QSC-C2r - Hannabaline & the 300 Spartans - Regent [Archive]

zenga

Feb 12, 2003, 11:13 AM

Zenga Turns 1 - 30

4000BC(1)

With desert and flood plain so close and lying on bonus grass consider starting position. Also looks like a bonus or lux resource is peeking out of the fog. Move worker to hill E for a better view. Cow to SE of start, jungle seen to S, forests to E, lots of bonus grass by river. Decide to move settler to rejoin worker on hill E.

Quick check of F10.

3950BC(2)

Carthage founded on hill, start warrior. Worker S to cow.

Research set to Pottery at 100%, due in 10.

3900BC(3)

Worker starts irrigation on cow.

3850BC(4)

3800BC(5)

Worker finishes irrigating, starts road.

3750BC(6)

3700BC(7)

Carthage builds warrior, start worker. Worker finishes road and moves NE to bonus grass next to cow. Warrior moves W.

3650BC(8)

Warrior moves W to hill and sees elephants to his N that would have been in range of original start position. Worker starts mine.

3600BC(9)

Warrior S, climbs mountain for better view.

3550BC(10)

Warrior W to forest.

Research down to 30%, Pottery in 1.

Zenga 3550BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc3550.sav)

3500BC(11)

Pottery researched, start The Wheel at 100% (due in 16).

Carthage builds worker, start warrior.

Worker2 goes NE to bonus grass. Worker1 finishes mine and starts road. Warrior W to plains.

3450BC(12)

Worker2 starts mine. Warrior W and faces a wall of jungle.

3400BC(13)

Worker1 finishes road and moves NE to next bonus grass. Warrior W reaches coastline.

3350BC(14)

Carthage builds warrior, start settler. Warrior2 goes N to hill.

Warrior1 goes S. Worker 1 starts mine.

3300BC(15)

Warrior1 S. Warrior 2 N. Worker2 finishes mine start road.

3250BC(16)

Warrior1 SE. Warrior1 W to mountain, revealing more ivory. Area seems not too bad, especially production wise, so far but not too many extra food resources. Will use worker2 as a pathfinder to the E once the road is finished.

3200BC(17)

Warrior 1 S to coastal mountain. Warrior2 N. Worker1 finishes mine, start road. Worker2 finishes road and moves NE to forest.

3150BC(18)

Carthage grows to size 3, lux tax to 10%.

Swap Carthage to granary. Worker2 starts forest chop. Warrior2 N. Warrior1 S to hill and spies light blue borders.

3100BC(19)

American scout comes into view near Carthage. Abe is cautious and has Warrior Code (WC) and Bronze Working (BW) but no Alphabet.

Warrior1 SE towards America. Warrior2 E and bumps into a barb worker. Worker1 finishes road and crosses the river to the bonus grass SW of Carthage.

Trade Abe Alphabet for WC and 17g (all he had). With The Wheel due in 4 this can hopefully get us towards a horse army.

3050BC(20)

Warrior1 SE to mountain near America, they have incense. Warrior2 E captures barb worker spotting furs at the same time. Slave worker makes wrong turn SW.

Zenga 3050BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc3050.sav)

3000BC(21)

Warr1 SE. Warr2 E. Slave starts road. MM for shields for 2 turns, granary will complete in 2 when forest is cleared.

Sci down to 70%, Wheel in 2 still.

2950BC(22)

In the 'Most Advanced Nations' list we are seen as puny! The Americans are great, but we have a stronger military - 2 warriors!

Warr1 NE to mount. Warr2 E to hill on E coast.

Sci down again to 50%, Wheel in 1. What's the bet Abe gets it at the same time as us?

2900BC(23)

Wheel researched (2 horses close by us, 1 near Abe seen), start Writing at 80% (due in 23).

Carthage builds granary, start settler.

Warr1 SE. Warr2 SE along coast. Worker1 finished chop, start road.

Decide not to trade Wheel yet.

2850BC(24)

Warr1 E. Warr2 S, spots another barb worker near horse (are they always near resources?). Slave finishes road, moves N to fur.

Carthage size 4, lux tax up to 20%. Sci down to 70%.

2800BC(25)

Warr1 NE to hill. Warr2 SE to mount. Worker2 NW towards ivory. Worker1 SE to forest near horse. Slave starts road on fur.

2750BC(26)

Warr1 S. Warr2 SE. Worker1 starts road. Worker2 starts road.

Dark green border spotted up near slave, probably the Aztecs.

2710BC(27)

Carthage builds settler, start warrior (was going to maybe try another settler but the thought of a jag strolling into an undefended capital decided for me). Settler heading 3 tiles NW for horses (and ivory after expansion).

Warr1 S. Warr2 SW capturing slave. Slave2 moves to horse.

Lux back down to 10%.

2670BC(28)

Warr1 S. Warr2 NE heading for Carthage. Worker2 finishes road, moves to hill NW for road to 2nd city. Slave2 starts road on horses.

2630BC(29)

Carthage builds warrior, start settler. Warr3 heads after settler NW along road. Settler in place for founding town.

Warr2 nearly back at Carthage for MP. Warr1 S. Worker2 starts road on hill. Worker1 finishes forest road and moves NE to bonus grass of future city site - if we can settle quickly enough!

2590BC(30)

Utica founded, start warrior.

Warr1 S sees spices and southern coast? Warr2 MP in Carthage. Warr3 NW to mount NE of Utica.

Worker1 starts road.

Sci up to 80%, Writing in 12.

Zenga 2590BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc2590.sav)

Nightfang

Feb 12, 2003, 07:26 PM

4000BC
CTRL-P to get settings like I want them. =P
Send worker southeast.
Establish Carthage.
Set production to warrior (5 turns)
Tech 20%, set to drive for Writing then Literature.

3950BC
Worker irrigates.

3850BC
Worker finishes irrigating, starts road.

3750BC
Warrior(W1) complete in Carthage, start another one (5 turns).
W1 west to hill.
Worker finishes road, southeast to cow.

3700BC
W1 northwest, spots all the ivory.
Worker irrigates cow.

3650BC
W1 north to hilltop.

3600BC
Worker finishes irrigating, start road.
W1 northwest to mountain.

3550BC
W1 north to mountain.

-----10 turns-----

3500BC
Warrior(W2) complete in Carthage, start Barracks.
Culture borders expand.
W2 south.
Worker finished with road, use CTRL-R to direct him to build road to nearest ivory.
W1 northwest.

3450BC
W2 south.
W1 northwest, spots a border.

3400BC
W1 north.
W2 south.

3350BC
An iriquois scout has come into view near W1.
W1 north, sees Aztec worker.
W2 south.

Hiawatha (Cautious) offers Pottery for Masonry. We accept, and he turns Polite. We offer Alphabet and he offers Ceremonial Burial and 10gp, which we accept.

3300BC
Switch Carthage from Barracks to Granary.
An American scout has appeared near W2.
W2 south.
W1 northwest.

Abe (Cautious) offers Bronze Working for Alphabet, which we accept, but he stays Cautious. He has no other techs to trade, so we say goodbye.

Monte (Polite) offers Warrior Code for Alphabet and 40gp, which we accept. We then offer Masonry and get back our 40gp.

3250BC
W2 southeast.
W1 northwest.

3200BC
W2 west.
W1 northwest.
Ivory is hooked up. Good, Carthage goes to size 3 next turn.

3150BC
W2 west.
W1 northwest.
Worker mines the ivory.
Carthage size 3, no tax adjustments needed.
Move citizen off irrigated shield grass onto Ivory. I did this to slow down pop growth while the Granary nears completion. At current rate, city would become size 4 and the granary would finish at the same time, still making us wait for it to fill up. This way, it will complete, then I can let it grow like crazy.

3100BC
W2 west.
W1 northwest.

3050BC
W2 west.
W1 northwest.

-----20 turns-----

3000BC
W1 west.
Move citizen back from ivory to irrigated shield grass. Granary in 3, growth in 5. :D
Worker southeast, irrgate desert.
W2 northwest.

Herodatus - Largest Nations
1. Aztecs
2. Iriquois
3. Greeks
4. Germans
5. Chinese
6. Americans
7. Persians
8. Carthiginians

2950BC
W2 northwest.
W1 northwest.

2900BC
Worker south to forest.
W2 north.
W1 northwest.

2850BC
Granary completes in Carthage. Start settler.
Worker to clear forest.
W1 northwest.
W2 northwest.

2800BC
W1 northwest.
W2 northwest.

2750BC
W2 north.
W1 northeast.
Increase Luxuries to 10% to make the 4 citizens in Carthage feel better.

2710BC
W2 north.
W1 southwest.

2670BC
W2 north.
W1 southwest.

2630BC
Settler completes, start Spartan Hoplite.
Settler northwest along road, then north to ivory.
Worker has forest cleared, start mining.
W2 north.
W1 southwest.

2590BC
Settler northeast, seems Aztecs are expanding my way. =/
W2 north.
W1 east.
Luxuries back to 0%.

-----30 turns-----

3550BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Nightfang_QSC_C2r_bc3550.sav)
3050BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Nightfang_QSC_C2r_bc3050.sav)
2590BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Nightfang_QSC_C2r_bc2590.sav)

zagnut

Feb 12, 2003, 11:38 PM

QSC -C2r TimeLine

4000 – I move my settler one space south to avoid the desert squares in my initial build. The settler moves one space SE and sees cow, to which he will head next turn. The land looks promising, but I feel that the destiny of my people is with the sea. Oh, how I long to see the ocean again.

3950 – Carthage is founded and from the highest rooftop I can see the wonderful ocean, savior of my civilization, to the SE. Set science at 90% - Pottery in 10 turns. Build Warrior.

3900 – Worker irrigating cow square.

3800 – Irrigation complete. Worker building road.

3750 – Warrior completed. He is given instructions by my generals to head west to the top of the mountain and determine if the lands in that direction are suitable for a military factory.

3700 – Worker completes road to cow and heads across river to road and mine bonus square. Warrior sees elephant to the NW of Carthage and sends message back to capital by speeding guinea pig. We are all happy with his discovery.

3650 – Worker building road. Science reduced to 80% - Pottery in 3 turns. Carthage at 2 population.

3600 – Warrior on mountain to WSW sees furs in forest to W.

3550 – Second Warrior built and sent North. Pottery in one turn. Set science to 60%. Worker completes road and starts on mine. Elect to build Settler, but will switch to Granary next turn when Pottery is discovered.

3500 – Discover Pottery, Research Writing – Science set to 80%. My wise men encourage me to place all of my people’s knowledge in a great library which they call the Great Library – how novel.
Warrior 2, heading north, discovers second elephant.

3450 – From mountain top Warrior 2 sees third elephant. Sends word back to capital by carrier pigeon that first settler should head north. The soothsayers and I agree.

3400 – Worker completes mine and heads to bonus square just north of Carthage to road and mine.

3350 – Warrior 1 discovers ocean to the west.

3250 – Luxury slider set to 10% to stop disorder in Carthage. I forgot to anticipate that even though my soothsayers told me the dissident Firaxis was causing trouble in the city center.
From a mountaintop Warrior 1 spots a blue civ. Warrior 2 heading east. Worker building mine.

3200 – Warrior 2 sees barb worker on hilltop. Science slider set to 70%.

3150 – Lincoln contacts Warrior 1 and wants to trade Warrior Code for my Alphabet. But my Warrior is a crafty fellow. He already knows he has a code to follow and so bargains for Bronze Working and 8 gold instead. Lincoln agrees. Now the Spartan Hoplite is available to my people.
Warrior 2 heads north to try and capture the barb worker.

3100 – At this point I am sorely tempted to switch production in Carthage to Barracks and make that my military city. It has good shield production and I don’t see that many other great spots for a shield producing city. The flood plains to the north could be a good location for a city to produce settlers. But in the end I decide to stick to my original plan and make Carthage a settler factory. Wish I had Scouts to explore the territory.
Warrior 2 captures barb worker. Sends him back to Carthage with a message that more ocean and a fertile river delta lie to the east. Worker heads toward elephants to build road to connect to another city.

3050 – Warrior 1 heading east along northerly boundary of American lands.

2950 – Warriors still exploring. Worker completes road and moves onto elephant square. Granary completed and production switched to Settlers. Settler in 4 turns.

2900 – Carthage again goes into unrest. I have to remember to anticipate this!! Set luxuries at 20%. Science still at 70%. Writing in 15 turns. Warrior 2, to east, sees another barb worker. Sets off in pursuit.

2800 – An Iroquois Warrior appears north of Carthage near my Workers. They hail him, give him some beef jerky and bargain for the exchange of knowledge. He wants Alphabet and is willing to give Ceremonial Burial and all his gold (1). My Workers propose Warrior Code instead and he gives it, plus his one gold. They then bargain for the Wheel but he is not rolling in that direction. He finally agrees to give Ceremonial Burial to us for 25 gold. I pat my Workers on the head for a good trade.
Meanwhile, I send an emissary to Lincoln to trade for the Wheel, but he will have none of it.
Worker 2 captures another barb worker. The 2 Workers north of Carthage retreat one square toward capital in order to escape the clutches of the Iroquois Warrior.

2750 – 2 Workers return to road building toward the flood plain. The second captured barb worker is returning to Carthage to build a road to the east for a new city. Warrior 1 returning to Carthage to accompany Settler to flood plains.

2710 – First Settler built in Carthage. Sent to west to secure furs and many bonus squares, and to prevent their seizure by the Americans.

2630 – Warrior 1 heading west to join up with first Settler. Warrior 2 heading north to explore lands around flood plain. Barb Worker building road to east. Luxuries set to 10%.

2590 – 2 other Workers building road to west.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc3550.sav http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc3050.sav http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc2590.sav

Skyfish

Feb 13, 2003, 03:27 AM

Main idea : I run a "Science Gambit" (TM)
With the great techs neoCarthage gets at the start and seeing that Pottery is so cheap, I deduct that the other civs already have Pottery and I run the risk to not research it but go for the advanced tech of Mathematics, hoping I can trade for the other smaller techs. I will push the gambit even further and go for Currency after that :eek:
I will also be generous with Techs in order to speed up the research on our continent.
__________________

4000bc : Move worker on hill to check around, see the Ivory, decide to move Settler on Forest SW to gain 1 Bonus grassland and keep 1 Ivory.
3950bc : NeoCarthage founded, set to warrior, min science on Mathematics, worker moved back to Bonus Grassland
3750bc : Warrior -> Warrior Bonus grassland mined starting road.
3650bc : scouting West/Southwest Worker now mining 2nd bonus grassland.
3500bc : Warrior -> Settler
3450bc : because of expansion, interesting choice on MM : by using the cow I get the settler in 7 turns and expansion in 7 turns which is perfect.
I decide to road to the cow and will then change the MM once my settler is produced.
3400bc : Warrior 1 reaches coastline.
3350bc : Worker completes road to mined bonus grassland
3250bc : Warrior 1 and 2 are now just going North and South through Mountain paths.
3200bc : Meet American Scout (Cautious), they have Pottery, WC and BW but can not get a 2 for 1 deal, maybe I can wait a bit more since I don't need the granary right now..
Settler now due in 2, Mathematics in 15, worker set to irrigate the cow. I can see a dark green border up north, see the Light blue border of America.
3100bc : Settler produced switch to Rax as prebuild for Granny,
3050bc : worker building road towards East and location of new city, settler also moving east.
ibt : Montezuma makes contact and offers WC for Masonry, let's negotiate something else : what about Masonry + Alphabet for CB, WC, BW + 35 gold (all their money) ?
"our forces outnumber the Aztecs" we only got 2 warriors !!!!!!!! Aztecs are now polite, go to America : Pottery + 17g (all their money) for Alphabet.
America still cautious.
3000bc : switch from Rax to granny
ibt : "Most powerful nations" NeoCarthage ! Aztecs and Americans. Good that our competitors are close by...
2900bc : See my first Barbarian worker ! what the hell are they doing ? can we capture them ? Carthage founded East on river / coast tile.
ibt : Palace extension
2850bc : NeoCarthage grows and granary due in 12 and pop 3 in 5 turns, Math in 6 turns, road to Carthage completed.
2750bc : See a purple border in N/NW. Americans have the Wheel
ibt : Iros make contact want Alphabet + 4g for the Wheel, OK all other civs have Alphabet anyway...
2710bc : Carthage completes Warrior -> Barracks.
2630bc : We capture Barb worker with Carth warrior, Math due in 1 turn, lux set to 10% to avoid riot in NeoCarth next turn and because we will go to min. science next turn.
ibt : Mathematics discovered, Research set to Currency at min level.
2590bc : NeoCarth will grow in 4 and build granny in 4, so I whip it (for 17 shields).
Complete tech parity plus I am up on Mathematics. Can see Horses within Carthage.
As far as the continent is concerned, I just need to check if there is any other civs South of America or North of Iros.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish_QSC_C2r_bc3550.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish_QSC_C2r_bc3050.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish_QSC_C2r_bc2590.SAV

Singularity

Feb 13, 2003, 12:54 PM

4000BC: Move settler SW to forest tile. Worker start mine on shielded grass at start tile.

3950BC: Settle Carthage(C). Start researching Pottery,
science slider set to 90%. Discover Ivory to NW and Cattle
on grass to SE - within C future borders. Start warrior.

3850BC: Worker start road on mined grasstile.

3750BC: Warrior produced at Carthage. New warrior started. Road finished at grasstile. Worker moved to cattletile just two tiles SE. Warrior start exploring SW.

3650: Second lux resource, fur, discovered 5 tiles SW of C. Worker start irrigating Cattletile.

3550: Warrior finished at C. Worker start road on irrigated cattletile. Warrior climb hill NW of C. Second Ivory tile discovered to NW, 3 tiles away. Save made.

3500: Pottery researched. Started researching writing, science slider at 10%. Warriors to SW, now S. Discovers foreign borders 8-9 tiles S of C.

3450: Foreign civ is Americans. Contact established, no trade made as we want to keep Alphabet for ourselves a while longer. Production at C. Changed to Settler. Road at cattle finished. C. Grows to 2, expand in 5 turns, settler finished in 6. Worker moved to shielded grass W of C.

3400BC: Ocean discovered a few tiles W of American borders. Worker set to mine grasstile.

3350BC: Move warrior to the S due E, to find coastline E of American territory.

3300BC: Warrior to N discovers a barbarian worker! on hill 7 tiles NW of C.

3250BC: Mine finished on Grasstile. Worker start Roadwork on that tile.

3200BC: Barbarian worker captured :) Ocean discoverd a few tiles E of American territory. Will now try to contain their expansion by building to south of C. Worker moved unescorted SW towards C.

3150BC: Settler completed. Move settler to fur SW of C. Started prod of Settler at C. Traded 8G and Bronze for Alph. With America. He's tighter than usual... Move warrior at S towards NW at future city at the fur tile.

3100BC: Start Road at Flood plains N of C.

3050BC: Save made

3000BC: Rich lands to the NW with two major rivers running NE and E-NE. 10-11 tiles of fertile land on this corner of the continent. Start to ponder if containing americans is the right thing to do... Still majorly unexplored areas NW of C.

3000BC: Machiavelli states that we, the Glorious Carthaginians are the most powerful nation of the world. We learn that the other Civs in this game is in order of greatness; Americans, Aztecs, Iroquois, Greeks, Germans, Chinese and the forgotten Persians :). Worker start Road at Ebony N of C.

2950BC: Discovered second barbarian worker NE of C. Barbarian worker joins our own at ebony tile.

2900BC: Utica(U) founded at fur tile, 5 tiles SW of C. Ebony brought to C. Workers start to link U to C, with road at
Hills S of C. Warrior prod start at U.

2850BC: Palace expands. Warrior fortifies on Utica. Warrior captures Barb worker NE of C.

2800BC: Land NE of C. completely explored. Warrior set to automove to unknown lands 8 tiles N of C. 2. barb worker automoves to C. Warrior at U set to go to C to guard our unprotected capitol.

2750 New border appear in the explored lands 7 tiles N of C. Must claim the twin rivers land soon!

2670: Warrior produced at U. Set him to explore W of U. Settler completed in C Set to go to tile NE of second Ivorytile. Still not found a single Hut. Second warrior started at U. Third settler started at C Road finished at grasstile 2 tiles SW of C.

2590: Settler arrives at destination tile. Workers moved to grasstile 2 tiles NE of U, 2. barb worker joins the two others at this tile. Final save made for the first 30 rounds. First warrior reached hill one tile E of the foreign border to the north. Still no contact. 13 turns to third settler is complete at C. 3 turns to U grows and 4. warrior is complete. Still no time to start building Spartan Hoplites. Need warriors to cover my expansion and exploring. Warrior previously set to guard C moves toward second settler at future city location. Ponder to poprush granary at C instead of finishing 3. settler...

----

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_3550_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_3050_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_2590_BC.SAV

---

BTW Cracker, is it okay to post screens?
---
Ok, here is my growing empire at 2590. Love that start location:)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/SinguCarth2590BC.JPG

cracker

Feb 13, 2003, 03:09 PM

Sure screenies are OK.

Try to crop them slightly and resize them down to 80% etc in order to get the pixel width down to below 800 pixels (preferrably 600) because that works better in the forum lists withouth distorting the right hand margin too much.

I think it is better to use the upload feature and then use the IMG tag to embed images because that gives you lots of flexibility

stwils

Feb 13, 2003, 04:14 PM

I messed up a little numbering the turns so just look at the save dates and the log without worrying about the Turn numbers.

Turn #1
Carthage founded on the spot
Worker moves south to bonus spot

Turn#2 3950bc
Start researching Pottery
Worker mines bonus grass

Turn#3 3900bc
nothing

Turn#4 3850bc
set science to 60%

Turn#5 3800bc
Worker starts road

Turn#6 3750bc
Warrior produced/ set for another
Warrior moves north

Turn#7 3700bc
Worker moves to cow
Warrior moves norht west. Sees lots of ivory

Turn#8 3650bc
Warrior moves west
Worker mines cow

Turn#9 3600bc
Warrior moves west. So far sees nothing amazing

Turn#10 3550 bc
Carthage gets Warrior/ set to worker
both warriors move and see nothing...

Border expands
Turn#11 3450bc
Worker builds road
Warriors move but still nothing to behold

Turn#12 3400bc
Warrior moves west. Sees water
Other warrior goes north and sees nothing

Turn#13 3359bc
We get Worker/set to Settler
New worker moves toward ivory
Warrior peers through jungle at the coast on the west

Turn#14 3300bc
worker builds road to ivory/other worker joins him
Warriors still don't find anything worth reporting

Turn #15 3250bc
nothing big to report

Turn #16 3200bc
We get Pottery/ set to Writing
both workers road on ivory
warriors move but nothing big to see yet

Turn#17 3150
Warrior moves north. Spots a border. (ah. Somebody else is here.)
workers complete road to ivory and that is good news

Turn#18 3100bc
worker mines ivory
warrior moves closer to the blue bordered civ

3050bc
Warrior steps over the border! They are Aztecs!
Workers move to hill
Other warrior sees an aqua border to the southwest

3100bc
We trade Masonry for Ceremonial Buriel with Montezuma
We then trade Alphabet for Bronze Working with him
Workers mine the hill
Warrior moves nearer the aqua border. (who is inside it?)

3000bc
We move away from Aztecs

2950
Report comes that the Aztecs are leading followed by Iroquois. Carthage is 3rd.
Warrior discovers the Americans
(We will produce Settler next turn. Where to send him????)

2900bc
We trade Alphabet for Warrior Code with Lincoln
Workers now road hill

2850bc
Warriors move hoping to find a good place for the settler

2800bc
We get settler/ set to Spartan Hoplite!
Moved settler - (*^(*& hit wrong arrow. He did not go where I wanted him to.
Warrior moves and sees barb worker

2750bc
We capture the barb worker (What do you do with a captured barb worker outside a city?)
I moved him!
Settler moves looking for a good place to build

2710bc
Barb worker irrigates.
Move settler in that direction

2630bc
Warrior near Americans on coast wonders what to do. He moves south
Settler moves toward the river and the coast in the east

2670bc
Workers mine
settler moves east
warrior goes along east coast near Americans

2630bc
Settler is by river

2590bc
Utica founded near furs
Both warriors move

stwils

Feb 13, 2003, 04:15 PM

I messed up naming the saves. Sorry. Will work on getting that straight.

stwils

stwils

Feb 13, 2003, 04:34 PM

I can't seem to rename them inside the game. Will try to attach my name somehow on the saves.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hannibaline_of_the_Carthaginians,_3550_BC2.SAV

stwils 3550bc

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hannibaline_of_the_Carthaginians,_3050_BC1.SAV

stwils 3050bc

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hannibaline_of_the_Carthaginians,_2590_BC.SAV

stwils 2590

Cracker, I am so sorry I messed up. I just forgot to name the game as such when I saved the game, and I can't seem to go back in a rename them. I should have remembered how I did this from the last time I played a QSC.

stwils

stwils

Feb 13, 2003, 04:44 PM

I realize the way I have sent my saves is impossible to tell whose they are. I will try to send them as attachments.

stwils 3550bc

stwils

Feb 13, 2003, 04:45 PM

and the next:

stwils 3050bc

stwils

Feb 13, 2003, 04:47 PM

And the 3rd.

stwils

Feb 13, 2003, 04:49 PM

Sorry I fouled things up so. Will not happen again.

stwils:o :o :o :o

cracker

Feb 13, 2003, 07:03 PM

stwils,

Don't worry about it; things will get easy for you with time. ;)

The naming convention is just to try an prevent everyone from trying to use the same exact filenames because that might create a nightmare. The key step is for you to rename the save files after they are saved if that is a last resort. You need your name and the game_date_year in the save file name as a minimum in order to keep from accidently overwriting your own files or conflicting with someone elses name.

Good luck,

cracker

stwils

Feb 13, 2003, 07:17 PM

Thanks, Cracker, for being so tolerant of my bungling.:)

So let's see if I get this right. When I save a game (as I am playing) do I need to give it the new name there in the game itself? (You know, stwils_QSC etc. instead of Elizabeth of the English or whatever.) So then when I browse for the upload, it will pick up this name?

How on earth have I forgotten how to do this??:(

I will say, that as I was playing today, the phone kept ringing, and I saved a lot in order to answer the phone. Then when I went back in, I could not rename the saves.

stwils

Singularity

Feb 13, 2003, 08:39 PM

Do you know how to rename a file in windows?

I will show the steps briefly:

- Open up the Harddrive you installed the game on, for instance C drive.

- Go to the folder named Program Files , then to the folder Infogram Interactives. Open Civilization III folder, then Saves folder. Now you should have the root saves under a folder named autosave. Rename the saves by clicking directly on the filename twice slowly, dont doublecklick as this will open the file. You want to correct to stwils_QSC_C2r_XXXXBC.sav.

To avoid sweating through the folders you can just look at the name of your old C2r saves and keep the XXXXBC date when you make the save while playing the game.

mcdan

Feb 13, 2003, 11:59 PM

Hoping to get this save to work:

preturn: date 4000 BC
SInce depostion wll go for the food points and settle right there - look forward to what others do.
worker to build road to cattle - givews us 3 Food, 1 Sh, and 1 G - vs. the Ivory. (I did not reduce the #'s due to despotism but know that food is our priority now.
Set for Bronze workings
check slider - keep as is
other civs of course unknown but not in top 5 citiies - all at one

Turn one: 3900- build with worker to cattle

Turn Two: 3850 (?)

14 g, only +2 pt, BW in 29 turns, no contacts
move worker to continnue road, warrior in 1 more turn]

Turn Three: 3750 BC
Carthage has city name buy the way -had has a warrior. He is now set for settler.
Warrior moves N to explore leaving town abandoned

Turn Four: 3650 BC

worker completes road to cattle, now is in first tier tiles mining boncus grassland.

Turn 5: 3650 B

24 G in pot
slider looks good
warrior discoveres 3 elephants and moves NW

Turn 6: 3550 BC due to land posiotion- warrior heads W to explore

chekc slider OK
histrograph and world rankings - we are not there yet !

mcdan

Feb 14, 2003, 12:02 AM

upload issues - :(

see stwills you are not alone in this!

will work more and get this posted along with other played 20 turns.

mcdan

Feb 14, 2003, 01:13 PM

here's first save:

mcdan

Feb 14, 2003, 01:53 PM

Must apologize and resign from game. I think I now know why the uploads did not work - as I reach 2590 and get the Hoplite Spartan - game shuts off and save is lost. Says that I have uploaded H.S. incorrectly. No need to post all my turns if already my game is over. I did try and return to previous turns and restart - thinking that I could remove hoplite but - a) cannot remove him and "fix " him and b) game changes so that would be against the rules.

:cringe: :cry: :sad:

Many Thanks Cracker for setting up this game and I appreciate being included. Apologize again.

mcdan

zenga

Feb 14, 2003, 02:29 PM

@mcdan

I would try and re-install the Spartan hoplite folder. I had the same problem when I tried to replay part of the previous 'Irritated Mao' game after deleting the units needed for the save to work. After re-installing it worked fine.

The easiest way for me is to select all the contents of the zip file and extract to desktop. Then it's just a case of cut and paste the created folder into the Civilization III\Art\Units folder.

Hope this helps, if not you should PM cracker and maybe he can give you some better advice.

Good luck!

zenga

cracker

Feb 14, 2003, 02:37 PM

McDan, you should be able to fix the game easily if you can check to make sure the Spartan Hoplite is installed properly.

This is something that should be fairly straightforward and you need to master the trick because it will be fairly common practice in the comming months.

If the Spartan Hoplite is installed properly you will have a folder in your Civilization III/Art/units/ folder taht will be named "Spartan Hoplite". Inside that folder there should be six files one of which will be named "Spartan Hoplite.INI"

Your game is not broken, it just sounds like the spark plug wires are just miswired and we can fix that easily.

stwils

Feb 14, 2003, 03:55 PM

mcdan, how awful to do 30 turns and have the thing crash.

I am building a Spartan Hoplite. I am wondering if the same thing will happen to me once he appears.

We are all here and wanting to help. But replaying 30 turns will be taxing, I know.

Let us know how we can help.

stwils:love:

cracker

Feb 15, 2003, 06:25 PM

Here is the summary data table for 2590bc showing all players in both the emperor and regent groups.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/QSC_C2table2950bc.gif

The tech cost/value is different from Regent to Emperor, and you can see the Regent tech values displayed on the right hand side of the table in the tech section.

The tech costs are higher on Emperor and this means that the value of technolgy is greater because it costs more to obtain.

What dominates the difference between the two groups is that the Regent group is lagging behind almost across the board because early contacts are harder to come by. If you look at the Emperor game section, virtually every player has made contact with 4 neighbors while in the regent game the AI's have no early added units to help increase the chances of contacts. Contacts effect the direct cost of technology as well as the relative costs of traded techs and maps. Having fewer early contacts slows down the progress of the game even though technogly has a cheeper base cost.

Singularity

Feb 15, 2003, 11:42 PM

31. turn - 2550BC: Leptis Magna founded. Changed prod at C to granary. Warrior at NE discovers Aztec city. No envoy yet. Two workers remain at NE of U to finish roads. Last worker goes to connect last tile SW of LM. Warrior SW of LM makes a short detour to scout mountains NW of LM before it goes to fortify in LM. LM produces Worker.

32. turn - 2510BC:

33. turn - 2470BC: Before this turn started, Aztecs contacted me. I gave them alph.+pott.+11G and got ceremonial b+warrior code+wheel+1 aztec worker. Eat that Abe :) Warrior just W of LM discovers lush lands with two rivers w/many floodplains and a goldmine in one of the surrounding mountains. Aztec worker joins our barbaric worker to connect LM to C and irrigate the ivory there. Finished connecting U to C. Horses discovered 3 tiles W of C, and 7 tiles E of C.

34. turn - 2430BC: Met an Iroquois scout NW of C. Gave him alph, got 41 gold. Checked my three neighbours citycount in the diploscreen. America still only has its capitol, while the two last has 2 cities.

35. turn - 2390BC: Warrior outside LM returns to guard it and the workers there. Warrior complete in U, started building granary. Move workers at U to mine grass SW of U.

36. turn - 2350BC: LM connected to C. Aztec has horses just outide Teotihuacans NW borders.

37. turn - 2310BC: LM workers start to irrigate Ivory W of LM. Mine finished in U, 1 red shield demands a mine at one of the other grasstiles, workers build a road there.

38. turn - 2270BC: Workers at U start mine NE of U. First barbaric warrior spotted 3 tiles east of LM. Warrior to NW spots a barbaric Apache encampment.

39. turn - 2230BC: Irr complete at LM ivory E, road started, will have to team the three imported/captured workers to maximise efficiency. Granary poprushed at C.

40. turn - 2190BC: Granary finished at C, order settler. Mine finished at U grasstile, move our native worker to connect road to future city W of C and horses there, barb worker moved to join the other foreign workers outisde LM. Warrior tries to capture Apache settlement in the NW, he dies trying. Warrior to N has to turn around now as he's surrounded by Aztec borders. Save made.

41. turn - 2150BC: Worker at LM complete, order Barracks. Worker sent to join other native worker N of U. Second Ivory tile near LM is being irr. by the workers there. Warrior in N sent to scout for barb camp in NW.

42. turn - 2110BC: Third foreign worker join gang outside LM. Bought horseback for 60G from Aztecs. I see that Abe has founded New York NE of Washington.

43. turn - 2070BC: Irr. complete at SW Ivory at U, moved workers to make road and irr at NW plain tile. Moved worker to horse to make road there.

44. turn - 2030BC: Second native worker join first N of U at horse tile.

45. turn - 1990BC: Horses conneced N of U. Move worker 1 tile SE to make road.

46. turn - 1950BC: Settler complete at C, order a new settler. Move settler to tile N of horses 4 tiles NW of C.

47. turn - 1910BC: Road finished at SE tile of horses. Move workers to tile NW of horses. Workers at LM start road towards our 5. city NE of LM. Poprushed Granary at U.

48. turn - 1870BC: Order Settler at U. Founded Theveste(T) at tile N of horses. 1 worker start irr. horses, while other start road SW of T. Order warrior at T.

49. turn - 1830BC:

50. turn - 1790BC: Irr at horse done, start&finish irr at
plains SE of T. Warrior now 5 tiles E of LM discover barb camp in mountains 7 tiles E of LM. Save game. Road now stretches 2 tiles NE of U.

51. turn - 1750BC: Writing researched. Go directly to diplo menu to trade it away. Get Iron working+communication w/Persians+33G from Aztec, he now has a total of three cities - Tlateloco built NE of capitol. Get 55G from abe, a ripoff - but better I get them than the Aztecs. Iroquois is flat broke and has no additional techs, but they have 3 cities like the Aztecs. The persians, like the Iroquois has little to offer, and only has a total of 2 cities. Open embassies in all known capitols except Washington. It will soon be mine anyway. Start and finish irr at roaded plains NW of U. Iron discovered at three places around C - 7 tiles NW, 3 tiles NE and 9 tiles NE. Will try to seize them all before any of my neighbours get them, starting with the one in the NW. Poprushed rax at U. Changed warrior prod at T to rax. Persia is located at the soutend of the continent S of americans. Start researching Lit at 50% science tax - finished in 20 turns.

52. turn - 1725BC: Rax finished at LM, start prod of S. Hoplite. Settler finished at C, ordered new settler at C. Move settler to desert tile SE of iron to the NW of C, he will get there in 4 turns. Irr finished NE of U. Move both workers to connect nearest iron NE of C. Warrior conquer Numidian barb camp to the NE - gains veteran status.

53. turn - 1700BC: Fortify warrior in NE. Send out warrior in LM to guard between LM and NW iron tile.

54. turn - 1675BC: Road finished toward future settlement in NE. Send workers to connect future city by iron tile in NW.

55. turn - 1650BC: Move warrior in NE towards SW he discovers another barb camp two tiles 5 tiles WNW of C. Had to reload this turn because I installed the parent folder called spartan unit into art/unit, and not the root folder under that called spartan unit :( . So when I clicked into LM the game froze with the unit art error.

56. turn - 1625BC: A warrior emerges from the barb camp towards my veteran. I fortify him on the hill where he stands since the barb warrior is on a hill too. Hippo(H) founded at first iron tile, 2 tiles N of T. Order worker at H.

57. turn - 1600BC: Settler finished at U, order it to go to 2. Iron tile - 3 tiles NE of C. workers go to irrigate and connect floodplains seperating T from H. Workers has reached NE iron tile, and start a road there. Our warrior eliminates barb warrior in NE, moves him down SW towards Gaul camp.

58. turn - 1575BC: Settler finished at C, orders a new one - sends him to hill on river near 3. Iron tile in the NE. Our warrior in NE destroys Gaul camp. Move him toward U to be upgraded to Swordman.

59. turn - 1550BC: Stopped warrior in NE heading for LM, and sent him along to guard the settler going to third iron. Workers finish hooking up iron 3 tiles NE of C, the 2 workers will start hooking up the two new cities NE of C with roads.

60. turn - 1525BC: Leptis Minor(LMi) founded at 2. irontile. Sent warrior between LM and H to LM to be upgr. Warrior at U sent to fortify at horses S of T. Start road on hill NE of LMi. Final Save made for 2. C2r report.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_2190_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_1790_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_1525_BC.SAV

Here is a screen at 1525BC showing my expansion of cities numbered from 1. to my future 7. city.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/singuC2r1525BC1.JPG

stwils

Feb 16, 2003, 10:29 AM

Are we going to discuss the first 30 turns, or shall we play the next 30 today?

stwils

Nightfang

Feb 16, 2003, 11:33 AM

There is not a lot to discuss with the first 30 turns, though I will admit I was a bit frustrated not to find any barbie huts for myself.

stwils

Feb 16, 2003, 11:40 AM

Nightfang, I didn't find any huts either. :(

stwils

Singularity

Feb 16, 2003, 02:15 PM

Well to sum it up nicely. I bummed out on granaries. I researched pottery after turn 15 like many others. But stupid me continued to make settlers instead of getting that granary. The statistics says it all.

In addition I had a very inefficient scout pattern with my warriors, instead of going out on axes, they criscrossed from coast to coast. Something leading to late contacts. The only thing I'm happy with is city placement and making reasonable good tradedeals. IMO there's no question that making granaries is a top priroity to get the game underway, especially on higher diff. levels. If this had been an emperor game I would've be kneedeep in **** now.

I rather like the removal of huts, since it adds a limited degree of variations to the luck factor in the game from player to player. You might say that raw skill will show much better how each and every one of us will manage as the game moves on. Infrastucture choices, army size, workforce and so on. I like the facta sheet Cracker :)

stwils

Feb 16, 2003, 02:46 PM

That's right. I forgot Cracker did not have huts in this. In QSC 1 we had barbs and huts and luck told the tale.

As for granaries. I did not build one either.

What is the consensus about how valuable granaries are in the early game?

stwils

cracker

Feb 16, 2003, 03:11 PM

I think you have to look at the granary issue in context of the game plan.

Your objective here is fast domination which requires you to get 2/3rds of the land mass within your borders + 2/3rds of the world's population.

Fast growth is essential to both these objectives. quick domination victories require that you tyr to get the planet covereed with cities as quickly as possible and then to get approximately 2/3rds of those cities within your borders. Using the AI rivals to help you settle the planet is usually a big part of this game plan and then you have to time your military sweeps to take their cities into your possession of be able to replace them as you go.

The landmass configuartion for this game basically means that the ideal strategy my look like: 1) get the home continent filled with cities belonging to someone 2) ethnic cleanse the starting continent. 3) find the rest of the world 4) top off your 66.67% via warfare + settlers.

These games tend to be swordsmen-horsemen-knights driven and in many ways they are a process of strategic denial of iron quickly.

------------

PS, there are some huts in this game just none that are right in your lap as in the prior two QSC games. The scattered barb workers are an incentive to reward you for exploring quickly.

Takeo

Feb 16, 2003, 08:32 PM

QSC C2r by Takeo

Turn 1

2550BC
Make peace with america and get 10g, they lost a warrior, archer, worker
and their road to incense. so they should be slowed for a while.

2510BC
warrior heads home from brief war

2430BC
Carthage builds settler starts spartan hoplite, settler heads west

2270BC
Leptis Magna founded-warrior started

2230BC
Carthage builds spartan hoplite-start settler, Utica builds settler
starts warrior

---------------
Here is where i saved on saturday. I got back to it sunday evening
and played from 2230BC to 1650BC, and the power went out. I had
not saved notepad, so the turnlog from all those years is lost.
Thanks for there being a civ3 autosave! so i didn't lose what i
did, but i lost how i got there. I know that is not in my control,
but i still want to apologize. Don't know how the weather is
everywhere else, but the tristate area around Cincinnati has
experianced an icestorm yesterday and today. I live about 10
miles south of Cinci in Kentucky. Have had 2 different power
outages today.
---------------

Summary of events during those missing turns(by memory)-

-3 more cities founded
-several warriors and chariots built
-discover writing, started on Mathematics
-sold or gifted writing
-bought iron working

can't remember more than that.

1625BC
Carthage builds settler-starts spartan, discover mathematics-
start research on mapmaking

1550BC
Utica builds settler-starts spartan

1525BC
Sabratha founded-worker started worker, Rusicade founded-spartan started

--End of turn 3--

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc2190.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc1790.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc1525.SAV

Takeo

Nightfang

Feb 16, 2003, 09:24 PM

My computer has been doing some odd stuff too, though I am not entirely certain it is the fault of Civ3, just stupid Windows XP. Anyway, I had a hard lock, lost all of my log, but started from where I left off last time again and did it all over again. I was so mad I did not even remember what I did before, so no harm done.

2550BC
Utica founded, start warrior.
W2 north.
W1 southeast.

2510BC
Worker finishes mine, CTRL-R to Utica.
W2 northwest.
W1 southeast.

2470BC
Carthage size 4, increase lux to 10%.
W2 north.
W1 south.

2430BC
W2 west.
W1 south.

2390BC
Carthage finishes Hoplite, start settler.
Hoplite fortify.
W2 west.
W1 southwest.

2350BC
W2 south.
W1 southeast.

2310BC
W2 southwest,
W1 west,

2270BC
W1 southwest.
W2 west.
Worker completes road to Utica, moves south to irrigate desert.

2230BC
W1 west.
W2 west.

2190BC
Carthage completes settler. Starts worker.
Settler to new city site, to the northeast of Carthage.
Worker completes irrigation, CTRL-R road to next city.
W2 southwest.
W1 west.

-----End Turn 40-----

2150BC
Writing completes.
Warrior (W3) completed in Utica, start Granary.
W3 northeast.
W2 east.
W1 southwest.

2110BC
Carthage completes worker (work2), starts settler.
Work2 starts road to next city location.
W3 northeast.
W2 northeast.
W1 south.

At this point, I decide to check in on my neighbors.
MOntezuma (Polite) - 2 cities, has the Wheel and Mysticism. Does not have Writing.
I trade contact with the Americans and 25gp for Mysticism.
Hiawatha (Cautious) - 1 city, has the Wheel, but not Writing.
I trade 75gp for the Wheel, he becomes Polite.
Abe (Cautious) - 2 cities, has Iron Working, but not the Wheel, Writing, or Mysticism.
I trade the Wheel and Writing for Iron WOrking.
I trade Mysticism and 50 gold for contact with the Persians.
Xerxes (Annoyed) - 2 cities, and has no techs to offer, but I have Alphabet, The Wheel, and CB.
I trade CB for 1 gp, leaving him with 2gp. He becomes Cautious.

Iron spotted just beyond Carthage. Need to get it hooked up soon!

2070BC
Leptis Magna founded, starts on warrior.
W3 northeast, spot barbarian worker.
W2 northeast.
W1 west.

Call on Xerxes (Annoyed?), who accepts my offer of Alphabet for 30gp. Returns to (Cautious).

2010BC
W3 to capture barbarian worker (work3) northeast.
Work3 sent to iron deposit.
W2 east.
W1 east.

1990BC
W1 east.
W2 east.
W3 northeast.
Tech to 80%. Literature due in 17 turns now.

1950BC
W3 northeast.
W2 east, spots barbarian camp.
W1 east.

1910BC
Settler completes in Carthange, start worker.
Settler sent west to next city site.
W3 southeast.
W2 east.
W1 east.
Road to Leptis Magna completed. Worker sent back to Utica to improve the shields produced there.

1870BC
Leptis Magna completes warrior (W4). Start barracks.
W4 sent to Utica.
Work3 starts road on iron.
Work1 mines ivory southwest of Utica.
W2 attacks barb camp and is victorious.
W1 east.
W3 southeast.
Switch Utica to Barracks.

1830BC
Carthage completes worker (work4), start next settler.
Work4 sent to Utica to improve shield production.
Theveste founded next to horses. Set to warrior.
W1 east.
W2 east.
W3 southwest.
W4 fortified in Utica.

1790BC
Work4 sent west to mine ivory.
W2 south.
W1 west.
W3 southeast.
Work2 moves to horses to start road.

Rival Checkup!
Monte (Polite) - 2 cities, and has Horseback Riding.
I trade 70gp for Horseback Riding.
Hiawatha (Polite) - 2 cities, and does not have Writing.
Nor will he for a little while.
Abe (Cautious) - 2 cities, tech parity with me.
Xerxes (Annoyed) - 2 cities, does not have the Wheel or Writing.
I trade him the WHeel for 3gp. He is now Cautious.

-----End Turn 50-----

1750BC
W1 east.
W2 west. (Monte is getting kinda close to some horses and iron here.)
Work1 starts road.
W3 south, spots another barb worker!

1725BC
We learn that the number 5 can be used at the end of the year now, not just in other parts of the year.
W1 southeast.
W2 south.
W3 southwest.

1700BC
Damn it Monte, he builds Tiatelolco in a decent spot, I will have to take it soon.
Work1 north to mine.
Horses are hooked!
Mine horses.
W3 south to capture barb worker (Work5)
Work5 immediate starts road to horses to his southwest.

1675BC
Carthage finishes settler, start another one!
Settler sent northeast to found on coast.
Iron hooked!
Work3 starts road to next city site.
Work4 starts road.
W2 southeast.
W1 east.
W3 sent to Leptis Magna to fortify.

1650BC
W1 southeast.
W2 east.

1625BC
A barbarian has come into view near LM.
W3 sent northwest, to intercept barbarian.
Work3 back to LM.
Settler back to LM.
W2 south.
Work4 send to Carthage to begin mining.
Work2 southwest to irrigate.
W1 southeast.
Lux pulled back to 0%

1600BC
Barbarian moves southwest. Must be upset over the captured workers.
W3 attacks barbarian and kills him.
Settler north.
Work3 north.
Work4 mining.
W2 southwest to Theveste.
Work1 starts road.
W1 southeast.

1575BC
W2 fortifies in Theveste.
Theveste switched to Barracks.
Work2 northeast to clear forest.
W1 directed to LM.
W3 north.
Settler north.
Work3 starts road.

St. Augustine's Largest Nations of the World -
1. Chinese
2. Carthage :D
3. Greeks
4. Germans
5. Iriquois
6. Persians
7. Aztecs
8. Americans

Literature completed, start Mathematics!

1550BC
W3 northeast, spots barb factory.
Settler northeast.
Work1 east to mine.

1525BC
Carthage completes settler, starts another one!
Settler sent west to begin cutting off the passage between Aztecs and America,
Work4 starts road.
Work1 mines.
W3 attacks barb factory and is victorious.
Settler northeast.

Rival Check!
Monte (Polite) - 3 cities, does not have Literature.
Hiawatha (Cautious) - 3 cities, does not have Literature.
Abe (Cautious) - 2 cities, does not have Literature.
Xerxes (Cautious) - 3 cities, does not have Writing.

Gonna start cranking out Spartan Hoplites soon in all cities. Once I am done expanding, of course. =)

-----End Turn 60-----

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Carthage_1525bc.jpg

Save files -
2190BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Nightfang_QSC_C2r_bc2190.sav)
1790BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Nightfang_QSC_C2r_bc1790.sav)
1525BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Nightfang_QSC_C2r_bc1525.sav)

Ronald

Feb 16, 2003, 10:41 PM

After starting the game too late and struggling with the upload feature, here are my timelines for the parts 1-3 and the necessary files:

3550bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc3550.sav)
3050bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc3050)
2590bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc2590.sav)
2190bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc2190.sav)
1790bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc1790.sav)
1525bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc1525.sav)
1275bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc1275.sav)
1025bc (http://www.civfanatics.nat/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc1025.sav)
775bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc775.sav)

4000 BC Settler move E, Worker move SE
3950 BC found Carthago, worker move SE
3900 BC research pottery at 90%, worker irrigate
3800 BC worker build road
3700 BC build warrior, start barracks
3450 BC researched pottery, start research bronze working at 100%
3350 BC saw barbarian worker?
3150 BC capture barbarian worker?
3050 BC Americans show out of the blue, trade alphabet for warrior code and bronze working and 17 gold, start to research iron working
3000 BC build granary, start settler
2800 BC build settler, made contact with aztecs, trade masonry for ceremonial burial and 38 gold
2750 BC build utica
2630 BC connect ivory
2590 BC build settler, build warrior

2510 BC build Leptis Magna, saw another worker?
2470 BC researched iron working, there is lots of iron near by
2390 BC build settler
2270 BC capture another barb worker, make contact with Iroquoise, trade masonry for worker and 25 gold
2230 BC found Theveste
2190 BC researched the wheel
2150 BC build barracks, make contact with Persia
1870 BC found Hippo, researched Mysticism
1750 BC found leptis minor
1600 BC found sabratha
1525 BC after building more than 10 warriors, I start to connect iron for upgrading

1475 BC found rusicade, upgrade 11 warriors to swordsmen
1350 BC declare war on america
1325 BC destroy New York
1300 BC made contact with Greece, trade masonry for horseback riding + 20 gold
1250 BC found oea
1225 BC capture washington
1150 BC declare war on aztecs
1125 BC destroy arbel and susa, destroy boston (americans are history), destroy tlalteloco, found hameldrum
1100 BC destroy pasargardae
1050 BC capture Persepolis, destry persia
950 BC destroy teohuacan, trade world map with Iroquoise for writing and 8 gold
traded contact with the germans for 100 gold, traded masonry with germany for 16 gold
925 BC found cadiz
875 BC capture tenochtitlan, destry aztecs
775 BC declare war on iroquoise

next part will follow

Ronald

Singularity

Feb 17, 2003, 12:08 AM

Whoa there Ronald!

Nice to see you join our little thing. But you should pay attention to the dates for each report submit. That means that you should've stopped at 1525BC. Next report at wednsday i think.

Nice game there Takeo. You should've been at Emperor diff.:)

zenga

Feb 17, 2003, 08:24 AM

Zenga Turns 31 - 60

2550BC(31)

Warr1 W to hill. Warr3 NE to forest. Slave1 finishes road on furs and moves SE back towards Carthage. Slave2 finishes road on horses and moves NE to bonus grass.

2510BC(32)

Warr1 S. Warr3 N to mount. Slaves start roads. Worker1 finishes road, start mine. Worker2 finishes road to Utica and moves NE to flood plain.

2470BC(33)

Carthage builds settler, start warrior. Settler heading ENE along road.

Warr1 W. Warr3 N. Work2 starts to iirigate.

Lux tax to 0%. Sci to 90%.

2430BC(34)

Warr1 W. Warr3 N to Aztec border. Settler to hill on coast.

2390BC(35)

Carthage builds warrior (sent to Utica), start settler. Leptis Magna founded, start barracks.

Warr1 S to blue border. Warr3 W. Slaves finish roads move to forest together. Work1 SE and starts forest chop to get quick barracks in Leptis. Work2 starts road.

Contact made with Aztecs and Persia.
Trade Persia Alphabet for BW and 1g.
Trade Aztecs Alphabet for Ceremonial Burial, Iron Working and 12g.
Trade Aztecs The Wheel for 27g. Everybody's now skint except us.

2350BC(36)

Warr1 NW. Warr3 W. Slaves begin forest road.

Carthage size 4, lux tax to 10%.

2310BC(37)

Warr1 NW. Warr3 W. Work2 finishes road and moves NE to ivory. Next city going in this direction.

2270BC(38)

Warr1 NE. Warr3 W. Work2 starts road. Sci down to 70%.

2230BC(39)

Barb warrior appears S of Utica.

Utica builds warrior (sent S to forest for barb), start warrior. Carthage builds settler (sent NW along road for ivory), start warrior.

Warr1 N (lots of incense between America and Persia). Warr3 W (more incense near coast here). Slaves finish forest road and go to iron hill N of Carthage.

Sci back up to 80% after settler to get Writing in 1, lux back to 0%.

2190BC(40)

Barb loses versus warrior. Another appears NE of Leptis.

Writing researched, start Mathematics at 80% (due in 13).

Warrior that defeated barb goes S to find camp. MP in Carthage heads for Leptis. Lux tax to 10%.

Warr1 NW heading homeward. Warr3 meets Iroquois scouts and heads W. Slaves start road on iron. Work1 finishes chop and starts to mine. Work2 finishes road on ivory and moves N to 2nd ivory.

Contact with Iroquois reveals they have no contact with America or Persia (same with Aztecs). They have Mysticism but no Alphabet or Iron Working.
Trade Alphabet and contact with America for Mysticism and 6g.

Zenga 2190AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc2190.sav)

2150BC(41)

Carthage builds warrior, start settler.

MP arrives in Leptis for barb next turn. Warrior S of Utica finds camp.

Warr3 in N heads W again. Work2 starts road on 2nd ivory.

Theveste founded, start warrior. City founding puts ivory inside borders, lux to 0%. Sci up to 90%.
Buy worker from Iroquois for 25g.

2110BC(42)

Barb loses at Leptis and defender promotes to vet, warrior heads N to look for camp. Warr3 W. Camp dispersed S of Utica for 25g.

2070BC(43)

Iron hooked up. Stop logging worker movements. Scout in N sees Iroquois borders. Warrior finds camp NNE of Leptis on hill at river delta.

Nobody else has Writing yet. America doesn't have Mysticism. Persia and Aztecs don't have IW either. At this stage I may have traded or gifted tech, but going for Domination will keep them just now.

2030BC(44)

Utica builds warrior, start barracks. Iroquois scout spotted on way to America and Persia. Sell Hiawatha contact with Xerxes for 28g. Disperse camp N of Leptis.

1990BC(45)

Carthage builds settler, start barracks. Settler headin NE along road to E coast for furs.

Barb appears W of Utica, MP sent to defend slave working on horse.

1950BC(46)

Barb defeated near Utica, warrior heads to find camp. Theveste builds warrior, start barracks.

1910BC(47)

Warrior now in jungle, no sign of camp.

1870BC(48)

Hippo founded on E coast giving us furs, start granary for now. Sci down to 80%, Maths in 1.

Leptis builds barracks, start hoplite.

1830BC(49)

Maths researched, start Mapmaking at 100% (due in 11). America and Iroquois have Writing.

Camp found in jungle, seems to be deserted?

1790BC(50)

Warrior takes undefended camp for 25g.

Buy worker from Iroquois for 25g.

Zenga 1790AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc1790.sav)

1750BC(51)

Carthage builds barracks, start temple.

1725BC(52)

Ivory up near Iroquois too.

1700BC(53)

1675BC(54)

All civs bar Aztecs have Horseback Riding.
Trade with Persia Writing for Horseback Riding and 1g. Everyone now has Writing, still got a monoploy on Maths.

1650BC(55)

Persia has IW now. Sci down to 90%, Maps in 3.

1625BC(56)

Barb appears NW of Utica. MP wins and will go for camp.

1600BC(57)

Carthage builds temple, start settler. Leptis builds hoplite, start sword.

Scouts report that the Aztec capital has spices nearby. Good stuff. MP from Utica goes barb hunting. Sci down to 80%, Maps in 1.

1575BC(58)

Mapmaking researched, start Currency at 100% (due in 10).

Trade Aztecs Masonry for World Map and 2g.
Trade Iroquois Maths for WM and 50g.
Trade America Maths for WM and 17g.
Trade Persia Maths for WM. That's cleared a lot of fog and shown barb camps.

Swap Hippo to galley.

1550BC(59)

Utica builds barracks, start hoplite. Warrior sidles up next to barb camp.

1525BC(60)

Carthage builds settler, start hoplite. Settler heads N along road.

Barb camp overrun for 25g.

Zenga 1525AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc1525.sav)

Skyfish

Feb 17, 2003, 08:45 AM

I am in a real hurry as I have to go on business trip, no time for a good report.

2550bc : Granny-> Settler (due in 8) growth in 3. I can see a dark turquoise border south. Worker builidng road towards Ivory. Barb worker building mine in Carth. Had a slight weed on Lux/science slider since 2590, corrected now
2510bc : Contact Persia, they are down Alpha, the Wheel and CB, nothing to offer.
2470bc : See another Barb worker, got get him...
2430bc : Ivory connected.
2390bc : we capture another Barb worker.
2310bc : Settler produced in Carthage -> settler
2230bc : Utica founded North by Teotihuacan on river and Ivory, immediately connected by road. Set to Warrior. Warrior in south sees end of continent, moving back towards capital.

2190bc : Worker building road West towards new city site (furs)
2150bc : Barracks produced in Carth -> Hoplite.
2110bc : Settler produced -> Settler
2070bc : Persia has IW exchange vs Alphabet and the Wheel : I want to keep a fast tech pace so I am not greedy about techs. Iros have Horseback Riding exchange it for IW (Americans already have it) and Masonry + 3g
2030bc : utica produces Warrior-> Granny
1990bc : Settler still moving south..
ibt : "Most advanced" NeoCarth followed Iros, Americans and Persians...
1910bc : Spot first Barb. Leptis Magna founded on South lake..
1870bc : Spartan hoplite produced in Carth -> Horseman (for barbarians)
1830bc : Barb threatens my worker by Carth, Hoplite is moved towards it, also Leptis Magna will be ransacked, can't avoid it. Looking to spend money...
Americans have Mysticism for 113g : yes thank you very much !

1790bc : Leptis Magna ransacked for 37g but Barb in East is killed by hoplite no promotion. Barb camp seen by Hoplite.
1750bc : Barb camp (East) dispersed by Hoplite. Monte has Writing, very expensive but they are totally backwards so instead of them using Writing to get level, I exchange Pottery, Mysticism, IW, HB and 2 gpt for it.
Iros and Americans have those techs so it's just a matter of time before Monte trades Writing. I trade Writing to Americans for 98g (what they got from me for Mystic) and to the Iros one worker + 19g. I normally never buy workers but I saw
everybody do it so I have to do it as well.
1725bc : Another Barb camp dispersed (west), no promotion.
ibt : persians building Colossus, hahaha, they are so backwards.
1675bc : Horseman produced, goes to wipe a barb camp. Theveste is founded on west coast by furs and bg.
1650bc : settler produced, hesitate to go to rax for early war... horseman wipes a barb camp but still no promotion. I now have 375g and could do a swordsman rush with some horseman to take out America
and Persia, they are very weak. Decide to go the military way after this last settler
1550bc : All civs totally broke and weak, no deals.
1525bc : Barb camp found north, barb killed but no promotion. Hippo founded in NE.
Treasure : 440g making 17gpt and Currency due in 10 turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish_QSC-C2r_bc2190.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish_QSC-C2r_bc1790.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish_QSC-C2r_bc1525.SAV

zagnut

Feb 17, 2003, 12:19 PM

2550 – Plan is have 2 settler cities with Granaries and 2 military cities with Barracks. Then as many other cities as I can.

2510 – Settler built. Sent N to build next to elephants. Luxuries 0%.

2470 – 2nd city (Utica) built. Worker under construction.

2430 – Northern Warrior sees outline of green lands, probably Aztec. Settler founds 3rd city – Leptis Magna – which will be built as a beautiful city in the hope that it will be discovered by archeologists 2000 years from now. A worker is in production there.

2390 – Worker built in Carthage. Sent N to Leptis.

2350 – Worker at Leptis begins irrigating elephant.

2310 – Writing discovered. Research Literature. Trade Lincoln Writing for Mysticism, Contact with the Persians, a Worker and 21 gold. Trade Xerxes Contact with the Aztecs and Ceremonial Burial for the Wheel plus 3 gold. He goes from being annoyed to cautious. Lincoln is cautious and Aztecs and Iroquois are polite.
Captured worker sent N to Leptis to help in road construction.
Establish Embassy with the Iroquois.

2270 - Program crashes when try to build Spartan Hoplite. Read on the website that McDan had same problem. Went back and fiddled with the installation. Finally realized that the .ini extension was dropped from the Spartan Hoplite file. Don’t know how that happened but was able to correct problem. However, had to reload about 5 times at this date.

Elephant at Leptis irrigated. Science 90%, Luxuries 0%.

2190 – Both Warriors heading N encounter a barb village.

--- End of Turn 40---

2150 – Settler built in Carthage. Barb Warrior leaves village and my Warrior attacks and loses.

2110 – Leptis builds Warrior. Heads north to confront barb village.

2070 – Worker built in Utica. Set to work road/mine bonus square. Barracks under construction.

2030 – Barb attacks Warrior and loses. Theveste founded east of capital. Set to work building Warrior.

1990 – Warrior attacks Barb village and loses! Must not be my day to wage war. Science reduced to 80%. Literature in 8 turns. Try to trade but only Iroquois have a tech I need – Iron Working- and they won’t trade anything.

1950 – Luxuries increased to 20% to head off unrest when pop grows in Carthage. Workers at Theveste building road to horses and mining bonus square.

1910 – Settler built in Carthage. Sent NE to build on coast next to fur square. Worker completes road to horses at Theveste. Sent to bonus square to road/mine. Warrior finally destroys barb village. Luxuries 0%.

1790 – Settler and Warrior going to NE coast see Barb Village. Northern Warrior exploring near Iroquois lands.

---End of Turn 50---

1750 – Warrior from Leptis kills Barb Warrior. Trade – Aztecs give Iron Working and 4 gold for Alphabet and Masonry. I want to trade Xerxes for Horseback Riding but he wants too much and I decide to wait a little. Establish Embassy with Persia.

1725 – Warrior to NE destroys Barb Village. Workers completing road to connect Theveste to new town to be formed in NE by furs. Science reduced to 60%. Embassy established with Aztecs.

1700 – Literature discovered. Researching Map Making. Settler grown in Carthage sets off for NW to secure iron deposit. 2 Workers building road from Utica to Leptis, through the horse square. Research set to 80%. Carthage starts work on Great Library.

1675 – Hippo founded in NE. Try trading with Xerxes but he still wants too much for Horseback Riding.

1650 – Production in Leptis switched from Spartan to Settler at last minute to secure more land N of Carthage. Warrior exploring to the N crosses Iroquois land at its narrowest point.

1625 – Warrior destroys Barb Village to NW. Road completed to town of Hippo in NE. Establish Embassy with Americans.

1600 – Settler going NW to iron sees Barb Village and halts. Warrior is 2 squares away. Settler may have to retreat next turn. Another Barb comes out of mountains and heads toward Theveste. Warrior from Hippo is dispatched to handle him.

1575 – Settler retreating. Warrior coming to his rescue.

1550 – Warrior in Theveste defeats attacking Barb Warrior. Warrior exploring northern lands destroys Barb Village. Negotiate with Xerxes for Horseback Riding. He wants Ceremonial Burial, Writing and 25 gold. I decide to wait as I do not have a need for Horsemen to attack at present time.
1525 – Leptis Minor founded. Warrior defending northern Settler defeats Barb Warrior attack. Moves against Barb Village. Luxuries increased to 10% to head off possible unrest in Carthage when pop increases.

---End of Turn 60---

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc2190.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc1790.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc1525.SAV

zagnut

Feb 17, 2003, 12:56 PM

Cracker:

Are you counting reloads in the same way that you do in GOTM? It would seem to me that we are on our honor not to reload to get a game advantage, but we should be able to reload to compare our games with the other players. I have downloaded games from various players and would like to be able to reload my earlier saves to compare them with the downloaded games. I would like your blessing that this is okay in this game.

PattonTwo

Feb 17, 2003, 01:05 PM

PattonTwo apologizes for the delay in posting his turns.

Turns 1 - 30.

Since I’m expecting (based on world map) to build more cities either south or west, I decide to move my worker south and east to the grassland with shield square before settling. I’m intending to move my settler south of the river before founding my city.

4000bc. Moving the worker pays off BIG TIME as I find the Cow resource. That cements it and I move my settler 1 square due south.
3950bc. I found Carthage and start on a warrior. I start the worker on a road on the grassland square. The next move will be to the Cow.
3900bc. I start on Bronze Working with max tech it will be done in 15 turns.
3850bc. Worker done and moves to Cow. Starts building road next turn.
3700bc. Warrior produced and I start on a second Worker. Since I have ocean to my east, the Warrior starts off west, moving to the mountain for a better view. The worker joins him on the mountain to build a road.
3600bc. Warrior continues north and west along the line of the hills.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc3050.sav

3500bc. Worker produced. I start on a warrior. After that I’ll start on a settler.
3400bc. The mountain road is done and the worker continues due west. The second worker moves to the mountain next to the tiny lake to my south west for a better view. My warrior is moving west from the end of the connected mountains to another mountain.
3300bc. I discover Bronze Working and start on Pottery which will take only 8 turns. An American scout appears just south of Carthage and I make contact. He has pottery and lacks alphabet. I don’t make the trade, but switch to researching The Wheel instead assuming I can get Pottery from him almost any time.
3250bc. I finally find a hut, only to get barbarians from it. I finish my warrior in Carthage and start on a settler. The warrior moves north and east.
3200bc. My warrior kills the attacking barbarians and is promoted to Elite. I begin irrigating the Cow, and my 1st worker moves further west to continue the road.
3050bc. I find a barbarian worker in the north east.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc3050.sav

2850bc. I build my settler and move him towards the forest on the west side of “tiny lake”. Since America is south I want to expand that way first.
2750bc. Uticia founded. I also see the borders of another civ to my north.
2710bc. I capture a second barbarian worker on a hill to the north.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc3050.sav

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/2950bc.JPG

stwils

Feb 17, 2003, 01:09 PM

Preturn (still at 2590bc)
Change production from hoplite to archer in Carthage

Enter*
Palace expands

2550bc (31)
workers and warriors move

2510bc (32)
Carthage gets archer/set Granary
archer moves west
workers road
warrior captures enemy worker

Enter*
We trade Alphabet for Wheel with Iroquois

2470bc (33)
workers irrigate
warrior sees horse

2430bc (34)
workers split up: one goes toward horse, the other goes to hill
warriors and archer explore
worker roads on beaver
other worker roads toward horse
worker roads hill

2350 ((35)
Warrior walks into Persia!
warrior moves back toward home

Persia wants us to move
We want to trade for a tech but he has nothing and is broke

2310bc (36)
Warrior steps out of Persia
workers road

2270bc (37)
Worker moves to horse
warriors explore

2230bc (38)
worker roads horse (to connect with colony perhaps)

Utica gets warrior/set to settler
2190bc (40) misnumbered somewhere
workers hope to connect both our cities with roads soon
warriors explore

Save for turns 31-40

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc2190.sav

PattonTwo

Feb 17, 2003, 01:41 PM

This was a slow time period for me. Just researching, building and waiting...

2550bc. I actually have too MANY workers. I shouldn’t have wasted the build of the second worker, but I was hoping for more huts and a shot at a settler.
2270bc. I meet the Iroquois. They won’t give me mysticism for alphabet. I check the other civs. America is even with me in tech. The Aztecs have Iron Working, but I’ll have that in 4 turns. Then I’ll go talk to the Iroquois again.
2150bc. I discover Iron Working. The Aztecs have traded Alphabet to the Iroquois for Mysticism. Of course they seem to trade 1 for 1 with each other… I get Mysticism from America for Iron Working.
1990bc. I discover Persia south of America. I trade him Ceromonial Burial for his $13 just to get him from Annoyed to Cautious. He’s 2 techs behind everyone else.
1910bc. Uticia builds a settler and starts working on a Temple.
1870bc. A TERRIBLE turn. My new settler blindly walks in front of a barbarian. From the west, a barbarian comes out of the dark, kills a worker and then pillages my settler production in Carthage which was 2 turns from completion!
1675bc. Carthage builds a settler. However the 2 settlers lost should seriously damage my QSC. Lesson learned is to keep at least 1 warrior at home. I don’t know if I’d start escorting my settlers unless I have an extra warrior doing nothing though.
1600bc. Leptis Magna founded on the western coast. I’ve got a culture bridge built across the continent now…for all the good it does.
1575bc. I discover Writing and start on MapMaking which will take 20 turns.
1525bc. Carthage builds a settler and should produce one every 7 turns without my intervention. Settler moves to capture the Ivory and horse resources just northwest of Carthage.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc2190.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc1790.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc1525.sav

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/1525bc.JPG

stwils

Feb 17, 2003, 02:23 PM

Turns 2190bc -1790bc

Preturn: we are not growing fast enough
moved citizens around a bit to help city growth

2150bc
worker completes road to horse. builds colony
warrior south of Persia may be in a bad way. We'll see if there is land ahead, not water

2110bc
all workers road
poor warrior sees spices below Persia, but alas he is trapped

2070bc
barb enters Carthage - and we are caught with our pants down. Unprotected. Damn.
Warrior goes to spices. He might as well. No place else except Persia

2030bc
Carthage was pillaged.
workers move back to Carthage
one Warrior moves into - America, I think. (Oh dear. We already met them.)

It was the Iroquois!
We trade 85 gold for Iron
Carthage builds warrior/ set swordsman

1990bc
sentry warrior
workers mine
we build colony on furs

1950bc
moved warriors around
we get writing/ set for map making
1910bc
warrior is surrounded by aztecs. :(

1870bc
warrior is not attacked. But he is at an edge.

1830bc
workers mine

1790bc
archer sees iron
warrior had to step into Persia to avoid walking into the sea

the save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc1790.sav

PattonTwo

Feb 17, 2003, 02:33 PM

PattonTwo 3rd Report

Again, this was mostly a building and waiting time.

1450bc. I am fortunate that my latest settler sees the barbarian move next to him as opposed to the other way around. I send the warrior from Carthage and kill the barbarian.
1400bc. Theveste built near horses and ivory. I start on a warrior, and a temple will follow.
1350bc. Carthage builds settler. He heads east and north to found on the coast.
1300bc. Hippo founded on north east coast next to horses. Starts on a temple.
1175bc. Carthage builds settler. I start on a Barracks and then will build some Horsemen. The Aztecs for now are my first target. After them will come the Americans, who seem to have no Iron or Horses!
1100bc. Leptis Minor built due north of Carthage just north of the mountain.

I forgot to do the 1025bc save, so this is my closest recreation. I had to play forward from 1275 to get it. It should be very close.

975bc. Carthage builds Barracks and starts on Swordsman.
875bc. I finish Polytheism and start on Monarchy, due in 18 turns.
825bc. I research Map Making and start on Polytheism heading towards Monarchy.
775bc. I’m up to 6 cities. Carthage is busy building Swordsmen, and 2 other cities are SLOWLY building Barracks. I’m guestimating war with the Aztecs in another 20 – 30 turns. Monarchy is 13 turns away, and will help.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_1275bc.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_1025bc.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_775bc.sav

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/775bc2.JPG

stwils

Feb 17, 2003, 03:13 PM

Turns 1790bc -1525bc

Aztecs ask us to move. We say we will

1750bc
archer moves south

1725bc
our archer kills a barb and is now elite!

1700bc
our archer breaks up a barb camp and we gold
workers in Carthage

1675bc
Carthage builds a settler. set another in 6 turns
settler moves west
archer moves and sees another barb camp!

1650bc
our brave elite archer faces barbs, kills one
settler moves to horse. Ahkkkk. A barb camp is right close by

1625bc
Settler builds on horse, and the camp is dispersed and we get gold.
We build Leptis Magna
Archer finishes off barb camp

1600bc
Bad times. Leptis Magna overrun by barbs AND barbs attacked our colony

1575bc
Utica's warrior kills barb
Our palace expands

1550bc
Carthage gets another settler/ set for Swordsman
settler moves
workers prepare to connect Laptis Magna by road soon

1525bc
Utica gets settler/ set Swordsman
one settler moves north, another starts south
workers road
warrior moves to protect settler
archer moves near crouching barb

The save
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc1525.sav

zagnut

Feb 17, 2003, 05:59 PM

1500 – Science reduced to 70%, Luxuries 0%. Barracks built in Utica and Theveste. Spartans being produced.

1475 – Warrior defending northern Settler destroys Barb Village. Warrior east of Theveste destroys Barb Village. 2 Workers sent to connect iron east of Carthage.
Try to trade Literature with everyone. America offers the best deal. Gives me Map Making, Horseback Riding, Territory Map and 5 gold. Aztecs give World Map and 20 gold. Iroquois give World Map and 6 gold. Persians give World Map for Ceremonial Burial. I now know scope of the entire continent. All civs are polite toward me.

1450 – Sabratha founded. Production in Theveste switched to Galley. Production in Utica switched to Horseman. Researching Philosophy.

1425 – Science increased to 70%.

1400 – Road completed to Sabratha.

1350 – First Warrior upgraded to Swordsman. Luxuries increased to 10% to prevent unrest in Carthage when pop increases.

1325 – Galley built at Theveste. Galley sets off to discover new lands. Production to Spartan.

1275 – Trade Persia Mysticism for World Map and all his gold (25).

---End of Turn 70---

1250 – Science reduced to 60%, Luxuries 0%.

1200 – 2 more Warriors upgraded to Swordsmen.

1175 – Science reduced to 50%, Luxuries 10%. Workers improving squares. Warriors moving to Barracks towns to upgrade. Towns building Horsemen and Spartans to invade northern neighbors.

1150 – Galley takes chance and heads east. Sees coastal sea squares of other continent. Now if she can just survive those storm clouds gathering on the eastern horizon.

1125 – Utica builds another Horseman. Set to work building another. Inventory of military units is 5 Swordsmen, 2 Horsemen, 1 Spartan and 2 Warriors. Soon my neighbors will feel the Zagnutian blitz. Wait, what is that a carrier pigeon flying in with a message from my Galley. Zounds, it has survived the storm. The captain, by the name of Europus, will have the new land named after him and be promoted to Admiral on his return.
1100 – Make contact with Chinese. They have Polytheism and want Writing and Contact with the other civs. I don’t want them to have contact, so decline to trade. However, I give them 1 gold to keep on good terms.

1075 – Discover Code of Laws. Researching Republic. Science increased to 60%, Luxuries 20%. Military units moving into place on border of Aztecs.

1050 – Luxuries reduced to 10%.

1025 – Contact with Germany. Trade it Literature, Pottery and Mysticism for Contact with the Greeks, World Map and all their gold (44). The Greeks have no techs I need, but I trade them Contact with the Chinese for World Map and all their gold (25). Still no gold per turn trades. The Chinese will not trade Polytheism without Contact with one of the civs on my continent. I don’t want that and so trade them Contact with the Germans for their Territory Map and 19 gold. I now know the entire world and have contact with all civs.
Luxuries increased to 20%.

---End of Turn 80---

1000 – The Aztecs declare war on me! Jag and a Settler(?) cross my border near Hippo in the NE. Swordsman sent to intercept. A Jag attacks my northern most city and is repulsed by the Spartan. Love that 3 defense.

2 Barbs approaching Utica. Upgrade my final Warrior to a Swordsman in Utica.

Switch from Great Library to Pyramids in Carthage. Since I am ahead of every other civ in techs, the Pyramids will be more valuable. Note that with pop up to 7 in Carthage the Granary is no longer effective (?).

975 – A foxy Barb Horsemen sneaks around my defender at Utica and kills one of my Workers. My Swordsman gives him a particularly gruesome end. Meanwhile at Hippo, the Jag escorting a Settler is dispatched and 2 Workers are captured and set to work building a road.
Teotihuacan is captured, no loses. Starve pop. Luxuries reduced to 10%.

950 – Swordsman from Utica going after Barbs in shaded zone. Granary still not effective in Carthage. What is going on?

900 – Swordsman destroys Barb Village.

875 – Trade China Code of Laws, Map Making and Contact with America for Polytheism, Mathematics, World Map and all their gold (71). Trade Greeks Contact with America for World Map and all their gold (25). Germany has no gold and I don’t need their World Map.

850 – Tenochtitlan captured. No loses. Starve pop.
Now Granary is functioning in Carthage. What happened? I took no action.
Workers build road to elephant in Leptis Magna, anticipating cultural increase from Temple.

825 – Talelco destroyed.

800 – Galley sinks Barb Galley.

775 – Galley sinks another Barb Galley. Forces moving on last Aztec city.

---End of Turn 90---

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc1275.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc1025.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc775.SAV

stwils

Feb 17, 2003, 06:22 PM

I'm looking now at the screen shots some of you have included in your 1525bc log/save.

Wow. I can't believe how many cities some of you have! I only have 3.

stwils - running fast trying to keep up. :sheep:

Singularity

Feb 19, 2003, 03:08 PM

61. 1500BC: Aztec Jaguar(jag) appears 3 tiles NE of LMa. After counting cities vs units i must rethink my productions. Change from settler to barracks in Car and Utica. Change from worker to barracks in Hippo. Keep building granary in LMi. Send warrior from hill NE of LMi to LMa to be upgraded. Fortify Swordsman(SM) in LMa. Send warrior fortified on horses to LMa to be upgraded. Start building road on hill NE of LMi with native workers. Move slaves to floodplains NE of Thev to road and irr later. Change order from Sp. Hoplite(SH) at LMa to horseman(HM).

62. 1475BC: W2 start irr at flood NE of Thev.

63. 1450BC: Aztecs declare war. Jag attacks LM from NE, he dies. Upgrade warrior at LM. Last warrior enter LM. Sabratha founded at hill 3 tiles ENE of LMi, start prod warrior there. Road on hill NE of LMi finished, W1 move to shielded grass SE of LMi to mine and road.

64. 1425BC: Two new jag's come south from Teotihuacan(Teo). Order one SM to fortify on mnt. W of Hippo. SM2 attacks and kills one of the jag's outside LMa. Road and irr finished at floods NE of Thev.

65: 1400BC: Order Regular SM to move to hill 3 tiles NW of Sa to watch for barb camps since Sa is undefended, he will also snag any settler or jags coming from the aztecs. The last jag from last round has fortified outside LM, i send the last SM in LMa to kill him. I now have a rough defence that should be prepared for most that the Aztecs have to send at me. Barracs is finished at Car, order HM. With the 2 horses soon finished I will have mobility and ability to strike along my entire northern border within one rounds notice. Send slaves to mountain W of Hippo to build road to further increase my dencive mobility.

66. 1375BC: SM norht of LM returns to LMa. Mine finished at shielded grass SW of LMi, start and finish road. SM reach hill 3 tiles NW of Sa. Trade mysticism from Iroq for 46G, Iroq has 4 cities now and no new techs. Americans and Persians both have 3 cities, and no new tech - persia is least advanced. From what I can see on my map Aztecs also only have 3 cities. Literature finished in 2 rounds. Whip barracks at Utica.

67. 1350BC: Barracks finished at U, order SM. HM finished at LM, order SM. Fortify SM and HM at LMa, fortify SM at hill 3 tiles NW of Sa. Move native workers to grass S of LMi. Persian settler and spear moves north SW of U.

68. 1325BC: Literatur finished, start researching poly at 90% science - will finish in 9 rounds. Jag comes down to mnt. N of Hippo, sacrifice my HM from SM trying to remove him :( Aztec now has a GA to bolster its military, upside is that he will prbly have research to give me when I make him sue for peace.Move SM from mnt. W of Hippo into Hippo, and SM in LMa to mnt. E of Hippo to protect the slaves working there.

69. 1300BC: Jag retreats to heal I guess. HM finished at Car, order temple at Car. Road finished at mnt. E of Hippo. Move SM from Hippo to fortify on that mnt. Tries to move SM at mnt. to fortify at LM, mistake him for worker and move him to hill 2 tiles SW of LM instead. Move slaves to hill 2 tiles SW of LM to mine and make road, one crosses river SE of hill on automove :( move rest manually proper way to get them there in this turn. Sucks that automove can't figure the fastest route from A to B.

70. 1275BC: Second grass tile mined and roaded S of LMi. Change order at Sa from warrior to granary. SAVE MADE.

71. 1250BC: Move native workers to last grass tile 2 tiles SW of LMi. Fortifies SM in LMa.

72. 1225BC: Jag comes down to forest 2 tiles NW of LMa. Attack it first with SM on mnt E of Hippo. Jag retreats 1 tile NE, follow and kill it with SM in LMa. Start mine on last grass tile SW of LMi.

73. 1200BC: Move SM back to mnt. E of Hippo. Move SM S to tile NW of LM. Start mine on hill 2 tiles SW of LM. 2 warriors from Xerxes come north, 3 tiles SW of Utica - he can't be serious to threaten me with that... Xerxes founds Arbela 4 tiles NW of Utica. Hiawata founds Cattaraugus 4 tiles WNW of H. That makes Iroq citycount 5 and Persias 4. Move HM from LMa to Car to keep the mood up.

74. 1175BC: Xerxes crosses my borders, and is now 2 tiles WNW of Utica. I warn him, and he assures me he will retreat - i hope so for his sake. Aztec sue for peace, I laugh at him. I really need a bigger military fast, whip a SM at Theveste. Mine and road finished on the last grass tile with shield SW of LMi.

75: 1150BC: Xerxes keep moving into my empire, after this warning the 2 warriors warp out to 2 tiles E of Arbeia. Move SM from T to fortify 1 tile S of Thev. Move native workers to finish linking Sa to the rest of my empire - 1 tile SW of Sa. Conquest/domination victory seem far away at this point. Hiawata has researched philosophy. I will not trade lit with him yet. 3. persian warrior comes north to 3 tiles S of Car. He's really on the move...

76. 1125BC: Finish researching poly. Trade it with Iroq for phil+42G. Trade it with Abe for 46G. Start researching monarhy at 90% science. Will be done in 14 rounds. Xerxes keeps trying to cross my borders, and he keeps sending them out when i tell him to. Temple finished at Car, order SM. Whip barracks at Hippo.

77. 1100BC: Same borderritual with Xerxes. Mine finished 2 tiles SW of LMa. Move slaves to hill NW of Car. SM finished at U, order new SM there. Road at tile SW of Sa links it to the rest of my empire.

78. 1075BC: SM finished at LMa, order new SM. Kill Aztec Archer at mnt N of Hippo with SM from mnt E of Hippo - SM still regular with 2HP left. See that Aztec has Mapmaking, try to sue for peace getting mapmaking - but he refuses. Slaves start mine on hill NW of Car. Natives start mine on tile SW of Sa. Move SM from LMa to Car. Xerxes still tries to cross my borders, he must be curios to the lands that I've not settled yet in the NE.

79. 1050BC: SM finished at Car, order new SM. I now have 7 SM and 1 HM, soon I can finish Aztecs off. Move SM into Hippo.

80. 1025BC: Granary finished at LMi, start barracks. Mine finished at Sa grass tile. Move natives to last shielded grass tile NW of Sa. Move SM from Car to mnt 3 tiles SSW of Car. Second SM fortify at Utica. SAVE MADE.

81. 1000BC: 2 Aztec archers come south towards Hippo, 2 tiles N on floodplains. Move SM in LM to Hippo. We trade tech with Abe, Mapmaking+worldmap for literature+worldmap+14G. I can see the greek city of corinth on the land W of Iroquois territory, but still no contacts. Iroquois has three ironsources close or in his territory, but not hooked up yet. The other three civs has no iron in or next to their territory. Xerxes is hooked up to horses deep in the south. I will try to take America and Persia before I go northwards, that means dealing a peacedeal for now with Aztecs. I get 25G and his worldmap for peace. I move my regular SM south from Hipo towards the mnt I allready have fortified with a SM. I will rally my units there before I take Abe.

82. 975BC: My peacedeal made my people upset. C riots :( , forgot to check that one. A persian archer comes north to join his warriors trek towards the free lands in the NE. I will have to declare war on both Abe and Xerxes so that persian forces will make no threat to my largely undefended cities. I change my order at Utica from SM tp Sp. Hoplite(SH). I could use a GA soon.

83. 950BC: Move HM and newly finished SM from Car to rallypoint.
SH finished at Utica, order new SH. I start my war in the south by declaring war on persia. SM at Utica kill warrior S of T. SM at Thev kill warrior S of Thev. SM at Utica kill W 3 tiles SW of C. SM at rallypoint kill archer 2 tiles ESE of Utica and is promoted to elite. Mine and road finished at grass NW of Sa and on hill NW of Car.

84. 925BC: Fortify wounded elite SM and vet SM at tiles W and SW of rallypoint. Move slaves and native workers southwards to link New York(NY) to my empire with road.

85. 900BC: SM finished at T, order HM. Change SM order at LMa to SH. Change SM order at C to SH. New rallypoint in forest 2 tiles NW of NY, move all healed units towards new rallypoint, except 1 SM in Thev, 1SM heading for Utica, 1SM fortified at mnt. E of Hippo and 1 fortified at hill 3 tiles NW of Sa.

86. 875BC: SM at Utica kills persian spear and captures settler(2 workers) 2 tiles SW of Utica, SM promoted to elite. Persian slaves set to buil road on that tile. SH finished and fortified at LMa. SH finished at Car, SH sent to rallypoint. Unitcount on, or en route to, rallypoint is 5 SM, 2 SH and 1 HM.

87. 850BC: Stops native worker to make a mine on ironhill W of LMi. Barracks finished at LMi, start HM.

88. 825BC: 2 persian HM comes to north to 2 tiles SE of Utica. Move SM from finished road 2 tiles SW of Utica to fortify in Utica, move persian slaves to plains N of U. Attack and kill one HM with HM from rallypoint. Move SH from rallyp to defend fighting HM. Declare war on america. Attack and kill warrior + settler E of rallypoint with regular SM. Move american slaves to rallypoint. Move 3 SM + 1 SH to the hill NW of NY from rally. Move SM from Thev to tile NE of Utica. Change order at Hippo to HM.

89. 800BC: Persia try to sue for peace, I refuse as he wont even give me a city. His HM kills my SM NE of Utica. My SM in Utica kills his HM. Car makes HM, I order a new HM. Elite SM kills spear in NY. Veteran SM kills spear in NY - NY destroyed - 1 worker captured. They allways whip their city down to 1 when I come knocking on their doors :( Move Slaves down to rallyp., amer slaves there start road. Change prod at Car to settler. Abe has built Philidelphia on his W coast, 4 tiles SSE of where NY was.

90. 775BC: Finished researching monarchy, start researching maths at 10% science. Start revolution. Maximise food harvesting in all cities, move native workers to other roadbuilders 3 tiles S of Car. My units position are: 2 SM, 1 SH and 1 HM 3 tiles NNE of washington. 1 elite SM healing where NY where. 1 elite SM healing in hills NE of where NY where + 1 SH and 1 HM in those hills. Abe and xerxes shouldn't take too long to fall now. But I'm still way behind schedule on a Conquest or domination victory within the next 30 turns.
Cities: 7.
Unitcount: 8 SM. 2 HM. 3 SH. 2 workers. 3 american slaves, 2 persian slaves, 2 barbarian slaves and 1 aztec slave.
Other civs: Persia 4 cities, America 3 cities, Aztec 4 cities and Iroquois 5 cities, none of them have a tech I dont have. Can see the easternmost greek city of corinth, but no contact. SAVE MADE.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_1275_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_1025_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_775_BC.SAV

Here is a screen of the southend of my empire at 775BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/SinguCarth775BC.JPG

cracker

Feb 19, 2003, 04:11 PM

You guys keep getting ahead of me and the data summary because I have to wait for the last stragglers while some of blitz ahead.

Here is the data sumamry table for all games up to 1525bc:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/QSC_C2table1525bc.gif

Hotrod has jumped out into the lead on the strength of a luccky contact surge getting contact with the other continent without the benefit of galleys and this also aids in his ability to trade and research techs even more favorably.

Zenga is the strongest technology player in the regent group with Nightfang and Skyfish close behind but in general the Regent group is legging behind the Emperor group in technology development even though their research is cheaper. Does any one have a clearer understanding of why this would be so??

We can begin to see the purpose of the Charis gambit in this game because he has the largers and most power single city and is only a few turns away from completing the Pyramids.

We are beginning to reach the top-out of the early positioning phase so we will see some radically shifts in power position in the coming turns as the different player begin to pursue their different paths to domination. One thing that does not clearly appear in the data is that in general the Regent worlds have fewer total cities in place across all civilizations and in general represent a much weaker combined progress by all the players (AI+Human) towards the objectives of civilizing the world in some way.

Singularity

Feb 19, 2003, 04:40 PM

Emperor players can more easily trade with stronger neighbours for techs. Their writing research gave them much more techs to trade than we had, regent players mostly got gold or a slave if we where lucky. Emperor players also seem to have a higher pool of workers to buy from their bigger neighbours. I've only traded one worker for a tech, and after countless tries I've not seen one worker available on the diplo screen.

I suspect that the scores will even out and overlap from regent perspective as the weaker cities will fall easier to our military in the last two periods. A drawback for us at regent will be that the weaker cities will be size one in many cases, making it harder for us to capture them intact. And the infrastructure will be impaired on conquered regent territory as well. In the end I guess it will be the person with most knights and a well timed GA who will win the race into the other continent. In my case I doubt that I will even be able to start transporting my knights across to the next continent before last round is finished.

All in all there doesn't seem to be significant gains to be made from playing regent compared to emperor unless you start a very early war with warriors/horses only. Which none of us have done.

---

An early GL will also have a huge impact on the scores here, since he can make a FP at a favourable location to erase the horrible early corruption in the game.

zagnut

Feb 19, 2003, 04:49 PM

Cracker, you mentioned that there are less cities on Regent. That is not correct if you just look at the human players. The Emperors have 5.5 cities per player, while the Regents have 5.33. I think the difference is in the speed with which the AI can expand on Emperor level.

Singularity's explanation for the tech deficiency sounds plausible.

Charis

Feb 19, 2003, 05:17 PM

Zagnut, I think cracker meant that the Regent *AI* has fewer cities, so the overall planet, AI+human, is advancing more slowly. The tech deficiency is partly due to this as well. The player is much more likely to be first to get to a tech, meaning he spent 'full' price for it, compared to buying it at 3rd civ price or so.

Thanks agn cracker for the nice work and the summary. I'm looking forward to seeing how the different strategies all pan out in the end.

Charis

zenga

Feb 19, 2003, 06:36 PM

The AI's progress, both production wise and research, at Regent is slower due to the lack of bonus it gets at that level compared to Emperor. Add in a lack of huts in this map and it makes a big difference to the other civs. Buy a couple of workers, which restricts their road building (and hence research potential), and it cripples them.

Unless given a hideous start, up to Monarch level I find I can progress far quicker by self-researching at full speed from the start and trade for any techs the AI gets first. Being first to research any given tech gives the player many possibilities. In the Ancient Age, although gold is in short supply, taking whatever the rival civ has to offer allows science spending to be kept high for longer and takes away the option of upgrading for the rival, meaning the need for less military.

One thing I'm not sure of (if someone knows), does the AI in the early game ever research at deficit spending (assuming it has any gold)?

Singularity

Feb 19, 2003, 07:10 PM

Sorry about posting last timeline before your nice summary sheat. How about everyone delay uploading last 3 saves and report untill after Crackers 1500-775 summary on saturday 23.feb? It would make everything more neat, and keep the 'spoilers' to a minimum.

zagnut

Feb 19, 2003, 08:40 PM

I apologize for posting my 775 report early. When it said the third report (through 775) by Feb 19, I thought that meant we could post it anytime between Feb 16 and Feb 19, but not after Feb 19. I will hold off on my next report. After all, I don't want you folks learning my secrets too early.

Nightfang

Feb 19, 2003, 09:17 PM

I also was under the impression that the Timelines and saves were due today, not after today. Oh well. :)

Once my war breaks out, I stop recording my workers, and concentrate on my military actions.

1500BC
Work3 CTRL-R to next city site.
Found Hippo, start Barracks.
W3 fortifies.
W1 fortifies in LM.

1475BC
Work4 southeast to mine.

1450BC
Leptis Minor founded, starts warrior.
Worker outside Utica starts road.
Worker at horses starts cutting road to Leptis Magna.

1425BC
Worker finished with forest cutting, starts road to Leptis Minor.

Rival check -
Hiawatha (Cautious) - still does not possess Literature.
Monte (Polite) - still does not possess Literature.
Xerxes (Cautious) - still does not have Writing.
Abe (Cautious) - still does not have Literature.

1400BC
Utica finishes Barracks, start Hoplite.
Worker outside of Utica moves northwest to mine.

1375BC
A barb has come into view near my northeastern workers. Not sure I can get defenders there fast enough.
Carthage produces Settler, start Hoplite.
Settler to hill next to horses.
Worker near Carthage starts road.

1350BC
Settler and worker to LM, to get away from the barbarian.

1325BC
Finish Mathematics, start Map Making, which is due in 11 turns.
LM finishes Barracks, starts Hoplite.
Leptis Minor finishes warrior, who fortifies. Start Hoplite.
We hear tell that the Aztecs are building the Oracle, and the Persians the Colossus.
Worker near Carthage to south of town to mine.
Worker and settler wait in Utica.

1300BC
Barbarian attacks LM, fended off by our warrior.
Theveste completes Barracks, starts Hoplite.
Palace expansion.
Settler resumes journey.
Worker resumes getting horses hooked to road network.
Worker north of Utica starts road.
Road to Leptis Minor complete.
Worker in L Minor east to mine.
Road to Hippo complete.
Warrior from L Magna sent to find source of the barbarian menace.

1275BC
Monte has entered my territory with a single Jag Warrior. What is he up to?
Contact Monte, and make him withdraw the unit.
Worker in Hippo west to road furs.

Rival check -
Monte (Polite) - 4 cities, has Map Making.
I trade Mathematics for Map Making.
I trade World Map and 5gp for his world map.
Hiawatha - (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Map Making, Literature, or Mathematics.
I trade my world map for his and 19gp. Moves to Polite.
I trade Mathematics for 11gp.
Abe (Cautious) - 3 cities. Does not have Mathematics or Literature.
I trade my world map for his and 20gp.
I trade Mathematics for 11gp.
Xerxes (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Map Making, Literature, or Mathematics.
I trade Mathematics for 10gp.

-----End Turn 70-----

1250BC
Monte has declared war on me. Utica is captured, though he loses a Jag warrior in the process.
Found Sabratha, start Hoplite.
Worker outside of Utica back to my territory,

1225BC
Carthage completes Spartan, start new one.
New Hoplite to Utica.
Barbarian camp destroyed.
Horses from Sabratha hooked to all towns now.

1200BC
Warrior fortifies, future city site.
Hoplite attacks and beat Jag Warrior in Utica.
Golden Age begins!
Utica back under our control. Start Hoplite.
Sabratha changed to Hoplite.
Hippo changed to Hoplite.

1175BC
Hoplite fortfies in Utica.

1150BC
Workers assigned to tasks.

1125BC
Hoplite completed in Carthage. Sent to Utica. Start another Hoplite.
Furs hooked!

1100BC
Theveste completes Hoplite, fortify.
Hoplite in Utica fortifies.

1075BC
Some movement of workers, nothing to report.

1050BC
Complete Polytheism, go for Philosophy (4 turns).
Carthage completes Hoplite, start archer.
Hoplite to Utica.

1025BC
L Magna completes Hoplite, sent to Utica. Start Horseman.
L Minor completes Hoplite, fortifies. Start Archer.
Luxuries to 10%. Carthage is now size 7, wow!

-----End Turn 80-----

Rival check -
Monte (Furious) - They offer peace, but screw them. 5 cities now, and still does not have Literature.
Hiawatha (Polite) - 4 cities. Still does not have Literature.
I trade my world map for his.
Abe (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Literature or Polytheism.
I trade world maps with him.
Xerxes (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Literature, Map Making, or Polytheism.
I trade world maps with him.

1000BC
Carthage completes archer, starts Barracks.
Archer to Utica.
Hippo finishes Hoplite (fortifies) start new one.
Utica now has 4 hoplites and an archer.
L Magna is undefended (how did I let that happen?) Move Hoplite from Carthage to L Magna.
Move Hoplite from Utica to Carthage.

The Iriqouis contact me, wishing to trade Territory maps. I agree.

975BC
Jag Warrior comes into view, heading for L Magna. Hoplite arrives and fortifies.

950BC
Finish Philosophy, start Code of Laws.
Utica completes Hoplite, fortify and start swordsman.
Theveste finished Hoplite (fortify), start another one.
Sabratha completes Hoplite, sent to L Magna. Start new one.
Check Military advisor, we have a strong military compared to Monte.

925BC
Carthage completes Barracks, start new Hoplite.
Hoplite reaches L Magna, sent to engage Jag warrior and wins.
Three Hoplites from Utica, along with the archer, advance on Teot...

900BC
Archer approaching Hippo. Move hoplite from last turn to intercept.
Archer attacks Teot... - promoted to Veteran after killing their first spearman.
Will attack more next turn.
Monte still not offering good terms.

875BC
Carthage completes Hoplite, start Archer.
Hoplite to Utica.
L Minor completes archer, start another.
Archer to Theveste.
Archer attacks archer outside of Teot... - wins.
All Hoplites move to follow the archer.
Hoplite moves to protect worker.

850BC
Horseman completed in L Magna, start another.
Horseman attacks and kills Jag Warrior outside of Utica.
Archer attacks Teot... - falls, defended promoted.
Regular Hoplite attacks Teot... - falls, but defender redlined.
Veteran Hoplite attacks Teot... - Teot overrun and destroyed.

My my, his capital sure does look nice sitting over there...

825BC
Code of Laws learned, move on to The Republic.
Carthage completes Archer, start another.
Spend turn preparing stacks. Will take several turns for everyone to hook up.
Abe has been sneaking a settler through my land. Tell him to get out or face Hoplite death.

Monte begs for peace. I tell him to go stuff it.

800BC
Disorder in Carthage. Damn it. Lux to 20%, Tech to 80%.
Utica finishes swordsman, sent to meet approaching archer. Start Horseman.
Theveste completes Hoplite (fortify). Start another horseman.
Hippo completes Hoplite, start horseman.
Hoplite also to intercept archer.

775BC
Hoplite kills archer.
Swordsman diverted to help with attack on Monte's capital.

Rival check -
Monte (Furious) - screw him. 4 cities, does not have Philosophy or Literature.
Hiawatha (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Phil, Code, Or Lit.
I trade World maps with him.
Abe (Annoyed) - 4 cities, does not have Phil or Lit.
I trade world maps with him.
Xerxes (Annoyed) - 5 citied, does not have Phil, Code, Lit, or Poly.
I trade world maps with him.

-----End Turn 90-----

Monte's capital will fall soon. :D

775BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Nightfang_QSC_C2r_bc775.sav)
1025BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Nightfang_QSC_C2r_bc1025.sav)
1275BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Nightfang_QSC_C2r_bc1275.sav)

Takeo

Feb 19, 2003, 09:39 PM

Turnlog 1500-775BC

--Turn 1--
Made on change before hitting enter on my 1525BC save.
Changed Carthage from spartan to barracks.

1500BC
Hippo builds chariot-starts chariot, Leptis Minor builds
worker-starts spartan, change sabratha to warrior

1475BC
Carthage builds barracks-starts chariot, Leptis Magna
builds settler-starts warrior

1400BC
Theveste builds settler-starts spartan, Oea founded
spartan started

1375BC
Discovered Map Making, stopped research to make gold for
upgrades. Carthage builds chariot-starts chariot.
Traded Map Making and Mathematics to aztecs for world
map, Philosophy and 24g. Traded Math and Map Making to
Persia for Mysticism, world map and 20g. Traded
Mysticism to Iroguois for world map and 23g.

1350BC
Leptis Magna builds warrior-start warrior. Can see tip
of another continent near Iroguois, changing Oea from
spartan to galley. Traded Math to America for
Horseback Riding. Upgraded one chariot.
Hadrumetum founded-warrior started.

1325BC
Upgraded chariot to horseman. Iron is being hooked
up now, to upgrade some warriors. Going to assault
the southlands first. As of right now, there are
only 4 cities to take. Turned Science slider back
up to 30% on Literature.

1275BC
Carthage builds horseman-starts horseman. Sabratha
builds warrior-starts warrior. Pop-rush spartan in
Rusicade.
--End of Turn 1--

--Turn 2--
1250BC
Hippo builds horseman-starts spartan. Rusicade builds
spartan-starts settler. Upgrade chariot to horseman.

1225BC
Utica builds spartan-starts settler. Leptis Magna
builds warrior-starts spartan. Upgrade chariot to
horseman & 4 warriors to swordsman.

1200BC
Carthage builds horseman-starts spartan. Leptis Minor
builds spartan-starts swordsman.

1150BC
Carthage builds spartan-starts swordsman. Sabratha
builds warrior-starts spartan.

1125BC
Pop-rushed galley in Oea.

1100BC
Oea builds galley-starts archer. Hadrumetum builds
warrior-starts swordsman. Upgrade warrior. Declared
war on Persia, killed warrior escorting settler.

1075BC
Carthage builds swordsman-starts horseman. Upgrade
two warriors. Attack Arbela, kill warrior and
swordsman goes elite.

1050BC
Utica builds settler-starts horseman. Hippo builds
spartan-starts swordsman. Capture Washington-lose
1 horseman, 2 others wounded. Destroyed Arbela.
--End of Turn 2--

--Turn 3--
1000BC
Carthage builds swordsman-starts swordsman.
Americans destroyed, neoCarthage enters Golden
Age. Leptis Magna and Theveste changed to
swordsman. Sabratha changed to horseman.

975BC
Meet Greeks and trade Philosophy, Map Making and
Math for world map, 60g and contact with chinese
and germans. Trade Map Making and Philosophy to
China for 60g and world map. Trade Writing to
Germans for 4g and world map.

950BC
Carthage & Leptis Magna build swordsman and
start one.

925BC
Literature discovered-start Code of Laws.
Theveste builds swordsman-starts swordsman.
Carthage changed to horseman.

900BC
Carthage builds horseman-starts horseman.
Hippo & Leptis Minor build swordsman- start
swordsman. Destroyed Pasagadae. Susa Destroyed.
Found center island with barb workers on it.

850BC
Carthage and Sabratha build horseman-start
horseman. Oea changed to settler.

800BC
Discovered Code of Laws, trade to aztecs for
20g. Carthage & Utica build horseman-start
horseman. Leptis Magna builds swordsman-starts
swordsman.

775BC
Hippo builds swordsman-starts swordsman.
army ready to go north from 3 spots now.
--End of Turn 3--

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc1275.SAV

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc1025.SAV

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc775.SAV

Ronald

Feb 20, 2003, 02:59 AM

I am wondering why so many people are going for quick tech development in a domination game.
After getting iron working
and horseback riding I try to slow down the tech development and conquer the continent with swordsmen and horsemen.

The other continent should also be possible to start with sword-horse combination and finish off with knights.

zenga

Feb 20, 2003, 04:24 AM

@Ronald

I don't normally play too many conquest or domination games so I'm learning as I go along here. I agree with your point about slowing research - but only for the AI's.

As soon as I got Iron Working I made sure to deny the Aztecs, Persia and America the resource. The best unit they will have in early times will be the horseman, although I'll have to watch the Iroquois! As it is just now, the best defence the other civs (on the home continent) will be able to muster before Gunpowder are spearmen.

Other than that my strategy has been, after the initial trading of techs the AI's had, to research like mad and only trade them techs for the purposes of gaining tech (infrequently), bankrupting them to stunt future research and obtaining maps while keeping mine 'hidden' to them.

In the meantime, one reason for waiting a bit is to allow their cities to grow a little so that few are auto-razed. If you read my next report I didn't quite manage that with the Aztecs! :lol:

zenga

Feb 20, 2003, 04:40 AM

Zenga Turns 61 - 90

1500BC(61)

AI capital borders expand leaving a scouting party in Aztec lands.

1475BC(62)

Monty's worker scarpers and he asks us to leave. We tell him to calm down, although it will take a few turns to leave.

Leptis Minor founded NNE of Carthage, start temple (subject to change).

1450BC(63)

Not a peep from Monty. He's first on the list of 'things to do'.

Hippo builds galley, start temple. Galley heads to sea with the intention of finding new lands. There is definitely lands NW of the Iroquois nation, but we will look first to the E and S looking for safe waters to other lands. Hopefully this will give us an indication of whether the Lighthouse is needed for our goals to be accomplished.

1425BC(64)

Carthage build hoplite, start settler. Theveste build barracks, start sword.

1400BC(65)

Monty finally kicks us out.

Leptis M builds sword, start sword. Utica builds hoplite, start settler.

1375BC(66)

Sci down to 50%, Currency in 2. Americans have Mapmaking, not worth it to sell to others though.

1350BC(67)

Carthage builds settler, start hoplite. Settler heads with escort SW, will settle near small lake on coast towards American border.

Trade Iroquois Mapmaking for 50g and WM. Barb camp spotted NW of Utica.

1325BC(68)

Currency researched, start Construction at 100% (due in 11).

Hoplite and warrior sent towards barb camp and meet barb on the way.

1300BC(69)

Barb loses to hoplite. Hoplite and warrior at camp next turn. Settler in place for city next turn.

1275BC(70)

Sabratha founded, start warrior. Warrior and hoplite defeat warrior and horse and disperse camp for 25g.

Zenga 1275BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc1275.sav)

1250BC(71)

Carthage builds hoplite, start settler. Utica builds settler, start temple. Leptis M builds sword, start sword.

Settler heads N and W of Utica to desert near floodplains.

1225BC(72)

Iroquois have Philosophy, won't trade Currency for it yet.

1200BC(73)

Theveste builds sword, start sword.

Rusicade founded, start temple. Lux up to 10% as Carthage is size 7.

1175BC(74)

Carthage builds settler, start sword. Settler heads towards Rusicade area. Lux back to 0%, sci 100%.

1150BC(75)

Trade Maths to Aztecs for a worker.

1125BC(76)

An American warrior/settler pair come into our territory. Leave them just now.

1100BC(77)

Leptis M builds sword, start GLH (may be vetoed later).

Galley enters Persian waters in the south. Establish embassy with Xerxes and make an ROP arrangement.

Sci down to 70%, Construction in 1.

1075BC(78)

Construction researched, start Polytheism at 100% (due in 6).

Carthage builds sword, start settler. Temple whipped in Hippo.

Trade Iroquois Currency for Philosophy, WM and 20g.
Trade America Phil for WM and 25g. Trade Persia Phil for WM.

1050BC(79)

Hippo builds temple, start harbour.

1025BC(80)

Oea founded, start sword. Sabratha sword whipped then swap to temple.

Trade Persia Currency and Mapmaking for Code of Laws and WM.

Zenga 1025BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc1025.sav)

1000BC(81)

Carthage builds settler, start sword. Settler heading E to far hill surrounded by mountains. Theveste builds sword, start temple.

975BC(82)

Declare war on the Aztecs and move a stack of swords over the border to attack Teotihuacan next turn. Town immediately goes from size 2 to size 1.

950BC(83)

Teo taken after swords defeat both defending spears, 1 resistor. Sci down to 60%, Poly in 1.

925BC(84)

Polytheism researched, start feudalism at 100% (due in 13).

Resistance ends in Teo. Temple whipped in Leptis m. Hadrumetum founded, start warrior.

900BC(85)

Leptis m builds temple, start court. Temple whipped in Utica. Teo riots, set taxman.

875BC(86)

Order restored in Teo. Utica builds temple, start settler. Swords outside Tenochtitlan.

850BC(87)

2 spears defeated at Teno for the loss of a sword. There is 1 resistor.

Road near Sabratha completes giving us a trade route with America. Trade Currency for Incense.

825BC(88)

Resistance in Teno over, set taxmen. Carthage builds settler, start horse.

800BC(89)

Teno size 1. Hippo switched to galley.

775BC(90)

Temple whipped in Sabratha and partial whipped in Oea.

Swords moved in place at Texcoco.

Germans found a city across the water from the Iroquois, should have sent the galley straight there! Contact in ~2 or 3 turns.

Zenga 775BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc775.sav)

Nightfang

Feb 20, 2003, 07:30 AM

Why go for techs? Simple, to get ahead.

Most important to me is to get off Despotism. I dive for Republic to get a decent government and to have a good bargaining chip. I should go for Monarchy since I am faced with a lot of warfare, but I don't plan on WW being too much of a problem.

Most of my rivals have a good tech pace, though I am pulling ahead among my rivals on this landmass. Monte is in his GA, and Xerxes will be in his as soon as he can field an Immortal against a non barbarian opponent.

My plan is to be at Chivalry long before anyone else, and then my knights will run all over my piece of land, and then I will begin moving onto the next lands. There is a simple gap to negotiate to get over to the other lands, nothing a galley bridge cannot handle.

If I have knights when the rest of them don't, I can blaze through them pretty quickly.

PattonTwo

Feb 20, 2003, 12:31 PM

Well I am certainly learning that there is a lot more I need to learn! I think I will gain much from this QSC as I'm lagging behind in the lagging behind Regents group.

I have no problem developing and winning games on most every level (deity excluded right now), but clearly as the last player in the regents group (and 3 cities compared to an average of 6) I've got a lot of room for improvement in my start up.

Thanks for the detailed summary Cracker!

stwils

Feb 20, 2003, 02:15 PM

Patton Two,

I think it may be a toss up between the two of us as to who is lagging the most behind. :)

This is a great learning experience for me playing these QSC games. Cracker is generous to help us with his analysis and charts.

Good luck going forward.

stwils:thumbsup:

Singularity

Feb 21, 2003, 01:26 AM

Cracker.

Even at full research you're hard pressed to get to chivalry by 170BC on regent difficulty. I played the final 30 rounds this night, and all the other civs wheren't even in this game at all regarding techs and infrastructure. How about making it a 150 turn challenge? :) j/k

Skyfish

Feb 21, 2003, 04:00 AM

First 10 turns : Finally make contact with all other Civs !
Next 10 : build up for War vs America and Persia.
Final 10 : Destroy most of America and Persia, capture a wonder.

1500bc : Last settler produced and switch to rax due in 10. Carth on Hoplite instead of horseman.
1475bc : American settler going toward us, Temple whipped in Utica. Worker bought from Monte for 30g.
1450bc : still no deals around.
1375bc : Establish embassies everywhere (except Persia) for aro. 100g. Settler due in 5 turns in Washington, will time my attack accordingly.
1350bc : Utica's borders expand putting pressure on Teotihuacan
1325bc : Leptis Minor found in North on hill by river, horse and Iron.
1300bc : Finally contact with Greece because a settler showed up on the end of their continent. I am up HB and Math. Exchange : contact with Aztec, Iro and Persia for contact with Germany and China.
China : down writing, hb and math, sell contact with Iro for 27g (all their gold). Germans up hb and math, sell contact with Iro and Persia for all their gold 52.
Sell contact with China and greece to America for all their gold (32). Everyone broke, I got 575g.
ibt : Currency discovered going for Poly due in 9 (at 90%), Iros building Oracle.
1275bc : Aztecs building Oracle.

My Science Gambit (TM) is not really paying off, the AIs are soooo slow ... I am really not used to this.
The purpose of it was to try to stick with the Emperor guys, just to try something out, I can slow it back down once I will be at war in order to make for easier domination.
________
1250bc : Aztecs and iros have Map Making and America has Math. So I exchange Math for MM and trade around WM.
1225bc : Poly due in 6.
1175bc : Preparing for offensive, making warriors and horseman, will get Iron hooked up soon for upgrade. Trade MM around again. Establish embassies everywhere except Persia.
1125bc : Iron hooked up in 3 turns ! getting ready for the big upgrade.
1100bc : My stack of 5 vet horseman by New York refuse to leave, war is declared on America. We discover Poly and go for Monarchy.
Lose on horseman but get one promo to Elite and capture New York. Pause science for a bit to get 28gpt.
1075bc : One of my warrior defends against a Vet american warrior in my territory.
1050bc : upgrade 11 warriors to swordsman.
1025bc : moving "Swordsmen of Doom" to Washington. Science back to 90%
________
1000bc : Persepolis completes The Oracle. Thanks ! Sword kills American warrior, upgrade to Vet. Philo available, not interested yet.
975bc : American archer wounds my Elite horseman, but I raze Boston.
925bc : Moving forces to take Washington and got to Persia.
900bc : kill 1 spear with my horseman, another vet sword takes Washington they are down to 1 city.
875bc : moving towards Pasargadae
850bc : Elite horse kills archer, we destroy Pasar and get 2 workers, one promo from reg sword to vet. Still only 1 horse casualty.
825bc : Troops by Persepolis.
800bc : We capture Persepolis and its Oracle, 2 resisters, pop 4, will let it starve as it is far from my capital. Trade Code of laws + 43g for Polytheism to China. Turn around and trade to other AIs to make some cash. Also acquire Philo.
775bc : Moving SOD back towards Aztecs. Should get there in 5 turns or so. Americans and Persia only have 1 town left each and as they are on pop 1, some my forces surround them I might wait until they grow in order to not auto raze them and save the settlers.

The war has gone really well and now it's just a race against the clock to go back up North and :hammer: the Aztecs. I overestimated their defences, build up too long and now am stuck with too many forces too far down south.
Will start slowing the Tech pace down now as I do not want to see pikes before I take at least the Aztecs (and maybe my continent...). I have Monarchy due in 4 now I think.

I must say I never played Regent, when I bought Civ3 I played a few games at Warlord and then moved to Monarch but now play most games at Emperor or Deity, so I am a bit surprised at the weakness of the AI and probably was too slow at going to war.
I forgot to email Cracker telling him which level I wanted to play at
:rolleyes:
Still Nightfang, Zenga and Zagnut have better games than me so I still need to learn. I have very small experience with early domination games.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hannibaline_of_the_Carthaginians,_1025_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hannibaline_of_the_Carthaginians,_1275_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hannibaline_of_the_Carthaginians,_775_BC.SAV

PattonTwo

Feb 21, 2003, 12:34 PM

PattonTwo Final Report

570bc. 3 turns from Monarchy. Building swordsmen. That’s all.
510bc. My warrior makes it over to the end of the continent and I can finally “see” the Greeks. I make contact. Trade Greece contact with all I know but Persia, for contact with Germany, China, and Code of Laws + $12. Germany gets contact with all but America for their World Map and $84. China gets the Aztecs and Iroquois for their WM and $76. I take the Aztecs $20 for my WM. America gets contact with Germany for a Worker they have, I keep contact with China for now. Finally I take the $67 the Iroquois have for my WM. All in all, a great round!
450bc. I finish my revolt and enter Monarchy. I can produce $27 gpt right now. The Republic is only 17 turns away. I wonder if I should have even bothered with the revolt… I start towards Republic. I’d like to get to Republic, finish my revolution and then trigger my Golden Age.
370bc. Still growing. I can buy Literature for $85 from Greece, but I don’t. I’ll need all my cash for now. China, Germany and Persia are the most backward nations. Greece and America the most advanced.
190bc. I discover The Republic. If I were playing this out I’d revolt, then go to war.
170bc. As the QSC is almost over, I don’t bother with the revolution to The Republic. In my anxiousness to get into Monarchy, I didn’t wait the couple more turns to meet Greece and see how close to Republic I would be. I’m up to 10 Swordsmen (1 due next turn), 1 Hoplite and 1 Horseman (1 more of each due in 4 and 3 turns). I also have a Settler and a Worker at the front to fill in the gap created when I take out Texcoco. I’ll try for my UU victory asap, and then enjoy the Golden Age. I trade for Literacy and Construction (why not…) and sell my WM to everyone. While I didn’t do that well in the QSC, the game is easily in hand.

I did have the loss of two settlers in 1 turn back in 1875bc, which is somewhat the cause of my low QSC results. However, I’m sure that I will learn from others here.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/170bc.JPG
170bc.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc570.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc370.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc170.sav

stwils

Feb 21, 2003, 04:46 PM

Sorry, Cracker et al,

I've been tied up with business things the last few days and have not gotten to my turns. Will try to get them done tonight or in the morning.

stwils

Ronald

Feb 22, 2003, 03:54 AM

After destroying the American, Persian and Aztec empire the last session, this one was about conquering the remaining bits of my continent and get a foothold on the other one:

The timeline goes as follows:

750 BC destroy cattaraugus
730 BC capture niagara falls
650 BC fund cities of nora and russadir
630 BC found city of sulcis; destroy city of allegheny
570 BC found city of saldae; capture salamanca; Golden age starts ( the GA is timed to last untill turn 120)
550 BC found city of carthago novo
510 BC found city of malakka
450 BC capture grand river, iroquoise are destroyed, the continent is mine.
I had no luck despite numerous fightings with elite units no GL i really wanted to build the FP near salamanca so no chance for a real early domination
370 BC chinese land on my continent, so I declare war against them get alliance with greece (I don't want to fight their hoplites anyway) and code of laws for polytheism and currency; found city of calaris on other continent. This will become my war base
290 BC declare war on germany
270 BC capture Munich
190 BC found city of lol :-); found city of rusguniae; capture city of hamburg
170 BC End of the 120 turns

According to mapstat, I am 410 tiles away from domination limit. With my swordsmen and horsemen, I will be able to destroy Germany totally and most probably also conquer China. This will be enough for domination. So no knights necessary.

bc570 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc570.sav)
bc370 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc370.sav)
bc170 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Ronald_QSC_C2r_bc170.sav)

Ronald

Feb 22, 2003, 03:59 AM

This is a view of the final map:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/170BC.JPG

It was fun to play.

Ronald

stwils

Feb 22, 2003, 09:52 AM

turns 61-70 (1525bc-1275bc)

1525bc
Leptis Magna gets Warrior/set barracks
moved both settlers
sent archer toward barb

Enter*
settlers move - uh oh - there's a barb near the one in the south
archer kills barb in the sw

1475bc
workers road toward new city

1450bc
archer is elite but wounded. Moves near settler

1425bc
Theves founded
archer moves inside Theves to heal
Hippo founded

1400bc
Carthage gets swordsman/set another
swordsman moves towards unprotected Hippo
workers move to road more

1375bc
swordsman moves away from hippo to crouching barb

1350bc
swordsman kills barb near gold

1325bc
workers move to irrigate
wounded but victorious swordsman moves home to heal

1300bc
Carthage gets swordsman/set settler

1275bc
wrong buttons. workers move the wrong way :(

The save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc1275.sav

cracker

Feb 22, 2003, 10:31 AM

I see that several players have jumped ahead to fully completing play to turn 120 and that's fine.

I am unavoidably pulled away with other commitments today and may not get the next data table completed and up until sometime on Sunday. I apologize for the delay. This game has some very interesting aspects that we can compare between the Regent and Emperor progressions and it will be interesting to ask each player in the end to summarize what they think they may have learned on two levels: 1) individual play issues 2) big picture issues that help understand the differences between Regent and Emperor.

stwils

Feb 22, 2003, 10:51 AM

1275bc-1025bc

Iriquois are stronger than we are. But we are 2nd

1250bc
set Hippo to worker
other workers mine

1225bc

1200bc
Carthage gets settler/ set swordsman
Move settler into Lepto magna

1175bc
Hippo gets worker/set swordsman
new settler moves toward west coast
warrior from Theives comes down to protect
we trade maps with Persia

1150bc
Utica gets swordsman/set another
We have Map Making (forgot to write it earlier)
warrior moves to settler to protect

1125bc
we trade territory maps with the Aztecs
warrior and settler move together

1100bc
Carthage gets swordsman/set temple
warrior and settler see an Aztec warrior facing a Persian warrior and move out of the way

1075bc
Leptis Magna gets barracks/ set archer
the aztec warrior killed the persian warrior and both seem gone
moved warrior and settler - and they were not GONE. Now there are more where we were hoping to build
one of our swordsmen come to reinforce settler

1050bc
Leptis Minor founded
warrior is sentried
we irrigate Hippo
workers from Leptis Major move to Leptis Minor

1025bc
we trade territory maps with Lincoln
workers road

The save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc1025.sav

Singularity

Feb 22, 2003, 11:19 AM

OK, then I might just post my last 30 turns as well.
BTW, awesome progression there Ronald. Mucho impressive.

----

Last C2r report: 750BC-170BC:

I will stop making detailed description of worker action now, and partially stop noting unit production. Only major roadlinkups or other gameimpacting actions will be noted.

Turn 91 750BC: I'm still in anarchy after my revelution last round. Aztec settler and archer spotted two tiles N of SM fortified at hill 3 tiles NW of Sa. Move SM W to forest to block any aztec city founding near hill in mntn. Move units closer to Washington(Wa). I had to aquire knowledge how to not raze half the cities I attack, like I did against NY. So I turn to the newbie thread in general forum. Apperantly a city will remain intact as long as there is any culture in that city. That means I have to take capitols, and keep going where they move the capitols. I now have 2 SM, 1 SH and 1 HM 2 tiles NE of Wa. 2 SM and 1 HM 3 tiles NE of Wa, and 1 SH 4 tiles NE of Wa.

Turn 92 730BC: Aztec found Tlaxcala 7 tiles NE of Car. Move SM towards Sa to fortify there.

Turn 93 710BC: We're now in a monarchy. Capture Washington, kill three spears there. 1 SM promoted to vet. 1 HM retreats with 1HP, SH kills a spear - we enter a golden age. Am worker captured 1 tiles W of Wa. Increase science to 50%, math in 4 rounds. Gotta get on the science train if I wanna reach chivalry. Change prod at Car, Thev, LMa and LMI to library. Change prod at Utica to settler. Order Temple built in Wa. Next target is persepolis on the SW end of my continent. Gotta send a HM to the Westpoint of our continent to see if he can spot a greek unit around Corinth.

Turn 94 690BC: Elite SM kills persian spear and capture a settler giving us 2 new slaves 3 tiles NE of Wa.

Turn 95 670BC: HM finished at Hippo, send him towards Cape West of our continent. Settler finished at Utica, order Library. Persian HM attacks one of our SM S of Wa, he retreats with 1HP. An elite SM follows and kills him.

Turn 96 650BC: Americans sue for peace, I agree and get phillidelphia and 20G. I got a strange riot msg in Hippo, but that city has 2 happy and 2 unhappy citizens - should be fine. Another persian HM attacks one of my SM, he retreats, and I kill it with one of my HM. America has one city left, Boston.

Turn 97 630BC: Granary finished at Sa, order library. Math researched, start Currency at 80% sci, finished in 5 turns.

Turn 98 610BC: Car build Library, start SM. LMi builds library, start SM. Founded Rusicade at ruins of NY, order temple. I now have incense added to my luxuries. Finished linkinig the three persian cities with roads to my empire.

Turn 99 590BC: Persian archer commits suicide on one of my elite SM, my SM has 1hp left.

Turn 100 570BC: 2 aztec archers enter my territory on tile N of Hippo. I tell him to back off, he declares war. Move SM down from mnt W and kill one of the archers, move SH from LMa to Hippo. SM built in Wa, order HM. Move SM from car to LMa. SM built in LMi, order HM in LMi, move SM from LMi to LMa. SAVE MADE.

Turn 101 550BC: Attack Persepolis, loose 1 SH - kills two spearmen. One archer with 2HP left in Persep. SM in hippo attack archer on mnt W of Hippo - he dies. Fortify SH in Hippo. Currency researched, start constr. at 70% science - finished in 5 rounds. Change orders at Thev, Utica, LMa and Car to marketplace. I now have 11 slaves and 2 workers working on my tiles.

Turn 102 530BC: Capture Persepolis, kill archer there with 1 HM. Fortify wounded units in the town. SM 2 tiles E of Persegaede killed by persian archer, kill that archer with SM . Xerxes move capitol to Susa. SM finished at LMi, order HM there. Order temple at Persepolis.

Turn 103 510BC: Excange territory maps with Iroq, HM is one turn away from Cape West. Kill two Aztec archers on mnt north of Hippo with 2 SM. Marcet finished at Thev, order library. Persian archer suicides on my SM 2 tiles W of Pas.

Turn 104 490BC: My HM finally reaches Cape West, and I did what Hiawata's feeble AI brain couldn't do in so many turns - I made contact with the Greece. I trade monarchy for contact with chineese, germans, worldmap and a whooping 27 gold. China is largest of the three, but sadly they're scientifically ignorants. It seems like I will get no help in researching chivalry in this game. I had to wast 33 shields switching from marcet to SM in Utica since Xerxes pushed an archer out of Arbela, 2 tiles NW of Utica. Ok, the idiots who tipped me off in the noob faq are dead. 2 SM attacks and destroys the persian capitol of Susa. I capture 3 persian slaves. I move one persian slave to the spices there to build a colony in the next round. I'll have to lie and cheat my way to some cities then, I get 2G and Arbela from Xerxes. Will attack Boston next.

Turn 105 470BC: Market finished at Car, order HM. HM finished at LMi, order new HM. Adjust science to 40%, construction in one turn.

Turn 106 450BC: Constr complete, start research on Code of laws. Science at 40% finished in 4 turns. Kill two aztec archers E and NE of LMa with HM and SM. All the other civs are annoyed or furious at me, except the greeks who are cautious.

Turn 107 430BC: My army grows, and my workers keep working the lands around my center cities. I now have 10 SM, 7 HM and 2 SH. Boston lies on a hill and will be tough to take but it will still fall in three turns.

Turn 108 410BC: Keep building HM now.

Turn 109 390BC: Market finished at hippo, order HM.

Turn 110 370BC: Abe is history as I capture Boston, I kill two spears and one archer - 1 HM promoted to elite, 1 HM dies. Code of laws researched, start feudalism. I'm doing a little gamble here, I give alexander four ancient techs so that he as a scientific civ get his freebie, monotheism. As soon as I have researched feudalism I will trade it for his monotheism at least I hope he will agree to that. Thus I will hurry my rush to Chivalry, but hand Alexander pikemen at the same time. But it's hardly likely that I will clean my continent and be able to land within the next 10 turns. I try to capture an aztec settler escorted by a spear on the hill 3 tiles NNW of Hippo. I loose one HM and another retreats with 1HP. SAVE MADE.

Turn 111 350BC: Major 'Whoops!'. 8 barbarian horsemen come from the lands W of my spice colony. I have to abandon Philly, while I change to SH in Wa and Rusicade - loose 27 shields on the action. Send reinforcements from the area to those two towns. Elite SM kills the Entruscan camp that spawned the barb HM 3 tiles W of my colony. Kill aztec spear and capture another 2 workers on hill 3 tiles NNE of Hippo, loose 1 elite SM. Capture Teotihuacan, loose 2 HM and kills one spear.

Turn 112 330BC: Our spice colony where overrun by a barb warrior. Barb horses have split in two and approach Wa and Rus.

Turn 113 310BC: Golden Age ends. The barb HM consentrated on Wash. I lost 1 SM, while all 8 barb HM died - SH upgraded from regular to elite. I now have 8 SM, 9 HM and 5 SH.

Turn 114 290BC: This is going nowhere fast. I'm approaching the aztec cities with my units - but I need another 30 turns to reach my goal of domination. The damn ignorant neighbours of mine havent even connected their cities with roads. Did you give the AI civs a sleeping pill in this game Cracker? I guess Xerxes is two turns away from annihilation.

Turn 115 270BC: My gambit payed off. I finish feudalism and trade it along with contact with the aztec and get monotheism from the greeks. Chivalry in 6 turns on 100% science :(. Oh well, I'll finish the game anyway to see how long It takes me to get to domination. Persia want my troops out of his territory. I tell him his days are numbered. He tries to kill a HM with an archer from across a river. My elite HM lives, his archer dies. I try to capture pasargaede, but loose one elite SM, and my vet HM must retreat. I now have 7 SM, 13 HM and 5 SH. 15 slaves and 2 workers.

Turn 116 250BC: Xerxes that bastard pillaged my horsetile. So now I must move roadbuilders at the front to reconnect them. My revenge is sweet however as I capture Pasargaede, 'so long Xerxes!', my elite SM kills a spear. Slave on way to colonize spices meet a barb camp. I send a SH to remove the mycenian camp, and secure the area for future barb settlements.

Turn 117 230BC: Try to capture Texoco, loose 1 HM and 1 SH. Declare war on Iroquois, kill warrior and steal two slaves on 2 SW tile of Hippo. Raze barb camp in the south with SH.

Turn 118 210BC: Capture Tenochtitlan, Loose 1 HM kills 2 spears - get 1 new slave. Try to capture Tlaxcala, loose 1 SH kills 1 spear. Raze Texoco, loose 1 SM. Build new colony on spices.

Turn 119 190BC: Raze Tlaxcala, kill spear with 1 HM.

Turn 120 170BC: Iroquois city of Cattaraugus is captured - HM kills spear. Aztec city of Tlateloloco is captured, only one Aztec city left now - HM kills spear. Can't do much more now. Final military count: 8 Swordsmen, 18 Horsemen and 3 spartan hoplites. Labourforce: 17 slaves, 2 workers. Final city count: 17. 1 turn to chivalry. My engine of war was finally going on all cylinders, but the bell has rung its final ring. FINAL SAVE MADE.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/SinguCarth170BC.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_570_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_370_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_170_BC.SAV

stwils

Feb 22, 2003, 11:44 AM

turns 81-90

1025bc
Trade world maps with Hiawatha

Enter*
1000bc
barb galley moves around
workers move to beaver
other worker finishes inrrigating and moves

975bc
workers road beaver
other worker in Hippo irrigates

950bc
Leptis Magna finishes archer/set to Temple
set archer to sentry

925bc
Carthage gets Temple/ set horseman
Theves gets worker/set archer (will change to swordsman after worker connects to the iron
worker moves to iron

900bc
all workers road!

875bc
sentried all military at Carthage - American warrior in our city!

850bc
We ask Lincoln to move his folks from our city - he does
workers road and mine

825bc
we get Code of Laws/ set Philosophy (we are on our way to the Republic)
sentry horseman in Carthage
workers mine

800bc
nothing

775bc
Utica gets swordsman/ set for another
road to iron in Thieves complete/ worker mines

the save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc775.sav

Skyfish

Feb 22, 2003, 02:35 PM

Hey Ronald I am probably blind but I can't find the your "middle" report.
In your last post you say you destroyed the Americans, Persians and Aztecs but I can't find your timeline ?????
How did you do it ?

Ronald

Feb 22, 2003, 05:14 PM

Hi Skyfish,

I was playing the first 90 turns in one go. You can find the saved games and the timeline on page 2 of this thread.

Ronald

Skyfish

Feb 23, 2003, 06:08 AM

Just a race around the clock to eliminate 3 AIs as fast as possible...

750bc : we take out the Persians and Susa is autorazed.
730bc : 2nd Palace extension. Move build orders around to settlers in order to fill the American/Persian gaps.
710bc : Monarchy found, no rev yet.
690bc : Waiting for Philadelphia to go to size 2, moving all my troops towards Aztecs.
630BC : We take Philadelphia and our forces move into Azteca...
610bc : we take Teo but lose one horse and a sword. Finally the Germans have Literature, exchange it for C of Laws and Philosophy.
570bc : Moving towards Tenoch, SoD of 7 swords + 3 horses.
_________
550bc : kill 1 Jag by Tenoch
530bc : Lose 1 horse and 1 vet sword but get 2 promo for reg to vet and take Tenoch.
510bc : Construction discovered -> we're in Middle Age ! Min Science on Engineering.
490bc : Try to take Tlatelco with 4 vet horseman, 2 die, 2 retreat with 1 HP and I only take 1 spearman AAAARRRGGGHH
470bc : I don't know if I can make it to control the whole continent before 170bc...
450bc : Troops moving towards Iros : 3 reg sword, 4 vet sword, 1 elite sword, 2 elite horseman, 4 vet horseman. I do have 5 to 6 horsemaen coming up soon though :)
_________
370bc : War declared on Iros. Allegheny taken. In ex-America, I fail to spot a barb who wrecks my Incense Colony and then I forget to kill him so next turn he kills one of my workers (slave though). REVENGE.
350bc : Niagara Falls to NeoCarthaginian troops.
310bc : get a message that the Iros are building the Pyramids ! Great... I am destroying them and they start a wonder with only 3 cities left.
290bc : As I fortify in front of Grand River, they let a settler pair covered by a warrior get out in front of my 8 horsemen ??? suicidal.
Buy WM around, just for Info. Germans have Monotheism, barb uprising coming soon ? good it's not Feudalism though. I have to time my invasion of the 2nd continent before htere are too many Pikes around.
270bc : We take out Salamanca at the loss of a single reg sword. Still absolutely no leader !
230bc : Just 3 aztec cities : 2 are very isolated in my territory and just one Iro city left.
210bc : we take Calix the Aztec capital, still no leader ! we auto raze an Aztec city by Carthage.
170bc : Oea founded in South. Only 1 city left of Iro and Aztec. The Iro city I did not take out this round because I want all my Elite to go after it in the hop eto get a Leader for the FP.
It 's taking me a few turns to round them up.
Now that my continent is secure I revolt to Monarchy. Draw 4 turns : cool ! I will then build up infrastructure, galleys and beeline for Knights.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish_QSC-C2r_bc170.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish_QSC-C2r_bc370.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Skyfish_QSC-C2r_bc570.SAV

zenga

Feb 23, 2003, 09:25 AM

Awesome game, Ronald. I should have expected as much after seeing some of your reports on the Tournament pages! I think I'm going to have to have a close look at your saves and try and figure out how you did it. :goodjob:

I know you did a mass warrior upgrade (by saving on research) but can you give any pointers on how you used your troops? My main difficulty in early warfare is how exactly to concentrate my forces and how to cover the distances involved.

Another question, for all the players, is how and when did you use the whip? Did you whip troops or mainly buildings? This is another area where I am inexperienced and would appreciate help. Personally, I mainly pop rush temples with maybe an occassional barracks, harbour or galley. Also, what changes do you make to this when going for a military victory condition?

Skyfish

Feb 23, 2003, 11:41 AM

Here is a view of my military and world in -170bc.

I am in Anarchy to revolt to Monarchy in 4 turns. I will go on playing the QSC to check what date I can complete Domination. I hope lots of us are doing the same so we can compare which tactics were better.

stwils

Feb 23, 2003, 11:44 AM

Turns 91-100

750bc
we trade maps with Iriquios
Carthage gets horseman/set swordsman
moved horseman
worker roads

730bc
fortify horseman

710bc
We get Philosophy/ set math
oops we are running out of iron
worker in leptis minor mines

690bc
Carthage gets swordsman/set another

670bc
fortify swordsman near Boston
worker roads
wake up SOD at Carthage and move towards Boston

650bc
SOD goes to border of Boston

630bc
We move into Boston

610bc
Lincoln asks us to move and we say NO
sentry military in Boston

590bc

570bc
more military sentried inside Boston
workers mine and road
We keep producing swordsmen

The save
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc570.sav

stwils

Feb 23, 2003, 12:49 PM

Turns 101-110

570bc
Carthage has 3 unhappy folks. Will keep an eye on this

550bc
Horseman and archer from Washington came up and killed our swordsman in Boston
we move and sentry other hopeful militia in Boston

530bc
The Americans capture Leptis Minor. (The war is not going very well )

510bc
We try to recapture Leptis Minor and our swordsman dies...

490bc
The Americans keep attacking us in Leptis Minor - our warrior dies...
Well, thank God our SOD finally takes Boston!
Boston disappears and our men are standing around trying to figure out what to do now

470bc
One more Amercan attacks us and is killed
Thieves is up in smoke and we give them a clown for now
We move some our wounded on our territory to heal

450bc
Order is restored in Thieves
BUT - the Americans attack our horseman and kills him
And they are moving into Leptis Manna
Our archer in Leptis Manna kills the Am. archer and is now elite
And we get rid of their wounded horseman
We change production in Carthage to settler

430bc
Our archer kills another American (Hmm. The war may be going better...)
We send soldiers from Thieves down. We want to take back Leptis Minor

410bc
We send troops into Leptis Minor
But a Persian seems to be going toward Carthage

390bc
Damn Persian settler built a city right on the spot - near Carthage. (Maybe we should have shot him last turn.)
Our settler is built and moves. But his mission to rebuild Boston is gone. Persian city is sitting there.

370bc
We send troop into Leptis Minor and fortify them
Our settler moves looking for a place to settle. (Damn Persians...)

The save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc370.sav

Ronald

Feb 23, 2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by zenga
I know you did a mass warrior upgrade (by saving on research) but can you give any pointers on how you used your troops? My main difficulty in early warfare is how exactly to concentrate my forces and how to cover the distances involved.

Another question, for all the players, is how and when did you use the whip? Did you whip troops or mainly buildings? This is another area where I am inexperienced and would appreciate help. Personally, I mainly pop rush temples with maybe an occassional barracks, harbour or galley. Also, what changes do you make to this when going for a military victory condition?

You are right: proper logistics is very important for early and quick warfare. I concentrated on building warriors (I had 17 after the first 60 turns and did a mass upgrade shortly after).
Having enough workers is the key. I always have enough workers (as soon as an AI offers a worker I buy them, but that will probably change with the high costs in PTW), that I get a road network right behind my troops.
Since the AI starve their cities back to size one very often, they rush a worker or two, they are yours when the city is auto-razed. Larger cities you have to decide whether to raze them, use the workers for building roads or leave the city intact. In conquest games it is always better to raze the cities, in a domination game, it depends on how many worker you already have and how long it takes to replace the razed site with your own city.

I almost never rush troops, only in extreme danger situations.
Normally I would rush a temple in conquered cities to get the people happy and build culture toprevent them from flipping, in domination games I rush a temple or a library, whatever is cheaper, also in own cities to cover more territory.
In this game basically all temples I had at the end where pop-rushed. I also rushed the galley, because I bougt mapmaking so late, that otherwise I would not have had enough time to start the invasion of the other continent.

Ronald

zagnut

Feb 23, 2003, 01:21 PM

Ronald:

I can't download any of your posts. I haven't had any trouble with any of the other person's posts. You said you had a problem in getting the uploads set up. Could you possibly try again with a couple of them. I would really like to see what you did to get such a successful result.

stwils

Feb 23, 2003, 01:44 PM

Turns 111-120

370bc
we swap world maps with the persians

350bc
We take back Lepsis Minor - but now the city disappears
Once again our men stand around trying to figure out what to do

330bc
Our settler moves to where Lepsis Minor used to be. (We'll rebuild this city!)

310bc
Leptis Minor rebuilt

290bc
We trade world maps with Aztecs

270bc
we move some swordsmen from Utica etc down nearer New York (that might be our next city to attack.)

250bc
We are not building anything but swordsmen right now.
move swords. nearer NY

230bc
we kill an American spearman wandering up

210bc
Lincoln wants to make peace. we say NO
Our wounded warrior kills Am. wounded horseman near
Am. archer near Philly kills our warrior

190bc
We move swordsmen into NY

170bc
We take NY! There is one resister.
We send in some troops to control trouble

The save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc170.sav

Ronald

Feb 23, 2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by zagnut
Ronald:

I can't download any of your posts. I haven't had any trouble with any of the other person's posts. You said you had a problem in getting the uploads set up. Could you possibly try again with a couple of them. I would really like to see what you did to get such a successful result.

I don't know whats wrong with the link, but you can go directly to the uploads3 folder and download it from there directly.
The files are named:

Ronald_QSC_C2r_bcnnnn.SAV

where nnnn is the year. I have checked, all files are there and I could download it from the folder without any problems.

Ronald

zagnut

Feb 23, 2003, 03:12 PM

OK, Ronald, thanks. I got the files that way.

Takeo

Feb 23, 2003, 08:50 PM

QSC C2r 570BC-170BC

--Turn 1--
750BC
Carthage builds horseman-starts settler. Rusicade builds settler-
starts horseman. Declare war on aztecs and move forces in.

730BC
Cadiz founded-warrior started. Teotihuacan captured-warrior
started. Aztec spearman took out two veteran swordsman-oach!
Traded Math, Philosophy and Literature to Germans for Polytheism.

710BC
Leptis Minor builds swordsman-start settler.

690BC
Carthage builds settler-start hoplite. Hippo builds swordsman-
start hoplite. Theveste builds swordsman-start settler.
Texcoco destroyed. Capture Persepolis-settler started.
Persians destroyed.

670BC
Utica builds horseman-start swordsman. Leptis Magna builds
swordsman-start settler. Oea builds settler-start swordsman.
Leptis Minor, Leptis Magna and Washington changed to temple.
Cirta founded-warrior started. Tlatelolco captured-warrior
started. Carthage changed to swordsman.

650BC
Rusicade builds horseman-start settler.

630BC
Carthage builds swordsman-start same. Sabratha builds horseman-
start settler. Hadrumetum builds swordsman-start settler.

570BC
Discovered Republic-start currency. Carthage builds swordsman-
start settler. Declared war on Iroguois. Nora founded-warrior
started. Rusiddir founded-warrior started. Tenochtitlan
captured-settler started. Make peace with Aztecs for
Construction and 14g.
--End of Turn 1--

--Turn 2--
550BC
Utica builds swordsman-start settler.

530BC
Hippo builds settler-starts same.

510BC
Carthage builds settler-start spartan.

490BC
Sulcis founded-warrior started.

470BC
Leptis Minor builds temple-start settler. Tenochtitlan
changed to temple.

450BC
Discovered Currency-start Feudalism. Leptis Magna builds
temple-start settler. Theveste builds settler-start same.
Sabratha builds settler-start same.

430BC
Carthage builds spartan-start library. Salamance captured-
temple started.

410BC
Oea changed to settler. Saldae founded-warrior started

390BC
Persepolis builds settler-start temple.

370BC
Rusicade builds settler-start swordsman. Rusiddir builds
warrior-start settler. Carthago Novo founded-warrior started.
Traded Currency and Construction to Germany for world map
and 30g to take them to next age. Traded Republic to
Germany for Monotheism.
--End of Turn 2--

--Turn 3--
350BC
Utica builds settler-start same. Hippo build settler-
start same. Malaca founded-warrior started.

330BC
Allegheny destroyed-Iroguois gone. Gades founded-warrior
started.

310BC
Washington builds temple-start spartan. Sabratha builds
settler-start same.

290BC
Tenochtitlan builds temple-start spartan. Carthage builds
library-start marketplace. Leptis Magna builds settler-
start same. Sulcis builds warrior-start settler. China
lands settler on MY island and I end up with two more
workers. Brought Germany in on war against China.

270BC
Cirta builds warrior-start settler.

230BC
Oea builds settler-start spartan. Declared war on Aztecs.
Capture Tlaxcala and destroy Aztecs-start spartan.
Calaris founded-warrior started.

210BC
Discovered Feudalism-start Chivalry.

190BC
Tingis founded-warrior started.

170BC
Lol founded-warrior started.

6 Barb workers captured on center island.
--End of Turn 3--

570BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc570.SAV)
370BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc370.SAV)
170BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc170.SAV)

zagnut

Feb 24, 2003, 09:39 PM

750 – Continuing war against Aztecs.
730 – Pyramids built in Carthage.
710 – Whip Barracks in Sabratha – my northernmost city - and on the edge of my current conquests. This is the first time since purchasing the game at Christmas 2001 that I have whipped an improvement or a unit.
690 – Aztecs destroyed. Declare war on Iroquois. Take their first town – Niagara Falls – which was their only town with a source of iron within its cultural area. The plan is to defeat the Iroquois as soon as possible and then defeat the Americans and the Persians. Decrease science and increase luxuries to head off unrest in Carthage.
630 – Having dispatched some pesky barbs, I am still rolling up the Iroquois. They are down to 4 towns, but the distance between them is great. Only spearman for defense. I will dispatch some Swordsmen to the American lands.
610 – Discover Republic but don’t switch while in middle of Iroquois war. Will switch when destroy Iroquois and move troops toward America and Persia. Then will use a Spartan to trigger Golden Age while in Republic.
570 – My army in the north is advancing on the Iroquois capital.

---End of turn 100---

550 – I split my northern forces and send Horsemen against the western cities which are only 1 pop. The Swordsmen will carry on to the capital. Hopefully this will hurry the downfall of the Iroquois a bit faster and allow my forces to turn their full attention to the Americans.
530 – The decision to split forces is a bad one. The western Iroquois towns are well defended and I lose 2 of my 4 Horsemen.
470 – Swordsmen take Iroquois capital. One Worker captured.
410 – War in north is taking longer than expected because of distances between cities. Decide to change government to Republic.
390 – The Americans take advantage of my Anarchy to declare war on me. This is probably a bad idea on their part.
370 – Unfortunately, I am not paying attention and the Americans capture Leptis Magna. I take it back the same turn. Forget to save at the end of 370 but save at the beginning of 350.

---End of turn 110---

350 – First American city falls.
330 – Golden Age triggered.
270 – Trade China Republic for Construction, World Map and all their gold (54). None of the other civs have any techs, luxuries or money. This annoys me so I declare war on Persia.
210 – Only Washington is left in America. The Persians are fighting hard and I doubt I will eliminate them before 170 BC.
170 – Persia proves pesky. But the situation is not in doubt. It will just take more time than General Cracker has provided.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc570.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc350.SAV (copied at beginning of 350BC instead of end of 370BC)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc170.SAV

The world at 170 BC:

Singularity

Feb 25, 2003, 12:39 AM

I've been reading through the reports and have a question to ask. Am I the only one who didn't get to trade after mapmaking? I got the starting techs of course like most did. But after I got mapmaking I bummed out totally on tech trade. None of the civ's where even close to trade anything with me. When I discovered the other continent they where all 3-4 techs behind me! So I resorted to giving greece 4 techs so that I could trade for his freebie in the middle age.

My gambit in this game was to get as soon as possible to Chivalry and run the last cities down on the starting continent. But with absolutely no AI techs to help me along it was just impossible to achieve that(I was 1 turn from chivalry in 170BC).

Otherwise I wonder what decides when a horseman retreats after loosing. I found that it happened in 50% of the cases, so I guess that's the generic chances for it to happen.

Otherwise I commend Ronalds strategy for waiting to link iron to his cities. I also had a sizeable surplus in gold most of the game, but I only upgraded 3 warriors. The rest of my Swords where made from scratch. Filling up fast with cities is another golden move. Not too dense, but also not too far when that corruption eliminates any chances of making a few shields pr turn. I failed to make the 'inner ring of cities' complete when I didn't expand southwards to the jungle south of the starting position. In effect that mean I lost 20% of my most productive cities for the entire game. I could easily have cleared a few of those jungletiles and had a nice little city going there early in the game. I also noted that no one in the Regent group seemed to get a GL and that all saved the GA to the last 30 rounds or so. Any other comments on what made your game successfull or broke is welcomed since it seems we will be waiting a while for the hard stats from Cracker.

----

I made a picture to show how I would've settled my cities to get that zero corruption inner ring, and an outer low corruption ring.
I made a new pic that more clearly shows the surrounding are around cart.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/singuC2r1575BC.JPG
That would've given me 12 cities instead of 7-8. Of course I would miss out on the juicy spots next to rivers and lakes. But seeing as my cities didn't go above size 6 except for a few cases, that was no consern in this short gamescope

zagnut

Feb 25, 2003, 08:13 AM

Nice graphic, Singularity. In theory I guess I agree with you. The placement of cities should be as you describe. However, when we are developing our cities we don't have the hindsight you now possess. Decisions are made because of the "darkness" that are not always the best. For instance, I moved Carthage one square to start. If I had left it in the original position I would have had the elephants within the city boundary.

Also, you sometimes want to form a city in a particular place to deny a resource or a luxury to your competitors.

I try not to hold to a certain formula with regard to the placement of my cities. I like to expand as quickly as possible and get as many resources as possible. Sometimes this means that I will form a city far away from my central core and fill in later. This may not be the best way to maximize my score, but I think it is more fun.

Skyfish

Feb 25, 2003, 09:30 AM

Yes I do exactly the same reg. city placement Zagnut !
Nicer to place next to resource, river (avoid the acqueduct is major boost), lux, etc...none of that OCP crap ;)

Singularity

Feb 25, 2003, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by zagnut

Decisions are made because of the "darkness" that are not always the best. For instance, I moved Carthage one square to start. If I had left it in the original position I would have had the elephants within the city boundary.

Also, you sometimes want to form a city in a particular place to deny a resource or a luxury to your competitors.

I try not to hold to a certain formula with regard to the placement of my cities. I like to expand as quickly as possible and get as many resources as possible. Sometimes this means that I will form a city far away from my central core and fill in later. This may not be the best way to maximize my score, but I think it is more fun.

Originally posted by Skyfish
Yes I do exactly the same reg. city placement Zagnut !
Nicer to place next to resource, river (avoid the acqueduct is major boost), lux, etc...none of that OCP crap.

Yes, but my makeup includes at least 2 warriors pr city, so that would eliminate the need for early luxury. I know that the knowledge now makes it easy to overlook my ignorance at the start, but I'll try to recapture what I knew through the initial rounds:

1. I founded my city to the forest SW of start pos. Fairly soon I knew I had cattle by the river SE of car. BTW, I will never again miss out on making that early granary like i did. If I would encounter a similar situation I would've allmost certainly made my second city SE of the cattle. That way I could micromanage the tiles as I produced settlers or workers, and get two fairly desent settler factories up and moving fast.

2. Granted I thought as you did skyfish with regards to size 6+ cities before construction. But such aggressive games like this will allmost certainly exclude much growth beyond size 6. I see that instead I fell victim to impairing corruption in some of my cities, like the one I founded quite early on the fur.

3. Iron tiles where not discovered untill I had at least a few good cities up and running. My move to capture the three visible irontiles would have been the same if had gone with the tight build or strategic build that I actually made. And as I said I would wait to link iron untill I had a good army of warriors to be upgraded.

That 33-50% and even 25% corruption bites quite deep into your early strength, I just say that in this particular case, and any other early conquest scenarios - making tight cities will help you to swiftly reach a size where you can stop defending your cities and go on the offensive.

However, what's particulary hard with this build is that the infrastructure will have to be micromanaged carefully as each city produce a settler, worker or whip a temple. For a long time all the cities will share improved tiles as they grow and diminish in the early settler rush, that's one of the basic things that the progress of seasoned and clever civ'ers look like an impossible task for new players - micromanagement skills, I've more than once thought "That growth is just impossible - he must've gotten nothing but wandering nomads from the goodie huts!". I have a hard enough time keeping my cities from rioting in the early game.

Going for an infinite city sprawl build might not be as entertaining as capturing early luxuries and claiming 'sweet spot's' on the map, but IMO it's the right tool for this game and the start conditions our settler had with a fair ammount of land on all sides.

zagnut

Feb 25, 2003, 11:11 AM

You are probably right that an infinite city sprawl was better for this game because the game had a limited purpose. None of us were in it for the long haul.

Ronald

Feb 25, 2003, 02:14 PM

It's quite interesting to read the different opinions about early city placement, so I want to share my thoughts as well.

The goal was domination on a small map, therefore, I thought I need a good settler factory with settlers every 5 to 6 turns I dedicated my capitol to this task by building the early granary(interestingly enough it seems I am the only one choosing my starting location). For early warfare the difference between regular and veteran units is very important, so I built in the next three cities barracks immediately.

General I go for a relatively dense build, placing my cities on hills next to river (no aqueduct, defensive bonus using the most worthless tile for the city center). Connecting resources and luxuries are in my opinion more important than a theoretical optimal city placement.

For the given 120 turns, I think my strategy was very well suited. It would be very interesting for me although, whether to wait longer for the irst wars and then proceed quicker with knights is giving a better time for actual domination.
If I have time enough, I am trying to play my game till actually reaching domination. If I am able to do it, I will post my result in this thread. Maybe others could do as well.

Ronald

zagnut

Feb 25, 2003, 02:28 PM

I also gave the start some thought and decided to build 2 settler factories and 2 barracks cities. Unfortunately my second settler factory didn't turn out too well.

I also wondered whether to start a war early or late. I chose late and invaded to the north. You apparently invaded earlier than I and to the south first. You ended with a better result than I, so all things being equal (which they never are), early was better.

It would be nice if we could see how the Emperors are doing. I wonder what the thinking is over there. They all seem reluctant to post their final 30 turns. Maybe there is a $10,000 prize that we don't know about and no one wants to reveal their ending until Cracker has posted the interim stats.

Ronald

Feb 25, 2003, 02:51 PM

Maybe after reading our posts at the regent level they don't want to post their slow progress ;) ;) ;)

Singularity

Feb 25, 2003, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Ronald
If I have time enough, I am trying to play my game till actually reaching domination. If I am able to do it, I will post my result in this thread. Maybe others could do as well.

Ronald

I was originally going to let the game be as it was in 170BC. But I decided to see how long it would take me to reach domination, I would've guessed max 30 rounds, but it took me 45 rounds to eat enough tiles, surprisingly many as I thought I had it after 35 rounds or so. Here is a short review of the turns and a screen of the victory year. I didn't put my soul into this, and if you feel this doesn't belong here yet pls edit my post Cracker.

-------

150BC: Chivalry researched. Change to 10% tax and start researching theology. Send all horses to closest city with barracks. Change buildorders to knights, temples in new cities and two galleis. Hanging gardens in Car.

130BC: Capture Niagara Falls. I now have 9 knight upgraded. Need every gold now for the remaining 9 HM upgr, but still 10% research, but change research to Engineering.

110BC: Usual stuff. Need to settle SE part of continent, new barb camp appears there. Order settlers from my 2 size 6 cities that has stopped to grow.

90BC: One barb warrior will reach one of my undefended cities in the south.

70BC: The barb warrior stole a whooping 4 G from my warstressed treasuries.

50BC: Captured Iroquois capitol Salamanca with the Oracle. Most of my knights have reached the frontlines now.

30BC: Found Oea some 8-10 tiles NE of Car. Capture Grand River. Lost one SH attacking Allegheny. Hurried two galleis in Arbela and Boston.

10BC: Capture the last Aztec city of Catlixlauaca, so long Monty. Capture Oil Springs. Capture Allegheny. Iroquois now has one last city remaining, Tonawanda in the north. My workers has been working overtime to connect the new cities since the former owners apperantly still tried to figure out how to build a road. I havent really thought about it, but noone has built the pyramids yet, switch to pyramids in car.

10AD: Some riots in LMi and Salam, send out the clowns.

30AD: Capture Tonawanda, exit Hiawata. I now have 18 knights, own the continent, and are allmost finished linking all cities with roads. My citycount is 25.

50AD: Found Hadremeutum. All HM upgraded to knights, 19 in total now, 1. galei reach the straits to the greek city Corinth on Cape West of my continent. Will keep the good relation to alexander to both avoid his hoplites, and speed up the conquest of the other continent. I will near the city of delphi and get a ROP, and use the roads there that connect the rest of the continent. My knights will be all over Germany in a few rounds, now if i could just get the quickly over...

70AD: Give Alex chiv and get Rop, first boatload lie ready to embark outside Delphi. The only minor hindrance now will be Chineese Riders, otherwise this should go very smooth from now on.

90AD: 4 Knights on other continent. Spot chineese galley in the continental strait.

110AD: 6 Knights on the other side.

130AD: Hurry harbour at Oil Springs. SAVE MADE.

150AD: 7knights, 3SM over.

170AD: Found Cadiz 2 tiles NW of Teotihuacan. Hurry galei at Oil Springs.

190AD: Bring some workers over to make additional roads to hurry up the unit transportation to the german border.

210AD: Now I have 6 SM, 20kn and 3 workers on, or èn route to the other continent.

230AD: A few more rounds now...Hurry a few temples in high corruption areas. Order some new settler.

250AD: zzzzzzzz

260AD: Pyramids built in Car. Order Cathedral. SAVE MADE.

270AD: Founded Cirta near spice colony in south. Rushed a few temples. Declare war on Germany.

280AD Capture Berlin. A few knights are redlined, no casualties.

290AD Capture Konigsberg. Fortify all wounded units outside Berlin, consider flipping to be highly likely.

300AD: Capture Leipzig. 1 Kn dies trying to capture Frankfurt. Hurry Settler in Berlin.

310AD: Capture Hamburg, 1 Kn dies.

320AD: Capture Munich and Frankfurt. Settle Nora on the old continent. Soon war on China. Make peace with the germans and get the city of Cologne on the deal. That city is on the much talked about slave island in the south.

330AD: Keep positioning my units for a short victorious war with China.

340AD: Found Russadir 3 tiles N of Berlin.

350AD: I declare war on Chineese and start with attacking Canton. One Kn dies in the attempt.

360AD: Capture Beijing and the hanging gardens. Capture Hangchow. Few promotions, and not a single GL yet.

370AD: Capture Canton, Mao where kind enough to leave a catapult for me. For some reason most of his units are warriors and not SM.... And I havent seen one single Rider. Still he has both iron and horses hooked up.

380AD: Alex cancells ROP, fine by me - purpose served. Found Suicis 4 tiles SE of Salamanca. Capture Shanghai. Rush settler at canton. SAVE MADE.

390AD: Capture Xinjian.

400AD: Found Saldae on the new continent. Found Carthago Novo 4 tiles SW of Tenochtitlan.

410AD: Found Malaca SE of Washington. Finally got my harbour at one of the bordertowns on the new continent. Mucho happiness now.

420AD: Capture Tsingtao, the last Chineese settlement on the new continent. Sue for peace and get Republic on the bargain. Mao has his last city on the small 'slave continent'. Shouldnt be so far away from domination now. Will rush off some temples on suitable places.

430AD: Movin units to the greek border, rushing temples.

440AD: Hmmm, I really gotta DL mapstat soon.

450AD: Cultural expansion everywhere. Finished researching engineering. Start invention.

460AD: OK, gotta move on Alex then.

470AD: Found Gade 3 tiles NW of Hamburg. Hoplites hurt. Lost one knight trying to take Delpi. Captured Sparta. Forgot all about taking the last german town on the continent, Heidelburg will fell next round.

480AD: Capture Delphi. Capture Heidelburg.

490AD: Capture Athens and Sun Tzu's.

500AD: Capture Pharsalos.

510AD: Found Calaris 2 tiles N of Tenochtitlan. Not a single flip in the entire game, quite impressive. Not a single GL, not so impressive. Adjust Lux tax to 50% awaiting domination end.

520AD: Made peace with Bismarck. Tried to grasp Corinth from Alex, but he refused. It must be only a tile or two from domination now, unless all the black areas are landareas...

530AD: DOMINATION!!!! 5335 points.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/singufinishC2r530AD.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_520_AD.SAV

If anyone wanna have the other saves I made in this period I can provide them, but I really don't wanna fill more stuff into the UL archives then stricktly neccesary.

Ronald

Feb 25, 2003, 10:34 PM

Hi Singularity,

Great game :goodjob:

This shows the value of your knights. I am not sure that I can come close to this finishing date with horsemen and swordsmen.

Ronald

cracker

Feb 26, 2003, 01:23 AM

My apologies again for lagging with the data tables. Most of the regent players are already uploaded to 170bc and as soon as we get the Emperor level synchronized I will update to that level.

Here is the data table up to turn 90:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/QSC_C2table0775bc.gif

We should note that Zenga and Hotrod have surged into the middle ages ahead of the other players and Justus and Singularity are dropping through anarchy into Monarchy in preparation for disemboweling their neighbors.

Singularity

Feb 26, 2003, 02:20 AM

@Ronald
A few comments to my victory. Both Germany and China where hardly in this game, weak units, infrastructure but all the towns where +2 in size :) Greatly improving my speed at running them down. My workers where long drafted to building roads for my military, I had a fairly desent workforce which helped me get around faster. A good network of marketplaces and libraries in the core cities also helped when I had to put the pedal to the metal in my research and treasury savings.

---

Thx Cracker, I know how much stuff you have going on now with the transition to PTW @ GOTM and end of GOTM 16. Hands down, I'm impressed at your work here.

A few further comments to the chart:

Ronald and Justus both have an unmatched workforce, Justus however seem to be the one of us with a weak military compared to his citycount, and he has only 4 barracks so far. Ronald seem to be a bit in the technological dark ages still, but that should change fast with his infrastructural potential and huge number of cities - and his late iron and massupgrade of 16 warriors has left him with the highest ammount of swordsmen as well. Theese are the two single most interesting players and strategies that I've seen so far in the reports. Well, Charis is entertaining as well :)

Most of us shy away from Spartans except from Flexo and Nightfang, I believe the notion is that SM and HM have higher odds of surviving a fight with a fortified spearman.

Zagnut is building pyramids, will be interesting to compare his population in 170BC, he will also get a boost from granary counts.

Takeo has the largest military and HM force, but counting his barrackses to only one, concludes that most of them are regulars I guess.

Many different buildups here, interesting how Takeo and Hotrod bypassed monarchy and republic to get to Chivalry - will be exciting to see if they actually made it in time.

Justus seems unbeatable however in his game.

PattonTwo

Feb 26, 2003, 02:33 PM

delete please.

Singularity

Feb 26, 2003, 03:05 PM

It would be interesting to have the last chart ready before GOTM17 starts 1.march, only missing last report from Zenga and Nightfang from our Regent group now.

zenga

Feb 27, 2003, 10:12 PM

Zenga Turns 91 - 120

Sorry about the late last report. Here goes...

750BC(91)

Sabratha builds temple, start court.

Texcoco razed after swords defeat 2 spear with 1 loss. Aztecs down to 1 city.

730BC(92)

Carthage builds horse, start settler. Hadrumetum builds warrior, start temple. Hippo builds galley, start court.

Aztecs found a second city. Galley in NW spots light green borders near Munich, contact with both civs will be made next turn.

710BC(93)

Theveste builds temple, start settler.

Germans contacted they're miles behind. Move galley to gain contact with Greece first to see if this is an indication of the other civs in general.

Contact Greece, they aren't quite as badly off. The German defender in Munich had lost HP's so maybe a war is ongoing over there. Need to get embassies to make sure.

First things first, trade Greece Maths for contact with China, TM and 92g.
Quick check with China, no gold. Trade Germans Maths for WM and 15g. Trade China Maths for WM and 4g. Trade Germany Phil for 62g. Trade Germany Currency for 115g (bankrupting them). Trade Greece Currency for WM and 47g (bankrupting everyone on the other continent).

Establish all embassies except Aztec. Looks like Athens will get the Pyramids first.

690BC(94)

Cadiz founded W of Teno bringing spices on line, start temple.

670BC(95)

Carthage builds settler, start horse. Sci down to 50%, Feud in 1.

650BC(96)

Feudalism researched, go back and start Republic at 100% (due in 11).

Utica builds settler, start horse. Temple whipped in Rusicade. Swords outside the newly formed Texcoco spot the first Jag seen as defender.

630BC(97)

Rusicade builds temple, start sword.

3 swords attack Texcoco, 1st loses to Jag (giving Aztecs GA), 2nd beats archer, 3rd beats Jag, town auto-razed.

Galley near Greece finds a new land to the S and meets some friendly barbarian farmers.

610BC(98)

Theveste builds settler, start horse. Renew ROP with Persia, trade Abe TM for his WM.

590BC(99)

Carthage builds horse, start horse. Cirta founded, start sword.

570BC(100)

Persians finish the Colossus in Persepolis and start the GLH.

Zenga 570BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc570.sav)

550BC(101)

Nora founded, start hoplite. Oea temple whipped. Carthage switched to market.

530BC(102)

Oea builds temple, start sword. Russida founded, start hoplite.

510BC(103)

Pasgarde has flipped to America, strange it being so close to Persopolis.

490BC(104)

Sci down to 90%, Republic in 1.

470BC(105)

Republic researched, start Engineering at break even rate of 80% (due in 13). Don't switch Governments yet, will wait until Aztecs are dust.

Cadiz temple partial whipped.

450BC(106)

Troops advance on Tlatelolco.

430BC(107)

Aztec archer attacks sword and loses, sword promotes to elite.

Carthage builds market, start sword.

2 spear defeated at Tlatelolco, 1 sword lost, and the city is taken. The Aztecs are no more.

Incense deal with America expires. Don't renew since they are the next target and we should take their Incense shortly. Go for a change to Republic and hope for a good roll of the die. set some clowns in bigger cities first. 6 turns of anarchy.

410BC(108)

Wait.

390BC(109)

Not much bar the galley exploring the southern island. It's large enough for a few cities and there seem plenty of barb workers there.

370BC(110)

Same as before. There looks like another island to the W of the first. Galley N of China takes wrong path and ends turn in sea.

Zenga 370BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc370.sav)

350BC(111)

Chinese ask us to move out of their territory, we do. Galley sinks!

330BC(112)

Carthage riots. Never noticed growth last turn.

310BC(113)

Carthage now a Republic. America has joined us in the Middle Ages, lacking Republic. Look to take them next. Nobody has researched Literature yet, I'm not going to bother.

Sci at 60% (Engineering in 8), lux 10%, +8gpt.

290BC(114)

Utica builds horse, start sword. Abe and Xerxes are both annoyed.

270BC(115)

Carthage builds sword, start sword. Teno switches to settler and rushes.

250BC(116)

Teno builds settler, start temple.

230BC(117)

Carthage builds sword, start sword. Theveste builds horse, start horse.

Greece has entered the Middle Ages and has Monotheism, don't want to trade yet.

210BC(118)

Sulcis founded, start hoplite.

190BC(119)

Carthage builds sword, start sword. Forces gathering at Sabratha for attack on America.

170BC(120)

Engineering researched, start Invention at 60% (due in 10). Can trade for Monotheism easily but don't, making a beeline for Mil Trad and plan to eliminate at least the Americans and Persia before then.

Utica builds sword, start sword. Hippo builds court, start barracks.

With the GLH due shortly in Leptis Magna I hope to be able to settle the 2 islands to the SW as well as locate possibly more land. The Lighthouse will also allow easy travel straight to Chinese lands from our E coast.

Zenga 170BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_bc170.sav)

zenga

Feb 27, 2003, 10:38 PM

War with America was withheld until their cities were large enough to avoid auto-razing, c30AD. I'm not sure if this was worthwhile or not, or the decision to bypass the normal horse>knight upgrade and go straight for cavalry with the intention of using Leo's for helping save on upgrade costs and allowing quicker research until Mil Trad. Although I was looking to research fairly quickly, I never bothered researching Literature or building any libraries.

I've played up to 190AD so far and have wiped out the Americans (bar a single size 1 city) with the Persians and Iroquois to fall soon. Will probably have time to finish the game this weekend and would expect to finish in the middle of the pack, judging by progress of others. :)

Here's a look at the neo-Carthagian empire in 170BC.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_carthagebc170(s).jpg

Edit: bloody pic isn't working! Put in a link instead! :o

Zenga neo-Carthagian Empire in 170BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zenga_QSC_C2r_carthagebc170(s).jpg)

Nightfang

Feb 27, 2003, 11:35 PM

Doh! I thought we had already played the last turns, yet it appears there are more to play. Well then, I will have to get to them tomorrow evening, though at this point, the next GOTM is about to begin, so my late turns may not matter much now...

cracker

Feb 28, 2003, 10:23 PM

Here is the final data table up to and including turn 120.

When you look at the table, note that I have added a second set of totals and subtotals where the Technology research costs have been equalized to the Regent Level tech costs. This is not 100% a fair comparison because in reality the Emperor players did have to deal with the effects of these increased costs in most cases.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/QSC_C2table0170bc1.gif

Singularity

Mar 02, 2003, 03:34 AM

I really feel I had it too easy in this game, besides going first for goverment change with Justus and building science/commerce centre around my capitol I can't find much explanation for surging to the top of the table in Regent(though very close to Takeo :) ).

The lack of competition actually just continued until the end when I achieved domination in 530AD, and getting a desent Regent score of 5335 points.

zenga

Mar 05, 2003, 01:52 AM

Well, I finally got round to finishing this game and completed Domination in 670AD (14 turns after Singularity) with just over 5k points.

As I mentioned earlier, I waited for the American and Persian cities to grow past size 1 before attacking and then took them quickly with swords and horses. Iroquois were next, immediately after, and I then triggered my GA allowing a mass build of horses and galleys. Leo's was also completed quicker with GA production in place. The Iroquois were left with one city on one of the smaller islands (they would eventually become the retirement homes for the other civs too).

In retrospect, the decision to go straight to Mil Trad was probably overkill and resulted in a slower victory. By the time I researched it I was able to upgrade ~40 horse, load the waiting dozen or so galleys and amble over to China. I then proceeded to blitz through China, Germany and Greece in turn, maybe losing 2 or 3 cavs in total. I think I saw 2 Chinese swords, 3 German swords and, of course, the Hoplites. None of the civs had better defenders than spears (Greece excepted) and I never saw any horse units apart from my own. The cavalry charge took around 20 turns (including ferrying reinforcements from home).

I agree with Singularity, the AI's seemed pretty backwards in this game and never put up a fight - maybe I'm just getting better! :)

With regards to the QSC scoring system, which cracker developed to measure civ power, I'm not too sure how this would relate in a game like this when Domination (or Conquest) is the goal. One of the main aspects of QSC scoring is Technology - the top 4 scores were also the top 4 tech scores. In a Domination game the main reason for gaining techs is to get better units, and for tactical purposes sometimes research is slowed or trades withheld in order to slow rivals (in my last turn I could have traded for Monotheism) or allow the building of less expensive units before upgrading. Maybe a better indicator in such a game is relative tech progress with the other civs.

I think the scoring does indicate a 'balanced' approach, but is not necessarily an indicator of a game taken to extremes in pursuit of an early military victory. It would be interesting to see how all the other games concluded to compare this. Hint, hint! ;)

Skyfish

Mar 05, 2003, 03:13 AM

I agree with Zenga : I was most of the time ahead in Techs during the game (compared to AIs but also co-players) but as soon as I started war I slowed back down big time on techs purposely because I wanted to invade the other continent with Knights and not encounter too many Pikes.

So the Tech and Infrastructure poitns are over estimated in that type of quick victory QSC because there is a purposely held back Tech progress at one point and a lot of infrstructure (cath, market, library, even acqueducts because of rivers) is not need as it is more of a race to the finish.

I still have to play to completion but I believe even though I did not have a good QSC score, I might be able to achieve Domiantion faster than most.
I ahve 18 horses which can upgrade to Knights ina few turns and then the next continent will be fall in jsut a few turns...
Will keep the thread updated on my victory date.

cracker

Mar 06, 2003, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by zenga
With regards to the QSC scoring system, which cracker developed to measure civ power, I'm not too sure how this would relate in a game like this when Domination (or Conquest) is the goal. One of the main aspects of QSC scoring is Technology - the top 4 scores were also the top 4 tech scores. In a Domination game the main reason for gaining techs is to get better units, and for tactical purposes sometimes research is slowed or trades withheld in order to slow rivals (in my last turn I could have traded for Monotheism) or allow the building of less expensive units before upgrading. Maybe a better indicator in such a game is relative tech progress with the other civs.

I think that one of the key points you have to realize with the QSC score is that it measures the POWER of you civilization compared to all other human played civilizations under similar circumstances.

This is not a measure of who is the biggest dog in your game or who is relatively the biggest dog compared to the AI civs.

In these early conquest and early domination type games you might cripple all your neighbors early and that would put you potentially closer to winning the game by domination or conquest while potentially leaving you looking like a weenie when compared externally.

The question in quick domination and quick conquest games is how powerful do you need to be to win the game???

Most players wrongly assume that the quick warmonger victories might require some sort of strong technology advantage when in fact the fastest victories seem to come from focusing on extreme minimums of research and improvements and the pouring on the coals to first cripple and then kill all your neighbors.

Charis provides us sort of an example of this process in QSC-C1 "Irritated Mao" where he basically mangles his whole half of the world and is clearly a dominant force but ends up with whole world big picture that is technologically behind all the other examples where the AI rivals can develope to contribute something to world peace.

The difference between quick domination and quick conquest is that the quickest dominations come form letting the AI's help you fill up the world with cities that can hold territory while the conquest is just a pure maim and slash game.

Skyfish

Mar 28, 2003, 06:17 AM

By the way I forgot to mention but I achieved Domination in 490AD.

Bamspeedy

Mar 30, 2003, 12:34 AM

Sorry for interrupting, but I wanted to make a few comments. (I just found this forum, I didn't notice it before).

I feel I should add some input, because it seems like this entire thread is just people posting what they did, and Cracker just giving the mathematical QSC results, but there isn't much discussion on what each player is doing right or wrong except for some tech progession talk.

I noticed that many players had very few workers. Sure, later on when you start waging wars you'll get some slaves, but having a few more workers early on will greatly increase your production capabilities. I usually like to build warrior (for MP), then worker (to improve terrain for that city), then start on infrastructure/military units. Or have a high food city just continually build workers (if you already have other settler factories in place). Or your 1-shield (high corrupt) cities just build workers every 10 turns.

I realize this was a quick domination game, so you would emphasize settlers more so than workers, but some of you need your core cities better developed. Many cities (having +2 food) could produce a settler every 20 turns (10 turns with granary/pyramids), but if it's only producing 1 shield/turn, then it can only produce a settler every 30 turns, because the city simply lacks the shield production. I saw many screenshots where there was roads everywhere, but there was maybe only 1 mine, or 1 irrigation in place. And a player mining a hill, before mining bonus grassland. In one case, there was irrigated grassland while still in despotism (it's ok to irrigate grassland if it's a bonus resource, or you need the irrigation to reach somewhere else, but otherwise it's a waste) With proper terrain improvements, a size 2 city can be more powerful than a size 4 or 5 city (production wise). With mining those bonus grassland you can get those temples/granaries/military units built so much faster and help speed up your power rush on the AI. There was some cities that were stuck at size 2, because there wasn't any workers around to irrigate the plains to allow the city to grow any larger.

I don't mean to sound harsh (and this doesn't apply to all of you, because some of the players used their few workers very wisely), but nobody is pointing this stuff out. Pointing out what could be done differently, or better is more effective for improving one's gameplay than just looking at a numbers chart.