Hi im working on a BElGIAN civ!
Yep you heard it.A Belgian one.
Why?????
Well:
Belgium:important in WW1 and WW2 scenarios
Its my homecountry
Part of the axis of evil in Europe ;)
Now ive been working on it and all i have now is the city list,great leaders and names and such
But now i need something very important!
Leaderheads and an UU animation.
I was thinking about Belgian infantry with 6/12/1 stats ADM
:)
So now i need guys who are willing to make:
Leaderhead of Albert 1
UU graphic of modified Infantry
And other details,like civilopedia entry, im to stupid for it.
So who is willing to help me?
Btw i made Belgium a scientific and commercial country.
Any comments,hints,pics and or leaderheads and UU graphics you are free to post here and/or PM me :)

Originally posted by philippe
I was thinking about Belgian infantry with 6/12/1 stats ADM

I just have a question. Umm . . . when has the Belgian Infantry ever showed superior defensive capabilities? I'm not a history expert, but wasn't Belgium overrun by Germany on at least one occasion?

Maybe Belgium's unique unit should be an infantry with two movement points . . . so it can retreat. ;)

Sorry, if this sounds rude, but I'm curious why you would give Belgian Infantry a defensive bonus.

Uhm In WW2 the Belgiums kept i stand for 18 days while the Dutch only could hold it for 5 days
+Belgians are known to have been spirited defenders.
Had Belgium the equal amounts of troops as Nazi Germany then it would certainly hold stand.
And WW1...A Germans worst nightmare ;)

Wheres Joespaniel when you need him????
:mischief:

Originally posted by utahjazz7


I just have a question. Umm . . . when has the Belgian Infantry ever showed superior defensive capabilities? I'm not a history expert, but wasn't Belgium overrun by Germany on at least one occasion?


LOL I was thinking the same thing before I saw your post.

And Belgium was overran by Germany on two occasions (1914 and 1940).

As for Belgium as a civilization, they really are kind of a mix between 3 civilizations (Dutch, French, German).

Originally posted by philippe
Uhm In WW2 the Belgiums kept i stand for 18 days while the Dutch only could hold it for 5 days
+Belgians are known to have been spirited defenders.
Had Belgium the equal amounts of troops as Nazi Germany then it would certainly hold stand.
And WW1...A Germans worst nightmare ;)

No offense......

LOL LOL LOL

As an avid reader of history, WWII being one of my favorite areas, let me state some facts (your facts about 18 days vs. 5 days are correct though).

The Dutch were reinforced by the French 7th Army, which was lacking in tanks and other modern equipment, and also was one of the smallest French armies. Rotterdam was bombed like no city ever had been to that point in history, the day before the Dutch surrendered. The Dutch had roughly 10 divisions to defend their flat river-filled country. The Germans used Airborne units to capture bridges across said rivers intact (some of these drops failed though).

The Belgians were reinforced by the BEF (British Expeditionary Force, 9 divisions), as well as the bulk of the French Armies (3 I believe) with the majority of their armored formations and other modern equipment. The Belgians had roughly 22 divisions to defend their highly forested, somewhat hilly terrain, as well as a well-fortified river line (Dyle Line) which took the terrain into good use (and Belgium's population was a bit higher at this time). The Belgians had the world's strongest fortress (Eban Enamel I think its called), which was taken by 80 German glider troops in a few hours (vs. 1200 Belgian defenders). Within a few days the Dyle defense line was outflanked by the Germans moving through the Ardennes, which eventually cut the Belgians off.

Now, in your defense, The Netherlands were assaulted only by one German Army, while Belgium was assaulted by 2/3 of an Army Group (2 German Armies, the other was in The Netherlands). Though, with 50 German Divisions in the entire Army Group vs. 22 Belgian, 10 Dutch, 9 British, and alot of French (I forget the exact figure)...doesn't say well for either country.

The Poles held out for a month with no help, and even were hit by the Soviet Union 17 days into the attack. And their army was certainly less modern than the Belgians or the Dutch. (cavalry vs. tanks? lol)

Less familiar with WWI though, but I can state that within the first couple months, nearly all of Belgium was overran and was German held till late 1918 (when the war was nearly over).

"Had Belgium the equal amounts of troops as Nazi Germany then it would certainly hold stand."

I disagree...called tanks and planes. (and superior ones at that)

I am, though, trying to think up of a good Belgian UU for you...just to be fair :)

Ok, the Belgians were good at building fortifications, so why not give them a better Worker/Engineer unit?

I would probably go with an advanced rifleman, since they won their independance in 1830.

Problem with that though, is that "advanced rifleman" didn't do anything till 1914. By that point, infantry would be the more appropriate unit.

huh??? no, an advanced version of the rifleman. you know, a rifleman with an extra attack or defence? their uu would replace the rifleman.

I realize that, but there was no fighting for their independence in 1830, which means, why should that unit be advanced for them, if they never used it? How do we know it was any better than someone else's rifleman?

Belgian Engineer: 0/5/2 Cost: ?

What about some sort of Colonial thing? Afterall they had a huge colony in Africa.

Belgium sucked in both WW's, especially in 2nd as procifica pointed out.

They were granted independence and got Congo because no other major power wanted to leave it to another in 1885, so it was placed under King Leopold's authority. So really there is no outstanding soldiery, or colonization going on.

I think an Engineer is a good idea but I haven't heard of any belgian engineers that stood out. Any fortresses they built were quickly defeated so I don't see any point in building that either.

Of course it'd be nice if these belgians would have a UU but sadly nothing really stands out, other than quick defeat and a lot of unwarranted whining in WW1 which=allied propaganda....

I would explore the possibility of a UU that's post WW2. Maybe a Mech Inf.

Hmm.....
Belgium put off a spirited defence,but maybe we can go VERY back in time to 1302 where in the Flemmish defeated a small French army in the mud so maybe an medieval infantry with 5/2/1
(that would be a killer)+you then can use the flemmish lion flag
black lion on yellow background....

Originally posted by philippe
Hmm.....
Belgium put off a spirited defence,but maybe we can go VERY back in time to 1302 where in the Flemmish defeated a small French army in the mud so maybe an medieval infantry with 5/2/1
(that would be a killer)+you then can use the flemmish lion flag
black lion on yellow background....

True. I guess you can say spirited but I don't think it was real effective.

I guess the medieval infantry would be a good idea but you have to consider that there is no national identity in any country at that time but it seems to me that it would be the best fit.

How should such an infantry look like?

hmm what about an medieval infantry with as shield the black lion on yellow background and dressed in peasant clothes.(it where peasants and workers who killed knights :D )
and a sweapon a bat or so..dont know correct word sorry :)
a "knuppel"
Becuase the Flemmish peasants bashed it on the French heads....
Hehehehehe :) ;) :D :cool:

Medieval infantry sounds good to me as well, Flemish Infantry at that time period were well-known for their fighting ability and prowess, the English used them alot as mercenaries as well as allies against the French.

And I only pointed out the Engineer for lack of any better alternative at the time (I never thought to think back to before Belgium itself existed), as they did as I stated, have the world's strongest fortress at one time.

Originally posted by Procifica
Ok, the Belgians were good at building fortifications, so why not give them a better Worker/Engineer unit?

They sure had. Pb is they were efending from the land while Germans used paratroopers. Maybe a kind of fortification unit (might be the same pb as land mine though).

UU: the Belgica kicked some Roman ass against Caesar!!

Oh, but I don't think that anything resembling Belgian nationality existed then, nor that it had anything to do with modern Belgians.

I personally don't consider Belgium to be a civiliztion, but rather a mix of 2 kinds of people (Wallons and Flemish, therefore a Roman vs. a German culture) who where forced into a nation by Great-Brittain to form a buffer against France. I would chose a Flemish civilization, because in history (far before the formation of Belgium) Flanders had a LOT more to offer then Wallonia
(Bruges, Venice of the North, Gent which was a popular residence for the high society, Antwerp, etc...), where Wallonia only had the industry peak in Luik for about 50 years. Sure, Belgium as a whole played an important role in WW1 & 2, but does that stand up against 1500 years of pure Flemish history (although Flanders has never been independent throughout history)?

Uhm Flanders HAS been indepand for a while...only to be conquered by marriage by the burgondiers...
So nice theory but whos gonna make the unit and the leaderhead?

hmm is anyone buzy with this?

I might be a little late, but to add my two cents about the UU:

The Flemish army of peasants you're talking about used a weapon called the Gudendag ("Good Day") to defeat the French. It was effectively a big, rectangular block of wood on top of a wooden pole, with iron spikes sticking out of the block in all directions. So if someone does do the special Medieval Infantry as the UU, it could be a man in peasant dress wielding one of the above-mentioned weapons (call the unit a "Gudendager" maybe?) OK, I'm done....

but whos gonna make it?
I need some guys here who are willing becuase i am too stupid

Don't call yourself stupid phillipe. You, probably just like me, lack the immense amount of time and patience that's required to make these units.

I got photoshop 7 and willing to put time in it and i tried but when i was 30 minutes buzy it all crashed...
and i had so much problems and f***ed it all up

Hence what I just said :)

focusing on the patience part

when i tried to colour my MI went tottally yellow...:(

I've heard of the Gutentag before... I seem to recall them doing something with it... Now what was it... Oh yeah bashing the invading Norman's heads in :)
I like the idea... I'll put a peasant warrior on my list of units.

Kinboat, please make that unit. I don't intend to add a Belgian civ to my game, but I'd love to have the Gudendager as a unit, maybe a resourceless, weaker Medieval Infantry for those down-and-out countries who are being invaded by a major power and need a desperate weapon? Also, just a suggestion for when you make the attack animations (I know its early, but whatever), try to make it so the unit uses all methods of using the gudendag (why its so effective): thrusting (Attack A), slashing (Attack B), and hitting downward (Attack C.) Many thanks in advance. :)

hmm....
If it has to be an UU either im gonna make it resourceless or i will make it 5/2/1 or 4/2/2