But wouldn't that then take the Hero concept away? OK i am lost again, sorry, i like both ways:help::dunno:

Well, what's really the difference between 'hero points' and 'GP points for a GP of type 'hero''. I'm just saying that the GP points mechanism already exists and by defining a GP type called hero you can simulate (more or less) hero points. All it would need would be small piece of Python to trap the onTrained() for the hero-GP and replace them with a specific hero unit wouldn't it?

I have to say however, I DO prefer a promotion-based scheme, and non-combat-earned promotions would be a nice concept to add to the game, which rounds out the promotion-based approach to address the points Hyrdo raised...of course that leads onto a potentially rather large debate (and ensuing effort) about the nature of non-combat-earned promotions...

I'd much prefer if Heroes advancement wasn't as much with combatXP as it is. It's WAY easy to build Nobles, Warlords, and such, and mass up XP on a Hero. Getting to the last and best Achievement that way would be very easy. Just have a new unit on the same plot as the Hero every time and have that unit lead by warlord upgrade, for shared XP for both units.
It would work if the "Led By" only gave the extra XP to the unit actually led by it...

I don't mind it being by either Combat (but not XP, amount of units killed instead then maybe) or non-combat, as long as it's not CombatXP based in any way.

I mentioned somewhere that a Hero could be a Great General too, or instead. That way gaining a certain level or amount of XP won't be based on direct combat, or on free XP gained from nobles line, but on combat scenarios where the Hero helped win fights.

The question then I suppose would be what to do with the current Great Generals, unless they are removed in lieu of those points being spent towards Heroes instead?

That would mean that Heroes came to those that fought a lot. Having Quests (like the on-it's-way new trait system) for the non-combat gain of heroes might be a solution. For instance every 3rd Golden Age a Civ enters it gets a Hero, or every 3rd City reaching Legendary Culture. Should be big things like that anyway.

Cheers

I have mentioned on a couple of other threads that I really like the hero units that have been added to the game - now I have spotted this thread I realise this is the appropriate place to say thank you.

Over 2 games (1 single player, and 1 hotseat against my husband) I have now built a few hero units and I love the unit graphics and buttons, and the promotions are interesting, it's often difficult to decide which promotion to go for because they all have some really good benefits. It now feels like a real achievement to build a culture wonder and then get access to the heroes!

One small question - is the hero unit information in an XML file? And if so where can I find that, or is it more complicated than that? This is going to sound silly but I have an ongoing joke with my husband regarding something that happened in our first C2C hotseat game, and it would be hilarious and very rewarding if I were able to add a hero unit specific to this running joke that would just show up in his list of available units next time we started up our hotseat game - it would be well worth a bit of work on my part just to see the look on his face. :o

If you were to use a hero unit as a template I don't think that making a modular hero would be too hard.

However what would be really cool is if somehow in the game you could make your own custom hero. I have no idea how this would be done.

If you were to use a hero unit as a template I don't think that making a modular hero would be too hard.

However what would be really cool is if somehow in the game you could make your own custom hero. I have no idea how this would be done.

I would like to do it the really cool way and design my own from scratch, but I cannot do graphics to save my life (IMO as you get older you realise there is some stuff you are just no good at, so concentrate on things you are good at because life is too short to spend ages trying to do things that you have no talent for badly!) the joke revolves around a Kannushi (Shinto Missionary) so I would just want to use that graphic for a hero unit, if all the properties and promotions info for hero units are in an XML file somewhere then I should be able to work the rest of it out if I can study that for a bit - so if someone can just point me in the direction of the folder and file I will probably be able to work it out (I'm much better at the logical stuff, it's the arty stuff that flummoxes me!)

I would like to do it the really cool way and design my own from scratch, but I cannot do graphics to save my life (IMO as you get older you realise there is some stuff you are just no good at, so concentrate on things you are good at because life is too short to spend ages trying to do things that you have no talent for badly!) the joke revolves around a Kannushi (Shinto Missionary) so I would just want to use that graphic for a hero unit, if all the properties and promotions info for hero units are in an XML file somewhere then I should be able to work the rest of it out if I can study that for a bit - so if someone can just point me in the direction of the folder and file I will probably be able to work it out (I'm much better at the logical stuff, it's the arty stuff that flummoxes me!)

All the heroes XML is in the core IIRC. The files to start in are CIV4UnitInfos, CIV4UnitClassInfos, and CIV4ArtDefines_Unit. You'll also need to make a gametext XML file, and add your module to the MLF. A few other quick notes; Make sure you name the Schema files something other than C2C_whatever, ie the units Schema should be called Epona_CIV4UnitSchema.xml or something similar. Don't make ArtDefines errors, as those can be hard to track. Good luck.

All the heroes XML is in the core IIRC. The files to start in are CIV4UnitInfos, CIV4UnitClassInfos, and CIV4ArtDefines_Unit. You'll also need to make a gametext XML file, and add your module to the MLF. A few other quick notes; Make sure you name the Schema files something other than C2C_whatever, ie the units Schema should be called Epona_CIV4UnitSchema.xml or something similar. Don't make ArtDefines errors, as those can be hard to track. Good luck.

Thank you that's very useful -I already considered that I would have to make a different naming convention, so that I could easily identify and track my own changes and move them from one version to another.

If I end up doing this OK and it works who knows I might end up volunteering to do some stuff for C2C (trying to do something you really want to see in the game for your own personal use, however ridiculous, is a good motivator to learn how to mod!) Just don't ask me to do anything artistic :eek:

Well not exactly correct, i have a few heroes in the modular format already, ie: Spartacus, Gladiator and The 300. Both Gladiator and Spartacus use events and python, so they would be bad examples, but the 300 is a darn good place to start, it is all by itself, and you can make ANY hero you want, actually what you want should be pretty easy, since the graphics are already in the game, then its just a matter of XML work. Good Luck and i hope you make him:crazyeye:

Hi,

As requested I'm posting my 'super heroes' ideas here. I should have done this first, but I didn't know this thread existed.

My idea would be for very powerful 'super heroes & Villians' with names such as Captain Marverlous, The Bulk, Dr Gloom and any other take on comic book heroes names. If at all possible, they should have different specs, maybe for movemet speed, flight, strength, defence, maybe a bombard option. For me, it would seem best if these heroes became available after the discovery of Homo Superior or similar. They would appear in the same way as great people. However, villians would appear as 'super barbarians', while heroes would be available to the player as 'super soldiers'. It might also be nice to some of both appearing as an 'event'.

Also, maybe a 'super hero' could build a special building in a city called "Super Base" which would increase the changes of 'super heroes' appearing slightly and maybe add to a cities defence.

I also don't know how possible it would be, but could 'super villians' be made to build a 'lair' as a terrain features whiich could spawn henchmen, which again would behave like barbarians.

I guess, it would be best to include this as an option as I'm sure 'super heroes' aren't to everyone's tastes.

Ok, those are my thoughts, it would be great to see it implemented, but I'm sure you're very busy with all the ideas.

Thanks again for this mod and thanks for reading.

I am going to stop you now. While we have alternative timelines, I have drawn the line at magic, super powers and paranormal stuff. Even with Homo Superior having a "super friends" group is just silly and should stay in the comic books and cartoons.

As for Trans-Human Heroes, I don't see why not if linked to a trans-human culture.

I think founding the Cyborg Justice League is no more fantastic or unreal than time travel or whatever the heck a "Dual-Flux Quantum Temporal Rift" is, but that's just my two Bat-cents.

OK, i am going to out the Apache Civ in the game, but here's my dilemma, The Apache were made up of so many different types of Apaches, and sine "we" are only using 2 at the present time, see attached and i need a suggestion on which 2 would be the best for the Heroes area, thx?

I vote for Geronimo (shame on you, remains abducting skull&bones-suckers, you won't be represented as heroes!) and Cochise.

Btw. can't we have villians as well? I liked to be able to fight some (barbaric) villians aside their generals... btw here's the soundtrack for that feature: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw6GNRdmx9Q

I vote for Geronimo (shame on you, remains abducting skull&bones-suckers, you won't be represented as heroes!) and Cochise.

Btw. can't we have villians as well? I liked to be able to fight some (barbaric) villians aside their generals... btw here's the soundtrack for that feature: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw6GNRdmx9Q

I think thats the "worse" song i have heard from them, just plain YUCK!!:thumbsdown:

When we get the villian traits in, sure, i have been looking into it, but am tied down at the present time.

I think thats the "worse" song i have heard from them, just plain YUCK!

Yeah the video is crap, I have to admit that... but the melody of that song is funny, somehow, in parts, imho. Don't know about the lyrics as I am no native speaker. When I hear german songs I almost instantly turn them off, so maybe I understand you.

There is one exception, though - but that may be due to the fact that a french girl sings and the lyrics are so anachronistic^^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf-n7YfRKqc&feature=related

[although it's not my favorite turn by her -
check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3_yFhQM8kM&feature=related),
this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwsTm7cRAV8&feature=related) and
this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3RwVOSpcVo) (very dirty song, a great show off of french humor and the melody reminded me of the beach boys "heroes and villians" as well)]

When we get the villian traits in, sure, i have been looking into it, but am tied down at the present time.

Really? Didn't know there were plans for a villian trait - great to hear!:goodjob:

Yeah the video is crap, I have to admit that... but the melody of that song is funny, somehow, in parts, imho. Don't know about the lyrics as I am no native speaker. When I hear german songs I almost instantly turn them off, so maybe I understand you.

ahh ok, i didnt like those songs either, sorry, i am more into Heavy Metal with a alot of bass and drums.

yeah I read a lot of (ex) military members like metal so, maybe the Abu Graibh & Guantanamo army affiliates just wanted to party with the inmates after all -- entertaining them with roaring metal day in-day out... Aside of my sarcasm, I like to listen to psych (things like "soft sounds for gentle people" compilations and stuff - yes, that's a real compilation :jesus:), while nourishing my habit of a black and white world with heroes and villians.

Hell, I even saw a suggestion of a lurker to include Alice Cooper to the planned 'go ask Alice' alternate timeline [which of course originally refered to Alice in Wonder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Ri_AV0RCo)land], now he's not really metal but he liked harder stuff. While in the clubs he didn't ask for replays often - but this one he liked and wanted to listen to it again, and maybe you do so, too^^

Riders Of The Mark - The Electronic Insides And Metal Complexion That Make Up Herr Doktor Krieg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8cjJQJaWMs)

Way to much "treble":p Got to be "Head Banger" stuff:rockon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvFpBOe8eY&ob=av3n this is about as heavy as I like to go :)

Way to much "treble":p Got to be "Head Banger" stuff:rockon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOOcJobuZTc

Sorry but music went down hill when Bach came on the scene.

So I called for Scottish civ before, and with Highlander special unit and Willaim Wallace for hero, did Willaime Walace ever get implemented?

@Strat, Make Red Cloud a hero or leader for sioux!!

So I called for Scottish civ before, and with Highlander special unit and Willaim Wallace for hero, did Willaime Walace ever get implemented?

@Strat, Make Red Cloud a hero or leader for sioux!!

Scotland is a Culture, and the Highlander is a unit for it as of last week. Wallace has not been made yet, but post about things like this in the New Heroes thread please. Thanks.

Just recognized:
Hamilcar Barca and Alara can still be settled as android worker.

Scotland is a Culture, and the Highlander is a unit for it as of last week. Wallace has not been made yet, but post about things like this in the New Heroes thread please. Thanks.

Burns as its second (non-military) hero maybe?

How about a New Zealand culture im sure all the kiwi's would appreciate that and it could help flesh out Oceania region

Scotland is a Culture, and the Highlander is a unit for it as of last week. Wallace has not been made yet, but post about things like this in the New Heroes thread please. Thanks.

I did post about Wallace... in the Hereos thread... which is this thread. :P This is the thread labaled Heroes, and my post was about a Hero....to many hero threads then lol.
Just messing, I'll make sure to throw you a line in the other heroes thread too next time. I think I put in idea/dissucssions last time.

I did post about Wallace... in the Hereos thread... which is this thread. :P This is the thread labaled Heroes, and my post was about a Hero....to many hero threads then lol.
Just messing, I'll make sure to throw you a line in the other heroes thread too next time. I think I put in idea/dissucssions last time.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing, but strat asked me to post a new heroes thread for this purpose, so I figure he had a reason for it.

Sorry it took me so long to get round to this. Cultures currently lacking one or both heroes:

Aborigine (no heroes)
Ainu (no heroes)
Aka (no heroes)
Apache (no heroes)
Banadanese (no heroes [or UU])
Basque (no heroes [or UU])
Bengali (no heroes)
Benin (no heroes)
Bermese (no heroes [or UU])
Cantonese (no heroes [or UU])
Carib (no heores)
Ceylonese (no heroes)
Cheroke (major hero, but no minor)
Cheyenne (no heroes)
Chumash (no heroes [or UU])
Comanche (no heroes)
Cree (no heroes)
Cuban (no heroes [or UU]) - Castro and Che Guevara?
Dutch - has FOUR heroes in my version but I'm slightly out fo date, and I think some were moved to Viking??
Franks (no heroes)
Fulani (no heroes [or UU])
Goth (no heroes)
Hattian (no heroes [or UU])
Herero (no hereroes ;) [or UU])
Hopi (no heroes [or UU])
Hun (minor hero only)
Huron (no heroes)
Inuit (no heroes)
Italian (no heroes)
Jivaro (no heroes [or UU])
Kanem-Bornu (no heroes)
Klamath (no heroes)
Luba (no heroes [or UU])
Manchurian (no heroes [or UU] ) - Confucius for non-military??
Maori (no heroes)
Mapuche (no heroes [or UU])
Masai (no heroes)
Merina (no heroes [or UU])
Mexican (no heroes)
Moraccan (no heroes [or UU]) - should this be Moroccan??
Mughal (no heroes [or UU])
Mutapa (no heroes)
Navajo (no heroes)
Nepal (no heores) - should be Nepalese??
Nootka (no heroes)
Olmec (no heroes)
Pakistani (no heroes)
Papuan (no heroes [or UU])
Parthian (no heroes [or UU])
Prussian (no heroes [or UU])
Quechua (no heroes [or UU])
Rapa Nui (no heroes [or UU])
Saxon (no heroes [or UU])
Scottish (no heroes) - has been discussed already and heroes suggested
Seminole (no heroes)
Somali (no heroes)
South African (no heroes [or UU]) - should this really be Afrikaans (sp?) and require Dutch or something (or was that not the culture you had in mind?)
Swazi (no heroes [or UU])
Swiss (no heroes)
Tamil (no heroes)
Thai (no heroes [or UU])
Toltec (no heroes)
Tuareg (no heroes)
Tupi (no heroes)
Vietnamese (no heroes)
Welsh (no heroes)
Zapotec (no heroes)


There are rather more of these than I realised! Anyway, if anyone has suggestiosn for any of them please post. I think Hydro is on top of the UUs (I know several of the above are recent additions, so represent a work-in-progress anyway)

@Hydro/Koshling: OK, that's a pretty long list.:run::joke:

I think I would like to refocus from the Promotions to try and clean up this list and get to adding more heroes and UUs. If anyone wants to post ideas, please feel welcome, look at my Units thread for the format of the ideas, that format makes things easier for me.

For Italian culture I suggest Garibaldi and Carlo Pedersoli, better known as Bud Spencer^^

As for Carib culture I don't know if names of their leaders survived their extinction, maybe modern heroes from carribean could be taken like Bob Marley and Harry Belafonte...

Mexico could have (mexican 'Robin Hood') Pancho Villa and Emiliano Zapata.

Swiss culture could have Wilhelm Tell and Arnold von Winkelried (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_von_Winkelried) as their heroes.

Sorry it took me so long to get round to this. Cultures currently lacking one or both heroes:

There are rather more of these than I realised! Anyway, if anyone has suggestiosn for any of them please post. I think Hydro is on top of the UUs (I know several of the above are recent additions, so represent a work-in-progress anyway)

I already know the ones that have no UU yet. I have been slowly planning those out. You can see them in the other thread or my signature.

Also the 20 newest cultures don't even have Wonders to build them yet. Its my least favorite part to do.

Swiss culture could have Wilhelm Tell and Arnold von Winkelried (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_von_Winkelried) as their heroes.

and Austrian could have another Arnold! I'll be back.

Swazi Hero - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbandzeni
http://www.swazi.com/mbabane2000/images/page27.gif
Papuan hero http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Somare
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Sir_Michael_Somare_-_2009.jpg
Papuan UU - Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_Wuzzy_Angels
Healer with forest movement + speed movement bonuses.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Kokoda_casualties_(AWM_013286).jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d6/Buna.jpg
**These guys were awesome, totally won the war in papa new guinea vs japs coz of these dudes. They ferried supplies and acted as guides and pathfinders for australian troops. They would also carry injuried back to camp on stretchers. The thing was, the terrain was horrendously bad, mountainous/jungle. Japan invaded from the north and chased australian troops towards port moresby at the south with lots of fighting along the way http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/Kokoda_location.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokoda_Track_Campaign#cite_note-13
Japan had like 110,000 ground troops vs australia's 25k but by the time they go to port moresby it was like 30k vs 10k thanks to these dudes.
The lack of supplies/ammunition and how any small injury would become way worse in these conditions meant deaths caused by malaria, starvation etc outnumbered actual combat deaths 10 to 1! so you can see these guys were uber good.. it was just a matter of slowing down the japanese as they advanced, the longer it took the the more screwed they were.. They even cooked australian troops to eat when they killed them coz there were no supply lines etc.
Cantonese Hero http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_Chonghuan
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8c/Yuan_Chonghuan.jpg
Manchurian Hero http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Sangui
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Wu_Sangui.jpg
Manchurian UU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zongli_Yamen
maybe Yongli Statesmen some sort of spy unit or infiltrator or diplomatic unit.
Maori Hero http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hone_Heke
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/HoneHeke1845.jpg

*merged*

*merged*

*merged*

*merged*

*merged*

*merged*

@Sgtslick it is usual to edit your post if it is the last in a thread and add your new stuff in there rather than having 7 in a row. If your post as a day or so ago then it is OK to have a new post. Just a bit of etiquette. ;)

@Sgtslick

Papuan already has the "Papuan Cannibals". And the Manchurian will have the "Manchurian Cavalry Archer" (I have not worked it all out yet).

In short leave the UU to me. Focus on the Heroes since I have no plans for them.

@DRJ and Sgtslick: Do you have any good graphics for those? They can just be graphics for a 'normal' unit, but I need some graphics otherwise nothing can be made.

With the amount of cultures and coming heroes I feel there are just a tad way too many. Each nation needs/wants a few to get the Achievements, a few for war, and a few for settling as GPs. There's a lot more than that available, although I suppose not all will be accessed in all games.
Anyway, having only 1 Hero per Culture would, in my opinion, suffice, and having those limited in which Achievements they can build (and when the various achievements can be built), just like they are limited in what GPs they can settle as.
It's not that it's too much, it's that it's too easy to get to, well, if actively attempting to get Cultures and their heroes anyway.

Cheers

With the amount of cultures and coming heroes I feel there are just a tad way too many. Each nation needs/wants a few to get the Achievements, a few for war, and a few for settling as GPs. There's a lot more than that available, although I suppose not all will be accessed in all games.
Anyway, having only 1 Hero per Culture would, in my opinion, suffice, and having those limited in which Achievements they can build (and when the various achievements can be built), just like they are limited in what GPs they can settle as.
It's not that it's too much, it's that it's too easy to get to, well, if actively attempting to get Cultures and their heroes anyway.

Cheers

Heroes are not even close to being done, it needs alot of balancing, and infact (hint hint) there will be villains also.:confused:

I just wondered if there were plans to include any more 'fictional' hero units (we have Lara Croft already but unless I am unaware of some others, she is a one-off), perhaps as an Alt-Timeline type thing. I have a few ideas floating around in my head but will only suggest them if there's a desire to have more fictional/Alt timeline heroes besides her!

I just wondered if there were plans to include any more 'fictional' hero units (we have Lara Croft already but unless I am unaware of some others, she is a one-off), perhaps as an Alt-Timeline type thing. I have a few ideas floating around in my head but will only suggest them if there's a desire to have more fictional/Alt timeline heroes besides her!

There was talk of some. Check the indivial threads for more info. Ex. Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon for Atomicpunk.

There was talk of some. Check the indivial threads for more info. Ex. Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon for Atomicpunk.

Cool, I am never quite sure though where stuff belongs in terms of the alt-timelines thing, and tend to suggest things on the wrong thread :o All the recent kangaroo additions (subdued kangaroos, having them make kangaroo herd buildings in cities etc.) brings Tank Girl to mind every bloomin' time I play the game (with the associated "wouldn't that be so cool...." thought! And then that spins off into more ideas, etc. A Judge Dredd unit would also be pretty great IMO :D ), but I don't know which of the alt-timeline threads each of my suggestions would belong in.

Back in the day it was either Steampunk (Edwardian/Victorian Era alternative tech stuff) or Cyberpunk (Futuristic/Post-Apocalyptic) - much like the music industry it's been subdivided into so many genres I don't know whether I'm coming or going, is it grindcore or thrashcore, who flippin' knows!!!! :D

@SO: Do you have any specific cultures you would like me to make heroes for next?

@SO: Do you have any specific cultures you would like me to make heroes for next?

Did i ever show you the civs i am going to add? Its like 100 of them??

Did i ever show you the civs i am going to add? Its like 100 of them??

Heroes bind to cultures, not to civs. Check the list I posted a month or so ago, which indicates a bunch of currently heroless cultures. I'd suggest taking any you fancy/can find good candidates for from those.

Heroes bind to cultures, not to civs. Check the list I posted a month or so ago, which indicates a bunch of currently heroless cultures. I'd suggest taking any you fancy/can find good candidates for from those.

Ok, here goes

Italian:

Caesar Borgia (Rennaisance)
Giuseppe Garibaldi (Industrial)


Franks:

Pepin the Great (Medieval)
Clovis I (Classical)


Can anyone think of good graphics for these, or should I just use generic graphics from other units for them?

Ok, here goes

Italian:

Caesar Borgia (Rennaisance)
Giuseppe Garibaldi (Industrial)


Franks:

Pepin the Great (Medieval)
Clovis I (Classical)


Can anyone think of good graphics for these, or should I just use generic graphics from other units for them?

Best thing to do is, first see if one exists in the units we already have, no need to have two units of the same thing, if not then add what is needed, best to Check some of FfH2 stuff also. And Warhammer.

StrategyOnly would it be possible to link some of the non-achievement heroes to the Great Commander option. In my last game I had 52 GGs settled in my military city. I do not play with Great Commanders on.

If you use
<UnitInfo>
<Class>UNITCLASS_....</Class>
<Type>UNIT_....</Type>
<PrereqGameOption>GAMEOPTION_GREAT_COMMANDERS</PrereqGameOption>

...
</UnitInfo>


on some of the hero units then people who don't play with Great Commanders on wil not get so many GGs settled in their cities.

StrategyOnly would it be possible to link some of the non-achievement heroes to the Great Commander option. In my last game I had 52 GGs settled in my military city. I do not play with Great Commanders on.

If you use
<UnitInfo>
<Class>UNITCLASS_....</Class>
<Type>UNIT_....</Type>
<PrereqGameOption>GAMEOPTION_GREAT_COMMANDERS</PrereqGameOption>

...
</UnitInfo>


on some of the hero units then people who don't play with Great Commanders on will not get so many GGs settled in their cities.

I would really want to know how the HECK you play, i dont use but maybe 2 for a whole game. Just like you said about Heroes, i am lucky if i get 3-5 per game??
But i haven't in the last 2 months made it past Industrial either (well actually hardly to the end of Classical really). Too many changes i need to keep up on.

Well i tell you what, you pick out the so called "loners" and have at it (actually never seen nor heard of that tag:blush: there before) , that might bring another enhancement then to the Heroes flight. . . (yes i meant FLIGHT) as in continuing saga. . . ;) You know you are one of the ones i do trust here on C2C.

Anyone can actually do anything to any of the stuff that i "supposedly" do, EXCEPT i dont want anyone touching the FPK's is all.

I have not gotten to Industrial recently. When I conquer someone, I build their culture building in one of their cities then look at all my cities to see if any "new" cultures are available and then build them. Once I have I give back the city that built the culture to my vassal.

I should work on the vassal wonder so that it gives you the base culture of your vassal as well as giving money to your vassal each time to keep it in the game.

DH brought up a thought. Perhaps some Heroes could be defaulted AS Great Commanders (and only appear if the option is on.) In some cases this would be incredibly appropriate. I'm also wondering... is it possible for a Great Commander to also be a combat unit themselves?

Oh, and this:
I should work on the vassal wonder so that it gives you the base culture of your vassal as well as giving money to your vassal each time to keep it in the game.
is a GREAT idea!

OK, I have tidied up the code a bit including moving the speed stuff into the init part of the code. When writing code it is better to use one variable for a value rather than three. So instead of iGoldStollen, iGoldMax and iGoldMin. Just use iGoldStollen and give it the min and max values when needed. Similarly it makes it easier to maintain the code if you don't then use iGoldMax to mean maximum espionage or maximum research. Anyway I have tidied up the gold and espionage code to make it a bit clearer what is going on. Please test these changes and if they work put it on the SVN.

The research bit is complete rubbish. It refers to two different values getCurrentResearch() and calculateBaseNetResearch () does tests on one but calculations on the other. Then it ignores these tests and calculations and it adds the winner's value to the winner and subtracts the loser's value from the loser, so that the winner may get more or less than what the loser looses.:crazyeye: I miss read this part. I get back to you on it.

Edit Attached includes a research fix and tidy up. Basically it now is based on the looser's current research now.

OK, I have tidied up the code a bit including moving the speed stuff into the init part of the code. When writing code it is better to use one variable for a value rather than three. So instead of iGoldStollen, iGoldMax and iGoldMin. Just use iGoldStollen and give it the min and max values when needed. Similarly it makes it easier to maintain the code if you don't then use iGoldMax to mean maximum espionage or maximum research. Anyway I have tidied up the gold and espionage code to make it a bit clearer what is going on. Please test these changes and if they work put it on the SVN.

The research bit is complete rubbish. It refers to two different values getCurrentResearch() and calculateBaseNetResearch () does tests on one but calculations on the other. Then it ignores these tests and calculations and it adds the winner's value to the winner and subtracts the loser's value from the loser, so that the winner may get more or less than what the loser looses.:crazyeye: I miss read this part. I get back to you on it.

Edit Attached includes a research fix and tidy up. Basically it now is based on the looser's current research now.


Thx a million:

What does these lines actually do??

## Sneak initialization
global giSneakPromotion
giSneakPromotion = gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_SNEAK1')

## Marauder initialization
global giMarauderPromotion
giMarauderPromotion = gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_MARAUDER1'):

## Marauder initialization
global giIndusPromo
giIndusPromo = gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_INDUSTRYESPIONA GE1')

They store the information from the getInfoType... in a variable that can then be used later. That way you only do the call once rather than every combat. It is a very small saving in time.
Dang there is a : on the end of the middle one and there should not be.

They store the information from the getInfoType... in a variable that can then be used later. That way you only do the call once rather than every combat. It is a very small saving in time.
Dang there is a : on the end of the middle one and there should not be.

I took out the : but i now get this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BugConfig", line 110, in unknown_endtag
File "BugConfig", line 334, in endChild
File "BugConfig", line 337, in end
File "BugConfig", line 318, in process
File "BugConfig", line 565, in handle
File "BugUtil", line 643, in getFunction
File "BugUtil", line 630, in lookupFunction
File "BugUtil", line 622, in lookupModule
File "<string>", line 35, in load_module
File "<string>", line 13, in _get_code
File "Heroes", line 124

elif

^

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

This is th problem when I can't test stuff :(. I'll try and get c2C working and then give you a tested version, or put it on the SVN.

This is th problem when I can't test stuff :(. I'll try and get c2C working and then give you a tested version, or put it on the SVN.

Whats going on with your PC??

Who knows. :mischief: In the meantime try this one.

Still got this error, sorry:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BugEventManager", line 363, in _handleDefaultEvent
File "Heroes", line 195, in onUnitPromoted
NameError: global name 'iMarauderPromo' is not defined

Try this. I still don't have c2c working so I can't do even the simplest test. :(

Try this. I still don't have c2c working so I can't do even the simplest test. :(

No offense but is it just that you cant get YOUR copy working, like trying an export of the SVN to your PC?? See i am not understanding your point is all.:crazyeye:

He's been discussing the problem with us in the bugs and crashes thread.

Try this. I still don't have c2c working so I can't do even the simplest test. :(

Now my MAIN PC is down also, cant get it to work, so i have to revert back to my XP PC, YUCK!!:sad:

Now my MAIN PC is down also, cant get it to work, so i have to revert back to my XP PC, YUCK!!:sad:
Ohno! What happened to it?

Ohno! What happened to it?

Dont know, it starts up gets to the Desktop and just stalls there, cant do anything at all, nothing:sad:

Sounds like a nasty little virus. Maybe you could sub your harddrive to the other computer and do a virus scan on it with AVG or whatever most up to date virus scanner you can find. You might be able to eliminate the problem with a little online research on whatever virus you find on there.

Does it load up in safe mode at all? (usually hitting f8 on loadup will give you the option but that can vary by system of course)

Sounds like a nasty little virus. Maybe you could sub your harddrive to the other computer and do a virus scan on it with AVG or whatever most up to date virus scanner you can find. You might be able to eliminate the problem with a little online research on whatever virus you find on there.

Does it load up in safe mode at all? (usually hitting f8 on loadup will give you the option but that can vary by system of course)

Same thing in safe mode.

I would really want to know how the HECK you play, i dont use but maybe 2 for a whole game. Just like you said about Heroes, i am lucky if i get 3-5 per game??

In 2 words : Great Farmer
Plant what you need to have a non-build culture.
With this, I can often have 30% of culture for myself, 30% for others and 40% never-built, often because of desert or jungle needed in city vicinity, or because prereq are just Oo (like Egyptian Stone AND Desert AND Flood-Plain AND religion...)
Of course, you have these heroes too late for fight, but you can use them to have a great people

But even without great farme, I often have more than 2-3 culture, but I play with assimilation, so I can often build culture from 4 continents

Can we make heroes auto build after their req. are met. I dont like the idea that i can build a hero. For me hero should born like a great people does. nother reson is that hero units make a mess in city build list because there are plenty of them.

Taking what LumenAngel said maybe we should add correct era to the hero req. Ex leonidas can be born only on ancient.

hero units make a mess in city build list because there are plenty of them.
I highly recommend using BUG's UI filtering options to not show buildings or units that aren't constructable. That's the row of buttons above the build list in the city screen.

Assimilation does make a huge difference in the number of Culture wonders you can build. My current game, I've got 4 Native Cultures as well, and something like 75% of the possible cultures as a result of Great Farmers.

Anyway, heroes. Spartacus is incredibly overpowered if you get him via event. One in four combat victories produces a Gladiator, which can be settled as a Great Military Instructor. If Spartacus finds a suitable target to farm and survives long enough for the first couple of promotions, he rapidly turns even the greenest of recruits into a nigh-invincible war god.

SO my proposal is

1 Add era as a req for all heroes (removes posibility to build it thanks to great farmer)

2 Hero will live only on that era (if you change era he wiil automaticly die - game balance)

3 Auto build heroes when all req. are full filled (will work like great people)

This will change heroes gameplay enought to make them balanced

SO my proposal is

1 Add era as a req for all heroes (removes posibility to build it thanks to great farmer)

2 Hero will live only on that era (if you change era he wiil automaticly die - game balance)

3 Auto build heroes when all req. are full filled (will work like great people)

This will change heroes gameplay enought to make them balanced

I like 1 and 2. 3 I am on the fence about.

I like 1 and 2. 3 I am on the fence about.

Achievements are supposed to be what Heroes turn into after the era they are combat-useful in. IMO they shouldn't automatically die at the end of an era.

In one of the other mods heroes were auto born and died after a number of turns. Invariably the military heroes would be born far from your front lines and die before getting into their first battle. :(

@DH

In that mod you are talking they live only 25 turns. Entire era is much longer and you as a player decide when to enter to next era.

@ls612

Very nice strategy. But it is fair only if AI doing the same. I dubt. I am 99.99% sure that AI dont use such strategy.

@all

At a first step implement point 1 add era req. to heroes to avoid exploit by great farmer.

@DH

In that mod you are talking they live only 25 turns. Entire era is much longer and you as a player decide when to enter to next era.

@ls612

Very nice strategy. But it is fair only if AI doing the same. I dubt. I am 99.99% sure that AI dont use such strategy.

@all

At a first step implement point 1 add era req. to heroes to avoid exploit by great farmer.

Should be easy enough to tell the AI about, if it doesn't do it already.

Should be easy enough to tell the AI about, if it doesn't do it already.

The AI already evaluates whether to use as a military unit or if its better to do the achievement. Where the AI fails is (having decided to use it militarily) keeping it alive long enough to reach retirement (the AI will switch it from military duties to achievement building as it becomes less significant militarily already IF it lives).

I have some changes in track which will cause the AI to be more careful with its more important and unique units than it currently is. They should be going into the SVN in the next couple of weeks.

I'm not entirely clear on what you mean by 'avoid exploit by Great Farmer', and how an era requirement affects that. All heroes already have a tech requirement to be built, after all. Unless you mean you want a way to prevent them from being built past a certain point, in order to prevent someone from building obsolete heroes just to settle as Great Military Instructors. That I agree with for balance reasons.

Although, if you can afford to devote hundreds of hammers and dozens of turns to Great Farmers to set up for culture wonders, you've probably already got a runaway victory. I think I've only had one game where heroes actually turned a losing war into a winning one.

Yes i want to prevent from building obsolete heros. In my current game i have 40 military instructors in one city that with bildings give me above 100 xp (10 promotions) to new units. I am not counting free promotions from buildings.

10 free promotions is too big bonus so i want to do something to avoid it.

Yes i want to prevent from building obsolete heroes. In my current game i have 40 military instructors in one city that with buildings give me above 100 xp (10 promotions) to new units. I am not counting free promotions from buildings.

10 free promotions is too big bonus so i want to do something to avoid it.

What are you exploiting to get 40 MI??

@startegyonly

1 I put every great general as military instructor to this city.
2 I put every hero as military instructor to this city (after i build all achivements)

I play without asimilation but even then i had a lot of heroes units (after capture enemy city i get new culture and built old heroes)

@strategy. What are think about points 1,2,3? You are the master ;)

@startegyonly

1 I put every great general as military instructor to this city.
2 I put every hero as military instructor to this city (after i build all achievements)

I play without assimilation but even then i had a lot of heroes units (after capture enemy city i get new culture and built old heroes)

@strategy. What are think about points 1,2,3? You are the master ;)

No offense, but i have been holding off on alot of stuff lately, and i dont like to talk that much on here, because alot of people think when i say something , that that's it, when in actuality its not, that's what Team Work is all about, anyways,

I am really waiting for Koshlings BIG AI changes he is going to do, i know its going to take awhile, but i am hoping that the AI can out think the human player (well or at least as close as possible). Then re-work stuff, because if he can do that it will change EVERYTHING in the game or re-balancing etc.

If you haven't noticed the re-balancing of SOME of the AI already, especially the Theif's/Rogues/Assassins line, i am really liking that change alot.

1. But getting back to the stuff that is there now, i dont know about the "era" stuff, because the way i have it set-up now you really get the Hero alot later (in MOST cases) that is for str. The Great Farmer is NOT intended for such that purpose, and i dont use it as such either, besides i hadn't made it that far in like 15 games yet.

2. Dying, i never even will consider that point of view, i just dont like it, that why i have the achievement to go with each one. I can always add more, but i am out of ideas on how to do it.

3. I dont quite understand 3, on the auto-building of Heroes? When i am playing, i am luck if i get at the most 4 heroes per game. (Mainly because i play like a newbie) when playing it feels and makes things more interesting rather than figuring out ways to exploit stuff, Just My Personal Opinion is all. I say to myself if i was in-charge of this civ, what would i do (RL), not game wise).

It is really hard nowadays to keep-up with everything because the modders that are with C2C, I believe are the BEST there is right now working with Civ IV. IMHO;)
I would put these guy's up against any of SID's people, and i bet we'd win, (except the graphics artist) we are at a loss there.

You are the best civ 4 mod team ever.

The game that i have 40 military instructors is my first in C2C. I want only have stuff as balanced as possible so this was my proposal how to do it.

I spent a lot of time thinking what made my game (at monarch) so easy. And i have some conclusions and my goal is eliminate as much unbalanced stuff that can be exploit as possible . I dont want to do it by artificial restrictions (like only 3 military instructors per city) but i want to implament ideas that make game balanced and fit to realism (connect hero to era fit perfect to my way of thinking).

This is the best civ mod i ever play. I am very greatful to all of mod team.

@strategy - i understand your point of view and i respect it but if the era restriction is not a big deal to you please say that is ok for you.

Your TEAM are the best civ 4 mod team ever.

The game that i have 40 military instructors is my first in C2C. I want only have stuff as balanced as possible so this was my proposal how to do it.

I spent a lot of time thinking what made my game (at monarch) so easy. And i have some conclusions and my goal is eliminate as much unbalanced stuff that can be exploit as possible . I dont want to do it by artificial restrictions (like only 3 military instructors per city) but i want to implement ideas that make game balanced and fit to realism (connect hero to era fit perfect to my way of thinking).

This is the best civ mod i ever play. I am very grateful to all of mod team.

@strategy - i understand your point of view and i respect it but if the era restriction is not a big deal to you please say that is ok for you.

Like i said i will wait for the AI changes, is all, then lets go from there ok, never know, i might give in....:mischief:

You are the best civ 4 mod team ever.

The game that i have 40 military instructors is my first in C2C. I want only have stuff as balanced as possible so this was my proposal how to do it.
The main balance problem in your case is that you got too many heroes (which might be the AI not focusing on them enough or some other reason). But if mass military instructors is still too strong after that balance point is improved, it could get diminishing return (although because of the XP to level relationship there is already a kind of diminishing return) or military instructors could slightly increase hammer cost of units.

I regularly wind up with obscene numbers of GMIs in my military city as well. Last game (v25, Emperor, Pangaea, Small), my new-build units were up to 200+ XP by the time I hit Industrial, with only maybe 40 of that from settling Heroes. Admittedly, I pretty much had the game won by the time I hit Renaissance. I do play with Assimilation on, mostly because I like using UUs and it gives more of a feel of a large multicultural empire, but by the time I manage to build more than maybe 2 or 3 cultures' Heroes, the game is usually already decided.

Part of that may be because I play small maps, on account of my laptop being about 5 years old and none too great to begin with. On larger maps, I imagine it's more likely that an AI civilization will manage to snowball on its own continent and pose a credible mid/late-game threat. A larger map would also make having just one city responsible for military production less viable.

Spartacus is massively more exploitable for GMIs than Heroes/Great Farmers, if you're lucky enough to get him. Getting a Gladiator every 3-4 turns isn't difficult if you're careful and patient. I really, really think Gladiators need the GMI settlement removed or reworked. Perhaps have them build a special building or buildings instead of directly settling, thus putting a limit on the boost they can provide to any given city?

As for GMIs, I'm not really a fan of having them cut military production directly. It just seems a bit too counter-intuitive, even if it does allow for a good quality versus quantity effect. I can't really think of any good solutions at the moment that don't feel artificial though.

or military instructors could slightly increase hammer cost of units.
You know? That's an outstanding idea I think. Quality training increases training time and lends to a good balance concept.

You know? That's an outstanding idea I think. Quality training increases training time and lends to a good balance concept.

Personally I don't really like this idea. Either it has no real effect (it's still OP to stack large numbers of instructors) or else there is some (inobvious to me at least) decision criteria when you should stop piling more instructors in. If the former is true we don't achieve anything. If the latter is true we have to come up with good criteria for the AI to use or we'll just be disadvantaging it further.

Personally I think there should just be a limit on the effectiveness of stacked instructors (represented by a cap). After all, in real life having 10 tutors in a subject isn't likely to be significantly beneficial over having 9 (assuming they are basically of the same quality, so at best giving slightly different perspectives and areas of expertise)

Personally I think there should just be a limit on the effectiveness of stacked instructors (represented by a cap). After all, in real life having 10 tutors in a subject isn't likely to be significantly beneficial over having 9 (assuming they are basically of the same quality, so at best giving slightly different perspectives and areas of expertise)

I never even thought about that, that sounds very reasonable.

Spartacus is massively more exploitable for GMIs than Heroes/Great Farmers, if you're lucky enough to get him. Getting a Gladiator every 3-4 turns isn't difficult if you're careful and patient. I really, really think Gladiators need the GMI settlement removed or reworked. Perhaps have them build a special building or buildings instead of directly settling, thus putting a limit on the boost they can provide to any given city?

Totally agrre with the Spartacus problem. Have them able to build Gladiator school instead of GMI would be fine.

About heroes, in v25, no "modern" promotion? Like a chance to intercept and a bonus vs helico (strategist can give a bonus against hunter and animals instead), or a promotion giving bonus against wheeled and track units?

Personally I think there should just be a limit on the effectiveness of stacked instructors (represented by a cap). After all, in real life having 10 tutors in a subject isn't likely to be significantly beneficial over having 9 (assuming they are basically of the same quality, so at best giving slightly different perspectives and areas of expertise)

But can you make the number of stacking GMI chooseable in the BUG Options?

Totally agree with the Spartacus problem. Have them able to build Gladiator school instead of GMI would be fine.

Dang you guys are good at finding things, i have known about this for quite a few months, and enjoyed this part, i just didnt want anyone else to find out, BUT here it is now out in the open, darn. That was how i made about five cities with six MI in each for military unit promotions, again DARN:p:rolleyes:

Dang you guys are good at finding things, i have known about this for quite a few months, and enjoyed this part, i just didnt want anyone else to find out, BUT here it is now out in the open, darn. That was how i made about five cities with six MI in each for military unit promotions, again DARN:p:rolleyes:

I think, it was the FIRST big thing i find in balance (in v20, the first time I played C2C).
That and the Leonidas - 300 glitch (can be upgraded, can be load in Caravel)...

I have had over 40 military instructors also. My suggestion is to turn off military only heroes if the game option Great Commanders is off. That will reduce the number of heroes for those of us who don't play "war".

Totally agrre with the Spartacus problem. Have them able to build Gladiator school instead of GMI would be fine.

I'd rather have them create a unique building of some sort rather than one that's buildable normally, but yeah, something along those lines.

Another thing to consider is something along the lines of the Doctrines or Traditions from Realism Invinctus (I think). Have Military Heroes unable to settle as GMIs, but give them the ability to create another building or wonder that gives a more manageable boost to military units. Obsoletion also becomes a possibility, then.

Another somewhat more flavorful way to limit the number of usable GMIs per city could be to instead have them create a chain of buildings, similar to FfH's Altar of the Luonnatar, that then provide the experience instead. Although, this wouldn't be as customizable by the player as a straightforward limit on the number of settled GMIs in a city.

A little something form my suggestion list:
Erwin Rommel (Hero unit)
One of the two heroes who use a tank as their unit model. I'm proposing a few changes that will bring him in line with normal tank units.
Suggestions: Change starting ability to Lieutenant (equivalent of Blitz), increase Movement to 4

George Patton (Hero unit)
One of the two heroes who use a tank as their unit model. I have major beef with the fact that he uses graphics for BT-7. A SOVIET light tank.
Suggestions: Change graphics to those of a US Tank, namely the Chafee http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305660 . Increase Movement to 4.

The 300 Spartans
This unit is odd. Not only is it the only example of a hero's retinue having its own special unit, but it is upgradeable to Flailman. VERY unusual combination.
Suggestion: Remove upgrade, change name to Achilles (or some other Greek hero).

Another somewhat more flavorful way to limit the number of usable GMIs per city could be to instead have them create a chain of buildings, similar to FfH's Altar of the Luonnatar, that then provide the experience instead. Although, this wouldn't be as customizable by the player as a straightforward limit on the number of settled GMIs in a city.

I love the idea. A special National Wonder like Military Tradition
Lvl1 : +1 XP for all units in all cities
Lvl2 : +1 XP for all units in all cities, +1 Culture from barracks/Garrison in all cities
Lvl3 : +1 XP for all units in all cities, +2 Culture from barracks/Garrison in all cities, +10% chance to have great general
Lvl4 : +2 XP for all units in all cities, +3 Culture from
barracks/Garrison in all cities, +15% chance to have great general, +10% defense in all cities
Lvl5 :+ 2 XP for all units in all cities, +4 Culture from barracks/Garrison in all cities, +20% chance to have great general, , +20% defense in all cities, heroes have chance to cheat death
Lvl6 :+2 XP for all units in all cities, +5 Culture from barracks/Garrison in all cities, +25% chance to have great general, , +30% defense in all cities, heroes have chance to cheat death, start a Golden Age

Or we can add military doctrnes or traditions (from realism invictus) to great generals that unlocks new promotions lines to units.

This ideas (lumen mine and add era req. Heroes) should reduce the number of GMI in city.

what about military traditions or military doctrines
from wiki about war
military operations
Blitzkrieg · Deep Battle · Maneuver warfare · Operational manoeuvre group

@LumenAngel and Nimek I like your ideas but they need a bit more thought. Assuming the national wonder "Military Tradition" is not available until warfare tech what do you do with the GG's you get before this?

My suggestion:-

1) Combat against animals has diminishing returns when it comes to generating a GG. Once you have your first GG animal points only count half and when you have your second they don't count at all.

2) Similarly for barbarian combat but the reduction starts at your fifth GG and stops at your 10th.

3) You can only settle 2 GGs as instructors in a city without "Military Tradition" National wonder. You can settle 2 as instructors per level of "Military Tradition". We need a better name than level. Except the last where you can settle as many as you like.Lvl1 : +1 XP for all units in all cities
Lvl2 : +1 XP for all units in all cities, +1 Culture from barracks/Garrison in all cities
Lvl3 : +1 XP for all units in all cities, +2 Culture from barracks/Garrison in all cities, +10% chance to have great general
Lvl4 : +2 XP for all units in all cities, +3 Culture from barracks/Garrison in all cities, +15% chance to have great general, +10% defense in all cities
Lvl5 :+ 2 XP for all units in all cities, +4 Culture from barracks/Garrison in all cities, +20% chance to have great general, , +20% defense in all cities, heroes have chance to cheat death
Lvl6 :+2 XP for all units in all cities, +5 Culture from barracks/Garrison in all cities, +25% chance to have great general, , +30% defense in all cities, heroes have chance to cheat death, start a Golden Age
This way you can still specialise your cities but your general war prepairedness is good too. Maybe other military National and Great Wonders could require these?

4) Military Doctrines.

Inspirated by DH idea of Tales of animals i post my idea:

Tale of <hero name>
- auto build in every city when hero will die in battle
- +1 :culture: with oral tradition
- +1 :culture: with tablets
- +1 :culture: with books
- +1 :culture: with some digital resource that have the same role as book
- + 1 xp in the same era that hero died
- + some morale bonus in the same era (active when we have morale)

Think about Leonidas and 300. They died but the legend about their courage live even today (culture).
Think what the greek wariors felt when they heard about their hero courage. They become better fighters thanks to that (xp and morale points)

Inspirated by DH idea of Tales of animals i post my idea:

Tale of <hero name>
- auto build in every city when hero will die in battle
- +1 :culture: with oral tradition
- +1 :culture: with tablets
- +1 :culture: with books
- +1 :culture: with some digital resource that have the same role as book
- + 1 xp in the same era that hero died
- + some morale bonus in the same era (active when we have morale)

Think about Leonidas and 300. They died but the legend about their courage live even today (culture).
Think what the greek wariors felt when they heard about their hero courage. They become better fighters thanks to that (xp and morale points)

Well, their story was relatively unknown until Frank Miller made a comic book about them and they weren't widely known until the movie. How many people today know about Xenophon of Athens? And he was not only a soldier, but also a writer and philosopher, who is taught about in Greek History 101.

Well, their story was relatively unknown until Frank Miller made a comic book about them

???. Sorry but you dont have right. In every school in europe on history lessons you will hear about leonidas and the 300 hundred. In our culture we have also a lot of movies and boks abou their story. So we schould add also

+ 1 :culture: with hit movies

How many people today know about Xenophon of Athens?

I dont. But i know Pitagoras, socrates, platon, euqlides to name only a few of them. But you don catch the point of this clue.
Do you know Alexander the Great. Hammurabi. Julius Cezar.

1) Combat against animals has diminishing returns when it comes to generating a GG. Once you have your first GG animal points only count half and when you have your second they don't count at all.

2) Similarly for barbarian combat but the reduction starts at your fifth GG and stops at your 10th.

Barbarian GG is an option.
I think that if you use it, you know you will have (you and AI) more GG.
If you play without greast Commander options (because AI dont use well), yes, you will have a certain number of GMI. But the player knows this and wants them early game.

Another idea would be GG can research Military tech (all *** warfare tech, all tech allowing only military units and building). With this, you will reduce number of GMI too.

Limiting the amount of GGs that can be put in a city... whew that would definitely bring about some shifts in strategy!!! Probably not a bad idea but I do say that rather reluctantly. Still, I'd be able to overcome any irritations with it with some other now developed systems in the combat mod and would love the overall effect of forcing you to really plan multiple combat production cities.

Maybe the limit itself should be a value that can be manipulated by various wonders and buildings and perhaps would grow naturally with the culture level in the city. (Finally linking cultural expansion to military strength.)

Personally I don't really like this idea. Either it has no real effect (it's still OP to stack large numbers of instructors) or else there is some (inobvious to me at least) decision criteria when you should stop piling more instructors in. If the former is true we don't achieve anything. If the latter is true we have to come up with good criteria for the AI to use or we'll just be disadvantaging it further.

Personally I think there should just be a limit on the effectiveness of stacked instructors (represented by a cap). After all, in real life having 10 tutors in a subject isn't likely to be significantly beneficial over having 9 (assuming they are basically of the same quality, so at best giving slightly different perspectives and areas of expertise)

@LumenAngel and Nimek I like your ideas but they need a bit more thought. Assuming the national wonder "Military Tradition" is not available until warfare tech what do you do with the GG's you get before this?

My suggestion:-

1) Combat against animals has diminishing returns when it comes to generating a GG. Once you have your first GG animal points only count half and when you have your second they don't count at all.

2) Similarly for barbarian combat but the reduction starts at your fifth GG and stops at your 10th.

3) You can only settle 2 GGs as instructors in a city without "Military Tradition" National wonder. You can settle 2 as instructors per level of "Military Tradition". We need a better name than level. Except the last where you can settle as many as you like.
This way you can still specialise your cities but your general war prepairedness is good too. Maybe other military National and Great Wonders could require these?

4) Military Doctrines.

Inspirated by DH idea of Tales of animals i post my idea:

Tale of <hero name>
- auto build in every city when hero will die in battle
- +1 :culture: with oral tradition
- +1 :culture: with tablets
- +1 :culture: with books
- +1 :culture: with some digital resource that have the same role as book
- + 1 xp in the same era that hero died
- + some morale bonus in the same era (active when we have morale)

Think about Leonidas and 300. They died but the legend about their courage live even today (culture).
Think what the greek wariors felt when they heard about their hero courage. They become better fighters thanks to that (xp and morale points)

Well, their story was relatively unknown until Frank Miller made a comic book about them and they weren't widely known until the movie. How many people today know about Xenophon of Athens? And he was not only a soldier, but also a writer and philosopher, who is taught about in Greek History 101.

???. Sorry but you dont have right. In every school in europe on history lessons you will hear about leonidas and the 300 hundred. In our culture we have also a lot of movies and boks abou their story. So we schould add also

+ 1 :culture: with hit movies



I dont. But i know Pitagoras, socrates, platon, euqlides to name only a few of them. But you don catch the point of this clue.
Do you know Alexander the Great. Hammurabi. Julius Cezar.

Barbarian GG is an option.
I think that if you use it, you know you will have (you and AI) more GG.
If you play without greast Commander options (because AI dont use well), yes, you will have a certain number of GMI. But the player knows this and wants them early game.

Another idea would be GG can research Military tech (all *** warfare tech, all tech allowing only military units and building). With this, you will reduce number of GMI too.

Limiting the amount of GGs that can be put in a city... whew that would definitely bring about some shifts in strategy!!! Probably not a bad idea but I do say that rather reluctantly. Still, I'd be able to overcome any irritations with it with some other now developed systems in the combat mod and would love the overall effect of forcing you to really plan multiple combat production cities.

Maybe the limit itself should be a value that can be manipulated by various wonders and buildings and perhaps would grow naturally with the culture level in the city. (Finally linking cultural expansion to military strength.)

Dang i finally get alot of ideas/suggestions and my PC went POOF, having a heck of a time for some reason getting everything to work properly again on the newer PC, so if anyone in the modders section wants to take over this, please do so, just let me know in a PM or something, thx, looks like it will still be awhile before i can get everything going again, infact, i had a 4 month project and other go down the hatch when i lost my harddrive. Now i cant even get PakBuild to work correctly:mad:

eek... that sounds like nothing pleasant there SO! I'm sure we've all lost more than we realize with that 4 month project down the hatch!

eek... that sounds like nothing pleasant there SO! I'm sure we've all lost more than we realize with that 4 month project down the hatch!

Ouch! I'm overloaded with RL and modding ATM, so I'm not going to be adding this to my responsibilities anytime soon.

Great men The_J posted new modmod for my request. It adds two things

1 add era exact era requirements for heros
2 heroes will die after x turn after end of that era (recommend 5 tuns)

It will prevent great farmer exploit to build obsolete heroes and add some game balance.

Link to mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13096

Please someone to implement it

Great men The_J posted new modmod for my request. It adds two things

1 add era exact era requirements for heros
2 heroes will die after x turn after end of that era (recommend 5 tuns)

It will prevent great farmer exploit to build obsolete heroes and add some game balance.

Link to mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13096

Please someone to implement it

I cant do it, you didnt ask him to do it in BUG/WoC style . . .

So, better put an "can only build at X era or before" to some culture, or you will be able to build a totally useless wonder

And I think it's the worst solution for this problem, I would prefer a "heroes will start with heroic equipment, making them strong for the actual era", so even Leonidas will be useful in Modern Era (and so, you will still use him and not build an achievment/put a instructor)

Whats the point of them expiring, if they can just join a city as a super specialist?

They are very powerful. We want to add this to make some game balance.

Even in heroes native mod they die after 25 turns so entire era + 5 turns is long enought to use them.
It will also add some realism. Leonidas in modern era sounds like tale not real world. Noone lives forever.

@Nimek:

I meant that it don't really make them go away, if you can stick them as a Super Specialist in a city were they will stay forever. It kind of defeats the purpose of them being temporary. I really like the idea of them being era specific, but then please remove their abilities to be made to work as Super Specialists. (Just to be clear, I do NOT mean remove their ability to build the Achievements buildings, just their ability to add a settled great people of choice to the city.) In most cases this will be either a Great Prophet (+5 gold, +2 hammers) or a Military Advisor (+2 gold, +2 XP), the first of which adds a huge amount of gold over time, and the last of which can contribute to adding 50+ XP to newly recruited units in the late game, which is ridiculous. It will help the game balance to make this ability go away I think, as well as make them indeed temporary (except for the achievements thing). Two birds with one stone!


Noone lives forever.


Except all the civilization leaders.

Except all the civilization leaders.


That will be changed as soon as thunder will develop his next idea. Now he has a lot of work on Combat Mod

@Nimek:

I meant that it don't really make them go away, if you can stick them as a Super Specialist in a city were they will stay forever. It kind of defeats the purpose of them being temporary. I really like the idea of them being era specific, but then please remove their abilities to be made to work as Super Specialists. (Just to be clear, I do NOT mean remove their ability to build the Achievements buildings, just their ability to add a settled great people of choice to the city.) In most cases this will be either a Great Prophet (+5 gold, +2 hammers) or a Military Advisor (+2 gold, +2 XP), the first of which adds a huge amount of gold over time, and the last of which can contribute to adding 50+ XP to newly recruited units in the late game, which is ridiculous. It will help the game balance to make this ability go away I think, as well as make them indeed temporary (except for the achievements thing). Two birds with one stone!

Are you saying there should be no super specialists in the game? Because your arguement against heroes could be used against every other GP that you settle also.

Edit I'll look at merging the mod as an option or mod mod. Personally I don't like it since the way I play I get to build the hero at the end of the era and have him/her die on the way to the front lines.

Specialists like that are more of a heritage, special tradition etc... rather than actually living forever.

I'm on the fence with this myself though and would like it as an option as DH suggests. In some games I might want it ON and in others OFF and it'll probably depend on some other mod plans to come (whether they are in effect or not.)

So just add option

Realistic heroes

I have ask TheJ to rebuild his mod component in bug/woc style. He starting to do it but i think he ma need some help.

Era requirement for heroes should be full merged i think.this will remove great farmer exploit to build obsolete heroes.

So just add option

Realistic heroes

I have ask TheJ to rebuild his mod component in bug/woc style. He starting to do it but i think he ma need some help.

Era requirement for heroes should be full merged i think.this will remove great farmer exploit to build obsolete heroes.

No need to get The_J to do anything. It is often trivial to convert however I have not looked at it yet, just downloaded it and added it to my list.

Are you saying there should be no super specialists in the game? Because your arguement against heroes could be used against every other GP that you settle also.

Edit I'll look at merging the mod as an option or mod mod. Personally I don't like it since the way I play I get to build the hero at the end of the era and have him/her die on the way to the front lines.

I'm fine with this as an option, personally I like the way Heroes work right now in terms of gameplay. Question though (for Koshling), will the AI understand how to use Heroes which are going to die at some point?

I'm fine with this as an option, personally I like the way Heroes work right now in terms of gameplay. Question though (for Koshling), will the AI understand how to use Heroes which are going to die at some point?

I must agree, there might be some needed tweaks here and there and some buildings taht need to be added etc, but as far as dying, i am up in the air about this?? Maybe instead of dying just make him into the next Era in line person available and have him/her upgrade to that Hero? Would be then just like a normal unit, upgrading etc. . . But only in the Hero classes . . .

Perhaps in 'death' they could be made to auto join the current Capital? Or the city they were built from? They've gone home to retire...

Perhaps in 'death' they could be made to auto join the current Capital? Or the city they were built from? They've gone home to retire...

Well in a ways you can already do that, thats why i leave it to the player for options to be IE: Military Instructor, Great Prophet etc and even as you said Join City in some cases already. . .

I understand you already can... I was just saying that rather than have the unit perish, it should automatically be made to join its home city from wherever it is when its 'time has run out'. Then again, is it necessary? At a point, the unit has been strength obsoleted anyhow and there's little further use for it but to take it back to a city.

Though I must admit it wouldn't bother me either way because I use them for the city as soon as I get them.

I understand you already can... I was just saying that rather than have the unit perish, it should automatically be made to join its home city from wherever it is when its 'time has run out'. Then again, is it necessary? At a point, the unit has been strength obsoleted anyhow and there's little further use for it but to take it back to a city.

Though I must admit it wouldn't bother me either way because I use them for the city as soon as I get them.

I'd be against this. On obsolescence sure, but not on combat death. There should be a tension between whether you risk them in combat or save them for their buildings.

I wasn't suggesting combat death. It was a counter proposal to age death as we've been discussing here. I would agree with you regarding combat death - the risk should be real.

The_J just posted his modcomp version of dying heroes.

It adds two things

1 Add era reqiuirement to build hero
2 Hero can die after x turns whan that era ends

It is in BUG/WoC style now
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11948405&postcount=1150

Can we add this era requiremant to heroes during the long freeze please.
It is important from balance perspective?

The_J just posted his modcomp version of dying heroes.

It adds two things

1 Add era requirement to build hero
2 Hero can die after x turns when that era ends

It is in BUG/WoC style now
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11948405&postcount=1150

Can we add this era requirement to heroes during the long freeze please.
It is important from balance perspective?

No offense but i really dont like that idea, i like it better if a Hero could Upgrade to another Hero for that Era or what ever the genius' for modders /player come up with, but the dying part for me, NOT so much.

@strategy


I am not talking about dying heroes (it is optional just set turn timer to -1 ) but about
adding era requirement to build hero.

It will prevent for great farmer exploit to build obsolete heroes to have great specialists/achivements from them. That is the reason that i want to add it.

No offense but i really dont like that idea, i like it better if a Hero could Upgrade to another Hero for that Era or what ever the genius' for modders /player come up with, but the dying part for me, NOT so much.

I agree, the way that old heroes are dealt with currently is to have them become Achievements. That IMO should stay.

Guys

Did anybody read what I wrote.

This modcomp add era requirement to build hero. For ex leonidas can only be build on ancient era.
Now with great farmer you can build obsolete heroes and use them to build achivemets or city specialist

Guys

Did anybody read what I wrote.

This modcomp add era requirement to build hero. For ex leonidas can only be build on ancient era.
Now with great farmer you can build obsolete heroes and use them to build achivemets or city specialist

And you need to use a GP to do that (and an uncommon one at that), so I don't think that it's too OP.

And you need to use a GP to do that (and an uncommon one at that), so I don't think that it's too OP.

GP? Great Farmers can be built on demand (albeit only one at a time)

GP? Great Farmers can be built on demand (albeit only one at a time)

This is the most broken feature if the game. I refuse to not limit myself to one every era, and even that is pushing it.

Please make them unbuildable, and only gotten on a one time basis for certain techs, events, etc.

Seriously, their effects are just as good as the other GP's with the hero stuff, and you CAN BUILD AN UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF THEM?!

Baffles me.

GP? Great Farmers can be built on demand (albeit only one at a time)

Huh? That is way OP.

GP? Great Farmers can be built on demand (albeit only one at a time)

Plus the time to make only one item is a looooong time(turn times), from what i am seeing??

Quick Question about Great Farmers (V26p1): When I finally got him, I noted that I could only build resources that I already had access to. For example, I couldn't build Apples anywhere (north or south of the equator); and as I said I could only build resources that I already had, no new ones.

Is this correct, or is it some other limitation preventing me from creating the resources. I'll also note that the 'pedia entry for the great farmer makes no mention of the limitation on creating resources.

Quick Question about Great Farmers (V26p1): When I finally got him, I noted that I could only build resources that I already had access to. For example, I couldn't build Apples anywhere (north or south of the equator); and as I said I could only build resources that I already had, no new ones.

Is this correct, or is it some other limitation preventing me from creating the resources. I'll also note that the 'pedia entry for the great farmer makes no mention of the limitation on creating resources.

Thats is the way i designed it. At first it was that way, you could put any resource anyplace, but thats just pure-imbalance. Then we tried placing resource anyplace you wanted, well that didnt work either, because then you would lose the resource you were going to get in those tile areas. Then DH did a complete turn-around and redesigned it to better suit C2C. SO YES that would be your answer to if you dont have it you cant plant it etc, and the pedia is probably wrong because that was over a year maybe two now??:blush:

It probably does need another over-haul,since alot has happened since we first put it into the game. . .

Thats is the way i designed it. At first it was that way, you could put any resource anyplace, but thats just pure-imbalance. Then we tried placing resource anyplace you wanted, well that didnt work either, because then you would lose the resource you were going to get in those tile areas. Then DH did a complete turn-around and redesigned it to better suit C2C. SO YES that would be your answer to if you dont have it you cant plant it etc, and the pedia is probably wrong because that was over a year maybe two now??:blush:

It probably does need another over-haul,since alot has happened since we first put it into the game. . .

It's the advent of resource-in-vicinity triggered cultures that has made it over powered. Perhaps insteadif planting a resource it should be able to create a resource-providing building? That would still preserve it's original purpose of providing you a more reliable source of the resolves, without enabling any new cultures...

I dislike the idea of limiting heroes to eras because that assumes you will be ale to get the required culture in that era.

I would like to replace the Great Farmer with an espionage unit! In Sevo's "Faces of God" mod a unit is available which "steals" some resource (eg copper) and delivers it to a place in your territory. As long as the unit remains on the resource you have access to it. This is OK for metals but I have a different idea for plants and animals. Your spy visits a plot with a plant or animal resource you don't have and tries to steal some. If successful you get two special units back home which can plant the crop/herd and then they disappear. Naturally this wont be until the Enlightenment and soon after there needs to be some improvements in counter espionage. Resources in neutral territory would require an explorer to do the same thing.

It was a bit of mild/shocking disappointment. The primary reason I built him (though he's cheap, it takes him forever to plant something) was to get a 'missing' resource that wasn't on my continent that I needed to build a culture. Lacking that, the next best use I think is to plant a horse (or camel, or elephant) near a city you want to be able to build mounted units (another gripe of mine).

I REALLY don't like the idea of REMOVING the GF entirely! Although I do have some ideas as to how to make him a real GP eventually... And I'm not against another mechanic that can steal resources...

@ls612: I don't think the GF is all that OP... he takes forever and a day to complete his task so you can't get tooooo much out of him in any given game.

is it possible to convert the unit artstyles of the heros, to normal artstyles of several civilisations. i dont want to remove heros but we could use the artstyles more intensevly. its just waste of memory if we use an artstyle just ones in a entire game that can last weeks ore months. for example the artsyle of king arthur could also be the artstyle of the holy roman knights as well. we could have more diversification on the battlefield without consumption more memory

is it possible to convert the unit artstyles of the heros, to normal artstyles of several civilizations. i dont want to remove heroes but we could use the artstyles more intensely. its just waste of memory if we use an artstyle just ones in a entire game that can last weeks ore months. for example the artsyle of king Arthur could also be the artstyle of the holy roman knights as well. we could have more diversification on the battlefield without consumption more memory

Sorry for my assumption here, BUT i am not sure what you are saying, sorry. . .:blush:

sorry just my bad english. i mean we have the unit artstyles of the heros. but we could use this artstyles for more than just for heros. the hero artstyles can be used as artstyles for regular units of different nations as well. for example the artstyle of the king arthur hero could be used as the artstyle of the regular unit holy roman knight.

yes a hero should be unique but we have maybe hundrets of them. every hero have its own unique artstyle and every artstyle consumes memory. but it is a waste of memory if this artstyle is needed just ones in a game. if we use the artstyles for normal units too the different nations military would be more colourfull and unique. i hope this explanation was better in need more english training

I finally got another Hero to add, but want input before i add her is what i have:



<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_UNIT_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>A combat medic is a trained soldier who is responsible for providing first aid and frontline trauma care on the battlefield.

Combat medics are officially known by a variety of names. In the United States Army, medics have often been called 68Ws since December of 2005. In the United States Navy, they are known as Corpsmen and fill the combat medic role of the United States Marine Corps, which does not have its own medical personnel. Combat Medical Technicians (CMTs) in the British Army are members of the Royal Army Medical Corps. The general NATO description is Combat Lifesaver (CLS).

In most armies, medics wear specific insignia, with a prominent Red Cross on a white background. Islamic countries use a red crescent instead while Israeli medics wear the Magen David Adom (a red star of David on a white background). These symbols signify to enemy soldiers that the medic is a noncombatant, providing medical care. For many years, most medics have carried at least a side arm (and now, frequently a rifle, carbine or submachine gun), to be used as a defensive weapon. Medical personnel may be armed, but may only use their weapons to protect themselves or the wounded and sick in their care. If they use their arms offensively (i.e. attacking or assaulting), or carry arms that qualify as offensive (such as a sniper rifle, machine gun or grenade launcher), they then sacrifice their protection under the Geneva Conventions. Generally, a medic holding his/her weapon is considered to be an armed, military threat. According to the Geneva Convention, knowingly firing at a medic wearing clear insignia is a war crime.

During World War II (and before the implementation of the 1949 revision to the Geneva Convention made it illegal), there was an unwritten law of ethics between Allied and German forces whereby soldiers would not knowingly fire at a medic treating a wounded comrade. This was in stark contrast to the policy of the Japanese forces, who regarded medics as primary targets, resulting in Allied medics removing or covering their insignia.
-WikipediA</English>
</TEXT>


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@SO:

Is there any other art that could be used for that? I don't like to duplicate art on two units unless it is unavoidable.

@SO:

Is there any other art that could be used for that? I don't like to duplicate art on two units unless it is unavoidable.

I just looked through all of saibotlieh female units and there are None that will work. . .

You could just change the medic so that there were two of them per unit.

You could just change the medic so that there were two of them per unit.

That won't help people using Single Unit Graphics.

That won't help people using Single Unit Graphics.

Which is exactly why I am going to have to get rid of the ranger unit. Hydro made it exactly like the tracker unit even for people who don't have Single Unit Graphics.

Simply recolor the texture file on him and he'd be good... The ranger plays too important a role to take him out over something as trivial as graphics.

Simply recolor the texture file on him and he'd be good... The ranger plays too important a role to take him out over something as trivial as graphics.

I completely agree.

Which is exactly why I am going to have to get rid of the ranger unit. Hydro made it exactly like the tracker unit even for people who don't have Single Unit Graphics.

You sure? I thought we fixed it so each unit was unique now in the tracker line.

EDIT: Yeah I found the conversion here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11998834&postcount=1405). So yeah we did chnage some of them but never got around to fixing the Tacker and Hunter. So the Ranger is just fine graphics wise, its the first 2 units that need to be fixed since they look much too advanced for prehistoric. Also the Chaser could use some work too.

Here are some new changes i made to Florence N.(in red), i want to make her a Hero but i can only use Civilian, because of the Promotions i want to give her? Any ideas??

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by Alex Mantzaris (Firaxis Games) -->
<!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4 -->
<!-- Copyright Firaxis Games 2005 -->
<!-- -->
<!-- Unit Infos -->
<Civ4UnitInfos xmlns="x-schema:SO_CIV4UnitSchema.xml">
<UnitInfos>
<UnitInfo>
<Class>UNITCLASS_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE</Class>
<Type>UNIT_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE</Type>
<UniqueNames/>
<Special>NONE</Special>
<Capture>NONE</Capture>
<Combat>UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN</Combat>
<Domain>DOMAIN_LAND</Domain>
<DefaultUnitAI>UNITAI_RESERVE</DefaultUnitAI>
<Invisible>NONE</Invisible>
<SeeInvisible>NONE</SeeInvisible>
<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE</Description>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_UNIT_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
<Strategy>TXT_KEY_UNIT_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE_STRATEGY</Strategy>
<Advisor>ADVISOR_MILITARY</Advisor>
<bAnimal>0</bAnimal>
<bFood>0</bFood>
<bNoBadGoodies>0</bNoBadGoodies>
<bOnlyDefensive>1</bOnlyDefensive>
<bNoCapture>0</bNoCapture>
<bQuickCombat>0</bQuickCombat>
<bRivalTerritory>0</bRivalTerritory>
<bMilitaryHappiness>1</bMilitaryHappiness>
<bMilitarySupport>1</bMilitarySupport>
<bMilitaryProduction>1</bMilitaryProduction>
<bPillage>0</bPillage>
<bSpy>0</bSpy>
<bSabotage>0</bSabotage>
<bDestroy>0</bDestroy>
<bStealPlans>0</bStealPlans>
<bInvestigate>0</bInvestigate>
<bCounterSpy>0</bCounterSpy>
<bFound>0</bFound>
<bGoldenAge>0</bGoldenAge>
<bInvisible>0</bInvisible>
<bFirstStrikeImmune>0</bFirstStrikeImmune>
<bNoDefensiveBonus>0</bNoDefensiveBonus>
<bIgnoreBuildingDefense>0</bIgnoreBuildingDefense>
<bCanMoveImpassable>0</bCanMoveImpassable>
<bCanMoveAllTerrain>0</bCanMoveAllTerrain>
<bFlatMovementCost>0</bFlatMovementCost>
<bIgnoreTerrainCost>0</bIgnoreTerrainCost>
<bNukeImmune>0</bNukeImmune>
<bPrereqBonuses>0</bPrereqBonuses>
<bPrereqReligion>0</bPrereqReligion>
<bMechanized>0</bMechanized>
<bRenderBelowWater>0</bRenderBelowWater>
<bRenderAlways>0</bRenderAlways>
<bSuicide>0</bSuicide>
<bHiddenNationality>0</bHiddenNationality>
<bAlwaysHostile>0</bAlwaysHostile>
<UnitClassUpgrades>
<UnitClassUpgrade>
<UnitClassUpgradeType>UNITCLASS_HOSPITAL_SHIP</UnitClassUpgradeType>
<bUnitClassUpgrade>1</bUnitClassUpgrade>
</UnitClassUpgrade>
<UnitClassUpgrade>
<UnitClassUpgradeType>UNITCLASS_AMBULANCE</UnitClassUpgradeType>
<bUnitClassUpgrade>1</bUnitClassUpgrade>
</UnitClassUpgrade>
</UnitClassUpgrades>
<UnitClassTargets/>
<UnitCombatTargets/>
<UnitClassDefenders/>
<UnitCombatDefenders/>
<FlankingStrikes/>
<UnitAIs>
<UnitAI>
<UnitAIType>UNITAI_WORKER</UnitAIType>
<bUnitAI>1</bUnitAI>
</UnitAI>
<UnitAI>
<UnitAIType>UNITAI_RESERVE</UnitAIType>
<bUnitAI>1</bUnitAI>
</UnitAI>
</UnitAIs>
<NotUnitAIs/>
<Builds/>
<ReligionSpreads/>
<CorporationSpreads/>
<GreatPeoples/>
<Buildings/>
<ForceBuildings/>
<HolyCity>NONE</HolyCity>
<ReligionType>NONE</ReligionType>
<StateReligion>NONE</StateReligion>
<PrereqReligion>NONE</PrereqReligion>
<PrereqCorporation>NONE</PrereqCorporation>
<PrereqBuilding>NONE</PrereqBuilding>
<PrereqTech>TECH_MEDICINE</PrereqTech>
<TechTypes/>
<BonusType>NONE</BonusType>
<PrereqBonuses/>
<ProductionTraits/>
<Flavors/>
<iAIWeight>0</iAIWeight>
<iCost>200</iCost>
<iHurryCostModifier>0</iHurryCostModifier>
<iAdvancedStartCost>-1</iAdvancedStartCost>
<iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>0</iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>
<iMinAreaSize>-1</iMinAreaSize>
<iMoves>1</iMoves>
<bNoRevealMap>0</bNoRevealMap>
<iAirRange>0</iAirRange>
<iAirUnitCap>0</iAirUnitCap>
<iDropRange>0</iDropRange>
<iNukeRange>-1</iNukeRange>
<iWorkRate>0</iWorkRate>
<iBaseDiscover>0</iBaseDiscover>
<iDiscoverMultiplier>0</iDiscoverMultiplier>
<iBaseHurry>0</iBaseHurry>
<iHurryMultiplier>0</iHurryMultiplier>
<iBaseTrade>0</iBaseTrade>
<iTradeMultiplier>0</iTradeMultiplier>
<iGreatWorkCulture>0</iGreatWorkCulture>
<iEspionagePoints>0</iEspionagePoints>
<TerrainImpassables/>
<FeatureImpassables/>
<TerrainPassableTechs/>
<FeaturePassableTechs/>
<iCombat>10</iCombat>
<iCombatLimit>100</iCombatLimit>
<iAirCombat>0</iAirCombat>
<iAirCombatLimit>0</iAirCombatLimit>
<iXPValueAttack>0</iXPValueAttack>
<iXPValueDefense>0</iXPValueDefense>
<iFirstStrikes>0</iFirstStrikes>
<iChanceFirstStrikes>0</iChanceFirstStrikes>
<iInterceptionProbability>0</iInterceptionProbability>
<iEvasionProbability>0</iEvasionProbability>
<iWithdrawalProb>0</iWithdrawalProb>
<iCollateralDamage>0</iCollateralDamage>
<iCollateralDamageLimit>0</iCollateralDamageLimit>
<iCollateralDamageMaxUnits>0</iCollateralDamageMaxUnits>
<iCityAttack>0</iCityAttack>
<iCityDefense>0</iCityDefense>
<iAnimalCombat>0</iAnimalCombat>
<iHillsAttack>0</iHillsAttack>
<iHillsDefense>0</iHillsDefense>
<TerrainNatives/>
<FeatureNatives/>
<TerrainAttacks/>
<TerrainDefenses/>
<FeatureAttacks/>
<FeatureDefenses/>
<UnitClassAttackMods/>
<UnitClassDefenseMods/>
<UnitCombatMods/>
<UnitCombatCollateralImmunes/>
<DomainMods/>
<BonusProductionModifiers/>
<iBombRate>0</iBombRate>
<iBombardRate>0</iBombardRate>
<SpecialCargo>NONE</SpecialCargo>
<DomainCargo>NONE</DomainCargo>
<iCargo>0</iCargo>
<iConscription>0</iConscription>
<iCultureGarrison>0</iCultureGarrison>
<iExtraCost>2</iExtraCost>
<iAsset>2</iAsset>
<iPower>4</iPower>
<UnitMeshGroups>
<iGroupSize>1</iGroupSize>
<fMaxSpeed>1.75</fMaxSpeed>
<fPadTime>1</fPadTime>
<iMeleeWaveSize>2</iMeleeWaveSize>
<iRangedWaveSize>0</iRangedWaveSize>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<iRequired>1</iRequired>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_MEDIC</EarlyArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
</UnitMeshGroups>
<FormationType>FORMATION_TYPE_DEFAULT</FormationType>
<HotKey/>
<bAltDown>0</bAltDown>
<bShiftDown>0</bShiftDown>
<bCtrlDown>0</bCtrlDown>
<iHotKeyPriority>0</iHotKeyPriority>
<FreePromotions>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_MEDIC1</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_MEDIC2</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_MEDIC3</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_HERBAL_CURES</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
</FreePromotions>
<LeaderPromotion>NONE</LeaderPromotion>
<iLeaderExperience>0</iLeaderExperience>
<PropertyManipulators>
<PropertySource>
<PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
<PropertyType>PROPERTY_DISEASE</PropertyType>
<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</GameObjectType>
<RelationType>RELATION_SAME_PLOT</RelationType>
<iAmountPerTurn>-20</iAmountPerTurn>
</PropertySource>
<PropertySource>
<PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
<PropertyType>PROPERTY_DISEASE</PropertyType>
<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_PLOT</GameObjectType>
<RelationType>RELATION_SAME_PLOT</RelationType>
<iAmountPerTurn>-10</iAmountPerTurn>
</PropertySource>
</PropertyManipulators>
</UnitInfo>
</UnitInfos>
</Civ4UnitInfos>


More suggestion/ideas??:)

Here are some new changes i made to Florence N.(in red), i want to make her a Hero but i can only use Civilian, because of the Promotions i want to give her? Any ideas??

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by Alex Mantzaris (Firaxis Games) -->
<!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4 -->
<!-- Copyright Firaxis Games 2005 -->
<!-- -->
<!-- Unit Infos -->
<Civ4UnitInfos xmlns="x-schema:SO_CIV4UnitSchema.xml">
<UnitInfos>
<UnitInfo>
<Class>UNITCLASS_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE</Class>
<Type>UNIT_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE</Type>
<UniqueNames/>
<Special>NONE</Special>
<Capture>NONE</Capture>
<Combat>UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN</Combat>
<Domain>DOMAIN_LAND</Domain>
<DefaultUnitAI>UNITAI_RESERVE</DefaultUnitAI>
<Invisible>NONE</Invisible>
<SeeInvisible>NONE</SeeInvisible>
<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE</Description>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_UNIT_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
<Strategy>TXT_KEY_UNIT_FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE_STRATEGY</Strategy>
<Advisor>ADVISOR_MILITARY</Advisor>
<bAnimal>0</bAnimal>
<bFood>0</bFood>
<bNoBadGoodies>0</bNoBadGoodies>
<bOnlyDefensive>1</bOnlyDefensive>
<bNoCapture>0</bNoCapture>
<bQuickCombat>0</bQuickCombat>
<bRivalTerritory>0</bRivalTerritory>
<bMilitaryHappiness>1</bMilitaryHappiness>
<bMilitarySupport>1</bMilitarySupport>
<bMilitaryProduction>1</bMilitaryProduction>
<bPillage>0</bPillage>
<bSpy>0</bSpy>
<bSabotage>0</bSabotage>
<bDestroy>0</bDestroy>
<bStealPlans>0</bStealPlans>
<bInvestigate>0</bInvestigate>
<bCounterSpy>0</bCounterSpy>
<bFound>0</bFound>
<bGoldenAge>0</bGoldenAge>
<bInvisible>0</bInvisible>
<bFirstStrikeImmune>0</bFirstStrikeImmune>
<bNoDefensiveBonus>0</bNoDefensiveBonus>
<bIgnoreBuildingDefense>0</bIgnoreBuildingDefense>
<bCanMoveImpassable>0</bCanMoveImpassable>
<bCanMoveAllTerrain>0</bCanMoveAllTerrain>
<bFlatMovementCost>0</bFlatMovementCost>
<bIgnoreTerrainCost>0</bIgnoreTerrainCost>
<bNukeImmune>0</bNukeImmune>
<bPrereqBonuses>0</bPrereqBonuses>
<bPrereqReligion>0</bPrereqReligion>
<bMechanized>0</bMechanized>
<bRenderBelowWater>0</bRenderBelowWater>
<bRenderAlways>0</bRenderAlways>
<bSuicide>0</bSuicide>
<bHiddenNationality>0</bHiddenNationality>
<bAlwaysHostile>0</bAlwaysHostile>
<UnitClassUpgrades>
<UnitClassUpgrade>
<UnitClassUpgradeType>UNITCLASS_HOSPITAL_SHIP</UnitClassUpgradeType>
<bUnitClassUpgrade>1</bUnitClassUpgrade>
</UnitClassUpgrade>
<UnitClassUpgrade>
<UnitClassUpgradeType>UNITCLASS_AMBULANCE</UnitClassUpgradeType>
<bUnitClassUpgrade>1</bUnitClassUpgrade>
</UnitClassUpgrade>
</UnitClassUpgrades>
<UnitClassTargets/>
<UnitCombatTargets/>
<UnitClassDefenders/>
<UnitCombatDefenders/>
<FlankingStrikes/>
<UnitAIs>
<UnitAI>
<UnitAIType>UNITAI_WORKER</UnitAIType>
<bUnitAI>1</bUnitAI>
</UnitAI>
<UnitAI>
<UnitAIType>UNITAI_RESERVE</UnitAIType>
<bUnitAI>1</bUnitAI>
</UnitAI>
</UnitAIs>
<NotUnitAIs/>
<Builds/>
<ReligionSpreads/>
<CorporationSpreads/>
<GreatPeoples/>
<Buildings/>
<ForceBuildings/>
<HolyCity>NONE</HolyCity>
<ReligionType>NONE</ReligionType>
<StateReligion>NONE</StateReligion>
<PrereqReligion>NONE</PrereqReligion>
<PrereqCorporation>NONE</PrereqCorporation>
<PrereqBuilding>NONE</PrereqBuilding>
<PrereqTech>TECH_MEDICINE</PrereqTech>
<TechTypes/>
<BonusType>NONE</BonusType>
<PrereqBonuses/>
<ProductionTraits/>
<Flavors/>
<iAIWeight>0</iAIWeight>
<iCost>200</iCost>
<iHurryCostModifier>0</iHurryCostModifier>
<iAdvancedStartCost>-1</iAdvancedStartCost>
<iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>0</iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>
<iMinAreaSize>-1</iMinAreaSize>
<iMoves>1</iMoves>
<bNoRevealMap>0</bNoRevealMap>
<iAirRange>0</iAirRange>
<iAirUnitCap>0</iAirUnitCap>
<iDropRange>0</iDropRange>
<iNukeRange>-1</iNukeRange>
<iWorkRate>0</iWorkRate>
<iBaseDiscover>0</iBaseDiscover>
<iDiscoverMultiplier>0</iDiscoverMultiplier>
<iBaseHurry>0</iBaseHurry>
<iHurryMultiplier>0</iHurryMultiplier>
<iBaseTrade>0</iBaseTrade>
<iTradeMultiplier>0</iTradeMultiplier>
<iGreatWorkCulture>0</iGreatWorkCulture>
<iEspionagePoints>0</iEspionagePoints>
<TerrainImpassables/>
<FeatureImpassables/>
<TerrainPassableTechs/>
<FeaturePassableTechs/>
<iCombat>10</iCombat>
<iCombatLimit>100</iCombatLimit>
<iAirCombat>0</iAirCombat>
<iAirCombatLimit>0</iAirCombatLimit>
<iXPValueAttack>0</iXPValueAttack>
<iXPValueDefense>0</iXPValueDefense>
<iFirstStrikes>0</iFirstStrikes>
<iChanceFirstStrikes>0</iChanceFirstStrikes>
<iInterceptionProbability>0</iInterceptionProbability>
<iEvasionProbability>0</iEvasionProbability>
<iWithdrawalProb>0</iWithdrawalProb>
<iCollateralDamage>0</iCollateralDamage>
<iCollateralDamageLimit>0</iCollateralDamageLimit>
<iCollateralDamageMaxUnits>0</iCollateralDamageMaxUnits>
<iCityAttack>0</iCityAttack>
<iCityDefense>0</iCityDefense>
<iAnimalCombat>0</iAnimalCombat>
<iHillsAttack>0</iHillsAttack>
<iHillsDefense>0</iHillsDefense>
<TerrainNatives/>
<FeatureNatives/>
<TerrainAttacks/>
<TerrainDefenses/>
<FeatureAttacks/>
<FeatureDefenses/>
<UnitClassAttackMods/>
<UnitClassDefenseMods/>
<UnitCombatMods/>
<UnitCombatCollateralImmunes/>
<DomainMods/>
<BonusProductionModifiers/>
<iBombRate>0</iBombRate>
<iBombardRate>0</iBombardRate>
<SpecialCargo>NONE</SpecialCargo>
<DomainCargo>NONE</DomainCargo>
<iCargo>0</iCargo>
<iConscription>0</iConscription>
<iCultureGarrison>0</iCultureGarrison>
<iExtraCost>2</iExtraCost>
<iAsset>2</iAsset>
<iPower>4</iPower>
<UnitMeshGroups>
<iGroupSize>1</iGroupSize>
<fMaxSpeed>1.75</fMaxSpeed>
<fPadTime>1</fPadTime>
<iMeleeWaveSize>2</iMeleeWaveSize>
<iRangedWaveSize>0</iRangedWaveSize>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<iRequired>1</iRequired>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_MEDIC</EarlyArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
</UnitMeshGroups>
<FormationType>FORMATION_TYPE_DEFAULT</FormationType>
<HotKey/>
<bAltDown>0</bAltDown>
<bShiftDown>0</bShiftDown>
<bCtrlDown>0</bCtrlDown>
<iHotKeyPriority>0</iHotKeyPriority>
<FreePromotions>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_MEDIC1</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_MEDIC2</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_MEDIC3</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_HERBAL_CURES</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
</FreePromotions>
<LeaderPromotion>NONE</LeaderPromotion>
<iLeaderExperience>0</iLeaderExperience>
<PropertyManipulators>
<PropertySource>
<PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
<PropertyType>PROPERTY_DISEASE</PropertyType>
<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</GameObjectType>
<RelationType>RELATION_SAME_PLOT</RelationType>
<iAmountPerTurn>-20</iAmountPerTurn>
</PropertySource>
<PropertySource>
<PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
<PropertyType>PROPERTY_DISEASE</PropertyType>
<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_PLOT</GameObjectType>
<RelationType>RELATION_SAME_PLOT</RelationType>
<iAmountPerTurn>-10</iAmountPerTurn>
</PropertySource>
</PropertyManipulators>
</UnitInfo>
</UnitInfos>
</Civ4UnitInfos>


More suggestion/ideas??:)

Use Sub combats?

Yes. Make her both Combat Classes. ;)

As per functionality given to us in the Combat Mod (this part is fully capable at this time although could still use a tweak in the display portion) you can give a unit multiple combat classes.

Directly under the <Combat> tag, add the SubCombat tag. I would do it like this:

<Combat>UNITCOMBAT_HERO</Combat>
<SubCombatTypes>
<SubCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN</SubCombatType>
</SubCombatTypes>

Use Sub combats?

Yes. Make her both Combat Classes. ;)

As per functionality given to us in the Combat Mod (this part is fully capable at this time although could still use a tweak in the display portion) you can give a unit multiple combat classes.

Directly under the <Combat> tag, add the SubCombat tag. I would do it like this:

<Combat>UNITCOMBAT_HERO</Combat>
<SubCombatTypes>
<SubCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN</SubCombatType>
</SubCombatTypes>

Fandamntastic news:goodjob:, whom ever did this thx. Now, how many SUB combats can ONE unit have then??

No limit. The combat mod as a whole will rely on this ability extensively. Additional Combat Classes may even be awarded to a unit via promotions!

Under Combat Mod structures, we're going to have units having a number of layers of combat class definitions.

No limit. The combat mod as a whole will rely on this ability extensively. Additional Combat Classes may even be awarded to a unit via promotions!

Under Combat Mod structures, we're going to have units having a number of layers of combat class definitions.

BTW, please PM me the details about what you and AIAndy came up with for the option, thanks.

I'll actually be posting the full explanation probably later tonight for all to read. I'll include some code examples to show you what's going on there too.

I'll actually be posting the full explanation probably later tonight for all to read. I'll include some code examples to show you what's going on there too.

Now that would be very useful, thx.;)

Are the heroes upgradable in any way, or are they intended to be "retired" as great military instructors when they are no longer competitive on the battle field?

For balance reasons we should

1 Cut off heroes ability to attack multiple times per turn

NIw we have ridiciulus situation where one hero can take down 22 pop city with abive 100% city defense in few turns. Hero conquare 3 units per turn and AI can built only one per turn. And on GEM you are able to get entire army of heroes (two or three per culture). They are powerfull enought without multiple attack ability.

I think i might have to agree, BUT, now with the implementation of extra unitcombats, i think i am willing to give EACH hero a set of these also, that way his promotion will be greater also and get some of the more qualified ones, so to say??? This way he/she wont need the multiple times per turn at all.


Ideas, suggestions on this??

:bump: see above FIRST

Now also how about starting them on certain turn date in the game also??

i feel heroes are too weak now, obvious thing ill build great wonder or what those called.. accomplishments? after that ill just join city as great person , +3 or around that number in strength doesn't help too much , most buildings and extra xp gets ignored by heroes too, was it always like that? before i remember getting lots of promotions on them now it feels you are lucky if you get 2 vs some units getting 5 promotions a lone from buildings and another 5+ from exp
even if hero can kill couple units or attack multiple times , you better off with permanent bonus in city
if your hero can take city with 100% defence and 5-10 units, you are so far ahead in tech you could faceroll with general units too

i feel heroes are too weak now, obvious thing ill build great wonder or what those called.. accomplishments? after that ill just join city as great person , +3 or around that number in strength doesn't help too much , most buildings and extra xp gets ignored by heroes too, was it always like that? before i remember getting lots of promotions on them now it feels you are lucky if you get 2 vs some units getting 5 promotions a lone from buildings and another 5+ from exp
even if hero can kill couple units or attack multiple times , you better off with permanent bonus in city
if your hero can take city with 100% defence and 5-10 units, you are so far ahead in tech you could faceroll with general units too

Yeah my 'heroes' are all cowering in fear of the latest newly-built Warlord Chief who has 75% Strength bonus before he's done anything.

I think i might have to agree, BUT, now with the implementation of extra unitcombats, i think i am willing to give EACH hero a set of these also, that way his promotion will be greater also and get some of the more qualified ones, so to say??? This way he/she wont need the multiple times per turn at all.
Ideas, suggestions on this??

I didnt get any response so i will try it this way:


| Hero | Sub-Combat |

|FLORENCE_NIGHTINGALE | UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN |
|HUITZILOPOCHTLI | UNITCOMBAT_?? |
|ITZCOATL | UNITCOMBAT_?? |
|MANCO_CAPAC |
|TUPAC_YUPANQUI |
|THOMAS_JEFFERSON |
|PATTON |
|SCIPIO_AFRICANUS |
|ODYSSEUS |
|LEONIDAS |
|KHAEMWASET |
|THUTMOSE_III |
|HERNAN_CORTES |
|HENRI_IV |
|JOAN_OF_ARC |
|LORD_NELSON |
|ROBIN_HOOD |
|FREDERICK_BARBAROSSA |
|ERWIN_ROMMEL |
|TROTSKY |
|IVAN_IV |
|BAIBARS |
|KHALID |
|ROSTAM |
|SHAPUR |
|CHANDRAGUPTA_MAURYA |
|ZHENG_HE |
|GUAN_YU |
|HIDEYOSHI |
|YAMAMOTO |
lSUBOTEI |
lSUNDIATA_KEITA |
lMANSA_SAKURA |
lDIDO |
llHAMILCAR |
MERLIN |
lARTHUR |
lGUSTAVUS_ADOLPHUS |
lCANUTE |
lOSMAN |
lBARBAROSSA |
lGWANGGAETO |
lYI_SUN_SIN |
lNELSON_MANDELA |
lNDLELA |
lPOCAHONTAS |
lHIAWATHA |
lKUKULCAN |
lTECUN_UMAN |
lBASIL_II |
lCONSTANTINE_XI |
lHENRY |
lAFONSO_HENRIQUES |
lMICHIEL_DE_RUYTER |
lPIER |
lNEDBUCHADNEZZAR |
lNABOPOLASSAR |
lENKIDU |
lSARGON |
lJAYAVARMAN_II |
lJAYAVARMAN_VII |
lEZANA |
lMENELIK |
lMAUI |
lTUITATUI |
lTIRADENTES |
lLUIS |
lANTONIO |
lFRANCISCO |
lSOLOMON |
lMACCABEUS |
lJADWIGA |
lCASIMIR |
lULUGH_BEG |
lSHAH_RUKH |
lGESAR |
lTRISONG_DETSEN |
lQUANG_TRUNG |
lTRUNG_SISTERS |
lAROK |
lDIPONEGORO |
lTAHARQA |
lSHEHE_MVITA |
lSINBAD |
lCHARLES_V |
lEUGENE |
lLABARNA |
lMURSILI |
lIPARHAN |
lBILGE_KHAN |
lBAAL_ESER |
lITHOBAAL |
lARTHUR_CURRIE |
lISAAC_BROCK |
lHENRY_PARKES |
lJOHN_MONASH |

lSURIYOTHAI |
lKARIKALA_CHOLA |
lRAJARAJA_CHOLA |
lBAYAJIDDA |
lAMINA |
lNIMI |
lPEDRO |
lLORENZO_DE_MEDICI |
lENRICO_DANDOLO |
lYUSUF |
lKAHINA |
lASHURBANIPAL |
lSEMIRAMIS |
lSTEPHEN_I |
lARPAD |
lDAEDALUS |
lTHESEUS |
lHAYK |
lLEO_I |
lALFRED |
lALP_ARSLAN |
lCAO_CAO |
lAGUEYBANA |
lABAOJI |
lSPARTACUS |
lGERONIMO |
lCOCHISE |

I agree that its a good idea to give them a sub-combat that represents the type of unit they generally are, such as melee, archery, whatever they primarily fight as. I wouldn't know half the names on that list at the moment enough to make a suggestion on what to make them though.

Romulus have diplomat subcombat class that gives only silver tongue promotion.

Lutainent promotion gives heroes ability to attack multiple times per turn. This is overpowered I think.