Okay, I get the general impression that everyone hates CTP2. Well, almost everyone. I bought the game days after buying my computer (since I couldn't find Civ II at the store I was in) and have played it for many hours, and it doesn't bother me. I have played only offline, so maybe that's one of the reasons I haven't encountered many bugs (except for a Wonder video frame not disappearing and enemy units animations jumping after building the GlobeSat Wonder) and the few I have encountered are very minor. Am I just more laid-back about bugs than everyone else?
The only thing I really had to adjust to was not building roads with engineers. But to tell the truth, I kinda like it this way (except when I have to build a city outside my territory just so I can link two other cities, then disband the temp city.)
To me, there is nothing truly innovative about CTP2, but it is a more refined and enhanced version of one of the greatest games ever made. (And unleashing a horde of "hunter/killers" <Moray Strikers> upon your enemies shipping is a blast.)

OK, I'm prepared to be broiled. Unleash the hounds!!

I will open thy heart my friend and tell you why.....
You know the diplomats in CTP -- they say
"I WILL TRY"

But the Yoda says, Do or DO NOT -- there is no TRY!.....
and this is the basic foundation for our renoucement of CTP and CTP2....IT's really THAT SIMPLE... http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif

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So you don't like the game because of the grammar and vocabulary of the diplomats...

Makes sense to me...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/confused.gif

LOL, you need some help on the deeper meaning.
The Simplicity of what I said lays in-between irony and grammar.....
You see they tried to make CIV3 with CALL to POWER....but really they only TRIED to do it.
IT was only a repeat of what had already been done with some better graphics.

You ever see the Matrix? Remember the screen with all the numbers?
It’s about that, when you become a Civ Master you see Supply and Demand, Trade Production....CTP and CTP2 has no depth. It is actually more simple than Civ2, But try and see for yourself if you need to http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif



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After I had played a coup[le of games I started to get bored because everyting was repetitive and if you are winning early on I did not see how anyone would actually lose because you always have the best stuff.

Would you like to play a racing game if you have to press left to go right and up to brake, down to accelerate, etc... Yes?
Ok, I'm exagerating a bit but the main idea is that I doubt that was a human being who designed the CTP interface and ergonomy.
Now I'm pretty convinced that a penguin programmed it.

BTW, Johan, you know what? We really share the same and commons thoughts. You've just quoted my favorite sentence, from the wise Yoda. Are you telepathic? http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Johan, I wish I could make the claim to be a Civmaster, unfortunately I have to many demands on my time. I do understand what you are saying now that you've ditched the Yoda-speak (Nothing against Yoda, it just sounds too much like the stoner in <u>Dude, Where's My Car</u> since I just saw that...).
I think you are right that they tried to make Civ III, who wouldn't? And as I said originally, I consider CTP2 to be a refined and enhanced Civ II. But does that truly make it a bad game?

I think not. I have never played CTP, so I cannot speak about that. How many hours did you try CTP2. I think people here automatically are slanted against the game, because it isn't Civ II and Sid Meier had nothing to do with it. (Bugs don't help...<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/tongue.gif" border=0>) But there is trade, supply and demand, etc. in CTP2.

Oh Genghis, I agree that the interface sucks. I just use the Function keys to get to everything I need. I think I lost my point here. Tangential thoughts be damned.

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"Dude, where's my car?" -Jesse
"Where's your car, dude?" -Chester

[This message has been edited by Herandar (edited July 04, 2001).]

At least I'll admit it has one "good" point: earth connection mode. I mean you can choose that your map can be connected on the poles, or (the or is exclusive. XOR if you prefer) on the east and west sides of the map.
Otherwise, as you and I said, to access a city map, what a pain in the a**. On Civ2, you naturally click on the town. Or clicking on an enemy town poped up a screen showing what this city demanded (for caravan trade).

but we can't blame them because (and for your information) the Civ2 interface was protected by copyright. They even protected the "clik on the city to enter it" system, so Activision had to find something else. But good lord, why did they choose that painful system?

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Probably because they got a bunch of people from various backgrounds to form a focus group, which invariably picked the wrong solution. http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/hmph.gif I don't know, what would you have done? I mean if you cannot directly click on a city, how many options do you have left?

I want to veer into a historical question now because the thought occurred to me whilst reading your post: Is there "bad blood" http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/mad.gif between Activision and Sid Meier/Firaxis? I don't really know the history and was wondering if anyone could fill me in. Thanks.

Ok to answer you, actually not really. Sid was the creator of Microprose, and he left this company several years ago to create Firaxis. He always disliked too huge companies. That's why he fled MP. It had become too big. Back to Activision. There was no link with them, but the f**ing greedy boss of Activision was looking for profits using the copyrighted name of "Civilization(tm)". Then they proved that the original owner of this right was not MP but Avalon Hill (advanced civilization) so they bought them and claimed the right to use Civilization exclusively. And then started the war. Now I suggest that we condemn Activision by a huge boycott as it's stated in a Civ3 forum thread.

Anyway, I don't know further details. And I don't visit a lot this forum so don't expect a quick reply http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif

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I'll tell you why I hate this game. I worked for over 6000 years and finaly discovered the Gaia Controller. Then, because of some strange bug, whenever one of my cities built a Gaia Power Satellite, it went back to that city's building list.
But I decided that like yoga said - I will finish the game, not just try to. So I took the diplomatic path. Another wonderful bug decided I can't make an alliance with another countries. I did anything that can make them ally with me - I withdrew, I gave tehm Techs, cities, anything. And they still won't ally with me when I offer them in return a city size 50.
But being as determined as I am to finish this game, I went the Military way. I started taking over their cities, when another bug messed up with my messages system. I started getting messages saying "noyon" or "few". Without messages telling me that my people were starving and that my cities didn't produce anything, my glorious empire fell apart and I couldn't afford to keep my beautiful army.
By that time the game was almost over, so I survived the last few turns and I was about to win (I had the most points) when the last turn came and another bug decided to crash my computer whenever I was getting to the last turn.

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Are you talking to me?

Hmmm When I played it, it wasn't that bugged...

Well, I guess I did have a VERY bugged game. It feels like the game replaced my hard-drive with an ant colony.

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Are you talking to me?

One thing I really dislike about CTP2 are the other civilizations when you play. Whenever I play I always go up against the same ones, I think they're British, French, German, Irish, Scottish, and something else, then me. Always the same. Never fails. Though one cool thing about CTP2 are the governments. Technocracy forever! heh (RIP Howard Scott)

I love the game it's great as far as bugs go i have played the game since it came out. I have yet to see anything like what was described as far as bugs go if I were you I would run an antiviri program on your hd lol.

It is possible to change the starting civs but they are defaulted to the Scots, English, German, Irsih etc...

I bought the Mac version of CTP 1. It was so glitchy, I was frequently tempted to put my fist through the screen. After a while, though, I learned the tricks: aiming the cursor above and to the left of what I really wanted, etc. And to be fair, a lot of the problems I experienced was doubtless due to my processor being not quite up to the 'required' speed.
Anyway, I finally got to where I could play it, and I enjoyed the hell out of it - once played ALL night, 'till dawn, and then some. Played them right up until they crashed, which, alas, they always did (apparently whenever I got into the Rennaissance).
I saw signs of hurried development, and I had high hopes that CTP 2 would fix most of the troubles I had. And from what I hear, that's mostly true . . . but WHEN am I gonna see the Mac version of CTP 2 ?!? I mean, I can't even find someone to ASK!
If ANYONE reading this has a CLUE about where I might find an answer to this question, please, puhLEASE post it!

why i hate ctp? well, once i had a single warrior forified in a jungle square, it was attacked by an army made up of one samurai and three warriors, need i say my warrior won the battle? need i say that my warrior was still in the green after the battle? also after i built some wonder, that wonder decided to take control of my civ, half of my cities rebelled including my capital and all the other "good" cities...... the only good thing is that u r allowed to take slaves

when i build a gaia power satelite it automatickly goes to my build cue again and i can build more.
i now have built it about fifty times in one city
is this a bug???:confused: :confused: :confused:

Having gotten my old CTP running well (faster chip), and having poured over the documentation for CTP 2, I think I see why so many who liked CTP (which was a #1 seller in its genre at one time) turned away from CTP 2, desPITE the fact that it is an even better game . . .
Reason 1: The Munchkins are mad because - (1a) Most of the abusive, game winning Wonders from CTP 1 have been toned down or deleted entirely - AND (1b) the highly abusive gold multipliying city improvements have been likewise toned down.
Reason 2: While the 'Wonder Victory' ending in CTP 2 is a little less wacky than the one in its predecessor, it still reeks of eco-silliness. Those not of the Tree-huger persuasion would tend to be disappointed. Why can't someone come up with a Civ-type game with 'dailable' pollution intensity, the way they let us dial up ocean percentage, etc, when setting up a game?
Reason 3: As if to counterbalance the above, whence comes this new facination with Crime? I mean, are they trying to win back the Republicans they pissed of with their emphasis on 'ecology'? Together, I think these last two items represent a new low in selling out artistic integrity for hte sake of appealling to fashionable politics.

There are a number of bad things about CTP.... but I think it's really pathetic when people become such zealots for the standard Civ games that they don't recognise several of the ways that CTP actually improved on things.....

For God's Sake, Sid, GO TO THE FUTURE..... the "only goes to 2020" thing really gets annoying..... I mean.... it wouldn't take THAT MUCH more effort to add in what CTP called the "Genetic Age" and "Diamond Age".... they were implemented POORLY in the ToT version of Civ2.... and I hoped they would just take the extra pinch of effort to put them directly into Civ3......

Survey Says: X

I think that a lot of these people that criticise CTP1 and 2 have not taken the time to learn the game.
I was also dissapointed at start because of the new way to play. But i was patient (probaly because i had spent 350 danish crowns on the game). I sat down for 2 - 3 days and learned how to play it. As more i played as more i LOVED the game.

There is a whole lot of good stuff in the game. The micromanegement is history. You dont need to move all your settlers/workers around and irrigate make roads ect. Just take lets say 10% of your empires production, and use it to improvements.
Make strategic armies by combining 1 - 12 units. play in the FUTURE!!:) and there is a lot more.
But there is one thing that bother me. You cant play on earth... until you download a map. Why did they not make a earth map??

Im sorry to hear that there is a lot of people who think the CTP series is a flop i cant understand it.

Right now i play civ3 and try to be as possitive as possible... BUT there is just not the same thrill like when i play CTP2.
And ofcourse there is a lot of irritating bugs and strange combat calculation in the game.

By combining the the two games you will have a historical civ. game. Copy these thing: The strategic resources, the diplomaty, the culture and make some wonders like "the small wonders" in civ3 whitch require something before you can make them. Then combine them with CTP2, and make CTP3... now there is a real historical game. :king: :king:

... by the way.. anyone know if there will be made a CTP3???

I have only played offline. And i have not encountered any bugs(if there has been any i have not seen them).... and i have played it a lot. But i can see that there is a lot of complaints about bugs in the game. Is it because of new patches or is it something about internet play???

it's simple the AI is pathetic..how can you lose?

bad interface too.

tom

Originally posted by tomdy2k
it's simple the AI is pathetic..how can you lose?

WHAT!!??:eek: :eek:
How can you lose??

Wait-a-minute... Do you guys just buy the game and play it...end of story?

No downloading of any mods?

There are loads of Mods out there Especially to enhance the AI.

Evere heard of "Frenzy AI"-"diplomod"

Do you guys even play on any game mods such as "Apolyton pack" or "GoodMod"

What pathetic and absoult crap!!!!

I play with the Apolyton pack wich includes 'Dale's Diplomod', 'airunit', 'Destroy City' (lets you destroy a city once you take controll of it) along with many more...

Now Tom..If you claim that the AI is too easy, then i suggest to you that you download the "Frenzy AI"

At the moment Dale is currently working on an update of Diplomod (v.??) which lets you establish embassies through diplomacy. COOL;)

Most of the ppl in here should have heard of them but theres no way you can say that tha AI is EASY.

If you guys learn SLIC then...well its all down to yourselfs to create almost anything for CTP2.

where do you get the downloads/add ons for CTP2?

They are all over the place...
Apolyton mods-section has pure BUT the server is currently down
:(

But if you dont want to wait ask around at
the Apolyton Forums (http://apolyton.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=118&daysprune=)

And the amazing DALE who has created lots of mods for CTP2,
can be found below:

Dale's Withdraw.slc (makes sure the AI withdraws their units when asked) (http://www.mydocsonline.com/pub/hexagonia/withdraw13.zip)

Dale's Capture City.slc (I like this one!) (http://www.mydocsonline.com/pub/hexagonia/capture11.zip)

Dale's Airunit Lander (fixes the bug where the AI doesn't land their aircraft...now they do) (http://www.mydocsonline.com/pub/hexagonia/airunit11.zip)

Or you can simply visit hexagonia (http://geocities.com/hexagonia) for the rest.

Cheers HEX & DALE ;)

Thanx to all concerned for the reasoned defenses of CTP 2.

But can ANYone tell me, pray, is there ANY word, or even rumor, about a Mac version of CTP 2? If so, pu-LEASE let me know.

Originally posted by raindancer
where do you get the downloads/add ons for CTP2?

So here is my collection of CTP2 links:

Apolyton now down but we hope that Apolyton will available in the next days:
http://apolyton.net/ctp2

WesW' homepage where you find MedPack2 and ModSwapper, but I guess as it is hosted by Apolyton also down:
http://www.apolyton.net/wes/

Here are some maps but I can't really tell you anything about it:http://dominous.hypermart.net/maps/maps.html
http://home.t-online.de/home/heikowagner/page/ctpkart.htm

Hexagonain's page where you can Cradle and links to other fan created mods. There can be find ModSwapper, too, as an alternative link:
http://www.geocities.com/hexagonia/

Ben's page where you can find some stuff for modmakers, the One City Challenge and the Mars2020 scenario, but I noticed that this page wasn't available in the past few days. Maybe Ben you need a new homepage:
http://members.aol.com/wvrs4/ctp2/ctp2dl.htm

Here you can find the Seven Years War Scenario mad by Fritze:
http://dteetz.bei.t-online.de

Here is unit database for use in CTP1 and CTP2:
http://www.estetiksoft.de/ctpfiles/ctpunits.html

Here is Locutus' homepage there you can find some information about slic:
http://home.student.utwente.nl/w.snijders/

Here is the homepage of Martin the Dane, there you can the zfs-viever to get the graphics and sounds stored in *.zfs files. Tileedit can be find there, too. This utily allows you to modify, replace and add terrain, river and tile improvement graphics:
http://mbv.dk/uk/civ_ctp.html

And finally here is my homepage the home of CityMod2 and GoodMod and some other slic files:
http://guehmann.bei.t-online.de/englishd.htm

-Martin

Thanks for all the great links. I have never played CTP2 with ANY mod but i still think it is a great game (after i sat down and really learnt the game and all the great stuff in it) I first got internet connection a half year ago, but i an sure i will try to download some of the mod and if they are as good as you guys say i cant wait to play the game again....

CTP2 has SOOO much potentional but because its not sid maier who made it a lot of people dismiss it.. thats just crap... Activision dont even plan to make another sequal.. snøft :( :(

Thanks for all the great links. I have never played CTP2 with ANY mod but i still think it is a great game (after i sat down and really learnt the game and all the great stuff in it) I first got internet connection a half year ago, but i am sure i will try to download some of the mod and if they are as good as you guys say i cant wait to play the game again....

CTP2 has SOOO much potentional but because its not sid maier who made it a lot of people dismiss it.. thats just crap... Activision dont even plan to make another sequal.. snøft :( :(

Yeah, I hated it because I was pumped as all hell, liked many of the CTP1 changes, bought it, spent 10 hours playing it and then realized something very strange: not a single city had changed hands in the game except for those I had taken. Not one. And then I thought about it and I realized, not a single city of mine had even been attacked for the duration of the game.

And you know what? That's so goddamn disappointing that I will be damned if I have to mod the game to improve it.

Civ3 has taken care of the gap nicely.

Bought CTP few years ago expecting it to be CIV3. What a bummer. The interface drove me mad. My units were going everywhere except where I wanted them. Entering a city, took me ages to figure that one out. No automated skipping from one unit to the next when your done with the first one. It was RSI nightmare.

Then I bougt CTP2 because Civ3 release was postponed again and it was on sale for 25 dutch guilders (about 11/12 US$). I expected that they would have improved the interface since it couldnt be worse. Installed it, played it, same interface, trashed it. Maybe CTP has some improvements over the civ games but the interface makes it unbearable for me.

ProPain,
Like Pagh80 said near the top of this page: take the time to LEARN the game before you trash it. I personally think CtP1 has by far the best user interface of all Civ games and there are only few other (non-Civ) games that can top it. It's very different from Civ2 but it's still very logical, intuitive and easy to use, once you've taken the time to get accustomed to it. Perhaps you should even consider actually reading the manual! :D You obviously didn't even give CtP2 a decent chance or you would have noticed that the interface is actually quite different from the one in CtP1 (which is mostly a step back, although it does have it's advantages as well).

And the biggest mistake of all: don't expect CtP to be Civ3, it's a different game! (Then again, the same can be said for Civ3 itself :))

Originally posted by Locutus
ProPain,
Like Pagh80 said near the top of this page: take the time to LEARN the game before you trash it.

I didn't trash the game, just the interface. But I think gameplay in CtP wasn't that good either and I played that a lot since it had multiplayer options.

I personally think CtP1 has by far the best user interface of all Civ games and there are only few other (non-Civ) games that can top it. It's very different from Civ2 but it's still very logical, intuitive and easy to use, once you've taken the time to get accustomed to it.

It's very logical, intuitive and easy to use ONCE you've taken the time to get accustomed to it. Now that's a contradiction in my book. The Hungarian language is probably very logical, intuitive and easy to use once you've learned it for a few years. :D


Perhaps you should even consider actually reading the manual! :D You obviously didn't even give CtP2 a decent chance or you would have noticed that the interface is actually quite different from the one in CtP1 (which is mostly a step back, although it does have it's advantages as well).

And the biggest mistake of all: don't expect CtP to be Civ3, it's a different game! (Then again, the same can be said for Civ3 itself :))

I think I did give it a chance o/w I wouldn't have bought it. I didn't expect it to be Civ3, I learned that from CtP1. I bought it because I was looking for a new turnbased strat game since I was getting bored with civ2.

So if other people like it that's fine with me but the title of the thread was 'Why does everyone hate CtP2??' and this is why I'm disappointed in the game.

Originally posted by ProPain

I didn't trash the game, just the interface. But I think gameplay in CtP wasn't that good either and I played that a lot since it had multiplayer options.
Point taken. But as far as gameplay (and AI) are concerned, try downloading some mods (I recommend Cradle and/or MedMod), you'll be pleasantly surprised (and to call that an understatement would quite probably be an understatement itself :))


It's very logical, intuitive and easy to use ONCE you've taken the time to get accustomed to it. Now that's a contradiction in my book. The Hungarian language is probably very logical, intuitive and easy to use once you've learned it for a few years. :D


Well, it's not a contradiction in my book. Since you're Dutch, you're probably not familiar with American Football. If you would look at a game of American Football for the first time, it would probably look like utter chaos to you, you won't be able to make any sense of it. However, if you continue to watch for a bit longer, maybe a game or two (in CtP terms, play for a while), and listen carefully to the commentary (read the manual), you'll soon realize it's really one of the simplest sports in the world to understand with very logical rules (while still having way more strategical depth than regular football, btw). I don't know about Hungarian, but - contrary to what one might expect when one first looks at it - Am. Football doesn't take long to learn to understand/enjoy at all. So it really depends on how complex the subject we're talking about is, and CtP's interface really isn't all that complex...

I think I did give it a chance o/w I wouldn't have bought it. I didn't expect it to be Civ3, I learned that from CtP1. I bought it because I was looking for a new turnbased strat game since I was getting bored with civ2.

So if other people like it that's fine with me but the title of the thread was 'Why does everyone hate CtP2??' and this is why I'm disappointed in the game.

Well, I'm sure you invested some time in it, but if you say the interface is the same as in CtP1, you haven't played it an awful lot...

Of course, if you really don't like the game I fully respect that, but all too many people don't like it because they want instant satisfaction. Although really good games should indeed offer this, the CtP series requires you to invest some more time - but the satifsaction is IMHO all the greater in the long run (I was tired of Civ2 after 2-3 years or so, I've been playing/modding CtP since day 1 and am still thoroughly enjoying it). I'd hate to see anyone waste 50 Euro or so, so I'm just trying to convince you to not put it aside too quickly (if you have indeed done so)...

I like CTP, i have CTP1 and its cool, but my computer sucks and its slow playing CTP so i don't play it :(
I'm getting a new PC when i go off to college sooooo :)

:eek: What kind of PC do you have? I have a P200 and it runs very smoothly, I've run it on a P133 (which is the minimum requirement IIRC) without too much problems too... Or are you very low on memory? AFAIK that's the only thing that might slow CtP down...

I'm just another voice who says CtP1 and 2 are enjoyable games. They just need to be given a chance. I love the MP aspects of both games and have fun playing against other humans.

To add that Avalon Hill didnot own the right to the Civilization trademark than Englandish company own that Trade Mark
than guess who bought that company Micropose. Then the biggest legal battle in computering history start. The poor judge was unable to reach any deciveion as both claim where so cloudly. Then Sid
step into the mess and have his lawyer tell the judge that his company want the trademark for civilization. The judge said you want Sid you can have it.
This reminder me of than Estate case in
New York that went on for year between two powerfull jewist famility. The poor judge that so trie of the contant fighting over very little thing. Than black 12 year old kid one day walk into the court roon than handle the branfit than piece of paper than the branfit read the paper an handl it to the judge who read the paper
an told the branfit to get the kid than lawyer for 15 minutes from than other
court room. The paper was than will writen by son which die in than car cask with his mother and father he want to leave his sign baseball bat to the black kid . These is than old law in New York State that say you donot need to have than Lawyer to have than will or than formal legal will if certain contion are met. When the other lawyer enter the case for 15 minutes the judge decide that the black kid have the legal right to bat than gave it to him. If sent than message to the other two familty that his case better be settle soon. The entire NY state court sytem was trie of this case. The two other lawyer trie than emergry appeal than their appeal
was deny.

I find it remarkable that more than a year after I originally posted this topic, people are still arguing over it. Having purchased Civ 3 since, I must say I like the diplomacy/resources idea a lot, but CTP2 is not a bad game.

Originally posted by Herandar Lucian
I find it remarkable that more than a year after I originally posted this topic, people are still arguing over it. Having purchased Civ 3 since, I must say I like the diplomacy/resources idea a lot, but CTP2 is not a bad game.

Agreed............I think I still prefer PW to pushing workers around. Both games (Civ3 & the CtP series) are equally enjoyable in my book.

I like how in CTP2 you can auto target your nukes.

CTP (1&2) is just a classic case of great ideas ruined by a user-unfriendly interface. CTP2 and even CTP1 has many more options than Civ3 and the diplomacy is topnotch in CTP2 (imagine a combo of Alpha Centauri and CTP2 diplomacy ;) ), but that damn interface. I tried it over and over again, but it is simply BAD!

Firaxis should take all those great ideas into Civ4, because compared to CTP, Civ3 looks a bit simple

Originally posted by t0mme
CTP (1&2) is just a classic case of great ideas ruined by a user-unfriendly interface. CTP2 and even CTP1 has many more options than Civ3 and the diplomacy is topnotch in CTP2 (imagine a combo of Alpha Centauri and CTP2 diplomacy ;) ), but that damn interface. I tried it over and over again, but it is simply BAD!

Firaxis should take all those great ideas into Civ4, because compared to CTP, Civ3 looks a bit simple
Dont quite agree. I dont think the game was/is user unfriendly, but it take some time to get used to the new kind of control and most people dont want to spend the time to learn it. Actually i found it much smarter than any civ game. EX: The fact that you can make multiple build queues for many cities with only one click is very good. Also like that you can save the queues.
I can manage over 100 cities without spending alot of time, cause of the fact that you can make a certain build queue and then select the cities that want to use that queue. In civ 3 you have to select every city one after another, even if the same build queue should be used in every city.

The interface take some time to learn, but it is actually quite brilliant, and very easy to have an overview even if you have more than 100 cities

BTW: orion 3 also has some briliant ideas that could be used in(hopefully) Civ 4.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tomdy2k
[B]it's simple the AI is pathetic..how can you lose?

I have to disagree with this assessment, the AI is pathetic in all games (if you can call it AI). Civ3 got around this by just penalizing the player more at higher levels, it still makes the same mistakes and does not adjust its play in either game.

I would like to see Civ4 incorporate many of the ideas that CtP used [ie. more non-military units(especially the eco-terrorist ), revolutions creating new civs]

I think CTP1&2 have some really good ideas that should definetly be added into the next Civ4 games. I personally liked CTP1 better then CivIII, except I wouldn't play it now cuz the graphics are ugly.

Think about it, when you play CTP1, you *have the options* of waging terrorist attacks, biological attacks, establishing corparet franchises, bombardment from orbit, building space/Sea colonies, hacking, and ENSLAVING(lol! I love that one) city's and defeated warriors!

And then I play CivIII and I can't do ANY of that..... and now I see people argue CTP1&2 sucks?!!! It horrible angers everytime I get to the modern age in CivIII and I can't progress to the more exciting frontiers of space/technocratic governments/cybernetic and genetic research. Personally in CTP I hate progressing from the stone age to modern age, I admit that, but once your in the space age, you have access to a lot of very cleaver and cool features. I had lots of awsome games when I was battling for space (espacialy lanching attacks from space to ground was amazing), I just wish more of you anti-CTP pple would of experience what I have.


Anyway, lol, now CivIII is defiently a good game, but the CTP series is a lot more releasitic (excluding Diplomacy / bugs) and I'll always have more respect to CTP then CIVIII. And if Civ4 doesn't have the "Space Elevator" wonder and the earths-orbit field, I will continue to stand strong and argue CTP is better then the CIV series!!

lol, enjoy pple

:king:

Bart2k4,

You said it. I've gotten so tired of the BS in CivIII that I actually reinstalled CTP2, which I had stopped playing because the games would last for ever.

While I love the level of detail in the CTP2 game, I keep thinking that the idea game would be a proper blending of the two. Take the basic game design from CTP2 and incorporate the best of the interfaces and unit design from CivIII and SMAC.

I hope that CivIV designers will take a long hard look at what made CTP and CTP2 so popular. And if the CTP game engine could handle things like trade routes, why couldn't Civ IV have trade routes and supply lines ? It's not like we have a lack of CPU resources for running the game.

Otherwise, Civ IV will likely be just another pretty version of RISK.


D.

If people hate it so much, then someone send me their copy - I can't find it anywhere!

Theres plenty of copies on ebay and amazon and other online stores.

We in the cold North (Sweden) Happy playing CtPII !

Or at least me and me 2 friends, we play it every friday and Sutardy, 19:00-24:00 (sometime after 24:00 if Erik haset gone to sleep...)

And we have played it for years now :)

BUT...

For some totaly wierd sake it always quits around Industrial times +/ 200 years, on one of our PC:s its good enought for new games as FarCry but for some reason It goes down then we playing CtPII and Alpha Centurion.. !?!?

WHY ????

sob...

Hi ElfQueen, good to see there are other CtP2 multiplayers ;) There can be various reasons for a late game crash, the most common are listed in this thread at Apolyton

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2520444#post2520444

If you are interested in a multiplayer game you can also post in the CtP2 section at Apolyton.

We in the cold North (Sweden) Happy playing CtPII !

Or at least me and me 2 friends


What are you playing? Hotseat? Multiplayer? I thought those were too buggy to be any fun.

edit: Hi, Maq. I wonder when the last time was that two people posted simultaneosly on this forum.

You know better than that Peter :hammer: unless im confusing you with another "PeteT" :D

edit: ah i see im not confusing you with someone else :lol: yes very unlikely!

Multiplayer on a 933Mhz and a 950Mhz and a 1.8 Ghz :)
And some times CtPII dont even starts up on the 933 ??

Well, if you're interested in playing against other people do as Maq said. (But watch out for Toni! He's pretty good I believe ;) .)

Last October Activision released the source code for CTP2 and some of us are working on it. Unfortunately the multiplayer side of it will probably take a very long time.

There are 2 reasons I don't like it. I bought it expecting it to be Civ 3 and it wasn't, so I was let down.

Also I don't like the fantasy section of it. I like the historically bound Civ 2 & 3. Ecotopia? Not for me, leave that to the add ons, not the game itself.

There are 2 reasons I don't like it. I bought it expecting it to be Civ 3 and it wasn't, so I was let down.
My question is why would you drop good money on a game that you expected to be exactly like civ3. If you want a game to play exactly like civ3, play civ3...

It's a different game that approaches empire management concepts in a different way. Play it on that level with an open mnd instead of complaining ''That's not the way it's done in civ3''

i`m in a hurry so i cant read all of the pages but one thing i liked about ctp was space and underwater

Oh, wow! There're some very interesting thoughts here!

I think by far my favorite is CivII but last time I tried to play it I just couldn't handle the graphics. My next favorite is CTP, and there are a few reasons for this: I enjoy not having to order workmen all over the place to get something done--saves me a lot of time and trouble--when I remember to turn on Public Works. ;) I get a kick out of the graphics, and I enjoy the whole trade-route thing. Then of course there are the war walkers. I rarely ever went to war with anyone until I could build those then I'd just stomp all over everyone. I don't care much for the space thing so usually stop playing before that gets too involved. I do, however, like the sea colonies. Those are a hoot.

I also enjoy AlphaCentauri/AlienCrossfire, but I get really tired of all the pink (yuck!). I was just playing a game today that was getting real dull in a hurry, though. I hadn't played a lot with Crossfire so decided to mix up a few of the factions and see what happens. The end result was that I've played for eons now without so much as one attack on a city. Like I said, getting a little dull there--need some irritated factions to shake things up a bit.

As much as I wanted to really, really like CivIII I think it just stinks. When I start a new game it takes me at least one day because I keep having to re-start and re-start in order to get a luxury bonus or two. I've gone through the whole horse-age period without so much as one horse near one of my cities. It aggravates the snot out of me when I get to the later ages and have to take over enemy cities with inferior troops just so I can get rubber in order to build things. The rate of corruption (yes, this is even with the patch) is so horrific it's practically impossible to play a good game of it. Oh, and I forgot to mention about how difficult it is to actually make good scientific progress! I played the Americans until 20 years from the finish and I wasn't anywhere near 'done' with that game. I picked up the Conquests expansion thinking it would give the game a little more but outside of the new races I don't think it offers a lot to the game.

I tried to like Civ III. I played again and again and each time I got totally pissed off at the cartoony characters and the awefull diplomacy.

So then I started to look for alternatives. I didn't want to go back to Civ 2 as I have played it to death. So I went out and bought CTP 2, I applied the apolyton patch and it is wicked.

I love being able to "attack" other countries with spies, lawyers and and market branch. Setting up franchises in another country is a cool idea. Great stuff. I love the public works. And stacking armies to attack is just great, no more one on one.

The learning curve is a little more advanced than Civ but it is well worth it.

Better than Civ 3. I just hope that Civ 4 is going to be great, but I am a bit worried already look at some of the development shots. More cartoons and cute graphics, yuck!!! Pirates! was ruined because of the disney look.

czar20, glad you like it. I hope you follow the code work at apolyton...

I can handle the cartoony characters in CivIII although I think they're a bit overdone.

I was thinking of another thing I really liked about CTP (and this is why I said I like the graphics) is because one thing about Civ II and Civ III is that as you build your cities you ultimately end up developing every tile with roads, etc. After a while your whole civilization just looks trashy because of all the improvements.

czar20, you made me remember how much I loved being able to lock my units! In the early stages of a game it's near impossible to send out a military unit with every settler and basically it's not needed. But later there's no way I'm sending out a settler without protection. Being able to lock that stack makes everything so much easier!

Of course I did get a chuckle once when I was playing on an easy level and one of my neighboring countries sent a stack of units to snag one of my cities--and they actually took it! In CivII or CivIII no army has ever been able to take one of my cities on the easier levels.

The graphics in CTP were handled in such a way (and the fact you don't have to put roads on every tile) that to me they look tons and tons better. Even a half-desert city with mines all over the place doesn't look as bad as a city in Civ III with the roads and railroads running everywhere.

Since I can't get CTP to work on my computer (I think it hates my video driver) I went ahead and ordered CTP II. The idea of not having the space stuff intrigues me and maybe it'll work on my PC--hopefully it'll work because it was a huge splurge for me to spend the $10 or $11 it cost for the game. I'm hoping it will be in the mail today and am making a note to myself to check out that Apolyton patch.

I always liked CTP2 and although it was buggy and not supported by activision it clearly had a lot of thought put into its design. The grouping of units, the idea of combined arms, the fact that slic could be used to mod everything, and the fact that information was so easy to find and orders to be issued proves that the team did think things through. With Civ3 if it takes five clicks to do something then likely it would take 2 clicks in CTP2. That is simply a more efficiently designed system.

I have both CTP and CTP2 and used to love those games!

I haven't played in a while but recently I've started playing CTP again. This game still rocks. I like all the features mentioned above as well. I used to be pretty good at the game but only at prince. I've started playing now as king and so far the challenge is great! I'll get back into it again soon though. Then it's on to CTP2!! :D

I hope everyone has been following the Apolyton Edition project. A lot of work on released source code has improved the AI and fixed a lotof bugs, and we're ading new stuff too!

I was looking for something to play whilst waiting for Civ4 and dug out my old CTP.
I am enjoying it. Much better than first time around.
Possibly because I can use the interface much better.
I have noticed the Ages of Man Mod.

http://www.theagesofman.net/screenshots.htm

You can get it on CD for $5 and CTP2 for $5 including postage.
Only just ordered mine, but those who have used it, rave about it.

I have not played Call to Power, but methinks the Civ III graphics are not...cartoony, to say the least. They are not an accurate portayal of the units they represent, true, but how accurate were the Civ II models? Don't make me laugh. I've played Civ II over and over, and overall, I'd take Civ III, hands down.

Why are you even mentioning civ2? Congratulations, civ3 released 5 YEARS after civ2 has better graphics, but only because theyre larger, and so greater detail.

civ2 and civ3 graphics are 8 bit (256 colours), CtP1 and CtP2 graphics are 16bit (65,000 colours), either way you crumble it civ3 graphics are inferior to a game (CtP1) released 3 years before it.

but I did make a civ3 graphics mod for CtP2 for the few of us that liked the civ3 graphics but prefer the game play of CtP2 :)

Well you converted them to 16 bit for CtP2, so at least you have the option to add other 16 bit elements to them, rather being stuck with 8 bit. ;) Plus they are improved by being slightly smaller.

And in addition you can add a transparency mask, so that the edges are smooth and the units don't look like stickers on a paperwall map.

-Martin

I tried so hard to like Civ 3 but it never worked out. In my mind CTP2 will always be a better designed and better thought out game even if the execution left some things to be desired.

Great! Check out the latest in Apolyton's CtP2 section.

i also have call to power 2 and had NEVER EVER bugs with it, but i stopped playing because i didnt had time anymore and i didnt find any scenarios... is there a mod for ctp2?
could you send me the link then?
thanks

You can find all the mods for CtP2 at Apolyton, http://apolyton.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=118 thats the CtP2 creation forum.

Great! Check out the latest in Apolyton's CtP2 section.

Something (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44141) tells me Oerdin already knows about CtP2 at Apolyton. ;)

Yeah, I've ben posting over at poly for 4-5 years while I mostly just lurk her.

:eek:

whoops! hadnt seen Oerdin around...

:thumbsup:

Not played it, but I heard CTP used combat screens, not sure about number 2. I prefer the traditional simplified map combat of civ and alpha centuri.

So... you prefer the simplified (and less realistic, eg. no combined arms) combat of civ and AC, but you havent even played CtP1/2. Then how do you know you prefer it. ;)

CtP1/2 uses a "battleview", you cant *do* anything else except view the battle on that screen (except retreat button in CtP2), just like you view only (silly) 1v1 battles on the main map in civ and AC.

i also have call to power 2 and had NEVER EVER bugs with it, but i stopped playing because i didnt had time anymore and i didnt find any scenarios... is there a mod for ctp2?
could you send me the link then?
thanks

More of a expansion pack?

http://www.theagesofman.net/index.html

Check out Apolyon for some mods, like Cradle and CtC..

www.apolyton.net

Well 1st I do consider myself a Civ master since the only one I haven't played was CIV on DOS so I think I can consider myself one and I think CTPII is better. 1: armies bring a combined force. In Civ3 and two its a man-on-man, if I wanted to do that I would use one unit. 2: maintenance cost should be with the indiviual city not the total maintenance cost as in Civ3 or 2. 3: its more realistic for diplomats to go to a country not just place an embassy there.
I think all CIV's have there good and bad points its kind a matter of taste. As far as what Dell19 said, that's in all the CIV's until you get a little mastery of each one(not to say you haven't mastered it by any means) but you know that. As far as G-Man, that's just a plain virus. Probably a C++ or equivlent since the programming language used by CivII, SLIP, and C++ are close in nature. As far as ayruabeb is concerned, just goto Google and type: "Call To Power" + MAC and you will find the MAC version. I found this out just recently when I tried to find a downloadable version of CTPII. No luck. I have the game, (had it for years), made a burnt copy(just in case) and the just in case came up. Well I can use the burnt copy to install but it does not recongnize the CD. Can anyone tell me it the source code will help with this and if it does how do I insert it ?

So you don't like the game because of the grammar and vocabulary of the diplomats...

Makes sense to me...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/confused.gif

I think hes saying he wants more direct answers from the AI than "i'll try" but you have to remember your talking to a computer.

since it has been a couple of years since anybody touched this thread...I'll go with the orginal poster's question.

It's like Kate Jackson.

well..no it's more like Cheryl Ladd.

Farrah went on to be a drunkutant faithful for the tabloids...Jacklyn smith went onto to be a meglomarketingchic for kmart both survived thier angel days in the public eye...except Cheryl Ladd, who if my teenage angsty memory serves me, wanted fame the most she was lost and forgotten save for some Lifetime movies and possibly a stint at a Branson bordello.

Other than Colonization Ctp2 may have been my favorite TB game, --this might be because I put to much faith in the Sid Label and was always slightly let down like a kid on christmas opening a pink bunny suit present,

It's about people sometimes like A when B was just as good...or preferring Coke over Pepsi. Enough hard feelings were creating in the high-end marketing (these are the hardcore gamers who used to make up the reviewers for the gaming community, rather than the corperate shills we mostly have today) that where Sid treated them like happy tin gods, gave them interviews, the Ctp2 staff apparently said "FU, it's in the game"...which you can't do to old school hardcore gamers cuz like fat girls, they never forget you said it..and never forgive it completely.

now I'm going to go put my teeth back in, watch some matlock and cry quietly in the corner cuz the world is scary now. :)

CTP is the MOO3 of the Civ world.

CTP is the MOO3 of the Civ world.

well..yeah, but mine had more metaphores :)

Ah, but CTP2 still lives with the source code project. feel free to visit at apolyton. The link in sig should get you around there.

Have a nice day!

Hi, I liked CtP2 very much to relax with as my life otherwise is a bit busy, so I don't really play much online and I don't use mods. The only problem I have is that the box says you can't play on XP (and I bet also not on Vista) and my old computer is down and it's too much bother fixing it.
So I really hate it that I can't play it anymore and I have to stick to Rise of Nations or Civ4: which are also quite nice games anyway.

it plays on my xp computer just fine

thanks Ekmek,
I'll give it another try sometime :)