View Full Version : Dungeons and Dragons 3rd Edition


damunzy
Dec 30, 2000, 05:51 PM
PC Games that are supposed to use a "3e system" or atleast close enough to be called that :

NeverWinterNights = Expect me to make even less posts when this game comes out. I will be busy setting my computer up as a NWN server www.neverwinternights.com (http://www.neverwinternights.com)

Pedro
Mar 21, 2001, 07:33 AM
Oooh I can't wait till NWN is out! Right now I'm playing Icewind Dale, after completing Baldur's Gate and PlaneScape: Torment. I still have to lay my hands on Baldur's Gate II, though I think that it's just more of the same. I hope Neverwinternights will have a more engrossing story line than BG or Icewind Dale. IMO those games are just a little too much hack n slash.
BTW, does anyone here actually play AD&D for real?
Right now I'm playing in a Birthright campaign with four other friends. I'm a gnomish priest (what about that?).
Maybe you want to take a look at http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/birthright but be sure to have a fast internet connection and flash installed!

damunzy
Dec 19, 2001, 01:41 PM
and we still wait! a whole year later and the game isn't out yet, NeverWinter Nights, or NeverReleased Nights as it is being called now. It "should" be out in 1Q 2002....we'll see.

On a different 3e computer game, Pool of Radiance. What a waste of time. They completely butchered the rules and made the whole game a hack and slash fest that takes to long to complete a battle and way too long to gain a level. Glad I played my friends version before I purchased it!

DaEezT
Dec 20, 2001, 03:14 AM
On a different 3e computer game, Pool of Radiance. What a waste of time. They completely butchered the rules and made the whole game a hack and slash fest that takes to long to complete a battle and way too long to gain a level. Glad I played my friends version before I purchased it!


Thanks for speeking my mind :goodjob:

But no AD&D based game was any better! Baldurs Gate I&II? Not a single Non Weapon Proficiency! Baldurs Gate played more like an adventure than an RPG. For me P:T is the only really good D&D PC game. Best RPG is still Falout 2 followed by Fallout 1 :goodjob:

I think Neverwinter Nights well be like Diablo/Gauntlet with more depth. Not as big an RPG as Fallout, more an Adventure but then it will have an Multiplayer part that outshines that little stain by far. They said that you could connect different servers to a single gameworld and thus theoretically make whole Ferun or even Toril :goodjob:

Anyone taking bets how long it'll take after the release till someone made Undermountain? :lol:

Btw: I'm a retired AD&D & D&D (2nd & 3rd edition that would be) player :)
As well as a bit of DSA(Das Schwarze Auge = good german RPG system), Shadowrun & Rolemaster.

damunzy
Dec 20, 2001, 03:07 PM
Too bad you are retired....I am in a slump. Just moved to a new state and havne't found anyone yet to play with(my fault, have been lazy).

To take this discussion off-topic, which I can do because it is just you and I in here, how about The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind? This game looks good! www.elderscrolls.com I saw the X-box game case for it and it say exclusively for, but I could have sworn it was also coming out for the PC.

I have really only gotten joy out of the Dragon Warrior series of RPGs and they were made how long ago? I haven't finish one RPG since them, although I did have fun with Wizardry 7.

Oh! Wizardry 8 should be out soon also! www.wizardry8.com
I can't wait for that one either. I remember playing Wiz1 on the NES.
Edit: Wiz8 is out, how did I miss that one?!?!

DaEezT
Dec 21, 2001, 02:37 AM
Oh! Wizardry 8 should be out soon also! www.wizardry8.com
I can't wait for that one either. I remember playing Wiz1 on the NES.
Edit: Wiz8 is out, how did I miss that one?!?!

I already have it for more than a week now and I'm still on it :D
Very good game, the only downside so far is that the villages look a bit empty. There are close to no "normal people". There are NPC you can talk to, but u miss the normal people who just walk around the city and bring it to live :/

Too bad you are retired....I am in a slump. Just moved to a new state and havne't found anyone yet to play with(my fault, have been lazy).
well, now after school I got to do that crappy social year and the rest of my gaming group is either working or at university so none of us has the time to do some decent DMing. Also we don't have all the 3rd Edition Books yet (just the 3 Core books and the Sword and Fist). Maybe we'll start again some time.

To take this discussion off-topic, which I can do because it is just you and I in here, how about The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind? This game looks good! www.elderscrolls.com I saw the X-box game case for it and it say exclusively for, but I could have sworn it was also coming out for the PC.
Didn't follow the news about Morrowind. I liked Daggerfall (also I never finished it because of the dungeons and that totally confusing 3D map). The next Elder Scroll game (Redguard?) wasn't any good so I somewhat lost interest in it.

I have really only gotten joy out of the Dragon Warrior series of RPGs and they were made how long ago? I haven't finish one RPG since them, although I did have fun with Wizardry 7.

I finished alot of RPGs. Best one still Fallout2. On console I like FF6 & 5 as well as chrono trigger(*cough* Square*cough*). But I tend more to PC RPGs, they are more complex(most of the time) and more interesting.

How about Rogue-like games?
I like ADoM (http://www.adom.de) alot :goodjob:

damunzy
Dec 26, 2001, 06:31 PM
Rogue-like games...I played one but I can't remember what it's name is anymore. I got bored with it after I hacked the save file with a hex editor (not a big feat I know, but my one claim to hacking, well that and Wiz7 and using a hex editor).

I just purchased Wizardry 8 today with a gift certificate that I got from my mother in-law. Thanks Mom :)
I like it so far, just minor complaints that I just may not know how to solve.
1. Is there a way to get the mouselook to turn off when I release the right button instead of it being on until I click it again? See, a minor one.
2. There isn't a No_CD crack out yet for the newest patch or the patch before that.

Other than that I am enjoying the game.

DaEezT
Dec 27, 2001, 03:46 AM
1. RTFM ;) Appendix5: GameOptions (Page 127). 7th thingy from top. You can turn that on/off in the game options.
2. Yes there is but it doesn'T work :/ But the one for Civ3 works so I leave the Wiz8 CD in my drive.

Simon Darkshade
Dec 27, 2001, 05:53 AM
I am an AD&D real player from a long way back, and scornfully refuse to acknowledge or have anything to do with "3e". Dungeons and Dragons!
Bah! What was wrong with "Advanced?"
Thus, I am unacquainted with these new fangle computer games as a matter of principle. I'm a Gold Box stalwart, and the only reason I am not playing them right now is that they are on my other computer, and this one is WAAAAAAY too fast. There are solutions to that, I hear...
Personally, I don't like the 3-d view, or the point and click interface that all these new (per)versions of AD&D have.....grumble, grumble.

But such is life. I also don't like some of the reports I here which say that in Baldur's Gate (?) ye do not play the good guy.

I guess I'm just old fashioned.:cool:

Six
Dec 27, 2001, 07:04 PM
I can't wait for NWN, and I look forward to getting to grips with the 3rd Edition Rules, as my real games still use the original 2nd edition where 'kits' do not exist, and 'forgotten realms' has only had 4 modules released (I have all the old Greyhawk classics).

Icepick Trotsky
Dec 28, 2001, 12:54 AM
Do you all play D&D 3e?

damunzy
Dec 28, 2001, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
I am an AD&D real player from a long way back, and scornfully refuse to acknowledge or have anything to do with "3e". Dungeons and Dragons!
Bah! What was wrong with "Advanced?"
Might as well change that to "Bah, I don't need a car, my horse does fine!". 3e is a great improvement on AD&D 2nd edition. They basically incorporated a lot of the house rules that I have seen in most of the different gaming groups I played with and did even better. The made it desirable to get a high roll every time making the system easier and fast to learn and use. You can go and keep 2e for all I care, all my 2e books are availiable really cheap at used book stores. :)
To Icepick Trotsky:
not all of us, but I do.

Simon Darkshade
Dec 28, 2001, 05:46 AM
Without going into long tales of different gaming preferences and experiences, or the merits of either, my point was to express my confusion as to why they saw fit to remove "Advanced" from the title...
It meant the death of D&D, and the rebirth of AD&D into D&D 3e (nb: D&D was getting rare in comparison to AD&D, but some people still liked it, or looked upon with nostalgia.

There it is, nostalgia, which seems to be a "bad thing", as expressed by the equating of preference for the old system with preferring a horse over a car.

Another matter that gets my goat on the issue is that all the work and money put into the old was invalidated just like that. One day I knew not, the next I knew. And the fact that I prefer the old system is a bad thing, that I'm against change, etc, etc. These attitudes are another thing that I dislike about 3e, where people treat you as infidel for not converting (not you PH76, but gamers I have encountered)
My old rules work fine for me and mine, but cause one to labelled as a dinosaur for using something from 1998... I dislike the 3e snobbery against those who like 2e, but most of all, I've read the rules et al, and disliked them.

And that is why I am not a 3e fan.

Flatlander Fox
Dec 28, 2001, 06:59 AM
I like 1st edition rules... The rules where a 19th level wizard cast a 19x6d fireball, double specializing with weapons, and psionics were attainable.

I played many a day (and night) with 1st edition rules, and really didn't dig on the 2nd edition all that much.

As for third edition, I don't know. When I get home, perhaps I'll be able to get a group together and see how it works.

Magnus
Dec 31, 2001, 10:12 AM
I have been DM-ing 3rd edition for 6 months now and think its the best yet by far. In fact, before I read the rules, I hadn't RPG'd in 5 years. The 3rd Edition inspired me to make a comeback.

damunzy
Dec 31, 2001, 08:56 PM
I started playing 2e and didn't like the thought of another editon coming out and ruining what was good. I think that they have only streamlined the rules.
Main changes I like:
01.All stats bonuses are the same. Example: an 18 Dex gives you a +4 to your AC, a +4 to you Hide in Shadows, a +4 to your Move Silently, and a +4 to your Inititiative. an 18 Str gives you a +4 to Hit with Melee weapons, +4 to Damage, +4 to Swim rolls, etc.
02.All rolls, whether they are for saving throws, to hit, to damage, etc, the higher the better. I remember in 2e rolling to hit it was good to roll high, rolling for psionic powers the point was to roll nearest your psipower score, and thieving rolls - the lower the better. Talk about confusion!
03.About Thieving rolls again: Now instead of them being percentile you now only need to roll a d20 and add your modifiers (Appropriate Stat bonus, Appropriate Skill, and MISC modifiers).

DaEezT
Jan 01, 2002, 05:58 AM
But there is one thing I liked about 2e: Fighter
IMO the fighter in 3e is crap. yeah, I know, you need it to get some of the good prestige classes (Arcane Archer rocks) but apart from that? In 2e u had things up to grand mastery: +3 hit & damage, extra attack, higher damage dice & higher critical chance. In 3e everyone can take that better critical feat or that improved 2 weapon fighting feat. I think they should have given the fighter some more feats that are fighter only (like the two i just named).
The new level/class system is good and simple but a bit bad too :/
I mean: I have a 15 level fighter and want to take 1 level of wizard so i can be an arcane archer. why do i need the same xp for that single wizard lvl that i would need for lvl 16 fighter? and why do i get 1d4 hp then? It's still the same body. They should have made it more like that dual class in 2e. I don'T understand why a level 18 Rogue needs the same xp for level 19 as for lvl 1 wizard! Learning the basics of a level 1 wizard can't be as hard as learning the skills needed to be a level 19 rogue!

IMO the best thing in 3e is the new magic system :goodjob:
Now u can do some spell battles with countering/dispelling :D

The classes are a bit unbalacnced IMO.
fighter gets same HP & attack bonus as Ranger or Paladin. But those 11 bonus feats aren't worth as much as the abilities the ranger or paladin get. Or fighter vs babarian. Barbarian gets more HP, +10 movement(try to get that trough a feat) uncanny dodge, damage resistance & rage (at lvl 20 the negative effect after rage is removed).

The best RPG System is still Shadow Run :)

damunzy
Jan 01, 2002, 08:53 AM
DaEezT: I don't know how long you have played but the group I have played with (only one group since 3e came out) has a different view on the classes. We feel the fighter is the best out of the 4 warrior types (Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, and Ranger). The Ranger gets a butt load of special abilities at 1st lvl (Species Enemy, Tracking, and Two-Weapon Fighting and Abidexterity when wearing light or no armor; All of these together are like 4 feats for free at first). Fighter gets one free feat, but then he gets one every other level after also, making him very powerful and flexible in physical combat in the higher levels. The Ranger get a few spells, and every 5 levels an increase to their species enemy and a new species enemy, not all that much IMO. The Paladin gets a better balance of powers throughout their level progression but cannot met the might of the fighter in battle. The Barbarian gets and average of 1 extra hitpoint per level compared to the fighter and gets a few special abilities. Their best ability is the +10 feet of movement followed closely by the Rage, once again IMO. The fighters greater selection of Feats still outshine the barbarian in combat, the figher will also have a higher armor class, but 1/2 the speed (Heavy Armor reduces a Fighter to 20 move while the barbarian who is still wearing light, more than likely, will still have a 40 (30 base +10 barbarian speed bonus).
If you wanted the "Best" Warrior you can put together, a mixture of Ranger/Barbarian/Fighter would do it. Take you first level in Ranger (More skills than the other clases, MS+HS, TwoHanded Fighting, Abidexterity, Tracking, Species Enemy for free), then take a level in Barbarian (Rage, extra hitpoint, Fast Movement) and then take a level in Fighter (Extra Feat). Not only would you get all the stuff listed you would also have +6 to your fortitude roll, something that would take you close to 6th level to do as a straight warrior. Unfortunately if you wanted to use all your "free" abilities/feats you will need to wear at max light armor. If you were Human you would get no exp penalty as the highest class lvl is excempt (if you just rose in Fighter after the first 2 levels of Ranger and Barbarian) and the other 2 classes are the same level.

Warning: I might have gotten limiting Ranger and Barbarin abilities to up to Light Armor wrong, it might be all the way up to Medium Armor but I don't have my books available.

damunzy
Jan 01, 2002, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by DaEezT
But there is one thing I liked about 2e: Fighter
IMO the fighter in 3e is crap. yeah, I know, you need it to get some of the good prestige classes (Arcane Archer rocks) but apart from that? In 2e u had things up to grand mastery: +3 hit & damage, extra attack, higher damage dice & higher critical chance. In 3e everyone can take that better critical feat or that improved 2 weapon fighting feat. I think they should have given the fighter some more feats that are fighter only (like the two i just named).
Yes everyone can take the feat but the fighter gets it in half the time. So when you are 8th level as a figher you have the feat the Rogue has to wait till about 18th and has spent all his feats on combat and not improving his Thieving abilities with feats (the Rogue could have taken a feat to give him a +3 to one skill adding to his already good MS, HS, or Picking Locks)
Originally posted by DaEezT
The new level/class system is good and simple but a bit bad too :/
I mean: I have a 15 level fighter and want to take 1 level of wizard so i can be an arcane archer. why do i need the same xp for that single wizard lvl that i would need for lvl 16 fighter?
Well you could look at it as you are maintaining your old class' skills while learning a new one so the extra exp is used in that way, but the real reason is b/c everyone would multiclass then b/c it would be so cheap in experience. Everyone would be walking around as a character with 8 different class all 5th level and the straight character only has 1 class and is maybe 8th level.

and why do i get 1d4 hp then? It's still the same body.
Because the new training or learning you are doing is more mental than physical so you are not improving your body as much as you are improving your mind (if you want the hit points then stay a fighter, you changed classes so that means you want the spells more than hitpoints which is the drawback of being a mage). The better approach, IMHO, would have been to scrap the class system in favor of letting everyone pick and choose their abilities directly with experience (basically exchanging experience points to gain a new ability, like 500 xp = +1 to hit or 500 xp = +1 new spell)


They should have made it more like that dual class in 2e. Multiclassing and Dual Classing in 2e was so broke it isn't funny.

IMO the best thing in 3e is the new magic system :goodjob:
Now u can do some spell battles with countering/dispelling :DI like the magic system better, but it is still not completely to my liking. I still hate for my character having memorize spells.

Magnus
Jan 01, 2002, 09:59 AM
I think that spells costing fatique when cast would be a nice way of allowing more spell freedom. Casters would then be limited on what they can cast per battle, but not per day.

Say the fatigue cost (temporary hit point damage i.e. subdual) would be 1d6 per level of the spell minus the caster's total additions to the saving throw against his spell. Thus a sorceror with the feat 'spell focus: Evocation' & a 14 charisma would roll [1d6 -4] subdual damage taken for a first level magic missle cast. [1d6 -2]for a sleep spell cast (as this is not evocation) and [3d6-4] for a fireball cast. Note in some cases the caster takes NO damage at all. This would eliminate spell memorization rules for arcane casters. Just keep the clerics around to keep them battle ready.

DaEezT
Jan 01, 2002, 11:04 AM
hmm...
I kinda like the memorizing thing but not completly.
They should have a combination of a Spell Point and a memorize system. Small things (say level 0 - 4) can be cast from a pool of points (wether they are spell, magic or fatigue points isn't important) and more powerful & complex spells require study.
You could give a spellcaster a Magic skill value based on level, spellcraft skill, special feats, intelligence and dexterity(for somatic stuff). Spells get a difficulty value based on the level, number of componen types (S/M/V), number of components, complexity of casting. Magic Skill > Difficulty = cast prom points, Magic Skill < Difficulty = memorize.

But well, we gotta live with what they give us or make a complete set of rules for ourselves :/

damunzy
Jan 01, 2002, 11:19 PM
I like both of your ideas Magnus and DaEezT. I think I might try out that spell fatigue. So if you roll the 1d6-4 and on the die you get 1 do you take 1 point of damage or 0? The books always say at least 1 damage but maybe it works different for the spells?

Also ever run into the problem of animal attacks like eagles. They get something like 1d6-4 for their claws. What do they get on a crit? 1d6-4 x 2? Or 2d6-4? I never could find where in the book it says, but 1d6-4 x 2 sounds stupid since a critical hit is supposed to be a better hit and not the same result!.

Magnus
Jan 02, 2002, 01:42 AM
D&D3 has a minimum of 1 per die rolled, so that hawk would crit and do 2d6-8 (everything is doubled on a crit!) so he is essentially gonna do 2 pts of damage but maybe get lucky and do 3 or 4.

The most fun thing about spell fatigue is say your wizard is down to 7 hit points and a nasty horde of monsters is bearing down on the party so he lets loose a fireball - and falls unconscious from the shock (i.e. 10 hp of self inflicted fatigue) as the monsters are blown to smithereens. How heroic! Like he KNEW it was gonna knock him out but he had to do it to save everyone else.

damunzy
Jan 02, 2002, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Magnus
D&D3 has a minimum of 1 per die rolled, so that hawk would crit and do 2d6-8 (everything is doubled on a crit!) so he is essentially gonna do 2 pts of damage but maybe get lucky and do 3 or 4.Good point.

The most fun thing about spell fatigue is say your wizard is down to 7 hit points and a nasty horde of monsters is bearing down on the party so he lets loose a fireball - and falls unconscious from the shock (i.e. 10 hp of self inflicted fatigue) as the monsters are blown to smithereens. How heroic! Like he KNEW it was gonna knock him out but he had to do it to save everyone else. I have read so many books where a situation like this came up and hated that D&D didn't allow it. 3e is the first time I have played a Mage and enjoyed it, making it all the way up to level 9. The other versions I might have made it up to 2, if I was lucky to live that long. :)

damunzy
Jan 09, 2002, 01:11 AM
I know this is a long shot but I will try anyway. Is there anyone within a hour or so from Philly that is having a game that I can come to? I just moved up from North Carolina and haven't been to a game in months now. Thanks ;)[/beg]

Magnus
Jan 09, 2002, 09:45 AM
LOL @ [/beg]

I am running my game Saturday but am a good 5 hours from Philly.

[evil DM] fun things to do with a party that has undercurrent dislikes for one another: throw a symbol of discord at them - they get to fight each other guilt-free for 2d4 rounds! (I only had one death - I was hoping for a little more - hehehee) [/evil DM]

knowltok3
Jan 09, 2002, 10:25 AM
I'd love to find a game in or near Columbus, Ohio, but I don't want to just find a bunch of strangers. I don't have any of the new 3E stuff, but I'd buy what I need in a heart beat.

I remember playing a few games back in the day on a message board. They never really lasted very long though...too bad.

damunzy
Jan 11, 2002, 07:32 AM
I found a great site for finding players or groups to play with. Now this won't fit your criteria knowltok3 b/c they will be strangers but it is better than nothing. And now, the link: http://www5.ewebcity.com/mshensley/
I have listed myself (under PA) and found a group on there. I emailed the group offering the game and received an email back stating that they would be glad to have me in the game. I just now have to call them and get directions and find out what day they are playing. Will tell you how it went when I get back. Hopefully I don't get kidnapped ;) or would it be horsenapped?

knowltok3
Jan 11, 2002, 11:32 AM
Thanks for the website. I may have to see about joing a group. Civfanatics seems to be filling my need for intellectual coversation, now all I need is my need to act like a half crazed evil wizard (I'll just take Simon Darkshade as a model ;) ).

damunzy
Jan 13, 2002, 05:34 PM
Update: Have not found a group yet. The guy I was in email correspondence with found out that they had already added 2 new people into the group and they are now full :( either that or the police were breathing down their necks for the other victims.....er, players that have come up missing. ;)