View Full Version : TSG12 After Action Report


leif erikson
May 16, 2011, 12:49 PM
Hi everyone and welcome to the TSG12 After Action Report thread. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state victory date and score (preferably in the post title), as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory!

Please use the Civ5 game submission page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/c5-gotm.php) to submit your final, first play through, .Civ5Save file, saved AFTER the victory ceremony if you were not conquered (using the "Lemme play one more turn" feature.).

Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game. Some players like to replay the game, and although we will not record the results from a replay, you can still post your new experiences (please state if the game is a replay). The game will not be closed as such, but after two weeks, the results will be compiled, and will not necessarily be updated with reports coming in after the closing date.

Good Luck and have fun! :c5influence:

Monthar
May 17, 2011, 06:29 PM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-17
Reference number: 24208
Your name: Monthar
Your email:
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1924AD
Turns played: 344
Base score: 1169
Final score: 1719
Time played: 5:58:00
Submitted save: TSG12_Diplo Win T344 HOF 1719.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Monthar_C501201.Civ5Save

I settled on the sugar. I think, I probably should have settled in place. I made a few other mistakes, like not choosing the best tech path to get my cash and research up fast enough. Specifically I delayed Currency and Astronomy too long to grab a couple of other techs I didn't really need for luxuries.

I also didn't REX soon enough. Instead I waited until I completed both the NC and NT.

On the positive side, I did build the Great Lighthouse and used the free GP to grab a GE to 1 turn the Colossus. These got me a GM fairly early on, which was a big help getting my 2nd or 3rd CS.

1st War
China declared on my on the turn I upgraded my first trireme to a SoL. Luckily I had a few swords, pikes and archers to hold off the wave for a few turns to finish the research for the longbows.

China built the GW so I knew I'd have trouble taking their cities. However, they captured Tyre, so I had to rough it to liberate them. Shortly after liberating Tyre, she was ready to give me peace, some gold, gpt and luxuries. I took the deal and built some more longbows and SoLs.


2nd War
Gandhi and Khan both asked me to go to war with China. I told them to give me 10 turns. This gave me enough time to finish the current longbow builds and finish the research for rifles to upgrade my longswords.

This time, they would pay for the first war. I pushed through and took all but one of their cities. The one I left them was built on the tiny peninsula to the SE of my capital, near the gems that I already had in my borders. So she had just the sea tiles for that city to work.

After these two wars, I just worked on getting rest of the CSs under my belt....err wing. Then pushed on to Globalization with just one detour to grab infantry, just in case someone else wanted to DoW. The rest of the game was uneventful.

Now I think I'll play it again to see if I can improve on my strategy to be better prepared for the next Diplo GotM.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I didn't sign any RAs this game. Of course most games I don't.

CapnBarcode
May 18, 2011, 01:13 AM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-18
Reference number: 24210
Your name: CapnBarcode
Your email:
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1938AD
Turns played: 358
Base score: 921
Final score: 1297
Time played: 4:09:00
Submitted save: TSG12_DiploWin_0358 AD-1938.Civ5Save
Renamed file: CapnBarcode_C501201.Civ5Save

Took me a little longer than it took Monthar, and my score wasn't as good, but I got there. I settled in place, didn't get involved in any wars, and didn't really get serious about grabbing CSs until the late 19th century due to lack of cash. Everybody was my pal until quite late, when Japan started getting hostile in response to my CS grab. But there was enough fighting over on the other continent to keep everyone busy.

Unexpectedly, I was second in science (behind China) for a long time, then pulled into first place in the Industrial age and kept about 4 or 5 techs ahead of the average for the rest of the game. I'm still getting a feel for how the game plays at Emperor, and am usually way back, so I must've done something better this time around.

leif erikson
May 18, 2011, 07:13 AM
Welcome to CivFanatics and GoTM. :salute:

Edited your post to remove your email address. :)

Congrats on your win. :thumbsup:

nthexwn
May 18, 2011, 08:55 AM
Very hard game.

Got mauled by barbarians during the first 100 turns, so my war against China was significantly delayed. By the time I got around to attacking, Wu Zetian was so dug in that it took 6 ships of the line just to beat down Beijing's hit point regeneration.

Was also so broke when the war began that it started disbanding my troops on me before I could use them... I didn't even know the game did that! :(

Things finally started coming together once the money started flowing in from luxury sales.

It also helps that I didn't spend anything on RA's this time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/nthexwn/Unsorted/TSG12Victory.jpg

I felt so bad about the way I played that I attempted the game again. The second time I went through about 5 or 6 RAs and heavily abused my previous map knowledge to get myself a win on turn 256 instead.

I've been playing this game waaaay too damn much lately. I've got work and school to attend to today, and it's now 7:00AM. (I didn't sleep) I've uninstalled Civ5 for now, heh.

Osner
May 18, 2011, 04:33 PM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-18
Reference number: 24216
Your name: Osner
Your email: Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1910AD
Turns played: 330
Base score: 978
Final score: 1481
Time played: 5:30:00
Submitted save: Elizabeth_0330 AD-1910.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Osner_C501201.Civ5Save

First Civ5 gotm to submit.

Interesting and enjoyable game. Settled on suger. Lots of barb activity in the beginning and felt I must have had a very slow and bad start. On top of that made the mistake to settle third city (after building Stonehenge and National College) on small island directly above Great Barrier reef, should have settled at marble up North. Cleared barbs with trireme which went very well. When finally met all other players I was in par in score, so they all must have experienced a slow start.

Another mistake was not to settle south of capital to form a choke point to China. The entire game it felt like China was on the edge of declaring war, but never did. Never went to war during the game.

Did enter into lots of RA's. Saved the two science specialist to leap to Globalization to build UN. During the vote countdown I had a golden age, which helped to obtain funds for a couple of last minute CS. At one before the vote I sold stuff I wouldn't sell normally to get the final CS.

Attaturk
May 18, 2011, 04:34 PM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-18
Reference number: 24217
Your name: Attaturk
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1580AD
Turns played: 226
Base score: 1038
Final score: 2306
Time played: 2:04:00
Submitted save: Elizabeth_0226 AD-1580won.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Attaturk_C501201.Civ5Save
-------------------------------------------------

Settled on sugar. Did not build any other cities due to iron being available at the nearby CS.

Science. Pottery - Writing.... Edu Iron Compass. Bulb Astro Bulb Nav

Monument, Granary, Scout, Library, NC, Great Library, boat boat boat boat.
Executed 4 frigates / 1 longsword rampage.

Culture: Liberty, Worker, Meritocracy (Engineer, built PT). Then Patronage, then Rationalism upto Scientific Revolution.

Captured most of the China cities, 3 Egyptian cities and Delphi.

No RA. All of the money was going to CS.

..._[8]-)
May 18, 2011, 05:29 PM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-18
Reference number: 24218
Your name: ..._[8]-)
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1828AD
Turns played: 284
Base score: 1221
Final score: 2180
Time played: 5:21:00
Submitted save: Elizabeth_0284 AD-1828.Civ5Save
Renamed file: _8__C501201.Civ5Save

Very enjoyable game for me. I liked being almost alone on that huge Island and to get a rather slow start without huts. I expanded to some of the good sites. However I later found that this was probably a bad idea, because I got my policies way too late.
Lived for a long time in peace with China and we were ahead in tech when we met the others.
Cannons ready I conquered China, Suleiman and most of Mongolia. Gengis Kahn ended up handing over 6000 gold to get peace, so I bought all the remaining CS except one I never found.

numaru7
May 19, 2011, 12:53 AM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-19
Reference number: 24220
Your name: numaru7
Your email:
Game status: Diplomacy Loss
Game date: 1937AD
Turns played: 358
Base score: 984
Final score: 984
Time played: 2:36:00
Submitted save: TSG12_Turn 358_Loss.Civ5Save
Renamed file: numaru7_C501201.Civ5Save

Diplo loss....
Settled on the sugar.
Barbarians made my life hell in this one because i wanted to go peace all the time and like someone in the thread said i wanted to try it without selling luxuries or making RA's. I think i had one warrior and 1 pike until i had researched ship of the lines. Anyway, the gold was sparse too, so i only had ~6000 by the end, when i wanted to buy out some city states, but even 1000 didn't get me to allies with 4 of them. Not to mention i only had about 12-13 left.
Also, in my game, weirdly enough india won, although 5 turns before the end Egypt had 10 votes.

Gonna play another one, even if it'll be a little easier because i know the map, but i'm not gonna make 7 cities again...was too much, and normally i make the Stonehenge for Culture by always having that policy that gives you a free great person. In this game i opted out of it and i had a rough time because of this. And i think i'll wipe out china too.

Tabarnak
May 19, 2011, 04:28 AM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-19
Reference number: 24221
Your name: Tabarnak
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1625AD
Turns played: 235
Base score: 637
Final score: 1355
Time played: 2:48:00
Submitted save: Elizabeth_0235 AD-1625.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Tabarnak_C501201.Civ5Save

----------------------------------------------------------

No RA, no lump sum of gold, only gpt from luxuries/strategic ressources.

Built 4 cities then National College in capital. Built workshops, markets and granaries in all cities. I had to produce gold fast. I resisted an attack from China and upgraded 2 swords immediatly. Every cities had workshops at that point so i made myself an army in few turns.

But they declared peace and i accepted but not without getting a good amount of gold and gpt. I immediatly declared war 10 turns later but they got CKNs during peace. I wasnt storng enough with only swords and i didnt discovered Steel yet. I made peace. Then we stayed guarded until the end of game. So i played the whole game with 4 cities.

Lot of AIs where broke in my game. At some point only Egypt was making money. I forgot to stop Oxford production and i had to get Archeology. I struggled with happiness a bit and couldnt raise capital to 23-24 pop. I took 2 extra turns to finish the UN. I probably lost 7-8 turns from these mistakes.

I went Tradition-Patronnage-Commerce. Here is some checkpoints.

Situation turn 115. A bit critical, i have a weak army and no iron. But i had gold.
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa413/Tabarnak2/Screenshot-19_05_20111_56_27AM.jpg

But 1 turn later, tks to borders bought to China, trying to explore a bit more
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa413/Tabarnak2/Screenshot-19_05_20111_59_29AM.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa413/Tabarnak2/Screenshot-19_05_20111_56_58AM.jpg

Situation turn 141, just before going with swords(but no big deal they had CKNs i couldnt see)
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa413/Tabarnak2/Screenshot-19_05_20112_27_24AM.jpg

Situation turn 215
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa413/Tabarnak2/Screenshot-19_05_20114_08_47AM.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa413/Tabarnak2/Screenshot-19_05_20114_09_02AM.jpg



It was a fun game. Probably would have been faster with scientific revolution(like Attatruk did, great game btw :)) and 1 extra scientist.

Monthar
May 19, 2011, 04:58 AM
My 2nd and 3rd attempts went horribly wrong, so I abandoned them and took those lessons into the 4th run.

On my 4th play through I went with just 2 cities. London on top of the sugar again and York near the gems south of Tyre to choke off China's access to the north.

I wiped out China. Then, late in the game agreed to help Egypt attack Mongolia mainly because the Mongols were capturing my CS allies. During this war everyone else DoW'd me right after I took the policy to make their standing with the CSs drop faster. After liberating 2 of the CS's one, from Mongolia and another from India, I accepted peace with Mongolia. On the last turn I took Osaka from India so I could liberate it and resurrect Japan.

This play through I won the UN vote on turn 295. So I shaved 49 turns off my original.
My policies were All of Liberty, Left side of Patronage, Left side of Freedom and all of Order, so my cities had some very nice production going with the +1, +3 and +5 from policies alone on top of the multipliers from buildings. I think if I had gone with rationalism instead of Order, I probably would have finished a lot sooner.

I've learned a lot from reading other folk's write-ups and trying some different tactics on several attempts until I got the 2nd win much earlier than my original try.

Edit: On the 3rd attempt I took a GM from the liberty policy and settled it on one of the river tiles. I was settling other GMs as well. This did get my income up fairly quickly, but China and the barbarians were a major problem since I didn't have enough decent military units to deal with them.

dribnairb
May 20, 2011, 03:23 PM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-20
Reference number: 24234
Your name: dribnairb
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1934AD
Turns played: 354
Base score: 1132
Final score: 1617
Time played: 4:48:00
Submitted save: Elizabeth_0354 AD-1934.Civ5Save
Renamed file: dribnairb_C501201.Civ5Save

No idea if that's a good score or not! I did have a problem on the very last turn, my computer decided to freeze up on me and when it restarted it ended my turn before I could buy a few more City States, so I had to reload it.

Decided not to use RA for this one, as some people have suggested. I also only went for GPT or luxuries as trades for luxuries/resources.

subber
May 20, 2011, 07:13 PM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-20
Reference number: 24236
Your name: subber
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1949AD
Turns played: 369
Base score: 855
Final score: 1171
Time played: 3:27:00
Submitted save: Elisabeth_0369 - 1949 n. Chr..Civ5Save
Renamed file: subber_C501201.Civ5Save

tough this time. settled on sugar but wouldnt do it a second time. had 2 cities for long time, then expanded to 4. tried to beeline crossbows, wouldnt do that a second time either. fought china with 4 of the crossbows but they got theirs which shoot twice per round after I took only 1 city. due to mountains range was not perfect. had to settle for peace several times but finally took most cities. got into happiness issues and had to fight pillaging units.

long time money problems, never got allies until around 1500. Egypt was taking over the other continent almost completely and was in future when I was in industrial. but they didnt attack. it seemed like they would go for all types of victory options. Egypt finished UN 10 turns before me, sitting on 20k gold, buying my allies off of me one by one.

If I hadnt sold all my chinese cities one turn before the elections which allowed me to buy all remaining allies on the map (10) to Ramses I would have lost. Doesnt feel like winning however Ramses also just bought the city states... wondering how he can manage a 135.000.000 population with no happiness issues.

ferven
May 21, 2011, 06:18 AM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-21
Reference number: 24239
Your name: ferven
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1795AD
Turns played: 269
Base score: 695
Final score: 1311
Time played: 2:34:00
Renamed file: ferven_C501201.Civ5Save

I tried with 6 cities to see if this makes any sense. This was a good opportunity with all that land in the back. Three cities were founded after the liberty tree (except republic) and scholasticism were complete. My last city was founded rather late but with the marble, iron, cows, etc., Oxford was built there in 10 turns. I didn't sign any RA since this was my idea at the beginning. Only defensive wars against China and Japan.

Had I built 3 cities and then just keep pressing "end of turn" would give me Scientific Revolution and an early victory (The extra cities gave me a lot of gold but with RAs banned it was completely useless). I will be using RAs in the future.

thio
May 22, 2011, 07:36 AM
<-Game played and won turn 355 without RAs and gold/canceling deal->

Egypt was INSANE. Nearly triple my points still in the end, they were at >4times in between. Everyone else was fairly even, at least until said Egyptians erased half of the civs.

So.. i decided to "cheat" .. got myself a big stack of money, teched to global, built UN, and allied everything i could two turns before the votes, declaring war on egypt right after.

Usually i don't do such cheese, but what else is there when your opponent has 500 gpt and an army that just finished steamrolling his continent :/

Won't upload this though, i reloaded twice. I wanted to try and go for China after they declared war on me, i had a few longbows and 2 melee units, thought that would be fine against a 15 defense city.

Might have been if the city hadn't a trebuchet in it and built 3 defensive wonders. Didn't have enough space to position the longbows either. Singapore was in the way. Reloaded to deal with singapore instead.. bad idea.. reloaded again and made peace.

ssjos
May 22, 2011, 05:20 PM
Won on turn 208 (using RA).

Got late astronomy (t117) so that kinda made things harder. Also wasted like 400 gold on an early trimate ship hoping to find the AI:s but I didnt.

Else things went pretty well. Settled many cities and sold luxuries.

Was going to double pop GS and engi in the end to get the tech needed, however I forgot and failed to pop the GS. Had to wait like 12 turns for a new one so that really sucked.

Anyway, kinda bad mistake at end but otherwise i guess game went good.


Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-22
Reference number: 24254
Your name: ssjos
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1480AD
Turns played: 208
Base score: 383
Final score: 934

slugster
May 23, 2011, 05:58 AM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-20
Your name: slugster
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1590AD
Turns played: 228
Base score: 656
Final score: 1457
Time played: 11:04:00

I just couldn't resist the chance for a different game, so I settled E of Mt.Fuji to quickly grap some policies. The idea was to get Landed Elite (+15%, +2 food) and REX abit and then rip the rewards. But it didnt work out too well. Both because I didnt REX that fast and because the many early policies made the later ones that much more expensive. But it was nice and different approach, so at least I had fun!

I also managed to have a totally peaceful game (on my part). Mostly because it was very late until the chinese and I discovered each other. And then I had handful Ship-o-Line and that kept me military on par with the chinese (I think). I planned to attack the chinese, but I was so late on that plan that I gave up on it and just made an RA with them. In total I think i had something like 6-7 RAs with other AIs during the game.

After submitting this game I restarted the map, to see if I could improve on the REX part combined with early policies from Mt.Fuji. And to see how I would do in a non-RA game (as I'm a bit tired of the whole RA tech-blocking metagame). I quickly settled 4 additional cities and got some early universities up, but it ended before I could really rip the rewards of chain-producing GS. I still managed a 225 turn victory, but I had hoped for something better.

Aaronius
May 23, 2011, 02:59 PM
Date submitted: Not
Your name: Aaronius
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Turns played: 350

I restarted a couple times early when one of my warriors would get killed by barbs. I think I restarted twice before turn 80. After that, I was straight up.

I built six cities mainly b/c of the prime resourses and strategic city spots around the start. It worked out well but I got very few social policies. Stayed peaceful all game, lots of RAs but only Allied Singapore and Stockholm for significant parts of the game.

Japan was the biggest threat and was so rich it boggled the mind. No civ managed to run away tho so I was able to hang in there. The only way I won was to buy all of Japan's allies on the last turn, then declare war. Its ironic that the one horrible violent backstabbing move of the whole game resulted in a diplo victory. It is the only way I could have won.

I have absolutely no idea how others are winning a diplo game at turn 220. So much research to do.

ssjos
May 23, 2011, 03:30 PM
Date submitted: Not
Your name: Aaronius
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Turns played: 350

I restarted a couple times early when one of my warriors would get killed by barbs. I think I restarted twice before turn 80. After that, I was straight up.

I built six cities mainly b/c of the prime resourses and strategic city spots around the start. It worked out well but I got very few social policies. Stayed peaceful all game, lots of RAs but only Allied Singapore and Stockholm for significant parts of the game.

Japan was the biggest threat and was so rich it boggled the mind. No civ managed to run away tho so I was able to hang in there. The only way I won was to buy all of Japan's allies on the last turn, then declare war. Its ironic that the one horrible violent backstabbing move of the whole game resulted in a diplo victory. It is the only way I could have won.

I have absolutely no idea how others are winning a diplo game at turn 220. So much research to do.

direct tech for liberary and national college. Fast astronomy to locate the AI. Sell luxeries for gold to afford as many RAs as possible. Use smart RA blocking etc. and some manual teching as well.

Pop RAs down to Steam power + biology. Then you have 3 Great scientists, Oxford university and Rationality social tree "Technological revolution?" for a total of 6 free techs. These will take you through electricity to globalization.

Be ready with 1-2 great engineers to speedbuild the UN.

Aaronius
May 23, 2011, 06:21 PM
direct tech for liberary and national college. Fast astronomy to locate the AI. Sell luxeries for gold to afford as many RAs as possible. Use smart RA blocking etc. and some manual teching as well.

Pop RAs down to Steam power + biology. Then you have 3 Great scientists, Oxford university and Rationality social tree "Technological revolution?" for a total of 6 free techs. These will take you through electricity to globalization.

Be ready with 1-2 great engineers to speedbuild the UN.

My mind just exploded.

Seriously tho, thanks for the very nice info.

ssjos
May 24, 2011, 05:31 AM
My mind just exploded.

Seriously tho, thanks for the very nice info.

np mate :)

Farrapo
May 24, 2011, 07:50 AM
Moved warrior west and saw additional resources, so settled on coast next to Fuji. Wanted to see when "default" city setting would allocate to Fuji (ans.: pop 5). Location had pros and cons, but pros were enhanced when horse location was revealed, and much later coal. No gold for starting spot, but all river tiles could be developed. No water mill possible as not on river, but wine allowed monastery. Decided to attempt a single city game. When I completed IW and saw I had to iron, was worried but helped Bucharest clear barbs, allied with him, and never had an iron problem.

Initially focused on culture and a series of Tradition and Liberty SPs, plus aggressive city growth. Pushed through Phil. and used the GE selected from Meritocracy to build Great Library, from which I took Civil Service as tech. That boosted food along the river. Third SP pick was Citizenship (worker) and with one city that was enough (captured one later, used for a while, then deleted).

Built second warrior early and eventually three triremes, allied first with Tyre and let him give other units (one warrior, two archers then I stopped spawning). The upgraded versions of these were ending army: 3 SOLs, 3 Longswords, 2 Longbows, plus 1 GG. The two warriors using flanking bonuses were adequate to deal with barbs. Did not want to waste an SP on Honor.

Somewhere around turn 160-170 saw I needed more resources to trade to buy allies so attacked China. With the above upgraded army took the four cities without loss, though was slowed by Great Wall. China had several useful Wonders, especially Hagia Sophia.

In this game I paid more attention to manipulating my city focus and especially GP generation. By the end I had saved up three GS (a fourth was used to advance to Navigation after Astronomy so I explored with SOLs and never built a Caravel), built Oxford U. late for another tech plus the two free techs from Rationalism tree.

Here are all the initial picks for Research, London builds, and SPs:



Research: Pottery, Writing, Calendar, Animal Husbandry, Sailing, Optics, Trapping, Philosophy, Archery, Mining, (free Civil Service), BW, IW ...

London: Monument, Warrior, Granary, Library, National College, Trireme, (free Great Library), Trireme, Trireme, Great Lighthouse, National Epic, Porcelain Tower, Market ...

SPs: Tradition, Liberty, Citizenship (Lib), Aristocracy (Trad), Meritocracy (Lib), Patronage, Philanthropy (Pat), Scholasticism (Pat), Cultural Diplomacy (Pat), Rationalism ...



Other than starting location this sounds similar to what others did who achieved much quicker wins. I think my main "mistake" was I did not see that I needed to complete one of the lower research branches (starting with banking) so I spent time developing higher branches when I could have used the lower branch stuff and I would not have had to delay making the key SP pick for two techs, etc.

India was the powerhouse in my game and toward the end kept trying to take away my allies. I ended up with 11 votes but had to defend them with 500G donations at least six times. So gold was essential.

Did not sign any RAs, but did trade resources for lump sum gold. Could not see how to generate enough gold otherwise.

If I have time I am going to try this again building several cities and see how that goes.

xerex
May 25, 2011, 12:17 PM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-25
Reference number: 24272
Your name: xerex
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1912AD
Turns played: 332
Base score: 938
Final score: 1421
Time played: 3:53:00


I went with four cities. I built some military because I was fearing a Chinese invasion. Instead I went to war myself as I figured that losing a few units would lighten the support cost, and succeeding in puppeting would bring some cash. She lost two cities plus the capital to me, a fourth city to a CS, and a fifth she offered for peace, along with goodies.
India had two huge cities and four policies filled up. I gave Gandhi one of the Chinese cities: that should raise his policy cost. Also bribed neighboring nations into going to war against India. Myself I stayed clear.
My own policies were Liberty -> Patronage -> Commerce. Spent roughly the 30 last turns in GA's. One natural, some GP burned and Rationalism.
I kept Oxford for Globalization and a GE at hand.

Thanks for the game!

xerex
May 25, 2011, 12:19 PM
India was the powerhouse in my game and toward the end kept trying to take away my allies. I ended up with 11 votes but had to defend them with 500G donations at least six times. So gold was essential.

Just declare war against India. This way your allies cannot be outbid (at least by India).

RedRover57
May 25, 2011, 03:59 PM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-25
Reference number: 24273
Your name: RedRover57
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1740AD
Turns played: 258
Base score: 1012
Final score: 1984
Time played: 14:08:00

I settled in place and then settled 3 more cites after Landed Elite (I did not take Liberty policies at all). I built the NC after 3 cities. I just beat China to the south city site (choke point) which really helped when she DOWed me soon after. I held her off with 1 archer and 2 triremes (plus my CS allies helped) and eventually conquered her civ (except for one city) after I got my SoL's. Her capitol had 6 wonders. After my war with China the rest of the game was peaceful and I was allied with every CS on the map at the end.

I didn't sign a single RA and didn't build any world wonders (I missed out on Porcelain Tower to India by 2 turns).

I made several mistakes that resulted in extra turns, the biggest being that I forgot to shut off GS production in a peripheral city and a worthless (at that time ) GS pop caused a delay in obtaining a GE in my capitol, which forced me to hard build most of the UN. I'm sure I could have shaved off 20-30 turns with tighter play.

Fun game but I much prefer a domination game with England - it's just too much fun to wipe everyone out with a superior navy.

Also it appears that I am a very slow player (14 hours!) compared to most everyone else. I don't how how you play these games in 2 hours! I guess I micromanage too much.

Edit: Ah I forgot that I kept the game running for about 6 hours yesterday when I was AFK, so not quite so bad.

Harbinger
May 25, 2011, 05:45 PM
Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-25
Reference number: 24274
Your name: Harbinger
Your email: harbinger471@hotmail.com
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1912AD
Turns played: 332
Base score: 871
Final score: 1319
Time played: 3:41:00
Submitted save: Elizabeth_0332 AD-1912.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Harbinger_C501201.Civ5Save

Expanded very aggressively to pick up the additional luxury resources and figured I'd just keep going as city sites continued to present themselves. Allied with Tyre early on. Was attacked by China and caught with my pants down as my military was just a few units mostly intended to keep the barbarians at bay. Managed to hold them off long enough to build up my military (although poor Tyre was conquered in the process), make a truce, and then later counter attack with a vengeance. At that point I thought I'd be well behind because of the "wasted" resources building a large military that early in a diplo game, and happiness was an issue throughout the game, but it turned out well since over the course of my campaigns against technologically-superior China I liberated Tyre and acquired some decent puppet cities, and found out that if you capture a city you can't hold for happiness reasons that you can sell it back during peace negotiations at a steep price. The tribute from China paid for a shiny new caravel and the allegiance of some new cultural city-states I discovered with it. Their culture led to more patronage policies, and my gold and science totals late-game were quite good due to my "oversized" empire.

Farrapo
May 26, 2011, 11:43 AM
xerex ... good suggestion on declaring war on India in that situation. Never occurred to me - duh.

xiziz
May 26, 2011, 02:06 PM
Fun game this one too, though I did get quite frustrated at some errors I made. Somehow still managed to beat my earlier diplo record of 287 turns, but got 1500p less in score. I liked playing without RA's, I gave up on playing without lump sums halfway through the game though.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-26
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1816AD
Turns played: 278
Base score: 534
Final score: 970
Time played: 6:17:00

Gameplay:
Founded London on the Sugar, I'm glad I did, worked out well. York was founded to the west, on turn 72 beside the wine. Nottingham got founded around turn 100 up north by the Iron. Was planning on a fourth between Nottingham and London, but decided against it. Messed up with my SP's and build order in the beginning. so I got of to a very slow start due to wanting to try something new and not thinking it through thoroughly before starting. Reckon I lost about 40 turns there, and got Navigation unprepared. Had good Science all game, but lagged after in economy all the game, only managed to scour enough cash in the endgame by hitting gold production in two of my three cities and using GG to keep a golden age running. Declared war three times, one time in the mid game, against India hoping to steal a wonder rich capital, my ship of the lines never managed to break down and I settled for some gold for peace. A few turns later I turned on china, who quickly conquered one of my allies, and I had to fight off a huge amount of troops, Egypt was running for a diplomatic win too; so I started a war against them too to try and slow them down, though it was mostly my CS allies on the other continent doing the fighting. Both those wars were still going when I managed to grab the victory. Two more turns and I'd have liberated a CS from China too. Got my SoLs out way to late to be of real use, had to keep them running for healing, got four of them up to level three promotions, with 10-15xp left for Logistics.
I reached Scientific revolution turn 241 just as I reached Biology(lucky I did not plant a fourth city), together with four GS I bulbed my way to Ecology with Oxford finishing 5 turns later got Globalisation. Nottingham had just finished building a factory, only missing a solar plant, took 23 turns to finish UN, giving me enough time to get the last few allies I needed.
So, my inital SP, BO and Sci:
SP: Liberty(26)-Citizenship(46)-Meritocracy(78)-Patrionage(90, oracle)-Philantrophy(105)
BO: Worker-Granery-Archer-NC(58)-Monument.
Sci: Pottery-Writing-Archery-Mining-Sailing

Demographics:
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3917/2011052600001a.jpg

Arilian
May 26, 2011, 02:48 PM
I rage quited in turn 15 after barbarian eat my libery+fuji settler so my score is out of race, for the second try: 1810.

I went for landed elite too, it was a good builder game, I only had one defensive war.
Noone is really dangerous, Egypt had bigger score but obsolate tech.

Save GS all the way but did not have any GE so i had to hard build UN in 16 turns.
Won with 18 votes noone really bidded on me.

RedRover57
May 26, 2011, 03:56 PM
A few additional post-game comments:

1. Landed Elite vs. Meritocracy - Both have their pros and cons. I preferred Landed Elite on this map because of the semi-isolated start plus several food-poor (no river, few good water tiles) city sites. The most important strategy seemed to be to take Patronage as the 4th SP regardless of whether taking Tradition or Liberty policies first. This is a bit easier with Meritocracy since you can use the GS to bulb Civil Service earlier. With an LE start I mis-timed and had to take Monarchy as 4th and Patronage as 5th. I could have avoided this by settling my last city site a bit sooner in order to increase my SP cost. The delay to getting to Scholasticism cost me quite a few turns in the long run.

2. I see that quite a few people said they built land units. I have found that with England and a mostly coastal map that this is not necessary. Instead build 4 triremes early and send them out to explore and hunt barbs for the first 2 promotions (take the land bombardment promotions). The triremes can also help guard your cities early allowing you to only have enough land units (usually a couple of archers and/or warriors/swords) to guard from barbs. After navigation the 4 triremes can be upgraded to Ship of the Line and your next promotion will be +1 range. Four SoL with +3 range can conquer the world, with one longsword or horseman tagging along to cap the cities. I could have easily had a sub-200 turn domination victory had I just kept going after conquering China. It's like shooting ducks in a barrel. Other than my 4 SoL I only built a couple of early caravels (for exploration), one archer (which I never bothered to upgrade to a Longbow) and I kept one horseman gift from Tyre (I gifted back all of the other units). My original warrior was eventually upgraded to a longsword but I didn't need him as I took all of China's cities with my SoLs plus horseman. All of my GG were popped for Golden Ages as they weren't needed for combat.

3. Puppets are insane when you take the Rationalism policies and trade post everywhere. Between that and Scholasticism my beakers/turn was very good. Plus the puppets provide a ton of cash - I could easily buy up all of the CS on the map. I probably could have shaved off more turns by grabbing even more puppets (particularly Egypt and India's capitols with all of their wonders). But instead I opted to keep them friendly as trade partners.

4. I didn't realize how much happiness I would get from the bottom policy in Patronage or I would have taken that sooner. When I eventually took it I had so many CS allies that my happiness jumped from 4 to 33. It would have helped in the mid-late game (after conquering China) when I had some unhappiness issues.

Neuro
May 26, 2011, 06:10 PM
Civ5 GOTM 12
Date submitted: 2011-05-26
Your name: Neuro
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1540AD
Turns played: 218
Base score: 661
Final score: 1537
Time played: 5:56:00


A few notes before the long-winded write-up: I was a bit disappointed by the no Ancient Ruins setup. Not that they were turned off, but that the players weren't told about it. That isn't an option you can randomly select when setting up your game, so that information should be given to the players before the game starts. Setup options like that change the way you play the game; I doubt I would have built a scout had I known beforehand.


On to the report!

I settled on the hex 1SE to be next to the mountain. I didn't like moving away from the coast, but in a diplo game I would be happy for the Observatory later on, and I could just build my second city on the coast. I sent my warrior south (too many hills/mountains to the east, I'd send the scout that way), and he found the southern choke point fairly early with a barb camp parked on it. However, the barb camp was down -7, so I knew it must have ran into someone's scout, so I cleared it out with my warrior. Sure enough, there's China's scout at half health. I managed to keep the scout from going past me my moving back and forth a few times, and the scout finally went off west. After healing up, my warrior found Singapore and went west following the scout, and found another barb camp on the coast at half health, and China's scout was nowhere to be found. Cleared out the camp, then sent my warrior back to the choke point (I couldn't go south because China was blocking the way). I parked my warrior there and figured I could at least prevent china from expanding.

While this was going on, my scout went east and ran into barbs everywhere, so he turned around and went west instead. After exploring that peninsula, he found yet another barb camp and got knocked to almost dead. By this time, I realized there weren't any Ancient Ruins, so my scout was nearly useless. Instead I used him to relieve my warrior from Choke Point duty, and sent the warrior back north. I saw Tyre had a worker by now, so I zipped in and stole it then immediately made peace (cheesy, I know). I bought a second warrior and together with the first, they cleared the barbs nearby.
Research was Pottery-Writing-Mining-Masonry-Calender. While waiting for masonry to finish, my worker had time to plant farms all along the river. In the end, waiting so long for my luxuries turned out to be fine, as China didn't have any money till I finished my plantation anyway. After scout and worker were finished, I started on a library, then NC, then Great Library.

I took Tradition, then Liberty, then the Free Settler policies first, and settled my second city to the west, on the hill that had a lake, cows, and coast all next to it, along with three eventual luxuries. I meant to built a third city to the east, but never got around to it.

Honestly, the game had a hard time holding my interest. I had bought a Trireme with the proceeds from the Sugar sale to China, and had high hopes of finding another civ or two to interact with, but nothing. A diplo game with no chance at diplomacy is rather strange. I think this map would have been much better suited to a Domination game. I made an RA with China as soon as she hit Classical, which ended up giving me Education on turn 85. The Great Library had given me Civil Service, so I built a Uni asap and filled up the specialist slots, intending to bulb Astro with my first GS.

All three city-states gave me barb-kill quests, two on the same camp. Clearing those gave me friendly with all three CSs, and Tyre gave me an Archer which replaced the scout on the Choke Point, and sent the scout as far west as I could (with the Trireme as protection) to wait for Astro. GS popped out in turn 110, so I immediately bulbed Astro and sent the scout out. He landed over there a few turns later and met India, Egypt, and the rest of the crew in short order.
I made a second RA with China two turns after the first finished, and it gave me Navigation on turn 118 (yes, I used tech blocking). In between the RAs, I had teched up to Metal Casting and Engineering, so I focused on Machinery and pulled my warriors and archer back from their posts to upgrade them. By this time, I wanted China to expand another city or two for me to puppet right there at the choke point. Why build when you can take?

I allied with Bucharest for his iron, upgraded my wars to swordmen and the archer to a longbow, upgraded the trireme to a Ship of the Line when Navigation popped from the second RA, then marched on China. Took the first city with 2 swordsman and a longbow (being newly built, it wasn't developed enough to stand up to longbow fire), then the Ship-of-the-Line arrived to help take out the next two cities. Lost one of my longswords taking Beijing, because I got impatient, but played it smart after that and just pounded the heck out of Beijing till it was almost dead and sent in the remaining Longsword.

After China fell, the game got a bit boring. I built up my two cities, built a harbor in York to connect with Beijing, and kept trading luxuries for cash with the civs on the other side, which was difficult because it was World War X over there. I think every civ was at war with at least one other civ for nearly the entirety of the game. As soon as someone made peace with one civ, they'd declare on another 3-4 turns later. No one ever stockpiled gold, they'd buy units with it constantly, except India, who would spend his cash on CSs every time he hit 250 gold. I ended up having to trade them gold for gpt just so they could afford to RA with me, which I was only able to do with India and Egypt.

I hard-teched everything past Navigation to Biology, popped Oxford on Steam Power and bulbed up to Plastics, bought a Research Lab, and techblocked the last few techs for my two RAs. Hit Globalization in turn 204, used my GE from Meritocracy to push the UN to a 5 turn build, then spent cash on City States till the end.
Hope you all enjoyed the write-up!

Tabarnak
May 26, 2011, 06:18 PM
Neuro, do you think this map is better suited for Tradition first? Do you pick Tradition first and go for LE right away in some games? How this interfere with RAs?

I have a feeling that Liberty is weaker here because of semi-isolated and few riversided land. Just a thought.

I was pretty sure that you would have finished under 200 turns, thanks to RAs. Nice write-up as always.

Neuro
May 26, 2011, 06:41 PM
I nearly always take Tradition as my first policy in any non-Domination game. The bonus to culture is nice, but it's the lowering of border expansion that really does it for me. Having my capital able to get those 2 and 3-ring quality tiles quickly is important for me, plus over a long game that +3 cpt adds up to another whole policy.

I took Liberty for the free settler, that's it. I had originally planned on taking Rationalism down to the +2 free techs, but after doing the math I realized I wasn't going to get my GE in time, so my last two policies were to get meritocracy about 3 turns before I got Globalization.

I would take LE more often if I didn't have to take the +culture building policy ahead of it. By the time I have four cities, I have unlocked Patronage, and I want to push down to Scholasticism.

As for this map in particular, there weren't any other good spots for cities on our continent. Where I placed York was about as good as you could get in my opinion, and it was still substandard. I'm a big believer in rivers, so the dearth of them in this game is probably what made me only build 2 cities.

leif erikson
May 26, 2011, 09:35 PM
I was a bit disappointed by the no Ancient Ruins setup. Not that they were turned off, but that the players weren't told about it.
I would have told you if I had turned them off? :confused:

The only option I have been selecting is "Allow Promotion Saving".
I wonder if my messing around in WorldBulder with all the loading and reloading changed something? One of the goals of this game was to create an isolated start, not an easy task. :rolleyes:

DaveMcW
May 26, 2011, 09:56 PM
I doubt I would have built a scout had I known beforehand.

I think scout is pretty much required on Fractal. You need to know what your landmass looks like to choose the correct strategy.

Neuro
May 26, 2011, 10:14 PM
I would have told you if I had turned them off? :confused:

The only option I have been selecting is "Allow Promotion Saving".
I wonder if my messing around in WorldBulder with all the loading and reloading changed something? One of the goals of this game was to create an isolated start, not an easy task. :rolleyes:

Ah, well then I apologize, but yes, something removed all the Ancient Ruins. I know for a fact that China never went north of the choke point for the first 50 turns of the game, and there wasn't a single Ancient Ruin in that entire area, nor on any of the isolated islands, thus I assumed they were turned off.

Neuro
May 26, 2011, 11:06 PM
I think scout is pretty much required on Fractal. You need to know what your landmass looks like to choose the correct strategy.

Sure, but I probably would have spent the extra few turns building a Warrior over a scout. Without Ancient Ruins to grab, exploration isn't as time-critical a step.

Post your write-up Dave, I wanna see how you did! =)

tommynt
May 27, 2011, 02:18 PM
hey guys,
I did set up my plan allready before turn1, get enough scientists and free techs to go all the way from electrcity to UN in 1 turn. Also I wanted no war at all to not risk a denounce chain.
That did mean: few cities to able able to get down to scientific revolution but enough to have enough lux to support RA - with 1 city it s really allways a big struggle to have enough gold - so plan was 3 or 4 cities.

realized pretty fast that I d be kinda allone so I got all the science buildngs up as fast as possible, teched only upper tree- to get scouts into watter asap (early on there are usually few barb ships) - found china right the turn I got philosophy and did RA right away - after more scouting I realized there is no1 else .... (found belgrad later then)
So I had the RA, GL and .... to get the 3 costy techs for astronomy I figured only thing saving me from a20 turn compass reasearch is a merocracy scientist - so bulbed astro with it.
got 5 scouts into water and settled 2 more cities which did build only buildngs to have cap be able to do the national wonders with the lux from cities 2 and 3 (east and west of cap) I could do some trades - unluckily only kill each others mission from CS ... RA the middle techs while teching the lower ones, stuggled bit with happyness as this city states close to China - my only aly - didnt work its lux forever.

Well last 50 turns were very straightforward - plan RA agreements, pop scientists (planed a double scientist/engi pop in cap) - after some time I realized I d even have to plan to get scientific revolution not too early not too late - but as lot of cult comes from cs anyway that wasnt too hard.

In like turn 150 (when last round of RAs were done) I did the maths for cult and the double pop.

Might have shaved few turns by doing the last needed RA a bit earlier (could have done loans) or buy fact, but didnt want to risk both to have enough gold in end to buy enough CS - was close vote - 10 for me ...

I m trully amazed how other do good finish times without RA or bulbing the last tech tree - techs get soo expensive .....

Onan
May 28, 2011, 07:45 AM
:blush:

Late here so I'll be brief. As stated elsewhere, I didn't really have much of a gameplan. I also stayed smallish (4 cities to do the national wonders). Settled on the sugar; 2nd and third cities at mountains east and west, all with observatories. 4th city up at marble/iron.

Now I know why I was so poor: I didn't do any trading, really, only lux swaps. So all my cash was coming from my own empire.

Gandhi was a total beast in my game: he had allied all the CS he hadn't killed. I'd saved GSs and used four of them and Oxford to jump to Globablization the turn I got electricity. Then rushed UN with a GE and a couple more turns build.

This was all laughable, though, as the best I could do was buy off one city state from India, and then I also managed to liberate one, though it was a very long siege at Helsinki, 12-15 turns or more, with four SoL holding down the city's healing, one cannon chipping away, and a few muskets, longswords and pikes getting nailed by artillery! India had infantry too but thankfully none of those came to this battle. I took the defense 63 city with a pike when it was down to 1 hp.

So...I built UN around t272, and managed to secure all of 4 votes. Gandhi won with 12 or 13. He'd been in the modern era since around when my siege to liberate Helsinki started, it was crazy. Delhi was strength 95.

Note to self: sell resources, sell resources, sell resources.

Fun anyway.

tommynt
May 28, 2011, 08:45 AM
Onan - I usually sell absolutly every res I got and get happy res for self from City states. Just make sure u buy ones which have worked their lux ..

Half Nelson
May 28, 2011, 10:40 AM
Just failed to dip under 300 turns. I decided to experiment with city expansion on this map, building 6 cities after pushing through the Liberty tree. I settled London on the coast next to Mt Fuji and milked the culture all game. York was S (to block China), Nottingham to W (furs and horses) and then the others progressively E. This made for an interesting game but is not optimal for a fast finish. I built SH, GL (for Civil Service) and NC before expanding. I used triremes / SoL to explore and found the other continent in reasonable time. I then used RA and GS to bulb along the tech tree to globalisation. Highlight was a Triple GP pop from London (GS, GE, GA). I used a GE and a prolonged golden age to help build UN and won the vote first time (with 16 votes). Mongolia and Japan were the dominant forces overseas, which meant there was little competition for CS except from China. After about 250 turns of friendship, I DOWed on China when they tried to buy out my only allied CS (Tyre) and rolled them over just before UN was completed. LB and ranged SoL (later rifles / destroyers) were too powerful for Chinese CKN and muskets. I took Patronage rather late but adopted the last of the top 3 Patronage policies just as globalisation was completed and bought up the CS over the last 20 turns or so. This soured relations with all except Mongol /Japan but was not a big issue due to my large army and very powerful navy.
My biggest enemy was the game itself, which crashed (blue-screen) a couple of times in the early game. I therefore had to replay from autosaves (3 turns in total IIRC):- I have submitted my game but will understand if it is not ranked on this basis. I did not submit for the last CiV GOTM because of persistent crashes which seemed to start after a Windows update a couple of weeks ago (few problems prior to that). It seems to have settled down now:- is anyone else having similar problems?
PS:- One more question. Are there any tricks for streamlining the savegame window (other than deleting from Windows Explorer)? I am losing track of current games due to the alphabetical listing.

Farrapo
May 28, 2011, 02:35 PM
On the subject of taking Landed Elite vs. Meritocracy SP, to go for Landed Elite first you have to takee Legalism (free culture building). When you choose that I believe you will not get a culture building in your capital unless some tech has been researched that would give you a culture building you do not already have. Since I always build a Monument first, that means I'd have to have get through Philosophy to get a Temple. If it were the case that you'd later get the Temple when you get through Phil. that would be okay, but my impression is it's a "get it then or lose it" situation for the capital when you pick Legalism (Is it that way for other cities? My impression is no). I suppose you could always forgo the benefit of the free culture building in the capital to get to L.E., but since I decided to play a single city game I did not want to blow an SP for nothing. It was possible to get through Phil. in time, of course, but playing the capital next to Fuji (which gets selected by Default city choice at turn 5) you need some finesse to swap from Default to Food for 3-4 turns to actually slow down the culture production enough to get through Phil. At least, that was my calculation, and I did not really want to do that. Playing single city I'd love to have had LE, but it looked like it would throw off my plan too much so I went the Meritocracy (C.S. selection) route. I did come back and take Aristocracy under Tradition, but felt I could not use two SPs to get to L.E. ... needed to get rolling in Patronage at that point.

Muaziz
May 28, 2011, 07:56 PM
It's been just under 4 years since my last post. Yikes. I played a fair amount of the Realms Beyond Civ4 games and really learned how to play from the likes of Compromise, T-hawk, Sullla, LKendter, uberfish, sooooo, and many more whose names I can't recall.

One thing I really enjoyed was reading the incredibly detailed reports that those folks would write up. I learned as much from reading as I did from playing. And while a lot of the reports here are very good, I still miss the detail and analysis from some of those old reports.

All that being said, I don't have time to write up a detailed report myself. Mostly, it's because I didn't take detailed notes while playing making it hard to re-create the game in writing.

Like Neuro, I moved my Settler 1 SE to be next to the Mountain. That meant I would lose the Fish, but being along a river and a Wheat, there was going to be plenty of food for a long time.

Also like Neuro, my Warrior headed SW and found the choke point with China with a wounded (-7) Barb camp on the hill.

So I decided to go Liberty for Collective Rule (Free Settler +50% speed when training Settlers). I wanted to grab the great Hill spot that would seal the choke. Having 2 Luxuries (Gems and Spices) within the first city ring seemed very good. As an added benefit, China's scout would become trapped between York and Tyre for a very, very long time.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee271/_Muaziz_/TSG12/TSG12York.jpg

I never signed Open Borders with China the entire game. I didn't want China to settle north of York in what I considered to be my continent. China would, of course, eventually declare war. The first time, I had a Longbow in York with a Caravel on one side, and a Ship of the Line on the other. I never took any of China's cities, but Wu had no chance of getting close to York. It was a long time before China would sign a Peace Treaty (that didn't require me to fork over an arm and a leg). China started a second war very late in the game. I didn't have much in terms of troops, but my Ship of the Line was still there and had gotten so much XP that it was +60% vs Land Units and had Logistics (+1 attack/turn). I upgraded my Caravel into a Destroyer which also had Logistics and proceeded to massacre all the Chinese forces before they could get far.

For the first time ever playing Civ5, I would expand 3 more times for a total of 5 cities. I've never built more than 3 or 4 in all my previous games so was curious as to how it would play out. Here are the other 3 cities (shown at the end of the game):
West of London's starting location:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee271/_Muaziz_/TSG12/TSG12Nottingham.jpg

NE of London:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee271/_Muaziz_/TSG12/TSG12Hastings.jpg

NE of Hastings (I never could grab that Aluminum, not that it mattered in the end):
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee271/_Muaziz_/TSG12/TSG12Canterbury.jpg

I wouldn't have built Canterbury if not for the Iron. Although with Marble there, I figured it would at least compensate for the increased unhappiness. I think most folks got their Iron from Bucharest, but I didn't even think about that. Not sure that I would have had the gold to make them Allies anyway.

As usual I built the Great Library to bulb Civil Service. I recall that in Civ4, you could sometimes bulb Astronomy, but I doubt that is possible in Civ5 on this difficulty level.

I didn't build NC until Hasting had a Library (which I purchased once I had some Luxuries connected and sold to China); I think this was turn 83 which is very late for me. Normally, I build NC before expanding, but in this game I didn't want to run the risk of China settling on the north side of the choke.

Regarding Social Policies (SPs), I filled out the Liberty tree which is probably a mistake. Republic (+1 hammer/city) is probably too weak, even with 5 cities. I thought that with Representation (cities increase Culture cost of SPs by 33% less; also starts a Golden Age) that I would get more SPs then I ended up with. After that, I went to Patronage, Philanthropy and Aesthetics since I knew I would have to buy the love of many City States to get a Diplo victory. My last two SPs were Commerce and Trade Unions because at that point, I didn't need any more research since I had two Great Scientists to bulb Ecology and Globalization once the pre-reqs were done.

In hindsight, I could probably have saved some time by skipping Republic and Representation and going down Rationalism to get Scientific Revolution (2 free techs).

I didn't sign any early RAs since all the civs wanted a 100g premium to sign one, and I just didn't have that much gold to be throwing it around like that. Perhaps that was a mistake. I probably signed about 5 RAs total all game with no tech blocking (which meant I did spend some time researching all the cheap techs to avoid getting them from an RA).

One thing I never do (except when going for a Cultural victory) is build any Culture buildings except a Monument. I don't know if that is a mistake so would love to hear what people's thoughts are on that.

Looking at some of the other reports in this thread, I have no idea how some people finished so fast. Winning on turn in the 220s seems unimaginable to me. While I feel like maybe I could have shaved 20-30 turns off Globalization, I can't imagine getting it 60 turns earlier. Even if I had teched faster, I don't think I would have had the gold to ally enough City States to win much earlier (even switching to gold Specialists towards the end). Due to poor planning, I didn't have a GE to expedite the UN, but it build in 15 turns which isn't too bad.

Other than China, I was never in a War which meant that I could focus on teching without having to waste much time and gold upkeep on a military. Once again, having such a great choke meant that China could never really be a threat. Having to cross two Hills with Longbow and boat support meant that any invasion was doomed to fail.

Looking back on my game, I felt like all 5 of my cities were solid cities. All had food resources, luxuries, and decent production. And yet, people seemed to get much faster times with fewer cities. I would have thought that if I could build them early enough (my 5th city was built around turn 120) and keep happiness in check (which I did), then having more cities, especially good cities, would more than make up for the extra cost of Social Policies. Maybe not building Temples was a bad idea. Not really sure. I haven't played enough games to have a good sense on what is an optimal number of cities for a given situation.

DaveMcW
May 28, 2011, 09:42 PM
I settled on the sugar and built 3 cities total, each grabbing 3 luxuries. I researched straight to Philosophy and signed a research agreement on turn 40.

Build order was Scout, Worker, Library, National College, Settler, Settler, Trireme, Granary, Trireme. My last settler needed to wait for trireme support to break through the barbarians, but I wanted to get it built before turn 71 so I could use Landed Elite + Civil Service for super capital growth.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7718/tsg1283.jpgI stole 2 workers from Tyre, farmed XP to get a logistics trireme, and finally conquered them for Singapore's quest.

I got Astronomy on turn 118, all self-research except for the Civil Service RA. By then I had 3 patronage policies and a huge luxury stash. I bought up maritime and cultural city-states as fast as I could contact them.

Once I found other buyers for my luxuries, I attacked China. Wu sued for peace after losing 1 city and most of her army.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5608/tsg12145.jpgI missed Hagai Sophia by two turns, which really messed up my timing for a Great Engineer. I decided to take Meritocracy instead of Scientific Revolution. I generated an extra great scientist and reduced my culture requirements, so it wasn't that much of a loss.

By the time I was ready to build the UN, my capital was size 19 and I was making 400:c5science: per turn. I only used 5 RAs total.

Endgame
RAs: Archaeology, Military Science, Biology, Steam Power
5 Scientists: Electricity, Refrigeration, Plastics, Penicillin, Ecology
Oxford University: Globalization
Great Engineer: United Nations

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4918/tsg12190.jpg

Muaziz
May 29, 2011, 03:32 AM
Turn 190 Diplo Victory

I got Astronomy on turn 118, all self-research except for the Civil Service RA...

I was awed by your quick victory so I decided to replay this GotM using the same 3 city layout to see where I can improve.

Our games played out very differently since I could not meet China early this time due to the Barb camp at the choke. So no early RA for me. Instead, since I knew the map, I went Worker first and never made a Scout (since I knew that there were no Ruins).

So instead of getting Civil Service (CS) through an early RA, I had to get it via Great Library. While that did cost me 20ish turns, I did save some time early on. I also built both Settlers (and NC like DaveMcW did) before the GLib and was actually surprised I was able to get it before anyone else.

Btw, did you RA-blocked to get CS or was it just luck? I know some people really don't like RA-blocking and I personally don't do it in normal games, but when you are trying for fastest times, I understand it.

I ended up getting Astronomy on turn 119 which is only 1 turn later than you. So at this point, I felt like I was mostly on pace (not knowing any better). I do feel like my early game is very solid and I am very good at min/maxing when needed.

I am curious how you managed to get both your expansion cities down with only a single Warrior as an offensive unit. Did you use your Scout to prevent Barb camps from spawning (I know this worked in Civ4 since a Barb camp could not spawn in LoS of any unit)? If not, I am not sure how you settled twice with almost no protection. I did manage to do it myself, but I had to reload several times (note: I only did this since this was a replay game and I wanted to see how well I could do under ideal conditions).

I actually became friends with Tyre when I destroyed a barb camp near where York was to be founded. It provided me with an Archer. Strangely, I never built a single (non-naval) military unit the entire game. I started with the one Warrior and got the one Archer which helped a lot to clear out the remaining Barb camps. I also had an early Trireme help settle the second city to the NE.

Unlike in my first game, I built a much earlier Gardens in London this time and made sure I would have at least one GE by the time the UN was ready to be built.

On turn 190, the turn that DaveMcW won, I was still 9 techs away from Globalization. I did have 3 GSs waiting to pop, and still had Oxford I could build. That still puts me a full *5* techs behind. I did have two RAs that gave me junk (one was bad luck and one was horrible timing), but that's not nearly enough to make up the difference. That means that between the time I got Astronomy and turn 190, I had somehow fallen about 50 turns behind which is astounding.

As soon as I got Astronomy I built 2 Caravels and set them off in opposite directions to meet the other civs as quickly as possible. This also allowed to get some more RAs going, sell Open Borders, and some luxuries.

I never got into a war the entire game. This means that I was able to keep my military upkeep to a bare minimum (note: China isn't so aggressive when you don't cock block her at the choke). So from that perspective, I wasted no gold or productivity on war mongering.

I ended up winning a Diplo victory on turn 249... a full 59 turns later than DaveMcW. I am sure I could have won a little sooner, but I was playing super fast to get a sense of this alternative game. Apparently, I badly need help with my mid-game. I have no idea how our paths could have diverged so much, but clearly I am missing some very important mid-game concepts.

Also when I won, almost 60 turns later than DaveMcW, I only had 365 bpt while he had 487!! All 3 of my cities had Universities and Public Schools. London was at +150% Science with 3 Scientist specialists. Obviously I did not war with China so had only my 3 cities, but I did not expect Puppet cities to contribute so much to science. What am I missing?

One thing that may have stemmed the tide is that I hard built my 2 Caravels rather than buying them. While I was able to sell Luxuries early on, eventually all the opposing civs saturated to the point when getting luxuries from City-States was no longer helpful since I had no one to buy them up. Maybe getting some trades in earlier would have helped.

Comparing this game to my original one (posted earlier), it makes me very angry. In this game, I built 2 fewer cities and generally played much faster (often not micro'ing cities like I should). But in the end, I beat my previous Diplo win by 37 turns.

That tells me that there is something terribly wrong in the game. If I am able to settle 2 extra cities early in the game and am following the Liberty tree which is supposed to favor "rapid expansion", then I should reach a point (if my city placement is good) when I overtake a small empire. Otherwise, what's the point of a larger empire? If you can never catch up, then it's not even an option. At the end of my first game, my 5 cities were all 16+ pop, and four of them had 44+ production (except Hastings at 33). These are not cities. These are cities that should be able to compete against smaller builds.

Most of you have a lot more Civ5 experience than me, so please feel free to chime in. Is a 4+ city build ever any good (not counting cities you take via military)?

I really feel like I am missing some fundamental concepts and reading the various reports has not helped me understand where I am going wrong.

DaveMcW
May 29, 2011, 04:34 AM
Our games played out very differently since I could not meet China early this time due to the Barb camp at the choke. So no early RA for me. Instead, since I knew the map, I went Worker first and never made a Scout (since I knew that there were no Ruins).
...

I am curious how you managed to get both your expansion cities down with only a single Warrior as an offensive unit. Did you use your Scout to prevent Barb camps from spawning (I know this worked in Civ4 since a Barb camp could not spawn in LoS of any unit)? If not, I am not sure how you settled twice with almost no protection. I did manage to do it myself, but I had to reload several times (note: I only did this since this was a replay game and I wanted to see how well I could do under ideal conditions).

I did it with only a warrior. The key is to play defense and slowly advance to your city site. That worked for the first city.

The second city was simply impossible, a barb camp blocked the way with 3 barbarians guarding it. I lost ~10 turns waiting for my trireme to bombard them to death.

Btw, did you RA-blocked to get CS or was it just luck? I know some people really don't like RA-blocking and I personally don't do it in normal games, but when you are trying for fastest times, I understand it.

Yes I RA blocked. The five techs I RA'ed were chosen because they are the easiest to block. I saved my scientists for the hard ones.

One thing that may have stemmed the tide is that I hard built my 2 Caravels rather than buying them. While I was able to sell Luxuries early on, eventually all the opposing civs saturated to the point when getting luxuries from City-States was no longer helpful since I had no one to buy them up. Maybe getting some trades in earlier would have helped.
Actually I used a faster way. I stationed 3 scouts at the furthest tips of shallow water, and they immediately crossed the ocean when Astronomy came in.

I never got into a war the entire game. This means that I was able to keep my military upkeep to a bare minimum (note: China isn't so aggressive when you don't cock block her at the choke). So from that perspective, I wasted no gold or productivity on war mongering.
Check my peace treaty screenshot for the gold/productivity benefits of war. :D

Also when I won, almost 60 turns later than DaveMcW, I only had 365 bpt while he had 487!! All 3 of my cities had Universities and Public Schools. London was at +150% Science with 3 Scientist specialists. Obviously I did not war with China so had only my 3 cities, but I did not expect Puppet cities to contribute so much to science. What am I missing?
...

Comparing this game to my original one (posted earlier), it makes me very angry. In this game, I built 2 fewer cities and generally played much faster (often not micro'ing cities like I should). But in the end, I beat my previous Diplo win by 37 turns.

That tells me that there is something terribly wrong in the game. If I am able to settle 2 extra cities early in the game and am following the Liberty tree which is supposed to favor "rapid expansion", then I should reach a point (if my city placement is good) when I overtake a small empire. Otherwise, what's the point of a larger empire? If you can never catch up, then it's not even an option. At the end of my first game, my 5 cities were all 16+ pop, and four of them had 44+ production (except Hastings at 33). These are not cities. These are cities that should be able to compete against smaller builds.

Social Policies are huge. I used Landed Elite (big capital) and Scholasticism (free beakers from city states). Keeping your city count low allows you to get the key policies much faster.

MinutiaRules
May 29, 2011, 11:11 AM
... I built 2 fewer cities and generally played much faster (often not micro'ing cities like I should). But in the end, I beat my previous Diplo win by 37 turns ...

The benefits of SPs are huge in comparison. This favors fewer cities because you can obtain SPs much sooner. Also fewer cities means more pop in the capital earlier without hitting lack of happiness limits. But the capital usually gets the multiplier buildings sooner than other cities so the extra capital pop is more productive for science. This wouldn't necessarily be the case if all your extra cities hooked up luxuries that you didn't already have. But I find it a rare circumstance that you region has more that two or three city spots like that. Of course as the game progesses you come into contact with more fertile regions. But at that point collecting puppets seems to be the most efficient. Puppets don't slow down the rate of SP earning.

Tabarnak
May 29, 2011, 12:14 PM
Land favors extra cities because of semi-isolated area and fairly good amount of luxuries around.

Monthar
May 29, 2011, 04:59 PM
I settled on the sugar and built 3 cities total, each grabbing 3 luxuries. I researched straight to Philosophy and signed a research agreement on turn 40.

Build order was Scout, Worker, Library, National College, Settler, Settler, Trireme, Granary, Trireme. My last settler needed to wait for trireme support to break through the barbarians, but I wanted to get it built before turn 71 so I could use Landed Elite + Civil Service for super capital growth.

Based on your write-up here, I still only managed to get my win down to turn 289. I could have cut probably 10-20 turns if I'd had a GE saved and if China hadn't DoW'd a couple turns before our last RA completed. It would have given me Steam Power.

Most of the other civs were always too broke to sign RAs and I didn't have the cash to sell/give to them to sign one.

Still, I shaved another 6 turns off my best replay so far.

Onan
May 29, 2011, 11:09 PM
That tells me that there is something terribly wrong in the game. If I am able to settle 2 extra cities early in the game and am following the Liberty tree which is supposed to favor "rapid expansion", then I should reach a point (if my city placement is good) when I overtake a small empire. Otherwise, what's the point of a larger empire? If you can never catch up, then it's not even an option. At the end of my first game, my 5 cities were all 16+ pop, and four of them had 44+ production (except Hastings at 33). These are not cities. These are cities that should be able to compete against smaller builds.


From someone who plays mostly multiplayer against other humans, I would say playing this type of game to these specific victory conditions favors this smaller sort of empire. Now, if your larger empire had been in a game with your smaller empire (both played by humans), it certainly would have been able to compete against the smaller build. It would have killed it, or taken it over and puppeted it.

Playing the AI is boring--and this is not just civ 5. Ever since I discovered MP, SP has always felt like playing with a cold dead thing. I think GOTM and gauntlet games are popular precisely because you move one (albeit removed) step towards playing against other humans.

AI = necrophilia. :eek:

Muaziz
May 29, 2011, 11:24 PM
Actually I used a faster way. I stationed 3 scouts at the furthest tips of shallow water, and they immediately crossed the ocean when Astronomy came in.
Hadn't thought of that, but that is a much better idea. I imagine that saved a ton of time and was a whole lot cheaper to boot. And since your boats can't be attacked by Barbs in open ocean, the risk is probably not too great.

Do you sign Open Borders with the AI civs rather than sell them your OB for 50g? Personally, I had only be scouting the outside of their territory, but that does mean that there were some City-States that I did not meet until very late or at all.

Check my peace treaty screenshot for the gold/productivity benefits of war. :D
I don't quite understand how the AI does peace treaties. Sometimes, the AI wants to give away the farm, and sometimes they are losing badly and demand that you give them all your luxuries. I'd be interesting to learn more about how the AI calculates this.

Social Policies are huge. I used Landed Elite (big capital) and Scholasticism (free beakers from city states). Keeping your city count low allows you to get the key policies much faster.
I agree, and I think that this is a fundamental failure in the current design. Having a few more cities (if placed near 2+ luxuries and with good food access) should always be better in the long run. The penalty for this should be that it takes a while to get set up and costs you quite a bit of early productivity. But there should come to a point where you get out ahead. Otherwise, what's the point? And the answer right now seems to be that more is always a lot worse no matter how good those extra couple of cities are.

I think my original game (5 cities) and my replay (3 cities) is a perfect example of why the current model is deeply flawed. It shouldn't take 250 turns for that initial investment to pay off.

Onan
May 30, 2011, 02:59 AM
The developers have talked about wanting a 'tall' empire to be able to compete with a 'wide' empire, and the latest patch makes this very possible in many ways. Again, certain styles are going to be better for certain victory conditions. I don't think it means a smaller empire will always win. It depends what you're trying to accomplish.

With Dave's game winning on turn 190 out of 500, it's clear that approach is suited to these conditions. Five cities might be better off in the long run in many ways...but when the game's over in the short run, it's an ill-suited approach to the challenge set. I don't think it means there's a huge fundamental flaw. Could be wrong, just my thoughts.

xiziz
May 30, 2011, 07:45 AM
I really enjoy reading all these game reports, especially the long and detailed ones like Muaziz above, I probably learn more from reading other peoples games than I do from playing my own. :)

tommynt
May 30, 2011, 08:22 AM
what's the point of a larger empire?

in SP there is usually not much point, problem is that SP is mostly tech orientated, u NEED several techs to be able to fullfil a desired winning condition (at least if u dont go for a domination win on Pangea). Teching is usually faster with fewer cities as lot of SP favour teching a lot. Also Happyness system favours few Cities with access to as many Lux as possible aswell. Or u just get the Lux from the still overpowered Citystates.

in MP there are lots of points for larger empires, mainly due to usually increased production (more accesible hills and so on) and also due to scorewin after some time.
Thats just one reason why multiplayer gameplay offers a lot more then playing singleplayer - a REAL opponent being the main other reason.

I don't think it means there's a huge fundamental flaw.

Singeplayer game is VERY flawed, coming mainly from all the whines about "overpowered" ICS, which was in fact totaly wrong - its not been nowhere close to as op as 1-3 city empires and RA now. So game was patched in a poor way, favouring "easy" gameplay very much (playtimes from 2-3 hours for a full game say a lot)

Even MP went into the "fewer is better" direction, maybe thats better then the citiy spam of early civ5 - but as said at least there is SOME reason to expand in mp.

Imo the -happy for cities should just be patched away, having increased SP costs and no multipliers in new cities are big enough con of new cities, there is no reason for unhappynes in an empire just because its growing, neither historical nor gameplaywise.

subber
May 30, 2011, 02:35 PM
I stole 2 workers from Tyre, farmed XP to get a logistics trireme, and finally conquered them for Singapore's quest.


I am not yet that into the ´slang´ language - what does "farmed XP" mean and why do you call the trireme a ´logistics trireme´?

thanks for letting me know and inspiring win!:goodjob:

Monthar
May 30, 2011, 02:53 PM
I am not yet that into the ´slang´ language - what does "farmed XP" mean and why do you call the trireme a ´logistics trireme´?

thanks for letting me know and inspiring win!:goodjob:

In other words he kept attacking the city with a trireme to promote it up to the logistics promotion which allows 2 attack per turn and to move after attacking.

XP = experience points

backnine31
May 30, 2011, 11:39 PM
Here we go again.... I won but it was a struggle.

I have to assume that noone else had Mongolia completely clear the other continent, including all but 2 of the CS's. I tried to play a peaceful game and succeeded up until about turn 300 at which point, there were only 7 CS's left. Five were owned by Genghis and I owned the other two. The rest Genghis had conquered.

So....in order to win a diplo victory, I had to go to war and liberate enough of those things to win the vote. I built the UN somewhere around turn 300 IIRC but, like I said, I only had two CS allies. Genghis had run roughshod over the other continent completely destroying India, Japan, and the Ottomans. Germany had one city (not it's capitol) and Egypt had maybe 5 or 6 cities left and he was losing them one by one.

The only way for me to win was to go to war so that's what I did. I built up my armies and took out China, leaving her one small city on the other side of Bucharest. While finishing up there I sent a second army west from the London area to take out Egypt and give me a foothold on Mongolia's continent. My northern forces took Thebes from Egypt and ran west along the northern coast eventually taking all but one Egyptian city (which was actually a German city Ramesses had taken earlier).

By the time I took out Egypt, my southern forces had dispatched with China and I sent them across from the south to Mongolia's continent. Genghis hadn't quite filled in all the land on my side of where Suleiman had been so I could land my forces there and position them without having to declare first. So that's what I did. There was also a small city there with 8 aluminum I wanted so I thought I could get in and take that city quick and then defend. It didn't work. I got the city and held it for one turn but then Genghis hit me with about 8 modern armor and I escaped with only one Rocket Artillery and my Khan I'd gotten from one of my CS allies great people gift. That was VERY nice btw....

On the bright side (and the reason I don't feel like it was a total waste, and may actually have been a key to victory), I managed to take that city on the turn Genghis decided to fill it with 5 Jet Fighters and 4 Atomic Bombs so I wiped out a very significant chunk of firepower even though I lost maybe 8 units of my own.

In the meantime, my northern army weathered two Atomic Bombs (which actually hurt his units more than mine) and, with the help of five destroyers shooting twice with range of 3, I hunkered down and picked off the bulk of his army as they tried to push me back into the sea. When I started the war against Mongolia, I had @ 160,000 army points and he had almost 700,000. Once I had whittled him down to about 300,000 I pushed my way south along the east coast and took Memphis and Delhi. I built a few more units and brought them across and with 9 destroyer shots, 2 bombers and a jet fighter on a carrier, I took Helsinki's defenses down to 1 and took it from the sea. I then did the same with Monaco.

In the meantime, I sent my northern army from Delhi to Geneva, Sidon, and then liberated Dublin from Genoa. Oh, I almost forgot, Mongolia owned Singapore on my continent ( I owned the other two) so I bought it the turn I declared so I had 3 CS's going into the war. With Helsinki, Monaco, Geneva, Sidon, and Dublin, plus the UN, I had my 10 votes. Unfortunately, Genghis took Monaco back from me for a turn and I just missed the vote so I had to wait 10 more turns to get the victory. While I waited, I bought a couple Giant Robot's and liberated Venice as well so I ended up with 11 votes.

What a crazy game. I really thought it was over when I built the UN and saw how huge Mongolia had gotten. It really does go to show how bad the AI is at warring though. He had nukes and five times the army I had, plus I had to take the battle to him, not sit and defend, and I still beat him going away.

Another really fun game though. I can't help thinking that I'm the guy these games are made for. Everyone else seems able to short circuit some of the tricks Leif sets up with these maps. I tend to fall right into all of his traps but I have a blast working my way out of them. It just takes me awhile. I don't use any of the tricks. The AI is bad enough without me taking advantage of the system. I don't have any problem with how anyone else does things. It's a game and however you get the most satisfaction out of playing it is exactly how you should play it. For me, I kind of enjoy giving them a little bit of a head start and then seeing if I can figure a way out. That's one of the reasons I like these G's oTM. In a "normal" game, I would have switched victory choices and probably won a science victory 100 turns or more earlier. But diplo forced me to figure out a way to get it done against what were pretty extreme odds. It was fun.

Thanks again, Leif! You keep making them, I'll keep playing them--longer than everyone else apparently. :)

BTW--as usual, no RA's for me.

ButSam
May 31, 2011, 11:18 AM
Turn 327 - Diplo victory!!!

I can't believe I actually pulled off a win on Emperor without replaying any turns! That was lots of fun!

Got pretty tense at the end, too.

Great GOTM!

(By the way, when you click on the one more turn and save right away, does it automatically advance the turn counter or not? I guess I might have won on turn 326 instead...but to me, time wasn't the big deal, I just wanted to survive long enough to win an Emperor game by the designated condition :)

EDIT - By the way, I also did the "no RA" pact as well.

killerloop
Jun 01, 2011, 04:27 PM
just finished an out of competition 224 turn diplo win w/o RA's. Still made a couple of mistakes, e.g.
1) I had no funds to build a factory when I finished steam power and jumped to globalisation with my 5 GS's and a timed Oxford. This costed me at least 6 turns.
2) Also I didn't manage to have a GE available to jump start UN, this would have been possible, still having the 5GS's.
3) I didn't make maximum use of uni's, schools and jungle tiles.
4) I didn't use scholasticism in my game, went liberty 1st, then tradition
5) I didn't manage happiness carefully, so I played quite some turns with negative happiness, a time where my cities could have grown bigger, London at game end was only 15 Pop, my other cities 14, 10 and 10 pop. FYI, Shanghai and Tyre were also 15 Pop, Bejing 12
6) maybe settling next to mountain would have been better (for observatory) and getting the diamonds in earlier.

I settled in place, build 3 cities and captured Tyre and 2 Chinese cities (incl capital) when I more or less beelined to steel, and after that to education and astronomy when I found out I was alone. I left China with one city for trade purposes. I only build 4 warriors (upgraded to LSM's) and a spearman, 1 trireme and 2 scouts. I lost 2 LSM's in the short war with China.

My 3 cities were:
1) to the South, between the spices and the diamonds
2) to the West, East of the lake where later I found coal
3) to the NE, west of old faithfull to get me the iron.

I build NC when I had two cities.

To be honest I found playing w/o RA's a relief, not having to worry about timing RA's and blocking techs. I did use gold lumpsums for open borders, though.

Fun game, tx

Tabarnak
Jun 01, 2011, 05:17 PM
Turn 327 - Diplo victory!!!

I can't believe I actually pulled off a win on Emperor without replaying any turns! That was lots of fun!

EDIT - By the way, I also did the "no RA" pact as well.

Great job Butam! Congratulations :goodjob:

just finished an out of competition 224 turn diplo win w/o RA's.

To be honest I found playing w/o RA's a relief, not having to worry about timing RA's and blocking techs. I did use gold lumpsums for open borders, though.

Fun game, tx

I added you to the ''no RA'' list. :)

You got the lead so far, two turns only from Attaturk! With no scholasticism it's pretty impressive, but with 1 or 2 extra great scientists it's easier to compensate the lack of beakers. Did you go for scientific revolution(2 free techs)?

killerloop
Jun 02, 2011, 09:10 AM
To Tabarnak:

I didn't develop any SP's in the rationalism tree. As I recall, my SP development was:
Liberty Citizenship (for the early worker) Collective Rule Meritocracy Legalism Aristocracy Landed Elite (for growth) Patronage Monarchy (happiness!) Philantropy and finally Aesthetics as close to the end I didn't need Scholasticism any more. I didn't have time to open rationalism at all.

BTW I stole two workers from Tyre, getting perma-war, so when I started taking Wu on (125 AD), I 1st took Tyre. After 400AD I was at peace.

I also was almost whole game allied with signapore giving me the spices, dyes and horses to trade, and their units to take the 1st hit when I started the war with Wu ;-)

Ribannah
Jun 13, 2011, 08:53 PM
DIPLOMATIC VICTORY
Turn 222 (1560ad)
Score: 3138 (HOF) / 1381 (Game)
Conditions: no RA's, no puppetry
Cities: 12 (11 founded, 1 conquered)
Progress report: 1-121 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10569606&postcount=21), 122-160 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10575921&postcount=22), 161-183 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10575921&postcount=22)

The last 40 turns of the game saw more action than before. We got plenty of units from our militaristic allies, so we made some modest use of them. Our units conquered Berlin, the only German city left, and pushed Japan and Egypt around some when they became unfriendly as our victory neared. Our city state allies took several Japanese and Egyptian cities, which they razed, and could have wiped the both of them out had the game lasted any longer. :p
India, however, stayed on our side the whole game. They only completed two branches of the policy tree.

The timing of our last Great Scientist was suboptimal, or we could have finished 5 turns earlier. Science simply went faster than expected. :mischief:


On turn 212, London popped that Great Scientist and also a Great Engineer, while York completed Oxford University. England entered the modern age, and immediately bulbed to Globalization. The UN was built in a single turn. :king:

London grew to size 29 and added the Sistine Chapel to its assets on the last turn.


The final stretch

London
186 Windmill
189 Seaport
192 Factory (1140g)
203 BRANDENBURG GATE
207 Hospital
211 MACHU PICCHU
212 Harbor
213 UNITED NATIONS
222 SISTINE CHAPEL

Policies
201 Order
220 Freedom

Technology
187 Military Science
192 Steam Power
195 Archaeology
199 Biology
201 Fertilizer
207 Electricity
212 Refrigeration, Plastics (Oxford University), Penicillin (GS), Ecology (GS), Globalization (GS)
213 Railroad
215 Metallurgy
217 Rifling
221 Radio

Tabarnak
Jun 13, 2011, 09:04 PM
Ribannah, i added you to the no RA challenge list.