This is a revival of a succession game concept created by Sirian and never played out to completion. The rules are as follows:

Originally posted by Sirian

Our Objective in this game IS TO LOSE. That's right, we're going to win this (we hope) by "losing" the game! :lol:


BIG BROTHER! Game Concept.

We are Romulus, of the Romans. Our objective is to seek out the Lost Tribe of our brother Remus, then bend our entire civiliation to helping him win the game! Like any good Big Brother, we love our Little Brother to death and would do anything for him, including playing second fiddle to him in his hour of glory.


BIG BROTHER! Rules of Play.

1) All Victory Conditions enabled. However, anything OTHER THAN a Space Race victory by our "Little Brother" civ, will be a defeat.

2) First Civ we meet is Little Brother.

3) What Little Brother wants, Little Brother gets.

* Any demands he makes are granted.
* Any deals he offers of his own spontaneity are taken (no matter what!).
* Any tech we acquire that he doesn't have, we offer to him (by the end of our turn, doesn't have to be immediately), then accept the deal he offers us. If we don't like the deal, then just GIVE him the tech.
* Any resources he lacks, we must offer to supply to him. We will take whatever he offers in return. If that's not good enough, just GIVE it to him for 20 turns.
* Any resources we need, we look to Little Brother to supply for us, and pay whatever price he asks (if we can't afford, then we must wait). ONLY if Little Brother does not have any of that resource to offer, are we allowed to look elsewhere for a supply.
* Any and all deals we wish to offer, we must take what he offers in return. Map deals, etc.

4) Little Brother's Birthday! At the end of each player's turn, they must bestow a gift upon our Little Brother. Try not to spoil him! (No giving away cities, nor exorbitant amounts of cash, make it a reasonable gift).

5) Nobody Picks on Our Little Brother.

* Anybody who declares war on our Little Brother, we immediately declare war on them AND MAKE AN EFFORT to go help.
* We do not make peace with the offending civ until Little Brother first makes peace with them.
* If one of Little Brother's cities is captured, we must make an effort to liberate it, then give it back to him. ONE of the enemy's cities must also be razed in retaliation. We do not rest until this is done.
* If Little Brother loses a city, we will found a new one on the same spot and give it to him (unless he takes care of it himself before we can arrive). THREE of the enemy cities must be razed in retaliation! (And we do not rest until it's done).
* We do not sign MPP with Little Brother UNLESS HE ASKS. (We do not want to drag him into any of our wars).
* We sign any Alliance he proposes.

6) We do not pick on anybody who leaves our Little Brother alone, UNLESS they start a spaceship. Anybody who threatens to steal Little Brother's glory by launching sooner, they have to be "roughed up". Get the picture? (Roughed up, not exterminated. OK?) EXCEPTION: anybody who nukes our Little Brother has CHOSEN UNWISELY and shall be obliterated. Genocide. :skull:

7) Nobody pushes us around. We don't cave to threats, ever. (Unless it's Little Brother flexing his muscle, then we go along).

8) If Little Brother declares war on us, we defend ourselves, but never attack his cities. Whatever he wants for peace is OK, too, EXCEPT FOR cities. We don't give him cities. (Even beloved little brothers need some limits set now and then).

9) We want to maintain Gracious relations at all times, if possible, with our Little Brother. (Will take time to get to that point, but once there, we want to stay there).

10) We must build the Intelligence Agency at the first opportunity and plant a spy in every civ (including Little Brother -- hey, we've got to keep tabs on him!) This is so we can monitor the space race and "intervene" if necessary.

11) We must either build, or destroy, the UN. (Unless Little Brother builds it). We want to bury the vote, as our objective is a most glorious space ship launch by our little brother.

12) Obviously, we must prevent any other civ from winning, with all the options on the table!


The one change to the above rules is that I generated a random player civ, which came out to be China. Otherwise the game will be played under exactly the same design.

Map: Large, 70% water, Custom* Pangea
Climate: Standard everything
Barbarians: Random
7 AI Opponents: all of our best friends, consisting of Cleo, Joan, Tokugawa, Bis, Hammurabi, Cathy, and X-Man
Difficulty: Emperor
Version: PTW 1.14f
(I have customized the map myself to make sure it is a "real" pangea and the AI civs have decent starting positions)

Unlike the original RBD19 game, turns will adhere to the standard 24/48 rule, with flexibility for personal issues that may come up. First turn should be played until we make contact with another civ or 20 turns, whichever takes longer; after that, 10 turns per player. The map has been designed so that we can make contact with a variety of civs depending on which way the first player chooses to explore, so it should be interesting! Because of customizing the map, of course, I will be going last in the turn rotation.

Roster:
T-Hawk
Sirp
Speaker
voodoocat
Sullla

Here's the save file and a picture of our starting position:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_start.jpg

RBD19 start (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_start.zip)

This game is running under the RBD heading as a way of paying tribute to the original game. Good luck to all of our players!

I didn't get a chance to post this - I was going to suggest creating a custom civ of Canada for the game. Because, what have the Canadians ever won besides a bunch of icy Olympic sports, but they're friends of almost everybody. :)

Anyways, I get the leadoff spot, including the initial exploration and picking of the Brother? Cool. I can play sometime tonight.

This will be my first ever game with the Chinese. Start us off well T-Hawk!

Ah! Hey, cool concept. Hrmm. Seems... slightly familiar... :D

Hey, I said it was your idea! :)

If you need another player, I'm in. I like the concept.

Here we go!

4000 BC: The worker moves onto the bonus grass, which reveals a forest-game. So the settler moves one square west. Beijing is founded in 3950 BC, and the worker moves onto the game to start clearing the forest. Research to Pottery at max, as usual.

I decide to send the first exploring warrior.. south. The land looks more fertile that way, while there's jungle to the north. The second warrior completes only two turns later when the forest chop finishes (I forgot we were industrious - too much time with the Naked Vikings), and he goes north; let's see who finds somebody first.

A third warrior is ordered up for police duty, since the city will be growing quickly now with the grassland-game. After that, the Pyramids as prebuild for the granary.

In 3300 BC, our southern warrior meets our Little Brother!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbd19-brother.jpg

As per the rules, we offer Xerxes our technology, which is Warrior Code. He offers his 10 gold for it (but not his Bronze Working), which we accept. Little Brother is still annoyed with us, though.

In 3000 BC, Pottery has finished. And we give it away - Happy Birthday Xerxes! Now he's polite, which is good.

Back at home, Beijing is set to finish the granary in 5 with growth in 6. The worker will finish mining this turn, which will get the granary in 4; see if you can get the growth to speed up and come one turn after the granary.

There's three luxuries one city-length away from Beijing, in different directions. What to research is up to the next leader.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbd19-3000bc.jpg

The southern warrior is playing hide-and-seek with our Little Brother. How cute!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbd19-3000bc.zip

(IT) 3000BC: What to research? I choose The Wheel, at max science.

(1) 2950BC: blah.

(2) 2900BC: ...

(3) 2850BC: ...

(4) 2800BC: We build a granary in Beijing. I go for a warrior, and then we'll get a settler.

(5) 2750BC: warrior built, we start on a settler. Unit costs kick in. We need our second city. The warrior is sent East, to discover more land near our capital

(6) 2710BC: Our warrior in the north sights brown borders.

(7) 2670BC: ...

(8) 2630BC: We make contact with the people of Russia. They have Ceremonial Burial, and Bronze Working, same as Persia, but lack Masonry. Now I understand that in the case of resources we would have to wait until we have something to give our little brother in exchange for them, but for technology we are under no such restrictions, and so can trade Russia for one of their technologies. I trade Bronze Working for Masonry.

(9) 2590BC: ...

(10) 2550BC: Beijing builds a settler. I set it to build a spearman but next ruler can veto. I suggest sending the settler north, since there's some decent land up there, but I don't move the settler so the next ruler can move him at their discretion.

Good Luck!

-Sirp.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-2550BC.zip)

EDIT: I forgot to give our little brother a gift! Please remedy my carelessness by giving him 10 gold straight away. I hope he will forgive me having forgotten his birthday!

And hmm...that's going to almost completely drain our treasury :)

Xerxes is our Little Brother?!

:lol: :rotfl: :lol:

I had no idea; we would have found someone else if T-Hawk had gone a different direction. Is it just me, or does anyone else think WE may need protection from our little brother? Speaker, make sure you show some love :love: to our brother X-Man at the beginning of your turn for his birthday celebration. :bday:

One thought: we will have to join Xerxes in every war he starts. :eek: This could get pretty hairy!

voodoocat has been filled into the open spot, with roster adjusted in the first post.

T-Hawk
Sirp
Speaker <<< UP NOW
voodoocat <<< on deck
Sullla

Did Z-man get masonry?

If possible, could I please switch positions with Voodoocat? I am swamped with school work for the next two days and do not want to hold up the game this early.

X-bro? That's positively criminal! :lol:

I think you guys are LITTLE brother who are going to abused by Big Brother - Jerkes :rolleyes:

Heh - is the game considered a success for us if Xerxes wins by domination? :)

Xerxes didn't have Masonry on my turn, not sure if he does yet - if he doesn't, give it to him for his birthday.

Got it

2550 Preturn. Birthday was not forgotten. Sending settler south for incense... it will bring great smells to the homes of our chinese people.
Spear order is good.
enter

2510BC (01) - warriors scout. blind move from fog misses whales to the west. We still get fish.
2470BC (02) - Shanghai founded on incense.
2430BC (03) - spearman stays for mp while settler is ordered. Luxury moved down to 20%.
2390BC (04) - Still only behind CB.
2350BC (05) - The people of Beijing are happy from the incense.
2310BC (06) - We meet the French... they have Alphabet.
2270BC (07) - Our scouts see 5 dyes a little ways away. Persia has IW.
2230BC (08) -
2190BC (09) - MM Beijing back to forest for growth in 2, settler in 2.
2150BC (10) - Settle Canton. We discover the wheel. Trade TW and Pottery to France for Alphabet. Trade Alphabet and TW to little-bro for CB and IW.
X-Man is Cautious after his 15 gold gift. Happy Birthday


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-2150.jpg


RBD19-2150BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-2150BC.zip)

This game looks a lot more like a "builder" game than the world that our Naked Vikings inhabited! Have fun building some more cities on this seemingly huge continent, Speaker. :D

And just look at how advanced our Little Brother is! Together with our Chinese people, the Persians are leading the way forward in the quest for knowledge which will one day take us to the stars. We praise the scientific efforts of our Little Bro X-Man! :grad: :love2: :grad:

I'm thinking this is a building game too. If we get a good strong core with good defense our little brother shouldn't antagonize us.

Got it. Would someone care to make a dot map before I play my turn (which will probably be tomorrow afternoon)?

X-man as the little brother ?
Excellent, this is going to make this real fun! love it....
:lol: :rotfl: :rotfl: :lol:

IT- Draw up a tentative dotmap as follows:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-2150BCDotMap.jpg

As a food rich city, I choose not to overlap beyond three squares in Beijing. Red dot will be the first city founded to claim the Iron and get the furs online, and Blue dot will be second. I anticipate our capital being moved to red dot at some point, hopefully not to far in the future. This will allow us to make a much expanded core. Pink dot can be shifted one tile northeast if so desired. It loses 5 tiles to overlap where it is, but can quickly bring the two BG squares into use. Depending on how the next bunch of turns end up, this dotmap can be expanded upon.

2130BC (1) Beijing builds Settler which heads toward Red Dot. Warrior called up between Settlers. Cathy has Mysticism, and I trade her Alphabet and Iron Working for it and 10 gold. If I don't give these to her, our little brother will. I trade Tokugawa Pottery for 20 gold. I offer Mysticism to our little brother and he offers 20 of his 23 gold for it. Aww, how nice of him. He is annoyed with us for reasons unknown. I now run science at 90%, with a deficit of -1, Horseback Riding due in 16 turns.

2070BC (2) Shanghai Spearman => Warrior.

2030BC (3) Beijing Warrior => Settler. Japan starts Pyramids.

1990BC (4) Joanie's borders spotted northeast of Russia. Nanking founded on Red Dot and starts on worker (can be vetoed if so desired, but since we are industrious, I suggest we take advantage of this trait and get roads built.

1950BC (5) Furs come online. We are now able to run at 90% science and 10% luxuries, with a loss of 1gpt, Horseback Riding due in 8 turns. MM Beijing to grow and build Settler in 2 turns.

1910BC (6) Move worker toward our next city site. We really need more workers.

1870BC (7) Beijing Settler => Warrior. Right now, it is possible to get a Settler and Warrior out of Beijing in 6 turns, oscillating from size 6 to size 4. The next player might want to check if Beijing can switch from size 7 to size 5, and produce the Settler without the Warrior in-between. This should help our gold as well. French start Pyramids.

1830BC (8) Russians start Pyramids. Contact made with Bis to our east. Naturally, he is annoyed. He has 4 cities other than Berlin to our 3 (4th due in three turns), and 18 gold. He is behind us by Alphabet and is the current score leader with 179. We are in last with 143 and our little bro X-Man is in second to last with 157. This seems a little curious to me. Most curious, however, is that everyone seems to have Contact with Bis. Am I expected to believe that on the last turn, he moved a unit next to every single Civ? I am fairly certain that you can trade contact before writing. Am I wrong here?

1790BC (9) Beijing Warrior => Settler. I decide to trade Bis Alphabet for 18 gold. We will have a monopoly on Horseback Riding very soon (and then will have to share with our loving little brother) and nothing to trade it for, so hopefully Bis can develop something new soon. The tech pace has slowed down dramatically.

1750BC (10) Canton Worker => Temple. I anticipate some forestry operations here, so the time to build the temple will be reduced and I don't want to waste shields building another worker. This can be vetoed if so desired. Worker moves onto spices to bring them online. Next turn, Beijing should have one of its mined grassland tiles switched to a river forest tile, and the Settler will be finished in 2 more turns right as the city grows. Horseback Riding is finished in 4 turns. The Settler should found where he is. For his birthday, I give X-Man a lavish gift of 11 virgins (or gold). He upgrades to Cautious.

Conclusion- The spearman is currently fogbusting in the south, for lack of anything better to do. I might have sent a Warrior instead, but the Spearman will hold up better against Warrior attacks in the wild. We should probably try to find Persia at some point, just to know where they are. I would recommend upgrading the tiles around the city founded next turn before moving onto a new city site. With 2 BG nearby, this city can become quite productive for us very fast. It might also be a good idea to send the Warrior who is right there into the for in the north to push it back and make sure there are no Barbarian camps. I haven't seen a single Barbarian, so I don't know if they are turned on, but in any event, it will be a good idea to push back that fog. Continue to expand rapidly Sulla!

RBD19 - 1750BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-1750BC.zip)

Oh, I just realized that this game is Emperor and not Deity. This makes a whole lot of sense. That extra Settler really gives the AI a HUGE advantage.

Hoo boy, we got lots of room to expand here! I expect things to get pretty darn "interesting" in the Middle Ages though once the land grab gets done. Between refusing all tribute demands and having to aid X-Man in his wars, this might not be too peaceful of a game. "Got it" and will play tomorrow morning; hopefully I won't get hit with turns for this and RBE6 at the same time. We'll see.

I've got a lurker question - not a criticism, just a question. I've been watching along and I am not sure why this dotmap is best. Before seeing this one, I would have put the blue dot one space directly south. The same with the red and pink. I do see that my way puts cities on cleared land, and yours clears two jungle. IS this just a matter of personal preference?

The black zones may also show that one way was better than another, but we don't know that now and can't plan on anything. Can someone comment? Thanks!

(0) 1750BC Change nothing, looks good.

(1) 1725BC Between turns Xerxes demands 22g from us. Our beloved Little Brother is flexing his muscles! :love: We lovingly hand over the gold that he requests, hoping that this will be the start of even greater relations between our two nations. "We accept your gift. You shall live," is the response from Little Brother. He's so cute! :love:

Tsingtao founded in the recommended spot, goes to work on granary (we've got plenty of settling still to do).

(3) 1675BC Settler produced from Beijing, it heads north since there is some pretty nice land up there. France has Writing and Communication with 2 more civs this turn; we will get Horseback Riding in 2 more turns ourselves and should then be able to make some kind of a deal.

(4) 1650BC Find Persia's borders to the south. Not entirely fair, because I did know where that starting position was located, but we would have found them sooner or later. Just like when Sirian plays a shadow epic, you cannot make yourself "forget" spoiler information.

(5) 1625BC Horseback Riding discovered. Joanie isn't willing to part with Writing at those monopoly prices, so I trade them Horseback Riding for Contact with Egypt and Babylon. Normall I wouldn't give up our monopoly on HR, but we are going to lose the monopoly anyway when we trade the tech to Little Brother. Egypt and Babylon are both backwards. We then end our turn by offering Horseback Riding to Little Brother; what's that? You'll offer 30 of your 36g for a tech @3rd civ price? That sounds fair to us! We love you, Xerxes! :love: Max research on Polytheism; 27 turns at 0gpt.

(7) 1575BC Since Shanghai is high shields, low food, I set it to a barracks with the plan for it to provide defense for our cities in the near future. Little Brother, in his scientific genius, has discovered Writing this turn! :goodjob: And since he lacks contact with so many other civs, we will be happy, nay OVERJOYED to learn the secrets of Writing from Little Brother for Contact with the Russians and 90g (his offer, not mine naturally). Then we offer Little Brother contact wit Egypt - what, you'll pay 40g? Anything you say, Little Brother! :love: How about contact with Japan? 20g is fine with us! And for contact with Joanie? 18g is more than enough. We are so overjoyed to be dealing with Little Brother instead of these vile other nations that we give him a 5g present for his research efforts. Little Brother goes to polite and thanks us for the gift! [party]

(8) 1550BC Something I forgot last turn; we spend 42g to build an embassy with Little Brother. He has 2 spears in Persepolis, no luxuries :cry:, the city is size 2 and working on the Oracle (45 turns). At least Little Brother is researching something at 100% rate! We see no need to establish embassies with any of the other nations at this point.

(9) 1525BC Xinjian founded in the north, getting us both horses and iron. Another settler produced in Beijing, which heads east to found in an as-yet unidentified spot.

(10) 1500BC Nothing significant happened this turn, except the borders of all AI capitals expanded, trapping our exporing spear in the borders of Little Brother. Xerxes gets a gift of 11g to end my turn, since we had 51g and we want to take that to a nice even number.

Easy expansion game for the moment, just keep it nice and easy and continue to feed Little Brother techs. I'm going to make a dotmap for our large open territory and post it right beneath this.

RBD19 1500BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_1500BC.zip)

I placed a bunch of cities on this map, T-Hawk should feel free to revise as desired. Xinjian would make a good FP location if we adhere to this dotmap. The black "x" are wasted tiles on this map; it generally follows a very nice 21-tile spacing except where considerations of bonus food tiles and freshwater come in. The black dot in the northeast was a mistake and should be ignored.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_1500BC.jpg

[Lurking] Looks like you guys have a fun game going here. If you all need another player at some point, I would be interested in joining if you would have me.

Sulla, hope all is well with you. If you recall, I was part of your emporer traning game this past summer. I got away from C3 for awhile, but am re-addicted now. :crazyeye:

I will be out of town next week, but will be following along with interest as best I may. [/Lurking}

Got it, will play shortly.

Quite an ambitious dotmap; we'll see how far we can push it :)

I figured I might as well draw it up out to cover a lot of ground, and then we can see how much of that we get. Fortune favors the bold, after all. :)

Originally posted by Ridgelake
Sulla, hope all is well with you. If you recall, I was part of your emporer traning game this past summer. I got away from C3 for awhile, but am re-addicted now. :crazyeye:

Ridgelake! :D Glad to see that you are back, and no I haven't forgotten anyone who was on the team in the good ol' days of SUL4. I hope that you have been well, and that you'll stick around as long as this game continues to be entertaining for you. :king:

Looks great guys. The dotmap is ambitious, but I think we should be able to manage something pretty close to it.

ukrneal: in answer to your question, dotmaps are largely a matter of playing style, however Speaker's dotmap does have much going for it: the blue dot being to the south would have meant it was in the middle of the jungle, unable to be productive until workers arrived in the region, or its borders expanded.

The red dot could go well in either position: both locations are on fresh water, the major consideration here.

As for the pink dot, moving it one space south would put it on a bonus grassland. Unless there are much bigger fish to fry (i.e. there's cattle, wheat, fresh water etc in the area), I would really avoid founding a city so as to lose a bonus grassland. Additionally, founding on the coast (even the coast of an inland sea) is an advantage to founding inland.

-Sirp.

Inherited turn:

Any particular reason we're researching Polytheism at max? We should be speeding up the Republic branch! We're not religious, so Monarchy won't be worth anything for us. But I can't bring myself to waste five turns of max research (~100 gold value), and there is a fair shot we'll get it first, assuming Mysticism hadn't been around for long before Sulla bought it from Cathy on his first turn. Research increased from 90% to 100%; if we're going to go for this we should GO for it.

Beijing swapped to a barracks and MMed to finish it in two with growth also in 2. If it's going to build military between settlers, and it looks like it has to since it can't do better than 6 turns per settler but can produce much more than 30 shields in 6 turns, it may as well build veteran military.

====

Little happened. In 1350 BC, Chengdu was founded on Dirt-Colored Dot to the far east. It's next to a forest-game, and should build a worker, chop the forest, then build a granary. This city will have to be a settler producer for this area. (Too bad it'd take forever to get irrigation over to the game - this lake is NOT fresh water.)

10 gold is all we can afford to give X for his birthday.

I sent a worker south to build a road over to Persia. He'll take a while, but it's a project that needs to be done eventually, and it'll also help settlers that go down that way. Xerxes might not have any coastal cities, so we can't count on a harbor trade route for some time. Go due south with the road, right over the mountain (we are industrious.)

The settler in the north should settle Yellow Dot, just east of that cow. Then the two workers there should get irrigation over to the cow.

Japan has a monopoly on Mathematics. We can probably trade Polytheism for it when we get it in 5 turns.

Shanghai needs MM attention to complete its granary just before it grows (switch it from forest to plains eventually.) Xinjian should be allowed to grow to size 3 before completing the granary.

I wsa thinking about trying the Pyramids, considering how many cities we're going to have, but it's probably too late with five other capitals already building them.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbd19-1250bc.zip

In answer to your question, we're researching Polytheism so we can trade it for other techs. There's no way to tell which of the pre-Republic techs the AI civs would have gone for, and I was trying to research one that they would ignore. I guess I'm too used to Deity games where you let the AI civs do all the researching for you. :p Sorry that I didn't head immediately for Republic, I know that government is your big thing.

And by the way, now that you have finished you turn here, you are up in RBE6 T-Hawk. Maybe we should shuffle the turn order around some; it is strange passing off to the same person in two different games at the same time. :hmm:

Looks like I was too slow to defend myself, but I think Sirp stated my thinking as well as I could have. Nice job so far guys. Keep it up! One point I'd like to make though: it seems to me that the worker making a road to Persia is being wasted. We only have 4 workers total, and a ton of city sites that we should get roads to as soon as possible. I don't know if we can afford to spare 25 percent of our workforce at the moment. Is it because we need to trade him luxuries as per the variant rules?

Have Voodoocat and I changed places permanently, or was it just for the first round? Sulla, since you are the captain of the game, it's your call.

Bah, getting to Republic sooner is worth the possibility that you'll have no competitive commerce advantage to show for your research efforts. I like going for Philosophy, since the AI usually picks Code of Laws first.

I'm fine with the turn orders where they are; it's easier for me to keep track of things following you in both games :)

got it!

Speaker: I will investigate the thing with the worker and make a judgement call.

-Sirp.

We'll get more workers. Our first-ring cities are finishing their granaries, and then they can build whatever workers they need.

Sending a worker to Persia might help more than you think in this unique game. The sooner he gets supplied with our MANY luxuries, the faster he can pull ahead in tech. It's not required by the variant rules, but I think it's a good idea - and it definitely fits with the spirit of the game. :) Also, the road will connect us with Babylon and whoever else is down there.

This game isn't about us. It's about our darling Little Brother! We do what HE needs! :D

Early: Ok, I decide to modify our dotmap in the north a little. It'll waste some tiles, but I can't resist having a city on fresh water, with three bonus food tiles in range.

Tientsin founded in the south, Hangchow in the north.

Middle: We discover Polytheism, trade around for tech parity, give it to our little brother. Also trade for world maps, but we can't get our little brother's

Japan threatens us. We don't bow to threats! They back off.

Later: Russia threatens us. We still don't bow to threats! They declare war! Crazy Cathy strikes again. Production shifted towards mixed: some troops, still some settlers/workers.

Our warrior up north pillages a wheat tile near Moscow.

The French discover Philosophy, which we're researching, on my last turn.

I give our little brother 14 gold for his birthday.

I think if we hold out a little against the Russians they'll be willing to talk terms of peace. I guess I did push the northern expansion rather aggressively.

-Sirp.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-1000BC.zip)

At war with Russia? Things become interesting already! Building a road to Persia is not mandated by the variant rules, but I like the idea behind it. Little Brother has no native luxuries and we want to supply him with some EVER so badly! :love:

The switch between Speaker and voodoocat was intended to be a one time thing, although I certainly understand your reason for asking. We'll keep to the original roster posted:

T-Hawk
Sirp
Speaker <<< UP NOW
voodoocat <<< on deck
Sullla

Okay, got it. Will play this afternoon.

IT- Turn off in-game music. Sorry guys, but after so many hours of gameplay, I can't take any more of it.

975BC (1) Shanghai Warrior => Archer. Settlers move toward spots. Warriors continue to explore. Trading around our WM allows us to continue to run science at a negative income. I will be trading WM every turn. Babylonian WM gives us a clear view of pretty much the whole continent.

IT- Russian archer destroys one of our warriors who is trying to pillage. Beijing Horseman => Settler.

950BC (2) MM slider to give us 24 extra gold as Philosophy is discovered this turn. Pillage one mine/road near Moscow.

IT- Warrior in Russia kills one attacking Warrior, upgrading to Veteran but then is killed by second attacker.

925BC (3) Philsophy => Literature, due in 12 turns at -4gpt. Chose Literature over Currency because the AI seems to value it more and it is cheaper. Nanking Archer => Settler. This war will be over soon. Tatung founded on Teal dot. I offer Philosophy to our little brother and he so graciously offers his WM (he has no money). Our poor little brother is so darn cute. The remainder of the continent is revealed. Persia will have Incense and Furs when all is said and done, and still has a lot of land that they can claim. With all this new map information, I trade our WM again, netting a decent amount of cash. We now have 69 gold in the bank, which will be plenty to research Literature at the current deficit.

900BC (4) A Russian spearmen has been playing hide and seek around Nanking, daring me to attack it, while it hid on the mountains and forest. It finally comes out into the open, on our fur tile. Our horseman and archer combine to take him out and both live. Macao founded on Green dot, claiming the Dyes. Russia still will not acknowledge our emissary.

IT- Japanese start the Oracle.

875BC (5) I finally talk to Cathy and in return for peace, I demand Minsk and Tblisi....and she agrees! Thanks Cathy.

850BC (6) Beijing Settler => Spearmen. Forbidden Palace is now available. Shanghai Barracks => Spearman. This can be a military factory for us for the near future. Tsintao Settler => Temple. Tientsin Worker => Temple. Paris builds Pyramids and Persepolis cascades to Oracle.

825BC (7) Canton Warrior => Granary (can be vetoed). Iron is hooked up. Our little brother blocks our road, so our worker cannot continue to bring irrigation down to Tientsin. How cute.

800BC (8) Xinjian Granary => Worker. We are now number 1 in the World Ranking with a score of 346. Our little brother is second with 344. Isn't that special? We are pulling away in power. Persia now has Currency at a Monopoly.

775BC (9) Beijing Spearman => Courthouse (as a prebuild for a Library (or the great library if the next player feels Saucy)). Nanking Settler => Temple.

750BC (10) Shanghai Spearman => Spearman. Anyang founded on Red Dot. Starts work on temple to bring BG into range. For X-Man's birthday, I give him a gift of 10 gold. Don't spend it all in the same place X-Man!

Conclusion- Persia, France, Germany, and we are the tech leaders, with Persia slightly ahead by Currency. We will have Literature in 4 turns. I suggest getting libraries all around as soon as possible (cities currently building temples could be switched to libraries), since we might just be doing our own research for much of the game. I have left two settlers heading north. The topmost is intended for orange dot, while the lower settler (right next to Beijing) can be placed wherever the next player wants. I would probably recommend dark blue, with two more settlers filling in purple and the other orange (next to black) dot. After that, we will have filled in all the potential city sites, only losing pink dot to the babylonians, although Uruk is far away from their core and could be taken whenever we wanted (if the variant rules allowed it). Once we have temples (or libraries) built to fill out our borders we can then continue to build up our military and infrastructure. Good luck to Voodoocat.

PS- I changed Chengdu from a Granary to a Temple on my last turn because I don't want any other cities encroaching upon its area and it desperately needs the BG nearby. Oh, and I left it up to Voodoocat to decide what to do with the two captured Russian cities. Tblisi will be difficult to defend since it is so far away. I would probably recommend disbanding it. Minsk is fairly close to the top of our land however, and should probably be kept. Both cities are size 1 with only Chinese citizens in them (not sure how this happened) and no previous culture, so they are not going to be flipping any time soon. Russia is seriously screwed right now.

RBD19-750BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-750BC.zip)

Got it

Preturn: I think keeping the cities got in the trade are fine for now. May be hard to defend but we can make a decision later. Could always give as a gift to little bro for his birthday.

730BC (01) Send settler to dark blue.
710BC (02) Babylon settles uruk near tatung.
690BC (03) Settle Shantung on orange. MM to get 24 g with Lit in 1.
IT: Lil' X wants to trade TM's with us. Sure thing little bro. Egyptians get Lit a year before we do.
670BC (04) Offer X Lit and he gives us 70g and his WM. Start Max research on Republic cause we will have libraries online soon.
IT: our cities previously Russian build warriors. Set to build spears.
650BC (05)
Xinjian continues to make workers
630BC (06) - I :whipped: 1 in Chengdu for a temple that was due in 20. It's close to borders so we need the culture.
610BC (07) - Finish road from Tientsin to Tatung. Should have irrigation there soon. France got Lit. We couldn't afford to trade her for currency. It was a pretty small window.
Finish library in Beijing and Republic goes from 26 turns to 22 turns.
590BC (08) - Irrigation reaches Tatung and the people celebrate
570BC (09) - Shave another turn off of Republic. France, Persia and Egypt are in the Middle Ages
550BC (10) - Settle Chinan. Little Xerves is growing up. :bday: I give him 20 g and our WM for his birthday.

The 3 remain ahead by currency and construction. I dunno if the Republic gambit will work. I've shaved 5 turns off the research. We should have libraries soon which will shave off more. We should be able to trade to get us into Mid Age. And we'll have republic ta boot.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19BBC.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-550BC.zip)

Both cities are size 1 with only Chinese citizens in them (not sure how this happened) . . . .

I think that when you acquire cities during peace negotiations, their populations convert to your own. Hope this helps. You guys seem to be off to a nice start here. Keep up the good work! :goodjob:

@Reagan: ah, that explains it. Thanks for the info.

@Voodoocat: Uruk was settled by Babylon during my turn. I wrote about it in my conclusion.

T-Hawk <<< on deck
Sirp
Speaker
voodoocat
Sullla <<< UP NOW

Thanks for the heads up ("got it"). We are still #1 with Little Brother #2 on the histograph - exactly the way we want it! Here's a current map of our territory:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_550BC.jpg

Might I recommend a temple before Beijing grows? The spearman to be finished next turn could be delayed by building the temple first. At 10spt (with mm), Beijing can build a spearman in 2 turns.

Dirt colored dot?!? :lol: I don't think I've ever seen a need for one of those. Ambitious dotmap indeed. :D

Of course, I have made some big dotmaps, too, but I always just reuse one or two colors for all the sad sites we won't reach for 4000 years. :)

Dirt colored dot?? :rotfl:


Oh, and :bday: naMxXxMan :bday:


:lol:


- Sirian

Dirt-colored dot is indeed priceless. :) At the time I was thinking, "MS Paint has a lot of colors, why not use as many of them as possible?" :lol:

The dotmap was indeed ambitious but with Russia pretty crippled by war (one they provoked, no less) we stand to get almost every location on that map, and possibly even a little bit more. My suitemates are throwing a big drinking party here at the moment, and I don't drink - but I won't be able to get to sleep either for the next few hours. Might as well play through my turn now before I start pulling some of the late-night sleep-deprived weediness. :smoke:

I spent a couple minutes trying to figure out what to call that dot, too. "Well, it's not really tan... Brown? Nah, the one farther north looks more brown and I don't want to confuse anybody." *stares out the window for a moment* "Got it!"

:D

When I stare out my window, all I see is snow.....I would have been helpless.

(0) 550BC I need to veto a couple of things I don't like. First of all, there's still more land for us to grab out there, so we need a city producing settlers. As the only city with a granary, Beijing is nominated for the task (switched to settler). Shangahi will get a fish when its cultural borders expand; it needs a temple more than a library so it can begin growing again. Canton library is good, so long as it goes to military next to start defending our territory. Xinjian to courthouse; this will be our FP city and so it needs to get started NOW rather than in a few dozen turns. I would rush it if I could, too bad we're still in despotism. Chengdu is too corrupt under the current government to build a granary, it will just pump workers instead. Hangchow is so corrupted that a library does us no good; it needs a courthouse first which will increase production and commerce by about 50% (like a library and factory combined). Too many of our workers are out on the periphery of our civ; we need some more improving tiles in the center of our land. Actually, we need more workers period, but that's another story. :) Nothing much diplomatically, Cathy won't give us Construction even for 3 other techs. What, did we do something to you? Oh wait, yeah we did. :D

(3) 490BC Kaifeng founded in a slightly overlapping position, but one that reclaims some lost tiles and some coastal ones. It should make a nice fishing village in the future.

(4) 470BC Canton finishes library, starts barracks to pump military, which is sadly needed almost everywhere. A lot of library/temple builds will be finishing soon and should think about producing units.

(5) 450BC Russia settles right where I was planning to head our next settler unit. Oh well (shrug). We'll have to get our last city sites in the rugged northwest part of the continent.

(6) 430BC Nanking builds its library, starts a much-needed spear. Hangchow finishes its courthouse, starts a temple to get some culture up there.

(9) 370BC Egypt completes Colossus, massive cascade in effect. Beijing produces last settler/spear grouping, which load onto a galley for the trip north. Ningpo founded, not quite in the location I wanted, but gaining us a little bit more land. We had two borders expand this turn, filling in large unoccupied holes in order borders. Went from #3 in land to #1 by a large majority (over 30 tiles added just from 2 border expansions!)

(10) 350BC Little Brother discovered The Republic this turn. While we are glad that he learned the secrets of this new government, we wish that he had waited four turns to do it so we could have reaped the benefits first! Other than that, a quiet last turn. X-Man gets a free copy of our world map and 7 shiny gold pieces for his birthday this turn (since we are rather strapped for cash).

The next player will see us discover The Republic and spend much of their turn in anarchy. There is a worker in the south building a road to Persia who is almost done; we should trade away our excess incense to Little Brother, and if he won't give us anything good for it, then simply GIVE him the luxury. We also should sign a permanent ROP with him sometime soon, just because we love him that much. :love: Xinjian is about halfway done its courthouse (very much a possible whip) and then should start in on the Forbidden Palace. I had a lot of our corrupt cities producing workers this turn (we needed them and still do); as always, feel free to veto where appropriate. Placement of our last city with the settler on a galley is up to T-Hawk. This has been a very pleasant building game so far, and along with Persia we are still dominating the histograph. That's what we want to see! :D

RBD19 350BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_350BC.zip)

EDIT: From the original dotmap, we got everything except the light green dot that Babylon grabbed from us and the infamous "dirt-colored" dot which Russia settled on my turn. We picked up another spot in the northwest though and we have another settler there en route as we speak.

If another civ comes after us, we can pick off a city or two of theirs (NOT their whole civ though; that would be against the idea of the game. Just snip off an outlying colony so they get the idea.) If other civs leave us alone though, we leave them alone. Unless, of course, they mess with Little Brother. :die:

Oh, I never mind playing through the anarchy on the way to Republic. :D

BTW, I settled on the dot that I called dirt-colored; it's Chengdu. I guess Russia took what I was thinking of as brown dot (it's the one overlapping with black dot?)

Maybe now I'm just seeing spots... :crazyeye:

Anyways, got it, should get to play tomorrow.

Heh, glad to see the Persian Road project that I started is coming to completion - and I get to be the first one to play with it :D I think we should, if possible, keep a couple of horsemen along the road to defend it if necessary until we have a secure sea trading route (which can't get broken.)

Inherited turn:

I definitely agree with Xinjian as the FP location. Also, I don't think it will pay to whip the courthouse; the city will take too long to make up the growth since it's only got 2-food tiles, and the happiness hit will also prove problematic. Cash rushing the courthouse will be worthwhile, though. I think the city could've built the FP just as fast straight-up without a courthouse (it can't swap now since it got some forest shields), since getting into Republic should get Xinjian decently under 50% waste. Xinjian will also get another bonus grassland online in 3 turns when Canton expands and fills in the borders.

100% science will get us Republic a turn sooner; let's do it! :)

Beijing changed to worker; it is one of our few high-food cities, and it'll earn back the food during our anarchy. Nanking changed to worker; it's right at size 6 which is the best size to build workers. Canton will build a worker after this spearman.

Sulla left me Anyang about to riot. Fixed; it'll have to run a tax collector.

Tatung, Tientsin, and Hangchow are building temples just for the border expansion. Why not make them libraries instead. Only 20 more shields, and we get better culture (our national culture isn't great) and some helpful beakers.

I talked about defending the Persian road, but I didn't realize that Persia and us had cities built right up to each other. Never mind. :)

=====

330 BC: Bismarck has gotten Republic (and Monarchy, which he probably researched and traded.) We could research Republic in one turn now, but I'll buy it to make sure we get our chance to trade it around. Xerxes will teach us the Republic for our map and 80 gold - sure, bro! :love:

Joan will offer less than her 44 gold for Republic - so she'll have it very soon; buying it now was the right move. We trade it around to accumulate Monarchy, Currency, Construction, and about as much cash as we paid. Then we gift Currency to Catherine to advance her an age (hey, nothing says we can't be nice to Little Brother's crazy great-aunt), so we can trade the two government techs to her for Monotheism. Little Brother and Bismarck have Feudalism, which we can't afford.

4 turns of anarchy; that's fine with me.

=====

250 BC: We're a Republic. We need 10% luxuries, mostly to keep Xinjian producing at full tilt. We can't afford Xinjian's courthouse this turn, but we can next.

Lots of aqueducts are ordered.

Beijing can produce workers every two turns in steady-state; I'll let it do that for a little while.

230 BC: Xinjian's courthouse rushed for 104 gold. Forbidden Palace started, due in 30 turns.

Our road to Persia is complete. I ask Little Brother what he would like for Feudalism: Incense, Dyes, 29 gold/turn. Sure, bro, whatever you want!

210 BC: Doh, Russia founded a city where I was going to put our sailing settler. So I unload him in a different place. It and a different Russian city have an iron tile in cultural-dispute territory; I don't expect to win this clash but it'll divert some Russian resources.

And the minute I did that all the settler pairs that were roaming through our territory turned around and went home. :)

=====

Nothing else happened. THIS is the sort of game I wanted when I signed up for the Naked Vikings. :aargh: :) Xerxes gets a nice big $20 check for his birthday!

I build a good 10 workers or so, but we still want more with all that jungle.

What we need now is IRRIGATION. Lots of it. Every remaining grassland square in our core should get irrigated. Getting that population up is what will pull our economy out of neutral gear (we're only making 34/turn).

The workers on the other side of the mountain from Nanking are there to bring irrigation over to Anyang and Chengdu - they'll need it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbd19-150bc.zip

Yes, I know that this game is turning out is turning out to be what we wanted for RBE6. I didn't expect us to start out crammed in a sardine can with India, having to fight for every inch of territory; what happened to all of the open land in that game? Do you realize that the map setting for the Naked Vikings was PANGEA? Map generator -> :smoke: [pimp] It was 80% water, true, but we still shouldn't have ended up with a freaking archipelago map!

This map is nice and friendly because I edited it to be that way; cut out all of the offshore islands to get a true pangea and axed some ridiculous starting positions (Japan and Egypt would have started three tiles apart with an enormous open space south of France in the original configuration). Oh yes, and I moved our starting position too; we would have started out about 6 tiles due east about where Uruk is on the map. Russia's start had to be fixed up also; Cathy was supposed to start in an extremely low-food mountainous region in the northwest. The more I play this game, the more I distrust the map generator; the only way to get an even, balanced result is to customize the map yourself. :rolleyes:

T-Hawk, I can't seem to download the save file and I couldn't find it in the uploads folder. Could you post it again so that Sirp can download it? :)

T-Hawk
Sirp <<< UP NOW
Speaker <<< on deck
voodoocat
Sullla

Very nice turns T-Hawk. :goodjob: Masterful trading.

Yeah I can't see it on the file server either.....

Waiting for T-Hawk to upload it again.

-Sirp.

Oops, figures that the one time I didn't test the download link would be the one time I forgot to upload the file. :crazyeye: It's there now.

(IT): Ok with all these GPT payments, I figure we're not going to be able to do any meaningful research off our own bat for a while, so I set us to no science with a scientist, researching Chivalry.

It'd be real nice if we could get these wines up near Paoting.

(1) 130BC: Beijing builds a worker. Set to build a marketplace. Tientsin is switched from a library to an aqueduct. Hangchow is switched from a library to a marketplace, since I think that'll be more beneficial in the near future; it'll give us less culture, but we'll live with that.

(2) 110BC: Ok so our little brother has engineering. I think we'll wait until either other people have more cash to pay for it, or they research it so we can get it from XMan nice and cheap.

(3) 90BC: blah.

(4) 70BC: Tsingtao needs an entertainer. Its temple will come soon.

(5) 50BC: blah

(6) 30BC: Hangchow completes its marketplace. Now it starts building a library.

(7) 10BC: hmm...little XBro has been marching a whole lot of his cute little immortals somewhere. It's all very cute, but now they've entered our borders and are coming towards Chengdu.

(8) 10AD: The Babylonians build the Great Library, and the cascade takes out the Great Lighthouse, in Germany.

XMan starts marching immortals into our territory in full force now. It's nice of him to want to come to visit, but I can't help feeling a bit uncomfortable about all these guys with huge swords.

(9) 30AD: Whew, XMan's immortals turn in the other direction from Chengdu. Looks like they're marching north, I suspect XMan might have had a disagreement with his crazy aunt Cathy, and is going up there so settle a score. We'd better be ready for the outbreak of war with Russia then.

(10) 50AD: ok Beijing has got its marketplace, so I set it to building a horseman.

I give XMan 67 gold pieces for his birthday.

The tech pace has slowed, with me doing nothing to speed it up. I'm pretty happy with the world tech pace going slowly: it gives us some time to develop a powerful infrastructure and pay off our debts before returning to full-fledged research. Our income has increased substantially: we now have a 69gpt surplus, and that's with the 29 gpt payments to Persia still ongoing, and me having to increase the luxury rates by 10%. Once we have marketplaces in major cities, and if we can trade for another source of luxuries, we should be able to nix the luxuries slider completely.

the Forbidden Palace is due in just 11 turns. Once we get that, our economy will be powerful.

Good Luck!

-Sirp.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-50AD.zip)

Hey... you're in AD times now. Don't you think X-bro is tired of always getting socks on his birthday? (petty cash, WM) Isn't it time to get him something special? Like... throw a surprise party with some more serious gifts for once. Maybe half a dozen workers or something? :lol: After all, he did cut you a nice deal for Feudalism!


- Sirian

Well he did get 67 gold, not 10! :)

But yeah, it might be time to start giving him something that's seriously meaningful to us. 6 groups of slave workers huh? Complete with the finest women of China for his harem perhaps? He is getting to be a big boy now and does deserve big-boy gifts.

Us giving him workers would also really help compensate for the AI's lack of worker-building; it'd be a good way to make sure he's a real world power.

-Sirp.

Don't go too crazy.. he's not that big of a boy. There's no doubt he's growing up but I think he's a little young for a harem.

Little boys who get 6 slaves for their birthday invariably use their Immortals to carve up their older brother's cities. Got it, by the way.

Keep in mind that we were researching in despotism, and our income was commonly 0gpt or negative. We couldn't exactly afford to give out large chunks of moolah under those conditions without going bankrupt. Now that we're in a republic, we should be able to shower Little Brother with some better stuff. :)

Map in 50AD:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_50AD.jpg

IT- MM Nanking to grow in 3 and build temple in 5. Switch Tientsin to Granary from Temple. Granary will finish in 8, with growth in 9. Borders expand at Uruk. I really hope those Immortals are not headed toward our cities. We have absolutely no hope of defending ourselves against them.

70AD (1) France and Egypt now have Engineering. I dial up our little bro and ask what he would want for it. He only requires Spices, our WM, 11gpt, and 580 gold. Thanks X-Man, that will work just fine. Bis gives his WM, 50 gold and 7gpt, Toku gives 18 gold and 2gpt. I hold off on trading to Cathy and Hammy because they only offer 5 and 30 gold each. MM Beijing for more efficient growth. Our little bro now has Invention as well but will not trade it. MM Nanking for more efficient growth.

90AD (2) Canton Aqueduct => Granary. Tsingao Temple => Marketplace.

IT- Our little Bro builds the Hanging Gardens in Gordium. How sweet. I didn't even know X-Man liked gardening.

110AD (3) Hangchow Temple => Pikeman. War is imminent with Russia due to our little brother's cute little aggression. We should have our border cities defended. Our little bro now has Theology. Don't know how he got it so fast. Ah, it seems that Cathy researched it and then traded it to X-Man for Invention. Joanie has it as well. A brokerage opportunity presents itself, but the price is a bit too high. I don't really want to buy Invention @3rd at this point.

IT- Babylonians start Leonardo's Workshop. Russians start Sun Tzu's and Leo's. French start Sistine.

130AD (4) Beijing Horseman => Horseman. Nanking Temple => Horseman. Chinan Worker => Temple.

150AD (5) I still hold off on Ivention and Theology.

IT- X-Man starts Leo's.

170AD (6) MM Nanking, Xinjian, Hangchow, and Beijing for more efficient growth. Dyes and 29gpt deal expires with X-Man, so I ask what he wants for Invention. I am a little unsure of the rules here. They say that if we need a resource, and our little brother has it, we must trade with him. It also says that if we have a tech that he does not have, we must off it to him. It does not, however, say that we must get all of our technology from him. Proceeding under this understanding, I trade X-Man 33gpt, dyes, and 418 gold for Invention and then turn around and trade Invention to Cleopatra along with 2gpt, for Theology. I then trade theology to Bis for 4gpt and 70 gold and no one else has much of anything to trade. I apologize if I misinterpreted the rules, but to deprive ourselves of brokerage opportunies doesn't make sense to me.

190AD (7) Beijing Horseman => Pikeman. Nanking Horseman => Horseman. Hangchow Pikeman => Granary. Granary should be rushbought in 4 turns. Macao Worker => Temple. X-Man has Chivalry. We will finish it in 25 turns. Actually, since Bis lacks Iron, I trade him one of our spares for Chivalry, which he has also discovered/bought. Cleopatra offers 10gpt and 29 gold, and I take it. It is a shame to waste all those turns of our scientist, but it would be a bigger shame to wait 25 more turns, especially since we got it for free (more or less). If again I am misinterpreting the rules, and should be going to X-Man for tech, please tell me. The rules are not clear. I put the scientist to work on education.

210AD (8) Oops Tblisi goes into disorder. That city is so far away, I didn't pay it any attention unless its worker had to move. Tientsin Granary => Temple. Tatung Temple => Barracks. Palace expands and gets a nice walkway. I upgrade two Horsemen to riders in preparation for the upcoming war with Russia (and because we are making 81gpt). MM Canton for more efficient growth. X-Man now has gunpowder.

IT- Our little bro demands our TM and 22 gold. Sure thing little brother, whatever you want. X-Man has 24 Immortals currently in our territory, plus a handful of assorted units. This really goes to show how stupid the AI is. Rather than attack us, or Babylon, who are right next to him, our little bro has spent 20 or so turns moving his slow units all the way across our territory to get to Russia.

230AD (9) Canton Granary => Marketplace. Minsk Worker => Barracks. Forbidden Palace finishes in Xinjian, which starts a Marketplace. Our income is up to 111gpt.

250AD (10) Beijing Pikeman => Rider. Tblisi worker => Barracks. MM Beijing for more efficient growth. For X-Man's birthday, I give him a extra special gift of $50 to aid the war effort. He has not yet declared on Russia, although his units have entered Russian territory at Riga. I have left two Riders near Shangtung with movement still left, and a horseman near Riga with movement left, for the next player to decide what he wants to do with them. All in all, a pretty uneventful turn. The entire world is at tech parity, with Persia ahead by Gunpowder. We lead the histogram with 813 pts, and our little brother is second at 773. Russia is second to last at 611, and will probably be squashed pretty quickly. Good luck to the next player.

RBD19, 250AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-250AD.zip)

Will play and post tonight.

Preturn
Everything looks good.

IT: Kaifing builds aqueduct>barracks. Palace expansion.

260AD (01) - Nothing new. Just work the land.
IT: Nanking Rider>Rider. Tatung Barracks>pikeman. Ningpo harbor>library.
270AD (02) - Still no new techs learned
IT: Hangchow builds granary>barracks. Tsingtao Marketplace>Rider. Shanghai builds mp>harbor
280AD (03) - Same old
IT: Little brother is a tad annoying. Takes forever for him to march his little immortal toys through our living room.
Kaifeng builds Barracks>MP
290AD (04) - X sure values gunpowder. Wants basically all we that we have
IT: Beijing Rider>Rider, Chengdu Aqua>Library, Hangchow Barracks>Library
300AD (05) - Little bro has many friends. He has ROP with Russia, France, Babylon, and Egypt. Egypt has GP. Decide to go ROP with little bro. He only wants 16 gold and WM
IT: Germany offers to trade TM. OK. Xinjian builds MP>Pikeman. Paris completes sun tzu's. Little X builds Leo's
310AD (06) - X offers to take 944 gold and 7gpt for Gunpowder. He has chemistry too. 3 gunpowder in territory needs road. Trade gunpowder to Japan for gems, WM and 62gold. Tax rate 0% MM a couple cities and change a couple to temples. +211 gpt
IT: Nanking builds rider changes to cathedral. Tientsin builds Temple>mp. Tantung pikeman. Babylon builds sistine.
320AD (07) - Rush Temple to avoid disorder in Beijing
IT: Little bro wants to fight the French. Aww.. Beijing builds temple>rider, Shanghai Harbor>Rider
330AD (08) - Moving troops towards france. Declare war on sis Joan. She broke the head off of little x's GImmortal Joe.
340AD (09) - 3 riders on hills outside french borders. Hire entertainer in Nanking. size 12. Pay 368 for 2 temples. In old russian cities.
IT: 1 Rider and 3 temples built.
350AD (10) - Now seems like a good time for a GA. I left 2 riders with turns. move how you want.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-350AD.zip

Ok, I got a tad confused last night.

Little Brother has led us into his first war - with a civ on the other side of the world from him, of course. :rolleyes: Got it, will try to help out Xerxes without crippling the French (I don't think there's any danger of Little Brother losing one of his cities).

And I thought he was fighting Russia the whole time, but he actually wanted to fight France. That is so special.

Oops! I forgot to give little bro a birthday present :smoke:

(0) 350AD Voodoocat gave me a turn with several units still to be moved, and us just getting involved with Persia against France in war. Looks like Little Brother saw that Joanie was the #3 power on the histograph behind us two, and decided to knock her around a bit. Nice thinking! We will support Little Brother in his fight, but we are not going to capture a bunch of cities for him. He has to stand on his own feet, after all (and if we just killed everyone but Little Brother, this game would be too easy). No birthday present to X-Man at the end of the last turn? I will have to give him something "extra nice" this time. ;)

Why are we running a scientist in Ningpo? He goes to work a tile for us. We are building way too many military units; it's not like we're actually going to try and destroy France here! For another thing, our defenders are worse than pathetic in most cities; we are running archers and warriors as defenders in our core cities. Is there a reason for this? We are more than strong enough to create non-paper defenders. I will focus on improving defense on my turn. Shanghai from Rider to Library, Tsingtao from Rider to Library. Xinjian is working on a Rider when it lacks even a barracks! :smoke: This city, which has our FP, is defended by only a reglar warrior? We're tempting fate way too much here. It goes to a barracks for now, so it can build a defender for itself. Chengdu has no chance of winning the cultural fight against the Babylonian city it juts up against, and so it gets switched from a library to a much-needed courthouse. Why is Tblisi running an entertainer? Might as well let it grow, we did put a temple in it. Tientsin doesn't need an entertainer thanks to the GA commerce bonus, it goes back to working full tiles. Kaifeng doesn't need a change of production, but it is running +8 food/turn (!) That's some fast growth! Specialist in Paoting changed from a useless scientist to a taxman. Now done with domestic, on to foreign...

X-Man is gracious with us (hooray!) and is up Chemistry. I consider a military alliance with him against France, but decide that the 50g he wants from us to sign it would be a waste. Egypt is up Printing Press on us, as is Babylon, while Cathy is at parity with us. Joanie won't talk to us, Bismarck is behind by Gunpowder, and finally Tokugawa is up Printing Press as well. I really would rather be buying techs than researching at this point, but we are locked into researching Education right now, so I'd better continue the project. We will lose a lot of money is someone else discovers the tech before we do in 5 turns. Actually... we have 419g and are researching at -92gpt. We will not have enough money to complete research at this rate; I'll leave it as is in the hopes that we can pull back the slider when we get close to discovery. I don't like being this broke though; we will go back to cash when the tech is discovered. I take up a defensive posture with our Riders, so we can support attacks by Persia without actually conquering cities ourselves. There's some big Immortal SODs on the way, so this should be interesting! :D

(1) 360AD Between turns, a French knight charges up a hill, across a river, to kill one of our Riders (sigh). Moving workers, I notice some poor decisions. We have one or two workers clearing many jungle tiles all over the place instead of a few stacks of 4-6 clearing a few of them. We want our workers clearing jungle tiles together, not scattered all apart. This is a waste of worker turns; it's far better to clear out 6 jungle tiles one at a time on turns 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18 than clear out 6 all at once on turn 15. I make some adjustments where I can to fix this. One worker is even clearing jungle on a tile outside our cultural borders! :rolleyes: Good grief, I'm glad none of this silliness was going on in the Naked Vikings game, it could have been fatal there. And then a Rider gallops past on a Goto order... I'm going to have a talk with you voodoocat about succession game etiquette here. :nono: Please try not to do this in the future. Fortunately we can kick research down a notch without slowing the ETA, and are now only losing 44gpt.

In order to get forces up to Minsk, we are going to need a ROP with Russia. What? We don't have an embassy with Catherine? The ONLY embassy we have is the one I founded with Little Brother? :rolleyes: Come on guys, we need to build embassies for moments like this! I found an embassy with Russia for 38g and sign a ROP for 11g + WM. Cathy is now polite. When we get out of deficit research, I will found more embassies.

(2) 370AD Quiet turn. I shuffle some more Riders up to the front; we can't really advance in support of X-Man until I get more units there. We have an excess spice, so let's give it to Little Brother. WM and 140g is your offer? We'll take it! :love: Now if only your units would stop blocking up our roads...

(3) 380AD Uh-oh! Three French knights come out of Babylonian territory to threaten Chinan, defended by a horse. That's why we need to beef up our defense. Time to research Education drops to 1 turn... yep, just about everyone has it. We get it from Little Brother for 12g, and then trade it to Japan along with 326g and 19gpt for Chemistry. Well, we flushed a lot of money down the toilet there; let's stick to buying techs until we closer to the Industrial Age, ok? Even at 10% science, we could get Music Theory in only 30 turns.

(4) 390AD The French units threatening Chinan turn around and run back into the fog near Riga. OK, that's fine with me. Between turns I watch French and Persian units slugging it out in in the northeast. Now that we finally have some cash, I upgrade some of our vet spears to pikes. I send our excess warriors no longer needed for MP (or for defense) to our cities under cultural pressure to reduce flip chances.

(5) 400AD Persia signs Egypt to a military alliance against France. :goodjob: A French knight attacks and kills one of our Riders, fortified in a city across a river (Minsk) Can't get no luck from the number generator right now. Then the same 2hp knight kills one of our Riders on the defense. :mad: This does NOT make me happy. Sorry Little Brother, I'm trying to help but not getting anything from the game. I notice that Little Brother has a new monopoly tech this turn, Metallurgy. And the French have moved more knights towards Shangtung; am dealing with it.

(6) 410AD French knights go after Persian spears passing through rather than attack our units. Thanks Little Bro. I see something terrifying this turn: Persian CAVALRY! Little Brother or not, he has a monopoly on Metallurgy AND Military Tradition. Whew! And the stream of units passing through our territory continues non-stop. If X-Man ever stabbed us, we'd be in trouble. I use our money to found embassies with everyone except France, with whom of course we cannot since we are at war.

(7) 420AD Not much going on. Trade Chemistry to Catherine to pick up Printing Press in return. We have excess dyes, so I send them to Little Brother for whatever he wants - namely 20g + 6gpt.

(8) 430AD Even less going on. All is peaceful, if you can ignore the 25+ Persian units in our territory.

(9) 440AD Little Brother has captured Marseilles! [dance] We are moving our units to that area to make sure that he keeps it. Now that we are completing universities all over our civ (that's what I've been using the GA production for), we can start up researching on Banking, due in 4 turns at -105gpt. I wouldn't do this except for the fact that the no one except Little Brother is researching at all; must be due to the wars. Little Brother now has Metallurgy, Astronomy, and Military Tradition all as monopoly techs. He is kicking butt! All we have to do is keep pace.

(10) 450AD Yawn, another boring turn. Manging workers and production to get the maximum benefit from our golden age. X-Man gets a whopping 400g present for his birthday to make up for missing the one last turn.

I spent most of my turn building various city improvements; I was not going to waste our golden age production building Riders to fight a useless battle against France. All cathedrals on the map right now are bank prebuilds. It looks like we are beginning to pull away from the pack along with Persia, which is great news as long as Little Brother doesn't stab us. I've left 6 Riders between Minsk and Cherbourg; I was holding them there for when Xerxes tried to attack the city. Don't attack Cherbourg with just those units, as the odds of success are pretty low. Do what you can to support Little Brother but don't go nuts; we aren't trying to eliminate France, after all. I wish that he would just end the war so we could make peace and get this finished! Continue building for the most part and take it easy. At least I managed to upgrade our defenses significantly; we have pikes everywhere now.

RBD19 450AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_450AD.zip)

Xerxes is doing even better than expected; our one concern at this point should be whether we've "created a monster" and Little Brother will turn on us. He's certainly pulling away from the other civs in tech. We may want to start building for some wonders as well; there is no cascade at the moment.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_450AD.jpg

T-Hawk <<< UP NOW
Sirp <<< on deck
Speaker
voodoocat
Sullla

Well I must have done a goto on my last turn and not realized it was my last turn. It was only 1.5 turns away from its destination. I am full aware of SG etiquette. I don't use goto in SG's unless it will complete during my turn

I really would rather be buying techs than researching at this point, but we are locked into researching Education right now

We were on minimum research for education up until the GA started. I only adjusted the slider to see how fast we would discover it. I then forgot to switch it back. Sorry about that.

On the issue of workers:

I'm not in the habit of stacking workers to clear jungle like that. I've always used them as single workers.

Got it, will play once I set my computer up again (don't ask; I'm on a P166 laptop right now) which should be tomorrow; Thursday at the latest.

On the issue of workers: Actually, it is more efficient to spread the workers out to clear jungle. Each worker spends a turn to move into the unimproved jungle square. If one worker clears the jungle, that's 25 worker-turns (non-industrious.) If six workers clear the jungle, that's 31 worker-turns. That's actually a bigger hit for an industrious civ (us), since the worker time spent moving into the jungle is a bigger proportion of the total worker time involved.

It depends on the situation. If a city is stuck enough to be working uncleared jungle tiles; pile on the workers and get it cleared ASAP. If the city has enough decent tiles to work, you can spread out the workers and get the entire job done a bit sooner.

Also on workers: I know it's more efficient in terms of pure worker turns to cut down stacks of jungle using only one worker at a time. But using stacked workers allows you to get useful tiles into play faster, which is why in most situations I would not put solo workers onto clearing jungle duty. It's the same reason why you generally wouldn't railroad your territory by putting one worker on each tile to be railed; sure, you lose some worker turns by stacking them, but the extra turns of increased food/shields more than make up for it. Same deal with jungle clearing in most cases. Of course there are always exceptions to any rule, and in this case it may have been more efficient to have solo workers clearing jungle tiles.

We were on minimum research for education up until the GA started. I only adjusted the slider to see how fast we would discover it. I then forgot to switch it back. Sorry about that.

OK, an honest mistake on researching Education so early makes more sense. Let's just hope that no one makes a slip like that in the future! :)

Actually, you don't lose worker turns stacking them for rails if you do it right. The workers can all enter the square and start railroading it on the same turn, since it'll already have a road. :) But for jungle it still stands - if you don't need the tiles cleared right away, spreading out the workers gets the entire job done sooner.

25 turns is a long time, during which unexpected hostilities can lead you to have to stop and move a worker. The potential loss of all that time and all those worker turns has actually bit me often enough that I almost never go with less than two workers into the jungle, preferably three or four.

By the time you are clearing jungles, you ought to have enough workers that a worker turn here or there is not an issue, while getting rid of the darn jungle quickly is. Disease risk, getting tiles into use, getting roads through the area, finding out if you have any BG tiles under there... you ought to have enough workers to get to it, not be riding the line of "just enough workers to keep up with our immediate needs". You can almost never have too many workers!


- Sirian

Yeah but we're an industrious civ, so it's only 12 turns for us; I think that's an acceptable amount of time. For an non-industrious civ, I'd probably use at least 2 workers.

-Sirp.

Anyways, here goes.

We're in Golden Age, cool. I think Xerxes also got his golden age at the same time, with an immortal against France, which would be how he got that far ahead in tech.

As for France, I really don't think Xerxes needs a whole lot of help. I'll attack units out in the open, and pillage French resources, but I don't think we have any need to attack French cities, nor would doing so gain us anything. (Marseilles with the wines would be nice to have, but Little Bro won it fair and square.)

I pay to investigate Marseilles to check on two things: one, yes, Xerxes is in Golden Age; and two, he doesn't have Marseilles hooked up by road. I'm going to divert our workers to hooking it up for him - that means both of us can have wines!

Sulla said to think about a wonder. Yeah, let's go for one, how does Hangchow sound? Bach's, Smith's, and Copernicus are all available soon and useful.

=====

Apparently, we're helping Xerxes mostly by absorbing French counterstrikes for him. French knights kill three of our riders over the next few turns, while we kill a couple of them trying to retake Marseilles. Our riders reach and pillage one French horse resource, but they have another on the far side of their territory.

We get Banking. Xerxes still has Astronomy and Metallurgy, of course. If I ask him "what can I pay for Astronomy", he says Banking. If I say "make an offer for Banking", he says Astronomy, 380g, 24/turn. I think we're allowed to accept the latter, and I do. (We can't get Metallurgy for less than Banking plus 50/turn.)

Babylon's also got 48/turn to pay for Banking, and they offered less than that, so I take it. Nobody else has anything to offer.

Xerxes has Navigation already. We can research anything in 4 turns (in Golden Age); should we? Well, since we just traded Banking to X-Bro this turn, I don't think he'll be researching Democracy right now. I start that at max research; no, we won't use it, but it's guaranteed to get us Metallurgy from X, and will be worth plenty in trade to anyone else.

=====

X-man captures Toulouse in 490 AD. The next turn, he signs in Russia to join the alliance against France. I don't think our brother is going to stop until Joanie is gone.

There's some traffic problems developing around Shantung; X's and our units keep getting in each other's way. I assign a couple workers to build extra roads in the area to alleviate this.

In 510 AD, he captures Grenoble. According to the world map, EGYPT has also gotten into the action; they've captured Chartres which is on France's border with JAPAN. Can't tell the players without a scorecard, but France is getting carved up fast. Egypt's capture deprives France of their last horses, too.

=====

Also in 520 AD, we've researched Democracy. Unfortunately, we're a bit stuck: Xerxes has Navigation, Physics, and Metallurgy, but the one he offers us for Democracy is Navigation (plus 80 gold/turn.) I'd rather get one of the useful techs. So I place Physics on the table on his side, then ask, and he wants Democracy. I hope that's okay by the rules (it's still quite a generous deal anyway.)

He immediately revolts; I wasn't sure if he'd do that while still in war. This gives us a window to research another tech before he can research any. I pick Theory of Gravity, which we should then be able to trade for Metallurgy.

Nobody else in the world has anything to offer for Democracy, and most still lack even Astronomy.

Also in 520 AD, JAPAN joins the global alliance against France.

Also in 520 AD, Xerxes razes Cherbourg. Um, what do the rules say about lending our brother help in war, if we can't keep up with his rampage? :crazyeye: I do have three cities building riders (Canton, Beijing, and Tsingtao), but they're getting stuck in the gridlock going through Shantung.

And Egypt has conquered a second French city over in the east.

=====

540 AD: our workers have hooked up Marseilles for Xerxes, so he's got wines for himself and we can buy some. We pay his request of our treasury of 386 gold plus 7/turn, and drop our lux rate to 0% for an extra 75/turn income.

And this turn, Xerxes captures Paris. Wow.

550 AD: Our Golden Age will end at the end of this turn. According to the domestic advisor, we could get Theory of Gravity in 1 turn at 70% science, but that isn't right since we lose the Golden Age commerce boost. At 70% science, the tech would take 614 beakers. 50% science is 448 beaker production; that should stay safely above 300 when the GA ends for us to get the tech in 2 turns. (Since we have only 19 gold in the treasury, we run the risk of bankruptcy due to lowered cash production from the Golden Age ending if we leave the slider at 70%.)

Hangchow has Copernicus due in 3, which is wrong because of GA ending. Nanking is also building a Palace, wrongly listed also as finishing in 5. This wonder can be Bach's or Smith's or Newton's, whichever becomes available.

Persia came out of his anarchy this turn, but get this - went into MONARCHY. Um, a big whoops there on Xerxes' part. :smoke: Looks like we'll get to be the research leaders from now on! I didn't build any banks, since I figured we'd be pushing ahead on research, and now we definitely will.

Tblisi is running two entertainers to keep it in WLTKD until it finishes the courthouse.

For his birthday, Xerxes gets not six, but three fine Chinese laborers! Yay, not socks! [party] (Keep peeling workers off maxed size-12 cities. Xinjian and Canton are doing so this turn.)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbd19-550ad.zip

ok got it.

I need a rules clarification here :)

I was under the understanding that if we say "What would you offer us for X?" or "What do you want for Y?" that we were under obligation to accept the deal no matter what. Am I mistaken here? On my previous turn, I was avoiding asking him such questions unless I was sure we'd want to do the deal.

-Sirp.

I was thinking that we can see any offers at the table, and we can accept what we want - but whatever is accepted has to be HIS suggestion, not ours. (Meaning all deals are at "generous price" or better.) And also with the stipulation that by the end of the turn, Brother has all the tech that we do.

I'm not sure exactly what the rules are either. It says "if we don't like the offer, just GIVE it to him" - does that mean we can't let him make a different offer that we like better?

These rules are a bit convoluted. I had a question on my last turn about trading techs that no one answered. I'll repost it to go along with Sirp's question:

I am a little unsure of the rules here. They say that if we need a resource, and our little brother has it, we must trade with him. It also says that if we have a tech that he does not have, we must off it to him. It does not, however, say that we must get all of our technology from him. Proceeding under this understanding, I trade X-Man 33gpt, dyes, and 418 gold for Invention and then turn around and trade Invention to Cleopatra along with 2gpt, for Theology. I then trade theology to Bis for 4gpt and 70 gold and no one else has much of anything to trade. I apologize if I misinterpreted the rules, but to deprive ourselves of brokerage opportunies doesn't make sense to me.

I was thinking that we can see any offers at the table, and we can accept what we want - but whatever is accepted has to be HIS suggestion, not ours. (Meaning all deals are at "generous price" or better.) And also with the stipulation that by the end of the turn, Brother has all the tech that we do.

That would be correct. You never alter any of his suggested deals. You can't suggest, only ask what he suggests. You don't have to accept his offer, or sell to him first, as long as you make sure he has the tech in his hands before you click Next Turn.


- Sirian

Early: Persia wants to cancel our RoP agreement. Very well little brother. He also signs a peace treaty with France. We get a worker, 5gpt, and WM from France in exchange for peace.

We trade around and get Music Theory, Nanking switched to Bach's Cathedral. With the arrival of peace, I start on some banks.

Ok, we get theory of gravity, and have managed to trade around, without losing our monopoly on ToG, to getting metallurgy. So, can we get MT off our little brother? Nope, he won't accept any offer for it. He will give us 710 gold + 94gpt + WM for ToG though. Sure X-man, whatever you say!

Middle: We sell Democracy to France for 5gpt.

X-Man declares war on Crazy Cathy! We do the same of course. X-Man will get all the help against her he wants.

We capture Sverdlovsk immediately.

I send some MDIs, a longbowman, and a pikeman from Chinan up to try to take Riga.

Xerxes got Magnetism the same turn we did, meaning that we still can't MT, and now of course he has nationalism. We go for steam power at 100% science (and yet are still making money from gpt payments).

Late:

Cathy has knights outside of Tbilisi. We have no choice but to abandon the city. We capture Riga though, consolidating our empire.

Persia signs Germany into a military alliance against the Russians.

We capture Krasnoyarsk from Russia. Xerxes has serious cavalry going up there, so Russia might get the snot beaten out of it a bit. He also lands an immortal next to Ningpo, but that's on it's way to Russia....right?

I enter into the Benevolent Big Brother competition with my entry of 600 gold pieces for Xerxes birthday. He's Gracious with us these days! How wonderful!

Good Luck!

-Sirp.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-650AD.zip)

Got it. Will try to play this afternoon.

Shouldn't you try to re-establish that RoP to let X-man's units through to Russia faster? :)

No choice but to abandon Tblisi? I guess we couldn't have afforded Nationalism and then drafted? :)

We could also have given away Tblisi to someone else; it wouldn't help Xerxes, but we could've given it to France and reclaimed it later with Chinese cultural memory intact.

Just nitpicking. :)

IT- Riga, Sverdlovsk, and Krasnoyarsk put on the subway diet.

660AD (1) Astrakhan falls to our two riders without a scratch. Re-sign the RoP deal with X-Man. Go beat up Russia little bro!

IT- Persia offers his WM for ours and 40 gold. Sure bro, whatever you want. Nice to see your smiling face again.

670AD (2) Wow, the other civs are really weak in this game. Looks like just us and our little bro are in charge here.

IT- Vladivostok falls easily to Persia. It takes two Russian Kniggits to dispatch our warrior from the disbanded Tblisi.

680AD (3) MM slider to gain cash.

IT- A few German troops enter our land. Easy Bis, easy.

690AD (4) We finish Steam Engine and I start work on Industrialization. Cathedrals started as prebuilds for Factories. Xinjian starts work on....the Iron Works! Notice that Anyang, currently building a Rider, has no barracks...Switch to Bank. Slider adjusted to 80% science. Military railnet started. Xerxes offers 87gpt and 210 gold for Steam Power. For Military Tradition he wants Steam Power, 17gpt and 1166 gold, and he will not give up Nationalism. I decide to take the money since we can research MT in 4 turns ourselves. Science back up to 100%.

IT- Rostov falls to Persia. Babylon finishes JS Back in Ur, 3 turns before we were to finish it :(.

700AD (5) I switch to Palace and then to Newton's, and then back to Palace to shed some shields, but keep the box almost full for Universal Suffrage which is coming up. Babylon has the free Nationalism, but will not trade it, nor will Xerxes.

IT- Grozny falls to X-Man. Our little bro is really flexing his might here. Gems deal is cancelled and X-Man has no extra. Uh, what happened here? Wait, were we getting them from Japan? Looks like Pasargadae will build the iron works too. Does this seem more prevalent in PTW? Since X-Man does not have any Gems to trade, I give Tokugawa 589 gold for them.

710AD (6) More military railnet.

720AD (7) More military railnet.

IT- Moscow is under siege but does not fall.

730AD (8) More military railnet.

IT- Moscow falls and the Persian horde marches on. Pikemen are no match for Cavalry. Babylon offers MPP and RoP. No thanks Hammy.

740AD (9) More military railnet.

IT- X-Man cancels our wines for 7gpt deal and now requres 620 gold for it. Sure thing bro. St. Petersburg, Kharkov, and Sevastopol fall to X-Man. Cathy is not doing so well with only 4 cities left.

750AD (10) More military railnet (almost complete). X-Man gets a big fat 375 gold check for his birthday.

Conclusion- Industrialization is finished next turn, and all Cathedrals being built are meant as prebuilds for factories. Nanking should switch to Universal Suffrage next turn and have its tiles adjusted to gain more spt. The rider in Russia is hanging out in case any support is needed, and to see what is going on in the war. I didn't help our little brother much because he really didn't need any of our help. He is close to destroying Russia. I wonder what Cathy did to piss him off so much. Oh, we have another coal that can be hooked up if desired and if we can spare the worker turns. It is near Anyang. We should probably build up our military very soon, as our cities are defended by mostly pikemen. Good luck to the next player.

PS- I may have left one small stack of workers on goto. The mouse accidentally slipped and I sent them on a 3 turn move on my 7th or 8th turn and then they moved again before I could fix them. In any event, I apologize for it. :o

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-750AD.zip)

T-Hawk: The AI really wants insane prices for Nationalism; I really don't think it'd have been worth it.

As for gifting the city to another civilization, yes we could have, but to be honest, I don't like the idea of gifting an about-to-be-captured city. I think it's borderline exploitive, and so I don't use it. I also prefer the way they do it in multiplayer, where abandoning a city takes 1 turn, so you can't just abandon a city the moment it's about to be captured.

-Sirp.

Iron Works in Xinjian? I think I picked that location for the FP in about 1000BC. Better to be lucky... :p

T-Hawk
Sirp
Speaker
voodoocat <<< UP NOW
Sullla <<< on deck

Got it. I'll be playing and posting tonight.

<enter>
Discover Industry start on Medicine
Ordered barracks in hangchow so we can train rifles during the factory build phase.
760AD (01) - Switch all the Cathedrals to Factories. I call over X to see if wants to trade Nationalism. He wants WM, Industry, 22gpt, and 510 gold. No prob.
IT: Minsk finishes library. Start University. Macao builds market, fire entertainer.
770AD (02) - Mostly railnet. Japan will pay us 55gold and 37gpt for Steam.
IT: There is quite a bit less green now that rails are being laid. Tsingtao finishes bank. Order rifles.
780AD (03) - Russia is down to one remaining city. Aunt Cathy packs up her bags and leaves.
IT: Macao barracks>Rifles
790AD (04) - X is up communism and MT. Persia is in anarchy
IT: Palace expansion
800AD (05) - Start on improving land around core.
810AD (06) - MM for medicine in 1 and 290gold. Little bro goes to democracy.
IT: Discover Medicine go for Electricity. Beijing Factory>Rifle. Xinjian builds IW>Trim worker off
820AD (07) - Call up Xerves and he would like to pay us MT, 80 gold and WM for Medicine. What a little dealer. We are teaching him well
Tsingtao still training rifles. Xinjian starts on factory. Chengdu builds Library. Babs are building Smiths
830AD (08) - Persia has Economics too.
IT: Macao builds rifle, starts Factory. Paoting builds library
840AD (09) - We could trade for economics. I'll leave that up to next leader.
Beijing builds Rifle>rifle. Tientsin builds factory>harbor. Chinan courthouse
850AD (10) - I give a young Paoting to serve as a summer home for X. He can whale watch. Or goldpan in the gold rich mountains. Plus 200g to furnish the home.




http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-850AD.zip

Looks like Little Brother has been doing quite a job of flexing his muscles. :) Got it, and should have it back shortly.

(0) 850AD For the most part everything looks good. What happened to Russia though? Looks like Little Brother dropped a "OMGWHTTZ" on Cathy when I wasn't watching. ;) We managed to link up all our cities though, so that's a big plus. Persia and China are ridiculously far out in front of the other civs, right where we want to be. The only thing that concerns me is our weak defense in our cities - just like last turn. I'll see if I can replace those pikes with rifles before my turn ends. We need more artillery too - one cat is not enough.

Beijing at 39 shields/turn on rifle? Ouch - I will use workers to get that over 40 next turn. I wish we had rushed a factory and coal plant in a city immediately upon getting Industrialization so we could have guaranteed Suffrage; as it is, it might be close to get the wonder. Decide that we would rather have Smith's than Suffrage, so I trade for Economics, then switch Nanking over to Smith's. We can still build Suffrage before TOE appears, and it's no big loss if one of the other civs gets it.

(1) 860AD Smith's completed in Nanking, jumping our income up quite a bit. Cascade snapped except that one Persian city is building Suffrage. Little Brother shows up with The Corporation this turn. As a side note, I've noticed that in PTW the existence of stock exchanges causes the AI civs to put a much higher priority on the top half of the Industrial Age tech tree... with the result that they now ignore Electricity/Scientific Method to a much greater extent. This actually makes the game much easier for humans, as TOE can be secured much more easily.

(2) 870AD Xinjian builds factory, swaps to coal plant.

(3) 880AD Xinjian builds coal plant. Now at 105 shields/turn, it goes to work on Suffrage, due in 8 turns. There is a pretty good chance we will outbuild Persia to the wonder despite their big head start and Emperor production bonus.

(4) 890AD A gpt deal must have run out, because our income drops dramatically. We discover Electricity next turn though, so that should improve shortly. Kaifeng finishes factory and hits the magic 40 shields/turn number exactly (after configuration). It's set to rifle production.

(5) 900AD Several more factories complete, opening the path to build banks and rifles (depending on the city). We discover Electricity, and only Little Brother can make a fair offer for it. He'll give us The Corporation + 14gpt + 180g, which seems pretty fair to me. We could gouge out more money by haggling, but I would never think to do something like that with our beloved Little Brother! :love: Research started on Scientific Method, due in 7 turns. Suffrage will complete in 6 turns, thus preventing a cascade to TOE (hopefully).

(6) 910AD Japan "demands" Medicine. Sorry, we don't cave to demands from anyone. Except Little Brother, that is. :D He backs down, as expected. I then trade him Medicine for gems, since our gems deal expired between turns. See, Tokugawa? Isn't trading much nicer than bullying? :) Cleo scrapes up some gold for a tech; the most devalued is Medicine, so I send that to her for 20g + 15gpt.

(8) 930AD Egypt coughs up some more cash: they get Nationalism for 35g + 20gpt. Make money as I do every turn from trading world maps. The world is calm and at peace.

(9) 940AD Wines deal with Persia wears off; what do you want to renew it Xerxes? WM and 690g? That's fine with us! :love:

(10) 950AD First stock exchange finishes at Beijing. Quiet last turn. Joanie comes up with some nice cash for Metallurgy though: 36g + 17gpt.

The game is moving along nicely - it's turned into a real builder's game. Persia passed us on the histograph this turn for the first time, since the game stupidly counts score only based on population and territory. We have far more production power and commerce than Persia, since 1/2 of Little Brother's territory is hopelessly corrupted in former Russia.

We will complete Suffrage next turn in Xinjian, snapping the cascade of wonders. The turn after that, we will discover Scientific Method and can start TOE. That wonder should go in Xinjian too, where it will take 6 turns to build. The HOOVER prebuild is underway in Hangchow, which should be timed to finish Hoover about 5 turns after Xinijan completes TOE. Other than that, simply keep moving workers around and improving our cities. We are highly dificient in banks, so I've been working on them. Upgrade our pikes to rifles if you think you have the money to do so; I did not on my turn. Cities are configured for shields at the moment, they will need to be re-irrigated when we get hospitals! :cool:

Uploads file server is not working, and the zipped save file is too big to attach. So, um, I can't upload the save file! I will e-mail it to T-Hawk and hope that the thing is working soon.

Got it (so it was you that clogged up my email this morning trying to download it over a dialup) ;)

Now that the uploads file server is working again, I can put up a picture of our current map in 950AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19_950AD.jpg

EDIT: Ha, posting at the same time as T-Hawk! :) Sorry to clog up your e-mail, but the zipped save was only about 300K. Then again, I can download that on my connection in less than a second, so for a dialup user it might indeed pose a problem! Regardless, have fun with this turn. :D

Inherited turn:

Oh my god what happened to the Russians? :lol:

We've got Dyes for 6/turn up for renegotiation with X. His new offer is 120 + 10/turn; sure, bro!
One build Sulla didn't mention among all the wonder instructions: Wall Street. It'll be available soon, but yeah, we need banks first.

960 AD: Xerxes has got Refining. Good, something for us to trade Scientific Method for. Suffrage completes.

970 AD: We've got Scientific Method. Stupid Xinjian pollutes its iron mine, which will cost us a turn for ToE and require almost all of our worker labor this turn to clean.

We have time to research Sanitation before ToE will complete, so we start that.

Um, for Refining, Xerxes wants Scientific Method plus 223 gold/turn from us. No can do, bro. The best he'll offer is 110 + 60 gold/turn for it, and we have to accept. Our ToE techs will get us Refining, I'm sure.

======

980 AD: After thinking about it, I realize we'll actually get Hoover sooner by having Xinjian prebuild that while Hangchow switches to ToE. The Palace only costs 500 shields, so Hoover will take quite a bit longer in Hangchow than the prebuild would indicate. And I can even let Xinjian build a Stock Exchange first before starting on Hoover, which will get us going on Wall Street several turns sooner.

990: Xerxes wants to sign MPP, us paying 4 gold/turn. I believe we're required to accept, and I do. He goes back to Gracious.

1000: We've got Sanitation. We STILL can't get Refining from X, but he will offer 108 gold/turn for our tech. Hospitals are ordered, of course.

Hmm; do we research now? ToE is due in 4 turns, but the only 4-turn research we could do would be Espionage. We could delay ToE, but there isn't anything we can research in 5, and I don't want to drop ToE and Hoover back two turns.

Eh, let's research Espionage. I do it because of this: we will get Espionage and the ToE techs on the same turn, and the combination of Espionage and Atomic Theory should finally pry Refining off of our little brother.

======

1040 AD: Completing this turn are: Espionage, Wall Street, Theory of Evolution, Atomic Theory, and Electronics.

1050 AD: Wow, Little Bro got Replaceable Parts. He offers Replaceable + 33/turn for our Atomic Theory. Then he'll finally take Electronics and Espionage for Refining.

(I could put Refining plus 30 gold/turn on his side, ask for an offer, and he'll say our two techs. I think that's technically within the rules, but hey, let's not nickel and dime our Super Sibling.)

We have one oil, but it's not hooked up yet. Persia's got Oil on sale, but don't buy it. :) We have four rubbers, and our bro has at least one of his own.

======

Research set to Radio, in hopes that X will research Steel while we do that.

X gets 100 bucks for his birthday. (Hey, I cut him some GREAT deals on all those techs. We got SEVEN techs on my turn.)

Hoover's due in 3, although it'll only make that if Xinjian doesn't pollute.

Everyone besides Persia is at least five techs behind. Exactly as we'd like it. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbe19-1050ad.zip

I think the link is actually this: RBD19 - 1050AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbd19-1050ad.zip)

Egads, I can never type a link right these days anymore; thanks for the catch :crazyeye:

The combined research efforts of China and Persia shine forth as a beacon for all the world to see, bringing the light of reason and wisdom to the unenlightened natives of the rest of the world. Surely the everlasting friendship of Mao and his little brother Xerxes will take them together to the very stars!

Mao -> :king: :love2: :king: <- Xerxes

T-Hawk
Sirp <<< UP NOW
Speaker <<< on deck
voodoocat
Sullla

Hmm.I woudl say dont screw yourself over dur to the ai's incopotence. If i decide i woudl say do the desal you want as long as X comesout on top. if that menas givng him 5 techs for a tech you REALLY need/want but he wants commy for a tech you dont want. do your deal.

Remember. You dotn ALWAYS get what you want for christmas/birthday.

@Widdowmaker: Well, I would say at this point, it doesn't matter what we do. As long as we research the Space Ship techs and give them to X-Man, and don't launch ourselves, he will get a Spaceship Victory. I hope he won't mind when we plant a spy to make sure he is making good progress. I love our little brother. :love:

PS- I've got a Solo Deity OCC game going that is looking very good. I am only behind by about 4 Industrial Age techs and with a little more strong play, should be able to eek out a Diplomatic Victory. It is quite a difficult variant, but definitely not a guarenteed loss.

got it. Not sure when exactly I'll get to play though.

-Sirp.

damnit your the 5th or 6th perosn to say that. how do you win with ONE city! you are allowed 4 or 5 military units. INCULDING WORKERS.

widdowmaker: take a look at RBD15 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18047), a succession game that won OCC on deity. ;)

@ Widdowmaker: I think you are misinterpreting what "allowed units" means. After 4 units per city, you have to pay 1 gold per unit. This is only in Despotism however (and perhaps Communism, though I'm not exactly sure how it works because I have never used it). In Monarchy, Republic, and Democracy you get no free units and must pay one gold for each of them. The victory goal of a OCC game, however, is not military, since you are right, you cannot support many units. I currently only have about 9 units: 3 workers, 2 musketmen, 2 cannons, and 2 swordsmen. By careful trading of technology and resources (I continually trade my only iron and saltpeter), it is possible to stay relatively caught up in technology until Fission, when you build the UN and win by diplomacy. The most difficult part is staying on everyone's good side, finding good tech buying and trading opportunities, and somehow grabbing a military golden age (if you cannot get one through wonders) without being killed. It is quite difficulty, but not impossible.

Not to nitpick, Speaker, but Monarchy and Communism give you 2, 4, and 8 units per town, city, and metropolis. Despotism gives 4 per, regarless of size.

Ah yes. I knew Communism gave something, but didn't know what. Forgot about Monarchy because I also never use it. I always go from Despotism to Republic and then to Democracy if necessary. Thanks for the correction Cromagnon. I also forgot to mention the possibility of a 20k cultural victory, though the vicious deity cascade often squashes that idea.

I also played and won another Deity OCC game recently with the current latest patch. The results are up in the RBCiv forum here:

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=189557&messageid=1036458010

Early: I ship Magnetism to France for 20 gold + 9gpt.

I ship Scientific Method to Japan for 20 gold + 18gpt.

Our military is antiquated! We've got this game in the bag