This is really beginning to get creepy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2757923.stm

Creepy? Hm. I would've pegged it as "depressing" (unless you make caskets for a living). Awfully interesting to see Japanese attitude turn around on this, as well. Nobody is real fond of the U.S. presence over there, but with Pyongyang not taking its medication, it's kind of fun to see the U.S. step back and let everybody else get outraged at NK.

Anybody from the free and open society of NK want to rebut this...?

Since I was only about 4 years old during the Gulf War, I really never realized the real dangers that are still existant in the world today. It wasn't until about 1 -1 1/2 years ago that I could see that the world was not as stable or free from conflict as it seemed to me.:( I hope that nothing too serious comes out of this 'ultimatum' made by Japan.

Well, it's not really an ultimatum. More like a warning. And IMO an exceedingly reasonable one - all they're saying is that if they find out North Korea's going to launch a missile at them, they'll try to preempt the attack with their own. Can't really see arguing with that - after all, what are they supposed to do, let themselves get nuked?

Japan is historically a warring culture. With a constant supply of resources from America, they'd do some real damage. If you consider how frustrated Japanese military leaders have been since the end of WWII re: lack of action, combined w/ America's preference to have a country within Asia's culture group to do the dirty work, this could happen.

Originally posted by dojoboy
Japan is historically a warring culture.
They do have a certain "martial" quality to them, don't they?

On the flip side, IIRC, there's no love lost between Japanese and Korean cultures in general, either. The former historically looks down on the latter, also an irony since many of the celebrated Japanese samurai supposedly have Korean ancestry.

This is really sort of a grudge-match-in-waiting.

While Japan was agressive in the first half of the 20th century (aka building a colonial empire for itself out of European colonies), the results of WW2 and particularly the devastation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have promoted a very strong pacifism movement in the country today. This is both socially based, as in complete opposition to war running through entire families, and constitutionally, where they are only allowed Self-Defense forces that are not allowed to be deployed outside Japan and are most famous for ineffectually attacking Godzilla.

The situation reminds me of the whole Cuban Missile Crisis. Hopefully it can have a similar resolution

I dunno... There may not be any USSR involved this time, but Kim Jong Il makes Fidel Castro look like Lady Di in comparison.

Japan was agressive for the most part of its history, if you studied the asian history you would know that. what Tex mentioned would be the last act of agreesion they commited(at least for now). Although pacifism movement roared the country, the Japanese government itself is still not acknowledging the WW2 and Japan's hideous war crimes. Not only that, filling the history text books with downright lies that glorifies them for the actions that they commited in WW2.... I don't know about you people, but Japan still seems like an agreesive country (in denial) to me. By the way, North Korea will never attack anybody, they may sell the weapons but they are not stupid enough to use it themselves. It's a wide known fact that the day they press the red button will be the day their regime slides down to graveyard.

I disagree for one I dont like the thought of another nuclear neighbor, if you push them in a corner, they will launch there missiles. Think about what do they have to lose, the country has almost absolutly no resources people die fom famines. I think it will come down to China and us[Russia] to disarm them. It was us during the 1960s who installed their nuclear reactors. Oh and about Kim Jung Ill he really isnt truely Korean. He and his dad Kim Ill Sung where born in Siberia during Japanese imperilism in the Korean peninsula. North Korea would have been nothing with out Iosef Vissarionoch Djhgusavilli(Stalin). By the way NMCUL if you didnr already no the Union of Soviet Socialistic Republics disbanded in 1991, however its popularity is recently making a come back with our National Anthem changed to the Soviet one, and the armies flag now has a red star and the hammer and sickle. No we are not communists.

Originally posted by neoruski
however its popularity is recently making a come back with our National Anthem changed to the Soviet one, and the armies flag now has a red star and the hammer and sickle. No we are not communists.

This might not be a bad move. The army, from my historical experience, may benefit from the symbolism that exudes pride and tradition. The Red Army was a formidable entity. Identifying w/ certain elements from the Soviet era could be a real positive.

This is not too unlike the South's (USA) insistence on identifying w/ the Confederate States of America and the "Stars and Bars" (Confederate Battle Flag).

neoruski, here's an idea, how about none of us have any nuclear arsenal or everybody has at least one. I find it extremely stupid that some countries are allowed to have nuclear arsenal while others are not and are forbidden to do so. Another thing, there wouldn't have been North and South Korea if it wasn't for Soviet and US. This is true, and u know what? it would have been better if it stayed as one country without 2 superpowers screwing with a small nation. If it wasn't for US and Soviet there wouldn't have been a separation and there would not have been the Korean war. How about that?? a country not divided????? Another thing, just because you are born on a foreign ground, it doesn't make u not Korean, I don't understand where u get such idea, he's Korean, just a ****ed up one at that.

Neoruski, ur country is one of the closest ally to North Korea, and the one of the prime reason it became such a country it exists right now, u have nothing to blame but to your country's old policies.<--Reply to the nuclear reactor installments in 1960s, this is somewhat expected thing.

Now, now Yellowtrace I was just making a statement for historicla references. To answer about North Korea being an allie of the Russian Federation I say this: You really should read more about where the alliances stand today, we are NOT an allie of N Korea. Dont blame us for there nuclear weapons, blame Pakistan for giving them nuclear weapons, we dont want another Nuclear active neighbor! I dont think you know the cold war s over, you look for battles where there are none!

Originally posted by neoruski
Now, now Yellowtrace I was just making a statement for historicla references. To answer about North Korea being an allie of the Russian Federation I say this: You really should read more about where the alliances stand today, we are NOT an allie of N Korea. Dont blame us for there nuclear weapons, blame Pakistan for giving them nuclear weapons, we dont want another Nuclear active neighbor! I dont think you know the cold war s over, you look for battles where there are none!

I agree completely. This thread is not going to cascade into any nationalistic fervor.

Oops did I put that in present form?? I meant that in the past form. Does it clear up something?? And my last post was to point out the fact that the reason for the separation is cold war, and none of this would have ever happened if it wasn't for it. That's a fact right?

I for one, hate the way things are working out right now. I mean look at the world today, when there was cold war, it was bipolar, at least some balance. Now it's unipolar, with other strong countries behind it.

US has absolutely no right to act as the world police, Israel is being a @#$%^, I don't know too much about the Russian and the rebel thing happening there, but as of now it awfully reminds me of the independence movement existed once in Korea against the Japanese imperialism. I mean, listen to Nelson Mandela, he put it so clearly.

The case with middle east is, they don't want reform. Why force them?? The mere thought disgusts them and it's going to ruin their islam structure if it ever happens. They'll eventually change over time, let them be. US is trying to make them think the way US does, that's extremely stupid and ignorant, but what do you expect, it's been happening for the last couple of decades.

Another thing, north Korea starting a war is very unlikely, although possible because everything's possible. There has been many incidents which could have led to second Korean war in the peninsula, I believe the situation went as bad as Defcon1 once. Another korean war would be the worst case scenario unlikely to happen, the second worst case scenario would be N.Korea developing nukes and selling them to the so called terrorist nations and threaten the powers suppressing them.

And no I'm not a north Korean, nor terrorist nor Anti-American. If you have a clear look at the world issues today, how is it possible not to see or understand the stupidity and hypocricy that exists in the world.

yeah, the cold war had some balance, each side had 10,000 nuclear weapons pointed at each other, ready to blow up the world. not to mention the various third world civil wars that were worsened by superpower-manuvering. sure, better than world war 3, but i think the world is better off now.

after 9/11 and with economic globalization, national security is now a world-wide issue, especially with multiple searches for a new "enemy" now that the cold war is over. the only radical part of US foreign policy is the idea of pre-emptively defending national security.

as to the middle east, we're not trying to force anyone towards democracy (which isn't inconsistant with islam, just fanatical islam), even Iraq we just want "regime change" and would likely settle for a friendlier dictator. that and Israel would be more peaceful if it's existance hasn't been threatened for the past 50 years.

sure better off for US since they've had their worst enemy taken out for a long time now(sarcasm). I meant the situation in terms of polarity. Back in the cold war, it was BIpolar, now its UNIpolar with only US in the power. Being the lone superpower tastes good doesn't it?? There's no one daring enough to stand up against the country except for the "axis of evil" that US named.

Defending national security my arse. When was the last time a war occured IN US, I believe it was the civil war maybe????? Besides "you are not on our side so you are part of the problem and should be eliminated" sounds like some elementary school kid bully. And for the 9/11, I feel remorse for the ones killed due to the tragic accident(terrorism). But for god's sake more people died of car crashes in US then because of 9/11.

The case for Israel,are you suggesting that it is OK for israeli to threaten other nation because they were threatened? an eye for an eye?? I hope that's not what you are suggesting.

Lastly, US IS, I repeat, IS trying to put democracy into people who's not yet ready for it(at least to the eyes of the world not American) and the problem with that is that US is doing that in all the wrong places. Why don't they try to do something about all the civil war and massacre happening in Africa right now? If they are really all for peace?

I mean why was US created in the first place?? Wasn't it a place where the people who were suffering from religious persecution, famine, all sorts of stuff from Europe escaped to? A country for freedom of speech and whatever. And as soon as US gains some power they start off with the native Americans and wipe them out completely(almost), Alamo, Hawaii, numerous other things.. The way US is acting is going totally against the motive of the creation of such country in the first place. One of the biggest hypocricy, I find, and it's been continuing ever since.

A nation has a right to defend itself against attacks. There is opposition to the US course of action, just look at the UN debates, or the general public outcry. As to democracy, I think that anyone is ready for it, the countries just need strong governmental institutions to prevent it from being co-opted by dictators. I also think that while the US would like a democratic Middle East, our support for monarchies and dictatorships (see Saudi Arabia or Pakistan) show that we're not trying to impose "our way" on the whole region.

<soapbox>

I think the idea behind "regime change" in Iraq is to put an example into the middle east that an Arab country can have a republican form of government that still respects religion. Turkey is an example (thanks to the legacy of Attaturk IIRC) of a country predominantly Muslim that still respects secular government & freedom of religion. Even now, in Iran, many "radical" clerics have stated the belief that religion belongs in the mosque, not in the government. If there is regime change in Iraq, and what results is a form of representative republican government, this could help the region immensely.

- Please note that I never use the term "democracy." A democracy is a government form of mob rule, where 51% of the population decides the laws, and there is no rule of law. There is no "democracy" in the world today, most governments are representative republics or constitutional monarchies. This is one of my itching complaints about Civ 3, they should use "federal republic" or something to replace "democracy."

</soapbox>

Originally posted by senecasax
Turkey is an example (thanks to the legacy of Attaturk IIRC) of a country predominantly Muslim that still respects secular government & freedom of religion.

Yes, Kemal Attaturk. I believe Attaturk is a title given to the "ruler" which means "Father of the Turks." Kemal was extremely successful in bringing the Turks' ethnicity to the forefront v. the religion (Islam).