Civ = Songhai (largest western African empire)
Difficulty = Emperor
All victory conditions are enabled, even the horrid Diplomatic that I consider a loss. However, the only victory condition we will accept is a military one.

Playing
LKendter
Dark Sheer (needs to re-confirm)
Meldor (needs to re-confirm)
Lt. 'Killer' M. (needs to re-confirm)
OPEN SLOT

Re-confirm slots will be held for 48 hours, and then removed from the list.

Don't sign up if you don't have previous experience with HUGE maps
This is PTW based mod.


The following tactics are PROHIBITED:
RoP Rape - if you have to ask...
RoP Abuse (irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, etc.)
Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave
False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end)
Declaring War to break trade deals including actions like the Demand exploit to force a war, or demanding to leave territory.
False Alliances (ally with several people vs. a civ then peace with that civ), and other actions that completely abuse the AI limited diplomacy ability.
Spy exploit - If you fail to plant a spy, you CAN'T try again. The exploit is: you can infinitely plant a spy until the Civ declares war.
Demand exploit - You may make ONE demand a turn per civ. The exploit is: you can demand to the end of time, and guaranteed to get a civ furious and almost to war.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


For information on the changes to the wm check the thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38461

The game will begin as soon as the final test returns positive.

I will confirm. Is this on going to be with random resources? The songhai have to get horses as their number one priority if it is not random. There are only two sources of horses in Africa, no horses, no UU.

Yes, this will be random resources and goodie huts.
I just randomize the world before this post.


Playing
LKendter
Dark Sheer (needs to re-confirm)
Meldor
Lt. 'Killer' M. (needs to re-confirm)
OPEN SLOT

I confirm! I confirm! I confirm!

:mwaha: another world map to run over :D

Playing
LKendter
Dark Sheer (needs to re-confirm)
Meldor
Lt. 'Killer' M.
OPEN SLOT


As soon as we get a fourth, I will post the 40 starting turns -
I will say - I *HATE* barbs

Food overload at Gao - it doesn't need a granary with *2* flood-plains wheat tiles.

Boy, does this sound like fun. But I have no experience with hugh maps...and my experience with huge maps is that I don't have the time to commit. I wish you all much fun in the game, though.

Arathorn

@Arathorn - Picky, picky, picky...

The typo is corrected.

Is this the scenario that has Argentina as a civilization?
It will be an interesting thread to read.

I would like to play if I can.

My commitments (to cfc related things and a job that finishes at 7pm) may mean the 48 hour play time is a little difficult on the later turns if they are mid-week, but if that is the cost of getting in then I will forgo sleep if I need to.

I have plenty huge map experience, but not recently.

Playing
LKendter
Dark Sheer (needs to re-confirm)
Meldor
Lt. 'Killer' M.
anarres


All that is left is for DS to re-confirm - I sent him a pm.

Playing
LKendter
Dark Sheer (needs to re-confirm)
Meldor
Lt. 'Killer' M.
anarres - I like to make sure people are use to the long drag that happens in the late years.


All that is left is for DS to re-confirm - I sent him a pm. It hasn't even been 24 hours yet.

LKender, could you put me down as an alternate in case someone drops out or something please. I have been lurking around the fourm for a a few days now, waiting for a succesion game around my level (monarch-emperor) to start.

I can handle monarch fairly easily. Emperor is usually a tough challenge, but I have played (with varing success) a few emperor games. I always play on Large-Huge maps.

Thanks

@Kazin...go ahead and get your feet wet, Lee doesn't let anyone stray to far from the fold. :hammer:

@Lee... :lol: [dance]

...go ahead and get your feet wet, Lee doesn't let anyone stray to far from the fold.

This I know is true first hand :lol:

Good luck to all you World Map players I know you all spent a lot of time on this one and I am sure it will be a great read !

Hotrod

@Meldor / Hotrod0823 :rolleyes:

============================


4000 BC - The random resources have been kind - flood-plains wheat by the capital.
Gao is formed popping a hut for pottery. :)
Research is begun on writing at token pace.

3750 BC - Welcome to emperor - 20% luxury tax in place.

3550 BC - We have ivory very close to the capital.

3400 BC - Gao with 2 flood-plains wheat is growing so fast, I switch warrior to settler. I think city #2 will supply the troops.

3150 BC - We are up to an oppressive 50% luxury tax - I can't wait to connect that Ivory.

3050 BC (I) - Disease strikes the city of Gao.

3000 BC (I) - The second round of disease, and we don't even rate on the most advanced list.

2950 BC - Our warrior finds an empty village.

2900 BC - Timbuktu is formed, and orders a warrior - this will be our early military source.

2800 BC - Barbs destroy our warrior exploring in the south. :(

2310 BC - We are next to our third goody hut. I will wait a turn or two until the next warrior is ready.

2270 BC - We pop the third goody hut and the angry barbs show up.

2190 BC - Unreal another warrior dies to emperor level barbs :mad:
(I) We complete writing, and start on Map Making.

2150 BC - Jenne is formed, and also orders a warrior. We really got screwed on a good exploring start with 2 dead warriors.


Summary - Gao is a major league settler factory - doesn't even need a granary with **two** flood-plains wheat.
The other cities need warrior to help deal with barbs, and to explore.
We need a coastal city to build a galley.
I am doing a typical tight build - 3 spaces away is fine.

This is PTW; we don't have to get every contact instantly.

The General Songhai plan:
1) First to contact the Zulu, hopefully exclusive and contact trading.
2) Contact Egypt and try to get past for further contact.
3) First ships to America.


LKendter
Anarres (Currently playing)
Anarres - you can do 20 turns, as no contacts yet.

Meldor (on deck)
Dark Sheer (needs to re-confirm)
Kazin (alternate if DS doesn't confirm by the time Meldor is done)
Lt. 'Killer' M.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39-2150BC.zip

Our starting cities, and our exploring directions - only the Zulu path is in progress.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-242.jpg

I didn't realise I was up. What about Dark Seer, Meldor and Killer? They were all above me in the list.

I am gone soon until tomorrow night (9pm GMT), but if this game is still here I will take it.

nice! I was a bit shocked reading '3 tiles away' until I realized you meant '3 tiles in between' :lol:

as anarres says he can't grab the game right now I'll take it and be done in about 1 h.

preturn: mm Jenne to speed warrior (4 instead of 10). Rest is fine.

(1) 2110 BC - Warrior in Timbuktu, as a 2nd barb appears from north I leave town on warrior for now and move new unit to counter st barb.
Caution! I turned 'cancel for enemy units' off! Otherwise, the bar would make our worker stop now as he will move into sight!.
(2) 2070 BC - kill barb with 1 HP left, another barb is next to that which I couldn't see. Also a hut.

(3) 2040 BC - barb moves away :confused: Good for us! Rest Warrior to heal in case barb comes back, I want cover for the worker. mm Jenna for food. mm Timbuktu to Warrior in 1, costs 1 food 1 gold in Gao.

(4) 1990 BC - Warrior in Jenna and Timbuktu, mm both back. Both stay on Warrior for exploration purposes.
(5) 1950 BC - Barb promots Gaos defender.
settler from Gao, warrior ordered. Healed Warrior fortified in the open as barb approaches.

Consider Granary for Gao.

@Killer - Please no more JUMPING OUT OF PLACE! Please do NOT Play yet.

I change from the sign up order to pace out the players familiar with this world map. I hope you see this in time, and we wait for Anarres. I don't want to have to redo the player order.

I didn't catch Killer in time :(

I really don't want to be a hard-lined pita, but jumping from 5th to 2nd is absurd.

If this happens again, I will have to be nasty about it and invalidate the turn. Swapping one player is ok, but this is absurd.

New player order due to killers impatience :mad:
LKendter
Lt. 'Killer' M. (Currently playing)
Anarres (on deck)
Dark Sheer (needs to re-confirm)
Kazin (alternate if DS doesn't confirm by the time Meldor is done)
Meldor

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

OK, but he's gone over the 48h probably he just told me

cancel my turns.

anarres: you are up.

Lee: you should have told why this order (which, btw, spaces the game out due to time zones if I remember locations correctly)

Originally posted by LKendter
I didn't catch Killer in time :(



btw: I checked to see if you were online so I could ask you 10 minutes ago before I started but you didn't show :(

Would it have been so bad to swap us two this one time? You know anarres and his qualities, you can pretty much stick him anywhere, too........ Or did oyu want me flanked by experienced players? In that case I apologize :blush:

anarres: you are up.

Lee: you should have told why this order (which, btw, spaces the game out due to time zones if remember locations correctly)

Sorry, I have to agree I messed up on that one. I wanted to space out the players familiar with playing on this map. I have slots 1,3,5 with players use to the LK world. #2 is not familiar, and if DS doesn't confirm (less then 48 hours to go), then #4 will not be familiar.


btw: I checked to see if you were online so I could ask you 10 minutes ago before I started but you didn't show

Would it have been so bad to swap us two this one time? You know Anarres and his qualities, you can pretty much stick him anywhere, too........ Or did you want me flanked by experienced players? In that case I apologize

My dial-up ISP for when I am on the road changed the rules and limited how much I am on each month. I can no longer stay on-line on night - cheap @!@$!#%!

This is the first time I have ever played a SG with Anarres - I have no clue on his qualities.

If I swapped you and Anarres, then it would be Anarres (5th), Me (1st), and then Anarres (2nd). I don't think any player should play that close together in turns.

hehe. Sorry about the mess-up. :blush:

I tried to post in time for you too see as well LK, but was too late. I saw Killer on msm and explained that I couldn't take it for 24 hours, and asked what was best to do. I was also confused about the order.

LK - what is the best way to get in touch? I use msm but it is not to everyone's taste. Do you get PM notification? If so I will PM you next time...

Oh yeah, I will take the game tonight. Should I replay the turns Killer has done?

anarres: I think you should replay, let'S see what Lee says. But in that phase of the game so much depends on whther you build a warrior or not, whether you lose one to barbs or not that having someone do 5 then hadn it off is not good IMO.

Lee: no sweat, I see your reasoning. I didn't think about the fact that anarres would then, when rotated back, follow himself practically immeadiately - doh!

anarres. you will have to replay, I just found I saved over the turns. I save at the beginning and end of each turn, using the smae name (so I cannot reload far back if I screw up but can correct slip of the mouse mistakes), and I saved over this game with another one.

Despite having played huge maps, can someone tell me if there is anything I should be aware of with this specific map?

Since this is a mod I can load it in the editor and check it out, but maybe there is some useful bit of info that I may miss, so if anyone has any helpful hints about this map I would be grateful.

the barbs are baaaaad! A lot of camps and remember, uprising everywhere when we change ages (well, that one's off for a while, too).

Follow Lees directions for contacts, and do NOT be surprised when all of Eurasia knows each other already!

Originally posted by anarres
hehe. Sorry about the mess-up. :blush:

I tried to post in time for you too see as well LK, but was too late. I saw Killer on msm and explained that I couldn't take it for 24 hours, and asked what was best to do. I was also confused about the order.

LK - what is the best way to get in touch? I use msm but it is not to everyone's taste. Do you get PM notification? If so I will PM you next time...

Oh yeah, I will take the game tonight. Should I replay the turns Killer has done?


1) Yes, I do get PM notification. I don't use any messenger service. If you will be a while, I will swap you with the 3rd player in turn order - not the 5th.

2) Replay Killer turn based on his comments.


3) Sorry at all for the order confusion - the PERMANENT planned order:

LKendter
Anarres (Currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Dark Sheer (needs to re-confirm)
Kazin (alternate if DS doesn't confirm by the time Meldor is done)
Lt. 'Killer' M.

@Killer: Thx for the advice.

@LKendter: No problemo, I can play tonight. If that's not soon enough then let meldor go first, but it's only 8 hours away so I can't see a problem.

2 (hopefully) final questions:
- Do I play 10 or 20 turns? I will asume 20 unless I hear otherwise as you said it post #15.
- Does mm mean micro-manage? If so, is that not a requirement for these games anyway?

Thanks again for your patience, I will get the hang of it soon ;)

Does mm mean micro-manage?
YES


Do I play 10 or 20 turns?
20 for you ONLY since trading hasn't started. With this being a World game and Fra, Ger, Rus, Gre, Bab, Egy, Per, and Zul likely for quick contact - trading will get intense quickly.
With Worker buying on the table (and encouraged), and wm trading very profitable early on we need people in the trading screen alot.
Now what we need is a port city for a couple of galleys to go exploring for more wm revenue and first contact with America :)


After your turn I will decide if Meldor gets 20.

anarres: I said mm explicitly where usefull, i.e. where -1 food gives a unit 1 turn earlier, so that you all take note of these cases. I expect everyone to check for themselves, but one might overlook something. If you read about it you're less likely to miss it, even if it only is a 1% risk to begin with! ;)

HELP!!

I have the LKWorld-V9N.bix, and the SETUP-UNITS3.bat batch file, but can not find where to download the units.

I have been looking for ages in vain, I don't even know what forum it is in. I am desperate to play...

Your don't need the .bix - that isn't the issue.

Installation instructions:
All players should run the unit setup file!
Drop the batch file SETUP-UNIT3.bat under the directory:
C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Art\units
Run it to will create the needed new units.

Really sorry about that :rolleyes:

If I had looked at the file closer I would have realised I didn't need anything else...

I have the save and am playing...

Originally posted by LKendter
Your don't need the .bix - that isn't the issue.

Installation instructions:
All players should run the unit setup file!
Drop the batch file SETUP-UNIT3.bat under the directory:
C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Art\units
Run it to will create the needed new units.


I'm confused, is it a mod you guys are playing? I thought it was just a WM. :confused:

It is a mod only in that some of the civs were moved and re-named. For instance, Agentina, Austrilia, and the Songhai. The change in name and location also required a UU that is better tied to the new civ. Because the UUs for the new civs, you need to have unit folders for them so the game can determine what animations to use. It will not effect you normal civ3/ptw game play. These are additional units, not replacements.

I replayed Killers moves, so the first 5 moves are the same as his.

preturn: mm Jenne to speed warrior (4 instead of 10). Rest is fine.

(1) 2110 BC - Warrior in Timbuktu, as a 2nd barb appears from north I leave town on warrior for now and move new unit to counter st barb.
Caution! I turned 'cancel for enemy units' off! Otherwise, the bar would make our worker stop now as he will move into sight!.
(2) 2070 BC - kill barb with 1 HP left, another barb is next to that which I couldn't see. Also a hut.

(3) 2040 BC - barb moves away Good for us! Rest Warrior to heal in case barb comes back, I want cover for the worker. mm Jenna for food. mm Timbuktu to Warrior in 1, costs 1 food 1 gold in Gao.

(4) 1990 BC - Warrior in Jenna and Timbuktu, mm both back. Both stay on Warrior for exploration purposes.

(5 - Killer) 1950 BC - Barb promots Gaos defender.
settler from Gao, warrior ordered. Healed Warrior fortified in the open as barb approaches.

----

(5 - anarres) 1950 BC
Unlike Killer, I didn't get a promotion from the barb attacking me. Weird, I must have dome something in a slightly different order :hmm:
Decided to go for the barb and killed it.
Gao Warrior sent NE to Egypt
Gao set to settler for the moment until I can decide.
Timbuktu warrior sent to NW over river to go north to Europe.
Jenne warrior NW towards other cities
Settler south over river. I will build a city to the SW on the river, 3 squares W and 1 square NW of Timbuktu.

(6) 1910 BC
Yet another warrior approaches from the west, next to our warrior. Fortify warrior.
Move Timbuktu warrior, settler and worker on to wheat square just outside the Timbuktu border.
The new city cill make this our land so the wheat should be ready.
Jenne warrior diverted west to explore for resources and help kill any barbs.
mm Timbuktu for warrior

(7) 1870 BC
Warrior on way to egypt sees goodie hut.
Warrior with settler heads west and pops goodie hut. We get a tech! - warrior code.
Feeling lucky, I attack the barb with the other warrior in the west and lost a regular to a conscript :mad:. It's not too bad as the barb has 1HP and I have the other warrior next to it.
I take a small calculated risk and move the settler west on to the same square as the warrior, next to the 1HP barb, as he will surely die next turn and the settler needs to go that way.
Jenne warrior carries on west.
mm Jenne and Timbuktu for food.

(8) 1830 BC
Warrior takes out 1HP barb.
Settler moves west to new city location next to cattle, and with 2 wheat on plains nearby. I feel a second settler factory coming on :D
Send warrior to square 1 south of Timbuktu to build road to Jenne
Warrior from Jenne sees yet another barb on mountain to west.
2 new warriors at Jenne and Timbuktu. Timbuktu warrior fortified. It can stay for 1 turn to avoid lux slider and then it can head north to Europe.
Jenne warrior sent NE, the land looks very promising with 2 visible cattle and one wheat quite close by.
Change Gao production to worker. I have decided against a granary as there are only 4 decent tiles around, and a granary would push the size up quite high and take far too long.
mm Jenne for production, set to warrior. mm Tinbuktu for food, set to warrior. mm Gao for food.
Warrior en route to Egypt pops goodie hut - deserted.
I just saw an Egyptian warrior :)
Egypt has no money, but these techs: Masonry, The Wheel, Mysticism and Masonry
And contact with: Persians, Babs, Greeks, French, Russians and Mongols.
We only have Writing to offer, but Egypt won't even give bronze working for it. The discount he is getting for 7 contacts is huge.
It is a tough choice whether to sell writing or not, but in the end I decide not, as the Zulu's are lass than 10 squares away, and the warrior en route to Egypt can go north now to meet maybe Spain, France, and Greece before heading past egypt (maybe...). The med is only 10 squares away as well. Once we have made some more contacts we will be in a much better postion to buy and sell, and maybe broker with the Zulus. Another (but smaller) factor for me is that if we give Egypt writing it will enable them to get lots of contacts very quickly and maybe get an advantage. As our nearest civ I don't think we should encourage them.

(9) 1790 BC Koumbi Saleh is founded :). This city has 1 cattle and 2 wheat all on plains. This baby is crying out settler factory. Set production to granary.
All warriors continue exploring
mm Gao for food. worker and pop in 2 turns.

(10) 1750 BC Set worker to irrigate new wheat tile for Timbuktu.
Barb has reappeard on mountain in west. Move one of our warriors there on to adjacent mountain. Fortify warrior on forest 1 square SW of Koumbi Saleh.
Timbuktu produces warrior. I have left this warrior in Timbuktu so that the next player can decide which way to sent him.

I decided to do only 10 turns as I met the Egyptions, and I need to go to bed. :sleep:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK37.040.gif
Zoomed out map of current empire

To summarise:

We have a new city, Koumbi Saleh. It is set up perfectly for a settler factory. I would suggest keeping Gao as a settler/worker factory as well. It can never hurt to have too many of them, and so early in the game can provide a massive population boost.

The Egyptions still don't have Writing, if we can meet the Zulus and some European civs as well we should be in a much better position to by some contacts, then buy some techs.

There is nice land to the east, this is currently being explored. There are also warriors heading towards Europe, to the west, and to the Zulus.


Feedback would be appreciated as this is my first SG and so hints on how to play more communally or on my reporting style are very welcome.

Uh, save game please.
Do you know how to use the upload feature?

=========================

The General Songhai plan:
1) First to contact the Zulu, hopefully exclusive and contact trading.
2) Contact Egypt and try to get past for further contact.
3) First ships to America.

Can we get lucky and Egypt sell contact with us?

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor (Currently playing)
Dark Sheer (on deck) (needs to re-confirm with 24 hours, or Kazin is playing)
Kazin (alternate if DS doesn't confirm by the time Meldor is done)
Lt. 'Killer' M.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Sorry, I almost went to bed without posting the save...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.1750_BC.zip

Got it

1750 BC (Pre-turn)
GAo is building a worker to bring it down to size 1? this is bad as it takes too long for it to grow again. Swap it to build a temple and move warrior form Timbuktu in that direction. Gao should not be allowed to go below pop3 again. Timbuktu is building another warrior, I change this to a temple, both to give time to grow and get the pop up to be able to be a true settler factory. Koumbi Saleh is building a granary but it was three bonus food sources within its range and several floodplains. This is changed to an archer to slag some barb camps with. Jenne is building a warrior, I leave this as it will come in handy for MP duty. We have an over abundance of improved tiles at Timbuktu and none at Koumbi Saleh. We are many turns from MM.

1725 BC (1)
Gao grows one but the MP warrior arrives just in time. This is emp level and we get no free happy people. Warrior headed for the Zulu turns back slightly to pick up goodie hut.
(I) Jenne builds its warrior and starts an archer.

1700 BC (2)
Pop goodie hut and get nasty barbs.
(I) Warrior survives tow barb attacks with 1 HP and promotes. Third baeb wanders off. Egyptian warrior appears outside Gao. Good thing it isn't empty.

1675 BC (3)
Southern warrior rests before continuing on. Buy fine worker from Egypt for 112 and send it towards Koumbi Saleh.

1650 BC (4)
Gao grows again and the lux slider is moved to 10%.
(I) Xeres come a calling with Bronze working for 180g, I tell him no thanks as we should be known to every one but South America and Austrilia in a few turns. That will drop the price on thing considerably.

1625 BC (5)
I notice that Xeres has writing and Cleo doesn't. She will have it soon enough so She gets writngs and 55g for Bronze Working and The Wheel. We ahve horses within range of Timbuktu. Thank the resource RnG for that. Spot Zulu border to the south. Almost to the Med to the north.
(I) Gao completes its temple and starts a spear. Koumbi completes an archer and starts a spear.

1600 BC (6)
Find goodie hut and barb camp to the west. Barb horse appears from the NW. Get a step closer to the Zulu but no contact yet.
(I) Horse attacks Gao, warrior promotes.

1575 BC (7)
Pop goodie hut to the west and get a settler!. Pinkish border spotted to the north.
(I) Timbuktu finishes a temple and starts a spear. The Australians complete the Colossus! What devilish things did you do to them Lee?

1550 BC (8)
Warrior ignores barb camp for now and escorts settler to its new home. Alphabet for Iron working and 132g from Shaka. The Wheel get Mysticism and 128g (all he had). We can trade contact with the Zulu for more tech, but I will wait a little. We have iron near Jenne.
(I) Jenne build an archer and starts a barracks.

1525 BC (9)
Walata is formed on the coast by a river and pops the barb camp at the same time. The warrior fortifies as the barb won't be happy we stole his tents. It starts a spear. Still no contact from the pink border, will wait one more turn.
(I) Gao build a spear and switchs to a settler. We need more shield there for sure.

1500 BC (10)
No new contacts. I leave the choice of what to do with the northern warrio to the next person.

At this point we can sell contact to the Zulu to everyone and probably get all contacts and catch up in tech. This I also defer to the next person.
Gao is set to grow to 6 in 5 and produce a settler on the same turn. There is a worker on the way to improve one more tile for more shields.

LK39 1500 BC Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39-1500BC.zip)

1575 BC (7)
Pop goodie hut to the west and get a settler!. Pinkish border spotted to the north.
(I) Timbuktu finishes a temple and starts a spear. The Australians complete the Colossus! What devilish things did you do to them Lee?


Free settler - never argrue with those [dance]

The only thing I did to Australia is give them a second worker / settler to get a stronger start. It sounds like it worked. ;)


The General Songhai plan:
1) Trade like crazy, at least every other turn.
2) First ships to America.

Sound like we have entered the heavy trading phase.
Once mapmaking is done the money will be rolling ;)

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor
Kazin (currently playing) **
Lt. 'Killer' M. (on deck)

** Kazin is in, as DS missed my deadline of posting by the time Meldor plays.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Originally posted by LKendter
The General Songhai plan:
1) Trade like crazy, at least every other turn.
2) First ships to America.

Sound like we have entered the heavy trading phase.
Once mapmaking is done the money will be rolling ;)

Some thoughts since it was so late before I got finished.

1) We can get contact with everyone else and tech parity with everyone else with the sell of contact to the Zulus alone. Start trading contact with the Zulus to those who will give contact with someone else and some small amount of cash. Then move to the next one. You will probably find some of the AI who do not have contact with each other yet. This is the trade you need to sell them contact with the other one for tech that we don't have. Some of them may not have writing as yet, use that for extra contacts and techs as well. Once we know everyone it will make things a lot cheaper.
2) No one has Map Making yet (the tech we are researching) as the cost of it is still max. Hopefully that will be the case when you finish trading contacts and tech. Going after this tech will allow us to be the first to get galleys oout and exploring. This makes our maps worth more and gives us the chance to have the first contact with both Australia and the Americas. More exclusive trading.

We have a bunch of money right now because the tech we are researching is a 40 turn tech no matter what (unless we find someone with it already). The city I settled is on the coast, so when we get close, start a prebuild for a galley so we can get it to America faster.

As for the placement of the next settlers, we should now rapidly expand toward the eastern coast. We have a natural dessert barrier to the north and jungle to teh south, but we need to grab all those bonus food and water locations before the Egyptians can. The good news is that we have plenty of horses and iron. We should be able to connect these up and make a lot of money off of them if we can get trade routes to the rest. Also, there is a nice fertile area on the northwest tip that we should grab as well before the Europeans ran out of room. But please, do not let the population drop in the core cities again. I spent most of my turns getting the pop back up to were it should be. We should now be able to build settlers every 5 or so turns and still keep the pop above 4. We will have threee cities capable of producing settlers and workers so we should hit a rapid expansion phase.

Be careful of the barbs. do not let the camps hang around. We want our settlers to be safe.

A couple more things.....

Buying workers is still a good deal.
Once we can sell maps, we should use that to generate extra income.
I know it is a big pain, but on this map with this many civs things change rapidly. You have to do a diplo check every turn. That also increases the chance we can buy workers.

thoughts:

1) I wouldn't blame anarres for letting the pop go low. w/o at least 1 lux there's too much loss from luxury tax or entertainers.
Things change one you have that one lux, so from now on we should stay on high pop in the core, as meldor says!

2) be carefull trading lux/res to Europe - Egypt will control that and we get the blame if they go to war with either a civ in between or us or our trading partner!

Originally posted by meldor
But please, do not let the population drop in the core cities again. I spent most of my turns getting the pop back up to were it should be.The reason I was going to produce a worker from Gao is that we really needed another one, and I thought that Koumbi Saleh would make an excellent settler factory, so it was busy building a granary. Also, size 2 was max for Gao without any police units or lux slider. I would not have kept it small, just wanted the extra worker. The settler Gao built before the worker was queued was used to build Koumbi Saleh, itself a better location than Gao.

I personally would have kept Koumbi Saleh as a settler factory and nothing else as it has the potential to pump settlers every 4 to 5 turns. I prefer building granaries in any city that is producing workers or settlers, and so I try to have dedicated settler factories and dedicated unit-producing cities. I tend not to build settlers in unit-producing cities when they get too big, instead I manage the tiles so that there is max production and no growth when it is the desired size.

I am new to SG's, and am not familiar with the do's and don'ts. If these kinds of issues have been resolved in the many SG games people here have participated in, please let me know. I am more than ready to accept criticism, but I need more information on why what I have done is wrong if I am to change, as this is my normal playing style.

It was really fun to play, and I can see myself becoming addicted to SG games, but more feedback on the style of play would be appreciated if it is not currently what you want. :)

anarres: I would have built a Granry in Gao, too, then getting a spear and a settler every 15 turns from it with. 2 police it wouldn't have needed lux in any form them. But that's playing style differences, and I agree fully on you decision with the worker. Gao grows so fast that it is worth it, especially as we will soon be short on workers once we start taking all the lands to the east.

I think meldors comment was less criticism and more warning for the future, as things change with the lux we get ;)

Everyone plays cities differently - with 2 floodplains wheat (food heavy and shield poor) I would also run the capital to size 1. This city can grow back to size 3 very fast - we need at least 2 cities building settlers so that we can push toward the med area, toward the Zulu and the spice area, and toward the nice area in the Atlantic.

Koumbi Saleh is an excellent choice for a granary and settlers, as plains wheat has shield and cow plains have shields.

I like the fact that we start have the exclusive on map-making. If we are the first there - probably my turn :) - we can get a lot from the map including probably all of the missing techs. Of course, if Killer doesn't do it first ;)



We may want to make Gao a WORKER factory. It will quickly grow, claim the mined plains, and start the cycle again. We can always us more workers. I granary in Gao will be brutal, as we will need a lot of effort to get 60 shields from that city.

I didn't feel bad about what meldor said, it's just that I dont want to f**k the game up in any way, remember I'm just a noobie at this.

I said what I did so that I could get advice for the future, and I apologise to meldor if the last post sounded a bit defensive, I know he wasn't having a go.

Can't wait for my next turn :D

I did not mean the pre-turn comments to mean that you made bad choices, they just were not the choices I would have made at that time. In general, my choices for building up any city are to try and balance the the amount of food and shields to meet what the city can do at that time. Once we get a decent government our cities will be even more unbalanced towards food.

I think it is better early on to use the lux slider instead of keeping the pop low. Gao's limiting factor for growth is shields not food. While it is true that Gao can quickly get back to 3 pop from 1 it can't build anything while it is doing that. With a low level of population, it must either produce shileds or produce food. With the higher pop level it can produce shields and food. With the population up it should be able to produce a settler every 5 turns, even without the granary. That would take at least twice as long at the lower pop levels. I think I proved to myself in QSC1 that taking the extra few turns to get the pop up pays off in the long run. Commerce is not our main problem right now. We have plenty of income. We can afford to keep the lux slider on 10-20% for a long time if it means getting settlers out sooner.

I have no objection to the a granary in KS, its just that it again has more food than shields to start with. The granary multipoes food but does nothing for shields. The temple allows it to pull in more landed that can be improved to give it more shields. Then the granary can be built quicker and do more for us as the shield production will match better.

AS for trading with the Europeans powers, we need to establish our own routes to Europe through our own harbors on the Med. If we do that and maybe a city somewhere in England, we eliminate the chance that one civ can cut us off (if unintentionally) with our trading partners. I would like to see us with cities and harbors on all three coasts before the expansion grab is over. There are alos wines to the east that would be nice to have as well. Two native luxes are better than one of course.

meldor: exactly what i meant: be wary dealing until the routes are secure. I wasn't thinking so far ahead as a completed harbor for both us and the AIs on the med ;)

On the question of luxuries - don't forget that at least one spice spotted down south :)

We have a huge amount of good spots to get, so multiple settlers sources is a good thing. Plus, we know from the map layout that we want the little island in the Atlantic. Hey, if we hold map making maybe we can be the first in England :lol:

OK, now that I'm actually in, LK, could you give me a link to download the need files please.

The links to the files are in the LK World updates thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=38461
or you can use these:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LKWorld-V9N.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/SETUP-UNITS3.zip

Kazin: see above!

there are the links and the instructions!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38461

here you can find the *.bat file!

Don't forget:


Installation instructions:
All players should run the unit setup file!
Drop the batch file SETUP-UNIT3.bat under the directory:
C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Art\units
Run it to will create the needed new units.

Got it.

1) King Kazin ascends to the throne. I trade 250 gold and contact with the Zulu to Xerses for contact with the Russians, Chinese, Mongols and French.

2) Koumbi Saleh and Timbuktu complete spearmen. Koumbli Saleh starts a temple to let it grow before it starts producing settlers /workers. Timbuktu starts a settler. Gao micromanaged to produced a settler faster. Buy contact with the Germans and India for 20 and 25 gold respectively. I notice that India has Horseback Riding and the Zulu need it. I trade 200 gold to India for Horseback Riding, then trade that to the Zulu for Masonry. We are now at full tech parity with everyone, even ahead of some. Also, NO ONE else has contact with the Zulu, this make us their only trading source for now, we must use it like I did with that two for one tech deal .

3) Thought about starting the Pyramids, but realizing that we have no chance at getting them. All the civs had masonry, which leads me to believe that it was discovered a while ago. Thus, having no pre-build, we wouldn't have a change at getting it.


4) France and Persia had discovered Philosophy, no point in buying it now, as no one else has anything to trade for it.

5) There are four spices to the north of us, this must be a priority.

6) Settler produced it Gao, set to Oracle as a pre-build for the Great Library. Popped a hut, warriors :(

7) Temple produced it Koumbi Saleh, starts on worker. The settler from Gao is going to swing by Koumbi Saleh and hook up with the warrior currently on mp duty there. The pair will then head up to the spices.

8) Nothing

9) That spice down south turns out to only be one. Pop a goodie hut, more warriors :(

10) Iron is hooked up. Notice that the Babs have Map making and no one else except Persia has it. They want 500 gold for it, but I decide it is worth it. Then I trade Map making to Joan for Philosophy, WM, and 40 gold. That's 2 techs, a WM, and 40 gold for 500 gold. Not bad.

P.S. : I think I played a few extra turns at the start, but I forgot to keep track, sorry :o


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/lk39-1200_bc.sav

Where is the save file?

got it.

will look at it, but I don't think i will ba able to play. Will know more tomorrow evening, if I can play I'll post so.

@Killer
Please CANCEL the Oracle. I will not get past my turn no matter what. This will cost us multiple cities, which are much more important to get our powerbase.


10) Iron is hooked up. Notice that the Babs have Map making and no one else except Persia has it. They want 500 gold for it, but I decide it is worth it. Then I trade Map making to Joan for Philosophy, WM, and 40 gold. That's 2 techs, a WM, and 40 gold for 500 gold. Not bad.

Please limit future tech trading till more people have the tech. $500 is way high to an ancient age tech. We could have gotten it in 10 more turns for pennies.

Killer - if you play, you need a massive pre-turn map making sesion. Once the tech is out there, we need to get into heavy map selling, and switch our coastal city to galley ASAP.

Sorry about those two :(

A little more detail on the Great Library -

On the world map game, the tech pace is SLOW during the ancient and early middle ages. This is when the library will get it's use. We are already rolling in cash, so it is NO problem at all to keep pace in the early game. Give me the choice of 10+ settlers, or the GL and there is NO question which one will win.


On map making - we had a 40 turn minimum science almost completed. We were due map mapmaking in 10 turns. This is why I said pennies in 10 turns.

I got a chance to look at the game - switch Gao to Granary due in just 5 turns.

I can play this late tonight, so let me know by then Killer.
I get to play mega trading round, which we need to rebuild cash.
I love the trade happy rounds ;)

sory, something came up. Lee can we two switch? I started playing but never got paste the first go-around on the trade screen before I was stopped :(

OK - Get a great pre-turn trading round.
You should be able to get a fortune from the wm ;)

Also, get the other cow / wheat city on a granary.

Lee?

Weird - How did I not see the message between posts?

I got it.


It did take a bit to figure out the confusing "Lee?" until I read the last page again.

@Kazin - Please save the game at the END of the turn.

Worker automation is PROHIBTED - a worker must have been automated - It completed a road 1200BC, then moved next turn.


1200 BC (pre-turn) - I change Gao and Koumbi Saleh to granary, so that we can really pump out settlers soon.
Our lone coastal city is switch to a galley.
We really need some cities building military, so I switch Timbuktu to a barracks.

I begin the massive trading session (mainly maps) with $41, and end with $571.
The only civ left with any cash is Babylon - I just couldn't drain $500 plus from him.

1175 BC - This is why I obsess about trading maps when playing the world - we gain $47, while we are making just $22 a turn.

1125 BC - OUCH, I found a second automated worker.
(I) Russia completed the Oracle.

1100 BC - Several civs have math - did it appear from a hut?
I still double our income thanks to improved maps.

1075 BC - Sokoto is formed along the coast, so it orders a galley. We want to explore those seas.
How did India suddenly get 3 techs above us?
We get to purchase a Russian worker - you can never have enough workers this early on.

1050 BC - Once again, I almost double our income with selling our map.

1000 BC (I) - I decide to skim a worker from Koumbi Saleh before more settlers - we badly need more workers.

975 BC - Gao has gotten to large, luxuries forced to 20%.

950 BC - Gwandu is formed - we have the city of wines [dance].
An immediate temple is ordered, as we are close to France.
I dropped luxuries back to 10% - it looks like we are going to play the moving luxury slider game.
China is nice enough to sell us a worker.

We actually do some tech trading -
I get Polytheism from the Mongols for Map Making, Philosophy, and $10.
I use Polytheism to get Literature from France in an even swap.
I sell Polytheism to China for $130.
I sell Polytheism to Russia for Math and $115.
Nobody else has enough to offer, however I can't argue with us being PAID $235 to get 3 new techs. :)

Summary - Send the Galley from Walata north - to Spain, England, Ireland, Greenland and finally America - I love first contacts.

With the techs we have keep an eye out to buy a worker with a tech.


LKendter
Anarres (on deck)
Meldor
Kazin
Lt. 'Killer' M. (currently playing)

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39-950BC.zip


The area I really want - count the number of cows. The newest settler is heading that way.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-243.jpg


The other area we can't afford to ignore to long - that many incense is just to good of future trading material.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-244.jpg

got it!


Lee, I edited my post BEFORE you posted, and when it came back after editing you had posted - weird :lol:


How exactly did you trade around? I'd be interested in knowing *your* style. I'd have sold known techs (Writing, Philo) first for WM and cash, then gone around trading Map Making and WM (possibly in 2 steps)........

preturn: if you get a game from Lee, you don't have to check around - but I still do. Well, another 4 minutes for nothing ;)

(1) 925 BC - The Babs start the GL. Worker done, order settler. Make note to settle second iron 'soon' (after the other good spots) so we can trade it. Walata gets mmed to give more tax. Galley will be done next turn. Strat roading used forest tiles to get tax bonus. The settler - where to send him? I decide for the tile with the warrior in Lees screenie. the next one can tehn take the forest at the bottom right of the screenie for a 2 plain overlap, getting wheat, cow, another horse and river. Then, along the same line 5 tiles down is the next river with wheat - but that will be a tight thing against Egypt.
Jenne stops using the grassland with the worker on it atm as it gives no bonus. The iron it is now, as this is NOT a growth, but a unit production town.
Timbuktu will grow into unhappiness in 2, I order a settler (3) as we really really really(!) need them atm, especially as we could use one to go on the Galley for an oversses colony.
The two Spearmen go to the cow site and to Sokoto. Next produced will go to Timbuktu

(2) 900 BC - The Galley is done and goes north. Code of Law is known to two, ask WM and 580 - no tx. There's noone with money to sell it to. The mongols popped a hut and can pay WM and 50 for Literature :D Math has spread around - huts again?

(3) 875 BC - France and Mongols start GL - no surprise here. Go waste shields ;) Three Zulus approach a barb camp and we earn 25 Gold. :p --> Shaka!

(4) 850 BC - almost everyone has CoL now, and only Persia doesn't have Lit and would sell CoL for WM, Lit and 270. Barter him down to 220. I decide to take it as we have so much money and will make more with our Galleys. It *is* expensive, but the price will not drop for a while,a s the other civs are behind us and will take long to learn it.

(5) 825 BC - settler from Gao takes escort Spear along to coast near incense.

(6) 800 BC - Brazil(!) completes Pyramids. Cascade to GL and GLight. Another settler in Koumbi. He goes to coast for iron spot (--> trade). buy a worker each from China and Egypt. Soem civs have huge money lying around, Persia e.g., and we cannot sell anything but WM for 9. Arwan is founded and starts a Temple.
(7) 775 BC - nothing. Map trades get a bit better. 120 for worker from Mao is too much atm. He's at war it seems.

(8) 750 BC - again nothing new. WM down to 1 G each for most.

(9) 725 BC - another Galley. Will keep pumping them out in case one or two get sunk by barbs. Skip trading this turn as 2 time 1 is < 4. If we keep up trading WM every turn we will not see more that 1 Gold / turn usually. every 2nd gives chance at more in my experience. This changes when we discover new areas though (soon, GB).

(10) 710 BC - A third Galley, from Sokoto, goes south to discover coast to up map value. I see no point in sending this on norht, too as it would be the third and also is behind because of starting further south.
Hombori founded. No prod assigned as this is my last turn. A horseman from Timbuktu goes east to cover the two new towns.
Segu founded, 1 tile inland and 1 tile overlap but maximizing landgrab and covering iron. WM value is down to TM or 1 Gold for most.



suggestions: workers can build roads along both sides of rivers to spped movements. I already started this, especially the woker next to Goa on floodplain should road it as a settler going south or east from there will otherwise loose 2/3 move right away.

keep the Galleys going!



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39-710BC.zip

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
How exactly did you trade around? I'd be interested in knowing *your* style. I'd have sold known techs (Writing, Philo) first for WM and cash, then gone around trading Map Making and WM (possibly in 2 steps)........


I went down the line starting trying to sell map, and see if they would give wm in return. I did have to give up tech in a couple of spots, but for the most part I got wm and all cash for wm.

Babylon still had cash after I sold it to him, so I kept going back to him after the next person to keep milking him closer to zero. I did get almost $300 from him.

==========================

On turn 10, when I saw the potential trade with Mongols using 2 techs for just 1 - I rechecked the civs to see if money was out there. When I confirmed it - I went back to the Mongols, made the trade. Then I approached every one with cash to see who wanted the tech. Russia giving away math was an unexpected bonus.

Still getting 3 techs and being AHEAD in cash :D

I have some areas that need improvement like dot maps, but trading is one of my better areas. Your challenge - see if you can find a couple more workers for sale - I was happy to add two to our total.

After I post - was building it for several minutes - I catch
buy a worker each from China and Egypt. :)

We will eventually need to connect to incense area and wine town. We have tons of worker tasks to keep out guys busy.
====================================

LKendter
Anarres (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Kazin
Lt. 'Killer' M.

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Got it.

preturn:
Koumbi Saleh mm for food. It will grow in 1 turn, settler still in 2 turns. Hombori set to barracks, I chose between that and granary, but another unit producing city is probably better (especially as it is close to egypt). Segu set to temple to get 3x gold on expansion. Lux slider set back to 0%.

We can afford to let one city get too big and use the scientist insead of the 5 gold per turn we are currntly paying.

AI:
French complete Great Library

(1) 690 BC: Archer just south of Segu is sent east to Sokoto as it is growing in 4 turns. Settler from Gao is sent SE, eventually (hopefully!) to grab the river and wheat tiles just south of the egyptian city El-Amarna

I have decided that I want some more workers. We currently have 4 of our own and 5 foreign workers, but this doesn't seem enough for the job. There is also still plenty of expansion room. I was tempted to build a granary in Hombori or Arwan, but they both need to buid temples to get all the calle and wheat so they may as well build them first. The only other choice is Timbuktu. It is size 5 already, and IMO it is best to keep it below 7 or settlers and workers will cost more if we ever want them from there. With a bit of mm it will build Granary in 8, and expand in 10. With 1 wheat and all plains it should stil be good at producing settlers.

Change Gao to worker next turn. Walata to expand in 2 turns, it will need more happiness, and Kolumbi Saleh can lose a tile and still build settler next turn. Also, raising lux to 10% would not get a happy face in Walata, so I move the spear from Kolumbi Saleh towards Walata, and get a scientist from Kolumbi Saleh. Science slider set to 0%.

120 gold from wm trading :D

AI:
Zulu ask us to leave his territory (I was moving our warrior home)
Chinese complete Great Lighthouse

(2) 670 BC: Settler from Koumbi Saleh sent SE, for another city to the east of Homburi
mm Gao for food, set to settler. Kolumbi Saleh set to settler. Science set back to 10%
51 gold from wm trading.

AI:
Babylon demands 100 gold. I give in because Babylon is 7 moves away if he has an ROP with Egypt. I don't want to take the risk, but normally I would have done so. Make a mental note, Babylon must suffer for this later.

(3) 650 BC: Gwandu builds warrior and now has 2, so I set to worker
Spear from Jenna east to new cities locaion
28 gold from wm trading. I am going to switch to every 2 turns, but I will still check diplo every turn for workers.

(4) 630 BC: Agadez built for incense. Here was the settler in turn 1:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.02.01.jpg

The black dot and the red dot are the two locations I had to choose from for the incense city. The blue dot is a future city (with 2 whales). I chose the red spot for the incense city for the two plains tiles and to support Gwandu.
mm Kolum Saleh for food

(5) 619 BC: Walate builds another Galley. Set to harbor. Sokoto is now producing Galleys and a harbour would be good for trade. Galley sent to North. Spear from Arwan now goes with settler that is going east.
mm Gao for scientist, it is now size 5. mm Koumbi Saleh for shields. Science to 0%.
78 gold for wm. Pay 116 for worker fro Russia.

(6) 590 BC: Arwan builds temple. Change to barracks. Lots of minor things, but nothing of note.

(7) 570 BC: Gwandu produces worker, set to barracks. Jenne produces another spear, sent east again, left on spear.
mm Gao, Timbuktu for food, mm Koumbi Saleh for happinss instead of lux slider, it can still build settler in 1.
109 gold from wm trades. China has Currency.

(8) 550 BC: Gao produces settler, switch to worker. Koumbi Saleh produces settler, switch to barracks as it is size 2. Sokoto is finally connected by road. Our settlers are heading east, but the egyptians are blocking us off. We have 2 settlers en route to the east but egypt will beat us :mad: I am trying to block with a horse and a spear, but it is only slowing him down marginally.
We have lost our scientist at Gao, so set science to 10%.

(9) 530 BC: Timbuktu produces granary, switch to worker.
85 from wm trading. Mongols and French both got currency this turn, but still ultra expansive. Worker from Zulu for Literature, nearly everyone has it now. Bought worker from China for 108 gold.

(10) 510 BC: Hombori builds temple, set to barracks. Warrior returning from the Zulu kills barb camp for gold.
mm Timbuktu for happiness, get scientist, set slider to 10%. mm Segu for happiness, get taxman. This is only for 2 turns until a connecting road is built.


Summary

Arwan is set to granary, but barracks may be better now the Egytpians are cutting off some nice land to the east. There are 4 settlers heading east. The Egyptians are in our potential territory to the east. The Egyptian settler is in the square to the NE of our selected archer:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.02.10.east2.jpg

He just moved there last turn from one square west, so I doubt if he will move back there this turn. I was planning a city on the square with the archer in, but you may need to head further south now.

I would reccommend preparing for war, with lots(!) more workers, as Egypt has some very nice land to take. I recently got a Forbidden Palace popup, so an FP may be worth considering, maybe even in Hombori?

There are 3 foreign workers roading up to the grape-city Gwandu, also picking up the incense-city Agadez. This will bring 2 more lux's in the next 15 - 20 turns. :)

I have deliberately been heavy on settlers and workers and light on military, as I wanted to grab as much land as possible before the Egyptians took it.


Here is the save: LK_SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.510BC.zip)

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor (currently playing)
Kazin (on deck)
Lt. 'Killer' M.

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

I got a chance to look at the map - our galley is already in Greenland. :)
:crazyeye: Greenland has a patch of DYES! We want to get a settler, escort and a couple of workers up there!

Speaking of luxuries - don't forget that lone spice in Africa - we already have 3 luxuries. I would love to secure one of two more natural luxuries.

I would love to get blue dot - that will be a great fishing village.

The location of Segu
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-246.jpg
We can always use more coastal city - this game requires a lot of shipping. The city would have been better off at either black dot.

Our current ranking
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-247.jpg


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-248.jpg
The black dots are spaces wasted due to placement of Agadez - not much we can do there.
The other needed city near incense is yellow dot - once the borders expand we will control all 4 incense :)

I see it but can't play until tomorrow night.

@LK:

I agree about Segu, I would have put it on the coast, but it would have been a close call for me. I agree that the yellow dot in the first picture will be a good coastal city.

Agadez placement was more important to me than 2 plains tiles. The long term position is better IMO, as this allows a city on the small island to the NW of Agadez to get both whales and not overlap too much. Also, the incense is now secure from the Babylonian settler that is just east of Agadez.

I agree with anarress on Agadez.

As for Segu: I kept changing my opinion on that one, seeing both the need for shipping and the need to use the inland well. I expect us to take Egypt soon, at least partly, thus I didn't want to put too much emphasis on coastal cities.



As for Dye in Greenland: THis makes me glad I went for settlers and workers, and I felt like :D when I read that anarres kept that up. Expand, expand, expand!

:satan: Egypt a possible victim of the Dynia super knight :satan:

I think our next galley needs to sail north to Greenland with a settler and escort - true it will never be that great on production, but the dyes are worth it. Please ANY city gets us closer to Domination.


===========================
FYI - I think I may have hosed, and forget to disable cultural win :(
#1 in culture is Babylon, so we need to avoid fights with them at all cost until close to the end of the game.


===========================
Medlor should look for a pre-build site - feudalism isn't that far away - I want Sun Tzu since this a mega warmonger game.

===========================

As for the fp - let's wait a bit - we are probably going to do another palace jump game. We need to better see the size of our empire before making the fp jump.

===========================

:love: I will say this much - random resouces makes the game a lot more fun - I never thought I would care about Greenland this early. :love:

I did get a chance to look at the game last night. There are three settlers already built that are in the east. I had thought about getting one from Timbuktu. I don't think it would be worth pulling one of them back, but one may still be on the raod system and can be diverted to a coastal pickup point. The spot I would like to send the new (Timbuktu settler is the last desert spot to seal in the dyes. The other two settlers will probaly go for the cows slightly S.E (directly south of Eygpt. and the seond going for the spices in the jungle. I will also start a galley towards Australia, if we can get there first it would be a bonus, if not we are still opening up more of the map. I will try to also send a couple more settlers up the coast. It would be nice to get one in Ireland/England and Iceland. Of course, lets not wait too long on the islands off our coast. Expasion is still in full swing.

Question: Which AI besides us was the most actiuve explorer? it is important to know as this is the first we should trade maps with each round. The combined maps make it more expensive for the less inclined.

One point for those who haven't played this map yet. As soon as the civs run out of room to expand, expect a massive, everyone and their uncle war. There will probably not be complete peace until we make it.

@Lee, what about the program DS used to disable it last time? Is it available for PTW?

I tried the Civ Placement Tool - At the moment is doesn't understand PTW as many of the tools don't.

I know map stat for PTW is in progress.

CPT has mentioned plans for PTW, but no defined date yet.

on the map:

Persia is the richest - go to them last.
explorers were mongols (as shown in their repeated 25 or 50 Gold jumps).

@Lee, It was Civ3MultiTool he used. It doesn't llok like a PTW version is due anytime soon. I didn't see any PTW bic editor.

[EDIT] Corrected the name of the tool.

I found both the mongols and the germans were discoving new maps with frequency.

When I map trade, I first go through all the civs and buy any maps worth more than 1 gold, buying them with gold only, not with our WM. I then do a second round selling to everyone. That way you make sure to maximise your return, as you guarantee having all of the known maps when you start selling.

I could only squeeze in a couple of turns as my son had a school project to work on and the diplo in this game takes longer than usual. I have managed to buy two workers in two and a half turns.

510 BC (Pre-turn)
Do a quick diplo check, sell map for spare change, pick up worker from Greece for WM and 108g. It may seem expensive, but worker buying pays off big in the long run. Change Timbuktu to settler. I want one to send to get the rest of the incense. Most likely the Egyptian settler will beat us to a spot near the wheat. I will head the four current settlers as follows: the two cows, the spice, on the coast near the congo, and one aboard a gally for Greenland for Lee. I will let the worker finish at Gao but will then hit it for another settler.
(I) The galley completes in Sokoto, I let it build one more. The spear finishes in Jenne, it is set to a settler.

490 BC (1)
The settler and spear in Jenne head for the new galley at the coast. Start the settler towards there new city sites. Three civ now have currency, we could get it from Joan at 730g but could only sell it for ~400g. I then notice we have no embassies. They are cheaper now while the cities are small and the number of cities are low. Get embassy with France for 39g. Paris is size 3 and building a temple. It does have the Great Library Lee if you want to try the same gambit as LK37. It would be a safer gambit here as we won't be in AW and Paris is close to the coast. Complete embassies with others. Thebes completes a worker this turn, we will buy it. Sell maps to everyone at ~4g each. Sell RoP to Mongols at 12g. RoP with Greece for 15g.
(I) Egypt settles on the hill opposite the cow. Gao finishes a worker and starts a settler.

470 BC (2)
Settlers moving. Buy the aforementioned Egyptian worker. Settler/Spear board galley for Greenland. Galley near france turns around for settler/spear for Ireland/England. Sell WM around.

470 BC (2)
(I) Nada

450 BC (3)
Settler rounds the horn of Greenland, we are almost there. Change mind on placement to third city. I buy two Zulu workers for 227g. I then buy currency and resell it for all but 100g of what we paid. It was about to hit the bargin basement and we wouldn't have been able to sell it to anyone. Construction came up with the Mongols, China and Russia. Trade WMs of course. Lux to 10% to prevent riots in Gao in Koumbi Saleh.
(I) The French start the Great Wall. Timbuktu builds a settler, we lose the scientist and move science to 10%.

430 BC (4)
Timbuktu settler moves to lock in the rest of the incense. Trade WMs, no workers this time.
(I) Koumbi Saleh builds a barracks and starts a spear. Segu builds a temple and start a barracks. Jenne builds a spear and starts a temple.

410 BC (5)
Katsina is built in a spot that has overlap but it is the only spot on the river close by. Busa is built on spot with two cows and can grab one of the wheats from Lisht, it starts a temple. Trade WMs, no workers again.
(I) Nada.

390 BC (6)
Build Daria to get spices on expansion and yet still allow for another city to be built on the coast. We round the corner and head for Canada. Again WMs and no workers.
(I) Egypt and China start the Great wall.

370 BC (7)
We are headed down the side of Canada. Trade WM and get Persian worker for 111g.
(I) Nada.

350 BC (8)
Not much, Eyptian archers are drifting south!
(I) Babylon starts the Hanging gardens.

330 BC (9)
Nioro founded to lock in incense. Find some blue borders in the new world, but no contact yet. Trade WM and get Chinese worker for 95g in deal.
(I) Babs start Great Wall, more Egyptian archers are gathering.

310 BC (10)
I switch everthing that makes sense to military builds which isn't much, start recalling the troops. Glad we have embassies, as we are going to need to buy the Babs into the fight. Meet America, they are up on techs except currancy! Sell them currancy for WM, 12g (all they had) and contact with the Iroquois. Strange, his WM has all of SA as well. I think we hit the sell of our contact on our turn bug. We now have contact with everyone in the world and didn't have to pay for it. Sell backward nations techs to clean out treasuries. 416g and WM to Aztecs for Currency. Argentina pays 482g for it. I then sell world maps to empty all but Joanies treasury (she paid 517g). We went from 1200g to 3600+ with the first contact and sell of maps.

I have not finished the last turn yet. I wanted to generate some discussion first. We are behind in tech, by Construction (due in 10 turns) Monarchy, and Monotheism. We can get completely caught up in tech by selling contacts or we can wait 5-10 turns and hope another tech pops up we can grab for them. Joanie is actively out there and I don't know how far she is behind us. China and Mongolia will be coming from the other side.

Notes for the next person: Settle near Timbuktu is headed for Gally to go to either isalnds off of Africa or England/Ireland. We need to fill in the smaller islands and get some of the coast filled in as well. I wuld spend the nexxt 10-20 turns on military if Cleo doesn't force the issue anyway. We are way behind in military and infrastructure. I would almost push for going for tech parity right now just because the threat of war from Egypt. At least then we could switch to Monarchy and cash build infrastructure and troops. There is a settler in place to build a city to lock in desert next to Gao. I know this won't be productive until after rails, but it is a defensive city.

If the discussion leaves nothing to do I will just post the game and pass it on.....else its off to the markets to buy, buy, buy.

meldor: :goodjob:

what are our civ traits? Are we religious? If NOT, buying Monarchy and revolting GUARANTEES an Egyptian attack!

I love the cash rush from America. :)

First contact always rocks. I say SELL contacts now to who will pay the best price. The AI will demand contact, and with a possible war why give them an excuse. In addition, this will hoard cash for military rushes. Plus a rushed harbor in Greenland would be nice ;)

Do we have Republic, or is it available? I would prefer Republic but either cash rush government works.
Either way let's revolt to something - being religious we can quickly get into a cash rush government.

I agree, if Egypt attacks we want to be able to mass cash rush military. In addition to pulling in Babylon, we probably want to pull in the Zulu. Did we aggressively settler a city? That increases the odds of war.

Heading out to work, so can't offer more comments.

we are religious [party]

let's sell, buy, revolt!

The peasants are revolting! (I always wanted to say that)

Hey guys, just leave me some of Egypt to mop up, or at least an army to carry on with :D

I double checked Songahi, per the wm posts:

Remove Rome and replaced with the Songhai - Religious and Commercial.

FWIW, you can tell if religous by checking the cost of temples...

On Kazin turn's, let get a big rush on military with careful spending - $3000 can go quickly at if we aren't careful. Plus we are getting close to our UU, and I would like the $80 a pop to upgrade horseman to Dynia.
Unless Egypt declares war, start the unit, and cash rush the next turn in our LOW shields towns - making sure we have barracks first.
Let the higher shield towns complete on their own. I would still squeeze in some settlers unless war starts.

If Egypt declares war, then use the partial cash rush method - rush worker at $80, then rush the unit. Still make sure we have barracks, as the 1 hp difference does win battles and is one of the human edges.

Let's hope those units are simply wandering around, as the AI usually avoids war when plenty of territory is left. Still, why take chances. I haven't looked at the game, but I think war could get tight at this point.

Have we started a pre-build for Sun Tzu?

Rush buying so much for war is strange to me.

Personally I would try to build some sprears first to avoid being taken by suprise, then build a few horses.

Why rush now when it might not be needed? We seem so close to knights that I would save the moey if possible and do a large upgrade rush, with all the horses we can build before then.

When you are in times of plenty money, and not enough production this seems a better strategy. Upgrading is also half the cost of rushing in cities.

Just my 2 cents.

Where is the save?

anarres: I not for rushing for war, but rather rushing to AVOID war! Maybe rush a few Spears, also some infrastructure.

We are definatly going to need to rush a few spears for defense just in case they do attack, I don't think anyone will argue with that.

The question is, are we going to go on the offensive if they declare war? If so, than most of the empire will have to be commited to prducing units and barracks

If we plan to just defend ourselves and attack later, then a few, high shield per turn cities with barracks should be able to supply enough spears/horsemen to defend the empire.

What do you guys think?

@Kazin -
Meldor did NOT post the save yet - he needs to complete the massive trading from turn 10.

He was looking for feedback on selling contacts, and catching up tech which I am 100% in favor of.

====================

I was thinking the same thing - rush a few units to reduce the possiblity of war. Sometimes even a single unit makes a difference.

OK, we want as much as we can for the contacts, so

We get:
Construction
Monarchy
Monotheism
1 German Worker
Incense
Wines

We give contacts and I had to pay some to Joanie for Mono as I had to buy Monarchy first (it was the most expensive), then construction and finally Monotheism. The only other way to do it would have been to buy Construction, Mono, and then Monarchy. We would have had to pay either way. The money in Joanie's hands is a good thing. As I said, she finished the Great Library, and we may want to grab that before we get education.
With the two new luxes to cover us until we get ours on line, I set our lux tax to 0% and science to 10%. Our incense should be online in two turns and we can then sell it to Joanie for cash.
The Egyptian archers are at least one turn away from any city so I go ahead and start the revolt.
I was going to start the pre-build in Jenne as soon as it finished its temple in one turn. There are some workers that are improving the tiles near it to boost production. We can start the palace there.

One big bonus is that I got to buy 7 workers for less money than we were making on selling our maps around. This is a great thing to do. You might not sell the maps every turn, but everyone should be cheched for workers and they should be bought unless we are so short of cash we can't.

LK39 310 BC Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39-310BC2.zip)

OK, this seems to be a criticle time in the game. If egypt doesnt declare war, then what do each of you think I should prioritize?


My goals are to: Settle more land, especially Greenland.
Start a pre-build for Sun Tzu's
Defend our cities
Keep even in tech (at least)

Anything else you guys wanna say before I start?

Personally, I would get a settler away in the boats to Greenland, but apart form that I would build barracks, then a few spears, then horses. Lots and lots of horses. I would set science to 10%, not put science on Feudalism but wait and buy it, then put 100% research in to Chivalry (if it is feasable).

Then, whammo. Instant army of doom. No more Egypt. No more anyone in your way. We get land, we expand again, we build up cities and infrastructure, then we get cav and repeat.

Or is that a bit too over-zealous?

Keep posting some comments. It will work alot better if everyone has a bit of input into this.

I should have the game up by tommorow night btw.

I like annares' plan :)

Ps. Played a turn, it doesn't look like Egypt is going to attack.

My views are goals:
1) Settler into Greenland - This is a very high priority, as a fourth luxury would be great. This will give us two clusters of luxuries to trade. CASH RUSH a harbor - at that point the city can start to supply it's own workers, and maybe even a settler. Greenland with all the ice and forest has a great potential for rubber and oil. We can't control enough of that ice rock.

2) Palace pre-build for Sun Tzu - this city should be #1 for worker priority. If it has some hills, then irrigate enough grassland to use those hills.

3) I really want blue dot - with 2 whales, and a grassland square it will have ok production, and generate a ton of cash.

4) Don't be afraid to horde cash - a nice block of horseman to upgrade to our UU would be nice. The UU should let us put a good dent into Egypt, and get our power base going.

5) I am not to worried about tech, and I am willing to wait for enough civs to have it at a reasonable price. My only concern is increasing cash flow - a marketplace or two in larger cities would be nice.

6) I think military need to start increasing before trouble happens.

Originally posted by LKendter
My views are goals:
1) Settler into Greenland
2) Palace pre-build for Sun Tzu
3) I really want blue dot
4) Don't be afraid to horde cash
5) I am not to worried about tech
6) I think military need to start increasing before trouble happens.
1) There is a settler/spear pair already one the way for this one.
2) Jenne is the best spot we have, but it needed a temple first. There are several workers around it getting the shield totals up already.
3) There was a settler beside Jenne on the way to the coast were it can be joined by the spear building in Koumbi Saleh to board the galley sitting there waiting for it.
4) But yet, don't be afraid to spen it either. Before Jenne is set to pre-build for SunTzu's it would be nice to rush a marketplace there.
5) The tech was set to fuedalism at 10%. I was thinking to get the techs for our UU and then go after Military Tradition. We could then either use those techs to trade for the others or we could simple take the Great Library from Joan.
6) Even if the Egyptians don't attack in the next several turns, I would rush the barracks that only have a few turns left and then quick rush several horses just to keep her honest.

BTW, you guys probably don't need to be told, but the two cheapest ways to cash rush something are to start it and wait for some shields to get added to it, then rush it, or rush a worker, before the end of the turn, switch to what you want to build and then rush it. For instance, if it costs 1200g to rush something from scratch, it will cost almost half of that to rush it depending on how many shields have been appied to it. Otherwise, you can cash rush a worker for 80g, switch to the item desired and rush the rest of it for 560g. It costs more but you don't have to wait any extra turns. Towards the end of this game, we will have a lot of 1 shield towns. After rushing barracks, they can be put to rush build tanks or MA everyturn or two. Using the above you can do it a lot cheaper, which means more units. An extra 10 or so tanks a turn ends the game a lot quicker.

Just one quick question Meldor,

Does that settler north of Gao have a specific place it is supposed to be going. I looked for a while, but couldn't see anywhere obivous to send him.

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor
Kazin (currently playing)
Lt. 'Killer' M. (on deck)

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

=====================================

I got a chance to look at the game, and Arwan is a better choice for the Sun Tzu pre-build. Why?

1) It already has a temple.
2) It can cash rush a marketplace this turn - this puts it several turns ahead to start vs. Jenne.
3) It has 7 spare food tiles at the moment, vs. Jenne having just 1 or 2.
4) It ALREADY has more shields then Jenne (8 vs. 7), and will quickly add more.
With the hill mined (+3 shields), and several mined plains this city could easily crank 20+ shields a turn.
5) There are plenty of nearby workers to help the city.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-250.jpg
We can very quickly turn Arwan into a powerhouse city.
Let the workers on blue dot move irrigation down all the blue dots.
Let the workers on yellow dot mining yellow dot hill, then start mining the gray dots.
Arwan needs to be worker priority #1 - if it is - we should get Sun Tzu. :)

@Kazin - I hope this reaches you in time.

Jenne has very little chance to pull the wonder off.

We growth in Arwan CAREFULLY - raising the luxury rate as high as need to keep it growing and more shields - NO SPECIALIST!

@Kazin, the settler was there to lock the borders in the desert. I had intended to build the city were he was standing. It is a low production now, but it keeps the other civs from planting one there and getting a wedge into our empire. Also, that desert is the most likely place for us to get oil.

I like the plan to go for Feudalism by buying, then GET CHIVALRY and WHAM!!!!


it is high time we get a leader (for FP), another one for an army, and some more land :mwaha:

This is the point where a fast, decisive campaign can out us into a sufficisnt lead to get Cavalry those 8 to 10 important turns before the others easily - and WHAM! again ;)

Aside from that I favor a joyride to Paris :D

On Feudalism - I say bag 10% token research; we won't wait for Feudalism if we want Sun Tzu. Set science to 0% and wait to buy it when the price gets reasonable.

On the subject of the FP, we will want it in central Africa. We then move the palace to Berlin later in the game. At that point - game, set, and match - as we will have a huge power base.

On the subject of attack - Babylon is OFF limits - we want to keep the culture leader alive as long as possible to avoid an accidental culture win. We our UU being a super-charged knight, we do want take a chunk of Egypt. Of course, it will be golden age vs. golden age - a war chariot will win at some point. The trick - make sure we take advantage of the ga to get an infrastructure boast, seeing as we have almost NONE.

Pre-turn- Not much to do here since we are in anarchy. I made a worker check, but no civs had any available for trade.

1) Monarchy! 51 GPT, nice :) I hurried barracks in Hombori for 40 gold, I'm still not completely sure the Egyptians will leave us alone, even though they did move in out territory.
Better be safe than sorry; I move a spearmen from down to guard Arwan, and then move the spear that was guarding Arwan down to Hombori, as it would be the city that would be attacked first if Egypt declared war. The settler outside Gao settles down and forms the town of Tadmekket. Workers are ordered to bring Irrigation up to Tadmekket, Nioro and Agadez

2) Gwandu finishes barracks, a spearman is ordered up. The AI would love to have that town with two luxuries in it. Hombori completes barracks, begins work on spear. The French, Russians, and Mongols begin the Hanging Gardens. The AI is very poor. Most of them (France being and exception) have no cash at all, are behind in techs, have no workers, and very few have luxuries for trade. Four workers are committed to making a road between Gwandu and Agadez. Arwan rushes a marketplace for 276 gold ( I know it's alot, be LK had some real good points, and we gotta get the pre-build going )

3) Whohoo, marketplace in Arwen bring us up to 64 gpt. Arwan starts palace.

4) Lux raised to 20% for 2 turns to keep arwen from going into a disorder. A spearman will be ready for mp duty in 2 turns.

5) Goa finishes barracks, starts Market place. Walata finishes temple, starts marketplace. During this turn's trading round, I discover India has discovered the republic. Too bad the want monarchy, construction, wm, and near 2k gold. We'll pass. Sell the our world map around for everyone's wm and ~130 gold.

6) Katsina completes temple, starts marketplace.

7) Crap, and Egyptian settler-warrior pair lands on the island with 2 whales tow turns before we were set to reach there. They might settle where they are though, in which case, I will still settle on the other end of the island. Rush a temple ASAP, agadez is switched to library, we are going to try to flip it. I sell around our wm for ~100 gold.

8) Busa builds temple, begins worker.

9) This is weird, that Egyptian settler-warrior pair moved away instead of founding a city. Oh well all the better for us. Kukiya is founded by the two whales, temple is rushed for 204 gold.

10) Kukiya finishes temple, begins harbour. I rush a temple in Diara for 68 gold as the Zulu were creeping up on our spice. We will have wines hooked up in 1 turn.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/lk_39_shonghai_110bc.SAV



If there is one thing I did wrong this turn, it was not expanding enough, I was too caught up in "who had a marketplace-temple-barracks."

LKendter (on deck)
Anarres
Meldor
Kazin
Lt. 'Killer' M. (currently playing)
Good luck that workers will start appearing again ;)

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


Sell them our world map around for everyone's wm and ~130 gold.
This is why you keep hearing my trade like crazy comments.
One thing we have learned, why playing world map scale, there is a ton of map trading money to make as long as we have galleys out there.


Oh well all the better for us. Kukiya is founded by the two whales; temple is rushed for 204 gold.
:confused: How did we get the price of 204? 80 (worker) + 20 more shields (80) = 160.
Just want to check we aren't overspending.

got it.

preturn: trade map around. india will give us Republic + 11 GPT + 20 G flat for montheisma nd Monarchy - why not? Brazil gives WM and 120 Gold for mono. Currency empties Argentinas treasure, another 80 Gold for us. Germany gives all their 26 Gold for Philosophy.

I realize: Egypt has no advanced Gov to switch to!

I am a bit shocked to find Babylon controling the Suez isthmus :eek: That means: we need to sign an ROP with babylon, station troops on the tiles we need to get our troops through and then NEVER EVER end the ROP! NOTHING would harm a military campaign in Europe or the Near or Middle East as much as a suddenly closed resupply route becuase of some bumbling Babylonian worker!


(1) 90 BC - Diara builds Temple, starts worker. Busa builds worker, another ordered. Then, settler? Change Sokoto to a settler. Gaos markertplace will come after grows (i.e. too late) so 1 citizen goes scientist and rate to 0%. Saves 10 Gold. Arrest growth in Segu to speed barracks from 5 to 2. Why Barracks there? We may have to wait a while for SunTzus, and I want some vet units now. Segu can go w/o more infrastructure for a while while growing and producing a lot.

(2) 70 BC - Babylon is pushing settlers through Egypt. mm Segu again to slow growth and barracks next turn. Decide to bring irrigation there so we can use the iron tile with mine contiunously.
Decide to mine some plains around Arwan now. That way, 1 citizen gives as much prod as otherwise two would. the samller the town the less luxury necessary. No other good tiles available atm. Also, given the current surplus of food, no more food is needed to go size 12.

(3) 50 BC - moves. Persia has spent/lost a bunch of money this turn. :confused: barbs pillaging? No new tech, no nothing as a reason.....

(4) 30 BC - I decide Busa would ba a nice place for the FP. Start a Courthouse as it is at 25% corruption now, we can see if we want to go straight for FP once the city has grown a bit.

(5) 10 BC - Babylon finishes the Great Wall. I would feel better if someone completed Gardens soon..... Settler in Timbuktu --> to coast. Galley reaches Greenland next turn.

(6) 10 AD - everyone now build Hanging Gardens. Culture expan gives us control over the Egyptian settler/warrior pair. We can kick them out antime we want to 'change'our relationship with Egypt. Settler from Sokoto goes east. A Bab Galley approached the little island off our coast - land a settler there. Alos, Greenland is reached. Buy worker (+7 and WM) from Greece for Construction. Big cash from Mao for Mono: WM and 130. Must have popped two huts, he was at 14 last round. Monarchy spreads around America, I sell Republic for some 100 to Brazil and US for together 114. They'd get it soon anyway.

(7) 30 AD - a Galley norht of Sweden sunk by barb. worker from Diara to hook up spices. Kangaba founded. Spear discovers another Dye in Greenland :D Kano will be the town of dyes. I will wait one turn to rush harbor. use two taxmen in Gao and Koumbi to retain happiness, both towns close to improvment so not worht changing lux rate. Spear from Segu on way to Arwan as 3rd MP.

(8) 50 AD - Gao, Jenne, Walata all build Marketplace --> Cathedral selected. The harbor costs 316 Gold.

(9) 70 AD - Of ****!!!! There's sea tiles between su and Greenland! :eek:

(10) 90 AD - What the hell???????
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/import2.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/import3.jpg

I load the end of the last turn again:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/import.jpg

how the hell have we been able to IMPORT stuff from them if we cannot trade with them?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???


Oh well, PTW bugs :rolleyes:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39-90AD.zip

didn't trade this turn.

Hey 'mr most active poster', wanna fix those pics?

Edit: Of course I forget to factor in the 'Killer' style of posting to forums... :crazyeye:


Killer - can you explain what losing those lux's was from? I didn't think there were any active deals...

ah, me dumb: mixed: cannot rade and can trade :lol:


still: we didn't have incense hooked up ten turns ago??????

anarres: I post the text while uploading the images. if there's several images, people who have nothing to do but hang around here may actually get the mail and check the post before the upload is done :p


It must have been meldor doing the trading. That was so long agon I simply forgot.

I checked: no mention of the iron here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=723250#post723250

nor here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=724159#post724159


also, meldor speaks of TWO new lux, but mentions only one in his list (Wines).

ah well!

btw: i did never get a good offer for the incense from France so I never sold it. Maybe the next player should look ino that again now......


anarres: you check the post list? :lol: I was a bit schocked when a friend told me I passed Simon DS....

I just follow you around Killer. ;)

I saw gunning1 mention it...

oh, and I've had no email notification for a couple of months now :mad:

I got the incense and wines as part of the trades on my last turn. It was going to be a couple of turns before either was hooked up for us, and they were esentially free. We should use those extra luxes to get techs if possible!

[EDIT] See post #106 on page 6 of this thread.

90 AD (pre-turn) - I change Kano to barracks and rush it. I want to get Greenland up and going.
I change Kangaba to temple and rush it to get the whale on-line.
I find a China worker for sale, and the map selling almost covers the cost.
I notice that we have Republic, so instant revolution.

130 AD - I rush a harbor in Kukiya. This will pay for itself to let that city get up to size 6 and start rolling in the cash, and to speed up growth with the whale tiles adding more food.
I switch Nioro and Agadez to harbors and rush, as this is the only way they can grow beyond size two.
I speed rush the Harbor in Kangaba.

150 AD - I rush a spear in Greenland. I want to send several settlers this way, and at the same time I don't want to weaken our homeland defense.
(I) Hombori starts the forbidden palace - this meets my central Africa goal for the FP with a palace jump to Paris or Berlin quite well.

170 AD - Rush barracks in Kangaba, as it won't benefit from Sun Tzu.
(I) The fighting starts as Babylon declares war on China.

190AD - I rush another spearman in Greenland, as I have several settlers heading that way needing escort.

210 AD - The rush is expensive at $392, but a marketplace appears in Kukiya. The city will gain $2 at size one, as it grows we will be rolling in revenue. I rush a galley in Kangaba to keep shipping settlers to Greenland.
The price of feudalism is starting to get reasonable, as France wants incense and $1050 - I think it can still come down some.

230 AD - I rush the temple in Nioro to close a culture gap that the AI might think about settling.
I hurry an archer in Greenland, as there are barb camps out there.

250 AD - Taghaza is formed - not a great city, but I hate to see a fish square go to waste.
I think this is our first worker from Babylon, but I don't care where they come from.
I don't know where the Iroquois suddenly got some money from, but I sell them Polytheism for $61.
I finally bite the bullet and buy Feudalism for $1035, incense, wm from France.
We only need 13 turns to complete Sun Tzu!
I upgrade 10 spearman to pikeman to improve our military position.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-253.jpg
Yellow dot is the number one priority - with temple this gets us 5 more dyes! The settler for yellow dot is by Ireland and should arrive on Meldor's turn.
Red dot gives us fish and whales and should grow fast for us to rush a settler up there.

260 AD - I rush the harbor in Taghaza, so that this city can grow faster.
I continue the spearman rush in Greenland.
I love map trading with getting the Persian map first - $9 just from Brazil and over $100 total. The Iroquois will become the second map source, as they are exploring around Greenland.
I rush a pike in Nioro to improve our military position.
(I) The wars increase as Egypt allies with Babylon vs. China.
Theology has been learned, as Russia starts Sistine.

270 AD - Koumbi Saleh should be our second best shield city, so I start a palace pre-build there. That city will need some MINED plains.
Theology is out there, but no way I will give up $2100 for it. I will wait for the price to drop, plus I want Engineering first as the rivers are really slowing our movement down. Engineering is still overpriced at $1700.
Tadmekket is under culture pressure from Babylon, so I rush a library to help out position.
(I) The cascade will begin as the Mongols complete Hanging Gardens.

280 AD - Rushing is greatly reduced until Sun Tzu is built, as I want the panic option to buy Theology rather then flush shields down the toilet.
I send our new worker to Besancon to take advantage of the RoP with France and get irrigation to Gwandu - I really want to start using those mountains and hills for shields.
The backwards Iroquois must have popped some barb camps, so I sell them currency for $50 and wm.
(I) Multiple civs switch to Sistine Chapel and Sun Tzu.

290 AD - Our exploring spearman pops a hut in Greenland - of course it is angry barbs.
What I can't believe is I continue to find even MORE dyes in Greenland.
Our recent exploring adds blue dot to the hot list.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-254.jpg

The panic price for Theology is down to ~$1700 before haggling from India.
Engineering is down to $1500, but I want the price a bit lower, and don't want to lose the panic money for Theology.

300 AD - I rush another Kangaba to keep the settler pipeline heading north.
We decide the Persians should get drunk and send them wines for $90 and wm.
China continues to be a great source of workers - the new worker goes to mine north of Gao to get rid of the awkward nine shields a turn. I wish backwards Germany would have one for sale, as we could give them ancient age techs for it.


Summary - The workers are trying to get water to Agadez so that we can irrigate the 2 plains and add some shields to that city.

The rushing I did was to keep cities growing, increase revenue, and to get Greenland up and going.

Why my obsession on Greenland:
1) Any square brings us close to domination.
2) They amount of dyes up is huge, and I want the majority of them. There is a high possibility of oil or rubber in Greenland.
3) Once our palace is in Paris, these cities will have acceptable corruption with courthouses and can generate a ton of revenue.

Keep the military rush in Greenland going, as there are multiple settlers on boats heading toward Greenland. If Greenland fills up, then go for some of the ice above America to increase our chances of oil and get closer to domination. We can even rush settlers in Greenland when size 3 is achieved with the cities.

If we want to go to war anytime soon, we need more defenders and more horsemen for upgrade. Nioro as 1 shield is a great place to rush military every other turn - we still have plenty of cash. Our exploration of Greenland was netting us over $50 a turn.

We really need more workers - let Walata pop a few workers after the granary is complete.

Koumbi Saleh need more mined plains - when the nearby workers complete - please send them to mine plains


LKendter
Anarres (currently playing)
Hopefully seeing Sun Tzu during his turns.
This city is already at 20 shields a turn and still has 2 more plains to mine.
Meldor (on deck)
Kazin
Lt. 'Killer' M.

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39-300AD.zip

Note: I played three extra turns to get us to nice even years.

Well, I'm alive :)

I will play later tonight or tomorrow morning.

sorry, meldor, I simply read over it :blush:

preturn: mm Busa for food and change production to markertplace. It is building a courthouse, but the FP is being built 7 squres away. I think Killer intended this to be the FP location, and LK decided Hombori would be best. There is little to choose between the cities, and in the end I leave Hombori on the FP as it will be done quicker and will be of more immediate benifit to existing cities. I change Busa to marketplace as it just about to expand to 7.

AI: Irquois demand Republic. I tell him to do jump off a cliff. He backs down.

(1) 310AD - Make 112 gold from WM trading.

(2) 320AD - Pop a goody hut in greenland and get some barbs...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.03.02.barbs.jpg

Engeneering is down to 1500 before haggling, but it is still too much. Buy 2 workers from France for 2-8 gold.

AI: Barbs move away.

(3) 330AD - I change the few cities poducing pikemen to horseman. 132 gold from WM trading.

(4) 340AD - Settler gets to east coast of Greenland. I send hiw overland to the west with a double spearman escort. I rush another spearman in Kano.

(5) 350AD - Set Busa builds marketplace, set to granary. The settler in Greenland hits a problem - the Iroquois:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.03.05.Iroquois.jpg

Get 166 gold from WM trading.

AI: Iroquois settler founds city on tile in picture. :mad:

(6) 360AD - Hurry galley in Kangaba.Pop another goody hut in Greenland - deserted. Rush settler in Kano (Greenland).

AI: Aztecs demand 100 gold and TM. I say no, he declares war. He is just so far away that in the time it takes him to get to greenland we will have several cities all roaded together.

(7) 370AD - Kano builds settler sent NE to red dot location (LK's Greenland map).

Make about 120 gold from WM trading.


AI: France and China sign MA against Babylon


(8) 380AD - We build Sun Tzu's Art of War:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.03.08.SunTzu.jpg

3879

(9) 390AD - 90 gold from WM trades.

(10) 400AD - Nothing significant.

Notes: Greenland has a settler on the red dot locaion ready to settle next turn. There is another settler 2 squares above the Iroquois city in Greenland which I have not moved this turn I decided to leave the city location to you. There is also another settler in the galley just of the east coast of Greenland. This gally has also to move yet. There are a number more settlers in the galleys en route.

I have been preparing for war. Nearly all mainland cities are producing horesmen. Chivalry is about 1500 gold, and can be bought and given in part payment for thelogy and engineering if done in the right order. I have been trying desperately to build enough horsement to upgrade. I suggest rushing one every other turn in the desert city on 1 shield.

It is definately worth waiting for the wines deal with Persia to time out in another 8 turns. It really ties our hands having such a recent deal, as Egypt is a part of the trade route to Persia. Because of this, I would recommend building horsemen for 8 turns and then buying Chivalry and upgrading in one go.

Note also that I haven't traded or done any mm this turn.

LK39 400AD Save Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.400AD.zip)

Unreal - 20+ dyes in Greenland - most likely the exclusive source for the world.
We must own ALL of Greenland - the Iroquois city must be auto-razed.
One the issue of war - I think we will get Leo's, let us see if it happens before starting a war - it could save us a ton of cash.

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor (currently playing)
Preparing for limited Iroquois war in Greenland [/big hint]

Kazin (on deck)
>>Must purchase Engineering and Invention when palace pre-build is up regardless of cost.
>>Save plenty of cash to do it - we NEED Leo's, especially with our mass horseman to Dynia plan.

Lt. 'Killer' M.

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

[b] Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

Some more notes about my turn:

- I didn't bother going round selling all the barracks we built, each one is worth 5 gold.
- I forwent city improvments in the core such as marketplaces to build horsemen.
- Turn 8 I set lux slider down to 0% (I think) and set entertainers in a couple of cities.
- There is an excess of workers around Koumbi Saleh, and that city now has 22 shields per turn, soon to be 23 or 24. There are about 240 shields colloected there so far. I suggest sweeping east with the workers, working as they go. The war will need plenty of workers.
- There is no point buying Chivalry yet as we can build more horsemen for upgrading first.
- Science is set to 0%, I am not sure why. I assume it is because we haven't been researing fast and buying with cash is still cheaper, but this is maybe not the case for much longer. We should consider catching up in tech after the upcoming war.

Edit: I put serious money on me missing this war :cry:

War has to start within 10 to 20 turns, whatever your style of playing, and I imagine it will be over by my next turn...

...however, I have a question:

I wanted to agressivly settle in Greenland to force the flip of the Irquois city. Would this have been allowed as I have seen it banned for other SG's.

Actually, I think the workers should sweep to the Atlantic coast. Why? To keep them plenty away from the borders of Egypt.

================================

Agressive settler is perfect valid in the LK series - it is not an exploit.
War time cities are also valid - IE move a settler into the AI territory and build to get borders closer - or to replace a to large abandoned city.

================================

On the Iroquois city in Greenland - Auto-Razed it (big hint Meldor).

================================

On the subject of research - zero research is letting us have plenty of cash to do things the mass rush of troops in Greeland, hordes of horseman, my major harbor push getting our cities larger, etc.

I'm just a little concerned at spending that gold. We are killing ourselves preparing for war by not building city improvements, but at the same time we are spending a lot of the money rushing non-essential things.

Greenland will be ok, and the Iroquois city can be flipped. LK, I don't know what Auto-Razing is, can you please explain?

Note that there are available spices, but we should be at war before the 20 turns is out, so I really wouln't go trading yet.

Everyone cascaded to Leonardo's or Sistine or JSBachs when Sun Tzu's was built. I can't see any of those becoming ours, not even Leonardo's, so don't get too upset when we don't make it. I think we should keep as much cash as possible in case Leonardo's goes and we need to buy Chiv and rush everything all at once.

I spent my 10 turns saving money for the war, and I saved a lot of money (maybe I will find out how much later, suffice to say it was a serious amount). It would be a shame to see it splurged and for us not to have enough later on to upgrade.

Edit: LK, we must just differ about the role of workers in wartime. I always have them at the forefront of my war. They can road where needed, and can draw enemy troops out in to the open. If they get caught they are usually only 1 turn away from a fast unit and they retain nationality. Without workers you can become totally hampered by lack or roads.

anarres: auto-raze means when the town is to small and destroyed on taking automatically. auto(matical) razing...

They can road where needed, and can draw enemy troops out in to the open. If they get caught they are usually only 1 turn away from a fast unit and they retain nationality.

I will keep a few workers with heavy guard by the front to fill in the gaps. However, there is no guarantee you will get them back - I have already seen the AI simply abandon the stack. It is more risk then it is worth.

I am happy with a work crew defended by two or three strong guards filling in the road gaps.

==========================

I'm just a little concerned at spending that gold. We are killing ourselves preparing for war by not building city improvements, but at the same time we are spending a lot of the money rushing non-essential things.

Much of my spending was the classic you need to spend money to make money. The rushed harbors allowed several cities to get past size 2 and gain more income from the extra coastal squares being gained. The rushed marketplaces were already generated more then there cost per turn. I am doing everything possible to get us a stronger economy - the long-term key to survival.

It may be playing style, but I am not that rushed for a war with Egypt - if they keep fighting China we can catch them with all of there troops far from home and gain several cities in short order, and then see how much we can exploit from peace. If we are luckier, they will burn up a lot of the troops at the front ;)

We enjoy our golden age and get a huge improvement in infrastructure thanks to the ga. My goal is the area with the luxuries of Egypt - you can never have enough.

In which case:

Killer - I suggest you change production on the core cities to marketplaces and libraries where appropriate!!

If I had known we were unlikely to go to war soon I would have never just sat building horsemen. :(

We really need marketplaces to increase revinue, I am afraid that I have screwed it up a bit as well because those units I built are costing money for every one, every turn :cry:

Maybe we should discuss strategy a bit more here, as I really focused on war, and in retrospect it appears to have been the wrong thing to do...

ah, it's meldor currently playing, then Kazin. might be a bit late if I change the buildings ;)

Oh well, the same applies...

indeed ;)

Actually there is no question that war is coming. We definitely want to use our UU.
I want to see how powerful a 5-attack knight is. ;)
Plus I would love to capture more workers - we still need a lot of help. The spice city alone has a ton of jungle to clear.

This difference is timing - I want to see what happens with Leo's and make sure we have the cash to get Engineering and Invention and give it a try before we suck up all our cash our upgrades and Chivalry.

Don't forget we can demand that Egypt leave thanks to those settlers on the whales island.

France is also a big target - the great library is a bull's eye in Paris. A palace relocated to Paris would give us a huge boast to our economy as all of those Greenland fishing villages pump out the cash.

I see it and hope to get on it tonight.

As far as the build up of troops is concerned, I wouldn't call it a bad thing. We haven't been picked on as yet and that is good, concidering this is one of the worst starting positions (besides the Australian). Brazil was better (well maybe not now with Aregentina).

I like the idea of hitting France before Egypt. France has land that will be a lot more productive in the long run than Egypt's mostly desert and flood plains. Is getting Leo's important enough to use the FP build to get it? Do we have enough shields there to snag it?

I will rush some offensive units in Greenland, brush the Iroquois off and then let them sweat peace, maybe bring in their neighbors for a hoot.

hey, meldor, that's a nice idea, get rid of the iroq and trigger a long war, free for all in the Americas!

At the world scale Leo's is a huge wonder. However, I suspect the palace has plenty more shields pending vs. the FP and it is a non-issue. Our plans for a huge production base depend on Central Africa FP and palace in France. The great library is still worth a few techs for us. France speeds up the plan to turn Greenland into major revenue source -a ton of coast, several whales, and fish is very cash heavy.

With a few galleys France is quite a viable target. They galleys load in wine city - wait a turn - land troops, and hide in the city. If we go for France - make sure to CANCEL the RoP first. This is way to early in the game to destroy our rep.

Just as long as Killer doesn't accuse me of changing the look of the map too much..... :) :rolleyes:

meldor: accuse? I usually praise you for it :D :goodjob: and I trust you to do it ;)

400 AD (pre-turn)
I set myself two goals, start a war with teh Iroquois and start a war with France. I drop one of the three settler near England to claim the last English spot once we attack Paris.We should be able to take out France pretty quickly as they only have a limited number of cities. Unfortunately we can not take their last city as it is a one square island. We should beat the French down to two cities and force them to give us the island city as a concession. I move the settler in Greenland to a non-agressive settling postition and rush the archer there. We will attack with three archers and hope we get lucky. The French will be a two prong attack, first we will land in Spain and attack the city in Africa. A couple of turns later, we will land at Paris and take it by storm. Unfortunately we do not have the galleys to do this and so I switch several cities to Galleys and then rush them. I rush some more horses. We have a lux deal with France for five turns so I have that long to prepare. What happened to the Galley headed for Australia? I sell WM and get the Argentinians in on our war with the Aztecs. Maybe they will hit start a local mess. BTW, anarres I have no complaints about what you left me, the French may, but they don't know it yet. I also finish getting our embassies up as I want to do much allainces in the new world as possible. Things will get crazy.
(I) China and Babylon sign a peace treaty. The palace expands just because meldor is back in power. The Songhai people can feel their blood singing with anticipation. Babylon starts Leo's. The Aztecs start Sistine.

410 AD (1)
Upgrade 8 spears to pikes. Start moving Horsemen to the west. Anarres was planning on hitting the Egyptians, now the plan has changed. Settle two spots in Greenland. Rush all horsemen with at least one shield. Settler in England moves to a neutral corner. Galley with settler gets a pike to drop of in England. Rush one Galley.
(I) China and Egypt sign for peace. China starts Sistines.

420 AD (2)
Rush another round of horsemen and galleys. That should give enough galleys for the invasion force. Get 50g from goodie hut in Greenland. Rush another archer there.
(I) Nada.

430 AD (3)
Purchase Chivalry from France for WM and 1215g, hope she doesn't spend it all until we get there. I start the upgrade to Dyina.
(I) The Egyptians start Sistines.

440 AD (4)
Continue to move the Horses west and upgrade them as they arrive. Start loading the Galleys for Paris. I hope you thank Anarres and me, Kazin, it looks like you get to start our GA.
(I) A funny thing Happen on the way to build up for France, they and the Aztec sign an Alliance against us! We are at war with France! The FP completes and the palace expands yet again.

450 AD (5)
Movement and upgrading 5 Dyina and a pike arrive off the coast of France. Four Archer and a apear move on the Iroquois city and we are at war with them.
(I) The Iroquois try to draw first blood by sinking one of our galleys but they fail. With my bloodlust up, theZulu come to try and tells us to give them Chivalry. I tell Shaka to take a flying suck at a rolling grapefruit, and he goes away with a confused look on his face. Cleoo comes and offers her World Map for Chivalry? What do these poor souls think we are? She gets a swap of territory maps and nothing more. She left mumbling something about Citris being good for the skin.

460 AD (6)
Land Dyinas and pike in Spain. Attack and raze Iroquois city. Give Lincoln 56g and 11gpt to keep busy with the Iroquois.
(I) Cathy declares war on us! What did we just put up a kick me sign? Agrentina and America Ally against the Iroquois. The Persians come calling, we give them incense to keep Cathy busy. The palace expands again.

470 AD (7)
Just to make things interesting, I give CLeo 40g to go play with Cathy as well. Our first Victory with a Dyina as a french archer bites it and we are in teh GA. Income jumps from 250 to 490gpt. We attack Marseilles and fail to take it by a 2 HP knight.
(I) France declares war on the Egyptians.

480 AD (8)
We capture Besancon and the French are no longer in Africa. I build us a nice city in England and start it on a temple. A two hit point Knight in Marseille defends against two healty Dyina!
(I) India and Babylon ally against France. Persia talks the Mongols into playing with Cathy.

490 AD (9)
Get spices hooked up. Upgrade last Horesman. We are the proud owners of 28 Dyina.
(I) The stinking Aztecs finish Leo's.

500 AD (10)
I finally manage to kill that stinking knight though it costs another Dyina. The RnG doesn't like me this go round. We have Marseilles and a foothold in Europe. I trade WM and because we now have the Australian WM we claen out almost all friendly treasuries.

Status on War Treaties:
Argentina va Aztecs 10 turns left
Egypr vs the Russians 17 turns left
Persia vs the Russians 16 turns left
America vs Iroquois 16 turns left.

IMPORTANT: There are now 9 Galleys with Dyina and pikes headed for Paris. We must take and hold Paris within the next eight turns. They are 5 turns from Paris now. If they do not reach Paris and take it in less than eight turns then the palace pre-build must be slow for the last couple of turns. It must not be allowed to complete. It is our wonder in waiting. I would love to get Smith's but I don't think the AIs are that high up the ladder yet. We should be able to pull a wonder.

Also, there are two ships north of Greenland that are sitting side by side. Do not move these ships until we lock the last dyes up in Greenland. They are blocking the Babylonian ship from getting around Greenland. It had to turn around and head the other way. There is a ship that has the two last settlers needed to lock in all the dyes on the east side of Greenland. The settlers to fill in the rest can be built there.

We have plenty of extra galleys now as I built too many anticipatinghaving them all full of Dyina for Kazin to kill the French. Since the French couldn't wait, we have some extra to head around Africa and explore some more. WE may wnat to peal off some settlers to stick on a couple of them to fill in some of those Pacific Islands.

With the GA on hand we will want to do an Infrastructure push as soon as we secure the Great Library. We will then also have to start research on our own. We should be building the mass now to make that easier. Germany also looks like a tasty target if we don't run out of steam in France and it is on the way to Russia. A better centered Palace sasy in Berlin or even Corinth (Greek) would be nice and make Europe a power house for us.

DO NOT try and capture Rouen. We want the French capital to jump ther after we take all the rest and then we can force them to give us the Iceland city and the one square city on Malta. Otherwise it will be marines before we can take one square island cities. Its easier to take them for peace.

LK39 500 AD Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.500AD.zip)

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
meldor: accuse? I usually praise you for it :D :goodjob: and I trust you to do it ;)

Sorry Killer, I didn't get to change much of the map, but I did start the stuff a flying! There might never be peace again. That is what I love about the AI on a huge map, they love to pull each other into the mess.

Wow. That was apocalyptic compared to my quiet plodding :)

Good to know we are at war at last. It gives me a warm feeling inside :mischief:

(I) A funny thing Happen on the way to build up for France, they and the Aztec sign an Alliance against us! We are at war with France!
UNREAL - let us get the defensive ww bonus, and keep our rep in shape. We still need to ally with them, for now :satan:

===============================

With the GA on hand we will want to do an Infrastructure push as soon as we secure the Great Library.
I couldn't agree more - we really need more marketplaces to increase revenue.

===============================

A better centered Palace say in Berlin or even Corinth (Greek) would be nice and make Europe a powerhouse for us.
Just don't forget the Greenland effect - the further we go from Greenland, the less of a revenue center we have. That is why I proposed Paris. A ton of fishing villages generating a ton of revenue will really help our financial cause - I still vote for Paris.

===============================

We will then also have to start research on our own.
Why do you want to pay first price for techs?
I really want to keep a ton of cash for rushing, and buying techs @5th or later help that cause.
Outside of a few key techs - economics for example - we really don't need to be tech leaders.

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor
Kazin (currently playing)
>>Must not waste our wonder pre-build.

Lt. 'Killer' M. (on deck)

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

by meldor
We haven't been picked on as yet and that is good, considering this is one of the worst starting positions (besides the Australian).

We have wines, incense, and ivory hooked up. We have dyes with astronomy, and spices on the way. 5 early natural luxuries are awesome. With having that many luxuries we can run size 12 cities happy only having a marketplace and a temple. To me, that alone is an awesome position.

We have horses, and multiple iron for resources. We have a chance for coal, rubber, saltpeter, oil and aluminum.

It is 500AD and we will cripple France. Our push in Greenland will give us a luxury lock, and a large block toward domination.

We already have the FP in place, and if we get a leader are in position for the palace jump to Paris.


I love this starting position, and we are well on our way to dominating this world.

========================

Meldor made a very good point in his recent post.
Our number one goal with early wars is to get the AI to concede the 1 square island cities - these are still at least 9 squares closer to domination, and we don't have to wait for marines to take them.

:scan:
Still looking for Kazin and a got it - over 24 hours
:scan:

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor
Kazin (currently playing)
>>Must not waste our wonder pre-build.

Lt. 'Killer' M. (on deck)

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

Hmm. What happens now?

Last post by Kazin: Jan 25, 2003 03:02 PM

I would be glad if he'd play, I have little time atm.

By killer
I would be glad if he'd play, I have little time atm.
I don't have time for this tonight either - I have 10 turns of Modern Warfare in the Deity game LK38.
I couldn't play this tonight - I can't swap for tonight.


By Anarres
Hmm. What happens now?
Last post by Kazin: Jan 25, 2003 03:02 PM

Kazin is skipped, and out of the game unless he confirms he is still interested.
You guys beat me to the punch - I had a LK39 skip note for this morning.


LKendter (on deck)
Anarres
Meldor
Kazin (skipped - must confirm to stay in game)
Lt. 'Killer' M. (currently playing)
>>Must not waste our wonder pre-build.

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

got it.

Killer! I got to set you up instead of the other way around. Have fun with the Dyina storming Paris. Maybe this will in some small way make up for those times you did the same for me. I expect you to own Europe by the end of your turn....go get them.

Originally posted by meldor
Killer! I got to set you up instead of the other way around. Have fun with the Dyina storming Paris. Maybe this will in some small way make up for those times you did the same for me. I expect you to own Europe by the end of your turn....go get them.

meldor, thanx!

But what do you mean with 'make up' - I enjoy doing it if I know it will be well-used (and you always do). :D

will post tonight. Some interesting things going on ;)

pre: the Engish island rushes the Temple - neighbouring cities are at three-tile border.

(1) 510 AD

I: Persia starts Sistine.
I decide that Dijon has the making of a capital - for France. larger distance makes me happier and iceland is big enouhg to land normal troops...... So if the Iceland city looks more like a capital than Avignon we may take that risk.

T: move troops as directed.

(2)

I: France and US go for the Iroquese. We quell 3 resistors in Marseilles and get disorder.

T: there's a Bab Knight missing a HP next to Spearman-defended Chartres. i land 3 Dyina and a Pike there (not from the Paris group but from the follow-up) to make use of the weaken defences. Trade WM.

(3)

I: Greece and France go for the Iroqs - will be an exicing time for them :lol: But the french must be spening a lot of dough on the alliances :( The two also aim for India - Jesus Christ!
The bab knight holds off an unknown attacker from the east, then succumbs to a Longbowman. Good for us - 1 unit less in Chartres. Greece and Babylon decide they don't like X-man.

Hombori finishes a cathedral and starts helping out on the war front. Besancons citizens like heir new Temple so much they quite protesting. A Pikeman is ordered to relieve the Dyina on duty.

T: We lose 1 Dynia to a Spear taking Chartres. Approaching Rheims o draw forces from paris area. Will use Galleys on tile south of Marseilles to resupply Europe.

(4)

I: A French Knight and the 2 HP Longbowman kill the Pike guarding Chartres and a 3 HP Dynia - but a Dynia stayed there.
RIGA COMPLETES SISTINE!!!! :eek: :eek: I was hoping for that - it helps a lot with wars.....

T: The French units are taken care of. Two Dyina gp to the iron hill, two land on mountain north of Rheims, the rest next to Paris.

(5)

I: nothing from the French. Plain nothing! Walata has collected a lot of books in a building. They better read up on warfare and riding as now they will form Dyina companies. Busa starts a Collosseum.

T:Paris cost 1 Dyina and gives a promotion. An awefull lot of Dyina retreat (4) before the last 1 HP Pike finally dies. That is he won 12 HP in a row. 1 Defender of Rheims also dies, but as most Dyina would have to cross a river I do not press the attack. new Gao founded. A barbarian dies in greenland. Only TM and max 2 Gold for WM atm.

(6)
I: the French are nuts. without reason they go to war with India. 1 Knight dies, 1 wins with 1 HP attacking paris. GL gives us Printing Press and Gunpowder and Edu.

T: luckily, all Dyina retreat but 1 - Rheims is ours. Compared to that, Lyons is a pushover - only two defenders.

(7)

I: Iros and US make peace. Besancon riots - why... it didn't grow! It only expanded the radius.. Cleo demands money but trolls off when i tell her to shove it. This is strange - didn't she extort during meldors turns....

T: I decide to stop moving troops to Europe. What we have there is enough and i don't like the Egyptian pushy princess' attitude at all....
Virgins don't know about war - orleans is ours. I decide to have the Galley on the western end of Greenland pick up the spear that killed the barbs this turn and head far far west - to Alaska. There's furs there they say. 15 turns, then a harbour - would be nice. Troops go for Tours and also embark for Rouen to threaten the French into giving up the cities we want.
Australia gives us Silks and WM for montheism - that is not too bad methinks. Tours is ours no losses. A Russian Pikam with a deathwish is near Paris. I am usually not known for granting wishes, but i have a weak day. The resistance-free cities in France rush Temples (3).
I spot Poitiers at size 4 deep in Siberia - what a chance to take Rouen!
Decision time: Astronomy can be researched in 7, palace in 7 must be slowed. Max slow without stearving is 27 turns. Should we do that for Copernicus... As we have no leader there is no immediate need to get rid of the prebuild. Bachs can be researched in 6 @ -198.... I would like to get a basic happiness wonde to faciliate conquests. Without running a negative income it is 8 turns. I decide to do that - I have waited for a while now and AIs ahve only gotten to Chemistry, and that one is known to less than half of them.
I close Gibraltar with two Galleys.


(8)

I: nothing! :eek: something is smelling bad here......

T: Quick check with France (they have 4 Dyina next to capital): nope, won't give us Avignon. A moment later the Fench capital Poitiers doesn't have any troops next to it AFAIK :mwaha: :evil:


(9)

I: again nothing! Music Theory goes fom 7 to 5, but noone has it.

T: France still says no to the Avignon deal. oh well.

(10)

I: the US takes the ROP back. US and Persia go for Hammurabi's hide. Lyon flips :mad: Oh well, 1 Dyina lost and there are three to take the town back.

T: Lyon restored to its righfull owner - us! :D As Poitiers is a Mongol town now we should see to it that we get Avignon (capital is now in Grenoble). And Joan agrees - but gives nothing else. oh well, another 20 turns to live for her....


What to do: go for Egypt! Greece might alos be an option, they should also have moved their troops away to war.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39in610AD.zip

I have not traded on the last turn, we might be able to sell Gunpowder for money to France e.g., but before we sell it to anyone the next war should be decided. Woudn't do to give Gunpowder to our next enemy......

How about a map so we lurkers can follow your progress? It's nice reading, but we want visuals :D

Harlequin: on the minimap you can't see anything at all. Even zoomed out, our empire is bigger than the screen. Sorry, if you want to see things you'lL have to load the sav file.



@ meldor: and it was a wonderfull setup! Just perfect :goodjob: :thumbsup:

I see it, but I will be using the full 48 hours.

I will START playing Sunday night.

610 AD (pre-turn) -

1) I don't like what I see for builds at all. I always use the golden age to get infrastructure improvements, yet all were are building is military - time to apply the VETO STAMP big time.
2) We failed to reset our cities, as we don't need clowns in the French cities any more.
I find MAJOR weed - Our palace pre-build is due in absurd 24 turns, but Music Theory completes shortly!
The palace now completes in 6 turns, and mt in 4 turns.
3) I perform a round of rushing in Greenland, to get every thing under culture lock.
4) Not a killer, but I get $80 from map trading.
5) I cancel alliance with Argentina vs. the Aztecs; it does us no good at this point.
6) The Aztecs give us $80 and wm for peace.
7) The Iroquois are pathetic, and can simply offer wm - I do still sign a treaty.
8) I am not ready to break alliances, so war with Russia continues.
9) I get to buy a worker from Egypt, and from France.
10) I ship some weed, along with $15 to India, and he sends 2 workers our way.
11) We upgrade 26 pikeman to musketmen for $1560. Increase military is always a good thing.

(I) France demands our troops leave, I instead convince her to pay US $111 to let them stay.
Brazil and Persia ally vs. Greece.


620 AD - :hmm: Germany still has spears, we have Dynia - we need a leader. :hmm:
(I) I always love seeing meaningless alliances such as France and Greece ally vs. Egypt.
Wait a minute, France got it started - how, I don't know, but Greece fighting Egypt is a good thing.
I guess Greece doesn't like to many wars, as the sign a peace treaty with Persia.
We add Zululand vs. Russia to the list countries fighting.
Our people continue to build us a nice pretty palace.


630 AD - New Timbuktu is formed, and our people continue to expand in Greenland.
More workers show up, just 1 from Persia, but I'll take everyone I can get.
I don't know where the Zulu suddenly got money from, but I sell him useless printing press for $139 leaving him broke.
(I) Argentina wants an alliance vs. the Iroquois - sorry, to early to destroy our rep by breaking 20 turns of peace.
:satan: Germany allies with Persia versus Russia, why do I sense something nasty coming up? :satan:
GACK - Orleans flips back to France! When 20 turns are up, we shall wipe them from this planet - scratch 1 Dynia.
China begins work on Bach :(


640 AD - We can self-research astronomy in 9 turns for 8 * 436 + partial turn 9 = 3488 plus partial turn 9. The pre-haggle price from China is 2958. It is clearly time to shut off research. Maybe one more civ can learn it soon. I take pity on Germany and sell them Republic for $139. Of course they foolishly start a revolt, and are in Anarchy :flamedevi
(I) Add Bach's to our wondrous civilization. [dance]


650 AD - When it rains, it pours. Egypt adds one to our worker force and Babylon adds 2 to the worker force.
(I) Egypt and Babylon ally vs. Persia.
Now this is totally useless - America and Argentina ally vs. Babylon.


660 AD - Greece wants to badly be educated, and they pay us $5/turn, $16, wm, and a worker.
I don't know where all of them are coming from, but I buy a worker from China for $110.
(I) The war craze continues with America and Persia going against Egypt.
The people really like me, and add trees to the front lawn of the palace.


670 AD - New Jenne is build, and Greenland is further locked as a Songhai exclusive continent.
The price of Astronomy has dropped, and I buy it from India for $2275. That is much better then $3000+ is would cost for self-research. I upgrade 12 galleys to caravel.
:confused: Egypt has a Greek worker for sale, but I still gladly buy it.
(I) The war craze continues with Australia and Persia fighting Egypt.
:cry: Our golden age has ended :cry


680 AD - Germany sneers at my hollow threats, so war begins with Germany. I want a leader to rush the palace in Paris. 18 Dynia march on Berlin - Bismarck should have listened.

Our new dyes come on-line, and we use some immediately. The Mongols are lacking Astronomy, so we send Astronomy, Incense, and Dyes to the Mongols, and we get Chemistry, wm and $6 in return. I ship Dyes to Persia for $160, wm. I ship dyes to Brazil for $24/turn, $30, and wm. I ship dyes to India for $305, and wm - this is enough money to rush a harbor and get more dyes available. The final dyes for now go to China for $18/turn, $13 and wm. I also rushed 2 workers in Greenland to speed up getting more dyes on-line. I love having an exclusive resource.
(I) Russia and Egypt sign a peace treaty.


690 AD - Berlin and Hamburg are now ours.
I think it is just a large settlement force from Zulu crossing our borders, but I send our reserve Dynia stack to Busa being paranoid.
We net over $100 for selling the world maps of new water.


700 AD - We begin the advance on the only two other Germany towns we care about, and the Russian borders are spotted.
We finally find a use for the final dyes - I ship them to Babylon for worker, $28 and wm.


Summary - This was a working buying Frenzy turn, but we can't have enough. We only have one working in Europe, and we still have jungle to clear. Plus we have the human advantage of knowing desert with rails and water supports two food, so it can't hurt to do this ahead of time.

Explore the seas, and we can start raking huge world map sales again.

The palace pre-build is for SMITH'S. As soon as banking price gets reasonable to purchase (at least no gpt), we should go at maximum research of Smith's. I hope the observatory breaks the cascade again.
Banking is currently available from Persia, Brazil, America, India, and China.


LKendter
Anarres (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Kazin (skipped - must confirm to stay in game)
Lt. 'Killer' M.
.
Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39-700AD.zip

some thoughts on Lee's comments:

I don't like what I see for builds at all. I always use the golden age to get infrastructure improvements, yet all were are building is military -

--> Yep, I should have build more, I saw to some Cathedrals and marketplaces but was too focused on the Egypt peril. Final turns I didn't change anything that was due AFTER my turn were over because Dyina is cheaper than the things you might want to change to......

I find MAJOR weed - Our palace pre-build is due in absurd 24 turns, but Music Theory completes shortly!
The palace now completes in 6 turns, and mt in 4 turns.

Read my post above! I let it open for you to decide what to do!

4) Not a killer, but I get $80 from map trading.

Yes, with us no longer at war that is to be expected, as I got the same every 2nd turn. Sadly, if you refuse a peace talk they AI will often only give TM for WM until you do talk to your victim - that is what happened during my last 4 turns...... I did check around every turn.

I was surprised you bothered to comment about just building military. I thought my line that "I always use the golden age" was good enough. This was simply stating my preferences. It did go well, as we now have multiple cathedrals, some libraries, more marketplaces, safety harbor connecting Europe by sea, a few granaries in slow growing cities, etc. In fact, some cities went back to military and every city has at least one musket. I spent the fortunate to upgrade to muskets to help the military. I even parked a few Dynia in Greenland in case the AI gets an attitude.


I must have missed the palace comment, or forgot it. It doesn't matter, as we got Bach. I just hopes Annares is just as wonderful.


Actually tm for wm occurs because you have to little to give that improves there knowledge of the world. My map trading value started going up the second we got astronomy and I have ships exploring the ocean.

I have seen this, but will not be able to start until Tues evening (GMT). Hope this isn't too much of an issue.

I will do my best to get Smith's :)

I noticed we have loads of active trades - is there anyone left to go to war with apart from Germany?

Do people think we should build up infrastructure in cities, start another fight, something else?

@anarres - We should still be at war with Russia. Germany would be a perfect target asap.

@Lee - What happened to the ships sailing for the Indian ocean? Did they pick up a settler or two. We need to get some going, I hate to think of all of those little islands and marines, although we have done it before.

[EDIT] @Killer - Glad you enjoyed the feast. I was actually intending to do it better, but France tipped my hand. I see, you didn't take Germany while you were at it. I would have thought you would have wanted to be turned into a native Songhai :lol:

Uh, we *ARE* at war with Germany. I already took to cities - I just couldn't resist Dynia vs. Spearman. From there we really want to put *EVEN TECH* Russia down a couple of notches before Cossacks arrive, as we can't go beyond there for now.

As for next war target, it will be selected for us most likely. You may see an AI "sneak" attack from the Zulu this turn.

We are still at war with Russia.

We *NEED* some settlers and ships to the Indian Ocean and the pacific islands. I pushed fast building while I had a chance.

Originally posted by anarres
I have seen this, but will not be able to start until Tues evening (GMT). Hope this isn't too much of an issue.


That isn't a problem. I push the deadlines so that people keep everyone up to date on what is happening.

The game is starting to be typical world map and slow down, so if you finish 5 turns on Tue post the 5 turns and to be continued.

Originally posted by LKendter
Actually tm for wm occurs because you have to little to give that improves there knowledge of the world. My map trading value started going up the second we got astronomy and I have ships exploring the ocean.

I have to disagree here: I got good money for the map (a weak turn at around 10-20 and a strong turn at around 50-60 alternating) until the French wanted to talk and I said no. The map did actually change as I took cities and usually the AI will pay; they paid extra after the first French towns fell...


I know the usual phenomenon, but here it shouldnät have applied....

:scan:
@anarres
Looking for signs of life. It you finish 5 turns, please post that with a note "to be continued". These turns are slow, and I don't like the game to drop off radar.

I am here LK. The tourney suddenly needed my full attention last night (results got published for season 3), I'm really sorry :rolleyes:

Expect a turn report by midnight (should be the full 10 turns).

Is the 48hrs normally from the last turns update, or from the 'I got it' time? I realise now that it's probably the first option...

700AD (preturn): Thankyou LK, you left me 2 nice bigs stacks oy Dyina next to the last 2 German cities. :D Marseilles changed to courthouse from cathedral. The French cities building courthouses will be changed the second we get a Leader.

I just noticed the French cities all have 4 or 5 French citizens and maybe 1 or 2 of ours :eek: For me it is normal practice to starve all cities down to size 1 or 2, unless I have the units to fortify in them (or position just outside). There is more than a slim chance of another French city flipping, but starving now will waste the growth we have in them now. In the end I decide to leave them, we will just have to wait for the treaty to finish (11 turns) before we take back any flipped cities.

AI: India and Persia sign a Military Alliance against Egypt.

710 (1): Take Konisberg and Leipzig from the Germans. I am going to starve all the German cities to size 2 max, then make peace. These Dyina's are powerful :)

Buy Banking from India for 2275 gold.
Banking to Egypt for 23 gpt and 50 gold.
Banking to Mongols for 28 gpt and 57 gold.
Chemistry to France for 20 gpt and 39 gold.
Make 193 gold from wm trading.

Set science to Economics, 80%. We will get there in 8 turns.

AI: Russia and Zulu make peace.
America and India sign MA against Greece.
Babs and India sign MA against Egypt and Greece.
Mongols and India sign MA against Egypt.
Germany and India sign MA against Greece.
Zulu and Babs sign MA against Persia.
Germany and Babs sign MA against Argentina.
Brazil and America sign MA against Babs,
Aztecs and Persia sign MA against Babs.

720AD (2): Nothing much to report. I am contemplating taking out Moscow, just to reallt piss off the Russians, but maybe I will take the sensible option and try to pick off his units one at a time and try to get a Leader. I get 3 Russian to take out this turn. Do lots and lots of micomanagement.

AI: Persia and India sign against France.
Germany and Persia against Egypt and France.

730AD: (3) Found New Koumbi Saleh in the very NW of the map. There are dyes here, and as soon as I can build a worker we can road the one tile I need. Since we will need a harbour anyway I will rush it next turn. This will allow it to grow 9 turns sooner as well, getting us the lux 9 turns earlier.

Buy a worker from the Babs for 118 gold. Get Gems and 14 gold from the Aztecs for Chemistry.

Get 120-ish from WM trading

AI:Germany and Babs sign MA against Brazil.
Argina and Babs sign MA against the Greeks,
Argentina and Persia sign MA against Egypt.

740AD: (4) There are 2 Irquois galleys near Greenland. I am giong to block them with ships and land units. Settler found s New Walata in Greenland. Rush Harbour in New Koumbi Saleh.

Buy worker from China for 108 gold.

AI: The Chinese sneak attack us at Leipzig! We lose 2 Dyina, the lose 4 Riders. They also land 2 Riders at our fur-city New Koumbi Saleh. :eek:
Persia and Argentina sign MA against Irquois.
Argentina and Persia sign MA against Zulu

The Chinese invasion:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.740AD.Chinese1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.740AD.Chinese2.jpg

Notes: New Koumbi Saleh is lost at the end of the turn. I will disband it. This is especially bad as I just rushed a harbour after 1 turn production. :cry:

The Riders in old Germany can be taken out, I have been picking off the odd unit in the hopes of getting a Leader, but nothing so far. I am moving musketmen and workers up from our heartlands to europe, there are several on route.

The caravels have been uncovering the Atlantic. Several civs have navigation however, so the map is not worth as much as it could be.

Here is the save from the beginning of turn 750AD, I have not traded this turn or moved any units.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.LK39.750AD.zip

I am happy for someone else to take it as I am well over my time, and I will not be able to play again until 8pm GMT (Thursday). I am not dropping out, and I will finish the turns if no-one else takes them, but I am aware of the delay I have caused...

Note:
The correct link is
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.750AD.zip

================================

LKendter
Anarres (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Kazin (skipped - must confirm to stay in game)
Lt. 'Killer' M.

@Anarres - It is expected that these games will go multiple days as time goes on. The rest of us have played these before and know how slow the game gets after awhile.

What I expect is exactly what you did - post the 5 turns completed, and then you finish tomorrow.

=============================
Turn one allianance notifications :flamedevi

:rolleyes: China :rolleyes:
I think it is time to get some players fighting China.

FYI - Don't sell economics please. I expect to break the Astronomy cascade at the end of your turn.

One more thing. Copernicus' Observatory can be switched to Smiths. It has 4 turns left at CO, but we can switch the Palaece pre-build to CO, then CO to palace build, then finally to Smith's when it is researched.

CO will not break the wonder cascades since several civs have navigation (Mallegan's), and will simply switch to that instead.

What do people think?

750AD: I take out the 2 Chinese Riders near our German cities. I am tempted to make peace with Russia in exchange for going to war against the Chinese, but we really need a Great Leader, so I will hold off for a couple of turns and see if I can get one. I have had many elite wins, but nothing :(

I move the spearman out from New Koumbi Saleh, and give the city to the Mongols. At least this way the Chinese would be commiting suicide by attacking and taking the city. The Mongols border a significant stretch of the Chinese border.

Change Koumbi Saleh from Palace to Copernicus
Change Arwan from Copernicus to Palace

Sell Astronomy to the Greeks for 12 gpt and 56 gold.
Sell Astronomy to France for 24 gpt and 30 gold
Get 9 gpt and 30 gold from the Americans for Dyes
Get 13 gpt and 20 gold for Dyes to the Aztecs

Get 120 gold from WM trading.

AI: Russia and Mongols sign peace treaty
Austalia and Egypt sign peace treaty
Austalia and Persia sign MA against France

760AD: Kill a lone Russian Knight. Rush a temple in Rouen, it needs culture quick. Rush settler in Awlil (Greenland). If we manage to block the Irquois Galleys still trying to land there we must quickly fill in the unclaimed coastline.

AI: Lose a Dynia to the Russians.
Greece and Persia against Zulu

770AD: Lose another Dynia, kill 2 Russian longbows and 2 knights. Rushed temples in Konisburg and Leipzig (ex-German cities).

I check the diplo to see how long is left with the Persians against the Russians, the 20 turns over, and we are giving them Incense for it as well, so I cancel the agreement. Unfortunately America must have found their own source as I can sell it to them afterwards. Make 120ish gold again from WM trades (mostly from Brazil's WM).

AI: India and France sign peace treaty.
Irquois and Argentina sign peace treaty

Zulu units move next to Pusa. There is a large defensive force in Pusa, so there is no chance of it falling. I have also seen lots more Zulu units moving north in to the Egyptian lands.

We just lost our supply of silks, I don't even know who that was with.

780AD: I turn on 'always renegotiate deals' in the preferances screen. Rush temple in New Timbuktu (Greenland), to help grab coastline. The blocking game continues with the Irquois:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.780AD.Blocking.jpg

The war with the Russians is not going too well as we have lost several Dyina now. I can only pray for a Leader.

AI: Egypt and Greece sign peace treaty, and 2 Chinese Riders appears from the Sahara :eek:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.780.China.jpg

790AD: Research Economics, switch Arwan from palace to Smaith's. I kill the two Riders with 2 Dyina's that were passing through on their way to Egypt. They are now grarding NW Africe, and some Riders are leaving the Zulu frongline to come and defend out natio.

I have to finish a turn early this time through, as I am too tired to carry on (I have to be at work in a few hours).

Comments: Russia is ready to sign a peace treaty, and even declare war on the Chinese :) I was however waiting for a leader, and still think it is worth doing so.

Although the Chinese are evil and must die a horrible death, I think a defensive war would be better at the moment, allowing time to recouperate and build some more units and improvements.

I have not traded this turn, and it needs to be done. Science has not been set this turn, we have jsut researched economics.

Save Game (790AD) (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.790AD.zip)

I turn on 'always renegotiate deals' in the preferances screen.

I will have to remember to shut that off during my turn. I feel it is broken, as the trade occurs during the AI turn. If will renogiate deals that you DON'T want to.


=============================

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor (currently playing)
Please switch Arwan to Smith's

Kazin (DROPPED - we have an opening for another player)
Lt. 'Killer' M. (on deck)

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

Got it in line as soon as I finish Hot2. Things shouldn't be as bad this weekend as they were the last. Should be through by Saturday night CST.

I am now reentering sucession games. This mod looks very interesting and I would like to sign up.

@naervod -
Have you played on huge maps before?

Sorry about not explicity saying that Arwan was for Smiths. It is, and there are about 8 or 9 turns left before it can complete.

@LK- Huge maps are my favorite, especially world maps.

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor (currently playing)
Naevrod (on deck)
Lt. 'Killer' M.

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

:scan:
Looking for a least a partial progress report from Meldor
I don't see the Saturday night update
:scan:

Sorry, I am playing it now. Everyone was sick. so I am behind. Should post sometime before the end of the day.

790 AD (pre-turn)
A quick review of the diplomatic scene:
War with China, they rufuse to talk at this point. Might be nice to get someone to beat up on them.
War with Germany, they will give us Brandonberg and Dortmond for peace. I see no reason to continue this one.
War with Russia, she will give us two workers but no tech and no cities. Maybe she needs more time to think about it.
There is a lot of gpt on the table from the AI's. Too much to pass up as it won't stay there for long. Better it comes into our treasury. So here are the deals.....
Brazil get Economics for Navigation, 93gpt and 175g
Zulus get Economics for 54gpt and an Alliance vs the Chinese.
France gets Economics for 50gpt and 27g
Egypt gets Economics for 30gpt and 23g
America gets Ecomonics for 23gpt and 100g
India gives us metallurgy for Economics, 33gpt, 504g, and alliance vs. Chinese.
Zulus get dyes for 16gpt and 60g.
Austrailia get Banking for silks, this is not major weed as it will put most cities in WLT(Meldor)D giving a big production boost.
Summary we for Economics and 179g we get Navigation, Metalurgy, 217gpt, and two people fighting the Chinese.
It is six turns to Smith's and we should have a lock on it.
I see a spot with furs that hasn't been settled yet, I will try and send a unit to Alaska with a settler. I rush a settler in Greenland for this purpose. I swap Walata from a bank to Magellan's Voyage due in 20. Cop's is due in ten in Koumbi Saleh.
Science is set to Physics in 10 turns. I would like to grab Newton's in Koumbi Saleh to go with Cop's. The only cities that would make good pre-build canidates are building banks, I let them continue.
(I) We get 500 zulu knights, ok not that many, but since we don't have a lot of protection in some cities it seems like it. It looks like they are after Arwan. Several civs start Smith's but we will finish Smith's before either of the other to wonders in progress so there is no casade danger. The Chinese start Magellan's.

800 AD (1)
I begin shifting units towards Arwan. I ask the Zulu to leave again, and they do. The choice takes them about 5 seconds. That is a long time for the AI to think it over, the choice must be pretty close. I stat upgrading some of the obsolete units we have to help out. I think about rushing a musket in either Dortmund or Brandenburg, but they just aren't worth it.
(I) Again with the Zulus, what is the deal? This time though it looks like they are moving through and not to a city. France and the Iroquopis make nice with a peace treaty. France and Egypt do the same. Brazil starts Magellan's. A Chinese spear appears near Paris and a hurt rider near Leipzig

810 AD (2)
I look into an ROP with the Zulu just to tip the scales, but he won't do it unless we give him Metallurgy, no thanks. We ask him to leave again, and he does. Settler is loaded into a boat for Alaska. Probably a waste of time, but it gives me something to do! Insence to India for 18gpt and 15g. Greece gets WM for 2gpt and 4g. They also get insence for 36g and 4gpt. Shaka gets Metalurgy for 44gpt. Dyes to Cathy for 4gpt and 32g. I live sucking up every last gpt the AI has....we could run 100% science and still have a +188gpt income.
(I) Again with the Zulu! The hurt chinese rider kills itself on a Dyina and the spear turns and runs from them as well.

820 AD (3)
We off the Chinese spear. I let the Zulus slide for a turn, just to see if they are going to attck or are just passing through. I have enough troops in any city they can reach so it will be safe for one turn anyway. I pick up a Zulu worker and see that at least two civs now have Democracy. That would be nice. Using the 428gpt income I rush some things.
(I) After I had just rushed a defender in Dortmund, I watch in shock as a Chinese rider bypasses our empty city headed back home. Something pretty important to them must be under siege. The Zulus continue across our lands, but it looks as if they are headed north now. The Babys manage to land a settler and pike in Greenland but not near where they can settle so we will play ring around the rosie with them.

830 AD (4)
Lot's of boring stuff. I continue to allow the Zulu to move across.
(I) France and Germany sign a peace treaty. Fance and China sign an alliance against us. Say Bye-Bye Joan. I knew those high gpt values would force her to declare. The Aussies start Smith's. Brazil and Greece make peace. Hopefully they are better at it than they were at their war. France declares war on Argentina? Babylon and America sign a peace treaty. France makes peace with Persia. Our stinking former French cities riot because of the war and of course there is nothing to be done.

840 AD (5)
Man o' man Joanie goes nuts....well I load up 2 Caravels with 6 Dyina to head for her capital. I nail a pike/settler of hers to give us two more workers. I make sure no more cities will riot. Wake up more Dyina and send them towards Orleans. Babylon finds some cash and get Metalurgy for 10g and 37gpt.
(I) The stinking Babs form a city in Greenland right were they stand. It will be interesting to see exactly what resouce show up there. We get Smith's.

850 AD (6)
I back away from the Bab city for now, it isn't worth a fight to get rid of it FOR NOW. BTW, there were no cascades from Smith's as predicted. Cop's is due is 4, Magellans in 14. I send a Caravel to pick up a settler for the mid-atlantic island. I guess no settlers were sent to the pacific as we have no ship even close. I found another fishing village in Greenland. It has a fish now and a game when the borders expand.
(I) Egypt and China sign ally against us! China gets Austrilia to ally against the Zulu. The Chinese then come to us asking for peace! Not a chance, we still have an alliance with India, besides, it sounds as if things are getting rough for you. Brazil beats us to Cop's by two stinking turns! The Zulu start Magellan's. The Zulu having captured Argos turn around and head back. The Egyptians nab a couple of our workers.

860 AD (7)
I switch Koumbi Soleh to a palace so we can at leaast get Newton's. I kill the offending egyptian knight and take our workers back, on top of that I nail one of her's that was easy to get. I then attack the nearest Egyptian city, but a musket fortified on a hill is going to tough for our Dyinas. I cover workers were needed. Wake up the rest of our offense and head for Abydos and Giza. Both those cities contain her only sources of iron.
(I) Argentina and Germany sign a peace treaty. Australia signs with China against India. The Chinese take Dortmund. Germany and Russia decide to try peace. Australilia and France try peace. Greece and India go for peace. Babylon and Brazil go for peace.

870 AD (8)
We fail to take Giza, but we capture Abydos and another source of Iron and Saltpeter. As a bonus we get a Cat and one more worker. Oh yea, I wake up the musket on whale island, kill off the warrior and take to more workers.
(I) Persia and China sign against India. Mongolia and Egypt sign a peace treaty. America and Persia sign against India. WE get Physics and I go for Military Tradition next at 90% in 7 turns with a +200gpt cash flow.

880 AD (9)
How do you kill a 2.4.1 Musket who is fortified on a hill in a city? You send two suicidal MDI after them! One wins, the other dies but not before taking the last musket down to 1 hp. A dyina attacks and takes the city without a scratch. We get Lisht and 2 workers. It looks like the French took a spear and two longbows out of their last city to try and take our city in England. Too bad they won;t be there to defend it against the 6 Dyinas that just landed next to it. Kill off a couple of stray Egyptian Knights. I rush some infrastructure to get them working on Dyinas. The stinking city of Giza refuses to yield. I have lost 4 Dyina and 1 MDI and maybe put one hp of damage. I am not attacking across a river. I will pull back gather some more troops and try again....or maybe the next person will.
(I) America and China sign an alliance against the Zulu. The great Iroquois/Greek war comes to an end. Babylon and Brazil sign an alliance against Germany.

890 AD (10)
We attack the French capital and who should appear? Muhammed! Looks like we will have the capital in Europe sooner than I thought. The (He, He) solid French no longer infect our lands. Grenoble is ours. I kill a stray Egyptian archer but not much is happening on that front. A lot of the cities are now building Dyinas so that should start to move. If we can take Giza, they won't be able to build Knights unless they buy iron from someone else. We should probably not stop against Egypt until we wipe them off of Africa. I was tempted to bring the Zulus in on our side against Egypt but they had too many troops up there and I didn't want to make the Zulu any stronger.

There are two settlers on a caravel that are on their way to settle the two small islands in the Atlantic. Don't forget them. We may want to peal a settler somewhere in Eurpoe to act as a filler near orleans.

Our economy is in great shape, running 90% science for MT and still pulling +212gpt. After MT I would go for ToG and snap Newtons. Do not build the palace in Europe until we can use our palace pre-build for Newtons.
Magellans is due in 10 if we don't get beat to it. We sill soon hit steam and then it will get fun. Don't trade the tech unless we can get two for one or really soak in the cash. We don't want the tech race to go too fast. Otherwise Lee has nightmares.

I have done no end of turn trading.

LK39 890 AD Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.890AD.zip)

Oh yea, the leader is on a caravel with the dyina off the english coast.

The silliness of random resources
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-261.jpg

==================================

It is six turns to Smith's and we should have a lock on it.
Well, we got lucky. With all of fighting going on the AI could have leader rushed Smith's. I finally saw for a fact it happens, as I saw a leader generated. The next turn a wonder completed in the city I saw the leader move toward.

==================================

Do not build the palace in Europe until we can use our palace pre-build for Newton's.
I agree, I hate to tie up a leader that long, but the pre-build it to for along to switch to anything else.
Paris is still a great place for a palace.

==================================

War with Egypt, and China :rolleyes:
What a mess. I hope it calms down by the time we are ready to factories.

==================================

Hmmm....
America somehow got Sippar that has Iron and Saltpeter.
You know, 100% control of England sounds nice.
What a minute, didn't I just conflict with my comment above? :confused:

==================================

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor
Naevrod (currently playing)
Lt. 'Killer' M. (on deck)

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

Got it.

Originally posted by LKendter
It is six turns to Smith's and we should have a lock on it.
Well, we got lucky. With all of fighting going on the AI could have leader rushed Smith's. I finally saw for a fact it happens, as I saw a leader generated. The next turn a wonder completed in the city I saw the leader move toward.

I really didn'[t think about a leader. That was my weed. I was more concerned over the chance of someone cascading to Smnith's and getting that turn. My only excuse is that it was a bad weekend. It was too much to pass up all of that gpt that was on the table. It really boosted our infrastructure and allowed us to rush a lot of things while keeping caught up in research. Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good.

Do not build the palace in Europe until we can use our palace pre-build for Newton's.
I agree, I hate to tie up a leader that long, but the pre-build it to for along to switch to anything else.
Paris is still a great place for a palace.
I still think a position slightly farther east is better. I like Orleans myself but I won't put up a big fight. I would rather get the have the capital closer to all that land we are going to take in eastern europe than have it closer to all that water. Your game though.

As far as keeping the leader, two ways to go. Kepp him for the 15 or so turns to get ToG and build Newton's. Or build an Army, get it into action, get HE and hope we get another leader in the 4-5 turns we have left over or shortly thereafter. A tough call. Depends how lucky you think we will be. I think we are entering the phase were we will be at war for the reswt of the game, so I think we will have leaders galore for the rest of the game. Once egypt is taken out, we should just turn south and take the Zulu next. Then it becomes the usual slugfest of however is next in the way.

War with Egypt, and China :rolleyes:
What a mess. I hope it calms down by the time we are ready to factories.

There won't be total peace for the rest of the game. Not untiul we ram it down their throats.

I was only able to play four turns because of other commitments.

This turn was a lot of diplomacy and fighting. Sucess came in the north, but the war in the south went a little less smoothly at the beginning, but the Egyptian defenses weakened as the game progressed.

900 AD-

India and Babylon sign an alliance vs. Argentina. Egyptian knight raids into our territory and kills a Dyina. One of our Dyinas is killed on a counter-attack near El-Amarna. Egyptian longbowman killed by Dyina near Giza while at the city, a Dyina kills a Pikeman defending the city.

910 AD-

Egyptian Knight attacking at Abydos is destroyed. At Giza, one attacker dies and another is repulsed (both Dyinas).

920 AD-

Russia and China have signed an alliance against us! This might be a problem, but we were able to sign an alliance with Greece against Russia for free. Argentina and Babylon have made peace. Rioting occurs in Lisht. An Egyptian Knight kills a Dyina outside El-Amarna.

930 AD-

Iroquois offer alliance against Persia and we accept to keep them happy. After all, we might need them if we intend on fighting America, however we rebuke an Aztec offer of an alliance against Australia. Our supply of Gems is lost. Veteran Dyina is promoted to Elite after winning an attack near El-Amarna, while an attack near the Egyptian city of Alexandria is repulsed. Attacks at Giza kill two Musketmen defending the city. The best Egyptian defender is now a regular spearman.

Muhammed is currently stationed in Paris, awaiting orders.
No new wonders completed by any nations.
It is discovered that the Zulu have taken the southeren Atlantic island we were planning on taking. The caravel with two settelers is on the way to the northeren island. Two options for the second settler are the island west of Africa or as a filler near Orleans.
In terms of diplomacy, I think we should try to attack Persia if we can, but focus most of our might on Egypt. After they are destroyed, recommended targets are: Russia (already at war), Persia (already at war), and America (not yet at war). If we fight America, Iroquois help would be all but vital. Against Russia, we already have Greek help, and Mongol help might be nice. Against Persia, Babylon and India might be able to help.

I turn it over to the next player:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.930AD.zip

Iroquois offer alliance against Persia and we accept to keep them happy.
Did they pay us for the alliance? We really don't need more enemies. Either way, it is better to make the deal on our turn so that we know what type of outstanding deals we have.

===============================

@Naevrod - for future reference, in latter turns the 48-hour rules really doesn't apply. Just as long you post partial updates as your turn turns go along.
==================================

Note: Naevrod didn't do the last turn of research slider check; we can reduce to 70% for one turn. We can always use more cash.

==================================

LKendter (on deck)
Anarres
Meldor
Naevrod
Lt. 'Killer' M. (currently playing)

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report.
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

got it

This is a tough one as far as strategic decisions are concerned.

preturn:

Egypt MUST GO soon! They are a real pain in the ass for resupply to the northeast. This is all ****ed up, babylon controls the Suez and we cabnnot afford a war with them because of culture.... but that I hope will change soon, as China and some other 'right hand' (F8) civs grow. Babylon have NOT expanded their culture lead. Brazil is growing.....

Also, the two cities they have in Saharan Africa are an insult to the eye.

Find some Dyina and Muskets to approach El-Amarna. A=5 now vs. A=6 in two turns - I say we go, then upgrade the wounded units healing them in the process....

The Russian front is TOTALLY UNDEFENDED!!!!! :eek: Why do we have a fresh alliance against them with Greece? The will murder us! I rush a Musketman each in Leipzig and Konigsberg. Another one in orleans to allow three Dyina to move to the front. I do not like spending all that money but the Russian front isn't a front, it is an open door! And we don't even have an ROP with Greece!
Science spending reduced.

As we will soon ungrade all our elites I will NOT use the leader for an army.


(1) I: Our two exposed hurt Dyina die to Knights, at least taking one to 1 HP. A Musteman kills a Longbowman.

T: Military Tradition found, ToG in 7 @ 90% (100% is 7, too). We take El-Amarna at the last HP of the last Dyina.

Upgrade about 12 Dyina, bring others as close to cities as possible.

The Russian front is TOTALLY UNDEFENDED!!!!! Why do we have a fresh alliance against them with Greece?

OUCH!
@Naevrod - I am curious, what were you looking for with the Greek alliance? It sounds like we should have been moving toward peace with Russia. The human player key is one enemy at a time.

Killer, you job is a phony war with Russia! If you sign no new alliances, I will get us peace treaties with some of our enemies.

ToG in 7 @ 90% (100% is 7, too).
This sounds good - 8 turns to we can move the capital to Paris.
We can really us the production increase in Europe in time for factories to come on-line.

Originally posted by naervod
Iroquois offer alliance against Persia and we accept to keep them happy.

I suddenly realized the above may have violated the standard LK game rules -
Declaring War to break trade deals

Please make sure all future alliance are NOT signed inter-turn. Thanks.

still (1):

find two fortified Dyina near Giza and decide that that Spearman is in for a surprise. But it is me who is surprised, he kills the first Dyina outright. Well, No2 takes care of that. Egypt now has only 1 Horse left, no more iron and only one ivory at Pithom. :evil:

I check up on the workers and bundle them onto a few tiles. otherwise, if get a war with Zulu none will have finished and all they did is lost as we will have to move them.

i also expose a worker to draw Egypts Knight away from our wounded Dyina next to El-Alamein, errr, El-Amarna. :lol:

(2) I: Russia goes to war with India. Russia buys Germany into war with us :mad: 1 Russian Knight attacks Konigsberg and finds strange little holes in his armour. He decides to have them looked at and retreats. Then, India allies with Germany against Russia :crazyeyes: Babylon kicks or troops out (in greenland I think, 1 Galley). Argentina and Brazil ally against Germany (yes, them krauts send a shipload of bad sauerkraut!)
An Egyptian Lonbowman dies, the Knight, too, but another lonboeman takes our Musketman out who covered the Dyinas.
Riots in Lyon - this is WW kicking in

T: we have a few new Cavalry in El-Amarna (upgrad of wounded units). Since the Europe situation was not wuite as bad as I thought we will have a stack of 10 Cavalry availabvle to take Moscow or Kiev in 2 turns.
Found New Gwandu on the wheat in the middle of the Atlantic.

more tomorrow

Actually, it was not I who declared war on Russia, trust me, I would never want to take on Russia, but unfortunately China got Russia into the war with us. Also, I did not realize about the alliance would be breaking the deal. Sorry about the rocky first play by me. :(

Originally posted by naervod
Actually, it was not I who declared war on Russia, trust me, I would never want to take on Russia, but unfortunately China got Russia into the war with us. Also, I did not realize about the alliance would be breaking the deal. Sorry about the rocky first play by me. :(


naervod, what shocked me was NOT the war with Russia, but the Alliance with Greece against them as we are now NOT capable to force Russia to peace..

Luckily, the upgrade to Cavalry makes our units move faster and I got a stack there in time....

(3) I: the Zulu have Cavalry :eek: they are passing through Egypt with whom they have an ROP and through our lands. Egypt doesn't really do anything, not even attack the Musketman blocking their Saltpeter.
More fu*king WW :mad: a number of cities riots, assign entertainers.

T: Alexander the great use3d to give cities his name. Well, so do I. Alexandria becomes Henrytown, costing us nothing and only orcing 1 retreat. I use a wounded Med Inf to go for an Egyptian knight on a hill across a river to hopefully weaken him enouhg to use a Cavalry on him - instead, the Med Inf kills him and promotes. Who am I to complain?
Egypt now has onyl 1 Saltperter left, the other is taken care of. A stack of Cav is ready ofr Kiev next turn, then should swing clockwise for Moscow, St. Petersburg and Odessa (I do not have means to reinforce and that is decidedly the best the stack can ever do, so I do not plan on a longer Russian campaign).
The defenders of Hoeraconpolis fight well, a Pike and a Spear each ifght a Cav down to 1 HP - but to no avail. They die and the town is ours.
Physics has surfaced with Argentina and will be traded around soon, I sell it to all who have something to offer: Brazil gives two lux (good against WW) and 114 Gold per turn and about 300 cash (where did they get that from?), the Zulu give 200 cash and 33 per turn. Noone else has anything to offer except demo that is extremely expensive and we cannot use it anyways with our current WW.

(4) I: as I feared, more Zulu troops. I will see if they want a ROP. Then, two Cossacks show up, luckily both have to retreat. Die, Cathy, die!
Greece kicks us out, I had placed a Musket in their lands to try and force a ROP but they refuse :(
Our courageous 2HP elite Med Inf kills a Longbowman :D the rest of Egypts moves is homewards bound :)
WW does not increase. The Iroquese start Magellans, unless they get a leader it is ours in 2.

T: Kiev costs us 1 Cav. Mop up wounded Cossacks or not? I decide we really really nned the Cav for attacks, thus use Musketmen. Moscow - well, it is a capital, so no chance to go for it with the remaining 5 Cav. Move them into Kiev.

(5) I: China and Zulus make peace - Persia should REALLY be on the lookout now. Russia shows up and ask for peace, no cities involved.
Lose 1 defending Cav to Egyptian Knight.

Occupied towns Kiev and Henrytown go revolt because of quelled resisters

T: a Cavalry dies attacking Edfus last defender. I risk all and use a full-health Musketman to go for the 2 HP Musket - and win [party] Bengal and Pithom are now cut off from the rest of Egypts empire.
I am an idiot - I use a 1-move Cav to go for a Longbowman next to Kiev. Now the Cav is healthy but exposed - fu*k!
I see that we can cut Russias Saltpeter no sweat, the only source is near Dneperpetrokvs. A settler and two Musketmen and no more Cossacks. Rush settler in Lyons, musket in Hamburg and Berlin. Caravel is already near.

(6) I: Zulu and Persia make peace!!!!! Shakaboy is running out of enemies - we are weak and exposed. Fu*k fu*k fu*k!
We get magellans. Brazilians promptly start Shakespeares Theater.

T: Physics to ussies to ensure a steady stream of silks. Their map is boring, but what the hell, i take it along with the silks.
byblos has only 1 defender... errrrr, had. I can't believe my luck - Buto is in range because it has not expanded borders yet. The Musket in it kills an elite Cav though :( Memphis falls, taking two Cav along, now a cav from Henrytown can again reach Buto. A 1 HP Musketman should not be a problem. but he is :mad: Kills a healthy vet Cav.

Kill some Russians, two more turns and they are without Slatperter :D
I will not be able to hold memphis, only 1 wouded Cav in it 8that took it) and a longbowman next to it. Contact Egypt - they will NOT give democracy - OK, the city will be ours soon again.

forgot to mention: Kiev brings spices along :D

rest later, tried kicking PHs ass in online MP and got lag trouble so confusing I quit :(

I will be gone for a week, so skip me until this coming Saturday.

(7) I: Nothing from Russia - well, i killed several troops last turn. Greece and the Aztecs go for the Aussies - I hope their troops like long boat trips :lol: The Egyptian Lonbowman dies!!!! YES!!!!! China starts Shakespeares, too.

T: first things first: take Buto. the sucker costs us another 2(!) Cavarly, but the town falls. I keep it despite a very sucky placement, but i want to keep babylon from settling anohter annyoing city there. 2 out of 2 residents resist - well, that must have been what inspired the Musketman - support from the inhabitants! Now we are streched like 'too little butter on too much bread' in Egypt :(

Russia has no more Saltpeter, one more town to found city.
Spend 136 Gold on Cathedral in Paris - next turn will bring ToG and palace rushing in Paris :D



I do somthing that I really don't know about, possibly the :smoke:iest thing I have ever done intentionally, but I see our weak defences and the Zulu troops and no way to stop them, and I do it: I buy Shaka into an alliance against Persia. Xerxes is beyond Babylon (and at war with them), beyond Russia (and at war with them if I read the thread right) so it shouldn't harm us at all and keep the Zulus busy. the price is surprisingly modest, adn drops if I add ROP - WM and 560 Gold flat out.

The only drawback is that this makes Democracy less desirable - but we are 'in no condition to fu*k' anyways (PM me if you don't get this).

(8) I: Argentina and Greece make peace. Same for Argentina and India.... China and Brazil decide that Germany should not exist any longer - they MUST really hate sauerkraut....

Magnetism in 6 @ 100% - I want Riflemen if the others have Cavalry!
at least - Edfu temple's under its own power :p.

T: Newtons wastes 272 shields. palace rushed in paris. Guano Ghetto founded on the Russian saltpeter (must be bat droppings). Avaris is ours (no losses), 6 Cavalry take Moscow (1 lost). I hurry Temple in kiev and 2 musketmen in Konigsberg and Leipzig (I know, money is tight, but we need them!)
Brazil pays demo and WM and 2370 Gold for ToG, the Zulu Artistry, 29per turn. Rest has nothing to offer, noone has acquires Physics since I sold it to all with cash, btw.

(9) who the hell is pink? they move a stack of M=1 units towards Brandenburg! US and Zulus make peace. Russia prefers to attck exposed Cav (and kills two) with their Cossack instead of retaking Moscow. Them´n, the win 1 lose 1 with Knights against the Cav in Moscow, stack a LOT of troops next to it (that could have reached it!! AI = dumb!). The iroquese decise that they will join Brazil in its fight against sauerkraut.

Palace done, Newtons done. We are at +90GPT at 100% science :D, 198 @ 90% still gives Mag in 5



Lee, decision time: peace with Russia? breaks an alliance, but the only other alternative i see is scorched earth. It went a lot better that I expected, getting terrain of thiers to scortch instead of our ex-German cities, but this is how far I could push it without neglecting Egypt.

I will hand it off here (no diplo, no fighting done this turn).

Remember: China is going for Brandenburg!!!


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39in1020AD.zip

Shouldn't we be able to make peace with China by this time?

Originally posted by meldor
Shouldn't we be able to make peace with China by this time?

that maw well be, but they wouldn't talk last round....

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.


that maw well be, but they wouldn't talk last round....

Once we deal with there stack of units we may be able to bring them to the table. Do they have any cities that are close that we can hit easily and bring them in?

nope. and dealing with the stack ain't easy... maybe they will talk once tehy are in our territory (they are on a hill or forest ourside atm....)

1020 AD (pre-turn) - GACK! I inherit a turn that is nowhere near complete. Please hand the game over at the end of the turn.

I adjust several cities to courthouse to compensate for the palace jump.
Brazil gives us a lump sum of $850 for 20 turns of dyes - how he so rich? That is 38.5 at turn.
It has been a while since wm was sold - Brazil alone gives us $60. The Aztecs give $3/turn and $70.
I cancel the alliance with India vs. China at $33/turn to them, and renew with THEM paying us $3/turn.

Brandenburg isn't worth the war weariness penalty for losing a city - I simply abandon it. I hope I didn't make a mistake keeping Moscow.

I burn up our "spare" cash on a handful of building rushes, but mostly military rushing in Europe. Egypt isn't worth pursuing much long, so it is time to go full tilt on Russia. I would like Riga and Sistine, not to mention the huge block of spices in Scandinavia.
(I) I had a bad feeling it would happen - Russia reclaims Moscow.

1030 AD - Asyut is captured.
The Iroquois suddenly have decent GPT, so I send dyes there way for $14/turn, $34, and wm.
(I) America and Greece sign a peace treaty.
America and Egypt sign a peace treaty.

1040 AD -Bengal is captured.
(I) India and Russia sign a peace treaty - not good for us.
Konigsberg falls to Russia :cry:
Argentina and Egypt sign a peace treaty.
It is getting weird now - Persia and our ally Greece sign a trade embargo against us.
In a fit of stupidity, Germany declares war on the Zulu.
The people are tiring of war, but the celebrate the war by expanding our palace.

1050 AD - Pithom is captured with multiple workers - something I really appreciate with rails coming up.
What is even better is I spot a naked settler to add even 2 more workers.
New Arwan is formed claiming another chunk of ice - a temple is ordered.

War weariness is getting bad, and not much more to gain from Egypt. I take the junk pacific city of Athribis and sign a peace treaty. With the Egyptians being very impressed with our culture, I doubt we will sign a flip.
Nationalism is already out there - Brazil can offer a MPP.
Our war with Germany is meaningless, so I sign peace for $38 and wm.
Kiev can't be held, so I simply abandon it.
(I) Do I really care that Russia and Egypt trade embargo against us?
What a meaningless alliance - Argentina allies with Persia vs. us.
Greece and Persia ally vs. Egypt - those last couple of towns will be toasted, I hope.
Greece and Persia ally vs. India.
Mongols and Persia sign a trade embargo vs. us.

Research begins on rails at 100% thanks to all the gpt coming in, I love our dye monopoly. Why that, and not rifles? We have a ton of desert tiles, and rails will really help those cities. We need the ability to move troops quickly. I hope by the time rails are done, we can trade them to Brazil and get Nationalism. From there we can be the first to factories.

1060 AD - I took a look around the map - Brazil and the Aztecs have slaughtered Argentina. Argentina has NO cities on the South American mainland.
(I) The backstabbing Indians ally with Russia vs. us.
The Iroquois and India ally vs. Greece.
Another is the totally meaningless category - Aztecs and Iroquois ally vs. Persia.
Brazil and Aztecs ally vs. Babylon, and then the Aztecs sign a peace treaty with Babylon - WTH?
Brazil is really pissed about that one, and ally with Persia again the Aztecs.

1070 AD - Since India stabbed us in the back, I make peace with China - it is worth $80 to not have to worry about them. I then get it ALL back as China buys our map for $92.
I don't want India bothering us, so I send the Mongols Physics to declare war on India.
(I) It just doesn't stop - Australia and Persia ally vs. the Iroquois.
Germany continues to prove his death wish - He allies with Persia against India.

1080 AD - Nothing really happens except for more rushes in Europe. I caught Russian troops heading toward Greece, and we need to be ready.
(I) India and China sign a peace treaty.
Germany and Russian sign a peace treaty.
It just doesn't stop - Persia and Australia ally vs. Egypt.
Australia and Persia ally vs. Babylon.

1090 AD - Russian just start smacking Greece quite hard - one city razed and another captured. We have 3 turns left on the alliance with Greece. We may be forced to break the alliance, not good at all. We still need the ability to ally with other countries.
(I) Australia and the Zulu sign a peace treaty.
The Argentinean people have a suicide wish and declare war on the Iroquois.
Mongols and Persia sign an alliance versus Russia [dance]

1100 AD - The moment of truth will arrive. I hope the Russians withdraw due to the Mongols. If not, I will have to screw our rep and sign a peace treaty with Russia.
I haven't see one of these in ages - I purchase a Mongol worker. With rails coming up we desperately need more workers.
(I) Argentina and Germany sign a peace treaty.
Brazil comes calling and will pay us $3/turn, $8 and wm to embargo Germany. This sounds good to me, as that is a civ we want to keep happy.
Mongols and Persia ally vs. Babylon.
Babylon captures Thebes - Egypt is down to just two cities.

1110 AD - I have no choice, as Russia will rip through Europe. I sign a peace treaty and get $100 for my troubles. Our rep with Greece is shot, I just don't know how many other civs we took a hit with. This was a bad alliance from day one , as it encouraged Russian troops to come TOWARD us. The alliance with the Zulu vs. Persia is great as it draws troops away. My alliance with the Mongols was for the same reason, to draw India away. That worked, as I haven't seen a single Indian troop.

The good thing is we were NOT shipping goods as part of the trade. I spot check several civs and the canceling the ill advised alliance with Greece didn't hurt gpt. However, the world attitude toward us is worse.
(I) Russia and Babylon ally vs. Argentina.
The number of Russian troops I see leave Cornith proves the peace treaty was right.
Germany and Greece sign a peace treaty.
American and Babylon ally vs. Brazil.
OUCH - we lose a good trading partner as Persia and Brazil ally vs. us - we lose our source of Gems and Furs.
Double ouch - our revenue is now NEGATIVE $13/turn.

1120 AD - I can drop science 10% and still gain rails in the same amount of time. :)
I get a source of Gems back from the Aztecs by sending them ToG. We even get $12/t, $40 and wm for our trouble.
I get a source of Furs back from the Iroquois by sending them ToG. We even get $15/t, $58 and for our trouble.
I cancel the meaningless alliance with the Iroquois versus Persia.


Summary - I hope we can trade rails for Nationalism.

We need the break in fighting. This will let us get marketplace for happiness into the Egyptian towns. We need a least a temple in the Egyptian towns to expand the borders. We badly need more musketmen, as most off our cities have just one defender. We have some cities defending by long bowman, mi, cavalry, etc.

If you are wonder why Koumbi Saleh is building a university - this is the site of Newton's. This is effectively a double university. We can't afford to be running at 90% science forever, as we need to have cash for rushing.

The ships heading down South America are to explore that massive unknown in the Pacific.

Make peace when we can with Brazil and Argentina.
India and Persian wars include alliances - be careful with peace.
==================================

LKendter
Anarres (currently playing) Hopefully finding coal within our borders.
Meldor (on deck)
Naevrod (skip to 2/22)
Lt. 'Killer' M.

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39-1120AD.zip

Originally posted by LKendter
1020 AD (pre-turn) - GACK! I inherit a turn that is nowhere near complete. Please hand the game over at the end of the turn.



This is intentional - you need to decide on Russia, and I didn't want to present you with fait accompli for the troops in any way. Also, i didn't want to ask, then play 1.5 more turns after I took so long in the first place.....

I do not think we can get Nat for Rails, in my experience all it does is lower the horrendous price a tiny bit.

:cool:

I will try and play tonight. LK, would it be a good idea on a huge map to include a summary of our trades/alliances at the end of the turn?

F4 is not usable until many civs are dead, and I find it take me at least an hour when I get the save to determine our international status.

I know that by trawling the posts I can get the relevant info, but I find that once I have read it all some of the details have slipped my mind. Add on to that the fact that 20 turn deals mean I also have to re-read 2 player-turns back to get it all. Also, sometimes it's just a couple of words embedded in a much longer sentance, and as such it doesn't stand out when re-skimming the posts.

A small thing I know, but life would be a lot easier for me if I had it summarised.

If people think it's a good idea, I will endeavour to provide such a list in my next turns post. It will require everone to do it from now on for it to have meaning, so if you don't want to do it after me say now and I won't waste my time.

If you are speaking of just ours, that is fine. If you are talking everyone else, it is too much to try and organize. Show what you mean so we can is the level of detail.

Yes Meldor, just ours. Listing all of them would be far too much effort.

I will do it, hopefully it will be useful. :)

Summary

War with Brazil, India, Persia and Argentina
Mongols have MA with us against India (18 left)
Argentina have MA with us against Persia
Persia and Greece have trade embargo against us

Tech Leaders seem to be: Persia, Russia, Zulu, China


preturn: Fine :)

AI:
Aztecs and Russia sign MA against Greece
Egypt and India sign MA against America
Egypt and Babylon sign peace treaty
A Brazilian knight, an archer and a horseman land next to New Arwan (arctic tundra village).


1130AD: At New Arwan there is no way the single spearman can survive, so I abandon the city to deny it to Brazil.

I sell Chemistry to Greece for 9 gpt, 13 gold and WM.

Persia, Russia and Zulus all have Steam Power. Only China has Nationalism and not steam power, maybe we can get it next turn from them. Set science to 50% for Steam Power next turn.

AI:
Egypt and Russia sign MA against Argentina,
China and Brazil sign trade embargo against us.
Mongols and Brazil sign MA against us.
Mongols declare war on the Americans.

1140AD: A quick check and China will not touch Steam Power, even with 1590 gold. GPT is totally shot. It is very bad tech wise, I suggest going for replacible parts as soon as posssible and building lots of workers in all our cities. Railroads will be our saviour if anything will, and we need a network as soon as possible, and Infantry should be enough to hold off any attack when we have railroads.


I would like to take less than my full share of turns this time round. I just found out I have a funeral to attend on thursday, and have other commitments too. I could rush the turns to finish them all tomorrow night, but we seem to be in a tight spot in the game, and rushing them may prove fatal. I can finish maybe 5 turns by tomorrow (2 turns took 90 minutes tonight, and I want to micromange everything more), let me know if this is OK.

Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope it wasn't someone very close, but either way, my thoughts and condolenses.

Stopping at 5 turns is fine by Lee's rules.

Thanks for the concern meldor. It is my cousin's funeral, she died on New Year's Eve but the police have only just released the body. Life is full of bad things, and there is not much we can do about it except try to get on with living...

I will play up to and including 1170AD tonight, so you can pick up your go from around midnight to 2am GMT.

anarres: :( my condolenses.

@anarres - sorry on hearing the loss

NOTE: I know these turns get monsterous in later years. I really don't expect 48 hours to finish. I **DO** expect status every time **ANY** moves are played that night.

I have already posted as little as two turns.
I think Meldor one time just posted pre-turn review complete and what he did.

You are welcome to play all 10 turns.

Lee

Thanks everyone for your kind thoughts. I am rationalising it ok now (after 6 weeks), but I expect after thursday it will all be too painful again.

My civ commitments are piling up, and I am going out of town tomorrow night and will not be back (at least to playing civ) until friday night. I may also not be around this weekend (not sure yet), so 5 turns is all I want to play this time around, as long as that is OK.

Just out of interest, this is my first SG, and I'm finding a big 'learning curve' every time I get the game. This is not a criticism of anyone's style (*especially* not LK's), but I wanted to know if others had the same problems.

For example, when I got the save we were at war with several civs. It was initally difficult to guage whether any of them were a serious threat, or indeed what was the most important focus. There were many units 'mid-move', i.e. inbetween cities and not fortified. I guessed that we were moving them to europe to defend, but the recent peace treaty with Russia indicated a lessening of importance there, and so I was unsure what they were doing, maybe they were in Egypt to help defend those cities. :hmm:

IMHO (and I really do mean the 'humble' part), I really think we can benifit from a 'summary section' at the end that is a concise statement of threats / general goals / things to watch out for. LK is almost there, but small bits of info like our general troop movements, who the tech leaders are, and who we expect to turn up with an army on our doorstep would put the cherry on top of the cake for me.

A biggie at the moment is our mid-term strategy, we must decide if we want to take any more land before infantry is known to all. If so, we *have* to build cavalry soon, and in large numbers. Infantry should come soon after for us, and we can then defend our new territory, otherwise we have to (realistically) wait for tanks. An offensive battle may be difficult at the moment as there are many new 'core' cities in europe, and much land to develop, so maybe we should wait for tanks, and consolidate until them. We may still be able to pull something off now though as we have rails.

Whatever we decide we should try to snag ToE to pull us back tech-wise.

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments? I am ready to accept that SG games don't work like this with lots of planning, but without a holistic strategy we may be in trouble at this crucial point of the game...

anarres: I'd take the Suez and land connection to Europe if that is possible, even if it involves building Arty and fighting Infanry. Just my 2C.

as for a 'summary section': a good idea!

Originally posted by anarres
........so 5 turns is all I want to play this time around, as long as that is OK.Whatever you feel you can do, even less if that is what you can do. Don't push just for the game.

Just out of interest, this is my first SG, and I'm finding a big 'learning curve' every time I get the game.You stepped into the "mother-of-all-SGs" when you decided to try one. I don not expect as much at the end of the turn as this game can be very hard, just to get through the turns. I normally spend up to 2 hours just going through and checking cities, were troops are and what the deals and threats are. One of the problems with a game on this map is that the it is easy to get into a war and hard to get back out. We were close to reaching peace when everything hit the fan near the end of Lee's turn. You can expect that once we get tanks, we will never have peace again. That is one reason Republic and lots of luxes are two major goals. Democracy doesn't work and Monarchy is too limiting.

It is also hard to keep track of things just on your own turns when you reach the end of a set of ten. Several times I have taken the passed file found healed but fortified units and proceeded to capture several more cities before my turn even begins. And people have done the same after I pass it on, probably something to do with not wanting to pass on a totally gassed military to the next person.

I would suggest you try a few of the smaller SGs to get a better idea of how they truely are. The smaller ones are easier to keep track of and pass on the details. Unfortunately, it does take some experience to deal with some of those issues on this map. Hopefully, once you get into it, you will become one of our regulars on Lee's WM.

IMHO (and I really do mean the 'humble' part), I really think we can benifit from a 'summary section' at the end that is a concise statement of threats / general goals / things to watch out for. LK is almost there, but small bits of info like our general troop movements, who the tech leaders are, and who we expect to turn up with an army on our doorstep would put the cherry on top of the cake for me.Some people are better at this than others, but it will always be a mixed bag in SGs. Most of us will put in a lot of detail on what is going on and others won't. Even the best of us sometimes slip in that area, and I have turned in short reports myself on occasion. As this games progresses, I will stop giving builds of cities and start talking more of the overall strategy that I am using, but even that starts to slip at the end and I will go to reporting captured, razed and founded cities. Especially when we get to the part where there are 5-6 in each catagory per turn.

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments? I am ready to accept that SG games don't work like this with lots of planning, but without a holistic strategy we may be in trouble at this crucial point of the game... Personnally I would like to see us cut the Zulu troops off and take the rest of Africa. If I have read correctly, most of the Zulu troops have left Africa to go hunting elsewhere. If we can catch them with the units off, we can kill them coming back and take their lands.That would prevent us getting any sneak attacks. It will also stop us from having to worry about two fronts and we can then move to take the rest of Europe and start on Asia. At some point we will also have to start an assualt on America, probably North as it would be easier to get a foot hold in the tundra and go from there. That will probably have to wait for flight to make it a lot less tedious. Some in summary:
1) Secure Africa.
2) Secure Europe.
3) Take as much of Asia as we can until flight.
4) Assault the America's.

[Delete] double post

1140AD: (continued...)
Give Steam Power to the Americans for 36 gpt, 80 gold and WM. With the AI discount on trading we may not get the chance to sell it again.
Buy Greek worker from the Chinese for 130 gold. I still hold out hope that Nationalism will be sold around some more and we can get a part-exchance.
Make peace with Argantina, get 47 gold and WM
Make peace with India for 9 gold, WM and Indus (an Indonesian 1-tile island). We can do this now since our allies the Mongols declared war on us.
Brazil and Mongols both refuse to talk, and we need to wait 6 turns before ending the war with Persia (unless the Zulu declare war on us first...)
Noted that Russia doesn't have any coal, but they have a trade embargo against us so we can't trade... :D
Set science to Medicine. We can go for this as no-one else does straight away, so we get a return on our investment. I am also thinking of a prebuild for ToE, I will choose one soon.
I have started making a rail link between our African cities, and a smaller project is underway in Europe.

AI:
Brazil and Russia sign MA against Persia
Egypt and Russia sign MA agianst the Mongols
Australia and India sign peace treaty
Australia and Brazil sign MA agianst Persia
Australia and Brazil sign MA agianst Germany
Persians come asking for peace, I have to say no.


1150AD:
China have Steam Power. :( I buy another worker from them for just 89 gold :confused:
Brazil and Mongols still refusing to talk,
We need more workers quick. I have been skimming a worker from every city that builds something, most of them have been size 12 anyway. FWIW, I always skim workers if a city is maxed out on food. It costs just 1 turn of production, and 1 turn of size 11 instead of 12. This is generally worth less than the 120 odd gold it costs to buy from the AI.
For some reason the Irquois suddenly have money, so I sell Steam Power for 53 gpt, 20 gold and WM.
Sell dyes to India for 11 gpt, 20 gold and WM, I should have rememberd this last turn...

AI:
Aztecs and India sign MA against Germany
Egypt and Aztecs sign MA against Germany
Agrentina and Brazil sign trade embargo against us
India and Brazil sign MA against Babylon.
Zulu and Brazil sign MA against us :eek: we are in deep trouble now...
Mongols declare war on the Germans
Germany and Persia sign trade embargo against us.

1160AD:
What can I say about the Zulu? It was always a possibility, but we are really unluckly for it to happen right now. The only good thing is that they must have made the Alliance with Brazil after their go in Brazil's turn, as non fof the Zulu units moved or attacked after they declared war. I take out 7 passing Zulu units in our territory including 2 Cavalry.

The rail link almost stretches from Gao to the zulu borders, it shouldn't be a problem getting our troops around in a couple of turns time. I am also considering mobilization. Kinda drastic, but could provide some very quick units...

This is where I end it for today, I will fiish this turn and next (4 and 5) tomorrow night. I just realised we can mae peace with Persia now, I will do this when I start again.


Summary

War with Brazil, Persia, Mongols, Zulu

Persia and Brazilhave MA against us
Persia and Greece have trade embargo against us
Egypt and Russia have trade embargo against us.
Agrentina and Brazil have trade embargo against us (1150AD)
Germany and Persia have trade embargo against us. (1150AD)

Tech Leaders seem to be: Persia, Russia, Zulu, China

Don't forget Indus (NE from Australia, or use the city-finder)

Zulu and Brazil sign MA against us we are in deep trouble now...

OUCH! OUCH! OUCH!

Why is it every game when I can start building rails / factories I get into an ugly war? We had better ship some troops from Europe back, but not to many. The Zulu might come at Europe.


Brilliant game flash
Most of the Zulu troops are on the other side of Babylon! Get Babylon to ally with us regardless of the cost. Most the of Zulu troops will fight with Babylon :flamedevi

==============================

Please continue to upgrade the units in Greenland. I get many up to muskets and cavarly. I don't want ANYTHING to break out dye monopoly. That monopoly has already made us a fortune.

If we can any leaders - ARMY! It is time to get the heroic epic and military academy.

==============================

I have to agree with Meldor - Our number one goal is to at least weaken the Zulu (depends on how bad ww gets.) Once Africa is secured we can talk the next goal.

I still want Russia at some point:
1) Riga and Sistine Extra powerful cathedrals help with ww.
2) The Scandanvian spice patch is large.
3) Some of the city will be **PRODUCTIVE**

Who I don't want a war with - Babylon. I don't want an accidental culture win, and they are #1 last I looked.

==============================


Indus (an Indonesian 1-tile island).
We never saw a unit, but we get a city.

I **LOVE** it. With a harbor and barracks we should keep in for the game. That is at least 9 squares closer.

Also, work on another island city - the one I got from Egypt.

Some notes before I play tonight:

We can get rails between our major cities, the zulu border, and the north african coast. Add rails from spain to russia and we can move lots of units anywhere in 1 turn. The only limiting factor is how many ships we can use to transport in any one turn, so i will be moving some more ships to the straits of Gibralter(?sp).

The Indian city is a steal, it was not obvious that it would be available as it was several cities up the list and all the lower ones were 'no way' options. This and the Irquois suddenly having lots of GPT to spare are prime examples of why trading every turn, and with every player is of the utmost importance. Double the importance now we are in trouble and need of cash.

My 'crazy' tech choices:
I chose medicine as we can guarentee that no-one else is going for it. This should provide a nice cash boost. IMO we should also stick with Scientific Methods and prebuild the ToE to get back the tech lead. If we can also build Hoovers then we will have it in the bag. I know this may seem wrong at a time of war when we need workers, but Replacable Parts will be on the research list of half the AI's (unless they now value Corperation more highly because of Wall Street). We can trade for Replacable Parts and save lots of money in about 10 turns or so when we get Scientific Methods.

I never build Cathedrals as having them can make it easy to accidentially win by culture. Leaving the Babylonians now means we can't guarentee a land link to europe. Not sure there is a solution to this problem, except maybe kill some cathedrals. If we have marketplaces and 7 or 8 lux's we can get WLTKD's in size 12 cities, but with hospitals I guess cathedrals are kinda needed. :hmm:

I agree the Zulu's should be either killed outright or just squashed enough to never give us trouble again. I think we all agree on this, especially now they are bringing the war to us...

Good idea about the Babs LK. They will amke short work of all those Zulu's away from home, and allow us to concentrate our forces in the south, near the Zulu homeland.

It's a shame all the wars end just as my go is starting, or they start just as my go is ending, but I guess that's the luck of the draw. Hopefully next time round will be full-war again, with mobilisation and tanks :evil:

Any comments about mobilizing our army? We can leave the cities producing improvments, and the ones on units will get a boost. We should make peace with Brazil in the next 10 turns or so, in which case we can reassign some cities to improvements and switch back to mobilization again. Note that mobilizing is a good way to reduce culture output too...

One last comment: Making a MA aginst the Zulu will be good for us, and we can easily fight for 20 turns or so before WW will set in. Making MA's in general is very bad (IMO of course), as it ties you in to 20 turns, when it is often more useful to be able to make peace.

A love mobilization. It will give us that needed boost to overrun the Zulu and we can kill it with any peace deal. x1.5 production is always nice.

I chose medicine as we can guarentee that no-one else is going for it.

I hope that doesn't come back and bit us. We really, really need the boost from FACTORIES to be able to keep the war machine going. Our best ToE chance in to build in a city with a factory.
If nothing is committed, I would much rather get factories.

Suffrage is a CRITICAL wonder as we head toward constant war. Once again we need industrializaiton. Tech lead is meaningless right now - we need production lead and shields like crazy. Factories are the start. Hoover is worthless without factories.


If we mobilize, which I generally don't, make sure our low shield cities are set to buildings. Once mobilized, we are screwed on new marketplaces, temples, etc.

1160AD: (continued...)
Did full MM. We still can't buy Nationalism, there are no new techs on the market.
Get MA with Bablylon against the Zulu, it costs just Magnetism. We also get 37 gold and 2 gpt for our troubles. Babylon is now polite towards us :)
I make peace with Persia, getting just 4 gold and WM. Weirdly, he is now Polite too. Persia also has Nationalism, but to get it we would need to add over 2000 gold and over 350 gpt to the deal :lol:

I have a tough decision to make. We are 2 turns in to Medicine, with 5 turns left. We can get Nationalism in 6 and Industrialisation in 8. In the end I decide to leave it on Medicine. We can at least trade this for Nationalism in 5 turns, maybe even for Industrialisation. I'm sorry if you disagree with this choice, but wasting the invested beakers seem too big a price to pay for switching.

AI:
Persia and Zulu sign peace treaty
Zulu take Pithom, on the East Aftrican coast. It was just too far away to get more defenders to.
India and Russia sign MA against Argentina.
Aztecs and India sign MA against Babylon


1170AD:
Take New Umfolozi in East Africa.
Take Argos, just east of Gao.
We can take Pithom back next turn, I only saw 1 Cavalry enter, and you can't draft a citizen of foreign nationality.

The following have Nationalism: Persia, America, Russia, China.
Irquois do not have Coal
Mongols, Zulu and brazil are all refusing to talk.
No new techs on the market.


Summary

War with Brazil, Mongols, Zulu


Persia and Brazil have MA against us
Persia and Greece have trade embargo against us
Egypt and Russia have trade embargo against us.
Agrentina and Brazil have trade embargo against us (1150AD)
Germany and Persia have trade embargo against us. (1150AD)
We have an MA with Babylon against the Zulu (1160AD)

Tech Leaders seem to be: Persia, Russia, Zulu, China

There are lots of Musketmen heading towards the Zulu, and some Cav being built in Africa. Railroads are running from Gao to the Zulu front (just), there is a rail line starting in Europe, and more in Greenland. Note that cities production have been set on long term goals, such as market places and libraries, where the basic improvments exist they are set to Cavalry. We seem to have enough musket men for the front, although a sneak attack from Babylon could catch us unawares. I would still recomment offensive units only though, we need to press the war quickly, and Cav plus rails is a good combo.

I still recommend going for mobilisation. We make peace so often it wil only be a few turns each time.

Again, sorry if you don't like my tech choice, I still think that we can get the techs we need a couple of turns later, but with more cash.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK39.1170AD.zip

That's the 5 turns for me this time, I look forward to seeing the Zulu crushed :hammer:

I still recommend going for mobilization. We make peace so often it will only be a few turns each time.

I agree - with a qualification that all those Egypt cities get marketplaces (critical to survive ww), and culture building started BEFORE we mobilize.
======================================

Again, sorry if you don't like my tech choice, I still think that we can get the techs we need a couple of turns later, but with more cash.

I have found that during wartime the AI builds almost ZERO buildings. Take a look at the last LK always war game. Many of the early built AI cities did NOT have cultural border expansions. This can let us be the first to get the increase in production. The good news is that we at least have a military rail-net. The next challenge is to improve the rail-net to gain production. Maybe the Zulu will be nice enough to give us a lot of new workers ;)


======================================

LKendter
Anarres
Meldor (currently playing)
Please get us some factories and a pre-build for Suffrage.

Naevrod (on deck) (skip to 2/22)
Lt. 'Killer' M.

Trade like crazy, at least every other turn, preferably every turn.

Remember, 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to report signs of playing turns.
If you can't complete all turns during a session - post partial turn report
I know these world maps get slow after awhile, but I like to see signs of life.

I see it and will start tomorrow night.

@Meldor - I got a chance to look at the game.

Our border cities are with Babylon are EMPTY! Nothing invites a sneak attack faster then an empty city. We have to many empty cities in general. Your big task is to get our military situation stable ASAP.

We need the rail-net to get to the Babylon border ASAP. Our emergency reserves along the Egyptian border needed to be sent to the Zululand front. I won't argue with Anarres doing that, but it stresses the need for a rail-net toward Babylon to deal with unpleasant surprises. If Babylon turns on us, we are in deep you know what.


@Anarres -
:confused: Why are we running 100% science with a -122 gpt deficit? Our cash position isn't that strong.

anarres: I agree with your tech choice, for exactly the reasons you state.

Originally posted by LKendter
@Meldor - I got a chance to look at the game.

Our border cities are with Babylon are EMPTY! Nothing invites a sneak attack faster then an empty city. We have to many empty cities in general. Your big task is to get our military situation stable ASAP.

We need the rail-net to get to the Babylon border ASAP. Our emergency reserves along the Egyptian border needed to be sent to the Zululand front. I won't argue with Anarres doing that, but it stresses the need for a rail-net toward Babylon to deal with unpleasant surprises. If Babylon turns on us, we are in deep you know what.Since we have rails through our original heartland near Gao, it is not needed to have any troops in the cities there. As long as we are 4 tiles from the border and we don't have RoP's we are in no danger. If anyone pushes forces near the cities we can be back with lots of troops in 1 turn. I thought everyone played like this. As long as we are awake we should not be caught out. I agree that the Egyptian front is now a little weak, this should have been in the summary, although it was the right choice considering I had no idea how many troops the Zulu could throw at us.:confused: Why are we running 100% science with a -122 gpt deficit? Our cash position isn't that strong. We have about 1500 gold. I figured getting Medicine 1 turn earlier was much more important than not running a deficit. Since no-one has medicine yet it would be very upsetting to get it on the same turn as someone else and lose the trading bonus. I always go 100% if I am researching a cutting edge tech.

I have been nailed more then once by the AI seeing my week because of empty cities, so I am real paranoid especially with border cities.

If anyone pushes forces near the cities we can be back with lots of troops in 1 turn.
Some of our cities close to the Babylon border are more then one turn from troops. I will empty non-coastal cities late in the game once everything is secure. However, with the AI habit of landing by empty cities I just don't empty coastal cities.

In the end a lot of my question is because our rail-net doesn't support this move in my opinion. I won't empty a city until the rails make the city.


As long as we are 4 tiles from the border and we don't have RoP's we are in no danger.

There is no question we will need to sign a RoP sooner or later. It is the nature of the map. Consider we are already in the industrial age, and only control part of Europe and Africa. Some danger target, such as a tech leader may have to get hit first. Brazil already scares me being a tech leader that has NOT had a GA - their BEF (upgraded infantry) has not appeared yet.

====================================


I figured getting Medicine 1 turn earlier was much more important than not running a deficit. Since no one has medicine yet it would be very upsetting to get it on the same turn as someone else and lose the trading bonus. I always go 100% if I am researching a cutting edge tech.
I can't argue with that logic. When I post the confused it is trying to understand why, and not a complaint on tactics. The trick is we have got to build cash after that tech, to be ready to some of the mass upgrades coming up (cannon to artillery is expensive!)

I have no problems with your posts LK, and I have never have had one. :) I didn't mean to sound defensive in my last post, I was just arguing my viewpoint.

Sorry if I made out that the Bab border cities were within the 3-tile defender limit, I meant only to refer to the Gao-based cities. We must get rails to the Bab border as #1 priority.

I still disagree about leaving cities undefended, including coastal ones. If we can get the forces there in 1 turn, and marines are not around yet then where is the issue with leaving them undefended? I thnk if we are careful enough then we can reinforce them as soon as we sign an RoP or we are finished with the Zulu. Maybe I do need to be more paranoid, I seem to not worry about sneak attacks, and one from the Babs would be bad at this point in time. :hmm:

Maybe I have gotten paranoid, as I have been burned to many times. I had a game where I was allied with another Civ and I emptied one city. They immediately BROKE the alliance, and took the city. I replayed the same being curious and left it occupied. They did not attack.

I use to empty coastal cities more, and then I found a problem happened. As marines got close I watched my offensive drop to a complete halt. I had nowhere close to the safety margin of two infantry for a city to spare. Don't forget that in this game the USA does not get the F-15, but the USMC as there UU. It is a stronger marine.

What we really need to make me feel comfortable in Africa is zero Babylon cities in the oddball spots. I hope that the new Civ Placement Tool really does work with PTW like advertised. I will test it when it gets back to me. If it works, then Babylon is in deep you know what.


@Meldor - If it isn't already done, we should start a pre-build for suffrage. We know how much this war happy game needs all the help it can get.

anarres: the problem here is that the AI decides to go to war sometimes and declares it the next trun. So they might land troops and be set on war no matter what defender we move in. If that war breaks alliances and deals we are ****** for nothing.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
anarres: the problem here is that the AI decides to go to war sometimes and declares it the next trun. So they might land troops and be set on war no matter what defender we move in. If that war breaks alliances and deals we are ****** for nothing.


Well said - this actually explains a trend I noticed in my games. The number of attacks by the AI I get have dropped to almost nothing. What has changed in my play style is paranoia about empty cities. I didn't completely put two and two together until that statement. I play the GOTM and watch a lot of people complaining about attacks in the ancient and Middle Ages by the AI, while I get none. My obsession with defended cities and strong military is the reason.

Ahh, maybe you are both right then. Being sneak attacked is not usually an issue for me, or one that is often easily rectified without the loss of cities. I must admit that by industrial times it is rare for me to have any real opponents, and it is around this time that SoD's start appearing if you do. The thought of 50+ infantry appearing next to our core is not a plesant one, especially if they are spurred on by an empty city.

LK, I looked through the link in post #1 before I signed up and the info about chages to the map were not easy to find, and I know I missed some. Could you linnk me to a list of changes in this map with regards to UU's, etc. Thx.

Edit: LK, what did you mean by the 'Civ Placement Tool', can you give some more info about how this could affect the Babylons in your next turn? :confused:

The development of the game can be found under.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38461


Actually, I meant Civ Multi-Tool. This lets you change some of the game configuration including victory conditions. If culture win is meaningless, then screw Babylon.

RE C3MT: Excellent. I like turning off culture victory condition. Didn't know C3MT could do this (not really played with it before).

Thanks for the link, it was the link I had before, but I obviously didn't read it well enough :blush: