I've been playing deity for a few months now and one nagging question seems to linger in my mind: Do I even like playing at deity difficulty???

I have mixed feelings. I'll try to explain without turning this thread into a deity flame session.

I understand that deity is supposed to be uber-hard. The description says that only the best players in the world will be able to beat the game at this level. I have no problem with that, or with how the game designers accomplished making it harder (the huge advantages the AI have), but there are some effects of this that rub me the wrong way. Because deity is so difficult...it forces us to play the game with a fairly canned set of tactics that are really only necessary (perhaps even only applicable) at deity level. It also forces us to find every single "loophole" or "exploit" of the AI's behavior in order to stand a chance.

I enjoy peaceful games, for the most part, and the fact that the best way to win a deity game is via warmongering...it also limits my options for Civs as well and makes peaceful victories very difficult.

So why do I continue to play deity? Because I am a perfectionist and I want to be the best. Plain and simple. I want to be one of the few people on these forums who can say I won an OCC cultural deity game.

So what do the rest of you think? Do you enjoy playing deity or do you do it for the challenge/respect as I do? Do you get so mad at playing the game sometimes you could smash your PC against the wall? I do...:lol:

Not a Deity player myself, but I'd imagine they want what Prince\King players like me want, namely, a better, more refined, less predictable yet more sensible AI that doesn't have to cheat as much to prove a challenge.

Basically what you said. I do not enjoy fighting against what I see as contrived or artificial challenges (*but see last paragraph). I do not enjoy having to take advantage of every little quirk in the game and its "diplomacy" in order to survive. Living off the AI because it's stupid enough to overpay for every little thing feels cheap. Beating the AI in war against 20-1 odds, or higher, is not that fun to me. Mainly because shooting fish in a barrel is only entertaining for so long.

I've lost nearly every game I've played on Deity. The ones I won (been a while, but I think just 3, or maybe even 2), were by nature a result of "gaming the game." I don't know how else to explain it. My skill at ruling an empire didn't win the game, only the knowledge of how the game works at every level. This seems dry and boring to me, so I stopped playing that level.

* Frankly, it's the exact same problem at all levels. But Deity really magnifies it. A lot. I occasionally still play, though it's typically on Emperor. Somehow that level just seems to balance out for me. Not sure about how others feel.

I beat deity a couple times and then decided that I didn't enjoy it for all the reasons listed in the OP. It's satisfying to beat deity for the first time, but the narrowness of the necessary strategies at that level really kills the replay value for me. I just don't have any desire to calculate the exact timing needed to maximize the return of multiple waves of research agreements ever again, and not because it's difficult; it is not. I dislike it because it's so...petty.

I beat diety once to get the achievment and havn't been back. Not really interested in metagaming CiV. I find Immortal gives a decent challenge without being silly.

I've never played MP (I'm on Mac which doesn't help) but I would guess that this would be the only way to sort out who the "best" players in the world are. Beating diety is just an exercise in exploitation.

If i work hard on it i'm pretty sure i will win on a regular basis at Deity level. But i don't have fun at all. If i really want to test myself ''hardcorely'', i will play multiplayer against very good players.

I play 15% sp and 85% mp. Main reason why i can't regulary beat Deity yet. But i don't care, i just don't like this level with plenty of massive bonuses and brainless AIs.

I like competition, and this can be achieved with all difficulty levels(like GOTM and HoF). I still prefer mp though. In fact, all my sp games are for HoF and GOTM competitions. I just hate playing the AI just to prove myself. I want spectators! :lol:

I used to be a King-level player for quite some time, but after beating the game on emperor and immortal I started playing Deity almost exclusively. After a while I really got bored with it, since there really is nothing much to do than stick to the victory plan you laid on turn 1 while slaughtering the mindless hordes of AI units. If you deviate from the strategy even for a bit, you'll probably end up losing pretty quick. So I got my Deity victory (and several losses/unfinished games), but can't say I enjoyed it.

I like my games a bit more varied, with a possibility of a complete change of strategy, so I've switched back to emperor or immortal. Emperor if I want try a peaceful game, Immortal if I want to fight. King felt too easy after grinding it out on Deity.

Long-time immortal player, for the past few weeks I've been dabbling with deity, some wins, mostly "chuck it in and try again." But then, I'm stubborn and play as I want to play the map, not the optimized strategy.

Meh. All the problems with the game are magnified 5x what you get with immortal without any corresponding benefit. Scrounge for everything, 2 civs always start at your doorstep, always coming from behind, hardly ever a decent map, forget ever seeing even a 2-iron deposit within 10 tiles, let alone horses, and endless backstabbing.

If you're a builder at heart and not a warmonger, there's very little satisfaction to be gained from deity--it's just ridiculously, obviously stacked against you, to the point where it truly crosses the line and insults your intelligence and sense of fair-play. After turn 90 you are guaranteed endless war and backstabbing, with little or no strategic resources, and the onslaught of cheap AI unit spam pretty much sums up the devs' vision of "how to make the game more difficult." Pffft.

Summa sumarum: Masochist Central.

Yeah! what fun!!!

I don't regularly play deity, though I do play it for achievements and such. Its not fun to me, plain and simple. The computer gets too many benefits for me to consider it a fair strategy game. It turns into a heavily handicapped game where I have to not enjoy it to win it seems. You are forced to game the game, and not play it how its meant to be played.

I posted yes, the reason being, I just can't bring myself to come down in levels having spent my last 1,500hrs playing Deity.

Because deity is so difficult...it forces us to play the game with a fairly canned set of tactics that are really only necessary (perhaps even only applicable) at deity level. It also forces us to find every single "loophole" or "exploit" of the AI's behavior in order to stand a chance.

You are talking about a canned set of Deity tactics that have been put together by clever mathematicians who post on this forum, the question is "could we ever have attained this level of play without them?" For my part I feel like a brainless clone because all the hard work has been done by others!

I enjoy peaceful games, for the most part, and the fact that the best way to win a deity game is via warmongering...it also limits my options for Civs as well and makes peaceful victories very difficult.

Try playing archipelago type maps if you want a peaceful game, I often manage to win without ever being at war, I also loose sometimes because trying to remain at peace is not allways the optimal way to go!

You are talking about a canned set of Deity tactics that have been put together by clever mathematicians who post on this forum, the question is "could we ever have attained this level of play without them?" For my part I feel like a brainless clone because all the hard work has been done by others!

Hear, hear!! But, you see, that's EXACTLY my point! The fact that you don't hold a candle in a deity game before arming yourself with those tactics (that folks with far more time than I who sat and crunched the numbers painstakingly came up with) is sad indeed. I am with you, until I posted a thread "deity woes" a while back, I had a really rough time on deity as well.

Try playing archipelago type maps if you want a peaceful game, I often manage to win without ever being at war, I also loose sometimes because trying to remain at peace is not always the optimal way to go!

I have done this, with Polynesia, and it was almost certain I would have won. But it was a complete snore-fest. It just wasn't enjoyable at all. I also feel like playing on an archipelago map is borderline "setting cooking" at deity difficulty.

I have done this, with Polynesia, and it was almost certain I would have won. But it was a complete snore-fest. It just wasn't enjoyable at all. I also feel like playing on an archipelago map is borderline "setting cooking" at deity difficulty.

It's definately cooking according to the experts, but lets face it, you can't have a peaceful game on a pangea map! I play some very odd type games where I set my own handicapping systems such as no RAs or no Wonder Building (the list of handicaps is endless). I play for my own satisfaction and as long as I am giving myself fresh challenges then I don't get bored! If you found Polynesia that much of a snore fest why not enable Policy Saving and don't allow yourself to take any?

I also voted no. I played long enough to get a win and the (meaningless) trophy, but I have much more fun at my comfort level, Emperor. The OP is right on about canned tactics sucking the fun right out of it.

Agreed with what most of the posters said, really. If your game becomes a chore and you're left at the mercy of the RNG, then it is simply not enjoyable anymore. I also find Immortal a decent challenge that is still playable. I am about 50/50 on Immortal, so I have a long way to go, but I really wonder if I will even bother. For me, Immortal is the last "reasonable" difficulty.

That said, however, I wouldn't mind having a deity win in my HoF. Maybe I'll just cook a set to achieve it ;)

you can't have a peaceful game on a pangea map!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10895040&postcount=9

I have mixed feelings when playing deity.

I never use any exploits like the former "sell the free building every turn"-exploit, the "resource pillaging"-exploit or "sell all resources before declaring war"
Usually I am not a warmonger. Without using exploits or an early DoW it´s nearly impossible to win the tech-race - at least for me.

While playing immortal as a builder I win more than 95% of my games. If the AI would use their victory-capability better my achievment ratio would drop to approximately 75%. That would be fine and I would cease from playing deity ... but as matters no stand my only option is to play furthermore as deity-builder and win ~10% of my games or to be always a warmonger.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10895040&postcount=9

I am impressed, what a fantastic performance. In light of this I will adjust my statement to - we are highly unlikely to be able to play a peaceful game on a Pangea map.

I am impressed, what a fantastic performance. In light of this I will adjust my statement to - we are highly unlikely to be able to play a peaceful game on a Pangea map.

Yeah those results are definitely not typical (but hats off to DaveMcW for an excellent showing). Coming from someone who plays a TON of peaceful games, maintaining peace successfully in a deity game is pretty tough, even if you play your cards right with diplomacy and bribing the right Civs to war...it doesn't guarantee anything. I've observed that deity AI are perfectly fine being at war with 2-3 Civs at once. And they are MUCH quicker to sue for peace with each other than they are you :p

Incidentally ColinTH I did a few Archipelago deity games last night and each time I had a neighbor either on my starting island or one island over. Still got the early DoW lol. I'm sure I could have rerolled enough to get a good start but the irony was classic :lol:

understand that deity is supposed to be uber-hard. The description says that only the best players in the world will be able to beat the game at this level. I have no problem with that, or with how the game designers accomplished making it harder (the huge advantages the AI have), but there are some effects of this that rub me the wrong way. Because deity is so difficult...it forces us to play the game with a fairly canned set of tactics that are really only necessary (perhaps even only applicable) at deity level. It also forces us to find every single "loophole" or "exploit" of the AI's behavior in order to stand a chance.



since when is deity hard?

building units and killing the AI isnt really a loophole or exploit in my eys and its easy at every lvl ...

well u can just go cult aswell as shown in Davs game or mine in the same GOTM

I've played about 5-7 deity games, won 2; for immortal those numbers are more like 10/6.

I think using what I've learned from players here, I could beat deity difficulty at least 30-40% of the time right now; that would obviously improve with time.

I respect a challenge and I have a ton of respect for the deity caliber players who dole out optimal play styles on a regular basis. These starts, rushes, build orders, and tech routes have been absolutely fundamental in increasing my understanding of the game.

That said, I hated deity. Not for the early and multiple DoW's, which were actually exciting. Neither did I dislike the huge AI bonuses. Really it came down to what Qalsip says in his OP. I like a lot of options in my playstyle.

For now, I prefer playing on Prince/King with a multitude of sub-optimal starts, SP combos, Wonder Spam etc. These lower difficulties give me the option of building wonders I don't even need, building only one type of unit, getting 150 population on a small map etc.

since when is deity hard?

building units and killing the AI isnt really a loophole or exploit in my eys and its easy at every lvl ...

well u can just go cult aswell as shown in Davs game or mine in the same GOTM

This quote is exactly what you have to deal at Deity. You can't do things half ways(tommy did build the GL for example and ''got all in'' like he said...personnally i think he got lucky because in my game the GL was built at turn 30 and it's impossible to build the GL at that time without some special ruins). You litterally need to ''castrate'' or ''rape'' the AI before they will.

Many luck factors are counsiderated. Have you met everyone before turn 70 to ensure enough traders? What about barbs bad luck? AI can settle in different places from different players on same map.

Or you can try to be the perfect little innocent girl and do right things to not be attacked at all.

Sincerely, some maps make things impossible or nearly impossible for a human brain. One thing is sure : You need luck somewhere, but you can reduce this luck factor from what we can see from tommy's and Dave's game.

I still not like Deity :lol:

You might check out Maltz' level 9 for an alternative to deity with fewer starting bonusses triggering early wars to an attempt at a more evenly balanced game towards middle and end.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=421634

I hate Deity but I play it because all other difficulty levels are too easy.

I don't normally play Deity since it effectively restricts your options to warmongering or playing on a water map and abusing the AI's inability to wage aquatic war. Plus you tend to rely on a good start to get anywhere at all.

deity is a joke. A special ed kid could win playing on deity. Civ 5 is a dumbed down joke that's has killed a great series. It's clear this game was designed to appeal to everyone who couldn't beat civ 4 on chieftain or who found civ 4 too complicated altogether. Thank you for ruining the series losers

deity is a joke. A special ed kid could win playing on deity. Civ 5 is a dumbed down joke that's has killed a great series. It's clear this game was designed to appeal to everyone who couldn't beat civ 4 on chieftain or who found civ 4 too complicated altogether. Thank you for ruining the series losers

Where have you been all this time? You sound like one of the World's great philosophers! Nice to see you have a sense of humour, your opening sentence is very funny!

deity can be too much.

its not the starting bonuses that are the problem. its the constant wave of units. but i suppose thats due to the bonuses

deity is a joke. A special ed kid could win playing on deity. Civ 5 is a dumbed down joke that's has killed a great series. It's clear this game was designed to appeal to everyone who couldn't beat civ 4 on chieftain or who found civ 4 too complicated altogether. Thank you for ruining the series losers

I like this guy.

Deity is far too difficult and I've got no intention to play it on any Civ game :)

I'll spend my time doing something fun instead :)

This quote is exactly what you have to deal at Deity. You can't do things half ways(tommy did build the GL for example and ''got all in'' like he said...personnally i think he got lucky because in my game the GL was built at turn 30 and it's impossible to build the GL at that time without some special ruins). You litterally need to ''castrate'' or ''rape'' the AI before they will.

Many luck factors are counsiderated. Have you met everyone before turn 70 to ensure enough traders? What about barbs bad luck? AI can settle in different places from different players on same map.

Or you can try to be the perfect little innocent girl and do right things to not be attacked at all.

Sincerely, some maps make things impossible or nearly impossible for a human brain. One thing is sure : You need luck somewhere, but you can reduce this luck factor from what we can see from tommy's and Dave's game.

I still not like Deity

I m near 100% sure that you can build 5 Longswords aswell - and thats really all u need to kill 2 civs (have never tried rush - but maybe even a 3-4 sword rush might work aswell to kill 1

after killing 2 civs stuff gets really easy imo

I just play hot-seat against myself, the challenge is a lot harder than deity.

Deity is fun for a one off, but for SP I would much rather play with house rules, not exploit the AI and pursue strategies I choose rather than take advantage of weaknesses in the AI programming. I find on Emporer I can play as I like, and if things go well I win, and if they don't go well I lose.

I understand why people like to push themselves, but to me it is like challenging your 12 year old brother to a game of basketball and then cheering when you beat him 50-0.

I already have a difficult job with repetitive tasks, I don't need another where I make sure to check for technologies to trade with every single civ every single turn, make sure to farm exp each turn, and make sure to attempt to bribe every turn.

I played diety one time for the achievement. I won, but only because I set up a game and map that I could win on. Normally I like to play continents, and there is no way I have the patience to put myself through a diety game on a continents map. I play Civ 5 to have fun, not to actually win the most difficult challange possible.

I've only won one game on deity, and only because I used a memory editor to cheat a cultural win for the achievement. That was a waste of time since you can just do a future era start duel island map where the AI is helpless against you and get the achievement even easier and faster.

I hate playing on Deity, every single time I try it all I end up doing is killing an endless...and I mean endless...stream of warriors around turn 20-30. The only Civ I can have any success with is Babylon because of the super archers, but it's still not fun.

I just play hot-seat against myself, the challenge is a lot harder than deity.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkuz6FXzNUFZeHMCSBVtOREf518_pby 0mjbylqJ2ni2x7UmmdtzRluMgL-Hg

Sorry, I couldn't resist :lol:

Though I'm not sure how this works - surely you know exactly what "antagonist you" is planning and how to counter it?

Agree, played a few deity wins to get the achieve, but Immortal is more fun.

I can take any start, however bad, and make it stick in immortal. I can go kick backstabbing ghandi in the family jewels because I feel like it even though it deviates from the plan. I can play odd scenarios like Monty's cultural warpath.