Has anyone besides me seen this happen in a MP game?

I had "Always renegotiate deals" = OFF and trade routes were OK. No diplo screen came up -- just a message that the luxuries were lost. This was between 2 human players, and neither of us ended the deal. The game did that for us! :mad:

I think you need renogotiate deals = ON to avoid that?

Originally posted by Tai
I think you need renogotiate deals = ON to avoid that?

No, that doesn't help either. Whether it is ON or OFF, if there is 1 or more turns left on the deal, I can't change it without declaring war. If there is no number by the item, I can change it but then the other player is going to lose that resource for at least 1 turn.

This bug might be in civ3 1.29f but I don't remember working that way.

The same thing happens to me in hotseat multiplayer mode. I have found no way to fix it and it is a real pain in the butt.

Originally posted by Unregister
The same thing happens to me in hotseat multiplayer mode. I have found no way to fix it and it is a real pain in the butt.

I feel your pain... when a luxury disappears for a turn it can cause bad things to happen.

I'm not positive but I think this is one of the 'missing' dialogs that were streamlined out of MP.

Originally posted by warpstorm
I'm not positive but I think this is one of the 'missing' dialogs that were streamlined out of MP.

The problem goes beyond dialogs. I tried a PTW 1.14f single player game with a 20 turn deal with always renegotiate = OFF, and the deal did not automatically expire after 20 turns, even though no diplo screen came up. I don't understand why I would expect a popup to occur, since I set renegotiate = OFF. So it's a MP problem only.

"streamlined" ? I'm sure that was their intention, but I would say they "un-streamlined" the game in this case. :lol:

sumthinelse,

I don't think that this bug is entirely a MP issue and is part of other changes made in PTW. I've seen this happen in SP, when you make peace and buy a tech for GPT at the same time. When the 20 turn deal ends the peace extends, which is normal, but the GPT does not stop because it is now tied to the peace agreement rather than the tech that you purchased (not like that in 1.29). I don't know if some of your MP problems are tied to this issue but if not they both should be fixed.

Originally posted by Cartouche Bee
sumthinelse,

I've seen this happen in SP, when you make peace and buy a tech for GPT at the same time. When the 20 turn deal ends the peace extends, which is normal, but the GPT does not stop because it is now tied to the peace agreement rather than the tech that you purchased (not like that in 1.29).

Did you make all the deals on the same screen? I wonder if you did the tech deal on a separate trade screen would that make a difference? Of course, if the AI just wants peace it might not make a decent tech trade after it gets peace. I wonder what happens if you pay GPT for just peace?

Originally posted by sumthinelse


Did you make all the deals on the same screen? I wonder if you did the tech deal on a separate trade screen would that make a difference? Of course, if the AI just wants peace it might not make a decent tech trade after it gets peace. I wonder what happens if you pay GPT for just peace?


Yep, all deals signed on the same screen. Since I normally have, power, on my side, this is a good way to get good deals with the AI and cut down on the GPT to make the deal. But it can be real confusing to see those GPT deals tied to peace, if forces you to renegotiate peace to get rid of it and that may bind you into a 20 turn deal that you do not want.

It seems that deals cut on their own (other than peace) with GPT expire normally (single player with renegotiate off). [I don't play with renegotiate on because alot times the AI can pay more the second time around, unless they are dying.]

Sorry, can't tell you about paying GPT for peace. :) I don't do that. ;)

Originally posted by Cartouche Bee



Sorry, can't tell you about paying GPT for peace. :) I don't do that. ;)

Well, sometimes firaxis is a little more concerned about things that affect the AI adversely than things which hurt humans. If we could get the AI to pay GPT for peace and they had to pay forever maybe they would fix it. :lol:

I've experienced the 'end deal no matter what' bug/feature (take your pick) too. Real annoying when MP'ing. I was fighting a few wars with another player and trading iron for 2 lux. Every 20 turns the deal wa be cancelled. Should be fixed.


Originally posted by Cartouche Bee


It seems that deals cut on their own (other than peace) with GPT expire normally (single player with renegotiate off). [I don't play with renegotiate on because alot times the AI can pay more the second time around, unless they are dying.]


CB, you don't play with renegotiate on, because the AI can pay more the 2nd time. I don't get this. AFAIK if you don't renegotiate a lux/resource deal it continues after the 20 turns have expired on the same conditions untill you (or the ai) cancel it (at least in vanilla civ3). If you expect the AI to pay more the 2nd time it would make sense to set 'always renegotiate' on. So am I misunderstanding you or a things different in PTW single player. (Could be without me noticing, I haven't played PTW single player in a while)

Also in my experience teh AI isn't always prepared to pay more for a lux deal the 2nd time. Especially if it renegotiates the deal on the same conditions instead of just letting it continu there's a big chance it will pay less when you take the 'make a counterproposal' option. If you have ways to avoid this, please let me know :)

ProPain, you make some good points and I think it's the individuals comfort zone that is important.

When the renegotiate screen comes up you are trapped with no way of checking what the world situation is (without this ability, you can't make your best deal). The AI will pay what the item is worth to them upto their ability to pay. If a civ won't pay as much GPT as the last deal it means that they have fewer cities or do not have enough GPT to make the deal. It's not so much the counter proposal that is the problem it is the Civ's situation. Looking at the score and power charts provide pretty good information with regards to a civs global health, advancing or declining. If a civ will let a deal slide longer than 20 turns even though they are sinking in global stature then I may let it slide along also, but I remain in control of what happens on the deal.

I guess it's more of a control the situation stand more than anything, I need to be able to look at all the situations that hinge off any deal before making the renewal. Specially if I all of a sudden decide that civ won't last another 20 turns. ;)

Where the control of the situation is concerned I totally agree with you. Thats why I never have it switched on also.
Originally posted by Cartouche Bee
The AI will pay what the item is worth to them upto their ability to pay. If a civ won't pay as much GPT as the last deal it means that they have fewer cities or do not have enough GPT to make the deal.It's not so much the counter proposal that is the problem it is the Civ's situation. Looking at the score and power charts provide pretty good information with regards to a civs global health, advancing or declining. ]
I have noticed these things too, but encounter one situation which I find much harder to assess. Sometimes the AI is more powerfull and bigger than 20 turns ago. More citizens or improved govenrment usually mean the price of lux will rise (more happy citizens. So you would expect to get more gold, but they can't pay for it. Why? I suspect some other gpt tech (tech/lux) deal with a rival. Sometimes they're easy to see (lux the AI lacked before and posseses now) but the tech deals are much harder to determine. Any insights/tips here?

Yeah, it can be hard cause the civ is doing better but they may have more commitments which make it impossible for them to pony up extra GPT. So I agree it's a bit hit and miss at the best of times unless: you can tie trade of the item into a more complex deal, for instance techs or maybe an alliance (another dangerous deal in PTW). If you can't get a good deal from them don't do it (shop it around), keep trying on subsequent turns cause they may have another deal that expires or they may make a financial change to make more GPT available, like cutting research. If you really need the deal to go through then do it but don't let them 'fleece' you just cause you are trying to make something happen.

New info: The first 20 turn trade deal in my pbem game expired automatically. Very annoying. After we manually restarted the 20 turn luxury trade (2nd time, same exact trade) and waiting until the counter (number displayed by the luxury) in the "Active" screen in the trade menu counted down to nothing, the deal remained! Why did it behave correctly the 2nd time? I don't know. :confused: