hello,brother mac-users,
every1 is talking about a civ3 scenario editor...everywhere...AND I DONT HAVE ONE :eek: !!!
am i supposed to get one when i buy the game? or do i download one,where then?

Sorry to disappoint you but as usual Mac users get the short straw.

An editor is in final beta (or at some such pre-release status) which we will have to buy - It came free with the PC version. When ? we are all crossing our fingers and waiting, soon please.

We are also waiting for a Mac version of Play the World. When this will arrives is anyones guess. If you check some of the threads you will see there are concerns that the new editor will only work with Civ3 and not PtW. Two steps forwards one step back.

hey its not fair!!!how come pc users got it 4 freee????!!!!:cry: :mad: :confused: :(

Nope, its a free download. It'll most likely be available at Infogrames' support page and CFC, Apolyton, etc.

Originally posted by MacBaldrick
An editor is in final beta (or at some such pre-release status) which we will have to buy - It came free with the PC version.

Woah there...was I asleep or something? I don't recall anybody saying we'd have to buy the editor. If we would have to buy it, Macsoft would have an incentive to get the thing out the door already...and they sure don't seem too concerned about losing any sales on this thing...

hey its not fair!!!how come pc users got it 4 freee????!!!!:cry: :mad: :confused: :(

The Editor is FREE!:wallbash:

(actually cost included in the purchase price of Mac Civ3 - no other additional expenses)

;)

Originally posted by MacBaldrick
It came free with the PC version.

Actually, PC users had to wait 6 - 8 months for their editor after the release of Civ3. We're waiting 12 months, maybe 13.

Originally posted by dojoboy
Actually, PC users had to wait 6 - 8 months for their editor after the release of Civ3. We're waiting 12 months, maybe 13.

Um, no. On the Windows side there was an editor with the initial release. The current version of the editor took 8 months before it was released - you know, the one where there is still absolutely no indication of whether we'll get it ever, and the one that adds many, many new capabilities.

And wow, there are a lot of multiple postings in this thread...

:wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

Sorry for the bum steer there. Grovel grovel.

Must have been a PtW thread that was talking about prices. No wonder we are waiting forever.

Okay, folks, this was three weeks ago.
Originally posted by Brad Oliver on Dec 31, 2002 12:57 AM, while responding to Willy Wonka in Major Fallout's "So... when's the Editor due out!!!" thread.
It's in "final candidate" now. I can see about getting the website updated, but given that most everyone is in flux with New Years and MacWorld next week, I'm not sure that it would mean anything.
This was the "You guys sure are a pessimistic bunch" post.

Okay, call me crazy, but if Brad hands over an editor in final candidate, talks about it after doing so, and three weeks after talking about we still don't have an editor... I think we have reason to be both pessimistic and irritated with MacSoft's business model.

If MacSoft sits on their hands much longer, I fear they may go blind.

It does seem odd, yes. Although we can't necessarily say it's MacSoft's fault - the holdup might be with Firaxis or somebody. Just don't pin blame on anyone while we don't know what's holding things up.
I'm still holding out hope of a release this week, though. Even tomorrow. Here's a question - which will come out first, the editor or MoOIII?

MOOIII will be out first.

Originally posted by Beamup
I'm still holding out hope of a release this week, though. Even tomorrow.
You're an optimist. Tomorrow? I wish "tomorrow." Okay, maybe "tomorrow"... but probably not.

Some word from MacSoft why they're sitting on this would be nice. Bad things happen to stock prices when investors are left to wonder...

Here's a question - which will come out first, the editor or MoOIII?
Impossible to tell. When "Final Candidate" was first posted, I would've said the editor (easily). Now, though, I'm thinking MoOIV will be released first.

Originally posted by ejday
Some word from MacSoft why they're sitting on this would be nice.

MacSoft got back from MacWorld last week, and I did get a bug report Friday that may be holding it up (arrow keys don't work for navigating around the map). There was also a report of an unreproducible crash, so I suspect they're wanting to bang on it some more to see if the crash was a fluke or not. That's my guess at least.

and I did get a bug report Friday that may be holding it up

that's not good.. :(

But, sadly, I guess I wouldn't really be able to live without scrolling with the arrow keys... clicking that mouse does get boring after a while... ;) Hopefully, it's only a matter of days (weeks [months]) now.... right? RIGHT?! :suicide: I think I'll sleep now. :o

Oh no! Arrow keys don't navigate around the map! The horror!

In all seriousness, though, this really seems like a minor issue to me - more of a convenience than a necessary feature. I hope release wouldn't be delayed just for that (though crashes are another thing altogether). And while I'm hoping, I hope it wouldn't be too hard to implement - naively, since it's functionally similar to using the scroll bars, it seems like it would be relatively simple to just utilize some of the same code. Of course, not having seen said code or ever programmed anything similar, I'm just talking out of my alternative orifice here.

Originally posted by Beamup
And while I'm hoping, I hope it wouldn't be too hard to implement - naively, since it's functionally similar to using the scroll bars, it seems like it would be relatively simple to just utilize some of the same code.

I sent a fixed build out last night, so it wasn't a big deal. In this case, there is no shared code with the scrollbars (I thought like you did) as Cocoa handles the scrollbars automagically and programmers don't really have access to simulating that with the keyboard.

Thanks for the info, Brad.

I think when I get my mac back up and running, Ill just *have* to "give" Philadelphia, Oakland, and San Diego to an enemy, so I can send ships from Tampa over to bombard, pillage and raze!

(Yeah, cheap ploy to celebrate my Buc's *finally* going to the Super Bowl!)

Brad, I don't suppose you can tell me, but I've just started playing Civ3 again and I want an editor fast... Now, I was thinking of just reinstaling VPC and Windows, but if the editor is that close to being posted, why bother?
To cut it short: can we expect it this week? Apparantly you fixed that arrow bugs on the 21th, we are the 26th, it seems to me it should be ready...
Whatever the answer (even the probable "I know but cant tell you"), great thanks for devising it!

Kinniken

PS: to anyone familiar with the PC editor: you can use it to define starting locs cant you? So I can make a world map "scenario" just to get my starting loc corrects? Since it appears that this basic feature only made it in the game in 1.29f, which was incedibly lame of the original devlopers, it seems that will be the only way to do it on a mac for some time....

Originally posted by Kinniken
To cut it short: can we expect it this week? Apparantly you fixed that arrow bugs on the 21th, we are the 26th, it seems to me it should be ready...

At the moment, it's out of my hands. Your guess is as good as mine. To be honest, I thought it might make an appearance at MacWorld. :)

Originally posted by Kinniken

PS: to anyone familiar with the PC editor: you can use it to define starting locs cant you? So I can make a world map "scenario" just to get my starting loc corrects? Since it appears that this basic feature only made it in the game in 1.29f, which was incedibly lame of the original devlopers, it seems that will be the only way to do it on a mac for some time....


From what I have seen, no. using the PC editor on a Windows machine or in VPC, I haven't been able to fix the starting locs.

What I ended up doing was using the location tool on my kids machine or on VPC.

I could be wrong about things now, because I gave up trying to fix locations on the world maps by the time I was on version 5 of my earth (Now on version 12)

Well... since we have waited all this time... way past April 2002 ':goodjob:' i don't see why we don't just get the editor that is on parity with the PC version. i can't believe that all this time has gone into the making of an editor that is, even as it comes out, not up to snuff. Maybe, and i will keep my foolish fingers crossed, MacSoft is going to surprise us? ':confused:'

Because many, many, new features were added for the 1.29 editor. Thus it would take even longer to port that one than the 1.21 version. Nobody's happy about it (I'm pretty confident that includes Westlake, Brad, and MacSoft) but that's how it is.

If it really isn't "up to par", then they should give us back atleast a fraction of what the editor added to the games price -or release the pc equivalent version...

Or these babos could get off of there asses and release the first version...

hat

Originally posted by Nazarene
Or these babos could get off of there asses and release the first version...

Take note of the "now we know" thread. MacSoft just got bought out. It seems likely that this process was delaying the release of the editor.

when(aproximetly) the editor is gonnna be out?One week?two weeks?a month?a year?two years ?ten years?never?when?

:vomit: Originally posted by ferretloverdc
MOOIII will be out first.

hello?what planet you from??MOO3 is already out, i have privew in the back of my civ3 instruction manual book!haha:groucho:

Based on the sale of MacSoft, I think it's a lock that we'll see Moo3 first. Just where do you expect to download the editor from? Infogrames web site?

man u answer fast!! its been 30 secs since i posted,man!dyou like live in this forum??

Originally posted by Inventor_of_Mac
man u answer fast!! its been 30 secs since i posted,man!dyou like live in this forum??

Actually, I'm spending more time at the Moo3 forum these days. Just a coincidence. ;)

man(or woman)how old r u?where dyou live?












www.greh.ru ------->4 russian people

Originally posted by Inventor_of_Mac
:vomit:

hello?what planet you from??MOO3 is already out, i have privew in the back of my civ3 instruction manual book!haha:groucho:

The PC version of Moo3 has gone gold - it was delayed and will be available for purchase in February, as will the Mac version, we hope.

I have the distinct displeasure to reside in the Tidewater region of Virginia (the shallow end of the gene pool), at least until my retirement, which is coming soon. As far as my age, let's just say that I'm older than your father but probably not as old as your grandfather. ;)

i have privew in the back of my civ3 instruction manual book!
Ah yes, blatently putting an ad on the back of my inept manual for my incomplete game. You can probably tell that I'm bitter... :mad:

when will my status change?i already have 50(more)posts and im still chieftain?

Originally posted by Inventor_of_Mac
when will my status change?i already have 50(more)posts and im still chieftain?

Go into user cp and see if you can change it in the Edit Profile tab.

...without a mac editor! :cry: :cry:
Maybe next weekend? ;)

Good luck with it Brad and good week to all the mac civers around!

u mean i can edit my status 2 whatever i want?? :jump: :D :cool:

Originally posted by Inventor_of_Mac
u mean i can edit my status 2 whatever i want?? :jump: :D :cool:

Why not? Everybody else already has. That's just the status text, though. Last time I looked you needed 300 posts to put up a custom avatar pic.

no no but this just isnt right!im supposed to make a "career" and have my title changed automaticallt with more and more posts i post!

Brad,

If you are still reading this, I have a question. I have contacted by Infogrames MacSoft and Destineer regarding Editor timeframe. Destineer said talk to Infogrames, they are still handling that. Infogrames never responded. Who do we need to yelp at so that somebody will post the editor that you finished weeks ago? My gut feeling is Infogrames will do little to help on this issue; why build up some other company's goodwill?

I have this horrible fear that the editor will be stuck in merger limbo for months and months. Can't someone just post an "at-your-own-risk" or "beta" editor to tide us over?

Gracias!

damn it why are you worriing ? the editor will come out in like....a year or two maybe...:lol: :D :goodjob: :crazyeye: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Originally posted by Inventor_of_Mac
damn it why are you worriing ? the editor will come out in like....a year or two maybe...:lol: :D :goodjob: :crazyeye: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Naah. I fearlessly predict that the editor will be available before PTW is released for the Mac. Maybe three days before, but before. :cry:

This is a warning - stop spamming the forum with multiple posts one after another.

Originally posted by Inventor_of_Mac
*Goes and kills the nextdoor neibour PC user*:cool: *yeah*it feels much better now...
I_o_M, sociopathy is not an Apple endorsed version of "thinking different."

While we share your frustration at all the editor/PTW delays and unknowns, sharing such visions is a bit beyond the scope of this public forum. I would appreciate it if you'd tone the rhetoric and keep the comments more constructive.

Thank you.

Or, to put it more bluntly: stop acting your age.

Originally posted by willywonka
I have this horrible fear that the editor will be stuck in merger limbo for months and months.

I talked to Al @ MacSoft today about the status. They're putting the finishing touches on the documentation for the editor, and once that's done it'll be released. Apparently it was quite a chore to convert the PC WinHelp files to a Mac format. I don't want to repeat when Al said he thought it would be ready, because it was a very small time frame and if they miss it by a day or two, I wouldn't want some of the more...excitable... posters in this forum to go nuts with the emoticons, death threats and exclamation points of rage. ;)

Originally posted by Brad Oliver


I talked to Al @ MacSoft today about the status. They're putting the finishing touches on the documentation for the editor, and once that's done it'll be released. Apparently it was quite a chore to convert the PC WinHelp files to a Mac format. I don't want to repeat when Al said he thought it would be ready, because it was a very small time frame and if they miss it by a day or two, I wouldn't want some of the more...excitable... posters in this forum to go nuts with the emoticons, death threats and exclamation points of rage. ;)

Did they give you any idea as to where they expect to put it? I've heard MacSoft's new web site is being designed right now but it's not there yet. I'm sure CivFanatics or Apolyton would be glad to host it until MacSoft is up.

Originally posted by gfeier
Did they give you any idea as to where they expect to put it? I've heard MacSoft's new web site is being designed right now but it's not there yet. I'm sure CivFanatics or Apolyton would be glad to host it until MacSoft is up.

They have a host or two already lined up - no worries there. I can mirror it on my website if all 50 excited Mac editor fans hit them at once. :)

Originally posted by Brad Oliver


They have a host or two already lined up - no worries there. I can mirror it on my website if all 50 excited Mac editor fans hit them at once. :)

That many?!?! :lol:

Originally posted by Brad Oliver
They have a host or two already lined up - no worries there. I can mirror it on my website if all 50 excited Mac editor fans hit them at once. :)
We're small, but we're enthusiastic. Heck, with digital manipulation and cunning use of the camera, we can appear to be thousands strong...

There may be more than you think. I am no modder, but I want to make my own maps. It is sooooooo frustrating when you are crusing along thinking you are going to win and then ... you hit replaceable parts... and ... you have ... NO .. . rubber... ANYWHERE!!! And no AI Civ has any to trade...

So, Mr. Oliver, although I like your game fine the way it is and don't plan to be tinkering with the rules or units, I will have maps with plenty of resources. Iron for everyone! A rubber for every Civ! A chicken in every pot! A car in every garage! An editor for every platform! A ... er... :blush:

Excuse me, I think I hear my boss calling me....

Heike, as an ex-soldier, I am mortified by your 'tag'. I have the greatest respect for chickens.

However, as a lover of this forum, I enjoy your humour and deep understanding of why we really play this addictive game.

@Sid:

My mother was a native-born German, my dad a US soldier. Growing up, close to half of the families I knew were US soldier married to foreign-born wife. I rest my case! :beer:

I would have put "... and eat the chickens." but it just didn't seem right. Anyway, there is more than one kind of "chicken," and if you read it with a slightly different interpretation, soldiers annoy the heck out of that other kind of "chicken" ... :lol:

i did not think that this version of the editor actually allowed editing of the maps? i thought it only permitted editing of the rules, hit points, and such. One of the fine things about the final editor is that it most certainly *does* allow editing of the maps, as well as placement of starting locations--something that would address the ridiculous tendency of this game to place the egyptians next to the americans on a map! This game has been such a disappointment on so many levels that the lack of an editor almost pales in comparison to its already exisiting ills--or rather, it ironically sums them all up :o/ i would very much like to see an updated SMAC!

i did not think that this version of the editor actually allowed editing of the maps?

:lol: Sorry, just thought it was funny.

Yes, this version does allow editing of maps, rules, and - whatever else there is. I don't believe you can specify start locations, though. :(

We'll have to wait for 1.29/PtW to be able to do that, methinks.

Basically the pre-1.29 editor can edit maps or rules. But it takes the 1.29 editor to really make scenarios. Say, placing units, or cities, or starting locations or any number of other things.

A very rough description, of course, but it think it gives the idea.

DiamondzandGunz,i wanna say that te priveus avatar picture,the stealth fighter,it fit u much better,i say u change it back!

Originally posted by Gottesfreunde
i would very much like to see an updated SMAC!

What do you mean by updated SMAC, Gottesfreunde? I too enjoy this game and expansion.

Originally posted by Inventor_of_Mac
DiamondzandGunz,i wanna say that te priveus avatar picture,the stealth fighter,it fit u much better,i say u change it back!

No, no I like it DnG! :goodjob: We need more realism! ;)

Side note: Everytime I use a smilie these days, the "cursor" reverts to the top of the reply post. Is this happening to anyone else?

no no really it did,muuuch better,andx by the way do you know where can i find Dragon Alpha game serial for free?
i have free Reckless Drivin' serial if u want...

eeeere...are serials cracks hacks keygens etc allowed in this forum?:santa:

I_o_M...

I personally would prefer it if they stayed off of this forum. The people that produce games and software for any platform work hard to do so. If you want them to continue their efforts, *purchase* a copy like everyone else.

To quote the forum rules:

Zero tolerance on piracy.
Posting links to warez sites, program cracks, and manuals are not allowed in the forum. Anyone found guilty of participating in piracy activity in the forum will be banned.

Which is to say, edit your post ASAP or you may find yourself banned without warning.

i was not saying that there was an update to SMAC. i have not even heard of one. However, i would like to see one, a SMAC II or something. i was really hoping that the diplomacy model in SMAC would make its way to Civ III. i think that the diplomacy in Civ III is rather dummied down. One of the nice things about SMAC is that the player can decide when and how to cancel treaties. There is none of that 20 turns crap. Additionally, and one of the most interesting things, was that in SMAC the player could entreat another civ to "lay off" an ally. One of the most frustrating things in Civ III is that once you engage in an alliance with another nation you pretty much have decided to go to war. This in turn, will hurt your score, or make other nations think you don't keep your treaties with them when the nation that you ally with is not allied with another nation you have some other treaty with. There is no way to create a group of allies as you could in SMAC. This, i think, is the underlying flaw in Civ III that makes it one of the silliest game "upgrades" that i have ever seen--very disappointing. Although the player has the suggestion of control, you really dont'--your treaties create a windfall of silly reactions by the computer players and you have absolutely no control over them. The nation you ally with will undoubtedly pull you into a war--usually against another nation you have some other treaty with, that then creates a windfall of wars. In SMAC, the player could engage in alliances and if war was about to occur, you could do something to stop it. It was more realistic, added a great deal more to diplomacy.

Originally posted by Gottesfreunde
In SMAC, the player could engage in alliances and if war was about to occur, you could do something to stop it. It was more realistic, added a great deal more to diplomacy.

Right, and I especially like that you didn't have to honor the alliance (MPP = Civ3) in SMACX.

Originally posted by Inventor_of_Mac
DiamondzandGunz,i wanna say that te priveus avatar picture,the stealth fighter,it fit u much better,i say u change it back!

Originally posted by dojoboy


No, no I like it DnG! :goodjob: We need more realism! ;)

Side note: Everytime I use a smilie these days, the "cursor" reverts to the top of the reply post. Is this happening to anyone else?

Thx for the feedback, guys ( even though I didn't really ask for any ;) ). I think I'll stick with this one for now, at least until I find something more... more... what's that word I'm looking for?

Anyway, no, when I use a smiley, the curser acts like it's supposed to. I mean, it stays where it's supposed to stay... it doesn't go anywhere.

Originally posted by dojoboy
Side note: Everytime I use a smilie these days, the "cursor" reverts to the top of the reply post. Is this happening to anyone else?
Not really. Are you using the...
okay, yes. I just tried it the traditional way - by clicking on the smilie. The cursor put the smilie in place and jumped to the top.

Hadn't noticed it before. I never actually click on the smilies to add them, I just manually type in the smilie code from the [Get More] window.

Actually, now that I really take a look at it (I manually type them out as well), it does revert to the top. I suppose that it could get annoying if I used the smilie buttons.

Have you noticed that you also can't insert a smilie into the middle of some text that you've already typed? I mean, it always gets inserted at the end of your reply when you click it, not where the curser is.

Well, here it is, roughly 4:45 PST and no editor. No blame, I know their hardly working on it, er, working hard on it... but another weekend slips by without the editor. Bummer.
:(
I think I'm going to talk to my wife, see if she's bribing them to keep it under wraps.

Originally posted by DiamondzAndGunz

Have you noticed that you also can't insert a smilie into the middle of some text that you've already typed? I mean, it always gets inserted at the end of your reply when you click it, not where the curser is.

Yea, but its been that way ever since I joined CFC, never thought it might be a bug - guess it could be. I just got use to it.

Originally posted by DiamondzAndGunz
Actually, now that I really take a look at it (I manually type them out as well), it does revert to the top. I suppose that it could get annoying if I used the smilie buttons.

Have you noticed that you also can't insert a smilie into the middle of some text that you've already typed? I mean, it always gets inserted at the end of your reply when you click it, not where the curser is.

I believe that is a limit of JavaScript - there is no way to know where the cursor is in the text, which means the script abviously cannot know where to insert the smiley. If there is a work-around, I don't know it :(

So, if I got it right, the editor is finished but they are waiting for the documentation to be ready? This is getting boring...

Originally posted by Kinniken
So, if I got it right, the editor is finished but they are waiting for the documentation to be ready? This is getting boring...
Quite right. They're waiting to post as they finish documentation... which is nice, but the thing is so long overdue that it's irritating to think about.

Or boring. Just last night, I played a little of "The Sims" ("Vacation" edition -- kept looking for Chevy Chase), "Ghost Recon" (kept expecting to see surrendering Republican Guards), and since I couldn't get my old "Unreal Tournament" to fire up, I pulled "Aliens v. Predator" off the shelf for the first time. Played 3 levels worth as a space marine (which had a spookiness I haven't seen since the first time I played "Marathon" some ten years ago).

No editor is boring, and annoying, and aggravating... but the other games were a nice distraction.

But like was said earlier with the arrow keys not working correctly, this documentation seems much more of a luxury, not a necessity. Understandably, a wierd bug may decimate a computer and it would be nice to read that in the documentation, however, it's still a luxury. An old question: How much longer? Any educated guesses?

As Brad said - soon. I would guess 1-2 weeks. But that is only an UNeducated guess.

It's been over a month since the editor went FC. Any idea on when? Anyone know anything about it?

Originally posted by absinthenyc
It's been over a month since the editor went FC. Any idea on when? Anyone know anything about it?
Check the "Al Schilling..." thread. He mentioned the timeframe. If not this past Saturday (and apparently "not"), then maybe Monday or Tuesday.

One day we'll be looking back and saying, "How the hell did it take two weeks for them to "finish documentation"?

Looking at my Civ 3 receipt, I bought Civ 3 Mac on 2/16/02. It is now 2/9/02. In exactly one week from now I will have had Civ 3 sans editor for one full year. :(

Its been a year for me. :( I preordered mine the day it (mac version) went gold. I believe it was 1/7/02 or 7/1/02 to those outside the U.S. ;)

Yeah, two things that really made the game fun (SMAC/X) was that if there was another nation getting too big for its digital britches you could get other nations to go to war against it without you having to do so yourself. This made espionage incredibly fun. Sometimes you'd get caught, but that was part of the fun too. Additionally, i really liked creating my own units. The ONLY thing i did not like about SMAC was that if you used a planet buster, the nation you used it against would NEVER speak to you again. When i hear or read all the talk of the advanced diplomatic functions in Civ III i just cringe. It is completely dummied down in my book. i can't help but wonder what the hell the creators were thinking. The game is addictive, in an OCD kind of way--but could have been so much more enjoyable with the graphics it has with the diplomatic functions of SMAC. When i first heard they were doing the game, i was excited as i thought there was no where to go but "better"--i thought it would be a matter of course to take the SMAC diplomacy model and build on it. Instead they created some mottled Hasbro version of diplomacy--an excruciating let down.

You're right, you know: Civ 3 has the exact same number of diplomatic options as Civ 2 (we gained MPPs but lost cease fires). It's just that, to be blunt, rabid fanboy supporters of Civ 3 refuse to admit Civ 3's lack of progress in their blind trust.

Being a poor college kid :o , i've not ever played SMAC or Civ 2, so all this bashing you do of a game i love makes me wonder how much greather these others are. Would they be worth putting forth the extra few bucks?

Originally posted by snoozz
Being a poor college kid :o , i've not ever played SMAC or Civ 2, so all this bashing you do of a game i love makes me wonder how much greather these others are. Would they be worth putting forth the extra few bucks?
Well... they're awfully similar. They're fundamentally the same concept, but when some people are steeped deep in the genre, the little tweaks make all the difference. It's not unlike two world-class sprinters debating the difference between "Nike" and "Asics" shoes. They do the same thing, in fundamentally the same way. The only difference is the "feel"... and what you're comfortable with.

So...? I'd find it on eBay or tinker on a friend's computer before shelling it out for it. Take me with a grain of salt though, I played Civ2 to death (made whole conversions for it). Also bought and played SMAC ad nauseum for a while, too. Fun, I'll admit, but not the be-all-end-all of this kind of game. There were even some things I loved about Civ:CTP that I wish Civ3 would just steal. Hopefully, they'll include some of these things for Civ4 (and MacSoft will port it with due dispatch).

SNOOZZ: if I were you, I'd save for a bit longer and get Masters of Orion III in the next month or so. You'd be getting state of the art programming on OS X. SMAC/X has been ported to a Public Beta by Brad Oliver, but it's a little unstable as you go up the tech tree. SMAC/X is a great game, but you'll miss some of the tweaks that Civ3 has been given; it is a much smoother game. Most of us miss two main things about SMAC/X: terraforming the planet; and the Unit Design Workshop. I'm sure there's other stuff, but these two are not part of Civ3, more's the pity.

You'll see various comments in these forums about MoO3, which has certain similarities to Civ games. Not sure how much it has been changed for the re-vamp, but MoO2 felt a bit like SMAC to me.

Originally posted by snoozz
Would they be worth putting forth the extra few bucks?

Aspyr Media (http://www.aspyr.com) for SMAC (Alpha Centauri) and SMACX (AC: Alien Crossfire). Definitely worth the money.:goodjob:

a WEEK HAS PASSED WHERE DA **** IS THAT EDITOR?! :wallbash:

Bashing? How was I bashing? I simply noted that Civ 3 doesn't actually provide more diplomatic venues than its predecessor, contrary to the claims of Firaxis and Civ 3's vocal supporters. I never said that Civ 3 was bad , or even not good. I can't see where you're going with this.

Oh, and I heard that there's a place where you can get Civ 2 for only shipping and handling; I've seen it, too, but I forgot where it is.

nmcul, I'll say it for you, " Civ 3 is a big disappointment for all the hooplah that was givin it ". I own, play, and enjoy it alot, but there are still things that let me down. When and if the editor shows up, it will solve alot of problems. If I can get good at designing new units, the game will become totally different ( hopefully ). I'd like to see Civ IV be a coupling of Civ 3 and SMACX. 1>Change the government and unit design to SMAC style.
2>Leave or improve the resources from Civ 3.
3>Get rid of global warming except for massive nuclear strikes.
4>Introduce religion types to the game; jew, Christian, hindu, confusius, etc. for that civil war idea that's been posted.
That's all from me. EZ

umm forgive the ignorance... what is SMACX?

Originally posted by Grey Randall
umm forgive the ignorance... what is SMACX?

SMACX (Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri: Alien Crossfire - X) is the expansion to Alpha Centauri (SMAC)- designed by Firaxis w/ Brian Reynolds (RoN) as the lead programmer. Great series.

A few posts up is a link to Aspyr Media where you can check it out and purchase it.

Originally posted by Inventor_of_Mac
a WEEK HAS PASSED WHERE DA **** IS THAT EDITOR?! :wallbash:

Well... after taking two weeks to convert the help files, I guess they just realised that the PC icon is only 32*32, and that they must create one at 128*128.
Don't worry though, one of their graphist is on the project, he should be able to start in two month when he is done with his current stuff. Of course, since the merger they are no longer exacly sure the guy is still employed, but if he's not they'll look for an other one in a few month, before deciding that Civ4 is just around the corner, and cancel the whole project before realising that they are not porting Civ4 for the mac anyway. Either that, or Apple will move to an intel platform, and the PPC editor will be obsolete. Something like that, anyway.
I predict we will get the editor in 2015, at which time PC users will be playing Civ10 or something.

And to think that Brad has had a working version for a few weeks now... :wallbash:

What's taking so long, Brad? If you want to release the editor just email the Mac editor to me and I will make it available. :)

I have been following the status of the Mac editor since the beginning and I have to say Mac civers are "too" patient. ;)

Originally posted by Thunderfall
What's taking so long, Brad? If you want to release the editor just email the Mac editor to me and I will make it available. :)

If that were in my power, I would have posted it to my own website a while back. :)

Originally posted by Thunderfall

I have been following the status of the Mac editor since the beginning and I have to say Mac civers are "too" patient. ;)


Thanks for your :help: Thunderfall. We try to encourage one another, to keep our spirits up. ;)

Any word at all?

:wallbash:

anyone have the SMAX Carbon? I have SMAC only, and recently got given the Alien Crossfire.

Originally posted by senecasax
Any word at all?

:wallbash:

Well, there is a phone no. on the Destineer site - (952) 697-6000. I called early last week, but things were in a state of flux just then. They probably have more info now. Guess I'll try them again when I get a chance. If you're really impatient, you might want to give them a call yourself.

Originally posted by ferretloverdc
anyone have the SMAX Carbon? I have SMAC only, and recently got given the Alien Crossfire.

I've got it. Email me your e-address again. I don't have it at home.

If you get it working, let me know. I never really tried it in OS X. Maybe we can team up in a MP game? :goodjob:

I sent it to ya. I would LOVE to try some MP games with somebody. NOTE: I am NOT great at these games.

I just sent it, its 3.1 MB.

You know, another really cool thing about SMAC/X that i observed is that when a player allies with another faction, that player can actually help protect cities through use of placement of their troops in the other factions cities. Additionally, you can freely give units. The diplomacy in that game beats Civ III hands down. i have been playing Civ III for several days now and have observed that there is very little in the diplomacy that actually makes sense to me, and the game has played to my base traits of obsessive compulsive disorder. The capacity to actually play a diplomatic game is simply chance and i have less control over these alliances and diplomacy than i had in Civ II. rant, rant, rant. i find that SMAC/X is very unstable on my machine now--both in OS 9 and in OS X-- after a few turns the game either literally crashes in OS X and freezes in OS 9. i would love to see an update, especially of the graphics--but would be fearful that they would dumb this game down as much as they have Civ III in the end.

Originally posted by edjay on Sept 26, 2002

Okay, as a pessimist-leaning realist, I've got to nay-say the appearance of the editor. Will the editor appear soon? Nay.
Okay. Maybe. Let's define "soon." Is there a geologist in the house?
Face it: the editor is bigfoot, nessie and Martian Elvii with polarized glasses and bronzed sideburns, all rolled into one. It is being protected by the same guys that are in charge of Area 51. It's a conspiracy I tell you! They took the so-called beta testers, the fans most likely capable of cobbling something together themselves, and switched the contracts they had to sign. They weren't NDAs... they were DNRs!*


This Says It All. :aargh:

Mac Moo3 or the editor? Now which one do you expect first?

Originally posted by gfeier
Mac Moo3 or the editor? Now which one do you expect first?

Based on past history,.....MoO3, which is fine by me. My hunch is, we'll get the editor once the new MacSoft website is up and running. Peter Tamte and Al Schilling mentioned they were working hard on the new site. Now, I maintain an academic site for my course (without the bells and whistles), but it can't be that demanding.

i love MOO2 and play it frequently, but i am not going to purchase MOO3 (or any other Mac title) until i have firm confirmation that my money is not going for a product where (regardless of whose to blame) i am relegated to the status of a beggar to get the complete and up to par version of it. i can't believe that we are here watching day in and day out for an editor to appear that was promised months ago, and even so, is obscelete without it ever being in our hands.

Originally posted by Gottesfreunde
i love MOO2 and play it frequently, but i am not going to purchase MOO3 (or any other Mac title) until i have firm confirmation that my money is not going for a product where (regardless of whose to blame) i am relegated to the status of a beggar to get the complete and up to par version of it. i can't believe that we are here watching day in and day out for an editor to appear that was promised months ago, and even so, is obscelete without it ever being in our hands.

Moo3 should suit you just fine. It looks like it will all be there. :D

But... That's what we thought about Civ 3!
Dum dum dum!!

Yeah, i have read that Mac work on Moo3 has continued simultaneously with the PC version. But, that is not good enough. Although i have read the replies to my holding of MacSoft accountable for this fiasco with Civ III my thinking remains the same... Although MacSoft is seemingly under new management now, i'm one customer who is going to have to see that there is a real dedication to ensuring quality product before i give them any more of my money. The LAST thing i am going to do is give them more of my dollars when this last game (Civ III) that i purchased from them is incomplete, hobbled, as i have not gotten what should have been in the box on day one of purchase.

ok.. lemme guess. The weather conditions on the east coast are now hampering the editor's release. Next week, it'll probably be that plague of locusts headed our way.

The Civ 3 Fans storm the offices...
:ar15: m a c s o f t :rocket: "give us the editor"
:ar15: o f f i c e :rocket2: "release the hostage now!"
:ar15: c o m p o u n d :rocket: "charrrrrggggeee!"
:soldier::tank::soldier: We..must..free..the..hostage..editor...

I just noticed the views on this thread exceed 2600. Goes to show how bad and how many mac users want the editor and PTW.

Mac users: :aargh: "Give us the editor and PTW!!"

Macsoft: :sniper:

Mac users: :ack: "OK, give us the editor."

Macsoft: :vomit:

Mac users: :eek: "OK, heres my life savings, my car, and my shirt, now can I have the editor, pleeeeease?"

Macsoft: :goodjob:

Guess just what showed up in my email 2 seconds ago from MacsoftGames?


**************************

Grey,

We have absolutely no control over the existing site. A new MacSoft
site is in the works and will be up as soon as humanly possible. The Civ III Editor will be available today or tomorrow.


On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 11:09 AM, Grey Randall wrote:

> You site hasn't been updated in AGES
>
> I understand about the merger, but no information whatsoever tends to
> make
> people think they're being abandoned.
>
> This complete and utter silence over the Civilization III editor is
> another
> issue.
>
> Why can't a beta be released until the documentation is done?
>
> This editor has been promised to us for over a year now and it looks
> like
> it's never coming out now!!!
>
> Grey Randall

***************************

Should we take this as gospel, or take it with a grain of salt?

That way we won't get disapointed if it's pushed back AGAIN :rolleyes:

I'll start screaming with joy when I have it running on my comp, not before... :(

Hmmm. I think the whole issue has made most of us salty enough as it is.


Barkeep! God's Blessings and salt licks all around for the Mac Civ III users!

Originally posted by Grey Randall
Guess just what showed up in my email 2 seconds ago from MacsoftGames?
**************************
[pipe dream email]
**************************
Should we take this as gospel, or take it with a grain of salt?
Grain? Water-softening block of salt? I'd have more confidence if we sent Hans Blix tot he studios to inspect if that had any possibility of happening.
...Nah, I'd take it with a strip-mine of salt.

Go ahead, MacSoft, prove me wrong. Please.

How did we all become so cynical...

oh yea, that little thing about the editor.

I wouldn't hold my breath until the editor is released if I were you :cringe: :vomit:
I think we've all been pretty patient (to greater or lesser extents) and I hope that everyone on the distribution end realizes this, but I doubt that we'll see the patch by the weekend.
The Five Phases of the Editor
1. Skepticism -- doubt spreads among the Mac gaming community of ever reaching near parity with the PC crowd.
2. Optimism -- Brad announces that he's finishing up the editor and it should be done soon.
3. Cynicism -- the editor is done and in the hands of the beancounters, etc. Should be released anytime now (weeks go by).

4. Pessimism -- Oh no, there has been a change of the guard, should be a couple more days (more weeks go by), etc.

5. Elation -- a pirate version of the mac editor appears on an anonymous FTP site (wishful thinking), or, God forbid, MacSoft comes thru on their promise and has the editor released.

Leaving us where? Still two steps behind the other 95% of the computing world and using the superior machine with inferior software.

(stepping down from the soapbox now -- please return to your regularly scheduled gaming.)

JP

Last year it was related that completing an OS 9 version of the editor would result in its taking at least "another month or two" to complete. The explanation given for doing an OS X only version was to ensure the editor could get out sooner--at that time, it was promised by April 2002. Although i was very upset by this news then, the effects of that decision have lessened as i have finally given in and moved to OS X when i purchased my new Mac. But, i still can't ignore the fact that we are practically eleven (11) months past the promised release date of the editor, and that even with that--the editor is obselete upon delivery. i just don't understand why--after waiting so long, the 1.29 editor is not being released that would keep parity with the PC side.

Originally posted by Gottesfreunde
The explanation given for doing an OS X only version was to ensure the editor could get out sooner--at that time, it was promised by April 2002.

No release date for the editor was ever "promised" by anyone. I recall making a few guesses and specifically labelling them as such, but I'm 100% sure there were never any promises. If you read it as such, you misread.

Brad...

None of this is directed towards you in any way shape or form.. We know your hands were tied.

Yeah right. I'll believe it when I see it. Kind of like the N64 I bought two weeks ago that the incompetent idiots still can't manage to get to me.

I still don't beleive it...

This is absurd. If a company is going to publish a software title, it should follow through on it. Waiting all this time for an editor, which (if I understand this correctly) is more or less done, and has been in that state for many months, is absurd. In general, don't start something if you have no intention of finishing it. I paid good money for this piece of software ($45), which is about $20 more than if I bought the PC version of it. OK, so I paid a premium for this software because it is for the Mac. Annoying, but I'll live. But, since I'm paying the full price, I expect the full product. To have to wait so long for a fairly essential part of the game isn't right. When I bought this game, I expected it to be updated and equivalent to the PC version. Instead, I find that my $45 doesn't mean as much for a Mac title as a PC title, because Macs only have 3% of the market. As a customer, I am angry. I paid the full price for this title, and I expect (for one thing) this scenario editor. Again, if you want to develop a Mac title, either do it correctly or not at all.

Sorry if this has been said a thousand times before.

-Jim

i have not meant any of my comments to be directed specifically toward you Brad. Although i am aware that any company is made up of individuals who work within it. Perhaps "promised" is too strong a word? What i do recall is discussion that the editor was due to be out by April 2002--whether this was a promise or an estimation, i do recall that even when i read that it was about a month or two away at that time. My disappointment with this game is only heightened further by observation that we are begging for something that i don't feel we should have to beg for. The product should have been provided expeditiously, if this meant getting other programmers on the task, this should have happened. Any argument that MacSoft, et. al., should not be held responsible for this is sheer nonsense--and utimately of little consequence. As a paying customer i want what i paid for. i paid for the editor. i want the same program that the PC user has. Since it is evident that MacSoft couldn't provide me with such a product i have vowed that they will not get any more of my money with which to shaft me with a second rate one--however, with the sale of the company, i am sure this only assists with further shifting of responsiblity, and i will wait and see what happens. i have said it already... it is just sheer lunacy that we are begging for a product here that is way over due and is not even up to par. i am incredibly disappointed and frustrated on practically every level i could be with this game. Understanding that resources are as they are, i would prefer a good product, a supported product to a poorly supported one. If i am going to pay more for a game to run on my Mac, i want it to have everything that it has when it runs on the PC. So if the problem is that not enough people buy Mac games to make supporting them appropriately viable, but failure to support them appropriately (parity issues) abounds and less people purchase them i don't see a brighter future for gaming companies or games on the Mac, and i see this as a problem that threatens the Mac itself. So if a game can't be given parity and supported well, it should be left to another company to port or be not ported at all. Anything else, i think, only further damages the reputation of the platform, angers the user, and damages the integrity of the company that ported it.

Hey Grey, I just noticed the title of your post above - "Holy Sheep Dip." Any connection there to the brand of scotch called Old Sheep Dip (or maybe Aulde Sheepe Dippe, not sure which spelling is used)? Supposed to be really good and expensive stuff despite the name.

(My dad is rather the scotch fan, I can't stand it personally.)

I agree 100%, Gottesfreunde. Not buying any games published by this second-rate company is a very good idea. This is the power that we consumers have. Many consumers don't realize this: we have the power to make or break companies! If consumers are not satisfied with a company, they go to another. This is a perfect example. If MacSoft doesn't deliver, then they can't exist as a company. I'll take my business elsewhere. When/if they shape up, I'll be back, giving them my money. This is how the American economy is run. I urge many other dissatisfied customers to boycott MacSoft products until they are satisfied once again with their products/service. This is the power of the consumer. It speaks much louder than a couple of nasty messages. The truth is, we have the power to shut down companies, or make them incredibly profitable. If this company wants to stay afloat, it will serve its customers.

-Jim

Originally posted by jbouklas
...I urge many other dissatisfied customers to boycott MacSoft...
Whew. Tough crowd tonight.

Can't say Jim is wrong, he's not. OTOH, the Mac community itself is a cottage industry subset of personal computing. It works by a different set of rules.

In one respect, Mac hardware and software practices consistently meet higher standards, hence the fanatical following. The tradeoff is that the business model has to be "massaged", if you will. If you want huge profits and standard behaviors from your economic formulas, you have to go to the bigger, looser, less controlled markets. In this case, you have to go sludge around the WinTel market. Some will, some have, some probably won't return.

Frustration is running high around here, myself included. There are MacFanatics and there are CivFanatics. Here, in this little corner of the forums, you get us crossbreeds that exhibit both the best -- and the worst -- that this combination has to offer.

So, MacSoft, you do indeed have to learn how to play with the big boys. As the Mac platform grows into the market share that OS X can offer, you're going to see some real-world loss of patience. You've probably opened a few toxic emails about this already, but it becomes something even more painful when shareholders and software reviewers handicap you before you even get out of the gate.

MacSoft -- even if we don't see products, let's see some honest communication... at least a token effort to step out from behind that veil of "Say nothing rather than disappoint." I can guarantee you, we seen all the "nothing" we can handle.

Originally posted by Gottesfreunde So if a game can't be given parity and supported well, it should be left to another company to port or be not ported at all.

If what you propose came to pass, we would be left without the Quake-based games (no level editors and very stripped down mod SDKs), the Unreal-based games, Civ3, SMAC (no faction editor), Tomb Raiders 1-4 (only 5 included the level editor), Dungeon Siege and a host of others. If your definition of parity included PC-Mac network interoperability, then that list would dwindle even further. About all you'd be left with would be Blizzard titles, The Sims, Monopoly Casino and Survivor. While I think voting with your wallet is comendable, you better prepare yourself for the reality of the situation. Of course if more people follow your lead, it presents a Catch-22 - less people buying Mac games means less Mac games, and the ones left being developed at lower cost.

Originally posted by jbouklas
If consumers are not satisfied with a company, they go to another.

So what other companies do you have in mind? I'd like to point out that MacSoft did buck the trend here and actually committed to delivering an editor. Only one other company on the Mac does that - Blizzard. Given that they publish one (very good to excellent) game every few years, that doesn't leave you with much alternative choice.

Granted the editor is way, way late, but talk of boycotting MacSoft because of this seems kinda wacky when the general rule on the Mac - by far - is for the publisher to not even budget for an editor at all!

Originally posted by ejday
As the Mac platform grows into the market share that OS X can offer, you're going to see some real-world loss of patience.

I'd like to point out that Mac market share has been slowly but consistently shrinking since the introduction of OSX (OSX is probably not the reason why, but that's no matter). You can witness the carnage first-hand by examining the sales breakdown of total Mac computers in Apple's quarterly financial reports over the course of the last several years. Back in the mid-90's, Apple was consistently moving 1 million Macs a quarter. Now they're averaging around 700k - 750k. I don't know exactly why it's stayed so flat - perhaps the "switchers" are just barely counteracting Mac faithful who have lost the faith, so to speak.

I agree that OSX will continue to do nothing to bring meaningful market share back to the Mac. Unless Apple comes up with something people can't do without - an unlikely possibility - their market share will stay where it is: below the threshold of a bounce. As EJ intimated, this makes for different rules.

I wish I could play the saved games that PC players post, but I can't (yet), because Macs don't have the 1.29 upgrade. I'd prefer that to an editor, and so did 2/3 of those who responded to a poll on this forum. On the other hand, Macsoft have already brought out several Civ3 patches that went far beyond basic game stability - something there was no compact with the customer to do. Is anyone here selling their Macs because Apple charged them for Jaguar after they took the plunge on the original, subpar OSX? I think that is more reprehensible than Macsoft bringing out an editor, however late, knowing that - at least in the short run - it will not make them any money.

In the end, I think I am not so frustrated with the absence of 1.29, PTW, or an editor for the Mac because Civ3 version 1.21 is an amazing, addictive game, and the Mac is my favorite computer. Otherwise, I'd get a PC and play 1.29 and PTW.

We are seemingly unanimous on this point.

Originally posted by jbouklas
This is absurd. .... I paid good money for this piece of software ($45), which is about $20 more than if I bought the PC version of it. I bought my copy for Euro 25 on eBay ;)
OK the PC version I got for Euro 23. :D

OK, so I paid a premium for this software because it is for the Mac. Annoying, but I'll live. But, since I'm paying the full price, I expect the full product. To have to wait so long for a fairly essential part of the game isn't right. When I bought this game, I expected it to be updated and equivalent to the PC version.

Tell this also Microsoft regarding Office ..... :D :D :D

When you buy a mac, well unless your a total idiot, you expect to have less from games... Tell me if I'm wrong, but everybody knows that games are on the PC. And those who still buy a mac knows what they are getting... so stop complaning...

And for my part, I beleive the problem of the mac platform these days is the price. The commun people have no reason to buy a mac when they can get a PC as powerfull for half the price!

Even though the Mac market may be shrinking i can say that they have greater brand loyalty than any other company i know of. i think they accomplished this through steadfast commitment to quality. Although i often dislike moves made by Apple and i have even disliked products they have put out, they remain even in the face of those mishaps, far above the competition in my personal view. This will ensure that when i go to purchase more computers for main use, they will be Macs.

If companies commited themselves to quality then i think that they could find the same loyalty from consumers.

i am not really concerned what other companies do, or what editors come with what when i am not purchasing from them. i am concerned about Civ III because i bought *this* game. SMAC had a scenario editor built into it, i was not aware of another one, the one built into the game satisfied my purposes quite handsomely and still does. The Sims games, although there are editors for them, they are created by fans rather than the company. If the games came with an editor and this was not ported by Aspyr, i would not purchase the title from them.

i am not suggesting a boycott of MacSoft. i am only saying that i am not going to give them any more of my money until i am positive the game i purchase is going to be supported appropriately and have the same additional components i see on the PC where necessary. i have shown through my purchases that i am willing to pay a premium to get what i want from them. If MacSoft or any other company wants to cut corners then the risk they are taking is that the consumer will be more aware the next time they go and spend money at a store.

i have never really paid attention to the name of the company that ported a game i wanted, i paid attention to the title of the game. What this fiasco has done, however, is it has made the name "MacSoft" stand out in my mind. And this has not been too good by way of my purchasing of titles i have seen and been drawn to with the MacSoft logo on them.

What i know, of myself, is that had this game come with the editor, and kept parity... had this whole fiasco NOT occured, i would now own Stronghold and i would have on order Master of Orion III. i would have done this without thought to quality as i would have taken that for granted, i would have simply bought them because they look cool. i did not purchase Stronghold and i will not purchase MOO3 until i am positive that things are going well with that game from others who do purchase it.

i rarely give thought to the computer i am getting from Apple. When i want another, i automatically go to them because after owning many of them over the years i have found they make a quality product. When i see the Apple logo, this is what it means to me. When Apple fails to make a quality product, i am disturbed because i know they generally DO make quality products.

So, i fully understand what is being said about most games not coming with enhancements that PC's come with. i was not entirely aware of this until Civ III came along. Although add-on packs to games often do not make it to the Mac, i did not pay for them either (such as the Civ II expansion) It is just that now that i fully DO know this NOW, i am more picky with my purchases and because of that MacSoft will be slow to get money from me, if it gets it at all. Because now, the MacSoft name indicates to me "buyer beware".

i don't want to hurt MacSoft through witholding my purchases from them. i simply don't want to waste my money. So if more and more people begin to feel the way that i do i can't see how this would be any good for the company, and i don't see how this would benefit the Mac platform to have yet another game company going under. However, i can't be responsible for that and i'm not going to go out and make a purchase simply on the basis of charity or as a show of support, i'm not that altruistic.

I didn't intend it to have any relation to scotch (that fine elixir of the gods)

Aulde Sheep dip? neve rheard of it.. I tend to drink scotch that meets the following requirements

1) Single Malt
2) Must see at least 2 wooden casks
3) It must be old enough to vote
4) I have to pick peat out of my teeth with every sip!

Trab...
The person who purchases a Mac expects that they are getting a well crafted product for the premium price they are paying.

i, as a Mac user, do not expect to get less of or out of games, i only expect to have a smaller selection. i am comfortable with this as there are few games that i get. i do expect to be flooded with useless software on the PC and to have to wade through miles of crap to get to the quality stuff, a headache i am thankfully and for the most part, saved from by merit of owning a Mac.

Further, generally when i am buying a Mac i do indeed know what i am getting. Anytime i have purchased a PC it has been a crap shoot, and i mean that literally almost...

Finally, you get--in most instances at least--what you pay for. If, as a "common person" you want champagne, but can only afford beer, then i don't think there is much of a question regarding what you will be drinking in that regard. That does not, however, make the beer as nice on the palette as the champagne, nor the buzz any better.

Finally, PC's indeed do have a great deal of speed, it just so happens that the darn operating system has to jump in your face at every single turn like a spoiled three year old so games are practically the best use for such a system, wouldn't you say? And, of course, bloated companies with just as bloated IT departments with personnel who have a greater need to look busy than to actually get real work done.

The issue here is parity and quality of product, a subject that could, argueably, be moot for a PC user, true. The latter at least, something that many Mac users have the advantage of taking for granted and therefore not so moot when we are faced with its absence in a product.

So i am not complaining because my beer tastes like beer. i am complaining because what i expected to be champagne is actually beer.

MacSoft is not doing the world a favor by porting these games. MacSoft is a business. It ports games to Mac to get the profits from it. Obviously, they find it not incredibly profitable, therefore not worth much of their time. That's one way to run a company. Another way is to make an outstanding product and watch people flock to it. I prefer the latter way to run a business. A good point was made here: what competition? It is an unfortunate situation. I can't buy Civ3 Mac from another company. I'm stuck in this monopoly (not that it is one in the traditional sense). Hopefully, if MacSoft continues to not deliver quality, other companies will assume the responsibility of these ports. OmniGroup, for instance, ports a lot of great games for the Mac. So, if MacSoft doesn't want to port the FULL game, editor and all, it shouldn't start in the first place. Agreed, it probably isn't cost-effective to port the editor. Well, then don't take on this task of porting Civ3 unless the ENTIRE game is "budgeted" for. There are other companies who would be happy for the business, I'm sure.

-Jim

Wait a minute, folks! Most of MacSoft's problems were due to Infogrames, its parent company until abut two weeks ago. It has just been bought by Destineer/Bold. Why is that a big deal? Because the boss of Destineer, Peter Tamte, was the ORIGINAL FOUNDER of MacSoft in 1993. It's going to take them a couple of weeks to get completely sorted out, but I'm absolutely delighted with this. You know they're gonna port PTW and I''m pretty sure they'll get it right this time. Believe me, for Mac gamers it's [party] :band:[dance]

Originally posted by Grey Randall
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacsoftGames
Guess just what showed up in my email 2 seconds ago from ?
...A new MacSoft site is in the works and will be up as soon as humanly possible. The Civ III Editor will be available today or tomorrow.
Should we take this as gospel, or take it with a grain of salt? [/B]
PST Noon... It's tomorrow.
::whistling theme to "Jeapordy"::

Originally posted by ejday

PST Noon... It's tomorrow.
::whistling theme to "Jeapordy"::



Why... yes... yes it is. Guess I need to take my mail and reply to it and ask what happened.

Well... I just got off the phone with the folks at Destineer Studios. This is what I was just told.

Apparently there was something they wanted to make sure. The editor will be available for download on two sites tomorrow morning. I was being spoken to by someone as he was naming the two sites, so I don't remember them.

Originally posted by Grey Randall
Destineer: Apparently there was something they wanted to make sure.
What, that we still want it? We're still here? That-that-that... why, I can't sputter enough!
The editor will be available for download on two sites tomorrow morning.
Like it would be available "today or tomorrow"? If I may have an editor today, surely I will pay you back on Tuesday...
I was being spoken to by someone as he was naming the two sites, so I don't remember them.
They'll probably be high-profile, easy-to-find sites. Maybe someplace like... Jimmy Hoffa's Giants Web Hosting Service?

But in all seriousness, thanks for keeping us updated, Grey.

Yeah, about what I was expecting. Fits quite nicely with the post office telling me "yeah, we have a package for you, but you can't have it until tomorrow." Of course, tomorrow the sites in question will go down, and the package will turn out to be the expansion pack I bought Saturday instead of the N64 to use it in I bought two weeks ago.

They'r thieves, they'r fuilty little thieves.
They stole it from us...
Where is it? Where is it?
They've stolen my precious and we wants it...

Originally posted by Grey Randall
Well... I just got off the phone with the folks at Destineer Studios. This is what I was just told.

Apparently there was something they wanted to make sure. The editor will be available for download on two sites tomorrow morning. I was being spoken to by someone as he was naming the two sites, so I don't remember them.

I just called them. The nice lady there said to look for it on download.com and to call back if I can't find it. Let us pray... :worshp:

I'd say to call her because it doesn't look like it's there.

Originally posted by Fier Canadien
I'd say to call her because it doesn't look like it's there.

I was following up on Grey Randall's post which said tomorrow.

Guess this means I'm gonna have to spring for Jaguar......

Originally posted by Nixnutz
Guess this means I'm gonna have to spring for Jaguar......

I think you'll like it. 10.2.4 works very well for me.

Spring for Jaguar?!?!? Brad, please tell me the editor will work with pre Jaguar OS X!!!

I'm still stuck on a Gossamer G3, which won't take Jaguar because of the lower speed processor (not to mention the fact that my 3 128MB DIMMs aren't up to snuff for Jaguar) This is starting to really hack me off.

Tenshi and I have just dropped $400 just so I could actually be able to print. I can't upgrade my mac, or buy a newer one to take advantage of Jaguar... I just hope to <insert deity name here> that i can at least use the editor on 10.1.4!!!

Oh.. been checking download.com since getting up this morning. 0800 and still no mention of the elusive editor.

Grey, I don't think you need Jaguar, as it wasn't available when work first started on the editor.

I feel much better... If after all this waiting it turned out that Jaguar was a requirement, I'd go postal!

Still no sign of the editor on download.com. destineer studios doesn't open till 10 AM central... 40 minutes until anyone can call and ask about the editor's location and distribution.

I've seen more anticipation here in the forum for the release of the editor than I did on election night when I worked in a campaign office!

Originally posted by Grey Randall
I've seen more anticipation here in the forum for the release of the editor than I did on election night when I worked in a campaign office!

Of course - this is more important.:D

1058 2/21/03

On the phone with Greg at Destineer studios as I type this. The person who is supposed to upload the editor to download.com arrived at work an hour ago.. it's being posted right now to download.com as we speak and I type.

Anyone have a friggin link? Its been an hour and I dont see it yet...

I've been going to the Mac page and doing a search on "civ" in the mac section, but not getting anything

here's the link I've been using:

http://download.com.com/3120-20-0.html?qt=civ&tg=dl-2003&search=+Go%21+

So... "friend of Greg" uploads it to C|Net, but I'd imagine that he can't post it there himself. That would be a C|Net job; they're probably doing the responsible thing, like scanning the file for viruses, going out for a long lunch, then coming back and using the file as a temporary doorstop until their regular doorstop comes back from the shop next Wednesday...

I've been checking the C|Net -> Downloads -> Mac -> Games area. (http://download.com.com/3150-2038-0-1-0.html?os=93&tag=dir) That seems to have a default listing by most recent posting... and it ain't posted yet.

1316 Editor is still elusive

on phone with Destineer studios again. It's a pretty big file (Any idea how big exactly, Brad?) and the person tasked with uploading it to download.com said it should be up there, and if it's not up there within an hour (that would be 1416....er 2:16) to call them again.

Oh well, I'll just keep playing Super Smash Brothers until it's there. Yes, the elusive N64 did actually arrive. Today is a good day.

heh. Like you, Beamup, I finally got something delivered when it was *supposed* to have been. Tenshi went and ordered an HP All-In One. I got the JetDirect for it today. Now.. if the danged all-in-one would just get here like it was supposed to have 2 days ago!

Yeah, it was annoying having the games for a week and a half before I had a console to play them on!

*Proceeds to kill Fox with Ness*

BTW, this was my first post here running X. I've had it installed for a long time but never use it - well, I rebooted into it in anticipation of running the editor soon.

I *love* X, and I hope you will too. Now....when the Editor does finally get posted, I think they will be DELUGED by downloads :-)

Well, at least i've been able to score a few Cubs tickets while waiting (oh so impatiently) for the editor . . . still waiting though

I belive the book "Illegal Aliens" has a phrase that would cover what will happen:

"The term gridlock became known in places like Outer Mongolia"

Originally posted by Beamup
BTW, this was my first post here running X. I've had it installed for a long time but never use it - well, I rebooted into it in anticipation of running the editor soon.
Congrats. Welcome to [cue upbeat, new-agey music] The Fuuuture...
So, whaddya think so far?

Hey, I've used X fairly extensively before to try it out. I don't like it. In particular, I hate that annoying multiuser file structure. Also, most of the software I use would have to be run in Classic anyway, so there's virtually no point at all to running in X most of the time.

i used to not like X, but when i got a new computer running Jaguar i quickly changed my mind. There is no going back. i love the eye candy. Additionally, the file structure, although a little threatening at first glance, grows on you over time, as well as the doc--a very useful tool. i would suggest dragging your hard drive to it and navigating from there. You can also get a little program called ASM that will give you the old finder menu to navigate through open programs rather than having to go to the doc. What i like more than anything is the abscence of all the system freezes and crashes. Although a little slower than OS 9, i am more productive in it as i can open several programs at once and work in other programs while things are still processing in others.

Originally posted by Grey Randall

I've seen more anticipation here in the forum for the release of the editor than I did on election night when I worked in a campaign office!

You must have been working for a Democrat. :D

Originally posted by Beamup
Hey, I've used X fairly extensively before to try it out. I don't like it. In particular, I hate that annoying multiuser file structure. Also, most of the software I use would have to be run in Classic anyway, so there's virtually no point at all to running in X most of the time.

Took me a while to get used to OS X myself, but I actually like the file structure and 9 just seems so... clunky now.:)

Is the editor out already??

BTW the 1.29f patch for Spanish, French, and German PC versions are now available.

Only the Mac 1.29f is missing now... :mischief:

Not yet, but supposedly a matter of minutes or hours.

You didn't get that check yet? I distinctly remember sending it in the mail. Maybe it'll show tomorrow? Yes, yes, sir. I DID send the check. It's in the mail.

-Jim

Why am I feeling like I should put a pot on and watch to see if it boils???

That sounds more exciting than watching the paint dry on the wall beside me. Normally I'd go outside and watch the grass grow, but alas, my lawn is covered in snow. What will I do to pass the time until this editor finally comes out.

I'm guessing that both the late hour (EST anyways) and a quick glance of the new releases on downloads.com that the editor probably won't be posted until monday. (there are no weekend new releases on the site.... :sad: )

Of course, I would love to be proven wrong.

grover8

Oh, how high my heart soars with the thought of Grovern8r being wrong!

1613 Still no Joy on this end.

"Greg says it's out of our hands and you should be able to find it on download.com and on macgamefiles.com"


Well, I just looked at both sites and still no sign of our editor.

in an earlier posting i thought i read that download.com was 1 of 2 sites that were hosting the download? Is there really another, and if so, what would it be?

oops... macgamefiles.com

read above, God's Friend! :) It'll be at download.com or at macgamefiles.com I'm looking at both sites (No... it's still not there...)

it's 4:30 EST and no sign on either Download.com or macgamefiles :(

The good news is that I might actually leave the house this weekend.

Murphy's Law says there will never be (never was) a mac editor. :mad: Monday would be more than dandy to see it though.

the first place it will show up is at westlakeinteractive.com just go to ther project status page

MACGAMEFILES!!!! GO NOW!

Don't use safari, it wouldn't go through. I launched IE and it flew straight through. 3.1 megs, not that big... what was the deal?

I'm downloading it right now. Hmm. It certainly took long enough. The download is slow as crap, at 23kbps. I took until, what, 5:00? At least they kept their word about today.

-Jim

Originally posted by Grey Randall
...on phone with Destineer studios again. It's a pretty big file ...

Pretty big file? Dunno how long it's been since I considered 3.1MB "pretty big."

Got it now. Off to play.

:crazyeye:

Originally posted by legatus
Don't use safari, it wouldn't go through. I launched IE and it flew straight through. 3.1 megs, not that big... what was the deal?

Worked fine for me in Safari.

Woohoo!

It's crashing... I can't open a map or generate a map... all it does is crash.

edit:Because I'm an idiot and can't actually read the instructions that say "put the application in the civIII folder". Sheesh.

@ legatus: :lol: Was just about to post that.

Make sure you guys read the Readme! You gotta put the editor in the Civ3 folder for it to work.

Got mine with Safari, no problem, just a bit slow - probably due to the rest of you downloading it at the same time. I think we can finally put this thread to bed now. :D :D :D

Downloading now!!!

Hmmh. While everyone's still reading this thread... I think I found a bug... already!

It's nothing major, just something that's already started to annoy me. Pull down the Civ3Edit menu, and you can't hide the application. Screenshot attached.

Wow, lots of new faces brought about by the editor posts! FYI, there is an old post called "mac role call" if you want to post in it. It names all mac users using civ fanatics. Its not required, nor will you get a prize, but it does somehow satisfy.:goodjob:

btw, last I checked there was 50+ posts and 260 using the 'mac os x' theme.

Mac CivIII Editor: First Impressions:

1- Slow as crap. On my 800MHz G4 with 2MB L3 cache and 768MB of RAM, driven by an ATI Radeon, it is slow as crap. It runs 10X slower than Civ3!

2- Some minor interface bugs

3- many icons look like crap

Overall, it works, but it is clearly not "finished." Performance is a major issue. They could have taken another 3 months on it and made no progress, I'm sure. So many months passed and I at least expected something fine-tuned and polished. Oh well...

-Jim

Still suffering through work... won't be able to tinker until this evening. Ack! Lemme out! I need to Mod!

i'm glad to have been proven wrong about the timing, but i wish performance would have been better. and the os X is not a good option. personally i don't like os X (even if those who now use it thing os 9 is clunky, it's still familiar). Other than those two minour complaints.... YEAH!

Hello I have gotten the Editor, Seem to work pretty good so far. Making a Huge map on my 400mhz PowerMac takes some time, but I can live with that.

However I can't find the place to create New Troops? Does anyone know if this version allows us to do that? I was really hoping it was going to.:confused:

My editor keeps quiting on me. Anyone else having this problem yet? Yes the editor is in the Civ 3 folder, even unzipped right in there. Me mac jes' says "Civ3Editor has unexpectedly quit. No other applications or system was affected". What's the deal? :( I am at a disadvantage since i don't even like OS X.

A little poem:

Though the Mac lacked the editor, fine
I knew with a wait, it would finally be mine
So imagine my shock when
I found it worked only for OS X
And all that I've got is good ol' 9!

Originally posted by snoozz
My editor keeps quiting on me. Anyone else having this problem yet? Yes the editor is in the Civ 3 folder, even unzipped right in there. Me mac jes' says "Civ3Editor has unexpectedly quit. No other applications or system was affected". What's the deal? :( I am at a disadvantage since i don't even like OS X.

Did it unzip into it's own seperate folder? If so, take it out of that folder, and put the app directly in the Civ 3 folder. If not, I don't know.

Btw, I created a seperate thread of the editor; I would appreciate if everyone would post all issues/comments/questions there, since this thread is getting a little long :).

One Mac Civ 3 editor, one year and five days since I first found out that I'd been shafted. 6 months ago I would have been overjoyed. Now I'm just bitter. But don't let me destroy your mirth; I, for one, am a better person for this experience. Before Civ 3 I was just another idiotic teen-age shopper, the marketer's favorite target. Civ 3 has taught me that RESEARCHING and PREVIEWING products is crucial to getting my money's worth. So here's to Civ 3 and its editor: better $54.11 now than $1000 later.

ARRGH. If you look at a dial-up modem you'll notice that the phone ports only use two prongs! My mouse cable is thicker than that! I can almost see the information getting congested while trying to squeeze through!

westlake is slow to update ... i wuz wrong but wheres the mini map

Originally posted by jbouklas
Mac CivIII Editor: First Impressions:

1- Slow as crap. On my 800MHz G4 with 2MB L3 cache and 768MB of RAM, driven by an ATI Radeon, it is slow as crap. It runs 10X slower than Civ3!

I benchmarked it against Civ3 (at least the map scrolling) on an iBook G3/500 and my G4 DP/800. On both, scrolling the map was about the same in the editor as in Civ3 proper. Neither the game nor the editor scroll blindingly fast, but I can't say that I've seen performance anywhere near 10x slower in the editor vs. the game. I would welcome some hard numbers comparing the two on your setup if you believe this to be a very visible and obvious problem. What version of OSX are you running? You might see dramatic benefit from restarting OSX if you currently have an extremely long uptime.

Otherwise I'll assume by slow as crap, you mean your Mac has diarrhea rather than constipation. :)

2- Some minor interface bugs

What would those be?

3- many icons look like crap

They are icons from the PC editor, naturally. :) I'm no artist, but I'll gladly include better icons if someone wants to draw some.

Originally posted by DiamondzAndGunz


Did it unzip into it's own seperate folder? If so, take it out of that folder, and put the app directly in the Civ 3 folder. If not, I don't know.


Unfortunately, it's in the civ folder, not the unzipped created folder. And it still just quits. I'm running on a 700 mHz iMac, OS 10.1.4, if that helps. I also have the problem that i can't turn my modem off. Would this affect the editor performance? OS X... :die: Dumb os x...

Did you just update to OS X? Immediately after we got OS X, Civ 3 (which I had installed on OS 9) told me that it couldn't start up because of some sort of BS problem (I think that it said that there was something wrong with my computer's fonts, even though 1) I checked and this simply wasn't true, and 2) that's a pretty lame excuse anyway), so I trashed Civ 3 (and my high scores along with it! :( ) and reinstalled it in OS X. Then it worked fine. (Well, as well as Civ 3 works, anyway.) I wish I had remembered to save my high scores, though.

Originally posted by Queue
However I can't find the place to create New Troops? Does anyone know if this version allows us to do that? I was really hoping it was going to.:confused:
If it works the same way as the PC version, you will need to click that little shield icon to select an active player first before adding units or cities to the map.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/edit_setactive.gif

Originally posted by Thunderfall

If it works the same way as the PC version, you will need to click that little shield icon to select an active player first before adding units or cities to the map.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/edit_setactive.gif

Sorry TF, the mac version is way behind the PC version, and has no such button. There is no way to add troops/cities in this one, along with a lack of many other things. :(

Originally posted by DiamondzAndGunz
Sorry TF, the mac version is way behind the PC version, and has no such button. There is no way to add troops/cities in this one, along with a lack of many other things. :(
Oops, I forgot that. Firaxis added city and unit placement in the the 1.29f patch.

The Mac editor is the editor from the 1.21f patch I guess.

The interface bugs are minor, like I said. When selecting a number for some stat, it sometimes skips the number 2, or stays on 1 for two clicks. The program can't be hidden. Minor stuff. However, it runs very sluggishly on my Mac. My Mac runs everything very well, and this 3.1MB editor runs rather slowly. Right clicking on terrain doesn't respond with a menu for about 2 seconds, which is not up to par with any other program I've used, including LightWave while working with large projects. The editor works, it just works slowly and, well, slowly. A piece of crap by any standards, but it gets the job done. If it was an excellent product, I wouldn't say anything negative about it. I feel it is a crappy product, and I'm letting you know my viewpoint. You can disagree, by all means.

-Jim

It runs VERY slowly for me, too - to the point where a single click (say, changing one tile from grassland to mountains) takes 1.5-2.0 seconds.