There is a lot to learn about the world today. Can we not just capture it in a scenario and learn?

Originally posted by _Impreza_
There is a lot to learn about the world today. Can we not just capture it in a scenario and learn?

Of course, yet here I fall back on what I'm starting to (without humor) think of an "Ozymandias 101" question -- What is it you wish to learn?

-- More concisely, what is it you wish to model? -- A "model" is a set of assumptions about reality, be it of an airplane or an economic system. A Civ scenario is a model -- however abstract and simplified -- of some stripe of historiographic model.

So I think you're asking the wrong question, which should be, "What are the forces at work today which I think most significant, and how can they be made to interact within the context and constraints of the Civ system?"

This (aside from the rest of life and all) is one reason why my 1071 CE mod is taking such a bloody long time to devise -- I start each iteration with modelling individual aspects of the world, which I deem significant, and cutting them loose. The "trick" is then ascertaining (1) how realistically you've modelled each of these circumstances (2) how "realistically" they work together to model the actual interacting forces at play, and (3) is the result actually enlightening -- and fun! :p

Best Wishes,

Oz

Well my United Kingdom scenario is a place to start work on. Making it more realistic in poulation terms, economic terms and military, such as naming units. Also graphics to change would be great. I dunno whther it would be good to use Krytons new garphics in a modern day world scenario. But i think we can make people undertsnand what is happning in the world today more easily. If we made a scenario. I think we need to do this.

One problem is that the forces at work today were started in motion thousands of years ago. Trying to teach people why things are happening today the way they are requires that you teach them what happened way back when.

A noble challenge.

do you believe war is civilization or that war aids civilization? I want people to understand the political situation aswell. Also to understand why we are attacking them. Its very hard to understand why and how war happens, but civilixation is the game that represents our world and should we not use that to good benefit?
Also why can we all not work together as one community on a set of scenarios that can take people through history to the modern day, not random scenarios by random people, but by a big effort from all of us. This would not only benefit us but also other people and also the makers of the game. I think yes this is a noble challenge. We need graphics designers, plenty of people with an imagination and people who know their history and people who know events happening today. Are you saying it cant be done? Here at civfanatics, many things have been done, great things in moving the game forward, but would it not prove how strong we are a community if we could all come together to deliver a message of are own? Is it not a responsibility we hold as the people who play the most realistic game ever? I think this can be done if we did something about it and if people understand why it needs to be done thus for.

I am not saying it can't be done, I am just saying you can't start it out in 2002.

yes, and i am agreeing with that, im saying why not a whole set of scenarios, leading to the present day explaining "why things are happening today", do u think that could be done in that way? and would you for one be willing to help. Also no one will get credit, well not one person, this should be done by the community together to teach people, to help them and us understand better. This would primarily also not just be made to teach but also to be exciting, which probarly would say what civilization is also meant for.

I think you will see that there are several scenarios already in the works that attempt to depict a certain period in history. Some of them, the better ones, are attempting to be as historically accurate as they can, within the limited parameters of the game. When these are all said and done they could create a very nice teaching tool.

I have also made one, but didnt u not say that we need scenarios explaining why this happens, and we can only use the limited paramiters as much as possible if we were working together. This would be great for so many purposes. Do you not think this is a good idea?

I think its a good idea to try and use Civ3 as a learning tool. In fact I hope that people learn a little something from playing my own mod.

i will have to say we all learn something playing ur mod. but will u help me in this scenario?

What kind of help are you looking for? I am definitely willing to give my ideas to such a project. Its really all I have to offer.

From what I am seeing there are going to have to be several scenarios because I don't think its possible to adequately cover the whole span of human history in one alone.

A problem that arises is the balance between recreating history and allowing the player to control their own destiny. I don't think you can really do both.

well war evolved from the greeks, when farmers went for land etc. Then the Greek, Persian wars, then Alexander the Great, Roman times, the dark ages, middle ages, industrial times, atom age first half of 20th century then to cold war and then modern day? Well i need graphics and ideas. This needs to have about 12 people to start off. I allready have a present day scenario. Which is pretty good, butr needs so much improvement. But we need to start form the start.

Where are you coming up with the twelve people?

And how do you figure war evolved from the Greeks?

The first people were from Africa, and the first cities were in Mesopotamia. The first civilizations were along the Nile, Tigris & Euphrates, Indus and the Yellow River valleys.

I am guessing that there was some sort of tribal warfare way back when Man started picking up sticks and stones to break other mens bones, and I am sure that by the time the River Valley cultures developed warfare was a common way to settle disputes.

well u can say i have a random number, but anything can make sense when talking of people fo0r ideas, u can call african warfare and warfare before the greeks, primarily raids and small skirmishes, the Greeks is where is took off from, when people raided farmers crops etc, is when people knew they had to protect the land therefore every man fought nearly, with armour etc, this is the starting point of where warfare as we know it took place, but i dunno warfare in africa etc with raids etc can also be relevent as terrorist could be seen as making raids, maybe not military but a raid this could be seen as.

So you don't consider the warfare conducted by the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Indo-Aryans, Shang, etc. to be really warfare?

Not warfare as we know it today, primitive warfare maybe but not the standards of the greeks, but both were in the cause of the same thing.

You don't think that the Assyrians, et. al fought in formations with spears, bows, and swords? Heck warfare as we know it today didn't show up until 1990, but that doesn't mean that a teaching tool that aims to enlighten players on how the world got into the state it is in now should begin in 1990.

I think you need to reconsider when "warfare" developed. Do a little research on early civilizations. I think you will find that long before the Indo-Aryans invaded the Pelopenese and taught the Greeks to fight, people were waging wars in other parts of the world.

I can take in fact what that history was, but was Greek warfare was different from other kinds of warfare, and is a step up from other, and i do think it is warfare as we know it today the weapons have only changed.
I welcome viewpoints and am pleased we do have different views, can that not strengthen a potential scenario?

should they all be based in one world map?

It depends on what you are trying to model.

How the whole world has developed and how war has developed how civilizations come and go from all across the world, from the Mayans, to the Ottomans

Also can we do the modern day stage of the project without being biassed of our views?

I don't think this is possible. :( There are too many variables that can not be included in the simple game of Civ3.

What is not possible? which thing are u reffering to?

The whole thing. From the sound of it,it is too expansive. Too much for me right now at least. :)

ok. i will do it then.

As I said, a noble challenge. Good luck.

Thank you. I will try. but i still think we need an Iraw scenario then.

I may be able to lend a hand with the larger project around the end of March.

well i have a launch pad scenario in the United Kingdom scenario. Have you yet played this? 31 nations scenario, i would need graphics for that, i allready have a civlopedia coming then.

haven't played it. I don't get a lot of time to play. :(

how many scenarios are u making Impreza

i dunno yet, one at a time, haha

so youll start off in the ancients time right like babylon and hitties

well lets say i allready have industrial and modern day scenarios, but i still need to improve them, but yeah ancient greece etc will be there then.