Ladies & Gentlemen, I invite you to partake in a game designed to sate even the most bloodthirsty of appetites. Forget mortal kombat, banish thoughts of blood sports (and lay down those rare steaks) - this is where the blood is at. :D

This game will be always war, but it will have a few variants. Firstly, all the civs will be militaristic. Yes, I thought you'd like that. Secondly, land will be at a premium: standard map, 20% land. Tensions and border disputes will occur in BC times. Thirdly, we will not trade at all. Period. No trades, of any sort when you meet a civ or thereafter. Upon meeting a civ, war shall be declared IMMEDIATELY. After that, we may NEVER contact the civ, for any reason; all envoys must be refused, we may never drop in for a friendly chat to see what they would offer for peace (as if), what techs they have, how many cities they have, if they have access to a strategic resource, whatever. The only espionage capability will be after building the intelligent agency and planting spies. We rely solely on our own initiative, and whether we live or die, it is us against the world.

The world setting will be designed to be harsh; this has not been finalized but I'm thinking 20% continents, cold, normal rainfall, 3 billion years. Barbarians raging. I think Pangaea would be too brutal and I would like this game to emphasize all areas of combat, so naval and aerial engagements will be important late in the game. Archipelago may lead to a total lack of early fighting, which is a crucial aspect of this game. Continents strikes the best balance.

Difficulty will be regent. There have been plenty of excellent high level always war games (Sirian's infantry, LKendter's Mongols, to name but a couple), but I am a relative newcomer to always war (though I've been practising plenty lately) and I want to encourage people who have not considered always war or who are looking for a challenge without being overwhelmed by the difficulty of high level games to apply. In any case, given the settings and the nature of the game, the difficulty will feel like emperor (which is approximately my skill level). So please do not hesitate to apply if you are a regent or better player. I promise this will be fun!

The civ's will be Zulu, Mongols, Vikings, Germans, Chinese, Celts, Aztecs and Romans. Japan is the only militaristic civ left out (because Japan starts with the wheel, all the others have warrior code, so this is partly a balance issue). We will choose who to select and the remainder will be our foes. The idea in choosing tight land and militaristic civs is to encourage war, not just us vs the AI, but also intrafighting amongst our opponents. As I say, I have decided to let go of my builder insanity and release all in a bloodbath!

I will post greater details later including my own experiences of always war and possible strategies. At the moment, however, I would like to gauge interest and comments, including ideas of adjusting the settings and what civ to choose. I look forward to hearing your views

EDIT: also victory conditions. I'm not entirely sure if the AI is programmed to recognize what victory conditions are open, and if anyone knows anything about this, then I would appreciate the input. If it is, then I think leaving conquest as the only condition might be within the spirit of this game, to encourage even more fighting. Perhaps with a PTW twist, such as regicide for greater risk (again, open to comment)

i like this thing, i'll play if you let me

I'm a always war newcomer as well. My level is monarch (with my eyes closed...), but moving up to emperor level.

So if you let me, I'm interested...

About regicide: the AI doesn't know how to handle this. The king unit can be used for other purposes that the AI doesn't 'know' about (scouting, pilaging) and the unit recides in the capital: very easy target. Mass regicide also isn't that great: even more scout/pilaging units for the human player...

i like the mongols, especially if we're choosing a 3 billion earth if not Celts or Romans are my choises.

I agree with Aggie, besides regicide ain't as much bloodbath as conquest or domination :cool:

Finally, some interest!! Glad to have you on board!

I'll post greater details tonight (UK time)

Ok, thanks for the input. One thing I've noticed about regicide is the AI will build loads of units to defend its capital (and king). As for the human advantage in pillaging/scouting with the king - this is always war with raging barbs!! If we did play regicide and used the as an exploration/pillaging unit, it could be a very short game!

Anyway, I'm quite happy with conquest as the only victory condition - it will be do or die.

We'll take a vote on the civ between the 3 of us, so we can get started. The game will still be open, however, so if others wish to join they can jump in (5 or so is probably ideal for this sort of game). I propose the standard 24 hour "got it" and then a further 48 hours to play, with plenty of flexibility and choice in case anyone has a difficult or busy period.

Before we decide the civ, I thought I'd do a brief run-down of the pro's and con's of the civs available.

China - probably the strongest choice. Industrious is always useful, irrespective of game type, and moreover, remains useful for the entire game. Hooking up resources quickly could play a vital role in the early game. The rider is an awesome UU and would give us a big Middle-Age advantage if we chose China. The Golden Age would also be well-timed. With Masonry as our second starting tech, we could build walls early and have a great shot at the Pyramids if we got an early leader or an exceptionally strong start position.

Germany - the value of scientific would perhaps be magnified given the game conditions. With no trading whatsoever, we're going to have to research (or find from goody huts) every tech, so the free techs and the cheap research buildings would come in very handy. Germany is also the civ in the best position for early war, with the ability to build archers and spears from the start, and 1 tech away from swords. The Panzer is a very good UU but comes, perhaps, a little late to play a game-defining role, though it would be handy to mop up civs with Blitzkrieg if the game lasts that far. Another strong choice

Rome - the power of commercial increases as the game advances. If we chose Rome, we would probably struggle a little more earlier as we would lack the early advantages that expansionist, religious or industrious civs get. On the other hand, the extra gold would be very handy later in the game to aid upgrades and cash-rushing or research. Legionaries are excellent all-round units and would provide a GA we could use to build an unstoppable force of ancient units. Alphabet is the most expensive 1st rank tech to research, so this too would be an advantage, and a step closer to the valuable Great Library.

Celts- militaristic and religious has always been one of my favourite combinations. Build a temple and barracks in every city, for a combined cost of just 50 shields, and then produce all the units you want. The Celts (and Aztecs) would give us a big early advantage, but with only 1 government change in prospect (to Monarchy), once we're past the early Middle Ages the value of religious would be virtually zero. Ceremonial burial is a cheap 1st tier tech. As for the Gallic Swordsman - well, I think everybody appreciates their power but the cost could be prohibitive in an always war situation - 50 shields is pretty extortionate and we would be relying on good cities only to be able to produce them. (Personally I would always take the 30 shield attack 4 immortals over the 50 shield 2-move Gallic Swordsmen as the rulers of the ancient age).

Aztecs - as per the Celts but I think the Jaguar warrior is far better suited to always war than the Gallic sword. True, an Aztec Golden Age would be almost entirley wasted (as I doubt we'd have more than 2 cities) but the power of the Jag rush is phenomenal.

Zulu - not sure of the value of expansionist in this scenario. An early advantage provided by free techs or free settlers would be considerable in the circumstances, but I doubt we'd have the opportunity to pop many huts, given we have to declare war on neighbours as soon as we meet them, there is only 20% land and the barbs are raging - scouts could be killed rather quickly. On the other hand, we would have the opportunity to use scouts as nuisance units, as cheap pillagers and harrassers. Starting with Pottery is also a minimal advantage given its cheapness to research. The Zulu Impi is almost the perfect unit for always war - a mobile defensive unit, ideal for pillaging, capturing workers, defending resources, and providing quick reinforcements where needed. A good choice for this scenario, and a nightmare as an opponent.

Mongols - as per the Zulu; the only difference is the UU. Keshiks could potentially play a big role in their ability to traverse mountains as grassland given the 3 billion year age of the world, and also don't require iron which could save our backside if we discover we don't have this crucial resource. The Golden Age would also be well-timed, but essentially, they are inferior knights, and if the circumstances don't fit, they will provide a negligible advanatage at a crucial point of the game.

Vikings - as per the Zulu except for the UU. The Berserker is great. Attack 6 when the standard defence is 3. Amphibious attack. Wow. Cost would be less of a factor at that stage of the game as it is for the Celts and gallic swords. Will also stand out in the 80% water situation. Strong choice, would be even stronger choice if we were playing archipelago.

There we go, if anyone has anything to add, please do so, otherwise we need to vote on what civ to choose. Once that is done, we can have a discussion on strategy if needs be and then start the game

I go for Rome, China or the Mongols (mongols are because i always liked them, especially in Age of Empires :p)

All civs are fine with me. With the exception of the Romans: play them right now in the GOTM.

China may indeed be too powerful and the vikings have an awesome berserk. They are quite popular in SG's right now... Maybe time for something else?

Mongols is fine with me if you want it. The expansionist trait may be waisted in Nad's scenario, which makes to game even more difficult...

Celts no good the Gallic are too expensive and the reatreating ability is wasted with the Impi's, Germany the UU comes way too late, besides i don't think it will survive a third attack and the scientific trait don't work with this kind of game.

I like China, the riders with a extra move in that time and such small scenario could be deadly, industrious rocks in all kinds of game.

The Mongols, i like the UU it costs 10 shields less and moves like a grassland on mountains, good in 3 billion, traits suck in this kind of game, but a challenge is always good

Sounds like a toss-up between China and the Mongols...so...

*tosses a coin*
* heads = China, tails = Mongols*

*tails*

Mongols it is. I will start the game and post later today

First of all, a quick recap on the variant rules - no diplomacy or trading at all. War must be declared immediately upon meeting another civ and at no point may we ever talk to that civ for any reason. If other civs sell our contact, we must declare war as soon as we are aware that we know another civ. All militaristic, conquest only, the game begins.

Start http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightStart.jpg

Turn 1, 4000 BC - a nice start, coastal, fish and 2 spices, forests on grasslands and mountains. Near the equatorial region of the map. Also a goody hut within the capital radius.

I block ceremonial burial so we don't pop that from the hut, and found. It works - we get bronze working.

Karakorum starts a scout, worker moves to mine the only bonus grassland visible. 100% research on ceremonial burial, the cheapest available tech

turns 2 to 5 - uneventful, scout exploring

IT - scout complete, barracks ordered

6 and 7 - nada

Turn 8, 3650 BC - worker completes mine, starts road

Turn 9, 3600 BC - we spot a dark blue border to the south. Germany?

Turn 10, 3550 BC - nada

IT - borders expand

Turn 11, 3500 BC - worker completes road, moves to spices square to clear forest and then hook up the lux

Turn 12, 3450 BC - worker begins to clear forest; more spices sighted in the jungle near Germany (?), and a couple of fresh water lakes. The combination of mountains and jungle which is the only area we can expand to is not so pleasant now but will be very powerful later in the game.

IT - rax complete, start spear

Turn 13, 3400 BC - zilch

IT - Burial researched, start the Wheel

Turn 14, 3350 BC - as our scout ended the last turn next to blue borders, we can now make contact. It is Germany and we declare war immediately. This is gonna be very early war and I will try to use our two scouts for nuisance value until we can build up some military.

Berlin is on the coast, has 2 lakes within its borders, and ivory. It is defended by a regular warrior

IT - Spear appears at the top of Berlin, so they now have a spare warrior they can threaten our scouts with.

Turn 15, 3300 BC - one of our scouts runs through German borders. The other I will use for recon.

IT - the German warrior moves towards our scout in German borders.

Turn 16, 3250 BC - the 2-move of our scout allows it to escape the German warrior. There is desert to the south of Germany.

Turns 17 & 18 - nada

IT - our recon scout watches the German warrior begin to head north

Turn 19 - the continents tretches round Germany to the south, with plenty of ivory, deserts and mountains. A useful choke is spotted for later in the game

IT - spear complete, start Archer

Turn 20, 3050 BC - spear fortifies and scouts move.

Roster:

Aggie ..... UP
Manya.....ON DECK
Slots are still open

For this first round, play as many turns as you want to get a feel for the game, whether that be 10, 15 or more. After the first round we will play 10 turns each. 24 hours for a got it, a further 48 to play. Save games in the format "WDelight - 0000AD.sav" please.

Notes for next player - forest chop is due in 2.
Let's try to build a settler before taking the war to the Germans. We can then set one city for expansion and the other for military. Karakorum is a superb city for micromanagement, so use it well.

There is only one way we can expand - south, and there is some jungle/desert there but not many bonus resources. The sea will be an important resource in this game, so try to build cities coastal if possible.

The early part of the game is going to be expansion and military based. The great library is a big wonder in always war so at some stage, we need to think of a strategy to grab it. Take the war to the Germans - the sooner they are out of the way, the easier our expansion, and, as I say, there is a very handy choke to the south of Germany which we can use as a defensive point while we settle our territory (our southern scout is standing right by it in the screenie below).

Good luck and enjoy!

Save http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight3050BC.sav

Got it! These Germans settled on a nasty place. They have to be eliminated. Hopefully we get horses soon..

Aggie, wait!

That save I just posted doesn't work properly, I'm still fixing it and will post once its fixed

EDIT: the save is now fixed

Screenie

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightGermany.jpg


Note the tightness of land and the scarcity of bonus resources. The scout in th esouth is standing on a choke point that we can use after disposing of the nasty Gerrmans

Nad, thanks for warning me. Playing now...

Pre-turn. Nothing to chance. The scout at the choke can continue scouting. The one to the north has a problem: how to pass German territory?

Turn 1 - 3000BC: scouts move.

IT: forest chopped.

Turn 2- 2950BC: Start road to spices.

Turn 3 - 2900BC: Some scouting. Land to the west of the choke isn't very intersting..

IT: German warrior keeps moving north.

Turn 4 - 2850 BC: Archer built. Start settler. Treasury is low (-1 gpt and treasury = 9). I correct it. Archer goes south. Settler completes in 5 turns.

IT: Road to spices built. We happy!!! :cool:

Turn 5 - 2800BC: scout discovers Mysticism. Worker goes one tile south.

Turn 6 - 2750BC: start another forest chop.

Turn 7 - 2710BC: We are on a small island, with the Germans as our only neighbours. Our scouts are finished with the exploring...

Turn 8 - 2670BC: Our archer kills the German warrior. First battle won!! :shotgun:

Turn 9 - 2630BC: Settler built. Start spearman. Settler goes southwest with spearman. Avoiding Germans AND jungle for the moment.

Turn 10 - 2590BC: nothing much happened...

Turn 11 - 2550BC: Zzzzzz

Turn 12 - 2510BC: Ta-Tu built soutwest of Kakakorum. Tight build pattern. Growth will be very slow, but shield aren't bad... Start barracks.

Turn 13 - 2470BC: Zzzzzzz

Turn 14 - 2430BC: The Wheel discovered. Next tech will be Iron Working. Horses south of Ta-Tu, between the two lakes! Guess where our next city will be...

Turn 15 - 2390BC: Zzzzzz

IT: Forest chopped. The shield are just enough to finish our spearman in Karakorum.

Turn 16 - 2350BC: Settler started in Karakorum. Archer watches on a mountain for trouble from coming Germany. The horses must be secured!!

Turn 17 - 2310BC: Zzzzzzz

Turn 18 - 2270BC: Zzzzzzz

Turn 19 - 2230BC: Zzzzzzz

Turn 20 - 2190BC: Zzzzzzz

Considering the place were Germany started, I decided it was best to go for a tight build. And our Palace should move from Karakorum at some point. A lot of benefit of the palace wil be wasted (in the sea) if we don't. I made one little mistake already. I noticed too late that Ta-Tu's laborer decided to work on the de-forested spice terrain at 2390BC. Corrected it though...

Pointer for the next player: obviously the spot 3 tiles south of Ta-Tu should be our next city. We get horses there and on top of that fish, a fresh lake and shielded grassland. I would accompany the settler with a spearman.
Futhermore the archer was placed on a mountain near the German border to spy on developments. And to avoid settlers coming north...

2190BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight2190BC.SAV)

Here's our empire... Next place to settle: 1 tile north of the horses...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Wdelight2190BC1.JPG

good stuff, Manya is up. We might want to pillage the German horse tile...

Afetr the third city we should definitely go on the offensive, kill the Germans and then have a peaceful phase to cover the entire island before all the other civs find us

Originally posted by Nad
After the third city we should definitely go on the offensive, kill the Germans and then have a peaceful phase to cover the entire island before all the other civs find us

I agree!

Good idea about pilaging the horses improvent! Why didn't I think of that? :(

got it, playing

the .sav ain't working

Originally posted by Manya
the .sav ain't working

:blush: Corrected it.... You can try it again!

sorry but i'll have to drop out, my PTW doesn't work with downloaded .sav, i dunno why i tried with other games but it gives the same thing, sorry.

If there is something you have to do and i didn't notice tell me ok

Manya, sorry to hear that... You were correct about my first version. I also couldn't load. But the new file works in my game.

Did you instal patch 1.14? If not, that might explain your problems. Would be a shame if you couldn't play...

Hey i am very interested. I am not a expert player but i do love to kill! One problem. I got 56k so fi the fiel gets above 350kb it needs to be zipped to be UNDER a meg. It can never go above a meg. IF it does i have to drop.

@ Manya: do you have version 1.14. If not, download it and play. Otherwise it's a pity if you have to drop out.

@Widdowmaker: what is your skill level/ experience of always war? If you think you can handle a game that will feel like monarch/emperor, then welcome aboard! Don't worry about the saves. Even late game saves rarely go above 500 or so k.

Well. I only played cheiftan so far but how hard coudl it be? just keep the populus happy and keep 2-3 defenders in each city. The rest get to go kill. And i havent done a always war yet but in my game i am continualy killing everything.

:o

Monarch/Emperor is quite a bit harder than chieftain. Trust me...

Nad, what now? I like to continue, though it would be nice to have a few other players around...

Hmm. Well it may be harder but i liek chalange. And i think it may be worht a shot. "Longshots are jsut that. long. But sometiems it pays off in the end." It may be worht my whiel and yours to give me a chance. Up to you. If i aint good enough you coudl drop me.

Good luck on this one guys. Regent AW is tough when you try it first, but it is winnable if you have experience and don't rush decisions. While I have AW regent wins I'm afraid I can't join as I'm already commited in the communism game and have just started adjusting to life on Emperor level after getting tired at monarch. I simply doesn't wish to overcommit. I will be following this one though and offering occasional advice and comments if you want it :)

@Harleqin: thanks for the support, by all means offer comments and advice, input is always good.

Widdowmaker; if you feel up for it, then I'm happy to have you. You're up now, so download the save and play. Please post a got it within 24 hours if you do wish to play, and then you have another 48 hours to play

Room for any more?

I would dearly like to join this one...

Not much experiance on AW, but just been getting my teeth into a LOT more warmongery ;)

Melifluous.

PS. I am a Emperor player (I think) on normal PTW (I have 1.14 too.)

Originally posted by Melifluous
Room for any more?

I would dearly like to join this one...

Not much experiance on AW, but just been getting my teeth into a LOT more warmongery ;)

The 'Zany' Zerkers? That was a great game to follow, although it took very long :D

Melifluos, welcome! :)

Nad....played
Aggie...played
Widdowmaker....Up Now (depending on whether he wants to take part)
Melifluos....On Deck

Cool and thanks for the welcome...

BTW if people have difficulty spelling my name :p please just call me Meli

MelifluoUs

Originally posted by Melifluous
Cool and thanks for the welcome...

BTW if people have difficulty spelling my name :p please just call me Meli

MelifluoUs

:o Whoops:D

@Meli: Thanks for joining us :goodjob:

@Nad: Do you have a SG policy, like a 24 h for 'got it' and 48 h to play? I would like to get this game going again...

@ Aggie; yes, I've asked for the standard 24/48. I'm not sure if widdowmaker is going to join us, he seemed unsure. If he does not post a got it by 18.00 GMT today we can skip him, and MelifluoUs will be up

Hey Ned thanks!

I will play this if Windowmaker doesnt turn up!
You, me and Angie should kick total a$$

:p :p :p

Melodramatic

Originally posted by Melifluous
Hey Ned thanks!

I will play this if Windowmaker doesnt turn up!
You, me and Angie should kick total a$$

:p :p :p

Melodramatic

LOL!!!:D :D :D

Hey, Melissa, I look forward to your turns!

Well maybe you should look at this reply in another SG thread by widdowmaker...

Another SG thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45239&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=3)

Seems he doesn't think he was welcome in here :(

So should I go ahead and take the game now?

Superfluous

Meli, go for it.

Yay!

So can I just clarify a rule...
As soon as I meet a civ I MUST declare war?

Or can I just not talk to them and only declare war on them if they declare war on me?

Whatever, if I see someone, I will declare war straight away, sounds more in keeping with the game.

Melifluous

Meli, this is always war, so you must declare war immediately and never make peace. In standard always war you can trade with a civ on the turn you meet them but only for lump sum items, eg tech trade, and you can also later contact civs to find out how many cities they have, whcih techs they have etc. All this is out of bounds in this game. Declare war immediately when you meet a civ, don't try to see what they have available for trade. Never acknowledge an envoy and never contact a civ after war has been declared. Quite simply, we are out to exterminate.

OK, got the save, here we go!

Turn 1 (2150BC) - Move scout southeast one square onto the next mountain and uncover a barb camp on the east coast! Archer moves to the mountain southwest. Hmm might lure them south to the germans to pillage their improvements if I can... Oh and if the scout in the west was running away from barbs, then someone coulda told me :(

Turn 2 (2110BC) - Ta-Tu completes barracks and starts Spear. Scout in the west killed by barbs. Camp in the east spawns a warrior who moves west towards my scout. Spear/Settler combo comes outta Berlin heading northwest. I move scout NW to maybe use the barb to discourage the settlers advance. Archer Fortifies on Mountain.

Turn 3 (2070BC) - G. Settler moves NW, so does my archer. Scout moves West as barb comes over the mountains.

Turn 4 (2030BC) - Barb moves away from scout so my scout moves west to block northern passage of settler/spear. Spear/sett go nw as does my archer.

Turn 5 (1990BC) - Realise that a scout cant block a spear :P and that my archer wont stop the settler getting our horses, so I gamble and attack. I love the RNG sometimes, what odds on beating a spear with an archer in the jungle? I dont lose a single hp and we now have an elite archer and 2 slaves :D Move slaves north and scout back onto the mountain range. Worker completes mine at Karakorum and moves south to the jungle to connect Ta-Tu to the capital.

Turn 6 (1950BC) - Barb appears next to scout on the mountain and Karakorum completes settler which heads for just west of the lake. Scout moves out east to try and lure the barb away from our new slaves. Archer goes east.

Turn 7 (1910BC) - Scout goes south stopping next to the barb camp. Risky but I want those barbs going south not north. Archer moves east onto Mountains Nothing more from Berlin thank goodness.

Turn 8 (1870BC) - Scout moves back to the mountains, two slaves move to horse, archer moves into German territory with a view to pillaging horse. Research reduced to 80%, Iron Working in 12 Turns.

Turn 9 (1830BC) - Ta-Tu builds spearman, starts another. Settler waits for spearman. Archer to horse.

Turn 10 (1790BC) - Archer pillages irrigated horse, slaves start road on horse.

Turn 11 (1750BC) - Damn barb goes west near my slaves. Slaves, spear and settler meet at the site of our new city next turn.

Turn 12 (1725BC) - Barb attacks our veteran spear on hills and is defeated with our spear on 2 hp! Kazan founded. Elite archer kills regular archer from Berlin with the loss of 4 hp! Damn these rolls are rigged man. Our worker starts road from Ta-Tu to Kazan. Slaves start road to horses.

Turn 13 (1700BC) - Karakorum builds archer heads south to take out barbs from the barb camp. Might leave the barb camp itself, good upgrading there.

Turn 14 (1675BC) - All is quiet.

Turn 15 (1650BC) - Ta-Tu builds spear, starts archer. Spear goes south to Kazan.

Turn 16 (1625BC) - We have the horse connected to Kazan. Switch spear to barracks. Iron Working next turn, drop research to 30%.

Turn 17 (1600BC) - We get iron working... OMG who made the map. Germans have iron JUST outside their influence. Second archer attacks barb and win with 1 hp loss. Ah no panic it turns out we have iron UNDERNEATH Ta-tu!!! Both archers at Ta-tu and Karakorum switched to swords.

Turn 18 (1575BC) - OK, reviewed that, changed swords back to building archers. Elite archer now back up to full strength, will hang around outside Berlin trying to get a Leader :p. Move spearman down towards Berlin.

Turn 19 (1550BC) - Run scout towards Berlin and back again. All I can see is that there is a spearman in Berlin :p

Turn 20 (1525BC) - Karakorum builds archer, starts settler. Ta-Tu builds archer, starts settler. These are place makers and obviously can be changed as needed. Road connecting Kazan completes in 2 turns. Kazan 12 turns away from building barracks. Archers move south.



And that was that... Bloody lucky to beat that spearman with an archer but now we have two slaves and this may turn the tide of the war against Germany. They lose a settler and a spearman and we gain two slaves, nice.

My thoughts on the future.

The German War.
I think with a stack of 4 archers and a spearman we can take Berlin. Maybe the two new archers could wander past the barb camp and try and get themselves promoted on any free barbs, but I thought we could leave the camp there for just that purpose. Try and keep a unit on the mountains at all times to observe any barb activity. I'm not sure if we need any more cities at the moment and maybe both cities building settlers would be better off making something else, maybe chariots, as we get Horseback Riding in 9 turns. However one more city on the square to the east of the lake would be ok, this would mean one square overlap with Kazan but would bring the wheat in play...

Beyond Germany...
Looking east of the barb camp shows a tantalising glimpse of more land accessible by galley, maybe we could expand...

The Map as I leave...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Wdelight1525BC.jpg

Oh and the game save

WDelight 1525BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight1525BC.SAV)

Nad ..... Up Now
Aggie ..... On Deck
Melifluous ..... Played

The puny Germans don't appear to be a threat. Great work meli :)

EDIT: Why shouldn't we just continue expanding on OUR island after Germany is eliminated? And prepare for a more difficult war after that...

good stuff Meli, I look forward to my turns tonight

Thanks Guys...

Originally posted by Aggie
EDIT: Why shouldn't we just continue expanding on OUR island after Germany is eliminated? And prepare for a more difficult war after that...

Because Aggie, we are ALWAYS at war...
If you wanna fight from ships for the rest of the game fine, but if we want to have enough cities overseas to make a decent stand to begin with, then I suggest we get off this island as soon as possible.

Just my thoughts

Melifluous

An overseas foothold is always good, but if you want it as a production base then you will need to get your FP up in the region. By colonizing your own island you would have a strong core and be able to launch massive invasions. It is all down to what you want and your playstyle.
I'd say you have two choices once the Germans are gone. A FP in the south region for a strong homeland OR colonies with the FP and then moving your palace south to maximise its effects.
Just my two cents :)

An overseas foothold is good but our base for a large part of the game is our home continent. I know the continent doesn't look very pleasant, but this is a 3 billion year old cold world. From the minimap you can see that we are near the equatorial region, so it is likely that other continents will have worse terrain, eg lots of tundra. What I propose we should do is build our FP in the center of our home continent (Berlin would be good) and then move our palace to another continent (most likely with a leader) once we have a strong base at home. This way we can get plenty of use from our original land and build a strong core, and then have another strong core on another continent once we are in a position to take the fight overseas

BTW, I intend to take out the Germans in my turn if possible, preferably with swords (casualties would be lower than if we went with archers; with so much jungle around, the advantage of horses is diminished)

First of all, I played 15 turns this round instead of 10, partly because I got caught up in the game, and partly because with only 3 of us so far signed up, we can have another round of 15-20 before we cut down to 10 later, so play as many as you see fit this rotation.

Inherited turn, 1525 BC - we will shortly have 4 archers and a spear with which to attack Berlin, which is what Melifluous recommended. However, I'm going to play conservatively this early in the game and wait til we have a sword or two before attacking Berlin. Ta-tu is deficient in food so that is switched to a sword, Karakorum is fine to build a settler. (BTW, Aggie, when you inherited the game from me last time, how come you only mined 1 of the 2 spices square? We could be getting 1 extra shield per turn in our cap if you'd mined the other spice square as well).

IT - the borders of both Karakorum and Berlin expand

Turn 1, 1500BC - I intend to use the spear and scout to do some more pillaging of German terrain. Our worker is going to begin clearing jungle so we can route some irrigation up to Karakorum and Ta-Tu, the two slaves will build a road to the front line.

IT - the Germans request an audience :rolleyes:
A German reg archer appears out of Berlin and onto a mountain tile

Turn 2, 1475BC - the pillage plan is changed, I'm going to use our military to block the German archer off

IT - the German archer moves onto a plains tile. Sucker!!!

Turn 3, 1450BC - our elite archer attacks the German archer in a leader potshot and ... wins with 1 damage but no leader. Our spear covers the archer, and our scout joins the mini-stack.
I'm going to use our other archers to surround the barb camp in the hope of promotions, as Meli suggested.

IT - another German archer charges out of Berlin and attacks our spear - we win, losing 2HP, and our spear is now also elite. The barb camp spawns a warrior, who heads north.

Turn 4, 1425BC - archer tracks the barb warrior. Our scout pillages the tile north of Berlin so that road is destroyed,, our wounded spear covers the scout

IT - barb warrior attacks our archer, we win losing 2HP, no promotion.

Turn 5, 1400BC - spear and scout head away from Berlin to heal.

Turns 6 and 7 - nothing of interest

IT - HBR complete, set to Masonry
Ta-Tu Sword -------> Sword

Turn 8, 1325 BC - Sword heads south. I'm fed up with the barb camp and I need the military to attack Berlin; I certainly don't intend to leave the camp unobserved, so I attack with an archer, win w/o scratch and promote to elite; we gain 25g.

Turn 9, 1300BC - advancing on Berlin

IT - Karakorum settler --------> spear

Turn 10, 1275BC - KK settler and spear move, troops fortify outside Berlin awaiting the sword and final archer to arrive

Turn 11, 1250BC - nada

IT - Another foolish German archer ventures out of Berlin, into our nicely prepared trap.

Kazan barracks --------> worker

Turn 12, 1225BC - this time I attack with a veteran archer as I want the elites at full health for the attack on Berlin; as it happens, our vet kills the German archer w/o a scratch and is himself ordained into the ranks of the elites!

IT - Ta-Tu sword --------> horse

Turn 13, 1200BC - troop positions are finalized for an assault next turn

Turn 14, 1175 BC - Almarikh founded across the lake from Kazan, the wheat means high food, set to worker.

The attack on Berlin:
vet sword (attack 3) vs reg spear fortified on plains (defence 2.7) - we win, losing only 1HP.
time to use our elite archers - first one vs another reg spear - wins losing 3HP...and that's it! Berlin and 1 slave are ours. After all that build-up, the assault was a piece of cake. Berlin set to temple (can be vetoed by next player).

The Germans are history, time for some expansion

Screenie: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightByeByeOtto.jpg

IT - palace acquires a lawn

Turn 15, 1150 BC - Ta-Tu changed to temple as we could do with some culture and border expansions. The next player can veto but I would recommend NOT building workers and settlers from Ta-Tu - it's very low food but high shields, and should build improvements or military.

I use our military units to span and watch for barbs - the last thing we want is to lose workers or settlers to barb camps that spring up (remember, the barbs are raging).

Masonry is due in 2, +3gpt (we can't get it in 1, even at max science)

With that, I leave the empire in the capable hands of Aggie. It's expansion time, and should prove a nice lull - enjoy it, because most of this game promises to be hectic! The save game is below, along with a couple of screenies - pay heed to the military advisor's warning!

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight1150BC.sav

Empire: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight1150BCEmpire.jpg

Military: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight1150BCMilitary.jpg

So Aggie takes over in a peaceful era! And that in a 'always war'...

Tomorrow may be difficult. But will surely play Friday!

Ok guys, the files have now all uploaded succesfully

as we've got a little time before Aggie plays, I thought I'd throw out a few thoughts.

1) Berlin. What do you guys think of this as the FP site? It's probably the most central of cities on our home island. If so, we need to get it built up so it can self-build the FP; temple and courthouse are paramount, and we should avoid builing workers or settlers there.

2) Great Library - massive in always war as it lets you concentrate on infra and military for 3/4 of an age. Also, if we find we are isolated from the rest of the world, w/o trade it would probably be the only way of catching up in tech if we have an extended period of isolation. We need to think of a prebuild ASAP, as it doesn't look as though we'll be getting any leaders for a while. Perhaps Ta-Tu? We also need to beeline for literature, then mapmaking, and then monarchy

I completely agree on both issues. I'm a TGL fan myself. Although I'm not too concerned about the tech race on regent.

No rest for the weary, Aggie. You're up in CG5 as well! :thumbsup:

BTW, are you in Amsterdam?

hey sorry. I thought i was rejected by you guys and did nto get a chance ot check my messages! Sorry. If able i would liek to participate if it is not TOO late into the game. MY bad.

Originally posted by Aggie
I completely agree on both issues. I'm a TGL fan myself. Although I'm not too concerned about the tech race on regent.

Aggie, if this were a normal game on regent i too would not be concerned about tech race, but remember we have to research every tech as there is no trading at all. Just try to add up all the techs we have to research :eek: add to that that we're gonna be in monarchy for almost the entire game (so no republic/democracy commerce bonus), there will be little time for lulls to build banks/universities in, and that we'll likely have a huge military expenditure, and suddenly the tech race takes on a new perspective. Our enemies have no such restrictions on trade. Fighting muskets with horsemen and rifles with knights, in a game we aim to have loss ratios of (probably) 4:1, is not an exciting prospect. I've done a number of test runs and I have found that even with space race switched off, the tech problem can be quite large, so I would suggest that we consider the tech race as one of our biggest challenges

If this is an always war game, then you really want the TGL. It will be the chance to build up a large block of cash. Early in the game you really will be hurting for cashflow due to unit costs. Having money around to upgrade spearman --> pikeman for horses --> knights, or even warrior --> sword (built in some no iron cities) is HUGE!

Having done several AW games, I put TGL very high on the list.

Nad, you're right about doing all the research ourselves. And of course LKendter is correct: we can use that money.

Yeah same as Nad I was initially not too worried about tech,

Its only regent yeah?

But maybe I should reconsider...

No trading EVER and always fighting :eek:

TGL a must surely...

Melifluous

So? I am trying a warldo game as we speak (the last one i did i forgot to change the settings to warlod) I am ottomans and am in hgue archpalgeio. I dotn knwo if it is HARD or if i have a HORIBLE START LOCATION! No river. No resource. No way off an isald big enough to hold 3 sities MAX and half og it is tundra. But in my "Never give up" motto i am stil playing it (it is real had cuase fo horrible start location.

Am i in? I mean id leik to TRY and if i suck too bad tell em and i iwll be happy to resign and leave the tough ones ot the good players.

sorry widdowmaker, my reply would be the same as Cgannon's in CG5

Just what i thought. Worth a shot though.

Originally posted by cromagnon
BTW, are you in Amsterdam?

How did you guess ;)

PS I was up in K8 as well...

Switched Kazan to settler. I like to expand. Didn't touch the rest...

Turn 1 - 1125BC

Turn 2 - 1100BC Masonry discovered, research Alphabet (in 8). Kara finshed spear, starts settler.

Turn 3 - 1075BC Zzzzzzz

Turn 4 - 1050BC Zzzzzzz

Turn 5 - 1025BC Zzzzzzzz

IT: The Vikings build the Oracle

Turn 6 - 1000BC Zzzzzzzz

Our verteran swordsman gets promoted after aatch by barb horseman

Turn 7 - 975BC Zzzzzzzzz

Turn 8 - 950BC Ta-tu builds temple and starts granary. It doesn't look like the city we need for TGL though (no growth)

Turn 9 - 925 BC Almarirk finshed worker and starts temple.

Turn 10 - 900BC We know about the Alphabet now. Next is writing ( in 16...)

IT: after a new barb attack, a veretan archer gets promoted. Rome builds the Colossus.

Turn 11 - 875BC Zzzzzzz

IT: jungle cleared near Ta-tu. The city grows again.

Turn 12 - 850BC Kara builds settler, start granary. 25 gold from a barb camp.

Turn 13 - 825BC Zzzzzzzzz

Turn 14 - 800BC Zzzzzzzz

Turn 15 - 775BC Kazan finishes settler. Starts another.

Turn 16 - 750BC Tabriz founded south of Kazan. Starts worker.

Turn 17 - 730BC Zzzzzzzz

Turn 18 - 710BC Zzzzzzzz

Turn 19 - 690BC Ulaanbaatar founded. Starts warrior.

IT: We lose an elite archer to a barbarian horseman!

Turn 20 - 670BC We take revenge with a swordsman.

Uneventful, indeed!

Writing in 4. Next tech should be literature. Ta-tu OR Karakorum could switch to a pre-build for TGL. I think it will take quite a while before we leave the island. First we have to get Map Maping (after Literature!!)

670 BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight-670BC.SAV)

Yay!

Back to me again...
I'm still grumpy that we cant get map making and expand off the island quick... But I was out-voted 2 to 1 and I will soon get over it...

I wanna kill stuff and this building stuff is gonna give me a headache :p

Melifluous

Got it...
:goodjob: Aggie, boring job well done ;)

Aggie?

Not a valid save game apparently....
Could you repost?
or mail it to me at stevebroad2002@hotmail.com

Melifluous

@ Melifluous: by all means expand off the island quick, I just thought that having a secure homeland was a greater priority! There is no doubt at all that we want tp get off this rock, the only question is before or after the homeland is secured? I think after, but feel free to act as you wish in your turns as long as you are prepared to explain and defend the moves :p

Meli,

I corrected it, I think. If it still doesn't work, I E-mail you and Nad.

And by all means get of the island if you want! It's your call. I was only giving my opinion.... It's only that I really think TGL is great to have.

Aggie?

Link still not a valid game file :(

Melifluous

:confused: I just sent you a save file and will try to get a decent version in this thread...

EDIT: I tried to get a correct save-file in my post, but it didn't work. Nad, do you want a save mailed to you. you could PM me...

OK, got it now...

Turn 1 (650BC) - Ta-Tu completes granary, starts pyramids... You want TGL you is gonna get it. Writing in 3 turns
Turn 2 (630BC) - Almarikh changed from temple to settler.
Turn 3 (610BC) - Science Rate dropped to 40% writing next turn.
Turn 4 (590BC) - Get writing, Science Rate raised to 80% literature in 16 turns. Berlin changed from temple to settler. Swordsman kills barb.
Turn 5 (570BC) - Archer takes out barb camp. We have more money. Up the science rate!
Turn 6 (550BC) - Tabriz builds worker, starts another. Spear moves from Kazan to Ta-Tu, MP duty. Entertainer employed at Almarikh until the road links up the luxuries.
Turn 7 (530BC) - Snoozin...
Turn 8 (510BC) - Berlin builds settler, heads south towards the ivory. Ulaanbaatar builds warrior, switched to barracks.
Turn 9 (490BC) - Eek just noticed a red border accross the ocean. Rome, dont ya just love Legionaries?
Turn 10 (470BC) - Snoozin
Turn 11 (450BC) - Hmm just seen my first barb horseman in the distance...
Turn 12 (430BC) - Karakorum completes Granary, now building horseman. Swordsman kills barb horseman.
Turn 13 (410BC) - Another barb camp dispersed, hmm these things really are helping the research. Literature in 4 turns.
Turn 14 (390BC) - Zzzzzz
Turn 15 (370BC) - Roman galley off the coast of Ulaanbataar. Not sure on the protocol here as they haven't tried to talk to us yet, so I right click on the galley and declare war. Hovd built near the ivory down south.
IT - Aztecs complete pyramids, vikings complete the Hanging Gardens!
Turn 16 (350BC) - Tabriz completes next worker, starts barracks. Literature next turn.
Turn 17 (330BC) - Ta-Tu switches from Pyramids to Great Library as literature has just completed. That was close! Romans land a spearman and settler southeast of Berlin. Elite archer goes south to erm 'investigate' ;)
IT - Romans complete the great lighthouse. They found Hispalis on OUR island!
Turn 18 (310BC) - Elite archer attacks spearman and wins easily destroying Hispalis.
Turn 19 (290BC) - Almarikh completes barracks starts horseman.
IT - Celts complete the Great Library :(
Turn 20 (270BC) - Ta-Tu switches to Library. Karakorum completes horseman and starts another.

And that was that... How far behind in tech are we? Not funny...

Nad you're up...

270BC - Beaten to the GL :( (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight270BC.SAV)

:( Are we sure this is REGENT? Hanging Gardens and TGLalready built? Meli, how many shields did we lose in Ta-tu?

Jeez, that is bad news. Tech situation could be bad. And we're fighting legions now!:eek: :eek:

Tuesday might be more likely for me to play...will do my best

@ Melifluous:

"Roman galley off the coast of Ulaanbataar. Not sure on the protocol here as they haven't tried to talk to us yet, so I right click on the galley and declare war. "

:goodjob: That's exactly the spirit of this game, if it moves, attack it.

"Berlin changed from temple to settler."

Was this the best option? If we intend Berlin to self-build the FP we needed to build it up to maximize the shields. Other cities can build settlers, we don't want Berlin to do this.

@ the future.

The tech situation has increased the difficulty level of this game a notch or two. Not a lot we could do about the Pyramids cascade, that was just bad luck. So what do we do?

Plan A: capture TGL. F7 will tell us which Celt city built it. We research the rest of the ancient tech tree (except Republic), we then research feudalism, monotheism and chivalry (in that order) and we take the fight overseas. Use a Keshik-inspired GA to capture the Celt city and have the tech situation sorted. For this to work we have to pray that the Celts are close to us and we can get there with galleys...

Plan B: we do it the hard way. Research all we can (which will be cheaper as we won't be researching at 1st), build up slowly, fight defensively and advance as much as we can. We can always research the bottom branch of the middle-age tech tree and avoid education. We can always capture TGL late in the game which will bring us up-to-date. Combat could be difficult, however, as we might be fighting superior units, but hey, that's life.

We do have a few things going for us; there are no more scientific civs left in the game (we got rid of the only one), tech pace will be slow as there is only 20% land (hence fewer cities and fewer beakers) and once we have declared on everybody, they will spend a lot of time building units and move towrads monarchy rather than republic/democracy.

EDIT: also conquest is the only condition enabled so we don't have to worry about a ship launch or the UN

Anyhow, we asked for a challenge and a challenge we got!

I think we have to go for plan B first (research the war-techs) since we do not know were the Celts are...... When we know, we can always switch to plan A. Go for it Nad!

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight70BC.sav)

Things could have worked out better...

Inherited turn: science increased to 70%, map-making in 12, -1gpt

Karakorum changed to spear, Berlin to temple, Almarikh to settler and micromanaged to get an extra shield; and Hovd to barracks (this turned out to be a huge mistake, but read on, dear friends...)

IT: a Roman galley approaces our shores, and I will follow it.

Ta-Tu library--------> spear

Turn 1, 250BC - troops move to anticipate Roman landings

IT: Roman galley still sailing

Turn 2, 230BC - science down to 60% to break even. Troops still moving

IT: The Roman galley in the north continues to sail. Another Roman galley appears out of the fog to drop a settler and WARRIOR pair right next to our elite archer at former Hispalis :D :mwaha: :rolleyes:

Turn 3, 210BC - add 2 more slaves to our collection
Our elite sword in the south clears a barb camp netting 25g

IT: Ta-Tu spear--------> sword
Ulanbataar barracks---------> spear

Turn 4, 190 BC - nothing to note

IT: forest chop complete outside Ta-Tu, more Roman galleys approach.
Karakorum spear-------->settler

Turn 5, 170BC - I resolve to get a spear defender in all cities and begin troop shuffle

IT: galleys still moving

Turn 6, 150BC - more barbs spotted in the south-west, troops continue to anticipate Roman landings

IT: I am a FOOL :mad: :( :o :eek: :eek:

The Romans land 2 warriors next to Hovd. Big deal, you say? Hovd is completely undefended. I can't believe I overlooked that, and I understand now why Meli was building a warrior there without even a barracks. In my defence the galley appeared out of the fog, but it's still inexcusable, I should have anticipated this (especially as I generally pride myself on my military strategy in Civ). There is absolutely no way we can defend Hovd, so I will abandon it rather than let the Romans raze it and steal our gold. Very sorry, chaps.

Turn 7, 130BC - Hovd is abandoned. Shuffle troops as best I can.

IT: another Roman warrior lands, but we should be able to cope.
Ta-Tu sword ---------> horse

Turn 8, 110 BC - elite archer vs Roman warrior - we win losing just 1HP.
2nd elite archer vs Roman warrior - same result as above
horseman vs warrior - we win w/o damage and our horse is now elite.

IT: a larger Roman landing, this time 2 warriors and an archer next to Ulanbataar - it sure sucks not to be able to take the fight to the Romans
Kazan temple --------> granary

Turn 9, 90BC - elite horse attacks Roman vet archer - we win, losing 1HP
sword vs warrior - we win, w/o a scratch - just 1 Roman warrior left from that landing

Whip the temple in Berlin, for 2 citizens - I know I advocated building Berlin up, but at size 4 with 1 shield, we need to get its infra built up, in anticipation of the FP being built there - besides, with 2 lux hooked up, we can absorb the unhappiness.

Hire a taxman in Almarikh to prevent disorder at size 6 - lux taxes would cost too much and would bring extra happiness where it's not needed

IT: the remaining Roman warrior attacks Ulanbataar but our elite horse there succesfully fights him off.
Karakorum settler --------> spear
Berlin temple ----------> barracks

Turn 10, 70 BC - move troops


That was not a great set of turns, and the major weed at Hovd was inexcusable, for which I sincerely apologize. This game is going to be very difficult and I think we face a dark hour. However, as long as we stay focused and determined we should be able to win through.

Notes for the next player: a settler and spear pair are on the road out of Karakorum and can build a city where you think appropriate.

We are short of troops, especially spears. As I discovered to my cost, naval invasion is going to be dangerous in this game, especially as all our cities are coastal! That makes every one a feasible target. Unlike other games, therefore, we can NOT afford paper cutouts defending our cities. I know that regular warriors serve as well as elite mechanized infantry as military police, but our troops will be doing a lot of fighting as well as policing, so we need real troops - that means building them in cities with barracks. All settlers should be escorted by a defensive troop (ie, spear) which should defend the city as soon as it is formed (this was part of our problem with Hovd, that we did not take along a defender). Later we should try to get at least 2 defensive units per city, and a few fast units fortified on roads to bring help where needed. Also bear in mind that somewhere out there we have Vikings for company and their berserker is not far away, so city defence, even when there appears to be no danger, will be crucial.

I also suggest we keep building settlers, but not so many workers - I think we can rely on the Romans for a steady stream of involuntary labour :mischief:

Speaking of workers, the south-western part of our continent cannot be irrigated until electricity due to the opposing mountain range, so that area won't be much use until late in the game. The north can be irrigated, so plot the path of irrigation there, and do not mine all the grasslands near Karakorum and Ta-Tu, as we need to irrigate them to bring the mountains into play post-despotism.

If the area of (former) Hispalis does not hold a resource I'll eat my hat - the Romans seem attracted to it like a moth to light.

On a lighter note, has anyone noticed that our home island looks remarkably like Great Britain when viewed from the minimap? :D

Great Britain? (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightGB.jpg)

Nad, did you think that our little game was a bit to easy? ;) Oh well, let's see how we coop.

I got it and will play tomorrow.

Preturn: no changes.

Turn 1 - 50BC Nothing special

IT: A roman archer lands near Ulanbaatar. Why not? :crazyeye:

Turn 2 - 30BC Map Making invented. Research Code of Laws (to get Republic...). Karakorum switches to galley. Our elite horseman kills the Roman archer.

Turn 3 - 10BC Almarikh finishes settler and starts another.

Turn 4 - 10AD Ulaanbaatar finishes spear and starts another. Ta-Tu finishes horseman and starts settler.

IT: The Romans land two archers near Ulaanbaatar.

Turn 5 - 30AD Horseman kills one archer

IT: Roman archer kills warrior in Ulaanbatar.

Turn 6 - 50AD Tabriz starts horseman after building barracks. A swordsman kills the remaining Roman archer.

Turn 7 - 70AD Darhan founded, starts barracks.

Turn 8 - 90AD Karakorum finishes galley, starts horseman.

Turn 9 - 110AD Ta-Tu finishes settler and starts spearman.

IT: A Roman galley goes north towards our capital.

Turn 10 - 130AD Nad-zad founded. Starts barracks. Galley goes one tile to the east and founds a blue border. America?

Note for the next player. A settler goes south. The horseman with the settler may be better used to defend our nothern cities. I discovered a light blue border that possibly belongs to America. Our next victim. :soldier: I decided to research Code of Laws to get to Republic. A good government type at regent level I would say...

130 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight-130AD.SAV)

@ Aggie:

nice turns, just two things to point out

1) America is not in the game (remember?) - that blue border is likely China

2) Republic is most definitely NOT the government we want - monarchy is the government of always war. If we went to Republic, with us at war permanently, war weariness would kill us, and we would have to have another revolution and waste more time in anarchy. We should be researching polytheism and monarchy very soon.

Ok Meli, you're up. You might begin to see some real action in your turns...

I don't know if republic is THAT bad in a regent game. We've got an advantage regarding 'happy faces'...

And I totaly forgot about the specifics of this game... sorry ;)

Aggie, it's got nothing to do with the level we're playing at but everything to do with always war. Whether this was deity or chieftain, monarchy is the best government for always war, republic is a waste of time.

Lurk mode off.
I just finished a solo game on Regent where I was in a war with Shaka in the industrial age. He declared on me and I had huge WW problems within 6 or 7 turns as a Republic. Of course the fact I was using large stacks of artillery to pound his cities into rubble before attacking and razing didn't help any. :hammer:

Had to make peace or go to Monarchy. Chose Monarchy and wiped Shaka off the planet. :die:
@#*^% whiners. :lol:

Lurk mode on.

Turn 1 (150AD) - Galley in the north spots two roman galleys, hopefully at least one is sailing away. Swordsman in the west defeats two horsemen. Almarikh completes settler and starts horseman.
Turn 2 (170AD) - Two archers land dead north of Karakorum, horsemen sent north to investigate. One acher dies beneath the veteran horsemans hooves.
IT - Other roman archer attacks Karakorum and dies before the might of our spearman. News from the west, our beloved Elite Swordsman hath perished beneath the many clubs of rampant barbarians. We will miss him.
Turn 3 (190AD) - Karakorum completes training of our next horseman, all forces called south as the romans land a warrior and an archer next to Almarikh. Ta-tu completes training of another spearman and begins work on a galley. Scouting ships in the east have discovered the nearest roman city, whose lights shone across the water, was on an island! No chance of reinforcements unless ferry in by boat. And excellent oppurtunity we cannot afford to miss.
Turn 4 (210AD) - Oh merciful Taisen! We have been blessed, for amongst the Company of Elite Horsemen I sent south to see off the roman scum, was a great man. His father before him was a blacksmith and with strokes learnt from the forge, hew the enemy archers limb from limb. One man crashed his horse into the melee around Ogodei and not caring for himself, drew Ogodei to safety. The horseman, Batu, has been given command of a Tendu of his own. We shall raise the Wolfshead standard again and take the fight to the cowardly romans.
And of the roman archers and warriors? We carried their scalps home on our standards, to stand watch outside my yurt.
As soon as we make camp, Ogodei becomes agitated, he must leave, now for Berlin far to the south. He fears rebellion if immediate action is not taken. He jumps onto his horse and with a half bow galloped off into the night. The morning messenger brings news, Ogodie reached Berlin before sunrise and when the sun arose he was standing triumphant on the sacred hill to the east. The city awoke with his giant frame silhouetted in the morning sun. The people hailed him as a god. Work set about on making a throne room fit for such a man.
Forbibben Palace started and rushed with leader...
Turn 5 (230AD) - Forbidden palace built. Code of laws completed, philosophy started.
IT - Bad news from our galley in the east, exploring the roman lands, it was ambushed by a veteran roman galley and sunk off the east coast of ravenna. Also from the west, a barbarian horsemen has ambushed our scout. Our vision has been limited and I fear a trap.
Turn 6 (250AD) - Our archer crushes the horsemen and our settlers continue south.
Turn 7 (260AD) - Settler move west, galley off the coast to the far south.
IT - Roman galley drops an archer off the north of nad-zad.
Turn 8 (270AD) - Our elite archers finished off the roman scum.
Turn 9 (280AD) - Horsemen gathered in Ulaanbaatar. Galley builds next turn.
Turn 10 (290AD) - Philosophy completed started mathematics. Two boats of horsemen head for the roman shore.
Turn 11 (300AD) - Disembark my horsemen on ravenna island. Is has but two tiles of land so if we position 1 troop as well as a city on here the enemy cannot attack us. Also a curious thing has come to my attention, because of Kazan on the west coast, a central lake and Almarikh on the east coast we have fashioned a canal through the centre of our island! This is fantastic news!
Turn 12 (310AD) - Our horsemen kill two spearmen on the island of ravenna and two more horsemen arrive on the next boat.
IT - A roman city appears on the very south of our island, the impudence, plenty of horsemen in the training to curb their arrogance.
Turn 13 (320AD) - Our horsemen are victorious on Ravenna. The city burns to the ground, we scavenge some gold and we sink their galleys. All horsemen, except one lone scout, back on the galleys and back to Ulaanbaatar for the victory feast.

I will hand it over there. This is getting to be fun...

I hope people dont mind
a) Spending our GL on a forbidden palace in Berlin, I thought we had this pegged from scratch so I saved some time ;) Also If we reduce corruption earlier, we produce more in the long run. Quick = Good.
b) Playing 13 Turns :o If this is out of order please say and I will curb myelf in future. But in my defence the game would see an objective I had planned towards and there is plenty more for the next player to do, and hopefully lots to do it with.
c) Blatant plagarisation of everything I could fit in about the Mongolian people. I have read up on the Mongolian history and will try to accurately colour my reports as I can.

Melifluous

Have fun guys

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight320AD.SAV)

The Map (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight320AD.jpg)

@ Aggie: From the map, now I can see why you called that city Nad-zad....:o :o :D

@ Melifluous: fantastic turn, my friend!!! Rushing the FP was exactly the right thing to do :goodjob: I don't mind your playing 13 turns, I said we would be flexible and your play was entirely within the spirit of the game, so no worries at all

Good spot on the canal, I also noticed that a while ago but forgot to mention it. It will cut our ship movement time almost in half to get from one side of the island to the other.

I'm suddenly feeling very optimistic after that set of turns!

EDIT: couple more points

I like the entertaining report, Meli. From your map you're building lots of horses, this is fine vs archers or warriors but if the Romans start landing legionaries we'll need more swords. My question is, have we had any signs of legions yet? I haven't, and I don't think you guys have either. It could well be that the Romans don't have iron. If so, yippee!!!:lol: We can't check by contacting them (one of the variant rules) but if we can explore round their continent with a galley, that may reveal more

@Melifluous: great move to get that FP in Berlin :goodjob:

Looks like a fun name indeed.

@Nad: I called it Nad-zad, because the original name was so long. I didn't like to type in that name in my report, so I choose another: that of our great leader :p

Originally posted by Aggie
@Melifluous: great move to get that FP in Berlin :goodjob:

Looks like a fun name indeed.

@Nad: I called it Nad-zad, because the original name was so long. I didn't like to type in that name in my report, so I choose another: that of our great leader :p

Oh :o :o :o

I thought you called it Nad-Zad because it's at the site of former Hovd, in other words, the sight of my glorious military strategy :rolleyes: :o :D

Originally posted by Nad
I thought you called it Nad-Zad because it's at the site of former Hovd, in other words, the sight of my glorious military strategy :rolleyes: :o :D

That too, but I thought that I didn't have to mention that :)

Anyway. Are we at war with the Chinese already? Or didn't we get the chance to meet them yet after my turn?

Nope never got close enough to the chinese...

Just at war with the romans, and to answer a previous question, I have not seen any Legions yet. In fact the last warriors that landed were an archer and a warrior...
If the romans are still building warriors...

Melifluous

Inherited turn, 320 AD:

my plan in this round is to build us up a little so we can take the fight overseas. The next player should find us in a stronger position and with a stronger empire, and I will therefore concentrate on infrastructure while fighting defensively. I also wish to explore a little so we can learn more of the world we intend to conquer.

Science down to 60% to get +ve gpt. The military advisor says we are weak compared to Rome :gulp: Mandathing is completely undefended with a barb camp 3 squares away! That's 2 moves for a barb horse. Talk about inviting the enemy to burgle you...

Wake up archer in Nad-zad to investigate Virconium. Finding troops to defend the south of our empire is proving difficult, so I'm going to need to build some spears of my own.

A number of build switches as I anticipate my plans. Karakorum to harbour, Kazan to harbour and managed for higher food, Almarikh to granary (this has the potential to be one of our best cities so we need to get it as large as possible), Ulanbataar to harbour, Ta-Tu to harbour, Berlin to spear, Darhan to settler, and Choybalsam to warrior.

I stop the workers mining outside Ta-Tu; that blocks the irrigation path. In fact, the irrigation path is already blocked further south, outside Almarikh, as well. *sigh* someone's not been reading my instructions.

IT: Roman galleys sailing
Tabriz horse --------> settler

Turn 1, 330AD - Virconium is defended by a Roman archer only - our elite archer rubs his hands in glee. We have automated workers outside Nad-zad? That's a no-no. I begin to move galleys out to explore the seas and learn more about the Romans and to bring the Chinese (?) into the war.

Swordsman moves onto a road to be able to protect both Darhan and Nad-zad. Troops move, science increased to 70%

IT: there are loads of Roman galleys around. At least 4 are patrolling our shores, looking for spots to drop units off. Our south must look pretty inviting. It's a race to get troops there before the Romans do.

Turn 2, 340AD - I can only move a couple of troops down south w/o comprimising the defence of the northern part of our empire. This is not good, as we also don't have roads down there. Elite archer moves to be able to attack Virconium next turn. Our galley reaches the border of China, and we declare war immediately.

IT: the barb camp spawns a horse which is ready to sack Mandelathing next turn. *another sigh* There is nothing I can do to stop it.

Karakorum harbour ------> spear
Berlin spear -------> spear

Rome builds the Great Wall. Oh joy, they're in a golden age (having already built the Lighthouse, a commercial wonder)

Turn 3, 350AD - elite archer attacks Virconium and wins, taking just 1 damage. We obtain 12 gold and the city is auto-razed. More moves down south

IT: Barbs sack Mandyshouse, thankfully we only lose 6 gold.
Ta-Tu harbour -------> horse

Turn 4, 360AD - Our galleys exploring discover that China and Rome are on the same continent and both have silks. One day they'll be ours.

IT: Hmmm....http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightAztecs.jpg

Clearly we're not the only ones doing the fighting. A Roman galley sinks a barb galley. Polytheism researched, start monarchy.

Turn 5, 370AD - I intend to set up a settler trap at ex-Virconium. It's very simple. Stick 2 or 3 military units there on the high ground. let the Romans land settler pairs on the single tundra tile (low defence bonus, and the AI will continually land settlers in open spots), attack and add to the slave collection. Rinse and repeat.

IT: Romans drop a settler and spear on the northern island. We only have 1 horse there, so our chances are not good.

Manlygolf warrior -------> worker

Turn 6, 380AD - If we don't attack the Roman pair this turn, next turn they'll found and we'll have missed our chance to pick up some slaves. Bleh. Sometimes you have to take a risk, so I do and attack. And our horse dies. Oh well, can't say I didn't anticipate that, it was a calculated risk. A galley I held back for just such an occasion picks up a sword to ferry to the island to exact revenge.

Better news, a horseman in the south clears the barb camp, netting 25g.

Oh god, we have more automated workers. Those that were clearing the jungle outside Tabriz start working on the tile now that it's cleared. I am annoyed at this but I wouldn't be distraught were it not for the fact that one is mining the square and the other is irrigating it :rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes: I will only say this once and I hope that is enough. Please, please, DO NOT automate workers.

IT: Romans found Lutetia on the island. One of their galleys drops 2 archers off outside Mainlygone. We have 1 warrior there which has just completed, and a spear 1 square away which is arriving in the nick of time. I hope this is enough...

Karakorum spear -------> settler
Nad-zad barracks ---------> harbour

Turn 7, 390 AD - spear moves into Muckyground to add to the warrior there. I am trying to find surplus troops to move down south. I cross my fingers that Messygates will hold and press enter....

IT: Romans request audience. In a normal game I would consider this an opportune time to talk, but under the rules of this game, I order Caesar's envoy to be strung up by the larger of his testicles as an example of what happens to those who would even think of peace....

....and of course, Caesar gets his revenge. Both the Roman archers win and Minginggirls is captured. To add insult to injury, a Roman catapult bombards one of our galleys circling the Roman continent - that's supposed to be a HUMAN ploy, you nasty AI :mad: The only saving grace from the interturn is that one of the horses I sent from the north is in a position to recapture Milkygrass in our turn.

Berlin spear -------> spear

Turn 8, 400AD - our horse attacks and recaptures Mintygits! We also get 12 gold, having lost only 3 gold when the Romans captured it. Who says you can't make a profit out of defeat?:D The Romans must be considerably richer than us, therefore.
But victory brings another problem - our horse is down to 2HP and himself faces a counter-counter-attack from the other Roman archer who killed our spear in Mandolinging but who returned to the attacking tile because we also had a warrior. *even greater sigh* the only thing I can do is bring another horse up to counter-counter-counter-attack if the Roman archer should re-re-capture the MGcity. Oh god, this is getting complicated.

The sword we ferried across to the north island demonstrates some Temujine vengeance by defeating the spear and razing Lutetia, netting another 13 gold. Take that, Caesar, we'll make a salad of you yet...

IT: as expected, the Roman archer kills our horse, but....disaster! As Merrygoround is now size 1, it is auto-razed, so we can't re-re-capture it after all :cry: As if to demonstrate that the heavens deride my luck with cities, 2 Roman archers leap off another galley next to Chrybolsa-thingmajig. That is only defended by an elite archer. I couldn't get troops down south fast enough to defend Mangojuice, let alone Charcoalplace. *a sigh to end all sighs*

Ta-Tu horse -------> horse

Turn 9, 410AD - the only chance I have to defend CrazyBends is to attack the stack of 2 archers with our elite archer, hope he kills one w/o too much damage, and then hope he can somehow defend succesfully against the remaining archer. Allowing the 2 archers to attack us is suicide. So here goes. Some hope. We do kill the top archer, but our elite is knocked to 1HP!!! Why do the Gods torment me thus?:(

The horse who had moved to counter-counter-counter attack the archer at Murderground does attack the archer and wins, promoting to elite.

IT: as expected, the Roman archer kills our 1HP elite and auto-razes the city. I did not abandon the city as I previously did with Hovd because we had a chance, albeit minute, that our elite archer could pull a miracle to save the city, but the RNG was having none of it. So another one bites the dust.

The Romans land a spear and archer pair north of Darhan, a much better-defended city. I'm almost convinced now they don't have access to iron, but that seems a meek blessing with all the carnage around us.

Turn 10, 420 AD - our vet sword attacks the Roman spear freshly landed at Darhan (the Romans are now sending vet troops, so they've finally got round to building barracks). What a surprise, we lose, inflicting only 2 damage to the spear. Then, I use an elite archer to try to finish off the spear. He is badly wounded but his determination prevails as he fights back to kill the spear. And finally, as though taking pity on the misery they inflicted on this mere mortal, or perhaps in a mischievous demonstration of the fickleness of luck, the Gods smile on me again.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightNad::sRedemption.jpg

That archer is Nad's Redemption. Does a leader compensate for having lost 3 cities in my last 2 rounds? I think not, but then in the last round my defeat was my oversight, but this round there was little I could do to avoid the defeats. We had some bad RNG luck at some critical times, and we took a battering in the south because my plea to escort all settlers with spears was ignored. We could not defend our expansions because we couldn't get troops down quick enough, and because building roads over mountains ain't easy. The Romans with their 4-move galleys were simply quicker than us. Though the AI may be dumb in many respects, it has been programmed to spot weaknesses. Notice that our northern cities barely came under threat, though some of those were also only defended by 1 unit. The AI targetted those cities defended by archers or those that were undefended (as Machogarters was 1 turn before the landing and as Hovd was in my last turn), not those defended by spears. Let this be a lesson to us. In always war you must only expand as fast as you can defend. It appears that we have tried to expand without considering what we can defend. As I said last round, please take spears with settlers so we have a defence even when a city is newly-formed.

[Sidetrack over] back to the game, I fortified the leader in Berlin so the next player gets to decide what to do with him (an army would seem the obvious choice). I used a horseman to attack the archer that landed with the spear, and we won w/o a scratch and promoted to elite.

With my luck finally turning I am a little disappointed to be handing over to the next player, but I'm sure Aggie will do a sterling job. Remember what I've said about defence and workers. There are military units fortified across our empire, many with movement remaining, so familiarize yourself with their location before continuing. 3 settlers are shortly due for completion; there are excess spears in Karakorum and Berlin which can be used as escorts for these, but essentially we are looking to replace the cities we have lost. Don't build at ex-Virconium, though - that is where we want to set our settler trap ;)

The horse in the far south-west has been moved there to be able to attack the archer that razed Charlieclowns without himself being attacked in the interturn. That Roman archer is currently standing on the ruins of the city there (you can't see because it's hidden in the fog). But be aware that archer is there, and attack him next turn ( the horse is elite, so be sure to use our existing leader BEFORE attacking, to make sure we have a chance of popping another).

The exploration of Rome and China is nearly complete. The news is good. China has access to iron but is very small, probably only 4 or 5 cities. I don't think the Romans have iron, but they are slightly stonger, dominating that continent and with lots of nice terrain (I've never seen so many cattle as the Romans have got in all my life!) But taking over that continent should not be too difficult, and once we do, and we move our palace across to the center of that continent, we will already be in a game-winning position!

And that's that. I can't think of too much more to add, but will do so if I do. I'm still optimistic about the game despite the setbacks in my last 2 turns, and whatever else, this game is great fun and very addictive!!! Below are a few screenshots and the save.

Hear me now!!!!

The Empire (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight420ADEmpire.jpg)

Our Military (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight420ADMilitary.jpg)

Rome & China (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightRome&China.jpg)

And The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight420AD.sav)

Got it to play Friday!

Since English isn't my native language, I am not going to try to match both of you in your poetic language. Sorry for that...

Preparation:

Our military advisor suggests that we should be able to eliminate the Chinese enemy. Their military is weak. Canton is an obvious target for our first attack. We could use the incense. The advisor also has disturbing news about the strength of the Romans. We can't match them at the moment.

Our great leader goes north to join three horsemen in an army. Turning it into an invincible unit.

IT: A Roman archer appears just as our great leader Nad predicted.

Turn 1 - 430 AD Army created, two horsemen joined it and a third will follow next turn. We kill the Roman archer with our elite horseman, but no promotion...

IT: A Roman galley appears north of Darhan and drops off two archers.

Turn 2 - 440 AD Karakorum finished the training of a settler. Since we need more military, training of horsemen is ordered. Ulaanbaatar finished a harbor and also starts training horsemen. A third horseman joins our army that is now ready for the battle. 'Nad's redemption' and a second spear join Darhan for defence. Two spears and an archer against two romans should do the trick...

IT: One heroic spear was almost able to hold of two roman archers, but the last archer just survived and killed the spear. A roman galley sank our galley east of our main land.

Turn 3 - 450AD Our army won it's first battle. The roman archer was no match! :hammer: This opens the possibility to build the Heroic Epic, but it's too expensive at the moment (33 turns in Ta-tu). Better wait for another leader... Tabriz finished the training of another settler and starts training a horseman. In Berlin a spear is ready for duty and there also a horseman is the next military unit...

IT: There's word of a barbarian uprising near Berlin. Two civilizations must have entered the middle ages...

Turn 4 - 460 AD The training of horsemen continues. Ta-tu finished one and starts another. Darhan finished instructing the settler and starts the defensive spear unit.

IT: West of Berlin 19!!! barbarian horsemen appear :eek:

Turn 5 - 470 AD Our horseman near the barbarian Stack of Doom flees.

IT: Ehm, sorry...I forgot the screenshot, but....The Zulu are destroyed. :lol:

Turn 6 - 480 AD Nothing much in this turn. Three settlers go south.

IT: From this moment on, things are going to be more difficult, becuase without warning the ugly faces of the leaders of the Vikings and the Celts make themselves known. This insult can only be answered one way: :tank:

Turn 7 - 490 AD We discover Monarchy and go into anarchy right away. The Celts appear to be a mighty power. The Vikings appear to be a worthy opponent, no more and no less.

Turn 8 - 500AD Our anarchy causes starvation in two cities: Almerikh and Kazan.

IT: Two roman archers land north of Karakorum.

Turn 9 - 510AD Is this luck or is this luck? Our anarchy is over and we enter Monarchy! [party] We start researching mathematics. I send two spearmen to Karakorum and let our army defend Ta-tu. Two settler/defender pairs arrived at the south end our our island, only to meet a lot of barbarians...

IT: Two spearmen promoted to elite while succesfully defending Karakorum. A roman archer and spearman land at the same spot... A chinese settler/spear lands on the island near our east-coast... next to our veteran swordsman. :rolleyes:

Turn 10 - 520 AD Meli-zad founded at the south, on ruins of a city that I've never seen.... Immediate danger of barbarian attack though... The city has one spear and two horsemen defending it, and also another settler. Our sword beats the spearman (one hitpoint left) and captures the workers. The workers join a galley to be taken to our main land. Our army beats the roman spearman. And then....with what should have been my last move, I accidently attack the roman archer with our elite spear. :smoke: The spear loses naturally. Sorry guys, a typical mis-click. The horseman finishes the job that the spearman couldn't handle...


I sincerly hope that I didn't make TWO major mistakes in my last turn. Because about twelve barbarian horseman are waiting west of Meli-zad to take out our defenders, kill the settler a rob our gold. I hope you can forgive me... :blush: I had a head-ache and I should have stopped a moment...

I built up the military in my turns, in order to attack the Chinese with Canton as first target. We are in Monarchy now and in relatively good shape. The Vikings and Celts may make our lives a bit more difficult, but that's how we wanted it huh. Nad was already talking about victory in his previous turn...

EDIT: I want to include two screenshots and the save, but somehow I'm not able to upload at the moment. So you have to be patient a bit.

EDIT2: I've tried to get a decent save for an hour now and I give up for the moment. I coyldn't test the save that is attached now. If it isn't correct, I would say that I best send it via e-mail. I've got Meli's, but not Nad's yet... Sorry for the bother :(

520 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight520AD1.sav)

Great stuff, Aggie! A few thoughts:

1) " And then....with what should have been my last move, I accidently attack the roman archer with our elite spear. The spear loses naturally. Sorry guys, a typical mis-click."

I, for one, am glad you did not reload. In general it is accepted in the Civ community that misclicks are one of the few valid reasons to reload, and you were perfectly entitled to do so, yet you didn't, and I am pleased you did not. In my opinion human mistakes make up for human intelligence. The AI is simply a program, and that is why it is often outsmarted by Civ players, because it cannot "think", it can only "react". By the same token the AI does not misclick or move a unit by accident. The human player therefore has a strategic advantage in "intelligence" and should thereby also accept misclicks, because the very humanity that gives him/her an advantage in outthinking the AI is also the very same humanity that makes him/her prone to misclicking! Those that constantly moan that the AI is dumb and easily outsmarted who then go on to reload at every misclick they make are hypocritical in the extreme. (I think what I'm trying to say in my usual long-winded style is :goodjob: Aggie for not reloading!!!)

2) "There's word of a barbarian uprising near Berlin. Two civilizations must have entered the middle ages..."

This is good...we're only about 3 techs behind, not as much as we feared

3) "IT: West of Berlin 19!!! barbarian horsemen appear "

Welcome to raging barbs!!!

"I sincerly hope that I didn't make TWO major mistakes in my last turn. Because about twelve barbarian horseman are waiting west of Meli-zad to take out our defenders, kill the settler a rob our gold. I hope you can forgive me... I had a head-ache and I should have stopped a moment..."

This regent so we have a fair chance of defeating them (especially if the aforementioned defenders are spears)...if possible we should be keeping settlers out of the way until the uprisings are over.

4) You say the Celts are a superpower? Hmm, so they're probably reponsible for eliminating the Zulu and Aztecs. At least now we have contact with everyone left in the game. The fact that our contact was sold to them leads to a couple of conclusions, some of which may have important repercussions:

a) The Romans (with the lighthouse) must have contacted them and sold our contact. By the end of my turn I had nearly finished circumnavigating the Roman/Chinese continent, and there were no coastal waters leading to other islands.

b) Only the Romans, because of the lighhouse, can bridge the continents. This means we don't have to worry about fighting the Celts or Vikings until astronomy, and gives us an excellent opportunity totake out the Romans and Chinese before having to fight more civs

c) If we ever want to fulfill our ambition of capturing the Great Library to bring us up to date in tech, we have to capture the Roman city that has the lighthouse - if we research to astronomy, the Great Library will have expired itself for our use. On the other hand, as we are not so far behind, we may not need the Great Library.

Oh, and off-topic, my email is nadilyas@hotmail.com if you need to e-mail any files to me, Aggie

@Nad, did you download the save in my report and does it work? If not, I e-mail you.

EDIT: regarding the great lighthouse: I hope you're correct. Good thinking! This would make everything a little bit easier.

No, I haven't tried to download it because it isn't my turn, and I'm not at home! If Meli has any problems downloading it, then e-mail it to him (what seems to be the problem with your saves anyway? I notice that you've had trouble after each set of turns. Is it anything to do with different versions of the game?)

Originally posted by Nad
No, I haven't tried to download it because it isn't my turn, and I'm not at home! If Meli has any problems downloading it, then e-mail it to him (what seems to be the problem with your saves anyway? I notice that you've had trouble after each set of turns. Is it anything to do with different versions of the game?)

I e-mailed mel already and he confirmed that he recieved the save. I found what went wrong and I am pretty sure that I can avoid it in the future. It had something to do with the upload.

Yesterday however was different. Everyone had problems. Just look at the site feedback forum. And today I proved that my troubles are over: see CG5 ;)

Right done...
Can I just start by commending one or both of you for the excellent galley scouting of the roman/chinese island. Good work fellas.

IT - A few horsemen attack Meli-Zad, spear there is now elite. Almarikh completes Granary, starts Horseman. According to Herodotus' the largest nations of the world are (biggest first) Celts, Vikings, Mongols, Romans and Chinese.
Turn 1 (530AD) - Zzzzz
Turn 2 (540AD) - Veni-Vidi-Aggie founded on the southern tip of our island, where the roman city once stood.
IT - Barbarians pour past Meli-Zad. Even after several kill themselves at Meli-Zad I can still count 24 horsemen. Berlin completes horseman. Starts another. Two roman horsemen land north of Karakorum.
Turn 3 (550AD) - Two horsemen and archer in meli-zad reduce the barb numbers without leaving Meli-Zad. Elite horseman in Karakorum attacks the horsemen and dies without inflicting so much as a scratch. Damn the RNG. Our army takes out one of the horsemen in revenge.
IT - Continued barb attacks on Meli-Zad leave our spearman dead, but our vet horse becomes elite. Chinese galley off the east coast.
Turn 4 (560AD) - Troops from Meli-Zad reduce the barb horde. Troops moved into position to intercept Chinese troops fresh off the boat.
IT - Barbs kill horseman in Meli-Zad. Spearman and settler land on Ravenna island. Our swordsman there will take them out next turn.
Turn 5 (570AD) - Our swordsman takes out the Spear on Ravenna island, but has only 1 hp left!
IT - We lose a horseman to barbs.
Turn 6 (580AD) - Loads of horsemen complete this turn. After various barb killing acts (including a vicious spearman, attacking out of Nad-Zad) there are now only 5 barb horse in view.
IT - More barbs come into view. Roman galley heading for east coast.
Turn 7 (590AD) - Three more barbs die. Roman workers back in UlaanBaatar.
IT - More barbs die attacking Meli-Zad. Roman galley drops archer and horseman next to Darhan.
Turn 8 (600AD) - We lose a horseman killing the horse/archer. More barbs die outside Meli-Zad.
Turn 9 (610AD) - Troops moving to UlaanBaatar.
IT - Romans drop one horseman north of Darhan.
Turn 10 (620AD) - Elite horseman attacks roman horse and dies. Another elite horse attacks it and wins. 2 more barb horsemen die.

And that was that, troops building up in Ulaanbaatar. Some more galleys due next turn. All I could do this turn was repel roman invaders and try to stem the neverending flow of barb horsemen to the west. By the way the chinese galley is currently sailing down our west coast. Probably heading for barb country.

By the way if we get any more barbs overloads, I would suggest just spending all our money and leaving a city empty in their path, less dead on our part and we lose a few gold. Much better than that barb nightmare.

Melifluous

The Save 620AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight620AD.SAV)

Meli, sorry for putting you in this situation. But when I arrived at the southern tip of our island, I had to do something. Fleeing didn't seem to be an option...

No probs Aggie,

Gave me something to do except build up the military for Nad to take on China... :D

Just saying that next time I come across loadsa damn barbs I'm gonna leave the city gates wide open with a sign outside saying 'undefended city, help yourself' on it...

Otherwise, they kill your units, destroy your improvements, and generally make the place untidy.

Melifluous

!!!

I know how you guys feel about the barbs. At the moment I'm playing a solo AW game with the Aztecs, and the barbs are an absolute nightmare! I'm managing to fight off the other AIs with some ease but not the barbs:o

All I can say is that we should be thankful this is regent difficulty and not higher...

[got it, by the way]

Inherited turn, 620 AD. Implement 10% luxury expenditure to avoid the need for entertainers.

A few building switches: Kazan to courthouse, Tabriz to settler, Berlin to spear duty, Nad-zad to spear, Darhan to harbour and veni-vidi-Aggie to harbour (what a great city name, well done Meli! I was thinking "Aggieville" but V.V.A. takes the biscuit)

Before I continue, 2 gripes, both to do with workers. [Head-bang stage] - in both my last 2 reports I have begged and pleaded for irrigation to be brought north to Karakorum and Ta-Tu so we can bring those mountains into play. In my last turns I had to undo some mining to re-open the irrigation path. So what do I find at the beginning of this turn? Someone has blocked the irrigation path again by mining those squares I purposely left just roaded in anticipation of irrigation. :wallbash:

Second, the great mining project in the south (someone round here loves mines all too much). Aaargh!!!!!!!! Why are those workers mining deserts and plains?!? Those need to be irrigated!!! Nad-zad is a great example. Irrigate those plains and we've got a good city, able to grow at 2 food per turn and producing a fair crank of shields. But someone has mined those plains, so Nad-zad is stuck at size 2 with 4spt. Why?! This is pure weed :smoke: we need to think about what our workers are doing. Thankfully none of the workers are now automated, but if you're not sure of what to do with workers, don't hesitate to ask!

Right, got those off my chest, onward to enjoy the game. I agree with China as our target, but why Canton? It will take a lot longer to get troops there and there is no reason to think it will be any less heavily defended. I think Shanghai should be our target as we can get troops there in 1 turn from the 2-tile island. Speaking of which, we need to get a city on that island as a forward operating base, so I change Ulanbataar to settler for this purpose.

IT: Roman galleys approach, barb horse attacks our horse, we win w/o scratch, 2 more barb horses appear.

Construction complete, start Currency

Ulanbataar settler ---------> catapult

Turn 1, 630 AD - galleys begin to ferry troops across to 2-tile island. I will use the settler asleep in Melizad to build a city between Darhan and Meli-zad to plug that gap and stay away from the barb-infested south. Our horse and Nad's redeeming archer kill 2 barb horses. Stop units that were on go-to

Change Karakorum and Ta-Tu to aqueduct now that we have construction - getting to size 7 is very important - city centers produce an extra shield and gold, we can support an extra 2 military units, and we get a 50% defence bonus.

IT: 2 Roman galleys attack our galleys (I had the foresight at least to unload the units onto the island for this very reason). I need not have worried. Though our galleys take considerable damage, both win and both promote to veteran!
barb horse attacks our horse and we win easily. More barb horses swarm around (I thought the worst of the uprisings were over?)

Chinese galley sinks barb galley.

Almarikh galley ---------> temple
Nad-zad spear --------> temple

Turn 2, 640 AD - Baruun-Urt founded on the 2-tile island, set to worker. Damaged galleys enter to heal. Kill a barb horse in the south

IT: Berlin spear -------> harbour
Tabriz settler --------> temple

Turn 3, 650 AD - misc moves

IT: Roman galley approaches, Chinese request audience, lots more barbs, our elite horse succesfully defeats another

Turn 4, 660 AD - kill another barb horse in the south. Begin to move more troops across to Baruun-Urt - I think we'll need a lot more for a secure beachhead, but I'll see what I can do with the limited resources we have.

IT: Romans drop an archer. As for the barbs...



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightMoreBarbs.jpg

WTF?! I thought that only happened when 2 civs reached the middle ages. The Celts and Vikings are already there, and one glance at the foreign advisor screen shows the Roman and Chinese figureheads are still ancient. Clearly uprisings are not limited to just when 2 civs reach a new age.

Turn 5, 670 AD - Do you think our 4HP horseman can survive this?


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightTartar.jpg

Nope, me neither, I attack the top warrior and kill it, and begin to flee (those forests help me here, in preventing the barb horses catching up with me)

Nad's redemption kills another barb horse.

Ereem founded to fill a gap near our FP (therefore important low corruption tiles), set to harbour.

Begin the irrigation of the north. We need more workers. I wish the Romans were still dropping off settlers, but as they're not I will have to see what I can peel off.

Send the army to Meli-zad - that is where our front against the barbs will be.

IT: oh sugar! There is not one but 2 barb uprisings. I watch in horrified awe as about 40 barb horses start prancing around. One uprising is in the far south (that's the screenshot above) the other is in the far south-west (that must be the one the military advisor warned about, near Berlin, across the isthmus)

Turn 6, 680 AD - Kill a barb horse in flight back to Meli-zad. Begin the Chinese campaign. I have managed to muster 6 units, 1 spear, 1 sword and 4 horses with which to attack Shanghai, and I load them onto our 3 galleys. I don't think it will be enough, but at the very least, it is a good skirmishing opportunity to see what sort of defence the Chinese can offer. The troops land on the grass tile south of Shanghai (so they are not attacking across the river; I would have preferred to land on the mountain south of Shanghai but that would have meant attacking across the river).

IT: The Romans land a horse. A chinese sword appear across Shanghai and kills our spear w/o taking a scratch. Not a propitious start to the campaign, we now only have the 5 offensive units.

Currency complete, we enter the Middle Ages and start Feudalism.

Turn 7, 690 AD - the attack on Shanghai

vet horse vs fortified vet spear - our horse retreats having done 0 damage to the spear
2nd vet horse: kills the spear w/o a scratch and is promoted to elite!
3rd vet horse - dies w/o scratching the spearman (the RNG is really working on extremes here)
4th vet horse - kills the spear, losing just 1HP, and promoting to elite

We now have only the sword left to use. There is still a spear on top of Shanghai, and I know for a fact they also have a sword there, because it attacked from there to kill our spear in the last interturn. We cannot capture the city this turn and if we stay here we face slaughter in the interturn. So I load the troops back onto galleys and sail back to Baruun-Urt; we lost a spear and horse, the Chinese lost 2 spears and some worker turns (as they all fled into Shanghai when we landed). We also had 2 promotions. All-in-all even losses (though really we need a much higher kill ratio to win). We now have an idea though of what we need for a beachhead - I would recommend 15-20 units, at least 5 of those defensive units to soak up the counter-attacks. Not being able to use our army is a real blow, but, hey, that's life.

Our elite horse kills the Roman horse that landed, losing just 2HP.

IT: the barbs are coming.

Kazan courthouse --------> market
Ulanbataar catapult ----------> catapult

Turn 8, 700 AD - galleys drop units at Baruun-urt and head back to the mainland to await reinforcements. Shuffle troopps to act as MP so I don't need 20% lux just for Kazan. I count 17 barb horses ready to attack Meli-zad in the interturn, and countless more in ther fog.

IT: the barb horses ignore Meli-zad and clamber into the mountains, threatening our workers and inland cities. Jeez, these PTW barbs really are more intelligent. Not even one attacked the heavily defended Meli-zad, instead all headed inland. Though our army made use of its ZOC to knock a HP off a couple of them, this is still very dangerous for us, as we could lose workers, inprovements and units if the barbs start swarming around. So I think I will take up Meli's suggestion and give them an empty city to suicide themselves on. [Off topic - is this an exploit? I don't think so as we are still suffering a loss to the barbs and it would work out the same if the barbs attacked our cities and killed the units; so we reach the same end but save our units]

Turn 9, 710 AD - I spend our gold by rushing the cat in Ulanbataar (the only thing we could afford to rush); we now have only 6 gold left. I empty Meli-zad of military units and invite the barbs in to make merry.

IT: Romans drop a horse.

barbs hit the glue factory. The first one pillages our work on rax, the 2nd and 3rd kill people, the next 6 steal 1 gold each, then about 30 of them destroy work on barracks (ie nothing, as the work has already been destroyed).

Berlin harbour -------> granary
Almarikh temple ---------> horse
Ulanbataar cat --------> cat

The Celts start Sun Tzu's; we're not far from feudalism so if we get a leader in the near future we should make sure we prevent the AI's from getting this wonder.

Turn 10, 720 AD - as there are still 10 or so barb horses outside Meli-zad I leave it empty and switch it to building wealth. We only have 4 gold so we won't lose much to them. If the next player decides otherwise, we have plenty of military fortified right outside that can re-enter to defend the city.

Elite horse kills the Roman, horse, losing 2HP.

Notes to the next player: I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that it's 3rd time lucky that the irrigation projects are not vetoed. :p :(

The cats and galleys are in Ulanbataar - take the cats as part of the Chinese beachhead - they will be invaluable in establishing a beachhead. The rest of the offence is in Baruun-Urt - that's the spot to congrgate in prepaartion for invasion.

There is a settler and military fortified outside Meli-zad. I would suggets letting the barbs suicde themselves but feel free to veto if you want. Be sure to clear the barbs before letting the settler venture into dangerous territory. [In grim amusement I am reminded now of Meli's suggestion when we discovered the first barb camp back in about 2000BC - leaving the camp there as promotion fodder. Still feel the same way about barb camps, Meli? :D :p :D ]

We need more workers, so see what you can manage. Don't build them from size 7 cities though, as we lose the granary effect as well as the size 7 benefits. Somewhere like Nad-zad will be good to build workers once it has acquired a temple and granary.

I like this game even more every round I play. I have spent 6 hours playing and writing up this round, but time well-spent. The game is nicely-poised - eminently winnable but we have a lot to do, as the histograph below shows. I am certainly concerned that the Celts may use their isolation to run away in tech and power, so at some stage we have to formulate a plan to knock them down a peg or two.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightHistograph720AD.jpg


Aggie is up, here's
the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight720AD.sav)

4 SG's and a single player game. :crazyeye: I got it but this one has to wait. Probably will play tomorrow.

Don't think you're overcommiting, hey Aggie?;) :D

No worries, take as much time as you need, I like to play easy-paced with lots of time in between turns to discuss stategy and options

:lol: This is how my turn started :lol:

Nad, I don't think it's an exploit to have an undefended city...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/workonwealth1.JPG

I didn't change much, only a galley goes to Baruun-Urt island. A short story this time: I did have time to play, but not to write. Sorry...

IT: Barbarians storm the indefended city of Meli-zad.They steal some change.

Turn 1 - 730AD: Zzzzzz

IT: Barabrians, again...

Turn 2 - 740AD: Ta-tu: Aquaduct->horsemen. Baruun-Urt: worker->worker. We must lower science, since we are going bankrupt.

IT: Brabarians party in Meli-zad...stops that nonsense!!! Romans land north of Darhan, with