View Full Version : [BETA] Putmalk's Ancient Mesopotamia


Putmalk
Aug 27, 2011, 09:26 AM
New version here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11030679#post11030679).

Author's Note

This is a scenario Beta. It is designed for feedback generation. You can leave feedback here or in the preview thread, it doesn't matter to me. All things are subject to change. Mostly this is a tweaking period, but if serious balance or gameplay issues arise it may require drastic changes. Thank you, and I hope you enjoy. It has taken me about two months to work on this.

When play testing, please test the Scenario included with the mod files. Please check "Load Scenario". Playing random maps does not test the scenario, but it will test balance. The end result will only be the scenario, so this is the most important to me.

Scenario Features

9 Playable Civs (Macedon, Egypt, Achaemenid, Babylon, Hittites, Lydia, Phoenicia, Mitanni, Medes)
13 new techologies
12 new units
4 custom civs
9 new buildings
8 new Wonders, 2 New National Wonders
3 (soon 4) new Social Policy Trees, 2 Updated Trees
Custom art assets for every new entity in the game (2D icons only, 3D art help greatly needed!)
Immersive timeline (400 turns over 2100 years (2000 B.C. -> 100 A.D.)
3 Victory Conditions (Culture, Domination, Time)


*Spain/Inca and Babylon DLC required
Version 5 and above (Not Yet Released): *Mongol DLC required

Download Link/Instructions
(Version 4)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MNGL7GXC


1) Unzip the file
2) Move the scenario map file into Documents/My Games/Civ V/MAPS
3) Move the .civ5mod file into Documents/My Games/Civ V/MODS. DELETE THE OLD VERSION!
4) Load up Civilization V.
5) Go to MODS, BROWSE MODS
6) On the bottom right-hand side is an Install Mods button
7) Click it, let it do its thing, enable the mod, disable all others and leave
8) Click PLAY GAME, SETUP GAME, select "Ancient Mesopotamia" and click "Load Scenario"
9) Choose a civ, play!
10) Don't forget to leave feedback here or in the scenario thread! Thanks!


I hope you enjoy, and please leave feedback so I can get this out of Beta!

I've screenshots to post, but civfanatics is loopy and not letting me upload them. So, I guess...wait a bit?

Putmalk
Aug 27, 2011, 01:15 PM
Reserved for updates

Version 4

AI

AI now correctly understands what the Temple of Artemis does.

Bugfixes

Burial Tomb now correctly requires Polytheism
Egyptian War Chariot now correctly requires Horses
Barbarian Axeman now correctly requires Bronze Working
Corrected error in Musician civilopedia tooltip
Education tooltip corrected


Civilizations

New Civilization: The Medes
Leader: Cyaxares
Trait: Might of Media (Great Generals provide +20% combat bonus, and 50% chance to convert Land Barbarians)
Unique Unit: Skirmisher (Replaces Horseman, 12 Strength, no combat penalty when attacking cities, more expensive)
Unique Building: Qanat (Replaces Aqueduct, 40% Food carried over, +2 Food, Wheat provides +2 Food)


Gameplay

Satrap's Court Redesigned: Now replaces the Courthouse, and provides +50% Gold in addition to removing all Occupied unhappiness in a city. The Satrap's Court requires no maintenance.
Garden now provides +2 Food
Babylon's Ingenuity trait now awards a Free Great Scientist at Alphabet, instead of Writing
Alphabet no longer requires Sailing
Philosophy now requires Optics
Temple of the Gods now generates 25% culture, down from 33%
Temple of Artemis increases Great Person generation rate by 33% in all cities
Temple of Artemis now generates +5 Culture, up from +4
Swordsman cost 85 Production to build, up from 75
Onager costs 110 Production to build, down from 120
Horse Archer now has a Strength of 5, down from 7
Aqueduct now requires Mathematics, cost reduced to 80, but now only grants +25% food after a new citizen is born


Scenario

Media are now a fully playable civilization on the map
Land area north of Persia and around Ganzak has been improved to allow the Medes to grow
Achaemenids now start much further north


UI

Seaport has a new icon
Observatory has a new icon
Visual improvements to Shukuthlu, Peltast icons
Mariyannu Chariot has a new icon
Civilization Dawn of Man text now has been changed to the Scenario Dawn of Man text



Version 3

AI

Readjusted policy flavors so the AI has a better grasp of understanding of the new policies.
Alexander now has a strong naval and military training flavor. Diplomacy and culture flavors have been significantly reduced
Darius is now a more hostile leader bent on building a strong military and expanding his empire as fast as he can. He is not a deceptive leader.


GAMEPLAY

Barbarians cannot build Slingers
Barbarian Axeman are a new unit and replace the normal Axeman for Barbarians. They retain the 50% melee bonus, but their strength has been lowered from 7 to 6.
Mitanni and Phoenician traits now correctly REDUCE maintenance of land and naval units by 33%, instead of increasing it.
Tower of Babel now increases production of land units by 15%.
Numerous updates to correct unit upgrade path.
Science and Diplomatic victories can now be chosen in a random game setup again, but have been disabled in the scenario
Science and Diplomatic victories will not win the game when their prerequisites have been fulfilled.
Minor increase of costs for Sailing, Writing, Calendar, The Wheel, Trapping, Masonry, Bronze Working (60 -> 80)
Palace Happiness reduced to 3.


POLICIES

Tradition: Now gives +3 Culture to the capital, down from +4
Monarchy: Now also provides +1 Culture in the Capital
Landed Elite: Monuments now also provide +1 Culture
Aristocracy: Strength of all cities now increased to 25% instead of 10%
Liberty: Gold reduction of Buying Land tiles reduced to 33%
Liberty: Capital Settler production increased to 33%
Collective Rule: Now also provides a Free Worker
Republic: Settler production in all cities increased to 33%
Titanic Worship: Now also gives +1 Culture from each Temple of the Gods
Polytheism: Now also grants +1 Culture in every city
Heroic Triumph: Now gives +4 Culture from each World Wonder
Monotheism: Now grants +6 Culture in the capital, +1 Culture per city removed
Slave Infrastructure: Gold maintenance reduction from buildings increased to 33%, and +10% Production in the Capital
Slave Infrastructure: Now correctly DECREASES maintenance on buildings, as opposed to increasing it.
Slave Trade: Now grants +2 Production per Market, and +1 Happiness per Production building (Forge, Workshop, Seaport)
Slave Finisher: Specialists produce +1 Production, and Mines produce +1 Production

SCENARIO

Added tons of Horse resources around Mitanni so they can build their Chariots early and often
The Ganzak city-state no longer has Horses or Incense
Added the Nineveh City-State, north of Babylon along the river
Troy now has a higher defensive flavor and a lower offensive flavor.
Minor tile additions near Athens and Anatolia passage
Silver located near Hittite starting location
Added tons of grassland and plains south of the Egyptian starting location along the river, included with new bonus and luxury resources.



Emergency Update - Version 2


Phoenician Trait: Naval units now cost 33% less gold to maintain, a Free Great Merchant appears when you research Currency, and Custom Houses now also grant +1 Gold, +2 Science, +2 Food.
Lydian Trait: Trade Routes now grant +1 Gold, Trading Post and Mines now also grant +1 Gold.
Mitanni Trait: Great General spawn rate increased by 50%, in addition to 33% land unit maintenance reduction.
Mitanni can now build Warriors
Mitanni now starts with a Warrior

Putmalk
Aug 27, 2011, 01:15 PM
Planned changes for Version 5 (not coming for a while)
Blog topic #1:

11-4-11

What's taking so long?

I took a really long break after Version 4 hit off around the beginning of September. College had started, and I was starting to get burned out by the scenario. I was unhappy with a few things, and instead of persevering, I decided to call it a day and leave the scenario behind to rot in the dust. I chalked it up as an accomplishment, as I was able to deliver a playable experience and share it with others. And I was content with that. Last week, however, I decided to give the scenario another shot. I wanted to complete this experience and finally make my entry into the modding community.

So, after I returned, I had numerous things to fix. My policies were broken and not fun. My scenario was too large and too peaceful. There weren't enough civilizations and I felt too restricted with the victory conditions. I felt like the gameplay got shallow towards the end and the tech tree needed improvement. So off to work I went! The minute I came back I explored every opportunity for me to improve. No area of the game was safe. I started off with new civilizations. With a bit of planning I managed to get them in, and I'm very pleased with the result. I feel like these civilizations are balanced and have unique playstyles.

I also decided to fix my policies. They were in a messy state following Version 4. So I did my best to overhaul them. First, I decided to complete the existing branches, finally adding Trade and making it fully functional. Then I noticed how sloppy Tradition was; that got changed as well and I feel the final result is much more coherent than before. Slavery was overpowered beyond belief; the amount of production a city could pump out was simply unacceptable. Slavery received a bit of an overhaul; I decided to slowly deliver the production and in smaller quantities, and in some cases focus on the infrastructure more. Polytheism was a mess; I didn't know where to go with this tree and it shows. The policies were disjointed and didn't follow a logical manner. I decided to can every policy and start from scratch. It now functions very similarly to Piety, but this is good. Firaxis isn't dumb and the results show in the playtesting. Monotheism was a bit tougher. I decided to remove the tree and have one true culture tree. This left an empty hole in the policies, so I filled it with a conqueror's branch. In these scenarios, you need to be strong. I used Autocracy as my base and I crafted the new Operations branch. It's similar to Autocracy but has a few changes, overall, it should be balanced. If I get any ideas, I'll stuff them in here. The last change I decided to make was to add a science tree. And thus, Philosophy was born, and stuffed straight between Polytheism and Operations. Philosophy is pure science, and it may actually unbalance the game, so heavy attention will be focused here.

I also added new techs were I felt the game was lacking. For example, there was no Farm bonuses. So I added Irrigation and Medicine, which both add output to Farms on rivers and away from rivers, respectively. Moving Code of Laws back to allow you to get Courthouses sooner, I slotted Ballistics in its place. I also messed around with many tech links; the new tree should be more logical to navigate but also better, gameplay-wise. You shouldn't be reliant on naval techs until the end of the tree, so if you don't like navy, you're not forced to tech them.

All of these changes just brush the surface of what I've done to this mod. After this patch, I expect the Mesopotamia scenario to be truly worthy of being a Civilization V mod.

I am in the processing of final playtesting. I hope to release this version soon!

CivOasis
Aug 27, 2011, 02:20 PM
No map.

Putmalk
Aug 27, 2011, 02:30 PM
No map.

It wasn't included in the zip file? This is wierd.

T_KCommanderbly
Aug 27, 2011, 02:40 PM
Played it and there was a map. You have to manually put it in the maps folder.

Anyways, it was fun. Didn't get too into it but I know some of the social policy branches were showing vannila civ policies, otherwise it looked good.

And do you plan to add a Isreal Civ?

Putmalk
Aug 27, 2011, 02:48 PM
Played it and there was a map. You have to manually put it in the maps folder.

Anyways, it was fun. Didn't get too into it but I know some of the social policy branches were showing vannila civ policies, otherwise it looked good.

And do you plan to add a Isreal Civ?

No, I'm sorry. Israel is way too close to Phoenicia. I would only add civilizations that make sense gameplay wise; Mitanni isn't very relevant (minus the possibility that they may have invented Chariot warfare) but gameplay wise they make perfect sense. Jerusalem is a high possibility to become a City-State, however.

What policy branches were showing vanilla civ policies? Honor is staying the same, Patronage has not been changed yet (sometime in a future beta patch), Commerce, Freedom, and Order have been disabled and I want to remove those policies (if I delete them however, the entire UI breaks). Any suggestions on how to hide them?

T_KCommanderbly
Aug 27, 2011, 02:55 PM
^Ya it was just commerce freedom and order. And I don't know how you would hide them, maybe plan up three more policy branches and just replace them (like you did the others), of course that is more work.

CivOasis
Aug 27, 2011, 02:58 PM
I think it's because I have the Cradle of Civilization DLC, and one of those is called Mesopotamia.

Putmalk
Aug 27, 2011, 02:59 PM
^Ya it was just commerce freedom and order. And I don't know how you would hide them, maybe plan up three more policy branches and just replace them (like you did the others), of course that is more work.

Well I had one more branch planned for the future, and that was Tactics, that would function like Autocracy and give a bonus to empires that want to war frequently.

Trade is going to be a hybrid of Commerce, and Trade.

I can't even think of what another policy's name or function would be, and I'm not about to add fluff for no reason. It's bad enough Monotheism and Polytheism are so connected (I tried to rectify this by making Monotheism benefit small empires and Polytheism benefit large ones).

I expect these two branches to change a lot. In fact, you may see a complete reversal of the trees: Polytheism offers straight culture in buildings and helps new cities out, and Monotheism offers enhanced Great People, Culture and culture building production.

I think it's because I have the Cradle of Civilization DLC, and one of those is called Mesopotamia.

My map is called Ancient Mesopotamia, though. Would it really conflict? I'll look into it, funnily enough, Cradle of Civilization is one of the few DLCs I don't have. Thanks for reporting the issue!

I believe you can safely rename my .civ5map file to Ancient Mesopotamia or something, as long as you can differentiate the two.

CivOasis
Aug 27, 2011, 04:08 PM
The file name was Mesopotamia, so that may have been the problem.
After testing it, the barbs might need to be toned down, I was having trouble fending them off in the ancient era.

Putmalk
Aug 27, 2011, 05:36 PM
The file name was Mesopotamia, so that may have been the problem.
After testing it, the barbs might need to be toned down, I was having trouble fending them off in the ancient era.

The filename has since been changed to Ancient Mesopotamia, and the scenario will be changed to Putmalk's Ancient Mesopotamia.

Did you adequately prepare for barbarians? Did you focus on warriors and archers or did you strictly go for civilian buildings?

CivOasis
Aug 27, 2011, 06:29 PM
A bit of both, and, honestly, I toned it down to Prince (I normally play on King or Emperor, and, if I have Germany or the Aztecs, might go for Raging Barbs..)
Even toning it down a bit from there, they're still common.
The problem seems to be ~5 encampments around Phoenicia's starting area.
Are encampments programmed in?

Putmalk
Aug 27, 2011, 06:38 PM
A bit of both, and, honestly, I toned it down to Prince (I normally play on King or Emperor, and, if I have Germany or the Aztecs, might go for Raging Barbs..)
Even toning it down a bit from there, they're still common.
The problem seems to be ~5 encampments around Phoenicia's starting area.
Are encampments programmed in?

No, completely random.

Check the planned future changes, Post #3.

CivOasis
Aug 28, 2011, 10:37 AM
How did you change the names of the natural wonders?

Also, would it be possible to add in the DLC ancient wonders?

Putmalk
Aug 28, 2011, 11:23 AM
How did you change the names of the natural wonders?

Also, would it be possible to add in the DLC ancient wonders?

I did a simple update to their names in the text files.

I will not be adding in DLC ancient wonders. I had already completed them prior to the DLC coming out, and I don't want to add another restriction to people wanting to play the game. If you see my code, you'll notice that I have deleted the DLC ancient wonders in order for this to be compatible with people who do not have that DLC.

I'm also balancing the wonders for how I want it, not how Firaxis wants it.

Putmalk
Aug 28, 2011, 02:03 PM
Version 3 is out. Patch notes in Post #2.

I appreciate any further feedback. Thank you!

Putmalk
Aug 29, 2011, 05:56 PM
Version 4 is now up.

This is my last version until I start getting some feedback. Other than that, I'll continue to playtest and tweak things for myself, but if nobody gives feedback, then I can't assume anyone is actually playing it.

This version comes included with a new civilization, the Medes. The Medes really help the gameplay, as they give Persia and Babylon someone close to fight and get mad at.

The Medes are fully playable.

CivOasis
Aug 29, 2011, 08:52 PM
Feedback, from version 2
Game's still not complete, but I chose Phoenicia, founded three cities.
Allied Damascus and Pelusium, defeated and puppeted egypt. Peltasts are awesome.
DOF with Greece. Mitanni were massive, but puppeted them. Now steamrolling an oversized Babylon. Turn 270-ish. Almost done tech tree (1 tech left).
Built ALL wonders...
One tech tree till Utopia Project
Thoughts:
My navy came in useful early-game, was pleased I actually could use them, even up through the conquest of Egypt.
Peltasts kick butt.
Axemen need an upgrade, catapults should run through to onagers.
Personally, I think the map and number of civs should be scaled up (seeing Medes above, good move)
I like the monotheism/polytheism branch. I think it should be 4 branches for Utopia, lower the culture output of buildings/policies, and give that kind of choice to every policy.
Same goes for the church/temple of the gods option.

I'll edit in anything I can think of later.

Putmalk
Aug 29, 2011, 09:10 PM
Feedback, from version 2
Game's still not complete, but I chose Phoenicia, founded three cities.
Allied Damascus and Pelusium, defeated and puppeted egypt. Peltasts are awesome.
DOF with Greece. Mitanni were massive, but puppeted them. Now steamrolling an oversized Babylon. Turn 270-ish. Almost done tech tree (1 tech left).
Built ALL wonders...
One tech tree till Utopia Project
Thoughts:
My navy came in useful early-game, was pleased I actually could use them, even up through the conquest of Egypt.
Peltasts kick butt.
Axemen need an upgrade, catapults should run through to onagers.
Personally, I think the map and number of civs should be scaled up (seeing Medes above, good move)
I like the monotheism/polytheism branch. I think it should be 4 branches for Utopia, lower the culture output of buildings/policies, and give that kind of choice to every policy.
Same goes for the church/temple of the gods option.

I'll edit in anything I can think of later.

This is what I need! Gracias!

Can you please tell me what difficulty you were playing on?

CivOasis
Aug 29, 2011, 09:14 PM
Um.. this'll sound pathetic, but chieftain.
I normally play at emperor, but, after getting swamped by barbs, I kinda thought, well, most of what I'll test won't be affected, why not make it easy on myself?
The only thing that should affect would be policy rate, wonders, and the ease of my military conquests, though, I believe...
Not the actual effectiveness of my military, etc.

Putmalk
Aug 29, 2011, 09:27 PM
Um.. this'll sound pathetic, but chieftain.
I normally play at emperor, but, after getting swamped by barbs, I kinda thought, well, most of what I'll test won't be affected, why not make it easy on myself?
The only thing that should affect would be policy rate, wonders, and the ease of my military conquests, though, I believe...
Not the actual effectiveness of my military, etc.

No problem. I appreciate the feedback. The red flag came up when I read "Built all wonders". :P

For the early barbarians, I've learned that to deal with them, the best way is to get axeman and ranged units (archers, slingers), as they will be able to cripple the Brutes enough.

Barbarian Axeman are the toughest enemies to beat, I'll admit, but usually a Chariot Archer is enough to tackle them.

The newest updates make Barbarian Axeman require Bronze Working and have 6 strength (so 9 strength vs. melee vs. 11) so you should have a slightly easier time with them.

And I suggest you spam settlers at the start and use up your starting happiness, or the AI will do it and swarm you.

CivOasis
Aug 29, 2011, 09:30 PM
Noted on the settlers, I saw how big most of the civs were. Mitanni and Macedon stayed small, but not the rest.
I ended up founding all my cities on the coast, and using triremes to pick off barbs, because my land units were to fragile. (This was during my emperor try).
Now that I remember- Peltasts also have a melee attack. Didn't strike me as a good idea, since there ranged is so much stronger.

Putmalk
Aug 29, 2011, 09:35 PM
Noted on the settlers, I saw how big most of the civs were. Mitanni and Macedon stayed small, but not the rest.
I ended up founding all my cities on the coast, and using triremes to pick off barbs, because my land units were to fragile. (This was during my emperor try).
Now that I remember- Peltasts also have a melee attack. Didn't strike me as a good idea, since there ranged is so much stronger.

Noted. Peltasts will not have a melee attack in the next update.

CivOasis
Aug 29, 2011, 09:48 PM
Noted. Peltasts will not have a ranged attack in the next update.

.. They're a ranged unit, according to the info. In fact, they're the only archer upgrade. Melee's what should be removed..

Putmalk
Aug 29, 2011, 10:03 PM
.. They're a ranged unit, according to the info. In fact, they're the only archer upgrade. Melee's what should be removed..

Melee, sorry. :)

It's kinda late. :(

christos200
Sep 02, 2011, 05:41 AM
Alexander Boring?

In my playthroughs, I've noticed a few things: AI Alexander never takes advantage of his unique ability that destroy city-states, even though he's pretty heavily weighted to want to kill them all. He ends up falling behind the rest of the AI and never reaches his full potential. I'm thinking there's a flaw in the game design here.

My ideas were to remove the Athens/Sparta/Agrinion city-states, rename them and place them elsewhere. Instead, I would create a new civilization called the Mycenaens and start them where Athens, Sparta, and so would be. Mycenae would have to be unplayable, they are simply too small to be fun to play. Mycenae would start real close to Alexander and most likely cause extreme tension with him. My question to you is, do you think this be fun? Would it be fun to conquer Mycenae instead of a bunch of random city-states?

In other news, it seems increasingly unlikely that AI Alexander has any idea of how to conquer the world, like real-world Alexander. And it seems as if no civilization will ever reach the potential they reached in the ancient times, unless you play on the really high difficulties (Immortal, Deity?). Is this good? Do you think such "balanced" play is fun? I mean, I can't think of any ways to make the AI play better. I'm trying tweaking the creation process to focus more on dominating opponents, but I don't think that is enough. I'd have to do a full playthrough to see.

1) Mycenaens were a civilization that were destroyed before classical times. After the classical time the greek political powers were:

Athens
Macedonia
Sparta
Epirus
Thebes
Thessaly

Sparta, thebes and athens were city states while macedonia, epirus and thessaly were monarhys.

2)philip, king of macedon, united greece with a union. So i think you should make macedonia to have bonus at the relations with the city states. With the help of the city states macedonia could expand in minor asia and persia lke in reality.

CivOasis
Sep 02, 2011, 02:44 PM
Wouldn't it be Ionian-era Greece, anyways?

Memlink
Sep 02, 2011, 04:49 PM
First off, Great game had lots of fun:goodjob:

Second, some feed back:
Lydia King difficulty
I expanded quick built 5 cities
built/rush built libraries in all and put specialists to work right away
entered classical era at turn 80, late clasical at turn 150 finished the tree around 230 (i built the great library and poped 2 great scientists for tech)
DOF with phoenicia and egypt for most of the game. The hittites backstabbed me twice and we stayed at war for most of the game. Alex built a HUGE army of hopollites and did nothing with them.
I like the slavey policy as a way to boost production. I only fully unlocked slavery and liberty but by the end i had founded 9 total cities and conqured (annexed) another 5 from the hittites and didn't really focus on culture untill after teching was done.

I think you should move the harbor to the early clasical era for easier expansion.


Anyway, great game again. I think i am going to try again as Phoenicia. Keep up the good work I look forward to version 5.

Putmalk
Sep 03, 2011, 01:51 AM
First off, Great game had lots of fun:goodjob:

Second, some feed back:
Lydia King difficulty
I expanded quick built 5 cities
built/rush built libraries in all and put specialists to work right away
entered classical era at turn 80, late clasical at turn 150 finished the tree around 230 (i built the great library and poped 2 great scientists for tech)
DOF with phoenicia and egypt for most of the game. The hittites backstabbed me twice and we stayed at war for most of the game. Alex built a HUGE army of hopollites and did nothing with them.
I like the slavey policy as a way to boost production. I only fully unlocked slavery and liberty but by the end i had founded 9 total cities and conqured (annexed) another 5 from the hittites and didn't really focus on culture untill after teching was done.

I think you should move the harbor to the early clasical era for easier expansion.


Anyway, great game again. I think i am going to try again as Phoenicia. Keep up the good work I look forward to version 5.

I appreciate such positive feedback. Thank you so much. :D

Stuie
Sep 03, 2011, 03:39 PM
Playing the Hittites and having a blast. Awesome mod so far. I'm playing Prince (usually play King for vanilla) and I'm having a not-so-easy time - which is good!

One comment: Lake Van (I think it's called...) has pearls and another resource present, but the tiles are lake tiles so you cannot access them. Was this intended?

Putmalk
Sep 03, 2011, 04:05 PM
One comment: Lake Van (I think it's called...) has pearls and another resource present, but the tiles are lake tiles so you cannot access them. Was this intended?

That was something I was a little iffy about. Can you build Work Boats in lake tiles? I was under the impression that you could. I'll check it out. Thank you for the feedback!

Numitor
Sep 13, 2011, 06:55 AM
Love this Scneario! :goodjob:

First report for little bit feedback: I Picked up Ramses first basicly becouse I wanted to see ambrox' great leader heads in action. Im playing on Prince, becouse I was reading Stuies comment befor starting. And - sorry to say - im playing on Marathon - it's the only speed I play. Just a sidenote on this: 400 turns are a bit less on Marathon and the years counting dont fit - I was in somehundredsomething A.D. at turn 400.

Beside this... humm.. what comments do you want/need? I love the scenario and I am now playing with turn limit turned off.

Barbarian hunting is fun to me. I really like it.

On Prince I got all Wonders I wanted for now (the first game was over to fast) ... AI Hiram took 3 as well.

I was a bit surprised getting camel archers instaed of horse archers, did not expect it this way.

Expanding looks running well for most Civs. Anyway Phoenicia dont expand, but Hiram is collecting wonders. It seems, Lydia dont expand as well, but Map is not explored there. Beside this, City states are living in danger. Babylon and Mitanni go for them in my game.

Alexander is visiting Minor Asia with his troups, but just for Barb hunting.

Putmalk
Sep 13, 2011, 01:03 PM
Love this Scneario! :goodjob:

First report for little bit feedback: I Picked up Ramses first basicly becouse I wanted to see ambrox' great leader heads in action. Im playing on Prince, becouse I was reading Stuies comment befor starting. And - sorry to say - im playing on Marathon - it's the only speed I play. Just a sidenote on this: 400 turns are a bit less on Marathon and the years counting dont fit - I was in somehundredsomething A.D. at turn 400.

Beside this... humm.. what comments do you want/need? I love the scenario and I am now playing with turn limit turned off.

Barbarian hunting is fun to me. I really like it.

On Prince I got all Wonders I wanted for now (the first game was over to fast) ... AI Hiram took 3 as well.

I was a bit surprised getting camel archers instaed of horse archers, did not expect it this way.

Expanding looks running well for most Civs. Anyway Phoenicia dont expand, but Hiram is collecting wonders. It seems, Lydia dont expand as well, but Map is not explored there. Beside this, City states are living in danger. Babylon and Mitanni go for them in my game.

Alexander is visiting Minor Asia with his troups, but just for Barb hunting.

The scenario isn't designed to be played on Marathon which will explain the years quirkiness. Plus, I guess the production values are all off as well as 400 turns being too low? That's why it's only designed to be played on Standard....

I wanted to keep the game as vanilla as possible, hence the Camel Archers instead of...say, Keshiks. (that may be changed in the next planned version, but I can't tell ya, I haven't worked on the scenario for about a week now)

Feedback I'm looking for?

Is the scenario fun to play?
Is there too much space between each civ (I will have no problems shrinking and redesigning the map if this is a major problem)
Are the units balanced?
Are there bugs that affect gameplay?
Do the civs feel balanced?
Are wonders useful?
Can you complete a culture game (see V5 patch notes)

Numitor
Sep 14, 2011, 01:57 AM
I was cross reading this thread twice now, but it seems, nobody reported. So I am not sure, if I am the only one with this happen: The victory progress screen dont show up. It is possible to click for it on menu, but nothing happens then. Is there any other way to get some information about cultural victory progress?

About the Marathon: production values are looking fine to me, I noticed nothing exceptional, arent they scaled in some "normal" Civ5 way? It's just the number in Year counter, so I can live with that.

Some more feedback, I will try to answer your questions.

Is the scenario fun to play?
=> Oh yes, indeed it is.

Is there too much space between each civ (I will have no problems shrinking and redesigning the map if this is a major problem)

=> Right now, I am afraid he answer is "Yes, Sir"! Its a problem, becouse... well, I always feel, AI's tend not to settle for a while if they lost a settler or got disturbed in settling process. And since there are tons of barbs...

Are the units balanced?
Hard to say right now. Its my second game, both I played as Ramses. But maybe they need some little corrections. It seems to me, *modern* units became to strong (Swordmen is way stronger then warrior for example).

Are there bugs that affect gameplay?
Just the Victory screen thing...

Do the civs feel balanced?
No idea for now, Hiram makes very good and Ramses may be overpowered with +1 Gold from farm. But I need to play more...

Are wonders useful?
Wonders feel ok to me. but again: I's my second Game with this mod and I'm not a strong player.

Can you complete a culture game (see V5 patch notes)
Still trying. Are these (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10830511&postcount=3) the V5 patch notes?

Putmalk
Sep 14, 2011, 06:06 AM
I was cross reading this thread twice now, but it seems, nobody reported. So I am not sure, if I am the only one with this happen: The victory progress screen dont show up. It is possible to click for it on menu, but nothing happens then. Is there any other way to get some information about cultural victory progress?

About the Marathon: production values are looking fine to me, I noticed nothing exceptional, arent they scaled in some "normal" Civ5 way? It's just the number in Year counter, so I can live with that.

Some more feedback, I will try to answer your questions.

Is the scenario fun to play?
=> Oh yes, indeed it is.

Is there too much space between each civ (I will have no problems shrinking and redesigning the map if this is a major problem)

=> Right now, I am afraid he answer is "Yes, Sir"! Its a problem, becouse... well, I always feel, AI's tend not to settle for a while if they lost a settler or got disturbed in settling process. And since there are tons of barbs...

Are the units balanced?
Hard to say right now. Its my second game, both I played as Ramses. But maybe they need some little corrections. It seems to me, *modern* units became to strong (Swordmen is way stronger then warrior for example).

Are there bugs that affect gameplay?
Just the Victory screen thing...

Do the civs feel balanced?
No idea for now, Hiram makes very good and Ramses may be overpowered with +1 Gold from farm. But I need to play more...

Are wonders useful?
Wonders feel ok to me. but again: I's my second Game with this mod and I'm not a strong player.

Can you complete a culture game (see V5 patch notes)
Still trying. Are these (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10830511&postcount=3) the V5 patch notes?

Yeah those are the patch notes. :) And about the victory progress screen, I don't even know what's breaking it. :/ I think what's breaking it is the lack of Apollo Program and United Nations and I lack the LUA know-how to fix it. I noticed it early on as well. XD

Thanks for the feedback.

Numitor
Oct 10, 2011, 11:14 AM
Any chance for new Version? You wrote about a new map with much larger Egypt - I am really nosy about this.

Some little feedback: I did not reach cultural victory, may be SoP or buildings need some twist there.

Not sure, if this is just your mod, but the Civs icons get mixed somehow. I don't know what it causes. In this pic CSt Niniveh declared war on Nebukadnezar, but Babylons icon is replaced by the hetite(?) Civs icon.

http://www8.pic-upload.de/10.10.11/b5494jgaokva.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-11636392/scen-symb1.jpg.html)

CivOasis
Oct 10, 2011, 12:02 PM
I know that glitch isn't from this mod, but I don't know what does cause it.

Kwadjh
Oct 10, 2011, 01:56 PM
Not sure, if this is just your mod, but the Civs icons get mixed somehow. I don't know what it causes. In this pic CSt Niniveh declared war on Nebukadnezar, but Babylons icon is replaced by the hetite(?) Civs icon.


I also experience this problem in my MOD.

It's just a conjecture, but it may be link to the number of playable civilizations in the scenario. Maybe if it's a huge map with usually 12 players and there is for example only 10 playable civilizations...

CivOasis
Oct 10, 2011, 02:00 PM
I also experience this problem in my MOD.

It's just a conjecture, but it may be link to the number of playable civilizations in the scenario. Maybe if it's a huge map with usually 12 players and there is for example only 10 playable civilizations...

I don't think so, I've gotten the glitch with 22 civs on a TSL map.

Kwadjh
Oct 10, 2011, 02:20 PM
Is a TSL map intended to play with 22 civs ? Is it possible that the glitch occurs in the case there is too few or too many civs ?

Numitor
Oct 12, 2011, 07:30 AM
Yeah, it may have to do with worldbuilder maps. I noticed the same thing on another map now, made in worldbuilder. :(

Putmalk
Oct 27, 2011, 04:56 PM
Okay so, it's been absolutely forever since I posted in any of the threads or any updates. There are a few reasons, I can just list them here:


College has become a big part of my life and my sole focus at this time. Thus, games and mods had to take a backseat.
Civilization V was boring me to no end and it became a chore just to load it up.
After playing this mod monotonously forever, I started to get bored with it and the scenario.
I felt there were inherent design oversights in the initial scenario that I would have to redo it, and I had no heart to actually do it.


In lieu of this, I've just completed the midterm portion of my semester and I want to start work on this again. A few things:


Expect a new scenario.
I expect to change a ton of things, top to bottom. This includes adding and removing units as I see fit.
I expect to finish the policy trees this time.
I expect to add a ton of new civilizations, and probably expand this out of Mesopotamia and into other areas around the Mediterrenean.
I will be looking at the tech tree and seeing how I can change it. I may decide to change the tech tree to feature less technologies, more expensive ones.


I look forward to continuing with this scenario and I apologize for completely disappearing.

Numitor
Oct 28, 2011, 08:09 AM
I want to start work on this again.
Yeah, great! I'm happy this mod don't follow other nice projects. :goodjob:

Expect a new scenario.

:cool:


I expect to change a ton of things, top to bottom. This includes adding and removing units as I see fit.
I expect to finish the policy trees this time.

Sounds good to me. Even if I would love more units (with upgrades - has to do with last point)

I expect to add a ton of new civilizations, and probably expand this out of Mesopotamia and into other areas around the Mediterrenean.

:king:

I will be looking at the tech tree and seeing how I can change it. I may decide to change the tech tree to feature less technologies, more expensive ones.

@Techtree: :goodjob:
But please *begging* don't make it shorter. :( I personally even would perefer the opposite - make it longer on start:

to make chariot warface become really important and powerfull until horseback riding/phalanx-warface
to add some bronce age warface and -trade
to add even more intersting, more different gameplay each time one play the mod
...


(Scenarios may be set on developed start then, if nessesary.)

Anyway, its great to see you back here. :)

Putmalk
Oct 28, 2011, 12:35 PM
Yeah, great! I'm happy this mod don't follow other nice projects. :goodjob:

I thought it would but my heart has changed its course. :)


Sounds good to me. Even if I would love more units (with upgrades - has to do with last point)

Some initial unit changes:
- Heavy Swordsman renamed Elite
- New unit: Helepolis (1 move, 1 range, 15 strength, 16 ranged strength, +100 vs. cities)
- New unit: Siege Ship (2 move, 3 range, 10 strength, 12 ranged strength, +100% vs. cities)
- Peltast now requires Ballistics
- Ballista now requires Ballistics (If Ballista isn't a unit in V4, it was added unto my build at least and now is being moved)

:king:


@Techtree: :goodjob:
But please *begging* don't make it shorter. :( I personally even would perefer the opposite - make it longer on start:


to make chariot warface become really important and powerfull until horseback riding/phalanx-warface
to add some bronce age warface and -trade
to add even more intersting, more different gameplay each time one play the mod
...



So far I've just moved Code of Laws into Classical and added a new tech, Ballistics, to replace it.

Lists like this are absolutely perfect for me when it comes to feedback. Exactly what I need.


(Scenarios may be set on developed start then, if nessesary.)

Anyway, its great to see you back here. :)

It's good to be back. College still takes priority, however.

Putmalk
Oct 28, 2011, 05:58 PM
Been hard at work with some new additions.

Rome and Sumeria have been added. No I will not be adding Nubia. Carthage is the next civ I'm working on.

Unit Hierarchy:


Melee
Warrior -> Swordsman -> Elite
Axeman -> Swordsman -> Elite
Spearman -> Heavy Spearman

Ranged
Archer -> Peltast
Slinger -> Peltast
Chariot Archer -> Horse Archer

Mounted
Horseman -> Clibanarii

Siege
Catapult -> Onager
Ballista
Helepolis

Naval
Trireme -> Quadquereme -> Quinquereme
Siege Ship

Italicized units never go obsolete.


Unique Units:

Spearman:
Hoplite (Greeks)
Immortal (Persians)
Vulture (Sumerians)
Shukuthlu (Mitanni)

Swordsman:
Auxilia (Rome)

Elite:
Legion (Rome)

Archer:
Bowman (Babylon)

Chariot Archer:
Three-Man Chariot (Hittites)
Mariyannu Chariot (Mitanni)

Horseman:
Companion Cavalry (Greeks)
Skirmisher (Medes)

Clibanarii:
Noble Cavalry (Lydia)

Great Merchant:
Trader (Phoenicia)


Here is the planned policies for the current NYI Trade branch.
Feedback wanted.

Trade

Opener: 25% Gold in the Capital.
Diplomacy: Quantity of Resources gifted by City-States increased by 100%. 50% Happiness from gifted Luxuries.
Tax Collectors: Every Citizen in the Capital produces 1 Gold.
Bribery: 25% more Influence from Gold gifts. In addition, City-States decay 20% faster for rival civilizations.
Sea Trade: Coastal Cities provide +2 Gold and +2 Production.
Alliances: Friendship decays 33% slower than normal. Militaristic City-States produce units twice as fast when you are at war with a common foe.
Finisher: City-States produce 25% of the Science they produce for themselves, and luxuries provide +1 Happiness

Putmalk
Oct 29, 2011, 12:21 PM
Another update.

I've been doing a lot of thinking. By the next release of the mod (can't give an ETA, sorry), it will be a somewhat different experience. Aside from all the bugfixing, new units and civs I've added, I'll also be scrapping the original scenario. Instead, my plans are currently:

- Revert Macedon back to Greece. This will allow me more flexibility.
- Create all new scenarios based off of historical events/battles. My current plans are:

Mesopotamia (Greece, Hittites, Medes, Babylon, Sumeria, Egypt, Phoenicia, Lydia, Mitanni)
Alexander's Conquests (Greece, Achaemenids, Egypt, maybe others?)
Punic Wars (Rome, Carthage)
Persian Expansion (Achaemenids, Babylon, Medes, Lydia, etc.)


My goal is to mod the four different game speeds and add my own if necessary. Each scenario will have its own game speed, turn count, and map. They'll use the same tech tree, some scenarios will have a locked tech tree and others will have slowed research paces. The scenario can also be played on a random map, but I have to redo city-state names to allow this. It'll be a process, but I'm confident I'll get it done. Sometime.

CivOasis
Oct 30, 2011, 06:15 PM
Could you save the original, and just add new ones?

Putmalk
Oct 30, 2011, 06:30 PM
Could you save the original, and just add new ones?

Of course. There's a backup for everything. The new map will be clearly labeled as new.

If you want the original map, I'll be more than glad to provide it, but it will use a new time scale (300(250?) turns, 2000 years, 3000 B.C.).

Policies
So far:

1. Trade is in, completely functional.
2. Updated Tradition, untested.
3. Work will begin on Polytheism/Monotheism. In fact, this'll take a while. I'm thinking about removing them, and making a Tactics/Religion tree.

Putmalk
Nov 01, 2011, 05:17 AM
Updates:
- Greece has been removed from the Mesopotamia scenario. This was a pure gameplay decision. It removes the empty left side of Africa and takes away an extremely isolated Greece (Greece was more isolated than Egypt, and it was affecting the gameplay).
- As such, the map has been cropped to a square 50x50. Now that doesn't sound like that much, but when you play it, it feels perfect. This is the map size that I'm happy with. Every civilization starts out relatively close to one another. This is good for a gameplay scenario of 250 turns.
- There will be one scenario of each kind. TSL location, random resource allocation. This will make a different gameplay experience of each kind. There will be no random location map. At this time, at least.
- Work has begun on the Punic Wars scenario. It will be extremely different than the Mesopotamia scenario. While the Mesopotamia focuses on getting the highest score possible, the Punic Wars is about pure domination. You have 100 turns to take control of the Mediterranean and conquer the enemy capital. This will be easier said than done. The cities will be tough and the AI gets all their little production/happiness bonuses. You will play as either Carthage or Rome, and Greece will be an unplayable civilization. You start with a ton of technologies, but the research pace is slowed so you shouldn't be able to research many more. Research wisely. You won't have access to the best combat units (Siege Ship, Helepolis, Clibanarii, Elite, Quinquereme) unless you really plan to get to them. You most likely will not be able to get them all.

Screenie updates.
1. Turn 101 of my little playtest. I'm playing as Sumeria, a brand new civilization. You may notice artwork from the Wonders DLC. Do not worry. This DLC will not be required to play the scenario. I've included that artwork into my custom atlases. Here I started out and began to rapidly expand, preventing Media and Babylon from doing much off the start. King difficulty. On higher difficulties Sumeria will probably be really hard to play, especially against Media's Great Generals (they attacked me and did some damage).
2. Screenshot of Lydia, same playtest. They're expanding quite nicely towards the Hittites (they have no other direction to go). Once they meet, I fully expect them to declare war.

3. Civilopedia of the Sumerians. Listed on the side are all the civilizations currently present in the mod. Credit to Firaxis for the artwork/pedia entries.

4. Helepolis pedia entry. The Helepolis is the strongest siege unit in the game, capable of a 32 attack against cities (yes, 32). But it moves 1 turn at a time, with a 1 range. It's 20 strength makes it hard to take down with melee units as well. These things are really expensive, however.

5. Qanat's new icon. From the Wonders DLC. Enjoy. The old icon sucked anyway.

6. Hannibal's pedia entry. Artwork credits to ambrox62. Uses a custom DOM image (I used ambrox's Iberia leader for the image) and his Iberia's Diplo screen image. I made a custom map for the menu.

7. Fully completed top 5 policies. The bottom 2 are next on my list. I still don't know what to do with them yet. Still planning this out. You may notice some icon changes. They are to better represent the policy's function.
Tradition: Focuses on culture and the capital.
Liberty: Focuses on expansion and happiness.
Honor: Focuses on military and experience.
Slavery: Focuses on production and maintenance.
Trade: Focuses on influence and gold.

Proposed new bottom 2 (feedback?):
Tactics: Focuses on military and strategy (strategy resources, etc.)
Religion: Focuses on culture and tall cities.

8. Code of Laws' new spot on the tree, plus the new tech, Ballistics, replacing Code of Laws' old spot. Ballistics' icon is terrible. I've been really lazy with those since I got back. It's placeholder.

Moriboe
Nov 01, 2011, 01:02 PM
Looks great! Unfortunately I don't own any DLC, but might consider buying for stuff like this!

Putmalk
Nov 01, 2011, 06:27 PM
Looks great! Unfortunately I don't own any DLC, but might consider buying for stuff like this!

Words of kindness. Keep your eyes open, the next version may come out sooner than I expected.

I updated my Version 5 notes right now. I may decide to include Punic Wars as well.

O.O. Howard
Nov 01, 2011, 08:39 PM
I find Civ5 mods and scenarios disheartening. :sad: They are usually in need of upgrades and implementing those involves the user deleting things, or they promise more and more but because of that they never get finished, or Firaxis changes the game and it messes up the scenario, or the scenario designer walks away with fatigue or a busy life.

But this second try "Ancient Mesopatamia" bears watching. A fresh restart... building from the wisdom gained on the first try, and keeping the scale small and more 'do-able' and finishable before the inevitable fatigue and busyness sets in... maybe this one time I will be glad to download a Civ5 scenario. Lets wait and see.

Putmalk
Nov 01, 2011, 09:19 PM
I find Civ5 mods and scenarios disheartening. :sad: They are usually in need of upgrades and implementing those involves the user deleting things, or they promise more and more but because of that they never get finished, or Firaxis changes the game and it messes up the scenario, or the scenario designer walks away with fatigue or a busy life.

But this second try "Ancient Mesopatamia" bears watching. A fresh restart... building from the wisdom gained on the first try, and keeping the scale small and more 'do-able' and finishable before the inevitable fatigue and busyness sets in... maybe this one time I will be glad to download a Civ5 scenario. Lets wait and see.

Excellent point.

Versions 1-4 were beta for me...Version 5 is like "Final release beta" in which case afterwards will be the full release of the game. I'm learning more and more of the process everytime I open up my program, and I'm learning more about creating a fun experience.

I definitely agree with the small scale of things. I think I tried too big and got too caught up with "realistic environment, open world, etc." and didn't realize how it negatively affected gameplay. So, I scaled back to see how I could simplify things. For example, Mesopotamia now only is a Time victory. This makes thing so much easier. I don't have to worry about a Culture victory, and it still makes fun gameplay: get the largest score. You could still accomplish this by building a large empire, or building Wonders and staying small. This mirrors history a bit more than "capture all the capitals" and stuff. Plus I find it better and more immersive that way.

I'm still adding new stuff, but just to enhance the experience and remove some unbalances - I know for a fact it was possible to get cities with ridiculous defenses and it was impossible to siege...well, now you can, with the help of Helepolis to aid your attack.

I look forward to the release of V5, which will come shortly after I finish the policies.

Putmalk
Nov 03, 2011, 12:02 AM
Will be adding a new tech called Irrigation, which grants the Civil Service farm bonus and access to the Aqueduct.

Pouakai
Nov 03, 2011, 12:11 AM
If you don't know, there is a sound file for three technologies within the files that aren't used - one of which happens to be Ballistics (The other two are Publishing and Calculus) - while the quote might not be era specific, could still be good to use!

Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?

Putmalk
Nov 03, 2011, 11:51 AM
If you don't know, there is a sound file for three technologies within the files that aren't used - one of which happens to be Ballistics (The other two are Publishing and Calculus) - while the quote might not be era specific, could still be good to use!

Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?

I'll keep that in mind. I know that Ballistics was an unused technology because it crashed my text file when I accidently overrid it. >.> I didn't know there was a soundfile.Thank you.

Putmalk
Nov 04, 2011, 08:31 PM
I updated the blogs to include one blog post. I'll just copy/paste the text here so if you want to read it, you can. Most of the changes discussed in this blog are in the updated patch notes.


11-4-11

What's taking so long?

I took a really long break after Version 4 hit off around the beginning of September. College had started, and I was starting to get burned out by the scenario. I was unhappy with a few things, and instead of persevering, I decided to call it a day and leave the scenario behind to rot in the dust. I chalked it up as an accomplishment, as I was able to deliver a playable experience and share it with others. And I was content with that. Last week, however, I decided to give the scenario another shot. I wanted to complete this experience and finally make my entry into the modding community.

So, after I returned, I had numerous things to fix. My policies were broken and not fun. My scenario was too large and too peaceful. There weren't enough civilizations and I felt too restricted with the victory conditions. I felt like the gameplay got shallow towards the end and the tech tree needed improvement. So off to work I went! The minute I came back I explored every opportunity for me to improve. No area of the game was safe. I started off with new civilizations. With a bit of planning I managed to get them in, and I'm very pleased with the result. I feel like these civilizations are balanced and have unique playstyles.

I also decided to fix my policies. They were in a messy state following Version 4. So I did my best to overhaul them. First, I decided to complete the existing branches, finally adding Trade and making it fully functional. Then I noticed how sloppy Tradition was; that got changed as well and I feel the final result is much more coherent than before. Slavery was overpowered beyond belief; the amount of production a city could pump out was simply unacceptable. Slavery received a bit of an overhaul; I decided to slowly deliver the production and in smaller quantities, and in some cases focus on the infrastructure more. Polytheism was a mess; I didn't know where to go with this tree and it shows. The policies were disjointed and didn't follow a logical manner. I decided to can every policy and start from scratch. It now functions very similarly to Piety, but this is good. Firaxis isn't dumb and the results show in the playtesting. Monotheism was a bit tougher. I decided to remove the tree and have one true culture tree. This left an empty hole in the policies, so I filled it with a conqueror's branch. In these scenarios, you need to be strong. I used Autocracy as my base and I crafted the new Operations branch. It's similar to Autocracy but has a few changes, overall, it should be balanced. If I get any ideas, I'll stuff them in here. The last change I decided to make was to add a science tree. And thus, Philosophy was born, and stuffed straight between Polytheism and Operations. Philosophy is pure science, and it may actually unbalance the game, so heavy attention will be focused here.

I also added new techs were I felt the game was lacking. For example, there was no Farm bonuses. So I added Irrigation and Medicine, which both add output to Farms on rivers and away from rivers, respectively. Moving Code of Laws back to allow you to get Courthouses sooner, I slotted Ballistics in its place. I also messed around with many tech links; the new tree should be more logical to navigate but also better, gameplay-wise. You shouldn't be reliant on naval techs until the end of the tree, so if you don't like navy, you're not forced to tech them.

All of these changes just brush the surface of what I've done to this mod. After this patch, I expect the Mesopotamia scenario to be truly worthy of being a Civilization V mod.

I am in the processing of final playtesting. I hope to release this version soon!

Putmalk
Nov 05, 2011, 06:50 PM
Version 5 has been completed. Playtesting is under way. It is still subject to tweaks before my release.

Release will sometime in the week of Sunday, November 6 - Saturday, November 12. November 10 is my birthday so maybe I'll release it then. :P

Putmalk
Nov 07, 2011, 05:42 PM
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11030679#post11030679

Reporting to close this thread. I appreciate all feedback and interest from the Beta process. I hope you enjoy the full version! I spent a lot of time on it. :)

Closed. Please use the link from above.