The game was generated with 30% bonus to the AI as stated with Emperor plus.
Barbarians are sedentary.
The map is standard with 30% land.
Climate is random.
Civ = Arabia (still trying to get the new eight civs played)

4000 BC - Hmmm...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-262.jpg

Our start looks strong, but I wish it were next to the coast. Still, I decide to settler where I start and order up a scout. We already have pottery, so I start warrior code. Cheapest time, and I block it out from showing up in a goody hut.

3900 BC - Well, city site #2 has already been identified!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-263.jpg
Three moos next to the city, we can even afford to mine all that cattle and get good growth. This is one major league shield city.

3800 BC - Time to pop a hut, and we get maps - big whoop.

3700 BC - We pop another hut and get $25 gold - are you sure we are expansionist?

3550 BC (I) - Mecca expands it borders, and the Parthian tribe teaches us Masonry.

3500 BC - Mecca will be plus 5 food at size 3, so I do something rare and mine a wheat.

3450 BC - He comes hut number 3, and we get a skilled warrior :crazyeye:
Yet, he is the one to make contact with India! The deal does favor India, but I give them pottery / masonry and get Alphabet and $10.

3350 BC - India is very close to our doorstep! This could get war happy quickly. Especially with him controlling the wines.

2710 BC - I finally find another goody hut, and it gives us Bronze Working [wahoo]

2550 BC - Medina is formed, and orders barracks.


Summary - Do we kill India / capture his capital for city number 5?
I am beginning to think India and us are the only civs on this continent!



LKendter
Rowain deWolf (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Hotrod0823
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-2550BC.zip

Can you post a map for us to see?

Looks like a good start Lee! Haven't played with the Arabs yet.

One quick question: Can you capture cities or must they all be razed? Or if you capture a key wonder city like the GL can you keep it and abondon a different city we already control?

5 cities Max at any one time or is it 5 at the end of each turn?

Hotrod

Briefly reviewed your last 5CC LK31 and found this

orginally posted by LkendterOK - I am going to up the notch as high as I feel going with the 5cc conquest concept.
I have no interest in becoming a diety player, and the level of mm I think is need to win at that.


It wasn't too long ago. Anyway, Lee you did mention accepting cities in peace talks or culture flip but didn't say anything regarding captures.

Hotrod

We can capture a city to get number 5
Hmmm... Mabye the Indian city with wines :rocket2:

The first 5cc wasn't played with the best way.

We can NOT accept any cities in peace if that would be city #6. We can never have 6 cities on board - period. Not even for a moment. If we want one lousy luxury, then we need to take / raze that Indian city for the final city.

Hotrod, you can accept cities anyway possible as long as we NEVER go over 5. In other words, if we're at 4 and take the Indian capital we could keep it...though I doubt we'd want to. Chances are, we'll have our 5 cities going by the end of Meldor's turn.

Lee, I'm a bit surprised that with only 5 cities you built the capital in place. When we get the cities near size 20 those two unproductive coast squares may be a bit of a bummer. But, what the heck, the slightly faster city start may help us beat down India quicker.

I look forward to another fun 5cc!

Lee, I'm a bit surprised that with only 5 cities you built the capital in place.

I did debate moving it one south, but getting the Cattle in use immediately helped me to get a very strong 30 turns with 2 scouts, granary, city built, and setter.

Yep, that looked like the proper criteria. I just wonder if it will hurt us later...something to keep an eye on. I have no doubt that it will help us now!

Sounds like a fun game, good luck to you guys!!

Some brief thoughts on 5CC conq... You will definitely want one coastal city for a harbor to trade. But you will hate that city later. It will always be 'just short' of shields for the unit you want to build, e.g. other cities taking 1 turn per infantry, it will need 2. 1 turn per tank, it will need two. I hope your capital is not such a city due to the nearly-wasted coastal tiles. The zero corruption there might just make it a "1 turn" cranker. When you just need 5 cities, I would have moved to the coast or moved inland, as you'll need so few settlers -- but the location chosen will work ok. Use your 'quick start' then to best advantage! :hammer:

I would suggest making sure you know Iron working before founding the fifth city - the time frame should be close anyway. Early 'Wheel' is good too. While you can colonize it and protect it if not in a city radius, the further away from your core the harder it is to maintain.

May the Merciful one be with you!
Charis

Got it

Rowain

The years till 2150BC

2550BC(0T): Lux back to 10%;

IT: India settles Madras NE of our Capital;

2510BC: exploring; move the Settler to the SW to get Wheat and Cattle;

2470BC: Lux up to 20%

2430BC: even more exploring;

2390BC: Damaskus founded; Warrior starte; Lux to 30%;

IT: A carthagian Warrior pops a Goody-Hut just before I can reach it :(

2350 BC: The know nothing we lack;Mecca buils Settler starts next and Lux back to10%

2310 BC: Mecdca grows Lux to 20%;

2230BC(8): Lux to 40% Settller due next turn; Carthago knows the wheel. I buy it for Pottery and 130 gold;

2190BC Mecca builds Settler starts Worker, Baghdad founded( Warrior) Damascus fin Warrior starts Temple; Lux to 10%

IT Carthago starts Pyramids;

2150 BC nothing new; Settler is in Mecca;



Our Land:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/OurLand.jpg


The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-2150BC.zip)

Any Comments (critics) appreciated

Rowain

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor (currently playing)
Hotrod0823 (on deck)
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

I see it, but I would like everyone to look at the city placement. If we are going to change a city location, now is the time to do it.

1) Do we want two cities on the coast?
2) Do we want to put down the fifth city now, or hit India first and get the lux native?

:hammer: India :hammer:

Enough said?

=====================

Two coastal cities could be rough - Damascus could move N,E onto the forest and still get the wheat and cows.

That was what I was thinking myself, do we want to move the city?

From the looks of the map I see no reason to move it.

N,E onto the forest looks like it would have 2 overlap squares with Mecca...a city that already has 2 squares lost to mostly unusable coast squares.

However, I do totally agree with the smashing of India as I don't relish the idea of war elephants in mass.

Mecca has already expanded and once the Madras site expands it will pickup the horses and I don't see any overlap with Mecca or Medina.

I meant that a move to the forest square would then cause overlap.

I'm against a move:

a) Damascus has 11 landtiles to work on so until Hospitals it won't feel any difference.

b) once it has a hospital Techs and researching are so expansive that we need the commercial boost the sea tiles provide us

c) building a City with overlap is not the best when you have only 5 cities and must try to spread as far as possible to cover as much land (=resources) as possible.

On other topic:
:hammer: India is good.

Question: As much as I would like the Wines but the India-capital is quite far away . won't that hurt us corruption-wise?

If we really want the India capital I suggest using Madras too(dispanding Damaskus) and move the Palace to Madras

Rowain

Rowain's plan sounds pretty good...Madras and the vineyard.

2150 BC (Pre-turn)
We are no where near to attacking India. We have 4 cities and 3 warriors, no barracks. I swap Damascus from temple to barracks. It will be at least 20 turns before we can be ready, so I see if Gandhi wants a trade. He refuses. I then renegotiate peace and get Mysticism for the Wheel and 12g. Funny thing is, he goes from cautious to polite! We offer Hannibal Mysticism and he immediately offers his complete treasury. We will wait a turn to see if it goes up.
(I) Mecca trains a worker and begins a barracks.

2110 BC (1)
Start new worker on roading toward Damascus. We need some more shields there. The old worker starts mining the cow. Hannibal get Mysticism for 130g as I spot one of his guys moving towards Gandhi. At least that gives us enough to buy one worker.

2070 BC (2)
No much happening and no worker for sale. Medina did grow so taxes are reset to 6.1.3, 6gpt.
(I) Nada.

2030 BC (3)
Same song second verse.
(I) Bagdad builds a warrior and starts a temple.

1990 BC (4)
The sleep of the truely bored.

1950 BC (5)
Start mining Damascus' cow and Hannibal goes back to polite as our scout leaves his territory.

1910 BC (6)
Mecca grew but no additional taxes were needed. Still no stinking workers. I was hoping to get one more without having to build it. We will have to squeeze a couple in the hard way then.
(I) Medina finishes barracks and starts worker.

1870 BC (7)
Still no worker for sale. I contemplate sending a warrior up near Gandhi to threaten him and make him draw his workers in but discard such thoughts. We will be razing his cities soon enough. By the way he has 5 now. I have to move lux to 80% for one stinking pop point in Medina? I pull the MP out of Mecca and send it that way.
(I) Mecca finishes its barracks and starts a worker.

1830 BC (8)
Warrior arrives in Medina, I can turn lux down to 50% until worker finishes in Mecca.
(I) Medina builds worker starts archer.

1790 BC (9)
sleep walking.
(I) Meeca build a worker and starts a spear.

1750 BC (10)
Adjust taxes back to 5.4.1. still no stinking worker, of course we have 4 now so it isn't as critical. New worker is moving to road to Bagdad and help it out.

We are now ready to fill out our MP and build our army for taking out the Indians. We cna probably do a good job starting with 6-7 archers and a couple of spears.

LK42 1750 BC Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1750BC.zip)

I grabbed the game from the uploads folder and will play either tonight or tomorrow the latest.

The corrected link is
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1750BC.zip

============================

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor
Hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Mystery13 (on deck)

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

1750 BC (0): Whip the temple in Badgad. Change Damascus to temple. Diplo check confirms that there will be no war with India during my turns, only 10 turns remaining.

1725 BC (1): Bagdad builds temple starts barracks. Roading toward Bagdad continues. Mecca grows and can remain at 40% lux.

1700 BC (2): No changes, temple at Damascus next turn. Spear at Mecca next turn. Carthage has writing but India does not. Hannibal will not trade.

1675 BC (3): Spear built in Mecca, start another. Turn lux down to 30%, Math still in 12 with +4 gpt.

1650 BC (4): Lux back to 40% to keep Mecca happy. Carthage will still not trade writing.

1625 BC (5): The conscript is moved to Mecca for MP duty and lux reduceds to 30%.

1600 BC (6): Mecca builds spear starts archer. India now has Writing and will sell it for 170 of our 214 gold. I decline, not sure we need it yet. with Math due in 9 turns we should be able to trade for it.

1575 BC (7): Lux upto 40% again to keep Medina and Mecca at peace.

1550 BC (8): Mecca and Medina build archers, Mecca start worker, Medina temple.

1525 BC (9): Mecca builds worker starts spear. Damascus gets a scientist, research at 0%, lux can remain at 40%. To keep Damascus happy would require 80% lux.

1500 BC (10): Zulus build the Oracle. Sending the conscript to Damascus for MP duty.

We are up to 3 archers, 2 spears and 4 warriors. Math is due in 5 with 1 scientist on duty in Damascus. Income is 4 gpt. Carthage and India both have writing but want 170+ gold for it. The 2 scouts are done with the island and are coming home. Consider disbanding to save the upkeep as we are now over the 16 unit limit by 1. Building 2 more barracks, completed 2 temples and started another. Also added a worker from Mecca. Mecca builds archers or spears 1 every 2 turns. Workers or warriors every turn. Should consider a temple soonish as well. Possibly now we could move on India.

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1500BC.zip

got it...should have it back tomorrow night

We must now decide how our land should look.

a) the current 4 + Madras (cause it is close to our capital = low corruption)

or

b) Baghdad + Mecca + Medina + Madras + wineyard with palace move to Madras .

If the latter a Temple in Damascus is waste and it should switch to Barrack and start some troops instead.


The more I think about it the more I prefer the second Version caudse we then have at least one Luxurie and with Baghdad and Madras 2 high shield Cities.

Rowain

Preturn We have a settler in Mecca. Since our plan is to take
Madras and possibly Bombay, I send him to join with Baghdad instead of waiting for 20 turns to grow once. Nothing else to change.

IT Mecca builds spear, switch to bow.

(1)1475BC Move mini-SOD of 3 archer, 2 spear toward Madras.

IT The Indians are building the Pyramids.

(2)1450BC not much

(3)1475BC Must wait to merge the settler or there will be a
food shortage.

(4)1400BC not much

IT We get math...I'll see what we can get in trade, but I set
our sights on writing for now.

(5)1375BC We build another Archer for a total of 5. Time to attack
Madras and set up our new capital city. Must disband the scouts so they stop costing 1gpt as we are now negative.
Math to Carthage for IW. Math +15 gold to India for Writing. Since we are at 0 science I go for Currency next for possible trade value. The Indians have Iron in two places but neither likely hooked up. We have one Iron deposit just outside our cultural borders.

(6)1350BC disbanded the scouts. We are now at -1gpt. Will maybe start disbanding the regular warriors, or throwing them into battle, as we replace them with vet spears.

(7)1325BC I must go now...the Indians have two workers on the square next to Madras that I'm sure we can use.

(8)1300BC One turn delay on the attack as the 2 workers we captured put us across a river from Madras. No use giving them the bonus.

(9)1275BC The attack on Madras...first Archer wins...second Archer wins and promotes! Madras is ours! All available units go in this turn to quell the resistance.

IT Carthage builds the Pyramids.

(10)1250BC I leave the warrior in Madras. Will leave one spear
on the hill next to Madras on guard duty. Will starve down to 1
citizen to eliminate the flip risk (just 1 citizen).
We now have 5 cities. If we want Bombay, Damascus must be disbanded. Ok, that's it. India looks weak. However, if we kill them off Carthage will have free reign on our continent. I would suggest taking Bombay if we want it and leaving the cities to the North alone. Perhaps we can persuade what is left of India to settle the jungle between us and Carthage. Oh, if we take out Bombay, take Calcutta as well.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1250BC.zip

I opened up the save file for a look, and had a few thoughts...

- You guys are doing well :p India is in trouble
- Be careful with entertainers. Damascus had one for no reason whatsoever (probably not adjusted after you got your temple). In Medina there was an entertainer that could/should have been a taxman. (Actually, once road is done, the city income will be such that you won't need one due to taxes) In captured Madras, there were two clowns that should have been taxmen.
- This compounds the sci research. You have 0% and so infinite turns to next tech. One of the clowns above should probably be a scientist.
- Bombay?? With 4 mountains and a coast, this would be an awful city cite for 5CC
- Once you 'clean house' you can post six troops at the narrow point and totally seal off your homeland from land invasion. Sea invasions are a joke, just wipe 'em out :P That will let you set
up colonies on those nice Bombay wines without wasting a city site there. Bangalore is almost a nice site, a good front line, with iron, wheat, horses and hills, but the desert is unappealing.
- Very tough map to get a good overall dotmap with. So many "one off" squares, or overlap. Even seeing the whole map it's hard, much less with fog and resources missing. Madras is definitely a good one, it may become your premiere city. Damascus will be the weakest, but there's no compelling reason to disband it for any other one. Bangalore would end up a 80 shield city due to the need to irrigate all that desert (unless it sees coal for Iron works :P ). Damascus will be in the 60's range. Mecca will be borderline 90. Medina will be great food but won't exceed 70'ish shields (all these numbers are post-railroad) Madras will be the only 90-100 shield city you have. Basically, when fully improved you'll end up with 3.0 top units per turn instead of 4-5. Not awful, but do be aware of this. Income should be decent.

Good luck, so far you're doing well :)
Charis

Hmmm...are you sure Charis? I mean about the entertainers in Madras? This turn I set them to starve so next turn the entertainer falls away. The entertainers in the other two could have been taxmen for sure...I sometimes forget to see if they'll work.

Wait, you say Damascus didn't need it at all? When I checked it turn 9 it had one happy face, two content, one sad and one entertainer. The war declaration with India may have turned the sad face content and I didn't notice it on turn 10.

I've got to be a bit more careful checking the state of the union after war declarations I think.

LKendter (currently playing)
Rowain deWolf (on deck)
Meldor
Hotrod0823
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

1250 BC (pre-turn) - I start a 40-turn gambit on Polytheism.

1200 BC - We destroy Bombay that only had one defender?

1150 BC - We run out of units so I try a 4 hp spearman vs. a 2 hp archer and raze Delhi!
We certainly can enjoy 2 free workers - unit costs are killing us.

1125 BC - Carthage has map-making for sale, but who can afford 2nd civ prices?

1100 BC - We get our first leader [dance]
It came from an Archer. I think this is the first time I ever got a leader from that unit.

1075 BC - I join our settler into Madras - I want good Arabian citizens in that city, plus we need to lower our unit count!

1050 BC - Thanks to our wine colony, luxuries are reduced to 20%.
(I) We can't afford 2 enemies, so I give into the demands of Carthage.

1025 BC - Demonic Spearman defend Calcutta, and we lose 4 archers for nothing. :mad:
It is time for pointy stick research. I sign up for 20 turns of peace with India and I get $8, wm, and Map Making.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-264.jpg
The above is NOT India, as I have accounted for all of there cities.

Summary - We didn't need the 30% bonus for this on to be a challenge.
We share our continent with Carthage who got the Pyramids :eek:

Save the leader for the Great Library, hopefully we can get literature soon.

LKendter
Rowain deWolf (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Hotrod0823
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1000BC.zip

1025 BC - Demonic Spearman defend Calcutta, and we lose 4 archers for nothing.

Maybe the RNG was just trying to help with our unit costs:)

Till 750 BC

Build some Cathapults; and a new Wine-colony: I suggest building some Workers from Mecca and Medina and colonize all the Wines. Block any probale AI-city-sites with Units and we can have our one Luxury at least.

Started the Lighthouse in Damascus but this could be switched (perhaps as a prebuild for Lib and the Leader for Hanging Gardens. Considering our Lux-situation we will need Hanging Gardens and Bach for Happiness.

In 875 BC Contact with Babylon. Sold them Alphabeth and then Mathe for Horseback Riding, World Map and all their Gold.

We are still the only one who knows Hammurabi. India and Carthage lack Horseback Riding and Babylone needs Writing. No one has a tech we need.

Rowain

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-750BC.zip)

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor (currently playing)
Hotrod0823 (on deck)
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

I see it but it won't be tonight

750 BC (Pre-turn)
I think about whipping the granary in Bagdad, but there really isn't anything else that is needed that bad to do so. Same for the harbor in Medina. If we whip we just might be able to pull an extra lux from the Babs IF they have a harbor. It would be a double whip and would only save two turns. I don't do it and decide to wait. Gandhi is being a bad boy and hooking up iron. We will have to kill him off really soon. We need to eliminate civs as early as we can. At least one or two.
(I) Gandhi complains we have a galley in his waters. Mecca builds a catapult starts a horseman. Madras completes its Barracks and starts a horseman.

730 BC (1)
ZZZZZ
(I) Indians move settler/archer pair towards our colonies. Medina finishes the harbor and starts a galley.

710 BC (2)
ZZZZ
(I) More of the same.

690 BC (3)
I move two archers to help the spear keep the pair away from the colonies. Lets see if they get there in time. One was not on a road and so lost a turn in pursuit. Bagdad will expand its borders in two turns to include the iron. I move two workers up to start roading it.
(I) Mecca produces a horseman and starts another. Bagdad finishes its granary and starts a horseman. The Carthaginians are building the Great Wall.

670 BC (4)
Start playing ring a round the settler. Can't pry construction out of Carthage for love nor gpt.
(I) Nada.

650 BC (5)
More fun with Gandhi's city wannabe's.
(I) Medina finishes the galley and begins a Horseman.

630 BC (6)
Mecca grew. I add a taxman as we can't afford more lux and we need the Scientist. Is Gandhi mad yet? 3 more turns.....I build embassies with Carthage and Babylon. I don't with India as I am hoping they won't be around much longer.
(I) Mecca and Madras train a horsemen and starts more.

610 BC (7)
We have iron now. Swap Mecca to build a sword.
(I) Nada

590 BC (8)
Seeing as we may be attacking India next turn, I sell them our WM for all of their treasury. I then sell it to the other two for 99g.
(I)

570 BC (9)
Gandhi's settler has been pushed back into his own territory. I would attack Gandhi this turn but we have 3 more units do interturn and I can wait. As a matter of fact I may wait and let the next person have all the fun!
(I) Mecca builds a swordsman and starts another. Medina and Bagdad build horsemen and start more.

550 BC (10)
Sword moves towards Bangalore, the horsemen towards Calcutta. The troops are ready. I get 5g more out of Gandhi for the WM.

Kill India, do not stop until their last city is gone. We need to cut down on the number of high production shield cities the AI has. The fewer civs the better.

[EDIT] Pillage the iron first, it is right there.

LK42 550 BC Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-550BC.zip)

Corrected link
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-550BC.zip

=====================================

Can't pry construction out of Carthage for love nor gpt.
Did we miss getting literature and the great library? We had the leader to do so.

=====================================

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor
Hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Mystery13 (on deck)

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

I've got it but will not be able to start until tomorrow.

Edit: Lee caught the extra ) first ;).

Hotrod

perhaps no one researched Literature till now

Rowain

Literature has not shown up as yet. We are still working on Poly and it will finish slightly before the Lighthouse (which may not be bad for us looking at the map) Medina could be switched to palace pre-build if needed. Lighthouse in ~13, Poly ~10, IIRC. We are in bad need of some more luxes. We may have to go build a harbor for Babylon so we can get spices. Also, Babylon was building a settler (the only place for that is on our lands, and at the time the embassy was built Carthage had about 45 turns to go on the Great Wall. A third Galley was built to speed up to the north of Carthage and explore that island up there, hopefully to move on and find more civs. I would hate to lose the GL because we were behind and didn't know it.

LK42 :

550 BC (0): MM Damascus to shave 1 turn off lIghthouse. Looks like we will be good to go against India next turn. Polytheism is due in 10 with a lone scientist and cannot be improved.

INBTN: Hannibal asks us to leave I will comply. Trade wines for spice and his 50 gold.

530 BC (1): Declare war on India. Lose a vet archer to a vet warrior unfortified in the desert. Capture 2 workers by Banglore kill archer by Calcutta will attack city next turn.

510 BC (2): Madras builds horseman starts another. Raze Calcutta losing 1 horseman, only 1 elite spear was defending. Disconnect the iron after 2 fails cat attempts. Will move on Banglore next turn. Kill the warrior and take 2 more slaves.

IBNT: India counters with a sword that kills a lone archer in the desert.

490 BC (3): Mecca builds sword starts another. Medina horse starts horse. Raze Bangalore losing 3 archers :(.

470 BC (4): Regroup and rest. Use the slaves to connect our roads to the frontlines.

450 BC (5): Continue moving units to the front and will rest to get full health. Carthage now has Philosophy and will trade but wants Contact, no deals.

430 BC (6): join a couple more units to the stack outside Jaipur territory.

410 BC (7): Carthage builds Great Lighthouse 5 turns before we would've had ours :(. A lone spear from india is moving our way, let it go for now will not attack it in the mountains. Another wave of swords is heading north. Was reluctant to use the leader on the Great Lighthouse, there is nothing to switch to except the palace :(, or a really expensive harbor.

390 BC (8): Move stack up toward Jaipur.

370 BC (9): Bomb and miss 2/3 times. Not happy with our chances, spears on a hill :hmmm:. Attack Jailpur, kill 3 spears losing 1 swords and promote 1 archer, raze the city. Madras grew and now needs a taxman.

350 BC (10): Learn Polytheism, start lit, but it can be changed. Can trade it to Carthage Philosophy, 120 gold and 2 gpt. Or he will take 400+ gold and Poly for Construction. That way our Dammascus shields will not go to waste but how useful is the Great Wall. Currently on Literature with our lone scientist but it can be research in as little as 10 with major cash drain -31gpt. As it is we only get 3 gpt a min science. Babs still don't have any new contacts and lack Maps and now Poly.

Damascus is 10 turns from the palace and can be slowed to 20 turns, if we run at a shortage. Lit can be had in 19 turns running -14gpt.

Hotrod

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-350BC.zip

Losing the Great Lighthouse was a bummer but I think that using the leader for the Great Library is better in the long run. We still haven't found the other civs but our galley has just now reached the top of Carthage and will begin making it to the east side of that island. The palace pre build is still active for at least 20 turns if we run a shortage and the leader is still in the Capital for the great library or Hanging gardens as Rowain suggested.

The biggest problem is that carthage got the Pyramids, now the lighthouse and will not trade anything less than the 400+ gold and polytheism for construction. That is another option but then we are broke but stole the greatwall, not much use for only 5 cities.

got it, will try to get lit as soon as feasible for the Library

If we leader rush the library before they get the GW maybe we can steal it as well. Also, if we get the GL and thenm make contact with more advanced AI we could possibly have Sun's or Leo's....Sistines anyone?

LKendter (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Meldor
Hotrod0823
Mystery13 (currently playing)

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Preturn...a quick look around. Wow, Carthage is big. It will be
quite a chore to keep them from settling South toward us.
Ok, a decision. Literature will take 9 turns at -34gpt. That is
306 gold. I say we do it on our own and not chance losing it to
someone we haven't met yet. We are paying 23gpt for military now. With 16 units we have enough to take India so I will scale back the military building a bit.

(1)330BC It appears that we've removed the entire Indian Army in one turn.

IT Carthage builds the Great Wall.

(2)310BC Damn, I can't scale back on the military building. There
is nothing else to build and wealth only gives us 3gpt back. Military it is for now. I'm going to try a suicide run into the Great Abyss. What the heck, we can afford the unit right now.

IT We lose the galley with no land sited. Landmass must be farther to the North.

(3)290BC Moving toward the elimination of India.

(4)270BC We take Lahore with no loss.

(5)250BC India is about to meet Babylon so I dial them up to see
about a trade. They will offer their world map and 70 gold for
contact with the Indians so I take it. Carthage now has Code of
Laws and Currency as well. Currency and Construction prices are
prohibitive, and with the GL coming I won't pay for them. Instead,
we go Polytheism and Bab contact for Code of Laws, Philo, World Map and 190 Gold. I swap to a Courthouse in Madras as we are losing 30% of our shields and 40% of our income there.

IT Our first Palace expansion! Big deal:)

(6)230BC Not much

(7)210BC We take Karachi and Kolhapur. Most remaining Indian
cities have been on hills so we have taken 5 unit losses total
as a result.

(8)190BC We lose two horsies against a very stout warrior (attacking from a hill no less!)

IT We get Literature and swap the Palace. This should save our
leader for the next great thing...like taking Sun Tzu away from Carthage for instance. The same turn Carthage starts the GL!

(9)170BC Carthage has started the GL in Leptis Minor, a size 6
city gaining probably 6 shields per turn. Damascus will complete
it in 10. Next leaders call whether or not to use the Great Leader
to finish it. I think we'll beat them, as long as they don't start
a war with somebody and get a leader of their own.

IT Babylon asks to trade territory maps. I agree since world maps are well known at this point. But be wary...

(10)150BC We have a galley that is three turn into a suicide mission with no land in site...sheesh. Another galley off the coast of Carthage island is waiting for a suicide run. Not really much else for our galleys to do right now.

Next leader, remember to decide on the Great Library. Leader or let the palace prebuild finish. I tried valiantly to find the other land mass but to no avail. Also, we're shadowing an Indian boat cruising around the South end of our nation.

I have science shut off with a scientist in Mecca. India has one city left plus the galley. The one city is size 1 with 1 extra warrior floating around. We have plenty on the way to eliminate it. We have a lot of troops in old Indian country...should we use them to blockade Carthaginian land forces? Or will that make no difference when they decide to come South?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-150BC.zip

Would it be wise to use the leader to build the GL in another city and keep Damascus on palace build? How close is the build?

150 BC (pre-turn) - I took a look at the map - we have a valid trade route to Babylon. We need the ding-dongs to build a harbor so that we can start trading luxuries.

The great library is a very tough call. The trouble is nothing to cascade the library to, and just 9 turns to go. A switch to Palace will finish in ONE turn. The major problem where are the rest of the civs? I have no clue how close anyone else is. The bigger problem with other civs is that I don't see the typical clues to another land mass.

I switch our 40-turn research to Republic. I don't know if we will see that anytime soon with the backwards Babylonians.

130 BC - This will get ugly, but I spot a Carthage settler guarded by warrior. I cancel wines for spices. We must slow this monster down, so I declare war and gain two more cheap laborers.
I spot the border for another civ - time to pray the galley lives.

The 3-turn suicide galley also spots a border, and makes CONTACT. [dance]
WTH - Persia is behind us in tech. I get contact with Rome and Korea for contact with Babylon and Polytheism. Rome wants our map bad enough to give us $79 and contact with the Zulu. The Koreans give us $130 for our map. I establish embassies with all the new civs.

(I) Both galleys sink, but they did the job.

110 BC - The rogue archer from India landed, and is dead.

70 BC - India is DEAD! [dance]
(I) The people are so happy that they put steps on the palace.

10 BC - WAHOO - Babylon has built a harbor. We ship him poly, and get incense and wines.

10 AD (I) [party] The Great Library is completed. [party]

30 AD (I) Here comes the goodies - Currency, Monarchy, Construction, Monotheism,


Summary - Well the shield pool has been reduced, as India is dead.
You should see a Carthage unit stack appear in range of our horse SOD.

Save the leader for the Sun Tzu - I really don't want face an AI with mostly vet troops.

LKendter (currently playing)
Rowain deWolf
Meldor (on deck)
Hotrod0823
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-50AD.zip

Very cool, everything worked exactly as I had foreseen...2...3...4.
Ok, maybe we got really lucky instead but I'll take it!

Guess I'm up now ;)

Will try to play and post tonight.

Great we got the Lib [party]

Persia, Rome and Zulu on one landmass? No wonder they are behind :lol:

Rowain

As we are at war with Carthage, should we make an army and get the HE going so we can generate more leaders? It would be a risk, but with a pre-build or another leader we could probably take Sun's.

50AD(0): Since we are religious and know Monarchy and 3 of our 5 cities have more then 6 pop I start a revolution.

IT: Carthago sends 2 warriors + 1SM + 1 NM

70AD: We are now a Monarchy and Madras, Medina and Baghdad are now at 10 shields after waste instead of 9; Scientist is now in Mecca. The aforementioned Carthagians are dead.

90AD:
We learn Republic I start Engineering. Carthago lands a Settler + 1NM near our Wines.

110AD: It costs a Horse but we have 2 new Slaves.
Babylon settles on our ccontinent but no danger for our colonies.

130AD: As a big Swordstack with NM are sighted I move our Units on the High-Ground to force them on the plains.

IT: The Carthagians obey.

150AD: Kill 7 Units losing 1 .

170AD: kill 4 more.

IT: Babylon declares War :eek: on Carthago :D

190AD The last of ~ 15 Carthagian Units impales himself :)

210AD: Carthago starts Sun-Tzu

230, 250 killing some more Units



Damaskus has now an Aqueduct and Mecca a Cathedral; Medina will get an Aque in 2 turns then all our cities will soon be up on 12 pop. We are still No.2 in Pop now.

Good Luck Meldor :)

Rowain

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-250AD.zip)

210AD: Carthago starts Sun-Tzu

The leader debate is over. As soon as Feudalism pops from the GL - rush it. Not to much value to us, but I don't want to face a nation with mostly vets

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor (currently playing)
Hotrod0823 (on deck)
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Ouch this one and LK39....ok, I will get this one first.

I go ahead and do this one rather than start on LK39. That will have to wait until tomorrow night.

250 AD (Pre-turn)
Nothing to change but some nice new building to start. Market places to rotate build inbtween military. Carthage will talk but won't give up fueldalism, the only thing I would think about peace for, especailly if we have already absorbed his big push. Its downhill from here for him.
(I) Madras completes a market and starts a horseman.

260 AD (1)
Consolidate our forces and rest them. There are six more units to attack but not until next turn.
(I) Mecca builds a swordsman and starts a market. Medina completes its aqueduct and staarts a horseman. Bagdad finishes a wordsman and goes for a horseman.

270 AD (2)
Cats fo 3for3 on an NM and sword. Kill both of those and an archer.
(I) We lose the sils from Babylon as we are now unable to trade with them.

280 AD (3)
Cats go 2for3. I kill 3 swords and 1 archer, but will likely lose a vet horse to a counter. I have to go to 30% lux to replace the silks. I will try and maybe get spices during my turn if I can raze the city next to them.
(I) I do indeed lose the horseman but Madras buils a replacement.

290 AD (4)
Cats again go 2for3 but I don't attck the sword. To do so would expose a horse to a counter and it isn't worth it at this point. I am also putting a few horses scattered hither and yon for invasion protection. Hammie is back in business. Since he did us dirty last time he now gives Inscense, Silks, and WM for our wines. We drop back down to 9.0.1.
(I) Medina completes a horseman and starts a marketplace. Bagdad finishes a Horseman and starts another.

300 AD (5)
Cats only 1:3 this turn. I take out 1 NM.
(I) Sword dies against our fortified spear on a hill.

310 AD (6)
Cats again 1:3. RnG turns against us as we lose two horses without killing any units. We are mow facing MDI.
(I) Spear takes out 2 swords and goes Elite before dying be the third. A fourth sword causes a horse to retreat. Madras completes a horseman and starts a Sword. The Romans start the Hanging Gardens.

320 AD (7)
The cats go 3:3 and tow of those are on the MDI. We take him out and the now 1HP sword that took our spear.
(I) We lose one horse but they lose two swords. Mecca finishes its market and starts a sword. Damascus completes its cathedral and starts a sword. Bagdad is finished with a Horse and starts a market.

330 AD (8)
Cats go 3:3 again, I have never had this kind of sucess with them before. We kill two NM without loss.
(I) We get a fancy new front to our cave.

340 AD (9)
Not much action as we wait for more units to come to the fore.
(I) No attacks just movement. Mecca and Madras build a sword and start another.

350 AD (10)
Cats go 2:3. We take out two MDI and an archer but it costs one horse.

I have been running two cities on infra builds and three on military and it has been a stand still. However it will get harder with MDI on the scene now. It would be nice if we got Fuedalism sometime soon. I also wonder if we triggered Carthage's GA at some point. We may have to drop to 4 military or even all military until we get Sun's.

LK42 350 AD Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-350AD.zip)

210AD: Carthago starts Sun-Tzu

It would be nice if we got Fuedalism sometime soon.

I took a look at the game - *4* civs are even with us in tech, I can't believe none of them are up to feudalism. With a possible cartho ga we need to get it asap. Carthage with all vets would be very hard to deal with.


===========================

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor
Hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Mystery13 (on deck)

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

I have it and will try to get it back tomorrow night. Just finished the longest 5 turns I have ever played in inf2 game.

It may be worth us making peace for the tech. We can then (hopefully) get our horsemen and swords upgraded and go back at them. Our main problem is that we really need to get rid of both Carthage and Babylon before Astronomy. That way we can limit the resettling of the land and be ready to hit the others with Cav as soon as we can.

LK42

350 AD (0): With only 5 cities not much to think about so change nothing. After the marketplaces may goto all Military. Carthage has 4 MI, 1 sword and 2 Mercs. in the area. Our horseman have outlasted there welcome. The Mercs are as strong as pikes and the IIRC the MI in the jungle are a tough kill. Not sure how long we can last with out MI of our own and some Ansar warriors wouldn't hurt :).

IBTN: Lose 2 horsemen to MI :(.

360 AD (1): Wound 3 Mercs. But take no chances and don't attack them in the jungles.

370 aD (2): Reinforcements are making the slow trip North. Wound an MI in the open try and kill it with a 3/4 vet horse and the horse dies. Will sit tight until reinforcements arrive.

380 AD (3): Babs settler another city on our continent and also complete the Hanging Gardens. Carthage hasn't changed to that city with SunZu yet. Continue to move swords Northward, wound another Merc in the Jungle. There are now 3 groups of Carthage units but all are on hills or in the jungles and with only few swords to attack with and protect I continue sit and wait for the swords to arrive.

390 AD (4): Rome Demands Territory Map and 64 gold. They are far enough away and I refuse. We are now at War with Rome. Carthage Stacks bypass us and head for the new Bab city, except 1 elite sword. He attacks and dies :). The sword parade north continues. Kill 1 MI.

Babylon starts sistenes chapel.

400 AD (5): Couple swords arrive and manage to kill 1 MI. Hannibal will not give up Feudalism and now has knights or so the advisor says. One shot at taking the City of Calaris and maybe we can get Feudalism from him. Can't risk not getting the SunZu Now. 3 new swords will join the stack and 3 more are not far behind.

410 AD (6): Carthage Knight manage 2 kill one of the newly arrived Swords. Carthage will take gold for Peace and Feudalism. Can't believe that we haven't gotten it from the library. Kill 1 Merc. but lose a sword attacking another wounded merc. on a hill.

After Losing all 4 swords in the stack as well as 2 more horseys Peace with Carthage will come soon. I wonder how much Feudalism will cost ????

420 AD (7): The Soothsayers have spoken !!! Finally Feudalism is learned and the Great Leader is moved to Madras (only because its shield bin was empty and SunZu is rushed [dance]). All cities are now Medieval infantry. Upgrade 5 swords for 100 gold. Kill 3 more Carthage units our only elite wins but no leader. After killing his units dial up Hannibal and talk peace. He will not give up tech but I don't think the Stack will last any more assults from the Knights. We get peace, 13 gold and 12 gpt. He will trade Chivalry for a mear 39 gpt, all our 964 gold and WM. Engineering is cheaper at a 830 gold. There are no trades for tech. I hope is Golden age is about over. His units came very fast and he is screaming ahead in tech.

430 aD (8): Build SunZu in Madras, Learn Engineering form the Great Library and start on invention. Carthage Knights are feeling the need to head south. Form up a block or the starting of a block on the Mountains to the North.

440 AD (9): Buy Carthage Spice for 112 gold. Drop Lux to 0%, income is now 68 gpt. with 957 in the bank. He will not trade. Building a few pikes to send to the Mountains.

450 aD (10): Change to infrastructure focus. We will need those cathedrals when the lux deals are expired :hammer:. The other civs are either on par with us in Tech or lagging. Those behind have zero gold, Rome is still fighting a war with us :lol: and will not meet, but they did start Sistenes Chapel. Carthage has Chivalry and knights but will not trade it. At least not at a fair price. We can try to steal for 600+ gold or wait for a Careful option or hope for the best and get it from the library. I did not upgrade any spears to pikes as there is no immediate need. Babylon still lacks iron and horses and is behind in tech by engineering. A war with them brings nothing but spears and bowman :D. There are 4 turns left on our lux deal. Medina can get galleys 1 every 2 turns :hammer:.

Good luck here is the game.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-450AD.zip

got it

A war with them brings nothing but spears and bowman

Don't forget a golden age :(

===============================

LKendter (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Meldor
Hotrod0823
Mystery13 (currently playing)

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

They are already at war with Carthage and should be in there golden age now.

Hotrod

Preturn A quick look around shows we have one ship, a galley, in
Medina. Not exactly what we need to take Babylon so I will spend
my turn focusing on infrastructure and ship building for the next
leader. I change Madras from Library to MDI, Medina from Cathedral to Galley. Neither building was necessary now. Baghdad is still building its Cathedral and Damascus its Market. Mecca is already done with infrastructure and is on military build full time now.

(1)460AD I notice Madras, in general, is using mined unproductive
grassland and irrigating plains. This is fine for now but will be
much better reversed when rails come along.

(2)470AD Babylon has a settler pair heading out for the wines. There are two turns remaining on our deal so I'll have to try and stall them.

(3)480AD Troop movement and blocking maneuvres. We can take it to the Babs next turn...maybe.

(4)490AD Nope, not yet. I want a force ready to invade when we
declare and for now I have the Bab settler heading North.

IT Koreans want to trade territory maps. Sure, doesn't seem like
anything is unknown right now. Also, the silks deal expires with
Babylon and Carthage boats a settler around our blockade. Ouch.

(5)500AD I think now is a good time to swap to Republic...before
we hit Babylon (though Carthage is expanding so fast I'm not sure if we shouldn't restart the hostilities with them first).

(6)510AD Ok, we're getting 11 more gpt, but with lux up to 20% for a few turns. we have three cities getting a Cathedral online and then lux can go back down.

IT Cartage is building Leonardo. Education almost certainly next.
Is anyone else researching??? sheesh.

(7)520AD Not much...sending out some ships from Medina in case
Leader Lee would like to do some bashing on the Babs.

(8)530AD Not much again. I've blocked off the entire wine colony
area from settling. Carthage is trying to settle near the wheat just outside of our territory. They are not going to let us stay peaceful for much longer.

IT Damn Babs settle on a hill just outside our borders but one
expansion from our wine colonies. That does it, Babs first!

(9)540AD Babylon will not renegotiate peace for silks and incense
(to replace the wines they will take) so I declare war. We have
plenty of cash on hand, so I hurry the Cathedrals in Medina and
Madras (about 200 gold total) so that we can go back to military.

IT Well isn't that the way it goes. Carthage blasts the Bab
coastal city with Knights and almost takes the new city.

(10)550AD We knock out the remaining Bab city. I'm trying to
block the coast to our East. If we can keep Carthage North of
us, maybe we won't have to attack them so soon. Still, they filled
in all of the jungle and desert to the North of us during my turns
so we are in a bit of trouble with these guys. Rome wants us to
pay 140 gold for a peace treaty so forget it. Carthage is furious
with us??? Lee, if you don't want to war with them during your turns you'd better try for an Alliance of some sort. I think they want this continent for themselves. Also, I was one turn late on
the Medina cathedral. It finishes this turn and should allow lux
to be dialed back. Three loaded boats can land in Babylon next
turn...or they can sail North. I believe Hotrod's spice deal with
Carthage ends soon as well. Good luck!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-550AD.zip

Lee, you're well past your 24 hour "got it" rule

WTH?
I have no idea where the post went.

The below was downloaded at 24-Feb-2003 00:20 203k
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-650AD.zip

Short summary -
War with Carthage
We got Chivalry, Ansars and a golden age.
Nailed 2 cities the first couple turns of the war.

Will repost full summary when I have laptop and the game access.

Did we get Sun's?

Originally posted by hotrod0823
LK42

420 AD (7): The Soothsayers have spoken !!! Finally Feudalism is learned and the Great Leader is moved to Madras (only because its shield bin was empty and SunZu is rushed [dance]).


Enough said?

550 AD (pre-turn) - Not much to change, though I wish someone other then Carthage would research.

560 AD (I) - We finally get a new tech from the library - Invention.

600 AD (I) - Babylon and Carthage sign a peace treaty. I wonder if 1/2 dozen units next to a Babylon city influenced that?
We learn Chivalry from the library [dance]

610 AD - Gee, Babylon will sign a peace treaty now. I still feel they deserve a little punishment, and raze Akkad since I am already there. After that, I am nice and sign the treaty for pocket change.
I send them wines and $8/turn for incense and silks. This lets me drop the luxury tax to nothing.

620 AD (I) - The tech pace has suddenly gone nuts, and we now get gunpowder from the library.

630 AD (I) - The Zulu are idiots and demand invention - NO! - Another worthless phony war begins.

640 AD - We demand spices from Carthage. General Lee is furious, and another war begins with Carthage. Our new fangled Ansar Warriors attack, and we enter a golden age. While we are at it, we raze Zariqum and snag a few workers along the borders.
(I) - Bite me - Education comes out of the library.

650 AD - We go Medieval and auto-raze al-Kaf.


Summary - If we are every going to take a major bite out of Carthage, this is the time. 20 years of golden age better do us some good.

I saw a decent SoD by Zouchis on the hill. Our troops are getting organized for the next push.

LKendter
Rowain deWolf (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Hotrod0823
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-650AD.zip

650AD (0T):
Baghdad makes 33 shields and wastes 5. I rush an Ansar and switch it to Courthouse so the CH will finish neext turn ; MEdina has the same problem so it starts a CH;
Madras will grow to size 12 next turn and I will check

Mecca makes 36 shield after waste so nothing to do here and Damaskus makes 29/25 without any chance to get another shield.

IT: we lose a galley, several pikes and Med Inf + 1 slave guarded by a MI ;

660AD: Madras is now Size 12 I try several ways and find finally a way to get 30 shields after waste :) Baghdad uses the new build Courthouse to get this result and I rush CH in MEdina to have 4 cities witch can make an Ansar every 2 turns.
I sell all our Barracks and earn 25 gold ;)
then I try to kill some Cathargians but the RNG is not too nice to us. example: 1 Carthagian Knight (on desert) uses 11 hp of Med Inf to die

IT: Hmpf Our defenders are not that good as Hannibals Knights kill them at their leisure.
Zulu start Leo

670AD: Medina is now our 4 th city which makes 30 shields/turn after waste.

Due to the losses WW is now up and we need 10 % Lux.

680AD:
IT: Our last Galley sinks; Carthago finish Leo

690: we have now a Saltpeter colony.
moving Units around.

720AD: Zouchis razed; Carthago has Chem but nobody else.

730AD : Gigith (new founded city next to Iron east of Medina) is razed;
Lux now at 30% and Damaskus uses the 12th villager as a Scientist(would only wok sea)

740AD Tacape (founded north of our wines) is defended by Muskets :eek:

IT: Babs finish Sistine;

750AD: We raze Tacape and Zano (new founded SE of Medina); With my last attack I charge against a stray Knight and get a Leader.

He and some Workers are left to move. Korea has now Chemistry too. It will cost 1370 gold


I don't know how long we should continue the war with Hannibal but with the Leader now at hand we can make an Army and try to raze some more of his cities. In this case a goverment change would be needed.

Good Luck Meldor :)

Rowain

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-750AD.zip)

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor (currently playing)
Hotrod0823 (on deck)
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

I see it.

750 AD (Pre-turn)
Move the leader back and move some workers.
(I)NuMe tries to sneak past us.

760 AD (1)
Kill the NuMe and form an army. I will load it with Ansar Warriors.
(I) A couple of knights show up.

770 AD (2)
Kill a knight with our army. Raze the city of Thaenae.
(I) Lose one Warrior and 2 Pikes to counters, they lose one knight.

780 AD (3)
Kill two knights and a long bow but it cost two warriors. Mecca is swapped to HE due in 4. Upgrade 10 pikes to muskets.
(I) Lose one MDI to a Knight. Musket causes one to retreat.

790 AD (4)
Kill a kinght and longbow.
(I) The RnG is against me this turn as I lose 2 MDI.

800 AD (5)
I kill two knights and a longbow without loss.
(I) Lose one Warrior more knights and muskets pour into view. Carthage lands a longbow next to Medina.

810 AD (6)
Kill two NuMes and a Longbow and raze the city of Calaris. AW kills Longbow. We kill astray knight but there are 4 more behind it and three muskets. We are about out of units and Carthage is pressing us. I tale peace for Chemistry, 4g and 4gpt and give us time to build up for the next assualt. Make spice colony and drop lux to 20% while keeping all but one city in WLT(Meldor)D.
(I) Carthage withdraws. We get the Heroic Epic. The people love Meldor so much they build addition to palace. the Roman's begin cop's.

820 AD (7)
Start lining up units so Carthage can't easily retake our gains. Trade Chemistry and 241g to the Babs for Astronomy. Swap Mecca to Cop's.
(I) Carthage, Babs and Koreans begin Cop's.

830 AD (8)
Troop movement and resting.
(I) Nada

840 AD (9)
Defensive line complete. Our spice colonies are temporarily safe. Unfortunately we have no one to sell the extra 2 spice to as yet.
(I) Our GA has ended.

850 AD (10)
Not much.

I have three cities building Ansar Warriors, 1 city building Muskets and 1 city building Cop's. I was slowly replacing the AW in the moutains with muskets.

Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-850AD.zip)

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor
Hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Perhaps putting some hurt on Babylon?
Mystery13 (on deck)

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

I've got it!

It might be a good time to buy 3-4 caravels and hit the Bab homeland.

IMPORTANT NOTE: This patch is designed for the US version only and is incompatible with any European version of Civilization III: Play the World.


Lee's patch status:
For the first time EVER, I am **NOT** installing the patch right away.

LK39 has to overseas players.
LK42 has a least one overseas player.

Until I get more clarification on when a European patch will exist, I am **NOT** going to upgrade.
I can't afford to lose 2 players in LK39, as that will effectively end the game.

Haven't played yet and have NOT installed the patch so will start tonight and have it back tomorrow or late tonight un - patched

Hotrod

LK 42 -

850 AD (0): Northern front looks well in hand for the moment. Change Medina to carvel and rush it for 88 gold, change Damascus to harbor, will rush it next turn.

860 AD (1): Medina builds caravel starts another. Hurry harbor in Damascus for 260 gold.

870 AD (2): Rush another caravel in Medina. Can trade with Korea or Carthage 1000+ gold for banking. Hold off for now. Can try to steal it for less.

880 aD (3): Begin loading up 2 caravels, 2 more before we move out. Diplo check reveals Rome has banking and Metallurgy. Carefully steal a tech from Carthage for 1200 gold and succeed. We get Metalurgy on the path to cavalry. still at min science to printing press.

890 AD (4): 2 caravels are loaded up and a 3 is on the way from Damascus.

900 AD (5): Moving ships to the East coast. No one will give reasonable trade for Banking. Moving 3 ansars back from the front lines to fill ships.

910 AD (6): Carthage Declared war on Babylon :). Continue moving ships and units.

920 aD (7): Naval manuvers continue. Make Peace with the Zulu, give astronomy and 100 gold for Banking. Trade Wines to Korea for Gems, WM and 50 gold. They are now just Annoyed.

930 AD (8): Babylon cancels the incense and silks deal, I don't renew with impending war. 2 ships have arrived full on the outside of the babylon cultural boarders will move in next turn.

INBTW: argggggggg Carthage builds Cap's in Carthage !! We were 4 turns away :(. We get a university with a 114 shield lose. NO palace to switch to :(.

940 AD (9): Declare war on Babylon, Raze Zamua and get 2 more workers. Land 2 full ships on the Babylon coast.

IBNT: Carthage and Korea to an End around toward our spices colonies :(, with settlers !

950 AD (10): Attack and Raze Shuruppak. Move on Ellipi, lose 1 ansar. Attack with 1 more ansar and retreat. More in position to go next turn. Ansars are in the build. Can get tot the ships on the East coast in 2-3 turns. Land on the babs shores in 1 turn. There are 4 ships - 2 will be full and go east, 2 empty and heading west. Every turn there can be 6 more units sent, we can't bulid units that quick but there are enough ships to do that with just 4 caravels.

That is the second wonder that has just missed on my turns :(. Just bad luck I guess. One other thing the Korean and Carthage settler are blocked, not sure what they will do.

Good luck!

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-950AD.zip

got it

Dear Lee

I play with the US-version so I'll patch to 1.21f

Also as far as I know the European PtW-packages had the US - version included 'cause many Europeans had the US-version of Civ3


Rowain

I still don't know the status of at least two other overseas players in my games. Please hold off on patching.

Not much can be done about the Korean or Carthaginian settlers. The spice colonies aren't in danger until a second cultural expansion from where they are so I'll try to hold the line. Nothing to change.

IT Koreans get the settlement and Carthage drops off another pair right around us. No chance to save the spice colonies without war so I back off for now to concentrate on Babylon.

(1)960AD Not much, just moving some troops.

IT Korea has another settlement to our East. This will not do.

(2)970AD Korea does not appear to have military alliances with anyone. But, dammit, we're importing gems from Korea. Well, ok then, I'll try to limit any more landings.

IT A swarm of Babs attack our shore party. We lose our defense, the musket, but repel all other attacks. However, the shore party is in poor shape health wise.

(3)980AD We eliminate some Babs mil but take four warriors to red doing it. Bab cities now defended by muskets. Carthage has taken one of their cities. I might try peace with the Babs and come back home. The warriors are not the best attackers and they defend poorly.

IT Zulu demands Metallurgy...ummm...no. They declare war.

(4)990AD A quick check of diplomacy...Korea has Cav! We can buy it for 1180. Carthage also has it. We can get peace with Babylon and trade Metallurgy for Printing Press and Navigation. I just don't see that Babylon is our most pressing problem. In fact, if we badly hurt Babs, Carthage is the most likely to take advantage right now. I take peace, take the deals, and get ready for a cav war with Carthage.

(5)1000AD Not much

IT Korea builds Magellan's.

(6)1010AD We trade Babs wines + 45 gold for incense and silk. I don't think our spice colonies will last much longer. Rome still wants us to pay for peace...no thanks. Looks like we're even in tech at the moment.

IT A furious Carthage demands that we renew peace. We're not quite ready for war yet, but I can't stomach 20 more turns. With Cav, we have to beat them down now...Our pike on the spices defends twice and promotes.

(7)1020AD I have one city building a bank and the rest on mil.
Carthago Nova takes a few warriors with it, but we raze it. I've
upgraded a bunch of ansars to cav. Next turn we should make some progress.

(8)1030AD We take Lol without loss.

IT Damn, Rome signs on Korea against us and we lose our Gems. Just last turn they wanted 35 gold and 7gpt for peace. Well, now we can punt Korea from our land mass.

(9)1040AD Consolidation turn. We removed many of Carthage's next attackers and are setup vs the Korean city to our East.

IT Most are building Bach's, Carthage is also building Smith's.

(10)1050AD We knock out Manp'o.

Well, that's about it. We are setup nicely, I think to storm Carthage. Just watch for the Roman boats on our South side. I'm sending our ships over there to help. We may want to send the two cannons in Madras down to help bombard them. We've taken one Korean city. If we eliminate the other two we can likely get tech concessions for peace. I think we should push Carthage until Riflemen at least.

Oh, once the second fortress is complete, this turn I think, make sure all other roads through to our territory are knocked out. I'm only talking about the mountain pass between us and Carthage. Fortify in the two places and make them come through us.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1050AD.zip

1050 AD (pre-turn) - OUCH, we don't need more war with Carthage. The war weariness from previous wars hasn't worn off. If this one lasts, then we may be forced to drop back to Monarchy.
We are flat broke - I can't even upgrade a single Ansar. I can't end the phony war with Rome.
What can I do? I give astronomy to Persia to get them to declare war on Rome and the Zulu.
(I) A bad inter-turn as Carthage picks off several stray units.
Rome lands next to one of our cities - I have NO troops in the rear :mad:

1060 AD - A cavalry retreats trying to kill an MI :rolleyes:
It cost a cavalry, but we nail a musket settler pair. I can't bring the workers to safety, so they are disbanded.
The only thing that saves our rear is some Ansars that war waiting to upgrade.

1080 AD (I) - Babylon and Carthage sign a peace treaty.
Unreal, a Carthage cavalry kills a musket on a mountain.

1090 AD - Well, at least some damage on Korea - Kaesong is auto-razed.
I decide to help our friend Persia out - I ship him Metallurgy, and get Economics, wm, $17 and $6/turn.

1100 AD (I) - UNREAL! A Carthage cavalry kills a fortified musket on hill in a fortress with a canon taking a hp off.

1110 AD - This is as good as it will get, so we give it a try. We raze Gades having to kill 3 musketmen. We also nail a settler pair next to the city. The only question is how much of our troops will be able to withdraw.
Korea will talk peace, but won't even give up their world map. That other city will be razed.

1120 AD - !@!@$$. Our ally Persia lands next to our saltpeter colony with a settler!
While cleaning up a four knight landing we get this wonderful news:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LAK-272.jpg
We now having Smith's - not much to us, but we keep it away from the AI.
We nail a Zulu settler, and form a saltpeter colony near the former Korea city. I don't know how long this colony will last.
We razed Calaris and Carthage still won't talk. We are totally spent - this war must end.
War weariness has jumped through the roof - Luxury tax goes to 40%
I sign a peace treaty with Korea - no help on ww.
(I) We lose our army. Carthage destroys the saltpeter colony and got a leader during the process :eek:
The stray knight that I could not kill destroys one of the wine colonies.

1130 AD - I know exactly where the leader is, but we are so wiped out I can go after it.
I ship wines to Korea for Gems and $140.
I don't know Saltpeter colony I am trying to form will survive, so I trade Persia iron for saltpeter, music theory, wm, and $13.
Carthage still won't talk.
(I) Carthage steals a worker stack, and gets them into a newly build lol.

1140 AD - I abandon the potential saltpeter colony. We are too weak to defend it.
Carthage will talk - we get Physics, $83, and $10/turn.
(I) Of course, now Rome wants an even peace treaty - NO!

1150 AD - Thanks to the peace treaty I have a decent number of cavalry healing in Madras.


Summary - Keep the war with Rome the Zulu going. I don't what to break the Persian alliance.

LKendter
Rowain deWolf (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Hotrod0823
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1150AD.zip

Lee, the Ansar's waiting to upgrade were the troops left in the rear to handle the Rome attack. I had used them for a couple of turns to handle Roman landings. Before it got to you, I had upgraded 4 cannon and at least 15 cav so we looked broke, but only after much had happened. Nice job with Carthage, they didn't leave us much choice in the war dept. as they were rapidly expanding South. I think we're going to have this problem until we eliminate them. I can't believe that you also lost a Musket from our fortress. That means Carthage did that twice! And here I thought those forts were well placed.

Got it

Rowain

1150AD (0): I decide to plant a forest near MEcca and two forests near Medina to bring Mecca to 25 shields and Medina to 20 shields (after waste ).

IT: Persia signs peace with Zulu; So we are free to sign peace whenever we want. Alas Zulu and Rome want Money so we stay at War,

1180AD: I use our Units to block our entire East-coast.

IT: PErsia founds Samaria near our western-Fortress


1200AD Magnetism is out and all but Persia and Babs have it .


1210AD: Incense and Silks now cost Wines + WM

Zuklu found Zunguin near the Saltpeter in the NE;

1220AD: Zunguin autorazed :D

Rome completes Bach;

1230AD: All but Persia and Babs have now ToG so I buy it from Korea for 1350gold and hope that X-man or Hammy will learn Magnetism soon.

Carthage cascade-finish Newton and Babylon Shakespeare;

1240AD: Korea settled next to Saltpeter; Straight peace with Zulu;

1250AD: We are still at war with Rome; and Babs and Persia still have neither Magnetism nor ToG; We should be able to buy Magnetism soon;


Good Luck Meldor :)


Rowain

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1250AD.zip)

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor (currently playing)
Hotrod0823 (on deck)
Mystery13

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

I see it.

Since we are at peace with everyone but Rome and have deals in place I have to content myself with peaceful builder turns and stealling tech. I steal Magnetism, Steam, and trade for Democracy and Free Artistry. The only person with extra coal is Carthage. I take it anyway and begin rails. We are still at war with Rome and trade agreements have just expired with Korea. I would sugest hitting them but I would rather have them there than Carthage as their cities are more corrupt over here.

Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1300AD.zip)

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor
Hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Mystery13 (on deck)

Remember, up to 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Got it

1300 AD (0): Renegociate our wines for gems deal with Korea and get gems, dyes and 130 gold for wines. With existing deals on the table with the rest of the civs I will focus on tech and lux. Trade Zulus Steam for WM, 40 gold and 22gpt. All others have it soo may as well give the money to us. With 4 cities on Universities for 5+ turns I will try to avoid wars. I intend to get some units on those Roman islands and raze a couple cities to discuss compensation for peace.

INBTW: a zulu and carthage galleon with frigite escorts approach from the West.

1305 AD (1): Mecca builds cavs starts another. Lots of rail roading.

1310 AD (2): RR continues now have enough gold to steal tech but only Nationalism is known.

1315 AD (3): Steal Nationalism from Persia for 1100 gold. Will open up epsionage as an option and spys, as well as policestations with communism.

1320 aD (4): With 3 more turns on a few universities and only a couple turns on deal with Babylon maybe we can start another offesive against babs.

1325 aD (5): Romans destroy improvements near damasacus more railroads, only road to damascus remains to contect all five cities.

1330 aD (6): Koreans have industrialization and Communism and will not trade. How they got ahead of the entire world by 2 techs is beyond me.

1335 aD (7): Babs want to talk about our lux deal I let it subside for now. They will pay for wines and maybe we can get tech.

Madras builds University starts cavalry. Bagdad university starts cavalry.

Rome continues to pester the Damascus coast

1340 AD (8): Medinas university is complete start a much needed ironclad to take out the Roman frigate. Koreans have a lock on industrialization so I go for tech steal and fail, we lose gems and dyes and are now at war with only 107 gold in the bank. Wake some cavs and will hit there 2 spice cities soon and get the techs :hammer:. Make the Bab lux deals wines for silk, incense and 2gpt.

1345 AD (9): Attack and Raze Chonju, capture 19 gold and 2 workers. 2 settler and 2 muskets die . They attempted to land inbetween our line of protection on the east coast.

1350 AD (10): Attack and raze Paegam. Form spice and Saltpeter colonies will last for now.

Rome still wants gold for peace and Korea won't talk at all. Carthage is in anarchy now and is most likely switching to communism. There are 9 turns on the coal deal and the rails have connected all the cities and a line to the front. Some workers are still "protecting our boarders" they may be building rails but could be moved to work the inner core now that all the cities are online workers can start on improving the rest of the tiles for each city. We are behind in tech by industrialization still only to Korea and Communism to the the others.

good luck Mystery

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1350AD.zip

One more thing: The palace Prebuild is 15 turns at Madras the Military Acedemy is 15 at medina and 20 at Madras. Now may be the time to at least think about preping for ToE. We are 3 techs away and research is off.

got it

Patch reminder:

I have seen from a couple different posts that a 1.21 patch is INCOMPTABILE and cannot be loaded from a 1.14 version of PTW.

LK39 still has a while to go, and has a player who can't patch.
LK41 is almost over, and should not be too big a deal. I probably have just one round left to play.
LK42 has some time to go. I hope all players can avoid patching for a while.

I hope the losers at Infogrames get the patch out for at least the UK soon.
I realize people want to get 1.21 install for the MP fixes.

As soon as a UK version is published, I will upgrade.

I'm in no hurry to patch...and I won't have my turns finished until tomorrow but within the time limit.

Preturn, nothing to change. Some day we have to hurt Rome. We've been "at war" with them since we met and for what? Whatever. They still won't accept peace for less than 100 gold.

(1)1355AD Not much to do. I swap one city to cannon building. We now have one cannon, one ironclad, two cav and one infra.

(2)1360AD Korea will talk peace, but 900 gold won't get us industry so I hold off for a bit.

IT Our caravel wipes out a Korean Galleon. Ha. On the other hand, Persia will settle over our Saltpeter colony next turn.

(3)1365AD Our first ironclad wins but limps home.

(4)1370AD Korea donates two workers to our cause, and in so doing gives us a new great leader! Also, the Persian settler passes by our Saltpeter for the tip of the continent. I accept peace with Korea. We get industry for 1300 (safe steal was 2400). Based on how far away Sci Method appears to be, I will rush Suffrage so that the others may not use it. All other cities set to factories.

(5)1375AD Minor Roman incursion is repelled.

(6)1380AD Romans pay us back for the Korean Galleon. A Caravel sinks our fully healed vet clad! Go figure.

Diplo check shows Carthage with Electricity and the Corporation.
We're starting to fall way behind. Should we do pointy stick research against Carthage before they see Inf???

(7)1385AD Not much going on here. An attack eval. Persia now has three cities on our landmass. Three cities usually equals concessions. However, they currently only have Communism over us and our wines deal lasts 2 more turns. To be revisited...

(8)1390AD Peace with Rome now down to 40 gold. Phooey.

IT Carthage and Korea sign MPP!!! We lose our coal...but get it back for 400 gold.

(9)1395AD Wines to Korea for Dyes plus 120 gold. I then cancel the Saltpeter for wines deal with Persia. We still have our colony in tact so no loss. Persia now has Electricity so pointy stick research to commence. We raze Tyre first. Hamadan is next. I can't get to Samaria this turn.

IT Babylon has a wonderful offer. If we give 55 gpt he'll give us
an MPP and ROP. Wow. Thanks a bunch!...take off.

(10)1400AD We take out Samaria and get another leader. Woohoo! Two on my turns. Perhaps this one we save for a shot at TOE. Oops, the naming of the unit didn't go to well as I had a keyboard mishap. Oh well. The Great Leader is in the fortress West of the Carthaginian city of Thaenae.

All factories come on line during the next leader's turn. Perhaps a
convoy over to Persian territory will net us more tech. I've taken
three cities already so we should get at least one.

The upload folder doesn't appear to be working currently so I've attached a zipped copy below...nope, it's too big even zipped. I'll try the server in a bit.

If the server still isn't working -
email to LKendter@speakeasy.net

I have plenty of playing time this weekend.

Here it is finally...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42_1400AD.zip

1400 AD (pre-turn) - I use up some of our cash and upgrade the home defense to 100% rifleman. With all cities on factories, I go peaceful this round.

1410 AD - Unreal, I spot Carthage ready to drop 2 more cities near us.
Saffah scratches his head, unsure what to do.

1415 AD - I get to cause Rome some pain, as they land a settler near our colonies.
Our worker force continues to grow. The bad news is I also see a Babylon setter behind him. I suspect we will lose either the saltpeter or spice colony soon.
I pay Rome $20 for peace - a lot better then losing the galleon with 3 cavalry that was trying to sneak to one of his island cities that found an ironclad.

1425 AD - I just learned something new about AI peace treaties.
My goodies from peace with Persia dropped after he signs an mpp with Korea.
However, it doesn't work in the reverse as I try signing one with Korea for free.
That doesn't affect the peace rewards from Persia.
I bite the bullet and ship Persia $1290 for peace and electricity. This is still a $500 plus discount.

1430 AD - ARGGGGGGG, the tech bad news continues. Carthage has replaceable parts already. I scratch the token scientist.

1450 AD - We continue to dance with the Babylon settler - for the moment our colonies are safe.


Summary - We are hurting big time for tech. We badly need medicine and SM when it arrives. The only we are going to salvage our tech situation is a ToE rush, and get a lot of tech out of Atomic Theory.

I would save the leader to rush ToE. Don't try to screw around with a palace pre-build. Failure to build ToE isn't worth trying to save the leader for Hoover Dam.

Nobody has medicine yet, so I am going into cash horde mode looking to be ready.

Use the leader to rush ToE.


LKendter
Rowain deWolf (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Hotrod0823
Mystery13

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

We are still playing with the 1.14 patch

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1450AD.zip

That was one very long war with Rome:

390 AD (4): Rome Demands Territory Map and 64 gold. They are far enough away and I refuse. We are now at War with Rome.

Lee any thoughts on what LK43 is going to be? Are you upping to Emperor AW with the Celts or Spain? Those are your last 2 PTW civs correct?

LK43 thoughts are on hold waiting to see what happens with the patch. I really don't want to deal with patch install / uninstall headaches. I have been having enough problems with this laptop.


It will most likely be another deity game, as LK41 is almost over.

Yeah figured as much. The uninstalling, patching, playing repatching cycle is getting old quickly.

Another Diety game: I can understand your not wanting to play at Monarch or regent any longer but no emperor games either?

We have got to find a way to slow Cartage down. Already rubber! That hurts.

a) Got it

b) If LK43 is Deity I'm in


c) @Hotrod: Don't fear Deity too much ;) I remember your fear of Emperor before and now you are just comfortable on it or? Try just 1 or 2 games to get a feeling how far you will be behind till industrial. :) Oh and yes the step Emperor-Deity is bigger as from Regent to Emperor but still nothing to fear for a Sirian-trained player like you. ;)

Rowain

Originally posted by Rowain deWolf
a) Got it

b) If LK43 is Deity I'm in


c) @Hotrod: Don't fear Deity too much ;) I remember your fear of Emperor before and now you are just comfortable on it or? Try just 1 or 2 games to get a feeling how far you will be behind till industrial. :) Oh and yes the step Emperor-Deity is bigger as from Regent to Emperor but still nothing to fear for a Sirian-trained player like you. ;)

Rowain



LK43 is absolutely another deity game. The question is the timing of when I start. I don't feel like starting a new game with the 1.14 patch. However, if it looks like no sign in another week or so...

I put you on the sign-up sheet. There is a chance it will be with 1.14 patch, but we shall see. All I need is the UK patch to come out so that Anarres can upgrade. I absolutely will not chase a world map player away. I have to few in the category. Killer and Meldor are addicted, but 3 players is light.

It may have some MINOR variantism to it, we shall see.

===============================
As for your comment to Hotrod - yes, you MAY be behind big time. However, that is not a definite. In LK41 we were rarely behind at any time by much. We did miss ToE by one turn, but still pulled out the valuable Hoover Dam.

What I find the roughest in deity is watching stacks of 10 warriors walking by a city when you have 3 or 4 units on the map.

The biggest thing I think we deity is the one thing I am still adjusting to - you need to be innovative every game. How often do you have a musketmen protecting longbow attackers in a game? That turned out to be the pivotal moment for LK41.

You need to hawk for any opening. After all the first break with the Germans was realized the Chinese were gassed and Carbon_Copy jumping for the chance to get a couple more cities, and giving us the chance to finally build the fp.


@Hotrod - as for Emperor - well, I still have a couple of ideas up my sleeve. ;)

Nothing much happened; Sci Meth still unknown;

1460 AD : Medicine is out; I buy it from Korea (best deal) for 1199 gold + 38 gpt; Give Medicine + 9 gpt to Rome for Corporation; Medicine to Babs for Espionage; Start Stock Exchanges; Korea has Refining + Steel; Carthage Refining;

1470 AD : The first 2 Stock Exchanges finish increasing our income from 118 gpt to 149 gpt :)

1480 AD: Carthage and Korea have now Sanitation;

1485 AD The next 2 Stock Exchanges and we now make 170 gpt;

1490 AD I start Wall Street in Mecca;

We lose our Coal;


I build IA in MAdras and Mil Academie in Baghdad. Let the IA finish and use the MilAk as a prebuild for Hoover; (= switch it of delay needed). Perhaps we shall buy Sanitation and start some Hospitals till Sci Meth is out.


Good Luck Meldor :)

Rowain


The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1500AD.zip)

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Yeah figured as much. The uninstalling, patching, playing repatching cycle is getting old quickly.

Another Diety game: I can understand your not wanting to play at Monarch or regent any longer but no emperor games either? You aren't completely uninstalling are you?

Yes, I haven't figured out a way to do it otherwise. All the saves remain but it reverts back to 1.01 then I patch up to 1.14 with LK42, HOT2 come around then up to 1.21 in time to play Epic 25, GOTM and Inf2 again.

If there is another way I would love to hear it.

Hotrod

I have the best way...1.21 on my desktop and 1.14 on my laptop.

I need to get me one of those :D!

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Yes, I haven't figured out a way to do it otherwise. All the saves remain but it reverts back to 1.01 then I patch up to 1.14 with LK42, HOT2 come around then up to 1.21 in time to play Epic 25, GOTM and Inf2 again.

If there is another way I would love to hear it.

Hotrod Don't do it. Go in and uninstall the patches each by themselves and reload the first two to get you back up to 1.14. It works perfectly well (if it didn't you would hear Lee screaming in LK39 right now). This only takes about 3 minutes to do. Then when you want to go back to 1.21 just do it.

BTW, I see it and will play after I finish RBMoo1C, tonight.

I figured out my patch woes. By clicking on each of the batch files (1.14 and 1.21 respectivly) that loaded the patches in the first place I can actually delete them. By deleting both I can then click on the 1.14 patch to patch back to 1.14 and play. It is much easier than unistalling the game and reinstalling.

Thanks Meldor :thumbsup:

1510 Wall street completes income goes from 202gpt to 252. The Babys start ToE finally.
1515 Intellegency Agency completes.
1520 Plant spy Korea. Carthage and Persia start ToE.
1525 Buy SciMeth from Korea for 1895g. Start ToE due in 1. ToE gets us AT and Electoronics. MilAcad switched to Hoovers, due in 11.
1530 Use SciMeth and AT to pick up Communism, Sanitation, Steel, Refining, Replacable Parts, 73gpt, Furs and coal. All cities except Bagdad are switched to hospitals.

The rest of the time is spent building hospitals and starting Police Stations.


Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1550AD.zip)

LKendter
Rowain deWolf
Meldor
Hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Mystery13 (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

We are still playing with the 1.14 patch

I got a chance to look at the game - we saved the Tech race problem.
:goodjob: to Meldor.


Our next issue is that we are way behind schedule in destroying civs.
We must destroy Carthage even if it means dropping back into Monarchy. In order to do this I need a setup from the next two players:

1) We have way to many troops wasted defending our coast to stop a city from being built. I need troops to fight Carthage with - that territory will be hopeless corrupt, so it doesn't give much to any civ. We must get to the core of Carthage.

2) The odds of our keeping our colonies next Carthage is **ZERO**. Please recall all units except for 1 musket.

3) We have plenty of work force - please merge our HOME GROWN workers into our cities to increase size ASAP. Between the extra revenue and lower expenses we have a better chance to keep up on tech.

4) No deals with Carthage at all - I don't care what he offers. We have a decent chance of a loss if we don't start fighting soon.

I got it and will try to start tomorrow night...

See your comments Lee and will do my part.

I agree with Lee.
We needed the blockade till now cause there was no chance for a successfull war without Artillery. Now with Arty we can do war quite successfully. The only thing we need to guard are our Wines.

Do we have Oil or Rubber?


Rowain

LK42

1550 AD (0): Consolidate units into 2 mini SoD. Begin moving units except 2 lone muskets from the colonies. Upgrade 4 cannons to artillery. Nothing to do with the cities as Police stations will complete in 4/5 in 4-5 turns. Hoover in 6. Korea has combustion but it is too expensive to steal. Can trade electronics to Korea but he still won't give up combustion but will give 188gpt, and 1700+ gold. Very tempting but trying to ensure Hoover before any deals. Babs will give up oil for electronics. They and Rome are the only civ with oil to spare. Rome will not
trade oil even for electronics. Considering that steel is known by everyone else trade it to Xman for 26 gpt and his 40 gold. Everyone is furious and Korea has MPP with Carthage and the Greeks. Re up our Wines for Korean dyes deal and get an extra 140 gold. Re-up our wines to Babs deal to include oil along with the silks and incense.

1555 AD (1): Join 1 native worker to Medina. 3 others remain. Rome, Korea and Carthage have combustion now. With Hoover due in 5 I will make the trade. Trade Korea Electronics for Combustion, 18 gpt, 1070 gold and Maps. They all are now broke and we have 3826 in the bank with +392 gpt.

IBNT: Babylon demands combustion, because of recent deals in our favor I hand it over. They couldn't give gold or tech for it but could've gotten it from any of the other civs.

1560 AD (2): Upgrade a few Galleons to transports. Join a worker to Mecca.

1565 AD (3): Mecca builds Police station starts artillery. Carthage and Korea are building Hoover. Join worker to Madras. Korea and Korea alone has Mass Production and Flight. Not sure how they can get both so quickly. Steal is at 1000 for immediate on up. He will trade but wants all our gold.

1570 AD (4): 3 More police stations complete start 2 artillery and a destroyer. Babs land a settler and a bowman on our SE tip that was opened up.

1575 AD (5): Mecca builds artillery starts another. Babs found a city SE of Mecca. Hoover will complete next turn in Bagdad. Korea wont trade and they may be pulling ahead so I opt to steal carefully for 2000 gold and get Mass Production :), 1 step closer to tanks. At 100% research we get tanks in 15 turns without loses. Tempting but chances are Korea will have it soon so I leave research at 0%, gaining 454 gpt.

1580 AD (6): Complete artillery in Medina, start Commercial dock. Artillery out of Madras build another. HOOVER at Bagdad start hospital. Change Damascus to Commercial Dock.

1585 AD (7): Korea now has Marines :eek:! They are still the only civ with flight as well. Carthage now has Mass Production.

1590 AD (8): Mecca is producing 1 artillery every turn. Damascus builds commercial dock starts battleship. Madra finishes artillery starts cavalry. Not sure how much longer we will have saltpeter.

1595 AD (9): Medina builds commercial dock start artillery. Baghdad builds hospital start police station. Switch Mecca to Battlefield Medicine. Join the last Native worker to Baghdad.

1600 AD (10): Not much to do.

Mecca is at 80 shield or 1 artillery every turn. Medina is at 74 and growing. Bagdhdad just got its Hospital and a new citizen but is growing fast. Damascus is at 52 shields and Madras is at 58 but currently set to max food because any additional shields would just be wasted, couldn't get to 80, and have it still be growing.

There was no action on the military front but we have 31 cavalry and 13 artillery. Hoover is complete and Battlefield Medicine has started. Research can be turned on to get Tanks but I still think that Korea will get it first then we can steal it. We have oil for at least 10 more turn from Babylon. With all the MPPs and gpt deals out there I didn't chance planting any spies.

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK42-1600AD.zip

1585 AD (7): Korea now has Marines! They are still the only civ with flight as well.

We are in deeper you know what then I even realized. :mad:

I am not sure where we blew it this game; we need to get Korea into multiple wars NOW.
This must occur on Mystery13 pre-turn. Plant a spy in Korea, if that works, perform the cheapest possible action until caught. After that get the rest of his continent fighting Korea. We really need Korea to lose some cities before we can get there, or at least have a good block of land pillaged. We can't afford to fight Korea by land until Carthage is crippled, if not dead.

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Madras finishes artillery starts cavalry.

NO more cavalry. Tanks are close, and 31 cavalry will be enough

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Switch Mecca to Battlefield Medicine.
Screw this wonder - we can't afford the lost turns to build non-military.
It doesn't give us enough benefit to justify losing badly needed military.

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We have almost **LOST** this game. I don't know where exactly it happened, but this is the most scared of a loss I have been since LK26. We have no playroom left. We also have to ban any more deals on Carthage no matter what.

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LKendter (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Meldor
Hotrod0823
Mystery13 (currently playing)


Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

We are still playing with the 1.14 patch

I am been trying to figure out why we are in so far in the hole. I have been comparing vs. the Chinese 5CC. One problem is hospitals appeared much later then the other game, slowing the growth. Another is the lack of workers to hyper grow our cities after hospitals. That game had several dead civs and every city went size 20 the turn after hospitals were built. We have just one dead Civ- India.

It may leave us a bit short of workers, but merge all of the INDIAN workers *ONLY* into our cities.

They have no mother country to complain about a war with, and this will immediately increase production and revenue. We can replace them with Carthage workers to help the land, as we are about to destroy every city in range.

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Send all of our offensive ships to bombard Korea land. This will have 2 positive effects:
1) It will slow production from the destroyed tiles. The best to hit are the long to replace tiles - mountains and hills.
2) It brings Korea closer to Communism. If Korea doesn't go there, he will launch a space ship before we can deal with it.

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We can't afford to wait until my turn - war with Carthage must start NOW. We are out of time. Mystery13 plant a spy in Carthage and hope it fails. We don't have 10 turns to wait.

Revolt to monarchy to deal with war weariness when it becomes a problem - 20 turn peace deal equals lost game

I added all our native workers only. There are Indian workers to add as well. I only built 1 cavalry the rest was artillery. I can't figure out why Korea is getting techs sooo quickly. No one else has flight or marines.

Based on you privious post I did not make any deals with Carthage but also did not press them into war. Tanks have to be coming soon and we have no native oil.

Wow, lots to do and I'm going to take my time doing it just to make sure I'm doing it right. I'll give an update if anything cool happens.

Why we are in danger to lose?

Simple cause after the death of India ther have been only 2 Civs on a big continent. Carthage and us. We with our limit and one of the best AI (industrial, + 3 defence NuMerc). I really can't think that we had any chance to bring war to Hannibal sooner. If we had started on the other continent (instead of Rome for example) you can be sure that there would be now 3 dead Civ and a second continent in war.

We are only in danger cause we aim for a Conquest-win. Space or Diplo would still be winable .

but this is the most scared of a loss I have been since ..


I think I have heard this from you before ;)


Rowain

Carthage and the pyramids = tough neighbor

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Carthage and the pyramids = tough neighbor

Add jungle and mountains = big hairry neighbor.

Some of the problem comes from not taking Babylon out when we might have as well. It seems we spent to much time trying to protect a few resources and some bare ground.

Originally posted by meldor

Some of the problem comes from not taking Babylon out when we might have as well. It seems we spent to much time trying to protect a few resources and some bare ground.



I must agree - we spend way to much effort trying to protect our colonies. I think Babylon could have been dead if it wasn't for that.

I think we sent people over to Babylon a couple of times, but each time Carthage did something to change our plans.

Ok, here's my preturn. I hope this is what you were looking for Lee.

I merge four Indian workers. The others had moved this turn. I think there are three more to merge.

Here we go pissing off Korea. We successfully plant a spy. Then, we sabotage production in Seoul. We expose a Korean spy! We steal flight!!! Finally, attempting to sabotage production in another city we piss off Korea. Ok, so Rome and Babylon want flight to declare war on Korea. Zulu want wines and Combustion. So, the final tally for World War is about 2300 spent, but we also get flight in the deal. Not bad.
Next, piss off Carthage. Plant a spy and fail! They declare war immediately. That was easier.

So, knocking out the Korean city of Sarivon, we find that Persia has an MPP with Korea. So, at war with them as well.

Then, we go after the Carthage city of Tacape. Zulu has an MPP with Carthage and declare on us! Did I just screw our rep with the wines deal??? Hmmm, Babylon will still deal with us in gpt so perhaps not. After all, I signed Zulu to the alliance against Korea, the deal shouldn't hurt us.

Anyway, back to Tacape. We yellow line 4!!! Infantry in this little city! Our cav head in. We lose 2 cav, and 3 retreat...but 4 win and we take the first city. All others are poised to take out Thaenae next turn.

I make a few city changes. Damascus from Battleship to Destroyer so we get it next turn. Mecca, Madras and Medina to Infantry to cover our butts. Lee, are you sure 31 cav will be enough???

Rest of my turns to follow. Any comments? Perhaps some weed on my part? Hit me now or forever hold your peace:)

Since you asked, I did see one peice of weed. Not checking the MPP status before signing deals. We could have signed an MPP with the Zulu, le