They can attack without starting a war, but if you attack them it starts a war.

The AI created an army and loaded a hidden nationality unit (they loaded a PMC); hence, the white flag. But their nationality is given away by the a secondary civ colour that tells me it is the Sioux (cyan colour).

I was thinking that maybe this colour should always be a neutral colour, black would probably work.

Is this something that could be easily changed or is it best to just leave it alone.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8819/hiddensioux.png


Edit: They can attack without starting a war, but if you attack them it starts a war.

They attacked Carthage without starting a war. Then they attacked me without declaring war and did not start a war.

When I went to return fire on my turn, which I have been doing during the game already on hidden nationality units, the window popped up saying I would being declaring war, would you like to continue.

Adding a hidden nationality unit to an army adds a whole new dimension.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/390/hidarmy3.png


Edit:


So in that scenario, does the "Are you sure you want to declare war on ___" appear in mid-combat, allowing you to abort the attack? Or do you automatically declare war?-although I don't know how that would make itself known to the player...


You prompted me to set up a test.
If you load a single hidden nationality unit into the army and attack, then you attack without starting a war. Add a second hidden nationality unit to the army and the same thing happens.

If the second unit added to the army is a non-hidden nationality, then the army declared war at the start of the fight, not in the middle.

So there is no starting a war in the middle of a fight.


Edit:


Something else I noticed, not with armies, but in a similar vein:

If a unit with hidden nationality is in a barricade/fortress and in its territory and you attack, you will be declaring war.

The barricade/fortress gives the unit it's nationality, just like the army does.

Funny thing is that I can bomb or bombard that unit without starting a war, but if I attack with a ground unit I will be declaring war.:crazyeye:


Edit:


One more thing that I have confirmed for myself (others may have already done so):

If a hidden nationality unit (not loaded into an army, just the unit) attacks a Civ's unique unit and the unique unit wins the battle, then the unique unit's Civ goes into a Golden age (if it hadn't already done so).

Does the army itself have hidden nationality? Wondering if HN Army + HN unit(s) avoids war when you attack. Same for HN Army + normally flagged unit(s)?

Does the army itself have hidden nationality? Wondering if HN Army + HN unit(s) avoids war when you attack. Same for HN Army + normally flagged unit(s)?


The army doesn't have hidden nationality.


It seems that when the army attacks, the unit in the army doing the attacking has its nationality used. If you were to have a mix of one hidden nationality and one non-hidden nationality in the army, then war would probably be declared half way through the fight; that is, if the hidden nationality unit was the first unit used by the army.

When the army defends, the army's nationality is used.

Let's try something interesting. As the unit is doing the attacking, what happens if two armies in such a condition clash?

Let's try something interesting. As the unit is doing the attacking, what happens if two armies in such a condition clash?

The attacking army will not declare war until it starts using a unit that as a declared nationality.

The defending army will think it is being attacked by a hidden nationality until the attacking army starts using a unit that as a declared nationality.

So in that scenario, does the "Are you sure you want to declare war on ___" appear in mid-combat, allowing you to abort the attack? Or do you automatically declare war?-although I don't know how that would make itself known to the player...

So in that scenario, does the "Are you sure you want to declare war on ___" appear in mid-combat, allowing you to abort the attack? Or do you automatically declare war?-although I don't know how that would make itself known to the player...

You prompted me to set up a test.
If you load a single hidden nationality unit into the army and attack, then you attack without starting a war. Add a second hidden nationality unit to the army and the same thing happens.

If the second unit added to the army is a non-hidden nationality, then the army declared war at the start of the fight, not in the middle.

So there is no starting a war in the middle of a fight.



Now getting back to my initial question:

The AI created an army and loaded a hidden nationality unit (they loaded a PMC); hence, the white flag. But their nationality is given away by the a secondary civ colour that tells me it is the Sioux (cyan colour).

I was thinking that maybe this colour should always be a neutral colour, black would probably work.

Is this something that could be easily changed or is it best to just leave it alone.

Maybe it is too much work 4 flics times 4 era's to change the secondary civ colour on the flag to black.

After all, how often is this going to happen. Edit: Actually the Sioux built a second army with hidden nationality, so it is viable in my current game.

Something else I just noticed, not with armies, but in a similar vein:

If a unit with hidden nationality is in a barricade/fortress and in its territory and you attack, you will be declaring war.

The barricade/fortress gives the unit it's nationality, just like the army does.

Edit: Funny thing is that I can bomb or bombard that unit without starting a war, but if I attack with a ground unit I will be declaring war.:crazyeye:

We should try HN artillery too.

Which begs the question of Civinator's zero range artillery. Would it cause a war? CCM does not use Armies,and so has no way to come up in a game.

I've thought of a new but related thing: whose nationality is taken into account when doing amphibious assaults? The one of the amphibious unit, that of the transport, or both?

HN Snipers with artillery range and tag....

What tag?

Something else I just noticed, not with armies, but in a similar vein:

If a unit with hidden nationality is in a barricade/fortress and in its territory and you attack, you will be declaring war.

The barricade/fortress gives the unit it's nationality, just like the army does.

Edit: Funny thing is that I can bomb or bombard that unit without starting a war, but if I attack with a ground unit I will be declaring war.:crazyeye:

Mate I did a little test to see it myself....

I gave a single unit Hidden Nationality and put one outside the territory, one in the territory and one in it's city.

Attacking the units by artillery, no war!
Attacking the units by ground troeps, no war until I attack the unit in the city.

Redback, were these units placed in barricades or fortresses?

Redback, were these units placed in barricades or fortresses?

No...two of them on normal gras and one in a city

Pounder's entire post was referring to hidden nationality units within barricades and/or fortresses, which is where the irregularities come in...

One more thing that I have confirmed for myself (others may have already done so):

If a hidden nationality unit (not loaded into an army, just the unit) attacks a Civ's unique unit and the unique unit wins the battle, then the unique unit's Civ goes into a Golden age (if it hadn't already done so).

Edit: I have summarized this thread in the: Civ3 - Tutorials, Reference, & Guides Forum.

That's to be expected, the only way a UU doesn't generate a Golden Age is by fighting barbarians.

On further game play, I as a human player built an army with a single unit with hidden nationality and tried to attack an AI city , the game would not allow me to attack (the capture flag is set on the hidden nationality unit), it was like I was trying attack with a worker, except there wasn't even a message saying that this unit could not attack. The game just didn't acknowledge anything, it was like it was an impassible tile. The thing is that the game allows the AI to attack a city with the same army configuration. I also noticed that the army flag was my civ colour while the AI army flag colour would be white.

This army has no problem attacking enemy units without starting a war, it just can't attack a city.

I haven't tried to attack a enemy unit in a barricade yet I will update when I do.

If you were at war with that civ you could attack, no prob.

If you were at war with that civ you could attack, no prob.

Yes, that's right.

What I did just now:
1) I am not at war.
2) I tried to atttack a city with the Army loaded with Hidden Nationality Unit and the game doesn't even give a message telling me that I would be declaring war, it just doesn't let me go to that tile/city.
3) I go to the diplomacy window and declared war on that civ, then the Army loaded with Hidden Nationality Unit has no problem attacking that city and has no problem occupying that city.

The AI doesn't have that problem. The AI can attack a city with the Army loaded with Hidden Nationality Unit and not declare war.

Yes, the same happens in Plot's Rood and Dragon, I can't use my Wanderers to attack although the AI can swarm my place and I never know where they come from. I got those filthy Welsh and their sheep eventually.

One more thing, the AI Hidden Nationality in an Army or Hidden Nationality no-Army can attack a human army without declaring war, but the Human can not do the same.

Something else I just noticed, my Privateer (naval unit with hidden nationality) is set up for defensive bombard, the bombard flag is not checked.

The unit works as set up for the human player, if I have two or more units in a stack, the privateer will fire a shot first when the stack is attacked. I can not bombard another unit or a city with the privateer. All is as configured.

On the other hand the AI uses these units and they are going around bombarding: they actually move in, bombard, then move away, one after the other.

One more set of crossed wires with hidden nationality.