Civilization Fanatics' Forums > CIVILIZATION IV > Civ4 - Colonization > Civ4Col - Creation & Customization > Civ4Col - Project & Mod Development > Religion and Revolution > [Religion and Revolution]: New Calculation for Cargo (Ships and City Storage) PDA KJ JanssonJan 02, 2012, 03:09 AMSure, go ahead. :) The main problem for all transport units is exactly "if Cargo-Slot available". Now each cargo slot can have only ONE type of goods. Thus, now a ship has NO Cargo-Slot available, even if the ship transports only 1 unit of food in Slot 1 and 1 unit of wood in Slot 2. Such practically empty ship cannot load nothing at all because it has no Cargo-Slot available. Now I'm looking the possibility to bypass this problem. To my opinion, the optimal solution would be if each good (Food, Wood, etc.) will have a "weight" parameter. For instance: 1 unit of Food = 1 kg, 1 unit of Wood = 10 kg, 10 units of Cotton = 1 kg, etc. All numbers in this post are absolutely symbolic. Each "Slot for goods" (or "Hold" (Eng), "Schiffsraum" (De), "Cale" (Fr)") on the transport unit should be measured also in "Weight". Thus, if 1 slot on galleon is equal 100 kg (or tonns), than we could load in this slot only 100 kg/tonns any goods in summary. For units (Colonist, etc.) could be special cabins on each ship. Caravel -2 cabins, Galleon - 6 cabins, for instance. Thus, the changes will be related only for goods transpotation. This is one of possible solutions I'm thinking now. raystuttgartJan 02, 2012, 03:14 AMThis is one of possible solutions I'm thinking now. I have once been thinking about something similar. (I even had a technical concept.) But it is extremely difficult to implement. (Not only DLL but also the part for Python / User-Interface.) Also it would confuse many players. Currently my tendency: Better not do something like that. :( Robert SurcoufJan 02, 2012, 03:34 AMSorry if I'm slightly off topic, but M07 implemented something like that in Dawn of a New Era. Have you already checked DoNE, KJ ? Androrc the OrcJan 02, 2012, 08:23 AMSorry if I'm slightly off topic, but M07 implemented something like that in Dawn of a New Era. Have you already checked DoNE, KJ ? As far as I know, sources for DoaNE were never released. raystuttgartJan 02, 2012, 08:32 AMAs far as I know, sources for DoaNE were never released. That is my knowledge, too. Robert SurcoufJan 02, 2012, 09:04 AMAs far as I know, sources for DoaNE were never released. Yes indeed. I guess M07 doesn't want do publish them. Don't ask me why? :dunno: Do you want me to ask him about these codes? raystuttgartJan 02, 2012, 09:08 AMYes indeed. I guess M07 doesn't want do publish them. Don't ask me why? :dunno: Do you want me to ask him about these codes? I guess, we might clarify first in our Mod-Development-Thread or in another new Thread if we want this feature or not. :) KJ JanssonJan 02, 2012, 09:36 AMSorry if I'm slightly off topic, but M07 implemented something like that in Dawn of a New Era. Have you already checked DoNE, KJ ? Thank you, Robert, for your information. Really, rather similar feature is implemented in last version of Dawn of a New Era (DoNE). Here a screen from DoNE 2.00. I bought in Europe small quantity of various goods and all of them are transported in two slots of my Carrack. http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5247/donaj.jpg And here a list of goods on the carrack. http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6763/listwd.jpg This feature is EXTREMALLY interesting for me and absolutely authentic. I checked the xml files in DoNE 2.00 and found that M07 added a new tag in CIV4UnitInfos.xml: NONE NONE 0 0 1 If I understand correctly, this NewCargo tag is responsible for loading many YIELDS in one slot. This solution is much more optimal that my proposal in this tread. Unnecessary to add "weight" of units, enough to add a new type slot with some features. Great work, M07! :goodjob: It would be absolutely amazing if something similar we could implement in "Religion and Revolution". raystuttgartJan 02, 2012, 09:57 AMHi guys, I would like to continue discussion we started here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11162377&postcount=27) in this thread. :) (It sounds like this will become a big feature. :lol:) By the way: If we change Cargo-Calculation for Transport Units (Ships, Wagon Trains) we should also change Storageroom-Calculation for Cities. (SPECIALBUILDING_WAREHOUSE) Meaning: The limit of goods calculated would not be for a single yield but for the sum of all yields. (Of course the SPECIALBUILDING_WAREHOUSE would increase that limit.) Attention: 1. Changes to Custom House functionaity required ! (Part: City-Storage) 2. Probably Changes to Europe Screen necessary ! (Part: Ship-Cargo) raystuttgartJan 02, 2012, 10:12 AMhttp://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5247/donaj.jpg http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6763/listwd.jpg It would be absolutely amazing if something similar we could implement in "Religion and Revolution". Ok, you guys convinced me. :D (My main concern was UserInterface, but this looks really good. :thumbsup:) Let us wait for feedback from the rest of the team. If all others agree, let us ask Dazio and M07 if they would mind giving us this feature. If we can have it, we could try to integrate this into Release 1. (Also adding the part for City-Storage.) If not, then this should become Release 2. (There is some work behind something like that ...) KJ JanssonJan 02, 2012, 02:09 PMBy the way: If we change Cargo-Calculation for Transport Units (Ships, Wagon Trains) we should also change Storageroom-Calculation for Cities. (SPECIALBUILDING_WAREHOUSE) Meaning: The limit of goods calculated would not be for a single yield but for the sum of all yields. (Of course the SPECIALBUILDING_WAREHOUSE would increase that limit.) This feature was already developed by NeseryozniyVET in his "Amount Resources and New City Capacity" mod. My comments you can read here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16163). You can also download and test how it works in "1492: Gold Rush" v.1.1 mod. This screen made from this mod. http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/4086/newwarehousecapacity.jpg As you see here we have a new calculation of Warehouse capacity. The game calculates the quantity of Wood + Tools + Guns = 20 + 50 + 50 = 120. The summary warehouse capacity is equal to 300. Food is outside of calculation. The source codes are included. The mark "//VET NewCapacity" is related to new calculation of warehouse capacity. All credits for this mod to NeseryozniyVET who created an excellent basis that I only adapted to my needs in "1492:Global Colonization" mod. raystuttgartJan 02, 2012, 02:57 PMThis feature was already developed by NeseryozniyVET in his "Amount Resources and New City Capacity" mod. I know. :) (The two of us had already talked about it about a year ago.) However, we will need to do changes to Custom House logic, when adapting this. raystuttgartJan 03, 2012, 06:33 AM@team: 1. Should we do / plan New Calculation for Cargo (Ships and City Storage) ? 2. If yes, should we try to do it in Release 1 ? My opinion: 1. Yes. I really think this would be a great and very realistic feature. :) 2. Depends on "Getting sources from DoaNE". :dunno: Androrc the OrcJan 03, 2012, 09:42 AMI think it would be too complex to add in Release 1 (if we have to code it on our own, rather than get the DoaNE sources). agaroJan 03, 2012, 08:30 PMI suggest there is a volume limit operating here as well as a weight limit - so I don't think you could load 2,000 units of cotton onto a wagon. With all the new resources you guys are planning getting the ratios of all the items balanced will be pretty complex. Also are you confident all the automated or assigned wagons will be able to handle this loading as well as the human player. Automated loading using this approach will take a lot more processing steps every turn and might slow the turns down too much if you have a lot of wagons. KJ JanssonJan 04, 2012, 01:02 AMI suggest there is a volume limit operating here as well as a weight limit - so I don't think you could load 2,000 units of cotton onto a wagon. With all the new resources you guys are planning getting the ratios of all the items balanced will be pretty complex. Also are you confident all the automated or assigned wagons will be able to handle this loading as well as the human player. Automated loading using this approach will take a lot more processing steps every turn and might slow the turns down too much if you have a lot of wagons. Hi agaro! First of all, welcome to team! A new system, when you can load in one wagon many goods is much better for authomatic transportation. Now your Land transport unit (wagon) can transport only 2 type of goods because each wagon has only 2 slots. It means that you have to use 2 wagons if you need transport 3 or 4 various goods from city 1 to city 2. Or to create more complex algorithm for transportation when during the first run you transport goods 1 and 2, during run 2 - goods 3 and 4. The game perfectly understunds both variants. Now, let's image, we have a new system, when you can load in your wagon all goods requied for transportation. One wagon will be enough to transport all goods in 1 run. Why the problems could appear for AI to understand this new algorithm? Please, try "1492: Gold Rush" mod, where exactly such system is developped for Warehouse capacity. AI understands it perfectly. @team: 1. Should we do / plan New Calculation for Cargo (Ships and City Storage) ? 2. If yes, should we try to do it in Release 1 ? My opinion: 1. Yes. I really think this would be a great and very realistic feature. 2. Depends on "Getting sources from DoaNE". I think it would be too complex to add in Release 1 (if we have to code it on our own, rather than get the DoaNE sources). Yes, I agree with Andre. Let's wait results of Robert's discussion with his French colleagues. agaroJan 04, 2012, 02:42 AMHi agaro! First of all, welcome to team! A new system, when you can load in one wagon many goods is much better for authomatic transportation. Now your Land transport unit (wagon) can transport only 2 type of goods because each wagon has only 2 slots. It means that you have to use 2 wagons if you need transport 3 or 4 various goods from city 1 to city 2. Or to create more complex algorithm for transportation when during the first run you transport goods 1 and 2, during run 2 - goods 3 and 4. The game perfectly understunds both variants. Now, let's image, we have a new system, when you can load in your wagon all goods requied for transportation. One wagon will be enough to transport all goods in 1 run. Why the problems could appear for AI to understand this new algorithm? Please, try "1492: Gold Rush" mod, where exactly such system is developped for Warehouse capacity. AI understands it perfectly. I will try 1492, but first a bit of clarification. The human player can use 3 types of wagons: - manually loaded wagons, - assigned trade route wagons (restricted to some cargos and some cities), - fully automated wagons (can take any cargo to any city - as long as cities set up to export / import of course). As far as I am aware the AI player will always use fully automated wagons only. My recommendation is that short-route, single-stage, multi-good shuttle wagons are most efficient. See this http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=382590 Under the new multiple goods in slot approach... For manually loaded wagons: Human can load whatever they want to 200kgs, so will need less wagons. Good for them. For Assigned wagons: These currently select cargos based on biggest economic value (size x unit value). So if they were to combine loads in one slot it would probably still be better to carry the max combined value, rather than max combined weight. But again these wagons would benefit from being able to carry multiple loads at once - again good for human. For Fully Automated wagons: Fully automated wagons are more tricky to use efficiently because they can go to any city they like, they tend to travel empty some of the time, and they compete rather than cooperate - i.e. more than one wagon will try to do the same move order. Again these benefit from carrying multiple loads - but perhaps not as much as assigned wagons. You will get some very full efficient trips, but perhaps more empty slots also. You will probably use less wagons, but this will mean longer wait times. Anyway I will try 1492 and then comment more. raystuttgartJan 04, 2012, 03:20 AMI suggest there is a volume limit operating here as well as a weight limit - Totally agains "weight limit", sorry. Please let us make this feature not even more complicated ! 1. It will become much more complicated for us to implement generally. 2. It will be much more difficult to create good AI. 3. It will be much more difficult to understand and handle by Human. (less fun) 4. I don't see at all, why it is needed from a point of "authenticity". Seriously, it really is a very bad idea to implemet too complicated things if not necessary. Let us go with "cargo space / volume" and that's it. ;) Considering AI: I really don't see any big problems here. I am sure, we could create a good feature. :thumbsup: However, the team still needs to accept this idea. :) KJ JanssonJan 04, 2012, 03:21 AMSo if they were to combine loads in one slot it would probably still be better to carry the max combined value, rather than max combined weight. But again these wagons would benefit from being able to carry multiple loads at once - again good for human. Sorry, arago, but probably there is a small misunderstanding. I really proposed in the first post to use "weight" parameter, but Robert told that in "Dawn of New Era" already realized much more effective technique. They transport UNITS (quantities) of goods, as we have now in vanilla game, not weights. But you can load in each SLOT as many different types of goods as you need. This is a significant step forward compairing to current variant, when you can load in each slot only ONE type of goods. Please, see the screens from this mod in this theme. raystuttgartJan 04, 2012, 03:43 AM@Team: These are the questions I would like to clarify: 1. Do you want to have limits for city storage calculated by the sum of all goods (except food) ? (Currently it is calculated separately for every good.) 2. Do you want the possibility to load several goods into a cargo slot until cargo space volume of that slot is reached ? (Currently every cargo slot can have only one good.) 3. Would you like to get these features for Release 1, if we get the sources from DoaNE ? (Otherwise we should really do this later. Probably in Release 2.) I would personally answer all 3 questions with "Yes". KJ JanssonJan 04, 2012, 05:03 AM@Team: These are the questions I would like to clarify: 1. Do you want to have limits for city storage calculated by the sum of all goods (except food) ? (Currently it is calculated separately for every good.) 2. Do you want the possibility to load several goods into a cargo slot until cargo space volume of that slot is reached ? (Currently evey cargo slot can have only one good.) 3. Would you like to get these features for Release 1, if we get the sources from DoaNE ? (Otherwise we should really do this later. Probably in Release 2.) My answer: "Yes" to all questions. 1. Do you want to have limits for city storage calculated by the sum of all goods (except food) ? (Currently it is calculated separately for every good.) This is also a very useful feature. Now in TAC/R&R I have troubles with my warehouse capacity if I produce in my city something special, for instance, cigars. I harvest a lot of tobacco, produce a lot of cigars and all the time I must check the moment when I have to stop harvesting or production due to warehouse capacity limit. It would be more or less acceptable if in my warehouse would be full other goods. But it is empty. I have nothing more: only some Food, Tobacco and Cigars. Thus, a new Warehouse capacity, when a city storage calculated by the sum of all goods, permits to bypass this problem. raystuttgartJan 04, 2012, 07:09 AMOk, the two of us fully agree. :) Let us see, what the others say. :thumbsup: M07Jan 04, 2012, 04:02 PMHi everyone, I am sorry but Dazio and me don't want to show our source code for the time being. I can't work with you because I prefer to work on DoaNE. My free time is running out :). However, I can explain what I did. In the vanilla, when we loaded some yields in a boat, units yields were created. I stop that. I created a new variable on CvUnit I called : m_aiCargoYield = new int[NUM_YIELD_TYPES]; So when I said to load X tools, i call a function that increase it: m_aiCargoYield[YIELD_TOOLS] += X; You must be careful with IA, they must use it well or you will have some crashes ^^. Then the harder part, it's graphical representation of this new system. If you have some questions, I could answer it. I almost forgot to say you : Happy New Year!! :newyear::newyear: agaroJan 04, 2012, 07:00 PM@Team: These are the questions I would like to clarify: 1. Do you want to have limits for city storage calculated by the sum of all goods (except food) ? (Currently it is calculated separately for every good.) 2. Do you want the possibility to load several goods into a cargo slot until cargo space volume of that slot is reached ? (Currently every cargo slot can have only one good.) 3. Would you like to get these features for Release 1, if we get the sources from DoaNE ? (Otherwise we should really do this later. Probably in Release 2.) Yes I missed the changing of ideas from a weight / density aggregation back to a more simpler unit based aggregation - which I agree is simpler and will resolve the problem adequately. This also removes some of my concern about the time for turn processing as lots of automated wagons try to calculate the optimum trip and cargos. 1) Warehouse storage. Yes I think everyone would like to be able to access unused storage space for overflow of a particular good. However, the bigger question is what should the aggregated maximum capacity be? I wouldn't want it any more restrictive than it is now. I am not sure how many warehouse slots there are now - maybe 14 (exc food). But if you made max warehouse capacity 300 units x 14 = 4,200 units this would often allow unlimited storage as many specialised cities would never use some of the slots. But if you had a low max cap this would penalize the operation of your main European import/export city, or transport hub cities, which would have to hold large amounts of lots of different goods - If you do this it would probably be useful to also be able to keep building more total warehouse capacity (which could become more and more expensive). - Also I think this might help with Ray's issue to make large AI cities have better defense. One way is to allow them to store more than 300 guns. I am often confident attacking big AI cities because I know they cannot mobilise more than 6 additional soldiers, beyond what is in the garrison, because they don't store more than 300 guns. 2) Transport cargo slots: Yes. This is simpler because max capacity is still 200 for wagons or 600 for galleons, so there won't be any significant game balance issues. 3) I am not sure how MO7's response changes the feasibility of what is possible for release 1, or at all, so I won't comment on that. I'll leave that to the people who have to do the coding. KJ JanssonJan 05, 2012, 02:12 AM1) Warehouse storage. Yes I think everyone would like to be able to access unused storage space for overflow of a particular good. However, the bigger question is what should the aggregated maximum capacity be? I wouldn't want it any more restrictive than it is now. I am not sure how many warehouse slots there are now - maybe 14 (exc food). But if you made max warehouse capacity 300 units x 14 = 4,200 units this would often allow unlimited storage as many specialised cities would never use some of the slots. But if you had a low max cap this would penalize the operation of your main European import/export city, or transport hub cities, which would have to hold large amounts of lots of different goods Warehouse storage is a subject of fine balancing. I use 800 for my Warehouse in "1492 Gold 1.1" mod. This value is 8 times higher that in vanilla version where 100 Probably 8 times is too much, however, this parameter very easy to adjust in XML (CIV4BuildingInfos.xml). Robert SurcoufJan 06, 2012, 07:28 AM@Team: These are the questions I would like to clarify: 1. Do you want to have limits for city storage calculated by the sum of all goods (except food) ? (Currently it is calculated separately for every good.) 2. Do you want the possibility to load several goods into a cargo slot until cargo space volume of that slot is reached ? (Currently every cargo slot can have only one good.) 3. Would you like to get these features for Release 1, if we get the sources from DoaNE ? (Otherwise we should really do this later. Probably in Release 2.) I would answer yes to all three ! agaroMar 13, 2012, 08:51 PMWe don't seem to have a separate thread for City Storage or Customs House so I'll make comments here. Customs House is included in the general mod thread, but it might be better to consider separately with other cargo / storage issues. #City Storage: I think the aggregate City Storage works well, even moreso now that we seem to be adding additional storage for City Hall etc. What I don't like about it is the way it picks cargo to loose when you go over the limit. It seems to me that the if faced with limited storage the colonists would make a choice of what not to store - and that wouldn't be 5 guns or 5 units of silver. Is there a way we can re-weight the removing algorithm to loose first all the primary produce items of low economic value? I think this would be more realistic. #Customs House: Ok I never played the original colonisation so I don't understand what function the Customs House played in that game. I get the impression some players like the Customs House as an alternative to selling goods in Europe - but for me I will always opt to take my premium goods to Europe for 20% better prices. When the Customs House is available late in the game you should have frigates to protect your european trade so it isn't really a problem. The Customs House might be useful if it still sold your goods after DOI, if you ceased European trade, but my understanding is that it doesn't. So for me the only thing I want a Customs House for is bigger storage and a slightly better payment for goods overflow. In particular I don't want it making selling choices for me. Currently the Customs House is selling premium goods when the total storage is well less than capacity (1,800). For example: - If my Customs House is in my main ship building port, I don't want the Customs House selling cloth every time the quantity gets near 100. - I don't want it selling silver if I am saving to build Government palaces (and maybe I've already driven the price down too much), - I don't want it to sell horses or guns ever, - I don't want it to sell rum if I am saving it to sell to natives or build a navy port. Ok we could have a lot of debate about what the coding for the Customs House should be, but I suspect we wouldn't all agree. As an alternative could we get a screen where each player could call up the Customs House variables and then change them as they want - setting an individual "sell when more than" for each cargo, and "sell never" for some cargos. This would be neat and then each player could change how the Customs House operates whenever they want. Or at the minimum a never sell anything unless at total capacity option? - Obviously the AI would just have to have some default settings, but their transport and trading is so dumb anyway that this would not give them any extra burden. raystuttgartMar 14, 2012, 03:59 AM#City Storage: Is there a way we can re-weight the removing algorithm to loose first all the primary produce items of low economic value? I think this would be more realistic. Of course, there is a way. :) I will try to implement a new algorithm (using prices probably) here. :thumbsup: (Just give me some time, my todo list is pretty long ...) #Customs House: Ok I never played the original colonisation so I don't understand what function the Customs House played in that game. I get the impression some players like the Customs House as an alternative to selling goods in Europe - but for me I will always opt to take my premium goods to Europe for 20% better prices. When the Customs House is available late in the game you should have frigates to protect your european trade so it isn't really a problem. The Customs House might be useful if it still sold your goods after DOI, if you ceased European trade, but my understanding is that it doesn't. 1. Custom House will sell goods after DOI. :) 2. Yes, for most players Custom House is the alternative for having goods sold in Europe. For those players it is absolutely necessary, that Custom House can sell goods at lower storage than Max-City-Storage. Do you really think that these players would want to store 1800 Cotton in a city, before Custome House starts selling Cotton ? (By the way, the settings for that are in XML.) 3. Before "New Storage Capacity" Custom House was also selling at 100 goods stored. --> I really do not see, where we got worse. :confused: (Now this is even a higher number for some goods.) So for me the only thing I want a Customs House for is bigger storage and a slightly better payment for goods overflow. In particular I don't want it making selling choices for me. I was absolutely necessary to implement "New Warehouse Capacity + Custom House" in a way that it would work for AI and players as well. My time of implementing features is currently really limited and this feature was already a massive amount of work to be implemented without crashing AI / game balance / trade route system / ... (Any non-programmer can hardly imagine how many things have to be considered for a feature like that ...) As an alternative could we get a screen where each player could call up the Customs House variables and then change them as they want - setting an individual "sell when more than" for each cargo, and "sell never" for some cargos. I was thinking of that already at the beginning of the implementation. :) But then I thought, maybe it would work without for a playable version 1. (I really have a big problem finding the time to do all the fixes, improvements, new implementations, ... that I would like to do.) Maybe Robert could help out with such a screen ? :dunno: (The setting in XML could be a default and used for AI.) Or at the minimum a never sell anything unless at total capacity option? Obviously the AI would just have to have some default settings, but their transport and trading is so dumb anyway that this would not give them any extra burden. Currently the feature (New City Storage) is designed to be handled well by AI. :) (That was my priority #1.) Summary: I think this feature (New Storage Capacity + Custom House) works very well currently. :) It is a great improvement compared to the old system for me personally. It is adjustable in XML to personal taste. (But this might affect AI ...) It is even possible to completely deacitvate in XML, if somebody does not like it. :) But of course, a screen where you could actually control goods sold by Custom House would be great. :thumbsup: (Maybe Robert could take a look.) Also, I will try to create a new algorithm for overflow. :thumbsup: Robert SurcoufMar 14, 2012, 02:23 PMYour feedback agaro is quite interesting. I agree with you. For me too it is quite important to control which goods are sold. But of course, a screen where you could actually control goods sold by Custom House would be great. :thumbsup: (Maybe Robert could take a look.) Indeed, maybe I should! I'll try to take a look at this... raystuttgartMar 14, 2012, 03:48 PM@Robert: If you could create a CustomHouse-Screen similar to this one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=316126&d=1331757609), I could do the logic that uses these settings. :) I would suggest the following input possibilities: Integer-Field: Custom House Sell Threshold Checkbox: Never sell by Custom House Then these 4 Methods: void setCustomHouseSellThrehold(int x) int getCustomHouseSellThreshold() <--- If I get 0, I would use XML settings. This should also be default. void setIsSoldByCustomHouse(bool b) bool getIsSoldByCustomHouse() <--- True should be default. They would only be used by logic if player is human. The button could be right next to the one that opens this screen. What do you think ? :) Edit: By searching for "getMaintainLevel" or "setMaintainLevel" you should find the right places in sources (as example). :thumbsup: agaroMar 14, 2012, 05:26 PMThanks for agreeing to look at an individually controllable screen option. Custom House will sell goods after DOI. :) Even if you choose the cease trading with Europe clause in the Constitution? (reject Monarchy I think it is?). I thought this was discussed earlier above in this thread and the answer was no. If we have changed that to yes (for the sake of gameplay) who do we say is now buying the goods in the Customs House. If the Customs House still functions during WOI that would be very useful, provided you prevented that city being captured of course. A 20% cut in prices would be preferred to running the Man O' War blockade. raystuttgartMar 14, 2012, 05:59 PMThanks for agreeing to look at an individually controllable screen option. It was never a matter of "not wanting at all". :) It was more "where put efforts into first" ... I thought this was discussed earlier above in this thread and the answer was no. Where ? :confused: This was never requested to my knowledge. (Also I would not have liked that, for sure.) If we have changed that to yes (for the sake of gameplay) who do we say is now buying the goods in the Customs House. No, this was not changed. It always was like that. I just adapted Custom House to New City Storage. Why shouldn't there be "independent" traders from all kinds of Nations still buying goods from your custom houses after you declare independent ? :dunno: If the Customs House still functions during WOI that would be very useful, provided you prevented that city being captured of course. A 20% cut in prices would be preferred to running the Man O' War blockade. This part is still just the same, as in TAC. Behaviour with boycotted goods was changes as requested by Gomer. agaroMar 14, 2012, 06:53 PMWhy shouldn't there be "independent" traders from all kinds of Nations still buying goods from your custom houses after you declare independent ? Behaviour with boycotted goods was changes as requested by Gomer. Yes, sorry, I was confused with boycotted goods and the discussion with Gomer. I didn't pick up the difference between (tax boycotted) and post DOI trading ban with Europe. I am happy for this to happen, I just didn't understand the logic. If the Customs House is multi-national certainly other traders would still want to buy, particularly nations hostile to your king (and they would buy tax boycotted goods as well). orlanthMar 14, 2012, 07:37 PMOriginally Posted by agaro View Post Thanks for agreeing to look at an individually controllable screen option. It was never a matter of "not wanting at all". It was more "where put efforts into first" ... Yes having this type of screen or tab would be nice. Perhaps you could combine this with the planned screen for Domestic Economy, so you would only need one screen. If the Customs House is multi-national certainly other traders would still want to buy, particularly nations hostile to your king (and they would buy tax boycotted goods as well). I'm still interested by Ray's plan to eventually allow for trading with other European King nations if relations are good (though I know that's only a possible feature for much later :P) Needing to sustain good relations with other nations would be a great way to allow some exports after Revolution. raystuttgartMar 16, 2012, 01:58 AM@team: I have taken a look again at our current algorithm for storage overflow. Algorithm (simplified): The more amount you have of a certain good you have, the more you will loose to storage overflow. Actually I would really not like to change it. The reasons are simple: 1. It is working really good without bugs to my knowledge. 2. It is very performant, meaning fast. 3. It is authentic to my opinion. Why "authentic" ? To my opinion, storage overflow is no controlled action, where colonists could decide everything. It is a situation mostly out of control because of mismanagement. Goods are damaged, lost, stolen and maybe also partially sold. It is very simple actually: Don't let overflow happen. :) (Otherwise you as a player will be punished for the mismanagement.) Having "cheap goods lost first by overflow" is similar to "having unimportant colonists die first by diseases" to me. Please let us leave it as it is. :thumbsup: Edit: This has nothing to do with "Screen for Custom House". :)