Anybody else seeing this in GOTM21? :eek:

Actually, Ruf I am pretty sure that when you wake up from the small conk on the head that I just gave you I think you will say "Oh, yeah. That image would be considered in game info about Gotm21 and I now relaize that posting that image outside of a spoiler discussion or a PM or email to cracker was not the best choice I could have made." I know it gets exciting but let's restrain our unbridled entusiasm and glee. - cracker ;)

[Ouch. That hurt! I didn't think it would spoil anything, but please accept my humble apologies.]

Nope, but I hope to ;)

Melifluous

On the installer - I reckon it's a great idea. A big improvement on the earlier "unzip into this directory" method for an e-oaf like me.

For Game21, when I installed the very early (now fixed) crook version that crashed, I ended up doing a complete purge and reinstall (ie. delete/uninstall everything CivIII & remove registry residue - then load CivIII original - then 1.29 patch - then PTW - then 1.21 patch - then the full GOTM pack). It worked perfectly. Congratulations to the e-wizards who put the install pack together !

I hope that it is a part of each GOTM, with the .sav itself packaged up with it each month so there is just one download & install. The "click to download" in the last message box is nice and simple and OK as long as you run the install AFTER the first of the month. Otherwise you have to note the address down anyway (or rerun the install package after the game is available, or just be patient and wait until after midnight Cracker-time on the 1st before running it).

One suggestion - perhaps the install pack could also write a log file to the CIVIII directory reporting what it did (ie. directories created, files copied / overwritten etc.) in case of any problems.

Sorry to bother everyone, but for some reason, when I try to go to the site to download GOTM 21, it just kicks me out of the site in total! Could somebody please help me?! Thanks!

Ant509y,

Your problem may be related to the AOL netscape clone browser that sometimes barfs in places where the InternetExplorer, Opera, and other browsers do not choke.

If you can temporarily try to access the page using Internet Explorer this should fix the problems.

Oh, okay. I'll try that then, tomorrow. Thanks for the help, cracker, and if it still doesnt work, I'll ask again! lol. bye!!!

Hello,

This is my first GotM and I d/l the full pack and installed it. When seeing all the text at the beginning, I just breezed through it without taking copious notes. After reading some feed back here, I guess I should have paid closer attention, because I have no idea where the .sav file is, and am getting frustrated. Can someone please tell me where it was placed? A .txt file in the /scenarios/gotm21/ directory would have been nice.

EDIT: Apologies... obviously, I'm a new poster. ---- PTW 1.21

Just a gentle reminder to all players who post messages or send in PM's or emails with commenst or requestsfor help:

Make certain that you ALWAYS DECLARE your software version and what class you are trying to play.

In the example by lane1222 above, no where is it mentioned that the PTW version is what he is trying to play. We have to figure that out by a combination of mindreading anf inference based on the passing mention of a "...scenarios" folder but it is still a guess.

Attached to this message is a copy of the trailing text file that is present at the end of the auto installer with the save game file locations.

Originally posted by Ant509y
Sorry to bother everyone, but for some reason, when I try to go to the site to download GOTM 21, it just kicks me out of the site in total! Could somebody please help me?! Thanks!

Yeah, I'm trying GOTM for the first time and AOL would not download the file. Explorer will.

My game plays much slower when I'm playing GOTM. Is this normal?

Is there somewhere that describes the differences between open, conquest and predator?

Originally posted by waylander
Is there somewhere that describes the differences between open, conquest and predator?

For GOTM21, it's here (scroll to bottom of page):

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm21_features.shtml

My game plays much slower when I'm playing GOTM. Is this normal?

It is a bit slower due to the map size and the number of civs. It does get a bit faster and there is another thread with some more info on game speed.

Hotrod

DaviddesJ,

Thanks, that helps alot.

Waylander

My Mac doesn't read the .exe file.

I have Mac OS 9.2, if that helps...

Originally posted by Reddwarfian
My Mac doesn't read the .exe file.
In fact, it reads but doesn't understand them. ;)
I have Mac OS 9.2, if that helps... No. What really helps is reading this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57169) where cracker gives us Macintosh people the download link (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm21_Mac.zip) .:goodjob:

Oops.

Must've missed that...

I didn't see anything like this elsewhere, so I'm asking here, let me know if I missed this.

I'd be really curious what it takes to "build" a GOTM. For example, the next two are listed as Vikings and Arabs - what stage are they in - maps done already, someone building new "stuff", testing etc. Without getting into spoilers, I'm curious how long ago GOTM21 was started and what type of development cycle was used, how many people involved, etc.

These are really "fun" (even if I don't do that well compared to some), and I wonder how much work went into something that I will obsess over large chunks of the month.

ssharlow

SSharlow,

Hopefully we will have more time for some technical discussion of what goes into building the maps and game setups in the future. Now that we are getting a fairly large pool of players that have played on the maps, some technical discussions will be lots of fun and provide lots of great inputs to the process.

I can tell you that the games and maps take shape over a several month period. One of the biggest differences between the old way and the new way of doing things is that we track all the map conditions and then make certain that the games you see will provide some variety and excitement through different challenges.

Some examples of things that are being tracked include:
nearest neighbor civ rivals
intermediate neighbor civ rivals
distant civ rivals
average terrain character of the start position (about 6 different variables)
Average usable terrain per civ
Average powerful terrain per civ (no water, desert, mtns, jungle)
Minimum expected contatc crossing distances
(and a whole host of other factors)

Some people complain that they like the simplicity of just a randomly generated map, but I tend to totally disagree with that statement when we have 300-600 people playing the game. Wasting a month of play of a randomly diysfunctional game setup that has nothing to do with a game concept is just not a responsible approach in my book (nothing wrong with it for personal games of games for 5 or 6 people, but we are talking about a different scale here).

One of the things we look at also in the traits of the UU and the historic and designed character traits of the Civ in terms of build priorities and special abilities. Yes, the human can ignore the build priorities but these give hints as to how an immersive concept game can be generated. In GOTM games in 2002, the randomly chosen games resulted in worthless UU and trait conditions in over 50% of the games and we wanted to reduce the level of these effects.

One thing we are finding is that Low difficulty level games do not provide much in the way of interesting interactions. Not that we want the games to be "harder" we just want the other players to not be Jello.

An example of process can be found in the Gotm20 Spain map setup which was actually laid out before Gotm18 and Gotm19 were defined. The Gotm18 and Gotm19 games were designed to emphasize key game elements that would be critical in Gotm20 without making the games boring and repetitive. Knowing that Gotm20 would be Deity level several months in advance, we did not want to introduce fundamentally new game play strategies at the toughest levels.

The final phase of game development invloves playe testing and balancing. I currently fill the map maker role and play each map up to the 1000bc level and then analyse how each of the civs develop. This can lead to altering some civ starting postions or altering some terrain bonus positions and resources or even giving the civs a unit bonus to try and get them to play out to the desired functional positions during the first 80 to 100 turns. Rome in Gotm19 was a good example of this process where it was determined that they had to have an altered settler progression to get then to play out as as strong as the human position even though they were on an isolated island continent all to themselves.

Generally by the time you see a game, it has 100 to 120 hours of play time on it in some form.

Preparing a game that will function well in PTW and Civ3v1.29 is also somewhat of a real challenge. PTW sucks down on the RNG at a much more frequent rate so it can randomly walk in a totally different direction from the base game even under identical start conditions.

Originally posted by Reddwarfian (See Sig)
He could'a won a Grammy, Buried in his 'jamies.
Born in Arizona, moved to Bablyonia,
He was born in Arizona, He's got a condo made of stone-a!
King Tut!

Bit repetitive in the 3rd line with reusing Arizona. How about :
doner
loner
moaner
roamer

:)

Preparing a game that will function well in PTW and Civ3v1.29 is also somewhat of a real challenge. PTW sucks down on the RNG at a much more frequent rate so it can randomly walk in a totally different direction from the base game even under identical start conditions.

I didnt know about this cracker. I felt that the RNG went out of its way to screw me in the current GoTM (1.21f Europe Open). I only upgraded for to 1.21f prior to this GoTM. I didn't have the persecution complex that I now seemed to have developed prior to this - I am thinking of sueing Atari for the years of therapy that lie ahead of me.
The problems with the RNG in my game didnt begin to really manifest themselves until after 10AD. How does the PTW RNG suck in your opinion, is there any difference in how much it sucks between versions and can you do anything to influence the effect it may be having on the later game?

Originally posted by cracker
Some people complain that they like the simplicity of just a randomly generated map, but I tend to totally disagree with that statement when we have 300-600 people playing the game. Wasting a month of play of a randomly dysfunctional game setup that has nothing to do with a game concept is just not a responsible approach in my book (nothing wrong with it for personal games of games for 5 or 6 people, but we are talking about a different scale here).


If one of the things the GOTMs are supposed to do is challenge players, then the challenge of dealing with "dysfunctional" (i.e., difficult) game starts is (or should be) part of that. If we can't have "difficult" starts because it's too hard on the beginning players, I hope we can find ways to make the Predator games, at least, more difficult. Even if this might require in some cases more significant changes between Open and Predator (e.g., map changes).

Originally posted by samildanach
The problems with the RNG in my game didnt begin to really manifest themselves until after 10AD. How does the PTW RNG suck in your opinion, is there any difference in how much it sucks between versions and can you do anything to influence the effect it may be having on the later game?

All he's saying is that there are more things in PTW that cause it to use up random numbers, thus more likelihood that a player will do something that causes their game to follow a different course than someone else's game. He's not saying that the random numbers are "better" or "worse"; that doesn't make sense. Just that the designer has less ability to predict what will happen, in PTW.

I don't think this is so bad, myself.

Originally posted by samildanach
... How does the PTW RNG suck in your opinion, is there any difference in how much it sucks between versions and can you do anything to influence the effect it may be having on the later game?
I didn't mean sucks as in bad sucks. I meant "sucks down on" as in "hogs all the milkshake through the straw" because in PTW the RNG draws from the stack are alot more frequent and can have a multiplicative effect. There is a lot more stupid RNG driven barbarian, explration, and general AI bozo behavior in PTW. It just makes the process of balancing a game for comparison even harder.

It also slows down the game cycles because the AI and the barbs are doing more random things godd, bad, and ugly.

In an individual player game this randomness is not bad at all but from a standpoint of a game that has hundreds of players we do not want events that are truly random. We want each individual player to perceive that they are random but we really want the outcomes to be fixed. If player A is going the get a settler from a hut we want all players to get a settler from that hut (if they do not meet the blocking criteria). If player C gets an 8 turn anarchy then we want all players to draw an 8 turn anarchy. If player Z draws steam power as the industrial age free science tech then we want all players to draw Steam Power.

The choice of which outcome occurs could still be randomly generated but then just preset for all players in the game this is not that technical of a concept.

Also, the barb randomness and diplomacy giggle randomness should not draw from the same deck of cards as the hut and combat event randomness. These are just some fundamental design basics.

Thanks for clearing that up. I jumped to the conclusion that the RNG was somehow loaded in PTW. As I said, years of therapy:crazyeye:

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
If one of the things the GOTMs are supposed to do is challenge players, then the challenge of dealing with "dysfunctional" (i.e., difficult) game starts is (or should be) part of that. If we can't have "difficult" starts because it's too hard on the beginning players, I hope we can find ways to make the Predator games, at least, more difficult. Even if this might require in some cases more significant changes between Open and Predator (e.g., map changes).
I doubt we will head in this map variant direction because it causes irreconcilable differences in play beyond where I think we should go.

Also, you not assume that you will not see difficult start positions. Difficult exists in different forms. There are conflicts that must be resolved and issues that must be addressed that may not be instantly apparent in grass vs desert vs jungle.

You may need to have more faith in the general level of expertise in the background of the process.

What you probably will not see is games where the inherent values of the UU and the Civ traits and historic presence as defined in the scope of the game will have no value. You would not see an Iroquois or Egypt game on an archipelago without horses. You will probably not see start positions alot like Gotm14-Babylon on Deity. You will probably not see England or the Vikings on a Pangaea map. You probably will not see Deity level games without a river in city position 1, 2, or 3.

Originally posted by cracker
In an individual player game this randomness is not bad at all but from a standpoint of a game that has hundreds of players we do not want events that are truly random. We want each individual player to perceive that they are random but we really want the outcomes to be fixed. If player A is going the get a settler from a hut we want all players to get a settler from that hut (if they do not meet the blocking criteria). If player C gets an 8 turn anarchy then we want all players to draw an 8 turn anarchy. If player Z draws steam power as the industrial age free science tech then we want all players to draw Steam Power.


I think for the purposes of discussion and community, it's actually better to have a broader variety of random events. Then people can discuss and compare their different outcomes, and how those affected their games. If several different players had different random events, I can compare their games to mine and see how it affected them, and I learn more than if every game went exactly the same as mine.

I agree that one player popping a settler from a hut on turn 2, while another gets barbarians, is probably too much divergence right off the bat. But trying to make sure that everyone gets the same random tech in 800AD is unnecessary, in my opinion. Anyway, it can't be done, so I suppose it's mostly moot.

Originally posted by cracker
You may need to have more faith in the general level of expertise in the background of the process.


It's not a question of expertise. It's mostly a question of difficulty and challenge. It seems that, for the foreseeable future, all GOTMs at all levels will be constructed so that the experienced players will all surely win. The only tension comes from figuring out whether we can win by 600AD or whether we'll have to go to 800AD. Or creating artificial difficulties for ourselves, like OCC.

My feeling is that, at the Predator level, there's an opportunity to have more difficult games, for players who want that. Games that might be a challenge to win. I think random deity games can be fairly challenging, with unfavorable starts. So I know it's possible. Maybe it just doesn't fit within your vision of the GOTM. I understand that GOTM can't be all things to all people.

I have to agree with a whole lot of what both DaviddesJ AND cracker are saying. The concept of a rough ride in a game--when even the best of players are in danger of losing the game via a rough start, cramped quarters, lack of resources, etc. makes a whole lot of sense to me.

Problem is, because of the rampant popularity of the GOTM, and the fact that it carries scoring and global rankings with it, means that many of the best players, to whom the ranking and scoring matter (not saying that this is the ONLY pursuit for them--and not trying to imply that I know all of their motivations either :) ), will not necessarily want to participate in a game whose outcome (win or lose) is greatly in question. The choice of playing a more difficult game does not provide any benefit to scoring or player rankings. It is merely "excellence is its own reward" That has drawn many a player so far, and I hope it continues.

Cracker has a formidible task--trying to balance the playability for the masses, cater the newcomers and less experienced, and provide a challenging game for the top players. One game cannot be all things to all people. I tend to disagree with some of the parts of the GOTM, and (if I could just get games done in time :p ) would participate more. I personnally do not care about the scoring--not my bag, man. I limit myself in the use of some tactics--that is a choice. Nuff said.

On the random nature--I agree that trying to force the same random tech is a loser IMO. I am somewhat put off by synching up what huts give, because they can make such a huge difference. I like how the "great sucking sound" of PTW on the PRNG can make in comparing games, and the subsequent conversations of "You mean [insert civ here] managed to do that--they were toast in my game". I do agree that PTW does tend to use the PRNG too much, and could use some separation between different types of dice rolls. I also wouldn't mind a game engine that did not rely on so many pseudo-random things....ah well...starting to get OT here.

There are other comparative games where the pursuit of very difficult games is encouraged---and that particular gathering is sufficiantly small that this works. DaviddesJ, perhaps you could venture there and see how it suits?

Originally posted by Bam-Bam
There are other comparative games where the pursuit of very difficult games is encouraged---and that particular gathering is sufficiantly small that this works. DaviddesJ, perhaps you could venture there and see how it suits?

...again, I agree with Bam Bam here. I know what he is referring to and have shadowed 3 of those games for fun (though I don't post/interact with the active players). They are incredibly fun, and are quite challenging indeed. When I need a fix on a challenging game, or something a bit out of the ordinary, I download one of those games.

As for the GOTM, I rather enjoy the level it is currently at. In the 4 games I have participated in so far (including 21), I have never had any fear that I would 'lose' per se, but I am constantly criticizing how well I am handling things in my game...and thinking aloud the whole time how Sir Pleb is probably doing everything 40 turns faster.. :cry:

For me, this is the fun of the GOTM.

Originally posted by rabies
...and thinking aloud the whole time how Sir Pleb is probably doing everything 40 turns faster.. :cry:

I would love to see a match between Cartouch Bee and SirPleb, but saidly Cartouch Bee no longer play GOTM.:cry:

What is an idea, a very challenging starting positon (solo on an island, bad terrain, nearby agressive neighbors, etc)/ for the mid-month games for those who need/want a bigger challenge. Cracker could give extra benefits to the open / conquest players (like map making & a galley, extra settlers/worker or defensive units) to map the game playable for those who need/want the help. And the rest of us who can barely get the GOTM done, can sit back and see how they climb to the top of K2!!

Moonsinger, I didn't expect to hear from you today, I thought you'd be out buying power ball tickets :D

:beer:

Originally posted by denyd
Moonsinger, I didn't expect to hear from you today, I thought you'd be out buying power ball tickets :D

Thanks for reminding me; I have forgotten all about that. I need to donate another dollar to the cause. Since no one win last time, the jackpot is up to 250 millions now.

i have a question about saving my game and then loading it back up again sameday. the situation is- i played for several hours during the middle of today, then took a break from it and left the computer running. fully expected to get back to it this evening, but a severe thunderstorm came thru the area. i saved the game and turned off the computer, during the storm. after the storm passed, i loaded up the save and continued. is this a problem? does it raise a flag to the ones that check submitted savegames?
i also have days where i will play in the morning, at midday and in the evening, saving and turning off the computer inbetween each session of that day. should i stay away from doing this?

Takeo-
All of the things you list are standard parts of playing the game. The only problem to worry about is if you are playing 1 or 2 turns, then saving and restarting.

As we are on the honor system, just play by the rules, and don't worry about tripping some flag.

jeffelammar-
there are times when i play around 6-8 turns, when the turns are getting kind of long. i try to play for at least 2 hours when i play.

I just realized that you can make quite a lot of money as follows: Sell your World Map to all of the AIs for 1 gold each. Then move a unit (maybe a galley) one space, to discover some new territory, and sell your WM to all of the AIs again for 1g each. Then move again and sell again. Repeat until you get totally bored. It doesn't sound like much, but if there are 15 AIs, and you do this 10 times/turn, that's 150gpt, if you have the patience!

Should this be illegal? Or legal but just silly?

DaviddesJ,

Selling maps for chump change is a known (albeit VERY tedious) to net yourself 6-10gpt. Many people do this; it is a matter of preference.

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
I just realized that you can make quite a lot of money as follows: Sell your World Map to all of the AIs for 1 gold each. Then move a unit (maybe a galley) one space, to discover some new territory, and sell your WM to all of the AIs again for 1g each. Then move again and sell again. Repeat until you get totally bored. It doesn't sound like much, but if there are 15 AIs, and you do this 10 times/turn, that's 150gpt, if you have the patience!

Should this be illegal? Or legal but just silly?
I realized that after GOTM20 (when I was trying to get all the gold possible). It goes like this. Beginning of turn see who you can trade your WM to. If a civ only offers their WM then they have something new in their map. If a civ offers gold then you have all of their map. Sell map to all civs who offer you gold. Then sell to one of them that offers their map. Sometimes you want to trade with the poorest civ, sometime the richest. It depends on if the civs are all exploring and if they are not trading maps. If there are many new maps then you should sell to the richest first because each time you buy a new map you can sell it to the first civ again. If everyone's map is the same then you want to trade for it with the poorest civ so that you can sell it to the others. In some cases you can make money by buying a civs WM and then selling it to the others. I call this Robinhooding the map because you give 1g to the poor AI and then collect 1g from each of the other AI.

OK. That was just the first step. Now you need to change you map. Things that change your map include fog busting, settling a new town, razing a town, capturing a town, losing a town, terrain improvements completing, etc. Do ONE of the things and then resell your map for 1g to all AI that have gold. If you're a good driver you can uncover black with each of your three galley moves, each of your two scout/horse moves. Remember to sell maps between each map move. Don't forget to sell before and after you settle. It's very time consuming. I never finished GOTM20 on time. I think this is one of the reasons why.

Chump change? If you are only netting 20 gpt from your civ at that stage in the game then getting an extra 7gpt for WMs contributes significantly to your income.

I do it in about every 4 or 5 turns. Just buy a WM from one Civ for about 8 gold then immediately sell it to the rest of the world for anywhere between 5 to 12 gold. If there are at least 10 other civs in the game, I could make an extra 50 gold or more just like that.;)

Actually, the AI's are bankrupt most of the time in my game.
Since I check every turn for new techs I sell the maps and accept whatever they offer. I end up with 3-4 g per turn in GOTM 21.

Every once in a while I sell a tech and get some more map that I sell for about 25g that turn.

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
I just realized that you can make quite a lot of money as follows: Sell your World Map to all of the AIs for 1 gold each. Then move a unit (maybe a galley) one space, to discover some new territory, and sell your WM to all of the AIs again for 1g each. Then move again and sell again. Repeat until you get totally bored. It doesn't sound like much, but if there are 15 AIs, and you do this 10 times/turn, that's 150gpt, if you have the patience!

Should this be illegal? Or legal but just silly?

At one point during the present game I was selling first the TM then the WM to each of the 15 AI who had money and netting between 22 and 24 gtp, it never occured to me to reveal more map and do it all over again. When I sell the WM I ask for their WM in addition to the gold offered and as long as my WM is the most current they always give me the deal. Moonsinger is right about waiting a few turns between attempts as you get much more than 1 gold per attempt.

If one of the things the GOTMs are supposed to do is challenge players, then the challenge of dealing with "dysfunctional" (i.e., difficult) game starts is (or should be) part of that. If we can't have "difficult" starts because it's too hard on the beginning players, I hope we can find ways to make the Predator games, at least, more difficult. Even if this might require in some cases more significant changes between Open and Predator (e.g., map changes).

I think your dreams are about to be answered Daviddesj. How does a predator game at demi-GOD or Sid level grab ya? Although I am thinking that demi-God is probably a stepping stone between Emperor and Diety with only one new harder level at Sid.

I'm pretty certain (most people would say "certain" or "99.999% certain", me, I just say "pretty certain" :)) that the amount of gold the AI offers is directly related to the number of tiles revealed in your map that are not revealed in their map. This means the number of turns elapsed between trades doesn't matter, except that they might "learn" your new tiles themselves or by trading with other AIs.

Originally posted by samildanach

Although I am thinking that demi-God is probably a stepping stone between Emperor and Diety with only one new harder level at Sid.

So am I! It would be pretty strange if demi-god (half god) would be more difficult than deity (god)... :)

So am I! It would be pretty strange if demi-god (half god) would be more difficult than deity (god)...

Yep it would be. But the Gamespot article isnt clear on it. I think it makes sense to have another level in between diety and emperor as there is a quite a gulf between the two levels.

Agreed. The jump between emperor and deity is pretty big....

Originally posted by Dianthus
I'm pretty certain (most people would say "certain" or "99.999% certain", me, I just say "pretty certain" :)) that the amount of gold the AI offers is directly related to the number of tiles revealed in your map that are not revealed in their map. This means the number of turns elapsed between trades doesn't matter, except that they might "learn" your new tiles themselves or by trading with other AIs.
Normally there is a few tiles per gold piece. If you move your galley all three moves and sell your WM, you still only get 1g for it. But if you move-sell-move-sell-move-sell you get 3g total. That's the "exploit".

Originally posted by Bam-Bam
Selling maps for chump change is a known (albeit VERY tedious) to net yourself 6-10gpt. Many people do this; it is a matter of preference.

I think you're missing the point. It's not just 6-10gpt. You can get more or less that much by selling your maps less frequently, and getting a few gold from each civ for them. The point is that you can get much larger amounts, like 100gpt, because even when you uncover just one space, every civ will still give you the minimum of 1 gold for that new map. So instead of moving all of your units, and then getting 1 gold from each civ, you can move a single unit one space, get 1 gold from each civ, move again, get 1 gold from each civ again, over and over and over. You're getting a much larger amount because of the practice of the AI to "round up", and give you 1g even if the formula would say that your map is only worth 0.1g to them.

I think you're missing the point. It's not just 6-10gpt.

Well actually doing the move-sellWM-move etc stunt may net you alot of gold at first but it does tend to resolve itself into the sort of numbers Bam-Bam is talking about. Of course this depends on the map- a huge map, lots of barbs and if you happen to have bagged the Great Lighthouse then the sort of numbers you are talking about Daviddesj are possible to maintain.
The question that I think that most players would like to have answered is not how to bankrupt the AIs or use them as cash cows (this is far to easy at all levels) but how to control the way in which AI rivals spend their gold. In the previous GoTMs where I have done everything within my power to help them ie. gifting techs, not helping myself to their money and workers they have been next to useless at helping my tech rate- I went for diplos incidentally.
The galley/scout stunt is well known in all it tediuos variations as Bam-Bam points out (although I dont doubt you could come up with a new wrinkle on it) is it worth the time?

I wanted to replay some of the best QSC from GOTM20 but the resources icons have been changed by GOTM21 installation package. As an example cow disapppeared in GOTM20.

Is there anything (easy) I can do to be able to play GOTM20 again?

Your resource icons for gtom20 should be stored inside the folder named "resources_storage".

For players still in v1.29 you have to master the simple process of swapping the resource files in and out as outlined in the text file named something like "Swapping the Resource Files.txt"

You can swap back and forth in just seconds as longs as you maintain folders with copies of the original graphics as well as the gepraphics versions from any games you choose to use.

It worked
Thanks

Originally posted by Mark Cutt
Is there anything (easy) I can do to be able to play GOTM20 again?
If you are using PTW it should just happen, so I'll assume you are using 1.29f.

I don't know how easy you need it to be, but on my Mac it would be a two step process:

1. Move the two GOTM21 files called resources.pcx and resources_shadows.pcx from your civ3\art\ directory into an empty subfolder that should be in the same directory called "resources storage\GOTM21xxxxxx\". xxxxx will be "plain", "w. blips", or "w smilies and blips". If none of these GOTM21 subfolders are empty then you don't need to move these files as there are already copies in each of them. Just delete them instead.

Then find the "resources storage\GOTM20 xxxxxxx\" folders in Civ3\art\ and choose a pair of the same two file names according to whether you want smilies and/or blips, and copy those files up into the Civ3\art\ directory.

Here's a picture of my directory structure and the moves involved:

Thank you AlanH

Question for [ptw] version: If I build an outpost in the middle of no where and leave no military unit near by, does the outpost prevent barbarian hut popping up?

Question for version: If I build an outpost in the middle of no where and leave no military unit near by, does it prevent barbarian hut popping up?

Hmmm.. Why would a self-confessed barb harvester be interested in suppressing barb villages ? Oh.... I... get it !
You want the outposts to give you earlier targetting info on where the barbs are. Helping you get those lovely veteran and elite upgrades.
I dont know the answer to your question having never built an outpost in either vanilla or PTW but I look forward to someone answering it.

I think barbarian huts only appear where the shroud covers the map (i.e., spaces you don't have current visibility of). Whether you have combat vs noncombat units in the area is irrelevant (i.e., a worker or settler will keep them away, too).

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
I think barbarian huts only appear where the shroud covers the map (i.e., spaces you don't have current visibility of). Whether you have combat vs noncombat units in the area is irrelevant (i.e., a worker or settler will keep them away, too).

I have thought about that, but then remember that when I post a worker on top of a mountain which give me the visibility of the surrounding area, barb camp sometimes pop right ontop of my worker; therefore, my question still remain: Does the visibility of the outpost behave like the visibility of the worker unit or military unit?

Originally posted by Moonsinger
I have thought about that, but then remember that when I post a worker on top of a mountain which give me the visibility of the surrounding area, barb camp sometimes pop right on top of my worker

Really?? I'm very surprised. Do you have a savefile that shows this?

Perhaps I've been lucky, but this has never happened to me.

Yes I am too DDJ. I have never seen this but then again I haven't been playing as long as Moonsinger-few people have.

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
Really?? I'm very surprised. Do you have a savefile that shows this?

Perhaps I've been lucky, but this has never happened to me.

Yes, I have fully tested that theory a while back. Basically, I filled a region of the map with workers and left no military unit near by. Guess what? Barb camp popped right on top of my worker. The worker was killed instantly, of course.

Barb camps can't appear in your culture borders or the visible tiles next to them. They also can't appear within 2 squares of a military unit, regardless of its visibility.

Anything else is fair game.

Thanks Dave:)

Originally posted by DaveMcW
Barb camps can't appear in your culture borders or the visible tiles next to them. They also can't appear within 2 squares of a military unit, regardless of its visibility.

Anything else is fair game.

Thank you Dave.:) So basically, the visibility of the outpost (just like the worker) does not prevent barb camp from appearing. Other than the extra offensive and defensive bonus, the outpost is "almost" useless.;) I guess that will go the same for the Radar Tower too.

Outposts are turned off in all GOTM games by basically taking every possible terrain location and saying it does not allow outposts to be built.

Barb camps will not spawn in any square that is within ythe cultural borders of any civilization or +1 additional square of the culture border regardless if these zones are covered by military unit visibility.

In other areas of the map, barb camps will not spawn within visibility of military unit with +1 A or D value.

I have seen barbs spawn immediately under workers, settlers, scouts, and catapults.

Originally posted by samildanach
Hmmm.. Why would a self-confessed barb harvester be interested in suppressing barb villages ? Oh.... I... get it !
You want the outposts to give you earlier targetting info on where the barbs are. Helping you get those lovely veteran and elite upgrades.

You have figured me out.;) Now I know for sure that the outpost can be of great benefit.:) I assume that even if barb camp pop right ontop of the outpost, the outpost won't be destroyed (the same with road and other impovement outside of our culture border - the barbs have never destroyed those).

Originally posted by cracker
I have seen barbs spawn immediately under workers, settlers, scouts, and catapults.

....had this happen to me in GOTM19 - Very frustrating. :(

I have seen barbs spawn immediately under workers, settlers, scouts, and catapults.

And all this time I've been putting out naked settlers with roaming and raging barbs at suitable windows of opportuinity. Not appreciating that a barb village could pop under one of them-if I had known I would have been sweating even more bullets:eek:



Now I know for sure that the outpost can be of great benefit.

Doesn't look like we are going to be able to use it in the GoTM though Moonsinger :sad:

Originally posted by samildanach
Doesn't look like we are going to be able to use it in the GoTM though Moonsinger :sad:

Oh well, there will always be some other game beside the GOTM.;)

Expereinced CivFans - is there a thread on transport relay tactics? I've had a quick browse of the War Academy and can't seem to find one.

I'm asking because I've got a very nice example to post, but if it's already been covered I can concentrate on other tasks.

Cracker has one in his Opening Play series. I think it's his Egypt vs Japan account.

Ciao!

I've just finished and submitted my GOTM 21 (first one!).
How come that my score was not inserted in my local Hall of Fame?
It seems like I didn't finish the game.
Is that normal?

Thanks,

Stefano

Originally posted by burkina
Ciao!

I've just finished and submitted my GOTM 21 (first one!).
How come that my score was not inserted in my local Hall of Fame?
It seems like I didn't finish the game.
Is that normal?

Thanks,

Stefano

That's because the GOTM's are modded (altered) games.
Only non-modded games get into your HoF...

Thank you Darkness.
I suspected this....
Alas! It was my best performance so far!

Stefano

Originally posted by burkina
Thank you Darkness.
I suspected this....
Alas! It was my best performance so far!

Stefano
Don't worry about your local HOF, the GOTM results and Global Player Ranking are much more important anyway ;).

Originally posted by burkina
Thank you Darkness.
I suspected this....
Alas! It was my best performance so far!

Stefano

The HOF entries are stored in a file called something like 'highscores.civ' or something like that, next to the game executable.
You can just open that with notepad and add your own entry. You'll have to experiment a bit to understand the meaning of each number in an entry.
Good luck !

I must be blind, but how do I find an old thread, specifically, Moonsinger's tech trading exersize? I don't think it was that long ago, yet it is not on any of the first 4 pages of threads in my settings.

Question: Let's say I have ROP with CivA and CivA has MPP with CivB. Now, it just happen that my SOD are currently camping at the heart of CivA. If I attack CivB which causes CivA to break ROP with me and declares war on me, do I get a rep hit in this case? I think not! What do you think?

____

drewshark,

My trading exersize is on the second page (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54088&pagenumber=1).

Moonsinger...I think you are right...you would not take a rep hit...this would be a pretty evil way of skirting ROP abuse. ;)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
If I attack CivB which causes CivA to break ROP with me and declares war on me, do I get a rep hit in this case?
I think this is a delicious idea :cool:

Originally posted by SirPleb
I think this is a delicious idea :cool:

Thanks SirPleb!:) Sorry Rabies...I know it is a little bit evil but I must try it out just to be sure. While waiting for an answer, I went ahead and tried it last night in GOTM21 (sorry, can't say much about that), but let me put it this way: It worked wonderfully!:) Best of all, their reputation went down the drain while my reputation is still crystal clear.

Now, it just happen that my SOD are currently camping at the heart of CivA.

In the Realms Beyond rules for epics, they call that trick "Spousal Abuse." (They consider it an exploit and disallow it.)

Originally posted by Moonsinger


Thanks SirPleb!:) Sorry Rabies...I know it is a little bit evil but I must try it out just to be sure. While waiting for an answer, I went ahead and tried it last night in GOTM21 (sorry, can't say much about that), but let me put it this way: It worked wonderfully!:) Best of all, their reputation went down the drain while my reputation is still crystal clear.

How do you check their reputation?

Originally posted by Puzzlinon
In the Realms Beyond rules for epics, they call that trick "Spousal Abuse." (They consider it an exploit and disallow it.)

Well, different kingdom has different rule. If the GOTM staffs decide to disallow it, that's fine with me (I just won't submit my GOTM21).

-----

Svar,

Your advisor will tell you about the reputation of those you wish to deal with.

Excellent Moonsinger! I'll have to keep this tidbit tucked away for a rainy day.

I definately think it is allowed in the GOTM..since ROP abuse is allowed right? I've never used it in a GOTM myself, but I've never had problems with it like many seem to. I only wish they had programmed a chance the AI would do it to the human player! Think of how much more you would get emotianally invested into a game where a former ally turns on you and sacks multiple cities!

Originally posted by rabies
Excellent Moonsinger! I'll have to keep this tidbit tucked away for a rainy day.


As Puzzlinon alludes to, you can find a list of many "exploitative" tactics, like this one, on the Realms Beyond site:

http://www.realmsbeyond.net/civ/etactics.html

It's up to you to decide which ones to use (unless you're playing there), but if you're looking for such ideas, this list will probably give you several.

I've actually played several of their games (playing rb32 right now) so i am pretty familiar with them. Most of them are fairly intuitive...and i've always followed the guidelines when playing their games. I think some of them are not really there because they consider them 'abuse', but simply there to make the game more challenging for them. Clearly, designers wanted us to use privateers and nukes...or they would not be in the game. yet they disallow both of them (or consider them dastardly).

Thanks to moonsinger's experiment, I now know that 'spousal abuse' does not cause a rep hit.

Originally posted by rabies
I definately think it is allowed in the GOTM..since ROP abuse is allowed right? I've never used it in a GOTM myself, but I've never had problems with it like many seem to.

Yes, I have seen many ROP violation from other GOTM players before and it was ok with the rules of the GOTM. I myself have never broken any ROP. About this incident, it was unintentional. My stack of doom was on their ways to attack CivB and I honestly needed ROP with CivA so I could deal with CivB. Please note that I have signed ROP with CivA and have my troops camping deep inside CivA and near the border of CivB long before CivA signed MPP with CivB. Since I was there first and long before they formed their MPP, I wasn't trying to abuse my ROP. In this case, if I am playing an Epic game or having extra game time, I will take 4 extra turns to withdraw all my troops from CivA before go to war with CivB. Since I am running out of time and the GOTM rule allow it, and I need to test a new theory, I hope you guys would understand why I do not have the urge to follow the Realm Beyond rules while playing the GOTM.

I only wish they had programmed a chance the AI would do it to the human player! Think of how much more you would get emotianally invested into a game where a former ally turns on you and sacks multiple cities!

I have seen the AIs using this trick all the time (because I discovered this trick on my own by watching how the AIs play); however, the AIs don't do it in a grand scale like we do. And yes, I also have seen the Zulus to position their multiple stack of doom of over 30 units near my capital before they broke their ROP with me (not in any GOTM of course).:(

I read in this FAQ thread about MapStat. I would be most thrilled to have one that works with my system. I visited the download section for utility programs but my stupidity and thread's whimsical nature stopped me, I think, from finding what I need (desperately): MapStat for Windows that can load up ptw 1.21 files and gotm-files for domination analysis. I saw that Sirpleb was active in contributing to the mapStat, with his hugely impressive gaming experience. SirPleb, help, HELP!! :aargh: Where is my knight in shining armour? Do you know, or anyone else, of course, where to find a correct version of this, seemingly great, utility? Tons of thanks in advance!

@worlddomination

The MapStat thread is > here < (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18243)

You'll need to trawl through it for the latest alpha version :)


Have fun

Ted

Thanks, TedJackson!

It was not a Canadian knight in plate mail who came to my rescue. Even better, a Celtic paladin stepped in and saved the day! :lol: I found the alpha version and it worked beautifully, with both european ptw 1.21 and recent gotm-files! What a great tool!

Once again, cheers for everything

I have a question Regarding submition of games.

Do I have to submit a game that I lost on?

You don't HAVE to - but actually you get a few points towards your rating for a loss, and you get none for no submission.

Your choice CivGeneral - but it does make sense to submit a loss.

For PTW 1.21 : in Gotm21 I opted for the standard resources, rather than the blips and smilies. After installing the Gotm22 add-on, I suppose my resource-preference is left untouched ? Just asking to be sure.

Originally posted by Ambiorix
For PTW 1.21 : in Gotm21 I opted for the standard resources, rather than the blips and smilies. After installing the Gotm22 add-on, I suppose my resource-preference is left untouched ? Just asking to be sure.
I haven't installed GOTM22 yet, so don't know for sure, but the previous GOTM's had the resources in a separate scenarios directory name GOTM20/GOTM21. Assuming GOTM22 follows the same method, you'll have to move the resources around in the GOTM22 directory.

I don't know what thread to put this in, but someone please help. I just started the Viking game. WHAT IS TREASURE?????? The civilopedia was no help at all. What do I do with treasure? It can move, that's all I know. Again, sorry if this is in the wrong thread, but I don't want to play further unless I know what's going on.

You are playing the conquest class (and should indicate so in your posts). Go to the GOTM page and look at the conquest bonuses. The chest can be disbanded for 10shields. Use them too build units or buildings. Note that they don't work for wonders. Some have used them to explore also but they will be stolen by barbs if you're not careful.

Originally posted by MSU 1978
I don't know what thread to put this in, but someone please help. I just started the Viking game. WHAT IS TREASURE?????? The civilopedia was no help at all. What do I do with treasure? It can move, that's all I know. Again, sorry if this is in the wrong thread, but I don't want to play further unless I know what's going on.
The main aim of Treasure is to be used to add some shields to a city. Just move the Treasure to a city, then disband it. 10 (I think) shields will then be added to whatever you're building (as long as it's not a wonder).

As a side benefit, Treasure can also be used to do some initial exploring. Just be aware that it has no defense, so if you see a barb start running!

Well put Dianthus!

Originally posted by MSU 1978
I don't know what thread to put this in, but someone please help. I just started the Viking game. WHAT IS TREASURE?????? The civilopedia was no help at all. What do I do with treasure? It can move, that's all I know. Again, sorry if this is in the wrong thread, but I don't want to play further unless I know what's going on.

Their only function in life it to be disbanded to provide shields for a unit or improvement build. So once you put them in the city you want and have the production you want, just disband them.

Thank you very much, that's very good to know.

Sorry about saying for you to go to the GOTM website. It's not there.

I dug through the old threads and found the original thread for GOTM20 when Conquest class was announced. Enjoy!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53480

After you pick the link for either Civ3 or PTW on the GOTM22 start page, there's a link in the first paragraph (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm22_features.shtml) to a page that discusses the different classes and their bonuses.

There are a number of less than optimal screenshots showing up probably from lack of knowledge, so here's some 411 on screenshots:

For a minimap screenshot don't do it from the main screen. You get the white box showing up.
Hit F3 (the military adivisor screen) and then make sure your mouse pointer is on the right, so you don't get the x,y coordinate lines.

Since many ask what to do next:

From the F3 screen with the mouse on the right, hit your printscreen button. (Or hit the printscreen on whatever you want to capture.)
Open MSpaint, PaintShopPro, or any other imaging program. There are many free ones on the net--just do a search.
Paste the image that is hiding on your clipboard (from hitting printscreen) into your imaging program. [Some allow you to turn on screenshots and then you hit a hotkey which puts the screenshot right in the imaging program].
Now crop out everything that isn't needed. Remember, the smaller the better.
You can now resize the image to 50% or 75% or whatever if your imaging program allows. Again, the smaller the better.
Add some text if you like. Pic a font/color/size that is easy to read, but as small as possible.
Some pictures look better if you now add a size 1 black border.
Now save it as a .jpeg and compress it some (like 20 or 30).

It's easy to then post this picture by clicking on the browse button on the reply message screen here. You can also upload them using the easy file upload, noting the URL, and then clicking on the IMG button near the top of the reply message screen if you want multiple pics in the same post.

Sometimes those of us with high speed internet forget about the people with slow modems and post enormous pics.
Sometime we post pics that are too w i d e. Please crop/resize your pics to about 650 or 700 pixels wide (or much less). This lets everyone scroll down through the posts without having to also scroll right and then back left again.

There are many ways to take great screenshots. This is one just one of them. Good luck and happy screenshot taking!

My windows XP and win2k (maybe others) computer came with its own "paint" program that works (look under accessories for paint).

One trick I found with this program is to save the format as jpg before resizing. The reason is that the writing gets messed up if you scale in the bmp format, but works better in the jpg format. It seems if you save as jpg first, you "change formats" to jpg and then when you scale and resave, you don't get the errors.

So:
Use the print screen button in Civ.
Start paint under the accessories menu.
use ctrl-v to paste.
Use "save as" and save it as a jpg image.
Select "stretch/skew" under the image menu and set the image size to 800 by 600 or smaller (75% or smaller for height and width stretch)
Save it again now that you have rescaled it.

For taking just a part of the image I:
Use the print screen button in Civ.
Start paint under the accessories menu.use ctrl-v to paste
use the selection box and ctrl-c to get a part of the image.
choose new (I would save the full image the first few times thru in case something goes wrong)
use ctrl-v to paste.

One problem I run into is that the image can include a lot of white space if the image is smaller than the initial image size and I don't know if you can easily get rid of it. If this happens, then:
Choose new
Go to attributes under the image menu item and make the width and height 10 by 10
use ctrl-v to paste your image (answer yes on making the window bigger to match the picture). It grows the window size to match your picture.
Save it as jpg

This program is not the best progam to use as it is a bit clumsy and primitive, but it has the advantage that for at least some windows computers, it is already there and you don't have to search for another program to do it. It may not have jpg format for earlier versions (the paint for win95?)

There's a nifty little freeware program that's called deskscan. Look it up on the internet and use it for screenshots. It allows you to take a pic of an area rather than the whole screen. www.dpaehl.de (go to english programs and scroll down to deskscan)

The nice thing about this program is it can capture just a portion of the screen, say just the minimap, or just the F11 demographics.

I use it all the time.

Credit to Anarres for pointing out the tool to me.

Go to attributes under the image menu item and make the width and height 10 by 10
use ctrl-v to paste your image (answer yes on making the window bigger to match the picture). It grows the window size to match your picture.

The way I have done it is similar. If you paste a full screen that is over the 800 easily viewable size you can select the area you want and cut it. Go to attributes and clear the image. Paste the cut image on the now very large white sheet and you will see your image with a large white area to the right and bottom. Move your cursor to the very bottom right hand corner of your image and you will see the x,y cooridinates of that point. Now got to attributes and set the size to match those cooridinates and you are done.

Save it at a jpg.

With the addition of the tournament and associated stuff the GOTM threads page is becoming a mess making it easy to overlook interesting threads when visiting. I think this page needs to be reorganised in some way so its easier to find stuff.

I'm having a bit of trouble starting my first GOTM. I've read the FAQ and the intro page, and I followed what it said to do.

I first download the files for GOTM 21 and installed them, then downloaded the files for GOTM 23 and installed them. Then I downloaded the save file that was listed in the README file (the medium difficulty file), but when I tried loading it I got a message saying it couldn't be opened. Did I forget to do something? Any help would be appreciated. My game has the latest patch, 1.29.

AFAIK you need the game-packs from GOTM21, 22 AND 23 for 1.29f to play GOTM23.

Where can I get the install pack that loads all of the Mod packs for the GOTM, since I am going to install Civ3 onto my laptop so I can play the GOTM on my idle time.

Thanks

CivGeneral:
Just go to the GOTM main page, then to GOTM21 page and download the full install for your particular software version.

I just wanted to start GOTM with Civ 3-1.29f on my laptop, so I downloaded and installed the files for 21 and 23 (like the instructions said)
Im fine when I load 23, but my resource icons go all screwy when I start a new random game. (gold looks like clams, cattle looks like rocks, etc...)

I tried unstalling, then reinstalling the game, then reinstalling 21 and 23, but it didn't work.
Is there any way to fix this? Or do i just have to uninstall and reinstall the game and not do GOTM to play random games w/o screwy icons.
or is mycomputer just wacky? (Its hard to believe such an awesome website could make suck a mistake)
Thank you for any help
Ender, Dragon Army

Go to Civilization III\Art\resources storage\gotm21_before and copy the two files you find there to Civilization III\Art. Override when asked

To play GOTM again, goto Civilization III\Art\resources storage\gotm21 w smilies and blips and copy the two files to Civilization III\Art. Override when asked.

Hope this helps.

I just tried my first GOTM (#22 but not submitting this one). Wonderful map and concept, but I just had a city pass the 20k mark and did not get a cultural victory. I played a few more turns to see if it would happen, but no luck. Does anyone know the reason for this?

bradley,

Since game 22 is closed for submissions, why don't you try tacking on a post about this game at the end of the last spoiler thread for that game.

If you can upload a copy of your save file and link it to the post them someone can take a look at you game and help you.

All posts about specific games should be included in the spoiler discussions for those games.

Welcome to the games, and lets see what mystery you have have found.

I sometimes trigger GAs (purposely and accidentally) with wonder-building, but am not sure about the precise triggers. I do know that building a single wonder which applies to both of a civ's traits will trigger a GA, and that building two civ-specific wonders in the same age generates a GA.

But is a GA also triggered if the wonders span two or more eras - say, Pyramids and Smith's?

Or if one of these wonders is captured rather than built?

Txurce--check out this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64613).

From what I recall--if you build wonder(s) that encompass both of your civ's traits--you get a GA. You can also get that same GA from captured wonders--with the only caveat being that you have to build another wonder to trigger the GA (the game checks the trait flags for all owned wonders when you build one).

Originally posted by bradleyfeanor
I just tried my first GOTM (#22 but not submitting this one). Wonderful map and concept, but I just had a city pass the 20k mark and did not get a cultural victory. I played a few more turns to see if it would happen, but no luck. Does anyone know the reason for this?
I've seen a situation where the F5 reported total for a city was NOT equal to the culture values of the buildings in that city. It was slightly more. I thought maybe it was a one-off error somewhere in my software or game, but a GOTM#22 player reported the same problem as you, and as a result he failed to submit his game. He was actually within half a dozen turns of victory :cry:

He uploaded his game and I had a look at it, and confirmed that he had the same problem. Clearly the game uses the actual sum of building culture to decide when the trigger fires, and not the false sum displayed in F5.

If you have Excel, you can easily check it by using the 20K culture calculator in my sig, as long as you know when your anarchy periods were. The calculator seems to be accurate AFAICT. My guess is you'll find the 20K win will be triggered in a few more turns.

Thanks, Bam-bam. I assume that they don't have to be built in the same era, either.

@Txurce,

for more info check out the erudite discussion in the gotmXXIV speculation thread.

Boyd, you mean the speculation I'd been avoiding, waiting for the actual starting position? Okay, you twisted my arm.

What's the trick where you can rush something on the same turn the pertinent tech is researched, rather than waiting for the next turn? I recall that it was something having to do with one of the screens.

Example: I research mysticism, and want to use a Leader to get the Oracle - but I want to get the Oracle that turn, rather than on the next one.

After Mysticism comes in go to big picture. From there you get the science advisor screen. Then you can select domestic Advisor and go to your cities to change to what you want to build. I am not sure but I think you can only swap what you are building and you cannot access any units, like your leader.

As hotrod said, you can navigate to the Domestic Advisor by clicking the "What's the Big Picture?" button upon learning a new tech.

Clicking on a city in the lower portion of the Domestic Advisor panel will give you access to the city management screen where you can rush a project (with cash or population) and have it complete before the beginning of your next turn. You can also switch a prebuilt project to a structure available with the new tech (ie. switch a university to a bank upon learning Banking), and if there are enough stored shields, the item will complete immediately rather than the next turn. A common usage of this trick is to swap a nearly completed Palace to the UN on the same turn that you learn Fission, and have it complete immediately.

Thanks, guys. The UN example is a lot more pertinent, isn't it?

Isn't this similar to the Gold Mine exploit which is prohibited. See the Rules here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/gen/rules2.shtml

To my eyes,the similarity is only skin deep. The gold mine exploit allows a city to provide two benefits in one turn - clearly against the rules. The example described above accomplishes only one thing - it just does it one turn early. As such, it seems to fall into that large category of exploits ranging from RCP to RoP abuse to palace jumps which remain legal.

It's also worth noting that I heard about this trick right here in the GOTM forum, so cracker has had the opportunity to say it's illegal. Unless he says so now, I'm going to assume it's business as usual.

Using scroll ahead to alter tiles being worked is a bit more than just changing projects. I have used the "big picture" in GOTM before to get the Laser Lounge on the same turn that the laser comes in. It is definitely within the GOTM rules and I believe there was some discussion on it previously. For RBCiv Epics any use of Scroll ahead "between turns" is prohibited. I think the only time Scroll ahead is allowed at RBCiv is for happiness checks following revolutions, or WW issues.

I agree that exploits such as ship chaining, palace jumps and RCP are more exploitive than this and those are allowed. I just chose not to use them.

I gonna play GOTM for the first time. But I can not find initial saves on the GOTM24 page. Could somebody put a link for them?

Could somebody maybe put a sticky thread up that says

"There is a link to the save file on the last page of the installation"

Geesh.

Originally posted by ControlFreak
Could somebody maybe put a sticky thread up that says

"There is a link to the save file on the last page of the installation"

Geesh.
ControlFreak is right about the link to the save file, but he forgot to say "Hi Lamprey, welcome to GOTM + <insert other welcoming comments to new person here>" :)

Seriously though, cracker deliberately avoids putting the link to the .SAV file up on the site so that you are forced to install the update first and read the instructions supplied with them. You did read the instructions right? ;)

Lamprey@ Welcome to the GOTM, and congratulations on your first post to CFC. I'm very sorry for the harshness of my previous post. It was rude and seemingly pointed at you. There have been a lot of posts this month in just about every GOTM thread asking where the save can be found. I guess I need more sleep or something else to lower my intolerance.

The GOTM game is very fun and I hope you find the save and enjoy the experience. This one in particular seems very special.

Dianthus@ Thanks for the reminder.

When ever I am browsing the forums here, my computer starts to lag EXTREMELY bad. Doesn't happen on any other sites. Anybody know why? And if it is something I have to fix, suggestions needed.

Thanks,

Riccett

Hello,

I fell hopelessly behind in GOTM 24 and decided to retire in 640 AD or so since it was too boring and painful to carry on. (Early mistakes by me doomed me; it was actually a great game, but at the end I just couldn't make anything of it.) When I went to submit my horrible save there was no option for loss by retiring. Should I submit the save?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Puppeteer
Should I submit the save?
You have to lose first, then you can submit a score with a specific defeat condition. You need to avoid losing any of your score in the process. The quickest way I know is to disband all your units, abandon your cities, and declare war on everyone.

Originally posted by AlanH

You have to lose first, then you can submit a score with a specific defeat condition. You need to avoid losing any of your score in the process. The quickest way I know is to disband all your units, abandon your cities, and declare war on everyone. Thanks for the info. I might try that. Then again I might wait and see if I get the patience to play some more turns. I'm pretty much doomed, but I may be able to make something of it if I have a lot of patience. And I haven't had any spoiler info I shouldn't have and didn't learn anything from retiring, so I'll wait a few more days and see if I want to lose how you said or play some more turns.

I am looking for the chart that was posted the first month of all the new resources...(July I think). It listed what each one was...the F/S/G for each when mined and irrigated etc. Can anyone else or send me to the proper thread?

Does this help?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SG23-resource-table.gif

Excuse the copyright. TedJackson added that to the gif before posting it in his thread.

EDIT: The asterisk means that the despotism penalty was deducted. If you're out of despotism, these* numbers will be +1 higher.

thanks...i appreciate the help.....It's been a few months and i'm trying to get back in gotm

Welcome back drewshark. How's that new (boy, right?)? A big time drain huh? My twins are now 1.5 and it's starting to get a bit easier. Everyone is in bed by 9PM and sleep all night!

CF & DS,

Congrates on the new ones, mine will be 2 in January. If I could get him to bed before 10pm, I'd get a little more Civ time (sleep is for weenies :D ).

DenyD

I have never played a GOTM, but I am interested in playing old ones. I have some questions:

1. In the GOTM webpages, only GOTM up to #17 is available (along the left side of the screen). Are the older ones available? Where do I find them?

2. Is there a place where they are all listed along with info I might need to decide which one to play (like difficulty and extra required downloads).

3. Are some not suggested (for any reason) ?

Slax,

First, welcome to GOTM (and say goodbye to sleep) and a little history.

The GOTM staff went through a reload at the end of last year.
Here is a link to the original teams archive page:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3gotm/civ3gotm_archive.shtml

You'll find some of these games were at earlier releases of Civ.

Some of them (the Iroquois & Babylonian games come to mind) were very challenging. There wasn't as much prep time put into those games and sometimes the map layout made victory for the average player impossible.

Starting with the Romans in GOTM 16 the new staff, began more focused games. They also began creating PTW games and pseudo AI's for the Civ3 players to use to play along.

Beginning with GOTM 21 (Med Melee), more uploads were required to play, a new AI (Minoans w/ Peltast UU) was made available, new resources (wool, olives...) were added. Also the different levels of games (Conquest/Open/Predator) were added to bring balance among the players.

Recently, the GOTM staff took over managing what was once called the Tournament games (now called Medal Play). These games are a more of the traditional style and do not require the uploads.

The most recent GOTM (Korea) introduced many new AI's as well as quite a number of replacement (Asian stlye) units and technologies, that brought a lot of new flavors to the game.

I've found that the the GOTM forum, with it's associated games and chat can pretty much devour as much time as you will let it.

Enjoy and welcome to the club

:beer:

I don't know if this is right place to ask this but figured someone would know the answer. Is there a quick way to check the diplo screens with each rival AI? I have at last woken up to the importance of checking every AI every turn, but it is very tedious, and I would welcome any suggestions as to how to minimize the effort. With the large number of civs in gotm 25 I found F4 unhelpful as it was even slower than mouse clicking on the little diplo button.

In [ptw] you can use the Ctrl+Shift+d to bring up the diplo screen. I tend to use the escape key quite a bit to exit out of the diplo with one civ, then press Ctrl+Shift+d to go to the next one.

It's a pain. Here's the modus operandi I have evolved to deal with it:

I use F4 to get into the leader screen, then click each leader in turn. I go clockwise from my right, usually. If there are more than seven rivals I put the six most significant ones on the first six positions and I use the last position to run through the extra ones using shift-right click. When you are running down a long list in the shift-right click menu - as in the current game, for example - remember the next civ in the menu after the one you are selecting, as that will be the one you want to visit next. The last one you visited is not in the list as a marker.

About the only real *shortcut* I know that might help is always to leave something on the table - usually his world map, or 1 gold before Mapmaking - and then hit escape to return to the F4 screen. Then next time you visit the civ you get straight to the table without going through the "Hello" screen. Even if I conclude a deal I'll go back and leave a token on the table for this purpose.

I use Escape a lot for exiting all the adviser screens. It's easy to find on my keyboard - a small but important point when even the matchsticks are failing to keep your eyelids apart and you've become immune to caffeine.

AlanH and Dianthus
Thanks for the great advice. It all helps to make the game slightly less arduous.:goodjob:

Question on game rules in OCC applied to GOTM.

In MPS6 I have decided to play OCC for all possible games.

6-1 diplomacy-win.
6-2 100-impossible.
6-3 domination-impossible.
6-4 conquest.
6-5 Space Race.

If I have correctly understood, playing OCC it is impossible:

1. To build army.
2. To capture cities or take cities as gift.
3. To receive cities as the contribution.
4. To win 100k.
5. To win domination.

It seems to me, that it was possible to change these rules as follows:

1. To admit temporary building of the cities necessary for army formation, only on current turn (only conguest and domination victory condition).
2. To admit temporary capture of cities only on current turn (like it would not influence deterioration of reputation).
3. To admit reception of cities as contribution only on current turn ( except domination and 100k).
4. To admit capture of cities. Growth of a population of such cities is not permitted. You may build only culture improvements in this cities (only domination and 100k).

Introduction of the given changes, in my opinion, will raise flexibility of strategy of game in OCC GOTM.


Certainly I do not know much and I do not understand many aspects of game. May be exist rules of game in ÎÑÑ for GOTM ?

OCC has self imposed rules. The most important is not to have more than one city. Most of the time this means, never to have more than one city. Still you can play by the rule of not having more than one city of the end of any turn throughout the game. This would allow you to build an army and maybe wonders like Battlefield Medicine and Wall Street.

I would say that those cities would need to be captured or received from the AI and not built by you. That way I’m sure that anyone would consider such a game as OCC.

Using other self-imposed rules as you suggest would make the game challenging for you and a nice experience I am convinced but I would not call that an OCC.

As far as I know there are no given rules for a game to be labeled OCC within the GOTM event.

I'm new to GOTM, so i thought it would be polite to read this FAQ-thread before asking my questions. So i did. But it is 21 pages, and took me quite some time, so i would suggest that either a new FAQ-tread was started, with only questions and no discussions, greetings etc, or that this stuff was deleted from this thread. I dont mean to offend anyone, just trying to make it a bit easier for the next newcomer.

And here are my questions:
I have played civ quite a lot from the very first game, and on these forums i've noted that people play rather different than i usually do, so i was wondering; Is it common knowledge that the following strategies are the best (i've only played GOTM25, so some of this may only apply to this game, if so, please let me know):
-Researching only at the slowest rate, and instead getting techs by other means (i usually rely heavily on my own research)
-Spending income on luxury to keep your people happy instead of using entertainers and building happiness-imrovements (i have always done the latter)
-Frist building a strong military, then building infrastructure when suitable (again, i usually do it the other way around)
-Trying to capture the wonders u want, instead of building them yourself (well, in gotm25 it was impossible to finish any wonders before the comp. until late in the game anyway, but i usually try to build a few myself)
-Bying workers instead of building them.
-Only having one "settler-factory" producing most of your settlers. (i use to let every new-built city produce one, two or three settlers)
-And finally; do u usually bye luxuries from the other civs? I was forced to fork out 100 gpt for one luxury at one point, but i really like to keep my people happy. :)

I know this could have been posted on the gereral discussion, but most of this didnt occur to me before playing gotm, so i thought maybe u guys have your own way of doing things.

Salte: Welcome to GOTM! :)
These were all lessons I have learned gradually after playing several GOTMs, but most of the ones you have mentioned are also based on difficulty level.

Generally, at Monarch and below, it is entirely feasible to conduct your own research, and also to build a few key wonders. However at Emporer, and especially Diety, the AI cost advantages are such that it is actually cheaper to buy techs, and almost impossible to hand-build wonders, unless you have a leader or strong pre-build. These factors also influence the military-first strategy, since if you are not going to research initially, why build libraries, etc. Also, early conquest can lead to solutions to the first two problems (capturing wonders, and getting techs for peace).

The settler factory is valid at any level, but dependent upon starting location. If there are enough food bonuses and shields around, it is worthwhile, even if it means a delay in the first settler, the increased rate of production will pay off by the 2nd or 3rd settler. However, it doesn't always pay off, and SirPleb posted an excellent discussion of it Here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1352557#post1352557)

This was another lesson I had to learn the hard way, but now that I think about it, is probably related to the first two points. If you are planning on your capital being your wonder builder, or research center, you want to build the population up. But if you know that you are relying on the AI for tech and wonders, then it makes sense your capital will be free to crank out settlers, if set up correctly. So I guess they tie together even better than I realized.

My playing style was originally very similar to yours, from the sound of it, but learning the lessons from the great players here has been a tremendous improvement for me. Also, even at the higher levels, there will come a point in the game, somewhere between late middle ages or early industrial usually, when you will switch over to infrastructure and your own research, usually when you have two productive core areas established, and then you can slingshot your way past the AI's and on to victory! :goodjob: So keep an open mind, learn from some of the pros in the discussions, and watch how many more options you will have at your disposal!

I am curious if the GOTM will be played on C3C.

Thanks,
CivGeneral

CivGeneral,

At this point, GOTM will not incorporate Conquests at least through January. For details, see this Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1331968#post1331968). With the major changes to game dynamics (Scientific leaders, moved exploration/map trading) not to mention the major bugs (corruption, GPT deals), it is not very comparable at this point to Civ3 or PTW.

Thanks for the response. I am thinking about returning back into the GOTM :).

I have another question, This one is regarding the QSC. Are the timelines for the QSC required or optional? I have heard that there is an easy way via a program to create a timeline. If there is a program, would someone post a link. Thanks :).

Originally posted by CivGeneral
I have another question, This one is regarding the QSC. Are the timelines for the QSC required or optional? I have heard that there is an easy way via a program to create a timeline. If there is a program, would someone post a link. Thanks :).
The timeline is currently required. Part of the reasoning given for making them required was that Spiderzord was working on a logging program that would make this easier (if not fully automated). He has been quite busy though, see <here> (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1289589#post1289589).

I opened up the new Asian melee last night and played about 3 turns and gave up because I don't know what to do with the chests. I try to "activate" and it does nothing. I have a feeling they could really help. I looked through the FAQ and saw nothing.

They are units that are designed to be disbanded for 10 shields - a handy early production bonus. Put them in your city, and hit "D" for disband. :)

You can use them for limited scouting, but they have no defence, so are prone to being attacked by barbarians.

Now on with game. My spaceship awaits.

Can someone tell me why I can not download the set up files for GOTM 21 thru 26? I can download the set up file for GOTM 17 thru 20. I just put PTW on my new computer and now I can't get it set up to play GOTM 26 because I need set up files from past games.
Thanks.

You need to install add-on graphics packs to play these other games. If you go to the gotm.civfanatics.net website, and go to announcement page for each of the games, there are links to download files.

To play the Play The World version, you need to download and install the following:

GOTM 21 full pack for PTW (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm21_ptw_full_setup.exe)
GOTM 24 add-on pack for PTW (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm24_PTW_add_on_setup.exe)
GOTM 25 add-on pack for PTW (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm25_PTW_add_on_setup.exe)

Make certain that you install these files to the directory with your civilization3.exe file in it. Even though you are playing in Play The World, you must install to the Civ3 install directroy, or it won't work.

The read-me for each of these files contains a link to the saved game file. :)

When I click on those links I get a window that says"Getting file information". After about 30 seconds I get another window that says "Internet Explorer was not able to open this web site".

When I go to GOTM 17 thru 20 I am able to download the set up files without a problem. Why are the GOTM games after #20 different?

Thanks for your help.

I suspect the key difference is that the later ones are complete installers that download as .exe files. The earlier ones were .zip files containing the raw mod files. I guess your Internet Exploder is stupid enough to fail to download the .exe file. Try right clicking the link and selecting Download to Disk in the resulting menu - I'm guessing the menu wording here, as I have absolutely no problem with these files. But then, I use a Mac ;)

IE does a much less intuitive "Save target As" ;)

But try doing what Alan suggests. I have checked the link, and they are ok. :)

I downloaded both GOTM 26 and 27, however, upon opening them I get this error message. I have the most recent version of Civ3, and am downloading the correct file. Any ideas?

It is because you haven't installed the other game packs. See this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73908). :)

Sorry, I don't want to be a pest, however, I am still encountering one problem. I Installed GOTM Packs 21-25, and GOTM 26 works perfectly. However, on attempting to load 27, I get a similar error, except this one pertains to : Art/Units/Junk/Junk.INI Sorry in advance if I've missed something simple yet again, but any help would be appreciated. I am positive I installed each of the game packs.

The Junk was included in the GOTM24 add-on pack. I'm surprised that GOTM26 ran without it. Check if the \Junk\ folder exists in your civ3's \Art\units\ folder. The default location is, I believe, \Program files\Firaxis Interactive\Civilization III\Art\units\. If "Junk" isn't there then you have possibly installed at least one of the add-on packs in the wrong location. You should also have folders with names like "Ashiguru Footman", "Bushi" and "Cannon Kublai" in the same location.

Originally posted by AlanH
...
The default location is, I believe, \Program files\Firaxis Interactive\Civilization III\Art\units\.
...
For me it's C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Art\units\
I'm not sure if the Infogrames bit is a European thing though.

Apologies, Dianthus is quite right, I was typing from memory as I don't have a PeeCee version installed here. Hence my "I believe ...". Close, but no cigar, eh? :blush:

Ah, I had downloaded the wrong version of Gotm 24... so many different files, a bit confusing =) Thanks for the help.

Hi,
Still trying to figure out how GOTM site works,

Are the Timelines of old GOTM winners published anywhere?
Or do we just have to go through the Spoiler threads and hope they posted something of interest.

They should make very interesting reading. And probably provide the best learning opportunities.

The timelines, up to 1000 BC, of old GOTM games up to game 20, are published on the GOTM website here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/

In case it has gone unnoticed, I have posted a two part listing (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1590156#post1590156) of links for the last twelve games of the month. They cover download links for the mods and start files for all the classes and software versions, links to the game intros and instruction pages, and links to the discussion and spoiler threads.

Let me know if you need any thing else.

Originally posted by AlanH
In case it has gone unnoticed, I have posted a two part listing (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1590156#post1590156) of links for the last twelve games of the month. They cover download links for the mods and start files for all the classes and software versions, links to the game intros and instruction pages, and links to the discussion and spoiler threads.

I had missed that. Perhaps you might want to put a link on the GOTM website. It is especially valuable for all of the links to the threads dealing with each game.

Originally posted by zagnut


I had missed that. Perhaps you might want to put a link on the GOTM website. It is especially valuable for all of the links to the threads dealing with each game.
My cunning plan is to get the links right in the posts, and then add them to the games database so that the game pages will contain the thread links.

I have PTW 1.27f( the last uptade from www.civ3.com) and I have seen the post which say's about patch 1.14.
What kind of a patch should I have for PTW if I want to play on GOTM?

You need to have at least 1.14f. We have players with 1.14f, 1.12f and 1.27f, so your current patch is fine. :thumbsup:

Welcome to the GOTM sardkar,

The latest version for ptw is 1.27f.

Don't worry about the 1.14 as it is an earlier patch.

Also, ainwood meant to say 1.21f, not 1.12f

Hi, its been over a year since I've played this game. I'm just wondering for what reason does GOTM not use the latest civ3 expansion? I bought it, and tried some scenarios but decided to play vanilla Civ3 for the GOTM (Didn't want to override the files in PTW which I'm using for other games).

Firstly, PTW supports scenarios better than Civ3, so you wouldn't be overwriting files by playing the GOTM under PTW.

Secondly, conquests isn't (yet) being supported for three (main) reasons: 1.) Conquest still hasn't been patched to the final version. There are some significant changes being made to the game rules, and different people playing with different patches. This isn't a killer reason for not supporting conquests under the GOTM, but its still a significant reason!
2.) Conquests has such different rules to PTW and Civ3 that its not really practical to compare them side-by-side as we do with PTW v Civ3. Therefore, we would need to run it as a separate competition.
3.) Whilst we may do this in the future, we need to tidy-up the processes that we use for the current GOTMs: the results processing, QSC, Hall Of Fame and adapting our various utilities to support conquests. We will get there, but how we will support conquests and when we will support it will probably not be clear for six weeks or so.

THX GUYS

I have many time reloaded my save game because always want to win in a battle. Is it legal ?

Originally posted by sardukar
I have many time reloaded my save game because always want to win in a battle. Is it legal ?
No sardukar, you're not allowed to submit a game in which you have re-loaded. See :
From the Your 1st visit to the land of GOTM (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/gen/1st_visit.shtml) link on the main gotm site

You may not reload the game from a previous save file or an autosave file to replay and change any events that occur in the game. Reloading gives you an artificial knowledge of future events and might allow you to manipulate the outcomes of some random events, but these behaviors will often leave a distinctive signature on your game that can be detected by further review of your submitted save game files

It's really bad :(. I did'nt know. Hope the team of civfanatics will be not so strict to me.

From my hazy memory, you are allowed a certain number of reloads, kept secret by the GOTM staff.

So, unless you HAVE to (crashed game or similar unfixable catastrophe) DO NOT RELOAD!

Hi all. Hopefully will be playing the next GOTM... It's been a while!

Sardukar: it is certainly *not* true that you are allowed a number of reloads to alter a previous result. Reloading is allowed however after misclicks or system crashes and of course to eat and sleep once in a while. Just play the next game without unnecessary reloading and you'll be fine. As a bonus you'll find you get better at planning ahead in your game. :)

Just a quick question. I'm new to the forums here, but been playing since CivI. I am currently using C3C v1.22 that was just released. I'd like to participate in the GOTM modules but am unsure how to access my plain-vanilla version of PTW that C3C was installed on top of. Is it still just sitting in a PTW directory? Or is there some special way to startup to acces my old PTW so I can play the GOTM? Would appreciate any help.

Okay, found the PTW icon in an old direction, v1.27f I believe, so that should be fine. But I got an error loading the GOTM 30 Spain module. I seem to get these errors quite frequently when trying to play scenarios I download. This one was "missing entry in text\PediaIcon.txt Animname_prto_pictish_warrior" then it exits the game. It's very frustrating, as there are some good scenarios out there I'd like to play. Any clue how to fix these types of errors?

To play any of the Game Of The Month games, you need to install some extra units / graphics packs.

If you look in the reference thread (stickied below), you will see links to the graphics packs. You need the following ones:
GOTM 21 Full Install Pack for PTW
GOTM 22 Add-On Install Pack for PTW
GOTM 23 Add-On Install Pack for PTW
GOTM 24 Add-On Install Pack for PTW
GOTM 25 Add-On Install Pack for PTW


The critical thing is to tell the unstaller to install these packs to your Civ3 directory, NOT your Play-the-world one.:)

Thanks, Ainwood. I'll give that a try and see how it works :)

Okay, I got the GOTM add on packs installed fine for 21,22,23,24. When I try to install 25 it tells me some files are missing at the end of the install, they look mostly like .arg and .wav files for mounted warrior. When I ignored them and tried to start GOTM 30 I still got the error that the files were missing for the Pictish Warrior. Any idea what I'm doing wrong here?

If you get the message that the Pictish Warrior can't be found, this indicates that the files have been installed to the wrong directory. Re-install, and make sure it is to the Civ3 directory (NOT the Civ3PTW one). That should fix the problems. :)

The gotm25 add-on installer tries to copy some sound files from the places where it expects to find them in your standard installation so that the new units can use them. Your installer has failed to find them, so you must be pointing it at the wrong directory on your hard drive.

The lack of a Pictish Warrior seems to be a common complaint around these parts. Again, it means that the add-on packs - in this case the gotm21 add-on - are not installed in the right place.

I discovered the problem. The addon packs were installing to an older version of Civ3Gold that I had on my C drive, not the current installation of PTW I have on my E drive. I reinstalled the gotm packs to the correct Civ3 directory, on the correct drive, and it worked fine. Thanks for all the help guys :)

First time playing GOTM here (before i played in the tournament then layed dormant until now). I installed the patch for GOTM21-25,28 everything works fine. But one thing bothers me I can't seem to trade maps in GOTM 30. I have writing and map making but there are no options to trade maps in diplomacy. Is this a new change? or is there something wrong with the civ 3 files?

The tech required to trade maps was changed to get a C3C-like feeling. You can see more details on the game announcement pages.

Yes - to trade contact, you need printing press; to trade maps you need navigation. :)

When will conquests be added to GOTM options?

Originally posted by Birdjaguar
When will conquests be added to GOTM options?

"Eventually" :mischief:

Something wrong with my resources. When I play a normal game or GOTM19 the resources are screwed up. Wine is salpetre and fish looks like coastal rocks etc.. In GOTM30 it looks alright. I'm guessing it has something to do with resource.pcx and resources.pcx? But I have no idea how to fix it(don't have the original anymore).

You should look inside your Civilization 3 folder under /art/ressource_storage there should be some folders that contain the different ressource icons. In your case you just have to copy the ressource.pcx and ressource_shadows.pcx from the subdirectory /gotm21_before into the /art folder.

--
grs

uhhh... so who are the scientific civs in gotm30? the civpedia is kind of fragged... thanks!

Well, its a bit of a spoiler to tell you the specific civs, however I can tell you that the traits have not been changed compared to the normal game.

If you are wondering about the PTW-equivalent civs in the Civ version, then you can find details about those civs here (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/cia/index.shtml). :)

whoops- guess i should have posted this in the spoiler II thread... i heard a rumor (false, i see) that one of the civs was scientific when itd PTW counterpart was not, thus the question- thanks ainwood!

I've tried searching for this on my own, but since it's a map question and the search engine refuses to search for any 3-lettered words I'm kinda stumped. ;)

Anyways, when the first spoiler appears you usually have to have a full map of your starting continent to read or post there. How is that handled now that map trading is deferred until the end of the Middle Ages? Does a map of the coastline qualify?

Well, the spoiler rules for this game haven't been published yet, so why not wait and see?

Heh, fair enough. :)

Originally posted by AlanH
Well, the spoiler rules for this game haven't been published yet, so why not wait and see?
The 1st spoiler is out now, and I still don't know the answer to Stone Wolf's question! AlanH/ainwood, would you care to enlighten us?

(please... just remembered my manners at the last minute there :mischief: )

Dunno :hmm:. I've pointed out the question to Ainwood and suggested that the criterion could be amended to "visibility of the entire coastline of the starting continent", but I actually had no problem illuminating all of the starting continent before the Middle Ages began, so I'm not sure it's a major problem in this game.

This would be very basic questions (sorry about it), I'm trying to play my first GOTM :D. The GOTM main page said GOTM31 was the latest. I followed the link on the left side, and it came up with GOTM31 page. On that page, I went to 1st-visit page, and I read all the clues. However, I didnt find any installation for PC (if any), I found Mac Installation on Gotm31 page. the question are:
1. Do I need to do any installation? Note : I have CivIII 1.29f, PTW 1.27f, and C3C 1.0 (which I dont like it).
EDIT : I got the answer for question (2)

Originally posted by binyo66
This would be very basic questions (sorry about it), I'm trying to play my first GOTM :D. The GOTM main page said GOTM31 was the latest. I followed the link on the left side, and it came up with GOTM31 page. On that page, I went to 1st-visit page, and I read all the clues. However, I didnt find any installation for PC (if any), I found Mac Installation on Gotm31 page. the question are:
1. Do I need to do any installation? Note : I have CivIII 1.29f, PTW 1.27f, and C3C 1.0 (which I dont like it).
EDIT : I got the answer for question (2)
Welcome to GOTM :wavey: The GOTM 31 page states:

If you have not previously recently played and completed a GOTM game, then download the "Gotm21 Total Install" first and then add the Add-On packs for Gotm22, Gotm23, Gotm24 and then add on the Gotm25 game pack that matches your software. You can download the Game Packs from the game pages in the menu at the left hand side of this page. Please pay close attention to matching the game pack versions to the software version that you are playing as this will eliminate 95% of all the errors that have been observed in the past games.If you want to avoid opening all the game pages separately then there is a list of links to the add-on packs and much more in the GOTM Reference Thread in this forum.

thx u

Originally posted by AlanH
Welcome to GOTM :wavey: The GOTM 31 page states:

If you want to avoid opening all the game pages separately then there is a list of links to the add-on packs and much more in the GOTM Reference Thread in this forum.

First, thanks to you and Ainwood for all of your hard work on GOTM, and for helping me get setup for GOTM30.

I know you guys are probably sick to death of people nagging you about this, but you're also probably annoyed by frequent posts by new GOTMers asking the same question: "how do I start playing GOTM?" or "I keep getting a message about pictish warriors and the game quits when I try to load GOTM". I myself had to do some sleuthing :scan: to discover what you guys always post in your replies to these questions. Just a friendly suggestion: on the GOTM home page, put a link for "new GOTM players" with a) instructions and b) links to the 5 relevant modpacks. I know the current setup is 90% of the way there, and perhaps 95% of new GOTM players quickly figure out what they need to do based on that, but I'm sure the added effort would be greatly appreciated by the slower among us, myself included. :jump:

Originally posted by Lord Jimbob
Just a friendly suggestion: on the GOTM home page, put a link for "new GOTM players" with a) instructions and b) links to the 5 relevant modpacks.

I agree we could provide something between the two extremes: "go find them among these five game pages"; and "here's a compact and cryptic reference list with no instructions".

One of the problems is that, really, we need people to be able to find their way around all of the information about the mods, not just how to install them. The game pages do also provide information about the new units, and sometimes about the tribes, which is not avaiable anywhere else. You may argue that this should be on line in the civilopedia, and you'd be correct. But right now it isn't, and getting new players to look at the game pages may help to fill that gap.

Also you've fallen into the classic bear trap around here. It isn't just the five modpack links that you used. It's 10 when you include both Windows versions, plus another three if you include the Mac OS X files (plus even more if we tried to support older MacOS versions). All this makes the proposed page potentially more confusing, and means it needs some careful thought and design.

Then there's the whole question of whether future games will continue to use these mods anyway ... :hmm:

I have installed gotm21_v129_full_setup.exe and play GOTM31 (my first gotm)
Questions :
3. Can I go to GOTM 31 spoil thread by now?

Hello. I've moved this post into the second spoiler thread
It contains details of the civs you met in the game. As you are researching a modern tech you are allowed to visit both of the currrent spoiler threads. Please read the first post in each spoiler thread as it contains details of what stage you must reach in the game before you read the thread.

dunno if this has already been asked, sorry, but cant be reading through 11 pages just to find it.

is there any likely hood of gotm becoming conquests any time soon? as i only have conquests (i borrowed a friends vanilla civ) and so cannot play gotm at all until it is... unless im being stupid.

If you have a legal copy of Conquests, you can play right now. Your copy of Conquests contains a directory for the PTW expansion pack. PTW is supported in the current GOTM.

If you don't have a legal copy of Vanilla Civ, it's quite cheap to get (under $10) at most electronic shops and on-line.

Now I have replayed the QSC 31 about 10 times with different goals in mind and trying to master one goal (great map btw, thanks!), and in my tests I have reloaded plenty because I tend to forget happiness sometimes or my workers move to the wrong square etc. Is it acceptable to reload in these situations in future QSC if I do not get knowledge of map or trade etc at that turn? It's so annoying when I have a bigger plan and I forget the little micromanagement so the towns go in disorder or I lose out on food.

If you have a legal copy of Conquests, you can play right now. Your copy of Conquests contains a directory for the PTW expansion pack. PTW is supported in the current GOTM. so are gotm's played on ptw? in that case i should be able to play.

If you don't have a legal copy of Vanilla Civ, it's quite cheap to get (under $10) at most electronic shops and on-line.
i can get hold of a copy of vanilla and so patch my game etc.


so over all, ill probs be a gotm regular pretty soon, or i might wait till after my gcse's

Now I have replayed the QSC 31 about 10 times with different goals in mind and trying to master one goal (great map btw, thanks!), and in my tests I have reloaded plenty because I tend to forget happiness sometimes or my workers move to the wrong square etc. Is it acceptable to reload in these situations in future QSC if I do not get knowledge of map or trade etc at that turn? It's so annoying when I have a bigger plan and I forget the little micromanagement so the towns go in disorder or I lose out on food.


Your not meant to reload at all.
If you read the GOTM spoilers you can see some of horrendous mistakes made by many of the less skilled players (me included).

Sometimes Iam tempted to reload when pressing the wrong key. But I dont use auto_save. Disable it and it'll help you be a more attentive player.

Now I have replayed the QSC 31 about 10 times with different goals in mind and trying to master one goal (great map btw, thanks!), and in my tests I have reloaded plenty because I tend to forget happiness sometimes or my workers move to the wrong square etc. Is it acceptable to reload in these situations in future QSC if I do not get knowledge of map or trade etc at that turn? It's so annoying when I have a bigger plan and I forget the little micromanagement so the towns go in disorder or I lose out on food.

No.

This is a competition between people, not you against the computer. If you reload or replay you are giving yourself an unfair advantage over the other players. It is cheating and will not be tolerated. Your fellow players will only respect you and your results if you have played to the same rules as them.

You are NEVER permitted to reload to change an outcome of an action you took. If you have let your cities go into disorder, or sent a stack of cavalry to their death against a stack of mobile infantry, then tough! Swallow it and move on.

You must NEVER restart and replay the game for submission. This is the most extreme reloading crime.

The only times reloading is permitted are:

- When you have to shut down Civ3 (why! :p ) then you'll have to save the game position nad reload it later to continue.

- If your computer or the game crashes. The you can reload the last autosave, and you should try to ensure that you replay the turn exactly the same way. If your software is crashing frequently then you should not submit a gotm until you have resolved the problem. Staff here may be able to help.

- If you genuinely mis-moused and put a critical unit or stack in a place you never intended or accidentally ended the turn. We are not running a manual dexterity competition, so you are permitted to reload on the rare occasion that might happen.

If and when you get to Spoiler 2 for gotm31 look out for the "blunder of the month" posts. Several players have posted horror stories, which we accepted and moved on. Humans learn fastest from remembered pain :D

No.

Never reload unless 1, 2, 3...


Ok I see.

Then I have a question. See in Civilization 2, you could see if a town would go into civil disorder instantly (town turned red on F1 screen) and I could fix that. Now in civ3 I have to look carefully at the population faces and count them which is just time consuming. Any advice on what I could do to speed things up?

Two things that can help:
1) Use a gfx mod for the population that shows colour coded happy/content/sad faces on the citizens.
2) On the F1 screen sort by population. Generally it's the highest population cities that are more likely to go into disorder, so look there first.

Two things that can help:
1) Use a gfx mod for the population that shows colour coded happy/content/sad faces on the citizens.
2) On the F1 screen sort by population. Generally it's the highest population cities that are more likely to go into disorder, so look there first.
If you sort by population then I *think* it sorts on happiness. Click the happy faces icon at the top of that column twice, and the unhappiest cities seem to come to the top of the list.

I can't believe I have never tried to click those buttons on the F1 screen! Thanks, this should make things somewhat easier.

I am sure this problem has come up before, but I did not want to scroll through 24 pages of prior posts. I recently finished GOTM31 (civIII, 1.29). This was my first GOTM, and I quite enjoyed it :goodjob:. Trouble is, the resources now display incorrectly (fish look like coal?). Could someone please advise how I go about fixing this?

Many thanks.

I assume you are playing Civ3 1.29? If not then you *shouldn't* be getting this problem.

There are two files: resources.pcx and resourceshadows.pcx in your \Art folder. There should also be a folder called 'Before GOTM xx' that contains the versions of these two files that were replaced. Swap these files back and your random games should play nice again. You will need to swap them back again if you want to play another gotm.

There ought to be a Readme somewhere in your installation covering this subject, but I don't know whether this is (still) the case .. I don't do Windows installers.

To avoid all this I keep two separate copies of the complete Civ3 folder on my hard drive, one modded and one unmodded, with separate shortcuts to the two .exe's so that I can launch either (or both).

Is it considered a spoiler to post your Jason score?
I've left it out for now just in case... not that I'm proud of it or anything... I'm thinking an award must be mine for slowest/lowest scoring spaceship vistory!

Is it considered a spoiler to post your Jason score?
I've left it out for now just in case... not that I'm proud of it or anything... I'm thinking an award must be mine for slowest/lowest scoring spaceship vistory!
And if it is, are we allowed to post our "spoiler" Jason score in the Spoiler threads?

Sorry, Jason scores are now considered spoilers.

You might be in the running for an award at this stage, but I couldn't possibly comment. Also, it's only just past half way through the month, and the fat lady hasn't even started warming up her vocal chords yet :p

And if it is, are we allowed to post our "spoiler" Jason score in the Spoiler threads?Why would you want to?

Why would you want to?
You're right! A while back it was nice to be able to compare our Jason scores in the Spoilers while waiting for the results to come out, but now that our friendly GOTM staff have sped the process up so much it's probably maybe not really all that necessaryish (unless you're really really impatient, like me ;)).

Ah well! Patience is a virtue, and has its own reward. If we can develop a new virtue in Dianthus then our living has not been in vain :p

Question:
I just submitted my first gotm31. I submitted one turn before my victory. After uploaded I realized the screen said conquest lost. I think I chosed the wrong answer on upload form. Do I need to resubmitted again? (ref# 3974)

Binyo66:
Yes, you need to re-submit but not the save from a turn before your victory.

As is stated in the instructions you need to play your game to victory, choose the "lemme play a couple more turns" option and save the game at that point. This is the save after the victory, this is that save that you need to upload.

Thx. I will play and resubmit.

I'm sure that this has been asked before. why can't one single download be make that will cover you up to the most current gtom? Every time I try to download all 5 or six of them and try installing it I get an error (I believe with gtom 24 and 25) saying it is missing files. I have a cable modem so download size is not a problem I would like to compete in the June edition but I do not have the patience or computer know-how to sift my way through the errors.

BTW I have gold edition PTW if that makes a difference

I'm sure that this has been asked before. why can't one single download be make that will cover you up to the most current gtom? Yes it has. I answered it just today >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1864243&postcount=10), and last week as well.

Every time I try to download all 5 or six of them and try installing it I get an error (I believe with gtom 24 and 25) saying it is missing files. I have a cable modem so download size is not a problem I would like to compete in the June edition but I do not have the patience or computer know-how to sift my way through the errors.

BTW I have gold edition PTW if that makes a difference
When does the error occur? During installation? Or when you start playing. My guess is when you try to play, in which case you are probably pointing the installer at the wrong folder. As I don't have PtW I can't tell you where you have to tell it to install, but I'm sure it's in the instructions.

If we do produce a new consolidated installer then I shall work very hard to ensure that it is designed to check that you have chosen a reasonable place, with the right local folders and files. Just like the Mac ones do :mischief:

When does the error occur? During installation? Or when you start playing. My guess is when you try to play, in which case you are probably pointing the installer at the wrong folder. As I don't have PtW I can't tell you where you have to tell it to install, but I'm sure it's in the instructions.

If we do produce a new consolidated installer then I shall work very hard to ensure that it is designed to check that you have chosen a reasonable place, with the right local folders and files. Just like the Mac ones do :mischief:

Yes, it is during the installation. I will fiddle with it tonight and write down the error I get. If you could help me through it I'd really appreciate it. It looks like great fun.

**sorry for the repete post as my wife can attest to I have never been known as a patient person ~ so I did not read through the whole thread 1st. My bad ** :(

O.K. I tried again last night to install the full line of GotM's
I'm trying to install this on my PTW (CivIII Gold) Which is automatically updated to 1.27
I downloaded all of the PTW (I checked twice to be sure I grabbed the correct ones).
GotM21 - Installed in C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\CivilizationIII - No Problems
GotM22 - Same As Above
GotM23 - Nothing to install for PTW if I'm reading the instructions correctly - just a read-me file
GotM24 - Same as 21 and 22
GotM25 - Install goes well up to Approx 75-80% and THEN:
The Source file C:\Program Files\infogrames\CivilizationIII\Art\Units\Warrior Attack.amb does not exist
If at this piont I hit ignore it brings up the next one:
The Source file C:\Program Files\infogrames\CivilizationIII\Art\Units\Warrior AttackAFoot.wav does not exist
and this goes on and on and on

What the heck am I doing wrong...I know it's my fault and I prolly just being thick headed :crazyeye: but I'd surely appreciate any help you could give my

GTOM21 - Installed in C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\CivilizationIII - No Problems
GTOM22 - Same As Above
GTOM23 - Nothing to install for PTW if I'm reading the instructions correctly - just a read-me file
GTOM24 - Same as 21 and 22
GTOM25 - Install goes well up to Approx 75-80% and THEN:

Ah, there's your problem. This is GOTM, GTOM (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~gtusa/gtom.htm) is something completely different :mischief:.

No that's not the problem - My typing is the problem. Pls see Edited post

Sorry Mistfit, I was causing mischief (hence the :mischief: ). I'm bored at work, and somehow found a page about Ghost Town Of the Month. Not very helpful, but amusing (IMHO).

It's hard to read peoples intent on the posts. My 1st inclination was to call you a Smart A** but then I thought ' you never know she may actually think that was what I was looking for'
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/dianthus.jpg

Diathus is a guy not a gal, and doesn't/isn't moderate :mischief:

the error you are seeing is happening when the installer tries to copy some sound files from standard units into the new unit folders it has created for the whizzy Mongol UUs in GOTM 25. I assume the spaces in those error messages are actually where the error message has been abbreviated and a bit has been left out, as the full file locations should be:

C:\Program Files\infogrames\CivilizationIII\Art\Units\Warrior \WarriorAttack.amb

etc.

So the question is, does a file fitting the above description exist? The installer doesn't think so, so my guess is you've told it to install into the wrong place and it can't find the files it needs in that directory.

I assume the spaces in those error messages are actually where the error message has been abbreviated and a bit has been left out, as the full file locations should be:

C:\Program Files\infogrames\CivilizationIII\Art\Units\Warrior \WarriorAttack.amb

etc.

So the question is, does a file fitting the above description exist? The installer doesn't think so, so my guess is you've told it to install into the wrong place and it can't find the files it needs in that directory.

The error message was hand written and then transfered by my less than adept typing hand so any errors in spacing is a typo on my part and not part of my problem.
Below is a direct quote from the Game of the month Web page off of GotM 21 full install instructions:
We are attempting a bit of an experiment this month in an attempt to be more user friendly. The game-packs for Gotm21 are self-extracting, self-installing setup programs that all you should need to is download and then click and point to your "Civilization III" folder. Be extra carful to make sure that you point to the "Civilization III" folder and NOT THE "CIV3PTW" folder or the files will not install properly.

I installed 21,22,24 in the same location with no problems. It is just with 25 that I get this message.

I have obviously put it in the CivilizationIII folder not the CIV3PTW. There are only really two folders to choose from to place this stuff. I don't unserstand where else I could have gone wrong? I fully own up to being "kinda slow" sometimes but I don't believe I am a complete and utter idiot(no matter what AlanH thinks).

Does any one else (someone that actualy owns and plays GTOM's on a PC) have any constructive suggestions to help me out?