http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/ef1507c8027db50585344e0a6bd72d94.jpg
Appears to be the Terracotta Army concept art. Confirmed by 2K unique URL alias.
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/f281b1cc5749654e855d43db59382dce.jpg
Petra. Confirmed by 2K unique URL alias.
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/ba0e8ef5226d63fa5d514128103b9de8.jpg
Great Mosque of Djenné, confirmed by 2K unique URL alias.
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/47211b5983250e7cd50dc35618e3a685.jpg
'Espionage Overview'; activities are 'Establishing Surveillance, Counter-intelligence, Rigging Election.
'Coup' button is available for Bucharest.
Flight tech unlocks two air units.
Cities in the background can be seen to have a cross symbol.
Antwerp in the background has a triangle icon and a blue bar under the city banner.
Looks like an espionage button in the top-right corner next to the social policy button.
Machine Gun icon in bottom left corner.
Icon up the top next to culture counter; could be 'faith' as described in the announcement.
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/b3347b98b6d162aa7f47f4f155f7ecde.jpg
'Religion Overview'; bunch of religious symbols across the top. 'Christianity' selected and blacked out.
'Founder Belief', 'Follower Belief', '2nd Founder Belief', 'Enhancer Belief', 'Bonus Belief'. '2nd Founder' and 'Enhancer' unlocked by 'enhancing religion'.
Byzantines apparently in the game, with the 'Bonus Belief' available to them. UA?
List of social policy like bonuses on the right-hand side.
Iron Working unlocks The Colossus.
Pictish Warrior unit, before Iron Working is discovered. Celt UU?

Religion Symbols:

Buddhism
Christianity
Confucianism.
Hinduism
Islam
Judaism
Shintoism
Sikhism.
Taoism
Mesoamerican religion?
Zoroastrianism


http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/6287442e8b2a667821e64bdbdcbd3e25.jpg
Combustion unlocks some WWI-type tank.
Just under that you can see what looks like a spy icon under the city state city banner.
Infantry looks different.
Machine-gun units. They're ranged.
Notification indicates an election rigged, increasing influence, decreasing opponent influence.
http://downloads.2kgames.com/2kgames/uploads/images/community/ingame_william_sm-14311-cropped.jpg
William of the Dutch.
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/d98e8d45c8eb8869d6dd22f886d7456b.jpg
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/105d85b5073c26ac58806f7ebc1a93a2.jpg

What can you find in the pictures?

I'll try and compile the info in the OP. :)

Three wonders: Terracotta army, Petra and Great Mosque of Djenné?

Cut-paste from other thread:
Studying them closer, look at those techs being researched. Iron working will unlock 3 different units/buildings rather then just 2, but I can't make out what the 3rd could be. It looks like swordman-heroic epic-colossus-iron resource.
Combustion will unlock destroyers and some type of tank that looks different from the current ones, but it's hard to tell if that's a UU replacing the tank or if it's an early tank with "proper" ones being moved further up the tree. That one kinda looks like a very early one, but hard to tell with such a small picture.Yeah, it really looks like the British WW1-tank: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_I_tank
------------------------
where do you see Byzantines in the religion screen? Or can you tell by the symbol?

where do you see Byzantines in the religion screen? Or can you tell by the symbol?

it says on the bottom "religious policy"(?). "Only available to Byzantines".

it seems flight enables two different fighters.

Is that a new resource to the very far left of Cardiff (on the screenshot with combustion/machine gun) or is that just iron?

Lisbon as a city state, could suggest that one of the old city states is bumped up to a full civ.
Also saw Antwerp as a city state.

However it could also be that these two are just the new mercantile or religious ones.

Looks like the city-state influence bar has received a graphics overhaul, unless that's for one of the new mechanics.

Lisbon as a city state, could suggest that one of the old city states is bumped up to a full civ.
Also saw Antwerp as a city state.Well that will rule out both Portugal and Belgium als new civs.

Also, this 'bonus belief available to the Byzantines only' suggests that this is the Byzantine UA?

I am really happy that the dutch in there and willem looks pretty nice just like in those days

Well that will rule out both Portugal and Belgium als new civs.

You didn't really expect Belgium as a new civ when there are only 9 open slots ^^?

Edit: Religion Symbols:

Buddhism
Christianity
Update: Confucianism.
Hinduism
Islam
Judaism
Shintoism
Update: Sikhism.
Taoism
Mesoamerican religion?
Update: Zoroastrianism


What are the others?

On the screenshot with the religion screen you can see Dublin as a Celtic city. This would imply Dublin has been removed as a city. You can also just make out the lower half of a symbol next to the city name that doesn't match any of the religion symbols, it looks to me like a lightning bolt.

You didn't really expect Belgium as a new civ when there are only 9 open slots ^^?

I had a feeling that that belgium wasn't a new civ it was a part of Netherlands when it was at it full power. When willem was at power and thats the leader that they are going to chose for netherlands I thinx.

So it would be kinda wierd if they add belgium with it .


However I hope that they some day add it and use this in the description:
Many important battles have been fought in you're countries like the battle of waterlo, battles of world war 1, and so on

Its true Belgium is a country where a lot of important battles have been taken place in Europe

I just hoped that the belgium wonder atomium was in the game :(

I am really happy that the dutch in there and willem looks pretty nice just like in those daysThe Dutch have a unique tile improvement where they can reform marsh to fertile plains and a unique unit, a ship that can steal gold from harbors and convert other ships (like the Ottoman UA maybe?)

Source (Google Translated) (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamer.nl%2Fpreview%2F247129%2Fc ivilization-v-gods-kings&act=url)

3rd religion is Confucianism.
8th religion is Sikhism.
11th religion is Zoroastrianism.

10th has me stumped. Looks like mesoamerican.

The cross next to most city names is identical to the Christianity symbol in the religion overview, I guess it makes the city Christian.
Orleans has one of the other religious symbols

Edit: Religion Symbols:

Buddhism
Christianity
? The third icon somewhat looks like the machinegun icon, so I'd say it's machinegunism :p

Rigged elections seem to be a city state thing, and Brussels is mentioned in that. So I'd say that definitely rules out Belgium as a civ.

Moved to the new forum.

I won't have time to update the OP tonight this morning, but will attempt to tomorrow. :)

3rd religion is Confucianism.
8th religion is Sikhism.
11th religion is Zoroastrianism.

10th has me stumped. Looks like mesoamerican.

Thanks, updated :).

No pastafarianism? :(

Thanks, updated :).

Btw you've listed 12 religions, but theres only 11 icons.

Already fixed, thanks :).

No atheism? I hope it will be available as a Renaissance-based tech or culture trait at least. Rationalism as it is now wont be enough, unless Piety tree will be removed completely.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 10th was some kind of generic "Paganism" or "Animism" religion. Under the current system, civs like Greece, Rome, all the Native American civs etc get kinda left out.

Also if there is Judaism there better at least be a Jerusalem city-state.

By the way The_J, the other two leaders are Boudicca and Pacal the Great.

So Antwerp is a Mercentile CS, and Cardiff a religious one, based on the icon at the right on the name.

Cardiff looks to be as part of the Celtic city list.

Also, those wonder 'concept art' I believe are in fact the splash screens. Also note the new Baroque-inspired interface features

Take a look at the river into ocean connection on one of those screenshots. It appears they fixed the color issue.

ALSO: No new font icons anywhere. The ICON_PEACE is being used for religion, and ICON_TRADE for mercantile city states. This really concerns me as a modder in terms of being able to ever add our own.

when does this update come out? and do we have to pay for this and if so how much do you think this would cost.

"Late spring" (no finer detail)
$29.99, which probably equates to the same in Euros or £15-£20

when does this update come out? and do we have to pay for this and if so how much do you think this would cost.

"Late spring", $29.99.

In several of the in-game screenshots, the progress bar at the bottom of City-State labels has sections demarcated. If it's the same idea as vanilla Civ V, this bar indicates the player's level of influence over that City-State. This represents a change from Civ V currently, where that progress bar doesn't have any demarcations.

I suspect that the ways you can relate with City-States have been changed, with more possibilities besides the current "war," neutral," "friends," and "allies." The new demarcations would make it easier to know, at a glance, what your status is.

Take a look at the river into ocean connection on one of those screenshots. It appears they fixed the color issue.

ALSO: No new font icons anywhere. The ICON_PEACE is being used for religion, and ICON_TRADE for mercantile city states. This really concerns me as a modder in terms of being able to ever add our own.
Maybe these are just placeholders? The dove icon doesn't fit "faith" well. And I think adding new icons should be possible as long as we have SDK?

was it really necessary to move the Colossus....goodbye coastal OCC :(

ah well it's pretty minor and everything is pretty exciting.

was it really necessary to move the Colossus....goodbye coastal OCC

What? Where do you see that?

according to Camikaze's OP it's now unlocked by iron working

The second to last religious symbol reminds me of the Birdman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Ceremonial_Complex#Birdman) or at least some other falcon iconography from Native American religions. That's my guess anyway.

It doesn't really have a name for a religion, so Animism, Mississippian, or Native American strikes me as the most likely. I doubt they'll use "Southeastern Ceremonial Complex."

The second to last religious symbol reminds me of the Birdman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Ceremonial_Complex#Birdman) or at least some other falcon iconography from Native American religions. That's my guess anyway.

It doesn't really have a name for a religion, so Animism, Mississippian, or Native American strikes me as the most likely. I doubt they'll use "Southeastern Ceremonial Complex."

"Tengriism" is the suggestion on the 2k forums.

it seems flight enables two different fighters.

Looking closely at the left one, it looks to me as if it's a sea plane. I think I can make out red pontoons on it.

EDIT: Scratch that. The red things that I thought were the front of the pontoons look to be wheels and the "pontoons" are just background shading.

ALSO: No new font icons anywhere. The ICON_PEACE is being used for religion, and ICON_TRADE for mercantile city states. This really concerns me as a modder in terms of being able to ever add our own.
Could you clarify what you mean by this, please? What are font icons?
according to Camikaze's OP it's now unlocked by iron working

In one of the screenshots you can see Iron Working being researched in the background, and the Colossus is attached to that.

Spies and religion are nice, but I was hoping for changes to the UI and diplomacy too. Oh well. Nice theme for an expansion, and it is coming out soon, which is good I suppose.

ALSO: No new font icons anywhere. The ICON_PEACE is being used for religion, and ICON_TRADE for mercantile city states. This really concerns me as a modder in terms of being able to ever add our own.

This is a pretty lousy icon to use as a general religion icon for obvious reasons (1/2 of the religion effects they have already revealed are combat related). Even this :religion: is better. This leads me to speculate that it is just a placeholder. Icons are certainly the very last thing on my mod's "low priority" list. I bet this will change a few weeks before release.

"Tengriism" is the suggestion on the 2k forums.

Well, that would be Mongolian in that case, which strikes me as a bit odd. Even then, Shamanism seems better than Tengriism.

BTW, regarding the Colossus, Iron Working makes more sense chronologically. It might also fit better with the new wonders added (probably Petra with Bronze Working).

Totemism, perhaps? It must be something between Taoism and Zoroastrianism, alphabetically.

I saw a link in another thread. Tengriism seems fairly clear cut as the option. I think Native American religions will just fall under the spirtual polytheism that the game starts with.

I could see Jainism or Baha'i instead, but I'm not too picky at that point.

Sorry for the double post, but I got reminded of another thought related to the screenshots.

Given that the Machinegun is a ranged unit, it makes me think that they may have added a line of such units to allow Archers to upgrade. The alternative is that it's an outlier, but there are a lot of possibilities, so that is one.

What would the connection be, though? Straight from Crossbows to Machine Guns?

Sorry for the double post, but I got reminded of another thought related to the screenshots.

Given that the Machinegun is a ranged unit, it makes me think that they may have added a line of such units to allow Archers to upgrade. The alternative is that it's an outlier, but there are a lot of possibilities, so that is one.

I hope there is a new upgrade path from archer-crossbow to machine gun. I can't stand having to update my double attack crossbows to riflemen who get no use of any the upgrades.

With 27 new units, maybe they'll have mortars? It doesn't matter to me, as long as there's an upgrade path that makes use of the promotions or converts them.

What would the connection be, though? Straight from Crossbows to Machine Guns?

The Renaissance or early gunpowder unit is definitely the most tricky.

Well, when I suggested this before, I suggested:
Crossbow --> Light Cannon --> Mortar (as opposed to machinegun) --> RPG
Others suggested:
Crossbow --> Grenadier --> Machinegun

I'm sure those are not the only two options, although no one has suggested one to me before. Given that machineguns don't really have greater range than infantry rifles, there might be a good argument for grenadier.

I don't see where any of you see that Lisbon is a city state. Are you all confusing this with Lhasa? All I see is Lhasa and Antwerp.

Fourth spoiler, right hand side of espionage overview, down the bottom there are a list of cities. Persian cities and two city states. Hanoi and Lisbon.

Another interesting note about the machine gun unit is that its ranged attack is the same as melee. Until now, every ranged land unit has had much lower melee strength, which made them vulnerable to direct attack. That means this machine gun would be strangely powerful since it can attack at range and have an equally good defensive rating.
Assuming that the range/melee combat system hasn't changed, my only thought (and I'm really flying while blind here) is that maybe its range is 1. As in, it could attack adjacent tiles without damage repercussion. This would give the unit a unique role in combat, and might explain the damage ratio. I really have no idea, I'm just thinking out loud. Or rather thinking through silent typing...

I believe the penultimate religious symbol to be Totemism. The symbol used for Totemism is normally of a totem pole with outstretched wings - the civ icon looks like that too. Additionally, it fits alphabetically and gives the American civs a fitting religion!

Assuming that the range/melee combat system hasn't changed, my only thought (and I'm really flying while blind here) is that maybe its range is 1. As in, it could attack adjacent tiles without damage repercussion. This would give the unit a unique role in combat, and might explain the damage ratio.

It's said what the combat system was revised and there could be quite big changes. They changed the melee-ranged system for naval units, probably something was changed for land ones as well.

The numbers were changed - 60 is very big for pre-combustion unit, especially if it's ranged. I think they shifted them to make more space for new unit. However, in this theory pre-iron Celtic unit with strength 11 is quite strange.

Spies earn promotions.

The second aircraft under Flight is almost certainly a bomber. Looks like a Gotha. (The first is a Fokker triplane.)

http://www.well-of-souls.com/civ/images/wwi_flight.jpg

However, in this theory pre-iron Celtic unit with strength 11 is quite strange.I was under the assumption that the Pict Warrior would be a Swordman-replacement? (same strength, but probably an extra ability)
Edit: Ah, i see the screenshot, it's before iron working is discovered. Maybe a gift from a CS? To me it would make a lot of sense that it'd be a swordsman replacement.

Maybe they get it at Construction or Mathematics instead? That's assuming there isn't a new Technology at which they receive the unit.

Edit: Ah, i see the screenshot, it's before iron working is discovered. Maybe a gift from a CS? To me it would make a lot of sense that it'd be a swordsman replacement.

I think we got the winner here. Look at it this way: The screenshot with the Pictish Warrior is light and dark blue with a Mayan-like symbol. The screenshot with machine guns has Cardiff, which is blue and green with a more Celtish-looking symbo. Just pure speculation, but I think the first civ is Maya with a gifted UU.

The screenshot with machine guns has Cardiff, which is blue and green with a more Celtish-looking symbo.Well spotted!
Indeed, although the colours look the same (blue-greenish), one is an obvious Celtic symbol (Cardiff), where the other, the Pict Warrior, is indeed probably Mayan.
Apparently the symbol of Hunab Ku:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Maya_calendar_%28Hunab-Ku%29.svg/220px-Maya_calendar_%28Hunab-Ku%29.svg.png

I'm betting those triplanes are an early bomber, because if they were a UU, we wouldn't see both the triplane and biplane icon in the same tech.

Triplane Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triplane)
Bombers and transports

The Caproni Ca.4 of 1917 entered service with the Italian air force as a heavy bomber in 1918. It was a successful design for its day and many variants were produced. Later on, after the war, Caproni re-numbered many of these variants as new types. The unsuccessful Caproni Ca.60 prototype transatlantic seaplane had three sets of triplane wings taken from the Ca.4, making nine wings in all, and is generally classified as a multiplane.

From 1918, Bristol developed a series of heavy triplanes which, like the Caproni design, appeared in different variants aimed at different roles.[1] The first was the Bristol Braemar bomber, flying in 1918 with the Mk II version in 1919. The Bristol Pullman 14-seat transport variant flew in 1920. This was followed by two examples of a new, larger design for a military freighter - the Bristol Tramp.

The Tarrant Tabor, another and much larger British bomber, was built with three wings to carry the 6 engines required. It crashed on its maiden flight in 1919. Its designer Walter Barling went on to create the similar-sized American Witteman-Lewis XNBL-1, known as the "Barling Bomber", which first flew in 1923.

I think we got the winner here. Look at it this way: The screenshot with the Pictish Warrior is light and dark blue with a Mayan-like symbol. The screenshot with machine guns has Cardiff, which is blue and green with a more Celtish-looking symbo. Just pure speculation, but I think the first civ is Maya with a gifted UU.
I don't think so as you would see in the screenshot with PW you can see PW have same green background with Dublin. So we can assume it's celts who have the PW in question.

I don't think so as you would see in the screenshot with PW you can see PW have same green background with Dublin. So we can assume it's celts who have the PW in question.I'm not sure, I think the symbol the Pict Warrior has does look a lot like the Hunab Ku-symbol I posted a few posts back. Tilted 45 degrees, removing the spiral in the middle and the outward 'rays'.

I'm not sure, I think the symbol the Pict Warrior has does look a lot like the Hunab Ku-symbol I posted a few posts back. Tilted 45 degrees, removing the spiral in the middle and the outward 'rays'.
But it is the unit symbol not the symbol of the civilization who has the unit.

Question about the new planes.

Could the other one be a UU? Austria?

Or a its a new uu for Germany, Landsknecht going for...
Holy Roman empire?

But it is the unit symbol not the symbol of the civilization who has the unit.D'oh! Silly me.

I'm surprised no one googled the pictish warrior. The first hit is to Wikipedia article about the "Picts" which seem to be a celt tribe that used to live in northern scotland. It is also said that they are usually said to be tattooed. Im no expert but the symbol looks celtic to me. So I'm gessing it is celtic UU.

I'm surprised no one googled the pictish warrior. The first hit is to Wikipedia article about the "Picts" which seem to be a celt tribe that used to live in northern scotland. It is also said that they are usually said to be tattooed. Im no expert but the symbol looks celtic to me. So I'm gessing it is celtic UU.Of course, but the question is, is it a pre-iron unit?
The screenshot where you see the PW also has Iron being researched, which makes it highly intruiging :)

And slightly nitpicking :p It's not fully sure if the Picts originally were a Celtic-related civ, some say the Picts later merged with the Celts.

Pictish Warriot can be a pikeman replacement, and an upgrade from ruins could explain its early existence.
BTW I doubt CIA analyzes Satellite images this through :)

My guess is that the Pict Warrior is the Celtic UU, and that you get him at Bronze working.
Wonder what his special promotions are.

BTW I doubt CIA analyzes Satellite images this through :)Hehehe, indeed.

My guess is that the Pict Warrior is the Celtic UU, and that you get him at Bronze working.Could be, but (unless all values are reworked) it would be an immensly strong unit, combat strenght of spearman (7), hoplite (9) and immortal (8) are a lot lower.
Swordsman has a value of 11, so to me it would make more sense that the Pict is a swordsman replacement with a special ability.

But I could be wrong of course, especially if they truly overhauled the combat system it could make sense the combat strenght is revalued.

==========================

and something different I just read on the 2K-forums (http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?118085-Expansion-pack-announced-Civilization-V-Gods-amp-Kings&p=1507519#post1507519):
In the article linked above by gseth, the caption of the second sreenshot says that "New mercantile city-states have access to luxury resources you can't find elsewhere". Can we get a confirmation on that? It seems that city-states will become even more important if this turns out to be true.It's about this article:
http://asia.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gods-and-kings/previews/gods-and-kings-brings-big-changes-to-civilization-v-6350514/

I didn't notice it either, but if it's true it'll make CS'es even more interesting.

But I could be wrong of course, especially if they truly overhauled the combat system it could make sense the combat strenght is revalued.

This could be true, I found 60 strenght a little much for machine gun too.

As unit health is increased from 10 to 100 (so a more fine-tuned damage model is possible) and as there are new WWI units, they could have very well spread the strength range between early and late units.

Regarding mashineguns as range unit:
Oh, I *really* hope, that they only have range 1! This would be an interesting new tactical concept: "sort of" a meele attack without any danger of being damaged.
Any larger range would be just stupid, as it would contradict the whole idea of range combat.(Which is all about *balistic* shooting - which MGs do *not*!)

Therefore, I don't hope they are in an upgrade path with crossbows - as much as I want to see an unit for this...

What would the connection be, though? Straight from Crossbows to Machine Guns?

Perhaps one of the other new units is the Grenadier, making the upgrade path in 5 the same as it was in 4. Archer > Crossbow > Grenadier > Machine Gun.

I was under the assumption that the Pict Warrior would be a Swordman-replacement? (same strength, but probably an extra ability)
Edit: Ah, i see the screenshot, it's before iron working is discovered. Maybe a gift from a CS? To me it would make a lot of sense that it'd be a swordsman replacement.

I think we got the winner here. Look at it this way: The screenshot with the Pictish Warrior is light and dark blue with a Mayan-like symbol. The screenshot with machine guns has Cardiff, which is blue and green with a more Celtish-looking symbo. Just pure speculation, but I think the first civ is Maya with a gifted UU.

It can't be a gifted unit, since CS's only gift units that you have the tech for. If it requires a resource you also have to have some of that resource to spare.

There was mention of the unit hit-points going up to 100 instead of just 10. This would account for a pre-iron unit having a higher strength than we're used to as well as the machine-gun having 60 for both ranged and combat strength.

Question about the new planes.

Could the other one be a UU? Austria?

Or a its a new uu for Germany, Landsknecht going for...
Holy Roman empire?

If one of them is a UU, we'd still only see 1 plane in the tech panel. The civ with that as a UU sees their UU, while every other civ sees the normal unit the UU replaced. No-one ever see both the normal unit and one civ's UU. Therefore, they must be a fighter and a bomber. Based on the historical roles of biplanes and triplanes, the triplane would most likely be the bomber.

Regarding mashineguns as range unit:
Oh, I *really* hope, that they only have range 1! This would be an interesting new tactical concept: "sort of" a meele attack without any danger of being damaged.
Any larger range would be just stupid, as it would contradict the whole idea of range combat.(Which is all about *balistic* shooting - which MGs do *not*!).

This makes absolutely no sense. Even the earliest firearms had a longer range than bows. Rifled barrels further increased both the range and accuracy. Therefore it'd make more send for the machine gun to have a range of 3.

What you're describing is indirect fire which is one of the higher tiered promotions for ranged units. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find the machinegun isn't allowed to have that promotion. If a ranged unit with indirect fire is upgraded to the machinegun, it'll probably just be a wasted promotion.

Regarding mashineguns as range unit: (Which is all about *balistic* shooting - which MGs do *not*!)

Actually, I remember hearing somewhere that MGs were used for ballistic fire in WW1 to nail people in trenches. So it's not 100% far-fetched. I don't know how much it's used nowadays though.

I don't know if anyone else has done this, but I tried looking at the mini-maps to see if they revealed the colour schemes of any of the new civilisations, but apart from the Celts (who are quite clearly shown to have bluish-green + light blue), it seems that 2k/Firaxis didn't slip up and reveal any more new ones. Shame, it might have generated some interesting speculation as to who they might belong to.

If anyone wants to double-check, screenshots 4 and 6 appear to show: Persia, the Celts, France, Egypt, Babylon and Spain, while screenshot 5 just shows the Celts and Germany.

This makes absolutely no sense. Even the earliest firearms had a longer range than bows. Rifled barrels further increased both the range and accuracy. Therefore it'd make more send for the machine gun to have a range of 3.

What you're describing is indirect fire which is one of the higher tiered promotions for ranged units. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find the machinegun isn't allowed to have that promotion. If a ranged unit with indirect fire is upgraded to the machinegun, it'll probably just be a wasted promotion.

Sorry, but this has been discussed to death already. If ranged combat in CiV would be about distance, *all* gunpowder units (maybe except Musketeers) should be ranged units! As this is not the case, there must be a different (game) concept.
Call it "indirect fire" if you like - it is all about shooting projectiles over the heads of your own troopes in a ballistic trajectory.

So, if this is true:

Actually, I remember hearing somewhere that MGs were used for ballistic fire in WW1 to nail people in trenches. So it's not 100% far-fetched. I don't know how much it's used nowadays though.

... (I never heard about this fact, but this doesn't say anything) there might be some reason behind MGs as ballistic weapons. But at least for me, this is not the first thing, that would come into my mind.

I don't know if anyone else has done this, but I tried looking at the mini-maps to see if they revealed the colour schemes of any of the new civilisations, but apart from the Celts (who are quite clearly shown to have bluish-green + light blue), it seems that 2k/Firaxis didn't slip up and reveal any more new ones. Shame, it might have generated some interesting speculation as to who they might belong to.

If anyone wants to double-check, screenshots 4 and 6 appear to show: Persia, the Celts, France, Egypt, Babylon and Spain, while screenshot 5 just shows the Celts and Germany.

It's a fairly safe bet to say the Dutch are going to be some shade of orange.

... (I never heard about this fact, but this doesn't say anything) there might be some reason behind MGs as ballistic weapons. But at least for me, this is not the first thing, that would come into my mind.

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_warfare#Machine_guns

What we think of as Machine guns are a good deal different from what they started out as.

I think he is right - machine guns will have range of 1. otherwise 60 str seems too high.

Kinda interesting that machine guns were used for indirect fire (from the wikipedia article), but that's the kind of detail that doesn't make it into civ games - doesn't fit in the typical mental image most people get when they think machine guns.

what do you think the star icon is that comes with flight?? Stars generally involves movement of some kind, embarkation, faster roads, bridges... of course they also can indicate tile improvement increases.

Maybe it refers to some sort of airlift??? although WW1 seems a little early for that.

what do you think the star icon is that comes with flight?? Stars generally involves movement of some kind, embarkation, faster roads, bridges... of course they also can indicate tile improvement increases.

Maybe it refers to some sort of airlift??? although WW1 seems a little early for that.

Perhaps allow the construction of airfields as a tile improvement...

The Pictish Warrior is certainly the Celtic unique unit.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/civ/images/pictish_warrior1.jpg http://www.well-of-souls.com/civ/images/pictish_warrior2.jpg

I realize that the screenshot implies that you get the Pict before Iron Working, but it's hard to imagine that a Str 11 classical unit with a sword is not a replacement for the Swordsman... it would be really silly to have a Str 11 Bronze Working unit and also a str 11 Iron Working unit. It's important to remember that these PR screenshots are usually mockups and not from real games. Case in point: there's no fog of war in any of the screens.

Question about the new planes. Could the other one be a UU? Austria? Or a its a new uu for Germany, Landsknecht going for...
Holy Roman empire?
Since the player in this screenshot is France, it doesn't seem likely they'd have a German aircraft for a unique unit.

Also worth mentioning is that we know the Celts' colours (in the first in-game screenshot).

So if those are two new units in terms of "Industrial" age does that mean 2K has worked on making the late game longer... No new techs, which is odd concerning Religion...

We need to remember that the combat has changed, so an 11 strength unit might be on par with the strength of a Spearman or Warrior

The city state in the Combustion screenshot is Antwerp and has a different symbol (Mercantile or religious city state?)

9 civilizations? I wonder if that includes the DLC. They listed 3+ Babylon,Inca,Spain,Korea,Denmark, Polynesia and not counting Mongols which everyone got for free would equal 9.

Anybody else find the spy names a little odd - "Gareth", "Mr. X", and "Scarlett" for the French? Seems a little off tone.

The city state in the Combustion screenshot is Antwerp and has a different symbol (Mercantile or religious city state?)

It's the same symbol as the trade routes, [ICON_CONNECTED], so I would presume it's Merchantile

I doubt the part about only the Byzantines being able to adopt the bonus belief hints at their UA. If that was the case, I think it would be a better design choice to just leave out the text about the bonus belief for all the civilizations that don't have that UA.

Instead, I think it's about the Byzantines having a particular affinity for Christianity, they're the first empire with a thoroughly Christian identity. Or something like that. So it kinda makes sense that the Byzantines would get the greatest advantage out of founding Christianity. I'm sure if you checked out, for instance, Confucianism, you would see that only China can get the bonus belief for that.

Bechold, there's gonna be new techs, in the very first Greg's post he writes so.

****

Hey Greg! I have never asked anything from you before! I just wanna know..
why the new infantry unit has a "yank" look and helmet, instead of the current british Tommy one?

Is there going to be some sort of trench infantry unit, or are there going to be some different graphic sets for units? This mystery keeps me wake at nights..

Hey Greg! I have never asked anything from you before! I just wanna know..
why the new infantry unit has a "yank" look and helmet, instead of the current british Tommy one?

Is there going to be some sort of trench infantry unit, or are there going to be some different graphic sets for units? This mystery keeps me wake at nights..

Mmm... perhaps era-specific unit graphics?

what do you think the star icon is that comes with flight?? Stars generally involves movement of some kind, embarkation, faster roads, bridges... of course they also can indicate tile improvement increases.

Maybe it refers to some sort of airlift??? although WW1 seems a little early for that.

The current star for flight is "Moai Gold yeild improved by 1" so it's probably still that.

I doubt the part about only the Byzantines being able to adopt the bonus belief hints at their UA. If that was the case, I think it would be a better design choice to just leave out the text about the bonus belief for all the civilizations that don't have that UA.

Instead, I think it's about the Byzantines having a particular affinity for Christianity, they're the first empire with a thoroughly Christian identity. Or something like that. So it kinda makes sense that the Byzantines would get the greatest advantage out of founding Christianity. I'm sure if you checked out, for instance, Confucianism, you would see that only China can get the bonus belief for that.

That was my initial thought too. However, one of the articles suggests that it's the Byzantines' UA:

When pressed, Beach noted that the Celts have the ability to gain additional faith when their cities are settled against a forest, while the Byzantines can purchase a bonus, sixth belief.

Source (http://asia.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gods-and-kings/previews/gods-and-kings-brings-big-changes-to-civilization-v-6350514/)

No pastafarianism? :(

Pity :lol:
I'm quite dissapointed that Portugal won't be a new civ.

9 civilizations? I wonder if that includes the DLC. They listed 3+ Babylon,Inca,Spain,Korea,Denmark, Polynesia and not counting Mongols which everyone got for free would equal 9.

I believe it will be 9 totally new ones.
They listed 4: Celts, Byzantines, Mayans, and Dutch (The Netherlands).

Terracotta Army, Petra, Djenne Mosque, that's 3 out of 9 new wonders

City-states
Antwerp new, now there are two Belgian cities as city states
Bucharest
Hanoi-no Vietnam :(
Lisbon new, and rules out Portugal as one of the nine new civs
Lhasa
Brussels

Lightning bolt symbol prolly represents paganism or Greco-Roman religion

9 news civs
Byzantines (Justinian or Theodora? speaking Medieval Greek)
can purchase a sixth bonus belief
possible units/buildings: Cataphract, hippodrome, dromon
Carthage (Hannibal? speaking Kabyle (Berber) like Carthage units last game)
possible units: Numidian mercenary/cavalry, cothon, some kind of war elephant
Celts (Boudica-she looks way better than Civ4 version, hopes she speaks Welsh, but Gaelic more likely)
cities: Dublin, Cardiff
symbol: some kind of Celtic knot?
ability to gain additional faith when cities are settled against forests
unit: Pictish Warrior their symbol is prolly Pictish
Dutch (Willem of Orange, speaking Dutch)
ship that steals gold from port cities and convert enemy ships (fluyt???East Indiaman???)
can convert wetlands to profitable fields
Mayan (Pakal apparently, though the background looks like Tikal, Pakal ruled Palenque)
possible units: Holkan, Ball court

That five out of nine
what are the other four...(I hope one of them is Ethiopia, they are tied to religion and would work in the medieval scenario)

Orleans is hindu.

I think it's Confucian, actually, when looking at the larger version

A couple of the pictures shows city defenses at 126 for Antwerp. This seems higher than usual.

Any guesess what the "Intrigue" tab is on the Espionage screen (we're currently looking at "Overview")?

A couple of the pictures shows city defenses at 126 for Antwerp. This seems higher than usual.

Unit Health Points are going to be raised to 100 as well.
Maybe to keep things in proportion?

Fantastic expansion. Finally! But Lisbon as a city state means no Portuguese civ... Big disappointment and highly unfair, can only be explain by commercial reasons. Civ V sells less in Portugal than in Holland, I suppose.
Come on… Portuguese is the fifth most spoken language nowadays and it was the first world empire were the “sun never sets”.
Will it be Brazilian civ instead?

Very nice analysis and a fun read.

Fantastic expansion. Finally! But Lisbon as a city state means no Portuguese civ... Big disappointment and highly unfair, can only be explain by commercial reasons. Civ V sells less in Portugal than in Holland, I suppose.
Come on… Portuguese is the fifth most spoken language nowadays and it was the first world empire were the “sun never sets”.
Will it be Brazilian civ instead?

No Portugal in this expansion but I would not rule it out in the future. Remember that there was a Seoul CS.

I wouldn't rule out Portugal.. I doubt they are 100% finished with the new expansion and may not have included all of the civ's yet in their screenshots. Maybe they aren't done with it yet and will add it before the expansion is released? Either that or DLC post expac.. they can't leave out one of the most influential empires in during colonialism.

Fantastic expansion. Finally! But Lisbon as a city state means no Portuguese civ... Big disappointment and highly unfair, can only be explain by commercial reasons. Civ V sells less in Portugal than in Holland, I suppose.
Come on… Portuguese is the fifth most spoken language nowadays and it was the first world empire were the “sun never sets”.
Will it be Brazilian civ instead?

Well, I don't think it's entirely commercial reasons. But I do agree that it would be between the Dutch and Portugal. Having both can be difficult because Portugal will blend into Spain, England, and the Dutch. Basically, unique playstyles are probably their priority.

I would assume they know what Civs are going in given that the biggest headache for the Art team would be the animated leaders.

I would assume the added civs will probably include at least one or two more European, with the highest probability being Austria given that there is an easy Female leader to give, and CivV has been careful to keep a high number of lady leads.

I would assume we will see one or two African civs, the Moors and Zulu being most likely, with Kongo close behind.

To continue the assumption set, I would guess one North American tribe, with Sioux being highest likelihood.

Insofar as Asian civs, the Lhasa and Hanoi CSs rule out two possibilities, leaving me to speculate on a left field civ like the Kazakh Khanate or Malacca

No Portugal in this expansion but I would not rule it out in the future. Remember that there was a Seoul CS.

Well, I don't think it's entirely commercial reasons. But I do agree that it would be between the Dutch and Portugal. Having both can be difficult because Portugal will blend into Spain, England, and the Dutch. Basically, unique playstyles are probably their priority.

Well, let’s hope they will do the same as they did with Seoul / Korea then.
Yes, maybe it would be one more civ like Spain, England or Holland but in Civ IV it was actually very well done (historically speaking) with the Nau (a bigger Caravel, actually able to get to India) as the unique unit and the Feitoria (fortified trading post) as the unique building. Also with a system similar to “Extended Era Mod” (my favorite mod so far for Civ V) it would give some meaning to have Civs with advantages in the same period of History.
I am Portuguese as you can guess and I hope no Dutch or Brazilian got offended with what I said. I was just so excited with the news and suddenly very disappointed when I saw Lisbon as a city state… I love to play with lots of Civs and will enjoy Holland and Brazil in the game, of course. ;)

If the Machine gun is comparable in strength to Infantry, that indicates a 66.7% increase in strength. If the Pictish Warrior is at the same 66.7% increase, then the 11 strength would be similar to 6 strength of the warrior/Jaguar/brute/Maori Warrior we have now, only slightly stronger as it would effectively be a 6.6 strength warrior. In other words a unique warrior that's 10% stronger than the regular warrior.

On the other hand, if the machine gun is comparable in strength to the Anti-tank gun and Anti-air gun, that's an 87.5% increase which would make the 11 strength comparable to 5.87 strength of units as we know them now. Thus a unique warrior that's slightly weaker than the regular warrior.

The screenshot of the Pictish Warrior also show 2 positive bonuses that probably account for the the difference in strength when compared to the regular warrior.

No matter which strength comparison is used for the machine gun, it's clear the Pictish warrior is a replacement for the warrior unit. Therefore it makes perfect sense for it to be around while researching iron working.

I suspect it's most likely the 66.7% (2/3) increase in strength. Thus we'd have infantry at 60 strength, tanks at 83 strength, Pikes at 16 strength, Archers at 7 combat 11 ranged strength, etc, etc.

second screenshot - trade caravan perhaps...
Would the return of trade caravans be welcomed and make sense?

from 2K Greg's post:
"In addition, Mercantile city-states will be attractive for those of you who love to grow your civilisation's treasury"

maybe there will be CS quests involving caravans

Great news ! I have one confusion. They did mentioned of new civs, military units & CS but not about new techs. Are they not going to overhaul the tech tree & add more complexity to it by adding new techs & interlinks so that beelining is not that strong.

Personally, to me it gets kinda boring that with every Civ iteration, we return to same Civs.

First, due to $$ constrains new game has less civs then previous iteration (this is normal). Then fans complain about their favorite civ is not there (or even worse, their favorite country). Then comes expansion that adds same civs that where there is previous installments.

Where are new fresh civs? I'm kinda sick that every civ game at the end gets same inca/maya/aztec trio, same colonial powers (spain, dutch, etc...), same mediterranians civs (cartage, byzantines, etc...).

It gets boring after while. OK?


P.S.
Personally, I'm always for more unique civs, then more similarly themed civs (aztec/maya, spain/portugeese, etc...). Even if those civs are more obscure.

No matter which strength comparison is used for the machine gun, it's clear the Pictish warrior is a replacement for the warrior unit.

Then why is it holding a sword?

Looks to me like the religions are in alphabetical order, so the Mesoamerican-looking religion is something that comes after "Taoism" and before "Zoroastrianism".

Looks to me like the religions are in alphabetical order, so the Mesoamerican-looking religion is something that comes after "Taoism" and before "Zoroastrianism".

So it could very well be Tengriism.

Great news ! I have one confusion. They did mentioned of new civs, military units & CS but not about new techs. Are they not going to overhaul the tech tree & add more complexity to it by adding new techs & interlinks so that beelining is not that strong.They are adding new techs, but they haven't made clear how many.
It will come as no surprise to those of you who are familar with expansion packs for previous Civilization games that Gods & Kings will add more techs, units, buildings, Wonders, and playable Civilizations

I understand the expansion is called "Gods" and Kings, but will there be an option to have your chosen civ as a non-religious society with corresponding bonuses?

In Civ4 BtS religion was optional for your chosen civ, but really, if you didn't go with a religion you were at a significant disadvantage, just due to the massive amounts of money it brought in if nothing else.

It'd be nice if there was an option for "secularism" (for example) instead of a state religion, which could have it's own set of benefits, like religions undoubtedly will. Does anybody know if this will be in the expansion?

10 is Tengriism, a religion in central Asia.
Here's an article on Tengriism with the same image that religion 10 has:
http://gara-tengri.blogspot.com/2010/03/religion-of-turks.html
And here's the wikipedia article on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengriism

I believe the penultimate religious symbol to be Totemism. The symbol used for Totemism is normally of a totem pole with outstretched wings - the civ icon looks like that too. Additionally, it fits alphabetically and gives the American civs a fitting religion!

I'm wrong :sad:.


10 is Tengriism, a religion in central Asia.
Here's an article on Tengriism with the same image that religion 10 has:
http://gara-tengri.blogspot.com/2010/03/religion-of-turks.html
And here's the wikipedia article on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengriism

He's right ;). The link even has the exact same symbol that's going to be in the game.

Then why is it holding a sword?

Well, quite. It would be somewhat absurd for the Pictish warriors not to require iron and not to replace the swordsman when they can quite clearly be seen carrying iron swords. :lol:

Yes, maybe it would be one more civ like Spain, England or Holland but in Civ IV it was actually very well done (historically speaking) with the Nau (a bigger Caravel, actually able to get to India) as the unique unit and the Feitoria (fortified trading post) as the unique building.

Civ4 found a good unique unit and unique building, but that's not what Civ5 requires. Civ5 requires making each civ play differently from every other civ. Think about the Polynesians or Danes. This isn't make one expansive spiritual and the other expansive imperialistic.


Where are new fresh civs? I'm kinda sick that every civ game at the end gets same inca/maya/aztec trio, same colonial powers (spain, dutch, etc...), same mediterranians civs (cartage, byzantines, etc...).

I think you can do a little bit of both. They did add the Polynesians, Siam, and Songhai. I've been advocating for either Indonesia or the Moors as another option. The expansion is the perfect opportunity because they might not sell as well as DLC.

I think you can do a little bit of both. They did add the Polynesians, Siam, and Songhai. I've been advocating for either Indonesia or the Moors as another option. The expansion is the perfect opportunity because they might not sell as well as DLC.

Yeah, you are right.
But as far as expansion content, that is known at the moment, I'm only seeing "recycled" civs. Probably a reason why I started my little rant.

Then why is it holding a sword?

For the same reason the Maori Warrior is holding what appears to be a giant steel cleaver. It's just the artist's rendition.

If you look closely at the Swordsman, it's holding a bronze sword not an iron sword.

If you Google Pictish warrior images, you'll find half of them are holding spears. Some appear to be holding wooden clubs and some swords.

Great news ! I have one confusion. They did mentioned of new civs, military units & CS but not about new techs. Are they not going to overhaul the tech tree & add more complexity to it by adding new techs & interlinks so that beelining is not that strong.

They did say they are adding new techs, they just didn't specify how many.
It will come as no surprise to those of you who are familar with expansion packs for previous Civilization games that Gods & Kings will add more techs, units, buildings, Wonders, and playable Civilizations.

Perhaps the Pictish warrior is an Axeman replacement, though considering what we know about the breadth of new units (focused on air and naval units) it seems unlikely. My guess is that it's an impossible scenario mocked up in the World Builder.

I think the Pictish Warrior is a spearman replacement, and I don't think they scaled the combat strength as linearly as Monthar said. My speculation is that the HP boost is primarily to increase damage "fidelity" (which would still make them last longer, no more 10% minimum damage) and the later units got a larger strength boost to accommodate the WWI era stuff.

Something I've noticed with faith (forgive me if this has been mentioned ;)). There's no target shown for you to reach, like there is with culture and golden ages. It may be that they've just not put it in yet of course, or that the accumilation of faith works in a different way. Maybe it's like currency, allowing you to "save up" and "spend" your faith in a more flexible manner, or perhaps you have to "spend" faith in addition to the other resources to construct religious buildings.

Any thoughts?

For the same reason the Maori Warrior is holding what appears to be a giant steel cleaver. It's just the artist's rendition.

If you look closely at the Swordsman, it's holding a bronze sword not an iron sword.

If you Google Pictish warrior images, you'll find half of them are holding spears. Some appear to be holding wooden clubs and some swords.

The Picts, however, are an iron age civilization and the sword looks very much like this iron sword (http://www.scottishmist.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:jewellery-with-a-history&catid=49:latest&Itemid=60). There is one major flaw in my point of view, though: in the screenshot, the civilization already has the Pictish Warrior, but is still researching iron working....

Yeah, you are right.
But as far as expansion content, that is known at the moment, I'm only seeing "recycled" civs. Probably a reason why I started my little rant.

True, but there's at least one commonly included civ we know is not included.

Could they go with all old civs? While they certainly could just have civs that appeared once before, they won't have all civs that appeared in several games. Even with Dutch, Celts, Carthage, Byzantines, Mayans, and adding Zulu and Sumeria, there would be two more options that could be never before seen (or at least, has never been a reoccurring civ).

True, but there's at least one commonly included civ we know is not included.

Could they go with all old civs? While they certainly could just have civs that appeared once before, they won't have all civs that appeared in several games. Even with Dutch, Celts, Carthage, Byzantines, Mayans, and adding Zulu and Sumeria, there would be two more options that could be never before seen (or at least, has never been a reoccurring civ).

An excellent point.
So there is something to look forward to no matter what.

I have a feeling we will see a few new Civs, and frankly Civ V versions are wildly different than their past versions thanks to UAs.

Again, it doesn't make any sense to replace the Warrior or Spearman with a unit that's identical to the Swordsman, unless you also replace the Swordsman with something else. Which makes even less sense.

What seems to have been missed is that the Iron Working tech has the swordsman icon, when it is clearly seen that the player is the Celts. The Pictish Warrior can't replace the swordsman.

Well, except that these are staged screenshots. It's still a careless mistake to make, so I won't disagree with you, though.

They use FireTuner to make the screenshots, so anything can happen. Hell, there's a chance they might not even be playing as the Celts.

They use FireTuner to make the screenshots, so anything can happen. Hell, there's a chance they might not even be playing as the Celts.

That is true.
If only they released more leader screens.
The 2 they did release are gorgeous, and I'm curious as to how the other 7 leaders will be portrayed.

I'm looking forward to the Byzantine one. Leaving aside my obvious anxiousness about finding out who it is, Byzantine throne rooms are really cool looking.

ETA: Better than even odds they use something that resembles this (http://www.allartclassic.com/pictures_zoom.php?p_number=185&p=&number=con011)

However, Justinian here (http://www.kidspast.com/images/emperor-justinian.jpg) and Alexios (http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Medieval/Bio/AlexiosIGodefroy.jpg) have it pretty good too.

BTW, The_J has uploaded all the high resolution screenshots to the gallery (http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=36).

What is the symbol behind 'Antwerp', the blue-white triangle? (top left behind Christian symbol)
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/47211b5983250e7cd50dc35618e3a685.jpg

Is that in vanilla too?

What is the symbol behind 'Antwerp', the blue-white triangle? (top left behind Christian symbol)
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/47211b5983250e7cd50dc35618e3a685.jpg

Is that in vanilla too?

I'd been wondering about that as well. Do you think it might indicate the type of City-State it was?

What is the symbol behind 'Antwerp', the blue-white triangle? (top left behind Christian symbol)
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/47211b5983250e7cd50dc35618e3a685.jpg

Is that in vanilla too?

I think it's a safe bet to say that's the symbol for a Mercantile CS. It's in the same place as the Cultural/Maritime/Militaristic symbols at present, has a striking similarity to the trade route icon, and would fit Antwerp's historical character as a trading port.

There's been something bugging me about the use of the Pictish warrior in the screenshot given. Given the vast spread of the Celts over Europe, I can't help feeling that it's...well, quite specific. Why not the Celtic warrior or a Celtic name for the warrior? A few possibilities:
01. I'm wrong. The most likely possibility!
02. There's the Celts and the Picts or Britons (led by Boudicca).
03. It's part of a scenario.

I appreciate that Cardiff and Dublin have been seen as (presumably) Celtic cities...if there were the Picts in there as well (which I doubt) or even the Scots, then they could have captured those cities.

End of wild speculation!!

I'd been wondering about that as well. Do you think it might indicate the type of City-State it was?

Maybe a new type of city state? Trade? (along with militaristic/maritime/cultural)

Maybe a new type of city state? Trade? (along with militaristic/maritime/cultural)Mercantile. Already confirmed.

Mercantile. Already confirmed.

Ah, thanks.

I think the Pictish Warrior is a spearman replacement, and I don't think they scaled the combat strength as linearly as Monthar said. My speculation is that the HP boost is primarily to increase damage "fidelity" (which would still make them last longer, no more 10% minimum damage) and the later units got a larger strength boost to accommodate the WWI era stuff.

Three times: "THIS!"

Even more, I've got the impression that people mix up the relation of health increase and the increase of strength. I think, there is *no* direct relation between both!

First of all, we don't have any indication that increasing the unit's strength will be linear - even more - it wouldn't be reasonable neither. (The "11-strength-Pict Warrior" even may indicate an other "stretching formula".)

- A unequal stretched strength range will allow WWI units to fit in, just as Scarpa mentioned.

- Secondly, this will allow less wired battle outcomes, if early and modern units fight each other, as damage can be more gradual now. (*This* goes hand in hand with the new 100 HP after all.)

But this is *not related* to the mentioned "longer lasting battles"!

- Damage is not dealt by sheer strength, but by the comparison of the attacker's and defender's strength. So, you even could have a strength 500 unit - as long as it fights against their exact counterpart, it will just deal (recently) 50% of the max health damage.

- To grant longer battles, all you have to do is to reformulate the "damage math".
Recently, two units equal in strength will do 5 HP of damage to each other (so, 50% of their max. health points). To make battles longer, you may just lower the max. damage percentage to 30% or 40% (or whatever you might think as adequate).

- Again, the 100 HP just will grant the possibility for more accurate results. Not more and not less!

There's been something bugging me about the use of the Pictish warrior in the screenshot given. Given the vast spread of the Celts over Europe, I can't help feeling that it's...well, quite specific. [...]

The Maori Warrior or the Cossaks are also quite specific, so I'd not read anything into that.
Depending on the time frame, it might also be a part of the medieval scenario.

Hey guys
I think I they also have the Leaning Tower of Pisa wonder since at the bottom of the espionage overview pic they show the city of Orleans where there is a cylindrical type building above the city bar which looks a lot like the Pisa tower.

Hey guys
I think I they also have the Leaning Tower of Pisa wonder since at the bottom of the espionage overview pic they show the city of Orleans where there is a cylindrical type building above the city bar which looks a lot like the Pisa tower.

Good spot! It doesn't look like anything else in the game so far, and you're right, it looks a hell of a lot like the Leaning Tower...

Good spot! It doesn't look like anything else in the game so far, and you're right, it looks a hell of a lot like the Leaning Tower...Except that it isn't really leaning :p
But apart from that, indeed!

Yeah, it would be nice if it leaned more wouldn't it?

Alternatively, if it stood straight when you built it, but slowly leaned over several turns :p

Still, I can't think of anything else it could be.

And also, besides the Mayan, Celts, Dutch, Carthaginian and Byzantines the other four civs in the expansion pack could be:

Ethiopia
Holy Rome
Sumeria
Zulu

since I think there are bringing the same 34 civs from civ 4 to civ 5 except they replaced:

the Native Americans with the Iroquois
Portugal with Polynesia
Khmer with Siam
Mali with Songhai

Hey guys
I think I they also have the Leaning Tower of Pisa wonder since at the bottom of the espionage overview pic they show the city of Orleans where there is a cylindrical type building above the city bar which looks a lot like the Pisa tower.

Nice one! It does have a lean, I think it's the perspective making it look otherwise. For those that haven't seen it, it's directly to the left of the Worker icon in Orleans

I know that this is *not* a game relevant change - but did anybody notice the change in UI design? (Not the functionality, of course, but the appearance?)

It is way more "flowery" and playful now in comparison to the original design. Maybe a little bit more into the Art Deco-style that was intended right from the beginning. But then, Art Deco may have very clear lines, too. (But I'm definitely no expert here!)

I think the style you're looking for is baroque? :)

Yes, you are definitely right, the flower ornaments are way more into the baroque style than Art Deco! Art Deco usually is a little bit "lighter" and more gracile. That's a little bit irritating, as the ornaments are just added to the already existing frames - which leads to some sort of style mix.

But then, it's not the most important issue after all...

The baroque scrollwork is nice, but I'm not sure it goes that well with the rest of the borders which are still very art deco.

Hmm. I hadn't even noticed the Baroque decorations up until this point.

Having noticed it, I don't actually have a problem with it, although it does look very weird at the top of the Espionage window.

I've seen the Carthagnians mentioned twice in this thread now. Where is the evidence for their inclusion?

EDIT:
Also, on the world map in the espionage window picture, three foreign cities, presumably the capitals in England, Spain and Babylon seems to be visible even though they haven't been explored yet (well, the english and babylonians have a greater visible radius surrounding two cities, whilst egypts city is completely detatched from anything else visible on the map)
Could this be an effect of a Wonder or a Technology, perhaps?

German article.

I found it in a Swedish article, but they gave no source :<
And on gameinformer :0

EDIT:
Also, on the world map in the espionage window picture, three foreign cities, presumably the capitals in England, Spain and Babylon seems to be visible even though they haven't been explored yet (well, the english and babylonians have a greater visible radius surrounding two cities, whilst egypts city is completely detatched from anything else visible on the map)
Could this be an effect of a Wonder or a Technology, perhaps?Could be. Or espionage or even religion?

Also, on the world map in the espionage window picture, three foreign cities, presumably the capitals in England, Spain and Babylon seems to be visible even though they haven't been explored yet (well, the english and babylonians have a greater visible radius surrounding two cities, whilst egypts city is completely detatched from anything else visible on the map)
Could this be an effect of a Wonder or a Technology, perhaps?

I think it's the result of successfully 'Establishing surveillance' in a city. Note the 'View' button available on the agent panel, perhaps something the spy does enables that and gives you the equivalent of a puppet city view where you can see all the buildings, what's being worked and 3-rings of tiles.

Hey guys
I think I they also have the Leaning Tower of Pisa wonder since at the bottom of the espionage overview pic they show the city of Orleans where there is a cylindrical type building above the city bar which looks a lot like the Pisa tower.

Maybe it's the Tower of Babel?

I've seen the Carthagnians mentioned twice in this thread now. Where is the evidence for their inclusion?

They were mentioned in the original Take-Two announcement, not sure why they've not been mentioned when it was announced on the Take-Two forums.

Here's a link to the announcement. (http://ir.take2games.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=86428&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1661858)

dozens of new units, buildings, technologies and resources have also been added

First we've heard of resources as well

This may just refer to "faith" as "religious resource".

resources, plural.

Bananas would be nice, and more modern resources so that people don't just end up with a crapload of aluminium and uranium.

Food resources would be great, add some complexity to city growth. Assuming, that is, that the food resources are functionally different, and not just a flat +1 food across the board.

They need a medieval-rennaisance Strategic IMO, maybe Saltpetre for early Gunpowder units?

First we've heard of resources as wellIndeed, indeed. Very nice.
Funny how the official press release and the announcement on the 2K site are very similar but slightly different.

Pretty sure bananas are in already. The provide extra food to the city in range after improvement. It's a bonus resource as it usually is in most Civ games. As for resources, could it be that there will be a new class of resources that all generate faith?

Pretty sure bananas are in already. The provide extra food to the city in range after improvement.Plus extra food with granary.

resources, plural.

Or maybe just an exaggeration (based on lack of knowledge or the will to make the sentence sound better? "dozens of new units, buildings, technologies and one resource have also been added" sounds a bit lame, isn't it?)

So, I wouldn't bet my grandma on multiple resources. But - of course - I don't know better for obvious reasons and I'll keep my grandma save, too. ;)

Lightning bolt symbol prolly represents paganism or Greco-Roman religion

I agree that seems the most logical explanation. The screenshot is of Celts founding of a religion, but we can see that what is now becoming Christianity already has a Pantheon Belief (Religious Idols), so it was a Pantheon before. Dublin is pretty clearly a city under the Celtic player's control, and it has a lighting bolt icon where the religion icon would be. So it seems very logical that the lightning bolt is a symbol for a Pantheon that hasn't become a full-blown Religion yet.

So it seems that during the Pantheon phase your animist/pagan thing isn't a formal religion yet, and you don't get the name and icon until you generate your first Great Prophet. This gibes with the info from the ComputerBild German translated preview.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/civ/images/gak_dublin.gif

What if one of those new resources is a return of copper? Then one of the new units could be the return of the Axeman at bronze working. It could also be required for early melee naval units, such as reinforcing the bow of a trireme so it can do more damage when ramming.

It could even mean new there are several new resources for boosting faith. Such as Holy Water, Rosewood for various religious symbols/totems.

They may even be adding things like tobacco and coffee as luxuries.

What if one of those new resources is a return of copper? Then one of the new units could be the return of the Axeman at bronze working. It could also be required for early melee naval units, such as reinforcing the bow of a trireme so it can do more damage when ramming.

It could even mean new there are several new resources for boosting faith. Such as Holy Water, Rosewood for various religious symbols/totems.

They may even be adding things like tobacco and coffee as luxuries.

Didn't we hear somewhere that Mercantile City States can provide luxuries you can't find anywhere else?

Yeah, I was just going to point that out.

I really think Pictish Warrior is UU replacement for Pikeman. I mean, I've researched Civil Service before Iron Working many times.

Regarding the Pictish Warrior, I can't help but feel people are overriding common sense based on possibly dodgy information.

While it's true that in the picture, iron working hasn't been researched yet, it' also quite probable that the picture was made in some sort of worldbuilder, and the devs can spawn anything they like for the purposes of demonstration. Given that the Celts are shown to have a green colour scheme in the Machine Gun picture, yet the Pictish warriors here are blue, it's quite possible the Picitsh Warrior in that picture doesn't belong to the Celts at all, but the picture is entirely staged.

I simply think that it doesn't make sense for the Pictish Warrior not to replace the Swordsman, not simply because it is quite clearly carrying a sword and shield, but because it has the same stats (unless they're changing the stats, of course). What is the point of making a Spearman or Pikeman replacement that acts like an ironless Swordsman? Not only does it make the bonus vs mounted units nonsensical, it makes building regular swords utterly useless.

If they wanted to give the Celts a sword that didn't need iron (which I would be baffled as to why they would anyway), they could just go the Mohawk route and make it a unique Swordsman that simply doesn't need iron.

It could simply be a unit from the Fall of Rome scenario (?)

It could simply be a unit from the Fall of Rome scenario (?)

This is what I thought.
A scenario unit of some sort seems likely.
However, the Machine Gun also seems too powerful, leading me to think all unit combat strengths have been raised proportionally.

This is what I thought.
A scenario unit of some sort seems likely.
However, the Machine Gun also seems too powerful, leading me to think all unit combat strengths have been raised proportionally.

I thought this was confirmed already that the damage formulas had been changed significantly and that health had also been increased by a factor of ten to accomodate the change in values?

I'm possibly wrong or have misread something somewhere along the line, but even were it not confirmed it would make logical sense to do so given how much health is increasing by.

I thought this was confirmed already that the damage formulas had been changed significantly and that health had also been increased by a factor of ten to accomodate the change in values?

I'm possibly wrong or have misread something somewhere along the line, but even were it not confirmed it would make logical sense to do so given how much health is increasing by.

But health is increasing proportionally. i.e. a unit that would normally do 1 damage now does 10.
But I think I see what you are saying, and I agree.
If they changed everything else, I'm sure they would boost combat strength altogether.

But health is increasing proportionally. i.e. a unit that would normally do 1 damage now does 10.
But I think I see what you are saying, and I agree.
If they changed everything else, I'm sure they would boost combat strength altogether.

Ultimately I think the theorycrafting while nice is a little unnecessary at this stage. We don't have enough of the required info to say what the developers intentions are with some of these changes. It is entirely possible that health will become a scaling stat (ie 10 in the ancient era, through 100 in the industrial era).

Again, I am likely wrong but until we get more info, it is safe to assume that damage calculations will also change with the vast increase in health.

I really think Pictish Warrior is UU replacement for Pikeman. I mean, I've researched Civil Service before Iron Working many times.

That's not a bad theory. When I think of the Picts, I think late Roman Empire, early Middle Ages. I wonder if an 11 attack Pikeman instead of a 10 attack Pikeman would be all that useful, though. There's also the problem that it has a sword, when I would expect a Pikeman replacement to actually have a Pike.

It also has two 'Yellow triangle promotions' which could be additional benefits for the Pictish Warrior

I thought this was confirmed already that the damage formulas had been changed significantly and that health had also been increased by a factor of ten to accomodate the change in values?

I'm possibly wrong or have misread something somewhere along the line, but even were it not confirmed it would make logical sense to do so given how much health is increasing by.
Damage done is based on the ratio of one units combat strength compared to the others. For example, multiplying the combat strength by 10 times for both units would have absolutely no effect on a battle between them.

But health is increasing proportionally. i.e. a unit that would normally do 1 damage now does 10.
But I think I see what you are saying, and I agree.
If they changed everything else, I'm sure they would boost combat strength altogether.
Not quite true either though, units will do more HP damage in every attack to compensate, but they also said they wanted units to survive longer, so it won't be 10 times more damage.

Not quite true either though, units will do more HP damage in every attack to compensate, but they also said they wanted units to survive longer, so it won't be 10 times more damage.

Did they say that?
Then I take back what I said.

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/47211b5983250e7cd50dc35618e3a685.jpg

Anybody noticed the amount of Culture per turn France is getting with only 4 cities?

Doesn't seem too out of line considering what turn it is, you can see multiple landmarks in both screenshots as well and having the Freedom finisher by that point isnt too crazy.

Doesn't seem too out of line considering what turn it is, you can see multiple landmarks in both screenshots as well and having the Freedom finisher by that point isnt too crazy.

I agree with that.

I agree with that.

True, I don't think I ever seen that much culture for a Cultural win (which I presume this person was going for obviously)

I also think the 3 beakers icon is in fact a Reasearch Agreement, not only is the UN way in the future at this point, but I don't recall there even being a resolution that was connected to Research even in Civ 4.

True, I don't think I ever seen that much culture for a Cultural win (which I presume this person was going for obviously)

I also think the 3 beakers icon is in fact a Reasearch Agreement, not only is the UN way in the future at this point, but I don't recall there even being a resolution that was connected to Research even in Civ 4.

It may be a new icon for a completed research agreement, yes.
I've gotten up to 800 culture with 4 cities (I still didn't win that early :( ) and better players can probably do better than that.

314 culture at turn 265 is pretty low for a standard culture game. One should easily be in the 450-650 range by then, if culture is the focus.

I don't think you can draw any conclusion of a screenshot created for promotion, it's not actually from a game I guess but they set it up that way.

Plus that was pretty late game, 1980 something. Around that time almost every civ has above 100 at the very least, and since it's France, it's almost inevitable they had such a high number.

I don't recognize the icon for whatever Dublin is building in the religion picture. New building?

Is it a circus?

It's a circus

It's a circus
bummer. i was hoping for a UB.

I actually would like to point out that Pictish Warrior is not a replacement for Swordsman, there is no doubt in my mind that the screenshot depicting Religion screen shows Iron Working and obviously a Swordsman, along that, the player is infact playing as Boudica because he's controling the unit with the Celtic color scheme, so the Pictish Unit is not a Swordsman replacement, not sure if we established that earlier and I'm just rambling.

Hmm...
Just noticed something: why do the city states have their influence bars split up?

Hmm...
Just noticed something: why do the city states have their influence bars split up?

I think it has something to do with the improved diplomacy with CS or something, I think it reflects better your status with them.

But probably not as simple as war/neutral/friend/allied, as a bar like this would fill naturally from left to right!

What we can see instead, are four separate slots, were only the two at the right side are "active".

Hmm...
Just noticed something: why do the city states have their influence bars split up?

It is split into 4 quarters, which most likely will correlate to the status. 2 blue bars at the right means allies. 1 blue bar at the right means friends. 1 red bar at the left means war, and 2 left red bars means permanent war. But it is still speculating about the details.

314 culture at turn 265 is pretty low for a standard culture game. One should easily be in the 450-650 range by then, if culture is the focus.

Screenshots are generated through FireTuner, not through actual gameplay. They are deliberately showing you only what they want you to see. Everything in the image has been carefully planned out.

As for the culture? They could probably care less about that because we know about it already.

Hmm...
Just noticed something: why do the city states have their influence bars split up?

Good observation. It seems that CS diplomacy is more complex. However, I do agree with people that a friendly v. unfriendly indicator is likely. They're allied with Antwerp, which is why only the right half is maxed out but the left isn't touched. But I don't know the specifics (aside from the fact that gold has been downplayed as a method to ally with them).

We know:

- money still plays a role in CS diplomacy, but...
- fulfilling missions for CSs is more important now.
- We know that there will be multiple missions at once.

My guess:

- Maybe there are maximal 3 missions "active".
- If you fullfill one, this mission will shown as "accomplished" in one of the slots. The influence you gain out of fulfilled missions will decay over time. If it reaches zero, a new mission is generated.
- The 4th slot may be filled by monetary gifts.

Maybe this idea is a little bit complicated, but at least it would explain the 4 separate slots. Anyway I'm pretty sure, these slots are *not only* a new presentation of the already known influence mechanism.

With the 4 piece bar there is that small round dot on the right of it, maybe it fills from right to left.
-or-
It is really 2 bars,
... the right side is research
... the left side is growth

Ok, I don't believe research, growth ...
... but it is 2 bars w/dot on right side
... maybe faith, espionage
-nah-
... that has to just be -/+ influence bar (fills left or right from center)
... blue on friendly w/blue dot ALLY 8)
... red on unfriendly w/red dot WAR!

I actually would like to point out that Pictish Warrior is not a replacement for Swordsman, there is no doubt in my mind that the screenshot depicting Religion screen shows Iron Working and obviously a Swordsman, along that, the player is infact playing as Boudica because he's controling the unit with the Celtic color scheme, so the Pictish Unit is not a Swordsman replacement, not sure if we established that earlier and I'm just rambling.

Reading this post made me think...what if the Pictish Warrior is a warrior replacement? Since the Machine Gun has 60 strength, it is not inconceivable that a regular warrior now has 10 (with the Pictish Warrior's bonus being one more strength) or even 11 strength (in which case, the Pictish Warrior has some other bonuses (the two yellow triangles?)).

There is absolutely no evidence right now to support this pervasive theory that the combat values have been increased. The Machine Gun value of 60 doesn't mean anything by itself; we don't know what modifiers it has against various unit types (or what modifiers various unit types have against it), or what special rules it has to obey. An Infantry strength of 36 does not seem unreasonable against a Machine Gun strength of 60... WWI infantry charges against machine guns were complete suicide. And consider that there may now be two Industrial infantry units... the old WWI version and what appears to be a new WWII version.

I'm not saying that the values haven't increased -- anything is possible -- but at this point it's pure speculation. I don't see the point of increasing the health values if you're also going to increase the strength values.

Increasing all units' strength values by the same proportion would have no effect as it's the ratio of strength values that determines combat damage. However they may have increased some late game units' strength values if they've added in an extra tier of WW1-era units. It is therefore plausible that Infantry now have a higher strength value, but I see no reason why Warriors would have been changed.

However they may have increased some late game units' strength values if they've added in an extra tier of WW1-era units. It is therefore plausible that Infantry now have a higher strength value, but I see no reason why Warriors would have been changed. They certainly may have done so; I'm just saying that right now there's no direct evidence of that.

They certainly may have done so; I'm just saying that right now there's no direct evidence of that.

I agree. I think it's a good assumption, however, because otherwise why monkey with hitpoints if there won't a be a rebalance to strength and defense.

We know they're adding 27 units and 9 civs. So 9 of those are most likely UUs for the new civs. The Pictish Warrior is most likely one of those UUs. We also know there are at least 2 new great people, the Great Prophet and Great Admiral. We also know there's a new early tank, triplane, biplane and machine gun. So that's 15 of the 27 new units, leaving 12 more. If there is 1 new naval melee unit for each era, that's 6 new naval units, leaving another 6 units. If the Machine Gun is in the upgrade path for the Archer and Crossbow, there's likely a Renaissance unit, such as Civ 4's Grenadier between the Crossbow and Machine Gun, leaving another 5 units.

Those last 5 units could be anything such as a 2nd UU for up to 5 of the 9 civs, a Great Spy, special units for the new scenarios, or just regular units added throughout the ages. If they are regular units then it stands to reason that the combat strengths of all units would be increased up to 2x the current to provide better gaps for those remaining units to fill, which would explain both the Pictish Warrior's strength while researching iron working and the machine gun, an industrial era unit, having strength between the mech infantry and modern armor, which are both modern era units.

This also indicates that we most likely will not have units for spreading religion like we did in Civ 4, because we'd need 11 units to spread all 11 religions, because they'd have to add at least 33 new units not just 27.

You're lining up an awful lot of "ifs" in a row there.

This also indicates that we most likely will not have units for spreading religion like we did in Civ 4, because we'd need 11 units to spread all 11 religions, because they'd have to add at least 33 new units not just 27.
You don't need 11 different religion-specific missionary units, but rather just 1 generic one. Especially since missionaries now appear to be tied to a specific Belief (Holy Order: Allows the purchase of Missionaries to help spread your Religion), in which case only one religion can have missionaries anyway (because Beliefs are unique).

Unless they're not counted under the new units

Even if we only need 1 generic one, that still leaves at least 4 units unaccounted for. Of course, we might not get new naval units, but instead see some of the current naval units converted to melee, which would free up another 6 units, so I guess it is possible that 11 of the units are missionaries for each of the 11 religions.

I don't see the point of having 11 diffrent missionaries for all the religion, it's unneccessary.

You're lining up an awful lot of "ifs" in a row there.


You don't need 11 different religion-specific missionary units, but rather just 1 generic one. Especially since missionaries now appear to be tied to a specific Belief (Holy Order: Allows the purchase of Missionaries to help spread your Religion), in which case only one religion can have missionaries anyway (because Beliefs are unique).

From use of the word 'buy' in the Kotau article it can be inferred that purchasing missionaries is not usually possible but that they can be built and that the Holy Orders belief allows the purchasing of them.
Alternatively, assuming that a belief is required before you can acquire missionaries at all, no where has it been said that the effects of one belief aren't duplicated by a belief in the other pool. It is conceivable that Holy Orders is a pantheon belief and that there is a world religion belief that allows you to acquire missionaries in addition to another benefit (as world religion beliefs are supposed to be more powerful).

Even if we only need 1 generic one, that still leaves at least 4 units unaccounted for. Of course, we might not get new naval units, but instead see some of the current naval units converted to melee, which would free up another 6 units, so I guess it is possible that 11 of the units are missionaries for each of the 11 religions.

In my opinion, stating that you're adding 27 new units and 11 of these are (boring) missionaries is a bad marketing move.

I think it just fits, though (9 UUs, 11 Missionaries, Great Prophet, Great Admiral, Machinegun, Biplane Fighter, Biplane Bomber, Land Ship, Partridge in a Pear Tree).

I think it just fits, though (9 UUs, 11 Missionaries, Great Prophet, Great Admiral, Machinegun, Biplane Fighter, Biplane Bomber, Land Ship, Partridge in a Pear Tree).

Many civs have 2 UU's though.

Yeah, but there are none confirmed yet.

I don't think there are 11 missionary units. You have a better shot of them counting scenario units instead.

I know that missionaries were used in Civ 4, but will they definitely be used in Civ 5? I was under the impression that religion had been reworked.

Just thinking though... missionaries aren't priests, they're missionaries. So a generic unit might suit

Just thinking about the Great Admiral.

One would assume that it works like the Great General, in that you generate it by participating in naval combat and that it provides some benefit to its adjacent units.

I wonder what sort of tile improvement it can build and if it is on land or ocean tiles.

It also makes me think that some civilization might get Great Admirals worked into its UA. The Dutch, for instance, but would any other yet unnamed civs lend themselves towards it? The Portugese perhaps? If they rework some of the old civs' UAs, perhaps England would get a bonus to generating Great Admirals. or maybe a special version of the Great Admiral.

Or maybe the Great Admiral is a new civ's UU, a version of the Great General.

Would any new UU generate double points towards a Great Admiral?

It's a rather interesting subject to my mind.

To have any idea if it's 1 generic missionary or 1 for each religion, we'd have to know if it's possible to found more than 1 religion. If each civ is only allowed to found 1 religion, then a single generic missionary will suffice. However, if we are allowed to found more than 1 religion, which of them will that generic missionary spread?

If it is just the 1 generic missionary and we're only allowed to found 1 religion, that still leaves 10 units unaccounted for. I'd bet no more than 4 or 5 of the Civs will have a 2nd UU, so that would still leave 5-6 of them unaccounted for.

Do we know for sure the Great Admiral is a new unit and not just a GG that works for both land and sea?

Just thinking about the Great Admiral.

One would assume that it works like the Great General, in that you generate it by participating in naval combat and that it provides some benefit to its adjacent units.

That's what I would think. Some Commerce tree policies might trigger it too. It would be nice if they could stack, unlike other naval units.

I wonder what sort of tile improvement it can build and if it is on land or ocean tiles.

A coastal fortress would make a lot of sense. It would be a land improvement in that case, though.

It also makes me think that some civilization might get Great Admirals worked into its UA. The Dutch, for instance, but would any other yet unnamed civs lend themselves towards it? The Portugese perhaps? If they rework some of the old civs' UAs, perhaps England would get a bonus to generating Great Admirals. or maybe a special version of the Great Admiral.

Or maybe the Great Admiral is a new civ's UU, a version of the Great General.

I'd like them to give it to the English to improve them. Perhaps the Dutch. Either way, it wouldn't be a UU since all their slots seem to be spoken for. The Portuguese aren't in the game, so it won't be them.

Wasn't it in the Civ4-BtS expansion, where they advertised each corporation representative as new unit? So, all of a sudden, 6 new units were generated "out of the air" (instead of just one).

So, counting more or less the same unit several times is not without precedent. Nevertheless, I hope this will not be the case here.

(Maybe this didn't happen with corporation representatives, but with all these missionaries and temples in Civ 4. But I'm pretty sure that I *was* a little bit pissed off, when I realized how to interpret the high numbers written on the box...)

England would make the most sense for that bonus...but I think they are already getting a nice boost by ships being able to conquer cities. Giving them an admiral bonus might be a little much considering they already have the best navy of any civ.

either way I'm excited to play as England. more important navy + espionage = much better immersion for the brits.

Antwerp symbols look indeed like:
- Cross - Religion, Christianism
- "Triangle" - City state type - if you look at it it is the same symbol of a town being linked to your commercial network by roads/docks - guess that will make Antwerp a commercial city state (fits well).

The bar below looks indeed tweaked: now it has 4 sectors - guess it will mean two "friendly" levels and two unfriendly ones..

So maybe I am missing something... but are the new religions going to be usable is some offensive way?

I mean it seems like it is simply more of
1) collect resource A
2) spend on benefit B

We already have
Collect beakers -> gain tech
Collect culture -> gain policies
Somehow "Collect faith -> gain beliefs" does not seem very different to me.

I would not be surprised if I was missing something though.

So maybe I am missing something... but are the new religions going to be usable is some offensive way?

I mean it seems like it is simply more of
1) collect resource A
2) spend on benefit B

We already have
Collect beakers -> gain tech
Collect culture -> gain policies
Somehow "Collect faith -> gain beliefs" does not seem very different to me.

I would not be surprised if I was missing something though.

Much in the same vein that some policies (whole trees even) can be used to make your civ more effective at warfare, it seems that some beliefs can too. Also, it's been said that you can buy units with faith; units that are otherwise unavailable. Maybe that's missionaries, maybe that's crusaders, or maybe that's jihadists. Who knows?

Ah... this review http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/121/1218810p1.html
seemed to indicate some other ways beliefs are useful if you have spread your religion to others.
That bit is nice.

Ah... this review http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/121/1218810p1.html
seemed to indicate some other ways beliefs are useful if you have spread your religion to others.
That bit is nice.

Yeah, you get to choose what you spend it on. Do you buy military units with it? Or economic beliefs? Or maybe militaristic or science beliefs? Maybe there'll even be some economy units to buy.

No atheism? I hope it will be available as a Renaissance-based tech or culture trait at least. Rationalism as it is now wont be enough, unless Piety tree will be removed completely.

WERE there any atheist civilizations?

WERE there any atheist civilizations?

Well, wasn't USSR an "athiest" nation at one point?

Modern nations can be secular or atheist, but it doesn't make sense to build the entire game around.

I'd also point out that even officially atheist nations aren't really atheist. Even the Soviet Union had a back and forth relationship with the Orthodox church rather than straight oppression.

Well, wasn't USSR an "athiest" nation at one point?
Yes, this applied to pretty much all the communist nations. But I would agree with Louis that the atheism was in official name only; the religions didn't go away.

I was contemplating about whether they would put atheistic Beliefs into the religion system. There are non-supernatural philosophies that can be used as such. Humanism, for instance. Darwinism could be included as a pro-science Belief. There could be Beliefs that could go with a theistic or athiestic religion. Maybe something that allows monestaries to give science or a Belief that gives a cost discount to universities and public schools. Gregor Mendel was a monk, after all, and many universities were founded to teach theology.

Case in point: as I understand it, Confuciansim is a philosophy, and not really a religion.

I was contemplating about whether they would put atheistic Beliefs into the religion system. There are non-supernatural philosophies that can be used as such. Humanism, for instance. Darwinism could be included as a pro-science Belief. There could be Beliefs that could go with a theistic or athiestic religion. Maybe something that allows monestaries to give science or a Belief that gives a cost discount to universities and public schools. Gregor Mendel was a monk, after all, and many universities were founded to teach theology.

Well that's confusing proscience beliefs (in game) with atheistic beliefs.

If you want to play an "atheistic" civ you can go with one of two approaches

1. Make your own religion and rename it (name it Atheism if you like) and choose beliefs that you feel fit

2. Go 'secular'... Never adopt a State religion [if that is an option]. Don't use Piety/build religious buildings. Ue al your "faith" for non religious things (as well as all your hammers and gold).

It might be even more possible now.. possibly you can go up the cultural buildings without building Temples and Monasteries.

Right. What I was proposing would give you the capacity to make an atheistic "religion", thereby giving you the benefits of the Religion System without having to dedicate yourself to a deity. Which is pretty much your item 1.

Yes, this applied to pretty much all the communist nations. But I would agree with Louis that the atheism was in official name only; the religions didn't go away.

To say a nation's official stance is atheist is misleading. USSR was full of Christians and Jews. The religion shapes the culture of the people, and influenced those in power (for better or worse).

I honestly can't think of one example of a civilization that does not have a religion.