We may have found a way to enter the Industrial Age. It may seem a bit costly, but the benefits could outweigh the dent in our treasury.

Our current treasury: 161 gold; 71gpt

Step 1: We can get Theory of Gravity from the Persians for World Map, our surplus Dyes, 60g and 58gpt. They are the only civ that will consider giving it to us.

Step 2: Of all the civs that have Magnetism, only two of them need Theory of Gravity: India and the Iroquois. Since we are still at war with India, we should be able to trade ToG to the Iroquois for Magnetism with no problem. The Iroquois may even offer us extra if they have it.

That could leave us with only 101g and 13gpt, but we would be thrust into the Industrial Age where we would automatically pick up an extra tech(most likely Nationalism).

If we were to do this, it would open up the door for Riflemen, War Mobilization and a chance to see where our neighbors stand in the tech race. Could more trades be possible from there? Only one way to find out!

The alternative is to wait for the Iroquois to discover ToG themselves, thereby missing this golden opportunity and ensuring we remain a backward nation.

This is an informational poll and will run through Saturday's turnchat(3PM GMT/10AM EST). It is in yes/no/ abstain format.

Donovan you cant be serious. Even if you asked for this trade as trade leader id tell you no way. We do not need to be giving up more gpt to anybody for theory of gravity. The units we are still building will eat up gpt and we need each bit of gpt we can squeeze right now to get our treasury back up. And as domestic Leader i dont approve of this trade

As the Trade Leader, I can't accept this. It's too much of our economy. Had we had an extra luxury, I might think about it (there is a Babylonian city with tons of ivory...).

Donovan, I wasn't sure at first but now I must say I agree with Fionn on this one 58gpt is too much to give up, esp. while we're trying to upgrade knights to Cavs.

Can a Mod change my vote from Abstain to No, please?

I don't think so. The plan requires way to much money. We have to have a steady income. Our current military isn't even up to date.

Here's what I've found:

Persia -

36gpt, 40g for dyes

if we had 1 more source of wines...

54gpt, 40g for dyes and wine

Theory of Gravity for Dyes 60gpt, 11g, WM

If we had 1 more source of wines...

Theory of Gravity for Dyes, Wines, 16gpt, 3g, WM

Magnetism for Dyes, WM, 47gpt, 16g

If we had 1 more source of wines...

Megnetism for Dyes, Wines, WM, 3gpt, 8g

I agree with Chieftess's Plan, its mutch cheaper :).

Everybody, your disapproval is noted. Even I thought we were cutting it close with this trade; I just wanted to get a pulse from the public.

For the record, this matter has been in the Citizen's forum for the past day. It would have been nice to have some of this discussion there. But we can continue it here.....

@Chieftess - do we have a sole source of wines to give up? If it saves 40gpt on this trade, this may be the one time this practice could be worth our while.

Merits of my plan(cliff notes version):

1. May be able to get riflemen now(instead of being out of date, Zarn ;) )
2. Could lose our "backward nation" status
3. Essentially 2 techs for the price of one....
4. Will get to see what techs the other advanced civs have in the Industrial Age(more lateral trades possible?)

We should look at the big picture and what this turn of events could bring. Could we temporarily optimize city tiles for commerce to facilitate this trade? What about going into a quick mobilization shortly after discovering Nationalism under this plan, allowing us to build workers, harbors and riflemen quickly? I have ideas for this as well, but everyone will think it is too unsafe!

Bottom line, if you don't like this plan as-is, please help me to find a way it will work. Chieftess, you are off to a great start here....please take us the rest of the way. :)

We would not have enough money to upgrade the units, if we go for your plan. Just because we would be able to build riflemen, doesn't it automatically upgrade all of our troops for free. We still have to pay for upgrades. I just don't like the large amount of money we would pay is worth it. The costs definately have to be reduced. We have to find things to give them to reduce the cost. Chieftess has made a good suggestion, though.

I understand that, Zarn. But even our current situation will only allow us to upgrade 2 pikes to muskets per turn. Muskets! While our enemies run freely with cavalry and defend themselves with units twice as powerful.

If we don't act on this trade(or one like it) soon, we will be one of the last civs to get out of the Middle Ages and will have to continually make trades like this for the remainder of the game. I say let's find a way to bite the bullet now, so we can trade with more equal footing in the future.

so you think giving up a goood portion of our gpt is for the greater good? Nope dont think so. By saving a good portion of our money after the cav upgrades we can upgrade to riflemen as soon as nationalism comes into play which will once we get out of the late middle ages

ehm... no. This is way too much gpt.

Relax, everybody.....Chieftess has proposed an even better trade with Persia for tomorrow's turnchat. This one:

Theory of Gravity for Dyes, Wines, 16gpt, 3g, WM

For the record, I said from the start that this was too much gpt but wanted to see what everyone thought. The important thing all along was to find a way to get to the Industrial Age - not to exhaust our resources, as my two Domestic opponents want you to believe. And now it looks like we will be able to advance into that era.

This poll is definite proof that I will never let politics interfere with a genuine opportunity to make our country better.