View Full Version : Non-State Actors


Skidizzle
Feb 03, 2012, 08:25 PM
Terrorism, separatism, organized crime, religious fanaticism and now non-governmental organizations, have played major roles in shaping history. I'd like to see mechanisms where these factors can influence gameplay.

Now I'm not a modder, but I have a few suggestions for how these might play out:

1) These could just be added as random events... probably best suited to arms dealers, drug smugglers, the smaller stuff.

2) For religious fanaticism perhaps a kind of 'religious memory' of how many times one faith has hurt another.

Particularly city razings, inquisitions, maybe wars where 2 or more civs of one faith fight another faith.
Adding a drive for spiritual AI's to want the Holy city of their religion under the control of a civ following that faith or having freedom of religion.
Making it harder for missionaries to successfully spread a religion to cities already hosting a religion that's "against" it.


3) Certain NGO's could be triggered after 2 or more civs research mass media. Then specific NGO's could be tied to other techs:

Pharmaceuticals = Doctors Without Boarders, which can provide free health points to weak civs
Civil Rights = Amnesty International, causes nations with civics that extol human rights (ie Emancipation, democracy) to have negative relations with nations who deny their citizens those rights (ie slavery, authoritarianism)


Historically terrorism, separatism and organized crime are a result of weak, or failed states. This would probably require some form of stability formula, such as aspects of Rhye's mod OR stability tied to cities that would experience the most to lose from "regime changes" during a nations period of anarchy. The latter could even "split" to create Independent states like Rhye's.

or

Maybe Barbarians could be given a lot of base espionage points to cause trouble.

Thoughts?

Howard Mahler
Feb 03, 2012, 09:20 PM
I think random events would be a good route to implement some of this.
Maybe one or more of these ideas could lead to a new quest.
While apparently random events are not at the top of the list, I believe they are somewhere on the to do list.

Terrorism, separatism, organized crime, religious fanaticism and now non-governmental organizations, have played major roles in shaping history. I'd like to see mechanisms where these factors can influence gameplay.

Now I'm not a modder, but I have a few suggestions for how these might play out:

1) These could just be added as random events... probably best suited to arms dealers, drug smugglers, the smaller stuff.

2) For religious fanaticism perhaps a kind of 'religious memory' of how many times one faith has hurt another.

Particularly city razings, inquisitions, maybe wars where 2 or more civs of one faith fight another faith.
Adding a drive for spiritual AI's to want the Holy city of their religion under the control of a civ following that faith or having freedom of religion.
Making it harder for missionaries to successfully spread a religion to cities already hosting a religion that's "against" it.


3) Certain NGO's could be triggered after 2 or more civs research mass media. Then specific NGO's could be tied to other techs:

Pharmaceuticals = Doctors Without Boarders, which can provide free health points to weak civs
Civil Rights = Amnesty International, causes nations with civics that extol human rights (ie Emancipation, democracy) to have negative relations with nations who deny their citizens those rights (ie slavery, authoritarianism)


Historically terrorism, separatism and organized crime are a result of weak, or failed states. This would probably require some form of stability formula, such as aspects of Rhye's mod OR stability tied to cities that would experience the most to lose from "regime changes" during a nations period of anarchy. The latter could even "split" to create Independent states like Rhye's.

or

Maybe Barbarians could be given a lot of base espionage points to cause trouble.

Thoughts?

Xyth
Feb 05, 2012, 12:39 AM
Terrorism, separatism, organized crime, religious fanaticism and now non-governmental organizations, have played major roles in shaping history. I'd like to see mechanisms where these factors can influence gameplay.

1) These could just be added as random events... probably best suited to arms dealers, drug smugglers, the smaller stuff.

I agree that more non-state activity would be realistic and desirable, and this would certainly be the easiest way to implement such things. I haven't touched events at all yet in HR and I'd like to look into it before too long.

2) For religious fanaticism perhaps a kind of 'religious memory' of how many times one faith has hurt another.

Historically terrorism, separatism and organized crime are a result of weak, or failed states. This would probably require some form of stability formula, such as aspects of Rhye's mod OR stability tied to cities that would experience the most to lose from "regime changes" during a nations period of anarchy. The latter could even "split" to create Independent states like Rhye's.

Both of these ideas would require SDK work to implement effectively, which isn't an option on Mac unfortunately. In particular, I would dearly love to have some sort of stability and breakaway state system but its just not possible with the tools available to me. Some things may be possible on a more limited scale though.

3) Certain NGO's could be triggered after 2 or more civs research mass media. Then specific NGO's could be tied to other techs:

Pharmaceuticals = Doctors Without Boarders, which can provide free health points to weak civs
Civil Rights = Amnesty International, causes nations with civics that extol human rights (ie Emancipation, democracy) to have negative relations with nations who deny their citizens those rights (ie slavery, authoritarianism)


In a way these are a bit like the Olympic Games in HR and could probably be implemented in a similar way. Interesting idea, I'll definitely look into it when I also look at events. This won't be 1.17 but I'm thinking maybe making 1.18 focus on events and corporations.

Skidizzle
Mar 03, 2012, 10:51 PM
I was having a thought. What if certain random events could be avoided or cured with the additions of new/existing buildings?

Like having police stations lessen the chances or experiencing organized crime, having a national central bank that regulates inflation, or the addition of Interpol which would stop corporate corruption and drug traffickers.

Granted the AI probably wouldn't understand this so you'd have to add other benefits to them.

Xyth
Mar 10, 2012, 06:19 PM
I was having a thought. What if certain random events could be avoided or cured with the additions of new/existing buildings?

Like having police stations lessen the chances or experiencing organized crime, having a national central bank that regulates inflation, or the addition of Interpol which would stop corporate corruption and drug traffickers.

Granted the AI probably wouldn't understand this so you'd have to add other benefits to them.

I've seen such mechanics used in other mods before. For example, the Sewer can reduce the chance of a disease event striking the city. Definitely worth looking into.

Simon_Jester
Mar 12, 2012, 06:28 PM
Yeah. I like the idea of increasing the frequency of events- as it is, you can go through a whole game and only see a few very minor, inconsequential events that have no serious and memorable effect. I'd advise attaching the benefit to buildings that were already desirable- heck, there was a variant of Civ I that did that, with things like City Walls negating the effect of random floods.

Skidizzle
Apr 01, 2012, 12:01 AM
when you examine the code for the religious quests there are only quests for the current major world religions. Meaning that if we found any of the new religions you've added to the game we miss out on them. Just bringing that to your attention Xyth so you can think of some new quests.

Also, I ran across a pseudo-article about CivVI and they had this interesting idea of "offices". Some of the following wont be applicable to HR but its an interesting idea. Maybe we could have some things like these spread without the direction of the state (kind of a combo of the religious and corporate mechanics). Meaning its just the people of our empire being entrepreneurial and indirectly spreading the influence of your civ.
Takeover: A new Founder's cost to take over an existing Office.
Purge: The Resident's cost for destroying an Office.
Vulnerability: Probability that the Office is destroyed, during starvation, riots or bombardment.

Consulate
Doctrines: Founder has Monarchy OR Republic
Treaty: Civilian
Cost: 25 order
Founded by: Explorer, Great Person
Resident effect: +2 :culture:
Founder effect: Tactical intelligence, +25% espionage efficiency
Block/Purge conditions: War
Vulnerability: 10%
The office of a Consul is termed a Consulate, and is usually subordinate to the state's main representation in that foreign country, usually an Embassy, or High Commission between Commonwealth countries, in the capital city of the host state. Like the term embassy, the word consulate may refer not only to the office of consul, but also to the building occupied by the consul and his or her staff. In capital cities, the consulate may share the premises with the embassy itself.

Mission
Doctrines: Founder has Evangelism OR Theocracy
Treaty: Civilian
Cost: 50 :culture:
Founded by: Explorer, Great Artist, Great Merchant
Resident effect: 5 order, 5 :culture: of owner's nationality, can build Cathedral, Hagia Sophia, Sistine Chapel, Taj Mahal
Founder effect: 5 :gold:
Takeover: 75 :culture:, 10 turns
Destruction: 10 order
Block/Purge conditions: Foreign AND Resident has Theocracy
Vulnerability: 10%
Missionary activities often involve sending individuals and groups (called "missionaries"), to foreign countries and to places in their own homeland. Mission has frequently involved not only evangelization (in order to expand religion through the conversion of new members), but also humanitarian work, especially among the poor and disadvantaged. Missionaries have the authority to preach the faith (and sometimes to administer sacraments), and provide humanitarian work to improve economic development, literacy, education, health care, and orphanages.

Bank
Doctrines: Founder has Mercantilism OR Capitalism
Treaty: Civilian
Cost: 10 :commerce:/citizen
Founded by: Explorer, Great Engineer, Great Merchant
Resident effect: +1 :commerce: / citizen
Founder effect: +1 :gold:/citizen
Takeover: 15 :commerce:/citizen, 5 turns
Purge cost: 1 order/citizen
Block/purge conditions: Resident has Socialism, Foreign founder AND Resident has Mercantilism, War
Vulnerability: 25%
Banking in the modern sense of the word can be traced to medieval and early Renaissance Italy, to the rich cities in the north like Florence, Venice and Genoa. The Bardi and Peruzzi families dominated banking in 14th century Florence, establishing branches in many other parts of Europe. Perhaps the most famous Italian bank was the Medici bank, set up by Giovanni Medici in 1397. The earliest known state deposit bank, Banco di San Giorgio (Bank of St. George), was founded in 1407 at Genoa, Italy.

Mole
Technology: Parchment
Treaty: Any
Cost: 10 order/citizen; doubled in Capital. Takeover is same as foundation.
Founded by: Explorer, Great General, other Office
Resident effect: None
Founder effect: Total intelligence, +100% intelligence efficiency, +25% attack/bombardment
Purge: 5 order/citizen. Purge button is always available; purges might be unnecessary.
Blocking/destruction conditions: None
Vulnerability: 10%
Visibility: Visible to Founder only
A mole is a spy who works for an enemy nation, but whose loyalty ostensibly lies with his own nation's government. In some usage, a mole differs from a defector in that a mole is a spy before gaining access to classified information, while a defector becomes a spy only after gaining access. However, others use the term mole to describe any agent of a foreign power within a government organization. Perhaps the most famous examples of moles are the Cambridge Five, five men recruited as students at Cambridge University who later rose to high levels in various parts of the British government. Because of the long preparation time and the difficulty of inserting moles, they are quite rare in the top levels of espionage.


Consort (Heroic Epic)
Doctrines: Founder AND Resident have Monarchy
Treaty: Peace
Cost: 50 :culture:
Founded by: Any Great Person
Resident effect: +3 order
Founder effect: +3 order in capital
Purge cost: 10 order
Block/purge conditions: Resident OR Founder has Republic, War
Vulnerability: 10%
Royal intermarriage is the practice of members of ruling dynasties marrying into other reigning families. It was more commonly done in the past as part of strategic diplomacy for reasons of state. Although sometimes enforced by legal requirement on persons of royal birth, more often it has been a matter of political policy and/or tradition in monarchies. Following Europe's medieval era when tribal leaders evolved into feudal suzerains, suzerains into kings and kings into absolute monarchs, they rose from primus inter pares into God's anointed sovereigns. Marriages with subjects brought the king back down to the level of those he ruled, often stimulating the ambition of his consort's family and evoking jealousy—or disdain—from the nobility. The notion that monarchs should marry into the dynasties of other monarchs to end or prevent war was, at first, a policy driven by pragmatism.

Retail (Heroic Epic)
Doctrines: Founder has Mercantilism OR Capitalism
Treaty: Civilian
Cost: 5 :commerce:/ citizen
Founded by: Explorer, Great Merchant, Great Artist
Resident effect: +1 :culture: for each Luxury resource from founder
Founder effect: +1 :gold: for each Luxury resource from founder
Takeover: 10 :commerce:/citizen, 5 turns
Vulnerability: 20%
Purge cost: 1 order/citizen
Block/purge conditions: Foreign founder AND Resident has Mercantilism or Socialism, War
Retail consists of the sale of physical goods or merchandise from a fixed location, such as a department store, boutique or kiosk, or by mall, in small or individual lots for direct consumption by the purchaser. Retailing may include subordinated services, such as delivery. Purchasers may be individuals or businesses.

Mafia (Heroic Epic)
Doctrines: Founder has Mercantilism OR Capitalism
Treaty: Any
Cost: 5 order/citizen
Founded by: Explorer, Great Merchant, Great General
Resident effect: -15% :hammers: :gold: order, -5 :health:
Founder effect: +50% espionage efficiency
Takeover: 10 order/citizen, 5 turns
Purge: 10 order/citizen, 5 turns
Block/purge conditions: Resident has Socialism, Cooperation Treaty
Vulnerability: 10%
Visibility: Hidden nationality
Mafia is a term used to describe a number of criminal organizations around the world. The first organization to bear the label was the Sicilian Mafia based in Sicily, known to its members as Cosa Nostra. In the United States, "the Mafia" generally refers to the Italian American Mafia. Other high level organized crime groups such as the American prison gang the Mexican Mafia use the term "Mafia" to describe their group. Latin American drug cartels are often considered Hispanic or Latino Mafias. Other international organizations described as mafias include the Russian Mafia, the Irish Mob, the Chinese Triads, the Japanese Yakuza, the Neapolitan Camorra, Calabrian 'Ndrangheta, and the Apulian Sacra Corona Unita. There are also a number of localized mafia organizations around the world bearing no link to any specific ethnic background.

Prospector (Balance of Power)
Technology: Geology
Treaty: Strategic
Cost: 100 :commerce:
Founded by: Great Merchant, Great Engineer, Great Scientist
Resident effect: Mines build +50% faster, 1% chance/turn to discover resource, -5 :health:
Founder effect: Resource yield matching Resident's yield, 2 :science:
Takeover: 150 :commerce:, 10 turns
Purge: 5 order
Blocking/destruction conditions: Resident has Mercantilism OR Socialism, and Founder is foreign
Vulnerability: 20%
Prospecting is physical labour, involving traversing (traditionally on foot or on horseback), panning, sifting and outcrop investigation, looking for signs of mineralisation. A prospector must also make claims, meaning they must erect posts with the appropriate placards on all four corners of a desired land they wish to prospect and register this claim before they may take samples. The traditional methods of prospecting involved combing through the countryside, often through creek beds and along ridgelines and hilltops, often on hands and knees looking for signs of mineralisation in the outcrop. In the case of gold, all streams in an area would be panned at the appropriate trap sites looking for a show of 'colour' or gold in the tail.

Xyth
Apr 02, 2012, 04:20 PM
when you examine the code for the religious quests there are only quests for the current major world religions. Meaning that if we found any of the new religions you've added to the game we miss out on them. Just bringing that to your attention Xyth so you can think of some new quests.

Good catch. I've made a note of that for when I tackle the event system.

Also, I ran across a pseudo-article about CivVI and they had this interesting idea of "offices". Some of the following wont be applicable to HR but its an interesting idea. Maybe we could have some things like these spread without the direction of the state (kind of a combo of the religious and corporate mechanics). Meaning its just the people of our empire being entrepreneurial and indirectly spreading the influence of your civ.

Intriguing concept. Tough to code though, if it's possible. Unfortunately the core mechanics of religions and corporations are locked away in the DLL or even BTS itself. There's no way to add a 3rd such mechanic, you'd have to replace one and I'm not sure how possible it is to mix their mechanics. That said, Corporations needs to overhauled still so maybe some possibilities may arise when I eventually look at those.

Skidizzle
Dec 20, 2012, 04:10 AM
I'm resurrecting this thread to bring back attention to random events.

I tried changing/updating the events and triggers myself but kept messing it up so maybe someone can help me out here.

Ones I tried updating:

Experienced Captain - changed trigger from drydock to shipyard to make it available earlier.
Brothers In Need - Added the option to gift coal to aid in their war effort (now that there's 3 naval ships that require it or oil)
Interstate - tried to make the trigger for Democracy OR Confederation
Tsunami - Triggered only in Monarchy or higher, only occurring in 10% of games with a weight of 2 (which I think is really rare?) I wanted building levees to be the defense against this but didn't know how to code that.
Great Depression - causes temporary high inflation.


Ones I'd like to add:

Tiananmen Square - triggered by authoritarianism and civic square.
Pulitzer Prize - involving multiple news presses
Terror Attack - results in losing Stock Exchange, differing reactions to event
Hackers - triggered by the Internet, cities need power
Super Carriers - All players Carriers receive the Reinforced Hull III promotion.

Xyth
Dec 22, 2012, 02:04 PM
Experienced Captain - changed trigger from drydock to shipyard to make it available earlier.

This one is an simple change, just need replace BUILDINGCLASS_DRYDOCK with BUILDINGCLASS_SHIPYARD in EVENTTRIGGER_EXPERIENCED_CAPTAIN.

Brothers In Need - Added the option to gift coal to aid in their war effort (now that there's 3 naval ships that require it or oil)

This one required a minor Python change and some new text strings alongside the xml changes. I've added it to 1.20.

Interstate - tried to make the trigger for Democracy OR Confederation

The XML only accepts a single civic as a trigger, so to implement it will require some Python work. Added to the todo list.

I've not looked into the others yet. I do need to review and expand events, perhaps in 1.21.

Skidizzle
Mar 23, 2014, 08:34 PM
I do need to review and expand events, perhaps in 1.21.

Bumping this thread for exposure. An overhaul of the random event system is overdue.

As it stands, random events only have two options, on or off. Could there be differing levels? Off, On, and Realistic/Severe? Not saying that events happen more frequently but that more drastic events could take place.

As some have said before, they don't appreciate these features because it adds chance/luck to the game. But random events aren't chaotically random, they depend on certain triggers, that when applied well, I feel really add to the game.

Given Xyth's track record of quality work, I think it's in good hands.

Xyth
Mar 28, 2014, 02:13 PM
Not events related (yet), but I'm currently experimenting with organised crime as a mechanic, using the corporation system. First step towards NGOs.