Verify that both part 1 & 2 of the mod are enabled. Do this by clicking on "Mods" and checking boxes next to them. Now select "Load".

NOTE: for European Theatre, you need to ignore part 1 of Full Earth Campaign. So, the mods at hand are "WWII European Theatre (v 4)" and "WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 2 of 2 (v 17)". The map file will be located in the Euro Theatre mod folder; not the FEC Part 1 folder (which likely won't exist). The map file you need is called "180X94_European_Theatre_2"

4. Navigate to the following folder, "C:\Users\Owner\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 1 of 2 (v 15)", and open "WorldWarIIGiantEarthV3.Civ5Map".
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ac5201dc38f4f507630bfb23935a21d2c7ec86ad6d20969f46 ce92094ce0b9673g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=3&quickkey=whp895jb84uw8ik)
5. Select the save function and exit to reattempt starting the scenario in the custom launcher.
or
-you can use "save as" function, and create a new map file to use with the normal "setup" menu. The only real difference, other than the flashy start screen, is that Australia/Spain are unplayable.
The custom setup menu does not seem to recognize the map file if it's been altered in anyway, so that is why there is a difference here.

---the mod is not installing automatically in game---
1. Create 2 folders in your "MODS" folder. Name them:
"WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 1 of 2 (v 15)"
&
"WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 2 of 2 (v 12)"
2. Open the civ5modfiles with a 7zip or winrar equivalent program. Drag and drop the contents of each to the corresponding folders that you just created. ie. part 1 contents go into part 1 of 2 folder

Old Update info
----Version 18 (14/11)---- Beta Test
NOTE: After uploading version 14/11 I found out that "Assertion failed!..." crash may prevent the map from loading as it is. I'll keep version 13/10 available in case this is true. I've posted a possible work around, but it may not work.
Changes:
-Converted scenario over to a customized Front end setup. Credit goes to Gedemon for the design, as it is his impressive skill with lua as usual. I made the customized background myself. Directions on how to start a game are posted below.
-Spain & Australia are as result now playable!:w00t:
-Adjusted AI behavior
-Moved start date up to June 1, 1939
-Fixed remaining unit skins that were missing
-Added upgrade lines for unique SPGs
-Adjusted Tech costs
-Reduced city growth rate
-Changed lighthouse so that instead of +1 food to all sea tiles, it now give +1 food base and +1 food on worked fish tiles.
-Removed the move/sight bonus provided by the Great Lighthouse, and boosted other aspects of it.
-Reduced AI bonuses for Growth and Gold costs for units/unit upgrades. This only affects KING & PRINCE levels, as those are the recommended difficulties for the scenario.
-Added Dawn of Man images for the other playable civilizations.
-Adjusted starting forces
-Adjusted some city locations slightly
-Increased certain starting city-state influence levels to prevent the AI from messing up the diplomacy script.
-Increased conquest rate for most buildings. ie. fewer buildings will be destroyed on city capture
-Increased Atomic Bomb damage
-Fixed some xml errors

Relevant parts of original Message--->Hello, I just discovered that this seems to be the more active of the civ community forums for interacting with other players.

I would like to give credit to the user "Buddha2723" for his own WW2 scenario, as it inspired me to make one using a modified huge Earth map. I feel like his scenario is focused on Europe/Pacific/North Africa and mine offers a more global perspective. So,
that is why I decided to make it.

I'd like to address some details about the scenario & then invite some suggestions on how to make the scenario better.

-This scenario is not intended to be perfectly setup for the state of the world at the onset of the invasion of Poland. Though it is close, there are some changes I have made in an attempt to make things more interesting.

Ddude97
Mar 19, 2011, 01:32 PM
With some xml changes you can change the name of civs and the timeline. And where is the scenario?

rhettrongun
Mar 19, 2011, 02:02 PM
Ah my mistake. I'm new here, so I wasn't familiar with attachments and uploading files yet. I have attached the newest version and uploaded in the downloads section since. It is also available via the in game mod browser, but that version has been slightly updated since.

As far as the xml changes go, I will keep that in mind for maybe next weekend. Thanks for the advice.

Pablod
Mar 19, 2011, 04:41 PM
player 18,22,10 is nobody!!!!!
or you use a mod?

rhettrongun
Mar 19, 2011, 07:31 PM
That sounds strange. I have played it and found no such problem myself. My guess is those are the corresponding DLC civs. Maybe you do not have the DLC civs? Babylon, Polynesia, & Spain are all available for DLC separate purchase.

Pablod
Mar 20, 2011, 05:49 AM
yes i don't

Dragalex
Mar 24, 2011, 11:55 AM
I must say this scenario is absolutely fantastic ! Until now, I think it's the best WW2 scenario for CIV5, and maybe the best CIV5 Scenario. Congratulations, and thank you for this wonderful job !

rhettrongun
Mar 25, 2011, 04:09 PM
I appreciate that Dragalex. I enjoyed playing it myself, so it's nice to see that others civ players are now as well.

Revoran
Mar 26, 2011, 10:51 AM
Just downloaded this, will play tomorrow. After taking a quick glance at the map, I noticed that New Guinea was under British control - this is inaccurate as the Dutch gave New Guinea to Australia after Australia asked for it - this allowed the Australian government to get around a section of the Aussie constitution which prohibits conscripting people into the military unless Australian soil is under attack. Australians were then conscripted and sent to New Guinea to hold off the Japanese, along with New Zealand troops. You might make Port Moresby a puppet of Australia.

This is important because while still members of the British "commonwealth" Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa had by then become their own separate self governing nations which were not under control or administration of the British (technically still subjects of the British crown though), however most people still held a lot of loyalty towards Britain. Australian and New Zealand troops were also present in North Africa/The Near East until (if I recall correctly) Australia recalled their troops after the Japanese started trying to go over New Guinea to Australia. Most of the ANZAC troops in Africa/the Middle East were well trained professionals (Infantry) while the home guard was less well trained and the conscripts sent to New Guinea also had minimal training and used worse equipment (Riflemen).

India I think was not an independant nation yet and so all those cities would technically be English (maybe Puppets) but it seems a waste to not use India in your map.

Also, since you use Spain, you might consider using Inca as one of the larger South American nations such as Chile, Ecuador, Brazil or Argentina.

One also wishes for more space in Europe but that's always a problem I suppose.

These are all minor complaints about what i'm sure will be a very fun Scenario. I'll post back here after i've played it.

Also Auckland (New Zealand's largest city <north point of north island>), Wellington (It's Capital<south of north island>) or Christchurch (<east coast of south island> New Zealand's second largest city) may have been better choices than Dunedin etc - I realise that it takes forever to put all the cities down though and set all their buildings etc etc and that it's weird when you aren't familiar with somewhere (I only found out the other day that San Francisco is a much smaller city than the US's other major cities, same with Miami).

rhettrongun
Mar 26, 2011, 11:20 AM
Just downloaded this, will play tomorrow. After taking a quick glance at the map, I noticed that New Guinea was under British control - this is inaccurate as the Dutch gave New Guinea to Australia after Australia asked for it - this allowed the Australian government to get around a section of the Aussie constitution which prohibits conscripting people into the military unless Australian soil is under attack. Australians were then conscripted and sent to New Guinea to hold off the Japanese, along with.

This is important because while still members of the British "commonwealth" Australia, Canada and South Africa had by then become their own separate self governing nations which were not under control or administration of the British (technically still subjects of the British crown though), however most people still held a lot of loyalty towards Britain. Australian and New Zealand troops were also present in North Africa/The Near East until (if I recall correctly) Australia recalled their troops after the Japanese started trying to go over New Guinea to Australia. Most of the ANZAC troops in Africa/the Middle East were well trained professionals (Infantry) while the home guard was less well trained and the conscripts sent to New Guinea also had minimal training and used worse equipment (Riflemen).

India I think was not an independant nation yet and so all those cities would technically be English (maybe Puppets) but it seems a waste to not use India in your map.

Also, since you use Spain, you might consider using Inca as one of the larger South American nations such as Chile, Ecuador, Brazil or Argentina.

One also wishes for more space in Europe but that's always a problem I suppose.

These are all minor complaints about what i'm sure will be a very fun Scenario. I'll post back here after i've played it.

Thanks for the information. I'll definitely fix New Guinea and its soldiers when I get the chance, as that is easy to correct and fits into the scenario quite well.

The game won't let me start any AI controlled units in non-empire controlled territory unfortunately (even if there is open borders), so there isn't really any room in North Africa for the ANZAC troops. The presence of Britain/France should cover it ok though.
I wanted to use the Inca in South America, but the game caps the civ count at 22 for some reason. So the Inca were the odd man out here, although I have considered turning Mongolia into a City-State allied with the USSR & then using the Inca as either Brazil or Argentina. Mongolia is probably the most pointless of the civs in the game as it is.

Lastly, yep Europe is frustratingly small on this map. I really wanted to have the Maginot line for France to use, & perhaps even more I wanted to have Crete as an actual Greek controlled city in the Med. I would have had to scale Africa slightly down to do this, however. In hindsight I wish I had done so, because it would have been worth the trouble. With all the cities already placed though, it would be extremely tedious.

Pablod
Apr 01, 2011, 12:30 PM
is a realy good scenario congrats
rated exelent:assimilate:

Dr.Loomis003
Apr 05, 2011, 12:58 AM
Am I missing a step, I downloaded and placed the mod into my "MODS" folder while doing the same with the map. When I go to find it in the game I'm not able to locate it. Is their more to this that I'm not doing?

Buddha2723
Apr 07, 2011, 12:31 PM
Good job. Feel free to steal my xml files(there are only two). One fixes the date to twelve turns a year, the other keeps modern, unbalancing techs from being researched. I'd be happy to help if you have any questions with the modding. I created my WWII scenario from the US vs World scenario I created first, and once you have many hours invested(I created that map from scratch) it's hard to make major changes to the map without starting from scratch again. If only Firaxis had given us a tool to select and drag portions of the map making these scenarios would be 10 times easier. As it is to shrink Africa, enlarge Europe, you would have to redo half the work, instead of just clicking a few times, like it should be. Keep up the good work. There has never been a satisfactory WWII scenario in Civ games, but we're just the guys for the job.

Drloomis, try finding the map in the mod folder, and copy pasting it to the maps folder in civ 5. Modbuddy is very confusing and it took me dozens of tries before I figured out how to get the map to show up, this is the backdoor way.

mchaosad
Apr 08, 2011, 07:33 AM
HI ALL

I Have a problem. I downloaded and placed the mod into my "MODS" folder. I activate mod in Civ. When I go to find it in the game-(maps) I'm not able to locate it. Is their more to this that I'm not doing?
Could you please hepl me!!!!!!!!! Help help!

I need play this scenario

shinyhalo
Apr 08, 2011, 02:28 PM
Ditto. Also selected Single Player then Scenarios and found nothing.

C:\Program Files (x86)\Sid Meier's Civilization V

C:\Users\Z\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5

HI ALL

I Have a problem. I downloaded and placed the mod into my "MODS" folder. I activate mod in Civ. When I go to find it in the game-(maps) I'm not able to locate it. Is their more to this that I'm not doing?
Could you please hepl me!!!!!!!!! Help help!

I need play this scenario

shinyhalo
Apr 08, 2011, 02:58 PM
Ditto. Also selected Single Player then Scenarios and found nothing.

C:\Program Files (x86)\Sid Meier's Civilization V

C:\Users\Z\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5

HI ALL

I Have a problem. I downloaded and placed the mod into my "MODS" folder. I activate mod in Civ. When I go to find it in the game-(maps) I'm not able to locate it. Is their more to this that I'm not doing?
Could you please hepl me!!!!!!!!! Help help!

I need play this scenario

mchaosad
Apr 13, 2011, 03:03 AM
HI

I Have a problem.
I downloaded and placed the mod into my "MODS" folder.
Run game
I'm going to mod, I activate mod in Civ.
I go to a single game, where you chose maps and map there is red or not show it

What may be reason for that?
Could you please hepl me and write me detailed instructions what to do to make this work?

Thank you

os84
Apr 15, 2011, 04:55 AM
cant locate it either.. :( correctly installed but no map?

helgish
Apr 19, 2011, 10:40 AM
I downloaded the mod scenario through the Civ V modhub. I alos DL'd the new u-boats mod and put that in my mod folder as well. How do I play? Do I need to move the map from either mod in to the map folder for Civ V?

Dragalex
Apr 24, 2011, 01:06 PM
Yes, you've got to put the map "WWIIver2" (or something like that) in the map folder.

Nevertheless, I've got another problem. When I set up a game with "WW2 earth campaign" scenario, when I want to select the Civilisation to play with, I can only chose between England, France, Germany, Rome, Japan, ans maybe Greece, and there's no scrollbar. For example, it's impossible for me to chose Russia. I tried to disable my other mods, but it still didn't work.

Has someone got a solution, please ?

Tipper2002
May 14, 2011, 03:48 PM
Select map for mod.
Before checking senario, select leaders.
Scroll down a bit.
Exit and check senario.

When you select leaders again, scroll bar should be available.

thatsgerman2010
May 22, 2011, 02:42 PM
Reporting my test,
played as Germany, conquered France in Europe by Turn 10 which was normal, still her African Colonies and South American ones too. Took one of the city states near greece. The whole time Every civ, including Japan and Italy denounced me, and everyone was denouncing everyone. Then around turn 10 Russia declared war on me and the scandinavian city states. Russia took poland but was quickly recaptured by my panzers and infantry. Russia was very easily beaten due to there lack of Anti-Air, 2 cossacks, 2 infantrys, and kyushka where obliterated by my bombers. By the time i got warsaw back, france offered a me a peace treaty for all her african colonies which was odd... then everyone was offering peace treaties... England, US, Greece, Saudi Arabia, all with something to offer, like 26 oil from arabia and 26 more from france... super odd. then around turn 12 I finished oxford university and got lazers and could build modern armors and jet fighters, I know you suggested getting a mod that slows techs but i still got lazers from oxford which made the game feel stupid... I mean I had modern tanks and jet fighters by the end of Frances conquest which was around 1940 real time

I think to really have a succesful ww2 mod we need to have a mod not a scenario, vanilla civ V is not compatible with a WW2 scenario, to few techs and to few units. I mean we are missing Self propelled guns, Assault guns, Tank destroyers (like Jadgpanthers and fireflys...ect), infantry halftracks, Special forces (Waffen SS, British Special forces...ect), Heavy Tanks (Panthers, King Tigers, Churchills...ect), tactical bombers... I mean in vanilla civ v we have fighters, tanks, artillery, infantry , and anti tank.... thats it, there was so much more in WW2 that that! Ive looked at the unit graphics and there are a lot of WW2 units that are ready to be modded, they have Tanks, infantry, fighters, and battleships that are WW2 specific so maybe someone could make that a mod to make an infective WW2 feel.Talking to George washington and Elizabeth also detracts from the WW2 feeling, isnt there a way you could add pictures instead of the default animations?

I know its not going to be easy but to be completely honest, WW2 is not going to be a fun scenario till we get a mod for it....

rhettrongun
May 23, 2011, 12:28 PM
Reporting my test,
played as Germany, conquered France in Europe by Turn 10 which was normal, still her African Colonies and South American ones too. Took one of the city states near greece. The whole time Every civ, including Japan and Italy denounced me, and everyone was denouncing everyone. Then around turn 10 Russia declared war on me and the scandinavian city states. Russia took poland but was quickly recaptured by my panzers and infantry. Russia was very easily beaten due to there lack of Anti-Air, 2 cossacks, 2 infantrys, and kyushka where obliterated by my bombers. By the time i got warsaw back, france offered a me a peace treaty for all her african colonies which was odd... then everyone was offering peace treaties... England, US, Greece, Saudi Arabia, all with something to offer, like 26 oil from arabia and 26 more from france... super odd. then around turn 12 I finished oxford university and got lazers and could build modern armors and jet fighters, I know you suggested getting a mod that slows techs but i still got lazers from oxford which made the game feel stupid... I mean I had modern tanks and jet fighters by the end of Frances conquest which was around 1940 real time

I think to really have a succesful ww2 mod we need to have a mod not a scenario, vanilla civ V is not compatible with a WW2 scenario, to few techs and to few units. I mean we are missing Self propelled guns, Assault guns, Tank destroyers (like Jadgpanthers and fireflys...ect), infantry halftracks, Special forces (Waffen SS, British Special forces...ect), Heavy Tanks (Panthers, King Tigers, Churchills...ect), tactical bombers... I mean in vanilla civ v we have fighters, tanks, artillery, infantry , and anti tank.... thats it, there was so much more in WW2 that that! Ive looked at the unit graphics and there are a lot of WW2 units that are ready to be modded, they have Tanks, infantry, fighters, and battleships that are WW2 specific so maybe someone could make that a mod to make an infective WW2 feel.Talking to George washington and Elizabeth also detracts from the WW2 feeling, isnt there a way you could add pictures instead of the default animations?

I know its not going to be easy but to be completely honest, WW2 is not going to be a fun scenario till we get a mod for it....

This would be a pretty tall order, and 1 more suitably left to someone with a better understanding of the game's modding programs than myself.
I would certainly like to see the same sort of thing done. But considering the time it would take to put all that together with my limited experience in modding, I doubt I would be able to do it. Too many other obligations is what it comes down to.

As far as your game description, I have seen the same thing myself play out in this scenario as Germany. The AI's inefficiency at warfare was the reason I gave Germany such a large/powerful force. Without that sort of advantage an AI controlled Germany will 1st have too much trouble invading France, and then following end up getting steam rolled by USSR if war is declared. Even so, you do make a good point about giving USSR better anti-air defense. That should be an easy to change too :)

Your complaint about the tech has an easy, if potentially heavy handed, fix with the latest patch. World builder lets you turn off all tech progress now, so that is something that can be added in. Since it would change the game so dramatically though, I'll probably post it as an alternate scenario version & it would have to include many other changes to account for there no longer being any tech progress.

Fortunately the peace treaty issues can be fixed now with the latest Firaxis patch, so I will see about posting an updated version on here later today or sometime this week. The potential changes are:
-Permanent war for Axis/Allies
-CW of Aust. replacing GB in Indonesia.
-Boost USSR anti-aircraft
also:
-Turning off tech progress for an alternate scenario version

Thanks for the feedback!

rhettrongun
May 23, 2011, 12:38 PM
Also to address any future problems on the map not showing up in game:

The actual map file, "WW2ver2", needs to be placed in your civ5 "Maps" folder. As a default for me this is located via this folder line, "C:\Users\[PCOwner]\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5". In the same location is the "MODS" folder where the full extracted folder, "WW2fullEarth with U-Boats mod", can be placed in.

Following those instructions should make the map show up.

rhettrongun
May 23, 2011, 12:47 PM
Good job. Feel free to steal my xml files(there are only two). One fixes the date to twelve turns a year, the other keeps modern, unbalancing techs from being researched. I'd be happy to help if you have any questions with the modding. I created my WWII scenario from the US vs World scenario I created first, and once you have many hours invested(I created that map from scratch) it's hard to make major changes to the map without starting from scratch again. If only Firaxis had given us a tool to select and drag portions of the map making these scenarios would be 10 times easier. As it is to shrink Africa, enlarge Europe, you would have to redo half the work, instead of just clicking a few times, like it should be. Keep up the good work. There has never been a satisfactory WWII scenario in Civ games, but we're just the guys for the job.

Drloomis, try finding the map in the mod folder, and copy pasting it to the maps folder in civ 5. Modbuddy is very confusing and it took me dozens of tries before I figured out how to get the map to show up, this is the backdoor way.

Thanks, I will take a look at how they would work with the scenario. Maybe that is a better option than turning off tech progress altogether. I have to agree with you on the world builder being very cumbersome when it comes to changes like that too.

Sorry about the long gap of no responses on here also. I finally have enough free time to look at this stuff again.

Ghandi Khan
May 23, 2011, 07:55 PM
cool scenario. very ambitious. I started as the Germans and was quickly overwhelmed by there being too much to do. Started over again as the Chinese. I was able to stop the Japs from taking a single city in mainland Asia... repelled them from Korea, Hong Kong, IndoChina and Manchuria without too much trouble. If I continue the scenario I'll start building up my navy to start the counter attack and invade the Japanese mainland which I imagine will be much easier than it should be.

I would recommend the scenario to anyone who would like to play through a game starting on a map similar to how the world was c. 1939 or whenever this is supposed to start. My ultimate goal will be to develop China into the superpower that they will be in real life within a few decades, probably much sooner. I think they start out far more powerful than they actually were in real life.

I would not recommend this scenario to anyone looking for an accurate WW2 scenario. Events will not play out in a way that will satisfy anybody that matches this description.

For example... in my game... in addition to China being able to easily repel the Japanese on their own... Russia and the USA never get into the war on the Allies' side. France was conquered but they actually put up a fight. Spain declared war on France when it was obvious they were losing. After Germany and Italy had taken some territory each, they both attempted to make peace with almost everyone including myself, the Chinese. Siam declared war on me for no apparent reason at all. and... by far the biggest "wtf"... around turn 9 Russia declared war on England.

other points:

I think Russia is probably going to turn into an unstoppable behemoth. They are huuuge. I noticed their land is undeveloped but they have so many cities. They have almost twice as many points as anyone else. I'd have to play as them I guess to see if it was even close to realistic.

In my game, everyone and their cat has already denounced the USA and they haven't done anything. While definitely true to real life, the world didn't start hating Americans for no good reason until after WW2, I think.

Are U-boats supposed to be able to bombard targets on land?

Maybe one way to make the scenario closer to a real WW2 scenario and not just a period scenario would be to set it in 1942 instead of 1939. This way...

The United States and Russia will be in the war on the Allies' side.
You won't have the unrealistic aspect of having to defeat the French as the Germans, as they will have already surrendered.
AI-controlled Japan won't have to clumsily try and manage a land invasion of mainland Asia, they'll already have it.
Is there a way to make this "always war?" Just like in Civ IV... ?

Many WW2 games start at the end of 1941/beginning of 1942 for this reason... it really feels more like a world war at that point... instead of just Germany vs. the RAF and the unrelated expansion of Japanese empire in Asia. Which is exactly how it ends up in this scenario since Russia and the US don't get involved (or they get involved on the wrong side!!) :D

Anyway, thanks for the effort on the mod. :) You worked harder on this than I ever would. Cheers.

Ghandi Khan
May 23, 2011, 09:31 PM
Other strange development in my own game just a few short turns later:

Russia declared war on me (China) forcing me to scrap plans to attack Japan and make peace with them, and turn my attention to my northern border.
Russia made peace with England on the same turn (very short war! Maybe it was just a ruse to lure the Chinese into a false sense of security! :D)

The USA finally got in on the action. How exactly? Well... a joint military operation with Nazi Germany against Iran, of course. haha...

Anyway.. yes... definitely don't look to this scenario for historical accuracy beyond turn 2. still having fun, though.

Ghandi Khan
May 23, 2011, 10:23 PM
More amusing developments. Turn 20. China has started winning territory from the Soviets. Hitler offered a declaration of friendship, which I accepted. Mussolini then promptly warned me not to get too close to the 3rd Reich. :-D

My friendship with Hitler worried many other world leaders as well, but then FDR also offered to be my friend. Maybe because the US and Germany are on the same side of the war against Persia. Very bizarre alternate history being written here...

Ghandi Khan
May 24, 2011, 03:18 AM
Many more turns in... still having fun with it but have to call it a night now.

My "friends" Germany and the USA finally got off their laurels and joined me in attacking Russia. The US didn't really do anything but Germany was rapidly carving out big chunks of eastern Europe and I was worried that Russia would surrender to the Germans before I had a chance to do any real damage. However... in this instance history bore out and for some reason the Germans stopped short of taking Moscow or Stalingrad. I fortified the western front and marched almost the full force of my army toward Kazakhstan and the Ukraine, determined to make it to Moscow before Hitler did.

Also around this time, a coalition of allies finally got the balls to try and stop the Nazis. But in this alternate reality, it was not the superpowers of the UK, USA, and Soviet Union... nah... this time around it was Mongolia, India, Spain, Canada, and Siam. ;-D I'm sure the stormtroopers are quaking in their big leather boots... Each of these leaders came to me asking if I was interested in starting a war with Germany and I turned them all down.

Now I'm getting really close to Stalingrad.. cutting a big swath of mayhem through central Asia eating up all of the Soviets' southernmost cities.. and I guess since the AI loves to kick a dog when it's down pretty much the entire world all declared war on Catherine and piled on. So my need to get to Moscow became even more pressing.

Also around this time I had enough gold to steal away Brazil from the USA (hell of a city state ally, you got there, US). I was pleased to see that without any help at all (and it wasn't even a war I was involved in) my Brazilian allies were able to take over a neighboring city. I had only seen that happen in a game once before (a city-state conquering another city) and I had to give a lot of artillery and air support that time.

Anyway... plunging forward... by the time I'm at the doorstep of Stalingrad... a giant coalition of the willing has already declared war on Germany. The Germans made peace with the Russians. At some point they also lost their southern Egyptian cities to the British (not sure when that happened) but they still own Alexandria and Cairo is still independent. When people kept bugging me to declare war on Germany I finally told them okay, give me 10 turns. But as soon as I secure Moscow (just took the city the turn before I saved)... then I'm planning to turn around and stab Hitler in the back (I'm his only remaining friend in the world at this point- but he's the single biggest threat left to me)

After taking Moscow I talked to Catherine/Stalin and she/he was ready to surrender the entire Soviet empire to me. I would have taken it if this scenario allowed you to raze cities... but under the circumstances I did not since I didn't feel like having -1000 happiness. I would have taken Leningrad/St Petersburg if it had let me, but that was the city that became the capital after I took Moscow and was therefore the only one not offered. So I let them keep all their cities except the ones I had already conquered of course.

I was thinking it might be wise to go for a space race victory until I looked at the victory progress and realized that domination is the only option. d'oh. oh well, that works just as well. Just have to be careful not to take over too many useless cities since you can't raze them all. I'll try to manipulate the AI into conquering as many capital cities as possible without me... and then just take out the leftovers myself.

Ghandi Khan
May 24, 2011, 03:22 AM
I think Russia is probably going to turn into an unstoppable behemoth. They are huuuge.

Turns out they were a total paper tiger... got their butts kicked both by the Nazis and me, the lowly Chinese... of course the Chinese had a brilliant heretofore unknown general commanding their armies... but still... :crazyeye:

oh well at least that's realistic, maybe with enough time they could turn into the super power they actually did become. Though I noticed... even with the AI's crazy happiness bonuses... the Russians were still "very unhappy." This is one reason why their army was so easy to beat. They always had the -33% penalty for being depressed. No doubt because they just have way too many cities. Don't know how you could fix it though unless you just left more empty space between Soviet cities. but living in Russia is fairly depressing, so it makes sense as is, too.

rhettrongun
May 25, 2011, 12:06 AM
Yep, without the ability to script events like, "X Civ declares war on Y Civ at onset of turn Z", the historical accuracy really falls apart fast. I initially went into using the world builder assuming this was possible, but unfortunately it is not. Perhaps there is a way to construct a scenario mod for it, but that is currently beyond me.
I wouldn't be able to change the time table for the scenario to 1942 without doing a major overhaul of some of the larger pre-made cities, so that is probably not going to happen anytime soon. Although, I can definitely see your point on how it might make the game more fun. Too bad I didn't realize it back in March.

I have made these changes:
-fixed the peace treaty issues
-Brazil in place of Mongolia
-fixed the area around Australia
-provided USSR & Greece with additional starting anti-aircraft
-gave USSR more happiness structures to begin with

I also removed the initial war between The Kingdom of Iraq & GB, as this wasn't serving a good purpose, plus wasn't historically accurate either.

Just have to test out the first few turns as Russia/Brazil to make sure they're ok, and I will likely post the update sometime tomorrow.

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 02:05 AM
I agree Brazil is a better choice than Mongolia... also the "North African Alliance".. there were some other ideas I had about starting civs/city states.... but I've had a really long day and I don't even remember anymore.

I'm still playing through my game as the Chinese. I've taken over pretty much all of mainland Europe from the Germans (who are down to two cities now: Athens and Alexandria), the Italians (who are only in Africa), and the Spanish (who had actually become pretty powerful). My next target will probably be London. I don't have a navy anywhere near on par with the British navy but I think I have enough air power and artillery that can fire across the channel that it won't matter.

A couple turns ago a list of "civs with the pointiest sticks came out"... apparently the reason why the USA has not been doing anything the whole game is because they've been stockpiling a mountain of arms in a huge way. I am currently a dominant world power with an empire that stretches from Morocco to Kamchatka. I steamrolled over Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini with little difficulty. My military score is around 15,000.

The US currently has a score of 133,000+. yikes. Time to build some nukes.

Nice to see the Americans taking their place as preimminent military superpower, though. They must also be an economic heavyweight if they are able to support that many units. Gives me at least one more challenge left to look forward to in my current game, though the Japanese have also been busy rebuilding a lot and they're right off my coast... I'll need to deal with them before I tackle North America.

rhettrongun
May 25, 2011, 02:22 PM
The update is posted in the opening post for this thread & is currently under review for the downloads section as well. I forgot to change the version number indicated, but rest assured that it is a brand new file.

I'm glad you mentioned the North African Union Ghandi Khan, as that reminded me to get rid of it. It made room for Argentina. With the addition of Argentina, Brazil, and breaking up the massive city-state in western SA, South America is much more of an interesting part of the scenario than it was before.

I reduced the turn limit substantially (150), as I came to realize that 250 turns is not a realistic game length for this scenario. The game is usually decided in the range of turn 50-100 depending on who the player is controlling. Domination is really only an option if you play as the USSR, so it was almost impossible to actually complete a game with any other civ as it was.

I played through 10 turns as Argentina, and was pretty pleased with the outcome. Notables were:
-Brazil declared war on me on turn 3
-Japan conquered Manchura & Shanghai by turn 5
-Germany conquered France, Poland, and Sweden(who got suckered into the war by France) by turn 7.

Other than getting a 1-sided peace agreement from Brazil AI due to its ineptitude at warfare, nothing else came about from the war.

Thanks again to everyone for the helpful feedback :).

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 02:37 PM
I'm on turn 82 as the Chinese. I could definitely win a domination victory before turn 150... except... I now have a huge problem as I cannot declare war on many different civilizations. I don't know why. I just got about 10,000 gold from the British for traded resources (intending to declare war the same turn; cancel the agreements and keep the gold)... and then I used Britain's gold to make allies of 8 new city states... after I did that... the option to declare war on Britain, Australia, and many other civs is now unavailable. I don't know what to do. I searched for other people having this problem and in the thread I found it suggested using nukes to start a war. I bought a nuke with some money from the USA and Mexico.. but then it wouldn't let me use it against the British. so frustrated now... :P

rhettrongun
May 25, 2011, 02:38 PM
The update is now downloadable directly from the Firaxis database as well, if that is preferred by anyone. I'm pretty sure the map file will still need to be manually moved to the "Maps" folder though.

rhettrongun
May 25, 2011, 02:51 PM
I'm on turn 82 as the Chinese. I could definitely win a domination victory before turn 150... except... I now have a huge problem as I cannot declare war on many different civilizations. I don't know why. I just got about 10,000 gold from the British for traded resources (intending to declare war the same turn; cancel the agreements and keep the gold)... and then I used Britain's gold to make allies of 8 new city states... after I did that... the option to declare war on Britain, Australia, and many other civs is now unavailable. I don't know what to do. I searched for other people having this problem and in the thread I found it suggested using nukes to start a war. I bought a nuke with some money from the USA and Mexico.. but then it wouldn't let me use it against the British. so frustrated now... :P

Yep, sorry about that. Part of the scenario is that certain civs are permanently at peace with certain other civs. China is part of the Allies as far as the scenario is concerned, and therefore is stuck with the ability to only achieve a time victory. This is why I mentioned USSR is really the only Civ capable of getting a domination win. The version you're playing has a turn limit of 250 too (which seems so absurd now), so the game will keep going and probably become very dull long before a time victory can be gotten.

Perhaps I should provide a list of who is who:
Allies: GB, France, USA, Egypt, China, Saudi Arabia, Greece, India, Australia, Canada, Brazil. Of those civs, USA is not involved in permanent war.

Axis: Germany, Italy, Japan, Iraq, Thailand, Argentina. Of those, Iraq & Argentina are not involved in permanent war, while Thailand is only at war with India.

So, any civ listed above is going to be handcuffed from being able to achieve a domination victory. This keeps things like Mussolini declaring war on Hitler, or FDR joining the war on the side of the Axis from happening and completely ruining any historical value the scenario holds past the get go.

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 03:11 PM
Yep, sorry about that. Part of the scenario is that certain civs are permanently at peace with certain other civs. China is part of the Allies as far as the scenario is concerned, and therefore is stuck with the ability to only achieve a time victory. This is why I mentioned USSR is really the only Civ capable of getting a domination win. The version you're playing has a turn limit of 250 too (which seems so absurd now), so the game will keep going and probably become very dull long before a time victory can be gotten.

Perhaps I should provide a list of who is who:
Allies: GB, France, USA, Egypt, China, Saudi Arabia, Greece, India, Australia, Canada, Brazil. Of those civs, USA is not involved in permanent war.

Axis: Germany, Italy, Japan, Iraq, Thailand, Argentina. Of those, Iraq & Argentina are not involved in permanent war, while Thailand is only at war with India.

So, any civ listed above is going to be handcuffed from being able to achieve a domination victory. This keeps things like Mussolini declaring war on Hitler, or FDR joining the war on the side of the Axis from happening and completely ruining any historical value the scenario holds past the get go.

oh.. well... crap.... I'm not going to keep playing the game until turn 250 just so I can win on time. I misunderstood what you meant when you said only the Russians could win domination, I thought you meant because they started so big and had less land to take over. I guess it was just purely by chance that I never tried to declare war on an "Ally" country... so I only found out about this now. :(

If you wanted to keep it this way... then why is Russia not one of the allies? China and Arabia are permanently on the Allies side, but Russia isn't? That doesn't make much sense at all.

I would do one or some of the following if this was my scenario:

1. to make it a better "WW2" scenario, set the starting point to 1942 instead of 1939 like I suggested before. That means Russia is at war with Germany and Italy (but not yet with Japan- that happened in 1945); the USA is at war with Germany, Italy, and Japan; the Germans have already taken over France and Poland (maybe Vichy France could be made a city state and Warsaw could be a city under German occupation); and Japan already has a foothold on the Asian mainland and destroyed much of the American naval presence in the Pacific (apart from their aircraft carriers).
If you do this... you could take away the permanent peace thing... the world is already at war as it should be at the start of the game and then WW2 has 7-10 turns to play out.. after that things will happen as they do.

2. If that's too much work, then just make it a "1939" scenario and not a "WW2" scenario. Take away all the Axis and Allies permanent peace nonsense.. and anybody can play this scenario as an alternate reality starting in 1939. Similar to the classic Civ IV "1000 AD" scenario... I loved playing that scenario.. but I was never trying to go for historical accuracy. For example I found one of the best ways to win as the Arabs was to convert to Christianity and make peace with the Europeans as soon as possible.

3. If you don't want to let go of the small claim to historical accuracy this scenario has... okay... leave it as is (maybe reduce the turn limit to 100 turns instead of 150)... but AT LEAST make the Russians one of the Allies. That was the one huge event that happened early on in my game that sent me on a very different historical path... when Russia declared war on me (China). But personally I think option 1 or 2 is a better overall choice for maximum replayability.

It makes me sad :( I can't finish the scenario. I was still having quite a bit of fun... but the only thing I had left to look forward to was taking out the British and the Americans. but I can't do that, even though I played long past when the events of WW2 were relevant. :cry:

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 03:12 PM
Is there something in the XML files I can alter on my own computer to make it possible for me to declare war on everybody?

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 03:13 PM
Or better yet, is there some way to edit them so that the permanent peace expires within the scenario after 20-50 turns? That would make sense and still make the scenario playable for civs other than Russia.

rhettrongun
May 25, 2011, 04:49 PM
oh.. well... crap.... I'm not going to keep playing the game until turn 250 just so I can win on time. I misunderstood what you meant when you said only the Russians could win domination, I thought you meant because they started so big and had less land to take over. I guess it was just purely by chance that I never tried to declare war on an "Ally" country... so I only found out about this now. :(

If you wanted to keep it this way... then why is Russia not one of the allies? China and Arabia are permanently on the Allies side, but Russia isn't? That doesn't make much sense at all.

I would do one or some of the following if this was my scenario:

1. to make it a better "WW2" scenario, set the starting point to 1942 instead of 1939 like I suggested before. That means Russia is at war with Germany and Italy (but not yet with Japan- that happened in 1945); the USA is at war with Germany, Italy, and Japan; the Germans have already taken over France and Poland (maybe Vichy France could be made a city state and Warsaw could be a city under German occupation); and Japan already has a foothold on the Asian mainland and destroyed much of the American naval presence in the Pacific (apart from their aircraft carriers).
If you do this... you could take away the permanent peace thing... the world is already at war as it should be at the start of the game and then WW2 has 7-10 turns to play out.. after that things will happen as they do.

2. If that's too much work, then just make it a "1939" scenario and not a "WW2" scenario. Take away all the Axis and Allies permanent peace nonsense.. and anybody can play this scenario as an alternate reality starting in 1939. Similar to the classic Civ IV "1000 AD" scenario... I loved playing that scenario.. but I was never trying to go for historical accuracy. For example I found one of the best ways to win as the Arabs was to convert to Christianity and make peace with the Europeans as soon as possible.

3. If you don't want to let go of the small claim to historical accuracy this scenario has... okay... leave it as is (maybe reduce the turn limit to 100 turns instead of 150)... but AT LEAST make the Russians one of the Allies. That was the one huge event that happened early on in my game that sent me on a very different historical path... when Russia declared war on me (China). But personally I think option 1 or 2 is a better overall choice for maximum replayability.

It makes me sad :( I can't finish the scenario. I was still having quite a bit of fun... but the only thing I had left to look forward to was taking out the British and the Americans. but I can't do that, even though I played long past when the events of WW2 were relevant. :cry:

Have you tried using the live tuner? IIRC you can force declare war using it, though I could be wrong about that. It's worth a check if you're really wanting to go to town on the remaining challenges in your current game. If you've never used the tuner just google it "firetuner Runtime Lua Console", and read up on how to activate it for use. After you've got it up and running it's pretty user friendly to figure out.

As far as the Soviet Union not being part of the Allies in this scenario, I did this based on my current knowledge of World War 2 history & also some considerations for the scenario. I'm certainly no historian, but I've always had an interest in the war and have taken a course focused on it as well.

Hitler & Stalin initially had a non-aggression agreement at the invasion of Poland (that Hitler would eventually go against), so that they could divide it up. I had previously made it so that Russia starts out at war with Warsaw, but the world builder messed this up somehow so I ended up just scrapping it.
The west generally didn't trust the USSR and Stalin was supremely paranoid to the point that he probably distrusted the west even more than they did him. Many westerners actually considered Hitler to be a bulwark against the spread of Sovietism prior to Hitler going off the deep end with his aggression in Europe.
Most historians agree that Hitler declaring war on the Soviet Union (along with the United States) was one of his biggest blunders of the war. Since there is no way to script events like this I thought it would be nice to allow German civ players the option to try to play defensively against Russia, and focus more on taking Great Britain & the middle East before any potential Barbarossa campaign. Regardless, a war between even AI controlled USSR & Germany almost always seems to occur due simply to their proximity after Warsaw is captured.

China and the USSR are not equivalent in their relation to the Allies in WW2. The USSR was far more powerful, and did not rely on any western power for aid and defense against Japan. In fact the Soviet Union successfully beat back an offensive from the Japanese by itself in the Mongolian conflict leading up to the war in the late 1930s. China on the other hand, was heavily reliant on foreign policy from the west to prevent Japan from exploiting it.

Also, Stalin and FDR are certainly not equivalent in their relation to their joining the Allies in WW2, so I think the distinction between their civs in the scenario is ok.

On Arabia, I'm not very clear. I thought it was under heavy influence from GB leading up to the war and had little to no axis leanings, so it seemed to make sense that they were a standard ally.

The consideration for the scenario is to sort of keep Germany from getting squashed too early in the game. If the USSR is an ally like the US, then it will almost undoubtedly declare war on Germany around turn 10 or so when it had lost a lot of units from fighting in Europe. With the ability to war with anyone it wants, it tends to do stuff like invade Iran or Turkey instead. Neither of which is historically correct, but it makes the game more interesting in my opinion then the Nazis getting wiped out 15 or so turns into the game.

The other reason for the game's current setup and probably the reason for your game going on a strange tangent are explained in the opening post. The AI views civs that are conquering other civs as aggressive or "warmongering" regardless of who is an Ally or part of the Axis. That's why I made Manchuria owned by China in the early game, and also why I have seemingly pointless events like Warsaw/Seoul starting the game as free city-states. Otherwise the game would see China as the aggressive warmonger if it began to take back a Manchuria that Japan started off controlling.

As is, civs like Japan & Germany (possibly Italy too) are consistently seen as warmongering aggressors by the other AI controlled civs. This is a good thing.

rhettrongun
May 25, 2011, 05:13 PM
I'll add that if you're still dissatisfied with Russia, you should feel free to just edit the scenario yourself. Changing "permanent war or peace" settings is very easy.

Just open the map file using world builder and go to the scenario settings menu, select Russia from the player list and check whatever boxes correspond to the allies players under the "permanent war or peace" diplomatic status drop down menu.

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 05:17 PM
Points taken... I would just say that even though here is a very long list of belligerents in WW2... the "canonical" Allies are the UK, the USA, and the USSR. The "canonical" Axis powers are Germany, Italy, and Japan. Without those 3 on the right side it just doesn't feel right to me. But... I totally agree with you that it can be fun to play through things in a different way. For example playing as the Germans and trying to maintain a peace with the Soviets. But if you're going to go that route... well then why tie the hands of the USA or any other country for that matter? There were many Americans sympathetic to Germany prior to Pearl Harbor.

As for China/Arabia... eh.... yes China was getting aid from the Americans. But were they hard and fast allies? Not really. I could easily see an alternate history where China gives up Manchuria (which wasn't even really theirs anyway) to appease Japan and works out some kind of non-aggression pact with them in exchange for help against the USSR. The two cultures had a lot more in common than the Japanese had with the Nazis... they didn't really start hating each other until after the rape of Nanking.
And Arabia... well there were and still are many Arabs who loved Hitler for his stance on mass-murdering Jews. I live in Saudi Arabia and can speak with some authority on this matter. Little Arabia history lesson, since you admit you don't know.
The Arabian Peninsula was dominated by the Ottoman Empire before the 20th Century. The Ottomans were allied with the Germans in WW1 and ended up fighting and losing to the British during that war, after which point the empire basically fell apart. This is how Israel and Jordan came under British rule. This was before the discovery of oil in Arabia so nobody had any interest in the Arabian desert, but the British did lend nominal support (definitely not "heavy influence") to AbdulAziz ibn Saud when he went about establishing his kingdom because ibn Saud was at first taking lands away from the Ottomans.
The Ilkwahn (bedouin soldiers) allied with ibn Saud wanted to take over the British possessions of Palestine and Jordan... but ibn Saud was rightly afraid of a direct conflict with them and held off on this. The bedouin leaders revolted and were executed for it. So at this point the only thing allying Arabia with the Brits was fear of their army.
They discovered oil in in 1938. That's when the Americans showed up. So the Sauds did have some ties to the Americans but it had only just begun by this period in history, and they could have just as easily told the Americans to get lost. They didn't have a history of any sort.
So.. long story short... Saudi Arabia was not even really involved in WW2 at all. They were afraid of the British but certainly not loyal to them, and they were recent business partners of the Americans but that relationship was still extremely new. Ideologically, they were very much in favor of the Jew-killing Nazis, only their fear and greed kept them from declaring total support for Adolph Hitler and declaring a war to liberate Palestine from the Imperialist/Zionist British. That's why it makes no sense for them to be doggedly loyal to the Allies' cause.

I understand your other points. And I'm going to play around with the saved game file to see if I can fix the permanent peace thing in my own game.

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 05:18 PM
sorry for the stupid question... but how do I open worldbuilder? :-/ I haven't found it yet. I thought it wasn't included in this game.

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 05:42 PM
tried looking for firetuner Runtime Lua Console... found a few tutorials on how to use it... can't find the thing itself.. :P will keep looking.

Still can't find it. :(

If I can figure out how to turn off the permanent alliances I'll probably play through the scenario again with a different civ or two. If I can't... that's kind of a deal breaker for me. I don't want to only be allowed to win on time and not be able to have a another British-Chinese war even 50 years after WW2 would have concluded.

one more question: you mentioned playing through the game as the Argentinians... are all civs supposed to be playable?
Because when I load up the mod on my PC... my only options are The UK, USA, Germany, Italy, Russia, China, Egypt, India, Japan, and Greece, I think... there is a lot of empty space under those civs but nothing I click on. And the ability to do Advanced Setup is not there for this scenario. If I could choose the other civs I might try to. I like playing at the underdogs. For instance I won the Civ IV 1000 AD scenario as the Aztecs once.. and their starting position is absolutely horrible.

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 06:08 PM
Another question, sorry:

what about Teams?

If the Allies are on one team, and the axis on another.. can you win a domination victory if you just eliminate all the capital cities of the opposing team? plus any independents. I don't know how this works, I've never experimented with using teams in Civ V.

rhettrongun
May 25, 2011, 07:43 PM
Ok, I'll just help you with getting world builder so you can set it up however you want. Maybe you'll like tinkering around with it as much as I did, and end up making your own scenario.

-Open up Steam and go to the "Library" section.
-Select "All games" drop down menu and click on "tools".
-An alphabetical list shows up. From it select "Sid Meier's Civilization V SDK" and it should download/install the modding tools for you.

As far as the teams go, this scenario doesn't actually use real teams. So, that doesn't matter. If it was a real team game, every civ on a team would have shared vision/technology/diplomacy.

I've never seen the issue where some civs do not show up as playable. Even so, I think someone else already reported that earlier ITT, and someone posted a solution to it.

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 07:50 PM
Ok, I'll just help you with getting world builder so you can set it up however you want. Maybe you'll like tinkering around with it as much as I did, and end up making your own scenario..

possibly. :) I made several scenarios for Civ IV just using the basic world builder... never got around to uploading any of them though... by the time I was finished I thought that nobody was playing Civ IV anymore. I work slow.

My custom factions for Alpha Centauri were awesome, IMO... haha. I loved that game. So easy to customize.

Ghandi Khan
May 25, 2011, 07:55 PM
oh okay I see. I need some "DLC" civs... which ones do I need? I downloaded the Spanish for free. I have not downloaded anything I had to pay for. I guess I need Polynesia and the Vikings?

In my game, I guess to make up for the fact that I don't have all the DLC I'm supposed to have, some civs are repeated. For instance Elizabeth is used for both the British and the Spanish. Alexander is used for both Greece and Australia. Maybe those are the only two. If I DL Spain and Polynesia am I good to go?

[edit: okay... online the DLC (so damn expensive... $5-$7 for one or two civs + a scenario?? no wonder I haven't downloaded any of this stuff before. It should be like 99 cents max for a scenario) has civs for Babylon, Spain + Inca, Polynesia, and The Vikings.
I assume the ones I need are Babylon (Iraq), Polynesia (Australia), and Spain (Spain)... right?

by the way I got WorldBuilder to work. Thank you for the help with that. I never used Steam for anything other than to download Civ 5. Using WorldBuilder, I was able to figure out that the blank spot that appears for me for playable civs begins with Iraq... which I assume is supposed to match up with the Babylonian civilization which I have not yet downloaded.. so that explains that.

I already downloaded a MOD for free that adds Isabella back into the mix. Is that good enough to work for her or do I need the DLC Isabella? Anybody know?]

os84
May 26, 2011, 02:54 AM
My custom factions for Alpha Centauri were awesome, IMO... haha. I loved that game. So easy to customize.[/QUOTE]

So true! Where have to good days gone? Costumizing scenarios had been pretty easy with Civ3 too, as i remember..

Ghandi Khan
May 26, 2011, 03:28 AM
I know a lot of people really loved Civ 3 but for whatever reason that one passed me by...

I played Civ 1 a bit... my older cousin had it and introduced me to it, and after that I convinced my World Civ teacher that the game had some educational value and so after that all the computers in the Mac Lab had it installed.

I played Civ 2 through a few times start to finish when I borrowed it from my cousin.

Civ 3 I never played until many years later, after Civ 4 had already been out for a long time, and at that point it seemed dated.

Civ 4 I played to death... I don't know how many 1000s of hours I've dumped into that game...
my favorite thing to do with that game was to make complex but tiny maps for fast games that still had an epic feel. I'm creating my first such map for Civ 5 since you helped me find the worldbuilder tool... thanks..

but, as much as I have gotten my money's worth from Civ 4, Alpha Centauri was still my favorite... it was just so easy to edit... civs were simple text files, graphics were all on one sheet, and audio was all mp3s... I made some *wildly* different civs in that game.. that forced you to play the game very very differently. And then I play tested them over and over and over and over just to make sure they were balanced even in spite of being enormously different. (I'm not talking something boring like +1 gold on each plot or +10% combat bonus... I had Civs that could not research new technologies, civs that could not support armies of more than a couple units, civs that had zero population growth, etc... each had huge strengths and huge handicaps... but I actually got them all to be perfectly balanced against each other. So much fun. Wish I still had that game...

os84
May 26, 2011, 07:46 AM
loved alpha centauri too. i really like the idea to focus on a common target/city, together with youre AI-buddy. just so many brilliant ideas, dont know where to start to list them. there had been a alpha-centrauri MOD for CIV 4 - did you play it?

Ghandi Khan
May 26, 2011, 03:07 PM
loved alpha centauri too. i really like the idea to focus on a common target/city, together with youre AI-buddy. just so many brilliant ideas, dont know where to start to list them. there had been a alpha-centrauri MOD for CIV 4 - did you play it?

No, I never played it.
I loved being able to customize my units.
I liked the isomorphic terrain and the fact that you could raise or lower global sea levels, and create giant craters with Planet Buster missles (I also think it appropriate that the entire world declared war on you when you did.. in Civ 5 people use nukes and nobody seems to notice or care.)
there were lots of things to like about that game...


Anyway... I finished my first map using worldbuilder. It's pretty simple. but for some reason I can't get it to load. The game stops responding every time I attempt to being the scenario. No idea why. :( I wasn't trying anything fancy.. just 19 civs and 8 city states on a smallish map. No DLC or mods.

Ghandi Khan
May 28, 2011, 01:05 PM
Have you tried using the live tuner? IIRC you can force declare war using it, though I could be wrong about that. It's worth a check if you're really wanting to go to town on the remaining challenges in your current game. If you've never used the tuner just google it "firetuner Runtime Lua Console", and read up on how to activate it for use. After you've got it up and running it's pretty user friendly to figure out.

Is there any way to change a saved game other than this? I can't find the program anywhere... I'm sorry I keep spamming your scenario thread with my own problems. :sad: If I ever start another game using the scenario I'll definitely make some changes in WorldBuilder first but that doesn't work for my game already in progress.

nokmirt
Jun 09, 2011, 09:47 PM
Interesting game so far. I am playing as America. Right now I suppose it is in my best interest to gather more oil resources, which I have done. The Phillipines need to be fortified so, troops and aircraft are on there way there. In the meantime, I have denounced Japan, and Germany. I see I have a bit of a u-boat problem off the Eastern Seaboard, so I will have to build more coastal defense ships and subs. France could use some help, if they survive I will start building an expeditionary force and send it over, if possible. :)

Ghandi Khan
Jun 10, 2011, 01:45 AM
Interesting game so far. I am playing as America. Right now I suppose it is in my best interest to gather more oil resources, which I have done. The Phillipines need to be fortified so, troops and aircraft are on there way there. In the meantime, I have denounced Japan, and Germany. I see I have a bit of a u-boat problem off the Eastern Seaboard, so I will have to build more coastal defense ships and subs. France could use some help, if they survive I will start building an expeditionary force and send it over, if possible. :)

France won't last long without help... but I was able to successfully defend Manchuria and Hong Kong playing as the Chinese. I imagine the Americans are more powerful than I was when I started my game.

I still haven't figured out how to change my save game mid-game to turn off the stupid always peace thing... which blocks the only path to victory for everybody except Russia. :mad: Very disappointed about that as I was hoping to finish my game as the Chinese but I cannot.

Ghandi Khan
Jun 10, 2011, 02:54 AM
and... what the hell... :(

okay I decided to try and give this scenario one more whirl even though I'm still upset I can't finish my China game.
I loaded up the map in WorldBuilder so I could edit just a couple things. I changed a few of the civs and the starting year and I think I took off the silly permanent peace thing (though it didn't appear to be there when I loaded the scenario initially anyway. ?) Anyway, just minor changes.

I load up the game and the map and try to start... the game freezes.

What's wrong with my World Builder?? :(

I made a small simple map and I could never get that to work. I uploaded it here and nobody offered any advice on what I was doing wrong.

Then I took this scenario and made some very minor changes, saved it, and now I can't get it to load either.

wtf... I'm not using some strange 3rd party program to edit these maps/scenarios... I'm just using the tools I downloaded from Steam.

nokmirt
Jun 10, 2011, 11:11 AM
France won't last long without help... but I was able to successfully defend Manchuria and Hong Kong playing as the Chinese. I imagine the Americans are more powerful than I was when I started my game.

I still haven't figured out how to change my save game mid-game to turn off the stupid always peace thing... which blocks the only path to victory for everybody except Russia. :mad: Very disappointed about that as I was hoping to finish my game as the Chinese but I cannot.

I will try later.

Ghandi Khan
Jun 10, 2011, 02:36 PM
In your original reply (which showed up in my inbox) you said something about it being a game issue... it's not. It's just a feature of this scenario that you only have two paths to victory (time and domination) and because of the permanent peace that is in place between those parties at war at the start of the game... only Russia has the opportunity to actually win.

If you are playing as the Americans you will not be able to win a domination victory because you can't declare war on Britain and several other countries. Though I guess one twisted backward way of doing it would be to give help to Germany and Japan until they conquered most of the world... and then stab them in the back and conquer them... of course by the time that happened your 150 turns would have probably already ended.

I like this scenario except that I hate it. :P I tried to change the permanent peace thing but apparently I'm too dumb to figure out how. Whenever I change a map in worldbuilder it crashes my game when I try to play it.

nokmirt
Jun 11, 2011, 03:32 PM
In your original reply (which showed up in my inbox) you said something about it being a game issue... it's not. It's just a feature of this scenario that you only have two paths to victory (time and domination) and because of the permanent peace that is in place between those parties at war at the start of the game... only Russia has the opportunity to actually win.

If you are playing as the Americans you will not be able to win a domination victory because you can't declare war on Britain and several other countries. Though I guess one twisted backward way of doing it would be to give help to Germany and Japan until they conquered most of the world... and then stab them in the back and conquer them... of course by the time that happened your 150 turns would have probably already ended.

I like this scenario except that I hate it. :P I tried to change the permanent peace thing but apparently I'm too dumb to figure out how. Whenever I change a map in worldbuilder it crashes my game when I try to play it.

You can play just to have fun. I am moreso concerned with trying it. So far it is fun. The 150 turns seemed like to few, but in game that would be awhile. There is the usual just one more turn.

Ghandi Khan
Jun 11, 2011, 06:40 PM
You can play just to have fun. I am moreso concerned with trying it. So far it is fun. The 150 turns seemed like to few, but in game that would be awhile. There is the usual just one more turn.

Well of course, why else play if not to have fun? But for me it would be more fun if I could actually win the game and declare war on whom I chose.

I think if you play through you will find that 150 turns is more than enough time. You are starting in the Industrial/Modern era with the world already made and cities already largely developed... so that's plenty of time.

nokmirt
Jun 12, 2011, 10:16 AM
Well of course, why else play if not to have fun? But for me it would be more fun if I could actually win the game and declare war on whom I chose.

I think if you play through you will find that 150 turns is more than enough time. You are starting in the Industrial/Modern era with the world already made and cities already largely developed... so that's plenty of time.

The first game I am playing just through the industrial era, just to give it that WW2 feel. Of course I can't build atomic weapons, but oh well. I will let you know what I think of the scenario as I go along.

rhettrongun
Jun 12, 2011, 01:39 PM
and... what the hell... :(

okay I decided to try and give this scenario one more whirl even though I'm still upset I can't finish my China game.
I loaded up the map in WorldBuilder so I could edit just a couple things. I changed a few of the civs and the starting year and I think I took off the silly permanent peace thing (though it didn't appear to be there when I loaded the scenario initially anyway. ?) Anyway, just minor changes.

I load up the game and the map and try to start... the game freezes.

What's wrong with my World Builder?? :(

I made a small simple map and I could never get that to work. I uploaded it here and nobody offered any advice on what I was doing wrong.

Then I took this scenario and made some very minor changes, saved it, and now I can't get it to load either.

wtf... I'm not using some strange 3rd party program to edit these maps/scenarios... I'm just using the tools I downloaded from Steam.

Hello again. I have seen something similar happen myself actually. The game would freeze/CTD at the civ leader splash screen a few seconds after I clicked begin scenario. IIRC the problem was there were some British airplanes that were mistakenly placed onto another civ's city. Quite an annoying little thing to finally root out too, as they were not easily noticed.

As far as the permanent peace problem goes, I have always played the scenario the way Nokmirt seems to be describing. Actually winning the scenario, and in many cases most other civ 5 games I play, is not a big deal. I don't care much for the end game reward in Civ 5. Just a score and a little victory screen.

Now if there was 1 of those map sequences like Civ 3 & 4 used to have at the end of the game, then I might have had more concern for finishing off more Civ 5 games.

Ghandi Khan
Jun 12, 2011, 06:39 PM
It's not necessarily that I'm obsessed with the end of game screen... though it's nice, if the scenario has it set up that domination victory is the only victory achievable, for this at least to be *possible*...

my main issue was that in my first game I was playing as the Chinese.. ended up at war with Russia because they are one of the few (only?) civs not shackled by this permanent war/peace malarky.. and ended up going down the path of a completely alternate history. I was having fun.. and then in my game when I was at a point that would have been many years after WW2 ended... I couldn't declare war on my "allies" Britain and the USA and complete my conquests. That was disappointing and anti-climactic.

Also, as I reasoned before, it makes no sense for certain civs to be shackled like Arabia and China and many others... while Russia is not..
If you play this scenario as an alternate history one that starts in '39... then it makes no sense for *any* of the civs to be shackled in such a manner. I mean it was only a few short years after this scenario began in real world terms that Germany was divided and at peace, that Japan became an ally of the United States, the India started agitating for independence from the British Empire, and so on. I don't feel the scenario plays particularly well as a pure WW2 scenario... so I feel that it's real value (as an alternate history 1939 scenario, similar to Civ IV's classic Earth 1000 AD scenario) has been lost.

Ghandi Khan
Jun 12, 2011, 06:54 PM
moving on... I started a new game this time as Nazi Germany. The only thing I changed was I set the game speed to Marathon.

I very easily conquered Paris and Warsaw and Athens. I don't anticipate much resistance from the UK as I can see their islands and know they don't have much there.

Playing at marathon speed makes you *really* feel the loss of every unit. I'm trying to play as efficiently as possible. Production times are already very long, but add to that the fact that Germany has many more units than it can support (which applies a -70% modifier to their industry) and you end up with one bomber being constructed in Berlin taking 50 turns.

U-boats are super strong. One of the best things about them... and I assume this is probably a mistake... they are devastating against cities. This doesn't make much sense... but I don't feel too bad about exploiting it since their greatest weakness (that they are easily picked off by the RAF) also doesn't seem very realistic.

I used the gold in my coffers at the start of the game to immediately makes allies of Belgium and Serbia. India made allies of the Swedes and I lost a destroyer to Swedish artillery... this is also annoying since there is only one water space next to Stockholm and I can't move my Battleship out of the Baltic now without getting stuck there. I'll have to move some units and take them over when I get a chance.

The USA has been very friendly toward me the whole game. Italy and Japan were among the first to denounce me.

No problems with the Soviet Union. Japan took over Korea and Manchuria, but didn't get anywhere in China proper. the USSR just declared war on Japan, though, so I expect the mainland Asian cities to go to the Soviets.

I was trying to finish Oxford so I could get a free tech but I made the mistake of annexing Warsaw. Now I don't have a university in every city.

nokmirt
Jun 13, 2011, 11:14 AM
My save game got screwed up somehow, first time I've had an issue with that. Perhaps caused by some mods I used. Has anyone had problems reloading saves for this mod?

rhettrongun
Jun 13, 2011, 03:35 PM
My save game got screwed up somehow, first time I've had an issue with that. Perhaps caused by some mods I used. Has anyone had problems reloading saves for this mod?

I know the game won't allow a save to open if all mods (those not save compatible anyways) started with are not equal upon loading. If you have shuffled them around since last time you played that is probably the cause.

Ghandi Khan
Jun 15, 2011, 11:10 AM
Update on my game as the Germans-

By Turn 27 Germany had easily conquered Poland, France, Greece, England, Ireland, Norway, Iceland, Egypt, the Sudan, the western half of Arabia and the eastern half of Canada.

Italy finally managed to conquer Tunis in the same span of time (one whole city! what a bunch of overachievers. :P) and Japan has conquered large portions of east and southeast Asia.

Italy and Japan have both repeatedly denounced me. Meanwhile the USA has been one of my staunchest allies (their open borders allowed my navy to get through Panama and start bombarding Canada's western cities) and I've never had any problems at all from the Soviets. Russia declared war on Japan a while back... but then quickly made peace again. Belgium has also been a staunch ally from the start, though of course their loyalty is up for sale as a city state.

Once again, if this is supposed to be an accurate WW2 scenario I think it's a mistake to not put Russia and the US in the war from the get-go. If I had had to worry about war with Russia on the eastern front and contend with the American navy in the Atlantic I probably could not have had so much success so quickly.

My production has improved since I lost enough units and took over enough cities that I'm not getting the military overextension penalty anymore.

Finally, after turn 27 or 28 the game crashed... :P last autosave was on turn 20 so I don't think I'll bother going back. Even if both the US and USSR declared on me at this point I don't think it would make a big difference. My veteran units were rolling over everything even split into 2-3 different groups.

Ghandi Khan
Jun 16, 2011, 08:05 AM
I started one more game. This time as France.

By the end of turn FOUR, I had successfully defended France and Belgium from the Germans/Italians and defended IndoChina, Hong Kong, and Singapore from the Japanese. On top of that, on the same turn I had so thoroughly beaten back my attackers that I was able to take both Rome from the Italians and Haiku from the Japanese.

Other weird developments...
1. I'm assisting the Arabs in their attack on Italian East Africa. The Arabs have a destroyer patrolling the Gulf of Aden. (wtf?? it's 2011 and they still have a crap navy. In 1939, unless they had taught some of their camels to swim, they had no navy to speak of at all and certainly not a destroyer)
2. India declared war on the USSR

I must reiterate that France is way too strong in this scenario... even though I rolled over them easily when I just played as the Germans. Maybe the real problem is that I am just too good at this game. If I could turn off the permanent war/peace I would try to conquer the world as the Greeks or the Argentinians or Thais. That might be a fun challenge.

My proposed solutions: 1. Give northern France to Germany. Make southern France into a city-state, call it Vichy France, and make it an ally of Germany. Make Poland German-occupied. 2. To balance out the increase in German power, start the USSR at war with Germany and start the USA at war with both Germany and Japan. 3. take away permanent war/peace. (obviously it doesn't take that long to play out the events of WW2 if I was able to take over Italy as *France* in less than 7 turns... so permanent war/peace is unecessary if the AI won't make peace for 7 turns)

Ghandi Khan
Jun 17, 2011, 11:23 AM
update on my France game.

By the end of turn 21 the following events have unfolded:

- the French army has taken Hamburg, Berlin, and Geneva. The German Empire is teetering on the brink of total destruction.

- the French navy has cleared the Atlantic of German U-boats, and the navy of French Indo-China has decimated the Japanese fleet. (haha..)

- the army of French Indo-China (snicker..) has conquered Taiwan/Formosa, Dandong, and with a little bit of help from China also has liberated Korea.

- with nominal support from the British and even more nominal support from Arabia, France has completely wiped out the Italian civilization.

- around turn 5 or so Turkey declared war on France and set their army afloat in the Mediterranean where it swiftly met its demise at the hands of the French navy and airforce. 10 or so turns later Turkey surrendered and gave France a nice compensation package for their troubles.

- on turn 9 I was finally able to convince the USA to go to war on the Allies side by bribing them. They declared war on both Germany and Japan... though I haven't actually witnessed them making any contribution to the war effort.

- once again Russia has failed to take anything like the pivotal central role it played in real life. India declared war on them early on, and more recently the Chinese declared war on them, as well. They were very friendly toward me (the French) up until a few turns ago when overnight they became hostile. Given this change in mood I'll probably go after Moscow after I liberate Warsaw and finish off the Germans.

Once Russia falls and I've captured the rest of Manchuria I'll stage a land invasion of Japan proper. I anticipate that all taking another 15-20 turns meaning the Axis powers AND Russia (the one rogue state in the scenario) will be completely wiped out in under 40 turns.

..by France.

hehe

bedeber
Jun 29, 2011, 12:02 PM
Great scenario, decided to start a new game but now no matter which nation I choose it always loads England. Anyone else had this problem?

Ghandi Khan
Jun 29, 2011, 03:08 PM
Great scenario, decided to start a new game but now no matter which nation I choose it always loads England. Anyone else had this problem?

England seems to be the default choice. Have you tried changing the civ after you load the scenario?

I had some problems related to the fact that I had not downloaded all the DLC... but I figured out a way around this. I think yours is a different problem, though.

Koenvanderven
Jul 05, 2011, 03:38 AM
Great scenario, decided to start a new game but now no matter which nation I choose it always loads England. Anyone else had this problem?

Same problem here, anyone got a solution? :confused:

Gedemon
Jul 05, 2011, 10:26 AM
yep : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=429473

rhettrongun
Jul 05, 2011, 11:09 AM
As far as this scenario goes, I managed to make an altered version of the world map that has more space in Europe and north Africa. I've been sitting on it for a couple weeks since the tedious part of resetting cities was still ahead. It should be a nice improvement when I finally finish though, as I have picked up on how to make xml changes much better after making the Greek/Persia scenario.

A few changes I thought of are to remove the permanent peace settings from the game, fix dates/game speed, handcuff research into the modern era, and mod units/buildings to better suit the scenario. I welcome suggestions as well.

Koenvanderven
Jul 06, 2011, 10:22 AM
Hey Rhettrongun,

Very nice Mod, best WW2 mod around ;).

Take a look at these:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10220757#post10220757
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10074144#post10074144
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10090107#post10090107
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9987184#post9987184
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10001526#post10001526

rhettrongun
Jul 06, 2011, 04:32 PM
Hey Rhettrongun,

Very nice Mod, best WW2 mod around ;).

Take a look at these:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10220757#post10220757
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10074144#post10074144
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10090107#post10090107
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9987184#post9987184
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10001526#post10001526

Thanks,

Those look great, and it would be nice to be able to use them. I actually looked into using many of those just yesterday and unfortunately I basically hit a brick wall on the "UnitArtDefine" (can't recall if that's exactly the name or not) modding part. These unit art xml files are apparently not part of the regular xml database, so without being able to look at how the vanillas are put together I'm at a loss on how to proceed. Kael's guide doesn't really cover that subject very well also.

The other problem is I found my bungling with the icon graphics I had in mind to use did not save correctly (was using Gimp). Not being proficient with photoshop/gimp, I probably wasted 3 hrs total trying to somehow use those graphics/change unit icons. For now I can just go with modified civ unique units, which is something I already know how to do.

ie. give several civs unique early WW2 fighters to replace the vanilla fighter & then give several civs unique late WW2 fighters to replace the vanilla jet.
In both cases I would just use the vanilla fighter graphic.

rhettrongun
Jul 07, 2011, 01:28 PM
I have attached an early version with the new changes implemented to the old map (that has been modified slightly) in the OP. It appears to be working correctly during the early game, but I haven't had a chance to test it into the mid-late game where new techs begin showing up.

If anyone wants to give it a go and tell me any issues they come across, that is welcome.

Civilopedia entries are not nearly complete, and I might add in some more unique buildings/units as well. Other than that it looks pretty good from what I have seen.
FYI: All tanks/aircraft are supposed to use oil, so any uniques that don't follow this are wrong.

The new map with additional space in Europe/N. Africa is still in progress due to the tediousness of having to reset all the cities.

rhettrongun
Jul 11, 2011, 01:18 AM
I've uploaded a new version that has all the changes I wanted in right now, plus uses the new enlarged Europe map. I've frankly been a bit obsessed with finishing it this past week :crazyeye:, so I'm glad to be done with it for a while (assuming there are no major problems people find anyways).

My first impression is that it is quite a bit better than the old version. I'll add to this thread some installation instructions and list most of the changes later this week.

YourDeath/TSAR
Jul 12, 2011, 02:13 PM
Can u pls change the colours of USSR into red. Its a vital difference. Yellow was the colour of imperial russia, not soviet russia

rhettrongun
Jul 12, 2011, 02:47 PM
Yeah, I can do that. Good idea, plus it's easy to change and I have a new version I am about to post anyways. I'll just add that to it.

dasvidania
Jul 14, 2011, 01:48 PM
I have only mongol DLC and i tried the scenario but i'm not able to load it. I never find the map, my MAP folder is empty. Could you give me any help ?

rhettrongun
Jul 14, 2011, 02:45 PM
I have only mongol DLC and i tried the scenario but i'm not able to load it. I never find the map, my MAP folder is empty. Could you give me any help ?

I can help you with the map problem. Download the attached zip file from the opening post, and put the entire WWII Full Earth Campaign (v5) folder into your Civ 5 mods folder. To make sure the maps show up you then open the downloaded folder, open the "Maps" subfolder and move the 4 included maps into your Civ 5 Maps folder. This is typically located under a documents/my games/Civ 5 line. Make sure you have enabled the mod of course also.

Not having Spain, Inca, or Polynesia might make the scenario unplayable. I'm not really sure on that part. The only options other than using the DLC civs were to make my own custom civs (a lot more work), or use someone else's custom civs. The latter might have been a good idea to go with, but it's something I didn't think of when I was making it.

diebenny
Jul 14, 2011, 03:52 PM
I can't seem to get the map to load. I've put all the maps in the map folder and the mod is enabled and in the mods folder. Hmmm.... I had an older version of it work, but since v3 I haven't been able to get it to show up in the game. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

rhettrongun
Jul 14, 2011, 09:06 PM
I can't seem to get the map to load. I've put all the maps in the map folder and the mod is enabled and in the mods folder. Hmmm.... I had an older version of it work, but since v3 I haven't been able to get it to show up in the game. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

It sounds like at least the mod is showing up. So, the maps are simply not in game setup? I'm not sure why that would be if you've placed them in your maps folder. I will do a test run of the maps I have in the download package, and verify the basic map works.

rhettrongun
Jul 14, 2011, 09:23 PM
I just loaded up 1 of the maps from the download package located in the opening post of this thread with no problem. I of course moved my existing duplicates out of the Maps folder first, so I was actually verifying the packaged maps.

If you have a civ 5 map file in your Maps folder, my experience is it should always show up in game. The only thing I can think to try, assuming you know for sure you have the latest maps in your maps folder, is that maybe for some reason you need to also have the map files in the applicable mod/maps folder.

Lastly, perhaps you have the maps in the wrong folder? You may want to double check if you're still having problems getting them to show up. I posted the typical line of folders where it is located a few posts up.

The Mastermind
Jul 19, 2011, 12:02 AM
EDIT - Nevermind, figured it out.

Fantastic mod.

wulfy
Jul 23, 2011, 08:34 AM
Beautiful Mod, great work; but my Germans are orange :(

os84
Jul 23, 2011, 09:53 AM
Beautiful Mod, great work; but my Germans are orange :(
Yeah, they should be field-grey. Missing that too. Btw, a very detailed and great MOD!

rhettrongun
Jul 23, 2011, 10:31 AM
:D I figured that wouldn't look right to some people. Thanks for the feedback as always. Glad the mod is liked overall. Next update is looking like it will be a nice improvement.

Well, the color changing with Germany was a result of having a problem with their map view flag icon showing up correctly. I kept trying to find a color that didn't blend in with another already in use, so that led to using gold in the last update.

Since then, I have found that their original grey color works with the flag icon in use now. So, that will be put back next time I post an update.

Just to give my reasoning for the gold color, I picked it because the German flag has gold in it. I realize it looks orange in game and just plain looks bad though, so that's that I suppose.

wulfy
Jul 24, 2011, 07:17 PM
Make no mistake rhettrongun, your mod is the best WWII mode to date. Great work.

i_diavolorosso
Jul 24, 2011, 11:50 PM
Trying this one.
Great scenario!

One thing i wanna ask, though

Can't you do something 'bout the turn increment?
I'm playing on epic, currently on the 3rd turn but the year is already 1989 LOL

rhettrongun
Jul 25, 2011, 10:55 AM
Trying this one.
Great scenario!

One thing i wanna ask, though

Can't you do something 'bout the turn increment?
I'm playing on epic, currently on the 3rd turn but the year is already 1989 LOL

Thanks, the scenario includes a mod component for a timeline change that slows progression to 1 month/turn. It only works on the standard gamespeed though.

Unit/building/tech costs were all balanced in terms of standard gamespeed also. Unit training costs are actually scaled down slightly, so it is easier to build large armies.

Out of curiosity, what made you want to play it on epic? Does the tech level advance too fast on standard?

i_diavolorosso
Jul 26, 2011, 12:22 AM
Thanks, the scenario includes a mod component for a timeline change that slows progression to 1 month/turn. It only works on the standard gamespeed though.

Unit/building/tech costs were all balanced in terms of standard gamespeed also. Unit training costs are actually scaled down slightly, so it is easier to build large armies.

Out of curiosity, what made you want to play it on epic? Does the tech level advance too fast on standard?
Oh, so the turn works well on standard?
Will give it a try ;)

No, it just that i'm used to play on epic in my "normal" game.
Hadn't tried the standard one before :p

lancelot1968
Jul 27, 2011, 07:46 AM
This scenario mod looks great but I have a request.

Is it possible to make a hugh WWII european mod. With the map going from the east coast of the US to the oeral in Russia and from the north Pole to the Sahara in Africa. Would be a great scenario to be able to play imo.

rhettrongun
Jul 27, 2011, 11:52 PM
Gedemon and a few helpers are currently making one that spans an area close to that actually. He has a thread in the C&C main forum titled R.E.D. if you want to check it out. Looks like a good one.

Farrapo
Jul 29, 2011, 06:21 AM
I have the scenario (v7) properly downloaded and enabled, can access the maps, but it crashes trying to load load. Perhaps it is my lack of the DLCs as you speculate above. I'd be interested to know if anyone else is able to run this mod without them - can't think of anything else it could be and I could run an earlier version.

dlmt3
Aug 01, 2011, 07:32 AM
I am playing as Germany and love the scenario. France fell with ease, I even conquered Britain and Ireland, and egypt.

The one problem i have with it is that, at the start of the scenario, Germany has the largest army in the world, which is wrong. The USSR should have the largest army, They had almost 10000 more tanks then Germany, and the largest air force in the world.

I find that invading the Soviet Union was much to easy, and is now just taking city after city. Soviet conscripts should also have extremely low production rates, and a good unit flavor. Also USSR should be tolerant of war mongers because after World War 1 they were not looking for war.

rhettrongun
Aug 01, 2011, 09:53 AM
I am playing as Germany and love the scenario. France fell with ease, I even conquered Britain and Ireland, and egypt.

The one problem i have with it is that, at the start of the scenario, Germany has the largest army in the world, which is wrong. The USSR should have the largest army, They had almost 10000 more tanks then Germany, and the largest air force in the world.

I find that invading the Soviet Union was much to easy, and is now just taking city after city. Soviet conscripts should also have extremely low production rates, and a good unit flavor. Also USSR should be tolerant of war mongers because after World War 1 they were not looking for war.

Well, here is the problem that comes into play when you try to make this into a civ5 scenario with multiple playable civs. The AI is going to be playing as Germany for a lot of people.
When the AI is controlling Germany, it tends to lose a ton of units rather quickly. This is because it is getting bombed by Britain and at the same time is trying to invade France. The other thing is that Britain & France tend to ally with Sweden and/or Norway, which then causes the German AI to begin sending units to embark into the Baltic sea. This makes them lose even more units.

So I ended up giving Germany a very large army to account for this. It is really just frustrating to try to get the AI to do what I want it to do early in this scenario.

Giving the Soviets a really large army in this scenario was leading to the USSR pretty much rolling Germany shortly after it lost a significant number of units against the western allies, so that is why they might seem weaker than they should.

You make a good point about Stalin tolerating war mongering though, and I do have the ability to fine tune that to an even lower setting (it is already at a 2 or 3 I think). So I'll see about bolstering the Soviet Union's army in the next update I've been working on. Not sure about making conscripts even easier to produce. I think they're already basically dirt cheap, and it seems like the AI likes to spam them a bit as it is. I'll take a look at it in case I'm wrong though.

Thanks for the feedback. Very useful input.

dlmt3
Aug 01, 2011, 05:47 PM
Well, here is the problem that comes into play when you try to make this into a civ5 scenario with multiple playable civs. The AI is going to be playing as Germany for a lot of people.
When the AI is controlling Germany, it tends to lose a ton of units rather quickly. This is because it is getting bombed by Britain and at the same time is trying to invade France. The other thing is that Britain & France tend to ally with Sweden and/or Norway, which then causes the German AI to begin sending units to embark into the Baltic sea. This makes them lose even more units.

So I ended up giving Germany a very large army to account for this. It is really just frustrating to try to get the AI to do what I want it to do early in this scenario.

Giving the Soviets a really large army in this scenario was leading to the USSR pretty much rolling Germany shortly after it lost a significant number of units against the western allies, so that is why they might seem weaker than they should.

You make a good point about Stalin tolerating war mongering though, and I do have the ability to fine tune that to an even lower setting (it is already at a 2 or 3 I think). So I'll see about bolstering the Soviet Union's army in the next update I've been working on. Not sure about making conscripts even easier to produce. I think they're already basically dirt cheap, and it seems like the AI likes to spam them a bit as it is. I'll take a look at it in case I'm wrong though.

Thanks for the feedback. Very useful input.

Ok thanks, I understand what you mean though, the ai has no clue how to fight at sea or invade across the sea. Which is how I managed to invade England.

Now I am also having a problem that Italy and Japan refuse to sign Declarations of friendships with me, and after taking turkey and Egypt they both denounced me.

I was just wondering if you could give Italy Japan and Germany an unprecedented tolerance for warmongering.

And lastly North Africa extremely easy to take. Italy is expanding west while I took Egypt, and if Italy can take out those forces theres a slight issue. Maybe you could bolster French resistance in North Africa with a British force, just to harass Italy.

Thank you for reading.

rhettrongun
Aug 01, 2011, 11:07 PM
I have to agree with you on North Africa, and have gone ahead and fixed it. I had been making the situation even worse recently in the update I have been working on too, so good catch on that. I also added in Suez as a British holding next to Egypt and made it and Baghdad occupied. Replacing Jerusalem with Suez makes that into a usable canal route too.
Overall the North African theatre should be more of a stalemate that slightly favors the Allies now.

The war mongering hatred for the Axis leaders and Stalin are all lowered to a 1, although I think Mussolini was already at a 1 in version 7 of the scenario. If that's true I suppose there is simply a hard limit on how much war mongering an ai will take.

dlmt3
Aug 01, 2011, 11:32 PM
I have to agree with you on North Africa, and have gone ahead and fixed it. I had been making the situation even worse recently in the update I have been working on too, so good catch on that. I also added in Suez as a British holding next to Egypt and made it and Baghdad occupied. Replacing Jerusalem with Suez makes that into a usable canal route too.
Overall the North African theatre should be more of a stalemate that slightly favors the Allies now.

The war mongering hatred for the Axis leaders and Stalin are all lowered to a 1, although I think Mussolini was already at a 1 in version 7 of the scenario. If that's true I suppose there is simply a hard limit on how much war mongering an ai will take.

Then can you start off Italy Germany and Japan as friends from the start of the scenario? And make Germany in contact with Russia, as to make it even less likely that Russia will invade.

And Germany had a NAP with Russia so having them in contact would make sense.

dlmt3
Aug 02, 2011, 04:56 PM
I also have tank ideas if you're intersted...

Germany is missing the Tiger tank. Which was stronger then the panther. I figure you could replace mech infantry with it, and give it higher combat strength then the panther. With 2 or 3 movement. And being the Strongest tank on the market. With a very high price of course.

France should have the Char b1. It was a heavy tank produced before WW2. It should have higher combat strength then panzers, but less then panthers. With 2 oil needed for it. And 1-2 Movement.

Britain could have the Comet Tank. Which would be a late game heavy tank, that could match up with panthers and tigers.

Russia and USofA are pretty good on tanks, The Russian Kv-1 isn't neccessary as it wasnt much better then t-34s. US pretty much stalled at shermans.

Then one more German tank, Maus is a experimental super heavy tank. If you were to put that in it would have to be about twice as expensive as a tiger. With unprecedented Combat strength and health but only 1 movement. This would have to be buried behind everything pretty much.

Now of course these are just suggestions, Im not sure how far into tank development you want to go or if you want to keep it simple.

rhettrongun
Aug 02, 2011, 11:30 PM
I also have tank ideas if you're intersted...

Germany is missing the Tiger tank. Which was stronger then the panther. I figure you could replace mech infantry with it, and give it higher combat strength then the panther. With 2 or 3 movement. And being the Strongest tank on the market. With a very high price of course.

France should have the Char b1. It was a heavy tank produced before WW2. It should have higher combat strength then panzers, but less then panthers. With 2 oil needed for it. And 1-2 Movement.

Britain could have the Comet Tank. Which would be a late game heavy tank, that could match up with panthers and tigers.

Russia and USofA are pretty good on tanks, The Russian Kv-1 isn't neccessary as it wasnt much better then t-34s. US pretty much stalled at shermans.

Then one more German tank, Maus is a experimental super heavy tank. If you were to put that in it would have to be about twice as expensive as a tiger. With unprecedented Combat strength and health but only 1 movement. This would have to be buried behind everything pretty much.

Now of course these are just suggestions, Im not sure how far into tank development you want to go or if you want to keep it simple.

Thanks for the ideas :). I'll see about adding in more tanks in the next update after I've managed to upload the one I already have ready. It has a lot of new things added in as is, plus I need to take a short break from modding.
Simply figuring out how to upload the mod so that everything works properly is looking like it will be chore.

As for the diplomacy issues, every civ should already start out in contact with every other civ. Unfortunately Worldbuilder won't allow pre-setting DoF in place between civs. It seems like that would be an easy thing to have included, but it's just not there. It's probably possible to setup something that would control major diplomacy actions through LUA, but that's not something I know how to use very well at the moment.

I made a small modification to the map layout between Leningrad and Warsaw to more accurately account for the Polish invasion. It also should make conquering Leningrad tougher than before. Attached is a picture of what it looks like a fair ways into a game.

Koenvanderven
Aug 03, 2011, 07:45 AM
About the Tanks:
Germany: No Maus, only 2 were build so it isn't very realistic. If you want a sort of super heavy tank, i'd suggest the king tiger (more movement/bit more armour)
USA: Maybe the Pershing tank? (in stead of mech infantry)
USSR: the JS2 for later in the game. (or T34-85 but it looks the same so it isn't very cool ;), little more easy though)

Maybe it's too much tanks, but I think this is historically pretty accurate.. I'm not an expert though ;-)

Just like dlmt3 said, these are suggestions for if you want to more tanks..

Great mod :-)

dlmt3
Aug 03, 2011, 11:56 AM
About the Tanks:
Germany: No Maus, only 2 were build so it isn't very realistic. If you want a sort of super heavy tank, i'd suggest the king tiger (more movement/bit more armour)
USA: Maybe the Pershing tank? (in stead of mech infantry)
USSR: the JS2 for later in the game. (or T34-85 but it looks the same so it isn't very cool ;), little more easy though)

Maybe it's too much tanks, but I think this is historically pretty accurate.. I'm not an expert though ;-)

Just like dlmt3 said, these are suggestions for if you want to more tanks..

Great mod :-)


Well yeah the maus only had 2 built, but thats why its buried so far in the tech tree you couldnt get it for a while... and with a extremely high price it would be very hard to get.

Pershing could work, although the US primarily used Shermans.

The t34 was enough to match anything Germany through at it. IF he really wanted a second tank he could use the kv1 which was a soviet heavy tank.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 03:51 PM
oh, wow.. a lot has been added since the last time I came here. So I guess my post is already out of date before I make it...

I was going to say that I finally did get the worldbuilder to work... sometimes... and I had been fooling around with a few adjustments.

I changed the scenario in the following ways:

1. I set Russia at war with Germany and Italy at the start of the scenario. They are also at war with Finland and Poland (since there is only one city in Poland it is impossible for the Nazis and Soviets to split the country as they agreed on... but at least they both have a chance to take Warsaw).
2. To balance the fact that the Axis starts at war with Russia, and also to make the scenario more realistic since France was way way overpowered... I severely weakened France. I took away most of their units in Europe and also greatly reduced the defenses of the French cities on the European mainland. I also set Germany to war with Belgium and reduced their defenses, as well. I deleted most of the French naval vessels in the Mediterranean and Atlantic. This typically results in Germany conquering France or at least Paris within the first 1-3 turns of the scenario, which I feel is better.
3. In an attempt to get the USA in on the action, I start them out at war with all 3 Axis powers. I know they didn't technically enter the war until later, but they were already helping out at this point and would enter on the allies side just a very short while later.... sooner than the AI can get off it's ass and actually get to Japan or Europe to do anything anyway.

Those were the major changes. I did a few more tweaks here and there, like taking away the Arabs' destroyer.

Peramanent War/Peace:
this was the biggest thing bringing the scenario down IMO, and I see that it was already corrected. But in my own version of the scenario I did as follows:
permanent war:
I left permanent war in place for some countries that seemed mutually committed to each other's complete destruction. This was not as detrimental to the scenario since it made more sense historically, and also did not prevent you from winning a domination victory.
USA is at permanent war with Japan, Germany, and Italy.
France is at permanent war with Germany and Italy.
UK is at permanent war with Germany and Italy.
Russia is at permanent war with Germany and Italy.

I think that's it. The fact that I left permanent war in place with some countries usually preoccupies the big players enough that they don't start declaring war on their allies... most of the time. but once in a while you get a random declaration of war and I think that's more realistic especially in a scenario that is played for a full 150 turns.

Permanent peace... this is more damaging to the scenario, I think. But I still kept it in place for a few countries. Some countries have a tendency to declare war with others simply by virtue of the fact that they are right next to each other... but... in real life it is inconceivable that the two countries would ever *really* go to war. Canada and the USA, for example.
Germany has a permanent peace with Italy. With enemies surrounding both of them, and the observed tendency for them to start denouncing each other in the scenario, this seemed necessary.
USA has permanent peace I think with Canada and the UK.
UK has permanent peace with the USA, Australia... maybe India.
I think that's all. I might have put France at peace with the UK or the USA too, not sure.

Win conditions:
I added the victory condition of Diplomatic Victory. I thought that this made perfect sense in the context of a WW2 scenario (you build the United Nations and negotiate peace)... also it makes it possible to win the scenario even if you are playing as one of the nations that has permanent peace in place with another country (though that list is much smaller than it used to be).

I played another game with the Chinese since I had the most fun playing as them before. Events unfolded closer to history at first (Russia did not declare war on me for no reason). Since rhett had already weakened the Chinese position it was harder to repel the Japanese invasion but I actually still managed to keep them from taking any cities on the mainland except for Hong Kong. Control of Hong Kong passed back and forth until I finally gave up for about 10 turns, fortified my other cities, and then was able to refocus on HK and take it back.
The rest of the scenario unfolded somewhat predictably with a couple of exceptions. The USA conquered Mexico as it often does (maybe should put permanent peace in place there, too, though all in all a US-Mexican war in the 1940s is much more plausible than a US-Canadian war). After I made peace with Japan I started conquering Southern Asia including Thailand, northern India, and Persia. One surprise was that Spain became a very powerful and aggressive player in this scenario, taking most of Africa away from Britain, France, and Italy.

About 30 turns in an alliance of 10-15 nations declared war on Hitler, including me. The UK took over Norway and Belgium (both under Nazi control at the time). The USSR took Finland, Poland, Hungary and Romania.
At that point I declared war on Russia because I had no clear path to Germany otherwise. I quickly took Stalingrad, Minsk, and Moscow... then turned my army west, liberated Warsaw, and occupied Berlin and Hamburg.

At this point I am the most powerful nation in the world. I am aiming at winning a diplomatic victory since I have also liberated Seoul, Hungary, Romania, and Finland... and made quite a few allies with other city-states, so my vote count is getting pretty high.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 04:16 PM
I have only mongol DLC and i tried the scenario but i'm not able to load it. I never find the map, my MAP folder is empty. Could you give me any help ?

I do not have the Spain, Inca, Babylon, Polynesia DLC, either.

My solution to this: open up the map in WorldBuilder. Go to the scenario editor. There should be a list of civilizations.
Find the civs that you do not have the DLC for (Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Iraq, Australia)... and then just move them down the list making them the last civs on the list in the scenario.

You won't be able to play as these civs... but it will make it so that you can see and select any of the other civs. The scenario should be perfectly playable... what it will do is that upon starting the scenario for the first time, the computer will randomly select other civs to fill in the blanks.
The only problem with this really is that it can be confusing as you will have multiple leaders with the same name. For instance, in my last game Genghis Khan was the leader of both Spain and Brazil.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 07:54 PM
I made a small modification to the map layout between Leningrad and Warsaw to more accurately account for the Polish invasion. It also should make conquering Leningrad tougher than before. Attached is a picture of what it looks like a fair ways into a game.

Haven't tried the new map yet, but just glancing at the attached photo... I see that the USSR is still absolutely massive... but... is it my imagination or did the USA get even smaller? Maybe to compensate for the growth of Europe and Africa which are now pretty huge compared to their real world size.
I can see a downside to this as the USA will not be likely to develop into the superpower that it became in the closing years of the war and might not be a match for the USSR in the later stages of the scenario unless you somehow seriously tweaked their terrain/cities.

Since the USA is already such a non-entity in this scenario, I think due to the fact that they are separated from most of the action by two oceans, nothing should be done to make them even weaker. They played an absolutely pivotal role in real history but every time I've played through the scenario with the US as an AI... they do nothing except once in a while annex Mexico. Even in my modified scenario where they start at war with all the Axis powers.. and they have territory close to Japan since the Philippines are their puppet... still... they never interact with the European, Asian, or African civs. Maybe they need a stronger navy.

dlmt3
Aug 03, 2011, 08:07 PM
Haven't tried the new map yet, but just glancing at the attached photo... I see that the USSR is still absolutely massive... but... is it my imagination or did the USA get even smaller? Maybe to compensate for the growth of Europe and Africa which are now pretty huge compared to their real world size.
I can see a downside to this as the USA will not be likely to develop into the superpower that it became in the closing years of the war and might not be a match for the USSR in the later stages of the scenario unless you somehow seriously teaked their terrain/cities.

On the latest version. (the one before the ones hes trying to upload today) The U.S. has the largest army in the world. And as Germany i have spread my reach far and have a massive army, but the U.S. is ahead with 25% more military power then i have.
And Britain and France aren't large at all. None of Europe is. And Russia is that large in the real world...

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 08:38 PM
On the latest version. (the one before the ones hes trying to upload today) The U.S. has the largest army in the world. And as Germany i have spread my reach far and have a massive army, but the U.S. is ahead with 25% more military power then i have.
And Britain and France aren't large at all. None of Europe is. And Russia is that large in the real world...

In the games I have played the USA often builds up a huge military.

But do they ever use it? Almost never. Like I said, once in a while they conquer Mexico... but I have never once seen them ever conquer a single city that is not in North America.

Have you? I guess maybe the real solution is to fix the AI... as noted previously in this thread... the Civ V AI is terrible at handling its navy or conquering territory across oceans.
The British seem capable of taking on mainland Europe (I've personally witnessed them take over Norway and parts of Europe from the Nazis), and AI Japan has no trouble taking large chunks of mainland Asia from AI China.
Maybe that's because the amount of water between Japan and China is not very much. Likewise between England and France or Scandinavia. I don't know. Or maybe it's because they start with larger navies. The USA is able to build up a massive army (mostly because they never fight anybody) but the navy they start with is not impressive.

No easy solution presents itself. I do think the main issue is with the AI, and as rhett lamented earlier... it's difficult to get the AI to play as you want it to. He had to make the German military larger to compensate for the AI's stupidity.

****


As to Russia being that large in the real world... well... yes and no...

first of all, yes Russia is the largest country in the world, but they appear even larger on maps including this one because of the fact that when you project a 3D surface on to a 2D surface the areas at the top and bottom of the map become larger. Russia, being at the top of the map, appears much larger than it actually is. On Civ maps, it doesn't just appear larger. It IS larger. It has more usable tiles. That's not really fair. Some scenarios, like Rhye's RFC scenario in Civ IV, compensates for this by making most of Russia unusable terrain- marshes or tundra. But in Civ V even tundra is pretty useful terrain. I guess you could make much of it ice.
Secondly, there is more to a map than just matching up to geography. This scenario is a perfect example as you can see... when the scenario creator decided to redo the whole map to make Europe larger. Europe on this map is much, much bigger than it is in reality. That's because it improves gameplay. Populations in Europe are very condensed and the cities there due to the industrial revolution were far more productive than most cities elsewhere in the world in the 1940s. If the map was perfectly proportioned to real-world geography it would be hard to give the European cities a realistic level of power/productivity versus cities elsewhere.
Also, just the fact that you can't cram that many cities into a small area means that there are far fewer cities in the European countries. In the original map, Germany had only two actual German cities: Hamburg and Berlin. The USSR has dozens of cities. But in real life in 1940 there were more notable cities in Germany than there were in Russia.
In Russia, almost all of the population and industry was concentrated west of the caucuses. The huge vast wilderness to the east was sparsely populated and almost entirely agrarian. But... in Civ V, every city can potentially become highly productive and populous.
You can balance this a little bit by making the European and American cities more developed, and putting improvements on the terrain around those cities (which rhett already did). It's just difficult to balance it properly and given enough time.. the civ with the most cities is most likely going to have the largest population, highest production, etc.
To balance this I would propose either making the territory of the USSR smaller.... or spreading out their cities more. If the US and the USSR had the same number of cities then the extra territory the USSR had wouldn't matter as much.

dlmt3
Aug 03, 2011, 09:02 PM
In the games I have played the USA often builds up a huge military.

But do they ever use it? Almost never. Like I said, once in a while they conquer Mexico... but I have never once seen them ever conquer a single city that is not in North America.

Have you? I guess maybe the real solution is to fix the AI... as noted previously in this thread... the Civ V AI is terrible at handling its navy or conquering territory across oceans.
The British seem capable of taking on mainland Europe (I've personally witnessed them take over Norway and parts of Europe from the Nazis), and AI Japan has no trouble taking large chunks of mainland Asia from AI China.
Maybe that's because the amount of water between Japan and China is not very much. Likewise between England and France or Scandinavia. I don't know. Or maybe it's because they start with larger navies. The USA is able to build up a massive army (mostly because they never fight anybody) but the navy they start with is not impressive.

No easy solution presents itself. I do think the main issue is with the AI, and as rhett lamented earlier... it's difficult to get the AI to play as you want it to. He had to make the German military larger to compensate for the AI's stupidity.

Why would he want the USA to start a war with anyone? Before and during World War 2 The U.S. Was isolationist. So he actually made it perfect by them not invading anybody.

rhettrongun
Aug 03, 2011, 09:55 PM
As to Russia being that large in the real world... well... yes and no...

first of all, yes Russia is the largest country in the world, but they appear even larger on maps including this one because of the fact that when you project a 3D surface on to a 2D surface the areas at the top and bottom of the map become larger. Russia, being at the top of the map, appears much larger than it actually is. On Civ maps, it doesn't just appear larger. It IS larger. It has more usable tiles. That's not really fair. Some scenarios, like Rhye's RFC scenario in Civ IV, compensates for this by making most of Russia unusable terrain- marshes or tundra. But in Civ V even tundra is pretty useful terrain. I guess you could make much of it ice.
Secondly, there is more to a map than just matching up to geography. This scenario is a perfect example as you can see... when the scenario creator decided to redo the whole map to make Europe larger. Europe on this map is much, much bigger than it is in reality. That's because it improves gameplay. Populations in Europe are very condensed and the cities there due to the industrial revolution were far more productive than most cities elsewhere in the world in the 1940s. If the map was perfectly proportioned to real-world geography it would be hard to give the European cities a realistic level of power/productivity versus cities elsewhere.
Also, just the fact that you can't cram that many cities into a small area means that there are far fewer cities in the European countries. In the original map, Germany had only two actual German cities: Hamburg and Berlin. The USSR has dozens of cities. But in real life in 1940 there were more notable cities in Germany than there were in Russia.
In Russia, almost all of the population and industry was concentrated west of the caucuses. The huge vast wilderness to the east was sparsely populated and almost entirely agrarian. But... in Civ V, every city can potentially become highly productive and populous.
You can balance this a little bit by making the European and American cities more developed, and putting improvements on the terrain around those cities (which rhett already did). It's just difficult to balance it properly and given enough time.. the civ with the most cities is most likely going to have the largest population, highest production, etc.
To balance this I would propose either making the territory of the USSR smaller.... or spreading out their cities more. If the US and the USSR had the same number of cities then the extra territory the USSR had wouldn't matter as much.

I actually have addressed this in my latest update. I changed about 75% of the grassland terrain in what is supposed to be Siberia into tundra terrain. I also lowered the latitude for where snow terrain shows up in Siberia. This has the desired effect from what I've seen in my tests, as the USSR no longer gets huge populations anywhere in Siberia.

About the update, I plan to set aside some time this weekend to finally get it posted. It will definitely have to be broken into about 3 parts now. I've been dreading and putting it off, as I'm pretty certain it will be frustrating. No point in just sitting on it though.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 10:00 PM
Why would he want the USA to start a war with anyone? Before and during World War 2 The U.S. Was isolationist. So he actually made it perfect by them not invading anybody.

They were isolationists before WW2? I don't think so.
Before the Spanish-American War, or maybe even WW1, you could make this argument.
But this isn't even before WW2. It's during WW2. By 1939, the USA was already deeply involved in the war. By 1941, they were in open war against all of the Axis powers. Without them, D-Day would have had no hope of being successful. The allies would not have successfully retaken France or invaded Italy. If Russia had not fallen, they would have likely declared armistice since Hitler's army would not have been divided. and Japan would have retained control over all of East Asia. With the exception of the British retaking Burma, the Americans took them on the Japanese in the Pacific almost single-handedly.

If they start at peace with everyone in this scenario.. is the above likely to play out? ha. no. Actually I've found that it's much more likely that they will become allies with Germany and Japan and invade Mexico.

So... far from being perfect... having the US start out uninvolved in the war leads to completely unrealistic games that will never resemble the actual events of WW2.
I've experimented and played through this scenario many times with many different civs. I find it's much better to start the USSR and USA at war and make France much weaker.. at least if you care at all about events playing out at least *somewhat* similar to history.
Though no matter what, unless you play as the Americans it is unlikely in this scenario that they will ever do anything. The AI is just not proactive enough.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 10:03 PM
I actually have addressed this in my latest update. I changed about 75% of the grassland terrain in what is supposed to be Siberia into tundra terrain. I also lowered the latitude for where snow terrain shows up in Siberia. This has the desired effect from what I've seen in my tests, as the USSR no longer gets huge populations anywhere in Siberia.

About the update, I plan to set aside some time this weekend to finally get it posted. It will definitely have to be broken into about 3 parts now. I've been dreading and putting it off, as I'm pretty certain it will be frustrating. No point in just sitting on it though.

I'll have to try it out then.

and... totally relate about the anxiety around modding...

I have a world map from Civ IV that I have been working on for 4 years and have yet to finish. It takes a lot of patience and perserverance. I know that it helps to have feedback from people who enjoyed your work... and hope you realize that's why I'm here posting so many comments. If I didn't like the scenario I wouldn't be playing it so much. At this point I think I've started at least 10 different games using some version of this scenario and finished (or played to a point where I could not play any longer or victory was a foregone conclusion) at least 4 or 5 times.

rhettrongun
Aug 03, 2011, 10:10 PM
They were isolationists before WW2? I don't think so.
Before the Spanish-American War, or maybe even WW1, you could make this argument.
But this isn't even before WW2. It's during WW2. By 1939, the USA was already deeply involved in the war. By 1941, they were in open war against all of the Axis powers. Without them, D-Day would have had no hope of being successful. The allies would not have successfully retaken France or invaded Italy. If Russia had not fallen, they would have likely declared armistice since Hitler's army would not have been divided. and Japan would have retained control over all of East Asia. With the exception of the British retaking Burma, the Americans took them on the Japanese in the Pacific almost single-handedly.

If they start at peace with everyone in this scenario.. is the above likely to play out? ha. no. Actually I've found that it's much more likely that they will become allies with Germany and Japan and invade Mexico.

So... far from being perfect... having the US start out uninvolved in the war leads to completely unrealistic games that will never resemble the actual events of WW2.
I've experimented and played through this scenario many times with many different civs. I find it's much better to start the USSR and USA at war and make France much weaker.. at least if you care at all about events playing out at least *somewhat* similar to history.
Though no matter what, unless you play as the Americans it is unlikely in this scenario that they will ever do anything. The AI is just not proactive enough.

On the isolationists, that is debatable. I don't really want to get deep into it, as I'm a little foggy on the facts and don't feel like researching them now. But, I would recommend checking out some of the old polls about public opinion for entering the war before Pearl Harbor. They were pretty weak. Even after Pearl the American people were still generally opposed to warring in Europe. It was Hitler that brought the USA into the war by declaring war. This was 1 of his top blunders of the war too, as there is no telling on how long the US would have waited otherwise.

On the newer map I have seen the US declare war on Japan occasionally. They even manage to capture an island now and then too. I haven't played long enough after this happened to see what else they can do though.

dlmt3
Aug 03, 2011, 10:14 PM
They were isolationists before WW2? I don't think so.
Before the Spanish-American War, or maybe even WW1, you could make this argument.
But this isn't even before WW2. It's during WW2. By 1939, the USA was already deeply involved in the war. By 1941, they were in open war against all of the Axis powers. Without them, D-Day would have had no hope of being successful. The allies would not have successfully retaken France or invaded Italy. If Russia had not fallen, they would have likely declared armistice since Hitler's army would not have been divided. and Japan would have retained control over all of East Asia. With the exception of the British retaking Burma, the Americans took them on the Japanese in the Pacific almost single-handedly.

If they start at peace with everyone in this scenario.. is the above likely to play out? ha. no. Actually I've found that it's much more likely that they will become allies with Germany and Japan and invade Mexico.

So... far from being perfect... having the US start out uninvolved in the war leads to completely unrealistic games that will never resemble the actual events of WW2.
I've experimented and played through this scenario many times with many different civs. I find it's much better to start the USSR and USA at war and make France much weaker.. at least if you care at all about events playing out at least *somewhat* similar to history.
Though no matter what, unless you play as the Americans it is unlikely in this scenario that they will ever do anything. The AI is just not proactive enough.

Yeah good idea! Start the USSR and USA at war! Because when Japan attacked america they ended up declaring war on the USSR too! God your dumb arent you?

And btw the U.S. public greatly opposed war, of course FDR wanted to enter on Englands side but never was able too because the public would hate it. And since you cant gift units like with the lend lease act, the only way to time the U.S. entrance into the war, is to script Japan declaring war on the U.S. Then Germany and Italy doing the same.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 10:17 PM
Yeah good idea! Start the USSR and USA at war! Because when Japan attacked america they ended up declaring war on the USSR too! God your dumb arent you?

And btw the U.S. public greatly opposed war, of course FDR wanted to enter on Englands side but never was able too because the public would hate it. And since you cant gift units like with the lend lease act, the only way to time the U.S. entrance into the war, is to script Japan declaring war on the U.S. Then Germany and Italy doing the same.

No I'm not dumb, but apparently you are.

I meant start the USSR at war with Germany and Italy, and start the USA at war with Japan, Germany, and Italy.

F you very much, dumbass.

dlmt3
Aug 03, 2011, 10:20 PM
No I'm not dumb, but apparently you are.

I meant start the USSR at war with Germany and Italy, and start the USA at war with Japan, Germany, and Italy.

F you very much, dumbass.

You said start the USSR and USA at war. But whatever.

And like i said, the only way to make it historically accurate is to have scripted events at accurate times.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 10:22 PM
You said start the USSR and USA at war. But whatever.

And like i said, the only way to make it historically accurate is to have scripted events at accurate times.

Not with each other. Don't try to school me on English or history, I know both backward and forward.

Scripted events would be more accurate, yes, but if you read the whole thread rhett already said he wasn't sure how to make scripted events. I don't either. Using the worldbuilder this was the best solution I could come up with to make it more realistic.

dlmt3
Aug 03, 2011, 10:28 PM
Not with each other. Don't try to school me on English or history, I know both backward and forward.

Scripted events would be more accurate, yes, but if you read the whole thread rhett already said he wasn't sure how to make scripted events. I don't either. Using the worldbuilder this was the best solution I could come up with to make it more realistic.

Then it's not realistic at all, if the US is at war from the start they never build up a large army, and most likely lose most of it at sea. With Japans warmongering they will declare war on the U.S. It has happened each time ive played this, starting the U.S. at war with Germany Italy and Japan will either

A. Result in the U.S. France and England raping Germany within the first 15 turns.

B. Result in the U.S. losing every one of thier units at sea in a attempt to invade only to encounter U-Boats.

And since most of japans army is in China the U.S. will lose a lot of thier army at sea against japan.

Only real way to do it is to either figure out how to script events, or let things play out. You for some reason either want to start the U.S. at war with the world, or make the U.S. attack the world, both of those are unrealistic.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 10:41 PM
On the isolationists, that is debatable. I don't really want to get deep into it, as I'm a little foggy on the facts and don't feel like researching them now. But, I would recommend checking out some of the old polls about public opinion for entering the war before Pearl Harbor. They were pretty weak. Even after Pearl the American people were still generally opposed to warring in Europe. It was Hitler that brought the USA into the war by declaring war. This was 1 of his top blunders of the war too, as there is no telling on how long the US would have waited otherwise.

On the newer map I have seen the US declare war on Japan occasionally. They even manage to capture an island now and then too. I haven't played long enough after this happened to see what else they can do though.

I've never seen the US take a single island from Japan, even in my games where I have started them at war with each other. Not saying it's impossible... just doesn't happen very often.

As for Americans being isolationist... even if many Americans wanted to stay out of the war in Europe, the fact remains that the US government was actively supporting the allies. Germany had been sinking US supply ships and the Americans had been supplying France, the UK and China with weapons, munitions, food... even pilots. Though war had not officially been declared... we were clearly siding with the Allies even prior to 1940.
Without scripted events in the scenario, Japan will almost certainly not declare war on the USA, and it remains extremely unlikely that the US will enter the war at all. I already made an argument before about the canonical Ally and Axis powers of WW2: that being USA/UK/USSR vs. Germany/Italy/Japan.
If you want to play an alternate war where it's SuperFrance/UK vs. Germany/Italy... with an unrelated one-sided war taking place between Japan and China... Russia as a wildcard and the USA as an unimportant bystander... that's fine. If you want to play a game with the canonical Allies vs. the Axis powers... then you have to set it up as I have. Either that or put in scripted events.

I'm not saying my way is necessarily better... but I like it better. I was putting the suggestion out there for others who might want to try fooling around with WorldBuilder and modding the scenario in a similar way. IMO it makes it feel more historically accurate and improves balance.

dlmt3
Aug 03, 2011, 10:46 PM
I've never seen the US take a single island from Japan, even in my games where I have started them at war with each other. Not saying it's impossible... just doesn't happen very often.

As for Americans being isolationist... even if many Americans wanted to stay out of the war in Europe, the fact remains that the US government was actively supporting the allies. Germany had been sinking US supply ships and the Americans had been supplying France, the UK and China with weapons, munitions, food... even pilots. Though war had not officially been declared... we were clearly siding with the Allies even prior to 1940.
Without scripted events in the scenario, Japan will almost certainly not declare war on the USA, and it remains extremely unlikely that the US will enter the war at all. I already made an argument before about the canonical Ally and Axis powers of WW2: that being USA/UK/USSR vs. Germany/Italy/Japan.
If you want to play an alternate war where it's SuperFrance/UK vs. Germany/Italy... with an unrelated one-sided war taking place between Japan and China... Russia as a wildcard and the USA as an unimportant bystander... that's fine. If you want to play a game with the canonical Allies vs. the Axis powers... then you have to set it up as I have. Either that or put in scripted events.

I'm not saying my way is necessarily better... but I like it better. I was putting the suggestion out there for others who might want to try fooling around with WorldBuilder and modding the scenario in a similar way. IMO it makes it feel more historically accurate and improves balance.

Every game ive played japan attacked the US so yeah.

But no. Hitler tryed desperately to keep the US out of the war, and would never touch a supply ship of theirs. While yes the US did supply Britain and later Russia with weaponry, they did it in as much secrecy as possible, even when Hitler sent subs down near canada he made sure to leave the US alone knowing that it would spell disaster if they entered. Until Japan screwed up and Hitler wanted to defend his ally.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 10:56 PM
Then it's not realistic at all, if the US is at war from the start they never build up a large army, and most likely lose most of it at sea. With Japans warmongering they will declare war on the U.S. It has happened each time ive played this, starting the U.S. at war with Germany Italy and Japan will either

A. Result in the U.S. France and England raping Germany within the first 15 turns.

B. Result in the U.S. losing every one of thier units at sea in a attempt to invade only to encounter U-Boats.

And since most of japans army is in China the U.S. will lose a lot of thier army at sea against japan.

Only real way to do it is to either figure out how to script events, or let things play out. You for some reason either want to start the U.S. at war with the world, or make the U.S. attack the world, both of those are unrealistic.

How many times have you played this scenario? I've done it at least 10 or more times. NEVER has the US EVER taken anything from Japan or Germany. I'm not saying it can't happen.. but... I guarantee you that what you described happening in the first 15 turns will not happen.

Read my more detailed accounts of how my scenario has played out if you want to go back and look for them. If you make the alterations that I discussed Aug 4 6:51 am... then the scenario typically plays out like this, in this order:
1. Germany takes Warsaw, Belgium and France almost immediately.
2. Japan takes Hong Kong and Manchuria almost immediately.
3. Russia takes Finland.
4. Italy takes Tunisia.
5. Japan pushes farther into China, usually stopping after taking Beijing or Shanghai. Sometimes they also take over Singapore, the Philippines, and/or IndoChina.
6. After several turns of attrition, the Russians are able to turn back the Germans and take Poland, Romania, and/or Hungary. England frequently stages an amphibious invasion of either northern France or Belgium. Sometimes they manage to hold on to this territory, sometimes not.
7. With attrition claiming most of their units, Europe ends up in a stalemate with the Germans controlling Germany, Italy controlling Italy, and the UK or Spain controlling the rest of Western Europe. North Africa also stalemates the same way.

Pretty accurate, right? The only big difference is that the USA almost never gets involved, even though I have them at war from turn 1 with the Axis powers.

I've actually playtested this. I'm not merely speculating. This is how it plays out 80% of the time.

****

on the other hand... if you play this scenario as it was originally made, the following often happens:
1. The USA becomes allies with Germany or Italy or Japan.
2. The USSR declares war on China or India or some other country it has no reason to declare war on.
3. Germany is never able to fully defeat France, or if it does, it takes them 7-10 turns to finish them off. About 70% of the time Germany defeats France, but it takes them much longer to do it than it should, and they come out of the fight severely weakened. 30% of the time France actually wins, which should never happen.
4. Italy never really does anything, as the French navy in the Mediterranean is too powerful.

So... I dunno... whatever... if that sounds right to you then by all means, play and enjoy. Not trying to piss anyone off.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 03, 2011, 11:02 PM
http://www.usmm.org/ww2.html

http://www.usmm.org/sunk39-41.html#anchor325668

look at the 2nd link especially. Note that the US was not officially at war until December 1941.

ipso
Aug 04, 2011, 05:44 AM
Hello everybody
rhettrongun, I really like your mod. I've tested a few other WWII mods and they weren't that good. For example, I like the new units, it reminds me of the road to war mod in civ 4. Right now, I've only tested the French scenario (the Jap one keeps crashing) but I like it.

I would like to share ideas with you so that you could improve it

Vienna is part of the Axis since the Anschluss (1938)
Maybe you should weaken Spain, until 1939 it's civil war there, CHAOS, and it was a poor country until it joined the european union
The French had better tanks than the Germans, such as the Somua s-35 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOMUA_S35) and the B1 bis. There were no "panzers" until the invasion of the soviet union. The German tanks in 1940 had no armor but were really fast (blitzkrieg) and had a radio. They were also organized in divisions. On the contrary, the French tanks were rather slow and did not have a radio. They were weak against aircrafts, which is one of the reason why France lost. Later, the Germans were happy to use them as well as the French trucks (Renault, Somua,...). Therefore, what you could do is create a strong but very slow tank for the French. You could add a malus against aircrafts.
Also, I think the extensive use of cavalry is a little exaggerated...
Concerning the French colonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:French_Empire_1919-1939.png), Algiers was a part of France, a "departement", like an American State, which explains why the French were sad when they lost Algery. So maybe Algiers shouldn't be a puppet state. Moreover, the French colonial system's aim was to eventually reassemble the colonies with France, whereas the British only wanted to improve their economy. Therefore, you could put more non puppet states for France, but make them poorer.
Concerning the ruler of the country: until the defeat, it was Paul Reynaud, but it is not very important. Next was Petain who collaborated with Germany. maybe you could manage to do like in road to war, and change the side of France. But France did resist with De Gaulle, which was only president after the war. He ruled Free France from Algiers after the Torch Operation.


And I've got a few other ideas, which you could add to your mod:

You could add French planes, eventhough they weren't numerous :D
You could add the French elite soldiers: Chasseurs alpins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chasseurs_Alpins)
You could add French jets, the first one used by the army being the Dassault Ouragan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Ouragan) (1952)
You gould add the British Tommies (machine gunners), who look like the machine gunners in civ4
I don't have any idea if it's possible or not, but you could add a script for the german atomic bomb: it needed a ressource in a factory in Norway, but the Allies destroyed the factory and so Hitler did not have the atomic bomb first. let us say then that the Germans automatically start the manhattan project in Norway and that the British try to capture the city at some point of the game


Well, that's it! Again, thank you!

Koenvanderven
Aug 04, 2011, 07:03 AM
Is it possible to disable the Settler? It's a bit historically incorrect that York is in the Sahara, and the weird polynesian towns on Antarctica ;)

rhettrongun
Aug 04, 2011, 09:57 AM
Hello everybody
rhettrongun, I really like your mod. I've tested a few other WWII mods and they weren't that good. For example, I like the new units, it reminds me of the road to war mod in civ 4. Right now, I've only tested the French scenario (the Jap one keeps crashing) but I like it.

I would like to share ideas with you so that you could improve it

Vienna is part of the Axis since the Anschluss (1938)
Maybe you should weaken Spain, until 1939 it's civil war there, CHAOS, and it was a poor country until it joined the european union
The French had better tanks than the Germans, such as the Somua s-35 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOMUA_S35) and the B1 bis. There were no "panzers" until the invasion of the soviet union. The German tanks in 1940 had no armor but were really fast (blitzkrieg) and had a radio. They were also organized in divisions. On the contrary, the French tanks were rather slow and did not have a radio. They were weak against aircrafts, which is one of the reason why France lost. Later, the Germans were happy to use them as well as the French trucks (Renault, Somua,...). Therefore, what you could do is create a strong but very slow tank for the French. You could add a malus against aircrafts.
Also, I think the extensive use of cavalry is a little exaggerated...
Concerning the French colonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:French_Empire_1919-1939.png), Algiers was a part of France, a "departement", like an American State, which explains why the French were sad when they lost Algery. So maybe Algiers shouldn't be a puppet state. Moreover, the French colonial system's aim was to eventually reassemble the colonies with France, whereas the British only wanted to improve their economy. Therefore, you could put more non puppet states for France, but make them poorer.
Concerning the ruler of the country: until the defeat, it was Paul Reynaud, but it is not very important. Next was Petain who collaborated with Germany. maybe you could manage to do like in road to war, and change the side of France. But France did resist with De Gaulle, which was only president after the war. He ruled Free France from Algiers after the Torch Operation.


:scan:Vienna and a lot of the Japanese holdings are all set as independent at the start for two main reasons. I wanted liberating them to be an option for an allied player. I added diplomatic victory as a winning condition recently, so this should play out well. The other is that they build up war mongering hatred for the axis civs conquering the cities.

I think Spain is fairly weak if you look at their starting tech level and army. Although I think I've changed some things since version 7 that you probably are not aware of on that. They should be about on par with Australia or Canada in the current build. The one thing I'll look into lowering is their gold income though.

On the tanks, I have heard of/read about this recently actually. I thought about adjusting them, but ended up deciding not to.
I figure the fact that the Germans employed superior tactics that made their tanks more effective than other nations should play into the tank's combat ability in game. Kinda similar to their U-boats, which were not really anything special compared to other nations submarines. The tactics they used made them more effective though, so I made U-boats a superior submarine in the scenario.
That is really the minor reason on this issue though. Mainly it is about maintaining balance for the AI. Since this is a multi-playable civ scenario I have to account for the AI trying to invade Europe with the Germans also. It already has a hard enough time conquering historical portions of Europe as it is, and my thought is that giving the French better tanks than the Germans would throw a wrench into that.

I'll go ahead and use your suggestion on modifying the French Empire, as you make a good point and it's an easy adjustment to make. The French Leader switching or having them break into Vichy and Free factions would be a very nice thing to add. Unfortunately if that is even possible to do in Civ 5, it is beyond me right now.

And I've got a few other ideas, which you could add to your mod:

You could add French planes, eventhough they weren't numerous :D
You could add the French elite soldiers: Chasseurs alpins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chasseurs_Alpins)
You could add French jets, the first one used by the army being the Dassault Ouragan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Ouragan) (1952)
You gould add the British Tommies (machine gunners), who look like the machine gunners in civ4
I don't have any idea if it's possible or not, but you could add a script for the german atomic bomb: it needed a ressource in a factory in Norway, but the Allies destroyed the factory and so Hitler did not have the atomic bomb first. let us say then that the Germans automatically start the manhattan project in Norway and that the British try to capture the city at some point of the game


Well, that's it! Again, thank you!

I have given all the major WWII civs, save China, unique airplanes in the latest update. I'll keep the other suggestions in mind for future update. The last one about the atomic bomb is another that would require special scripting that I don't know how to do yet. Again, it sounds great though.

Thanks for all the suggestions :)

Is it possible to disable the Settler? It's a bit historically incorrect that York is in the Sahara, and the weird polynesian towns on Antarctica

Yes, it annoyed me as well. So, I have already done this in the new update that I'm planning to upload this weekend. The settler requires particle physics or something crazy to use now.

rhettrongun
Aug 04, 2011, 10:03 AM
on the other hand... if you play this scenario as it was originally made, the following often happens:
1. The USA becomes allies with Germany or Italy or Japan.
2. The USSR declares war on China or India or some other country it has no reason to declare war on.
3. Germany is never able to fully defeat France, or if it does, it takes them 7-10 turns to finish them off. About 70% of the time Germany defeats France, but it takes them much longer to do it than it should, and they come out of the fight severely weakened. 30% of the time France actually wins, which should never happen.
4. Italy never really does anything, as the French navy in the Mediterranean is too powerful.

I think you are playing an old version of the scenario at this point. I even uploaded my last update with 4 different versions of the map to appeal to those like yourself who prefer to play without permanent conditions.
Regardless, the point is I have ironed out a lot of these issues you're bringing up. I don't see the reasoning behind complaining about an old version of the scenario.

dlmt3
Aug 04, 2011, 12:10 PM
Would you per chance be getting rid of non world war 2 units? Right now all my AT guns are attack helis now...

rhettrongun
Aug 04, 2011, 12:47 PM
Yeah, those were definitely out of place. They are replaced with tank destroyers. Looks the same as anti-tank gunner units, but should be a nice improvement.

ipso
Aug 04, 2011, 01:38 PM
Yes you're right for the French/German tanks issue. Besides, I haven't had any problems wiping out the German Forces (in Prince difficulty though). Perhaps it's hard to play with Germany?
Again, regarding the colonies, it's only a detail but Algiers is more populated than Tunis. And the cities-states in the center of Africa (Bamako, etc.) all were French. And Syria, Lybia were also part of the French Empire.
Also, it might be good to create an alliance for the allies. While I was conquering Germany, I was denounced by Churchilll, and later by US (It's only a detail though).
The current version is 8 right ?

rhettrongun
Aug 04, 2011, 02:26 PM
Yes you're right for the French/German tanks issue. Besides, I haven't had any problems wiping out the German Forces (in Prince difficulty though). Perhaps it's hard to play with Germany?
Again, regarding the colonies, it's only a detail but Algiers is more populated than Tunis. And the cities-states in the center of Africa (Bamako, etc.) all were French.
Also, it might be good to create an alliance for the allies. While I was conquering Germany, I was denounced by Churchilll, and later by US.
(It's only a detail)
The current version is 8 right ?

Correct on the current version.
I think what you're finding here is simply that the AI is bad at combat compared to a decent human player. Playing as Germany is easier than the French in version 7/8, but the gap between them in Europe should widen a bit in the next.
I'll plan on fixing the populations with Algiers and Tunis then, as that is again something easy to correct.
I think the city-state you're referring to starts out allied with France. From what I had thought they were not as much typical colonies akin to places like Libreville and the others. I think the individual cities are fairly poor in terms of luxury/strategic resources and the lack direct sea access too, so they would probably make for a better city-state ally than another puppet piece. I'll make sure that France at least has a higher influence with them though, as I think it was only a 90 or there abouts.

There isn't really an "alliance" option when setting relations in worldbuilder. The best I can do is set permanent open borders, a defensive pact in place, and also permanent peace between them. I had the same trouble with Germany and USSR. There is no non-aggression pact option to set in place, and there wasn't really anything I could even substitute in that case.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 04, 2011, 04:15 PM
Maybe you should weaken Spain, until 1939 it's civil war there, CHAOS, and it was a poor country until it joined the european union

agreed. and they are still a poor country, even as part of the EU. I have not played as Spain myself (don't have the DLC), but in the last game I played the AI Spain managed to conquer most of Africa and Western Europe. This is incredible since the AI often manages to accomplish nothing at all, so I have a feeling they are way overpowered.

The French had better tanks than the Germans, such as the Somua s-35

but did they use them? Fall Rot captured Paris in less than 10 days. I haven't played the new version of the scenario yet so I don't know how powerful France is in this one, but in the older version they were way way way too powerful. Playing as them I managed to destroy Italy and Germany virtually single-handedly. I captured Rome in 4 turns.

Again, I don't know what the new version of the scenario is like, I just don't see the point in making France stronger (at least in mainland Europe) since they barely participated in the war.

Ghandi Khan
Aug 04, 2011, 04:18 PM
I think you are playing an old version of the scenario at this point. I even uploaded my last update with 4 different versions of the map to appeal to those like yourself who prefer to play without permanent conditions.
Regardless, the point is I have ironed out a lot of these issues you're bringing up. I don't see the reasoning behind complaining about an old version of the scenario.

Yes, I am. Sorry I am not complaining. I tried to make that clear. Just sharing my own experiences with the games that I have played on the off chance that they are helpful or entertaining.

dlmt3
Aug 04, 2011, 04:41 PM
Ghandi he never said he was making France stronger...Just increasing city state influence.

But i can't wait for the new version! What difficulty level do you recommend rhettron?

Ghandi Khan
Aug 04, 2011, 04:46 PM
Ghandi he never said he was making France stronger...Just increasing city state influence.

But i can't wait for the new version! What difficulty level do you recommend rhettron?

I was responding to someone's suggestion that France should have stronger tanks, elite infantry, an airforce, et cetera. Not the thing about the city state influence.

Difficulty level just changes your own production times, happiness handicaps, etc. Play at the level you are comfortable playing at.

dlmt3
Aug 04, 2011, 04:52 PM
I was responding to someone's suggestion that France should have stronger tanks, elite infantry, an airforce, et cetera. Not the thing about the city state influence.

Difficulty level just changes your own production times, happiness handicaps, etc. Play at the level you are comfortable playing at.

Ok i misread my bad.

I know what difficulty level is for, it's just with this scenario with this many pre placed units I dont know what difficulty i should use. Ive won a Pangaea deity with 5 AIs as Russia. But im not sure how well Deity will go here...

ipso
Aug 04, 2011, 05:03 PM
I wasn't suggesting that France should be stronger than Germany. I'm just trying to make the thing more historically accurate and to share ideas.
but I agree, the French generals didn't make a good use of their tanks
and for the chasseurs alpins, it's the same idea as with the tommies, or the kamikazes, the aim is to add more specific units to each nation, which i find myself pretty cool. it's the same for the french aircraft.
the french did not lose as quick as the Polish for instance. they weren't outnumbered at all. They had weak aircrafts, really stupid generals, no radio in their tanks, so they were flanked by the German army, which was very good. And all of the German generals were geniuses (ex: Guderian who elaborated blitzkrieg). Almost every time they lost it was the fault of hitler's stubbornness (cf. when the Russian defeated Von Paulus, or when the Allies wiped out the remaining German forces in Africa)

dlmt3
Aug 04, 2011, 05:19 PM
I wasn't suggesting that France should be stronger than Germany. I'm just trying to make the thing more historically accurate and to share ideas.
but I agree, the French generals didn't make a good use of their tanks
and for the chasseurs alpins, it's the same idea as with the tommies, or the kamikazes, the aim is to add more specific units to each nation, which i find myself pretty cool. it's the same for the french aircraft.
the french did not lose as quick as the Polish for instance. they weren't outnumbered at all. They had weak aircrafts, really stupid generals, no radio in their tanks, so they were flanked by the German army, which was very good. And all of the German generals were geniuses (ex: Guderian who elaborated blitzkrieg). Almost every time they lost it was the fault of hitler's stubbornness (cf. when the Russian defeated Von Paulus, or when the Allies wiped out the remaining German forces in Africa)

Tactics dont really work in this game. So increasing frances strength would do nothing but make it worse for historical accuracy. If you could stack armies then that would be different, make panzer divisions verse french tanks used as infantry support.

rhettrongun
Aug 04, 2011, 08:43 PM
Tactics dont really work in this game. So increasing frances strength would do nothing but make it worse for historical accuracy. If you could stack armies then that would be different, make panzer divisions verse french tanks used as infantry support.

Not a bad idea. Small stacks (ie. maybe 2-3) is definitely something I will look into for a future update. Not gonna try adding something so complicated at this point though.

As far as difficulty, I would recommend prince for any small empires. It might be worth trying out King if you plan to play as a major power though. The AI will still be dumb tactically of course, but it will be able to replace units faster.

On that same subject, another nice addition this update makes are some changes to the AI. The targeting priorities have been modified so that it will go after units more often (as opposed to being obsessed with bombing the same city over and over...). Also it will hurry production much more often. That was something that really bothered me before, as the AI civs with great economies would often just sit on hordes of gold (sometimes >40k), all the while they are being overrun by an invading force.

dlmt3
Aug 04, 2011, 09:11 PM
Not a bad idea. Small stacks (ie. maybe 2-3) is definitely something I will look into for a future update. Not gonna try adding something so complicated at this point though.

As far as difficulty, I would recommend prince for any small empires. It might be worth trying out King if you plan to play as a major power though. The AI will still be dumb tactically of course, but it will be able to replace units faster.

On that same subject, another nice addition this update makes are some changes to the AI. The targeting priorities have been modified so that it will go after units more often (as opposed to being obsessed with bombing the same city over and over...). Also it will hurry production much more often. That was something that really bothered me before, as the AI civs with great economies would often just sit on hordes of gold (sometimes >40k), all the while they are being overrun by an invading force.

I meant multiple units on the same tile, which is not possible in this game...

But yeah im happy you made the AI a little smarter, and now i wanna play on deity as Germany, and watch the USSR get 40+ conscripts and overrun me 5 turns after i declare war!

rhettrongun
Aug 04, 2011, 10:01 PM
Well I haven't tried it myself, but I assumed it was possible after I posted about it in a thread recently. Apparently someone has actually made a mod that does just that. Like I said though, I haven't tested it out or played this "Legion" mod. It appears to be very easy to implement if it does what it sounds like.

The thread I was referring to is here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=433887

ipso
Aug 05, 2011, 06:37 AM
There is also a nice mod which makes the scale larger : it's called Larger Scale Mod
here is a link (http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/14/top-10-civilization-v-mods/)

Concerning the civilizations, maybe you could use the mod which adds Vietnam as a playable civ. The ruler is Ho Chi Minn, they have a specific rifleman and a specific temple. I think their trait (Guerilla Warfare) makes their units move faster, and/or they are stronger, but they do not have any experience.

btw, which mods are compatible with yours ?

rhettrongun
Aug 05, 2011, 08:45 AM
Generally speaking, compatible mods would be any that don't change something that the WWII mod already messes with. That's the safest bet anyways, but you may find some exceptions to that.

The mods I've personally played alongside with the scenario have mostly been wonder mods in the past, so I do know those work. Although they tend to introduce a bug that is associated with civ5 too, so it's a tough decision in the sense that you risk your game crashing sporadically.
Another that I've used before was naval counterattacks.

I'll include a list of the changes this mod makes eventually, so it will be easy to see exactly what it does.

Farrapo
Aug 05, 2011, 11:18 AM
Would love to play this mod but still can't get it to go ... have you conformed that the additional DLCs are indeed necessary to play this? If so I can get them. Thx.

ipso
Aug 05, 2011, 11:25 AM
Yes you must have the DLCs because some rulers come from these DLCs

rhettrongun
Aug 05, 2011, 11:43 AM
I do not have the Spain, Inca, Babylon, Polynesia DLC, either.

My solution to this: open up the map in WorldBuilder. Go to the scenario editor. There should be a list of civilizations.
Find the civs that you do not have the DLC for (Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Iraq, Australia)... and then just move them down the list making them the last civs on the list in the scenario.

You won't be able to play as these civs... but it will make it so that you can see and select any of the other civs. The scenario should be perfectly playable... what it will do is that upon starting the scenario for the first time, the computer will randomly select other civs to fill in the blanks.
The only problem with this really is that it can be confusing as you will have multiple leaders with the same name. For instance, in my last game Genghis Khan was the leader of both Spain and Brazil.

In response to Farrapo.
If you're determined to avoid DLC, this might be a solution. I do not know for sure whether this works or not, as Ghandi Khan was playing on an older version. I can't think of any reason why it would no longer work though, so it's worth a try. It's a little complicated if you've never used World Builder. If that's the case I recommend checking out Kael's civ 5 modding guide and skipping to his World Builder section.

If you're considering starting/investing a bunch of time into a new game today using version 7/8, you might want to keep in mind that I'm planning to upload a large update over the weekend. Not sure exactly when, but if I don't hit too many road blocks I should have it up this evening.

dlmt3
Aug 05, 2011, 12:22 PM
Would love to play this mod but still can't get it to go ... have you conformed that the additional DLCs are indeed necessary to play this? If so I can get them. Thx.

All i have is denmark as additional DLC and I can play just fine...

rhettrongun
Aug 05, 2011, 09:47 PM
New update is posted. Let me know if there are any issues.

dlmt3
Aug 05, 2011, 10:16 PM
Update did not post...

rhettrongun
Aug 05, 2011, 10:28 PM
What?:wallbash: I am having no problem seeing them at the bottom of the opening post. It is in 4 parts, all of which are civ5mod files. Maybe there is a delay or something.

dlmt3
Aug 05, 2011, 10:47 PM
Oh i see, sorry. But i can't find a MODS folder D:

rhettrongun
Aug 05, 2011, 10:50 PM
This is the directory line mine is located in, which is a typical one:

C:\Users\Rhett\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS

dlmt3
Aug 05, 2011, 11:58 PM
Got it and installed it.

2 and a half turns done, here my report.

Took paris during turn three, France army pretty much gone. Pushing into egypt with my afrika korps. Took all 3 cities representing poland (take that stalin!) Took multiple city states.

Bug reports: Timeline is screwed up, its year 2059 now. Italy denounced me after i ended turn 2...

rhettrongun
Aug 06, 2011, 12:47 AM
Got it and installed it.

2 and a half turns done, here my report.

Took paris during turn three, France army pretty much gone. Pushing into egypt with my afrika korps. Took all 3 cities representing poland (take that stalin!) Took multiple city states.

Bug reports: Timeline is screwed up, its year 2059 now. Italy denounced me after i ended turn 2...

I decided to do a test using the files in this thread myself. I made sure that all my preexisting files related to the mod were moved so that I was actually testing the files here and not the ones I already checked.

My finding is that the timeline is working just fine. Only played 1 turn, but it was still 1939 at the start of the 2nd turn.
My guess is you must be playing on epic, marathon, or quick gamespeed. That will conflict with the timeline mod component.

Surprised you went after those city states next to USSR btw. They are definitely intended to go to the Soviets, as I think Germany starts out at peace with them.

Anyways, thanks for the timely feedback :goodjob:. I'm glad it seems to be working, and pending any major issues being discovered will be taking a nice break from WWII modding for a little while.

wulfy
Aug 06, 2011, 07:08 AM
2 turns, all deafults . . .

WOW, WOW & WOW (great job)

dlmt3: Stay out of Eastern Poland, Hitler (you) gave them to Stalin. Yes, Paris should take at least 4 moves (try uping the difficulty)

P.S.

My germies are grey again, thx :)

ipso
Aug 06, 2011, 08:07 AM
I've been playing Japan and I noticed a few things:
First, every time I disembark my infantry, it changes to a spearman. Hopefully it's only a graphic bug and there is no issue with the gameplay at all (it's just funny). Also the leaders now have heir old names like Askia Songhai for example instead of Argentina.
I don't know if it is a bug, but Japan can't produce type 97 tanks, only tankettes less effective at combat, while i hae something like 9 oil.

Then, about Japan, I thought you could improve some little things:
You could change the flag: the current one corresponds to the current flag of Japan. (during the war, it was like this (http://www.flags-shop.com/images/product_images/popup_images/339_0.jpg)).
Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because the Americans were against its expansion, and so, they had stopped giving Japan the resources it needed (oil notably). So maybe you could make the game start with a resource deal between Japan and USA (which will end automatically once they declare war on each other).

Thanks again for the mod! It's great

rhettrongun
Aug 06, 2011, 08:21 AM
I've been playing Japan and I noticed a few things:
First, every time I disembark my infantry, it changes to a spearman. Hopefully it's only a graphic bug and there is no issue with the gameplay at all (it's just funny). Also the leaders now have heir old names like Askia Songhai for example instead of Argentina.
I don't know if it is a bug, but Japan can't produce type 97 tanks, only tankettes less effective at combat, while i hae something like 9 oil.

Then, about Japan, I thought you could improve some little things:
You could change the flag: the current one corresponds to the current flag of Japan. (during the war, it was like this (http://www.flags-shop.com/images/product_images/popup_images/339_0.jpg)).
Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because the Americans were against its expansion, and so, they had stopped giving Japan the resources it needed (oil notably). So maybe you could make the game start with a resource deal between Japan and USA (which will end automatically once they declare war on each other).

Thanks again for the mod! It's great

Ugh, this doesn't sound good. I will check the mod out and see if I can find anything indicating why that would be happening. At first glance, I don't see a problem though. I'll try testing out Japan as well, and see if I find the same.

Danrell has posted even more WWII unit graphics recently btw, so now I know what the next update will mainly be about. Some of his ships/tanks look fantastic.

Koenvanderven
Aug 06, 2011, 08:38 AM
Same problem with the leaders names, and the name of hitler is something like TXT_LEADER_HITLER (as well as mussolini and the others)
Also, the names of the u-boat for example is TXT_UNIT_GERMAN_U-BOAT. THis is with all the "new units" (tankettes, advanced units, SS, planes).
Is there an easy fix for this problem?

rhettrongun
Aug 06, 2011, 08:49 AM
I couldn't get the spearman issue to show up. All embarked infantry are showing up normal for me. I'm using the files attached in this thread too, so I should be testing the same mod you guys are playing. Did you follow the Edited_Aim_State instructions? There are 2 files. The one in part 2 of the mod is supposed to be for infantry animations and the one in part 3 of the mod is for aircraft. I had animation issues when I first tried to use the graphics, but after doing exactly as those instructions say I haven't seen a one.

I also didn't notice the TXT_KEY problems. Are you sure you downloaded and enabled all 4 parts? I'll take a second look at those names I guess, but I could have swore the text entry updates were all included in the mod. Anyone else getting TXT_KEY references for names?

The problem I did find though, is that the Japanese tank is indeed not showing up as buildable. No idea why this is yet. The tanks the Japanese start with seemed to work, and the civilopedia displays all correct info on them for me. The only problem I notice is they do not show up in the tech tree under combustion.

Anyways, I will be trying to figure this stuff out. If I keep hearing that everyone is definitely experiencing problems I'll try cleaning and rebuilding the old mod files. It's possible something went wrong when I built the fragmented versions yesterday. Before I take the time to do something like that I need to know that everyone is experiencing the same issues though.

rhettrongun
Aug 06, 2011, 09:00 AM
Ok, I just found the cause of the Japanese tank not showing up. Just a dumb xml error on my part...:mad: Very frustrating. Looks like I botched the Italian tanks in a similar fashion. I must have mixed them up at some point when I added them.

Additional bugs: I uploaded outdated versions of maps also. They are not very old, but Italy starts with a strategic resource penalty and there are some aircraft that are preplaced on carriers that the game cannot seem to recognize. So, the aircraft end up just being left out from the scenario. This ends up leaving Britain and France short on some aircraft.

Anyways, at least I know the cause. I will definitely be uploading a new version now, so I would appreciate anymore help pinning down bugs. I want to get a good version up this time.

Another thing is I will be posting more clear installation instructions as well. I think I wasn't quite specific enough on a few things that need to be done for the mod to work correctly. I'm still not seeing any TXT_KEY reference issues. This is a strange bug to be seeing, because the XML components and the text entires of the mod are all in part 1 together. So I can't imagine how you would get the units to show up, and not get the correct text updates to show up as well. They should go together.

rhettrongun
Aug 06, 2011, 11:34 AM
A new version with the fixes has been posted in the OP along with better installation instructions.

dlmt3
Aug 06, 2011, 10:09 PM
Wulfy dont try and school me on WW2 history. I understand the NAP between the soviets and nazis. And the pact to split up poland, but i figured why not.

Rhettron, I did switch it to quick. But that doesnt explain Italy denouncing me...

wulfy
Aug 07, 2011, 06:26 AM
np, let me change tact; is it me or does Franco look alot like De Gulle's brother.

rhettrongun
Aug 07, 2011, 07:51 AM
But that doesnt explain Italy denouncing me...

I didn't address that, because I thought I had already been over this earlier in the thread. So I figured you were just mentioning it as a minor bit of info.
I reduced Mussolini's war mongering hatred to the lowest setting possible. There isn't much more I can do outside of maybe making a LUA mod that directly makes all the diplomacy moves in game. I don't know how to work with LUA right now though, so that's pretty far back on the back burner.

You can do a couple things to try and counteract negative diplomacy factors with them. Always respond with the kind option when he comes to you about settling near him, offer any sort of trade option you can to him (IIRC I usually sell him spare furs right away), and promptly denounce anyone you see him denounce.

As for my own experience, I played a game as Japan and managed to conquer all of China plus Hong Kong, Korea, Taiwan, Hanoi, Lhasa, Singapore, French Indochina, Sri Lanka, and also some minor pacific island colonies. All of this within about 30 turns and never was denounced by either Hitler, Mussolini, or even Stalin for that matter (Although I did denounce Stalin to get in good graces with others). So I think it must be possible to get by without being denounced by Axis leaders.

np, let me change tact; is it me or does Franco look alot like De Gulle's brother.

Yes, that picture is of de Gaulle. Most of those small leader portraits aren't my work. Along with a lot of the Civ icons, Pal1723 posted them as download packs for WWII.

It's something I noticed a while ago, and put off correcting. It was a minor problem compared to some of the other things I was doing at the time, and changing the portrait is kind of a chore. Should get corrected next time at least.

dlmt3
Aug 07, 2011, 03:44 PM
Well i decided to play as Japan for this version, and so far im loving it. I am ripping apart china even after they almost sent me right back to the seas a few times.

China is down to like 7ish cities now. Although, with my rapid conquest I am at a constant worry at what my happiness level is. Ive traded for every luxury resource possible but it's still bad. Cities are in revolt for 6+ turns and Courthouses take a while to make. But it makes it harder so its more fun.

One issue i have is production seems off. I personally dont think it should take a year or two to build a plane...or recruit infantry. Reinforcements are virtually non existant with the high production values of everything.

And final issue is its turn 7 and no French cities have fallen, I also played as Germany to see why that is, and the French army is WAY to strong. Tactics dont work in this game and especially dont work for the AI. If you want this to be realistic France should have virtually no army. Fill the Maginot Line and give them an AA gun or 2 and 1 tank. But the amount that they have makes it hard for the AI Germany to deal with them.

EDIT: End of Turn 7 Paris fell. Turn 10 no others have.

wulfy
Aug 07, 2011, 08:06 PM
Good point, in past versions moders have created separate maps for specific civs (e.g. playing USA would have weak Frane to give German ai chance, as dlmt3 indicates).

rhettrongun
Aug 07, 2011, 09:38 PM
I was building things like tanks, destroyers, zeros, g4ms in about 4 turns in Tokyo. Toward the end of my campaign in China I had a population in Tokyo of 20+ and was pumping out units in 2-3 turns. I was also able to purchase units fairly consistently throughout. I will give you that those same units were taking 10-15 turns in the other cities, but I think the high GPT Japan gets should make up for it. If you don't like the long production times btw, you do have the option of constructing things like War Manufacturing Centers and Shipyards. Both accelerate build time immensely. The other thing is Japan starts out with 1 of the largest armies.

As far as Europe, I was trying to strike the right balance here to avoid creating multiple map versions. But I think you are probably right. I watched Europe closely in my own game earlier and the best I saw was the taking of Paris at about turn 12 or so. They were able to take Athens surprisingly, but that doesn't make the stalemate in France forgivable.

So, this is something I will take a look at correcting later. Not so sure about changing Japan up too much though. They already do pretty well controlled by the AI, and at least for me were very capable of conquering southeast Asia.

rhettrongun
Aug 08, 2011, 01:27 PM
One issue i have is production seems off. I personally dont think it should take a year or two to build a plane...or recruit infantry.

On second thought, you have brought up a pretty good point here. Specifically on the infantry. The next version I'll try to adjust the infantry costs way down, and to compensate will expand the combat stats gap between them and vehicles. Should make for a more realistic army compilation.

dlmt3
Aug 08, 2011, 01:55 PM
I was building things like tanks, destroyers, zeros, g4ms in about 4 turns in Tokyo. Toward the end of my campaign in China I had a population in Tokyo of 20+ and was pumping out units in 2-3 turns. I was also able to purchase units fairly consistently throughout. I will give you that those same units were taking 10-15 turns in the other cities, but I think the high GPT Japan gets should make up for it. If you don't like the long production times btw, you do have the option of constructing things like War Manufacturing Centers and Shipyards. Both accelerate build time immensely. The other thing is Japan starts out with 1 of the largest armies.

As far as Europe, I was trying to strike the right balance here to avoid creating multiple map versions. But I think you are probably right. I watched Europe closely in my own game earlier and the best I saw was the taking of Paris at about turn 12 or so. They were able to take Athens surprisingly, but that doesn't make the stalemate in France forgivable.

So, this is something I will take a look at correcting later. Not so sure about changing Japan up too much though. They already do pretty well controlled by the AI, and at least for me were very capable of conquering southeast Asia.

Yeah with Japans army china fell quickly, I built a line of forts between mountains and left them with 3 cities, in order to focus on Australia and the US. I destroyed most of the U.S. Pacific fleet and am now landing in Australia and moving to take Midway and Honolulu. I even have 2 battleships now and 3 Carriers all full of planes. Complete naval dominance is awesome.

Although I feel multiple maps is entirely unnecessary. Just weaken France a lot. Whether a human or an AI is playing as France they should fall very quickly. Just for accuracy.

On second thought, you have brought up a pretty good point here. Specifically on the infantry. The next version I'll try to adjust the infantry costs way down, and to compensate will expand the combat stats gap between them and vehicles. Should make for a more realistic army compilation.

Ok good! They really took too long to create, and when faced up against a tank could hold out a bit too well.

paulvelpablo
Aug 08, 2011, 06:40 PM
Hi.
did everything like you explained in first post.
My game is running, but crushes always after first turn (sometimes even when i`m loading the game)...
Is 3gb of ram not enough?
rest of my pc is pretty good as i recently bought new computer.
Plus never had the problem with normal game or other scenarios even when biggest world map was full....
Any help??
Scenario is awesome and i really want to play more than one turn...

rhettrongun
Aug 09, 2011, 12:17 AM
Hi.
did everything like you explained in first post.
My game is running, but crushes always after first turn (sometimes even when i`m loading the game)...
Is 3gb of ram not enough?
rest of my pc is pretty good as i recently bought new computer.
Plus never had the problem with normal game or other scenarios even when biggest world map was full....
Any help??
Scenario is awesome and i really want to play more than one turn...

First off, sorry to hear that. I had problems with Civ 5 crashing a while back myself, and it's pretty frustrating. The scenario is confirmed to be working correctly at this point, so it must be something going wrong on your end.
There is a ton of stuff playing out through the first few turns, so insufficient ram could be the case.

I don't know how much help I can be with this, so you're probably better off posting it as a topic in the tech support sub forum here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=409

Include any error messages you're getting with the crash too. Good luck.

rhettrongun
Aug 09, 2011, 12:31 AM
I've been going through Danrell's new WWII units over the last couple days, and have compiled tech tree modifications, and stats for most of the German land units. Still missing AA units.

The amount of units is beginning to make unit balance difficult. So, if anyone wants to suggest adjustments on anything feel free to take a look through them and post recommendations. The spreadsheet has a column on the far right with a few notes listed to address some things that might be confusing.

Sethyboy0
Aug 09, 2011, 10:03 AM
There is a ton of stuff playing out through the first few turns, so insufficient ram could be the case.

I don't think this is the case, as my computer has 3 gigs of ram (which is probably slow ram) as well and it works fine.

grimace104
Aug 09, 2011, 02:48 PM
Figured it

ipso
Aug 09, 2011, 03:10 PM
concerning the French army's strength, here is a suggestion:
rhettrongun, maybe you could put a weak French army for the historic scenario, and the current one (actually, the true one) for the open setup scenario

dlmt3
Aug 09, 2011, 07:14 PM
concerning the French army's strength, here is a suggestion:
rhettrongun, maybe you could put a weak French army for the historic scenario, and the current one (actually, the true one) for the open setup scenario

Why? France *should* fall no matter what. since tactics dont do much for this game with AI then the french army must be weakened.

paulvelpablo
Aug 09, 2011, 10:56 PM
Hi :)
I had 6gb of ram but due to windows 7 32 bit could only use 3gb.
Today i have updated my system to win7 64 bit and it is working perfectly (the whole game is running now much much faster :]

This is the best ww2 scenario for civ5 i have played so far!

after 7 turns i conquest france and strip of great britain from they entire fleet :D

now preparing for mainland invasion and turkey and balkans conquest :]
there is tension on russian border but trying to keep them away as long as i can :]

I just spot one thing when playing germany:
it shows that i should have -178 gold each turn, but it is not taken after next turn in the end i just earn money after city is conquered but not loosing any money due to negative balance. not bad but it is a bug and if i could loose money game could be more intresting and difficult :]

THank You very much for this scenario! 10/10! :]

rhettrongun
Aug 10, 2011, 03:40 AM
Hi :)
I had 6gb of ram but due to windows 7 32 bit could only use 3gb.
Today i have updated my system to win7 64 bit and it is working perfectly (the whole game is running now much much faster :]

This is the best ww2 scenario for civ5 i have played so far!

after 7 turns i conquest france and strip of great britain from they entire fleet :D

now preparing for mainland invasion and turkey and balkans conquest :]
there is tension on russian border but trying to keep them away as long as i can :]

I just spot one thing when playing germany:
it shows that i should have -178 gold each turn, but it is not taken after next turn in the end i just earn money after city is conquered but not loosing any money due to negative balance. not bad but it is a bug and if i could loose money game could be more intresting and difficult :]

THank You very much for this scenario! 10/10! :]

Glad to hear you got it to work/like the scenario.
On the income issue, it sounds like you're getting so much gold from sacking cities and defeating enemy units that it is negating the amount you're losing each turn. If that's true, it's not necessarily a bug. That's a bonus you get from having completed the honor policy branch. If you go a while without sacking another city or defeating many units the negative income should begin to impact your treasury.

The next version will be another big improvement thanks to the new unit graphics Danrell has created. I updated the unit sheet yesterday, so that is posted below if anyone wants to make suggestions.

champ123
Aug 10, 2011, 07:10 PM
Hi there rhettrongun!

First of all: This scenario is amazing! The best civ 5 scenario!!!
Second: It seems that the AI is too stupid to produce air-units. That is really pity. Is there a possibility to have buildings that autoproduce units like airplanes just like in many of the old civ III scenarios? This would be very nice, because the AI would always have airplanes etc. Then the war (for example) against the sovietunion wouldnīt be so easy after some time. I could also imagine buildings autoproducing carriers for japan or the US and so on.

champ123

rhettrongun
Aug 10, 2011, 10:10 PM
A nice idea, but that is once again something that LUA would be needed for. I can't even do the most basic operations with it at the moment, so something complex like that is a definite no for now. My guess on how it would have to be done is by giving a player a unit on a turn at a location. All of which would need to be specifically defined.

I'm planning to run a 2 units/plot test, so I will decide soon if that is a good direction for the next version.

champ123
Aug 11, 2011, 03:37 AM
This sounds good.
Here some other suggestions/questions:

1. I have noticed that youīve placed Ankara in the east of turkey. Normally itīs located more in the central of the country. Maybe it should be renamed to Erzurum.

2. I donīt know where but iīve read that youīve explained for what the different map-versions are. I canīt find it anymore.

3. Iīve used the search function but i didnīt found anything. I have a "minor-problem" inside the game. All the new added units are namend "TXT_KEY_UNIT_and then the name of the unit". Iīve cleared the cache of the game, but it didnīt worked for me. Can you help me?

4. is it possible to give each citystate different unitgraphics or is there LUA also needed? This would give the game more flavore.

5. Thank you;)

rhettrongun
Aug 11, 2011, 10:25 AM
This sounds good.
Here some other suggestions/questions:

1. I have noticed that youīve placed Ankara in the east of turkey. Normally itīs located more in the central of the country. Maybe it should be renamed to Erzurum.

2. I donīt know where but iīve read that youīve explained for what the different map-versions are. I canīt find it anymore.

3. Iīve used the search function but i didnīt found anything. I have a "minor-problem" inside the game. All the new added units are namend "TXT_KEY_UNIT_and then the name of the unit". Iīve cleared the cache of the game, but it didnīt worked for me. Can you help me?

4. is it possible to give each citystate different unitgraphics or is there LUA also needed? This would give the game more flavore.

5. Thank you;)

You're welcome :)

1. I'll take a look at it and most likely end up changing the name then.

2. It probably got deleted from the OP at some point when I was updating it. The differences are all based on the starting diplomacy situation.
In the regular version all 1939 Allies & Axis start out permanently at war with one another, and also are permanently at peace with corresponding WWII allies (with a few exceptions like US & Mexico).
In O1 version the permanent peace is removed, so war can be declared on anyone.
In O2 version permanent war is removed, so generally the AI will sue for peace after turn 7.
In O3 version no one starts out at war or with any treaties in place either.
The O (open) versions were all added for fun.

3. I saw that some others had that problem earlier when I first uploaded the mod. After I reuploaded it with the new install instructions I hadn't heard anymore about it, so I assumed it was solved. I need to know exactly what state you're running the mod in to help:
-First just to clarify, is it just the units that are showing up this way? Do leader names work? How about either of the 2 custom buildings that Germany gets? Almost all of the name changes reference to the same large file called "NewText.xml", so that is why I'm asking. It doesn't makes sense to me that only some of the name changes would not be working.
-At the in game mod enable screen what mods do you have enabled when you are planning to setup a new game? Type them out exactly as they appear (ie. "WWII mod part 1/4 (v2)")
You should have 4 enabled parts 1-4 that are all (v2). Also, don't try to run any extra mods along with the WWII scenario mods. That's probably common sense if you're getting a bug, but I figure it's worth mentioning.

-Do you have any old versions of the mod parts sitting there? This is just guesswork by me, but having an old version in the MODS folder along with version 2 may be causing a conflict even if it's not enabled. If so either move it from the folder or delete it.

-Lastly if you are thinking that everything appears to be installed correctly, you might just try to reinstall the mod. Delete the mod you have first if you want to try it. You shouldn't have to redo the part with the Edited_Aim_state files though.

4. That may be possible. I still have hundreds of more units to add in for the major civs though, so it's not something I'll be looking into doing for a while.

champ123
Aug 11, 2011, 02:25 PM
3. I saw that some others had that problem earlier when I first uploaded the mod. After I reuploaded it with the new install instructions I hadn't heard anymore about it, so I assumed it was solved. I need to know exactly what state you're running the mod in to help:
-First just to clarify, is it just the units that are showing up this way? Do leader names work? How about either of the 2 custom buildings that Germany gets? Almost all of the name changes reference to the same large file called "NewText.xml", so that is why I'm asking. It doesn't makes sense to me that only some of the name changes would not be working.
-At the in game mod enable screen what mods do you have enabled when you are planning to setup a new game? Type them out exactly as they appear (ie. "WWII mod part 1/4 (v2)")
You should have 4 enabled parts 1-4 that are all (v2). Also, don't try to run any extra mods along with the WWII scenario mods. That's probably common sense if you're getting a bug, but I figure it's worth mentioning.

-Do you have any old versions of the mod parts sitting there? This is just guesswork by me, but having an old version in the MODS folder along with version 2 may be causing a conflict even if it's not enabled. If so either move it from the folder or delete it.

-Lastly if you are thinking that everything appears to be installed correctly, you might just try to reinstall the mod. Delete the mod you have first if you want to try it. You shouldn't have to redo the part with the Edited_Aim_state files though.



The only thing i can say is, that iīve followed your instructions. No, the building names are correct. But all the new units (graphics) begin with that "TXT" thing. The same for Spain (Citynames, Leadername etc). Iīve only installed your mod.
Oh and this one you wanted from me:

WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 1 of 4 (v.2)

WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 2 of 4 (v.2)

WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 3 of 4 (v.2)

WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 4 of 4 (v.2)

WWII Full Earth Campaign (v.8)

rhettrongun
Aug 11, 2011, 02:58 PM
The only thing i can say is, that iīve followed your instructions. No, the building names are correct. But all the new units (graphics) begin with that "TXT" thing. The same for Spain (Citynames, Leadername etc). Iīve only installed your mod.
Oh and this one you wanted from me:

WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 1 of 4 (v.2)

WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 2 of 4 (v.2)

WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 3 of 4 (v.2)

WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 4 of 4 (v.2)

WWII Full Earth Campaign (v.8)

Very good then, as the problem is actually very simple. :cool:

That last mod, "WWII Full Earth Campaign (v.8)", is what is causing the conflict. It's an old version. Only enable parts 1-4 (v.2), and I recommend either moving the (v.8) file to a storage or deleting it entirely. Up to you.

Freekick
Aug 12, 2011, 05:59 AM
Hi,
For some reason I always get a message "You have been defeated" when I try to start the game.
I have run the game with your MOD perfectly before but all of a sudden I could not load a saved game, it came up "Runtime error" and CIV was shut down.
Then I deleted WWII in the MOD to be able to re-install it! Now I cannot find it :confused:
I have downloaded your files according to your instructions but it seems like the map is not there... Where can I find it? Can you send it to me or how do I re-install it in the MODS?
Please help! I loved to play your scenario!!!!

rhettrongun
Aug 12, 2011, 10:32 AM
Hi,
For some reason I always get a message "You have been defeated" when I try to start the game.
I have run the game with your MOD perfectly before but all of a sudden I could not load a saved game, it came up "Runtime error" and CIV was shut down.
Then I deleted WWII in the MOD to be able to re-install it! Now I cannot find it :confused:
I have downloaded your files according to your instructions but it seems like the map is not there... Where can I find it? Can you send it to me or how do I re-install it in the MODS?
Please help! I loved to play your scenario!!!!

There was a new Civ5 patch released recently, so perhaps that has led to a problem. Based on what it did, I have no idea how you might get the defeated screen right from the get go though. So, it sounds like an anomaly. Let's just verify you have everything in its correct spot first.

The mod files are still available for download attached at the bottom of the first post in this thread. Part 4 specifically holds all the maps.
I think I'm just restating what the instructions in the first post already say, but I'll do a quick run down on what should work.

To reinstall the mods with a clean slate delete all the old WW2 files in your MODS folder, download and place the mod files into your MODS folder, go in game to the browse mods screen and select install mods, and lastly enable parts 1-4. Make sure no other mods are enable too.

If you're still having a problem after reinstalling then there is probably something that went wrong since the patch. In which case, I'll verify I get the same problem and have to figure out where the issue is.

Freekick
Aug 12, 2011, 07:17 PM
Hi, now I disabled all other mods and now I can start the game BUT I cannot load the map, it starts up like a normal civ game, meaning with a settler and a warrior...I have all 4 parts downloaded but nothing else. I think I need the actual map but I can't find it when I browse MODS.

Pegasos
Aug 13, 2011, 07:20 AM
I have the same problem as Freekick, I have moved the maps in mod folder 4 to programfiles(x86)/Steam/.../Maps and I can't play it as a scenario, only as a map starting in 4000bc.

rhettrongun
Aug 13, 2011, 11:58 AM
Are you guys remembering to select "Load Scenario" in the game setup screen before starting? I left that out of my instructions, because I thought it was common knowledge.
Other than that, I have no idea why that might be happening. I'll be back to my computer later this afternoon and be able to verify the scenario still works ok after the civ5 August patch.

champ123
Aug 13, 2011, 01:03 PM
Very good then, as the problem is actually very simple. :cool:

That last mod, "WWII Full Earth Campaign (v.8)", is what is causing the conflict. It's an old version. Only enable parts 1-4 (v.2), and I recommend either moving the (v.8) file to a storage or deleting it entirely. Up to you.

Thanks alot! It worked:)

Sethyboy0
Aug 13, 2011, 02:11 PM
I have the same problem as Freekick, I have moved the maps in mod folder 4 to programfiles(x86)/Steam/.../Maps and I can't play it as a scenario, only as a map starting in 4000bc.

You don't put them in the maps folder, you leave them in the same mod folder they're in.

champ123
Aug 14, 2011, 05:34 AM
Hi,

i donīt want to sound precocious, but the graphic of the Ju 88 is not a Ju 88. Maybe there arenīt any Ju 88 for Civ V?

champ123

rhettrongun
Aug 14, 2011, 11:00 AM
No, you're right. At the time I was building the current version the unit graphics were somewhat limited, and I am not the one who makes them. I think I used the he-219 as a substitute. I also recently noticed that it's actually "junkers" with an 's' instead of what I had been using. The Arado-234 is another one that wasn't available, so it uses the he-111. Arado-234 is going to be scratched in the next version in favor of the he-177.

The good thing is that the Ju-88 and hundreds of other units all have been created by Danrell in his latest unit graphic pack for WW2 mods. So that is what I've been working on lately. I'm about 75% of the way through establishing all the unit statistics, which is actually the hardest part. Adding them to the xml is next.

champ123
Aug 14, 2011, 04:38 PM
Thank you again, but just a few more things :blush:

Actually i am playing as italy. The Breda BA-65 has no icon on the lower left side. There are just a few red and white squares.

A friend of mine wants to play your scenario too, but he hasnīt got the DLC civs. Is it possible to make a version with civs from other modders? if you donīt want to do it, maybe i could with a few hints;)

Thank you again!

rhettrongun
Aug 14, 2011, 11:10 PM
Thank you again, but just a few more things :blush:

Actually i am playing as italy. The Breda BA-65 has no icon on the lower left side. There are just a few red and white squares.

A friend of mine wants to play your scenario too, but he hasnīt got the DLC civs. Is it possible to make a version with civs from other modders? if you donīt want to do it, maybe i could with a few hints;)

Thank you again!

Quickly looking at the code, I don't see why the ba-65 unit icon would be missing while the other fighter-bombers are fine. I'll keep it in mind next time I'm checking for errors in game though.

He should be able to still play as is from what I have heard from others posting ITT. Supposedly the DLC civs will just be auto replaced with a double of a random leader. I haven't tested this myself though, so I don't know if it works.

If you've confirmed that it's unplayable for him, the user Ghandi Khan wrote a solution several pages back that may help. I think it involves changing the map a little bit, so I recommend the world builder section of Kael's modding guide if you need help with it.

Sampson
Aug 15, 2011, 01:27 AM
Idk if anyone has caught this yet (I didn't feel like reading 10 pages) - the German cruiser Graf Spree was actually called Graf Spee. I liked your mod though, great job :)

champ123
Aug 15, 2011, 03:10 AM
He should be able to still play as is from what I have heard from others posting ITT. Supposedly the DLC civs will just be auto replaced with a double of a random leader. I haven't tested this myself though, so I don't know if it works.


He tested it. It is possible. But now there are double leaders. Maybe it is possible to replace them with MOD-leaders. I will look around for a solution.

rhettrongun
Aug 15, 2011, 09:05 AM
Idk if anyone has caught this yet (I didn't feel like reading 10 pages) - the German cruiser Graf Spree was actually called Graf Spee. I liked your mod though, great job :)

Added to the list of things to remember to change. I'll be resetting most of the units that start on the map in the next version, so it will definitely be fixed. Thanks.

rhettrongun
Aug 15, 2011, 09:29 AM
Attached is a completed unit list/statistics for the next version, and a small picture of the tech sheet. I was going mainly for realism, but attempted to keep things balanced to some degree too.

Notes on the far right column provide some info about new promotions, or changes to existing ones. Formulas for calculating things like ranged attack and moves are typically at the top of the respective column. Generally, moves are based on max fuel range for aircraft and road speed for land units. Some of them I had to fudge a bit for certain units in order to account for extra attributes they don't take into account.
I realize these formulas I used aren't perfect, but it was the best method I could come up with taking into account the challenge of researching/compiling so many units.

It's divided into 4 excel sheets. Land units, aircraft, naval units, and tech changes. It will take a while to add all of this to xml, so there is plenty of time to provide input if you'd like to help out with any corrections you think should be made.

champ123
Aug 16, 2011, 03:50 AM
WOW! The list is amazing! Will these units be really in the next version? I guess you are not able to say when it will be finished.

Maybe there should be more techs in the teachtree with shorter researchtime. Otherwise we wonīt see any of those units in the game. I mean itīs possible (playing as germany) to defeat france and great britain within a few rounds. Damn my english is not that good to explain what i mean... :blush:
Ok, an example although the time is not realistic: Imagine you are able to defeat france and great britain within say 20 rounds (European theater). Researching one tech lasts almost 25 or more rounds.
I know if you set the research time too low we wonīt be able "to savour" the units weīve researched a few rounds before. It needs to be balanced. A balance between researchtime and available techs. Anyway in my opinion more techs are needed.

rhettrongun
Aug 16, 2011, 09:08 AM
WOW! The list is amazing! Will these units be really in the next version? I guess you are not able to say when it will be finished.

Maybe there should be more techs in the teachtree with shorter researchtime. Otherwise we wonīt see any of those units in the game. I mean itīs possible (playing as germany) to defeat france and great britain within a few rounds. Damn my english is not that good to explain what i mean... :blush:
Ok, an example although the time is not realistic: Imagine you are able to defeat france and great britain within say 20 rounds (European theater). Researching one tech lasts almost 25 or more rounds.
I know if you set the research time too low we wonīt be able "to savour" the units weīve researched a few rounds before. It needs to be balanced. A balance between researchtime and available techs. Anyway in my opinion more techs are needed.

Yes, that is definitely the plan and I am really looking forward to having this build completed. I'm thinking I could be finished as soon as sometime next week, or be as long as a month off. It really depends on how many roadblocks I run into implementing changes.

I have already thought about how to approach the tech tree quite a bit. All of the research times are already shortened first off. Most are set at about the same level as they are in the regular game for the moment. The only item that is too high to ever get through is future tech. Everything else should be very possible to reach within a 1944 or so time frame. When I begin testing the scenario I'll see if they should be shortened even more so.
If you look at that tech sheet you'll notice the number of techs the scenario uses has effectively been lengthened by 3 or 4 also. Vanilla nuclear Fusion, particle physics, nanotech, and to some extent advanced ballistics are effectively not used in the current uploaded version.
The other thing is civs like France are planned to start out with a lot of their "advanced" ww2 units. The reason is that in reality they were knocked out of the war before they ever had a chance to develop much.

I've put in more adjustments to make fighting last longer too. HP for units is set at 20, and 40 for cities right now. One other thing is I am trying out 2 units/tile in this one too. I'll see how they turn out in game later of course, but my hope is that the European theatre should stay active for much longer.

l4d2bob
Aug 22, 2011, 04:35 PM
Great Map!

dlmt3
Aug 22, 2011, 07:15 PM
Still great and after I took over parts of africa and india with Japan I kinda stopped playing.

I just have one more suggestion, Germanys navy is too strong. With a human player using it they are able to overwhelm britains navy, and I feel any attack on great britain should be near impossible from sea to land at least.

And one more is that paratroopers should be able to paradrop then attack in the same turn. Because they are pretty much sitting ducks behind enemy lines.

rhettrongun
Aug 23, 2011, 10:16 AM
Still great and after I took over parts of africa and india with Japan I kinda stopped playing.

I just have one more suggestion, Germanys navy is too strong. With a human player using it they are able to overwhelm britains navy, and I feel any attack on great britain should be near impossible from sea to land at least.

And one more is that paratroopers should be able to paradrop then attack in the same turn. Because they are pretty much sitting ducks behind enemy lines.

I've got so many changes to the units (well over 100 new) coming in the next version that the naval balances will end up completely redone. I'll be sure to take that into account when I'm placing all the new units though.
IIRC I tried some different naval situations in the north sea, and a problem was that if the UK has too much of an advantage then they are able to consistently invade Denmark. This led to problems like the AI invasion of France becoming a stalemate. This is of course already a problem for the AI even in the current state. However, I think it might be more manageable this time around with the new units, and also a few map changes I've gone with.

The thing about paratroopers in WW2 is that they were pretty much sitting ducks when they were landing. A good example of that is the invasion of Crete. Many German paratroopers were shot dead before they even hit the ground. Many that landed successfully found themselves in very vulnerable situations. The end result was still a win for Germany, but they lost so many men that they never tried a large scale air invasion again throughout the war (ie. Malta). They were able to prevail because they kept the defenders from being resupplied and eventually overwhelmed them with numbers.
One thing I might try though is have them start out with the cover promotion. That should help a bit with the problem you're bringing up, but still keep what I think is a realistic depiction of their vulnerability.

As far as where the next version is at currently, I am 2 steps away from testing in game. I still need to add/adjust a lot of ai flavor controls for units, and then the big step left is the addition of the unit graphics. I wanted to finish it by this week, but it looks like that isn't possible. I'm going on a vacation tomorrow, so the prospect is nil. Anyways, I hope to be done by the following weekend. It should be quite fun having access to so many WW2 units in game.

champ123
Sep 03, 2011, 02:17 PM
How is your work going on? :)

JK_47
Sep 03, 2011, 04:47 PM
Hi everybody,

I am pretty new at using mods but I don't think I've got it quite right.

I followed all of the installation instructions listed on the first post without any difficulty, and everything seemed to go smoothly. I started a game and I had all the custom civs and leader images, but when I started the game it began at 4000bc and I had a settler and warrior starting in mesoamerica as Britain!

Shouldn't this start like the screenshot on the first post in the 1930s/40s with the world as it was? What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

~JK_47

rhettrongun
Sep 03, 2011, 06:37 PM
Hey Champ. It is going pretty well. The scenario runs without any crashes during testing, and I have managed to add all the new units I originally had in mind too. The one concern is the game runs pretty slow now, and I'm using what I think is a fairly good machine.
I have a decent number of text entries still to update and then I'll need to run a few more tests to make sure what I've added since my initial test works properly. I will have a lot of time to work on it tomorrow, so it should be ready to upload soon. It's in the 60+ MB range now too, so I'll have to use an external file hosting site.

Hi everybody,

I am pretty new at using mods but I don't think I've got it quite right.

I followed all of the installation instructions listed on the first post without any difficulty, and everything seemed to go smoothly. I started a game and I had all the custom civs and leader images, but when I started the game it began at 4000bc and I had a settler and warrior starting in mesoamerica as Britain!

Shouldn't this start like the screenshot on the first post in the 1930s/40s with the world as it was? What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

~JK_47

Hi. You have to select "Load Scenario" on the main game setup screen to have the starting map situation load. Without that you just get to play the map by itself in 4000 BC.

I would recommend waiting a bit before trying this scenario actually. The current version is dated at this pointed. I have a huge update that should be available sometime in the next few days.

rhettrongun
Sep 03, 2011, 06:49 PM
btw, it is probably a good time to ask opinions on limiting the number of certain ship classes.

This is how I have things set atm:

-Capital Ships> 2
-Carriers> 4 each (Britain, USA, and Japan each have 2 different classes; all others only have 1)
-Battleships> 4
-Dreadnoughts> 6
-Sub carriers> 3

Keep in mind that all these units except for maybe the Sub carriers are pretty tough to destroy, so it's not like they will be getting sunk a lot.

Sethyboy0
Sep 03, 2011, 07:16 PM
Would that be a limit on how many you can produce or how many you can have at one time?

Also, good to know the latest version is coming out soon, I'm looking forward to it. :D

rhettrongun
Sep 03, 2011, 07:31 PM
My understanding is it's the number that can be built throughout the entire game. So for example once the USSR builds and loses 2 of its capital ships it can no longer have any for the remaining game.

I don't know for sure on whether the game counts units that are preplaced on the map against the number. I'm thinking it doesn't, but I'll check it out when I'm testing things to be sure.

EDIT: Actually I think it's both. No more than 2 capitals at any time, plus only 2 can be built.

JK_47
Sep 03, 2011, 07:36 PM
Hi. You have to select "Load Scenario" on the main game setup screen to have the starting map situation load. Without that you just get to play the map by itself in 4000 BC.

I would recommend waiting a bit before trying this scenario actually. The current version is dated at this pointed. I have a huge update that should be available sometime in the next few days.

Thanks so much for the reply!

That is the piece I don't have, and seems to be what I'm not getting across the board for loading scenarios. How do I get scenarios to load on that screen? All I have right now are the DLC scenarios I own (Mongols and New World)

Thanks, JK_47

rhettrongun
Sep 03, 2011, 07:46 PM
You're welcome. Honestly it's a little difficult to try and explain for me. Here is an old thread where it looks to have been discussed into great detail:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9728223

The general keys are select "Mods" out of the main menu, select "browse mods", enable the applicable mods you want to use, go back to the main mods screen and setup game, select the map you want to play, then click on "Load Scenario".

JK_47
Sep 04, 2011, 07:17 AM
Thanks again! I wasn't catching the "load scenario" button. Got it now!

Looking forward to your planned update and thanks for all the work you do - this looks like a lot of fun!

~JK_47

dlmt3
Sep 04, 2011, 02:26 PM
I personally dont think ship limiting is a good idea, it's too restrictive, when everything else is open for whatever you want it to be.

But as for another thing i remember back you said you would lower the production value for infantry, you did that right?

rhettrongun
Sep 04, 2011, 06:59 PM
Yep. Infantry units are dirt cheap now. About 150-200 depending on what type. The conscripts are about half that.

dlmt3
Sep 04, 2011, 08:24 PM
Alright cool. I take it amphibious would be the higher end...

Well I've been playing as benito lately, and you have a good challenge there, I overcame it in the long run, overrunning Athens, Marseille, and Tunisia, the real challenge is egypt, although I kinda made that a challenge myself.

I am really just looking to take Suez so I can get reinforcements to Ethiopia. Either way Italy is really fun to play as, trying to rebuild the roman empire and all.

Oh and ethiopia was taken so quickly because of Italian air power, granite using mustard gas, but I still think they should have a fighter in Ethiopia.

drumheller101
Sep 04, 2011, 08:55 PM
I love your WW2 scenario!
I'm just wondering what, if any, City State Mod(s) you may have used?

With the one I'm using I see alot of repeated City State names.

rhettrongun
Sep 04, 2011, 09:25 PM
Ok, I'll plan on putting a fighter there then. It never hurts having more aircraft to play with.
I just finished off the last of the text entries :twitch: Some are kind of bare bones, but they will suffice for now.

Good to hear Drumheller. That's a no on the city-state mods. There are at least a dozen that I just reused an existing CS in World Builder for. I have been focused on getting the WW2 units added for quite a while now, so there just hasn't been time for it. Maybe something for later though.

dlmt3
Sep 05, 2011, 05:48 PM
Oh and I almost forgot, Italy has one P-type bomber at the start, and lacks the technology to build any, minus fighter bombers.

Why not give them the tech for a weak light bomber? And if there is anyone else lacking that tech you should give them one too. I just feel air power should be as devastating in Civ5 as it was in real life.

rhettrongun
Sep 06, 2011, 09:49 AM
I saw they were building the sm-79 by the mid 30s, so that is definitely something to change. I'll either start them out with radar or make the the sm79 available at flight tech. Probably the latter, since I don't think they should have paratroopers.

rhettrongun
Sep 07, 2011, 09:33 AM
Just to update on why there has been no upload yet, I found a lot more errors than anticipated and even some crash causing bugs when I started testing a couple days ago.

Everything cleaned up ok though, and it basically appears ready for upload now. So, I plan to post the new version this evening.

rhettrongun
Sep 07, 2011, 06:51 PM
Scenario is uploaded. Download link is at the top of the Opening Post. As always feedback is welcome, and I am willing to help if there are install problems. See the instructions first though.

puyolazo
Sep 07, 2011, 07:24 PM
Thanks a lot for the mod. Unafortunately, i have a problem when i load the map. An emergent window of Microsoft C++ debugging appears and, when I click to cancel, retry or omit, the game crashes. I use Civ5 with DirectX 11 and Windows 7 64 bits. Can you help me, please? thanks again

rhettrongun
Sep 07, 2011, 08:21 PM
Thanks a lot for the mod. Unafortunately, i have a problem when i load the map. An emergent window of Microsoft C++ debugging appears and, when I click to cancel, retry or omit, the game crashes. I use Civ5 with DirectX 11 and Windows 7 64 bits. Can you help me, please? thanks again

Anyone else experience this? I had these crashes occur when I was testing the map, but I fixed what was causing it. It means there is some major xml conflict that prevents the game from running properly.

Number 1 thing is to make sure you follow the install instructions. My thought is you might have another mod enabled. Check that you only have the 4 ww2 ver3 mods enabled and nothing else.

rhettrongun
Sep 07, 2011, 08:56 PM
I checked the download myself and tried to do a fresh install. I ran into a problem where the game didn't recognize parts 3 and 4 of the mod for some reason. So it only installed parts 1 and 2. That might have been what happened to you as well.

Here is a solution: Go to your MODS folder and locate the files that did not install in game. They will appear as civ5mod files, but are just storage files that can be extracted manually via a winzip type program.
For me it was
"WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 3 of 4 (v 3)"
&
"WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 4 of 4 (v 3)"

Create a folder for each file and name them whatever you want (I just copied and pasted the above names and used those). Open them with your zip program and extract the contents to the corresponding folders you just made.

Now you've manually installed the mod files. Not too complicated I hope. I'll post this in the OP too in case others have the same problem. I might go ahead and just consolidate the 4 files down into 2. One for xml/maps and the other for all the art.

puyolazo
Sep 08, 2011, 12:34 AM
Thank you for your efforts, but I regret to say that the mod is still not working in my computer. I have tested what you have told me, but without success. I have reviewed again all the installation and i am not able to find the errors. In the MOD folder there are the four folders of your mod, and the game has installed the four correctly. I have deleted the cache folder, and I made sure that no mod is active when I load your mod. Honestly, it bothers me enough, because the mod looks great, is the largest I've downloaded, and it shows that it is very elaborate. I will keep trying to fix it, to see if I find the solution. Thank you very much anyway.

gosu
Sep 08, 2011, 01:40 AM
For me the mods all install correctly, but then I get an error when I start a game with the mod:

Assertion failed !
Program: ...
File: c:\buildagent\work\666eee4d7f8a0a92c\bran...\FAarr ay.h
Line:149

Expression i < ARRAY_SIZE

rhettrongun
Sep 08, 2011, 02:25 AM
For me the mods all install correctly, but then I get an error when I start a game with the mod:

Assertion failed !
Program: ...
File: c:\buildagent\work\666eee4d7f8a0a92c\bran...\FAarr ay.h
Line:149

Expression i < ARRAY_SIZE

This is the same crash error that I was getting a couple days ago. It had to do with some of the units on the map conflicting with xml data being loaded. To fix it I had to delete every preplaced old unit I had on the map, reload the mod, and then replace with the new units.

So, I'm guessing there is a problem with the map then. Which is strange too, because I have been using the exact same map I included with the scenario mod and the error doesn't appear for me. For now I can just suggest verifying you're using the correct map. If you have been playing old versions of this mod, then you may have a lot of old map versions sitting in your maps folder. Selecting any of those instead of the new map would indeed give you that error.

Make sure you select the map that says "1939 Axis vs Allies" when you scroll over it. I would recommend deleting all the old maps if this turns out to be what is causing the problem. Hope that helps.

gosu
Sep 08, 2011, 02:45 AM
I am afraid that I used the right map (the one in Part 4 of 4 right?) because I deleted all the old versions of your mod. I tried deleting the cache, but that didn't help too. The old version of the mod did work for me though.

rhettrongun
Sep 08, 2011, 09:41 AM
:confused:I have no idea what the cause might be then. Sounds like you have a bad map, but you're apparently using the right one.
For now I've attached the original map file below if you want to verify it is identical to the one in the mod. To use it, once in the maps folder it will appear as "Full Earth Camp...etc.." instead of starting with WW2 in the map selection. My guess here is maybe something happened to botch the map file's association with the xml.

gosu
Sep 08, 2011, 10:49 AM
Yeah, thatīs exactly the one I'm using, but it seems not to work. But somehow you are right that its a map problem, because it works when I choose another map type.

rhettrongun
Sep 08, 2011, 12:45 PM
Since I haven't seen any mention that the scenario runs properly for anyone, I'll assume this is a universal problem with the files I uploaded. I don't know what has happened, as I continue to see everything work on my end. At least I know it's nothing wrong with the data in the mod.

I think I'll try repackaging the mod into one large single file when I get the chance later. Perhaps when everything is running off the same mod file there is less chance of a bug entering like this.

In the meantime you might try deleting the mods, and manually installing the way I described earlier. To do that just go back to the 4 original files in the zip file you downloaded and extract from those. Perhaps the game did not extract everything perfectly. I only say this because I noticed it completely miss two civ5mod files for me, which I then had to extract manually.

gosu
Sep 08, 2011, 01:34 PM
Tried that but it didn't work :-(

rhettrongun
Sep 08, 2011, 11:09 PM
I think I've fixed the problem causing the crash :). It will take a bit of time to implement, but should be uploaded sometime tomorrow. I'll add in a few balance modifications along with the fix, while I'm uploaded a new version.

EDIT: Key word here is think. I consolidated the mod down into 2 files, and ordered the build order for the xml database updates so that it is more logical for the game. If the crash is solved, then my guess is this will be behind it. The other thing I did was I added in strategic view icons for all the new units. I thought that might be what was causing the trouble, but now I seriously doubt it. I'm in the progress of building the mod now, and should have it uploaded shortly.

gosu
Sep 09, 2011, 09:55 AM
Ok great :-)

rhettrongun
Sep 09, 2011, 03:03 PM
Ok, the new upload is up. It is available for download via mediafire at the link provided near the top of the opening post. I really hope this corrects the crash, because I am at my wits end on what is the problem otherwise.

dlmt3
Sep 09, 2011, 03:04 PM
About to test it, keep in mind I had the same problem gosu had

dlmt3
Sep 09, 2011, 03:17 PM
For me the mods all install correctly, but then I get an error when I start a game with the mod:

Assertion failed !
Program: ...
File: c:\buildagent\work\666eee4d7f8a0a92c\bran...\FAarr ay.h
Line:149

Expression i < ARRAY_SIZE

got it again D:

champ123
Sep 09, 2011, 03:36 PM
For me the mods all install correctly, but then I get an error when I start a game with the mod:

Assertion failed !
Program: ...
File: c:\buildagent\work\666eee4d7f8a0a92c\bran...\FAarr ay.h
Line:149

Expression i < ARRAY_SIZE

got it again D:

I have the same problem

rhettrongun
Sep 09, 2011, 03:56 PM
I moved all my original folders from their locations (except for the animation files) and used the downloadable files to verify it works. Again for me the game starts just fine. I cannot replicate the error here, so I am at a loss [pissed].

I did find a minor bug right away, but no errors. I forgot to give the SM-79/84 the torpedo bomber promotions, which kinda makes them terrible bombers. I've already gone ahead and begun uploading a fix for the bombers.

As far as the crash goes, I'll have to think about what the cause might be for a while longer. The more information you can provide about exactly the process you go through to get the scenario to install/start, the better chance I'll have to figure out what is going wrong. I'm inclined to think there is simply something going wrong with setting up the game, since I wasn't able to replicate the crash even while using the download exclusively to run off.

rhettrongun
Sep 09, 2011, 03:58 PM
I have the same problem

Well, that makes 3 people with this crash and 0 people besides myself who report the scenario as working. *sigh*

Gedemon
Sep 09, 2011, 04:08 PM
do you have units above ID n°255 in the units table ? I'm having the same issue with my mod when I hit the 256 limit.

strange things was that it wasn't working on the earth map, but the europe map was loading. I tested a few change, cleaned IDs (removing vanilla units, dropping and recreating the table), and then it worked again. But as soon as I tried to give an ID > 255 to one unit, even one not on the map, I'have the same message as reported here.

I've no idea why it was working on my PC at one time with some units above id max, then no more...

rhettrongun
Sep 09, 2011, 04:14 PM
It occurred to me that maybe there is a problem with the common resources folder for your civ 5, as this is the only part of the installation that I skipped.

I took snip images of all the relevant folders and the condition they are in for me. They are attached below. Your folders should match mine aside from all those extra mods I have in my MODS folder.

rhettrongun
Sep 09, 2011, 04:16 PM
do you have units above ID n°255 in the units table ? I'm having the same issue with my mod when I hit the 256 limit.

strange things was that it wasn't working on the earth map, but the europe map was loading. I tested a few change, cleaned IDs (removing vanilla units, dropping and recreating the table), and then it worked again. But as soon as I tried to give an ID > 255 to one unit, even one not on the map, I'have the same message as reported here.

I've no idea why it was working on my PC at one time with some units above id max, then no more...

Interesting information. Thanks for the help. It seems to work on my pc for whatever reason then too.

To clarify, yes I do indeed have unit IDs >255 on the unit table.

dlmt3
Sep 09, 2011, 06:27 PM
Well I am slightly tempted to cry. (not really but still)

Any ideas on how to fix it? D:

rhettrongun
Sep 09, 2011, 06:44 PM
Yeah, it's pretty frustrating. I wonder if you can post with an attachment a couple files on here for me. That way I can check to see if they match the ones I have (which I suspect they might not). The files are located at:

C:\Users\owner\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\WWII Full Earth Campaign Part 1 of 2 (v 5)\XML

"Units_Delete.xml" & "Units_3.xml"

Just put them in a zip file if they cannot be posted alone. Both are well within size limits on here.

dlmt3
Sep 09, 2011, 06:58 PM
Well I dont know if this helps, but I cant upload either because they are "invalid files"

rhettrongun
Sep 09, 2011, 07:00 PM
I figured they probably wouldn't load alone. Can you put them in a zip file and load them that way? I know zip files are allowed.

dlmt3
Sep 09, 2011, 07:06 PM
Oh I see...