I've been playing Emperor lately and after switching to making mostly military units early, I've been winning virtually all of my games. Now I have a start where I really don't know which path to take and I'd like some advice.

The settings are Small Fractal Map, Emperor, Normal speed. No Vassals (hate them), no huts, no events, and Aggressive AI.

As you can see from the SS, I'm playing Lincoln and my capital is nine tiles (!) away from Charlemagne's. He founded Buddhism, so culture will be a problem soon. Since he's Protective, I'm not sure that I can just rush him. I'm pretty sure settling between the wine and the copper should be a priority (to deny Charlie), but after that, I don't know how best to keep him in check. I don't remember playing that many games against him, so I'm not sure how fast he techs and what defenses he keeps.

Julius is to the West in the fog, but the peninsula should keep him from expanding too quickly in my direction. I think Charlie is on the east coast, which means the only real land to settle is north of us.

So any suggestions other than to keep a decent standing army?

Settle that city 1S of where you marked and go rush HRE. Just bring lots of axes.

Axe-rushing Charles is pretty much out (PRO + holy city... I think not). If you can get horses and taking that copper means he has no copper, then a HA rush isn't out of the question. Alternatively, adopt Buddhism and you'll get to Pleased with Charles fairly quickly, at which point you can breathe a sigh of relief.

Scout out that peninsula a little more thoroughly - you may want to settle a blocking city somewhere along it as your third city, but you don't know the terrain well enough yet to decide where.

Edit: Cross-post with above. Maybe axe-rushing isn't out. It seemed risky to me; perhaps I'm just paranoid.

If you bring enough axes, pro shouldn't be too much of a problem. Scout him out to see if he has metal: if he does use axes, if he dosen't use HA's.(cross-posting with everybody above me)

Edit: Could you please post a save?

You have quite a few good food sites, so an alternative may be building 4-5 cities and waiting for catapults?

+1 for putting the 2nd city 1s if you intend to axe rush. Also I would overwhip, you will suffer more losses than usual and have the holy city (+ hopefully shrine) to recover after the war.

you could settle ON the copper, even if it looks dumb, there will be no cultural fight over tiles...just cultural fight for your city ;-)

OTOH there is no real need for rushing with axes.

to the west you have another source of copper and around capital is so much food that you can easily place 4-5 cities and think about cats warfare and forget a bit about east...

Charlemagne is one of the toughest SOB's to dislodge of all civs in the game, with PRO, enormous culture, and enough self-preservation to produce a fair number of Archers.

Sure you can take him out with Axes. Only question is: is it worth it?

I'd be inclined to say "no". Unless you're incredibly lucky (either during the attack, or that Charlie starts to buildi something that distracts him from defending himself), going for Construction and taking him out with Catapults will be MUCH cheaper.

If your back was against the wall, then perhaps you'd have no option. Doesn't appear to be the case here, as long as you prioritize settling aggressively against his borders.

BTW, is his capital on a hill?

Thanks for all of the advice. I figured Charlie would be tough without cats, but I don't like his Holy City Capital that close. If I'm lucky I'll get religion early and can combat it somewhat. It's also Aggressive AI, so maybe he'll declare on me and needlessly throw a stack or two against one of my cities.

4000 and 3000BC Save attached for GGrachus.

Charlemagne is one of the toughest SOB's to dislodge of all civs in the game, with PRO, enormous culture, and enough self-preservation to produce a fair number of Archers.

Sure you can take him out with Axes. Only question is: is it worth it?

I'd be inclined to say "no". Unless you're incredibly lucky (either during the attack, or that Charlie starts to buildi something that distracts him from defending himself), going for Construction and taking him out with Catapults will be MUCH cheaper.

If your back was against the wall, then perhaps you'd have no option. Doesn't appear to be the case here, as long as you prioritize settling aggressively against his borders.

This was they way I was thinking, especially if I can take out Rome in the meantime. I'll have to scout further, of course.

BTW, is his capital on a hill?

I won't know until Open Borders.

Taking his capital would be worth the extra pain if you do it as early as humanly possible. On a small map, th evalue of taking a single AI city early is multiplied. A capital even more so. A capital so close that the maintenance costs will be no big deal even more more so.

It's still a good idea even if it sets you back a bit, unless there's an AI just out of sight to your west. Otherwise, you've got easily blocked-off land to backfill that doesnt need to be rushed. You'll cripple the nearest AI, end up taking his holy city at some point if he founds one (if I'm not mistaken that's a likely scenario with Charles), taking his capital will probably allow you to squeeze techs out of him for peace to make up for what you skipped for your axe rush. Second early capital location is a huge huge boost on a small map.

Alternate strategy would be to use your first axes to possibly steal a worker and choke him of any improved tiles. Longer and more tedious but often easier.

I really don't see the need to rush him with axes now. I must add that I suck at axe rushing and that axe rushes suck in general.

You can Oracle yourself something nice with your early gold and your forests and then attack in a manner that is not a total crapshoot. I mean how many axes do you need for a city on a hill with 3 archers defending? 12 to take it for certain?

A risky line might be AH -> Writing -> chop Library (run 2 scientist) -> Priesthood, bulb math in the meanwhile, tech masonry and take Construction.

Or if you have horses just take HBR from Oracle. I prefer this one because Charlie spams his cities with only 1 weak escort unit and you can pick off 3-4 cities on turn 1 of the war if you feel like it.


I will try the save.

I played a little further:


No horses visible, and Charlie beat me to a second city (that archer moving toward it is a 2nd garrison unit), but as you can see, it's not on the copper. So I'm hooking up a pig, then I'll chop a Library and try for the Oracle. I don't try it that often, but it seems like I'm in a good spot for it. I'll build two more warriors after the lib, one for garrison and one to explore west. Then an axe and another settler and hopefully then it will be time for the oracle.