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Hydromancerx
Feb 02, 2012, 07:50 PM
This topic is made to discuss the 3 proposed map types for the Galactic Era. They include Lunar, Martian and Galactic.

The concept of having more than 1 map is taken from the Civilization Tactical Combat Development Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=441280). Hopefully in the near future we can utilize this mod so we can my our own additional maps.

All of this discussion is base on the Galactic Era discussion (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=435974).

Hydromancerx
Feb 02, 2012, 07:51 PM
*reserved*

Hydromancerx
Feb 02, 2012, 07:51 PM
*reserved*

Hydromancerx
Feb 02, 2012, 07:52 PM
*Reserved for Galactic Map Info*

ls612
Feb 03, 2012, 05:17 PM
Lunar Map

* = Already in the Game

Terrain

Barren*
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% Time to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: No

Lunar Desert
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -3
Defense: -25%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% to Build
Cities: Requires Coast or Freshwater
Terrain Damage: Yes


I think we should try not to have references to freshwater on the moon:mischief:.

At any rate, for the Galactic Map I'd start with Final Frontier Plus. God-Emperor is a semi-regular on this forum, and would probably be willing to provide advice/resources on this front.

JosEPh_II
Feb 03, 2012, 05:24 PM
On the Mars map both Ice and Permafrost should provide Water, Food and Fresh water. Unless there are rivers on Mars these areas will be the Main water providing areas.

JosEPh

Hydromancerx
Feb 03, 2012, 05:28 PM
On the Mars map both Ice and Permafrost should provide Water, Food and Fresh water. Unless there are rivers on Mars these areas will be the Main water providing areas.

JosEPh

I am purposefully avoiding food since there is nothing to eat on the Moon or Mars. Everything that they get food from would have to be brought by them such as agrodome improvements for farms before things get terraformed. Note that terraforming would improve the terrain to give food yields.

JosEPh_II
Feb 03, 2012, 05:38 PM
But what about water and fresh water?

I am purposefully avoiding food since there is nothing to eat on <snip> Mars.
But we Really don't Know if Mars has anything edible or not. So why exclude the possibility?

Terraforming will Be Essential I agree. And will be the overall basic means. But discovery of new food stuffs should not be excluded either.

JosEPh

JosEPh

Hydromancerx
Feb 03, 2012, 05:49 PM
I did not say I would limit freshwater on Mars. The moon probably would not have it or if it did very rare. Colonization of other worlds is going to be much harder than colonizing another landmass like in the colonial era of the game.

In addition I imagine colonization working like this ...

1. Your city builds a launching pad or spaceport.
2. Your city sends out a probe or rover to scout out the terrain.
3. Your city sends out a colony pod which works like a settler. This would be specific to each map. So you could not settle a moon settler on mars or or earth, etc.
4. The new colony would have limited building choices which would expand as you sent more stuff to the colony.
5. Send more cargo ships which would give special buildings only buildable either by the cargoship unit or by a special colony building.

For instance you send a factory pod to the Moon so it can start manufacturing buildings and units of their own. This would be much easier to do than sending cargoships into space. And thus start them on a more sustainable colony.

I think we should try not to have references to freshwater on the moon:mischief:.


Some ice may be found underground or within the shadow of craters. But I agree that it would be extremely rare to find freshwater. No rivers on the Moon for example. However with terraforming things can change.


At any rate, for the Galactic Map I'd start with Final Frontier Plus. God-Empereor is a semi-regular on this forum, and would probably be willing to provide advice/resources on this front.

At the very least I would use the default Final Frontier mod that comes with the game. Any mods that add to that would be a great asset since less work for us.

ls612
Feb 03, 2012, 06:01 PM
Some ice may be found underground or within the shadow of craters. But I agree that it would be extremely rare to find freshwater. No rivers on the Moon for example. However with terraforming things can change.



The moon would be almost impossible to terraform. Even with late Transhuman era stuff the task would be hurculean. You would first have to make an atmosphere from scratch, as there is no CO2 ice caps there, and very little ice compared to mars. The Moon is also affected far more than Mars by Solar winds, which would be hard to stop with out Galactic Era tech, and even then a challenge. I would be very reticent to add Moon terraforming until the Galactic Era, as it is much more of a technological diffuculty than Mars would be.

Hydromancerx
Feb 03, 2012, 06:48 PM
Well at one point you are making artificial planets and stars, so terraforming the moon would look easy compared to that.

west india man
Feb 04, 2012, 11:41 AM
Those planets at least have atmospheres, though - Even Pluto has more of an atmosphere than the moon.

ls612
Feb 04, 2012, 03:02 PM
Those planets at least have atmospheres, though - Even Pluto has more of an atmosphere than the moon.

Hydro is right, at some point the moon will be terraformable. I'm just thinking ahead and guessing that the moon stuff will be added first, and the Galactic stuff last. This means that the Moon terraforming is less of a priority than Martian terraforming, which could easily be done with Transhuman era tech.

west india man
Feb 04, 2012, 03:16 PM
When would you say the Transhuman Era should end in terms of terraforming technology? It's been predicted that even when humans get the technology to begin terraforming Mars, it will take hundreds of years.

Sgtslick
Feb 04, 2012, 05:19 PM
i have played 100's of smacx mp games. Only just got into civ4 since the smacx crowd on hamachi and stuff fully died. I say just rip it all off SMAC :)

fungus, mind worms, boreholes, echelon mirrors :drool:

asif 2 maps gonna run tho realistically, getting the game to run smoothly on 1 map is hard enough t.t
cool idea tho

Hydromancerx
Feb 04, 2012, 05:25 PM
When would you say the Transhuman Era should end in terms of terraforming technology? It's been predicted that even when humans get the technology to begin terraforming Mars, it will take hundreds of years.

According to the tech tree (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AsdBtytHP7lodDl2a2tIYkVQSjBIRjRSb29YLW9NZ2c&output=html) the start of terraforming would be at Planetary Terraforming (Galactic Era) which could do Mars. If we want I could add another tech after that called Lunar Terraforming that could allow for terraforming on the moon.

west india man
Feb 04, 2012, 05:34 PM
EDIT: Ninja'd. Yeah, that's probably a good idea, but Lunar Terraforming could also lead to terraforming on Europa, Titan, etc.

fungus, mind worms, boreholes, echelon mirrors :drool:

Speaking of which, some elements from the Dune mod would be nice. :)

Hydromancerx
Feb 04, 2012, 05:51 PM
Beyond Mars everything would be generalized in the Final Frontier style map. Thus you will be colonizing whole solar systems at once rather than individual planets, moons or asteroid belts. And even farther out that that you can add your own artificial planets to your conquered solar systems. And even beyond that you will be able to create your own stars to colonize. Thus Creating new places to settle on the Galactic map beyond just the "natural" stars.

There are also wormholes on the map so eventually you can traverse them and ultimately make your own artificial ones. Lastly the space ship to Alpha Centauri will be re-done to be sent to the Andromeda Galaxy instead. Thus winning the space game.

Sgtslick
Feb 04, 2012, 07:22 PM
your quote should definately be BIGGER = BETTER BABY
lol your like a crack fiend when it comes to additional features hydromancerx ;)

Hydromancerx
Feb 04, 2012, 07:47 PM
your quote should definately be BIGGER = BETTER BABY
lol your like a crack fiend when it comes to additional features hydromancerx ;)

LOL! But seriously if multiple maps are possible theses ideas are quite possible. In fact I see no reason why they could not be on those types of maps in other mods if they have not been done already.

In the Final Frontier mod you regularly colonize entire solar systems at once since they are just cities made to look like solar systems. As for the spaceship being redone, its just a matter of re-naming the parts and giving them different tech requirements. I don't see why we cannot use the same looking spaceship. A different winning video might be a good idea too.

Hydromancerx
Feb 04, 2012, 08:25 PM
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=313037&stc=1&d=1328408733

Here is an example of how the Mars terrain could look using terrain we already have.

Hydromancerx
Feb 04, 2012, 09:05 PM
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=313039&stc=1&d=1328410969

Here is a screenshot from Outpost 1 on a gray moon-like planet. It uses tiles too. Perhaps similar terrain can be made for our lunar terrain.

JosEPh_II
Feb 04, 2012, 09:26 PM
I have to ask! How did you get Outpost to play? Dosbox? (old, old, memories of Outpost and OpII).

JosEPh

Hydromancerx
Feb 04, 2012, 09:38 PM
I have to ask! How did you get Outpost to play? Dosbox? (old, old, memories of Outpost and OpII).

JosEPh

It ran fine on my Win XP. I have had it installed for a very long time and boot it up now and then when I feel nostalgic. I also have Outpost II, but I did not like it as much as Outpost I, so its no longer installed on my computer (through I am sure I could re-install it if i felt like it).

Hankc
Feb 05, 2012, 04:47 AM
In my opinion, the Mars mock-up looks too much like Arrakis (for obvious reasons). I'd suggest having a look at The_J's mod "Mars Now!" for some more mars-like terrain. You might be able to get some lunar terrain from "The Song of the Moon" mod. It went inactive a few years ago, but an attempt to restart it was made a while ago.

Hydromancerx
Feb 05, 2012, 05:05 AM
In my opinion, the Mars mock-up looks too much like Arrakis (for obvious reasons). I'd suggest having a look at The_J's mod "Mars Now!" for some more mars-like terrain. You might be able to get some lunar terrain from "The Song of the Moon" mod. It went inactive a few years ago, but an attempt to restart it was made a while ago.

Thanks for the tips. I will look into those. We will probably have to use all unique terrains anyways to represent the harsh environments and in the case of the moon, noticeably lower gravity.

EDIT: Looking at the terrain in "Mars Now!" I think the Mars Soil, Plains and Peak could be useable. However they are kinda bright. Perhaps we should make our own.

Hydromancerx
Feb 05, 2012, 11:40 PM
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=313115&stc=1&d=1328506766

Song of the Moon 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=379478) seems to have a lot of usable stuff. Here are some things I think we should use. Many of them will need to be re-named and their stats changed, but the graphics look like they are very useable.

west india man
Feb 06, 2012, 01:47 AM
Surely the craters should have the middle of them actually go down into the ground instead of staying level with it? :p

Hydromancerx
Feb 06, 2012, 01:49 AM
Surely the craters should have the middle of them actually go down into the ground instead of staying level with it? :p

I did not make them, nor do I know how to change them. We got to work with what we have available graphics wise.

Koshling
Feb 06, 2012, 07:38 AM
Surely the craters should have the middle of them actually go down into the ground instead of staying level with it? :p

Actually yes and no. Craters are formed by impact, which melts the rock at the impact point, causing material to be ejected and flow outwards, which builds up the crater rim, as well as depressing the impact area. So typically you see raised rim and depressed centre.

Dancing Hoskuld
Feb 06, 2012, 11:07 PM
Change teh colour of the crater and we have a better replacement for the one we have in C2C now.

Civ Fuehrer
Feb 08, 2012, 01:42 AM
For the '?' poop crystals, you could retexture the resource into a glowing turquoise color (33ff99). Then you could use it as a new crystalline in conjunction with the 'moon crystals' to get some crazy future-tech scenarios. Since crystals are known in applied physics for their extraordinary attributes, we could use this to our advantage and make them required for some things.

Some crystals can perfectly divide images, others grow/shrink with exposure to electricity and some even change shape when heated. The possibilities are endless with optronics, radiation redirection or even neutrino manipulation.

Hydromancerx
Feb 08, 2012, 02:11 AM
Glad your still around Civ Fuehrer, those are some awesome ideas.

Hydromancerx
Feb 12, 2012, 10:26 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Can you add the following new terrains, terrain features and resources from Song of the Moon 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=379478) and Mars Now! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=312246). Note that these would not be terrains or features that generate on the map yet (except for the Earth ones). Just in preparation for the multi-maps.

New Terrain

Lunar Desert
Graphic: White Dust from SM2
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -3
Defense: -25%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% to Build
Cities: Requires: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Lunar Dunes
Graphic: Dust Waste from SM2
Dunes
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -4
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +50% to Build
Cities: Yes
Terrain Damage: Yes

Lunar Barren
Graphic: Bare Rock from SM2
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% Time to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Lunar Plains
Graphic: Dust Plains from SM2
Food: 0
Production: 1
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Lunar Basalt
Graphic: Maria Basalt from SM2
Food: 0
Production: 1
Commerce: 0
Movement: -1
Defense: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Lunar Rocky
Graphic: Rugged from SM2
Food: 0
Production: 1
Commerce: 0
Movement: -2
Defense: +25%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0%
Improvements: +25% to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Lunar Peak
Graphic: Peak from SM2
Info: Same as Normal Peaks (Impassable until Mountaineering)
Freshwater: No
Terrain Damage: Yes

-----

Martian Ice
Graphic: Ice from C2C
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -4
Defense: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +75% Time to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Martian Permafrost
Graphic: Permafrost from C2C
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -3
Defense: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +50% Time to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Martian Desert
Graphic: Desert from C2C
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -3
Defense: -25%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% to Build
Cities: Requires: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Martian Dunes
Graphic: Dunes from C2C
Dunes
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -4
Defense: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +50% to Build
Cities: Yes
Terrain Damage: Yes

Martian Barren
Graphic: Mars-Soil from MN
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% Time to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Martian Plains
Graphic: Plains from MN
Food: 0
Production: 1
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Martian Rocky
Graphic: Scrub from C2C
Food: 0
Production: 1
Commerce: 0
Movement: -2
Defense: +25%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0%
Improvements: +25% to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Martian Peak
Graphic: Peak from MN
Info: Same as Normal Peaks (Impassable until Mountaineering)
Freshwater: No
Terrain Damage: Yes

New Terrain Features

Small Crater
Appears On: Moon
Graphic: Small Crater from SM2
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: Impassable
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Medium Crater
Appears On: Moon
Graphic: Medium Crater from SM2
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: Impassable
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Large Crater
Appears On: Moon
Graphic: Large Crater from SM2
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: Impassable
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Crashes Probe
Appears On: Moon / Mars
Graphic: Crashes Spaceship from MN
Food: 0
Production: 3
Commerce: 2
Movement: -1
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: ?
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Hot Springs
Appears On: Earth
Graphic: Methanehydrate from MN
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: Impassable
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: +1
Improvements: ?
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

New Resources

Helium 3
Revealed: Astrogeology
Enabled: Astrogeology
Graphic: Helium from SM2
Benefit: +1 :hammers:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Moon
Rarity: Rare

Moon Rocks
Revealed: Lunar Exploration
Enabled: Astrogeology
Graphic: Granite Rocks from SM2
Benefit: +1 :commerce:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Moon
Rarity: Very Common

Mars Rocks
Revealed: Planetary Exploration
Enabled: Astrogeology
Graphic: Carbon from SM2
Benefit: +1 :commerce:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Mars
Rarity: Very Common

H2O Ice
Revealed: Lunar Exploration
Enabled: Astrogeology
Graphic: Water Ice from SM2
Benefit: +2 :health:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Moon / Mars
Rarity: Rare / Common (At Poles)

CO2 Ice
Revealed: Lunar Exploration
Enabled: Astrogeology
Graphic: CO2 Ice from SM2
Benefit: +1 :health:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Moon / Mars
Rarity: Very Rare / Rare (At Poles)

Tungsten
Revealed: Geology
Enabled: Electricity
Graphic: Tungsten from SM2
Benefit: +2 :hammers:, +1 :commerce:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Earth / Moon / Mars
Rarity: Rare

Geodes
Revealed: Geology
Enabled: Geology
Graphic: Geode Crystal from SM2
Benefit: +2 :commerce:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Earth / Moon / Mars
Rarity: Rare

Quantonium Crystal
Revealed: Nanomining
Enabled: Optronics
Graphic: Moon Crystal from SM2
Benefit: +5 :commerce:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Not Sure Yet
Rarity: Super Rare

Geothermal Sea Vent
Revealed: Deep Sea Exploration
Enabled: Volcanology
Graphic: Black Smoker from MN
Benefit: +1 :hammers:, +1 :commerce:
Improvement: Offshore Platform
Appears On: Earth (Deep Ocean)
Rarity: Rare

Natural Gas
Revealed: Scientific Method
Enabled: Refining
Graphic: Gas from MN
Benefit: +2 :hammers:, +1 :commerce:
Improvement: Well / Offshore Platform
Appears On: Earth (Land and Sea)
Rarity: Common

Mushroom
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Herbology
Graphic: Mushroom from MN
Benefit: +1 :food:, +1 :commerce:
Improvement: Farm
Appears On: Earth
Rarity: Common

Dancing Hoskuld
Feb 12, 2012, 11:08 PM
@Hydro I a in the middle of changing the ocean terrains at the moment so I wont get to these for awhile.

Hydromancerx
Feb 13, 2012, 12:06 AM
@Hydro I a in the middle of changing the ocean terrains at the moment so I wont get to these for awhile.

Can you at least do the Mushroom, Natural Gas, Tungsten, Geodes and Geothermal Sea Vents? Those are resources that are for Earth and not the Moon or Mars.

Hydromancerx
Feb 24, 2012, 01:36 AM
Do you guys think there should be an underground map for Mars and the Moon, or is that too much?

johny smith
Feb 24, 2012, 01:00 PM
I will just ask this. No clue if it has been discussed already. Why Mars and the moon only? What about floating cities on Venus where it is not to hot. The basic idea is to mine the atmosphere for gasses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus#Aerostat_habitats_and_floati ng_cities

Other ideas could be Mercury for solar energy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Mercury

I don't think Lagrange points could be done, but basically you could build like a mini planet possible

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_Point_Colonization

The gas giants themselves are possible, but would have to float as well.

And there is Titan possibly as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Titan

Anyway just figured I would throw it out there. There are plenty of other candidates. The one thing I know is the moon itself was being looked at a cheaper launching pad because the weaker gravity. So anyway I could see characteristics of planets affecting a cost of launching by representing a delay time of getting off the planet back to space. If this is not the brainstorm section I am sorry.

Hydromancerx
Feb 24, 2012, 04:05 PM
I will just ask this. No clue if it has been discussed already. Why Mars and the moon only? What about floating cities on Venus where it is not to hot. The basic idea is to mine the atmosphere for gasses.


Mainly because I was not sure how performance would go if we added more maps. Also I figure by the time you can get to the Galactic map that you will be colonizing inner planets and Jovian moons in mass rather than having to take your time like with the moon and Mars. In other words, colonization of the other bodies of our solar system should seem easy technology wise by then.

Thus on say the Galactic map we could represent it as wonders or something. Like "Venus Colony" or "Europa Colony". Because we don't want to have to make a map for every possible colonizable things in space. In fact before we realized we could have more than 2 maps I was planning on having it just the Earth map and the Galactic map.

Having a Lunar and Martian map give a better transition from the Earth map to the Galactic map. That's not to say we could not also add other planet and moons in our solar system later, but for now its not a planned feature to have.

mcookie83
Feb 24, 2012, 04:27 PM
Do you guys think there should be an underground map for Mars and the Moon, or is that too much?

I think it's rather logical, cause I can imagine having underground/underwater (?) cities on other planets and even moons; anything else is quite uncomplete and senseless.

So we have to go for it. :D

EDIT:

But the best way is to have this option (underwater/underground cities) on the same map - if that is possible. :)

Hydromancerx
Feb 24, 2012, 04:45 PM
Regarding the Galactic Era multiple maps question:
I just thought of "Fake Cities" as possible entrances to other layers of city screen UI (ak sun system, galaxy etc. in "other city screen buiildings could be built, they would somehow overlay with enemy systems there... could it be possible to move units while in city screen / portal to other maplayer?

Ok just to explain what I mean, here's an example:

Imagine you can build a unit like a settler, just called "galaxy portal", make it erect a portal somewhere on normal earth map. Once you klick onto it you get other building possibilities than on earth and the map screen isn't the normal earth map but some other sort of map thats encoded in the changed city screens settings (the idea came to me when I zoomed in a city and saw how the middle view was sort of blacked out a bit, that it could maybe be exchanged by other code)

Then is the big question how units in this "portal map" could move and interact with other civs second layer map city portals and so on (like can there be a city screen UI within a a city screen UI - to zoom into a city on mars for example) but that's maybe a question for another day, so to make a long story short^^:

Could the city screen UI be modified to show another map in its center than the one we see when we zoom into a city, and can it maybe be possible to move certain units while in city screen UI?

I was actually thinking of having your Capital or a Spaceport Wonder be the spot in which your units return to when going to the Earth map. Likewise an initial landing spot would be where all your units go for the moon and mars and for the Galactic Map all would start at "Sol".

Alternatively we could just have a popup menu that allows you to select which city or colony you want to go.

So something like you can only initially go to the moon or Mars from a city with a spaceport (or NASA). When on the city you get a button that says "Launch" and then it brings up a list of possible colonies you can go to. Each would take a different number of turns to arrive at.

When you are first going to the moon or Mars you will arrive at a random location. And until you have set up a spaceport on either the moon or Mars you will not beable to arrive directly at on of their colonies.

The Galactic map however always has you start out at Sol. Sol cannot be claimed, however other star systems can. When leaving out solar system you will select that from the launch menu. However rather than getting a free ride to another star you must actually travel across space to your other colonies. However I suspect it will at least take some turns initially to go from either Earth, the moon or Mars to the Galactic map.

Thus your propulsion method is important for reducing launch times and movement on the Galactic map.

Hydromancerx
Feb 28, 2012, 08:22 PM
@DH

Please help add these terrains (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11258229&postcount=34). They will be needed for the multi-maps. In fact LyTning said the code for the multi-maps would be coming soon.

Wow, nice to see my work is appreciated! Modcomp coming soon! :D

DRJ
Feb 28, 2012, 09:29 PM
LyTning said the code for the multi-maps would be coming soon.

:goodjob::clap::hatsoff::woohoo::cooool::yeah: :salute::banana::bounce::cheers::high5::popcorn: :band:

Hydromancerx
Apr 04, 2012, 02:35 PM
:bump:

Bumping since the multi-maps are out.

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 19, 2012, 09:13 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

New Resources

CO2 Ice
Revealed: Lunar Exploration
Enabled: Astrogeology
Graphic: CO2 Ice from SM2
Benefit: +1 :health:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Moon / Mars
Rarity: Very Rare / Rare (At Poles)

Tungsten
Revealed: Geology
Enabled: Electricity
Graphic: CO2 Ice from SM2
Benefit: +2 :hammers:, +1 :commerce:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Earth / Moon / Mars
Rarity: Rare

These two have the same graphic. I assume this is a mistake. Since I am doing stuff with resources and improvements, I figured that I could at least check out what it is you wanted and start collecting the bits.

Edit I think I have sorted that out. Some of the resources you have requested are terrain features in the other mod. Sometimes this will work others it wont.

Hydromancerx
Apr 20, 2012, 12:31 AM
This help?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=313115&stc=1&d=1328506766

Also which won't work?

steampunk1880
Apr 20, 2012, 02:27 AM
Question: Is terraforming going to be a thing, at least on Martian soil, or will food exclusively be done with (f) build greenhouse and city buildings? I always thought it was kinda dumb how you could do it tile by tile in the old Civ 2 Mars scenario leaving one square of vivid green in a sea of rusty brown. Even so, having no possibility of terraforming at all would make the builder in me grumble. Could there be some type of really expensive world project that upgrades all "Martian" terrain types to a very slightly greener "Terraformed Martian" terrain type that allows planting of forests or maybe the building of "Intensively Terraformed" plots? Here's my brainstorm: initially on mars all terrain is the basic mars type terrain that gives bupkis food/production/commerce (excluding the ones that give one production). To get anything out of the plots you have to build greenhouse complexes (middling food) or Moholes* (much production, little commerce) or Colony Suburbs (little production, much commerce, grow like towns) After the martian terraforming project is built by anyone it upgrades all mars type terrain to Terraformed Mars type terrain that has just a hint of something growing and the peaks have snow. Terraformed mars type terrain has base 111 or 121 F/P/C and in additon to Moholes and Suburbs you can build Intensively Terraformed (very much food, little commerce) on the plots making it look much greener with little homesteads.

*Moholes are robotic shaft mines that go down to the Mohorovičić discontinuity where the crust transitions to mantle.

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 20, 2012, 03:07 AM
Also which won't work?

Don't know, I haven't tried yet. ;) Granite Rocks and Geode Crystal are both features in SoM so they may not work when converted to resources. As I said I am just gathering the art and converting bonus information at the moment.

BTW I am assuming that The Moon is a stand in for the more generic Barren Airless Rocky Planet and Mars stands for Cold Terrestrial Planet.

Hydromancerx
Apr 20, 2012, 03:55 AM
BTW I am assuming that The Moon is a stand in for the more generic Barren Airless Rocky Planet and Mars stands for Cold Terrestrial Planet.

Yeah. My first goal is to get the Moon, Mars and Galactic maps made. Once those are in then we can work on other types of planets such as Venus-like, Titian-like, Asteroids, etc.

Question: Is terraforming going to be a thing, at least on Martian soil, or will food exclusively be done with (f) build greenhouse and city buildings? I always thought it was kinda dumb how you could do it tile by tile in the old Civ 2 Mars scenario leaving one square of vivid green in a sea of rusty brown. Even so, having no possibility of terraforming at all would make the builder in me grumble. Could there be some type of really expensive world project that upgrades all "Martian" terrain types to a very slightly greener "Terraformed Martian" terrain type that allows planting of forests or maybe the building of "Intensively Terraformed" plots? Here's my brainstorm: initially on mars all terrain is the basic mars type terrain that gives bupkis food/production/commerce (excluding the ones that give one production). To get anything out of the plots you have to build greenhouse complexes (middling food) or Moholes* (much production, little commerce) or Colony Suburbs (little production, much commerce, grow like towns) After the martian terraforming project is built by anyone it upgrades all mars type terrain to Terraformed Mars type terrain that has just a hint of something growing and the peaks have snow. Terraformed mars type terrain has base 111 or 121 F/P/C and in additon to Moholes and Suburbs you can build Intensively Terraformed (very much food, little commerce) on the plots making it look much greener with little homesteads.

*Moholes are robotic shaft mines that go down to the Mohorovičić discontinuity where the crust transitions to mantle.

Planets and moons since they will have their own unique terrains will be harder to terraform. Planetary Terraforming tech will allow for terraforming on planets such as Mars. Lunar Terraforming tech will allow for terraforming on the moon and other barren planets/moons. I may add another type for extreme planets such as Venus once we have that all planned out.

Thus you can eventually convert up alien terrains to Earth type terrain all the way up to lush like you can on Earth. Martian and Lunar terrains start out without food yields but as you convert them to Earth type terrains you can get food yields from them.

Initial colonies will need to depend upon buildings (such as agrodomes) within the colony in order to get food. There will also be terrain improvements that can give food yields.

There will not be "land ocean" because eventually you will able to make your own oceans. If all goes will with the climate/weather stuff it should be possible to aplly it to planet/lunar maps too. So you could help do mass terraforming by influencing the weather of your planet (think Sim Earth).

And yes there will be cottage/farm/factory/mine equivalents for the planets/moons. Mars Now, Song of the Moon 2, Dune Wars and SMAC mods all have graphics for that kind of stuff. Its just a matter of converting them.

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 20, 2012, 07:29 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

New Terrain Features

Crashes Probe
Appears On: Moon / Mars
Graphic: Crashes Spaceship from MN
Food: 0
Production: 3
Commerce: 2
Movement: -1
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: ?
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Can't find this one in Mars Now!

Hot Springs
Appears On: Earth
Graphic: Methanehydrate from MN
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: Impassable
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: +1
Improvements: ?
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

This is a resource in Mars Now not a feature.

New Resources

Moon Rocks
Revealed: Lunar Exploration
Enabled: Astrogeology
Graphic: Granite Rocks from SM2
Benefit: +1 :commerce:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Moon
Rarity: Very Common

Geodes
Revealed: Geology
Enabled: Geology
Graphic: Geode Crystal from SM2
Benefit: +2 :commerce:
Improvement: Mine
Appears On: Earth / Moon / Mars
Rarity: Rare

These are features in Song of the Moon 2 not resources.

It may be possible to convert resources into features and vice versa but do we need to?

I now have all but the above converted to C2C but not usable.

Hydromancerx
Apr 20, 2012, 07:47 PM
1. Should be their Goody Hut.

2. Yes I know but could you make Methanehydrate into Hot Springs a feature like you did when you changed Oil into Tarpits?

3. I would rather have these as resources so you can trade geodes and moon rocks. Same goes for Prickly Pear Cactus and Dates that are already in our mod.

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 21, 2012, 06:07 PM
I can't convert the terrains until we have a way of indication to the map scripts which terrains they should use. Otherwise some may just mix in Earth, Moon and Mars terrains on the same maps.

1. Should be their Goody Hut.

2. Yes I know but could you make Methanehydrate into Hot Springs a feature like you did when you changed Oil into Tarpits?

3. I would rather have these as resources so you can trade geodes and moon rocks. Same goes for Prickly Pear Cactus and Dates that are already in our mod.

1-2 OK I'll give it a try.

3. Converting features into resources sometimes does not work because the graphics won't work.

3a. converting existing C2C features, like dates, into resources will break save games, unless we have both for a while.

Hydromancerx
Apr 21, 2012, 06:38 PM
0. Can't you set it like the polluted water terrain where it won't show up upon map creation?

1-2. Yay!

3. Well it cannot hurt to try.

3a. Then do both so I can convert over my city vicinity buildings such as the Date Farm building.

Hydromancerx
Apr 23, 2012, 03:25 AM
@Dancing Hoskuld

So I was checking out your new resources and I found 3 things ...

1. Could you make the mushrooms half the size?

2. Tungsten is missing it texture.

3. Water Ice is a big red blob.

The rest look great.

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 23, 2012, 05:11 AM
@Dancing Hoskuld

So I was checking out your new resources and I found 3 things ...

1. Could you make the mushrooms half the size?

2. Tungsten is missing it texture.

3. Water Ice is a big red blob.

The rest look great.

Should now be fixed on the SVN.

Hydromancerx
Apr 27, 2012, 07:23 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Can you please make the Moon Rocks and Geodes a resource and not a terrain feature? I cannot add them as a benefit to the geology lab if they are a terrain feature.

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 27, 2012, 09:12 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Can you please make the Moon Rocks and Geodes a resource and not a terrain feature? I cannot add them as a benefit to the geology lab if they are a terrain feature.

Don't know when I will get to this. It is on my list. I am only doing stuff that requires small steps due to RL and I may have to go away for a couple of weeks at the drop of a hat.

Hydromancerx
Apr 27, 2012, 10:33 PM
Ok. No problem. Thanks.

Hydromancerx
May 05, 2012, 03:24 AM
:bump:

Necratoid
May 14, 2012, 08:18 PM
Terraforming the moon is a dumb idea... that would involve altering its effective mass/gravity to closer to Earth's. Playing with the moon's gravity level is a good way to cause massive city killing storms and the like... not to mention other 'fun' like people going insane from the wonky effects on all those intelligent bags of thinking meat and saline.

Speaking of 'fun... lunar developemnt should be handled more like Dwarf Fortress. Go underground and build in the sane way. None of this madness with changing the reflectivity of the moon and hoping it doesn't dim the Earth and cause mass extinctions of plant life from the combination of changed light levels and tidal nonsense. Not mention any issues from heating up a place as close as the local moon to above freezing.

In short, terraforming the moon is likely to negatively terraform your homeland.

If you want to screw with moons go pick on the local equivalents of Phobos and Demios that way local Mars can be more local Earth like.

ls612
May 14, 2012, 08:33 PM
@Necratoid: I understand the technical reasons that the moon would be very hard to terraform, but by te end of the Galaxtic Era you are going to have a pretty advanced Type II, if not Type III, civilization that can build planets and send a craft through the Galactic Black Hole (that will be the new 'space victory'). Terraforming the Moon would be peanuts for such an advanced civ.

Il Principe
May 17, 2012, 01:28 AM
@Necratoid: I understand the technical reasons that the moon would be very hard to terraform, but by te end of the Galaxtic Era you are going to have a pretty advanced Type II, if not Type III, civilization that can build planets and send a craft through the Galactic Black Hole (that will be the new 'space victory'). Terraforming the Moon would be peanuts for such an advanced civ.

True..but it should come pretty late. Because terraforming somehing that just canīt hold an atmosphere on itīs own like the moon should be hard.
For Mars itīs more about changing the composition, and maybe uppen the densisty a bit.

ls612
May 17, 2012, 05:33 PM
True..but it should come pretty late. Because terraforming somehing that just canīt hold an atmosphere on itīs own like the moon should be hard.
For Mars itīs more about changing the composition, and maybe uppen the densisty a bit.

Yes, when we first discussed multi maps (many months ago), I said that the Moon should not be terraformable until the Galactic Era. This is all subject to change, so don't get too worried yet. :)

Necratoid
May 18, 2012, 12:09 AM
Its not a matter of can really.. its a matter of should. By the time they can its not really a useful thing to do and the infrastrcture is already there. Remember that was in response to the tile set the moon should have as a map. I feel it should be more of improvements being underground than would be on a large heavenly body.

This also ignores that people are going to be unlikely to want to change the looks of the moon... Its the moon! It should look like a rock. If they do its likely going to turn it into a upgrade of Mount Rushmore than a forest moon or something.

Il Principe
May 18, 2012, 12:45 AM
This also ignores that people are going to be unlikely to want to change the looks of the moon... Its the moon! It should look like a rock. If they do its likely going to turn it into a upgrade of Mount Rushmore than a forest moon or something.

Hehe. i can actually imagine the protesters marching in front of a futuristic government building, demanding to cancel terraforming of the moon and making it a national preserve instead :D

Hydromancerx
May 18, 2012, 05:14 AM
Hehe. i can actually imagine the protesters marching in front of a futuristic government building, demanding to cancel terraforming of the moon and making it a national preserve instead :D

Same could be said about Mars or any other place in the solar system.

ls612
May 18, 2012, 05:13 PM
Hehe. i can actually imagine the protesters marching in front of a futuristic government building, demanding to cancel terraforming of the moon and making it a national preserve instead :D

And that might be a legitimate option in the Galactic Era. Don't terraform the moon, but instead continue harvesting it's natural resources.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 21, 2012, 03:11 PM
@HydromancerX Kooks like I a going to need buttons for the terrain from "Song of the Moon". It seems to use default Earth terrain buttons.

Edit I am not sure we can have more peak and hill definitions. I think we can have only one of each, but I could be wrong.
Still to add terain damage but want to test it now. ;)

Hydromancerx
May 21, 2012, 05:20 PM
@HydromancerX Kooks like I a going to need buttons for the terrain from "Song of the Moon". It seems to use default Earth terrain buttons.

Edit I am not sure we can have more peak and hill definitions. I think we can have only one of each, but I could be wrong.
Still to add terain damage but want to test it now. ;)

1. Ok I will get on it.

2. Well by the time you explore the moon (and Mars) you will have long since discovered Mountaineering tech. I suggest you make the barren peaks terrain features instead. Just like you have all the outcrops from Dune Wars.

Hydromancerx
May 21, 2012, 05:35 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Here are the icon/buttons for the Lunar Terrains (and Peak).

Dancing Hoskuld
May 21, 2012, 07:48 PM
Ah well, some work and some don't. I will need to do some more work. Some even replace the tile next to them with water. :(

Hydromancerx
May 21, 2012, 10:02 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld
Looks like its the same problem you had before with the order of the terrain and having the polluted ocean and coast terrain showing up. Make sure you put them before those.

See this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10864990&postcount=128) having the same problem with you added in the Dune Wars terrain.

Ok I fixed terrain stats and added a new barren terrain button.

However the new terrain button is not showing up. Could someone go look at the new files on the SVN and see why the barren button is still the plains button?

EDIT: Something is very wrong with the terrain. I was trying to place terrain and they were all mixed up.

For instance ...

Lush = Appeared as Mountains Underwater
Barren = Appeared as Black Water
Rocky = Appeared as Green Water
Scrub = Appeared as Green Water
Dunes = Appeared as Lush Terrain
Salt Flats = Appeared as Plains
Permafrost = Appeared as Rocky
Muddy = Appeared as Scrub

So yeah they re all screwy. Note this was on a Perfect World map. Note that the changed Desert terrain showed up fine.

From you picture above it looks like ...

Lunar Basalt = Appeared as Mountains Underwater (TERRAIN_PEAK)
Lunar Plains = Appeared as Black Water (TERRAIN_HILL)
Lunar Rocky = Appeared as Green Water (TERRAIN_SLIMY_COAST)
Lunar Barren = Appeared as Green Water (TERRAIN_SLIMY_OCEAN)
Lunar Desert = Appeared as Lunar Basalt
Lunar Dunes = Appeared as Lunar Plains

Dancing Hoskuld
May 21, 2012, 10:43 PM
I know all that, it was just a quick test to make sure nothing broke C2C before I started merging it into the core for real. ;)

Hydromancerx
May 21, 2012, 10:50 PM
Oh ok. Was not sure. I tend to forget things and thought you might have as well.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 21, 2012, 11:37 PM
There is still something wrong with Lunar barren and dunes. :(

I will put what I have done so far on the SVN. Note I need some pedia entries for these terrains and wont go further until someone provides them or points me to some on the web.:p

Azurian
May 21, 2012, 11:42 PM
There is still something wrong with Lunar barren and dunes. :(

I will put what I have done so far on the SVN. Note I need some pedia entries for these terrains and wont go further until someone provides them or points me to some on the web.:p

list of terrains please..ill take a look at making or finding them

this ones right?

Lunar Basalt
Lunar Plains
Lunar Rocky
Lunar Barren
Lunar Desert
Lunar Dunes

Dancing Hoskuld
May 21, 2012, 11:45 PM
list of terrains please..ill take a look at making or finding them

There are six

Lunar Basalt - I have something simple for this from Wikipedia
Lunar Plains
Lunar Rocky
Lunar Barren
Lunar Desert
Lunar Dunes

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 12:01 AM
There is still something wrong with Lunar barren and dunes. :(


I think the dunes (aka white dust) are actually the normal snow/ice texture. Not sure if that helps.

The weird cut off I think happened with my Barren terrain when making it. I do not recall how we fixed it though.

Azurian
May 22, 2012, 12:07 AM
I am using scientific terminology

The geology of the Moon (sometimes called selenology, although the latter term can refer more generally to "lunar science") is quite different from that of the Earth. The Moon lacks a significant atmosphere and any bodies of water, which eliminates erosion due to weather; it does not possess any form of plate tectonics, it has a lower gravity, and because of its small size, it cools more rapidly. The complex geomorphology of the lunar surface has been formed by a combination of processes, chief among which are impact cratering and volcanism. The Moon is a differentiated body, possessing a crust, mantle and core.

Lunar basalts
Lunar basalts differ from their terrestrial counterparts principally in their high iron contents, which typically range from about 17 to 22 wt% FeO. They also possess a stunning range of titanium concentrations (present in the mineral ilmenite), ranging from less than 1 wt% TiO2, to about 13 wt.%. Traditionally, lunar basalts have been classified according to their titanium content, with classes being named high-Ti, low-Ti, and very-low-Ti. Nevertheless, global geochemical maps of titanium obtained from the Clementine mission demonstrate that the lunar maria possesses a continuum of titanium concentrations, and that the highest concentrations are the least abundant.

Lunar basalts show exotic textures and mineralogy, particularly shock metamorphism, lack of the oxidation typical of terrestrial basalts, and a complete lack of hydration. While most of the Moon's basalts erupted between about 3 and 3.5 billion years ago, the oldest samples are 4.2 billion years old, and the youngest flows, based on the age dating method of "crater counting," are estimated to have erupted only 1.2 billion years ago.


Rename Lunar Plains to Lunar Maria
The lunar maria /ˈmɑriə/ (singular: mare ) are large, dark, basaltic plains on Earth's Moon, formed by ancient volcanic eruptions. They were dubbed maria, Latin for "seas", by early astronomers who mistook them for actual seas. They are less reflective than the "highlands" as a result of their iron-rich compositions, and hence appear dark to the naked eye. The maria cover about 16 percent of the lunar surface, mostly on the near-side visible from Earth. The few maria on the far-side are much smaller, residing mostly in very large craters. The traditional nomenclature for the Moon also includes one oceanus (ocean), as well as features with the names lacus (lake), palus (marsh) and sinus (bay). The latter three are smaller than maria, but have the same nature and characteristics
Lunar anorthosites constitute the light-coloured areas of the Moon's surface and have been the subject of much research.


Rename Moon Rocky to Lunar Highlands

The most distinctive aspect of the Moon is the contrast between its bright and dark zones. Lighter surfaces are the lunar highlands, which receive the name of terrae (singular terra, from the Latin for Earth), and the darker plains are called maria (singular mare, from the Latin for sea), after Johannes Kepler who introduced the name in the 17th century. The highlands are anorthositic in composition, whereas the maria are basaltic. The maria often coincide with the "lowlands," but it is important to note that the lowlands (such as within the South Pole-Aitken basin) are not always covered by maria. The highlands are older than the visible maria, and hence are more heavily cratered.



Rename moon barren to Lunar Regolith

The surface of the Moon has been subject to billions of years of collisions with both small and large asteroidal and cometary materials. Over time, these impact processes have pulverized and "gardened" the surface materials, forming a fine grained layer termed "regolith". The thickness of the regolith varies between 2 meters beneath the younger maria, to up to 20 meters beneath the oldest surfaces of the lunar highlands. The regolith is predominantly composed of materials found in the region, but also contains traces of materials ejected by distant impact craters. The term "mega-regolith" is often used to describe the heavily fractured bedrock directly beneath the near-surface regolith layer.

The regolith contains rocks, fragments of minerals from the original bedrock, and glassy particles formed during the impacts. In most of the lunar regolith, half of the particles are made of mineral fragments fused by the glassy particles; these objects are called agglutinates. The chemical composition of the regolith varies according to its location; the regolith in the highlands is rich in aluminium and silica, just as the rocks in those regions. The regolith in the maria is rich in iron and magnesium and is silica-poor, as the basaltic rocks from which it is formed.

The lunar regolith is very important because it also stores information about the history of the Sun. The atoms that compose the solar wind – mostly helium, neon, carbon and nitrogen – hit the lunar surface and insert themselves into the mineral grains. Upon analyzing the composition of the regolith, particularly its isotopic composition, it is possible to determine if the activity of the Sun has changed with time. The gases of the solar wind could be useful for future lunar bases, since oxygen, hydrogen (water), carbon and nitrogen are not only essential to sustain life, but are also potentially very useful in the production of fuel. The composition of the lunar regolith can also be used to infer its source origin.


Rename Lunar Desert to Lunar Rilles

Rille (German for 'groove') is typically used to describe any of the long, narrow depressions in the lunar surface that resemble channels. Typically a rille can be up to several kilometers wide and hundreds of kilometers in length. However, the term has also been used loosely to describe similar structures on a number of planets in the Solar System, including Mars, Venus, and on a number of moons. All bear a structural resemblance to each other.

Rilles on the Moon sometimes resulted from the formation of localized lava channels. These generally fall into three categories, consisting of sinuous, arcuate, or linear shapes. By following these meandering rilles back to their source, they often lead to an old volcanic vent. One of the most notable sinuous rilles is the Vallis Schröteri feature, located in the Aristarchus plateau along the eastern edge of Oceanus Procellarum. An example of a sinuous rille exists at the Apollo 15 landing site, Rima Hadley, located on the rim of the Imbrium Basin. Based on observations from the mission, it is generally believed that this rille was formed by volcanic processes, a topic long debated before the mission took place.


Hydro said this is normal snow/ ice texture
Rename Moon Dunes to Lunar Ridges
Wrinkle ridges are features created by compressive tectonic forces within the maria. These features represent buckling of the surface and form long ridges across parts of the maria. Some of these ridges may outline buried craters or other features beneath the maria. A prime example of such an outlined feature is the crater Letronne.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 12:12 AM
Gah! Some of them had those names (one anyway) but I changed them because Hydro used those names. Bah Humbug.

Azurian
May 22, 2012, 12:15 AM
Gah! Some of them had those names (one anyway) but I changed them because Hydro used those names. Bah Humbug.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: I say keep those names, it make the moon sound more exotic and "alien" and it is the scientific term. What we call a desert isnt a desert on the moon. Earth geology is way different than lunar geology lol!

Azurian
May 22, 2012, 12:29 AM
look what i found:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/moonbuttons_u5Q.png

This is a file containing 13 dds made for the Song of the moon : rebirth Mod.
I'm not sure if it is made for civics or for techs so I will let others choose their destination. I just hope they will be usefull.


LINK:http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4666

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 12:38 AM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: I say keep those names, it make the moon sound more exotic and "alien" and it is the scientific term. What we call a desert isnt a desert on the moon. Earth geology is way different than lunar geology lol!

We still need to keep them all even the Lunar Dunes/Ridges one because that is the name we will be using to place the features and resources on.

Edit I think I may have figured out why the dunes one is not working at all. It used the default coast textures and C2C no longer has those. => I will have to copy them from Song of the Moon and rename them. ;)

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 12:41 AM
@MrAzure

Thanks for the buttons. Saves me some work.

@Dancing Hoskuld
Please keep the names I gave them so they match the Earth terrains. I already changed their named from the Song of the Moon 2 names.

SotM2/Hydro/MrAzure
White Dust / Lunar Dunes / Lunar Ridges
Bare Rock / Lunar Barren / Lunar Regolith
Mara Basalt / Lunar Basalt / Lunar Basalts
Dust Plains / Lunar Plains / Lunar Maria
Rugged / Lunar Rocky / Lunar Highlands
Dust Waste / Lunar Desert / Lunar Rilles

On reason I don't like MrAzure's is the fact all these can be given hills so Lunar Highlands or Lunar Ridges makes no sense without hills.

EDIT: It also helps keep track of the terrain types ...

Earth/Moon/Mars
Salt Flats / - / -
Dunes / Lunar Dunes / Martian Dunes
Desert / Lunar Desert / Martian Desert
Scrub / - / - /
Rocky / Lunar Rocky / Martian Rocky
- / Lunar Basalt / -
Barren / Lunar Barren / Martian Barren
Plains / Lunar Plains / Martian Plains
Grassland / - / -
Lush / - / -
Muddy / - / -
Marsh / - / -
Tundra / - / -
Permafrost / - / Martian Permafrost
Ice / - / Martian Ice
Peak / Lunar Peak / Martian Peak

Azurian
May 22, 2012, 12:58 AM
@MrAzure

Thanks for the buttons. Saves me some work.

@Dancing Hoskuld
Please keep the names I gave them so they match the Earth terrains. I already changed their named from the Song of the Moon 2 names.

SotM2/Hydro/MrAzure
White Dust / Lunar Dunes / Lunar Ridges
Bare Rock / Lunar Barren / Lunar Regolith
Mara Basalt / Lunar Basalt / Lunar Basalts
Dust Plains / Lunar Plains / Lunar Maria
Rugged / Lunar Rocky / Lunar Highlands
Dust Waste / Lunar Desert / Lunar Rilles

On reason I don't like MrAzure's is the fact all these can be given hills so Lunar Highlands or Lunar Ridges makes no sense without hills.

Hmmmmmm..I actually like the Hydro line the best, its simple and the most recognizable and u can mod it around with it more.


By the way are we going to be adding units from song of the moon 2?

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 01:03 AM
To late I have renamed them and I am not going back! Also desert means no rain which does not happen on any terrain on the moon and dunes imply wind or sea.

I was wrong about the dunes/Ridges problem:( They are about to go up on the SVN as is. Then I can look at them again later.

Azurian
May 22, 2012, 01:12 AM
cool...looks like space terrain is gonna come soon

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 01:14 AM
To late I have renamed them and I am not going back! Also desert means no rain which does not happen on any terrain on the moon and dunes imply wind or sea.

I was wrong about the dunes/Ridges problem:( They are about to go up on the SVN as is. Then I can look at them again later.

Pleeeese! Please name the the way i had them and not MrAzure's way. Even he agrees with me now. Plus no offense to MrAzure, but you are always complaining about me doing things out of compulsion and now you change to his.

Even if you don't chnage it yourself I will go in there and chnage them myself on the SVN. :p I did not plan them all out to have them changed at the last second.

Sorry if I sound like controlling perfectionist but this one was kind of important to me. Even the names.

Azurian
May 22, 2012, 01:17 AM
@ hydro
@ DH

OH MY! you guys should take a look at this ASAP!

It includes scripts for 5 different kinds of planets by themselves or with an Earthlike planet nearby in space, for a 5 planet solar system including an earthlike start planet, for a solar system with only hostile non-earthlike planets, for a map with Earth, Mars, and Luna, and for two different kinds of extraterrestrial planets with both habitable and hostile regions. Works on most regular maps too, though Earth2 has been reported to have problems. You must have BtS installed, patched to the relevant version, with all the mods that came with it.



http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7849141&postcount=3

Future mod has solar systems, new textures for moons! And best of all its for bTS 3.19

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 01:17 AM
@ hydro
@ DH

OH MY! you guys should take a look at this ASAP!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7849141&postcount=3

Future mod has solar systems, new textures for moons! And best of all its for bTS 3.19

Yes I know. That's why I want to try to use their map scripts.

:crazyeye: You are diving me crazy MrAzure.:splat: :pat:

Azurian
May 22, 2012, 01:20 AM
Yes I know. That's why I want to try to use their map scripts.

:crazyeye: You are diving me crazy MrAzure.:splat: :pat:

im starting to think you are so far ahead of schedule and have a master plan for space terrains already lol :lol::lol::lol:

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 01:23 AM
Yes, yes I do. And also yes we have plan to use both Song of the Moon and Mars Now units. As well as other scifi units from Dune Wars, Final Fronteer, MOO2 and SMACX mods. See the various Space threads on what we plan to do (use the search button).

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 01:23 AM
Pleeeese! Please name the the way i had them and not MrAzure's way. Even he agrees with me now. Plus no offense to MrAzure, but you are always complaining about me doing things out of compulsion and now you change to his.

Even if you don't chnage it yourself I will go in there and chnage them myself on the SVN. :p I did not plan them all out to have them changed at the last second.

Sorry if I sound like controlling perfectionist but this one was kind of important to me. Even the names.

Since it is only text I have no problem with you doing that. However it will make maintenance harder.

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 01:25 AM
Since it is only text I have no problem with you doing that. However it will make maintenance harder.

You mean the tags are "MrAzure" style? Grrr. :mad:

I specifically named them so they would have easy to track tags. [pissed]

Otherwise would have just left them as the Song of the Moon names.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 01:30 AM
You mean the tags are "MrAzure" style? Grrr. :mad:

I specifically named them so they would have easy to track tags. [pissed]

I had to rename everything anyway, so I went my way which just happened to be MrAzure style. You did not specify what you wanted with the tags. Normally you don't care.

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 01:32 AM
I had to rename everything anyway, so I went my way which just happened to be MrAzure style. You did not specify what you wanted with the tags. Normally you don't care.

That's true that I normally do not care, however I did not think you would chnage them on me either.

How many files do I need to edit to fix the tags? I will do them if I must.

Note that I would like the Martian terrains with the correct names. Just stating that now in case you guys feel the urge to chnage them.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 01:37 AM
That's true that I normally do not care, however I did not think you would chnage them on me either.

How many files do I need to edit to fix the tags? I will do them if I must.

Note that I would like the Martian terrains with the correct names. Just stating that now in case you guys feel the urge to chnage them.

I had to change them because in SoM the TERRAIN_LUNAR_PLAINS tag was just TERRAIN_PLAINS which would have confilcted with our TERRAIN_PLAINS for Earth.

It took me about an hour to do the changes. If you insist I could do them back but I strongly protest having dunes and desert on the moon. Almost but not quite enough for me to take my computer and go back to my own mod.

By the way I need buttons for the mars terrains and probably information on what terrains the lunar features and resources can go. The resources are almost ready but I have not started the features yet.

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 01:57 AM
Too late. I have already edited CIV4TerrainInfos.xml, C2C_Terrain_Addons_CIV4GameText.xml and CIV4ArtDefines.xml and changed their main tags. I did not chnage any graphics names, nor did I change the pedia text (besides the main name).

Thus things like TERRAIN_LUNAR_RILLES is now TERRAIN_LUNAR_DESERT.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 02:03 AM
Too late. I have already edited CIV4TerrainInfos.xml, C2C_Terrain_Addons_CIV4GameText.xml and CIV4ArtDefines.xml and changed their main tags. I did not chnage any graphics names, nor did I change the pedia text (besides the main name).

Thus things like TERRAIN_LUNAR_RILLES is now TERRAIN_LUNAR_DESERT.

Where are the buttons for mars terrain and where (lunar terrains) do you want the lunar features and resources to occur?

Edit Craters are ready to go. Once I know where they can go SoM had them in the Ocean (Desert?) and Coast (Dunes) - the latter is still not working :(

BtW in your spec (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11258229&postcount=34) all the movements are negative but in the XML they are all positive. Positive means slower, so negative means faster is that what you want.

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 02:26 AM
Ok the changed the names and tags of the Lunar terrains on the SVN. Double check to make sure I did not break anything.

Where are the buttons for mars terrain and where (lunar terrains) do you want the lunar features and resources to occur?

Here are the Martian terrain icon/buttons.

I will make a full list of features and resources soon.


Edit Craters are ready to go. Once I know where they can go SoM had them in the Ocean (Desert?) and Coast (Dunes) - the latter is still not working :(


You should not be using the ocean/coast moon terrains. Only land terrains. Same goes for the Martian ones when you get to those. I made sure I picked ones that were land and not oceans/costs made to look like land.


BtW in your spec (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11258229&postcount=34) all the movements are negative but in the XML they are all positive. Positive means slower, so negative means faster is that what you want.

They -4 means takes 4 slower. So I guess invert all my speeds. For instance Lunar Dunes is a -4 so it should be extremely slow to cross. While Lunar plains is a 0 and it should have no penalty to cross.

Azurian
May 22, 2012, 02:42 AM
Ahh nevermind, lets just continue with making C2C a better game, changes were already made, its just names
That's true that I normally do not care, however I did not think you would chnage them on me either.

How many files do I need to edit to fix the tags? I will do them if I must.

Note that I would like the Martian terrains with the correct names. Just stating that now in case you guys feel the urge to chnage them.

Actually i will have to now disagree because the names are incorrect on a scientific basis and a astrogeological textbooks and astrogeologists would disagree.


Well Mars has its own correct astrogeological names too...for examples martian mountains are called Mons and the permafrost are called Sublimes..and its soil is called hematite dust. It has no plains at all..but it has Basins.

From an astrogeology book i have
Soil = hematite dust
peaks = Mons
permafrost= Sublimes
Plains = Basins
Deserts= Streaks
Barren = Aeolis

The reason the names are different is because the geological composition of Luna and Mars are different then Terra.



The moon doesnt have dunes at all, (there is no wind).
The "deserts" are know as mares/maria

Mars doesnt have plains it has basins ( it is not a flat surface varies in elevation and scattered with rocks)

Mars doesnt have permafrost.(.it has no liquid water..solids to gas = Sublimation)

A desert is a landscape or region that receives an extremely low amount of precipitation,
The moon and Mars doesnt have an an extremely low amount of precipitation.

In physical geography, a dune is a hill of sand built either by wind or water flow.
Moon has no wind or water flow.

In geography, a plain is land with relatively low relief, that is flat or gently rolling.
Moon has no flat land,,it has mares/maria


Even thou you have plans to use rocky, desert, dunes..etc is really incorrect and not based on scientific fact.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 02:56 AM
Ok the changed the names and tags of the Lunar terrains on the SVN. Double check to make sure I did not break anything.

Here are the Martian terrain icon/buttons.

I will make a full list of features and resources soon.

Thanks

You should not be using the ocean/coast moon terrains. Only land terrains. Same goes for the Martian ones when you get to those. I made sure I picked ones that were land and not oceans/costs made to look like land.

The SoM ocean = C2C Lunar Desert so the XML had terrain_ocean as valid for craters. I have set them to Desert or Dunes as per SoM converted to C2C

They -4 means takes 4 slower. So I guess invert all my speeds. For instance Lunar Dunes is a -4 so it should be extremely slow to cross. While Lunar plains is a 0 and it should have no penalty to cross.

I assumed that. BtW I put in terrain damage but since I play with that off I don't see it in the hover over so don't know if it is working.

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 03:18 AM
Dancing Hoskuld

Here are the moon features and resources ...

Features
- All Lunar Craters = All Lunar Terrains
- Crashed Probe = All Lunar Terrains

Resources
- Helium 3 = Lunar Barren, Lunar Plains, Lunar Desert, Lunar Dunes
- Moon Rocks = Lunar Barren, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt, Lunar Desert, Lunar Peak
- H2O Ice = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky
- CO2 Ice = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky
- Geodes = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Stone = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Marble = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Tungsten = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Titanium = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Bauxite Ore = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Iron = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Copper = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Tin = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Silver = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Gold = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Platinum = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Lead = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Uranium = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Salt = Lunar Desert, Lunar Barren
- Obsidian = Lunar Basalt
- Sulphur = Lunar Basalt

I am not sure about the various gems (Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires, Jade) or Fine Clay.

Source
http://www.moonminer.com/Lunar_regolith.html

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 05:43 AM
Are you sure it isn't "Crashed Probe"? I still have not found the graphics.

Further testing has something wrong with the normal water terrains.

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 05:51 AM
1. Sorry S and D are next to each other. :hammer2:

2. SO seems pissed that his ocean colors have been changed. (See SVN topic)

3. I think that the crashed ship are the "Goodie Huts" of Mars Now. Check those files.

Hydromancerx
May 22, 2012, 06:14 AM
@Dancing Hoskuld

A few weird things onthe terrain stats I noticed ...

1. Lunar Rocky should not have +1 :food:an +1:commerce: adjacent to rivers. There are no rivers on the Moon.

2. Lunar Barren and Lunar Plains cost 0 movement yet still show up. Other Earth terrains like Barren and Plains have the same 0 movement penalty yet do not list it. Why is it showing up on those the Lunar versions?

3. Lunar Rocky should have +1 Production and +25% Defense.

4. Lunar Basalt should have a movement penalty of 1.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 22, 2012, 08:49 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

A few weird things onthe terrain stats I noticed ...

1. Lunar Rocky should not have +1 :food:an +1:commerce: adjacent to rivers. There are no rivers on the Moon.

2. Lunar Barren and Lunar Plains cost 0 movement yet still show up. Other Earth terrains like Barren and Plains have the same 0 movement penalty yet do not list it. Why is it showing up on those the Lunar versions?

3. Lunar Rocky should have +1 Production and +25% Defense.

4. Lunar Basalt should have a movement penalty of 1.

1. fixed
2. 1 is the normal value on Earth eg barren and Plains
3. already had +1:hammers: but fixed defense
4. changed from 1 to 2 to see if that works.

Dancing Hoskuld

Here are the moon features and resources ...

Features
- All Lunar Craters = All Lunar Terrains
- Crashed Probe = All Lunar Terrains

Resources
- Helium 3 = Lunar Barren, Lunar Plains, Lunar Desert, Lunar Dunes
- Moon Rocks = Lunar Barren, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt, Lunar Desert, Lunar Peak
- H2O Ice = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky
- CO2 Ice = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky
- Geodes = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Stone = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Marble = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Tungsten = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Titanium = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Bauxite Ore = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Iron = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Copper = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Tin = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Silver = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Gold = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Platinum = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Lead = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Uranium = Lunar Peak, Lunar Rocky, Lunar Basalt
- Salt = Lunar Desert, Lunar Barren
- Obsidian = Lunar Basalt
- Sulphur = Lunar Basalt

I am not sure about the various gems (Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires, Jade) or Fine Clay.

Source
http://www.moonminer.com/Lunar_regolith.html

While it is not working I have removed Lunar Dunes. Diamonds are just coal compressed so I would not have thought they would be available there. Although it is possible for oil like stuff to arise from c-type asteroid colisions so maybe.

I'll add to SVN when I have all the bonuses set up.

Hydromancerx
May 23, 2012, 12:31 AM
@Dancing Hoskuld

A few things ...

1. Lunar Rocky should be like normal Rocky in that mines can be built on them.

2. So I made a new game on a duel sized map and set it at Galactic Era. I then went into world builder and erased everything and only left Lunar Barren. I founded 3 cities with my starter units and went into a non-Palace city to see what I can build. Which are ...

- Power Lines
- Percussion Instrument Maker
- Apiary
- Barracks
- Dog Breeder
- Modern Granary
- School of Rhetoric
- Counter's Hut
- Garrison
- Veterinarian
- Anti-Missile Batteries

So to make it so if you found a city on the moon I wanted to have some buildings just not show up because of city vicinity, resources not connected, not correct terrain, no power or no coast/river, etc.

- Power Lines = Seems appropriate to build in a lunar colony.
- Percussion Instrument Maker = Seems kind of weird. perhaps an Instrument Factory could be made that requires electricity.
- Apiary = Ok now this is not good. Can a building require an improvement such as Farm or Plantation?
- Barracks = Ok this sounds fine. have a Military Moon base.
- Dog Breeder = I guess dogs could come into space. There can still be police dogs in space. nd people would want pets.
- Modern Granary = Hmm, maybe just have the granaries require grain resource. Or the modern one require electricity.
- School of Rhetoric = Not sure about this one.
- Counter's Hut = Ok I need some upgrades for this line.
- Garrison = Same as Barracks.
- Veterinarian = This is easy to fix in making it require a Dog or Cat Breeder.
- Anti-Missile Batteries = Got to protect your moon base so sounds good.

Note this was a size 5 city and I am sure a ton more building will show up.

So I am thinking if we are going to have Moon or Mars bases that we should have a pseudo-city first. One that you can only ship modular buildings to. Then once it has the basics (air, water, sanitation, electricity, etc) then it can be upgraded into a normal city.

Can this be done through a Nomad Camp style unit/improvement? IF so then all we would need are special cargo lander units that can build a series of buildings.

What do you think?

Dancing Hoskuld
May 23, 2012, 02:44 AM
What do you think?

I think getting a call from your doctor saying come and see him now. Is not good for your concentration. Luckily it is not bad either, I just may wake up one morning and need emergency minor surgery.:blush:

Hydromancerx
May 23, 2012, 03:08 AM
What? Are you ok DH? :huh:

Dancing Hoskuld
May 23, 2012, 06:32 PM
OK, I can see no point of "Moon Rocks" and "Mars Rocks" being map resources. They are the equivalent of "Rocks from the New World" in the 18th and 19th centuries. The project "First Explorer on the Moon/Mars" should get 6 of them. Each nation that builds the national wonder "Exploration of the Moon/Mars" should get 1 of them. They ones should both obsolete at the tech that allows interstellar travel.

Hydromancerx
May 23, 2012, 07:16 PM
Fine, then turn them into building produced resources I guess. :rolleyes:

orlanth
May 24, 2012, 06:09 PM
Hi there,

Those are nice looking planets, I'm excited to see more space stuff being added to this mod :scan::goodjob:

Feel free to look through Colonization 2071 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=349050) for any Bonus or other graphics you might want to use.

Also, I found that Master of Mana (http://www.masterofmana.com/) has made some new Terrains and reskins of Mana bonuses that would look good as planetary terrain types and minerals respectively.

Hydromancerx
May 28, 2012, 07:53 PM
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=322229&stc=1&d=1338252778

So with Gods of Warfare (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11502800) making planets we could now potentially have things on the solar system scale. Thus ...

Planet/Moon -> Solar System -> Galaxy

Thunderbrd
May 29, 2012, 12:28 AM
Oh yes... that is COOL! Wicked stuff that ;)

Civ Fuehrer
Jun 01, 2012, 04:14 AM
Awesome, but the square layout reminds me too much of minecraft... This is CIV not minecraft. :wallbash:

Hydromancerx
Jun 01, 2012, 04:28 AM
Well we could always make more circular rings by putting them on diagonals. It was just made to show off the planets (which are new). The asteroids and nebula are in Final Frontier mod.

Azurian
Jun 01, 2012, 06:41 PM
Wormholes Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=328114
This is a now defunct modmod for Star Trek that adds a Wormholes system (read on to find out more about it). It is defunct because deanej has merged it with the main Star Trek mod and is now standard as of 4.0.

Therefore, the download has been removed, so as not to confuse people. If you want the source code... (the original source code), please either post that in this thread or PM me.

Otherwise, this thread can be used for discussion about Wormholes, as set up in 4.0.

Original Description:

This is a modmod/modcomp for Star Trek 3.25 that adds Wormholes to the game, allowing instantaneous travel from one random point on the map to another random point on the map, now upgraded to v1.52 (as of 6/1/10), and now included in Star Trek Expanded by apenpaap (as of STE v1.2).

Hydromancerx
Jun 01, 2012, 06:47 PM
Yes that was one of the features i wanted to take from Final Frontier and MOO2 mods. They have like 3 different color wormholes, red, blue and purple I believe that have pre-set locations on the map.

Thunderbrd
Jun 01, 2012, 08:20 PM
Is there any way to get the planets on a Solar System map to actually rotate around the sun turn, moving turn by turn?

Hydromancerx
Jun 01, 2012, 08:43 PM
Is there any way to get the planets on a Solar System map to actually rotate around the sun turn, moving turn by turn?

Well storms appear and then disappear. I suppose through some python and events something could be made, but that is not my area.

Thunderbrd
Jun 01, 2012, 08:55 PM
Now THAT would be really cool because it would add a new dimension to strategic movement on such a map. I suppose we aren't going to have 'cities' on planets so much as each planet is a portal to that planet's map so we don't have to struggle with the base assumptions of the core exe file (makes it very hard for modders to get cities in motion from what I've read...).

Hydromancerx
Jun 01, 2012, 09:11 PM
Yeah there will be different type of "portals" in the game.

Wormholes
On Galactic Maps it will link one location to the other on the same map.

Planets
On the Solar System map planets will be connected to planet maps. How you get off the planet I am not sure yet.

Stars
This is where it gets foggy. For sure there will be a Sol homestar on the Galactic map with will be a portal to the solar system map. As for individual star systems to colonize this will be a bit harder since it it works like Sol then we will need a map for every single planet and moon in their solar system. However by this stage of colonizing other stars I suspect that you will just be able to colonize an entire solar system without actually having to see each map.

Thus we would need at minimum ...

1. Earth Map
2. Moon Map
3. Mars Map
4. Solar System Map
5. Galaxy Map

Azurian
Jun 01, 2012, 09:21 PM
solar system map replave city graphics with planet graphics and galaxy map with stars like in staar ruler and armada 2526 respectfully sorry about grammar damn phone

Thunderbrd
Jun 01, 2012, 10:07 PM
On the Solar System map planets will be connected to planet maps. How you get off the planet I am not sure yet.
This will be simple, I'm sure. It'd just be 'mission' activated. Some units could do it from anywhere but others would have to go to a 'spaceport' like an airport is currently to access the 'lift' mission. The only problem these portal methods would have is that you'd have issues with overlapping potentially enemy units without causing a battle right away.

I'm sure moving off the edge of the solar system map would take you into the galaxy map without problems since it can determine a direction you arrive and any movement INTO the origin solar system would just cause the unit to move into the solar system map from the side it entered. Again, overlaps could still be an issue, just not as much.

I get what you're saying about the Galactic era mapping. It would be ultraultraultraultra cool if each solar system had its own submap with subplanets... but I just can't see the game handling that in any stretch of the imagination without MASSIVE modding to basically phase each turn of the game by closing one game out and opening up another in a routine, all linking to a core savegame file... it'd get really head twisting but would be the ultimate game experience imo. Multiple maps wouldn't be enough to get the game to handle it based on the simple memory usage requirements of the core engine to handle the ai trying to process all of that at once.

If we enforced that one nation completely conquers or unifies all other rivals into one nation before we can leave the Solar System layer, we can really just open up a whole new game at Galactic era that leaves the old maps behind completely and starts us with a 'Galactic Colony' type of city in our Solar System's space, from which we may begin to expand. In this sort of outlook, we would import much previous game info such as tech tree accomplishments etc... and continue into the galactic era on a new mapping concept entirely. That might be the way to go unless we can somehow justify keeping all the previous world development while allowing the rest of the solar systems and planets within to be 'approximated' somehow with a Galactic Colony.

Hydromancerx
Jun 01, 2012, 10:36 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Don't forget about the Martian Terrain here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11258229&postcount=34).

Please add the following Space terrain for the Solar System and Galaxy Maps.

New Terrain

Space
Graphic: Space from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Requires: No
Terrain Damage: No

Notes: Is analogous to Coastal terrain.

Deep Space
Graphic: Space from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Requires: No
Terrain Damage: No

Notes: Is analogous to Ocean terrain.

New Terrain Features

Sun
Appears On: Space
Graphic: Sol from Gods of Warfare
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: Impassable
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Planet (Gas Giant)
Appears On: Space
Graphic: Gas from Gods of Warfare
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 5
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: Yes

Notes: There are 5 types (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Super).

Planet (Terrestrial)
Appears On: Space
Graphic: Terrestrial from Gods of Warfare
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 4
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Notes: There are 3 types (Venus, Earth, Mars).

Planet (Dwarf)
Appears On: Space
Graphic: Dwarf from Gods of Warfare
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 3
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Asteroids
Appears On: Space or Deep Space
Graphic: Asteroids from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 2
Defense: +50% Strength
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Yes
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: Yes

Radiation Cloud
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Radiation from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 1
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: Yes

Super Nova
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Super Nova from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 2
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: Yes

Nebula
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Nebula from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: Impassable
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Black Hole
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Black Hole from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 10
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: Yes

Notes: Not sure what to do with this. Basically it should suck you in and kill you if you get too close.

Wormhole
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Wormhole from MOO2
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 5
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No
Special: Can Teleport Units to Other Wormholes of the Same Color.

Notes: Comes in 3 types (Red, Blue and Purple)

Solar System
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Solar from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 2
Defense: 0
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: Yes
Terrain Damage: No

Notes: This has many types.

-----

Many thanks in advance! :goodjob:

Hydromancerx
Jun 01, 2012, 10:45 PM
This will be simple, I'm sure. It'd just be 'mission' activated. Some units could do it from anywhere but others would have to go to a 'spaceport' like an airport is currently to access the 'lift' mission. The only problem these portal methods would have is that you'd have issues with overlapping potentially enemy units without causing a battle right away.


Yeah, I have though about that and I am not sure what can be done since someone could surround the planet and not let anyone out.


I'm sure moving off the edge of the solar system map would take you into the galaxy map without problems since it can determine a direction you arrive and any movement INTO the origin solar system would just cause the unit to move into the solar system map from the side it entered. Again, overlaps could still be an issue, just not as much.


I am thinking that entering a solar system you would arrive at the sun. Leaving could be the edge or the sun I suppose. Which ever works better.


I get what you're saying about the Galactic era mapping. It would be ultraultraultraultra cool if each solar system had its own submap with subplanets... but I just can't see the game handling that in any stretch of the imagination without MASSIVE modding to basically phase each turn of the game by closing one game out and opening up another in a routine, all linking to a core savegame file... it'd get really head twisting but would be the ultimate game experience imo. Multiple maps wouldn't be enough to get the game to handle it based on the simple memory usage requirements of the core engine to handle the ai trying to process all of that at once.


Yep. If you have played Spore you know what I mean when transitioning from the galactic map to the solar system map.


If we enforced that one nation completely conquers or unifies all other rivals into one nation before we can leave the Solar System layer, we can really just open up a whole new game at Galactic era that leaves the old maps behind completely and starts us with a 'Galactic Colony' type of city in our Solar System's space, from which we may begin to expand. In this sort of outlook, we would import much previous game info such as tech tree accomplishments etc... and continue into the galactic era on a new mapping concept entirely. That might be the way to go unless we can somehow justify keeping all the previous world development while allowing the rest of the solar systems and planets within to be 'approximated' somehow with a Galactic Colony.

I do not think we should go that route for Earth and the Solar system. For other star systems yes but not all the stuff you just played. Otherwise you would just be better off playing the Final Frontier mod or any of the other space mods.

Thunderbrd
Jun 02, 2012, 04:56 PM
What it comes down to then is really going to be a matter of how taxing multi-maps is as it is deployed and how capable the system will be of handling a large volume of them as to what our real limits actually are. I'd personally love it if we could simply randomly generate every solar system and planetary maps for all planets within... if the multi-mapping gives us enough power to allow for this then we'd have a hell of a cool mechanism there. But if not, its going to be a major effort to balance out the output capacities of the complex solar system we start with and an outer galactic colony. Either way we have some HUGE challenges lying in wait there.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 03, 2012, 01:42 AM
I can not get the resources Tungsten or H2O Ice to work, both have pink bits. Nor can I get the terrain Lunar Dunes working. Anyone wiling to give it a try are welcome to do so.

Hydromancerx
Jun 03, 2012, 02:32 AM
I can not get the resources Tungsten or H2O Ice to work, both have pink bits. Nor can I get the terrain Lunar Dunes working. Anyone wiling to give it a try are welcome to do so.

I know that the H20 Ice is made from Marble. And then was re-textured. Maybe it calls a marble texture. I am not sure if that helps you.

GiuseppeIII
Jun 09, 2012, 10:10 PM
yI thought with multiple maps after you build a spaceship you can go to differetn worlds. You can then put units into the spaceships to get to the different worlds. Once you got their the worlds would look like the regular map besides with different terrains/resources

Hydromancerx
Jun 09, 2012, 11:45 PM
For the Moon and Mars yes. Beyond that we don't know yet.

Azurian
Jun 15, 2012, 03:16 PM
For Interstellar, Galactic, and Dimension Eras i would like to use the Terrain from Final Frontier

Cities=solar systems

b0XEitpE2Cs

Nano Era=moon (can move it to mid Cyber if needed)
Solar Era= Mars and asteroids

Hydromancerx
Jun 15, 2012, 05:24 PM
@MrAzure

That is what we planned to use. See this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11540683&postcount=126).

Moon Map = Song of the Moon 2 mod
Mars Map = Mars Now! mod
Solar System Map = God of Warfare mod
Galaxy Map = Final Frontier mod

ls612
Jun 15, 2012, 05:27 PM
@MrAzure

That is what we planned to use. See this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11540683&postcount=126).

Moon Map = Song of the Moon 2 mod
Mars Map = Mars Now! mod
Solar System Map = God of Warfare mod
Galaxy Map = Final Frontier mod

Shouldn't we also use terrain from FF+ and other FF derivatives for the Galactic Map as well?

Hydromancerx
Jun 15, 2012, 05:31 PM
Shouldn't we also use terrain from FF+ and other FF derivatives for the Galactic Map as well?

Of course. Note that the Solar System map would have some features taken from the Final Frontier mod since that's were they took the features from too. Again reference the terrain plan post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11540683&postcount=126) which list all the types of terrain and which mods they are from.

Hydromancerx
Jun 22, 2012, 08:35 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Are you still going to add the Mars (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11258229&postcount=34) and Space (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11540683&postcount=126) terrains to get ready for the multi-maps?

You may want to add the Space stuff first so we can test out transferring maps. Such as ...

Earth -> Solar System -> Moon

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 23, 2012, 01:46 AM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Are you still going to add the Mars (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11258229&postcount=34) and Space (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11540683&postcount=126) terrains to get ready for the multi-maps?

You may want to add the Space stuff first so we can test out transferring maps. Such as ...

Earth -> Solar System -> Moon

I am away for the next 2-3 weeks. I had hoped to get some of the nomad stuff done before doing more terrain.

Hydromancerx
Jun 23, 2012, 02:25 AM
Sorry forgot you were gone when I posted. :hammer2:

Azurian
Jun 24, 2012, 11:37 PM
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=323431


http://i.imgur.com/pvNIx.png
http://i.imgur.com/IVpZr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pYCYk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/G9caN.jpg

ls612
Jun 25, 2012, 11:14 AM
@MrAzure/Hydro:

How do the Solar System graphics from the Gods of Warfare mod compare to the ones from Planet Colonization? Which ones look better for C2C? I don't think that we need both sets of graphics, so I'd like to choose the best set.

Hydromancerx
Jun 25, 2012, 07:24 PM
@MrAzure/Hydro:

How do the Solar System graphics from the Gods of Warfare mod compare to the ones from Planet Colonization? Which ones look better for C2C? I don't think that we need both sets of graphics, so I'd like to choose the best set.

GoW look the best I think. However PC has some planets the other doesn't. So I suspect we will need to use some from both.

Thunderbrd
Jun 25, 2012, 10:20 PM
The more planets we can get the better, especially if we could eventually give other stars solar systems of their own.

rightfuture
Jun 25, 2012, 11:23 PM
I recently saw a list of all the extrasolar planets that have been found to date on digg.
Found it!
http://digg.com/newsbar/topnews/how_many_planets_have_we_discovered_see_all_786_il lustrated_to_scale

Here are some related links:
http://www.ancientsuns.com/extrasolar-planets/extra/extrasolar-planets-detail.php
http://exoplanet.eu/

Hydromancerx
Jun 27, 2012, 04:30 PM
Challenges of Getting to Mars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzqdoXwLBT8)

Some cool stuff to give us ideas for sending Rovers to the Mars map.

Azurian
Jun 27, 2012, 11:02 PM
The more planets we can get the better, especially if we could eventually give other stars solar systems of their own.

Ever played Sins of a Solar Empire?

I want planets to have "Planetary Conditions".

http://sinsdistantstars.wikia.com/wiki/Planets_-_Abilities_and_Bonuses

ls612
Jun 28, 2012, 10:51 AM
Ever played Sins of a Solar Empire?

I want planets to have "Planetary Conditions".

http://sinsdistantstars.wikia.com/wiki/Planets_-_Abilities_and_Bonuses

So, planet bonuses could be resources on the Galactic Map. That sounds perfectly reasonable.

Azurian
Jun 28, 2012, 03:33 PM
So, planet bonuses could be resources on the Galactic Map. That sounds perfectly reasonable.

Yes, similiar to sOASE.

Abandoned Smugglers Base - Tax income +1, trade income +40%
Active Smugglers Base - Tax income -2, trade income -60%
Adhesive Resin - Trade income +25%, development build cost +10%
Ancient Planetary Shield (Damaged) - Planet health +700
Ancient Planetary Shield (Working) - Planet health +2000
Automated Defense Droids - Max population -100, Population growth -100%
BEdit
Beautiful Population - Culture spread rate +40%, trade income +20%, population growth +30%
Black Market - Trade income +500%
Breathable Atmosphere - Max pop +200, development build cost +50%, Development bult rate +50%, population growth +20%
Brilliantly Designed Buildings - Max population +250, planet health +500, population growth +20%
CEdit
Caustic Atmosphere - Max population -15, development built cost -20%
Completely Hollow Core - Gravity well radius -66%
Completely Overgrown - Max population -100, planet health +800, development build rate -90%, population growth -50%
Conductive Mantle - Culture spread rate +25%
Constant Flooding - Max population -20, development build cost -40%, development build rate -40%
Construction Droids - Structure build rate +50%, development build rate +100%, extra constructors +3
Corrosive Atmosphere - Planet health -100, trade income -1, development build cost -50%
DEdit
Deadly Secret - Max population -1000, planet health -10000
Dense Canopy - Planet health +600
Dense Jungle - Max population -10, development build rate -75%, population growth -30%
Dense Molten Core - Gravity well +33%
Diseased Planet - Max population -20, tax income -2, trade income -50%, structure build rate -100%, development build rate -100%, population growth -90%
EEdit
Entertainment Hub - Culture spread rate +10%, tax income +1/sec
Expert Agrarian Society - Trade income +10%
Expert Metal Miners - Metal extraction rate +50%
Expert Crystal Miners - Crystal extraction rate +50%
Extremely Valuable Timber - Trade income +50%
FEdit
Floating Fauna - Max population -5, trade income +30%
Floating Islands - Max population +25
Foul Smell - Culture spread rate -20%, max population -20, trade income -10%, development build rate -30%, population growth -10%
Fresh Water Oceans - Max population +50, trade income +75%, population growth +30%
Frequent Meteorites - Max population -20, metal extraction rate +30%, crystal extraction rate +30%
Friendly Religious Population - Culture spread rate +60%, population growth +20%
Frozen Gas Core - Max population +5, Planet health +300
Frozen Over - Dev build rate -75%
GEdit
Galactic Trade Center (Moon) - Tax income +1/sec, trade income +30%, population growth +20%
Galactic Trade Center (Dwarf) - Tax income +2/sec, trade income +30%, population growth +20%
Galactic Trade Center (Normal) - Tax income +3/sec, trade income +40%, population growth +20%
Galactic Trade Center (Huge) - Tax income +4/sec, trade income +50%, population growth +20%
Gas Storms - Max pop -5, Planet health -200, pop growth -25%
Geothermal Hot Spots - Logistic slots +4
Giant Fungi Forests - Max population -10, trade income +40%, development build cost -20%
Gravitational Anomoly - Logistic slots -4, tactical slots -5, gravity well radius -100%
Gravitational Boon - Logistic slots +4, tactical slots +5, gravity well radius +100%
HEdit
Habitable Cavern System - Max population +15, planet health +500
Helium Rich Atmosphere - Trade income +25%
Hideous Population - Culture spread rate -20%, trade income -50%, population growth -30%
High Security Protocols - Tactical slots +5, trade income -20%
Hostile Religious Population - Culture spread rate -30%, tax income -1
Huge Comm Station Array - Culture spread rate +100%, tactical slots -8
Huge Crystal Processing Plant - Trade income +10%, crystal extraction rate +200%
Huge Herds of Cattle - Max population +40, tax income +0.5, trade income +20%, population growth +20%
Huge Metal Processing Plant - Trade income +10%, metal extraction rate +200%
IEdit
Impure Crystal - Trade income -10%, crystal extraction rate -60%
Impure Metal - Trade income -5%, metal extraction rate -60%
Indigenous Carnivores - Max population -20, development build rate -20%, population growth -60%
Indigenous Satellites - Culture spread rate +20%
Industrial Wasteland - Culture spread -30%, metal extraction rate +30%, crystal extraction rate +30%
Ionic Storms - Max population -20, trade income +10%
KEdit
Kalanite Deposits - Trade income +20%
MEdit
Massive Pure Glaciers - Trade income +30%
Mega Fauna - Max population -15, trade income +25%
Militaristic Population - Planet health +1000, logistic slots -4, tactical slots +10, tax income -2, trade income -20%, extra constructors 1
Moon - Logistic slots +4, gravity well radius +25%, structure build rate +10%
Moons - Logistic slots +8, gravity well radius +50%, structure build rate +20%
NEdit
Natural Radiation - Development build rate -40%, population growth -80%
Natural Thermal Lift - Structure build rate +25%
OEdit
Old Military Outpost - Planet health +1000, tactical slots +10, extra constructors +1
Orbital Construction Specialists - Logistic slots +4, tactical slots +4, structure build cost +30%, structure build rate +50%, extra constructors +2
PEdit
Penal Colony - Structure build cost +20%, structure build rate -30%
Perfect Holiday Destination - Culture spread rate +100%
Persistent Dust Storms - Population growth -25%
Pharmaceutical Flora - Trade income +20%, population growth +20%
Planetary Construction Specialists - Planet health +200, development build cost +30%, development build rate +50%
Planetary Insurgency - Culture spread rate -20%, planet health -150, tax rate -2, trade income -30%, metal extraction rate -50%, crystal extraction rate -50%, structure build cost +20%, development build cost +20%, structure build rate +60%, development build rate +60%, population growth -30%
Planetary Revolt - Culture spread rate -10%, planet health -100, tax rate -1, trade income -10%, metal extraction rate -20%, crystal extraction rate -20%, structure build rate +30%, development build rate +30%, population growth -10%
Pleasent Rodents - Culture spread rate +40%, trade income +20%
Plundered Booty - Tax income +3.5
Porous Core - Gravity well radius -33%
Precious Stones - Culture spread rate +20%, logistic slots +4, trade income +50%
Priceless Timber - Culture spread rate +20%, trade income +80%
REdit
Raiders Outpost - Metal extraction rate +20%, extra constructors 1
SEdit
Scented Plants - Culture spread rate +20%, trade income +20%
Seismic Activity - Population -20, planet health -100, tax -1, development build cost -30%, development build rate -10%
Signal Interference - Culture spread rate -20%
Slaves - Trade income +10%, structure build cost -30%, development build cost -50%, development build rate +20%
Solar Energy Harvesting - Max population +15
Space Ponies - Space Ponies! (No bonus except for achievement)
Spice Trade - Culture spread rate +5%, trade income +10%
Stable Debris Field - Trade income +20%
Storm Ridden Planet - Max population -50, development build cost +20%, development build rate -20%, population growth -40%
Strong Building Materials - Planet health +500, trade income +10%, development build rate -20%
Submerged Colony - Max population +140, planet health +800
Subterrainian Colony - Max population +80, planet health +1500
Super Dense Core - Gravity well radius +66%
Super Pure Crystal - Crystal extraction rate +200%
Super Pure Metal - Metal extraction rate +200%
TEdit
Thaw Cells - max pop +25
Thick Atmosphere - Planet health +1200
Tibanna Gas - tactical slots +2, trade income +5%
Toxic Fallout - Max population -30, population growth -25%
Traces of Oxygen - Max population +50, population growth +20%
Tundra Farms - Max population +25
UEdit
Unstable Ground - Development build cost +50%, development build rate -20%
VEdit
Valuable Timber - Trade income +30%, development build cost -10%
Vermin Infestation - Tax income -1, trade income -30%, development build cost +20%, development build rate -20%
WEdit
War Torn Planet - Culture spread rate -40%, planet health -200, logistic slots -4, tactical slots -6, trade income -30%, metal extraction rate -20%, crystal extraction rate -20%, structure build rate -40%, development build rate -20%, development build cost +60%, population growth -50%
Weapons Test Facility - Max population -20, tactical slots +8
Well Designed Buildings - Max population +100, planet health +200

Dancing Hoskuld
Jul 06, 2012, 06:53 AM
@Hydro, I am not sure if I can get the space terrain to work but I am messing about with it now. I think they (FF) left the names the same as std BtS just used them differently so their space terrain is called TERRAIN_TUNDRA and uses ART_DEF_OCEAN; oh and TXT_DESOLATE. I will need buttons for space and deep space terrain or one button for both.

Hydromancerx
Jul 06, 2012, 05:53 PM
Is there a Final Frontier FPK that can be taken and just renamed?

I will see what I can do about the space button(s).

Dancing Hoskuld
Jul 06, 2012, 06:20 PM
Is there a Final Frontier FPK that can be taken and just renamed?

I will see what I can do about the space button(s).

Not that I can see and I would need to take them out anyway. There doesn't seem to be an atlas either.

Hydromancerx
Jul 06, 2012, 06:49 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Here is a space button for both Space and Deep Space. They should use the same button.

Hydromancerx
Jul 16, 2012, 08:07 PM
@Hydro, I am not sure if I can get the space terrain to work but I am messing about with it now. I think they (FF) left the names the same as std BtS just used them differently so their space terrain is called TERRAIN_TUNDRA and uses ART_DEF_OCEAN; oh and TXT_DESOLATE. I will need buttons for space and deep space terrain or one button for both.

So I was thinking about this problem and then I remembered that the Future Mod had a bunch of different terrains all on one map. Which included a space terrain

Future Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=313196

See if this mod can help in solving the space terrain issue. You can place both ocean and space on the same map. Which is more or less the same things we need to do.

Hydromancerx
Jul 18, 2012, 10:55 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

So I looked at the Space and Deep space you put in I noticed it was different than the final frontier one. I had not noticed and I was looking closer to the FF ones and it almost looks like the terrain is transparent.

I wonder if its actually a background that is replaced in Final Frontier. That would explain a lot. How do you chnage the background UNDER the tiles?

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 01, 2012, 04:20 PM
@Hydromancerx I have had the Quantonium Crystal resource sitting around for a while. What terrains should it go on?

Edit

1) I was not quick enough to get a copy of "Gods of Warfare". If you did can you put it up somewhere temporarly and PM me a link.

2) The only featues it looks like I will be able to recycle from Final Frontier are "Asteroids" and "Radiation Cloud" the rest are done in some way other than the Civ graphics XML.

Hydromancerx
Aug 01, 2012, 05:25 PM
@Hydromancerx I have had the Quantonium Crystal resource sitting around for a while. What terrains should it go on?



I am thinking in Asteroids terrain feature in the Deep Space terrain. Meaning it will appear in the Galaxy maps only.


Edit

1) I was not quick enough to get a copy of "Gods of Warfare". If you did can you put it up somewhere temporarly and PM me a link.

2) The only featues it looks like I will be able to recycle from Final Frontier are "Asteroids" and "Radiation Cloud" the rest are done in some way other than the Civ graphics XML.

1. Here is the file. Let me know when you got it so I can remove the file from my mediafire account (I have limited space).

2. Hmm So you cannot find the Nebula or Blackholes or Solar Systems? Note that the solar systems may be land terrain. And I have no idea for blackholes and wormholes.

Hydromancerx
Aug 01, 2012, 05:46 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Looking in the world builder while loading the Gods of Warfare I have concluded the following ...

1. Nebula is disguised Ice.
2. Looks like all the planets and the sun are terrain features.
3. Oasis is disguised as a Black Hole.
4. Forest is disguised as Asteroids.
5. Jungle is disguised as a Super Nova.

Hope this helps you.

EDIT: Do you know how to chnage the texture of the black background? Becuase I think that's how they make the stars of space.

EDIT2: Looking through the files I found under Assets/Art/Terrain/Features ...

- Asteroids
- Black Holes (Red, Blue, Purple, Dark Red)
- Planets (Various types)
- Stars (Red Dwarf, White Dwarf, Blue Giant, Yellow, Sol)

Do it looks like you at least have the art for the blackhole, wormholes, asteroids, sun types and planet types.

There may be more stuff I have not found yet so hopefully this mod will be the holy grail of space content.

EDIT3: Under Terrain/Textures it has a file called Final Frontier_SpaceField.dds as well as other similar files that show stars. They look like the background textures. Now the question is how is it applied.

EDIT4: Foudn it! Its contolled in the CIV4TerrainPlaneInfos.xml Cool! :D

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 01, 2012, 06:23 PM
EDIT4: Foudn it! Its contolled in the CIV4TerrainPlaneInfos.xml Cool! :D

Which is a FF specific XML file. Which may mean they do whatever with it in their dll. I will see if I can extract stuff from it for us.

edit Naturally it will mean that the start field will appear on all terrains eg grass.

Hydromancerx
Aug 01, 2012, 06:36 PM
Which is a FF specific XML file. Which may mean they do whatever with it in their dll. I will see if I can extract stuff from it for us.

edit Naturally it will mean that the start field will appear on all terrains eg grass.

Will it matter if the terrain is covered up by the grass? The only time you would see the stars would be if you have a map with borders right (ex. a flat map)?

Hydromancerx
Aug 01, 2012, 06:57 PM
Ok so I just copied over the textures and that file and this is what happened (See Images)

First shows the south pole stars like I suspected. This is fine.

Send shows stars showing up on the space terrain you made. Which is what we want.

However the 3rd image shows stars showing up in the ocean. Which is not what we want.

So looks like we will need to add stars to the space terrain texture itself without it being transparent.

Hydromancerx
Aug 01, 2012, 07:05 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Could you send me the file you used for the space terrain. Maybe I could figure out how to re-texture it. Thanks!

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 01, 2012, 07:06 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Could you send me the file you used for the space terrain. Maybe I could figure out how to re-texture it. Thanks!

It is on the SVN. Probably in the LST.FPK.

Hydromancerx
Aug 01, 2012, 07:13 PM
Oh I just realized something! Now I know why the terrain is transparent! When units or terrain features (such as planets) sit on the terrain you have to see the bottom side of them. If it were like an ocean with a surface then you would cut off the bottom part of the units or terrain features (everything underwater).

I guess our space will just have to be black with no stars. :( because if we add the background stars then they will appear on planet terrains and if we put a star texture on the terrain then it will cut off things. *grumble* And moving every feature, and unit up in the Z axis is too hard to do plus it might ruin their animations.

Unless someone has a better idea we will just have to stick with no background stars.

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 01, 2012, 08:17 PM
A wandering beaver discovers geodes on the moon and quantonium crystals in the asteroid belt.

May need to redo the space terrain since the asteroids don't seem to be sitting in it correctly.

Hydromancerx
Aug 01, 2012, 09:10 PM
Heh beavers on the moon.

Q. Why do moon rocks taste better than earth rocks?

A. They are a little meteor (meaty-er)! :lmao:

Thunderbrd
Aug 01, 2012, 11:20 PM
Heh beavers on the moon.
Isn't that what happens when your girlfriend sits on your butt?

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 02, 2012, 03:47 AM
Redid the space terrain (old art define is still there Koshling, so if this one does not work with viewports I can create a terrain_none for you).

Image 1 - Asteroids and Radiation Cloud working. Black Hole - is this to big Hydro?

Image 2 - Solar System, the orbits move.

Hydromancerx
Aug 02, 2012, 04:37 AM
@Dancing Hoskuld

1. Looks fine. They were pretty big in FF and other space mods. I think the supernova is around the same size too. The asteroids look good! :goodjob:

2. Hmm. Any planets in the solar system? Do you know how it works? Normally they have a random star in the middle and then random planets around the star.

God-Emperor
Aug 02, 2012, 04:09 PM
Final Frontier updates the star systems every frame via the Update event's onUpdate event handler. It boils down to doing the stuff in the updateDisplay function in CvSolarSystem.py.

This function resets the plot's feature, then adds the various models to the solar system feature's model (it has a bunch of nodes to add things to it via the feature's "dummy" functions, like addFeatureDummyModel and setFeatureDummyTexture). The nodes are defined in the feature's entry in the CIV4ArtDefines_Feature.xml which maps names to use in the Python to names of dummy nodes in the .nif file and also maps names of things that can be put into the nodes to .nif files for them

The list of things this function does is something like this:

set the orbit dash lines to be invisible

add the correct star type model

add buildings that appear in orbits (there are separate slots for these from the planet slots)

add an astral gate model if needed (picks which one based on number of pieces completed)

then for each planet: set orbit dashed lines for its orbit to be visible, add each planet using the correct type and size and also add atmospheric effect for some types, clouds for the earth-like type, and rings and moon if needed, add population lights effect, add buildings that show (mag-lev network and commercial satellites), and finally the flashing green selection indicator if the planet is selected.

All every screen update, and occasionally between since the update function is called directly at times when something happens that should have a visible effect. I have to assume doing all this in Python every frame has an impact on the frame rate, but it is obviously not too bad.

ls612
Aug 02, 2012, 04:13 PM
@God-Emperor:

How much of an effect does that have on performance? Python is slow as heck, and calling it every frame can't be good for framerate or turn times.

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 02, 2012, 06:31 PM
@God-Emperor Thanks for that. I am slowly finding my way around their code.

@God-Emperor:
... Python is slow as heck....

Not true, Python is not in itself slow. People write slow C++ code too. Just ask Koshling.

ls612
Aug 03, 2012, 11:09 AM
Not true, Python is not in itself slow. People write slow C++ code too. Just ask Koshling.

Yes, that is indeed true. However, I have always read that with Civ it is usually faster to use C++ than Python, and doing an update every frame sounds like a performance hog. If it isn't though, that would be great.

Koshling
Aug 03, 2012, 01:06 PM
Yes, that is indeed true. However, I have always read that with Civ it is usually faster to use C++ than Python, and doing an update every frame sounds like a performance hog. If it isn't though, that would be great.

Both true.

In general, if the main functionality is in the code we're talking about, well written C++ should be about 50-100 times faster than well written Python. However, in THIS case it may well be that the main time consumers are in the graphical redisplay, which is an engine bottleneck, so if that were the dominant factor it wouldn't make much difference. Without analysis it's not really possible to say for this specific case. Moving it to C++ could be anywhere from a negligible speedup to a dramatic one.

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 06, 2012, 04:07 AM
Rats! The new space terrain breaks viewports.

@Koshling i will create a TERRAIN_NONE to replace the TERRAIN_SPACE you are currently using in viewports. In fact i will define both as the same thing for now then update to the new space terrain when you have converted. Watch the SVN discussion for when I have done it. Thanks.

Hydromancerx
Aug 06, 2012, 05:59 PM
What's it do to break them?

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 06, 2012, 06:06 PM
View Ports used TERRAIN_SPACE to keep hidden the plots you have not yet explored. The current one on teh SVN works fine but the new ones from Final Frontier don't (because they are "under" the land terrain) therefor you get the 10 second view of all the lands you have not explored.

This is not a big problem, Koshling wanted a TERRAIN_NONE anyway, he just used TERRAIN_SPACE as a substitute. I will copy the current TERRAIN_SPACE to TERRAIN_NONE then when he has updated I will put in the new space terrains.

Of course this all assumes I can get C2C to work on my machine so that I can test it before releasing it. So far I have not been able to play more than 3 turns and I can't load saves. This is why none of the work I had done on space and martian terrain has been added yet.

Hydromancerx
Aug 06, 2012, 06:10 PM
Ah ok. Thanks for explaining.

Hydromancerx
Aug 11, 2012, 04:35 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Martian Barren
Graphic: Mars-Soil from MN
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% Time to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

I noticed a problem with the Martian Barren Terrain. It currently gives :food: but it should not give :food: (or anything). Just like the Earth Barren terrain gives nothing, hence the name "Barren".

EDIT: Also all Martian terrain needs to give terrain damage.

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 11, 2012, 06:20 PM
They are all merged into the core terrain XML ie Assets/XML/Terrain/Civ4TefrrainInfos.XML if you want to change them. Today is going to be a RL day, 6 years since dad died, so I wont get to it until tomorrow.

Hydromancerx
Aug 11, 2012, 06:22 PM
Sure I will fix them. I did not want to edit them and then have you accidentally undo the changes if you were working on it too.

Sorry about your dad. :(

EDIT: Done.

Koshling
Aug 12, 2012, 09:13 AM
@Hydro/DH - how do you plan to have cities working on space maps? The relevant 'buildings' for such cities would be very terrain dependent. A 'city' in TERRAIN_SPACE (orbital community say) would have its own set of buildings (zero-G gymasium, special habitation blocks, orbital manufacturing facility...). One on an airless moon might have a different set again, on a terra-fromable planet another set, and so on.

We can use vicinity requirements to enable thsoe buildings appropriately, but how do you plan to PREVENT the building of most 'normal' buildings (regular housing for example)?

ls612
Aug 12, 2012, 10:25 AM
@Hydro/DH - how do you plan to have cities working on space maps? The relevant 'buildings' for such cities would be very terrain dependent. A 'city' in TERRAIN_SPACE (orbital community say) would have its own set of buildings (zero-G gymasium, special habitation blocks, orbital manufacturing facility...). One on an airless moon might have a different set again, on a terra-fromable planet another set, and so on.

We can use vicinity requirements to enable thsoe buildings appropriately, but how do you plan to PREVENT the building of most 'normal' buildings (regular housing for example)?

Expression system?

Koshling
Aug 12, 2012, 10:26 AM
Expression system?

The system AIAndy has been adding to allow arbitrary logical expressions in preReq tags.

ls612
Aug 12, 2012, 10:27 AM
The system AIAndy has been adding to allow arbitrary logical expressions in preReq tags.

Yes, we could use that to control buildings in the Galactic Era. The code is already there.

Koshling
Aug 12, 2012, 10:30 AM
Yes, we could use that to control buildings in the Galactic Era. The code is already there.

Plausible, but my main point was that every (well most) EXISTING building will need re-tagging to PREVENT it being buildable.

ls612
Aug 12, 2012, 10:32 AM
Plausible, but my main point was that every (well most) EXISTING building will need re-tagging to PREVENT it being buildable.

One could write a macro to make that doable in less time.

Koshling
Aug 12, 2012, 10:34 AM
One could write a macro to make that doable in less time.

Not if there was no way to auto-convert

ls612
Aug 12, 2012, 10:43 AM
Not if there was no way to auto-convert

Hmm, I did some looking and I'll bet that if AIAndy added a GOM_MAP with Multi-Maps, the code for earth buildings would look somewhat like


<ConstructCondition>
<IntegrateOr>
<RelationType>RELATION_ASSOCIATED</RelationType>
<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_MAP</GameObjectType>
<Has>
<GOMType>GOM_MAP</GOMType>
<ID>MAP_EARTH</ID>
</Has>
</IntegrateOr>
</ConstructCondition>


GOM_MAP doesn't exist yet, but I'll bet he could make it when he gets back.

Koshling
Aug 12, 2012, 10:48 AM
Hmm, I did some looking and I'll bet that if AIAndy added a GOM_MAP with Multi-Maps, the code for earth buildings would look somewhat like


<ConstructCondition>
<IntegrateOr>
<RelationType>RELATION_ASSOCIATED</RelationType>
<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_MAP</GameObjectType>
<Has>
<GOMType>GOM_MAP</GOMType>
<ID>MAP_EARTH</ID>
</Has>
</IntegrateOr>
</ConstructCondition>


GOM_MAP doesn't exist yet, but I'll bet he could make it when he gets back.


Yup, that would certainly simplify things

Dancing Hoskuld
Aug 12, 2012, 03:36 PM
Yup, that would certainly simplify things

It would only simplify things is that is the default for all buildings. Otherwise we will need to add that to every existing building. In which case I would suggest it be a tag instead. Dang some buildings will be sensible on multiple maps - I doubt I would go anywhere there was not a coffee shop.:mischief:

Hydromancerx
Aug 12, 2012, 04:44 PM
@Hydro/DH - how do you plan to have cities working on space maps? The relevant 'buildings' for such cities would be very terrain dependent. A 'city' in TERRAIN_SPACE (orbital community say) would have its own set of buildings (zero-G gymasium, special habitation blocks, orbital manufacturing facility...). One on an airless moon might have a different set again, on a terra-fromable planet another set, and so on.

We can use vicinity requirements to enable thsoe buildings appropriately, but how do you plan to PREVENT the building of most 'normal' buildings (regular housing for example)?

I was thinking that the Nomad system could be used for this at first. Where you had psudo-cities that could can't build any units or building. You would have to send units to the city to build them (like how the myths work). Then as it can mature into a into normal city once you have sent enough modular buildings to the colony.

We also would still need to specify existing building requirements too. Hopefully Praetyre's dependency web can help out. Not only will it solve problems for Non-Earth cities but should also solve problems for post-apocalyptic cities which lack proper resources.

Once multi-maps are made I think we will need to change the code for the free building to every city to be "free building to every city on the map" and then make a new one that could potentially send a free building to every city on all maps. That way existing buildings will not say send free Fusion power buildings to their off word colonies.

Likewise resources should not be able to spread to other maps until a spaceport is built on that world to receive and trade resources. Likewise any resources on the non-earth maps cannot be sent back to earth either until the spaceport is made.

rightfuture
Aug 13, 2012, 12:51 AM
The Nomad code could be used for moving buildings, like ore harvesters, or floating sea colonies, orbiting space colonies, and generation space ships.

Hydromancerx
Sep 15, 2012, 06:57 AM
Bumping for crazyewok.

:bump:

crazyewok
Sep 15, 2012, 07:16 AM
Ok so the moon and mars are the only planets that we gonna see the surface of? The rest will be done like the final frontier?

Hydromancerx
Sep 15, 2012, 07:25 AM
Yes. However after the multi-maps are working and well tested we may add other solar system planets like Venus or even random planets. But the goal is to at least support those 5 types of maps.

LumenAngel
Sep 15, 2012, 07:27 AM
Ok so the moon and mars are the only planets that we gonna see the surface of? The rest will be done like the final frontier?

Others planets like Venus are just too acid/hot or gazeous like Jupiter or Saturn.

Maybe in 20 years, when we will all have 4To RAM...

Hydromancerx
Sep 15, 2012, 07:37 AM
Venus is a late game planet where you basically have godly powers to terraform it.

crazyewok
Sep 15, 2012, 07:39 AM
I would love to see Alpha Centuri. Dunno if you played the game but was a intresting concept.

Hydromancerx
Sep 15, 2012, 07:43 AM
There is a Civ4 SMAC mod out there. And Yes I own both SMAC and Alien Crossfire. Its funny you mention it too since I reinstalled it earlier today.

JosEPh_II
Sep 15, 2012, 08:45 AM
I would love to see Alpha Centuri. Dunno if you played the game but was a intresting concept.

There are 2 SMAC based BtS Mods available; Planetfall and Conflict on Chiron. Planetfall was the 1st by maniac. And Conflict on Chiron is based off of Planetfall.

There are a lot of SMAC and Crossfire players on these boards.

JosEPh ;)

ls612
Sep 15, 2012, 11:10 AM
There are 2 SMAC based BtS Mods available; Planetfall and Conflict on Chiron. Planetfall was the 1st by maniac. And Conflict on Chiron is based off of Planetfall.

There are a lot of SMAC and Crossfire players on these boards.

JosEPh ;)

I've been using some Planetfall graphics for the new Naval units, they are pretty nice. I do also like some of their terrain graphics, so maybe that can be what happens if your terraforming goes awry.:mischief:

jjake101
Sep 15, 2012, 05:33 PM
Are there any C2C lets play videos on mars or the moon?

Dancing Hoskuld
Sep 15, 2012, 05:37 PM
Are there any C2C lets play videos on mars or the moon?

No. That part of the mod has not been released or even fleshed out enough for a beta release yet.

God-Emperor
Sep 15, 2012, 08:50 PM
Something I thought I should mention: it turns out I was exaggerating how much Python is run in getting the star systems display to work in Final Frontier. It runs something every screen update, but that checks a flag that is only set at the start of the game and at the start of a turn. Therefore all the code mentioned in this post is not run 30 times per second (or whatever frame rate you are getting). Most screen updates it is just the check to see if it should be run and normally it works out to running all that stuff just once per turn (and it isn't even each player's turn, just per turn via setting the flag in onBeginGameTurn and not onBeginPlayerTurn)... So a lot less code is run in most screen updates than it sounded like.

It is also doing graphics updates for a specific system when you are in the city screen and the citizen buttons or the entire city screen are marked as dirty, when the map is being set up and systems added, whenever a building is built, when a nuke goes off, when a meltdown happens (which never happens in FFP but can in Star Trek), when a city changes hands, and anytime a human player changes a selected planet in a star system.

Evidently the graphics used are persistent through the game. The updates, including the once per turn update, are mainly (or probably entirely) to reflect things players have done that show up in the graphics - building commercial satellites on a planet adds little satellites orbiting the planet, so this gets them added to the display.

So that explains how it runs all that Python code I mentioned every screen update: it doesn't run it on most of them.

Hydromancerx
Sep 24, 2012, 03:37 AM
Bumping for 12padams.

:bump:

12padams
Sep 24, 2012, 05:18 AM
Bumping for 12padams.

:bump:

Lol thanks... I'm gunna spend a week or so reading through this because I am extremely impressed by what I am seeing... Wow, this actually is my dream game I've wanted for the last 10 years. Heh, what next... Exploring other dimensions (way more advanced than exploring other planets) and time travel mechanics in this mod? Or maybe you're gunna start at the beginning of time controlling a group of amoeba in the ocean trying to evolve them to humans like in simearth... Lol this is awesome :)

When do you plan to have the initial stages of space colonization programmed? Early next year or do you think it's gunna be years away?

Hydromancerx
Sep 24, 2012, 06:27 AM
Actually there are 2 winning condations that are similar to that.

1. Spaceship Victory has been changed to a Dimensional ship that leaves our universe.

2. The Science Victory you build an Ascension Gate that allows you to ascend to another plane of existence.

And yes time travel is a tech in this mod. We also plan to have events related to time travel such as X unit visited from the future and later in the game you loose X unit because it went into the past.

There is a modmod in the mod section Called "Cambrian to Cosmos". They wanted to tackle the whole evolution scale stuff. Who knows if they will make it. We shall see.

As for when. It all depends on when they get done with multi-maps. Terrains and stuff are already in and units can easily be converted from other space mods or making our own. So really all we are waiting on is the multi-maps.

For more on the Space stuff please go to this thread.

C2C - Galactic Era
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=435974

12padams
Sep 24, 2012, 07:27 AM
So really all we are waiting on is the multi-maps.
What do you mean waiting? I thought it was already released...

Koshling
Sep 24, 2012, 07:32 AM
What do you mean waiting? I thought it was already released...

No - a demo of screen switching was released (from which we developed viewports). Actual (workable in a game setting) multimaps requires quite a lot more (time synchronization between maps as turns pass, ability for units to move between maps mostly)

Faustmouse
Sep 24, 2012, 11:07 AM
is there a reason why you cant set up a very big map on which different planets are fix viewpoints?

ls612
Sep 24, 2012, 05:11 PM
is there a reason why you cant set up a very big map on which different planets are fix viewpoints?

We could, but it is an inferior option to actual Multi-Maps, and about the same amount of work.

Koshling
Sep 25, 2012, 05:01 PM
We could, but it is an inferior option to actual Multi-Maps, and about the same amount of work.

It's inferior for several reasons:

1) Because individual 'maps' (like the original earth one say) couldn't wrap (at least all maps would have to wrap in the same dimension would be the constraint)

2) The 'dead space' between 'map' regions still takes up memory (could be reduced, but it's inconvenient)

3) It would make displaying the 'whole map' view that you get with the military commander in a viewport-enabled game much harder to do

Hydromancerx
Nov 18, 2012, 04:37 AM
@Dancing Hoskuld
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=322229&stc=1&d=1338252778

Any luck with the Nebula, Sun and Planet Terrain features?


Sun
Appears On: Space
Graphic: Sol from Gods of Warfare
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: Impassable
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Planet (Gas Giant)
Appears On: Space
Graphic: Gas from Gods of Warfare
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 5
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: Yes

Notes: There are 5 types (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Super).

Planet (Terrestrial)
Appears On: Space
Graphic: Terrestrial from Gods of Warfare
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 4
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Notes: There are 3 types (Venus, Earth, Mars).

Planet (Dwarf)
Appears On: Space
Graphic: Dwarf from Gods of Warfare
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 3
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Super Nova
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Super Nova from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 2
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: Yes

Nebula
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Nebula from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: Impassable
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No

Wormhole
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Wormhole from MOO2
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 5
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: No
Terrain Damage: No
Special: Can Teleport Units to Other Wormholes of the Same Color.

Notes: Comes in 3 types (Red, Blue and Purple)

Solar System
Appears On: Deep Space
Graphic: Solar from Final Frontier
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 2
Defense: 0
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: No
Cities: Yes
Terrain Damage: No

Notes: This has many types.

-----

Dancing Hoskuld
Nov 18, 2012, 05:26 AM
All are still on my to do list - plus the sounds, I must remember to do the sounds. ;) I am going back over my list, none of which are what i want to get done this version, and seeing what is stopping me from compleateing some of them. the work on the pedia is my highest priority then the extra specialists in the city screen.

Hydromancerx
Jan 02, 2013, 10:09 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld, ls612 Thunderbrd and Vokarya

I need your help. Between you guys there must be enough creativity, talent and problem solving skills to do what I am bout to ask. First I must say it is independent upon multi-maps and should not matter if they are in or not. What I would like to do is have the new Lunar Lander (posted here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12117580&postcount=1580)) to have the ability to go to and from the moon.

Impossible without multi-maps you say! But it might not! You see we have 5 types of Lunar terrains. None of those are generated on Earth maps. So if you had custom maps such as this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=480851). Then you can have lunar maps on the same map as your Earth map.

I would like a new button on that unit that when pressed will send you to a random Lunar tile which currently has no claim to it. Possibly even allow the user to specifically what of the 5 lunar terrain types it wants to land the unit on.

Once pressed the unit will appear on the lunar tile (with its cargo inside). Since the unit is immobile it will need to bring units with it if it wants to explore the moon. Note with this method it should not matter if multi-maps are made or not since it will send it to whatever lunar tile is available no matter what map its on. Thus we assume only one map will have Lunar type terrain.

The second button is to go back home. In which it will go to whatever city has your National Aerospace Agency in it. This is important since the unit requires that city to be built in anyways. Its also a national unit with a limit of 1. So you can only have one in use at a time.

The 3rd button would be to a Spaceport. In which it would list all cities with Spaceports. Thus if you made a Moon base with a Spaceport then you could go directly there instead of a random lunar terrain location.

This method could be also done for Mars terrains and even Space terrains. But my main focus is getting the first major step of getting Lunar Units to Lunar terrain.

So what do you say? Can it be done?

Dancing Hoskuld
Jan 02, 2013, 10:42 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld, ls612 Thunderbrd and Vokarya

I need your help. Between you guys there must be enough creativity, talent and problem solving skills to do what I am bout to ask. First I must say it is independent upon multi-maps and should not matter if they are in or not. What I would like to do is have the new Lunar Lander (posted here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12117580&postcount=1580)) to have the ability to go to and from the moon.

Impossible without multi-maps you say! But it might not! You see we have 5 types of Lunar terrains. None of those are generated on Earth maps. So if you had custom maps such as this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=480851). Then you can have lunar maps on the same map as your Earth map.

I would like a new button on that unit that when pressed will send you to a random Lunar tile which currently has no claim to it. Possibly even allow the user to specifically what of the 5 lunar terrain types it wants to land the unit on.

Once pressed the unit will appear on the lunar tile (with its cargo inside). Since the unit is immobile it will need to bring units with it if it wants to explore the moon. Note with this method it should not matter if multi-maps are made or not since it will send it to whatever lunar tile is available no matter what map its on. Thus we assume only one map will have Lunar type terrain.

The second button is to go back home. In which it will go to whatever city has your National Aerospace Agency in it. This is important since the unit requires that city to be built in anyways. Its also a national unit with a limit of 1. So you can only have one in use at a time.

The 3rd button would be to a Spaceport. In which it would list all cities with Spaceports. Thus if you made a Moon base with a Spaceport then you could go directly there instead of a random lunar terrain location.

This method could be also done for Mars terrains and even Space terrains. But my main focus is getting the first major step of getting Lunar Units to Lunar terrain.

So what do you say? Can it be done?

1-3) On moving from any one map to another map.

This can be done as an mission. A mission is just an action the unit can do. A mission can be restricted by tech and place requirements, eg space port feature or building in a city.

Problem: At the moment you would need one per landing place. Which is just fine for 1 & 2 but not 3.

Moving to a space port would need the list which means a pop up or screen of some kind. Thinking on that, I have flt that such a function "Go to City" is needed in Civ IV. I have not seen one, if one exists we could use that.

The place for landing would be defined by the code. Code could be Python or C++.

Thunderbrd
Jan 02, 2013, 10:57 PM
Said missions can be done but it'd be much better just to wait for multi-maps to be ready for inclusion since the same said missions would need to be programmed for that project. The map method you indicate comes with some issues of its own too, particularly where wrapping around is concerned - works great for flat maps nice and easy though.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jan 02, 2013, 11:04 PM
Said missions can be done but it'd be much better just to wait for multi-maps to be ready for inclusion since the same said missions would need to be programmed for that project. The map method you indicate comes with some issues of its own too, particularly where wrapping around is concerned - works great for flat maps nice and easy though.

If the mission is to a random location on the target planet then there is no difference between multi-maps and multiple maps on one map. The location is done in the code.

If we have a target location then we would need to be able to pass parameters to the mission outcomes and from there to the events. Something I have begun to think would be very nice anyway. In this case the parameters or target object is where the map stuff is handled.

Hydromancerx
Jan 03, 2013, 12:17 AM
1-3) On moving from any one map to another map.

This can be done as an mission. A mission is just an action the unit can do. A mission can be restricted by tech and place requirements, eg space port feature or building in a city.

Problem: At the moment you would need one per landing place. Which is just fine for 1 & 2 but not 3.

Moving to a space port would need the list which means a pop up or screen of some kind. Thinking on that, I have flt that such a function "Go to City" is needed in Civ IV. I have not seen one, if one exists we could use that.

The place for landing would be defined by the code. Code could be Python or C++.

1&2. Well that's great!

On Button #3 - Yeah. I was wondering if it could be done like events where they have X choices, but I suspect that unlike the pre-made choices that events have you would not know.

So then what about a National Wonder for the Moon and Mars? Like a Lunar Spaceport. Thus you would have 3 buttons ...

- Button #1 = Launch to Random Lunar Terrain
- Button #2 = Launch to Back Home to National Aerospace Agency
- Button #3 = Launch to to National Lunar Spaceport

Thus making the #2 and #3 fix locations. And I suppose if say you pressed button #1 while on the moon it would send you to a new lunar location and if you pressed #2 or #3 while at those location then you would not go anywhere. Sicne your already at the location.

If those 3 are possible then how hard would it be to code? And I assume if there is no lunar terrain and/or no unclaimed lunar terrain then it would say like "No Landing Site Found" or some warning message.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jan 03, 2013, 12:35 AM
1&2. Well that's great!

On Button #3 - Yeah. I was wondering if it could be done like events where they have X choices, but I suspect that unlike the pre-made choices that events have you would not know.

So then what about a National Wonder for the Moon and Mars? Like a Lunar Spaceport. Thus you would have 3 buttons ...

- Button #1 = Launch to Random Lunar Terrain
- Button #2 = Launch to Back Home to National Aerospace Agency
- Button #3 = Launch to to National Lunar Spaceport

Thus making the #2 and #3 fix locations. And I suppose if say you pressed button #1 while on the moon it would send you to a new lunar location and if you pressed #2 or #3 while at those location then you would not go anywhere. Sicne your already at the location.

If those 3 are possible then how hard would it be to code? And I assume if there is no lunar terrain and/or no unclaimed lunar terrain then it would say like "No Landing Site Found" or some warning message.

No. If we make a "Go To City..." function which pops up a list of cities you can go to and Spaceports count as cities then we will have one function to do the lot. The definition of the target will just need to be extended to include the map and in the case of between planets maybe a delay until we get an actual space maps.

ls612
Jan 03, 2013, 04:21 PM
Said missions can be done but it'd be much better just to wait for multi-maps to be ready for inclusion since the same said missions would need to be programmed for that project. The map method you indicate comes with some issues of its own too, particularly where wrapping around is concerned - works great for flat maps nice and easy though.

+1000 to this. It does not IMO make sense to do all of this coding (and it is quite a large amount of coding to do this), and then junk that all a little while later when the actual Multi-Maps stuff comes along. It would also as you say have issues with world wrapping. All Mapscripts would need to be changed to accommodate this, and then changed back once Multi-Maps come.

All in all I think that Hydro's idea may be more work than it is worth.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jan 03, 2013, 05:02 PM
There are three things here all totally separate issues:-1) The go to moon/Mars/... random location is almost all XML and minimal code about 2-10 lines of python.

2) The "Go To City..." is something we need now. Don't know why it did not come with Civ IV vanilla. The code would be the same on one map or many if you have the code accept "map" as a parameter in addition to the other stuff needed anyway.

3) World wrapping is only a problem if you have all the maps on one map which we wont have - except for Hydro's current test map. Just ignore it as we wont be going that way.
1) Go to location on (other map)If this is just a random location then this can be done with one mission per target map.

If it is a random location on a chosen terrain type then we need one mission per terrain type per target map.

If it is a given location on another map then we need some way of
getting the location specification from the player. However this is done it just ends up as a coordinate (map, X, Y).
passing this coordinate to the mission that does the work
This can't be done using the current mission system.
2) Go To Place...This is generic in that it can work for units on any map and between maps. It
Displays a list of targets based on where the unit can get to
Takes the selection (map, x, y)
Gives the unit "go to" orders if the target is on the same map.
Uses the right mission if the target is on a different map.

Hydromancerx
Jan 03, 2013, 07:21 PM
@DH

So what's the bottom line? Do we need to wait for multi-maps or not?

Thunderbrd
Jan 03, 2013, 07:47 PM
@DH: Have you taken a look at what Koshling has stated is the final remaining barrier to multi-map development? It appears your python skills might be in desperate need to complete that project.

(map, x, y) makes a lot of sense and I don't know how much of that kind of thinking would need to take place in the dll but such missions wouldn't be terribly difficult to make there provided such a coordinate system has been established. To be honest, I know he's done the viewports and such but I don't understand or know exactly what he's done for multi-map work.

Then of course, we need to be able to store the multiple maps... I think he's done work for that. But we also then have to figure out how (and when) to generate them. I believe the plan on that has always been to generate the added maps as needed. But we'd need to be able to identify what mapscripts to use for that and ... it would help if Koshling might be able to break down the steps of the project and let us know exactly what has been done, how what's been done so far works in the code and what exactly we still have to achieve. I'm sure we need to develop new mapscripts for generating the rest of the maps but I know so little about the standard mapscripts we use that I feel totally useless here!

3) World wrapping is only a problem if you have all the maps on one map which we wont have - except for Hydro's current test map. Just ignore it as we wont be going that way.
I think that last sentence kinda states we should be waiting for completion on the multi-map project.

Faustmouse
Jan 04, 2013, 06:20 AM
It would be very cool if you could at least land on and colonize the moon soon. Not only for gameplay-reasons to fill the lunar-techs, but also for modding reasons to test the space-missions-stuff.
But I think it is not worth it to change the mapscript as Hydro proposed. What if just making a test-scenario that don't affect the game? Sure, you are forced to play this one map if you want lunar-stuff, but it is MUCH less effort and you could still enjoy and test lunar-stuff.

Hydromancerx
Jan 04, 2013, 01:46 PM
It would be very cool if you could at least land on and colonize the moon soon. Not only for gameplay-reasons to fill the lunar-techs, but also for modding reasons to test the space-missions-stuff.
But I think it is not worth it to change the mapscript as Hydro proposed. What if just making a test-scenario that don't affect the game? Sure, you are forced to play this one map if you want lunar-stuff, but it is MUCH less effort and you could still enjoy and test lunar-stuff.

Or use both. First use the special map script to make the map and then go in and customize the map to include all the C2C terrains, features and resources. Because right now the custom map only produces a simplistic map that doesn't utilize all the types of terrains.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jan 04, 2013, 01:59 PM
It would be very cool if you could at least land on and colonize the moon soon. Not only for gameplay-reasons to fill the lunar-techs, but also for modding reasons to test the space-missions-stuff.
But I think it is not worth it to change the mapscript as Hydro proposed. What if just making a test-scenario that don't affect the game? Sure, you are forced to play this one map if you want lunar-stuff, but it is MUCH less effort and you could still enjoy and test lunar-stuff.

Actually there is a great deal off effort to get such a map working, all to do with turning each sub-map into a globe ie allow you to walk east of the eastern end onto the western end. Making it look right too so that the east is linked to the west end. This is the wrapping problem we talked about and don't want to think about.

Faustmouse
Jan 04, 2013, 02:48 PM
Jeah, the map I suggested for demo purpose was just a flat one, not a round world. I think I've heared you ned multi maps to solve the wrap problem correctly.
What I suggest is just an as easy as possible flat map for testing lunar stuff (i think mars stuff is quite similar to that, isn't it) with no extra mapscript needed. Just like the 4 (or 5) in one map Hydro posted in the Map thread: Earth and Moon seperated by space terrain, similar like 2 continents are seperated by water before you have ships.

Alex Costa
Jan 06, 2013, 08:12 AM
I think we should test the Moon first. BTW Hydromancerx what wonder are planned to be Moon-specific? Also I suppose Helium-256 (? correct me if I am wrong?) will be added as a resource?

Hydromancerx
Jan 06, 2013, 01:30 PM
I think we should test the Moon first. BTW Hydromancerx what wonder are planned to be Moon-specific? Also I suppose Helium-256 (? correct me if I am wrong?) will be added as a resource?

I have not even thought about Wonders at this stage. But Helium3 is already put in as a resource.

Hydromancerx
Jan 07, 2013, 05:48 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Here are some Terrain Improvements. These are like Cottages, but for the Lunar and Mars terrains. Note they cannot be built on Earth terrain so they will not be built normally on your homeworld. They are less productive than am Earth cottage so its in the players interest to terraform their lunar/martian terrain so they do not have to build them anymore.

Habitat (Small)
Graphic: Use Habitat (Small) from "Song of the Moon" mod.
Req Tech: Lunar Colonization
Can be Built By: Space Worker or Android

Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on Lunar or Mars terrains
Becomes Habitat (Medium) in 10 Turns
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 10 :gold: on Average
+1 :commerce:
+1 :commerce: with Lunar Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Colonization
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Colony Arcology


Habitat (Medium)
Graphic: Use Habitat (Medium) from "Song of the Moon" mod.
Req Tech: Lunar Manufacturing
Can be Built By: Space Worker or Android

Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on Lunar or Mars terrains
Becomes Habitat (Large) in 20 Turns
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 15 :gold: on Average
+2 :commerce:
+1 :commerce: with Lunar Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Colonization
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Colony Arcology


Habitat (Large)
Graphic: Use Habitat (Large) from "Song of the Moon" mod.
Req Tech: Planetary Colonization
Can be Built By: Space Worker or Android

Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on Lunar or Mars terrains
Becomes Habitat (Huge) in 40 Turns
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 20 :gold: on Average
+3 :commerce:
+1 :commerce: with Lunar Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Colonization
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Colony Arcology


Habitat (Huge)
Graphic: Use Habitat Compound from "Song of the Moon" mod.
Req Tech: Planetary Manufacturing
Can be Built By: Space Worker or Android

Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on Lunar or Mars terrains
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 25 :gold: on Average
+4 :commerce:
+1 :commerce: with Lunar Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Colonization
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Colony Arcology


Many thanks in advance! :goodjob:

Dancing Hoskuld
Jan 10, 2013, 03:08 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Here are some Terrain Improvements. These are like Cottages, but for the Lunar and Mars terrains. Note they cannot be built on Earth terrain so they will not be built normally on your homeworld. They are less productive than am Earth cottage so its in the players interest to terraform their lunar/martian terrain so they do not have to build them anymore.

Habitat (Small)
Graphic: Use Habitat (Small) from "Song of the Moon" mod.
Req Tech: Lunar Colonization
Can be Built By: Space Worker or Android

Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on Lunar or Mars terrains
Becomes Habitat (Medium) in 10 Turns
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 10 :gold: on Average
+1 :commerce:
+1 :commerce: with Lunar Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Colonization
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Colony Arcology


Habitat (Medium)
Graphic: Use Habitat (Medium) from "Song of the Moon" mod.
Req Tech: Lunar Manufacturing
Can be Built By: Space Worker or Android

Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on Lunar or Mars terrains
Becomes Habitat (Large) in 20 Turns
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 15 :gold: on Average
+2 :commerce:
+1 :commerce: with Lunar Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Colonization
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Colony Arcology


Habitat (Large)
Graphic: Use Habitat (Large) from "Song of the Moon" mod.
Req Tech: Planetary Colonization
Can be Built By: Space Worker or Android

Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on Lunar or Mars terrains
Becomes Habitat (Huge) in 40 Turns
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 20 :gold: on Average
+3 :commerce:
+1 :commerce: with Lunar Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Colonization
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Colony Arcology


Habitat (Huge)
Graphic: Use Habitat Compound from "Song of the Moon" mod.
Req Tech: Planetary Manufacturing
Can be Built By: Space Worker or Android

Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on Lunar or Mars terrains
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 25 :gold: on Average
+4 :commerce:
+1 :commerce: with Lunar Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Colonization
+1 :commerce: with Planetary Megastructures
+1 :commerce: with Colony Arcology


Many thanks in advance! :goodjob:

These are like cottages which means that only the first can be built and they grow into the larger ones. Do you want it this way or do you want each them to be built?

Edit There is no tech TECH_PLANETARY_COLONIZATION assuming TECH_PLANET_COLONIZATION.
There is no tech TECH_LUNAR_MANUFACTURING or TECH_PLANETARY_MANUFACTURING

Hydromancerx
Jan 10, 2013, 07:14 PM
Sorry yeah I want it to work like houses.

And the tags are weird. I am not sure who made them.

Lunar Colonization = TECH_LUNAR_COLONIZATION
Lunar Manufacturing = TECH_LUNAR_LUNAR_MANUFACTURING
Planetary Colonization =TECH_PLANET_COLONIZATION
Planetary Manufacturing = TECH_SUPERFLUOUS_MANUFACTURING

Civ Fuehrer
Jan 11, 2013, 05:36 PM
Sorry yeah I want it to work like houses.

And the tags are weird. I am not sure who made them.

Lunar Colonization = TECH_LUNAR_COLONIZATION
Lunar Manufacturing = TECH_LUNAR_LUNAR_MANUFACTURING
Planetary Colonization =TECH_PLANET_COLONIZATION
Planetary Manufacturing = TECH_SUPERFLUOUS_MANUFACTURING

Hah, I thought those would've been changed by now - those are the old names back when they were still in the concept stages.

@Alex Costa
I have a few wonder ideas for the moon currently not sure the terrains thread is the proper place to post them though.

ls612
Jan 11, 2013, 05:46 PM
Hah, I thought those would've been changed by now - those are the old names back when they were still in the concept stages.

@Alex Costa
I have a few wonder ideas for the moon currently not sure the terrains thread is the proper place to post them though.

You can't change the underlying names without breaking saves.

Civ Fuehrer
Jan 11, 2013, 06:01 PM
You can't change the underlying names without breaking saves.

I realize that, but I thought their alpha-stage names would have been changed upon implementation into C2C.

Hydromancerx
Jan 12, 2013, 03:42 AM
@Dancing Hoskuld

I was looking over the lunar and Mars terrains and I found the following problems ...

1. Lunar Basalt looks like Space.

2. Lunar Plains looks like Lunar Basalt.

3. Lunar Rocky looks like Lunar Plains.

4. Lunar Barren looks like Lunar Rocky.

5. Lunar Desert looks like Lunar Barren.

6. Martian Ice looks like Lunar Desert.

7. Martian Permafrost looks like Martian Ice.

8. Martian Desert looks like Martian Permafrost.

9. Martian Dunes looks like Martian Desert.

10. Martian Barren look like Martian Dunes.

11. Martian Plains look like Martian Barren

12. Martian Rocky look like Martian Plains.

In other words it looks like all the terrains were pushed over to right.

ls612
Jan 12, 2013, 11:55 AM
I realize that, but I thought their alpha-stage names would have been changed upon implementation into C2C.

Apparently not. :rolleyes: The same thing happened with OrionVeterans's new Aircraft, their tags are really messed up, making it a pain to work with. MrAzure's tech tags are also kinda bad, and I may just bite the bullet and change them (it will only affect games that have gone that far, and that should not bee to many).

Raven Destroyer
Jan 13, 2013, 04:34 PM
i know it's always annoying when modders break saves but if it helps modding then modders should just have Sorry guys but this is something that needs to be done (and best done combining the most save breakers in one go)

Hydromancerx
Jan 13, 2013, 04:41 PM
i know it's always annoying when modders break saves but if it helps modding then modders should just have Sorry guys but this is something that needs to be done (and best done combining the most save breakers in one go)

If it was done I would vote for say v30. Where we took all the thing that would break saves and just do them at the release of v30.

ls612
Jan 13, 2013, 04:48 PM
If it was done I would vote for say v30. Where we took all the thing that would break saves and just do them at the release of v30.

I'd vote to do it at the same time Multi-Maps stuff and GeoRealism get added. If by some miracle we can do all of that in the next development cycle then I think breaking saves there would be a good transition to the next phase of C2C.

Thunderbrd
Jan 13, 2013, 04:54 PM
That might be a bit ambitious to expect us to have the multi-map structure setup by then... We do still have a lot to do there, in fact, to the point that once we cross over and actually start having them and generating them and using them in the game, a few good MONTHS to a YEAR will be necessary to address the AI issues that will come with it so that its all functionally playable. So perhaps when we take that step, a very LONG cycle will be necessary to swallow the mammoth project it really represents (and that's not even to getting it to a stage of perfection, just to the point of being able to play it properly!)

ls612
Jan 13, 2013, 07:14 PM
That might be a bit ambitious to expect us to have the multi-map structure setup by then... We do still have a lot to do there, in fact, to the point that once we cross over and actually start having them and generating them and using them in the game, a few good MONTHS to a YEAR will be necessary to address the AI issues that will come with it so that its all functionally playable. So perhaps when we take that step, a very LONG cycle will be necessary to swallow the mammoth project it really represents (and that's not even to getting it to a stage of perfection, just to the point of being able to play it properly!)

If we focus on multiple maps for now, and put the combat mod and your other projects down for a little while it would come faster. For instance, Koshling set that the main barrier to him working on multiple naps now was the fact that there wasn't any UI for it. If you or DH worked on that after V28, then I suspect Koshling maybe willing to come and work on that. I also know that AIAndy is expecting to be back next month, so that we can get map generation done along with the new map project, which is also probably going to come in the next cycle. So having at least the base in by V30 sounds doable.

Hydromancerx
Jan 13, 2013, 07:27 PM
@ls612

That sounds great! No offense to TBs projects but I think its been established that the muti-maps are the highest priority. Without them we don't have the "Cosmos" part of Caveman to Cosmos. Plus we can always go back to the Traits and Combat mod after multi-maps are put in.

If I can help in any way let me know. Most of it seems way beyond my skills.

On a side note v30 seems like an awesome goal in its numerical symbolism.

Thunderbrd
Jan 13, 2013, 08:18 PM
Well... I've been planning to set aside further Traits projects after this next release and let SGTSlick play around with it for a bit on his own (with some feedback of course) and see if he can come up with a traits structure that works for all of us, since it is his job on the team n'all.

And I've got a few small things that should be immediately addressed RE the combat mod. While I've been wanting to do much more than those few small things and start really getting all the coding complete, I don't mind setting it down for the next cycle.

I can certainly help with the design of the unit missions to allow for transport between maps - that's not a problem... with the one exception of not being sure how we're referring to the other map types in code so if Koshling can go over how those references are supposed to be called I'd be quite capable of designing the methods of travel between maps. (Look forward to it actually :D)

And that would be sufficient cause to keep the combat mod on the near burner rather than the immediate one.

However, I'm not sure if all that can even be worked on until we have a map generation system in place and that's something I really would be kinda lost trying to sort out at the moment.

But I also warn that without the AI, that whole structure will only serve a player. THAT level of complexity in AI design is Koshling's true specialty so without him being onboard for that side of things, we're just going to end up putting lipstick on a pig.

Hydromancerx
Jan 24, 2013, 08:55 PM
@Dancing Hoskuld

Here are 2 new improvements that bridge Earth, Lunar and Martian maps. Note this is for after the freeze.

-----

Greenhouse
Graphic: Use Greenhouse from "Planetfall" mod.
Req Tech: Hydroponics
Can be Built By: Modern Worker, Clone, Android or Space Worker


Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on ANY land terrains, even Lunar and Martian.
Doesn't require Irrigation like Farms
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 16 :gold: on Average
+5% Air Defense
+5 :food:
+1 :food: with Gene Manipulation tech
+1 :food: with Artificial Evolution tech
+1 :commerce: with Derivatives tech
+1 :commerce: with Biomaterials tech
+1 :commerce: with Vertical Farming tech
+1 :commerce: with Extraterrestrial Agriculture tech
+1 :food: with Slavery civic
+1 :food: with Caste civic
+1 :food: with Feudal civic
+1 :food: with Subsistence civic
+1 :commerce: with Proletariat civic
+1 :commerce: with Feudal civic
+1 :commerce: with Free Market civic


Notes: This is basically the only type of "Farm" you can build on Lunar or Martian Terrain until the Farmscraper or you Terraform the terrain. This is made to be less than a farm, but better than nothing when on the Moon or Mars. If at max this produces around 5 less food than a normal farm.

-----

Farmscraper
Graphic: Use Condenser from "Planetfall" mod.
Req Tech: Vertical Farming
Can be Built By: Android or Space Worker


Can Only Be Built on Flatlands
Can Only Be Built on ANY land terrains, even Lunar and Martian.
Doesn't require Irrigation like Farms
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 32 :gold: on Average
+5% Air Defense
+30 :food:
+5 :commerce:
+1 :food: with Artificial Evolution tech
+1 :commerce: with Extraterrestrial Agriculture tech
+1 :food: with Slavery civic
+1 :food: with Caste civic
+1 :food: with Feudal civic
+1 :food: with Subsistence civic
+1 :commerce: with Proletariat civic
+1 :commerce: with Feudal civic
+1 :commerce: with Free Market civic


Notes: This is best type of farm. I also think that normal farms and the greenhouse should be able to upgrade into this. And I think we already use this graphic on the Farmscraper I, II and III building. So we could reuse the art.

-----

Many thanks in advance! :goodjob:

Faustmouse
Jan 25, 2013, 03:05 AM
I can't wait to see those in game :)

But do you really think the "+1 Food from..." makes so much difference on the farm-scraper? I think with so much base food it should be around +5 food per tech/ civic. ALso, Extraterristical Argriculture tech should also give some +5. And the more I think about, why could you even be able to build those farms on other planets without this tech? Does the tech only mean "farm E.T. Plants" or does it mean "farm on other planets"?

ls612
Jan 25, 2013, 04:10 PM
I was also thinking of adding a new Mine to the TH era, the Core Mine (available at Core Mining)

Core Mine
Graphic: Use Kathy's Excavation (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=20508) graphics.
Req Tech: Core Mining
Can be Built By: Clone, Android or Space Worker

Can Only Be Built on Hills or Rocky (anywhere normal mines can go)
Can Only Be Built on ANY land terrains, even Lunar and Martian.
Cannot Be Built Outside Cultural Borders
Pillage Yields 36 :gold: on Average
+8 :production:
+3 :commerce:
Gets all of the tech bonuses other mines get.

I could make this myself, as I know DH would rather work on his own stuff. What do you guys think?

Faustmouse
Jan 25, 2013, 04:23 PM
Compared to the farmscraper +8 Prod is quite low. I think it might be even lower than a shaft mine with all the techs that gives a bonus. I think it should be +15.

ls612
Jan 25, 2013, 04:26 PM
Compared to the farmscraper +8 Prod is quite low. I think it might be even lower than a shaft mine with all the techs that gives a bonus. I think it should be +15.

8 production plus all of the earlier tech bonuses for mines. And commerce too. I think that that in total would be balanced.