View Full Version : TSG25 Game in Progress


leif erikson
Dec 01, 2011, 07:53 AM
Welcome to the TSG25 Game in Progress thread. This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing. There are no reading or posting restrictions as such (apart from normal decency), although we encourage players to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind. :)

Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through about the first 80 to 100 turns.

- What were your initial priorities?
- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
- What tech path did you follow?
- Did you prioritize any Wonders?
- In this game, more City-States were added, how did this affect your strategy?
- How does the larger map size and Epic game speed affect your strategy

Once you've completed the game, head over to the TSG25 After Action Report thread.

thio
Dec 01, 2011, 09:17 AM
Already want to stop the game .. 1 turn to colossus and then someone else built it. I started an early war, that provided me with 2 workers, and while i manage to kill anything my enemy throws at me, it's kind of impossible to actually conquer any land. I have a warrior, a swordsman, a trireme and another swordsman in production, but that is it for iron (only 2 available). I guess Suleiman will connect his own iron soon and then its over. His city is in a hard to reach spot, and i doubt i can take it without a lot more ranged support with all his warriors around. Where do they get them all? i already killed about 5 and 1 trireme , and there are still 3 left. Plus he built two more workers for himself. High difficulty is just unfair :/

Maybe i should be happy i got the Great lib at least.

thio
Dec 01, 2011, 10:52 AM
Turn 150:

Got 2 of Suleimans minor cities, capital has a bit high defense at the moment. Germany is the strongest force around, i'm glad we're friendly.

I managed to build the NC after i failed the Colossus. It doesn't look quite as grimm as i thought it would at this point. Army is at 1 warrior, 2 swords, 1 archer, 2 chariots, 2 trireme. I will try to get the capital now, which will likely fail. If it works out i will probably integrate it instead of just puppeting to get one more source of iron. I might have more iron soon from the minor city north of ottomans capital.

Moneywise i'm quite strong (Suleiman sued for peace at 1500g once), and i have two RAs going at the moment. I need that Iron...

Research is okay thanks to the two wonders, but could be better. I'm trying to get Longbows right now.

trueblue
Dec 01, 2011, 01:44 PM
heavy use of the F10 key...

trueblue
Dec 01, 2011, 01:48 PM
doesnt Suleiman know that all he is doing is granting my Triremes xp while i wait for Navigation to come online?

trueblue
Dec 01, 2011, 02:37 PM
Complete kills: the victory progress tab is showing the ottomans as out the game, their capital city lost.


so do i, or do i not, have to wipe out the rest of the Civ to qualify for domination?

leif erikson
Dec 01, 2011, 02:54 PM
so do i, or do i not, have to wipe out the rest of the Civ to qualify for domination?
Domination requires only that you capture or destroy the starting capital city of each civ.

In fact, as far as I understand, if another civ takes a rival's capital, you do not need to retake it unless the original owner gets it back.

trueblue
Dec 01, 2011, 02:58 PM
cheers boss!


it does beg the question then, why bother with the complete kill criteria?

leif erikson
Dec 01, 2011, 03:26 PM
it does beg the question then, why bother with the complete kill criteria?
Not sure, so I'll speculate. (and probably get into trouble) :mischief:

In past games in the series, one of the VC's was Conquest, where all the civs had to be destroyed. Playing for conquest with complete kills was a nightmare! :shake:

Suspect that complete kills is a hold over from the series. :dunno:

thio
Dec 01, 2011, 03:58 PM
Turn 200:

I took Ottomans Capital with 3 unit losses (warrior, trireme, swordsman), then realized that the only foreign land i could see was german, and i didn't want to go for them. So i bid my time, scouted around, finally found greece and went there once i had built/upgraded me 3 longswords. Looks good so far, took the nearest city easily (though its a crappy city, but it gives me a base of operations). Theyre mainly fighting with pikemen. Army is at 3 longswords, 1 longbow, 2 trireme, 2 chariots.

Policywise i don't have much anyway, not really bringing up culture. I took liberties worker settler and production, then started to expand on commerce.

Also i am thinking that i should maybe have built archers instead of chariots (found out they upgrade to knights instead of longbows *cringe* mounted units are so useless most of the time..), but on the other hand, their mobility came in handy a few times.

qutsemnie
Dec 01, 2011, 10:55 PM
Just lost my second founded city on turn 144. First city I have ever lost in Civ 5. Happened fast too. Think this one is over! I shouldn't have gone for 4 cities. Went for a founding at Ivory, at Sugar, and at Banana's. Stayed Happy but hard to defend all that with the investment in settlers to boot.

thio
Dec 02, 2011, 03:54 AM
I give up.. I could survive just fine, maybe settle a little, but conquering cities, especially the capitals seems just plain impossible. How am i supposed to take a 35 defense city with longswords?

I mean, my army has a technology advance, but it just doesn't work.

NZL
Dec 02, 2011, 03:57 AM
Not sure, so I'll speculate. (and probably get into trouble) :mischief:

In past games in the series, one of the VC's was Conquest, where all the civs had to be destroyed. Playing for conquest with complete kills was a nightmare! :shake:

Suspect that complete kills is a hold over from the series. :dunno:

I'm gonna speculate too, cause I'm not sure about the rules, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you turn complete kills ON, an AI is still able to recapture his original Capital and thus re-enter the Domination race, even after you've taken the last city of that AI.
If complete kills is OFF, all the AI units disappear when you've taken it's last remaining city

Can this be correct?

qutsemnie
Dec 02, 2011, 04:20 AM
I give up.. I could survive just fine, maybe settle a little, but conquering cities, especially the capitals seems just plain impossible. How am i supposed to take a 35 defense city with longswords?

I mean, my army has a technology advance, but it just doesn't work.

I didn't do as well as you because I didn't tech well, but I have done well with this civ before. The longbows are OP (overpowered). 3 range == don't even have to exchange to bring a city down to 0 defense. When you said 3 longswords and 1 longbow I thought to myself, "mix is wrong." This civ should be 3 longbows and 1 longsword, and from previous experience 3 longbows + horse is OP. The longswords have to exchange one turn to get in range. 3 longbows + 1 horse can take cities with no exchanging whatsoever and also the horses scout nice for longbows. I never have any trouble mowing down AI civs with the English if I get rolling they were one of two civs I sort of learned the game on. In addition you can get Ship of the Line up to 3 range too with vetting (frigates in general), its worth aiming for but its a ton of vet.

thio
Dec 02, 2011, 06:15 AM
yeah, i should have built more longbows, but they only take 2 or 3 points of a city, and the city regenerates about 5 or so per turn, so even with 3 longbows, even if they arent having any other units you have to deal with, 3 longbows wouldn't suffice, it would take forever. I also have 2 Ships in the fight by now, doesn't help. Well, and that i'm at -11 happiness right now doesn't help either..

Aaronius
Dec 02, 2011, 06:22 AM
- What were your initial priorities?

My initial priorities were to hook up resources and explore the map. The city-states and ruins had me salivating. The size of my landmass and the presence of at least one neighbor complicated those initial priorities quickly.:eek: Ultimately I decided on a quick two-city, exploration and defense opening strategy.

More recently I founded a third city on the island to the west with sugar and Hanoi. I’m waiting for Iron to pop to determine my final city cite. I’m hoping some iron will pop within the radius of my existing cities, or on the part of my continent due north or the big island to the NW .


- What Social Policies did you choose and why?

I decided that I should expand as rapidly as possible to get the second city spot I wanted:

Liberty → Collective Rule (fast second city with Ivory) → Honor (plenty of barb killing to do) → Republic (don't need the worker yet)→ Tradition (bit more culture)

Next I will likely take the tradition policy that makes the soldiers in the cities free. Then I will finish out the right side of honor for the culture and happy bonus plus cheaper upgrades. All of my units will need upgrades before I go on the attack.

After that, I'm thinking commerce for once?...



- What tech path did you follow?

Mining (gold and gems)→ Pottery → Sailing (tri's and workboats)→ Animal Husbandry → Trapping (ivory)→ Optics (ruins)→ Wheel → Archery (archers, eventually longbows)→ Calendar (sugar)→ Iron (swords eventually LS)



- Did you prioritize any Wonders?

Because it dovetailed with my tech order I chose to go for Great Lighthouse. Even chopping the one available tile I missed by 8 turns.:cry: Originally I was going to target Hanging Gardens but other tech priorities derailed that one as well. I will still try for Hagia Sophia maybe. I might go all out for knights and Longbows and not do any wonders until late. I'll be conquering everybody so RAs will suck. The capitals should have my wonders in them when I conquer:king:




- In this game, more City-States were added, how did this affect your strategy?

More city states and ruins, along with the archipelago map and me being England all point towards a sea exploration strategy. I’ve met Greece and Siam so a patronage strategy will be highly contentious. I'll focus on killing some neighbors then when everyone hates me anyway, I'll go for some CS allies.:cool:


- How does the larger map size and Epic game speed affect your strategy?

Not sure. I tried two marathon games before this. Overall, I notice that longer games make me a more competitive player with the AI. Everything goes frustratingly slow, but it makes me give more thought to every decision as I'll be waiting forever for each little thing. This ends up causing me to play smarter relative to AI. My mistakes as an average player are less amplified when time goes slower b/c I have more time to realize my mistakes as well. Compared to Marathon, Epic seems fast now :crazyeye:



I got mixed luck early with only one ruin on my landmass and the Sully beat or blocked me to the others. However, the barbs got one of Sully's workers and he ultimately fell into my lap.

More recently I got to five more ruins on other islands. Of the six ruins I got one unit upgrade, one tech (Bronze), two citizens joining my population, a map, and the location of an encampment… no gold, no culture.

I think the game is broken in certain ways. I have a spearman, two warriors, two archers, and four triremes; yet the game says my military is 13th out of 16, and half the average… can this be? It also says I have zero % research even tho I have nine techs completed. Something is a bit broke somewhere…

Sully declared war on me the very next turn after he paid me for my gold for the second time :lol:. I’m fighting a purely defensive battle with an archer and a galley near my second city. I’ve got DOFs with Ramses and Wu. Sully won’t give me an even peace so I’m waiting for Iron to pop and hopefully can upgrade my two warriors to swords. Maybe he’ll give me a better deal then. I’ll beeline military techs soon and try to attack Sully with Longswords and Crossbows... maybe add a knight thanks to my super smart fellow posters above:goodjob:

danglading
Dec 02, 2011, 08:47 AM
Not sure, so I'll speculate. (and probably get into trouble) :mischief:

In past games in the series, one of the VC's was Conquest, where all the civs had to be destroyed. Playing for conquest with complete kills was a nightmare! :shake:

Suspect that complete kills is a hold over from the series. :dunno:

Leif: I guess I assumed that you were the map maker, but based on your response above I'm thinking that's not right. So, out of idle curiosity, where do the GotM maps come from? Who makes them? I noticed that there was some fairly spot-on speculation in the "What to do with GOTM 25?" thread the day before the game was actually posted, so are the games based on another series somewhere? Again, I'm just curious about these sorts of things.

Excellent map so far! I'm something like 90-ish turns in and will post a status report when I get home and can jot down a few notes.

Aaronius
Dec 02, 2011, 08:49 AM
I had to restart my game for a reason that I think should not disqualify me. I was exploring with a trireme thru french territory. I decided to go thru paris to get to the water on the other side. I chose a square that was not revealed but the program allowed it. When the unit moved inside paris it was revealed that the tile I was moving to was actually land. Both adjacent water spaces had a unit in it, and my trireme only had one move left. Thus I was stuck and the game could not continue. I believe that the game was in error by allowing me to move a trireme onto a land space, so I think I should be able to restart. What do you guys think?

danglading
Dec 02, 2011, 08:52 AM
I had to restart my game for a reason that I think should not disqualify me. I was exploring with a trireme thru french territory. I decided to go thru paris to get to the water on the other side. I chose a square that was not revealed but the program allowed it. When the unit moved inside paris it was revealed that the tile I was moving to was actually land. Both adjacent water spaces had a unit in it, and my trireme only had one move left. Thus I was stuck and the game could not continue. I believe that the game was in error by allowing me to move a trireme onto a land space, so I think I should be able to restart. What do you guys think?

As a humble participant, I would say that's a slam dunk. You should have an autosave within 5 turns (unless you've disabled them or changed the settings), so I would just open the most recent save you have available and replay the turns as honestly as you possibly can up to the glitch. I've reloaded an autosave before when Civ crashed to desktop and didn't think twice about the ethics of it.

Again, this is just my completely unofficial opinion, but it seems well within the ethical constraints of GOTM to reload in this situation.

Aaronius
Dec 02, 2011, 10:23 AM
As a humble participant, I would say that's a slam dunk. You should have an autosave within 5 turns (unless you've disabled them or changed the settings), so I would just open the most recent save you have available and replay the turns as honestly as you possibly can up to the glitch. I've reloaded an autosave before when Civ crashed to desktop and didn't think twice about the ethics of it.

Again, this is just my completely unofficial opinion, but it seems well within the ethical constraints of GOTM to reload in this situation.

I appreciate your humble opinion. I feel like it is a game error. I did go back to my autosave b/c I couldn't part with a veteran trireme for no good reason. If it is actally the way the game is supposed to work, then I will just be a cheater I suppose. I have lots of game errors in this game. It says my military is the second weakest but I know its strong b/c everybody wants friendly relations with me. A lot of the demographic info is screwed up actually.

Good luck in your conquest!

danglading
Dec 02, 2011, 11:05 AM
- What were your initial priorities?
I wanted to get explorers in the water ASAP (to chase down the promised goodie huts, meet all my future conquests, and find choice sites for expansion), and I wanted the Great Lighthouse (triremes with 7 moves? yes please!).

I settled in place, built a worker, then a scout, then started on the GL. I sent my warrior along the only available path, popped a spear upgrade at the first goodie hut I found, then ran into Suleiman. My spear and scout defogged the island I started on, then headed back to the capital to await Optics. My initial triremes began defogging to my west and north, picking off occasional barbs along the way. My second city went due south to pick up the ivory and my third (from Collective Rule) will head to one of the two islands to my west/northwest.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
I took the Honor opener first, for the culture bonus from barb kills, then shifted to Tradition opener followed by Aristocracy to help my shot at the GL. Next I took the Liberty opener with my next target being Collective Rule, for the Settler bonus.

- What tech path did you follow?
Pottery->Sailing - Go for that GL and get some triremes in the water!
Mining - Hook up the nearby resources.
Writing - I needed opened borders with Suleiman to get my troops back home, and I might as well take a stab at the GLib.
Currently working on Optics to get my units off my island. My upcoming path is Archery->Animal Husbandry->Bronze Working->Iron Working.

- Did you prioritize any Wonders?
As stated previously, I put the Great Lighthouse at the top of my list. The added mobility and visibility, on top of the Civ ability, figure to grant me some extreme flexibility moving forward. I popped it on turn 62! :goodjob: Woohoo! My triremes are cruising around the globe like they're in the America's Cup, and the insta-lighthouse is sure nice.

Now I'm taking a stab at the GLib. If I get it, I'll use it on Compass, to get my trade network going. If I get beat (17 turns to go... :dunno:), I'll get some extra cash and buy some extra troops or something.

- In this game, more City-States were added, how did this affect your strategy?
So far, not much. I mostly want to meet as many of them as possible as fast as possible to get the cash bonus. From there, I hope to buy up some allies for the resources, but I've never been able to consistently generate the cash needed to keep many CS allies at once.

- How does the larger map size and Epic game speed affect your strategy
Also not sure, really. I feel I need to expand harder and faster than normal, to take advantage of the extra map area, but other than that I'll have to see. It placed even more priority on the extra movement from the GL, that's for sure.

Having a great time so far, hopefully I'll get some military units before long and start laying down the :hammer:

leif erikson
Dec 02, 2011, 11:25 AM
I had to restart my game for a reason that I think should not disqualify me. I was exploring with a trireme thru french territory. I decided to go thru paris to get to the water on the other side. I chose a square that was not revealed but the program allowed it. When the unit moved inside paris it was revealed that the tile I was moving to was actually land. Both adjacent water spaces had a unit in it, and my trireme only had one move left. Thus I was stuck and the game could not continue. I believe that the game was in error by allowing me to move a trireme onto a land space, so I think I should be able to restart. What do you guys think?
You should have your autosaves set to 1, so it saves each turn. You may go back to the autosave and try to replay it the same way you originally did as best as you can remember, except for moving the Trireme.

I do not think this is an error in the game, imnsho you should not take such chances with your better units. Just because the game allows you to move doesn't mean you should? In my years of playing gotm, I have learned that I should move a single tile/hex at a time because guessing, or in my case more of impatience, causes me to sometimes move where I wished I had not. Please always try to leave yourself an out because the software will not do that for you.

Leif: I guess I assumed that you were the map maker, but based on your response above I'm thinking that's not right. So, out of idle curiosity, where do the GotM maps come from? Who makes them? I noticed that there was some fairly spot-on speculation in the "What to do with GOTM 25?" thread the day before the game was actually posted, so are the games based on another series somewhere? Again, I'm just curious about these sorts of things.
I create and test all of the maps on my PC. That does not mean I understand everything that Firaxis does nor does it mean I am the best player here that understands all Civ5's game mechanics. Unfortunately, I do not. :blush:

The speculation was done by downloading the save early and extracting from it the knowledge needed to create what you saw based upon earlier announcements. Speculation such as that causes confusion and I would appreciate it if it did not happen again.

danglading
Dec 02, 2011, 11:31 AM
Oops! I hope I didn't get anyone in trouble! :(

Aaronius
Dec 02, 2011, 12:20 PM
You should have your autosaves set to 1, so it saves each turn. You may go back to the autosave and try to replay it the same way you originally did as best as you can remember, except for moving the Trireme.

I do not think this is an error in the game, imnsho you should not take such chances with your better units. Just because the game allows you to move doesn't mean you should? In my years of playing gotm, I have learned that I should move a single tile/hex at a time because guessing, or in my case more of impatience, causes me to sometimes move where I wished I had not. Please always try to leave yourself an out because the software will not do that for you.


I create and test all of the maps on my PC. That does not mean I understand everything that Firaxis does nor does it mean I am the best player here that understands all Civ5's game mechanics. Unfortunately, I do not. :blush:

The speculation was done by downloading the save early and extracting from it the knowledge needed to create what you saw based upon earlier announcements. Speculation such as that causes confusion and I would appreciate it if it did not happen again.

OK Eric. I'll be sure to admit that I cheated then... my autosaves are every five, so I went three turns back. Oh well. I don't think I'm doing so hot this time anyway...

Aaronius
Dec 02, 2011, 12:36 PM
Well here I sit 100 turns from my last post. I now have a four city empire with my capital settled in place (2x gold, and gem); and cities to the south (ivory), western island (sugar), and northeast (triple gold). I’m considering a fifth city on the island to the NW, but it only has one more gold.

The worst AI in the game (Alex) just went hostile for no reason and told me my army was puny. I have two archers, two spears, one sword, and six triremes. Last turn I got the tech to build a knight or two, and just got the tech to upgrade to crossbows. After that my plan is to beeline for my Ship o’ Line unique upgrade. I don’t think my army is all that puny.

I’ve met every AI in the game. When I met Rome he was neutral so I made a lot of trades and free borders to make him friendly. He went friendly, I got open borders, then two turns later he went hostile (trying to win the game in a similar manner), then two turns later flipped back. Rami did something similar earlier. I’m wondering if Alex will do the same in a turn or two. These leaders are acting crazy...

I have six RAs complete and seven more signed right now. I got my first two wonders with HS and then used the GE to get PT. I lost out on four other wonders I went for. At least the PT will make my remaining RAs better, but the AIs are signing so many with each other I don’t think I’m getting ahead.

If this were any other game than GOTM I would just chill, defend, and try to win with science or diplo. Since the designated VC is domination I feel like I have to go to war now….

….but I have a very sinking feeling about how its going to go.:(

leif erikson
Dec 02, 2011, 02:15 PM
OK Eric. I'll be sure to admit that I cheated then... my autosaves are every five, so I went three turns back. Oh well. I don't think I'm doing so hot this time anyway...
Didn't say you cheated. There are times when there are legitimate reasons for reloading a save. I just gave you a mulligan. :)

The TSG Series is designed to help us identify issues and learn about Civ5. Everyone has learned a valuable lesson concerning scouting and keeping track on movement in order that one doesn't lose a valued unit. Surely you are not the only one this has happened to?

You should set your autosave interval to 1 though. That way you need not replay turns unnecessarily. Good Luck. :thumbsup:

shoshonte
Dec 02, 2011, 03:15 PM
- What were your initial priorities?
Rex fast, hook up iron/horses, conquer. Luckily Santa left me some iron down south which I picked up for my 3 city along with the ivory and fish. Dropped some reindeer near the capital too to build chariot archers too which was nice.
- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
Went Liberty to get the free settler/worker then went honor for the barbarian bonus and great general (that's all the Social policies I picked up so far) The settler and worker were for fast rexing and honor is pretty self evident.
- What tech path did you follow?
Pottery-Writing-Bronze Working- Sailing-Iron Working (free from Gl) AH-Trapping -Wheel-Archery-Mathematics
- Did you prioritize any Wonders?
Great Library for the science boost and free tech. I'll probably pick up the rest from the AI
- In this game, more City-States were added, how did this affect your strategy?
I've only found Geneva so it hasn't effected me much. I allied them for 8 turns just long enough to get some horse folk from them.
- How does the larger map size and Epic game speed affect your strategy
Honestly not sure if I can win this one but I'm going to try. Takes forever though. I guess that's a good thing on a large map.


Don't know why there are two spoiler tags. If a mod could fix it I'd be obliged.

leif edit - The vb code for bold needs to be inside the code for spoiler, you had the bold before the spoiler code.
btw, that cyan is a real eye test against the gray. :eek:

kingpapawawa
Dec 02, 2011, 08:03 PM
yeah, i should have built more longbows, but they only take 2 or 3 points of a city, and the city regenerates about 5 or so per turn, so even with 3 longbows, even if they arent having any other units you have to deal with, 3 longbows wouldn't suffice, it would take forever. I also have 2 Ships in the fight by now, doesn't help. Well, and that i'm at -11 happiness right now doesn't help either..

i love this situation. 3 longbows and 1 horseman plus a boat or two and i pound the city for 15 turns.

Tabarnak
Dec 03, 2011, 03:05 AM
Played until turn 130.

Went pottery-writting to start the GL as soon as possible. What a surprise when i saw a message saying that the GL has been built in a far away land at turn 50 :eek: I was still at 11 turns left. Wow...i never seen such thing at immortal. Probably a civ that stepped on a hut and got writting.

Anyway i continued and hard teched optics. I got 3 free techs with some ruins like wheel, calendar and mining(first ruin). Then i spammed some triremes to clear the land around to eventually spot iron tiles. I built another city from Liberty and built NC in my capital some turns after.

I discovered most civs around, selling stuff and gathering :c5gold:(not spent a single penny yet). When iron was discovered, i searched for iron around...but....damn...where? A 2 iron tile close to me? Ok...but elsewhere? Where, dammit? AHHH i see some...far far away close to Berlin. YES!

Alright so i throwed a settler and a worker immediately. I couldn't settle on it because Essen was close. I had to hurry to not let Harun settle another city and steal the place.

:king:
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa413/Tabarnak2/Screenshot-03_12_20114_26_31AM.jpg

With 8 iron, i can build a massive army of SotL, throw 2 armies in 2 directions and get Suleiman first. Why? Because he's sitting on even more iron! And he got a juicy cap. Research is slower than it was supposed to be because i lost the damn GL. I got extra :c5gold: at least.

Edit : Currently building HS in capital for PT later. I wonder if i will rush a university or hard build it. I think i will rush it to get a faster gs, since i missed the GL and got extra :c5gold:. Less :c5gold: for upgrades, but a faster gain of Suly's land.

trueblue
Dec 03, 2011, 05:18 AM
i was almost done with this game, thinking i had got off to a very poor start. A bit of confusion due to complete kills had me take more of sulla than i would have liked. however i am four capitals down and plugging on.


only 2 cities for me since happiness will probably be a problem at some point. taking a single capital is one thing but its prudent to take another city beside it, as germany is proving right now,a three(for example) city immortal AI can run over a single puppet. ok i annexed berlin but i dont want to take that hit very often.




got the GL and went straight for SOTL, getting the usual stuff on the way.

folks, the SOTL should be the only iron unit you ever build...

trueblue
Dec 03, 2011, 05:19 AM
oh aye. rememeber you can always sell or gift cities to an AI...

Tabarnak
Dec 03, 2011, 02:36 PM
Turn 200 :

A GS from Liberty and PT gave me navigation around turn 170. I got 8 trained SotL ready for 2 armies in action. A 6 iron tile was sitting close to Suly's capital. I throwed 2nd army to Egypt far away north west. I suspect that Rome may be close to them and they got great wonders to capture.

Got Egypt first. Then Suleiman after. His iron tile remained to his 2nd city :mad:....but not so bad finally because 2nd German city got 6 iron too. So i attacked him while i captured Rome's capital(easiest capture). They are en route for Tokyo now.

I'm presently holding German city to keep iron and i will get Berlin in a couple of turns. Then i will get Harun a bit later. I upgraded 5 remaining triremes that i throwed to Persia. They will clear north east side with Siam and Songhai.

France and Greece for the final assault. I keep France for later because his capital is the most difficult to access so i'm building some crossbowmen too for later.

I have 13 SotL and a couple of weak units. Everyone hates me. Excellent.

Tsaghen
Dec 03, 2011, 06:26 PM
I almost never played on archipelago so I'm gonna try a strat, hope it works out fine.

My objective is to win with a massive fleet of Ships of the Line and one Pikeman to capture the cities.

As all capitals will be coastal it seems likely that the AIs will try to build the sea wonders first. Since I don't remember ever seeing The Colossus built before The Great Lighthouse in other games I will start by it. If I succeed the AIs focus should switch to Colossus which I should grab too.

I settled on the Gold for the extra production and since I won't research The Wheel anytime soon I have no use settling on a 1 tile long river, better free the spot for a 2 food farm with Civil Service.

Tech : Pottery — Sailing — Mining (sold Gold right away to buy my first Trireme) — Bronze Working — Writing — Optics — Compass (free with GL) — Philosophy

My plan is working so far, got both sea wonders and since GL wasn't built by then I tried and just got it (turn 91).

I was planing on starting with Honor opener because my first two Warriors should be done exploring quickly and have nothing else to do until Optics than to bash barbarians. Add to that all the barbarian ships my Trireme will sink while exploring, it should be worthwhile.
Fate decided otherwise as my first Ruin gave me culture so I took Liberty opener for very early Worker from Citizenship. As there was no rush for land exploration I started with Monument so I had my second SP quickly. Later I took Tradition opener and Aristocracy as I was building only wonders so far.

With the early Worker I was able to Hook up the second Gold and the Gems (had to purchase the tile) pretty early, sold it all for more Triremes and 2 Work Boats. It payed out very well since I discovers 21 CSs so far —first for almost all— and missing only one AI —that's a lot of gold from selling Open Borders—.

WLtKD resource is Pearls which I don't expect to get anytime soon since only Alexander has access to them and he hasn't hooked any yet.

I'm gonna get Collective Rule in a few turns and probably settle on the 3 Gold spot. I have time to decide since NC won't be built for another 20 turns is so. That's the downside of my plan, didn't realize it until now.

Second ruin gave me an upgrade to Spearman. I just started to hunt ruins on other islands, got survivors as third.
Meanwhile my fleet is now 5 Trireme strong. I think I'll start recalling everyone soon and attack Sulleiman's second city with 6 so they get the range promotion before I head to his capital.

trueblue
Dec 03, 2011, 06:50 PM
I settled on the Gold for the extra production and since I won't research The Wheel anytime soon I have no use settling on a 1 tile long river, better free the spot for a 2 food farm with Civil Service.


i wish to discuss this move.

and i ask for your opinion?


i have no use settling a move away from a river so that i can better free the spot for a two food farm after i get CS.

personally id slap a granary down for the boost from the wheet and deer. and when i get the worker ill mine those hills. no?

VulturuL
Dec 04, 2011, 12:37 AM
If you will settle on the gold you will receive the gems later.

Tsaghen
Dec 04, 2011, 01:26 AM
By the time the Granary is built I have annexed the Deer tile so it ends up the same.

City on plains = 2 food + 1 hammer + 1 gold
Mined Gold = 3 hammer + 2 gold
Total = 2 food + 4 hammer + 3 gold

City on Gold = 2 food + 2 hammer + 2 gold
Farmed Gold (with CS) = 3 food + 1 hammer + 1 gold
Total = 5 food + 3 hammer + 3 gold

In the end I get 3 food for one hammer, it's a great deal ! Before CS it's 2 food, still a good deal. At the beginning of the game I benefit from an extra hammer and gold without screwing my growth. That looks powerful to me in a game where I will neither research The Wheel nor Economics.

As for the Gem I bought the tile for 150 just as my Worker had finished mining the Gold.

Little plus, when you move the Warrior on the Deer you see that there is nothing important to grab in the south of the third ring, leaving the NW unrevealed. Settling on the Gold give you access to that part in case there is something, which incidentally was the case ;)

ElWanderer
Dec 04, 2011, 03:33 PM
T147 and I'm trying to race to ships of the line. Except I probably won't be able to build any for lack of iron... I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't instead aim for longbowmen. I guess it should be less of an issue if/when I can conquer the Ottomans.

I'm going through the Liberty tree. I went worker-settler after the opener, which is the opposite order to that which I'd usually take. In this case, it worked as at the time my warriors had a serious barb infestation to clear out. I will complete the tree with my next pick.

I built the Great Library on turn 66. The Great Lighthouse fell a few turns earlier. Kinda wish I'd been able to get that one too.

The Ottomans offered me a research agreement, then declared war on me a few turns later. Thank goodness I had declined the RA and instead sold them luxuries. I've run over two of their settlers they foolishly embarked, along with two or three other units...

Tsaghen
Dec 04, 2011, 04:38 PM
Turn 165 update.

So I had regrouped my 8 Triremes and declared war on Sulleiman around turn 130. I trained them for a while on his second city because I will need range promotion for Istanbul later. Ended up having to take his third city also for more firing tiles on the capital. Meanwhile my whole fleet got +1 range and 4 had Indirect Fire.

Istanbul fel on turn 165 —wiping out the Ottomans— just as I completed PT and bulbed Navigation. Thus gaining access to a 6 Iron tile I got my first 6 SotL which are now headed towards Germany and their two 6 Iron tiles.

I got Oracle, Chichen Itza and HS —took GS to bulb Astronomy later— too meanwhile.
Since Chichen Itza I burned all my GP and GG for Golden Ages, got like 50 turns.
I didn't sign any RAs this game to save my gold for buying and upgrading Triremes.

trueblue
Dec 04, 2011, 04:58 PM
i cant believe how long this is taking.

and im getting the same graphical glitches as Tabarnak. those red squares happen in other games for me too. its never been bad and im too lazy to sort it out, there must be a setting somewhere.

Mazer Rackham
Dec 05, 2011, 12:46 PM
Turn 200 :

A GS from Liberty and PT gave me navigation around turn 170.


I'm at turn 161 and on pace to get Navigation at 169. I was able to get GL, and along with the PT GS points I will pop a scientist just a few turns after I finish Compass. I'm impressed with how quickly you were able to complete the map after getting your SoLs! I hope I am able to match your success.

Here's a quick recap on my progress up to turn 161:


I used the GL for Philosophy and went Liberty. Put the free settler on the Ivory down south before hitting optics. Purchased a library in the 2nd city and build the National College ASAP. Prioritized going Iron Working, then Sailing/Optics, Education, then Compass with the plan to bulb the two techs to get to SoLs.

I found a 6 Iron spot east of France. Nappy didn't like it when I plopped a city down there, but there won't be any friends in this game anyway. My plan is to take out Sully first to grab the 6 Iron plot near Istanbul and get 2 separate armies conquering the world. We've actually been at war for quite a long time, but he hasn't sent anything since I squished his initial assault.

trueblue
Dec 05, 2011, 03:04 PM
turn 380

i dont know how it came to this.

ive lost all direction. only a couple of capitals to go but its going to be a long slog till that happens.

fail.

Tabarnak
Dec 05, 2011, 03:12 PM
I'm at turn 161 and on pace to get Navigation at 169. I was able to get GL, and along with the PT GS points I will pop a scientist just a few turns after I finish Compass. I'm impressed with how quickly you were able to complete the map after getting your SoLs! I hope I am able to match your success.

Here's a quick recap on my progress up to turn 161:


I used the GL for Philosophy and went Liberty. Put the free settler on the Ivory down south before hitting optics. Purchased a library in the 2nd city and build the National College ASAP. Prioritized going Iron Working, then Sailing/Optics, Education, then Compass with the plan to bulb the two techs to get to SoLs.

I found a 6 Iron spot east of France. Nappy didn't like it when I plopped a city down there, but there won't be any friends in this game anyway. My plan is to take out Sully first to grab the 6 Iron plot near Istanbul and get 2 separate armies conquering the world. We've actually been at war for quite a long time, but he hasn't sent anything since I squished his initial assault.


I wanted that 6 iron tile from Suly as well but he cultured that tile from his 2nd city. I didn't want to lose time with that city. So i decided to get 2nd city of Germany instead with another 6 iron tile close. But he had too many units in his land and i couldn't hold that city very long. I retreived myself with -4 iron which is really bad. I'm a bit stupid because i should have allied a cs with a 6 iron tile when i found it but i just forgot i had enough :c5gold: to do that :lol:. Just build enough triremes before Navigation. With at least 12 iron, you have enough power to finish this game rapidly.

Zikkurat
Dec 06, 2011, 01:39 AM
Oh well, this one is not turning out good.

I had quite an OK start and managed to pop Philosophy with GL, also managed to build Oracle to fill up Honor as quickly as possible. Got lucky with my second city, which I put N of Istambul only to find the iron tile a bit later. Money always an issue I decided to settle on the NW island with the single gold, cause I got beaten by a few turns by Suleiman at the 3 gold island N. I ran a peaceful game up until Optics, completly forgetting about Bronze and Iron Working. :rolleyes:

Suleiman got cranky about my second city and as soon as I got Iron Working I started to build Swordsman. With 4 swords, 1 pike and 1 catapult Istanbul fell easily, without any losses on my end. They major mistake I did was, that I just had 2 triremes. Also they were just scouting the area, finding other AIs and CSs, but not really building up XPs.

My military campaign is awfully slow. Now I'm at turn 300 and I've just reached over to Germany, capturing their southernmost city on their continent. Although I have a decent fleet of 4 SotL and 2 caravels with Range 3 and Indirect Fire and 2 SotL gathering XPs its hard to siege Berlin. Otto is already in the industrial age and every single volley just does 1 point of damage.

I don't think that I'm in a position to win this as 3 AIs are already in industrial (Rome, Siam, Germans) and I'm technologically behind. Siam, for example, got frigattes some 40 turns before I had SotL. Currently I'm good friends with Siam, but I've no plan how to capture their capital later. At the pace I'm currently advancing I'll have to shoot killer robots with my SotLs :D

Notes for future replays: build triremens earlier, don't bother getting longswordman.

ElWanderer
Dec 06, 2011, 02:17 AM
T175 update:

Built Hagia Sofia, Notre Dame and the Porcelain Tower in quick succession. Reached the renaissance one turn after an unknown AI. Bulbed navigation in T172. I have captured six iron off the Ottomans but not yet taken Istanbul (not Constantinople). I have three ships of the line and three triremes. At 350 gold a pop, upgrades are not cheap.

Next up is to take Istanbul and find someone to sell the luxuries to, to fund upgrades. Not sure which social policy tree to open next. Honour, Piety and Commerce are all tempting.

Maxym
Dec 06, 2011, 06:17 PM
About to pop Navi and SoTL but have only 1 trireme with range and two most of the way there. Lost one highly experienced one to a lucky hit from Sullys tri that took 6hp in one go. He declared around 140t and run up his forces to my ivory city almost taking it (3hp left) despite my sacrifice of a scout to distract his archer. it worke or i would have lost it, dont need another one of those come from behind wins ;)

Since then I have been shooting at whatever is not under city radius protection but he has been hiding his units readying his second assault. He's in for a surptrise. I have no gold as I have spent it as usual on stuff that was not essential, except 6 iron CS ally. Now I need few of my lux deals to renew so I can get at least 1st naval task force on it's way.

Few of my boats are still scouting, but not getting much exp. as immortal AI seem to be hunting barbs down. I have had. A terrible start losing GL and GL to Darius as it turned out. He s 2nd on my list, was a weak target, I think trying to Occ but now he rocketed up the rankings. Not sure where to go next.

Built oracle, HS, and PT. Will try for ND but few civs are in renaissance already. So far so fun:cool::cool::cool:

Tsaghen
Dec 06, 2011, 08:09 PM
I went for Range & Indirect Fire but eventually realized Logistics —and Supply— later was much more powerful though a bit tougher to gain. After I finish I'll restart from an early save to try it.

QuizMan
Dec 07, 2011, 02:26 AM
A voyage of discovery in more ways than one. I am not getting much opportunity to play this lately, but aren't things slow? I have never played beyond standard and certainly not immortal. Standard, pangaea, king game is my usual choice.

Anyway, I am at turn 100 and have 2 cities up and running, one settled in place and the other on the hill to the east of ivory.

Early build order was:
monument, warrior, granary, settler, great lighthouse, library, workboat and the 3 triremes either built or bought. I assumed I would not get the great library, but at turn 100 it is still up for grabs

Research:
something like - pottery, mining, sailing, writing, optics, calendar (from ruin), bronze working, archery (ruin) and trapping. I have timed iron working to coincide with a settler from Liberty . That may be an error to leave it this late, but time will tell.

Social policies are a mixture of Liberty and honor.

I have 3 triremes out scouting and have met 6 AI's and 10 city states, so they have plenty of work to do yet, but they are picking off barbs for the experience along the way. One trireme is now on escort duty for my warrior that is picking up the ruins, 7 so far.

I have no great expectations from this game, just survival and the learning experience. I need to get to navigation pdq, but also need money so may have to side-track to currency too unless I get some puppets up sharpish - depends on how much iron I can find, I suppose. Wish me luck.

leif erikson
Dec 07, 2011, 06:09 AM
A voyage of discovery in more ways than one. I am not getting much opportunity to play this lately, but aren't things slow? I have never played beyond standard and certainly not immortal. Standard, pangaea, king game is my usual choice.
The game is set at Epic speed, so things do seem to take longer, especially when we are used to standard speed.

Maxym
Dec 07, 2011, 01:50 PM
I have finally got going with two naval groups operational. First one just started on Arabia after finishing Sully and taking over Berlin. It had to stay around Berlin a bit longer as Bismarck had his land carpeted in arch SM and UU and they all wanted a piece of Berlin. With 3 lux I decided to holn on to it , and after few more turns of losses he took even peace . Almost everyone has caravels now and when hidden in cities they are quite annoying.

Harun has his UU in abundance and archers everywhere so I am going slow keeping my Sotl out of range as 4 out of 5 in that group hAve range.
2nd fleet of 4 has just attacked Darius and sunk his only caravel I could see. Hope they can degrade his cap before he makes more. Rami stayed friendly so far and keeps buing my luxes which I turn into SotLs but at 980 a pop it takes some time. I am hoping to make a 3rd group to take on Alex and Nappy as they are not on the way. Still a long way to go, maybe 280 finish, not in contention but a good learning exp in my 2nd immortal game.

trueblue
Dec 07, 2011, 05:07 PM
i can see the end comming.

mess it up and it can take a long time to correct.

ElWanderer
Dec 08, 2011, 04:03 AM
T212 update:

Harun invited me to join me in a war on Germany. I was torn whether to declare straight away, or wait an agonisingly long 10 turns. In the end I chose the latter as my ships were scattered out, scouting. After I began to assemble my ships midway between our islands, Bismarck got suspicious and asked what my intentions were. In this case he was right to be worried, but I'm not sure how my few ships were enough to trigger the question. Perhaps because he'd just settled on the extreme northeast end of our island, he saw the sea in between as his territory. Anyway, it meant I was now at war without having ships out of position.

I've now captured Berlin and Hamburg, giving me access to 6 more iron. The Iron Chancellor is being a pain and will only offer straight peace. I need open borders, or else I'll have to conquer a crappy peninsula city off him or Harun, who should be my next target. He has built Himeji Castle. I'd also like a chunk of Bismarck's gold, but he doesn't know he is beaten.

I have seven ships of the line and a caravel. The latter has discovered that Egypt has a carpet of war chariots of doom... I should have taken a screenshot, it was that ridiculous.

I suspect my progress is too slow.

golem
Dec 08, 2011, 07:33 AM
Turn 175 -10 AD

I start on the place, went for Writing and GL. Finished it in turn 70 and went for Philosophy and Optics. Earn some money from trade and spent them for Libraries and Universities. Maybe the second city was a bad idea. After Optics I went for Iron. I allied one CS - Genoa. I did a lot of exploring with combination Trireme+Scout - received some good bonuses (usually gold and one knowledge).

Turn 169 I had Navigation (one GS for Astronomy, next Oxford). I had 2 Irons only - just for one SotL and one Swordsman, but I attacked Edirne with it and four Triremes. I was not sure where is that six irons, but I was lucky, it belonged to Edirne.

So now I have 8 irons, 3 SotLs, 2 Swordsmans and no money for other upgrade. But it is nice army and I will start with Suleiman. When I get rich I plan to built another army and go west.

Banman
Dec 08, 2011, 10:12 AM
@Aaronius: I saw a post recently in the Strategy forums that details how military strengths are calculated, and naval units count for next to nothing -- should explain most of the discrepancy.

I'm at turn 157 now, met Suleiman early and sold him gems early. Focused on getting GLib up, missed HG and Oracle but didn't focus on them very narrowly. After GLib (used to pop Sailing), switched London to food focus until it got to size 6 and delayed National College awhile to get some Triremes out and building up experience on barbarians. Have met several other powers and spread the gold around -- made friends with Germany, China and Egypt because they were friendly to begin with and friendly with each other, so far that's being a mutually reinforcing dynamic. Have refused other friendship proposals. Suleiman was never friendly, and recently attacked with warriors and archers (which I quickly wiped out with an archer and my triremes). Am now pushing to take Edirne and its iron supply before moving down to Istanbul. I've got a solid fleet of 5 or 6 triremes at this point, most of them with two promotions (accelerating now that they're shooting at Turkish cities). Initial warrior upgraded to spear on a ruin, have upgraded it to amphibious for city assaults from the water. Built an archer and a swordsman for land infantry so far, but have mostly focused on naval production.

Settled London in place --> build order Monument, Worker, GL, trireme. Bought a granary while GL was building. Waited to build any scouts until Optics was popped, so early production was spent on culture/growth/wonder priorities. Settled City # 2 at the isthmus NE of the ivory to allow pass-through, which is looking like a good call now since Istanbul is facing away from me and the coastlines are pretty winding on the north side. Bought library there almost immediately after founding. Have popped city #3 on the island to the west for the sugar and wheat, bought library there to keep NC construction rolling. After NC finished, started building HS (fingers crossed).

Am avoiding RAs for the moment --> I feel like I'd rather use the cash to build up infrastructure in my cities and keep them clicking along as quickly as possible. Plus, that leaves me more latitude with respect to foreign policy.

Overall, I'm happy with how the game has been going so far --> HG would have been nice, but London's big enough right now to get the important stuff done in a timely fashion and in the absence of boosted growth I've had enough excess happiness to allow #2 and #3 cities to grow quickly. Looking forward to the rest of the Ottoman campaign (Suleiman hasn't shown any sign of effective resistance and already offered an even peace before I even approached Edirne), then will reevaluate broader strategy re: other AIs when my iron supply is secure and I've grabbed Edirne and Istanbul.

to answer the OP questions:

initial priorities:
* take advantage of the starting location to get GLib and a large population up in London
* get initial luxuries sold to expedite London's development
* get a trireme fleet in the water and gaining experience ASAP

Social policies:
1) Tradition opener 2) Aristocracy 3) Liberty 4) Collective Rule 5) Republic (had 2 workers, one built and one bought, for 2 cities at that point) 6) free worker (for the third city)
chosen to boost London border expansion and expedite GLib construction as much as possible, then get a second city down to cut off Turkish approach and secure ivory and isthmus pass-through for future strategic purposes

Tech path:
1) Pottery, popped Animal Husbandry from a hut, 2) Writing, 3) Mining, 4) Sailing, popped Optics with GL, 5) Archery, 6) The Wheel, 7) Mathematics

Wonders prioritized:
GLib (got), HG (missed), Oracle (took a late attempt at it because I delayed Philosophy, missed it), HS (took my time getting to the tech, am building it now, fingers crossed)

So far, additional city states haven't affected much --> only encountered one early and didn't want to take out the barb encampments since they are good sources of experience for triremes

Maxym
Dec 08, 2011, 10:20 AM
What a difference 20 turns makes. I was cruising before now barely hanging on. In last ten turns everyone but Nappy and newly conquered Darius have Dowed me. I have pushed on capturing Wu and Askia caps. While fending off Rami - no more lux sales :( and his CS minions. I have blew 2500$ trying to defend Mecca but made a few mistakes and the entire area is covered in crossbows and camels so I don't think it will work out. I hope Nappy buys it and can hold on until I get to him. I have bribed Bismarck to attack Harun hoping it will keep those two off my back but they still Dowed me :(

I think 280 was overly optimistic. It would have helped if Rami did not break my last RA with 2 turns to go timed to pop when I expected to finish Askia. Timing was right, but I think Ai might be smart enough to break them if they decide to Dow you soon anyway.

danglading
Dec 08, 2011, 07:23 PM
Settled my 3rd city on the sugar/wheat island to the west. Got the GL on turn 98 and used it on Optics. Got 3 triremes in the water and sent them exploring/leveling. My only other combat units were my original warrior (goodie hut upgrade to spear) and my scout. Suleiman declared war on me in the early 100's, probably because of the above mentioned paltry defense. I managed to get my navy back home and buy a horse & archer in time to kill off his initial wave & save my 2nd (ivory) city. After that I pushed on Erdine, which settled to get the marble & 6-iron. After a protracted naval & archer bombardment, Erdine fell & I took a handsome peace to regroup.

After getting longbowmen I declared on Suleiman again. This time my targets were his city up on the triple gold, followed by Istanbul. It turns out I over-reached a bit, since I hadn't actually upgraded my army any. All I left in Erdine was a solo longbow, and that wasn't enough to fend off his insta-army while I was slowly bombarding Ankara. I abandoned the Ankara campaign and pulled out of Erdine just in time to not lose my archer & GG. As soon as my main force made it back I retook Erdine and dug in. A couple more triremes went in the water and another longbow joined my army, and I set off for Ankara a second time. By this time I had range promotions on all my assaulting triremes, so they were able to pummel Ankara from a safe distance while I protected my interest in Erdine. After Ankara fell, I moved on Istanbul directly. 3 range promoted triremes and 2 longbows handed it to me after another protracted bombardment.

At that point I took peace from Sulie again and settled down to await Navigation (currently 14 turns away). While passing turns and trying to plan my next target, Darius plopped a city down next to Ankara, stealing the 3rd gold since Ankara hadn't expanded over it yet (love the AI's border expansion algorithm...). So that answered that question. Persia it is! As soon as navigation hits I'll DoW Persia, then go from there.

In a first (for me), Darius' attitude towards me is "Afraid". I've never seen such a thing. He's come calling twice just to tell me how terrified of me he is, similar to the way the AI randomly shows up to insult you, but he's basically telling me that I make him cry like a little girl. Not sure what that's all about, but it cracks me up! :lol:

Once again seems slow, but I'm hopeful I'll build up momentum once I get SoL's in the water and be able to end this quicker than expected. Crossing fingers.

Tabarnak
Dec 08, 2011, 07:55 PM
In a first (for me), Darius' attitude towards me is "Afraid". I've never seen such a thing. He's come calling twice just to tell me how terrified of me he is, similar to the way the AI randomly shows up to insult you, but he's basically telling me that I make him cry like a little girl. Not sure what that's all about, but it cracks me up! :lol:

Try to demand things for free. Like a luxury or gold for nothing in return. It can work sometimes.

Tsaghen
Dec 09, 2011, 04:41 AM
@ ElWanderer
Bombard German units, should be easy and good experience for your SotL. Once you have cleared a bunch he should be much more generous with the peace offer.
In my first game he was asking for my gold at first. Once I had eradicated most of his units he offered me everything plus 3 cities.

@ golem
Too bad you spent an Iron on a Swordsman. I suggest you reduce city hit points through sea bombardment and capture it with an embarked unit. Once the city is down to 1 hp any land unit can capture it without dying. There should be no need for Swordsman, save Iron for SotL.

ElWanderer
Dec 09, 2011, 05:40 AM
@ ElWanderer
Bombard German units, should be easy and good experience for your SotL. Once you have cleared a bunch he should be much more generous with the peace offer.
In my first game he was asking for my gold at first. Once I had eradicated most of his units he offered me everything plus 3 cities.


Funny enough, I did that with Arabia this morning, though not so deliberately. I captured Mecca but Harun had a massive carpet of doom. After three turns of blasting away, I'd cleared the vicinity and he offered 600 gold plus 5gpt for peace. No cities on offer, though. What was annoying was that I had assumed I would capture Himeji Castle, but I haven't. He must have built it elsewhere.

T230: 12 ships of the line, two longswordsmen (yes, they seem a waste of iron now), three longbowmen and time to visit Siam. Half the world has denounced me; lots of the AIs have declarations of friendship with those I've conquered. Splitters.

Mazer Rackham
Dec 09, 2011, 04:07 PM
Too bad you spent an Iron on a Swordsman. I suggest you reduce city hit points through sea bombardment and capture it with an embarked unit. Once the city is down to 1 hp any land unit can capture it without dying. There should be no need for Swordsman, save Iron for SotL.

I had no idea that this was how it worked. I lost one of my Pikeman because I thought I had to land him (odds said I'd take 10 damage in going against a city). I had 2 attack army's going and this slowed down one of them until I could get another unit built to send over there. I had also taken the water upgrade as soon as possible with my other Pike so I wouldn't get in that situation.

I'm somewhere around turn 220 with about 4 civs out of the way, fighting wars against 2 others. A few of my remaining targets haven't hit the Renaissance yet, but I still have to take out Rammy and he's got Frigates. I have about 12 SotL's and the first just got Logistics which will help speed things up.

QuizMan
Dec 10, 2011, 01:45 AM
A promising start has proved a false dawn. I am at turn 250 and I seem to be way behind. I made 3 major errors. Firstly, I should have prioritised iron working earlier. By the time I got it most of the good spots had gone and did not have a strong enough army to fight for ones already taken. Secondly, I should have started signing RA's much earlier because I have only recently got to navigation and got some SoL's out there. Thirdly, I need to be more aggressive in the early stages - that's just not my style of play because I am more comfortable with science or culture victories.

If I finish this before turn 450 I shall be amazed.

ElWanderer
Dec 10, 2011, 04:08 AM
Secondly, I should have started signing RA's much earlier because I have only recently got to navigation and got some SoL's out there.

Generally I'd agree with you - in the last immortal domination TSG, it was a succession of research agreements that kept me marginally ahead tech-wise for most of the game (and therefore able to stomp the AI with better units). However, in this game I got navigation on T172 without any research agreements. I got there by avoiding the bottom half of the research except for iron working (I didn't have roads for ages!) and bulbing Astronomy and Navigation with great scientists from the Great Library and Porcelain Tower (I also got a university up for specialists, but that was late on and only shaved a turn or two off). On easier difficulty levels, I like to build both the Great Library and the Oracle, for getting a great scientist out faster, but that wasn't an option here.

Thirdly, I need to be more aggressive in the early stages - that's just not my style of play because I am more comfortable with science or culture victories.

Me too, I'm quite happy to smite whoever attacks me, but early aggression isn't usually my style.


T262 update: I lost a unit :(

My highly promoted longswordsman got run over by a caravel belonging to a City State allied to Rome - I've still no idea where it came from. Fortunately, I had another or that could have been an embarrassing end to the invasion! I dread to think what my kill ratio is; it's been like whack-a-mole at times.

Both Siam and Songhai's capitals fell fairly easily and they're giving me gpt for peace. I have just captured Rome (which at combat strength 55, was only taking one damage from each shot) but not killed enough Romans to get a peace deal yet. Caesar was top of the scoreboard and slightly ahead of me in tech (he has cannons, cavalry and frigates). Helpfully, he had built the Great Lighthouse and Forbidden Palace in Rome, so those are now mine.

Next up will probably be Egypt (who still have a mad carpet of war chariots), then China or Greece. I have research agreements with Japan, France and Persia, so I'm leaving those until last. That must be six capitals down, six to go. At the rate of a capture every 10 turns or so, I guess that's a rough predicted finish time of T325.

Possible spoilers regarding bits of the map around Siam and France:

Heh, didn't expect to see El Dorado. Was tempted to wrest it off Siam, but he made me a peace offer I felt I ought to accept so I could move on to the next civ.
Hmmm, Paris seems to be located in a more awkward spot to get to than the other capitals. May have to capture a city to the north of it, then emplace artillery to beef up the bombardment.
Questions on weirdness:
When I gave one of my ships of the line the Supply [heal 2HP outside friendly territory] promotion, it gained an extra movement point. That doesn't seem to be listed as an effect... is this expected?
Halfway through my play session last night (I think the game was running for about five hours, though I didn't play solidly), my ships lost the ability to run-over embarked units. Instead they were able to one-shot them with bombardments. A few turns later, they were back to normal. Has anyone else had that happen?

Tsaghen
Dec 10, 2011, 04:51 AM
Glad I was helpful Mazer ;)


@ Quizman

That's a way of looking at things, he's another one.

It seems to me that you are analyzing the game as if it was a long land game. Sea conquest victory is quite different.

Considering that the game is supposed to end with Navigation there is barely time to make it profitable. Since Iron isn't needed before Navigation the best course of action is grab it only a few turns before you get the tech, thus the challenge is to be ready for it. I see three possible ways the Iron can present itself :
It hasn't been claimed yet so you just have to drop a city on it. That will cost you a Settler. Can't consider building it as you should be busy working on PT or Oxford thus every turn spent on the Settler delays your win. So it's either through SP or rushing which is that much money not available to buy/upgrade Triremes.
With 25 CS you can bet at least has access to Iron. If you have built The Great Lighthouse and maybe The Colossus you should have a Great Merchant available, use it on a CS with Iron. It will reward you with 600 gold and some influence, add 500 gold or less and you're allied. Cheap and easy.
Another civ controls an Iron spot. Since it's a domination game you should already be ready to conquer cities, just start with the easiest accessible Iron city. That would be Sulleiman just next door. If you don't already have a Trireme fleet capable of taking a city, you should at least be able to do it with 2 SotL using Iron from a CS to get you started.

So as I see it, your mistake could be that you did not focus enough on you army ; not enough troops, not enough training or maybe both.
As for RAs, they are very expensive in early game compared to your average income and before PT or Rationalism they only provide half tech. I believe your gold would me better used buying Triremes which would contribute to solve your army problem.

Don't take anything for granted, re-evaluate usual decisions (like Great Library is the most important early wonder for example) with this game's specific parameters. Mainly they are :
- conquest ; take capitals, sell them and move to the next ; setup a second and third army as soon as possible
- sea map ; ships are the key, ground forces are useless (just one unit per army to capture cities)
- epic game speed ; you have 50 % more turns to train units, consider taking actual promotions instead of instant heals.
- game should end with Navigation, set up research accordingly ; if you get GL, use it for Compass ; plan to bulb Astronomy and Navigation (use Oxford ! you won't be needing it later) ; no use for Iron Working before Navigation so you can research it just after education.

I hope that helps. I wasn't a fan of sea maps before this game but it had me thinking and once I have figured all the above perks I felt much more comfortable and ended up really enjoying it.


@ ElWanderer

If you have Logistics on your ships you only need one access route and thus can go straight for Paris ;)
Same thing with Supply, discovered it also gave +1 move.
Now that you mention it, I remember also having the one shot embark bombardment thing. Happened once, a few turns later when I wanted to run over an embarked unit again it work as usual.

Maxym
Dec 10, 2011, 08:12 AM
Were they by any chance Songhai units? They have ability to defend at sea so you end up shooting at them instead of running them over.

ElWanderer
Dec 10, 2011, 11:13 AM
Were they by any chance Songhai units? They have ability to defend at sea so you end up shooting at them instead of running them over.

Ah, yes, that would explain it.

Tsaghen
Dec 10, 2011, 01:01 PM
Could be yes. Thanks ;)

QuizMan
Dec 11, 2011, 03:32 AM
Tsaghen - many thanks for the analysis. That's given plenty of food for thought for future games.

golem
Dec 11, 2011, 05:44 AM
1200 Ad - When I have SotLs 100 BC I thought it will be piece of cake. It was not. After several turns I managed to upgrade six triremes to SotLs, but next I found out they are not well trained. To capture Otomans and Germany took a long time.

After signing peace treaty with Germans I received so much cities, that my unhappinnes was 35:mad:. My personal best. :lol:

Next I conquered Arabia, Egypt, Japan and Thailand. Egypt with GW was nigntmare for me, I lost too much units trying to get close to Thebes. And the worst was waiting for another unit to come - lot of turns lost.

Five Civs still alive. Askia will be easy, but Rome and French looks pretty powerfull. Now I have six Sotls with Logistic, so we will see.

golem
Dec 11, 2011, 03:06 PM
1420 AD - Still fighting. This session I conquered Shanghai, Peking and Persia without troubles - but then all started hate me and declared the war. I am fighting everywhere, had to purchase several cities. One big mistake was to sell Kyoto to Otomans. After some time Japanese took it back.

Rome took horrible time, in any case Rome and France are better than me in science. Five SotLs bombared Rome for five turns. Horrible defence. Finally I conquered it, but have to sell it immediately to France. (Napoleon is my only friend.) Japan should be out in five turns, next will be duel between me and Napoleon. When I see his cannons and riflemans, I am not sure if I manage. I am completely out of money, selling buildings to survive. Bitter way to glory, is not it?

golem
Dec 11, 2011, 03:12 PM
My highly promoted longswordsman got run over by a caravel belonging to a City State allied to Rome - I've still no idea where it came from. Fortunately, I had another or that could have been an embarrassing end to the invasion! I dread to think what my kill ratio is; it's been like whack-a-mole at times.
[/LIST]

If I write about every my unit that was run over, it would be pretty long list. I am transporting them in the middle of five SotLs now. :) The CSs caravels are everywhere - and all CS but two are at war with me.

Ribannah
Dec 12, 2011, 10:08 AM
It is turn 62 and we have just fnished the Great Lighthouse. As expected at this level, the Great Library is long gone to the AI (turn 49, far away... well, everything is).

Nonetheless I'm quite happy with our start. London was founded on the northwest Gold, for early hammers and coins as well as optimal sea access. We have two additional cities, York at the Marble under Suleiman's nose and Nottingham at the Ivory, both on a hill as well. We don't want the Ottomans to grow big on OUR island, I mean continent. :mischief:

Our Warrior ran counter-clockwise at top speed and managed to find Genoa first, blocking an Ottoman Scout. :p

Two Triremes were bought and ordered to discover The World. They are now exploring and killing barbarian Galleys. Already we found four rivals and a bunch of city states, all thanks to b-lining Sailing over Writing. ;)

Trapping is due in 1, Optics will follow. No need for Philosophy yet, as it will be a while before we can build the National College, and there will be insufficient funds for Research Agreements in this game, and not enough time for The Oracle. :scan:

Then, Masonry (York should have a Worker at that time), followed by the long, long stretch to Education!

Cities
1 London (2 Gold, Gems, Horses)
47 York (Marble)
56 Nottingham (Ivory)

Policies
30 Liberty
38 Collective Rule
60 Citizenship

Technology
8 Animal Husbandry (ruins) :)
16 Pottery
32 Sailing
41 Mining
53 Writing

London
17 Worker
27 Granary
34 Monument
38 Settler (policy), Trireme 350g
50 Settler
51 Trireme 350g
60 Worker (policy)
62 THE GREAT LIGHTHOUSE :goodjob:

York
62 Monument

Nottingham

Tabarnak
Dec 12, 2011, 10:27 AM
As expected at this level, the Great Library is long gone to the AI (turn 49, far away... well, everything is)

The GL was built at turn 50 in my game. Immortal...but epic speed! That's 32-33 turns at standard speed. It's pretty quick in fact.

Some guys built the GL around turn 80-90 without problems.

Ribannah
Dec 12, 2011, 10:37 AM
It's just NOT FAIR. :mad:

Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through about the first 80 to 100 turns.

- What were your initial priorities?
- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
- What tech path did you follow?
- Did you prioritize any Wonders?
- In this game, more City-States were added, how did this affect your strategy?
- How does the larger map size and Epic game speed affect your strategy

Priorities: Sailing ;)
Social policies: Liberty tree to get that free Great Scientist; later we'll go Commerce for faster sailing.
Tech path: Sailing!
Wonders: Faster sailing with Great Lighthouse. :)
City States: Set sail to find them. :crazyeye:
Large map: Need for faster sailing...
Epic speed: More turns to sail... :lol:

DaveMcW
Dec 12, 2011, 12:15 PM
Wow, I built the Great Library around turn 70.

Didn't realize how lucky I was. :D

golem
Dec 13, 2011, 06:57 AM
I have strange experience and do not know what happened. I wanted to go thorough narrow channel between Tyre and Stockholm with my SotLs. Movement eight was reduce to two in the channel and all ships stoped. Does anybody know why? Is it some bug?

I decided to look closer and for test conquered Stockholm - see nothing, but now the ships can go normally.

P.S. The similar thing is on the approach to Paris for embarked units (only on water) - maybe I missing something:cry:

danglading
Dec 13, 2011, 07:43 AM
I have strange experience and do not know what happened. I wanted to go thorough narrow channel between Tyre and Stockholm with my SotLs. Movement eight was reduce to two in the channel and all ships stoped. Does anybody know why? Is it some bug?

I decided to look closer and for test conquered Stockholm - see nothing, but now the ships can go normally.

P.S. The similar thing is on the approach to Paris for embarked units (only on water) - maybe I missing something:cry:

Were you at war with either of those CS's? If so, their zone of control might have stopped you from moving past in one turn.

golem
Dec 13, 2011, 07:49 AM
Were you at war with either of those CS's? If so, their zone of control might have stopped you from moving past in one turn.

Yes I was. But I did not notice this anywhere else.

danglading
Dec 13, 2011, 07:53 AM
Yes I was. But I did not notice this anywhere else.

Typically your SotL's have enough movement to "go around" units/cities that you are at war with. If you were pinched between two land masses (I don't remember the geometry here), there might not have been anywhere to "go around", so you would be stopped for that turn. If you look at the proposed path when you're plotting your movement, sometimes you'll see the proposed path jump to the side of a hostile unit/city (i.e., go around) before continuing to your chosen destination. The animation does not show this, just the proposed path.

I faced a similar problem while fighting the Ottomans in the narrow channel to the south of Istanbul.

Tsaghen
Dec 13, 2011, 07:58 AM
Embarked units are affected by land units zone of control.

golem
Dec 13, 2011, 08:17 AM
Embarked units are affected by land units zone of control.

Thanks, that is clear now. But why ships sometimes? Is there any rule for them?

Ribannah
Dec 13, 2011, 10:54 AM
Non-RA game, no shortcuts

It is turn 122 and we are making great progress in the science department. We finished Civil Service, bulbed Education with a Great Scientist from the Liberty tree, bought a University. London employed two scientists and has begun on the Hagia Sophia. We have sacrificed our two Great Generals for a Golden Age of 18 turns. :)

The mid-game was quite eventful. The Ottomans declared and tried to take undefended York. We bought a Trireme and a Warrior (our second melee unit!), and after four of their Warriors were taken out they resigned, gifting us Sugar and 270g to compensate. A good deal! :p

We are not quite ready to attack the AI just yet, but are building our fleet. Our Triremes - we have eight now - are target-practicing on Sydney, and are getting closer to aquiring the highly valued logistics promotion. :mischief:

We have no knowledge of Iron Working yet, but will research it in the next two turns. One AI remains missing, apparently without a coastal connection, as well as two City States. :scan:


Turns 63-122

Cities
83 Hastings (2 Gold)

Allies
83 Geneva (cultural, Whales)
97 Genoa (food, Cotton)

Policies
80 Representation
98 Republic
116 Meritocracy (liberty tree complete)

Technology
63 Trapping
76 Optics
86 Philosophy
91 Masonry
95 Calendar
111 Bronze Working (ruins)
112 Theology
122 Civil Service, Education (GS) :king:

London
65 Trireme 350g
74 Library, Worker 420g
81 Settler
83 Workboat
87 Workboat
92 Trireme
93 Great General#1
111 NATIONAL COLLEGE
116 Barracks, Great Scientist (tree)
119 Great General#2
121 Circus
122 University 890g

York
71 Trireme 350g
72 Warrior 270g
78 Worker 420g
89 Library
108 Lighthouse
121 Trireme

Nottingham
71 Monument
92 Library
111 Lighthouse

Hastings
83 Library 550g
98 Monument
99 Trireme 350g
109 Lighthouse
121 Trireme

Onan
Dec 14, 2011, 03:18 AM
A 2 iron tile close to me? Ok...but elsewhere? Where, dammit? AHHH i see some...far far away close to Berlin. YES!

Alright so i throwed a settler and a worker immediately. I couldn't settle on it because Essen was close.

Hmn, I thought you needed 3 tiles between, EXCEPT when cities have no land between them / have water between them. No? Would the iron have been a possible site to settle, or is this another case where the game mechanics perform differently from the manual?

Looks like another nice game, Tab. My game I will not likely return to.... an unfortunate barb camp delayed my first two settlers getting where they needed to...lost 3 scouts to barbs after optics, with little reward (one worker)...managed to starve London the turn after a settler was built (seems a bit of an exploit to be building a settler with -4 food per turn...so I guess I deserved it). I don't have the patience for epic with a start like that.

Tabarnak
Dec 14, 2011, 03:10 PM
Hmn, I thought you needed 3 tiles between, EXCEPT when cities have no land between them / have water between them. No? Would the iron have been a possible site to settle, or is this another case where the game mechanics perform differently from the manual?

Hmm no i think you are right. I just didn't remember about this fact. If i had knew it...o well almost every aspects where sub-optimal in anyway :cry:

nthexwn
Dec 14, 2011, 07:56 PM
Played around 100 turns so far, but had approximately 20 crashes due to a weird glitch with my new GTX570 video card. Finally got the game stable again, but I think I'll skip out on this one, due to the huge number of replayed turns. Regardless, this is a great scenario, and plays quite uniquely compared to the previous TSGs! Never had so much fun with naval battles before. :)

Monthar
Dec 15, 2011, 12:16 AM
I'm up to turn 407 now and not much closer to winning this one than I was 100 turns ago. I've already looked in the after action thread to see how fast some folks have beat it. After seeing that some folks have beat it well under 200 turns, I think I'm gonna just give up now.

Zikkurat
Dec 15, 2011, 03:56 AM
I'm up to turn 407 now and not much closer to winning this one than I was 100 turns ago. I've already looked in the after action thread to see how fast some folks have beat it. After seeing that some folks have beat it well under 200 turns, I think I'm gonna just give up now.

Same here, but just for the 'giving up' part ;) I'm close to turn 400 and just captured Beijing with my fleet of 7 SotLs and 2 caravels. 8 caps still to go, including all of the big ones like Rome, Paris and Bangkok. Technologically I'm way behind the leaders, still some 40 turns away from the SotL upgrade and already saw a massive fleet of destroyers and carriers from Siam.

So, in short, if I continue playing I will just add a couple of hours of playtime to see my utter failure :rolleyes:

But its OK, it was my first game on Immortal and I learned a lot. I'll go back to some earlier saves or even start over and see if I can improve my research to get to SotL quicker and rule the oceans, but for this TSG I'm out.

QuizMan
Dec 15, 2011, 03:19 PM
Turn 350 and I am not sure how much further I can bothered to take this.

I am still a long way off winning and it is getting harder as each AI accelerates through the tech tree. Only Napoleon loves me and all the rest have declared war. 5 capitals captured so far with Caesar & Darius well under way. I have 14 SoTL's out there mostly with logistics and range (and I need that with artillery now being seen), but frankly, it is now getting boring especially the wait between turns even with quick combat enabled and regular switching to strategic view before clicking next turn.

trueblue
Dec 15, 2011, 06:48 PM
You guys are making me glad i stuck at it :)

Monthar
Dec 16, 2011, 12:12 AM
At the point where I gave up I still has SotLs, some rifles and some infantry. Yet Darius has mech-infantry, cruisers, arty and lot of each. Most of the AIs had infantry, arty and I think a couple also had cruisers. My biggest problem is I tend to get into building buildings instead of units, so I didn't have enough to take folks out before they became a problem.

I've been trying to get better at warmongering while playing the Romans to complete the achievement of capturing the city that built the statue of Zeus. in my current game of that at emperor I'm in the top slot and based on the 4 city swords rush. I took out Japan, but got bottle-necked trying to take China and Persia. So even this practice game isn't doing as well as I need to do. However, I did severely limit the number of buildings I build and that's made a lot of difference in my income. I can actually afford to buy buildings, units or CS alliances a lot easier than I normally do. All while maintaining the #1 slot in military. including upgrading several Legions to LS as soon as I got the tech. So hopefully I'll be better prepared for the next Emperor-Deity level game and the next Domination game.

QuizMan
Dec 16, 2011, 03:14 AM
trueblue, you have my admiration for seeing it through to the end. How did you alleviate the end of turn boredom? I lost count of the times I ended the turn and went to make a cup of tea. Caffeine levels shot up, but at least I stayed awake.

ElWanderer
Dec 18, 2011, 05:54 AM
The brave Siamese and Arabs have risen up and thrown off the yoke of their oppressor! Unfortunately that oppressor was me.

I'm in the middle of conquering Egypt (easily - they're quite poor), but four civs have declared war on me: Siam, Arabia, China and the Ottomans. The latter shouldn't be able to recapture their capital, but it's an annoying sideshow. Siam recaptured their capital after an epic fight - I thought I'd done enough to hold it, but an insta-healed knight carried the day. I should be able to recapture it if I can keep bombarding it and get a land unit over. Meanwhile, Mecca was a total loss; German intransigence meant I couldn't get any ships into range of the place to bombard the attackers. It will be a pain to recapture, and I may have to fight Germany again.

Because of the no-razing rule, the ridiculous happiness mechanism, a desire to go as quickly as possible and a personal feeling that selling the captured capitals to other civs was a bit cheap, I've not been able to secure what I've captured.

I should still win this, but it's going to be a long, long slog, and I'm not sure if I have the time, what with going away for Christmas.

Half Nelson
Dec 21, 2011, 02:24 PM
Made a start on this game, but might not get any further before the due date because of seasonal distractions. Settled in place, built monument-granary-GL-scout-trireme. Took the Liberty track (worker before settler), settled second city South for ivory. Beelined for Optics, sending 2 scouts / 2 triremes to seek out new lands. Made early trades (gold, gems) with Ottomans and built settler for third city on the lovely 3-gold / river-hills spot to North. Spotting an Ottoman settler / warrior heading in the same direction, I made a snap DoW to secure the spot. The war has continued unabated since then. I popped BW from a hut, speeding up discovery of IW before a push to Education and on to Navigation. My solution to the iron problem seems to differ from most posts, as you can see from the screenshot. The battle of Hastings has brought me lots of XP and 2 GG so far. My army consists of 1 pike, 3 archers (including a scout upgrade) and 6 triremes (with 2 more soon on the stocks in barracks cities). Built HS in London and used 2xGE for PT (London) and ND (Nottingham). Compass is due in 8 turns and I will have 2xGS ready for Navigation. Have met all AI. So far so good, but warmongering is not my forte:- who to attack first; how many armies etc???? Plan A is to take Istanbul, then send the SotL strikeforce to take down standing armies whilst I build up a second invasion force to capture capitals. Greece and Rome look to be early targets. I am friendly with Germany, China and Persia and have a couple of RA in place. My research focus will be Currency then up to Machinery, before a long beeline towards Combustion. Having completed Liberty, I am toying with a run through the full Honour tree, although a dip into Tradition (for Oligarchy) is tempting if I leave a LB in each capital for defence. Money and Happiness are OK for now, but culture is weak.

da_Vinci
Dec 23, 2011, 12:39 PM
Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through about the first 80 to 100 turns.

That will be easy, as I have started keeping notes as I play. Here are the first 100:

TSG 25 Notes

Settled in Place, monument first, then worker.

Got a pop from a ruin.

Took Tradition policy first.

Found Suleiman.

T 27 (3325 BC): First Liberty policy.

T 35 (3125 BC): Farm built. Calendar done. Mining.

T 39 (3025 BC): Granary done. Stonehenge.

T 40 (3000 BC): Aristocracy policy.

T 46 (2850 BC): Mining done, AH.

T 57 (2575 BC): AH done, Wheel.

T 62 (2450 BC): Collective Rule policy.

T 63 (2425 BC): London is size 4.

T 66 (2350 BC): Stonehenge in London. Scout.

T 69 (2275 BC): Settled York SSE for Ivory.

T 71 (2225 BC): Wheel done, Writing. Scout in London, Watermill.

T 75 (2125 BC): London is size 5.

T 82 (1950 BC): Writing done. Sailing. Scout done in London, Great Library. Buy granary in York.

T 83 (1925 BC): Hanging Gardens far away (Great Lighthouse went earlier).

T 84 (1900 BC): Colossus far away. Citizenship policy.

T 85 (1875 BC): York is size 2.

T 92 (1700 BC): Sailing done, now trapping.

T 96 (1600 BC): Great Library in London. Take philosophy. Oracle next.
T 99 (1525 BC): York is size 3.

T 100 (1500 BC): Trapping done. Now Optics.
This was the first serious SP game I have played since back when tech blocking was an issue. In fact, I decided to take a Civ V break until that got sorted out, then RL made the break longer than initially intended.

- What were your initial priorities?

Found 3 to 4 cities, ideally timed to reduce policy cost damage and to get Nat Col early. Get 'Henge and if possible, some other early wonders.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?

Tradition and Liberty look really attractive early now, so went for those. Tradition first, then LIberty T27, Aristocracy T40, Collective Rule T62, Citizenship T84, Representation T 110.

- What tech path did you follow?

Took a monument first strategy to fuel policy acquisition. Worker second as wonder building needs hammers. The wet map meant barbs would not be an early problem, so troops could wait. So the direct line to henge (pottery, calendar). Then mining for some hammers. Then AH, Wheel, Writing, Sailing, Trapping, Optics.

- Did you prioritize any Wonders? Managed to get Henge T66, Great Lib T 96, and later Oracle T 113, all in London.

- In this game, more City-States were added, how did this affect your strategy? Not any different at the start, still need a solid tech and production base regardless. It may affect the winability, though, see after action report.

- How does the larger map size and Epic game speed affect your strategy Again, not at the start. But may affect winability ... see after action report.

The other newsworthy early event was settling York SSE for the ivory.

I liked my start, but as usual on this kind of map, who might be getting unstoppable in some hidden, far away part of the map? :(

dV