http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/images/greatgeneral.jpgWhile the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running a series of ten games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php)BEFORE playing!

Settings:

Victory Condition: Any
Difficulty: Emperor
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Boreal
Speed: Epic
Required: Raging Barbarians, Always War, One City Challenge, No Tribal Villages, No Random Events
Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians
Civ: Any
Opponents: Any
Version: 3.19.003
Date: 7th February to 7th June 2012
Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

This one shamelessly robbed from Challenge I (game 8) as it has been my favourite game in the 6 series we have played so far.

Peter worked well as the leader in that one BTW.

Not sure why it's "any" victory. I suppose Space or Time are possible (along with the obvious choice).

This one shamelessly robbed from Challenge I (game 8) as it has been my favourite game in the 6 series we have played so far.

Ouch! I remember that game: it was fun, somehow, although I never came close to any kind of victory! And it didn't have the limitation of One City Challenge. :crazyeye:

My main problem back then was that as soon as I razed a city, one of the AIs resettled it ...

Ouch! I remember that game: it was fun, somehow, although I never came close to any kind of victory! And it didn't have the limitation of One City Challenge. :crazyeye:

My main problem back then was that as soon as I razed a city, one of the AIs resettled it ...

Don't forget a primary point: Raging Barbs on Epic Speed + you have the GW + boreal all land map = AI's having little trouble with barbs.
May help us. :)

I have to admit...OCC! :sad:

Here is a link to all of the entries from the first go around. Five submissions were OCC.

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/adhoc_query.php?show=summ&condition[]=1&condition[]=2&condition[]=3&condition[]=6&condition[]=8&condition[]=9&condition[]=4&condition[]=5&difficulty[]=7&speed[]=3&mapSize[]=4&civ=17&maptype=14&era=-1&exp=0&pubID=148&submit=Go

This game is really tough.

My first attempt I got to 1800ad before I threw in the towel.

Until Rifles/Cavalry I used HA's to eliminate one AI and Muskets for another. Having no metal killed the game. I could have used Mace's for centuries, then Cuir's, but not having Iron killed that.

I was producing 2 Cavs/Rifles every 3 turns, but the relentless stacks just kept coming. My last SoD got nailed after finishing off the thrid AI.

My first 3 GG's became super medics, the next 7 were settled. My Riflemen started out as Drill IV, which was nice, but not enough.

My only advice is:
- settle on/near stone
- build GW
- if you don't have horses within reach, start again.
- if you don't have metal within reach, start again.
- kill em all :ar15:

This game is really tough.
Well, my game was rather easy. I had to raze no more than 4 AI cities. The rest was taken care of by my new favorite PA partner: the Barbarian State. :lol:

I am not sure, if my game will be accepted (my first HOF submission :)), but 1100 AD is probably not bad, though definitely beatable. With some luck and careful micromanagement a finish in the early ADs should be possible.

My grand strategy can basically be summarized by: build GW, conquer the map with swords/cats. Techpath: masonry -> ironworking -> construction -> currency. Leader: Stalin

Some tips for competitive finish dates:
- Choose an IND leader with mining or mysticism as starting tech, settle on stone, tech masonry, build GW. You can finish the GW before barbs enter your territory. Teching archery for barb defense is a waste of beakers. An early GW also increases the barb pressure on neighboring AI cities. In my game the first AI was eliminated before I finished my first stack of swords.
- A three gems start is far less important than a favorable AI distribution. You don't want two AIs to be too close and spawnbust for each other.
- Take out the closest AI(s) ASAP. The less AIs are on your map the more barbs will harass the remaining ones.
- If you don't have iron -> restart
- Check the Demo screen every once in a while. If an AI's land and population is greater than three times your own -> restart
- If an AI has feudalism -> restart
- It's highly entertaining watching an AI city being harassed by barbs with a Great Spy, but it is probably a better idea to use the spy to locate the remaining AIs. Look for AI culture by zooming out. If possible, avoid meeting them unless your stack is close. Ideally, you don't want the AIs in war mode until your stack reaches their borders. BTW, can someone please tell me why my supposedly invisible GSpy can declare war when "meeting" an AI? :crazyeye:

I'll probably come back to this game and try another leader (Augustus Caesar?). It is way too entertaining to be done with it...

(first post on CFC after longtime lurking :))

(first post on CFC after longtime lurking :))

And an astonishing first post. :king:


The 1st 1st post with tips I saw around. Pepole usually start with questions.

Welcome to the HoF

Thanks Pollina, you really helped me focus on my strategy.

After seeing you completely pwn me, I decided on a major rethink.

Instead of Stalin which was my first attempt, I renounced an Industrious leader and searched for something that would really help me stomp the AI early.

In the end I decided on Boudica. I actually thought that she is so embaressingly good for this challenge that I really should have thought of her before.

She has:
- Hunting and Mysticism. So, can research Masonry straight out of the box and camp all those lovely deer.
- Aggressive, for free promotion of melee units
- Charismatic, for quick promotions
- UU is a swordsman, that can be built with Copper or Iron.
- UB is Walls (which cost almost nothing after settling on stone)

In my first trial run with her, my caps BFC had only 1 deer and 1 gems in addition to the stone I settled on. I won in 1270ad, but it could have easily been 500ad if I had found Gandhi earlier. So, my second attempt was much better.

Settled on stone. BFC had 1 gems, 2 deer, wheat & sheep + several hills.

Barbs eliminated one of the Americans for me, but I had to do the rest.

Won in 175ad, but this could have easily been 200bc with a bit more luck.

I think Boudica will win this Challenge, though I did also consider Cyrus. My first warrior had to survive attacks from an Archer and a Warrior in successive turns before I finished the GW. You either need an industrious leader, or a bit of luck.

Thanks Pollina, you really helped me focus on my strategy.

After seeing you completely pwn me, I decided on a major rethink.

Instead of Stalin which was my first attempt, I renounced an Industrious leader and searched for something that would really help me stomp the AI early.

In the end I decided on Boudica. I actually thought that she is so embaressingly good for this challenge that I really should have thought of her before.

She has:
- Hunting and Mysticism. So, can research Masonry straight out of the box and camp all those lovely deer.
- Aggressive, for free promotion of melee units
- Charismatic, for quick promotions
- UU is a swordsman, that can be built with Copper or Iron.
- UB is Walls (which cost almost nothing after settling on stone)

In my first trial run with her, my caps BFC had only 1 deer and 1 gems in addition to the stone I settled on. I won in 1270ad, but it could have easily been 500ad if I had found Gandhi earlier. So, my second attempt was much better.

Settled on stone. BFC had 1 gems, 2 deer, wheat & sheep + several hills.

Barbs eliminated one of the Americans for me, but I had to do the rest.

Won in 175ad, but this could have easily been 200bc with a bit more luck.

I think Boudica will win this Challenge, though I did also consider Cyrus. My first warrior had to survive attacks from an Archer and a Warrior in successive turns before I finished the GW. You either need an industrious leader, or a bit of luck.

I'm glad that my post was helpful. :)

Boudica was one of my first choices as well since she is one of my favorite leaders. Unfortunately, in my test games with her barbs kept killing me a couple of turns before I could finish TGW. That was when I tried Stalin with whom I won instantly. Now that I know that it is possible to survive I will play her again and hope for some more luck. I don’t think I can beat 175 AD, but I should be able to beat my own date considering I started in a corner in that attempt (probably another restart condition).

Starting in a corner isn't all that bad.

I had to disband most the troops I sent east, because they couldn't get back west before I would have had strike problems.

Ugh.. Boreal maps can be so evil.. Was doing quite well until I found Pacal, whose land is unreachable for my troops as it is protected by a big mountain range and a lake.. :mad:

Can I declare victory when all AI have been destroyed except for the unreachable ones? ;)

I haven't had much luck with the barbarians doing much carnage to the AI in all of my tries. I am selecting the few unit builders as opponents (Gandi, Asoka, Roosevelt, Elizabeth, Pacal, Frederick) but they seem to do quite well :lol:

Maybe I should skip India civs as the fast worker is a pretty good UU. I try to avoid IMP, PRO, CHA and CRE leaders as well as Civs with good early UU (Egypt, Mali)

Can you guys share some insights in the opponents you select?

Rob.

I chose both Indians, all 3 Americans, and Frederick.
Keep the Indians, they are reliably weak.

Elizabeth is fine, but as she is Financial, she might research good units faster than non-financial civs.

Pacal is a nono, IMO, as his UU is a spearman.


edit: and how do you only have 22 posts, after 6 years?

Thanks for the input, Neilmeister.. I have considered to add the other American AIs. However, both are CHA so I am not too sure this is a good idea. I think FIN is not a very strong trait on this type of map.
As for Pacal, I do not fear spearmen as I only attack with melee units.

Just finished another game on 1295 AD, best date for me yet (prev 1778). Still in 3rd place though :lol:

I think my ideal roster of opponents would include: Gandhi, Asoka, Huayna Capac, Roosevelt, Frederik and Pacal / Elizabeth

Oh, and 23 posts in 6 years, guess I was more of a lurker :)

There is an enormous amount of luck involved. Be prepared to abandon lots of games early because you don't get horses (if choosing chariot/HA approach) or metal (if choosing a metal-unit approach). If the barbs kill one civ, they have a city and more spawning room, and make it that much harder on all the other civs. That is a luck factor you cannot control, but you'll probably need it to post the fastest finish.

Choose your civilization carefully. Optimally, you want your main attacking done with 2-move units. Gallic warriors with a dun are easy to make 2-move units on hills, but cost you one promo that would otherwise make them stronger on attack. And after hills defense-2, hills defense-3 is the next logical promo because it gives you 50% survival rate in every attack (most of which will be at very low odds of survival otherwise). I personally think Keshiks are great for this task, as they ignore terrain and always move 2. However, my best Keshik game stalled because I let the far away civ get too big to fail. And I ended up winning during much experimentation, finally, on a game with random civ and random opponents! :lol:

You will build the Great Wall. This is made much much faster if you (a) settle on stone, (b) are Industrious leader, (c) start with mining... the more of the above the better.

The map: make sure you are using settings that have LOW SEAS. High seas make for a maze that you have to navigate, lengthening the effective distance = time for opponents growth. As stated, stone is highly desirable. Settling on a plains hill is second best. Anything else kind of bites.... but your results may vary. You will have at least 2 food resources (2 deer is fine) and one gem or other commerce resource.

I spent a lot of time choosing weak (militarily) opponents. BAD strategy. The peace-loving civs tend to get high culture borders early. You want at least 4 dead civs before your first cat ever gets to an opponent's city. The weakest civs appear to be the Expansive ones. Yes, that uis couterintuitive since you absoluetly do not want them creating more cities you have to kill... but in fact, they spend so much effort on settlers and escorts that the barbs never let get out of town, that they generally stay weak and stuck at one or two cities.

Instead of going direct into GW mode, dancing your worker around (doing nothing, but seeing all your camps/roads pillaged), you can expedite the whole thing by researching bronze working while building your first worker. If you are relying on metal (for Gallic Warriors, or vultures for example), you can quit here if you don't see copper within the third ring. Restart.

Don't scout with your starting scout or warrior! The longer you wait to meet (and declare war on) your rivals, the less likely they are to start spamming archers.

After building the GWall, delete all but one of your warriors. Save cash. Either that, or send them off on suicide mission to find and choke some neighbors. You want 2 workers. More than that is a waste, imo (but I'm just telling you how to win, not how to post the fastest time).

You will build barracks, granary, stable (ger), and dun. No other buildings at all. Only units. Note, don't buyild regular walls... if the AI are doing well enough to send stacks your way, the game is lost eventually anyhow.

You will turn off reseach completely after Construction. Forget ideas about rifles or whatever... you will die if you need any tech beyond construction. Getting Math before clear-cutting is good, but don't wait that long. Chop forests in checkerboard pattern to maximize forest regrowth. After improving your handful of resources, chopping is all you want to do with your workers. Barbs will build any roads you may want to use in neutral space.

You will need catapults for the last cities, which will have 60% culture defense and about 4 or more archers with 4 promos each. So plan on teching to construction as fast as possible (Oracle may be an option, but I couldn't make that work... every hammer into units is the only way). Settling your first GSpy is good for tech... but it depends on whether your warriors have found some targets or not whether using him to scout is a goood idea or not.

Barbs are your friends... avoid all battles with barbs that you can. Exception is barb warriors, (and archers on flat) which should be viewed as free XP. The only time you attack a barb city is if you are in need of cash to prevent strike. Take the time to pillage while healing... you'll be happy for the cash later, even if you have 350 gold in the bank now.

Your first GG makes your scout into a super-medic. Note, Jaguars can get woody3 making a super-medic less imperitive, but Jags are too weak in my experience, so forget that.

You will want to clobber your closest two neighbors first becaus ethey have been at war with you longest and have therefore been in war-mode longest. They are also the closest source of cash for you, and you can get there quickest meaning that you can succeed with fewer units (getting there even quicker). Remember, the more open space, the bigger the barb problem for the AI.

My winning game was with Hannibal and Numidian Cavalry. Note, I've never had anything good to say about the Numies before, but on this map they seem to work quite well. They have bonus against melee, and barb spear (swords later) are one of the worst attrition factors. It really helps. Best of all, they are immune to first strikes, and AI tend to give a whole bunch of first-strike promos that do nothing to you. Protective civs seem easiest to kill, actually. Who'd have thought that? Not me! :lol: Numies start with flanking-1, and a 20% withdraw chance, so getting them to 50% survival rate is just one promo away. Note, it isn't so much the hammer cost of the units as the time cost of getting them to the farthest civ that you need to guard.

First stack should comprise about 8 Numies or whatever you prefer. It will kill one civ, then probably head to the second neighbor and start pillaging until reinforcement (with your new GG) arrive.

Then you build a stack of about 12 units (more is better!) and start them on a trek to the farthest corner of the map. (All four corners of the map will have a civ, and you will almost never start in the middle, so it doesn't matter where you start). There are usually two farthest. One will be having barb trouble, tghe other will be up to about 3 cities and have horses or metals on-line. Pillage the strat resources before doing anything else.

ABSOLUTLEY DO NOT get sidetracked by kills of opportunity that would cause some attrition. You will need every unit at your destination! Pillage mercilessly, yes! Attack anything at less than 90% odds, NEVER (except when taking out a city, at which point bad odds are part of the deal)! This is how I lose many games... by arriving at the far civ with too few units to do the job. Poor discipline!

BTW: If you already have 2 GG-medic, then settle rest of GG and get higher promo units right from the start.

Do NOT send units off one-by-one. Always minimum of 3. More is better, and the farther away they will go, the longer you should wait to make the stack bigger before departure. One unit should have +1 visibility to avoid stopping next to a barb unit that can kill you. Slow and alive is better than fast and dead. In fact, I did not like Gallic Warriors because they are too slow if you try to protect them from barb axes, and attrition too high if you don't. Haven't figured out the proper formula, I guess. Horses can avoid barb spears easier, and spears are fewer. Also, the Numie traits help alleviate that (compared to keshiks, you'll lose about 40% fewer Numies to spears).

If ever your stack gets so low that it would require a lot of luck to take that last AI city... resist the temptation. Don't do it! Live to fight another day. Keep him choked until the next stack can get there. Or if the civ is sufficiently weak and is getting choked by barbs, you can start choking/pillaging the next civ instead. Disciplined armies are required!

You will win the game when your catapults reach the intermediate civs. If the farthest civs are still alive but choked, your cats do not usually have to travel too much further (and have barbarian roads to use).

Summary: Closest civs first by UU or chosen swarming unit/farthest civs by bigger stack of UU or chosen swarming unit next/ middle civs by cats and whatever has lasted this long (and you will likely be struggling to avoid strike at this point). Two cats for each city works if you aren't in a hurry. Never suicide your last cat in the area until the last city is going to be captured for certain... they take a long time to get there, and culture borders kill you.

Hope this helps some of you. Good luck, and have fun! :goodjob:

There is lots and lots of really good advice in that post kcd, sounds like you did it tough.

You will need catapults for the last cities...

Note, Jaguars can get woody3 making a super-medic less imperitive, but Jags are too weak in my experience, so forget that.



Some of your advice is good, but not the above.

355AD first lazy attempt with Monty. Jags only.

masonary-mining-BW-IW-poly-priest-writing-(oracle)->CoL...

The start had stone and deer but was lacking gems...so that slowed me down quite a bit getting to IW and CoL. Lost several units on strike before I could get CoL / caste up. Had to build pyramids to speed up IW.

With gems, the main bottlenecks in my game go away and BC finish should be possible.

I can see merits in Neilmesiter's Boudica/Gwarriors/Charisma too. Maybe that will win. But I think Monty/Jags is just as easy and you don't need to re-roll to have bronze/iron in the cultural borders.

cas

Monty BC is possible, but so map dependent. If one civ is semi-shielded from barbs in a corner with bronze/iron, you have to suicide too many units.

Rolled an ok map with Augustus Caesar. stone, 2 deer, gold in the BFC. iron in the 3rd ring. Barbs didn't finish off any civs, but they did a good job weakening two of them. Unfortunately, 3 civs were against the eastern edge of the map and I was on the western edge. 145AD finish still beats Neilmesiter by 2 turns. :mischief:

I'll try this one again if I can get a stone start with non-forested gold/gem in the middle part of the map. Starting far west or far east it is very difficult to get to the last civ(s) in BC with enough units for the kill.

cas

Hah! I can't wait to give this a go. Haven't attempted OCC since my ladder days (at least then all the other humans just had one city too)! Thanks for all the input. I come to some of these Challenger games and I'm like gah! I have no idea how to approach that so its good to get some good starting tips :)

Edit: Re-rolling. For. Stone. Is. Tedious.

Edit: Re-rolling. For. Stone. Is. Tedious.

Rerolling is devil. Mapfinder is God.

Rerolling is devil. Mapfinder is God.

Just discovered it. I am praying to him for a plains hill stone start with four food and a couple of gems. Fresh water would be nice too ;) And praising him for his sheer awesomeness and for making my life so much easier!

(Has anyone seen PH stone on Boreal btw? After many many tries I have only seen stone on plains.)

Here is a link to all of the entries from the first go around. Five submissions were OCC.

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/adhoc_query.php?show=summ&condition[]=1&condition[]=2&condition[]=3&condition[]=6&condition[]=8&condition[]=9&condition[]=4&condition[]=5&difficulty[]=7&speed[]=3&mapSize[]=4&civ=17&maptype=14&era=-1&exp=0&pubID=148&submit=Go

Epic link is epic. Why would folk enforce OCC on themselves?? The only reason I can think of is that it guarantees national wonders early and reduces maintenance on a map where new cities are probably going to struggle to pay for themselves.

Just discovered it. I am praying to him for a plains hill stone start with four food and a couple of gems. Fresh water would be nice too ;) And praising him for his sheer awesomeness and for making my life so much easier!

(Has anyone seen PH stone on Boreal btw? After many many tries I have only seen stone on plains.)

Harness your mapfinder. If chosen, I personally injected a bit of my personal sadism into the next minor gauntlet... Same map type btw...:mischief:

Believe in mapfinder, have faith...;)

Good luck.

Ugh.. Boreal maps can be so evil.. Was doing quite well until I found Pacal, whose land is unreachable for my troops as it is protected by a big mountain range and a lake.. :mad:



Similar thing happened in my attempt. Washington's capital was completely inaccessible. Cut off by water in the corner.

Similar thing happened in my attempt. Washington's capital was completely inaccessible. Cut off by water in the corner.

Rainforest and boreal can be ridiculous at times given how randomized.

I once started in a corner along a few FP (4) and 2 gold plots, completely blocked by mountains. There was barely enough place to put three cities and go for culture? :lol:

It was rainforest.

Once, I saw a Zara stuck to one city on emperor (quick speed) until turn 65. FP had reason over him. :lol:

Rainforest again...

@kcd (i'm sure I remember your nick from the civplayers ladder btw!) Thanks so much for your advice. What are your thoughts on the Pyramids in this game? So far I haven't had much luck with strategic resources (which probably meant I should have reloaded sooner) so have had plenty of time to build them. Police state seems a strong option (if you're charismatic you can get away with not using Rep or HR for a little longer).

The map: make sure you are using settings that have LOW SEAS. High seas make for a maze that you have to navigate, lengthening the effective distance = time for opponents growth.

The option to adjust seas is grayed out for boreal for me.

^
Choose sea level with a map that allows it, then swap mapscript to boreal.
It works as weird it could be.

^
Choose sea level with a map that allows it, then swap mapscript to boreal.
It works as weird it could be.

Hehe. I would have never have thought of trying that.

(Has anyone seen PH stone on Boreal btw? After many many tries I have only seen stone on plains.)

yes, not very common.

Epic link is epic. Why would folk enforce OCC on themselves?? The only reason I can think of is that it guarantees national wonders early and reduces maintenance on a map where new cities are probably going to struggle to pay for themselves.

some of us like OCC.

I'm considering doing the entire series this time as OCC. Couple of games will be tough that route.

cas

[QUOTE=pixiejmcc;11359462]@kcd (i'm sure I remember your nick from the civplayers ladder btw!) Thanks so much for your advice. What are your thoughts on the Pyramids in this game? So far I haven't had much luck with strategic resources (which probably meant I should have reloaded sooner) so have had plenty of time to build them. Police state seems a strong option (if you're charismatic you can get away with not using Rep or HR for a little longer).

[QUOTE]

You remember me from the ladder? Wow... that's been a while ago. But if you remembered me well... why the heck would you want advice from me? :lol:

I know about the pyramids in this one. You have stone, and maybe are industrial, and they look so cheap. Then there's another wonder that looks cheap, and another, and so on. But even if you resist the temptation on all the other wonders, ideally you want this game all over but the cryiong long before the pyramids would provide a net benefit. So I recommend resisting the temptation there.

But what do I know? :crazyeye:

BTW: I found this site while looking for advice on how to be competitive in the ladder, actually. Found out about the single player competitions which suit me much better. Since then I haven't done much mp at all... so you must have a long memory! :goodjob:

Really interesting challenge game here. Only one I've tried so far, and may be the only one. Not much into some of these challenge setups this round.....well, I am going to try the Industrial game.

I"m never been particularly good at AW games, but this setup makes it actually pretty easy. That is, the Raging Barbs setup does a lot of the work for you. As long as you roll the appropriate start, victory should not be an issue - just when.

I went with Monty this game. My thinking here is that obvious weakness of the Jag would be surpassed by several strengths that match the map. Foremost is speed. On a map that is about 90% forest, you can't go wrong with a 2 move forest units. Second, the innate defense of the Jag proved invaluable, as the units were almost never killed in route to their destination. Many axes died to my Jags or often simply ignored them. Lastly, the ability to get an excellent medic so easily is very beneficial. For one, you can just settle your GG's or create canopeners instead. With Monty though, I'd settle the first GG since you already start with 2 promos - you get WoodyIII or WoodyII/CR1 out the gate. edit: Oh...and I guess I should add that the Jag not requiring a resource is pretty nice as well.

Another very nice thing about WoodyIII is that it is very solid in picking off archers as they move around outside of cities. I would often use stolen workers as bait to draw out archers and then pick them off with my medic. Helps get your medic to WIII/MII quickly, not to mention simply reducing AI defenses.

I think Monty may be the best option here. Mounted units I think would be a really bad idea. However, that doesn't mean my execution could not be much better.

Praets and GWs are strong too. The make up for slowness by being more effective in city attack. That is one thing that is bothersome about the Jag. I lost a lot of favorable battles which was annoying.

However, the key point here, which I used much more effectively in my second attempt, is the Jag is great for opportunistic attacks. You can wait 2 tiles outside a city and allow the barbs to hit the city first, then swoop in. This proved very effective, especially when the axe and swords show up. Overall, Jags allow a more tactical approach with this setup, even though they do indeed have their weakness.

I finished 130AD, but I think with better execution, favorable map layout, and better luck, this game could be finished on the BC side.

I went Masonry first, ofc. It's interesting that I usually finish GW just as the barbs are entering my border. First attempt, a warrior even pillaged a deer tile and attacked the city. Then straight to IW. From there it's TW and then on to Maths, but really doesn't matter at that point. AIs stay backwards for such a long time. Mids and Stonehenge time almost perfectly to finishing IW. I finish Mids first and run a little Rep before switching to Police State.

Most AIs in my games seem to struggle with barbs and rarely get out another city, although at least one AI gets 2 or 3 cities, which is a pain. I haven't had an AI die yet to barbs.

@Neil - I personally love the GW. I'm one of the few who think that they are better than Praets on most maps. I'm surprised you did not use the Guerrilla line of promos on them. It's really quite powerful. G3 rocks but one should not lose site of the fact that G2 can allow faster movement and some tactical options in certain situations.

Although I'm content with my date, I may try this again with good old Boudilicious GWs. Another interesting option is AC Woody Praets. IMP should give much faster GG to settle, which would give all your Praets WoodyII out the gate for faster movement after the slow ones take out a civ or two close by.

Other thoughts:

1) Other than killing one or two barbs initially for some free promos, I tend to try to avoid them, or basically ignore them. Killing them out in the field just slows you down as you have to heal, and these guys are just heading to an AI city anyway to do the work for you. Most of the time, the barbs just ignored my units zipping by them.

2) Police State and chops is awesome here. I did not do that in my first attempt. It made a huge difference....more so that having a larger city due to happiness. Also, I did switch to slavery, but really did not need it.

I finished 130AD, but I think with better execution, favorable map layout, and better luck, this game could be finished on the BC side.


Monty should finish first in this challenge when someone strikes the jackpot with the right combo of map/RNG. I'd guess 300BC-500BC range. I had several attempts with Monty ruined by (a) map layout - turtled civ in a corner with bronze/iron and 5-6 axe or (b) bad RNG luck against archers first 1-2 civs. Monty is the fastest out of the gate, but needs to take out the first two civs with few casualties so a large chunk of your initial jags can be promoted with CR1/cover and be more effective against AI 3 & 4.

Boudica/Gwarriors I gave up because there just aren't enough hills to move fast. I'd rather use Praets with wood2 (after settling the first GG) and promote them to cover or CR1 after they kill barbs or survive their first city attack. Praets have high odds against barb warriors/archers...even attacking into woods.

cas

Yep, that was my problem with Monty. I had terrible luck with the first couple of civs that decimated my stacks, which really hampers one's momentum. However, on the second attempt, I had a bit more success and ended up with a reasonably promoted stack that could move fast around the map. RNG is definitely a big factor.

Praets will obviously be more successful but slower. I attempted AC 2 or 3 times. However, despite decent stone starts, I never got iron so I lost patience with it.

Not exploring and not meeting AIs really helps with this too I think. Let the barbs do the work on them.

Yep, that was my problem with Monty. I had terrible luck with the first couple of civs that decimated my stacks, which really hampers one's momentum. However, on the second attempt, I had a bit more success and ended up with a reasonably promoted stack that could move fast around the map. RNG is definitely a big factor.

Praets will obviously be more successful but slower. I attempted AC 2 or 3 times. However, despite decent stone starts, I never got iron so I lost patience with it.

Not exploring and not meeting AIs really helps with this too I think. Let the barbs do the work on them.

Yeah, and there is no need to explore, really. Just follow the barbs. They always know where your opponents are. :lol: