iOnlySignIn, does the +32:gold: trading company really comes from the Brazil resources? I'm trying for Domination atm, and I've only got +15. Your corporation is really :crazyeye:

Brazil is loaded. England does not have a large enough Stability map in SA - might as well go for the good stuff:

http://i42.tinypic.com/348ivcx.png

In the above picture you can see me highlight a Sugar which hasn't been hooked up yet. Neither has another Sugar further north. Same for the Corn, Gold, Iron and Gems nearby. Nobody can micro their workers perfectly, yes? It so happens in this game that I was short by 2~3 Workers in SA. Too preoccupied with wars in NA and Asia.

I also did not settle the Caribbean - from Kingston alone you are able to control 2 Sugar and 2 Tobacco.

I did settle a city in the middle of New Guinea - it controls 2 Spices, 1 Banana, 1 Sugar, 1 Gold, 1 Dye.

Actually I think Leoreth decreased the total amount of TC resources on the map. I used to get its yield above 42 :gold:, not just 32.

There are also, um, trade deals, such as:

http://i39.tinypic.com/m96ole.png

Note to Leoreth: Please, please don't use my games as reasons to nerf Corporations. It's clear that most players don't play in the same style as I do.

I'm still playing on 1.81 and not SVN;
While I'm happy that the Euros got tech nerfs
(because they just advance far too rapidly to catch up to)
I get the feeling that Leoreth should really have separate
parameters for players and AI.

If that's not too hard to code.

It isn't too hard, however, it's easier to solve it with flat adjustments for all civs via the difficulty settings.

@iOnlySignIn: Interesting game, although you've given me a reason to rethink the city radius stability rule with your penalty-free resource grabbing ;) Not that I'll completely do away with it, but it probably needs to be a little more complex to fairly cover such cases (like only ignoring penalties for tiles that are controlled by cities that are themselves on historical plots).

Is it the Trading Company that gives negative gold? Anyway, I'll probably have to done their multipliers down a little. Textile seems to be fine.

Maybe set a lower cap for corporation gain?

Anyway - this should be 1.8 challenge, the SVN version is not 1.8, or is it?

@iOnlySignIn: Interesting game, although you've given me a reason to rethink the city radius stability rule with your penalty-free resource grabbing ;)

I think it's balanced out by the decreased tech rate.

Like I said, England now has better Stability but worse tech rate. Liberalism + Reformation now requires careful planning (ignoring Engineering and Civil Service are necessary). Military Science is now impossible before 1500 (kill Dutch on spawn) and Combustion impossible before 1800.


Is it the Trading Company that gives negative gold? Anyway, I'll probably have to done their multipliers down a little. Textile seems to be fine.

No. You should not nerf TC based on how I play, which is something I've always emphasized. In this game as England I control practically every TC resource on the map, by vassalizing Indonesia, Inca, China and controlling all of Brazil and India. That is very hard to do and requires careful planning. A +32 :gold: TC is a fitting reward IMO. In fact I used to get +42 :gold: TC in previous versions (such as 1.8 - the reason I don't post my 1.8 England games is because they're too easy and don't require any luck).

Say if you control all the Oil on the map - the total is what, 18? You get a +45 :gold: Oil Industry. You deserve that because it's very hard to do. With this England at this moment I control 9 Spices, 10 Bananas, 11 Sugar, 3 Tobacco, 4 Tea, 5 Coffee. If you don't get at least 32 :gold: out of controlling THAT many resources, well TC is pretty much worthless then, isn't it?

Another shortcoming about controlling every useful resource in the world is that Congress means everyone declares on you. I mean everyone. It's especially bad now since Russia is impossible to get into a Defensive Pack with, as Orthodoxy regards everyone else as a Heathen religion (even if you're Secular, "You've traded with our worst enemies!" is enough).

Only my superior Navy and anticipation (including gifting Rifling to my Chinese vassal) saved the day. Or else this England would have lost 1/3 of its American possessions along with Pakistan in the World War of 1782.

You may want to modify the religion modifiers for Orthodoxy, since currently it means Russia is worthless as an AI as it hates everybody for no good reason.

Also, there is absolutely no historical reason why England cannot settle Brazil. Or the American Great Plains, for that matter. I think that needs to remain true.

Ah. Perhaps I should play a State Property game now to induce a nerf on State Property?

Also, there is absolutely no historical reason why England cannot settle Brazil. Or the American Great Plains, for that matter. I think that needs to remain true.

Ah. Perhaps I should play a State Property game now to induce a nerf on State Property?

^Yes.

I sort of feel like Leoreth nerfed State Property after seeing those early China games of mine before 1.8 was released (which were played on Viceroy).

Now I can't even reach State Property :(

Ah. Perhaps I should play a State Property game now to induce a nerf on State Property?
Haha, yes, you should pursue different strategies equally so I don't nerf one more than others :D

Anyway, this might surprise you, but I actually haven't nerfed European teching. The only change is that HRE techs more slowly than Germany did.

But stability shouldn't be related to that anyway. The recent stability change was meant not to penalize you for founding cities on historical tiles due to their culture on ahistorical tiles. I still don't think cities on ahistorical tiles themselves should have the same benefits.

Good point about Russia's behaviour. I'll make Peter and Catherine care a lot less about religion.

Haha, yes, you should pursue different strategies equally so I don't nerf one more than others :D

But you know State Property isn't really my style. I'm too much of a peaceful trading/resource grabbing type of player, as I find combat in Civ IV a bit tedious. The fact that State Property is less powerful in my hands does not mean it is less powerful in general. No?

On a tangential note, perhaps the combat system/unit balance could be polished up a bit. That would encourage more belligerent styles. For example you mentioned removing Axemen (or at least its +50% bonus vs. melee). Another example is a Musket-Pike-Knight rebalance for the Medieval age. How close are those ideas to becoming reality now?


Anyway, this might surprise you, but I actually haven't nerfed European teching. The only change is that HRE techs more slowly than Germany did.

Well, in my game they not only teched slow, but also died to the French in the Reformation wars. :mad: I used to get Gunpowder from Germany all the time as England. Not any more.

I think the slower tech rate is the result of a combination of slower Germany, and rampant Reformation wars. The Human player fast teching Printing Press (something I *always* do) to initiate Reformation earlier than intended probably makes it even worse.

This just made me realize how England's prosperity is closely tied to a peaceful and balanced Continental Europe. I may need to be less Isolationist in the future - letting Germany die (and letting a Napoleonic France emerge) slowed me down. But is that a reason strong enough for England to Embrace the Reformation?


But stability shouldn't be related to that anyway. The recent stability change was meant not to penalize you for founding cities on historical tiles due to their culture on ahistorical tiles. I still don't think cities on ahistorical tiles themselves should have the same benefits.

Well, I still think Culture, by the very definition of the word, should be a boon rather than an abomination.

I also didn't show you the Stability screen of that England game. It's actually much (about 30 points) worse than my Corporate Novgorod Domination game, and yet was a tiny bit short from a 1800 CE Domination.

iOnlySignIn, it's not impossible to get MS before 1500 AD. I could have gotten it together with Astro in 1480 AD if I would have turned slider to 100 (but I was going for the UHV).
By the way, are cuirassiers (AI France and England) in 1450 normal? England had only two cities :crazyeye:

Are you talking about Emperor difficulty? I find it very very hard to play on Emperor level with my current skill level, no fun. :(

Are you talking about Emperor difficulty? I find it very very hard to play on Emperor level with my current skill level, no fun. :(

If you looking for fun don't play as emperor :lol: It's kind of fun, because it's challenging, but it's also pain in the a**.

iOnlySignIn, it's not impossible to get MS before 1500 AD. I could have gotten it together with Astro in 1480 AD if I would have turned slider to 100 (but I was going for the UHV).

I did get Astronomy via Liberalism in 1464. As Vikings you should go directly for MS after that. As England though you should prioritize Rifling/Economics before MS in order to conquer India, and Constitution/Corporations to keep your economy afloat. By the time you finish all those it will be past 1650, and you could trade for MS from France or Prussia.


By the way, are cuirassiers (AI France and England) in 1450 normal? England had only two cities :crazyeye:

AIs love Military Tradition. Especially the French and Chinese AIs - I think it's understandable. The English AI should be tweaked to favor Rifling instead. Alfred also likes to build large amounts of Knights which are completely useless IMO. Instead they should be spamming Crossbows and Longbows.

Civilization: Vikings; Speed: Epic; Finish date: 1592 AD; Difficulty: Monarch, 600 AD scenario; score : 6361.

I settled Oslo, the city on the northern tile of Ireland, Kopenhagen and Lindisfarne after English spawn. I used the Iceland trick to get to the Americas in the 11th century. It's fun to settle Chicago in 1085 AD, believe me :D

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0552.jpg

I didn't expand that much, by the end I had 10 cities.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0553.jpg

England was a very decent trade partner and ally in this game, together with France, HRE and the Mughals. Weird, as I started at war with them. They were techmonsters, too! They only had two cities but were first in tech in 1600 AD :eek:

The key to the second (gold) goal, which is by far the hardest IMHO, is trading (read as :begging) a lot and getting a couple of GMerchants. Whip a market in one of your cities, start running two merchants, beeline Guilds and get a grocer in it too. In this game, I was lucky to get first to economics, but it's not sure you'll be.


http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0554.jpg

An Aztec jaguar accidentally stumbled on Chicago, triggering the conqueror event. I disbanded all of my troops with the exception of the knights, the Huscarl and the pike, and pillaged them perpetually for 400 years.
The UP is X5 gold from pillaging, which has great synergy with the gold goal, of course. Get some Huscarls/Knights to India as soon as you can (it has lots of independents). Russia might also collapse from the Mongols, so you can pillage there too.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0555.jpg


My stability was enormous for the largest part of the game. By the end, it dropped to +10 though, I have no clue why.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0557.jpg


After reaching 1500 AD and teching MS in 1540 AD, I switched to FM/Capitalism and rushbought about 20 privateers, winning me the game about 10 turns later. Oh, and a suggestion for what to do with any GGs you get :p:
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0558.jpg

My score was a bit low, I guess I should try earlier civs if I want a high score.
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0559.jpg

Oh, and a suggestion for what to do with any GGs you get :p:
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0558.jpg

It's Captain Jack Sparrow.

It's Captain Jack Sparrow.


:blush:

I also did the Korean UHV on the 600 AD start, Normal, Monarch. My shortest RFC game so far (45 minutes). Score: 2282.

I rushed China on spawn to get the Cathedral goal easily. The Mongols started at war with me, however, and took all my cities :( Then China respawned, but because of the massive amounts of foreign culture (mine) in their cities, they collapsed soonly after, and I took their cities again.

PP was easy, just beeline it. For the ships I just killed a bunch of Japanese triremes - they declared war on me. I also went MS, but ultimately didn't need it anyway.

United States of America: Monarch/Normal, 600 AD, 2929 score.

The start was quite normal : independent Nieuw Amsterdam and British Boston flipped to me. France owned some colonies in southern Louisiana, Texas and Mexico, Spain had a Carribean city and Yucatan while Britain had colonised England. I had no trouble with kicking them out of America after a quick AL beeline, but I ended up at war with almost the entire world thanks to DPs :lol:

I read iOnlySignIn's description of his America game, and decided to follow his advice and run a specialist economy. It works mightily! I stayed in Mercantilism to stay away from Great Depressions and because I was warring almost everyone anyway, and ran Representation and Egalitarianism. Aside from the normal SoL-Pentagon-UN trio, I also built Hollywood (Graceland and Wembley got snatched by Korea and England :(), the Eiffel Tower and Lubyanka (went communism for the free GS). The last wonder really gave me an espionage edge, running a specialist economy.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0591.jpg

Aside from the USSR, who was probably spending commerce on espionage, I was really leaving everyone in the dust.

The last goal is the hardest, IMHO. Three oils are almost certainly yours, for the Mexican one you can get unlucky with a respawn. I warred Spain to get Caracas's and the Brazilian oil. I also settled SE of Mali for the African Oil. The Dutch had conquered the northernmost Indonesian city (Sukadana) wtih their Trading Comp. armies, and then collapsed, so it was independent and I took it for it's naval Oil.

An invasion of the Middle-East was required to complete the UHV. I built some Jet Fighters and Navy Seals and took the independent - it used to belong to Persia/Iran, which collapsed because of Mongolia - city which claims three of them. I also took Mecca, just to alleviate Independent cultural pressure.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0590.jpg

Some civilizations really got a bit too big for their breeches. Someone would have got hit hard if I didn't launch two Tac. nukes at Mongolia's armies (not me, the Turks were conveniently sitting in the way).

According to the end-game screen I owned 135 levies, while building only 25 of them. Strange, I never saw one in my entire game, and levies go obsolete with engineering.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0593.jpg

Top 5 cities of the world: the somewhat small, but energetic town of Frankfurt; two of America's greatest cities, holding many wonders, and the illustrious cities of York Factory and Fort St. Louis-au-Texas. Wonder how those got in there? I guess it's because I got a free 5000 culture right after conquering them... I think there is a little bug there, Leoreth.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0592.jpg

America's core. Is this settling pattern conventional, America experts? This is the first time I played this civ, so I had no clue what I was doing :p

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0596.jpg

Oil colonies all over the world.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg577/strijder20/Civ4ScreenShot0595.jpg

You normally settle NW of Oklahoma on the oil.
Good to see the Mongols as strong as ever :D

Never played an America game myself, no idea how to play it. And this is SVN version right? Maybe we need a new thread.

You normally settle NW of Oklahoma on the oil.
Yes. It may sound counter-intuitive, but Denver on the Oil gives you better Food in the city. Denver/Oklahoma's problem is lack of Food - it's Production is monstrous regardless of what you do. So you actually want one extra Farm instead of a Well in it.

Also, it seems San Diego could be moved 1N to the River. Rivers = Levees = good. Disregard the Wine - late game Windmill > Winery (just like late game Watermill > Horse Pasture). Otherwise everything looks great.

I'm actually considering doing a pure Cottage America to test out the new CE mechanics. Glad to know SE America still works. :lol:

Never played an America game myself, no idea how to play it. And this is SVN version right? Maybe we need a new thread.

Yeah, I think Leoreth has gotten all the mileage he needed out of this thread.

Regarding most civs, yes, but there are still some that haven't been played yet.

Finaly finished Greece in 610 AD after 20 tries emperor level, normal speed.

Omg that was tough!

What i learned:

1) Bulb Mathematics, before doing Oracle to get Metal casting
2) Start attacking the persian no matter what from turn 85+ so you have time to complete the conquest uhv in time!
3) try have open borders for trade with 1 partner as long as possible
4) garrison middle east with spearmen. the barbs spawn rate is just outrageous!!
5) Korinth+Ephesos+Epidamos as main cities.
Egypt city engineering wonders, Koritnh scientists, Epidamos wondercity spam, Ephesos Troop spam!

In the end i had to give up egypt, babylon and phoenicia to the barbs... Never ending camel archers, horse archers, axemen, impis... is just too much!

Final score 9000 something Shaka Zulu

Egypt: M/N, virtual victory turn 129, final score of 7327

early exploration for the gold, rushing obelisks, timing wonders, building capital 1 N of start, and a little luck and you can really do well.

tech order: myst-> masonry-> poly-> priest-> writing -> fishing (if you cant get it from a hut, which i didnt this game sadly) -> aesthetics (oracle sailing) -> lit.

builds: 1N niwt-rst: worker, obelisk, sphinx, pyramids, settler, HG, prebuild oracle; leave it at one turn, library (rush turn before fishing is done), finish oracle, parthenon, etc

xou: obelisk (can be rushed when city grows from HG), use GE for GL, prebuild temple of artemis for the gold from not finishing, library, cothon, GE for Great Library, etc

GP: Engineer, Scientist, Engineer, Artist

if you can switch to republic, you get that massive GP boost from golden age and the civic, which cuts the artist time from ~30 to ~15

(i also got SoZ, Ishtar, and Colossus with the time left over)

Babylon: M/N, victory turn 94, final score of 10828

this (as was always the case) was very much a matter of luck

start by sending warrior NW for huts, while building another to go east. I got lucky in anatolia and got another warrior, so i sent him back towards babylon for defense. the danube hut gave me mining, which was a huge boon. the 'stan hut gave me like 60 gold. I then sent the eastern warrior to prevent indian city spawn. western warrior made the rounds to denmark, portugal, sweden, and then russia, getting experience, hostile natives, gold, and fishing (not big, but cant complain!)

i also managed to get the event that promotes all melee units to cover, which was huge for harassment .

meanwhile, i used my gold to get a chariot merc and sent him SW to egypt (he had cover [amazing luck!] so the indies didnt attack when i declared war) and blitzed through. so with egypt and india (whom i later declared on) paralyzed with fear i was free to pursue the following strategy:

tech: writing -> myst -> masonry -> poly -> priest -> monarchy, bulbed math, oracled CoL.

build order: warrior, worker, library, granary, zigg, HG, oracle, (then ishtar gate cause why not)

the key was to mine the hill 2N of babylon after the sheep are set up so the library can go up fast. then run one scientist to get the GPP started. then let the city grow until you can run 2 scientists without starving. (obviously hook up nearby resources too though) hanging garden allows you to still grow your pop (to combat china) through production so you can focus on science. you need both scientists the whole time in order to research monarchy before persia spawns. i got the scientist/CoL like 2 or 3 turns before oracle finished, which was about 2 turns before persia spawned. my pop of 7 was enough to win, so i just rode out the end with bowman for happiness.

(btw i disbanded the merc chariot after i got the HG and never heard from egypt again)