This happens if you start on the part of the world that equates to the Americas south of Mexico. We just don't have enough of the animals from there.

On my GEM map the entire south of Amercia east of the Andes (which is isolated by mountains from any civ start point) had an animal on EVERY tile by the time I got there from north America with canoes.

This happens if you start on the part of the world that equates to the Americas south of Mexico. We just don't have enough of the animals from there.

But i opened up the WB and looked at the "whole" map and nothing on it besides Eagles and Neanderthals?? Now that shouldn't happen on a NEW map just formed?? What am i missing here??:crazyeye:

So that means then that PerfectWorld2f is not a good mapscript then? It used to be?

EDIT: OK i tried two different maps, one a mapscript, Mongoose one, and GEM, and it still has NO animals, attached pic is from South America, bottom portion, so that isn't the correctly theory, do you think it might have been the dll portion that Koshling has changed that might be affecting this by any chance??

Something has changed in the last 10 days for this to happen, never did before????? Its NOT even fun to play withOUT them:mad: Shows you how much they are a PART of C2C, IMHO.

This happens if you start on the part of the world that equates to the Americas south of Mexico. We just don't have enough of the animals from there.

What animals do you have on that list? I would be interested in seeing a list of what animals you have where. I know all about the animals I converted for you.

Now i am getting another one of those CTD when loading again??

All i was doing was starting a NEW game, and poof nothing after the XML loading??

But i opened up the WB and looked at the "whole" map and nothing on it besides Eagles and Neanderthals?? Now that shouldn't happen on a NEW map just formed?? What am i missing here??:crazyeye:

So that means then that PerfectWorld2f is not a good mapscript then? It used to be?

EDIT: OK i tried two different maps, one a mapscript, Mongoose one, and GEM, and it still has NO animals, attached pic is from South America, bottom portion, so that isn't the correctly theory, do you think it might have been the dll portion that Koshling has changed that might be affecting this by any chance??

Something has changed in the last 10 days for this to happen, never did before????? Its NOT even fun to play withOUT them:mad: Shows you how much they are a PART of C2C, IMHO.
What is your animal spawn modifier set to?

What is your animal spawn modifier set to?

I dont change anything from the SVN, what so ever, so whats there is what i use.

I dont change anything from the SVN, what so ever, so whats there is what i use.
Check anyway to make sure it is set to 100. And if that is the case set it to 500 and look if you get animals this time.

I am getting a %s in the text on the diplomatic screen.

Here is a savedgame with "almost" the same as the worker was, the slave unit walked right up next to the enemy withOUT regards to anything else? see attached

When getting arcology and arcology shields they should replace the old walls graphic on in a city but for some reason they don't. Why is this? It still looks like they have barbed wire walls even through it should now look more like a force field.

I can confirm that the holes in the fog of war at sea are caused by battles where the ship has extended range of sight. I only let one ship have that promo. Unfortunately getting a save just before is proving difficult. I keep getting distracted.

I can confirm that the holes in the fog of war at sea are caused by battles where the ship has extended range of sight. I only let one ship have that promo. Unfortunately getting a save just before is proving difficult. I keep getting distracted.

If your using the SVN then it automatically saves in the Max Comp style already, i did that just for that reason.;)

OK here is another slave moving into enemy paths 1 complete turn before it happens.


EDIT: OK here is a different one, now even the settlers of the enemy are doing the same thing????? 1390

EDIT EDIT: OK now a non-attacking unit (TownWatchman) walking right up to a city and just standing there, with the enemy with a 10 str as an opponent? 1490

In the attached savegame, when giving the explore order to the selected Caravel(s) (if not selected, go to Delhi, there are 2 non moved Caravels) the game stops for about 10 secs. Not serious, but annoying when sending them mass exploring, I haven't checked yet if this impedes turn times.
Revision 1759 (may be already fixed, IDK).

313907


Edit: Seems the effect on ones own turn is significant, till all Caravels are moved the game is practically unresponsive.

Anyone took a look at this ? On maps with large bodies of oceans any sea automation is unusable because it increases turn times considerably and makes diplo/map/city screens choppy and slow until all automated units have made their move.

OK here is another slave moving into enemy paths 1 complete turn before it happens.


EDIT: OK here is a different one, now even the settlers of the enemy are doing the same thing????? 1390

EDIT EDIT: OK now a non-attacking unit (TownWatchman) walking right up to a city and just standing there, with the enemy with a 10 str as an opponent? 1490

Unlikely to have time to look at this before Monday. However, recent chnages applied only to workers (and settlers for some action), which use different routines in the AI. Nothing should have changed the behaviour of other units in this regard recently. So the town watchman issue (and possibly the slave issue - I'm not too sure about slaves off hand) are not related to the previous worker issues. The settler case might be. The town watchman copuld also conceivably be related tio the attack stack behaviour chnage - it might be rendevousing with an attack stack that got cold feet or something (should be possible to check, though I might need a save from a couple of turns earlier)

Unlikely to have time to look at this before Monday. However, recent chnages applied only to workers (and settlers for some action), which use different routines in the AI. Nothing should have changed the behaviour of other units in this regard recently. So the town watchman issue (and possibly the slave issue - I'm not too sure about slaves off hand) are not related to the previous worker issues. The settler case might be. The town watchman copuld also conceivably be related tio the attack stack behaviour chnage - it might be rendevousing with an attack stack that got cold feet or something (should be possible to check, though I might need a save from a couple of turns earlier)

The saved games above are all the same game, so you need just to back track or proceed from there, BUT only if you have time, if not no biggy.

The saved games above are all the same game, so you need just to back track or proceed from there, BUT only if you have time, if not no biggy.

I'll look as I'm able. So far I have looked at the slave example. Slaves do use the same AI as regular workers, but the reason this one behaves as it does is (semi) deliberate. It's moving next to a foreign unit inside its own territory. Because it is within its own territory it doesn't require an escort unless some actual enemy action has occured (like attack or pillage) since attacking would be an act of war, and it basically assumes you are not going to cause a war over a single worker (otherwise the presnce of explorer units liek this one would cause the AI to stop improving its tiles out of paranoi).

The flaw in this case is that you are ALREADY at war, sio the logic doesn't really apply. However, it's not so much a bug as a wekaness in the AI in thi regard, which is not new. As such I don't think it's urgent to fix. However, I will add it to my list of AI wekanesses to address, as it's probably low-hanging fruit and easy to do (so expect it sometime next week - it shouldn't prevent v21 however).

I'll edit this post as I get time to examine the other two cases...

Edit - I've loaded the 1390 save and I don' see the settler - can you load it up and find it, then post a descriptiion or image to tell me wheer to look? (probably going to have the same question for the 1490 case too when I get to that - in general please try to post a brief description, or map coordinates or soemthing to tell me where on the map to look)

Edit 2 - ok - the 1490 case I can see the problem unit and will analyse. Still can't find the settler in the 1390 case...

Edit 3 - ok, understand the townwatchman issue (1490). It's not new, or strictly a bug. Just an unintended stupidity which again I will try to address sometime soonish. Non-urgent and should not stop v21. Basically the town watchman is answering a request from a worker for an escort, but to reach said worker it has to pass through danger itself. Currently the code for units heading off to escort workers doesn't look for safe paths (since usually it is just traversing it own territory to go take up escort duties). In this case the nearest defensive unit able to answer the escort request has to cross your territory (or go around via a longer path) to do so, so it is putting itself in (severe!) danger in answering the request this way. I'll change the code to handle thi case, but it'll be next week sometime.

Both the save games are valuable test cases. I expect the 1390 one will be too, but I'll need more info on that one to identify where the problem is occurring.

I had a big paragraph, but that darn server cut me off, anyways heres a NEW settler one turn before moving into enemy territory

I had a big paragraph, but that darn server cut me off, anyways heres a NEW settler one turn before moving into enemy territory

This one will be obvious right, since no description with it ;) ?

Edit - ok this one was obvious and it turns out to be an original BBAI bug. Again not new, nor super-urgent. I'll fix it next week sometime. It shouldn't hold up v21 release.

The bug occurs when a settler (witgh escorts) is headed to a city founding site, and on the way there finds there is danger nearby. At that point it unconditionally gives up on the founding , separates itself from it escorts (!!) and retreats to the nearest safe city. Couple of things wrong with this:

1) Separating from the escort before it reaches owned territory is dumb.

2) Giving up on the founding without evaluating how bad the danger is relative to the strength of its escort seem wrong.

3) Giving up on the founding without determining how close it is to completing its mission is sub-optimal. In your case it was actually ON the tile it wanted to found on!!

This one will be obvious right, since no description with it ;) ?


Like i said above i have a big paragraph prepared but that dan server keeps going out and when i hit submit it erased it all, so i did take any changes that time and just send what i could, sorry.

But here is another worker, but this time with an escort, BUT why are they even IN my territory, nothing to the right at all??

Anyone took a look at this ? On maps with large bodies of oceans any sea automation is unusable because it increases turn times considerably and makes diplo/map/city screens choppy and slow until all automated units have made their move.

I haven't had chance to loom at this yet via your save game, but it has now reached the top of my list, so it'll be next. However, it sounds very like a general case that got fixed a month or so ago (might have been after v20 release though), so before I delve into is just a check - are you running the latest SVN (or at least latest DLL from the patch thread), or are you running vanilla v20?

I haven't had chance to loom at this yet via your save game, but it has now reached the top of my list, so it'll be next. However, it sounds very like a general case that got fixed a month or so ago (might have been after v20 release though), so before I delve into is just a check - are you running the latest SVN (or at least latest DLL from the patch thread), or are you running vanilla v20?

I have noticed this happening with the latest SVN.

I haven't had chance to loom at this yet via your save game, but it has now reached the top of my list, so it'll be next. However, it sounds very like a general case that got fixed a month or so ago (might have been after v20 release though), so before I delve into is just a check - are you running the latest SVN (or at least latest DLL from the patch thread), or are you running vanilla v20?

I updated to SVN 1815 where this comes up too. Auto sea explore takes a long time to compute on every unit and auto piracy has this too and behaves different from what I've seen in the past. I put one privateer on auto piracy while in a stack in my cultural borders and nothing happens, except that another privateer in the same stack is awakened from sleep. After moving the priv near the enemy coast it does piracy but it seems to be limited to a certain radius around the plot from where it startet (this might be coincedental). Also it never sleeps for repairs despite no enemy naval units near it. Another general observation is, that the naval AI really likes to hit reefs with their moves :lol:

I can post another save with a 100 privs to play around with.

A Typo Bug I just found in SVNr1778- the "Australian" Culture Resource needed to build their heroes is called "Austrlian". Hardly major, but.

- Micael

A Typo Bug I just found in SVNr1778- the "Australian" Culture Resource needed to build their heroes is called "Austrlian". Hardly major, but.

- Micael

Thanks for reporting I will go fix it.

I updated to SVN 1815 where this comes up too. Auto sea explore takes a long time to compute on every unit and auto piracy has this too and behaves different from what I've seen in the past. I put one privateer on auto piracy while in a stack in my cultural borders and nothing happens, except that another privateer in the same stack is awakened from sleep. After moving the priv near the enemy coast it does piracy but it seems to be limited to a certain radius around the plot from where it startet (this might be coincedental). Also it never sleeps for repairs despite no enemy naval units near it. Another general observation is, that the naval AI really likes to hit reefs with their moves :lol:

I can post another save with a 100 privs to play around with.

The existing one will be fine. I'm sure this will turn out to be (essentially) the same thinge that I addressed in elements of the naval AI a while ago. Basically it boils down to ocean path generation between tiles separated by land on the direct path (so the actual path is very indirect) being extremely expensive to compute. Several AI routines tried to generate paths to potential targets that were literally on the other side of the world. I addressed this by limitting their search to a certain radius (which is probably why you're seing the change in privateer behaviour). It's a tricky balancing act between performance and effectiveness (when the nearest targets really are very distant). For now I'm veering on the side of performance, because the effect is so dramatic. Longer term I need to establish a secondary routine that (if the primary search cannot find anything useful to do) establishes some pre-computed waypoints and just has things move to one of them before searching again (or something similar).

Edit - actually your case was something quite different! It was down to a 'cheat' (IMO) in the AI (and player automation) explore routine. When deciding wheer to move for exploration it considers every tile in a (quite large range) and gives each a score according to how good it would be to go theer for exploration purposes. This score score goody huts you have already revealed very highly, but in their absence it scores unrevealed tiles at 10000, and each unrevealed neighbour at 1000, plus a bonus for coasts and owned tiles. As it enumerates the tiles, for each one that has a higher score than the highest it has so far considered minus a max possible random adjust (see later) it evaluates the path to it, and if it is reachable saves that tile as the best so far along with its score adjusted by a random adjustment to prevent everything always pathing the same way.

This causes a riduculous amount of path generation for two reasons:

1) Adding the random adjust AFTER the pathability check means it has to make the pathability check for all tile score that are within the max random adjust of the best so far. I have changed it to add the random adjust before the pathability check, so that it only has to generate the path if ther result exceeds the best score so far.

2) IMO, even considering tiles that are not even adjacent to something you already know about is basically a cheat! This means the automation/AI can effectively spot nearby coasts by 'magic'. It also means it has to evaluate pathability to nearly every ocean tile, because they all score about the same. I have adjusted it to skip tiles that it doesn't yet know about (so now it considers revealed tiles and tiles adjacent to revelaed tiles - i.e. - your knowledge horizon)

Doing both of these things reduced the time for ONE caraval to perform its automated explore move (from your posted save game, I just hit the automated-explore button for the first caravel that comes up selected on load) from 9.92 seconds to 0.95 seconds. There is still definate room for improvement (evaluate all scores first and sort them, then evaluate paths in reverse score orde,r stopping as soon as one is pathable) but I'll get to that next week. I think the order of magnitude difference the simple changes make justifies pushing this change now...

I have pushed this change to SVN and will also post it on the patch thread (first v21 patch).

Like i said above i have a big paragraph prepared but that dan server keeps going out and when i hit submit it erased it all, so i did take any changes that time and just send what i could, sorry.

But here is another worker, but this time with an escort, BUT why are they even IN my territory, nothing to the right at all??

I think it's heading somewhere to the south and not actively AVOIDING your territory on its way (which it probably should). I'll do something about it when addressing your other cases over the next few days.

I think it's heading somewhere to the south and not actively AVOIDING your territory on its way (which it probably should). I'll do something about it when addressing your other cases over the next few days.

Is it ok then to delete them from the posted threads then?

Is it ok then to delete them from the posted threads then?

The first 3 yes, but not the last one yet. So far I haven't downloaded that save.

I realize V21 was just published, but I ran into a couple of late game bugs while still playing V20 I thought I'd pass along.. Unfortunately I wasn't able to duplicate the carrier/carrier plane upgrade issue I had earlier (and I hadn't saved it then :( ), but I did run into two other issues.

1)For some reason submarines aren't getting any experience upon construction. They still get initial free promotions from Wonders, but no experience from specialists or civics. If you quick rush a sub from one of the cities in the save it'll demonstrate it appropriately.

2)In the save, at a glance it appears as tho I'm hemmorhaging gold. However, if you end turn, you'll see that I"m actually gaining gold per turn. This started several turns ago when I DoW'd an opponent and launched 2 dozen ICBM's in a rather nasty first strike.

V20:

Not sure if really a bug or just stupidity, but in my current game (Deity, ruthless AI, gigantic, slowest gamespeed) Toku and Gengis switched back to chiefdom in the Industrial age. I have no idea why, because they both have over 40 cities and were the techleaders. Now they have much trouble with the unhappieness in their cities and it takes 15 turns to researche old techs (me 5 takes with 40 cities). I build the UN but if I vote for global democracy, they both vote NEVER!

Any idea how to rescue my game?



Also, when i researched Steam Power, my Watermills on ice stoped existing and I wasn't able to build new ones.

V20:

Not sure if really a bug or just stupidity, but in my current game (Deity, ruthless AI, gigantic, slowest gamespeed) Toku and Gengis switched back to chiefdom in the Industrial age. I have no idea why, because they both have over 40 cities and were the techleaders. Now they have much trouble with the unhappieness in their cities and it takes 15 turns to researche old techs (me 5 takes with 40 cities). I build the UN but if I vote for global democracy, they both vote NEVER!

Any idea how to rescue my game?

Get v21, this problem was fixed in v21 and your save game will work unless you turned off maximum compatability saves which requires you do stuff in the XML so you probably didn't.